Nibbling over the Indian market. Indian Air Force announces bid for 110 fighter jets

India announced the opening of a competition for the supply of more than a hundred fighters. The total number of military aircraft that are planned for the Air Force to purchase the Ministry of Defense of this country, should be 110. The transaction value is estimated at 15 billion dollars.

The main requirement from the authorities of India: production must be placed on Indian territory to create new jobs in the country. India also insists that potential partners pass on the appropriate technologies to Indian specialists when building aircraft. This requirement fits into the concept of Prime Minister Narendra Modi on creating his own powerful military-industrial base.

Earlier, the Indian Air Force reported that up to 85% of all aircraft parts and assemblies must be manufactured in factories in India.

American companies are ready to fight for the right to sell their aircraft to the Indian side Boeing, Lockheed Martinas well as swedish Saab and the French Dassault Aviation.

As is known, Lockheed Martin offered to move to India the production line of F-16 fighter jets, which today is in the state of Texas. At the same time, Lockheed Martin announces cooperation with the Indian Tata AS. At the same time, the French are talking about readiness for a full cycle of joint production with the Indian consortium. Adani group.

India itself is talking about interest in acquiring Russian fighters with the transfer of appropriate technology. However, the US sanctions imposed on Russian military-industrial enterprises add barriers here. So for that, sanctions were introduced to try to force Russia out of the same gigantic Indian market. Are our manufacturers ready for this?

Comments

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Gouging Indians, definitely .. But the money is paid good!
Do not believe the USA, I beg you ..

[bouncyhunter]

Hello Vitaly!

The main requirement from the authorities of India: production must be located in Indian territory to create new jobs in the country. India also insists that potential partners transfer the appropriate technologies to the Indian specialists in the construction of aircraft.

Yeah, they will start to do it themselves and their letaki will begin to pour in packs, and as always partners will be blamed. Swam - we know. The clarity of the Indians is well known.

[ul_vitalii]

Pasha, good health! Something is hard to believe that Indians are puzzled by job creation.

[bouncyhunter]

Hello !

Quote: ul_vitalii

Something is hard to believe that Indians are puzzled by job creation. smile

Yes, they do not care about jobs. For them, the main thing is technology transfer, everything else is tinsel.

[Shurik70]

Although the Hinduism is “well-known”, and in terms of quality the majority of their “masters” and the engine cannot be trusted, not just airplanes, but the direction is right.
From the backside where they are now, you have to get out, and there is only one right way - at the beginning to purchase technology, hire specialists from abroad, then educate your specialists. It is this way that they go (they are trying to save on hiring, which is in vain)

[siberalt]

The Hindus came to their senses and decided to follow the Chinese path. Yes, only time has already passed and the world has changed.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: siberalt

The Hindus came to their senses and decided to follow the Chinese path. Yes, only time has already passed and the world has changed.

Catching up on the departed train.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: MIKHAN

Gouging Indians, definitely.

Hello Vitaly! "Still smoking room !!!"
Hindus, of course, are gouging, but like the “right” Gypsies - on your mind! That's why they, silently, without shouting and entourage of the tender, stood in line for China and Turkey to buy our C-400 .... Without noise and din, modestly, with lowered eyes and an outstretched hand with green pieces of paper ...
So, "Hindi - bhai-bhai"!

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Hi Boa constrictor Alexander ..! Alive and howling slowly .. hehe
Hindus pay good money .. I remember Indian films we were popular with, families went to the cinema .. The halls were full!

This is jimi jimi, acha acha .. It’s forever fixed in my memory!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: MIKHAN

This is jimi jimi, acha acha .. It’s forever fixed in my memory!

Vitaly, alas! I did not watch Bollywood products, for I always adhered to the rule: There are good films, there are ones that can be watched, and there are Indian ones that you can’t look at without tears!

[sabakina]

Quote: BoA KAA

Vitaly, alas! I did not look at Bollywood products:

Sasha, you have lost a lot. But it’s not too late .......

[Nikolaevich I]

Ltd ! Zita and the Gita! And also, Ram and Shiam ... (I didn’t mess anything up? ) ... These are the films that I liked at one time: 1. These were one of the first Indian films: 2. There justice triumphed, and evil was punished; 3.And there were "fights" ! And I was young! And then ..... well, then .... began .... to grow up, I stopped watching Indian films But the names: "Zita and Gita", "Ram and Shiam" - I still remember! You can laugh at Indian films, consider them to be "operettas-nedofilmami", but there was a period in the history of our country when Indian cinema became a part of the life of our people.! PS Although with some bewilderment, I notice that now there are fans of Indian cinema!

[andrewkor]

In the wake of the karate of the USSR, "Revenge and the Law" looked three times !!!

[Nikolaevich I]

Oh yeah ! And I remember this film and wanted to name it in a previous post ... (I doubted a little whether I remembered the name correctly) And I also watched it more than once ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: sabakina

you have lost a lot. But it’s not too late ..

Glory, of course, thank you for your concern, but .... I'd rather watch a television series about police wars! Everything is somehow dearer and the truth of life is pleasant and understandable ... Yeah.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: MIKHAN

This is jimi jimi, acha acha .. It’s forever fixed in my memory!

Vitaly, alas! I did not watch Bollywood products, for I always adhered to the rule: There are good films, there are ones that can be watched, and there are Indian ones that you can’t look at without tears!

So you're from another world .. hehe (no offense))))
We liked then ..and tears shed .. hehe

And the Indians see, and remained in their Bollywood .. Alas, in poverty!

[siberalt]

I remember, Meehan, under the Soviets, the family could go to the cinema for a rupee (without a buffet). And now, in the shopping center, one thousand wood without a guarantee to go out alive!

[Des10]

Ticket 250 on average, we look normally in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg - they are alive and well. Three thousand are enough for tickets, for popcorn, and for cola. But do not use it especially.

Quote: siberalt

And now, in the shopping center, one thousand wood without a guarantee to go out alive!

panic, not truth and cynicism gives, do not you?

[Tusv]

Quote: BoA KAA

That's why they, silently, without shouting and entourage of the tender, stood in line for China and Turkey to buy our S-400 .... Without noise and din, modestly, with downcast eyes and outstretched hand with green pieces of paper ..

.
Without noise and dust, then the Chinese were. And the Hindus ... There is an 8 year contract

[Ascetic]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Without noise and din, modestly, with downcast eyes and an outstretched hand with green papers clamped in it

It’s not enough until the pieces of paper are clamped, the price doesn’t suit us, they are bargaining again ... They planned to sign the final contract in Moscow at a security conference, but they did not agree on the price. The Americans are also pushing hard .. we'll see. If all the same they sign India will be the third. A regiment set has already been delivered to China without auxiliary equipment, and with Erdogan agreed to move the deadlines down by 2019 ... Recep is in a hurry, senses that the clouds are gathering

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Ascetic

we are not satisfied with the price, are traded again.

Stanislav, I welcome you!
So it is in the style of communication of the Indians. I remember how we first sold 11356 to them ... Everything repeats ...

Discussion of the contract, which was previously agreed upon 1,5 years ago by President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, stumbled over a financial issue. Moscow is asking for $ 5,5 billion for the five complexes, while Delhi is ready to pay no more than $ 4,5 billion. In addition, the Indian side believes that Russia has set too high a price for the training of those who have to service these weapons. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/weapon

Quote: Ascetic

The Americans also press hard ..

It is clear that they are under pressure ... But they still cannot offer anything in exchange for Triumph. Their Patriots no longer roll: once again 2 MRBMs spanked in the SA. And the proposed increase in the supply of F-16 / F-18 will not solve the missile defense problem. American counterparts of air defense / missile defense systems are much worse than Russian ones, and are more expensive. And India is well aware of this. Most likely, Delhi is simply killing two birds with one stone: on the one hand, it makes a friendly curtsey towards the United States, on the other hand, it tries to blackmail Russia in order to obtain concessions, including obtaining technology.
But there is third party issue: geopolitical confrontation in the region of India and China.

the question is what is more important for Delhi today - containment of China or friendship with Washington.
“If containment of China is a priority, they will buy Russian systems. If India thinks more about cooperation with the United States, of course, it should abandon this deal. https://news.rambler.ru/weapon

[Incvizitor]

in the wake of China and Turkey

Well, possible opponents will have normal ABM defense, but the Indians have nothing, it’s not the case

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Hindus, of course, are gouging, but like the “right” Gypsies - on your mind

On the conditions they set, they will build in a couple of years a squadron of 4 generation fighters without any +. Only localization will be a plus.
An Indian tender is like a lottery - you don’t know how much you will lose ....

[omit]

Boa kaa
"So," Hindi - bhai-bhai! "" DO NOT REPEAT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND!

Hindi - Rus- Bhai-Bhai "!" Indians and Russians - brothers "

[Boa kaa]

Quote: omit

"So," Hindi - bhai-bhai! "" DO NOT REPEAT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND!

Rude, that's just not necessary, dear!
This is exactly what I wanted to say: the Indians are “brothers,” their mother! Moreover, unlike the Jews, they are real Arias! Like the Slavs, by the way! Do not believe? - look at the gene code ...
Hello to the Promised Land, God's chosen one!

[URAL72]

The fact of the matter is that the new tender was announced because of the high cost of the previous one, but here MiG has no competitors, India will not buy Chinese equipment. What is now on the MiG 29/35 is quite effective, but you can’t name a breakthrough, including engine, radar, radar. 85% is bold, but 70 percent can be transmitted. The main thing is that under the contract at least five cars should be delivered ready from Russia annually, this will allow not to lose qualified personnel.

[RASKAT]

Well, hardly any technology will be handed over to all Indians. especially the USA and Europa. Only we can and then only partially. I think this is a great opportunity to raise our KB MIG with its 35 Mig. It will be possible to bargain and reset from 85% to say 75 or 70%, and in the remaining percent you can just fit the radar and Avionika engines. It depends on how you count
Although of course the requirements are unprecedented, I’m afraid I will end up with some kind of Indian miracle in the body of a recognizable aircraft.

[zyzx]

Quote: MIKHAN

Gouging Indians, definitely .. But the money is paid good!

110 fighters for 15 billion? Come on....

[Terenin]

Nibbling over the Indian market. Indian Air Force announces bid for 110 fighter jets And, here in this matter the word "squabble" and "case of the Skripals" may seem like flowers. 15 billion dollars "do not lie on the ground."

[ul_vitalii]

Gene, good morning and fruitful day! Now, of course, with this setting, each lard will count. China and Kazakhstan, and they caved in, hid, promising "friends."

[Terenin]

Quote: ul_vitalii

Gene, good morning and fruitful day!

With the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary you, Vitaly (and all Orthodox) You have to try yourself in this competition. "To live with wolves according to wolf howls." If only it would be interesting to know who exactly in Russia leads the foreign trade of Russia? And what assets does he have abroad?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Terenin

Indian Air Force announces a tender for the purchase of 110 fighters

But the platform also needs a weapon. They have fully invested in BrahMos. And it is adapted to our SU-30MKI ... Therefore, apparently, everything will depend on the price per unit and willingness to transfer the "yesterday" to the Indians ...
A big piece, can the winners of the tender be able to swallow it right away? After all, it will be necessary to build an airline, because one "line" for assembly under such conditions of production localization is clearly not enough.
IMHO.

[Terenin]

everything will depend on the price per unit and readiness to pass on "yesterday" to the Indians ...

That's right, Alexander As they say in Russia, there are two fools on the market, one sells, the other buys ... With all the consequences (crooks, thieves, swindlers, intermediaries ...)

[yehat]

This competition is meaningless for the Russian Federation. The Indians insist on the almost complete transfer of technology and the old fighters are not going to buy. The same Americans are also trying to get in the f-16, which is already many years old.
At the same time, given the previous adventures of the Indians, they are not ready to fully pay for the cost of the technologies that are needed to build a modern fighter. Under these conditions, it is only possible to transfer a machine profitably, which we have produced in hundreds, but there are simply none. Previously, that was Mig-21, Mig-23. I'm not talking about privacy issues and leaks.
In general, the conditions are simply disadvantageous. And no matter what market there is. You need to sell profitably, let other motives go through the forest.

[Rurikovich]

I agree with you

Quote: yehat

This competition is meaningless for the Russian Federation. The Indians insist on the almost complete transfer of technology and the old fighters are not going to buy. The same Americans are also trying to get in the f-16, which for many years

Hindus at this moment are famous as a lady of easy virtue, who herself does not know what she wants, but who believes that for a lot of money, which she has, she can give left and right, without putting eggs in one basket.
Personally, I already have a lot of questions for Indians, as for "adequate" customers

[yehat]

in fact, MIG is able to compete for this market if it acts actively, as after the previous failure of the tender in India. But there hasn’t been much good news lately from there.
However, I would like to point out what Glazyev says - because of the great difficulty with borrowed capital in our country, all dynamic projects are covered with a copper basin and most of them are still too expensive to spin up something quickly at the start.
Americans with their loan rates have no such problem at all.

[Astoria]

What are dynamic projects?

[Golovan Jack]

And what side is the "borrowed capital" to the tender for the supply of fighter jets?

[ZVO]

Quote: Golovan Jack

And what side is the "borrowed capital" to the tender for the supply of fighter jets?

To that. that for example, payment will be made upon delivery of the fighter to the troops.
And taking into account production in India - the period between the start of payment for metals / components for an aircraft unit and other costs and payment by the final customer - can be calculated over the years.
Where will you find so much money?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: ZVO

... payment will be made upon delivery of the fighter to the troops ...

... of India? What MIG do you care about? Is he planning to get money from the Indians directly?
Oh well

Quote: ZVO

for example

Bad example. Still invent a thread, more life, or something ...

[ZVO]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Bad example. Still invent a thread, more life, or something ...

I do not understand your logic ...

I ask you (I honestly and without jokes) to tell you how you see the production and financial chain from the moment you start procuring materials, preparing production, purchasing components for airplanes, remunerating workers, etc. in the case of a contract for the production of aircraft in India with a localization of 85% and the fact of payment at the end of state acceptance of each aircraft?
Just tell me.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: ZVO

Just tell

I see no point, to be honest.
MIG is a state-owned company, in fact. Everything further follows from here ... with inevitability.
The “deal with fighters” is a nonsense policy of 99,9%, the money there is just a nice bonus. So they will find money if necessary. In the nightstand (s).
Therefore mention relatives and friends of the deceased Glazyev’s oracle in this context seemed to me ... somewhat awkward.
And all

[ZVO]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: ZVO

Just tell

I see no point, to be honest.
MIG is a state-owned company, in fact. Everything further follows from here ... with inevitability.
The “deal with fighters” is a nonsense policy of 99,9%, the money there is just a nice bonus. So they will find money if necessary. In the nightstand (s).
Therefore mention relatives and friends of the deceased Glazyev’s oracle in this context seemed to me ... somewhat awkward.
And all

Those. you have not read the consortium requirement with Indian business?
The fact that the RSK MIG - for several years under sanctions, and anyone who works with the RSK MIG - may be "embraced" by the Amer judicial anaconda you have not read?

And yes. 15 billion dollars from the Nightstand ...

...
You are just a "Fat" troll ..

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: ZVO

didn't you read?

Yes, I read everything ... only with this here, tell in favor:

Quote: yehat

... I would like to point out what Glazyev says - because of the great difficulty with borrowed capital in our country, all dynamic projects are covered with a copper basin and most are still at the start ...

You can say? No? If not - to you as a forest, I spoke about this from the very beginning. And about nothing else

Quote: ZVO

15 billion dollars from Bedside tables

Where did you get $ 15 billion, I wonder?
This is the amount of the contract, and not the amount that (theoretically) MIG may need ...

Quote: ZVO

You are just a "Fat" troll ..

And you (it is not clear why) climb into the dispute, not understanding its essence and not owning the subject.
Something like this

[ZVO]

Quote: Golovan Jack

And you (it is not clear why) climb into the dispute, not understanding its essence and not owning the subject.
Something like this

Do you know. I know very well. what are borrowed funds in medium and small enterprises ... and even large and military ones .. What is life with many bankruptcies in our military commissar? where did the cash gap come from?


Do you know that not a single large shopping center is ever built with the owner’s own funds?
Even if he has a billion dollars - does he still build on loans from banks?
Because. which is so transparent to anchor tenants. which bring him profit ...
Did you know. that the purchase of cars on lease by the contractor is much more transparent for the customer of the contract than the purchase on their own funds?

And explain to me though. “Why are you bringing me forest then?”, maybe just because. what are you zero in the real economy?
What kind of shi will you build a factory in India? Pay builders, pay workers. pay suppliers of metal, machine tools, energy, etc.

I already said that you are a "fat troll" and I repeat again - you are also an absolutely illiterate Internet warrior ...

[Astoria]

Alex, flies separately, cutlets separately. There are no difficulties in national currencies for either India or the Russian Federation, however, project financing is not necessary, you do not need to build nuclear power plants.

[ZVO]

Quote: Astoria

Alex, flies separately, cutlets separately. There are no difficulties in national currencies for either India or the Russian Federation, however, project financing is not necessary, you do not need to build nuclear power plants.

Again.
the contract does not imply a simple sale. According to which you can use any settlement schemes.

The contract implies the creation of a joint consortium, the organization of production in India, the selection and training of personnel by the Indian side, and many tens and hundreds of other points of production logistics and financing.
And no separation of flies, etc. - will not be.
This is a huge project with many subtasks.

[yehat]

tender not for the supply of fighters, but for the deployment of their production in India
This is an investment in infrastructure deployment in India. That's why borrowed capital.
In addition, each fuss with large-scale tenders - these are costs and reserves for the flexibility of proposals are highly desirable. Finally, ensuring timely technical re-equipment is also money and not small.
that's why borrowed capital.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: yehat

a tender not for the supply of fighters, but for the deployment ...

The above has already answered something similar, take a look, plz.

[ZVO]

Quote: yehat

in fact, MIG is able to compete for this market if it acts actively, as after the previous failure of the tender in India. But there hasn’t been much good news lately from there.

Mig is not able to break further.
And never again.
Under the terms of the project, the MIG should have a local "consortium".

And not a single local will contact MIG - just because. that his Americans will block all accounts and take away all the money.

So American sanctions in action for real.

And not hatred of local D, B ...

ours are really thrown out and very tough from the arms market.
We can now sell only on intergovernmental agreements.
and we will now be very twisted hands. and if we need export, we will merge everything at best to zero ...

[Astoria]

First, you yourself enter a cohort of local D, B along with everyone.
Secondly

We can now sell only on intergovernmental agreements.

Who are we, you and Rosoboronexport?
Thirdly, why do you think that the local consortium should pay, and not the IFA that actually posted this request: http://indianairforce.nic.in/capital-procurement

[ZVO]

Quote: Astoria

Thirdly, why do you think that the local consortium should pay, and not the IFA that actually posted this request: http://indianairforce.nic.in/capital-procurement

The first nonsense is scorched ...
Once again, if you do not understand.
Payment for (produced in Indian territory and delivered to the Indian Air Force) aircraft will not be made by Migu, Boeing, Lockheed - but by the local consortium ...
And already the consortium will have to transfer the share of the profit to the participants.
According to internal agreements and decisions of shareholders adopted when creating this consortium ...

[Letun]

Quote: Rurikovich

Hindus at this moment are famous as a lady of easy virtue, who herself does not know what she wants, but who believes that for the big money she has, she can give right and left

You didn’t mix anything up? Ladies of easy virtue give right and left not for their big money, but for strangers. And where will they spend their money, they will figure it out even without your consultation. How does our people like strangers to dispose of someone else ...

[Astoria]

85% in India + it is not known whose and by whom the avionics produced. And what will remain of the contract? Gypsy nation in its repertoire.

[konstantin68]

Well done Indians, and give them production, and technology. The Americans are even ready to assemble planes 30 years ago in India. I think in the case of India, this will not work, although the F-16 is a really good plane.
And the second: if we assume that ours would win the tender, where to collect them, there is not enough capacity for the videoconferencing.

[Simon]

In general, India will lose a lot if it does not purchase our planes. Americans and French like to set up. So, the Indians first let them think big, and then they buy airplanes from them!

[donavi49]

So they will not have used boards from Nevada. And the new 70 / 72 blocks, and which ones.

Why is 16 bad? What is not there?
The base then laid the revolutionary, today mandatory EDSU.
Radar - put the most advanced AFAR.
The engine is a modernized one and it is very reliable and good with a record history and a touch worthy of a Guinness book.
Armament is actually the benchmark for IFIs today. Both in terms of variability and load.
LTH - in general, at the level.

[Kasym]

Bad in one engine. During the operation (up to 16g), more than 650 incidents were recorded, which led to the loss of the F-16.

[Shahno]

For some reason, I think that 2 x engine. they don’t need such a quantity ... This time. And two is the only thing that Lockheed can accommodate in India, they don’t shine with 35 ... Three, the practice of using Su 30-35 is small, which makes it impossible to talk about real accidents, and no one needs the unknown, and again the extra money for engines ... European cars are generally a pure theory.

[Kasym]

Two engines are reliability.
I do not care what Lockheed can and cannot do.
Do you know the number of Su-27 and Su-30 in India? And the practice is such that the Hindu pilots have the largest raid in the world. And they beat NATO F-16,15,18 in training battles.
There will be no excess engine. This is how to compare the M-16 and AK-47 in terms of reliability - I think you understand what I'm writing about.

[voyaka uh]

Two engines - this is to increase traction if one is missing.
Reliability - no relation. The designers of the MiG-29 once honestly said that
if they had one engine of sufficient power, the MiG-29 would be single-engine (which is logical for a light fighter).

[Kasym]

I agree with the designers, but even the outstanding F-35 engine (modern engine F-22) does not provide the required maximum speed. On two versions of the F-35, in order to fight for weight, there is no built-in gun (only in cont. Execution).
Even in the history of Israel, there are cases when a plane returned with one blasted engine, you can give examples of the Su-25 in Afghanistan from the history of the Union. So, 2 engines are directly related to reliability. This was confirmed, for example, by the VAF on the site. As he wrote approximately. "... On a single-engine emergency with an engine, there is only one action - come on out - the loss of an airplane ...". Then many noted that with one always a poor traction (MiG-21,23,27; F-16, F-35). And then you have to choose either range or ammunition. And this means for large countries that you need to have a large fleet of such aircraft. Like those MiG-21s during Soviet times. And the task of the Russian Federation, according to GDP, is only 700 fighters in the VKS system.
And of course I agree that the two engines give more traction. Agree that this is an advantage than a disadvantage. It is clear that more expensive.

[APASUS]

The Indian market, although large, is subject to constant scandals, it has been marked more than once by canceling the tenders held, the correspondence of the conditions for the tender is on the move. In this case, there is a kind of lobbying in India, as a rule firms win the interests of which are pushed by a certain group in power structures and laws do not apply here and rules.
On the last tender, it was seen how the price, conditions and winner changed on the go.

[Rurikovich]

Hindus, they are, Panimash

[Vadim237]

It is possible to offer the Indians the production of the MiG 29SMT with AFAR, no matter how 855 billion rubles will not be superfluous for Russia.

[APASUS]

Quote: Vadim237

It is possible to offer the Indians the production of the MiG 29SMT with AFAR, no matter how 855 billion rubles will not be superfluous for Russia.

The whole point of this venture in obtaining Western technology, we are not interested in them. Our aircraft are already manufactured there.

[bratchanin3]

For this money, the Indians will rip off three skins from Russia and there is no guarantee that after the transfer of technical documentation, debugging of production facilities and technology tuning, the contract will not be sequestered.
Khitrozh @ puff Ukrainians, at one time, also no matter how appeased, but as a result? How much can you work with suckers already?

[donavi49]

Well here is debatable. And who does not fight? Everyone is acting up. Even loyal Algeria - when they began to suck in it, various indecency unfolded.

And the same Algeria is quite kitezitsya (investments, preferences to Chinese corporations) soon Bouteflika all, now he is very late Brezhnev (well, so 82 year old will hit soon). What will happen next is unclear. Including in the course of Algeria. There most likely will change much either to China or to the West.

[donavi49]

Hindus have already rolled a prototype MiG-35 with prototype avionics and radar. A ride yet. SMT exists only with Beetle-M.

Beetle A is generally foggy. The first batch for the MiG-35 MO is Zhuk-M (slotted). With 20 + will go the first experienced with a promising AFAR (not Zhuk-A).

[voyaka uh]

Hindus are afraid of two engines. After the experience with Dryers. Two engines - two repairs.
Half of the planes are without engines. Another part - for other reasons.
Therefore, the F-16 has good chances. The engine is one and reliable enough.

[APASUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

Hindus are afraid of two engines. After the experience with Dryers. Two engines - two repairs.
Half of the planes are without engines. Another part - for other reasons.
Therefore, the F-16 has good chances. The engine is one and reliable enough.

If the Indians wanted to buy the F-16, he would have bought it without a tender and very quickly. The Americans have already begun to seriously indulge the Indians. And India needs new technologies for stealth, polymers, electronics, so this will probably be a new car, not an old man F-16, even if upgraded, in the latest version

[av58]

The chances of the F-16 are not because of a single engine, but because the turkeys will receive the entire machine production line from the s, which Russia will never do.
In this entire story, the most interesting questions are: 1) whether India will require a license to manufacture an engine with full localization; 2) whether India will require a license to board, including the aerobatic complex, and avionics, and 3) whether India will require a license for weapons, including missiles.

[Astoria]

Well, something is no longer a secret - that’s the request itself: http://indianairforce.nic.in/capital-procurement

[YELLOWSTONE]

Quote: voyaka uh

Half of the planes are without engines. Another part - for other reasons.

by what? They poured diesel and rapeseed oil there, or diluted kerosene with donkey urine?

[AID.S]

Quote: APASUS

and there are no laws and regulations.

And here, in this corrupt monastery, the bright elves come with their anti-corruption charter. Only Indians will try to say the word across, I’m tormented by swallowing dust.

[Vard]

Purely from a psychological point of view, our Indians need to be sent, like let them run after us ... And produce fighters ... It should be a production culture ... And they’re still those ...

[bratchanin3]

In my opinion, if you go to the demand of India and hand over those documentation, it will be the height of idiocy. Having received all the documentation, the Indians can break the contract. It is not for nothing that they are stirring up excitement so that Russia would be tempted, but at the same time they are in every possible way lowering the price of military products, blaming our planes as imperfect. I think for a while Russia should quieten down, even if it is bought from the Americans, at a price.

[KVU-NSVD]

Our price should cover the cost and have a margin. So do not go for a walk. anyway, 35- they won’t buy it - they need their own infrastructure - and this is a lot of money. They will buy what is cheaper in the end - although here everything depends on the sweetness of kickbacks

[midshipman]

In this competition of the Russian Federation it is necessary to participate. After all, in 1977 we were able to win the competition and began to produce MiG-23 in India. After the start of production of this aircraft, I received from India 10 lei for 6 thousand dollars. USA, since MiG 23, my 2 patents were transferred to Mikoyan Design Bureau. Today we are participating in India to create aircraft carriers (JSC NIIIT and JSC Navigator creating a flight control system).
What are the sanctions? All radio navigation and instrumental landing in India are ours. You cannot lose the contest.

[Evgeniy667b]

Russia and so many squandering its technology and hardware, including, often at a loss. So many new developments, and according to the state defense order, all the same modernized old people are arriving. All the best for sale. This is criminal, at least !. Compare the 70s and now, as it is wrong. Then there was another country that could do a lot and the SSBN alone put 4 units per year into operation. Now just tears! Or do we no longer need the armed forces? It remains only to integrate into China to protect?

[Amateur]

Once again? Previously, the meme was “10007 last Chinese warning,” and now NNN is an Indian tender.

[shoroh]

I’m sure they will eventually sell them a Su-35S.

[IL-18]

The Hindus are interested in a light fighter, and the heavy Su-30mki is already in the metal and a lot. Another point that is against the purchase of a Russian fighter is two engines. It is very difficult to compete against the F-16 here with the incompleteness of the Beetle MiG. It would seem that we take one engine from the Su-35s and make a half, in the form of a light fighter: for export, we have a couple of regiments for advertising and mobresource in case of a grandiose chucher. But these are years, money, airfields, etc.

[groks]

The result will be French. But ours will participate - already in the process, you can cut and roll a lot.

[Runoway]

Technology transfer? Fly on your whitemans all drawings are like this in tibet

[rotmistr60]

India threw temptation at 15 billion, but only on its own terms. Now they will watch with interest how the Americans with the old, but still effective F-16 will butt with the French. In relation to us, the American sanctions arrived in time, and even if in doubt, we would agree to the transfer of technology on new aircraft. Indians apparently do not fit the dollars in their pockets and drop out already, so they enjoy their "significance".

[Lesorub]

Indian Air Force announces a tender for the purchase of 110 fighters

But what about the French and the "Rafals" who at one time "won" the tender)))), most likely the Hindus clumsily hinted at F 35.)))

[Hole puncher]

This is a competition to replace the Jaguars and MiG21, Rafal is not from this cohort

[askort154]

In our minds, type Indians, a half-race, breed like the Chinese, but they themselves can’t do anything but bargain and “throw”. But this is not the task. India, like a panther, has crept into the world stage. According to the IMF, for 2016: Population of India = 1 (346nd place after China = 250).
India PPP GDP = 8701, 3rd place in the world (1 - China = 21286, 2 - USA = 18624).
PPP - purchasing power parity.
Further :
4 - Japan = 5233,
5 - Germany = 3997,
6 - Russia = 3862,
7 - Brazil = 3141,
8 - Indonesia - 3031,
9 - England = 2785,
10 - France = 2735.
So, today India is a huge market that can dictate its conditions in the modern world. The rest are forced to adjust in order not to leave this market.

[Rostislav]

So for that, sanctions were introduced to try to oust Russia from the same gigantic Indian market. Are our manufacturers ready for this?

To what? To the transfer of the latest technology to Indians and, through them, penguins?

[Herculesic]

They themselves do not know what they want, although they realize that they obviously want something! !! Unpredictable, and prohibitively self-confident. We do not need to get into this lure, otherwise we will be left without technology, and we will fly by the money.

[Hole puncher]

India itself speaks of an interest in acquiring Russian fighters with the transfer of appropriate technologies.

Another confabulation, India did not express any interest in Russian light fighters. The fight is between the USA and Sweden, there are no others there and is not expected

[etrofimov]

Hindus are corrupt, urgently agree on the supply of everything that can be sold abroad to Pakistan! So that these Bishmas and Shiva spit blood "!

[smart ass]

Why do Indians f16 who are 40 years old at lunchtime

[IL-18]

Oh well. Against the background of the MiG-21, which is still in operation among the Indians ... Yes, some 70 block
Although, I would suggest lards for 7,5 (Indians to 5 cut off by any) to finish them with Tejas with 15% of our contents.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Clever man

Why do Indians f16 who are 40 years old at lunchtime

Between the last block 70 and the first machine, only the overall appearance is common.

[av58]

The Indian fighter market, we seem to be losing forever. Do I need to be upset? Hardly. Nobody will give Indians the type of Su-30 aircraft, and the “light” F-16 fighter is already the day before yesterday. Everything that the Indian defense industry does can be safely scrapped, the quality is horrendous, and the accident rate is almost the highest in the world. If we could not teach Indian specialists, it will not work with the Americans and Europeans. And Lockheed, and SAAB, and the French do not care, the main thing is to get real money for illiquid assets, which they will do brilliantly. We will only have to remember the past, and write India on the list of former friends of Russia, which the Indians, we will speak directly, have not been for us for a long time. We will build normal commercial relations, which is absolutely correct.

[IL-18]

So we were friends with the Indians and so not free. Although, because they were friends, it’s not free, which for free, either ended or betrayed.

[jovanni]

So for that, sanctions were introduced to try to oust Russia from the same gigantic Indian market. Are our manufacturers ready for this?

So let’s see if we still have teeth for “bickering”. Although the Indians in their tender with their troubles not only need teeth, but something else. Maybe eat peas before the negotiations ...

[HMR333]

where does the US sanction when the Indian contract is complete nonsense!

[ZVO]

Quote: HMR333

where does the US sanction when the Indian contract is complete nonsense!

Moreover. that any citizen in the world, or any company in the world - can be fined, blocked, arrested by an American court - simply for the fact of financial relations with companies or people from the US sanctions list.

And people in the world are afraid of this. in fact.

[lance]

it’s enough for Pakistan to offer a screwdriver assembly of a blink of -29cm and where will India be, and if you joke with blink-35?

[JON IVAHOVISH]

let f35 buy and then suffer with them

[EnGenius]

The problem for India is that no one will transfer the production of engines from Western partners, so 85% will not be met. F16 and especially Gripen - a competitor to the Indian Tejas. It’s more realistic to bend the French, but again the problem is in the engines, although there are snecma engines there, but I still don’t understand whether they are delivered as standard. They will have a powerful lobby against the MiG, but where does the American sanction mentioned in the article ?!

[Hiw]

Would they send these Indians to Guadeloupe, the most important zhmods, personally this will not bother me at all our private corporations, the military will conclude a contract with them, or who else ... if ours are concluded then nothing will fall to the people, since all our military corporations belong private individuals and not the state, minuscule taxes are paid, some ten collective farms producing milk, meat and grain will give the people ten times more than these thieves from the government

[Incvizitor]

A good opportunity to push “saab” into them, since all markets are already divided, and here they can buy a lot, especially since the Indians do not have any “flu” yet they like “to have it” all at once.

[Netzah netzah]

As a result, the tender will be won by the F-16 with the American engine and Israeli avionics.

[Shahno]

By the way, the most reliable, proven option. And at a cost tolerant ...

[Vlad5307]

India itself is talking about interest in acquiring Russian fighters with the transfer of appropriate technology. However, the US sanctions imposed on Russian military-industrial enterprises add barriers here. So for that, sanctions were introduced to try to force Russia out of the same gigantic Indian market. Are our manufacturers ready for this?

Here the question should be posed as follows: "Are the Indians ready for a" break "from the side of Western firms for the complete transfer of the most modern technologies?" It’s high time for them to understand that this will never be given to anyone and that the technologies themselves need to be “grown", and not begged for, and even for cheap!

[kan123]

India will not fight - she has no one to fight, why does she need so many planes? This is a huge coastal zone, typical of Crimea, but there is something to protect for the whole THAT region, but the problem is that the only one to protect from is the United States - still Obama is a Negro, argued that the region will be for the USA - then came Trump - and this haemorrhoids began with the whole line - China, North Korea, the Sea of ​​China, where the Japanese already confuse the coast - and India of course. And if India, then they will lose this war with the United States, if you do not arm them, but to "be friends" with the bad guys from Pendogon ends with the fate of Gaddafi.

[ZVO]

Quote: kan123

India will not fight - she has no one to fight, why does she need so many planes? This is a huge coastal zone, typical of Crimea,

You really are such a useless creation for society. who never read about Indo-Pakistani wars and Indo-Chinese border conflicts?

[Machete]

Yeah, as always, give them free technologies, and when the planes fall, those who gave them these technologies will be to blame.
for the first time or what?

[Mentat]

Quote: APASUS

Quote: voyaka uh

Hindus are afraid of two engines. After the experience with Dryers. Two engines - two repairs.
Half of the planes are without engines. Another part - for other reasons.
Therefore, the F-16 has good chances. The engine is one and reliable enough.

If the Indians wanted to buy the F-16, he would have bought it without a tender and very quickly. The Americans have already begun to seriously indulge the Indians. And India needs new technologies for stealth, polymers, electronics

This whole tender is an empty phrase until they lower their Wishlist to an acceptable level. The real cost of the production technologies of modern military aircraft is hundreds of billions of dollars, and breakthrough technologies are generally difficult to evaluate, their cost exceeds a trillion dollars.

[voyaka uh]

"the real cost of production technologies of modern military aircraft ..." ////

There is no such indicator. When an aircraft becomes obsolete its technology quickly becomes nafig nobody needs. Zero dollars, zero rubles.
How much is the MiG-23 production technology? Nothing. Although the plane is the hardest.
There is a market value. And she is changing dramatically. Yesterday - billions, today - zero.
Whoever does not understand this becomes a "dog in the manger."

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: voyaka uh

When an aircraft becomes obsolete its technology quickly becomes nafig nobody needs. Zero dollars, zero rubles

And tell me - technologies for new aircraft, they hatch from an egg, and then grow for a long time?
Or are they, basically, the development of technologies, ahem, outdated aircraft?

Quote: voyaka uh

How much is the MiG-23 production technology?

Does it exist in nature? And very different from the "production technology" MIG-29?
Brrr ...

[voyaka uh]

"Or are they, basically, are the development of technology, ahem, outdated aircraft?" ////

The history of the development of the aircraft absolutely does not interfere with buyers and customers.
How the Wright brothers' airplane was made, the Yak-9 or MiG-21 are of interest only to aviation enthusiasts.
If the customer wants to purchase the MiG-29 (or F-16) along with all the technology and the production line, he does not care how much labor, generation, money has been invested in it. These are all sentiments.
There are X billion. Or yes - and you have them, or they have a competitor. And you stay with the museum and the stories of labor veterans.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: voyaka uh

The history of the development of aircraft does not interfere with buyers and customers

It's not about LA. We are talking about technologies used in the manufacture of aircraft.

Quote: voyaka uh

... the customer wants to purchase the MiG-29 (or F-16) along with all the technology and the production line ...

Do not aggravate. The question I asked was about technology only. And technology is not a production line at all, and other, ahem, robots are, let's say, a certain culture. But you can’t buy it, you need to develop it.

Quote: voyaka uh

There are x billion

There is a fat (and moody) client. A large country, to have influence on which ... is not futile.
X billion here, I repeat - not at all the most delicious.

Quote: voyaka uh

Do you stay with a museum and stories of labor veterans

Not only

[voyaka uh]

"ahem, robots are also culture. But you can’t buy it, you need to develop it." ///

There are many examples of jerks almost from scratch. If it is possible (at least by brute force method) to find people with heads and specialists + foreign consultants and technologies + money.
Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners.
And today, South Korea is number one in the global shipbuilding industry.
Time is running out. If you do not run forward, then roll back. Therefore, clinging to obsolete technologies (“though old, but only mine”) is counterproductive.
Competitors will come up with better, not gods burn pots.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: voyaka uh

There are many examples of jerks almost from scratch ... Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners

Well, God forbid, our calves (Indians) ... You look, after 100 years, they will produce something efficient.
Although, as for me - they are clumsy goofies and are extremely curved.
Tales of the "best programmers in the world" are just tales, there are just a lot of them, and they are cheap. He himself worked with them in the 2000s, spit out.

Quote: voyaka uh

gods do not burn pots

Pots - yes.

[voyaka uh]

"Tales of the" best programmers in the world "are just tales" ///

The best ones are in Silicon Valley. And some of them are directors
the world's largest IT companies.
Those with whom you communicate (and we communicate) are "the best of the worst."
In general, there, from the one and a half billion of all tribes, one can single out a couple of peoples that are smart and serious. A little - 150 million .

[Setrac]

Quote: voyaka uh

Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners.
And today, South Korea is number one in the global shipbuilding industry.

There are two "BUT".
Hindus want to catch up in a much shorter time.
Who will indulge the Hindus, as the Americans did with the Koreans?

[voyaka uh]

They have a goal: to become an industrial country. And they are trying.
They are spurred on by the new giant China. They see how the Chinese are quickly "entangling" their support for Pakistan, all sorts of silk roads, ports, military bases in Africa.
Here are the yogis and tear the claws . They have no resources - they are lucky, they have to strain their heads.

[Setrac]

Quote: voyaka uh

If the customer wants to purchase the MiG-29 (or F-16) along with all the technology and the production line, he does not care how much labor, generation, money has been invested in it. These are all sentiments.

You are wrong, here we are talking about the fact that the Indians offer very little for technology, for this price they will only be sold aircraft, but not technology.

[op office]

TK you are dogs in the manger

[u1977020556]

Military equipment should not stand and guard the world. EUROPEAN auxiliaries must be beaten, strength must be shown, then there will be less questions as to whom to buy from, as well as conditions. ... It would be better if tea was grown, there would be more sense.

[misti1973]

These like the Chinese all want to copy

[hump]

Hindus, when buying everything, want to get licenses. So do not sell and wait when they mature before purchase according to our requirement, taking into account theirs, but except for the license

[op office]

Hindus serve ONLY READY PRODUCT! Nii what assemblies, productions, and even more so technologies do not transfer anything!

[cat hippopotamus]

Well, of course, the terms of the contest, so to speak, with a reserve for the future, only who will give this future to you. F-16 is not a bad plane, but it's already yesterday. As long as production is established, it will generally be an obsolete model. If they take our Su-27 or MiG-29, it’s also yesterday. Well, they don’t want to buy a new one separately, give you the whole technology and line. Do you want to buy a Su-57 from us together with all the technologies? So who will give them to you?

[duchy]

India has been trying to buy aircraft for how many years, But they want to acquire primarily production technology, and quickly, they themselves do not "have enough" of brains and resources. The dough for development needs a lot and a lot of time. And we want "All at once."

[Mentat]

Quote: voyaka uh

If the customer wants to purchase the MiG-29 (or F-16) along with all the technology and the production line, he does not care how much labor, generation, money has been invested in it. These are all sentiments.

You never know what the customer wants. Tomorrow a guy with violent paisas will come to you and declare that he wants to buy your house for 3 shekels, and will begin to tell you about sentiment. Scribble some nonsense.
The customer will receive only that which corresponds to a) market realities; b) the amount of money that he is ready to offer in exchange for the goods.

[voyaka uh]

And I'm talking about the same thing - about market prices. They fluctuate sharply. When the product (the fighter is the same product) begins to become obsolete, the price drops sharply. Therefore, do not wait for the price to drop:
if you have something to sell to the Indians - do not waste time. Tomorrow it will no longer be necessary for anyone.

[XXXIII]

Quote: voyaka uh

They fluctuate sharply. When the product (the fighter is the same product) begins to become obsolete, the price drops sharply. Therefore, do not wait for the price to drop

Masterpieces are aging, but the price is only growing, because old developments give impetus to future technologies ....

[ZVO]

Quote: XXXIII

Masterpieces are aging, but the price is only growing, because old developments give impetus to future technologies ....

This is nonsense...
The modern world - does not need "gradual" Step - this is a step ..

Many countries have skipped stages of technological revolutions ...
And from feudalism, rhinestones went into a completely different world.
And they continue to act calmly in a new vein.
Japan, South Korea, China, Israel.

[XXXIII]

Quote: ZVO

This is nonsense...
The modern world - does not need "gradual" Step - this is a step ..
Many countries have skipped stages of technological revolutions ...
And from feudalism, rhinestones went into a completely different world.
And they continue to act calmly in a new vein.
Japan, South Korea, China, Israel.

Where did they jump ?! The countries that you have listed have achieved more success in industry, in finance, but not a lot of contribution to science, much of which was borrowed from old decisions. I agree there are new concepts, but in comparison with what has already been created and works, this is a minuscule. Progress is slow, but at first glance it looks very fast. To this day, they are trying to buy the old for nothing, the old things already have the technology, the new is not a damn thing, they are copying in a new way with new features, of course using new materials .....

[ZVO]

Quote: XXXIII

Where did they jump ?!

In what is called the new technological revolution / technological order, etc.
Their economy is already on a new track. their people are already on a new way of life and thinking.
For better or worse, it is not yet known.
But they are already there.

[XXXIII]

Quote: ZVO

But they are already there.

Yes, they joined the industrial and scientific hegemons, having received the base, they made a big leap by their standards. Yes, today they are part of world industry and even hegemons reckon with them, so that they cannot fall out of this basket. We are in the same basket of technological development, but spoils the whole development, this is when a small country wants to become hegemons in the world and tell others how to live, this is degradation. Their development just lies in independent decision making, which give a new idea, but when they make decisions under the influence of the hegemon, they simply become a template, a blank. Small countries, independent in their decisions, make the world a better place.

Quote: ZVO

Japan, South Korea, China, Israel.

Of these countries, I would mention Japan, South Korea and China, although they are different in size, but they operate just independently in science and industry. And this is not so about Israel, they pay a great scientific tribute to the United States and have become their template, but it is clear that they are resisting and want not to be pressured. When the United States helps Israel, not for the development of its interests, but for the development of its “ally,” Israel will be different. Israel can change a lot for BV, but many also interfere with it (the United States is no exception), that's why the Jews and I still go as allies, we don’t need a hegemon in BV, we need independent decisions of the BV countries ....

[Mentat]

Quote: voyaka uh

Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners.
And today, South Korea is number one in the global shipbuilding industry.

The reason there was about the same as with the Chinese, only the Koreans did not invest in the shipbuilding of the Koreans, but the Greeks. They gave orders, technologies in exchange for cheap labor and total discounts. The success of Korean shipbuilding has the name "Lebanon billionaire." The Americans were much more careful, but today they are howling about the "theft of intellectual property."

[voyaka uh]

Thanks for these details. Did not know. Interesting.

[ZVO]

Quote: Mentat

Quote: voyaka uh

Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners.
And today, South Korea is number one in the global shipbuilding industry.

The reason there was about the same as with the Chinese, only the Koreans did not invest in the shipbuilding of the Koreans, but the Greeks. They gave orders, technologies in exchange for cheap labor and total discounts. The success of Korean shipbuilding has the name "Lebanon billionaire." The Americans were much more careful, but today they are howling about the "theft of intellectual property."

Did the Greeks own any technology?
Country. in which there is not a single large shipyard ???

[Mentat]

Quote: ZVO

Quote: Mentat

Quote: voyaka uh

Koreans 50 years ago knew how to make only fishing schooners.
And today, South Korea is number one in the global shipbuilding industry.

The reason there was about the same as with the Chinese, only the Koreans did not invest in the shipbuilding of the Koreans, but the Greeks. They gave orders, technologies in exchange for cheap labor and total discounts. The success of Korean shipbuilding has the name "Lebanon billionaire." The Americans were much more careful, but today they are howling about the "theft of intellectual property."

Did the Greeks own any technology?
Country. in which there is not a single large shipyard ???

Broaden your horizons, read about one of the largest shipyards in the Mediterranean region Hellenic Shipyards, for example, or about another giant - Elefsis.
And do not indulge in question marks, especially when your awareness is so obviously measured by negative values.