Military Review

Greek project as an attempt by Russia to crush the Ottoman Empire

20
Black Tuesday 29 May 1453 of the year was the last Tuesday in the millennial stories Byzantine Empire. Intoxicated by the sensation of a long-awaited victory, enraged by the blood of many of their many comrades killed, the troops of Sultan Mehmed II broke into Constantinople.


Greek project as an attempt by Russia to crush the Ottoman Empire

The final assault and the fall of Constantinople in 1453. Fragment of a diorama from the Istanbul Military Museum


It was already difficult to name the empire perishing under the Turkish scribes. The once great power, whose possessions included the lands of Europe, Asia and Africa, by the middle of the XV century had become scraps barely visible on the map, the largest of which was semi-independent of Constantinople Morea. The huge city, although it had lost its dazzling majesty, went to the triumphant winners.

Possessions of the Ottoman Turks are now a solid block, stretching from the Balkans to the Persian Gulf. The new empire did not want to stop there - its expansion continued. However, even when the Turkish scythe was blunted and the onslaught of onslaught was replaced by dyspneal dyspnea, the sultans continued to firmly hold their hand on the pulse of the Black Sea straits, and the crescent banner flew over the ancient walls of Constantinople.

The Ottoman Empire had many opponents. Some were inclined to the will of the winners and disappeared from the maps, others tried to live with the conquerors in a kind of symbiosis, to sooner or later share the fate of the first. There was a third kind of opponents: more or less strong states capable of fighting the Ottoman Empire on an equal footing. This confrontation, accompanied by a series of wars with intermittent victories and defeats, lasted for more than one century, until the Ottoman Porta finally abandoned its expansion into Europe.

Far to the north of the hot Mediterranean was Muscovy, which, declaring itself the successor of the fallen Byzantium, has not yet come into contact with the Turks on any front other than the diplomatic one. Muscovy, as this country was called in Europe, had many enemies of its own and problems, and the khanate located in Crimea, a faithful ally and a vassal of Istanbul, regularly terrorized its southern borders. Two large state formations, the Russian state and the Ottoman Port, coexisted for a long time without military incidents among themselves.

The situation began to heat up in the second half of the XVI century, when Ivan IV, nicknamed the Terrible, subordinated and introduced the Kazan, and then the Astrakhan Khanate, into their lands. Thus, a large number of Muslims were added to the population of the Russian state. The Turkish Sultan considered himself to be the defender of all the faithful and considered this situation unacceptable.

The first armed clash between the two countries was the fight for Astrakhan in 1568 – 1570. Subsequently, the Russian-Turkish conflicts began to occur regularly, especially since the end of the XVII century.

Peter I set two geopolitical goals at once: access to the Baltic Sea and gaining access to the Black Sea. The second task, the solution of which was initiated by the initially successful Azov campaign, was practically nullified by the Prut peace treaty. The second serious military confrontation with Turkey in the 18th century occurred in the reign of Anna Ioannovna and ended with an openly intermediate Belgrade world.

By the middle of the century of enlightened absolutism, Russia was still far not only from hoisting a cross on Hagia Sophia, but also from access to the Black Sea. The young empress Catherine II had to solve many problems of domestic and foreign policy, and one of the most important was the southern direction. The Black Sea was actually a Turkish lake, and in the Crimea there was still an extremely hostile khanate.

The origin of the project

The idea of ​​recreating the fallen Byzantine Empire in one form or another was not at all new. The first thoughts on this matter originated in the minds of European politicians soon after the fall of Constantinople. In 1459, Pope Pius II convened a council in Mantua, whose goal was to discuss the organization of a crusade against the Turks in order to restore Byzantium. Do not be mistaken about the likely success: at best, a puppet state would be created, completely dependent on the West, under the rule of Catholicism.

However, at that time, plans like the idea of ​​the Crusades did not enjoy particular popularity among the European nobility, and the process did not advance further conversations and expressions of sympathy. In the second half of the 16th century, the idea of ​​Moscow as the Third Rome originated and took shape in the Moscow Principality, which was gaining strength and influence, according to which Moscow is the direct spiritual and state heir of the Byzantine Empire. The authorship of this idea is attributed to both Metropolitan Zosima and Hegumen Filofey.


The grand duke's seal, presumably 1497 year


At the official level, succession was secured by the marriage of Ivan III with the niece of the last Byzantine emperor, Sophia Paleolog. The coat of arms of Palaeologov was chosen as the official state coat of arms of the Russian state. The theory of "Moscow - Third Rome" until the beginning of regular wars with the Ottoman Empire at the end of the XVII century did not go beyond the framework of a set of arguments mainly of a church-religious nature. Later, with the desire to achieve lasting control over the Black Sea, the idea of ​​liberating Constantinople from the Turks gradually leaned against this theory.

1760-s. characterized in Russian foreign policy as the period of the Northern Chord, a kind of system developed and inspired by the head of the diplomatic department, Count Nikita Ivanovich Panin. According to this system, Russia should have been in alliance with the monarchies of northern Europe: Prussia, Sweden, the Commonwealth - in opposition to the emerging rapprochement between France and Austria. It should be noted that, apart from the actual Russian support of this rather loose alliance, its mechanism was heavily smeared with English gold. London competed tirelessly with Paris in the leadership in European cuisine.

The gears of Count Panin’s system with sin were evenly twisted in half until the outbreak of the Russo-Turkish war of 1768–1774. Then it suddenly became clear that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is not only the weakest link in this far from the most durable alliance, but also that has a manner of falling into a desperate rampage. In addition, the emergence of a strong Russian fleet enlightened sailors didn’t really like the Mediterranean Sea, who suddenly realized that they were spending a little gold there. The outbreak of war with Turkey brought Russia and Austria closer together, moreover, both yards had somewhat similar views on the Polish problem.

Britain has always been able to skillfully tack under the currents of changeable political wind and dexterously imbued with deep concern about the fate of Turkey. Ottoman Porta grew increasingly dull, decrepit and poor, despite the apparent monumentality. This monumentality was already generously gnawed from the inside. However, now the British gold smoothly flowed to the shores of the Golden Horn Bay.

Still, British diplomacy did not lose hope of keeping Russia in the wake of a favorable policy. During the years of the war for the independence of the United States of America, London first asked to send Russian troops to the rebel colonies, promising to generously pay for their maintenance. Having been refused, London began to look for ways to soften Catherine II’s position on Armed Neutralityby offering as a fee the island of Menorca. However, the empress was adamant. In Russian diplomacy, the direction of trends changed.

The Kyuchuk-Kaynardzhi peace treaty was nothing more than another truce, simply having much more favorable conditions than the previous ones. The empire turned its strength, generously spending resources not only on the costly Archipelago expedition and the large land army, but also on suppressing the widely spread Pugachev rebellion. The problem of the Black Sea straits remained unresolved. It was also necessary to resolve the situation of the neighborhood with the restless Crimean Khanate.


Catherine II. Portrait by F. S. Rokotov, 1763


Catherine II believed that in order for the next war with the Ottoman Porto to end with an even more convincing result, Russia needed an ally — strong enough, which was Austria at that time. In order to attract a cunning and practical Vienna to the union against the Turks, a very tasty and appetizing gingerbread was needed. The role of such a “carrot” could fulfill the plan of division of territories jointly repulsed off the Ottoman Ports. After all, Austria was a much older enemy of the Turks. With appropriate hints and signals, Catherine II was able to stir up the curiosity of the Vienna court, that he himself began to seek rapprochement even with greater enthusiasm.

In 1779, between Austria and Prussia, the sluggish war ceased, having received the name “potato” in history. The Teshensky peace treaty was signed, the guarantor of which was Russia. Austria sought hegemony among a huge conglomerate of German states and principalities, strengthening its role in the fate of the agonizing Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and, of course, changing the situation in its favor in the Balkans. Without the support of Russia, these ambitious plans were hard to implement.

Austrian mercenary enthusiasm was received with approval in St. Petersburg. All the more so since they were carrying out their own, far more far-reaching plans. Approximately in 1779, Ekaterina and her favorite Grigory Potemkin originated and formed an idea, which later became known as the “Greek project”. Its essence was reduced to a large-scale reformatting of the Ottoman Empire. According to this plan, the Turks should have been driven out to Asia, to the lands, from where they came.

In the still vast European territories of Porta, where the Christian population was largely dominant, two formally independent states should be formed: Dacia and the Greek Empire. The structure of Dacia was supposed to include the territory of modern Romania, Moldova and northern Bulgaria. The Greek empire was supposed to include southern Bulgaria, Greece proper, the islands of the Archipelago and Macedonia. The capital for the Greek Empire was uncontestedly chosen Constantinople. It was assumed that before the combined power of the two empires, the Turks did not survive in their current borders.

At the head of the promising Greek Empire, in the unequivocal opinion of Catherine, her grandson, the second son of Tsarevich Paul, who was called Constantine at birth, was supposed to stand. He was born on April 27 of 1779, and in the birth manifesto it was pointedly pointed out that "one can expect an increase in the glory and power of Russia from a newborn." The Empress took care of the proper preparation of a possible future emperor. In honor of the birth of Constantine, a medal was knocked out, where the temple of Saint Sophia and the Black Sea were depicted. And over the cathedral, which the Turks turned into a mosque after the fall of Constantinople, the cross was clearly visible. In honor of the newborn, magnificent celebrations were arranged in the emphatic Greek entourage. The wet nurse of Constantine was also a Greek woman.

As for the second state, which was supposed to be created at the expense of the Turkish territories, Dacia, the question of the candidature of its ruler remained open. The Empress believed that this should be without a doubt the Christian monarch - the details were supposed to be coordinated with the Austrian side. While the process of polishing the Greek project was going on, Petersburg and Vienna continued to search for ways of rapprochement, and at the highest level.

Secret top level contacts

The first meeting of the two monarchs took place in 1780 in Mogilev. Joseph II arrived incognito under the name of Count Falkenstein. The young Austrian emperor became the autocratic ruler quite recently - in the recent past he shared the throne with his mother, Maria Theresa. Now he wanted to realize his own aspirations, first of all by expanding possessions in the Balkans and strengthening Austria’s influence in Europe.


Count Alexander Andreevich Bezborodko. Portrait by Johann Baptista Lumpy the Elder, 1794

The first contact was, as they say now, in a “constructive way”, and Joseph II also incognito later visited Moscow, and then St. Petersburg. At the same time the contours of the future Russian-Austrian Union were outlined. Meanwhile, in September 1780, the entrusted secretary of Catherine II, Count Alexander Andreevich Bezborodko, presented the empress with a document entitled “Political Affairs Memorial”. By and large, it contained on paper considerations on the subject of the “Greek project” and the concessions that Russia could give Austria for its participation in the union.

Memorial was in fact the first attempt to document the goals and objectives of the “Greek project” that had hitherto been in the air. It is known that Grigory Potemkin took an active part in editing this document. In fact, it was also a homework for future negotiations with the Austrian side. Vienna, meanwhile, was far from the role of a passive observer, and sensing the benefit, showed keen interest. Especially since Joseph II was very pleased with the meeting with Catherine.

Now, after the monarchs, diplomats had to express their sophisticated word. In January, 1781, the Austrian ambassador in St. Petersburg, Count Ludwig von Kobenzl, in secrecy, proposed to the Russian Chancellor, Count Ivan Andreevich Osterman, to begin direct work on the design of the union. The exchange of courtesies and compliments between the two monarchs had to be converted into a document with mutual guarantees and obligations, sealed with signatures and seals.


Joseph II. Portrait by Carl von Zales


If in the diplomatic relation to the agreement it was possible to come pretty quickly, then especially in technical matters there were serious hiccups. The fact is that Emperor Joseph II, being a modest man personally, who forbade his subjects to fall on his knees and kiss his hand, carefully observed the traditions of monarchical parochialism. The emperor of the Holy Roman Empire did not want to put his signature second in the already formed document, and even in the copy that was intended for the Russian side. The position of Catherine II was similar, according to which “not to take away the place and not to give it to anyone”. The conclusion of the contract stalled in search of a way out, to whom and how to subscribe. Finally, the Russian empress found a solution, suggesting that both high contracting parties simply exchange letters of identical content, certified by a personal signature. The messages were issued and sent to 21 and 24 in May 1781.

Like many other treaties of a similar nature, this one had formal and unofficial provisions. According to the first, Russia and Austria were in favor of maintaining peace in Europe. If one of the parties was attacked, the other pledged to support the ally with military force or a subsidy, the amount of which was specified separately. Both powers guaranteed the integrity of the Commonwealth, which, however, lived out its last years.

In the secret part of the treaty, Joseph II recognized the terms of the Kyuchuk-Kaynardzhi peace treaty. He also did this on behalf of all his successors. For her part, Catherine recognized all the territorial acquisitions of Austria as a result of her numerous wars with the Ottoman Porte. And most importantly, the Austrian emperor agreed to participate in the future war with Turkey. The war, which, according to Catherine II, could lead to the implementation of the "Greek project." The Russian side proceeded to discuss its details shortly after signing the alliance with Austria.

To be continued ...
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  1. Severski
    Severski April 16 2018 05: 47
    0
    Very interesting. We look forward to continuing
    1. Spnsr
      Spnsr April 16 2018 11: 42
      +1
      The author should have emphasized that Islam entered the Volga region and the North Caucasus in the early 17th century, and this is one and a half hundred years later than an attempt to create a protectorate over these territories and 50 years later attempts to resolve the issue of force because of these territories with Moscow. And the penetration of Islam into these territories took place during the time of turmoil in Moscow, in the form, now it would be called soft power!
      And an attempt by the Ottomans to keep the territory of the former Ataman empire, if you want the Byzantine Empire, is already after Moscow was called the third Rome, and 100 years after the Ottomans seized Constantinople. And the battle of Molodi is one of those milestones when only heirs, i.e. Ottomans, put forward their claims against the right of Ivan the Terrible to call himself a descendant of Augustus
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 16 2018 11: 56
        +1
        Quote: Author: Denis Brig
        Muscovy, as they called this country in Europe

        The author, pretending to be illiterate and absolutely not understanding and not knowing Russian history, in Jesuit slander Russia, Russia, misinterprets our history and drives Russophobic zombo formulas. The same and the same as the Jesuits from Infoviysk and the ministry of "truth" of the Bandera-fascist UKRAINE.

        The history of the issue has long been known. Having gained independence from the Big Horde, Ivan III took the title "Sovereign All Russia". The territory of all Russia was understandable to contemporaries - not only Russia who won freedom, but also occupied Lithuania and part of Poland - these are all historical lands of Russia. The Poles took up Jesuitism. 1517." Treatise on Two Sarmatians "by Matthew Mehovsky, they say, Russia is not Russia, and Muscovy, just like the now-mortal bawls. Western Jesuit propaganda, totalitarian, as it always was, is and will be, began to oblige Western authors to use this term. But then, outside Poland, Lithuania and, in part, Austria, it did not get much success. Russia, as it was then called in the West, RUSSIA, RUSLAND, is still called.
        Example. 1549 g. Basel "Rerum Moscoviticarum commentarij Sigismundi liberi baronis in Herberstain, Neyperg, et Guettenhag. Russiae, et quae nunc eius metropolis est, Moscoviae, brevissima descriptio ..." translation: "Notes on Muscovite affairs ... Russia and now its capital Muscovy, the shortest description ..."However, the 5th column impudently translates this heading as" Notes on Muscovy. "I'm not saying that any more literate person read Lucretius" On the nature of things "-" in rerum natura "and the word RERUM always translates. But with this, at least do something in the eyes, all of God's dew.
        1. dgonni
          dgonni April 16 2018 13: 31
          -1
          Oga, he took the title without permission without the approval of the Crimean Khan, for which he was mercilessly beat and continued to pay tribute. By the way, only the first Peter in 1720 stopped paying tribute.
          1. Cat
            Cat April 16 2018 17: 38
            +2
            Quote: dgonni
            Oga, he took the title without permission without the approval of the Crimean Khan, for which he was mercilessly beat and continued to pay tribute. By the way, only the first Peter in 1720 stopped paying tribute.

            Wake of the Crimean Khan ceased to send Catherine II. hi
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik April 17 2018 12: 25
            +1
            Quote: dgonni
            for which there was a mercilessly beat


            This is when exactly ??? In fact, Ivan III was an ally of the Crimean Khan.
            They didn’t pay tribute, but "wake" - a repayment from raids. So the Roman Empire paid "tribute" to the nomads, according to this logic, and France to Algerian pirates.
        2. Spnsr
          Spnsr April 16 2018 13: 33
          0
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          Big horde

          There is still to understand what historians mean by a large horde ?! And declaring himself heir to Augustus, did he not exert his right to the throne in a large horde !!!?
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. April 16 2018 15: 32
            +3
            Quote: SpnSr
            There is still to understand what historians mean by a large horde ?! And declaring himself heir to Augustus, did he not exert his right to the throne in a large horde !!!?
            You are not from Ukraine, you should be ashamed. When I was studying, it was taught at school as a milestone in my native history. And there is no room for questions and speculation. The Big Horde: enc-dic.com/enc_sovet/Bolshaja-orda-113032/ About August, see the Power Book - this is under Ivan IV, when the Big Horde was not there for 60 years.
            Quote: dgonni
            Oga, he took the title without permission without the approval of the Crimean Khan, for which he was mercilessly beat and continued to pay tribute. By the way, only the first Peter in 1720 stopped paying tribute.
            In Ukraine, creatures that go to a kind of school completely scrap their brains. It is funny that the victims of the Svidomo education are proud of the emptiness of their heads. Now they jump, then they kneel. So they live. Now they are still replaced by all natural science school disciplines with one. Because an educated person (in Ukraine - this has preserved at least one gyrus) is dangerous for the junta’s power, for the existence of a Bandera-fascist sub-state.
            1. dgonni
              dgonni April 16 2018 16: 00
              0
              Just when there is nothing to object to the essence of the matter, they begin to carry a blizzard of the type wink .
            2. Spnsr
              Spnsr April 21 2018 12: 22
              0
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              About Augustus, see the Degree Book - this is under Ivan IV, when the Great Horde was not already 60 years old.

              That's right, but looking at the same history textbooks that Ivan the Terrible, that the Ottomans, were not opposed to recreate it!
              For example, you are not against the reconstruction of the USSR?
    2. Proxima
      Proxima April 16 2018 19: 04
      0
      Quote: Severski
      Very interesting. We look forward to continuing

      Really interesting, my subjective opinion is that the Ottomans did not have a chance, even despite the machinations of England and France. They would tear it (the Ottoman Empire) as well as its northern counterpart - the Commonwealth. Moreover, Russia and Austria at that time were the strongest continental empires, especially in the military sphere. Strange as it may seem, Turkey was saved by the Great French Revolution. Then the whole world attacked Napoleon, including the Turks. fellow hi
  2. Cartalon
    Cartalon April 16 2018 08: 04
    +1
    In addition, the appearance of a strong Russian fleet in the Mediterranean did not like the enlightened sailors who suddenly realized that they were spending the gold a little out of place. The outbreak of war with Turkey brought Russia and Austria closer together, moreover, both yards had somewhat similar views on the Polish problem.
    The whole paragraph is not true. The British were happy about the damage to French trade, with Austria, it almost came to war.
    1. Cat
      Cat April 16 2018 11: 33
      +2
      Michael You are right!
      Denis apparently made a mistake for a dozen years. Unfortunately, he missed the role of other "liveries" at the feet of the Brilliant Porta. In addition to the French, all European diplomats abused us in detail. Especially interesting are the memoirs of contemporaries of Kutuzov about diplomats of Sweden and Denmark, although now I ran ahead of the engine !!! So wait for the continuation ......
  3. alatanas
    alatanas April 16 2018 11: 47
    +1
    The Kuchuk-Kainardzhi peace treaty was nothing more than another armistice, just having much more favorable conditions than the previous ones.

    10 / 21 Julia 1774 at the end of the fifth in turn war of Catherine II against Sultan Mustafa III, the “Kyuchuk-Kainardzhan peace treaty” was signed, at a water source near the Silistrian village of Kuchuk Kainardzha (today Kainardzha). According to the agreement, Kerch and some other Black Sea ports of the Crimean peninsula are given to Russia, and the rest of the Crimean Khanate is declared independent. The Ottoman Empire recognizes the independence of the Crimean Khanate and the accession of Azov to Russia, as well as the right to sail Russian merchant ships in Turkish waters and pass the Straits, as well as the Russian protectorate over Moldova and Wallachia, which are again under the rule of the Sultan, but Russia has the right to intervene in the affairs of the High Ports (court of the Sultan) on behalf of these two principalities.
  4. Babur_Imperat
    Babur_Imperat April 16 2018 18: 33
    +2
    You live as long as the Ottoman Empire lived, then talk about this one of the largest and most respected Turkic empires in the world.

    1. The Hunnish state (209 BC. - approx. 51 BC) is the first state created by the Turks. It was their culture that became its foundation.

    2. The Western state of the Huns arose after the collapse of the Hunnic state. Given the realities of that time, Shanuy (ruler of the Huns) Huhanye, in consultation with the elders, decided to become a vassal of China.

    3. Empire of the Huns. Atilla reached the largest sizes under the king of Scythia and Germany (434-453 years BC)

    The Huns are the successors of the Huns. The invasion of the Huns in Europe in the 70s of the XNUMXth century led to the “great migration of peoples”, which had far-reaching historical consequences for the further development of both Western Eurasia and Europe proper.
    4. The state of the Ephthalites (IV-VI centuries). This state, created by the Ephthalites or “White Huns”, occupied vast territories and included Sogdiana and Bactria (Central Asia), Afghanistan and Gandhara (northern India).

    5. Turkic Kaganate (552-603 gg.) - One of the largest ancient states in Asia in the history of mankind, created by the tribal union of Turks (Turkuts) led by rulers from the Ashin clan. This is the first state in the name of which the name “Türks” officially appeared.

    6. Avar Kaganate (562-823) - a state on the territory of modern Hungary, Austria, Slovakia, Croatia, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Serbia, Poland, Ukraine and part of Switzerland, which existed from 562 to 823. Founded by the Avar Hagan Bayan. One of the most influential states of the world of its time, which controlled all of Eastern Europe.

    7. Khazar Kaganate - a state that existed in the VII-XI centuries. The Khazars were the first of the Turkic peoples to abandon Tenrianism - in the VIII century. they began to practice Judaism. But it should be noted that only the Khagan and the elite were adherents of this religion, as for the main masses of the population, Christians, Muslims, Jews and Gentiles peacefully coexisted here.

    8. Uyghur Kaganate. The state that existed 745-847. It was a federation of different tribes, the ruling elite of which were the Uyghurs. The first Turkic state in which a transition to a sedentary lifestyle and the development of agriculture was outlined. Accordingly, the first cities appeared here.

    9. The state of Karakhanids that existed in 840-1212. After the adoption of Islam, the Karakhanids began to use the Uyghur alphabet, and the Turkic language was official. In this regard, unlike other Turkic-Islamic states, the influence of the Arabic and Persian languages ​​was manifested much less.

    10. The Gaznevid state existed in 961-1187. on the territory of Mavaraunnahr, northern India and Khorasan. Its role in history is determined by the fact that it contributed to the penetration of Islam into the very depths of the Hindustan peninsula. Therefore, some historians argue that it was the Ghaznavids that created the prerequisites for the separation of Pakistan and India.

    11. The Seljuk empire (1037-1194) combined both the Indo-Iranian traditions of government and the Turkic. According to the latter, in particular, all the land in the country was considered the property of the ruler.

    12. The state of Khorezmshahs (1097-1231) was created by Kutbeddin Muhammad Khorezmshah. Iranian influence prevailed in the culture of Khorezmshahs, and Seljuk dominated in art and public administration. This was the last strong state of Central Asia of the pre-Mongol period.

    13. The Golden Horde. Since the ruler’s tent was covered with gold in the khan’s parking lot (orda), he was called the Golden Horde. Over time, this name passed to the entire state.

    14. The state of the Timurids (1370 - the beginning of the XVI century) was founded by the emir of Chagatai Timur from the clan Barlasov. Culturally, it incorporated Islamic and Persian elements, and in military affairs - Turkic-Mongolian traditions.

    15. The Mughal Empire was founded in 1526 by Babur and was the heir to the Turkic-Mongol traditions. It was during the Mughal era that incomparable architectural masterpieces were created, which were included in the golden fund of world culture. The most famous of them is the Taj Mahal.
    16. The Ottoman Empire (1299-1922) occupied vast territories, including Eastern Europe, Southwest Asia and North Africa.

    The state was culturally strongly influenced by both Islamic Arab and Persian cultures, and by the peoples of the Greeks, Armenians, and Jews that have long lived on this earth.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 16 2018 18: 42
      +2
      Quote: Babur_Imperatorlugu
      You live as long as the Ottoman Empire lived, then talk about this one of the largest and most respected Turkic empires in the world.

      Looking at this list of "achievements" of the Sumero-Turkic state, you involuntarily recall other "historians" who dug out, in their opinion, the Black Sea ....
      1. Babur_Imperat
        Babur_Imperat April 16 2018 19: 36
        -1
        You have not achieved anything yet. All your achievements are the creation of a wooden bucket on a wooden loom. laughing
        The rest are all German developments by German scientists yes
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 16 2018 19: 43
          +2
          Quote: Babur_Imperatorlugu
          You have not achieved anything yet. All your achievements are the creation of a wooden bucket on a wooden loom.

          Loving donkeys is about you ....
          wassat
    2. Spnsr
      Spnsr April 21 2018 13: 46
      0
      Quote: Babur_Imperatorlugu
      respected Turkic empires in the world.

      Do not get excited so much! The fact is that the doctrine of races and nationalities appeared at the end of the 18th and developed in the 19th centuries. And the concept of Turk, if it was, then at the household level, and at the end of the last century, there was officially no concept of Turk, but there were Turkic-speaking tribes !!!
    3. Spnsr
      Spnsr April 21 2018 20: 24
      0
      Quote: Babur_Imperatorlugu
      13. The Golden Horde. Since the ruler’s tent was covered with gold in the khan’s parking lot (orda), he was called the Golden Horde. Over time, this name passed to the entire state.

      laughing Want to see the golden domes now? laughing