Military Review

Is China experiencing its own version of the "Dagger"?

45
Edition The Diplomat With reference to an unnamed source in the US administration reports that China has conducted a series of flight tests of the latest rocket. It is noted that we are talking about the secret tests of a ballistic air-launched missile, which the US intelligence calls CH-AS-X-13. At the same time, it is added that the first tests of this newest ammunition by China were conducted in the 2016 year.


Speech, as reported, can go about the "analog" of the Russian rocket "Dagger", the carrier of which is the fighter-interceptor MiG-31. At the same time, in the Chinese case, test rocket launches were carried out with the Xian H6 - a licensed copy of the Soviet Tu-16.

Is China experiencing its own version of the "Dagger"?


In the US, it was stated that the characteristics of the aircraft used for testing suggest that China has a two-stage solid-propellant ballistic missile with a target range of up to 3-x thousand km. So, as stated, the latest Chinese rocket is able to reach the United States. About the speed parameters of the rocket is not reported.

American intelligence believes that CH-AS-X-13 will go into service with the PLA (People’s Liberation Army of China) by 2025. It was added that, in this way, China is becoming the second state in the world that has airballistic missiles with the above parameters in range (in addition to Russia with the Dagger on operational combat duty). In Chinese sources, information about the tests hypersonic aeroballistic rocket is not confirmed.
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  1. Herculesic
    Herculesic April 13 2018 06: 48
    +2
    But have not our ideas and technologists "gone" to the Chinese? Too fast they have recently created many models of new weapons at least resembling our secret weapons.
    1. BAI
      BAI April 13 2018 08: 43
      0
      All they need is long gone.
      1. Tatar 174
        Tatar 174 April 13 2018 08: 59
        +1
        Not from us so from the descendants of the Sumerians. In the current information world, it is very difficult to conceal something, unfortunately.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 April 13 2018 13: 48
          +2
          The Chinese do not have MIG-31. Their bomber will not fulfill the role of the first stage. Therefore, this is not a dagger even once. hi
    2. alexmach
      alexmach April 13 2018 08: 59
      +3
      I mean, quickly, as they seem to have been hypersonic crafts for a long time, according to press reports, there was also a variant of the combat unit for ICBMs a couple of years before Putin's announcement.
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 April 14 2018 17: 20
        0
        The Americans also experienced. So what? bully
        1. alexmach
          alexmach April 14 2018 18: 59
          0
          The fact that everyone is working on this has long been a matter for everyone. The fact that Russia managed to bring something to the stage of testing and experimental duty is of course excellent, but does not mean at all that it is so alone.
  2. andrewkor
    andrewkor April 13 2018 06: 49
    +1
    The old Tu-16 will still serve. A vivid demonstration of the Chinese ability to copy, improve (D-30 engines, electronics, etc.), and gunpowder, paper, silk have remained from their own since those times!
  3. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 April 13 2018 06: 55
    +2
    China has a two-stage rocket, and in our country the carrier is the first stage, accelerating to 3M.
  4. Fedorov
    Fedorov April 13 2018 06: 57
    +5
    The Chinese can only be praised. Although poor shaft, but well done.
    Although about the "dagger" there are big doubts. They can’t copy dviglo for a fighter for 20 years, their hands are not the same, the metal is not the same. And then this type of "breakthrough".
    1. Orionvit
      Orionvit April 13 2018 07: 06
      +4
      Quote: Fedorov
      there are big doubts about the "dagger"

      The fact that they have an analogue, but doubt. But the fact that they are working on it, there can be no doubt. As soon as something worthwhile appears in the world (especially in the field of armaments), China is right there.
      20 years for a fighter cannot be copied
      I’ll tell you, as a specialist, such a complex product as an aircraft engine is simply not possible to copy. It must either be developed from scratch, or buy all the technological documentation. Although you can copy, but it will not be that.
      1. Zubr
        Zubr April 13 2018 07: 34
        +4
        Wow, at one time the Americans tried to copy a dual-circuit turbojet engine here, they did not achieve the declared characteristics.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak April 13 2018 08: 05
      +4
      Quote: Fedorov
      The Chinese can only be praised Although the poor shaft, but well done.


      Medvedev: poverty remains the main problem in the Russian Federation,
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 13 2018 08: 37
        +3
        And the prime minister, with us, is assigned the role of "delighting" the subjects with his sayings ... or did he choose this?
        A cunning monkey, although it sits on a tree, collects a bit by bit, drop by drop, grains of grain, you see, it will be “well-fed” and “dressed”, and it’ll even have a heavy club !!
      2. NordUral
        NordUral April 13 2018 09: 13
        +5
        The main problem of the country is not poverty, but the greed and stupidity of the elite. Without such power, we would not know what poverty is.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 13 2018 11: 02
          +2
          Clearly, the authorities are to blame for everything! But are we so poor, unhappy .... like nothing to do with it?
          Such a power as we \ we did not choose!
        2. Alex777
          Alex777 April 14 2018 17: 24
          +1
          Without such power, we would not know what poverty is.

          What, are you bored with EBN? There was life with him! bully
  5. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch April 13 2018 07: 04
    +4
    What is the version of the "Dagger"? There is practically no data, but already an analogue. From what is written - in the presence of a pipe with gunpowder, it starts with the TU-16, two-stage, high-liliky. It’s become a lot of things in VO like it would be more specific to write, or not to write, while it is not clear.
    1. Fedorov
      Fedorov April 13 2018 07: 51
      +4
      To launch the dagger dagger, you must give Mach 2. Only Tu-22 and MiG -31 are capable of this. Otherwise, it will not work. And the Tu-16 in the Chinese version is complete nonsense.
  6. askort154
    askort154 April 13 2018 07: 06
    +2
    For some reason, our carrier “Dagger” chose exactly the Mig-31 whose speed can exceed 2 M. So, this is an important point for the initial launch speed of the rocket. And H5 (Tu-6) can give a maximum speed of 16 M. Apparently the Chinese are only trying to create something like a “Dagger”.
    1. shinobi
      shinobi April 13 2018 08: 26
      +2
      The reason for choosing the MiG-31 and Tu-22 is not that you need extra speed to start the engine, the dagger is a solid-fuel 9H237 aerial version from the iskander and can be launched from a place, but the possibility of very quick delivery of ammunition for launching from the right line. Plus, the possibility of breaking through enemy air defenses when Necessity. Not every NATO fighter can catch them.
    2. NordUral
      NordUral April 13 2018 09: 17
      0
      The Chinese people are stubborn. Conceived and silently done. And we only have screams - we have developed one, let’s launch it. And so in a circle. We live on the developments of the Union mainly. But this one didn’t hurt the tablecloth. New engineering needs to be raised, not lawyers and hell knows what menager.
  7. Sergey985
    Sergey985 April 13 2018 07: 18
    +6
    Experiencing a rocket. What does the “dagger" have to do with? What, the Chinese announced that they did an analogue? Just a journalist, in search of sensation, wrote. There is nothing to discuss.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral April 13 2018 09: 18
      0
      We all shout about “stupid” Americans, and we ourselves go the same way to these shouts.
  8. LiSiCyn
    LiSiCyn April 13 2018 07: 20
    +1
    Interestingly, our shared?
    By the 25th year? recourse The Chinese, these are riveted, immeasurably ...
  9. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 13 2018 07: 45
    +6
    Well ... the Chinese did not listen to the "critics" with the VO and used the subsonic Tu-16 for their "director" ... fellow And as I proposed for the “Dagger” IL-76, then they began to “paraffin” me so much that it still hurts to remember! crying Now with the “Dagger” there will be some “lull” ... It takes time for “debugging-setting” and comprehension: “But we need this“ knife ”and how to use it? I don’t exclude the possibility of rejection of the“ Dagger ”in the benefit of the improved Zircon is not at all zero ... But if this stage of “debugging-comprehension” is successful for the “Dagger”, then the question will arise of modernizing the ARC, for example, with the aim of increasing the range .... And this can be achieved or using special liquid-propellant rocket engine with gel-like (quasi-liquid) fuel, or using an 2-stage scheme (as with Itayts ...). Here it is the 2-speed “Dagger-2” and will require for itself something larger than the MiG-31 ... It can be either the Tu-160М2 or the IL-76, or from developing aircraft from PAK DA to new transporters ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak April 13 2018 08: 06
      +7
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      And as I proposed IL-76 for the “Dagger,” they began to “paraffin” me that way. It still hurts to remember

      The Chinese avenged you
    2. shinobi
      shinobi April 13 2018 08: 35
      +2
      The Dagger complex is an Iskander aerial version. The 9H237 used is anti-bunker. After the appearance of Zircon in the troops, it will carry out the tasks for which it was originally done. Precise destruction of highly fortified, deepened command posts and silo-based missile defense.
  10. XXXIII
    XXXIII April 13 2018 08: 41
    +2
    American intelligence believes that the CH-AS-X-13 will go into service with the PLA (People's Liberation Army of China) by 2025.


    1. XXXIII
      XXXIII April 13 2018 08: 49
      +1
      Recall that the Polonaise project was developed by the Belarusian industry in cooperation with some Chinese enterprises.

      Rocket M20, shown in Minsk. Photo Kp.by
  11. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn April 13 2018 08: 46
    +1
    Well, why the analogue of the “Dagger"? They simply practiced an air launch for ballistics. Americans have long been practicing with their transporters, the last time officially as a target for testing their missile defense.
    And by the way, that “target” is quite capable of carrying a warhead to itself.
    1. san4es
      san4es April 13 2018 09: 16
      +2
      Quote: g1washntwn
      Well, why the analogue of the “Dagger"? .

      CH-AS-X-13, meanwhile, is a two-stage solid-fuel ballistic missile with a range of 3000 km;

      hi ... Perhaps based on a medium-range ballistic missile DF-21.
      The missile can use lighter composite materials in its glider to reduce the necessary weight for the bomber.
      The H6x1 / H-6N is estimated to have a combat radius of nearly 6000 kilometers - a significant improvement over older versions of the H-6. As a system for delivering nuclear weapons, the CH-AS-X-13 on the H6X1 / H-6N, assuming launching a bomber from the edge of the combat radius, will be able to threaten targets in the United States, Hawaii, and Alaska.

      https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/revealed-chinas-n
      uclear-capable-air-launched-ballistic-missile /
  12. Operator
    Operator April 13 2018 09: 45
    0
    Well done Chinese - for ARC "Dagger" we need to roll out a two-stage version of the "Iskander" like the Soviet RSD "Volga".
  13. Operator
    Operator April 13 2018 09: 55
    +3
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    And as I proposed IL-76 for the “Dagger,” they began to “paraffin” me

    The paraffin is right for you - the MiG-31 is in fact the first step of an air-based Iskander, launching a rocket at 3M speed, thereby giving it additional 40% of flight speed, and launching is carried out in the aircraft’s cabling mode at the most optimal angle of 45 degrees for rocket ballistics.

    The MiG-31 is a unique, the only aircraft in the world with a steel glider (50%) and an almost single-circuit engine, optimized for flying at a speed of + 3M and overloading 5 g - the glory of the Design Bureau of Mikoyan and Gurevich and the Nizhny Novgorod aircraft factory!

    Tu-16, IL-76, Tu-22, Tu-95, Tu-160, Su-27, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-57, as well as all foreign fighters, bombers and other riflemen to implement this method of air launch of ballistic missiles from the word at all.

    PS The Chinese and the rest of the losers shameful can only tear their hair wherever they grow laughing
    1. NN52
      NN52 April 13 2018 10: 10
      0
      Again ...... 3 + 7 = 10? Well, as much as you can already ...
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 13 2018 17: 06
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      The MiG-31 is in fact the first stage of an air-based Iskander, launching a rocket at 3M speed, thereby giving it additional 40% speed

      That's about it, I "accidentally forgot"! And about the air launch of ballistic missiles, we experimented with this at the end of the 20 century. Experiments have shown the practical feasibility of this type of launch ... For some reason (political? Economic?), Then (!) They refused.
      An An-22 aircraft could accommodate one P-29P missile with three warheads, which had a starting weight of 35,3 tons, and the An-124 aircraft was capable of carrying up to three such missiles. An-124 aircraft could accommodate up to two P-29RM missiles with a launch weight of 40,3 tons, equipped with four warheads.

      High survivability, uncriticality to false alerts of the missile defense system, significant time given to senior management to analyze the situation and make a decision after the aircraft was lifted into the air, and the absence of any destabilizing properties made it possible to characterize the air defense missile defense system as an effective means of ensuring strategic stability, including in uncertain and crisis situations. If both sides really strove to make the world safer, they should have given way to this direction of development of strategic offensive weapons. But that did not happen.

      In the event of a different development of events today, Russia could have a strategically vulnerable group, for example, from 12 – 15 An-124 aircraft with P-29RM missiles, which would provide a significant contribution to maintaining strategic stability for the long term. The service life of such an aviation group could be extended to 2025 – 2030.


      here are some "excerpts" from the "materials of the past" How to "see" ..... The MiG-31 does not "smell" here ...
      By the way, the United States also “sinned” with an air launch (launch) ...
      In order to confirm this possibility, tests were carried out of an experimental air-launch system consisting of a Minitman IA-type ICBM and a Galaxy-S-5A military transport aircraft. .................................................
      .................................................
      .......
      The persistence of the Pentagon in this matter is still alarming. In addition, 14 in May 2013 was conducted by experts from the United States Missile Defense Agency and the United States Air Force, as well as Lockheed Martin, with the participation of specialists from US Army and Orbital Technologies and Dynetics, conducted another similar test. This time, a prototype of a ballistic missile, the eMRBM air launch target (extended medium-range ballistic missile), which the Americans were landing from the cargo compartment of the C-17 military transport aircraft at an altitude of 25 thousand feet (7620 m) at the Yuma test site. decided to use for better and more effective development of the actions of combat crews and test the destruction systems of their global missile defense system.
      (again "excerpts" ...)
      AND FURTHER :
      IS A NEW THREAD POSSIBLE?
      The START Treaty concluded between Russia and the United States in 2010 in Prague does not contain a ban on the production, testing and deployment of the BKVZ. Moreover, the existing treaty on START does not provide for the expense of the USWD, unlike SLBMs and ground-based ICBMs. Only heavy bombers on which they can be placed will be credited. At the same time, a deployed heavy bomber, equipped with even several BRVZs, is counted as just one carrier. For each deployed heavy bomber, regardless of the actual load, only one nuclear warhead is counted, while the actual BRLV on it can carry up to 10 – 20 nuclear warheads.
      One of the effective means of maintaining the combat stability of the Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces in the face of new threats can be missile systems with an intercontinental missile defense missile system. In the foreseeable future, this is the only type of ballistic missile systems capable of ensuring the practical invulnerability of a part of the country's nuclear missile potential. Missile systems with BRVZ placed on existing aircraft carriers are practically invulnerable while on air duty. In the future, it is possible to create a specialized carrier BRVZ, invulnerable while on duty, not only in the air, but also at the aerodrome. The invulnerability of missile systems with BRVZ, as well as the synergistic effect accompanying their deployment, will help to preserve the combat stability of Russia's strategic nuclear forces.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 13 2018 18: 19
        0
        An air launch of a ballistic missile by pulling it back downstream with a loss of speed of the “launcher” is energetically disadvantageous and therefore unclaimed.

        In addition, the supersonic Mig-31 provides launching of a rocket in the stratosphere at an altitude of 21 km with an air density of nineteen times less than at sea level (ground launch) and three times less than at an altitude of 12 km (air launch from a subsonic bomber or transporter). Accordingly, the aerodynamic resistance to rocket flight in the active part of the trajectory will be three times less than when starting with the Tu-160 or Tu-95.

        The payload of the MiG-31 with a maximum take-off weight is 7,6 tons - two Iskander-Ms, however.
        1. NN52
          NN52 April 13 2018 23: 05
          +1
          However, as two Iskanders under 31 hang ... However ,,,
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 14 2018 03: 29
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          The payload of the MiG-31 with a maximum take-off weight is 7,6 tons - two Iskander-Ms, however.

          And are you sure that with the 2, the MiG-31 "iskanders" will reach the M3 speed and the 21 altitude of km? No.
          Quote: Operator
          An air launch of a ballistic missile by pulling it back downstream with a loss of speed of the “launcher” is energetically disadvantageous and therefore unclaimed.

          Air start (launch) BR is an idea (concept)! This idea was "born" in the 20 century and, by the way, has still not "died" ... Everything is "flowing, changing" ... ((time, technology, change ("ripen") and ideas ...) ) In the 20 century, “tried” (tested) some variants of the UZBR .. in 21, they’ll think of others .. (what technology didn’t “allow” in the past century becomes available now or in the near future ...) Then they tested only the very possibility of implementing the idea (!): 1. A "specifically-specialized" aviation-missile complex was not developed; 2. “Mean” “standard” ground launch ballistic missiles or SLBMs; 3. The "standard" transporters didn’t "swing" (because the BRs were stretched out ...). Nowadays, other approaches can be used, as the Chinese demonstrate.: The creation of "specialized" ("aviation") BRs (aeroballistic ...) with " the traditional launch for launch vehicles from the suspension or from the "bomb bay" (cargo compartment of an adapted (!) transporter) ... The fact that the transporter cannot be dispersed to 3 M and raised to a height of 20 km is "compensated" by additional (starting) steps ... (here is the Chinese "waffle" -2-step ... and by the "nature" (trajectory) of the field that, probably, is aeroballistic ...) And the increase in the mass-dimensional characteristics of the rocket is "leveled" by the large volume and carrying capacity of the transporter. 2 direction: the development of special small-sized BRs for use with supersonic aircraft ...
          The fact that at one time the USA and the USSR abandoned the development of the BRVZ was most likely due not to technically insurmountable reasons and the alleged low combat effectiveness of the BRVZ, but to political reasons ... the conclusion of the Treaty ...
          In 1979, in the Treaty between the USSR and the USA on the Limitation and Reduction of Strategic Offensive Arms (OSV-2) along with ballistic missiles of traditional classes (ICBMs, SLBMs), air-to-ground ballistic missiles (BRVZ) were included. Previously, they were not mentioned in any of the international strategic offensive arms (START) documents. BRVZ were included in the basic articles of the SAL-2 Treaty, defining restrictions on the number of strategic offensive arms and their tactical and technical characteristics. The protocol to the contract provided for a ban on flight tests and deployment of the BRVZ on December 31 1981 of the year. They were completely prohibited (production, testing and deployment) by the START-1991 Treaty concluded in 1. After its entry into force in the 1994 year, the ban is valid for 15 years (until 5 December 2009 years). In the case of prolongation of the contract, the ban could continue for the next 5 years.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 14 2018 06: 58
            0
            The payload in 7,8 tons is the modernization potential of the MiG-31 and I calculated it in the "parrots" for clarity. To increase the total range of the ARC Dagger to 3000 km while maintaining the launch at a supersonic speed of an air carrier, it is necessary to use the heavier two-stage version of the Iskander, similar to the Soviet Volga RSD.

            You can work out an initially ineffective idea until you turn blue. laughing
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 14 2018 11: 17
              +2
              Quote: Operator
              You can work out an initially ineffective idea until you turn blue.

              "Come and see" - see! yes
  14. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 13 2018 11: 37
    +1
    The Chinese began to work out this idea even earlier than the Russians. They really are relevant to them. American aircraft carriers come close to their shores. Therefore, an attempt to shoot several successive ballistic missiles successively from aircraft at approximately the AUG course. So that one of them, if an approximate sighting succeeds, captures the target and hits the deck.
  15. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman April 13 2018 12: 34
    0
    Quote: Herkulesich
    But have not our ideas and technologists "gone" to the Chinese? Too fast they have recently created many models of new weapons at least resembling our secret weapons.


    Well, are we strategic partners?
  16. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman April 13 2018 12: 40
    0
    Quote: Operator
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    And as I proposed IL-76 for the “Dagger,” they began to “paraffin” me

    The paraffin is right for you - the MiG-31 is in fact the first step of an air-based Iskander, launching a rocket at 3M speed, thereby giving it additional 40% of flight speed, and launching is carried out in the aircraft’s cabling mode at the most optimal angle of 45 degrees for rocket ballistics.

    The MiG-31 is a unique, the only aircraft in the world with a steel glider (50%) and an almost single-circuit engine, optimized for flying at a speed of + 3M and overloading 5 g - the glory of the Design Bureau of Mikoyan and Gurevich and the Nizhny Novgorod aircraft factory!

    Tu-16, IL-76, Tu-22, Tu-95, Tu-160, Su-27, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-57, as well as all foreign fighters, bombers and other riflemen to implement this method of air launch of ballistic missiles from the word at all.

    PS The Chinese and the rest of the losers shameful can only tear their hair wherever they grow laughing


    Operator! You are an evil person! You suggest to carry out an epilation to all loshara the most inhumane method! But what about the human face?
  17. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel April 13 2018 13: 01
    0
    I look that as the strategists of the Chinese, they didn’t come up with any further copies of the Tu-16.