Military Review

You have no questions for Ukraine on MH17? Sergey Lavrov spoke with the Dutch

99
The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Sergey Lavrov, held a meeting with his Dutch counterpart, Steph Blok. During the meeting, the issue of the crash of an airliner flying on the MH17 flight from the Netherlands to Malaysia was also raised. The plane was shot down in the summer of 2014; the investigation by the Dutch Commission is still ongoing.


Sergey Lavrov noted that even after almost 4, since the moment of the terrible tragedy, Ukraine did not answer a number of questions that arose immediately after the fall of the wreckage of the airliner near the village of Grabovo. At the same time, the Russian Foreign Minister is surprised that the investigation team does not ask Ukraine any questions.

TASS quotes the head of the Foreign Ministry of Russia:
The Joint Investigation Team has no questions, for example, to Ukraine and about its contribution to the investigation. Although, until now, none of the Ukrainian dispatchers, who were on duty on that day, were questioned, Ukrainian radar surveillance data was not obtained by the investigators.


You have no questions for Ukraine on MH17? Sergey Lavrov spoke with the Dutch


According to Sergey Lavrov, the problems with the investigation are obvious. No information on the work of the investigative team is published, although there is a UN Security Council resolution 2016, which spells out the need for investigators to report on how investigative actions are progressing, and what conclusions were made at a particular stage.

Recall that Ukraine has not yet provided data on the location of air defense systems in the area from which the passenger airliner was supposedly hit. Ukraine is also silent about why the course of the aircraft at the last moment was changed in such a way that it ran directly over the area of ​​the most intense military operations, which in itself contradicts all standards for servicing passenger flights aviation.
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  1. 210ox
    210ox April 13 2018 15: 26
    +9
    What may be the loss questions? You cannot ask them, because it is fraught with a kick from overseas.
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov April 13 2018 15: 27
      +7
      Everything went to this ... We will find out when we will take Kiev!
      1. Serge Gorely
        Serge Gorely April 13 2018 15: 31
        +18
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Everything went to this ... We will find out when we will take Kiev!

        Do we need it? Beggars to revive ....
        1. Vitaly Anisimov
          Vitaly Anisimov April 13 2018 16: 50
          +2
          Quote: Serge Gorely
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Everything went to this ... We will find out when we will take Kiev!

          Do we need it? Beggars to revive ....

          Nobody is going to revive them (they all collapsed, that they built the USSR for them all) ..
          But it is necessary to restrain oneself and ask .. We do not need a walk-field at the borders ..!
          Wanted to be "farmers", let them be, under our control! negative soldier
          1. bulvas
            bulvas April 19 2018 09: 28
            0
            Sergey Lavrov met with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok. During the meeting, the issue of the crash of an airliner flying on flight MH17 was also raised:

            Although so far not a single Ukrainian dispatcher who was on duty that day has been questioned, Ukrainian data from radar surveillance have not been received by investigators.


            And what about a Dutch colleague?
            He did not answer or forgot to write?
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ April 13 2018 15: 34
        +1
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Find out

        MishGan, what do you want to know there?
        everyone knows everything.
        1. 210ox
          210ox April 13 2018 15: 41
          +2
          What will we learn? I’ll try to develop an idea ... Well, probably after the military tribunal we will learn a lot of interesting things about this clique .. "Potroshenko, pastor and co"
          Quote: NEOZ
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Find out

          MishGan, what do you want to know there?
          everyone knows everything.
        2. Vitaly Anisimov
          Vitaly Anisimov April 13 2018 15: 46
          +1
          Quote: NEOZ
          MishGan, what do you want to know there?

          It is an insult..? Rude ..
          Well, for example, correspondence with the CIA and the State Department .. With our liberals, etc. More account numbers and access to them .. Continue?
          1. NEOZ
            NEOZ April 13 2018 16: 09
            +1
            what is rude?
            I think our liberals did not participate, the pale is too big ...
            which account numbers? access to which accounts?
            what correspondence?
            such:
            " top secret
            Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Fool D.D.
            from the chief of the General Staff of the USA and P.P.
            order
            due to the choking of the offensive of the Armed Forces on the fronts of the LDNR and the prevention of the counteroffensive of the LDNR with the unification of the LDNR fronts
            I ask you to conduct a special operation to destroy the passenger ship of the govnostrana (to minimize claims) with passengers from Europe (satellites, and sanctions against the Russian Federation must be imposed) between the LDNR fronts, as well as create an SD in the area of ​​the settlement of Debaltseve to counter the unification of the fronts.
            conduct an information attack on the Russian Federation
            etc.

            the main podnik such "
      3. private person
        private person April 13 2018 15: 57
        +2
        K = MIKHAN] Everything went to this ... We will find out when we will take Kiev! [/ Quote]
        Where are you going to take Kiev?
      4. master2
        master2 April 14 2018 23: 17
        0
        There is such a head of the DPR Zakharchenko, so he took Kiev 3 times in his tongue, he took London and now on his way to Paris, that's how you are.
    2. Vend
      Vend April 13 2018 16: 02
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      What may be the loss questions? You cannot ask them, because it is fraught with a kick from overseas.

      Right now and ask. USA and Britain back up in Syria. Until you come to your senses, you need to squeeze on other fronts.
      1. master2
        master2 April 14 2018 23: 18
        0
        100 "axes" is the reverse of your opinion?
        1. Vend
          Vend April 16 2018 09: 09
          0
          Quote: master2
          100 "axes" is the reverse of your opinion?

          I didn’t drink at the Brudershaft, I have nothing to poke. Something overlooked in the analysis of the multi-path. Apparently it was necessary to disgrace the United States, more than to ban attacks on Syria. Such a bunch of missiles, and against them the Soviet air defense. Apparently it was necessary that at least part of the missiles broke through to the objects of impact.
  2. Kerensky
    Kerensky April 13 2018 15: 31
    0
    Although, so far not a single Ukrainian dispatcher who was on duty that day has been questioned,

    Not a fact, but ... There would be to say - what kind of vegetable ?!
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell April 14 2018 00: 34
      +1
      Quote: Kerensky
      Not a fact, but

      Sorry that is not a fact. There, a Ukrainian journalist has been looking for this dispatcher for three years, and cannot find it. She was sent on vacation the next day ?? Probably they will not find it already, neither her nor her husband
      1. Kerensky
        Kerensky April 16 2018 07: 35
        0
        There, a Ukrainian journalist has been looking for this dispatcher for three years, and cannot find it. She was sent on vacation the next day ??

        Forgive me for being late (I was, so to speak, excommunicated from the vastness of the network), but nonetheless ....
        Any dispatcher action is committed. In a non-standard train, even a controller with a DVR on his chest walks, and then ... In the bank, in order to remove some 50.000, you need the approval of the second operator .... Who and how made the decision can be found on the pile of cards. But where are they?
  3. forester
    forester April 13 2018 15: 31
    +6
    It would be time for us to state how we have one hundred percent evidence that the Ukrainians were shot down by order of the Americans, but they are secret. And directly declare - the banderlogs and mattresses are to blame
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 13 2018 15: 36
      +2
      Quote: forester
      And directly

      so we said so.
      1. Sam_gosling
        Sam_gosling April 13 2018 15: 45
        +2
        Either the rocket from the plane, then the corpses are not fresh, then in general it is 200 Blackwater mercenaries. Probably need to decide ...
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 13 2018 19: 16
          +1
          Quote: Sam_gosling
          I need to decide

          you read the initial post? there is nothing about the version, there is about the guilty ....
  4. Vita vko
    Vita vko April 13 2018 15: 31
    +3
    [media=<iframe%20width=854%20height=480%20src=
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/dzeFFCBDt-w%20frame
    border = 0% 20allow = autoplay;% 20encrypted-media% 20al
    lowfullscreen> ] It is strange that so far Russia has not voiced the real reasons for the terrorist act against the civilian MH-17 aircraft. It is foolish to think that the death of hundreds of foreign citizens could be beneficial to Russia or Ukraine. At the same time, any specialist who understands radar information should immediately pay attention to those aircraft that were next to the MH-17 board. But literally 5 km and 600 m higher, another civilian board was flying, about which everyone is silent. By all trajectory signs, with a 90% probability it was an Il-96 aircraft operated by a special squadron Russia. Who he could carry will become clear if we analyze the visits of President Putin during this period. It was for him that Ukrainian terrorists were hunted under the leadership of the US CIA. But the Russian side, despite the high speed, lagged slightly behind and went higher. Therefore, the operator of the BUK air defense missile system captured a target closer to the Russian border; it is very easy to make a mistake when working autonomously without an automated control system. But the hunt was really for the President of Russia, and if it had succeeded, then for 4 years already the whole of Ukraine, and possibly Europe, was dragged into a real war with Russia, which is what the United States wanted.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 13 2018 15: 44
      +5
      Quote: Vita VKO
      real reasons

      This version does not stand up to criticism ...
      GDP flew across Belarus that day.
      read the report on MH17, everything is there on the shelves.
      I remember then, not long before MH17, Ukraine claims that the militia shot down the AN30 from 6000m .... and Strelkov said that they did not shoot down and the reasons for the fall of the AN30 were not known to him.
      I still thought: - why does he say that? why not say they shot down? even if they didn’t shoot down, let them think that the militia has normal air defense!
      after MH17 everything fell into place ....
      1. victor50
        victor50 April 13 2018 16: 08
        +5
        Question 1: Why did the militia need to shoot down an airplane? That in any case he was hanged on them and Russia? They could have shot down by mistake, without malicious intent.
        Question 2: Ukraine claims to know that militias have beeches. you even indicated that you accused the militias of the downing of the AN-30. Why didn’t it forbid civilian flights? In any case, this is reason No. 1.
        Question 3: Could Ukraine bring down? Could! In order to have to write and discuss this, it is to blame Russia. But if she is, then it is no longer accidental. And if so, then who are the animals and cattle?
        1. Semen1972
          Semen1972 April 13 2018 16: 33
          +1
          Quote: victor50
          They could have shot down by mistake, without malicious intent.

          And why not on purpose, to show which animals in Kiev?
          But the version with the error is the most probable. And who exactly is not important at all. To pretend that Russia has nothing to do with the Donbass can only the most stubborn kiselovschiki and nightingale. If it weren’t for Russia, the Donbass would have been completely cleaned up ... it’s decent for the guys to prevent this from happening ... although they didn’t start living better in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions ... the blood is in vain.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE April 13 2018 20: 39
            0
            The most probable, but the Ukrainian Su-25 pilot could only “make a mistake" because only he could make out the MN-17 paint, very similar to the coloring of an airplane from a Russian government squadron.
            And then shooting the aircraft from a cannon and missiles, and possibly calling for fire from the ground with Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk, who were in this place at the exercises (although no one saw traces of air defense missiles, and the launch site from the territory controlled by LDNR turned out to be an ordinary fire, about which the Russian BBS service quickly deleted its report).
            But the Su-25 definitely hit the Russian radar, and its gun leaves similar holes.
      2. Semen1972
        Semen1972 April 13 2018 16: 28
        +1
        Quote: NEOZ
        I remember then, not long before MH17, Ukraine claims that the militia shot down the AN30 from 6000m .... and Strelkov said that they did not shoot down and the reasons for the fall of the AN30 were not known to him.

        Yes, they didn’t shoot anything, and Ukraine banned all flights of aviation ... In fact for today: If you are a cheer patriot, then they shot down Ukrainians and helped the United States and the whole world against Russians, if you are not a cheer patriot, and do not watch TV " show "- then the question remains open, if the Westerner, then Putin definitely shot down.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 13 2018 19: 14
          0
          Quote: Semen1972
          Yes, they didn’t shoot anything down

          what are you talking about?
          Quote: Semen1972
          In fact for today: If you

          this is just not in fact !!! facts indicate the downing of MH17 intentionally, by the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
          1. Semen1972
            Semen1972 April 16 2018 09: 32
            0
            Quote: NEOZ
            this is just not in fact !!! facts indicate the downing of MH17 intentionally, by the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

            BUK Strelkova why sweep?
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ April 16 2018 11: 00
              0
              Quote: Semen1972
              BUK Strelkova

              Strelkov had no beech; not a single APU plane was shot down from beech !!!!
              MH17 fell exactly between the fronts of LDNR at the time of the flooding of the APU offensive and before the adoption of EU sanctions.
              MH17 Malaysian plane, Malaysia is a small country voice that no one will hear.
              US intelligence satellite hung over the crash site.
              only thanks to the MH17 APU were able to gain a foothold in Debaltseve.
              real profit from MH17 was received by the USA and Ukraine .....
    2. Orionvit
      Orionvit April 13 2018 16: 12
      0
      Quote: Vita VKO
      It is strange that so far Russia has not voiced the real reasons for the terrorist attack against the civilian aircraft MN-17

      For a long time, everything has already been voiced. But knocking on closed doors and talking to the deaf is an absolutely useless activity.
    3. dzvero
      dzvero April 13 2018 17: 45
      0
      Board N1 flew from Brazil; the route ran through western Europe, Poland and Belarus. The "hook" over the Donbass is absolutely illogical. On the other hand, MH17 flew along the route established at that time from Europe to the Far East. By the way, a similar version flashed on the Internet, but in a slightly different way. From memory - the MH17 course intersected over Warsaw with board N1; there was an idea to organize a collision in the air - such as an accident. Something did not work out there, although the board took off late. Then they implemented plan B - sent to kill over the Donbass. It was necessary to bring down at any cost, because over Russian territory they could be forced to plant and open a terrorist attack. Therefore, the Ukrainians used rockets and planes, for sure. Of course, there was an alternative - to land in Kiev or somewhere else "for technical reasons" and then continue flying over neutral waters ... but it is not interesting.
      Of course, everything smells like a mother of conspiracy theology, but the GDP did not appear to the public four or five days after returning from Brazil ...
      PMSM provocation against GDP most likely took place to be, but what is really happening, we are unlikely to find out ...
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE April 13 2018 20: 52
        0
        He could have completely illogical for you to change your mind and fly to Sochi, the local shanny zbroynye drinks about the plans and routes of the Russian first person. They saw a similar plane in the air - rejoiced and shot down.
  5. BAI
    BAI April 13 2018 15: 31
    +6
    Why investigate? Obama called guilty when the plane still did not have time to fall.
    1. Semen1972
      Semen1972 April 13 2018 16: 24
      0
      Quote: BAI
      Why investigate? Obama called guilty when the plane still did not have time to fall.

      Can I link to this information ????
  6. bk316
    bk316 April 13 2018 15: 34
    +4
    Yes there is of course BUT SCARY TO ASK .... Uncle Sam spanks
  7. Heterocapsa
    Heterocapsa April 13 2018 15: 35
    +3
    the Dutch are deeply under the United States. too tightly all sit under the Americans. Therefore, as long as they dominate, no international law will be respected.
    1. vasya.pupkin
      vasya.pupkin April 13 2018 18: 00
      +2
      Quote: Heterocapsa
      the Dutch are deeply under the United States. too tightly all sit under the Americans. Therefore, as long as they dominate, no international law will be respected.

      Holland is the only country in Europe in modern history that received its national gold reserve from mattresses / moreover, a week after the downed Boeing /, therefore it is impossible to consider her report at face value! Report customized and paid.
  8. Mimohod
    Mimohod April 13 2018 15: 37
    +3
    The plane was shot down in the summer of 2014; investigation by the Dutch commission is still ongoing.
    All the fried facts of the West in recent years, first brazenly and provocatively exposed on the world and then sunk into a sea of ​​lies ....., the Anglo-Saxons and their European sixes are historically nations of liars ..., the burnt Reichstag, the radio station in Gleivice, the Tonkin incident, the strike on skyscrapers in 2001 and so on and so forth ....
  9. Apollo
    Apollo April 13 2018 15: 42
    +1
    If so, why has the Russian Federation never, on its own initiative, convened a UN Security Council on the progress of the investigation?
    1. Semen1972
      Semen1972 April 13 2018 16: 23
      +1
      And what, will punish Strelkova? But how can we not let our people go?
      1. vasya.pupkin
        vasya.pupkin April 13 2018 18: 03
        +2
        Quote: Semen1972
        And what, will punish Strelkova? But how can we not let our people go?

        So Sema, do you unconditionally believe that the downed Boeing is the work of "militias"?
        It seems, Sema, that your tip is cut off ...
        1. Semen1972
          Semen1972 April 17 2018 16: 21
          0
          Quote: vasya.pupkin
          It seems, Sema, that your tip is cut off ...

          I can show my tip if this topic is so interesting to you.
          Excuse me, are you an adherent of faith in honest Putin? Do I understand correctly that someone and Russia will never lie !!!! Strange, but I live here and every day I see bureaucrats and not only those who lie, they will take inexpensively .. and here they criticize everyone and everything from the Kremlin to the outskirts ... and suddenly they believe .. how so ... not accustomed to trust simply by the principle of friend or foe
          1. vasya.pupkin
            vasya.pupkin April 17 2018 19: 50
            0
            In our country, to V.V.P. there are big claims / my miner's pension is 5,6 thousand, and my wife with the highest image is 2,3 tons ./, but, as V.S. Vysotsky said, I will not discuss this with you, because. you are the ENEMY!
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 13 2018 20: 55
      0
      This is really a question. Seems like it's time.
  10. Sewer krainiy
    Sewer krainiy April 13 2018 15: 42
    +1
    As highly informed comrades said in 2014, Russia has a joker in its sleeve. The war was on in Ukraine, satellites hung over the territory, electronic reconnaissance from the territory of the Russian Federation worked ... These instantly blurted out about the culprits - they were slightly opened with information, then continued - they were given a little more, and a little more. And silence ... The joker is in Russia, and they know it. My opinion, they creaked - the same scenario. Wait and see ...
    1. Pathos
      Pathos April 13 2018 22: 13
      0
      All former Pvoshniks unanimously said they shot down the PERSONS from one launcher of such a boar; etc. and etc hi and as far as I remember they don’t shoot at one target, they shoot at 2 for sure, but here it’s at least strange wink
      1. lance
        lance April 14 2018 04: 30
        0
        high-altitude 8-10km, non-shunting overall subsonic, poorly you know 1m beech. for this purpose, he does not need backlighting - the crew of one car does everything. but the plane changed course and went right under it
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 05: 11
          0
          the fact that he was sent directly under him does not mean that Buk would have fired, the target was clearly civilian, or to an extreme transporter.
          1. lance
            lance April 14 2018 05: 40
            0
            You left the question, why was it taken out of the existing and previously agreed safe corridor ?, for what?
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 06: 05
              0
              and he was not for me
              in order to provoke the start-up of Buk of the militia, or immediately bring down the Su-25 ourselves and then present the case as they presented it through the media
  11. K-50
    K-50 April 13 2018 15: 44
    0
    The Joint Investigative Group does not have any questions for Ukraine

    What questions can be asked for Urquain, even if it’s the latest baby, even from Zimbabwe. knows that Russia is to blame. what
    Even if an asteroid collapses on Earth, Russia will again be to blame. yes
  12. Semen1972
    Semen1972 April 13 2018 15: 44
    +1
    Let Lavrov ask Strelkov about BEECH.
    1. lance
      lance April 14 2018 04: 37
      +2
      hear stubborn, ask the dispatchers of Ukraine - why it was necessary to change the generally accepted international corridor with a deviation into the conflict zone. shooters gave them a command?
  13. askort154
    askort154 April 13 2018 15: 45
    0
    They are waiting for a change of power in Ukraine. Then the CIA will give the command to hang everything on the departed. So, another year the commission will continue to "work." They will also be hung on fire in Odessa, and much more. So, Poroshenko is waiting for a fun "retirement", or an early wooden "mac."
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 13 2018 21: 00
      0
      Nothing expects him, he himself long bowed to the flag of Australia, and the pilot of the Su-25 who "made a mistake" has already been buried, and they will try to make him extreme.
  14. barclay
    barclay April 13 2018 15: 48
    +1
    Despite the fact that we are not going to let us in with the investigation on this topic, Lavrov correctly raises the issue at the international level. Everyone, and above all the "junta", should know that we will not forget this and just will not leave it.
  15. NF68
    NF68 April 13 2018 16: 04
    +3
    WMDs are still being sought in Iraq. And nothing. All "progressive" humanity is waiting for the desired.
  16. Ingvar0401
    Ingvar0401 April 13 2018 16: 07
    +1
    Quote: forester
    It would be time for us to state how we have one hundred percent evidence that the Ukrainians were shot down by order of the Americans, but they are secret. And directly declare - the banderlogs and mattresses are to blame

    I agree. Why do not we use their proven methodology? Type - "this information is secret", "it is likely that it did the APU", etc ....
  17. Evil 55
    Evil 55 April 13 2018 16: 09
    0
    In Kuev, everything is in Kuev .. Everyone knows perfectly well, but the collective solidarity of the “brothers in the flag” makes it difficult to speak frankly .. ps The flag is rainbow-colored ..
  18. Apollo
    Apollo April 13 2018 16: 23
    0
    It would be time for us to state how we have one hundred percent evidence that the Ukrainians were shot down by order of the Americans, but they are secret. And directly declare - the banderlogs and mattresses are to blame


    I agree. Why do not we use their proven methodology? Type - "this information is secret", "it is likely that it did the APU", etc ....

    This is exactly the case where the leader of the state requires wisdom, courage and political will. But they are NOT ...
  19. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov April 13 2018 16: 30
    0
    Moscow, March 19 - AIF-Moscow.
    In Ukraine, a former pilot, Vladislav Voloshin, who was suspected of involvement in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing 777 in the summer of 2014 in eastern Ukraine, committed suicide. About it writes RIA Novosti with reference to the statement of the national police of the Nikolaev region.

    Already no one will know anything officially .. Only if we take Valtsman prisoner!
  20. Piramidon
    Piramidon April 13 2018 16: 40
    +4
    so far not a single Ukrainian dispatcher who was on duty that day has been questioned

    Well, if only to exhume and interrogate. These controllers have long been 2 meters below the level of surrounding soil. IMHO.
    By the way, the Poles have a lot of experience in this matter. Kaczynski is constantly dug up, dug.
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov April 13 2018 16: 53
      0
      Quote: Piramidon
      By the way, the Poles have a lot of experience in this matter. Kaczynski is constantly dug up, dug.

      laughing wassat Well, laughed .. Thanks! good Straight to tears .. heh heh
    2. Pathos
      Pathos April 13 2018 22: 25
      +1
      good laughing from a joke: here yesterday the tax chief was buried 3 times in an encore laughing
  21. afrikanez
    afrikanez April 13 2018 16: 55
    0
    It is high time not to ask questions but to bring charges. How much more can any kind of investigation be done?
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon April 13 2018 19: 28
      0
      Quote: afrikanez
      It is high time not to ask questions but to bring charges. How much more can any kind of investigation be done?

      Do not be so naive. What charges are to whom and to whom? Again in all sorts of The Hague, OSCE, ECHR, or what? Everything was decided there long ago and the “culprits” were appointed even before the plane crashed.
  22. Antares
    Antares April 13 2018 19: 38
    +1
    The Joint Investigation Team has no questions, for example, to Ukraine and about its contribution to the investigation. Although, until now, none of the Ukrainian dispatchers, who were on duty on that day, were questioned, Ukrainian radar surveillance data was not obtained by the investigators.

    chopped Lavrov ...
    The Dnieper dispatcher led him for 12 minutes. Her 21 words are recorded in the commission report, confirmed by black boxes.

    The meaning of interrogating the Dnieper dispatchers is the same as the meaning of interrogating the Rostov dispatchers.
    Ukraine transferred all the rights to Holland and provided everything that the commission demanded.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell April 14 2018 00: 43
      +2
      Quote: Antares
      The meaning of interrogating the Dnieper dispatchers

      Well, actually this practice is to interrogate those involved in the accident. As you know, the dispatcher is not the last person, which is probably why they can’t find it.
    2. lance
      lance April 14 2018 04: 46
      +3
      Where in the presented paper is the requirement of the dispatcher, ladies, to change the route from the international corridor? ours did a lot of stupidity by not opening the black boxes in their presence in the presence of all interested persons (as with Polish tu154). then it would not be necessary to insist on reconciling the time about the crash report in the media and the time of the explosion of the aircraft in these boxes.
  23. Romanenko
    Romanenko April 13 2018 19: 48
    0
    So the Dutch might have asked, but "from there" they did not order to ask questions. Comics are sent from time to time and asked to be published instead of the results of the commission.
    What to do, in our time, independent spread rot, and dependent .... too, but not painful, already used.
  24. shirkoled
    shirkoled April 13 2018 20: 11
    0
    Golantsy bend under the Yankees !!!
  25. bone1
    bone1 April 13 2018 20: 14
    0
    What is he surprised at? A custom-made "investigation", with a well-known culprit. fellow
  26. geniy
    geniy April 13 2018 20: 17
    +4
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Already no one will know anything officially .. Only if we take Valtsman prisoner!

    You are mistaken. Boeing, of course, was shot down by pilot Voloshin. But despite the fact that he shot himself, quite a lot of people in Ukraine knew about his crime.
    Firstly: in each aircraft - and especially a combat aircraft, there is not one, but several "black" boxes. And one of them captures all the flight information, as well as the use of weapons of this aircraft. That is, as soon as Voloshin returned to the airfield and said that “the plane was in the wrong place”, he was not only questioned by the SBU, but all the flight information was seized as he shot the Boeing. In addition: many Ukrainian dispatchers on the screens of the locators observed the approach of the Voloshin plane with the Boeing and the subsequent crash of the liner. But I mean not only a civil air traffic controller, but also military radar operators. And by the way, a record of the whole air situation is certainly going from each locator. Yes, a lot more.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 13 2018 21: 04
      0
      Of course the pilot, but whether Voloshin is unknown.
  27. shuravi
    shuravi April 13 2018 22: 34
    +3


    Assumption of a Boeing shot down over Ukraine


    Total, what for today? There are three versions:
    1. Shot down by the Buk air defense system of the militia.
    2. Shot down by the Buk air defense system of the Ukrainian army.
    3. Shot down by Ukrainian Su-25.
    Actually, the first version can be safely combined with the second. For the simple reason that no matter who the ill-fated Buk was, official Ukraine would have blamed everything on the militia for anyone. What is she actually doing now.
    I’m just repeating that if there was a Buk, that’s all, no shelling, no delay. Ukrainian and Western experts immediately at the scene of the disaster, rocket fragments found and presented. And then “gifts” to whom sanctions, to whom military assistance.
    After all, it’s stupid to think that if the Ukrainian side planned such an destruction of the plane, it would undoubtedly take care of how to put up the militia much more competently, and not drag out the rubber for how much time. Moreover, qualitatively, and not the wretched impromptu that takes place. Since blaming the militia and indirectly Russia, this is an impromptu.
    Without going around for a long time, looking at such strange (from the point of view of the catastrophe investigation) acts of official Ukraine and its patrons, we can say that there was force majeure. Moreover, not because a civilian plane was accidentally shot down, since it is impossible to accidentally bring down a civilian car on a theater where the opposing side does not have aviation at all. The fact is that they shot down a civilian plane intentionally, but the trouble is, not as much as I wanted.
    It is clear that this crime was planned to be hung on Russia (they continue to try to hang it now) and its plan is quite obvious, because it is simple and reliable (well, then it seemed that it was safe):

    - Knowing the route of a civilian plane, raise Su-25 in advance, and bring it to a predetermined height at point A. Not a difficult task as a whole.
    - When a civilian plane is at point B, bring both aircraft at point C. Also not with Newton’s bin, which is for the pilot, which is for the point of guidance. Moreover, civilian dispatchers also helped, corrected the flight of the target.
    - Su-25, launches the P-60 and destroys one of the engines. What is not fatal for a Boeing-777, it can fly on one engine, but not so fast and high (because no one will force the remaining engine to be increased by the increased regime), which was actually planned.
    - Having lost the speed and altitude of the Boeing 777, the Su-25 is already an easy target, it remains only to wait when he tries to reach Rostov (and where else can he go?) Crosses the Ukrainian-Russian border and finish him off the cannon.

    Are there any weaknesses in this regard? No, except for one, but about him after. Other objections are easily dismissed:

    - First, in the event of engine damage, the passenger crew should have been amused. No objection. Only what could he care about? 99,9-9% of engine failure. Firstly, civilian pilots are already accustomed to it, any failure in the operation of equipment as a refusal to perceive, secondly, you can figure it out without leaving the cabin, what’s there, a missile hit, or fatigue destruction of a turbine. And even if we allow the incredible, the crew reported combat damage, then the border, here it is, is nearby. While sorted and crossed.
    - Secondly, Russian air defense is shot down by a flown Ukrainian Su-25. So this is a gift for official Ukraine. Eyes will be modestly lowered and say, “Well, yes, he flew in.” What to do, we have ATO, and pilots have little experience. So he behaved modestly, didn’t attack any targets, and you and his Boin-777 in distress at the same time attacked him.
    And the choice of the Su-25 aircraft in this case is ideal, since its presence is easy to explain. But popping into Russian territory to Ukrainian fighters would be fraught. In principle, they could insure, launch the P-60, but why? Su-25 and himself with a subsonic non-maneuverable goal to perfectly cope, why shine fighters on a crime. And surely there was a safety net, but from the same Su-25.
    - Third, the wreckage, registrars are available to Russian experts. So what? Few examples of double vision of Western representatives? Remember Smolensk, still looking for malicious intent. In short, how can Russian experts not refine there, but they will not see the defeat of the engine by the P-60 rocket. As did not see and do not see the projectiles flying from the Ukrainian side. But the holes from the gun will certainly see. After all, these are the Russian Tunguska, Carapace air defense systems, Su-27, MiG-29 aircraft. In addition, the P-60 is armed with aircraft.
    As for the registrars, or do not care about all international rights, pass the boxes to the "international" commission, or you falsified all the data.
    - Fourth, now a weak spot. Interception at intersecting courses is good, it allows you to attack targets even surpassing the interceptor in speed, and the interceptor in the case of a catch-up intersecting course has enough time to recognize-aim-attack. Yes, the trouble is, in this case, one of the engines and the cockpit on the same line of sight are. And P-60 does not guarantee 100% hit and what happened was not taken into account, the rocket not only missed the engine, but also managed to get into the cockpit (or as an option, the warhead worked normally, but the rocket wreckage, including its engine hit the cockpit).
    Such cases have already occurred more than once when missiles with infrared seekers missed the engine but still fell into an airplane / helicopter.
    This, by the way, explains the reason for the silence of the crew. Explosion warhead, plus depressurization, no chance for the crew to survive.
    Having lost control, the plane went into uncontrollable flight, fell apart and crashed. The fact that passenger planes can fall apart is a fact. A sufficient example, as in the 2004 year, the 300th Airbus crashed due to vigorous pedal work, which caused the tail to fall off.
    The fact that they found traces on the wreckage similar to the hits of 30 mm shells is also not surprising. It is likely that the attack aircraft pilot saw that the situation was not calculated, got nervous and tried to act according to the original plan. And he fired at an already falling plane from a cannon.

    Fans of "pulling an owl on the globe", that is, braiding the mythical supply of a lone self-propelled gun "Buk" from the Russian Federation, before embarking on a polemic, answer - But what is the Buk complex designed for?
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 05: 16
      +1
      the deliberate choice of the Su-25 is still ideal in that they usually do not have an avionics identifying and prohibiting launch for a civilian air target, all Buk air defense systems, MiG-29 and Su-27 aircraft have such equipment.
      1. lance
        lance April 14 2018 05: 47
        0
        from what year? These systems in Russia are no longer in use. does not have a beech 1m nor any breo in the USSR this did not matter.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 06: 07
          0
          from a very long time ago, in the USSR this was all done after a series of incidents near the landfills.
          it has long been even at MANPADS yes
          but to shoot from the Su-25 cannon - please, he’s, as it were, an attack aircraft.
          1. lance
            lance April 14 2018 06: 30
            0
            I say again, there was no breo in the USSR in the form of your statement. there was a warning system — alien — first installed for a moment — 25. when pointing at an object and receiving radiation from it, the trigger did not work, that’s all.
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 07: 04
              0
              these are two different systems laughing You can speak as much as you like to those who saw
              friend or foe was well, long before the MiG-25
              1. lance
                lance April 14 2018 07: 35
                0
                and how old are you, since you came to me, and what did you fly on?
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 07: 52
                  0
                  enough laughing
                  on the MiG-17 the usual "friend or foe" was still there, the civil system is even simpler than it.
                  but about the limiters on MANPADS and on Buki googled even in color.
                  1. lance
                    lance April 14 2018 07: 54
                    0
                    data to the studio, for a moment -17 I started
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 08: 10
                      0
                      MiG-17 version of the missile defense interceptor? then they should have known.
                      the British started back in WWII, the studio there.
                      1. lance
                        lance April 14 2018 08: 24
                        0
                        Mig-17 production s1951g, the first serial of his alien silicon-2 1955 removed after 2 years and so on. it was from the instant 25 that encryptors with a million value appeared that could not be decrypted and then spread to air defense. but I was interested in the first breo on staff members?
                      2. lance
                        lance April 14 2018 08: 44
                        0
                        once again looked at the password recognition radar system installed on the beech 1. there is no civil aviation recognition there
                    2. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 14: 54
                      0
                      removed and exchanged for another
                      the civilian system, separate from the military, appeared with the opening of regular international aviation communications through Soviet airspace.
                      if this fuse was not on the military Buk-1 at first, this does not mean that it was not added later, especially since it has been on portable MANPADS
                      1. lance
                        lance April 14 2018 18: 02
                        0
                        he is but a 2m beech. everyone disagreed
                    3. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE April 14 2018 20: 41
                      0
                      Now it is in any MANPADS, it can be connected anywhere, even in the same Buk M-1, and you can turn it off
                      in the Su-25 was navryatli, it is not intended to protect the air border. for that reason, he flew up, saw, shot "at the cursed main aggressor". they will also be awarded posthumously, and they will apologize to the families of the killed civilians with material compensation: a hectare of Ukrainian black soil (not your own - it’s not a pity), and villas in Crimea (the same).
    2. geniy
      geniy April 14 2018 22: 58
      +1
      You have so much rubbish in your assumptions that you have to refute you so that other readers can clearly. First, you can’t explain in any way the most important circumstance that in fact the initial phase of the execution of the Boeing began long before it approached the front line. That is, approximately as much as 100 kilometers to the front line. And this is only under the assumptions of stupid laymans that a downed plane flies in a straight line - in fact, it can fall along any trajectory - for example, in a spiral, or a vertical peak, or falling and simultaneously spinning in a tailspin, or turn left or right. That is, if they started to shoot him down a hundred kilometers from the point of impact, then only a round one could plan this provocation that the shot Boeing would fly further in a straight line a hundred kilometers and fall a little by dragging the front line on the territory of the militias. But if he fell at a peak or in a tailspin right at the point of the first shelling - on the territory of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - a hundred kilometers from the militias, then it would have become clear to the whole world that he was shot down by Ukrainian troops.
      And confirmation that the first shelling began over 100 km was published immediately - on the second day after the disaster - July 18. That's just all the sheep have forgotten about it. But I remind you: This was published by journalist Yuri Mukhin:
      “So, on July 18, the day after the incident, Vesti.ru, according to officials in the Russian Ministry of Defense, said:
      The Boeing defendant stopped working between the settlements of Mazanovka and Ivanovka 20 kilometers northwest of Slavyansk. 63 km from this place, to the territory occupied by militias ...
      At first there is bewilderment: what is crazy in the Ministry of Defense? Indeed, between Mazanovka, over which the Boeing was allegedly shot down, and Snezhnoy, around which its wreckage lies, almost 150 km !. "
      You can read about the fact that this is true by following the link:
      The Boeing defendant stopped working between the settlements of Mazanovka and Ivanovka. 20 kilometers northwest of Slavyansk. From this place to the territory occupied by militias - 63 kilometers.
      Yuri Mukhin: “It would seem that the logical question is - how then, when a plane was shot down, it could fly about another hundred kilometers. If after a missile hit it did not collapse immediately in the air, then it could plan even with the engines turned off. There is such a parameter as dynamic quality. At "Boeing 777" it is approximately 15-17. This means that from a height of 10 kilometers, he can plan a distance of 150-170 kilometers ... "
      1. lance
        lance April 15 2018 05: 15
        0
        and where is the evidence base for all this? again in black boxes? or satellite imagery? none of the witnesses speaks of a train behind a crashed plane, which should when one engine exits, the fragmentation of the rocket 90% fell on the side of the cockpit and experts from the Netherlands talk about the wreckage of which rocket (even if confused by the numbers, it’s still easy to distinguish between the airplane’s missiles and the air defense missile)
      2. Mikhail old
        Mikhail old April 17 2018 08: 05
        +1
        Plan laden and without without wings? This is something new in aerodynamics.
        1. geniy
          geniy April 19 2018 10: 36
          +1
          Mikhail old people April 17, 2018 08:05 ↑
          Plan laden and without without wings? This is something new in aerodynamics.

          I will answer you. First: the planning version is not mine at all, but the journalist Yuri Mukhin. And personally, I guess that it was actually even cooler: that is, the pilot Voloshin in the first stage of the attack on the Boeing shot him aiming at the cockpit, and immediately killed them, so the Boeing 777 then flew a hundred kilometers with dead pilots under the control of an autopilot. But since Voloshin shot at the pilots, and not at the engines, there was no planning at all - because the engines developed traction and carried an airliner at a flight level of about 10 kilometers. That is, about a hundred kilometers, there was no decrease or fall of the Boeing at all. But Mukhin’s assumption is erroneous, because if the airliner planned one hundred kilometers, then it would at the same time be reduced almost to the ground .. But the Boeing’s final fall occurred from the top of the train! So Mukhin is wrong in this assumption.
  28. Amateur
    Amateur April 14 2018 07: 42
    0
    Well, do not hold them for fools. They all know for a long time, and therefore do not ask the outskirts of questions. Take a look at flightradar24.com. There are no questions, but planes just in case do not fly.
  29. master2
    master2 April 14 2018 23: 04
    0
    It's a pity Lavrova, a smart man, looks like a clown. Although he paid a lot of money for it. Five minutes of shame and already rich.
  30. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff April 15 2018 00: 22
    +1
    And what will some Dutch say. They are afraid of fire like owners - customers, developers and performers. The customers are the trillionth evil of the planet from London City (square mile) and New York with Washington. Developers - James Klapper (11.09/01.09. - He, like the Korean Boeing over Sakhalin on the night of XNUMX), and John Brennan. Both of them were on the eve and after the disaster both in Kiev and in the Dnieper (instructed, and then led the sweep. The performer is Kolomoisky, who crushed everyone in the Dnieper, including air traffic controllers, pilots and air defense (the deceased now).
    Well, the Dutch and the British want to live. What they are told, they will retell.
    And who
  31. Vladimir K.
    Vladimir K. April 15 2018 00: 28
    +2
    They should be kicked for their own sores - they thought it would be forgotten when the hype with unfounded accusations of Russia subsided. No! Need to raise the question again and again !!! Let them justify themselves now, getting confused in the testimony, like every criminal.
  32. ver_
    ver_ April 19 2018 04: 38
    0
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Quote: Serge Gorely
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Everything went to this ... We will find out when we will take Kiev!

    Do we need it? Beggars to revive ....

    Nobody is going to revive them (they all collapsed, that they built the USSR for them all) ..
    But it is necessary to restrain oneself and ask .. We do not need a walk-field at the borders ..!
    Wanted to be "farmers", let them be, under our control! negative soldier

    ... this is not possible ... Chi Schob clean up the order, everything must be deported by Jews to Israel, or neutralize them, well, as this lyudina decomposes, such a scourge begins - to hell in hell it becomes sickening ...