Military Review

Expert: Modernization of weapons "Anteev" will not increase the possibilities for the destruction of aircraft carriers

57
Modernization of weapons on submarines project 949A "Antey" will not lead to a significant increase in the ability to defeat enemy aircraft carrier forces, leads Lenta.ru report opinion of Doctor of Military Sciences, Deputy President of the Russian Academy of Rocket and Artillery Sciences, Captain First Rank Konstantin Sivkov.




The modernization gave a significant increase in compliance with modern conditions of combat use, mainly due to the universalization of missile weapons, as well as an increase in the ammunition load by three times. However, the increase in the effectiveness of the main task of "Antey" - the defeat of the enemy aircraft carrier forces - turned out to be a relatively modest, disproportionate increase in the number of anti-ship anti-ship missiles,
noted Sivkov.

According to him, such a small increase is due to the fact that the Onyx anti-ship missiles have a shorter firing range (according to open press data), which is almost equal to the latest modifications of the short-range Garpun and X-35 260-280 missiles.

Obviously, this is unacceptably low for the fight against aircraft carrier units. In addition, a significantly smaller warhead of Onyx requires approximately one and a half times more hits to destroy an aircraft carrier, which significantly reduces the combat effectiveness of the modernized Antey,
said the expert.

On the other hand, according to Sivkov, "there is reason to expect that the Onyx missiles for the" main customer "have a significantly longer firing range than is declared."

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported that the Russian nuclear submarines of the 949A project will be upgraded to 949AM with the replacement of the main Granit missile system with Onyx and Caliber.
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org
57 comments
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  1. vadimtt
    vadimtt April 5 2018 13: 21
    +8
    Well, if 260-280 km in real life turn into 600-800 km, then everything will be in a bundle.
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 April 5 2018 13: 27
      +6
      Quote: vadimtt
      Well, if 260-280 km in real life turn into 600-800 km, then everything will be in a bundle.

      according to the pike, according to my desire, fly the rocket wherever you want and as much as you want. lol
      1. ioan-e
        ioan-e April 5 2018 14: 00
        +14
        In vain irony. The Bramos was tested by the Indians at a distance of about 450 km, it was developed on the basis of the Yakhont, which is an export version of the Onyx. And what do you think, would the Russian Federation sell something stronger than its own over the hill? Onyx stands on the Bastions, and should not fly further than 500 km on the INF. And under another agreement, cruise missiles delivered for export should not fly further than 300 km. When used as a submarine platform, the 500 km limit disappears automatically! Information that onyx can fly at a distance of about 800 km has long appeared on the "Military Review" - https://topwar.ru/112398-oniks-800-km-mif-ili-rea
        lnost.html
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 April 5 2018 14: 13
          +2
          Quote: ioan-e
          In vain irony.

          I’m not ironic about this. about how it was said.
          "in real life turn"
          в real nothing turns
          are turning in fairy tales
          hi
          1. hrych
            hrych April 5 2018 14: 53
            +9
            Firstly, Antei lost the narrow specialization of Killer Aircraft Carriers, Caliber on it, incl. to attack stationary targets. Those. Antey became a carrier of strategic Kyrgyz Republic. If you recall the Granites, then the half-megaton charge did not require flying into the side, undermining here almost immediately after jumping out from the horizon, when there is no time for reaction, who said that the anti-ship missiles Caliber and Onyxes would use conventional weapons when attacking the United States. Consequently, 300 (Onyx) -450 (Caliber) kg of HE explosive, change to lighter 150-300 kiloton nuclei, which do not exceed 100-200 kg in weight, of course, the range of application increases significantly with a decrease in the cast weight. In the case of the Caliber for stationary purposes, an average of 1000 km (proportion, like the Tomahawk) in the RCC version, the increase will be a couple of hundred kilometers. Therefore, a fairy tale affects yes, the thing is done laughing
        2. Alex777
          Alex777 April 5 2018 14: 39
          +6
          This Sivkov is such a Sivkov ... A dream about not a dream, about not a dream a dream ... (from Ali Baba). What I wrote, why - is unclear.
          Smart people have long said that if the Volcano flies 1000 km, then no admiral in his sober mind will order the next missile with a half radius. But there is - Onyxes are used in coastal complexes, and the restrictions on INF are applied to them. So we’re fooling around about 500 km along a high-altitude trajectory. The issue of guidance at a distance of 1000 km is not the topic of the current discussion.
          https://vz.ru/news/2018/2/8/907443.html
          hi
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 April 5 2018 19: 47
            +2
            Quote: Alex777
            not a single admiral in his sober mind will order the next missile with a half radius. But

            yeah, it was, then, X-22, and then they took it, scratched it, and ordered the X-35. Probably, it was then that the strongest magnetic storm was, the solar wind moved hair not only on the head
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 April 6 2018 12: 30
              +1
              ..the solar wind moved hair not only on the head ..

              This was when you compared a finger with a stick. hi
              X-22 is necessary with the X-32, and not with the X-35.
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 April 6 2018 13: 17
                +1
                lack of attention leads you to the fact that you again
                Quote: Alex777
                finger and stick compared

                and the comment was written on this:
                Quote: Alex777
                people have long said that if the Volcano flies 1000 km, then no admiral in his sober mind will order the next missile with a half radius

                Quote: Gregory_45
                yeah, it was, then, X-22, and then they took it, scratched it, and ordered the X-35

                X-22 and X-35 flight ranges, exactly like the year they were accepted for service, are you attentive to us? And then again, it’s not right to begin to compare laughing
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 April 6 2018 16: 24
                  +1
                  Rest. wink
                  X-22 should be compared with the X-32, and not with the X-35.
                  1. Grigory_45
                    Grigory_45 April 6 2018 17: 06
                    0
                    Quote: Alex777
                    Have a rest

                    Apparently, it was you in your life who never bothered to strain. Even thinking is laziness. Or just do not know how.
                    Quote: Alex777
                    X-22 must be compared with the X-32, and not with the X-35

                    nobody compares the rockets themselves, except you, they gave you an example for a completely different reason. But - idleness does not, does not make it clear ... The gray matter is no longer gray. Caliber, by the way, they also adopted it after the Volcano, and its range in the RCC variant is less. The incomprehensible meaning for you is that the military order themselves such missiles as they need, and not solely on the principle of "higher, further, greater," as you funny told us here.
                    Quote: Alex777
                    Smart people have long said that if the Volcano flies 1000 km, then no admiral in his sober mind will order the next missile with a half-radius.

                    not very smart people told you this, but you repeat after them.
      2. Forcecom
        Forcecom April 5 2018 14: 28
        +1
        for 2008 - vertical launch of 320 km.
        - inclined launch 350 km.
        this is for a single missile, the salvo range is lower by 15-20%
        It is impossible to significantly increase the flight range within this missile (data from military representatives who worked on this topic)
    2. Setrac
      Setrac April 6 2018 20: 42
      +2
      Quote: vadimtt
      Well, if 260-280 km in real life turn into 600-800 km, then everything will be in a bundle.

      Underwater-based harpoons fire only 70-80 km.
  2. sir_obs
    sir_obs April 5 2018 13: 22
    +3
    “There is reason to expect that Onyx missiles for the“ main customer ”have a significantly greater firing range than what is declared”

    That is, in fact, issued a state secret.

    Although at first he covered himself as an open source, writing that

    RCC "Onyx" has a smaller firing range (according to open press)
  3. helmi8
    helmi8 April 5 2018 13: 23
    +5
    due to the universalization of missile weapons, as well as a triple increase in ammunition.

    requires about one and a half times more hits to defeat an aircraft carrier

    On the other hand, according to Sivkov, "there is reason to expect that the Onyx missiles for the" main customer "have a significantly longer firing range than is declared."

    So what is the article and expert conclusions about?
    1. avt
      avt April 5 2018 13: 25
      +12
      Quote: helmi8
      So what is the article and expert conclusions about?

      Yes, about nothing, like other opuses of this author.
      1. jjj
        jjj April 5 2018 13: 40
        +1
        So the “Granite” could hit only one missile, a maximum of two. The rest went astray by the forces of AUG. Yes, and one missile without UBF could not cause catastrophic damage to the main ship
        1. sir_obs
          sir_obs April 5 2018 13: 50
          +5
          This is what is meant by such damage. Damage can be serious enough to disrupt the implementation of the main combat mission.
          For some reason, attention is concentrated only on damage to the materiel. What about the crew?
          Shakes so that half will no longer be able to fulfill their direct duties.

          Even during the tests of the old Amethyst, according to the destroyer, when she passed exactly between the pipes and exploded three meters above the deck, the sensors showed that the crew basically would not have suffered such a shake.

          In addition, it carried out the entire middle part of the ship, tore off all the mechanisms from the foundations, and even the shaft lines were damaged.
          And for aircraft carriers it’s enough to jam lifts or brake cable drives, the aircraft will be locked. Not to mention the fires, it's a floating gas station.
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 April 5 2018 19: 42
            +1
            Quote: sir_obs
            Even on the tests of an old Amethyst, according to the destroyer

            It’s very clever to compare a destroyer of 2 thousand tons and an airfield of 100 thousand tons. Of course, from a collision with the pillar "Eye" and the tank will suffer exactly the same))
            Quote: sir_obs
            And for aircraft carriers it’s enough to jam lifts or brake cable drives, the aircraft will be locked. Not to mention fires, it's a floating gas station

            Do you know how to drown any ship? In fact, everything is very simple! It is only necessary to give it negative buoyancy. The trick is how to achieve this.
        2. Forcecom
          Forcecom April 5 2018 14: 39
          +2
          It is enough to damage the flight deck, plus from a strong concussion, steam catapults (electromagnetic ones can also cover themselves) could very likely get off the bed - this can be done with 1 missile and this is enough to not cause serious structural damage to the aircraft carrier turning into an unworkable bucket going for repairs.
    2. raw174
      raw174 April 5 2018 13: 32
      +6
      Quote: helmi8
      So what is the article and expert conclusions about?

      The fact that if they are still not very, then most likely then and possibly everyone will be able to do something that is not difficult to guess, and if not, then why then, because it is clear! wassat
      Any such thoughts after reading ...
    3. Dam
      Dam April 5 2018 13: 46
      +3
      Bullshit mare's delirium. I do not know anything, but I draw expert conclusions. But maybe. And in the Moscow Region donkeys are completely sitting, what are they re-equipping with more inefficient weapons?
  4. annodomene
    annodomene April 5 2018 13: 24
    +9
    Judging by the title of the article, it should be understood that the available opportunities are enough to defeat the ACG.
    By the way - in the photo for the K-186 article, I was on it as part of the first crew, in the SF. But then the boat was transferred to the Pacific Fleet. Why, I still do not understand ...
  5. dvina71
    dvina71 April 5 2018 13: 24
    +8
    In the public domain, Onyx data with the letter E .., according to international law, their range is limited to 300 km .. How did the expert get the idea that these ONyxes are on Russian ships?
    I often hear Sivkov’s news on the radio .. he sometimes carries such a blizzard .., already surprisingly .. like a military man.
    1. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber April 5 2018 13: 42
      +1
      I agree, completely !! Never heard from him, something worthwhile!
      He, by chance, was not a political officer? There are a lot of them, after the well-known events, "pereobulsya", in experts, of various kinds ..
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 April 5 2018 13: 53
      +5
      Quote: dvina71
      I often hear Sivkova on the radio .. he sometimes carries such a blizzard

      Duc, he is not alone. The president recently complained about Peskov just like that. yes It seems that a new profession has appeared - a swindler. wassat
    3. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 5 2018 20: 23
      +1
      Quote: dvina71
      In the public domain, Onyx data with the letter E .., according to international law, their range is limited to 300 km .. How did the expert get the idea that these ONyxes are on Russian ships?

      probably, for you, if not an expert, it will be surprising to hear such data: the Onyx range (3M55) is up to 500 km along a high-altitude trajectory, a little more than 100 along a low-altitude trajectory. After chemizing with Bramos, it flew 450, not 600 or 800 km. So nonsense is everything from the field of unscientific imagination. In addition, what is the point of talking about the maximum range in isolation from the flight path? The maximum range is realized on a high-altitude trajectory, which is completely unsuitable for a breakthrough of air defense. Total - even 300 km - it will be gorgeous. But in practice. in real life, still sadder
  6. Wedmak
    Wedmak April 5 2018 13: 25
    +2
    Well, there will be two hits of Onyx in the deck of Avik, instead of one hit of Granite. What is the problem? All the same, this is an unambiguous failure for months ... And if by a miracle it touches the cellar with weapons, it will be easier to flood this trough.
    1. annodomene
      annodomene April 5 2018 13: 31
      +3
      Plus specifically for 949A - "Shooting 2-pl." In theory should be enough. And the “Granite” starting mass hoo what.
    2. jjj
      jjj April 5 2018 13: 46
      0
      Quote: Wedmak
      Well, there will be two hits of Onyx in the deck of Avik, instead of one hit of Granite. What is the problem? All the same, this is an unambiguous failure for months ... And if by a miracle it touches the cellar with weapons, it will be easier to flood this trough.

      In the "times of glasnost" I read the calculations that even hitting the usual "Granite" only takes the ship out for repair. Yes, the operation is frustrating, but not destroying. It’s very difficult to drown an aircraft carrier without a warhead
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak April 26 2018 18: 28
        0
        It’s very difficult to drown an aircraft carrier without a warhead

        Yes, actually not necessary. This is not a cruiser or a battleship, which even if you tear off the stern or tank, they will still shoot. In fact, this is a huge barge without armor with a flight deck full of explosives.
  7. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 13: 39
    +13
    Or his expertise is fake. either he is really stupid. An aircraft carrier does not have to be drowned at all. Hit at least one bomb, or rockets on the deck makes it useless. You can’t take off, you can also land (and if there are no friendly airfields nearby, and fuel at the end?) Aircraft in an aircraft carrier are located inside in several tiers. When hit, the entire complex system of lifting mechanisms is wrinkled. For everything else, it’s also thousands and thousands of tons of a variety of fuels and lubricants, which, when ignited, will have the effect of a Molotov cocktail. I don’t recall daring to use these floating coffins against countries that have at least some means of dealing with flying jackets. Only against weak countries with outdated weapons.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 5 2018 13: 54
      +2
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      An aircraft carrier does not have to be drowned at all. Hit at least one bomb, or rockets on the deck makes it useless. You can’t take off, you can also land (and if there are no friendly airfields nearby, and the fuel is running out?)

      For AB, damage to the catapults or finisher is more critical. And the Yankees even in WWII learned to restore the flight deck right during the battle.
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 5 2018 19: 36
      +1
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      An aircraft carrier does not have to be drowned at all. Hit at least one bomb, or rockets on the deck makes it useless. You can’t take off, you can also land (and if there are no friendly airfields nearby, and fuel at the end?) Aircraft in an aircraft carrier are located inside in several tiers. When hit, the entire complex system of lifting mechanisms is wrinkled. For everything else, it is also thousands and thousands of tons of the most diverse fuels and lubricants, which, when ignited, will have the effect of a Molotov cocktail. I don’t recall daring to use these floating coffins against countries that have at least some means of dealing with flying jackets. Only against weak countries with outdated weapons.

      judging by what you wrote, you are completely unfamiliar with the design of a modern aircraft carrier (not to mention constructive protection), at least of the already obsolete Nimitz, and the organization of their service and struggle for survivability. It’s not in my rules to write such a general conclusion, but if you take apart your every blunder, you can write War and Peace. All wrong. The aircraft carrier is big because everything important in it is duplicated and maximally spaced from each other. You can make holes in the deck for a long time, they’ll close it up right during the battle. To break something important, hidden deep inside, you need a powerful rocket, and not one. Not dead "Onyx" and "Caliber"
      1. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 20: 04
        0
        Tell me honestly, do you yourself believe that the Americans will repair the deck during the battle?
        That who will die during the battle, repairing the deck I doubt ....
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 5 2018 20: 34
          +1
          if it’s a secret for you that they are engaged in the struggle for survivability and damage correction during the battle (since time immemorial), then there’s nothing to talk about. The steam line was interrupted, for example, the speed dropped - to hell with it, after the battle, they will patch it only after the battle ... or the radar cable was cut off ... no way now)) not according to the charter) only then, and only on the base
          1. Denis Obukhov
            Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 21: 05
            0
            I’m not saying that it’s impossible, it’s just that the Americans will never repair anything under the bullets. Is there at least an example where they repaired anything under the bullets, does the movie not count?
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 April 5 2018 21: 30
              +2
              Quote: Denis Obukhov
              Doesn’t the movie count?

              See less kinA))
              I wanted to give examples, but I realized that it’s not worth it. You say - an isolated case, not counting, the Americans - they are the same, squinting and with claws, and still stupid. Although the mass of examples - especially from the period of the Second World War.
              This is generally an axiom for any fleet - the struggle for survivability, the same combat work. If you don’t lead it, you’ll drown. Or sink. Any sober-minded commander (even a pie-commander) will first try to provide the ship with a move and the ability to use weapons. For an aircraft carrier, carrier-based aircraft - the main thing, I would even say - is the only effective weapon. For the rest - think for yourself, everything is very obvious. It is even strange that such truths need clarification.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 6 2018 11: 54
              +1
              Quote: Denis Obukhov
              I’m not saying that it’s impossible, it’s just that the Americans will never repair anything under the bullets. Is there at least an example where they repaired anything under the bullets, does the movie not count?

              Repair under enemy fire is the South Dakota at Guadalcanal.
              An aircraft carrier is easier in this regard: a raid lasts about 10 minutes, after which there is time for repair. “Yorktown” under Midway during the first attack by the Japanese received several bombing hits and lost speed. But the approach to the second shock wave was already repaired so much that the Japanese decided that in front of them was another AB - not the one that hit the first wave.
              But the same “Forrestal” during a fire: firefighters extinguish burning airplanes with hanging bombs, the deck team pulls fuel tanks and ammunition from burning cars.
    3. ZVO
      ZVO April 6 2018 08: 20
      0
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      Or his expertise is fake. either he is really stupid. An aircraft carrier does not have to be drowned at all. Hit at least one bomb, or rockets on the deck makes it useless.


      An aircraft carrier of the Nimitz type will continue its functionality after the explosion of 2 torpedoes under it.
      Nothing will fail without the possibility of restoration of efficiency in the near future.
      And critical nodes are still further protected.

      And the undermining of a torpedo - gives a better effect than a rocket strike at times. if not by orders of magnitude.
  8. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 13: 43
    +2
    The harpoon is subsonic, while Onyx is supersonic - such missiles cannot be compared - it’s the same as piston and jet aircraft — yes, Sivkov — he, like Borisov, is the head.
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 5 2018 19: 50
      +1
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      The harpoon is subsonic, and Onyx is supersonic - such missiles cannot be compared - it's like piston and jet aircraft - yes, Sivkov - he, like Borisov, is the head

      it was exclusively about range) So the head is you hi
  9. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 5 2018 13: 46
    +1
    Here Sivkov was engaged in military-geopolitical reasoning, and would have continued. But no, pulled into experts and opinion leaders. Looks like he sat on the Hansa. But that’s why his Military Review began to quote so vigorously, this great mystery is
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri April 6 2018 20: 39
      0
      He sat ... And on the "Hansa", and on the "Testpilots" and on the "Base ..." ... :)
  10. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA April 5 2018 13: 59
    +1
    Quote: dvina71
    In the public domain, Onyx data with the letter E .., according to international law, their range is limited to 300 km .. How did the expert get the idea that these ONyxes are on Russian ships?
    I often hear Sivkov’s news on the radio .. he sometimes carries such a blizzard .., already surprisingly .. like a military man.

    Sivkov, first of all, is a military scientific doctor of science, and creative people and in their judgments often go aside, as an anecdote, two scientists sat in a balloon and flew something broke, they land, they look, there’s a man, they ask me, I'm sorry, where are we? He told them you are in a balloon, one scientist says to another, judging by the answer, this is a military scientist, we don’t need such an answer ....
  11. iouris
    iouris April 5 2018 14: 43
    0
    It is necessary to increase the possibilities for the destruction of states, not aircraft carriers.
  12. Operator
    Operator April 5 2018 15: 55
    0
    The Burevestnik intercontinental cruise missile with a nuclear power plant urgently seeks marine carrier to circumvent the restrictions established by the START Treaty bully
  13. Old26
    Old26 April 5 2018 16: 41
    +2
    Quote: vadimtt
    Well, if 260-280 km in real life turn into 600-800 km, then everything will be in a bundle.

    In real life, Onyx flew overland for 450 km (in Syria), for sea targets - in the region of 400 km. Double up - this is only possible in science fiction novels

    Quote: ioan-e
    And under another agreement, cruise missiles exported should not fly further than 300 km

    This agreement, or rather the CTT agreement for India, is not valid. Last year, India became a full member of these agreements and in the relations of "members of this club" these restrictions do not apply. Only for export to countries that are not members of this agreement.

    Quote: ioan-e
    When used as a submarine platform, the 500 km limit disappears automatically!

    And when using a ground installation? In fact, 500 km restrictions primarily apply to ground-based launchers in only two countries

    Quote: hrych
    Firstly, Antei lost the narrow specialization of Killer Aircraft Carriers, Caliber on it, incl. to attack stationary targets. Those. Antey became a carrier of strategic Kyrgyz Republic. If you recall the Granites, then the half-megaton charge did not require flying into the side, undermining here almost immediately after jumping out from the horizon, when there is no time for reaction, who said that the anti-ship missiles Caliber and Onyxes would use conventional weapons when attacking the United States. Consequently, 300 (Onyx) -450 (Caliber) kg of HE explosive, change to lighter 150-300 kiloton nuclei, which do not exceed 100-200 kg in weight, of course, the range of application increases significantly with a decrease in the cast weight. In the case of the Caliber for stationary purposes, an average of 1000 km (proportion, like the Tomahawk) in the RCC version, the increase will be a couple of hundred kilometers. Therefore, a fairy tale affects yes, the thing is done laughing

    Even if you do not take into account the nuclear charge on the Granite, in any case the TNTE in it is higher than that of Onykas and Caliber. And this means that where it was possible to do with 5-7 Granites, you would have to use twice or three times as many rockets to hit the same target. Plus only in increasing the ammunition, which can be used in conventional wars ...

    Quote: jjj
    In the "times of glasnost" I read the calculations that even hitting the usual "Granite" only takes the ship out for repair. Yes, the operation is frustrating, but not destroying. It’s very difficult to drown an aircraft carrier without a warhead

    Complicated. But probably. Admiral Kapitanets has research, EMNIP "War at Sea" (I'm afraid to make a mistake). There were given calculations. To defeat an aircraft carrier, it is necessary to hit 8-9 missiles of the X-32 or Granite type. For drowning - about 10-12.
  14. san4es
    san4es April 5 2018 18: 12
    +2
    .. opinion of Konstantin Sivkov ...

    ...-- no one asks negative ... at the end am
  15. Amateur
    Amateur April 5 2018 18: 42
    +3
    He’s on tape.ru. Or is it a pity to lose such an author?
  16. Don
    Don April 6 2018 11: 14
    +2
    Quote: Alex777
    Smart people have long said that if the Volcano flies on 1000 km, then no admiral in his sober mind will order the next rocket with a half radius

    And why do you consider the range as the main indicator of RCC? This is not at all obvious. There, old Granit flies on 700 km, and the number of explosives on it is much higher than on Onyx, and he has decent speed, but still he is replaced by Onyx. Because the granite breakthrough of the anti-aircraft defense group of the enemy’s carrier group when firing at maximum range is from the realm of fantasy. At the 250 - 300 km lines there is still a chance to inflict damage on the enemy when the Granites fly along a low altitude trajectory and provided that carrier-based AWACS are not on duty in the sky.
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 6 2018 17: 26
      0
      Quote: Donskoy
      but still replaced with Onyx

      it seems that once again the Defense Ministry was attacked by a concern for unification (it does not bother, but they are trying). Onyx and Caliber with X-35 are unified by launchers, Caliber with Onyx become the main striking force of the fleet — both cruisers, submarines, and frigates — wherever they can be shoved, they are going to remove Granites from Orlanes and replace them again with Caliber . Apparently, they want to compensate for the apparent decrease in power of each missile with the only possible way (and that is not obvious in terms of effectiveness - the question is, is it more efficient, a pair of 8-inch shells or ten dozen 3-inch shells is open) by a massive launch. In fact, they adopted the American concept - a lot of light missiles instead of a limited number of heavy ones. The fleet will be able to deal more effectively with ground targets and numerous light forces, with serious ships - exactly the opposite
      1. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri April 6 2018 20: 36
        0
        "... Onyx and Caliber with the X-35 ..." - "horses mixed together, people ..." :) Onyx and Caliber da- in UKKS. Uranium-RCC light class, it has its own PU, 4hTPK (short)
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 6 2018 21: 33
          0
          Quote: Bersaglieri
          Uranium-RCC light class, it has its own PU, 4hTPK (short)

          Yes, I got a little messed up with the Club; he can use export modifications of the 3M-54, 3M-14, and X-35 series missiles. In principle, nothing, except for the design of the TPK, does not interfere with the use of the X-35 in the UKKS. It would be a desire
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 6 2018 20: 30
      +2
      Quote: Donskoy
      Because the granite breakthrough of the air defense missile defense group by the Granites during firing at maximum range is a fantasy

      Rather, because the production of Granites died with the USSR.
  17. Turgon
    Turgon April 6 2018 15: 36
    +1
    Yes, it is, when we did “Mosquitoes” at the plant, the real performance characteristics were significantly different from the declared ones.
  18. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri April 6 2018 20: 34
    0
    280 km is the agreed range for the export option :) Onyx has a slightly shorter range along the combined path than Granite has 400 + km. And 72 Onyx are more likely to hit the right goals than 24 Granite (... EPR, yeah)

    "Expert" Sivkov, as usual, issued a "pot of nonsense" to the mountain :)