The military will present three options for high-speed helicopter

The Russian defense ministry will receive three projects of a promising high-speed combat helicopter at once. TASS communication source in the military-industrial complex.

Flying laboratory of a high-speed helicopter converted from a Mi-24K helicopter.

Earlier, the head of the Russian Helicopters holding company, Andrei Boginsky, reported that the concept of a high-speed helicopter for the Russian Defense Ministry would be presented by November 2018.

According to an agency source, “the department will be presented with three concepts of a high-speed combat helicopter with a different aerodynamic design scheme.”

The first option is a classic helicopter with one main and one tail rotor. The second one is a helicopter with a combined power plant, where, in addition to the rotor, there are additional propellers on the sides of the hull pulling the helicopter forward. They compensate for the torque from the rotor. The third scheme is a twin-screw coaxially with rigid rotors and an additional pusher screw in the tail, the so-called propulsive propulsion,

said the source.

He clarified that, at the request of the military, the maximum speed of a prospective combat helicopter should be “400 and more km / h, cruising - 360 and more km / h”.

The project of a perspective combat helicopter assumes that the vehicle will be armed with the entire nomenclature of means of destruction - these are cannon armament, guided and unguided missiles and bombs,

added source.

Recall that at present the speed of combat helicopters does not exceed 300-350 km / h, which is associated with the design features of this class of aircraft. Designers of a number of countries around the world are also working to create high-speed helicopters, for example, the S-97 Raider - in the USA, Eurocopter X3 - in Europe.

Comments

[Vard]

Helicopters are good ... but as I understand it, our konvertoplanes do not plan to build ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

After the attacks on Syria, nothing pleases ... High-speed helicopters to drape? heh heh ..

[Xroft]

Aha will fly over Red Square and until 2050 ++ we will not see them. Where are there 1000 units based on Almaty?

[cariperpaint]

but forgive you, what sadness is up to their quantity?))) MO knows in my opinion when and how much to buy) 100 ordered gradually and buy the rest.

[Xroft]

Because they stated that by 2020 over 1000 units will be delivered on the basis of Almaty? right now already 10% of the target ... our only know how to grind with language and concern. And in fact the t-72bz is naked, BMP-1 with kits from btr-82 ... 70% of the plan for the fleet failed ... vinaigrette from Mrapov (some of which hold a maximum of 3 kg of explosives, this is not even the STANAG standard) .. well, here you have to write an entire article that was promised according to plan 2020 and what happened ....

[cariperpaint]

So what? in 2014, everyone already knew this after the Crimea. but for me it's worth it.

[cast iron]

In some 1980th year, you did not care at all about the number of new tanks in the Red Army. And their number and the order of the Defense Ministry were a military secret. Now, for some reason, you are vividly interested in who ordered how much and for how many? ))))

[aws4]

of course they know better .. the road workers know better how to make roads and all the roads in the pits .. sausages like sausage - which in fact has turned into compound feed for the population .. we have the whole top and big business knows everything better than us and that's why we have all all all and even more)))))))))))))))

[Dead duck]

Quote: MIKHAN

High-speed helicopters to drape? heh heh ..

yes finally ,,, cut solid!
it’s better not to do or build anything, otherwise it’s just a waste of money ...
better spend on business

[Mstivoy]

Something you are in a hurry with "surrender." There were attacks on Syria, but I would not remember what damage they caused ...

[cariperpaint]

and what is wrong with them? This is not the first or even the second time. why are all so excited?))))

[True]

Quote: MIKHAN

After the attacks on Syria, nothing pleases ... High-speed helicopters to drape? heh heh ..

With toilets on board, this is a prerequisite. Even better, if the engine is on a fickle.

[igorka357]

Everyone .. lost the old fellow, went to another camp ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: igorka357

Everyone .. lost the old fellow, went to another camp ...

Do not wait .. heh heh Just the fighting fervor was slightly reduced and I was angry!
Russia is focusing!

[u1977020556]

The MOON comes to life, I even know why, but I won’t write about it here, and the tilt planes are not as promising as strike systems, and in general, let the EUROSHA build them - that same project will be. Why, I won’t write either - I want to see the result, and silence is gold, in every sense).
The only thing I can say is that the work of Rostislav Alekseev was not in vain - he was the most worthy man, and how he was treated in his lifetime! He is worthy of memory and glory and the best continuation of his endeavors! But I won’t say anything more).

[cast iron]

The ekranoplanes are even more unpromising. Soviet designers in the distant 70s understood this.

[cast iron]

What an important intellectual! ))) The ekranoplanes are unpromising. Why? Yes, everything is very simple. At an altitude of 5-10 meters above sea level, it is very dangerous to fly. You’ll do a little roll and scoop up water with wings with wings and break up into bolts and nuts. No maneuver at all. Also, as an example, I put the Lun ekranoplane with 500 identical engines with Tu-3 power and have almost the same payload of 154 tons with it? With crazy fuel consumption? This is a complete lack of hope.

[u1977020556]

Read my previous comment. I was somewhat emotional there, but, as your “analysis” implies, fortunately, is absolutely correct. I will give a hint for some points. The screen effect excellently holds the wing, there are no problems with controllability, but no one, including ours, has effectively succeeded in calculating its actions in computer modeling. However, all models of equipment and "Lun" and "Eaglet" have excellent maneuverability (each for its size) and remarkable stability precisely due to the screen effect. Think about why this is and why others are not able to repeat it. EUROSHA took a detailed photograph of all of the above pieces of equipment, went inside - as a result of zero to the exit. They went in for convertiplanes and again did not succeed ... and did not succeed until their Lun ass warmed. Think why this is so? With load-carrying capacity, you also messed up, because you do not understand why the ekranoplan is arranged exactly as it is.
I beg you, do not write to me anymore. As a result, if God gives, all your doubts will be scattered by a working model of technology.
It would be nice to live up to this day.

[cast iron]

Dear friend. How do you imagine turning left-right in pitch on an ekranoplane? Or are you just about to tail maneuver? I understand very well why, after several accidents, Soviet designers in FIG closed this "promising" topic. Once again, I give an introduction. You fly on an ekranoplane at a speed of 400-500km / h, loaded with cargo to the eyeballs at an altitude of 5-10 m above water level. You cannot rise higher - only due to the screen and you can carry so much cargo. You need to turn relatively sharply to the left. You use ailerons, roll to the left on the plane, touch the wings of water and fly away with the load to the other world. All. All your fantasies and advantages and prospects have run out.
There was never any maneuverability. Only if the "empty" flew in an airplane at altitudes up to 6000m.

[u1977020556]

The topic was "closed" not by designers but by undercover bureaucrats with the help of illiterate extras like you (see the previously mentioned film). I’m not going to think about how the ekranoplan works - it did before me, it turned out fine, watch the movie), it’s a pity that it didn’t immediately, otherwise they would have managed to get into service en masse. You make grave mistakes in your reasoning, obviously you are not just poorly informed, it is obvious that with a very high probability you are not an engineer at the moment, regardless of your education. I don’t have the desire to tryndet here with you about what has already happened (see the movie). Chatterbox is a godsend for the spy. I could tell you and even show you something ... but you will manage, I won’t feed you from the bastard. In general, in principle, in parallel to me, how exactly are you hopeless there. Just do not misinform people!
And if for good - at least watch a movie.
And yet, it didn’t work to close something)) And then, and now everywhere - it’s progress, a step forward. The time of fools like you is over, it will close you soon.

[cast iron]

Go the right way! You do not think. You eat popcorn and watch feature films of journalists about the world’s unparalleled))))) You had nothing to say from the beginning, so you so diligently asked me not to write anymore))))) Watch your thin films further. They are patriotic and very entertaining. I myself like to watch them when I don’t want to think.

[u1977020556]

The film is documentary. ... It's hard with you. ((
I suggested the film for you because you are not an engineer, you are a writer or provocateur, or something in between.
I will give the last two tips:
First one. There was such a Soviet engineer Bortini, he, in particular, was forced to practice the issue of controlling the screen effect .... and then try to grow wiser yourself)).
The second one. WIG - this is definitely not a plane. Any structural engineer will say that. ... why is this so? )) You will be able to figure it out - you will understand where the maneuverability and load-bearing capacity of Alekseev’s ekranoplanes come from ... I’m somewhat restrained or secretive, I need to write something else ... But I won’t, .. make a mistake again)).
Yet.

[cast iron]

I give you two answers to the prompts. The naturalized Soviet Italian Bartini (spelled "a") in his life made only one completed aircraft and that is not completely him - EP-2. It was a rather mediocre bomber. It’s worth you to grow wiser, because Bartini did not make a single completed serial ekranoplan. And experienced coulibiacs were created and researched by all the designers of that time. He was a brilliant theorist. His mind helped in many decisions. And about the problems with the control of the aircraft at an altitude of 5 meters, you did not say anything to me. Offer to eat by the root?

I tell you once again that for a relatively sharp turn, an ekranoplane, like an airplane, needs a roll in the direction of rotation. How to roll at heights of 5-10 meters ???? Will you answer this question as an engineer to an engineer?

[prodi]

Quote: Vard

Helicopters are good ... but as I understand it, our konvertoplanes do not plan to build ...

let's hope so. Really, a decent convertiplane is an energy-intensive scheme with 4 jet engines

[ALEXXX1983]

Quote: prodi

with 4 jet engines

Better with turboprops.

[prodi]

the screws will interfere

[kupitman]

As far as I remember, all US convertiplanes are transport, apparently they are not as efficient as helicopters.
and here we are talking about attack helicopter

[Antidote]

Can anyone explain why he is needed? Well, except for "I want."

[Vard]

Reaction time ... adversary thinks ... I still have time to run to the Mexican border ... but no ... already NURSs flew ...

[NIKNN]

Quote: Vard

Reaction time ... adversary thinks ... I still have time to run to the Mexican border ... but no ... already NURSs flew ...

+ advantage over enemy helicopters in the conduct of air confrontation ... Yes, a lot of things can be, it would be, and tactics will appear ..

[BVS]

And others say why Russia needs an aircraft carrier, why is it so needed?
And others say, why Russia needs a heavy space launch vehicle, why is it so needed?

[taiga2018]

Quote: bvs

Why is he so needed?

there are those who generally say why we need an army, especially hysteria after the American attacks on Syria ... it looks as if they told us before the WWII why we need an army if Hitler captured all of Europe ...

[Antidote]

Do you propose to start building Star Destroyer? Nafenhua?

[KVIRTU]

Boeing and Lockheed Martin recently once again moved this idea of ​​a high-speed helicopter, cut the loot. Well, ours decided not to get lost.
Add a push screw to the tail boom. Speed ​​400 vs 300 in the usual pattern.
And on the same fuel supply, the range drops almost twice. Who needs it ...

[True]

Quote: bvs

others say why Russia needs an aircraft carrier, why is it so needed?
And others say, why Russia needs a heavy space launch vehicle, why is it so needed?

Some seriously think about the need for such a country. With a poor population, funny science and education, ushatannaya infrastructure and a house with villas and children in the west ... for what? Why ?!

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: Antidote

Can anyone explain why he is needed? Well, except for "I want."

Honestly I do not understand. From missiles MANPADS and air defense missiles at a speed still will not go away. If we are talking about combat, and not about the landing of a quick assault from a high-speed transport helicopter in the right place, it is also unclear. In general, attack helicopters thought both to destroy and to cover military land vehicles on the march, which rarely moves in a column faster than 60 km / h. Maybe we are talking about shock fast operations associated with jumps and quick exit from the zone of short radius of air defense? Quickly reach enemy positions on the approach time and all that? Or are we talking about the benefits of helicopter combat with each other?

[Dead duck]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

I honestly don’t understand.

I think the same ... what for they are being built?! ...
and planes and tanks ... they’ll knock down one and all ...
only money down the drain.
On foot, it’s more reliable. And with clubs, otherwise the cartridges suddenly run out or something breaks inside the machine.

[newcomer]

So this is just quiet development, design options. in Soviet times, a lot of those variations were made for every type of equipment in each design bureau. it all depended on the flight range of the imagination of the inventor of the designer. it’s good, because of the diversity of the MO chose the very thing. usually.

[Dead duck]

Welcome
And you comrade with your nickname need to be careful
Still, even exchange for the Old Man ... it will be calmer

[newcomer]

colleague, youk mokarek, welcome. Well, to the old man I’m still awesome. Yes, and my nickname with the avatar correspond. so be it, I will not demand copyright from amerzoyanov.

[ALEXXX1983]

Newbie, the main thing is not to stick to Small Britain, otherwise they will arrest you for poisoning the Skripals.

[gridasov]

There is a big difference between the fact that a huge number of design forms of the aircraft are offered and the fact that the scientifically based principle of the new engine-propulsion is proposed, which changes everything completely. And the problem is not in the evidence that it is real and effective, but in the fact that the mass consciousness is not ready for such innovative solutions

[210ox]

There are probably other reasons besides “want”. The development of new materials, engines, avionics ... You can not do it, but then there will be nothing new ..

Quote: Antidote

Can anyone explain why he is needed? Well, except for "I want."

[Antidote]

Nobody argues about the improvement of operational indicators, the scope of application is not obvious to me personally, but I can control it myself)

[Mstivoy]

The scope of operations, the advantages of speed, tactics will fit the characteristics, what is not clear?

[kupitman]

The area is the same as that of helicopters, but today all kinds of TOUs, javelins and cornets can shoot down low-flying non-high-speed targets. I think this is a departure from ground-based vehicles.

[Grandfather Eugene]

For quick response. ~ 800 km.h

[tchoni]

Quote: Antidote

Can anyone explain why he is needed? Well, except for "I want."

Nizachach he is not needed. Faster rockets (bullets, shells, the need to emphasize) will still not be. It was in “Russian helicopters” that they came up with such a topic, so that the granny “loose” cuts down and does not bother with allies on the subject of electronics, guidance systems, long-range guns, radars, thermal imagers, btsvm and other tuffs (well, really, what are you? bablishko then allies will rake in, and we have a shit ?! - yes, nafik!) And here - and our bablishko and heap of operating time also do not bother much with allies, and in the trend - the bourgeois saw the same thing .... (prada them with electronics and a range of guns, all the rules, and the military budget is 10 times more ...- but this is garbage, who cares.

[Mountain shooter]

A high-speed helicopter is still a helicopter. A tiltrotor is still quite an expensive and complex machine. A high-speed helicopter - is urgently needed - it can quickly and far deliver a landing or strike - on a helicopter. The radius of action is growing, the required network of airfields is decreasing.
Wangyu - a more perspective coaxial scheme with a pushing screw ...

[Antidote]

You just have to choose, either fast or far. With an increase in speed, consumption increases sharply, especially in a cracker such as a helicopter.

[ALEXXX1983]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The radius of action is growing, the required network of airfields is decreasing.

Why? High speed is not = long range, often just the opposite.
And he will be far from the speed of the attack aircraft. It would be better if a normal ATGM was developed instead of the long-old obsolete 2 generations, but apparently the elemental base does not allow it.

[shuravi]

Quote: Vard

Reaction time ... adversary thinks ... I still have time to run to the Mexican border ... but no ... already NURSs flew ...

The stormtrooper will cope with this.

[Grandfather Eugene]

Will cope. A helicopter is more effective against infantry and light equipment than an attack aircraft.

[shuravi]

The first option is a classic helicopter with one main and one tail rotor. The second is a helicopter with a combined power plant, where in addition to the main rotor, additional propellers are installed on the sides of the hull, pulling the helicopter forward. They compensate for the torque from the rotor.

Judging by the lexicon, the conversation was with the aerodrome sweeper.

[newcomer]

The second option is more like a power plant of the Soviet-developed Mil. large in size and cargo. lifting machine with three dvigunami and, accordingly, with three screws.

[alexhol]

I watched a program about a factory where Mil's helicopters are made. So there one of the experts boasted that the reliability of the devices has increased significantly, including thanks to modern machines capable of producing parts with the highest accuracy. Then I managed to remember the flashed name and google a little later in the hope of reading where they learned how to make such machines in Russia. This guys didn’t even turn out to be Germany or Switzerland, nor China. This is a country with which there is still no peace treaty - Japan. What kind of .... counter-sanctions can Russia say if the state-owned machinery of the country claiming its territory is used at a military plant? As the saying goes in case of war, the hope is only for "landlis" from China.

[newcomer]

Since Yapi did not support sanctions (more precisely, they supported it purely symbolically), you can trade. and about pretend to ter.riy. here you know how, show on the globe the country with which we did not have a problem, larger or smaller.

[Awaz]

During the Soviet era, the country produced a huge number of different nomenclatures of machine tools, but they never refused to buy decent Western systems .. I myself personally worked at one of the Soviet factories in the military-industrial complex and even English machine tools stood there.

[faiver]

the Soviet Union the whole WWII was fought with a significant part of the machine tool equipment of German production, and now what? I do not understand this criticism
Well, it’s not given, for example, Russia to make a massive good car, but Kalashnikov knows the whole world ..

[K-50]

I read somewhere that a high-speed helicopter according to the Mi-24 scheme will not be able to fly faster than 400 km / h.
Something is connected with aerodynamics. Saying at this speed, not only does the rotational moment begin to act stronger, but it also overturns from the tail rotor, and the faster and closer to this limit, the stronger the overturning moment.
If there are helicopter pilots, will they be able to comment on this moment somehow?
Therefore, the most optimal design on the basis of a coaxial scheme with a pushing screw. There, in general, up to five hundred kilometers can be accelerated, with the corresponding engine power.

[faiver]

Shuravi is like a helicopter pilot

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: faiver

Shuravi is like a helicopter pilot

Matershinnik he ... latent

[faiver]

yes in my opinion far from latent

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: faiver

in my opinion far from latent

This is me politeness dish. Nine "medals" are already, but more ... does not happen

[faiver]

Well, for example, I don’t see anything offensive here, in our life without a mat

[YELLOWSTONE]

and then compensate for unused money?

[tchoni]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: faiver

Shuravi is like a helicopter pilot

Matershinnik he ... latent

This does not affect the quality of a person. For me, it’s so that even if she speaks completely on interjections, but at the same time she speaks.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Matershinnik he ... latent

Comrade Captain Maxim-Mina swore much better.) He barked everyone.

[dauria]

Therefore, the most optimal design on the basis of a coaxial scheme with a pushing screw.

yes, until better come up. The point is in the backflow zone. A vane extending “backward” starts from the butt (sleeve) to flow in a “back-and-forth” flow. In a coaxial circuit, this occurs symmetrically on the left and right. As a result, the single-rotor must compensate for both roll and reduction in lift. In coaxial - only a decrease. A way to increase speed runs into strength. The peripheral speed of the end of the blade at 120 rpm and a radius of 10 meters 125 m / s (450 km per hour), Here is the figure when one side of the screw completely loses its lift. (Mi-24 revolutions 120, diameter 17 m). Sincerely, Engineer of the "Armenian" Aviation.

[kupitman]

mi-24 in this case, the laboratory

[K-50]

Quote: kupitman

mi-24 in this case, the laboratory

Nobody argues, the technical scheme is checked at a flying laboratory.

[Wilderness]

And what is the advantage of this pepelats over a helicopter attack aircraft? Weapons and bomb loads are basically the same, speed is even for piston, WWII times with full load more. Range? Vitality? Profitability? Cost? In all of this, he is inferior. Plus only in the possibility of vertical takeoff / landing, the ability to hover over the battlefield (I have never seen in real battles a video of a helicopter hanging on the spot). Take-off also requires prepared.
Yes, I forgot one more plus: a profit in the form of profit for the manufacturer.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

And what will give extra 50 km / h to helicopter speed ?! Is it so important to make a new helicopter ?! Most likely this will affect its value in the direction of increase, but the possibility of carrying capacity is likely to decrease ...

In my opinion, we need several more types of helicopters, we need a small helicopter for reconnaissance and various other tasks, and a special helicopter for special forces with small weapons but strong armor, resistant to heavy machine guns at least - this helicopter will be needed to evacuate special forces groups and aircraft crews and helicopters shot down over enemy-controlled territory ... We need a helicopter that can bring our soldiers out under fire ...

[Rostislav]

quickly and far will be able to deliver an assault or strike - on a helicopter. The radius of action is growing, the required network of airfields is decreasing

The range depends on the size of the fuel tanks and the gluttony of the engines. Or do you think that a high-speed helicopter will be more economical than usual? Will be. As much as a supercar is more economical than an ordinary car.

[evil partisan]

Soon, it will be impossible to approach the helicopter from any direction at all — only propellers will be around ...

[APASUS]

This pursuit of the West is embarrassing. In fact, for a helicopter, the speed advantage is not critical over modern electronic warfare systems, air-to-air missiles. For any tests, the helicopter will not go beyond 2 misses, otherwise it will no longer be a helicopter, then why? I can say that we are slowly being dragged into a technological race, where the entire invisibility effect is based on advertising and perfectly debunked in the meter range. The only problem is that the West is not limited in means, and we get them when selling energy. It recalls the story of the United States SDI, where the Americans were able to breed the leadership of the USSR into huge grandmothers.
We have our own achievements, so develop and let the Americans try to copy ours, and not we try to play the jet engine into the corn box!

[gridasov]

New approaches to wing theory make it possible to speak of a wing as an induction device in a highly dynamic flow of an elastic medium. .In this case, the induced current in the wing allows us not to deal with destructive processes, but to use a wider range of wing rotation speeds. Therefore, the new mover allows you to create higher compression processes for hydrodynamic flow and use it as an engine and as a mover. It is also obvious that for a variety of reasons and simplicity, such a new device is a breakthrough into the future.

[shinobi]

It seems to me that the twin-screw coaxial is the most promising. Only I would replace the pushing screw. I would use the jet from the gas turbine engine instead of the screw. As a result, the upper speed bar can rise to 600-700 km / h.

[prodi]

it is doubtful that the frontal resistance of the coaxial is good enough for a jet propulsion, in addition, it is possible that the operation of the pushing screw can be ensured by redistributing the thrust from the coaxial ones (decreasing their step with increasing speed)

[gridasov]

We need a rationale for what principles to apply. The pursuit of speed should not violate the quality factor of the process and the stability of the equipment to loads. Moreover, optimal transients at the joints of the moving parts are necessary. All this is not on modern engine designs. On helicopter blades in general, there are such energy losses of the air flow that there is no need to talk about the possibility of further development

[prodi]

Quote: gridasov

optimal transients are needed at the joints of the moving parts. All this is not on modern engine designs. On helicopter blades in general, there are such energy losses of the air flow that there is no need to talk about the possibility of further development

well, we stand on earth, and therefore more than about 500 km / h, we don’t even dream

[gridasov]

I do not believe in science fiction, but if it were possible to present our concept, then everyone else would simply be children's games.

[prodi]

damn, Gridasov, well, when will you already fly to the envy of everyone?

[gridasov]

You must fly, not us. We have other goals and objectives.

[kupitman]

By the way, an interesting idea. But will this not lead to a loss of power on the screw?

[gridasov]

With a modern design and the interaction of the flow with the surface of the outflow of the blade, it is not possible to create pressure drops either on the screws or in the turbines. I still do not describe the reasons for this phenomenon. In any case, the pressure does not drop. Moreover, cavitation phenomena in water, and the same phenomena in the form of nebulae, but in fact the same phenomena in the air only add what you call the power of the stream

[shuravi]

Quote: Grandfather Eugene

Will cope. A helicopter is more effective against infantry and light equipment than an attack aircraft.

Wrong. The advantage of the helicopter is that it can work along the front edge of the enemy who has already entered into combat contact.

[shuravi]

Quote: K-50

I read somewhere that a high-speed helicopter according to the Mi-24 scheme will not be able to fly faster than 400 km / h.
Something is connected with aerodynamics. Saying at this speed, not only does the rotational moment begin to act stronger, but it also overturns from the tail rotor, and the faster and closer to this limit, the stronger the overturning moment.
If there are helicopter pilots, will they be able to comment on this moment somehow?
Therefore, the most optimal design on the basis of a coaxial scheme with a pushing screw. There, in general, up to five hundred kilometers can be accelerated, with the corresponding engine power.

There is such a thing: a backflow zone.
What's the point. It is known that the vanes on the port side are moving towards the stream. While on the starboard side downstream.
As a result, with an equal pitch of the blades, due to the addition and subtraction of speeds, the thrust on the left will be greater than on the right.
Which ultimately makes you roll with the increase in the translational speed of the helicopter, to the right. The pilot compensates for this by giving the heap to the right (changing the cyclic step)
But this is not all, it is clear that than that the peripheral speed of the blade is zero at the root and maximum at the tip.

And on the blade on the right, at translational speed there will be a zone where it flows around the other way around, thereby creating negative traction.
And with increasing speed, this zone grows:

And giving the handle to the left no longer corrects, but exacerbates the situation. There is a so-called "felling" and reverse controllability.
Plus, closer to the endings, a stall is observed due to supercritical angles of attack.

[gridasov]

I am very pleased to see that there are people who understand the evidence of what really exists as a phenomenon. The question is only to expand a bit to find a solution to the problem. Any situation and any phenomenon just needs to be seen as an algorithmic process, and this phenomenon in it as a particular element of events. This is to say that when there is a conversation about hyper speeds, then the above example will go into a higher potential phenomenon and physical effect. The effect of a rotating ball in the oncoming flow is just an example of a small effect, but developing to a high-potential phenomenon according to the algorithm

[not main]

Quote: shuravi

Quote: K-50

I read somewhere that a high-speed helicopter according to the Mi-24 scheme will not be able to fly faster than 400 km / h.
Something is connected with aerodynamics. Saying at this speed, not only does the rotational moment begin to act stronger, but it also overturns from the tail rotor, and the faster and closer to this limit, the stronger the overturning moment.
If there are helicopter pilots, will they be able to comment on this moment somehow?
Therefore, the most optimal design on the basis of a coaxial scheme with a pushing screw. There, in general, up to five hundred kilometers can be accelerated, with the corresponding engine power.

There is such a thing: a backflow zone.
What's the point. It is known that the vanes on the port side are moving towards the stream. While on the starboard side downstream.
As a result, with an equal pitch of the blades, due to the addition and subtraction of speeds, the thrust on the left will be greater than on the right.
Which ultimately makes you roll with the increase in the translational speed of the helicopter, to the right. The pilot compensates for this by giving the heap to the right (changing the cyclic step)
But this is not all, it is clear that than that the peripheral speed of the blade is zero at the root and maximum at the tip.

And on the blade on the right, at translational speed there will be a zone where it flows around the other way around, thereby creating negative traction.
And with increasing speed, this zone grows:

And giving the handle to the left no longer corrects, but exacerbates the situation. There is a so-called "felling" and reverse controllability.
Plus, closer to the endings, a stall is observed due to supercritical angles of attack.

One solution is to reduce the diameter of the HB. And in the coaxial scheme, this problem is expressed in the traction of HB at maximum speed. those. if you add a screw in the ass, then you can achieve more speed. According to the principle of gyroplane (very conditional).

[san4es]

The second is a helicopter with a combined power plant, where in addition to the main rotor, additional propellers are installed on the sides of the hull, pulling the helicopter forward.

On May 12, 2011, the X3 prototype set a “personal record”: for several minutes, it confidently held a speed of about 430 kilometers per hour.

The third scheme is a twin-screw coaxial with rigid rotors and an additional pushing screw in the tail

Sikorsky S-97 Raider. With the new S-97 engine, with a take-off weight of about five tons, it will be able to accelerate to 440-450 kilometers per hour. In this case, the flight range will exceed 500 kilometers.

[gridasov]

Well, there are no miracles in such matters！ It becomes more complicated, the design, which means the quality factor, falls. The energy costs of driving each engine are growing, which means the payload is falling, etc., etc. Therefore, do not lie to yourself that this new is better than the old. The foundation of the physical process on which both the engine and propulsor remains unchanged. So progress is not worth talking about.

[san4es]

Quote: gridasov

... The design becomes more complicated, which means the quality factor is falling. The energy costs of driving each engine are growing ...

... Low-cost, simplified design, with jet screw

[gridasov]

I’m writing as if in empty space. The work of the blades in converting the energy of a hydro-gas-dynamic flow is cardinally more effective if the flow moves along completely different vectors, and not as on modern principles. Therefore, do not associate our developments with what exists. Designers simply can not cross the threshold of imagination and combine processes both in the environment and in the iron.

[san4es]

Quote: gridasov

... Designers simply can not cross the threshold of imagination and combine processes both in the environment and in the iron.

... Then what?

... otherwise:

as if in empty space ...

[gridasov]

The probability of maintaining a balance of forces can only be if the quantitative parameters of the strength of some are comparable with the qualitative achievements of others.

[True]

Domestic animators promise us a new pepelats wunder?)

[Old26]

Quote: u1977020556

MOON comes to life

In the sense of rotting?

Quote: u1977020556

and you don’t know figures, facts, history or truth, but you dare to crow

The post is not for me - but I will answer. If you cite figures and facts (history has nothing to do with it), then it will become even brighter that this is a dead end. And not a plane (TTX worse than a plane with a similar take-off weight), and not a ship. For any ship surpasses it in all respects except speed. Under-plane, under-ship. And as a result it rots on a slip. If only a museum would have been made of it ...

Quote: newbie

So this is just quiet development, design options. in Soviet times, a lot of those variations were made for every type of equipment in each design bureau. it all depended on the flight range of the imagination of the inventor of the designer. it’s good, because of the diversity of the MO chose the very thing. usually.

The fact that there could be many such variations is without a doubt. That's just the cornerstone was not a flight of fancy, but the tactical and technical requirements of the customer. Rarely, when there were major developments on their own, without a plan. Even in Soviet times, it was very expensive. Unless such an organization as the Krylovsky Center could afford to experiment with models of buildings. And as evil tongues say in the 90s, they even experimented with buildings similar to the current American Zumvolt

Quote: tchoni

It was in “Russian helicopters” that they came up with such a topic, so that the granny “loose” cuts down and does not bother with allies on the subject of electronics, guidance systems, long-range guns, radars, thermal imagers, btsvm and other tuffs (well, really, what are you?

Actually, it’s all reduced to a cut, any development does not mean that you are right or understand something. Trends in increasing aircraft speeds always exist. Yes, with temporary stops at some level, but then the next speed line is taken.
For example, when developing our aircraft-carrying cruisers, there was a serious question about equipping them (in the late 80s) with fighter helicopters (KA vehicles). That is precisely the very high-speed helicopters that you consider unnecessary and only means of cutting. And it was precisely these tasks that he solved. Because of the speed, the enemy’s helicopter could “meet” long before it enters the battlefield air defense zone.
Based on your logic, you can ask a question:
1. Why do we need new aircraft, such as the MIG-41, which, as they say, will have a speed of about 4M? Why did they come up with it? Likely to cut the dough?
2. Or why are hypersonic missiles needed? After all, there are existing supersonic. But this industry, in addition to solving a lot of complex issues on the dynamics of hypersonic flight, handling, materials, is a very long-term and costly topic. This is where you can cut money? So why do we need hypersonic missiles7

[Wolka]

take the good old IL-2 attack aircraft, and besides the bow screw attach a vertical main rotor and go ...

[True]

Quote: Volka

take the good old IL-2 attack aircraft, and besides the bow screw attach a vertical main rotor and go ...

By the way, yes! This is our method. But did the corps remain from the Soviet backlog? Nothing needs to be changed. Instead of analog devices, Chinese screens and all
Turns around? Is flying? ≥ 500 km \ h. Here it is!

[Brushing]

Quote: Xroft

Because they stated that by 2020 over 1000 units will be delivered on the basis of Almaty? right now already 10% of the target ... our only know how to grind with language and concern. And in fact the t-72bz is naked, BMP-1 with kits from btr-82 ... 70% of the plan for the fleet failed ... vinaigrette from Mrapov (some of which hold a maximum of 3 kg of explosives, this is not even the STANAG standard) .. well, here you have to write an entire article that was promised according to plan 2020 and what happened ....

And who will build ships, yes tanks, when there are practically no hard workers or enterprises ???

Previously, in any city there were a lot of factories and factories that in wartime were redesigned for the needs of the front ....- And now ??? Sysadmins, Asians and hucksters go to the militia or sharpen shells, but collect tanks ???))))

[shuravi]

Quote: non-primary

One solution is to reduce the diameter of the HB. And in the coaxial scheme, this problem is expressed in the traction of HB at maximum speed. those. if you add a screw in the ass, then you can achieve more speed. According to the principle of gyroplane (very conditional).

Reducing the diameter of the rotor with an increase in revolutions thereof + unloading thereof.
What was used on the Mi-24. Which was developed on the basis of the Mi-8 carrier system, but the diameter has been reduced from 21,3 m to 17,3 m, but the speed is from 192 to 240.
But nothing happens for nothing, the altitude of the Mi-24 is worse than that of the Mi-8, and the speed drops significantly with increasing altitude.
If on the ground it easily scratches for 300, then on 4500 m, barely barely 150.

[Voenoboz]

A tiltrotor is good because its speed is higher than that of a helicopter, it can be used as rescue equipment. Had he been in the ranks of the Navy, submarine crews could have been saved in the event of an accident. And the ekranoplan also has its positive characteristics. Not everything needs to be measured with money and efficiency. And you can imagine how much factories and all kinds of enterprises will earn in production, and these are the jobs for our people for us. Alien brands of cars drive on our roads and we owe ours, we need to work without unbending, but we don’t have it.

[u1977020556]

Your reasoning is reasonable. The screen effect is very complicated. It consists of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics at the same time, while classical approaches on both sides do not add up to a controllable ekranoplan. But behind the conquest of this complexity, there is a completely different transport era with the characteristics an order of magnitude better than what it is now. Our country differs from the rest in that we only have to conquer the financial component (again), the rest the way before this went Rostislav Alekseev and the collective of his design bureau back in the USSR.