Military Review

On J-10, a Chinese vector driven engine was found. Copied?

104
A photo of the Chinese fighter J-10 appeared on the web, equipped with a Chinese-made thrust vectoring engine; Judging by the photos, this technology could be borrowed from Russia, writes the publication Defense News.


On J-10, a Chinese vector driven engine was found. Copied?


The J-10C fighter in the photo is equipped with a modified Chinese-made Shenhang-Liming WS-10 Taihang turbofan engine exhaust nozzle. This is a thrust vectoring engine that significantly improves aircraft maneuverability.

The publication writes that such engines existed until now only in two countries - the United States, where they stand on the F-22, and Russia, where they are used on the Su-30 / 35.

Now, similar engine, apparently, appeared in China. Assumptions about its possible development in China sounded long ago. It was also reported that for the first time J-10C was tested with this engine at the end of the 2017 of the year. So far, experts say, the engine is being tested on a J-10C so that in the future it can be used for the stealth fighter J-20. On serial J-10C, used by the Chinese army, are Russian engines AL-31, leads "Look" opinion Defense News

Judging by the photo published in the web, China borrowed precisely the Russian version of the engine (with axisymmetric deflection of the nozzle). The United States has a fundamentally different version of the design of an engine thrust nozzle with thrust vectoring (with thrust deviation in the vertical plane). Thus, Chinese developers are close to actually stealing another extremely important military technology from Russia, the newspaper writes
Photos used:
https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino
104 comments
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  1. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 April 5 2018 20: 21
    +12
    Communized - Radishes! negative
    1. Muvka
      Muvka April 5 2018 20: 24
      +4
      And as usual, bad. I remember the news on this site then - so there the deviation angles are much smaller than ours.
      1. hrych
        hrych April 5 2018 20: 37
        +47
        They apparently are not aware that the PRC purchased a total of 399 units of AL-31FN in the amount of $ 500 million in 2013. and specifically for the J-10. Therefore, it’s most likely just our engine laughing
        1. ZVO
          ZVO April 5 2018 20: 56
          +1
          Quote: hrych
          AL-31FN


          FN and FP did not confuse?
          FN does not apply to this news. Well, from a word I never ...
          1. hrych
            hrych April 5 2018 21: 25
            +3
            The photograph shows a typical fn. The nozzle is moving or not, it is not visible in the photo, at least there was a video recording.
            1. Scoun
              Scoun April 5 2018 22: 33
              +7
              Quote: hrych
              The photograph shows a typical fn. The nozzle is moving or not, it is not visible in the photo, at least there was a video recording.

              Yes, it’s just that our forum users are not familiar with the ups and downs ...
              I personally confuse Lithuania and Latvia, and it seems like “Saturn” and “Salute” but their background is cooler.
              One Brain, the second parasite of the seller and finalized almost to symbiosis.)))
              True, there are nuances, and the Chinese got nuances .... but quite legally.
              This is for the overseas traders.
              1. KVIRTU
                KVIRTU April 5 2018 23: 13
                +3
                Yes, the photo shows that, in the absence of power, the nozzle is hung down, unlike conventional engines. When you turn on the systems, the UVT will be centered. Further as programmers will try.
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Zhelezyakin
                Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 30
                +4
                In this photo, Salute engine. These motors are equipped with a UVT system that is different from Saturnovsky. From the word - at all. Saturn nozzles are controlled only in one plane, and this was primarily done for twin-engine aircraft. Salyutovskie - all-perspective ... For a single-engine aircraft, I would prefer the FN. Yes, here's just one bad luck - Chengdu (J20) twin-engine. There are still external differences. FN rejects the vector by means of nozzle flaps, FP - the entire module. There are external differences associated with this.
                In the photo below AL 31 FP
              3. Zhelezyakin
                Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 35
                +1
                I also want to note that in the photo (title) the nozzle flaps have an original shape, they even ate to assume that one of our digicators, which I indicated, was taken as a basis, the flaps were reworked ...
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS April 5 2018 21: 22
          +7
          Quote: hrych
          They apparently are not aware that the PRC purchased a total of 399 units of AL-31FN in the amount of $ 500 million in 2013. and specifically for the J-10. Therefore, it’s most likely just our engine

          It’s not worth it ... the Chinese have been exploiting their dvigun since 2005 of the year ... most likely, this is evolution, in terms of the UHT of their dvigun WS-10A.
          Adopted in 2005, Taihang engines used in the PLA in five regiments of the Air Force. Various fighters are equipped with an engine, including the J-11B and the J-15 carrier-based fighter. So far, there have been no accidents due to engine failure in fighters equipped with Taihang engines.

          The expert, Wang Qun, made his remarks after the Russian news website stated that the WS-10A Taihang engine is a copy of the Russian AL-31F. According to the statement, China tried to raise the engine’s operating temperature by 50 degrees Celsius, but due to the manufacturer’s inability to manufacture complex single-crystal vanes, the engine could explode at any time during the flight.

          The site says that the Taihang engine to AL-31F, as to the moon, but Wang, however, does not agree.

          It’s true that China’s engine technology is lagging behind Western technology, but this does not objectively belittle Taihang’s performance. The disadvantages of Taihang are inadequate resource, reliability and stability; otherwise, the gap between Taihang and more advanced engines is not that big, ”Wang said.

          This is how all Chinese experts comment on this.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky April 5 2018 21: 43
            +5
            Quote: NEXUS
            It’s not worth it ... the Chinese have been exploiting their dvigun since 2005 of the year ... most likely, this is evolution, in terms of the UHT of their dvigun WS-10A.

            Here is the answer:
            In the Chinese Internet segment, the first clear photo of the J-10B fighter with a thrust vectoring engine (UHT) appeared.
            Ранее сообщалосьthat China at the end of December 2017 conducted successful flight tests of a proprietary thrust vector (UHT) engine. “Tests of Taihang UHT engines with J-10B fighters will provide valuable experience and data that will be used in the future for practical use on fifth-generation J-20 fighters,” the Chinese site Sina reported.
            “There hasn’t been much information about this modification of the Taihang engine so far, but it’s likely that it used the nozzle technology with axisymmetric deviation of the thrust vector that was previously reported. It allows you to change the thrust vector to 10 degrees in the vertical and horizontal planes ", Sina points out. China is currently continuing to develop the fifth generation fighter J-20. In September 2017 of the year it was announced that this aircraft would be adopted by the Air Force of the People’s Liberation Army of China. According to some media reports, Russian AL-31F series engines were installed on prototypes, but in the future China intends to replace them with its own analogue, WS-15.
            Andrew, hi !
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS April 5 2018 22: 00
              +2
              Quote: Tersky
              Andrew, !

              Vitya hi
              I somehow think that UVT is still not all-round for this dvigun ... and if, after all, I am not right, then I am sure that it is much inferior to our dviguns in the degree of deviation. Well, the resource is lower than the dviguns themselves, as I mentioned above.
              1. Tersky
                Tersky April 5 2018 22: 26
                +7
                Quote: NEXUS
                Well, the resource is lower than the dviguns themselves,

                Somewhere infa slipped that within 300 hours.
                Quote: NEXUS
                I’m sure that in degree of deviation it is much inferior to our dvigunami

                I already wrote below - it is declared 10 degrees, both in the horizon and in the vertical, and how it is in practice request
              2. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell April 6 2018 00: 58
                +2
                Quote: NEXUS
                I think something

                Did the familiar pilots tell you this or did you swipe it off wikipedia? Purely interesting
                1. NN52
                  NN52 April 6 2018 23: 23
                  +1
                  Pete mitchell

                  Sorry .... can he think?

                  If he thinks he’s not ... but if he’s still wrong, then I’m sure ....

              3. Zhelezyakin
                Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 41
                +2
                On a twin-engine aircraft, all-angle is not needed. Pay attention to our Su-shki. The lion's share of UVT in one plane is realized. The left and right engines have a slight deviation of the VT from the diametrical plane of the aircraft, this is more than enough.
          2. hrych
            hrych April 5 2018 21: 44
            +7
            So there is such a keel lineup that there’s nowhere to turn laughing
            1. Tersky
              Tersky April 5 2018 21: 52
              +7
              Quote: hrych
              So there is such a keel lineup that there’s nowhere to turn

              So the answer is there winked
              It allows you to change the thrust vector by 10 degrees in the vertical and horizontal planes "
              wink
            2. NEXUS
              NEXUS April 5 2018 21: 53
              +2
              Quote: hrych
              So there is such a keel lineup that there’s nowhere to turn laughing

              I can assume that this dvigun with UVT, only in some plane, that is, not all-aspect. Maybe I'm wrong. So far, little information about this new modification of the "Chinese".
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell April 6 2018 01: 03
                +3
                Quote: NEXUS
                I can assume ..

                Your assumptions are not very interesting, the opinion of those who fumble, not the copy-paste from wikipedia, is interesting; Is there an opinion on the issue? Or again "from" familiar "pilots?
          3. Zhelezyakin
            Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 38
            +1
            Wang also forgot to add something to his list: - " The disadvantages of Taihang are inadequate resource, reliability and stability., and the lack of certain technologies. A single crystal is one of them.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 April 5 2018 21: 19
        +14
        Quote: Muvka
        There deviation angles are much smaller than ours.

        About 15 years ago, Chinese products were synonymous with poor quality. And now?
        I repeat - they learn fast. And the presence of such a rapidly developing neighbor cannot but alarm. Now they are allegedly with us against the United States. and what will happen tomorrow? soldier
        1. Hariton laptev
          Hariton laptev April 5 2018 21: 45
          +4
          and tomorrow they will say that Siberia is their land and they will simply be occupied.
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat April 5 2018 22: 02
            +6
            why do they need Siberia? they have land - a lot, even cities have built as many as 13 pieces - but there are no inhabitants ....! And they live in the south, on the coast ...
            1. Beltasir matyagu
              Beltasir matyagu April 5 2018 22: 08
              +1
              They mess up everything around. Environmental disaster is the natural result of their activities. Therefore weapons of mass destruction on them
            2. zoolu350
              zoolu350 April 6 2018 00: 54
              +5
              Siberia of the PRC will be needed due to resources. The times when the Chinese captured only those lands where rice can be grown have passed. Now they need wood, uranium, oil, gas, etc. Now on the engines. A vivid example of how a normally developing country should act. If you don’t have any kind of technology, they have “compromised” it, put it into production, and you develop your own on its basis. And you start screaming about successes when the result is achieved, and not at first screaming about "great projects and successes", but at the exit 0, as the Russian oligarchy does.
              1. ZVO
                ZVO April 6 2018 08: 47
                +2
                Quote: zoolu350
                Siberia of the PRC will be needed due to resources. The times when the Chinese captured only those lands where rice can be grown have passed. Now they need wood, uranium, oil, gas, etc.

                Now all this is done much easier.
                Do not grab anything.
                They have so much money now. that they can simply buy everything they need through stocks of enterprises and controlling stakes. and will have that price. which they need.
                do not forget. that war is a prohibitive expense.
                And without war. China - a global manufacturing site - only earns billions of dollars daily.
                And they buy oil and gas, and land in the Crimea and Africa, and everything else.
                Refining oil and gas - again earns on surplus value and buys again.
                Etc.
                Etc.

                They can simply deliver an ultimatum, that would be without war. but this is only if Russia has a conflict from the west ...
        2. Beltasir matyagu
          Beltasir matyagu April 5 2018 22: 10
          0
          They learn but it is a half-rational activity. To do something first, he must come up with a white sahib and show them. The Chinese are not a very reasonable breed
          1. dauria
            dauria April 5 2018 23: 05
            +13
            The Chinese are not a very reasonable breed


            The 52nd Mathematical Olympiad, held in Amsterdam, was attended by 564 participants from the 101st country. The winner this year, as over the past few years, was China. The second place went to the US team (almost half consisting of Chinese). Third place is in Singapore, fourth in Russia. Then Thailand, Turkey, DPRK, Taiwan. The top ten includes Iran.

            For 10 years now, China has been the undisputed leader in Olympiad physics. This year, Taiwan overtook him, where there is a state program for working with gifted children. China is followed by Thailand, Indonesia, India; in the top ten - Iran, Japan, the United States (in an American team of five people, as a rule, there are three Chinese and one Indian)

            This is the year 2011. The remaining years are even worse for Russia. We continue to talk about the "stupid Chinese"? Oh well. Only reason is not transmitted by inheritance and it is not in the genes. The generation of Pepsi and Klinsky Advanced Beer proved this wonderfully.
            1. Hammerlock
              Hammerlock April 6 2018 04: 53
              +3
              The generation of Pepsi and Klinsky Advanced Beer proved this wonderfully.

              plus to this USE, because of which graduates stupidly drag on tests last year, but there is no knowledge, as such
            2. prorab_ak
              prorab_ak April 6 2018 15: 18
              0
              Quote: dauria
              The generation of Pepsi and Klinsky Advanced Beer proved this wonderfully.

              I wouldn’t be so excited, of course. In biology and computer science in 2016 and 2017, the first places were taken.
              It seems that it is not ours that have sagged so much in talents and education, we have been stable with talents from year to year. This is the Chinese very powerfully rushed. They have a targeted program in this direction .... the same thing they had with the athletes (preparation for the Olympics)
        3. Lock36
          Lock36 April 5 2018 22: 33
          +5
          // About 15 years ago, Chinese products were synonymous with poor quality. And now?
          And now where they didn’t buy, they stole technology (for example, on special alloys) - complete bullshit as before. And you did not know, right?
          1. KVIRTU
            KVIRTU April 5 2018 23: 33
            +3
            About bought I do not know. They stole and will steal. In the Crimea, I’ll say that they stole all the documentation for NITKA (copied), they built it for themselves.
            1. akims
              akims April 6 2018 08: 53
              0
              Not stolen, bought. Like the Bison.
          2. Mih1974
            Mih1974 April 6 2018 17: 38
            +2
            And let's put the question even more rigidly - What or How did the Chinese achieve and offer the World what had not happened before? The answer (positive) is only one - this is their Country Management System. good Everything else is copy-paste. I do not want to seem like a chauvinist, but the Russians (or rather the Russians, because something is changing a person in Russia) - there is simply an incessant and gushing "cornucopia" of all sorts of ideas. The list of inventions of Russians (we will not be nationalists, for we are the Empire) which for one reason or another were later picked up or “brought to a salable condition” is simply endless. The most epic here is Yablochkov’s bulb, Popov’s radio, and (here is the collective) this is the centrifuge separation of isotopes.
            I have already referred to the last achievement many times, but once again - under the "bloody tyrant" Stalin, scientists, contrary to the global trend of "civilized countries", did what all scientists (all varieties and species) = clearly called IMPOSSIBLE fool , well, from the word completely impossible. And in the “terrible Mordor,” they took and did what made essentially peaceful use of the atom, for the “civilized” used the “only possible” technology, which in fact was commercially unprofitable. And then nuclear plants were built, which became an even greater impetus to the development of mankind. And in general - some countries (France) now generally produce 80% of petricaria at nuclear power plants.
            Yes, it’s already proud of “Kalash” as a bad manners, but we will be proud of it because our Russian, simple peasant did what most countries have become a symbol of Freedom in their countries. Little is born smart, it is necessary that your Country is able to educate you, allow you to develop intelligence and create for the good of the Country, and not go to "lick your boots" to the stronger and more cruel. On which incidentally Naglia, and then the USA, rose in due time. In fact, of all the American inventors, only Edis and the Wright brothers are worth something for the World. But without everyone else, the World would have completely managed to do it. tongue
            About China in general - only in ancient antiquity did they "make" several inventions. Yes, and that is a “must see”: people used to make a compass without them, instead of paper they used papyrus or leather (although humanity would have stuck specifically with cellulose paper), silk - everything is cloudy here, even in China itself there are legends that silk technology was "brought by the Princess" (forgotten name), porcelain - and that kind of was not so much a technology as the use of a single deposit of special clays and became just Technology in the time of Lomonosov. The only thing that is indisputably Chinese is Gunpowder, but here History directly mocked them. The Chinese even made some kind of guns and grenades, but all this "did not take root" and only after being transferred to Europe did it develop rapidly and after a couple of centuries, China itself was made "standing up" by a firearm. belay tongue
            Therefore, forgive all the Sinophiles, but - China is a lifetime historical LUSER. negative Yes, their “rebirth from the ashes” is worthy of praise, but right now you’re already “waiting” when they all go through again. lol
            1. NN52
              NN52 April 6 2018 23: 20
              +1
              Mih1974

              Regarding the LOSER, at this stage of time I agree 100% ...
              Further, they may grow wiser ...
        4. Swag
          Swag April 6 2018 03: 18
          0
          What do you suppose? The war?))) Or how? It would be easier for them to quietly buy all that is possible, with the officials together, they had time and money. But something is not very eager for the north, there are more favorable ones places-southeast Asia, Africa, Europe ...
        5. Zhelezyakin
          Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 48
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          About 15 years ago, Chinese products were synonymous with poor quality. And now?

          From the part I agree with you, however, to do the WFD, this is not to sew sneakers. Need a school, time and resources. There are no problems with resources, with time, there and there. But with the school ... In the 2000s, a lot of Chinese people at our 2nd faculty studied at the Moscow Aviation Institute, but whether it’s good for them, it’s another question.
      3. Alber
        Alber April 6 2018 12: 58
        0
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Communized - Radishes! negative

        Quote: Muvka
        And as usual, bad.

        ))) who would doubt that they will commit communism!
        Almost one and a half billion people. So many people without work, out of boredom, at least do something ...
        So we found a good niche
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z April 5 2018 20: 36
      +3
      Everything is for sale and everything is for sale! A disgrace .... In pursuit of today's candy wrapper they sell everything and are probably hiding behind good intentions !!!
      1. san4es
        san4es April 5 2018 20: 49
        +3
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Everything is for sale and everything is for sale!

        In this video you will learn about the air forces of the People's Liberation Army of China. This video includes aircraft of all three forces (Air Force, Navy, and Ground Forces) 2018.
        1. cniza
          cniza April 5 2018 21: 02
          +3
          We are waiting for a lot of interesting things to come.
          1. san4es
            san4es April 5 2018 21: 08
            +3
            hi ... All the best to the children.
      2. Maz
        Maz April 5 2018 20: 52
        +3
        Have you really thought that China handles, kisses, supports us with beautiful eyes?
      3. New Year day
        New Year day April 5 2018 22: 04
        +5
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Everything is for sale and everything is for sale! Shame ...

        a little bit on the topic. After the collapse of the USSR, it was not possible to organize a closed tank production cycle in Ukraine. The absence of a cannon, which was delivered from Perm, was crucial in Ukraine. The documentation for the gun in the design bureau was, but there was no technology for its production.
        Thanks to the greed of Russian officials, the production technology of guns was transferred to Ukraine. Moreover, specialists from a Russian plant for a separate payment established this production at Ukrainian plants. So in Ukraine there was its own tank gun.
      4. Alber
        Alber April 6 2018 12: 59
        0
        Quote: Starover_Z
        Everything is for sale and everything is for sale! A disgrace .... In pursuit of today's candy wrapper they sell everything and are probably hiding behind good intentions !!!

        Gorbachev showed the way. Stavropol Per Sec horseradish
    3. Gronsky
      Gronsky April 5 2018 21: 08
      +6
      What is shown in the picture does not look like an engine with a variable thrust vector. Rather, it is simply a nozzle apparatus with an adjustable flow area. The system is quite old and has been used for a long time.


      This is what the Su-35 nozzle unit looks like. The differences are obvious.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan April 5 2018 21: 38
        +1
        The power is directly felt, although this is a photograph, in general it is impressive in live ...
      2. Zhelezyakin
        Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 09: 53
        +2
        Quote: Gronsky
        Rather, it is simply a nozzle apparatus with an adjustable flow area.

        Dear, at least do not be fooled. The engine with afterburner does not work normally and does not have multi-mode without adjusting the critical part of the nozzle. What you presented in the picture is just one of several existing VT control systems. There is also AL31 FN, developed at Salute. And its nozzle is not very different from what the Chinese comrades presented ...
        1. Gronsky
          Gronsky April 6 2018 15: 45
          0
          That would have shown, in support of their words.
          1. Zhelezyakin
            Zhelezyakin April 6 2018 16: 02
            +2
            Well, since you yourself do not want to use the search, please:
            Salyutovsky nozzle development:

            Kytaysky will find in the header. Anything else?
            Other types of UVT:
            F-22

            F-35 (The same principle as on the Yak 141 aircraft)

            Although its purpose is somewhat different, like Hariera (see below)
            1. Gronsky
              Gronsky April 7 2018 19: 16
              0
              What are you talking about? request
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 5 2018 21: 10
      +3
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Communized - Radishes! negative

      So far, I think, the resource of such a dvigun is lower than ours and mattresses .... Yes, and the new J-10 and J-20 themselves do not reach the F-22 and SU-57 fighters.
      1. drunkram
        drunkram April 6 2018 20: 59
        0
        Do not reach at least because it is a light single-engine fighter
    5. Dam
      Dam April 5 2018 21: 12
      +1
      Oh oh Just like that, I determined the copied engine by eye. Well expert! And if without jokes, then our sales of something to China understand that copying is possible. I do not know what is right or wrong, but it is better that they have weapons, for we cannot deal with the hegemon in one person
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 5 2018 22: 02
          +1
          They will copy! We must move forward!
  2. mig29mks
    mig29mks April 5 2018 20: 21
    +8
    And if the Chinese begin to copy Russian people, finally the horror will begin.
    1. Alexander 3
      Alexander 3 April 5 2018 20: 45
      +3
      our guys have to go to China to make the country look like us. They’re genes like that. I don’t mean the name.
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 April 6 2018 00: 59
        +2
        Though we’ll all go to China and regenerate the Chinese and Chinese, nothing will come of it. From the Chinese and Chinese come ONLY the Chinese and Chinese. They have powerful genes.
    2. Tusv
      Tusv April 5 2018 21: 06
      0
      Quote: mig29mks
      And if the Chinese begin to copy Russian people, finally the horror will begin
      .
      Who knows. For China, Russia within walking distance and iPhone did, releasing a model abruptly
    3. Tersky
      Tersky April 5 2018 21: 54
      +6
      Quote: mig29mks
      And if the Chinese begin to copy Russian people

      First, let them stop cloning themselves, probably already lost count. yes
    4. Yuyuka
      Yuyuka April 6 2018 01: 10
      +3
      Quote: mig29mks
      And if the Chinese begin to copy Russian people, finally the horror will begin.


      they are copying them now! just the same, the Chinese are getting ... wassat
  3. Solomon Kane
    Solomon Kane April 5 2018 20: 22
    +6
    Yes, there is a glider with 1.44 licked ....
    "Kings of the replica" .... wassat
    1. avt
      avt April 5 2018 20: 30
      +4
      Quote: Solomon Kane
      Yes, there is a glider with 1.44 licked ....

      Semen! Don’t play the fool, they need Fedotov! wassat It’s quite with them, “Lavi”, with Jewish help, which the US banned Jews from doing in Israel ..
      1. Solomon Kane
        Solomon Kane April 5 2018 20: 41
        +5
        Absolutely right, mon cher! Confused with J-20 .....
        But in fact - the meaning remains, plagiarism est plagiarism .....
    2. Tusv
      Tusv April 5 2018 22: 44
      +1
      Quote: Solomon Kane
      Yes, there is a glider with 1.44 licked ...
      .
      I am curious. Where did the Europeans have such a fashion for the triangular wing, without a rear stabilizer and with slats. One-to-one layout of Valkyries and Tu 144. Development of the 60s of the last century. Who was the first to invent this? It somehow coincided that We sold the Yankees Tu 144 and raced. Where is Rafal, Where is Grippen, Where is Eurofighter - FIG distinguish without nuances, and the Chinese are not far behind
      1. Solomon Kane
        Solomon Kane April 6 2018 01: 01
        +4
        The 144th wing is animated (with variable sweep of the leading edge)

        The XB-70 Valkyrie is triangular or deltoid

        And the theme with the “cocked hat” has its roots in 1937 in the USA, in the Sikorsky firm. The ideological father of this idea was the Russian emigrant Mikhail Glukharyov.
        In the same year, 1937, this form of the wing finds its place in the TsAGI designs ..... the Strela SAM-9 aircraft.
        Nevertheless, all laurels, the introduction of a wing of a triangular shape in aerodynamics, went to the German designer Alexander Lippisch, whose unfinished glider in 1945 was discovered by American troops in Germany.
        Striped, in the usual manner for them, grabbed the Lippish theme and, together with the creator, dragged it to themselves ......
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets April 5 2018 20: 23
    +4
    "actually steal another extremely important military technology from Russia"

    Maybe, after all, an idea, not a technology? what
  5. Vladimir Ter-Odiyants
    Vladimir Ter-Odiyants April 5 2018 20: 24
    0
    Most likely a license ?! But I would like to hear the Russian version of the official comment.
    1. ALEXXX1983
      ALEXXX1983 April 6 2018 00: 25
      0
      Quote: Vladimir Ter-Odiyants
      Most likely a license ?! But I would like to hear the Russian version of the official comment.

      When did the Chinese license worry?
  6. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi April 5 2018 20: 32
    +5
    What is it like.
    1. Solomon Kane
      Solomon Kane April 5 2018 20: 50
      +7
      .... and comments in a language "familiar to all" ... wink
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 5 2018 21: 57
        +2
        Konstantin, it’s like the Chinese bought this product in Israel. They even went to China to set up production. hi
    2. Maz
      Maz April 5 2018 20: 54
      0
      Covered with US attempts, the road and nozzles are not the same for him. junk.
    3. thinker
      thinker April 5 2018 21: 55
      +2
      When developing this machine, probably the most unusual international symbiosis arose, which brought together Chinese, Israeli and Russian specialists.
      The Chinese designers took the Israeli plane IAI “Lavi” as the basis of the fighter

      https://topwar.ru/43050-kitayskiy-mnogocelevoy-is
      trebitel-chengdu-j-10.html
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Tusv
      Tusv April 5 2018 22: 57
      +1
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      What is it like

      Zirim Valkyrie and Tu 144. Well, to what extent they are similar. Oops 60s of the last century. You still didn’t have a Golan. hi
  7. Heterocapsa
    Heterocapsa April 5 2018 20: 37
    0
    Externally, copying is not a problem, but the content and its settings can’t be really washed away so that’s all garbage.
  8. Herculesic
    Herculesic April 5 2018 20: 40
    +1
    They warmed a snake on their chest! fool I always said that the Chinese are only temporary fellow travelers. That you can only expect nasty things from them, and for us they are no better than the United States or Europe.
    1. Beltasir matyagu
      Beltasir matyagu April 5 2018 22: 24
      +2
      Chinese beast with an alien ethic. I know that for sure. They always need to have a plan b. Something like a guaranteed total erasure from the face of the earth in case of the slightest aggression. And be sure to attend to quickly and cleanly
  9. K-50
    K-50 April 5 2018 20: 43
    +1
    Chinese developers are close to actually stealing another crucial military technology from Russia

    Copier country. lol
  10. Roman 11
    Roman 11 April 5 2018 21: 00
    +3
    The Communist comrades love to photocopy - how many people have been snooped around, now they have taken up the technique. There will probably be 12 Varangians at sea, so that 1 more competitors, then complete celestial over exceptional .... like this is called megalomania. That they are accelerating the economy, that they are increasing armaments have nothing with common sense, this comrade chairman is somewhat ill, the American is also not quite inside, but one can understand him - they are crushing him.

    It is believed that the USSR race or fever didn’t go to anyone, Trump or Xi. We then fools like weird ones, confronted the whole west and China was suspicious. We are now not allowed to unwind the flywheel of this mill, the fool quickly pulls. Nowhere to do the loot, get involved in the economy. We have a lot of work to do - to clean the Volga, bring the iron to Yakutsk, do machine tools, make competitive machines like Japanese, etc., there is no talk about household appliances and computers yet, everything is there, everything is in the defense industry.
  11. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 21: 10
    0
    You can copy jeans and then conditionally, in the production of engines you can only borrow the idea and do it again, but worse is better, it really depends on many factors
  12. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 21: 14
    +5
    Engine design began in 1973, the first tests passed in 1977, state tests were completed in 1985. Since 1981, AL-31 engines have been manufactured at UMPO (Ufa) and MMPP Salyut (Moscow).

    Modification AL-31F with a lower arrangement of the box of units for the Chinese fighter Chengdu J-10. It has an increased traction force of 200 kgf compared with the basic version. Designed by MMPP Salute. China purchased a total of 399 AL-31FN units worth $ 500 million in 2013

    AL-41F1S (Product 117C)

    The engine of the "first stage" for the 4 ++ Su-35BM generation fighter, adopted by the Russian Air Force (now VKS) under the designation Su-35C, with a thrust of 14 kgs in full afterburner (000 in emergency mode). It is created on the basis of AL-14500F, AL-31FP and AL-31F engines. Despite the scheme similar to AL-41F, the engine consists of 31% new parts. It is distinguished from its predecessors by increased thrust (80 [14000] kgf vs. 14 for AL-12500F), a fully digital control system, a plasma ignition system, a new compressor with a larger diameter, a significantly increased service life (31 hours versus 4000 for AL-1000F) and improved consumables characteristics [31]. The gearbox is located on top of the engine. The development cost amounted to 13 billion rubles.

    I'm not happy with anyone and what, but to sell the old and outdated, for this money to develop a completely new, in my opinion, excellent profit.
  13. Des10
    Des10 April 5 2018 21: 14
    +3
    After all, the point is not in the copying itself, but in the ability to do it. That is, they have enough finances, forces, industries, scientific organizations and programs for moving forward. Let it be based on the experience of others. We started rockets, jets, cars \ motorcycles --- not from scratch.
    The scientific and technical base is striking - as if nothing is impossible for them.
    1. Beltasir matyagu
      Beltasir matyagu April 5 2018 22: 31
      +1
      They do not have a scientific and technical base, not laid in the DNA. I’ll tell you a secret, they’re secretly and obviously supplying technology from the West in recent years. As well as trillions of money and the loading of industries built on Western money. All other things are a by-product of the initial pumping of ready-made technologies and a sea of ​​money and orders without a hint of competition! The competition was not originally laid down by Western authors because the Chinese world factory was created for a ready-bound, attached market! When the Chinese goods were zero, they all the same declared everything at the price of dirt so that the normal goods disappeared with local manufacturers. Clones and imitations of consumer goods all. Generally all by-product.
  14. Second major
    Second major April 5 2018 21: 32
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Muvka
    There deviation angles are much smaller than ours.

    About 15 years ago, Chinese products were synonymous with poor quality. And now?
    I repeat - they learn fast. And the presence of such a rapidly developing neighbor cannot but alarm. Now they are allegedly with us against the United States. and what will happen tomorrow? soldier

    And tomorrow, if that, a strain of bird / swine flu mowing individuals with Asian DNA.
  15. Straga
    Straga April 5 2018 21: 38
    +3
    My neighbor worked on OBT for the 29th. Before his death (late 90s and early 2000s) he talked about how Americans and Chinese tried to UNDERSTAND how it works. Could not. He said they see. They are watching. But they don’t understand. Spoke promised huge money. give out a secret. Moreover, the plant management required. He is in no way. He filed a patent. Died of cancer. My relative died of such a diagnosis. He worked at the GRU. In the Turkish-Syrian direction. Hugo Chavez too. From cancer.
    1. Straga
      Straga April 5 2018 22: 00
      +1


      That’s why our people don’t take it off?
      1. Azazelo
        Azazelo April 6 2018 09: 01
        0
        Well, ours - they are fighting for real in Syria. And to whom to shoot? We don’t have a director who can make a normal film about modern warfare.
    2. misti1973
      misti1973 April 6 2018 04: 40
      0
      Chases (more precisely, drove
  16. BAI
    BAI April 5 2018 21: 41
    +1
    As far as I know, China originally bought our aircraft with two sets of engines. Engines then put on the aircraft of its development.
  17. BABA SHURA
    BABA SHURA April 5 2018 23: 51
    0
    I am sure this is a gift for money from the Russians. And soon Salute.
  18. HMR333
    HMR333 April 6 2018 01: 25
    0
    trying in every possible way to pit and make each other hate! because they know that they buy engines in Russia and there were attempts to scalp but unsuccessfully pump up materials from them! so pure propaganda! let them better remember how they got abrams !!!? which the Germans did and they refused to buy and a little change released an abroms!
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. misti1973
    misti1973 April 6 2018 04: 35
    0
    Why be surprised, they won so much "from the USA" in the USA that Trump considered this a reason for declaring a real trade war! I did not think, by the way, that it would come to that.
  21. Graz
    Graz April 6 2018 04: 51
    0
    there the main secret is not so much in the design as in the technology of the composition of the alloys of the blades if I am not mistaken
  22. Wolka
    Wolka April 6 2018 05: 00
    +1
    unequivocally slammed in Russia, the difference is possible only in the resource of nodes
  23. Azazelo
    Azazelo April 6 2018 08: 48
    0
    Well, they stole 70% of their military equipment from us, which is something to be surprised at. It’s a pity that we will remain silent again and haven’t put forward any reports against the Chinese, and it would not be bad to bring money to our LII for the use of technology. And then they all want to enter paradise on someone else's hump.
  24. ivan0vitch
    ivan0vitch April 6 2018 08: 53
    +2
    Stolen? and the wheel, invented presumably in the territory of present-day Slovenia, has the other countries also stolen?) there is such a thing, progress is called. The Chinese are investing n-th number of man-hours and money, progressing in engine building
  25. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 6 2018 09: 19
    0
    Nobody could come up with a cart with five wheels. Therefore, all the carts are similar to each other. You can not judge by appearance, especially since the whole secret is not in form, but in the recipe of steel.
  26. gukoyan
    gukoyan April 6 2018 09: 48
    0
    Even if they copy, then technology will not allow them to make a high-quality replica of our engines, which means those engines that have been purchased for a long time are worth it.
  27. Alex NEWS
    Alex NEWS April 6 2018 13: 23
    0
    The Chinese are GOOD. They do not care about international law. They are doing everything for the sake of their economy and security. And Russia is looking at everyone. It does not copy deep-water drilling technology, since it is plagiarism. And so any examples. We, as terpils, simply abide by the laws, which for a long time have all been stammered and bent by ourselves.
  28. Normal ok
    Normal ok April 6 2018 17: 40
    0
    Chinese and Russian are brothers forever. Therefore, they take everything to which they can reach, - fraternally.