Military Review

Operation Vezeryubung. Capture Norway and Denmark

65
World War I Scandinavian countries stayed in neutrality. Since the beginning of World War II, they counted on the same. But the situation was different. In 1914 — 1918 Scandinavian countries were aloof from the main war lines and no one was going to encroach on their neutrality. But in 1939 Scandinavia became an object of strategy for both Britain and Germany.


The British leadership appreciated the benefits of drawing the Scandinavian countries into the war: the export of Swedish iron ore to Germany was partially blocked, this was an important link in the economic blockade. The British could take over the huge Norwegian merchant fleet. It was also a way to pull the Germans from the western front, to force them to fight under British rule fleet. A new front in the north would force the Germans to disperse their forces and, possibly, prevent their advance in the west. Here the British were warmly supported by the French. Scandinavia was also a convenient base, in particular, for transferring hostilities to the Baltic. The Scandinavian bridgehead together with neighboring Finland could be used against the USSR.

In Germany, Norway was primarily interested in the naval command. The experience of the WWI showed that the German fleet, limited to the bases of the Helgoland Bay, cannot solve the tasks facing it, the main of which was the naval blockade of England. Military theorists Groos and Wegener wrote that the maritime situation in Germany could be improved by capturing the coast of Norway. Wegener also pointed out that the northern communications of Russia could be cut off from Norway.

From the Germans did not hide the British interest in Norway. General Falkenhorst identified the reasons for the German invasion as follows: 1) prevent possible British penetration into Norway; 2) the seizure of bases in Norway to ensure the freedom of action of the German fleet; 3) ensure unimpeded transport of Swedish ore along the coast of Norway.

In general - who seized domination in Scandinavia - he received significant advantages in the fight against the other side. The invader could expand the basing system of his fleet and air force, as well as use the economic resources of Scandinavia.

At the end of 1939, a special headquarters was set up in Germany to develop a plan of operation against Norway. Part of the German command doubted the need for an operation. Brauchitsch and Halder proposed to postpone the seizure of Norway in order not to divert forces from the upcoming offensive against France, scheduled for May 1940. However, Hitler insisted on the seizure of Norway and Denmark. 1 March 1940. Hitler signed a directive to conduct the operation, code-named "Weserubing". Since the second half of March, concrete preparations began for its implementation.

Considerable importance was attached to the "fifth column". The leader of the Norwegian fascists V. Quisling traveled to Germany, met with her leadership, discussing the invasion of his country. In Norway, even questions to Quisling did not arise.
Operation Vezeryubung. Capture Norway and Denmark

Loading the German troops on the cruiser.

The German command tried to keep the preparation for the operation secret. However, German activity did not go unnoticed. In London, Oslo and Copenhagen, there were reports that ships and troops were concentrated in German ports, and they were being loaded on board. From various sources, there were also direct reports that the German invasion was ahead.

Quotes from W. Shearer *: "two Scandinavian countries and ... the British were caught off guard, not because they were not warned of impending danger, but because they did not want to believe in the reality of such a danger." “The Norwegian Cabinet reacted skeptically to such signals ... the Norwegian government did not find it necessary to carry out such basic activities as mobilizing the army, re-staffing the forts guarding the entrances to the most important harbors, blocking the runways on the airfields and, most important, mining the narrow straits on the outskirts of the capital and major cities. If it carried out these activities, история could have taken a completely different path. ”

The Danes also noticed that German military columns, stretching for tens of kilometers, march to their border. The Danish government has not responded.

Meanwhile, the British were preparing their operation in Norway. The plan “R4” was developed, which provided for the mining of the Norwegian territorial waters near Narvik - in order to impede the transportation of ore to Germany. This was supposed to provoke a German response. As soon as the Germans start them (or the British will assign them the intention to do it), then the British would start the second part of the plan: the landing of their troops in Norway. The British planned to mine the Norwegian waters on April 6, but because of the bad weather they underwent an operation on the 8. As a result, the Germans managed to get ahead of the British.

The first German ships with the landing force left Wilhelmshaven on the morning of April 7. They had to go 2 000 km to Narvik, by which they had to go to the morning of 9. The battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and 10 destroyers were supposed to deliver 2000 paratroopers to Narvik; the heavy cruiser Hipper and 4 destroyer were carrying 1700 paratroopers to Trondheim. Before Trondheim, all ships had to go together.

A German squadron heading north was spotted at 09.50 by a British air reconnaissance aircraft. However, the air reconnaissance message was inaccurate: the strength of the German compound was determined by one cruiser and six destroyers (in fact: 2 LC, 1 CT and 14 EM). English bombers sent to the attack found the Germans in 13.30 further north. Bombers attacked completely unsuccessfully, but the composition of the German squadron was determined closer to reality. Because of the strict radio silence, the crews of the bombers reported this only in 17: 30. In 18.27, the English fleet in Scapa Flow was ordered to breed.

As a result, the English fleet reached the interception of the Germans only in 20.15 - 10 hours after the detection of the German squadron by air reconnaissance. If, of course, the Aglitsky fleet was not prevented from exiting earlier than in 20.15, some other completely insurmountable reasons, and not confusion in the air reconnaissance messages.

The British missed the opportunity to intercept the German squadron with a landing force south of Norway - and to stop the German invasion at the very beginning. On the night from 7 to 8, the German squadron turned north-east to Trondheim and Narvik; The British squadron turned to the north-west and searched for the Germans there. The British command thought that the Germans aimed to break through the raiders into the Atlantic; the fact that the goal is Norway has never occurred to anyone.

On April XNUM the following German groups took to the sea. In Bergen: 8 light cruisers, 2 destroyer, 2 torpedo boats, 3 paratroopers; Kristiansand: light cruiser, 1900 destroyer and 3 torpedo boats, 7 man; in Oslo: cruisers "Blucher", "Lutzov", "Emden", 1100 torpedo boats, 3 minesweepers, 8 people.

From the air invasion force supported X air corps: 290 bombers, 40 dive bombers, 30 single-engine fighters, 70 twin-engine fighters, 70 reconnaissance aircraft.

In the morning of 9, German troops occupied Denmark without a fight. Well, as without a fight - a couple of shootouts with a dozen dead on both sides was still. Denmark later became a springboard for action in Norway.

On the morning of April 9, the Germans began landing troops in the Norwegian ports. The Danish government immediately accepted a German ultimatum about surrender, but the Norwegian ultimatum rejected, but could not organize opposition to the Germans.

Unloading troops from the cruiser.

The Norwegian army in peacetime numbered 15 500 people, in wartime, the army should have increased fivefold. The offices of six of its divisions were deployed: 1-division - Halden (east of Oslo), 2-division - Oslo, 3-division - Kristiansand, 4-division - Bergen, 5-division - Trondheim, 6 - division - Harstad (near Narvik).

The German plan called for the capture of as many Norwegian centers as possible by a simultaneous surprise attack. If Oslo, Kristiansand, Bergen, Trondheim and Narvik were able to take, this would mean that five of the six Norwegian divisions would be immediately defeated or would have suffered heavy losses.

Taken aback the Norwegian armed forces offered only episodic resistance. The biggest success of the Norwegians was the sinking of the German heavy cruiser in the Oslo Fiord. However, the Norwegian capital was still captured on April 9. German paratroopers seized an airfield near Oslo, on which transport aircraft began to land. Having collected up to two battalions, the Germans moved to Oslo. Norwegians didn’t try to fight for the capital, their quickness was enough only to get the king and the prince, ministers and, of course, gold reserves out of the capital. At the disposal of the Germans got a large port of Oslo, through which began to arrive new parts and supplies.

April 9 German units captured Oslo, Arendal, Kristiansand, Stavanger, Egersund, Bergen, Trondheim and Narvik. Most of the country's population lived in and near these cities. In the hands of the Germans were the main Norwegian warehouses. weapons. The German forces during this period were only small detachments without artillery and armored vehicles. But the Norwegians did not even try to counterattack anywhere.

The British entered the battle, they drowned the German light cruiser and 10 destroyers in Narvik in Bergen. German aviation damaged several British cruisers, having discouraged the British from the desire to operate in southern Norway - within the radius of German aircraft.

Next, the deployment race began. The initial German landing was small (8 850 people), since the units were transported on warships. Then came the transport ships that were supposed to deliver the main force. In total, the Germans assigned 7 divisions to Norway.

The transfer of German troops and supplies went through the strait between Denmark and Norway. British submarines sank three of the first-tier 15 vessels. The 2 echelon (11 ships) lost two ships that killed more than 1000 people (missing). After that, German troops were transported not by slow large transports, but by high-speed small vessels. Total Germans attracted to 400 ships. The number of soldiers transported began to reach 3000 per day. Also played a role of German transport aircraft.

The anti-submarine measures of the Germans greatly hindered the actions of the British submarines. The British sent high-speed ships to the strait. But their raids did not result. Since German aircraft dominated the strait, destroyers of the Allies could operate there only at night — and they spent most of that night on going to the strait and back. The British could not cut the German maritime communications.

Since April 12, Anglo-French units began to land in Norway. A total of four English, French and Polish brigades were sent there. The Allies were not going to throw significant forces into battle for the sake of Norway. Any hopes for the success of the Allies would be if they acted quickly. But while they understood the situation, they set goals, figured out relations with the Norwegians, gave orders, counter orders, the Germans managed to strengthen. 23, April, the English brigade collided with the Germans marching south from Oslo. Unable to withstand the German attacks, the British fled.

The Germans quickly expanded their main bridgehead in the Oslo region. Most of the Norwegian military commanders showed indecision or just stupidity. Part went to direct aiding the invaders; many considered the fight against the Germans hopeless and surrendered on the first demand. The 2-I Norwegian division, whose command was notable for its particular indiscriminateness, was quickly destroyed, more precisely scattered. Then the Germans dispersed the 1 division; 2000 people from her ran to Sweden.

There were several commanders of a different persuasion: Major Holtermann, Lieutenant Hannevig organized centers of stubborn resistance. They showed that not all Norwegians are afraid to fight.

Norwegian soldiers from the unit Holterman.

By early May, the Germans occupied the south and center of Norway, the struggle continued only in northern Norway from Narvik. 8 June, British troops left Norway, finally destroying the port of Narvik. A few days later, the remnants of the Norwegian army capitulated.

In the Norwegian operation, the Germans suffered small casualties. But the losses of the fleet were heavy; The 3 cruisers and 10 destroyers were sunk, the cruiser and the 2 battleship, sustained heavy damage, stood up for a long overhaul. After the operation, Germany remained in the ranks of one heavy and two light cruisers, four destroyers. Two months later, the German staffs were faced with the task of working out Operation Zeelev, the landing in England. This operation had to be abandoned - and the small number of warships in the formation was one of the main reasons.

Having captured Denmark and Norway, the Germans gained an important foothold. From Norway during the Great Patriotic War, the Germans opposed the Allied deliveries to the USSR through the Norwegian Sea.

On the other hand, the seizure of Norway had already placed before the Germans the need to defend it against possible enemy landings. The task was not easy, because the length of the Norwegian coast is almost 20 thousand km (more than the coastline of Africa). As a result, the creation of a coastal defense in Norway diverted vast German resources.

* W. Shearer - a famous journalist, and then a historian from the United States.
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  1. Vard
    Vard April 5 2018 05: 26
    +3
    Now Norway is actively preparing for the defense against Russia ... But historical experience testifies ... Not there they are looking for enemies ...
    1. Serge Gorely
      Serge Gorely April 5 2018 13: 36
      +7
      Judging by how the listed warriors "actively" defended - a typical agreement. The only country in Europe to do something is Poland. The main mistake of the USSR is the support of the fairy tale about the massive anti-fascist struggle of Europe. The entire current European Union was a direct or indirect ally of Hitler. But then came kogovy Stalin and ruined everything.
    2. NF68
      NF68 April 12 2018 17: 28
      0
      Quote: Vard
      Now Norway is actively preparing for the defense against Russia ... But historical experience testifies ... Not there they are looking for enemies ...


      Let them spend it. Perhaps someday they will begin to grow wiser. And if not, then the trouble is not great.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 5 2018 06: 47
    +4
    Yeah, the English mess was still the same: 10 hours they decided whether there was a convoy! They could have defeated the entire detachment with the landing: it was pure adventure. But Hitler knew the British very well and was not mistaken ...
    1. Silvio
      Silvio April 5 2018 18: 29
      +3
      Another interesting detail: when the Fuhrer gave the order to develop a plan for the invasion of Norway, it turned out that there were no maps at all in the general headquarters of this country. The chief of staff bought in Berlin in the first store they came across maps of Norway and on them and developed an invasion operation.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 6 2018 08: 27
        0
        Quote: Silvio
        Another interesting detail: when the Fuhrer gave the order to develop a plan for the invasion of Norway, it turned out that there were no maps at all in the general headquarters of this country. The chief of staff bought in Berlin in the first store they came across maps of Norway and on them and developed an invasion operation.

        For myself, I say this: it was not so much the German skill that won as the English stupidity.
        The same thing happened with the German landing on Crete: the purest adventure of the Germans and the lost victory of the British due to stupid mistakes ...
  3. parusnik
    parusnik April 5 2018 08: 04
    +2
    The Danes also noticed that German military columns, stretching for tens of kilometers, march to their border. The Danish government has not responded.
    ... Apparently, I didn’t really want to ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. K.A.S.
    K.A.S. April 5 2018 08: 47
    +10
    The heavy cruiser recessed in the fjord is the Blucher! Sistership of "Prince Eugen." If the Russians had so profiled the latest cruiser, then historians would have drawn conclusions about the stupid military leadership and neglect of their soldiers!
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 April 5 2018 09: 55
      +7
      Quote: K.A.S.
      The heavy cruiser recessed in the fjord is the Blucher! Sistership of "Prince Eugen." If the Russians had so profiled the latest cruiser, then historians would have drawn conclusions about the stupid military leadership and neglect of their soldiers!


      The "Blucher" was driven by the half-blind retirees from the ancient guns. Halder is well written about this.
      1. K.A.S.
        K.A.S. April 5 2018 13: 32
        +1
        And how did it happen that the newest cruiser drowned from several hits from an ancient weapon while its sistership survived a nuclear explosion! Who contributed to this? And this was facilitated by the organization of this action! Simply put, gouging the Germans! Who drove the grader into narrow fjords after loading it with gasoline and ammunition!
        1. Forcecom
          Forcecom April 5 2018 15: 50
          +6
          Well, to be honest, “Bleher” was drowned not by the grandmothers of the flurry, but by a quite adequate coastal defense unit that included not only antediluvian 280mm caliber guns that hit the side from a distance of about a kilometer, but also a coastal torpedo battery (should I say that they were all shot for the benefit of the fiord narrow enough?)
          At 5 hours 00 minutes (according to other sources - 5 hours 20 minutes) guns of the caliber of 150 and 280 mm batteries of Kaholm and Kopaas of the Norwegian fort Oskarsborg (commandant Colonel Erichsen) opened fire on both sides from a distance of 500 m (according to other sources - 1500 m) according to the Blucher, which was traveling at a speed of 7 knots. A battery of three 280-mm guns fired two shots and made two hits (one shell fell into the fire control post, and the second into the port side hangar, causing a fire of fuel and lubricants stored there and ammunition, which destroyed two seaplanes). A battery of three 150-mm guns fired 25 shells, of which about two dozen hit the target (hitting the right side anti-aircraft missile defense of the starboard side and the middle 105-mm mount, steering machine and communication with the engine room (steering wheel jammed in the "left on board, ”and the cruiser turned nose to shore.) An attempt by German artillerymen to return fire was unsuccessful. Due to damage to the main artillery post, fire control had to be transferred to a third artillery officer, who was in the bow commander who could not detect from his low point In fact, the return fire was reduced to aimless firing of 105-mm guns and anti-aircraft guns, which did no harm to the defenders. By the way, after the death of Blucher, the suppression of the 150-mm battery he had already identified cost the battleship “Lutz” three severe damage.

          At 5 hours 08 minutes, the crew managed to establish temporary communication with the machines through the central post and put in place emergency steering.

          At 5 hours and 20 minutes, the cruiser’s hull was hit twice by torpedoes from the port side. Both torpedoes hit the central part of the ship: one to the boiler room No. 1, the second to the front turbine compartment. The torpedo protection to some extent fulfilled its purpose, limiting the initial flooding, but all the lower rooms between compartments V and VII (bow turbine compartments and boiler compartments 1 and 2) were filled with smoke. Failure of turbine generators with a decreasing load led to the rapid failure of both networks - direct and alternating current.

          Norwegian batteries ceased fire on the Blucher at 5 hours 23 minutes. The damaged cruiser still kept moving, had a roll of about 10 degrees to the port side and was engulfed in a fire, the spread of which was facilitated by ammunition landing on board the ship in violation of all conceivable rules. The fire completely interrupted the communication between the bow and stern of the cruiser, limiting the action of emergency parties on the upper deck. During the extinguishing, there was a detonation of the ammunition placed in the torpedo workshop, so the entire left side below the bow of the 105-mm installation and the deck in the same place were opened. The commander decided to anchor the ship, since the message from the survivability struggle posts indicated that the right and left turbines could be launched in about an hour. The ship was anchored east of Asholmen Island, fires spread aboard, and could not be localized.

          Around 6 hours 00 minutes there was a strong explosion in the cellar of compartment VII between boiler rooms 1 and 2. The bulkheads between the boiler rooms were destroyed, and oil began to leak from the oil compartments, increasing smoke emission. The boiler compartments 1 and 2, the front turbine compartment, the generator compartment No. 2 and compartment IV, in which the anti-aircraft ammunition cellars were located, were also flooded. After the explosion of the cellar, the flow of water became uncontrollable, and the roll of the ship began to increase rapidly.

          At about 7 a.m., the roll reached 45 degrees, and Captain Voldag gave the order to leave the ship.


          Read more about the Blucher service https://warspot.ru/1601-pervyy-i-posledniy-boy-bl
          yuhera

          The cries of Ur and hatred are certainly good in parades, but even so you don’t have to stoop to outright nonsense.
          1. Looking for
            Looking for April 5 2018 20: 01
            0
            I still do not understand the purpose of the Germans who sent a valuable ship to certain death. And besides, it was loaded with a landing party.
            1. Alf
              Alf April 5 2018 20: 30
              +2
              Quote: Seeker
              I still do not understand the purpose of the Germans who sent a valuable ship to certain death. And besides, it was loaded with a landing party.

              Apparently, the Germans felt that a warship armed with large-caliber artillery could immediately support the landing, and strong armor would allow it to withstand a battle with coastal artillery (although Nelson also said that the ship's commander, who enters into a duel with a coastal battery, is either crazy or. ..crayfish).
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 6 2018 10: 13
              +1
              Quote: Seeker
              I still do not understand the purpose of the Germans who sent a valuable ship to certain death. And besides, it was loaded with a landing party.

              The Germans hoped to slip through in the confusion of the transition from peacetime to war - until the commanders reach the headquarters, until they find someone who decides to take responsibility, until they lower the order, until they collect settlements on the ground (which, taking into account the staffing of garrisons in the states of peace time is not so simple) and will deliver live shells to the guns ...
              Here, for example, is the condition of the Oslofjord fortress (hereinafter all citations are based on S. Patyanin “Vezeryubung”: Norwegian campaign of 1940):
              The first one on the way was the Oslofjord fortress with the batteries Mokeryo, Rauoi and Bulerne on the islands of the same name. However, not all batteries were fully manned. Instead of the privates and 2018 officers assigned to the state of 227, there were only 96 command personnel and 696 privates, most of whom were drafted into the army in March 1940 and had not yet been shot at.

              And here is her reaction to the Blucher group - everything was just as the Germans planned:
              Norwegians did not sleep. When the German ships passed the islands of Rauoi and Bulerne, they were illuminated from the shore by spotlights. Following this, a warning shot rang out. Nevertheless, the commanders did not dare to take responsibility to open fire to defeat. Obeying the precise instructions of Kummets, the battle group at high speed, opening their searchlights in response to blind the gunners, proceeded past the batteries. When they came to their senses on the shore, the compound passed a dangerous place, and seven belated shells lay behind the column.

              But, unfortunately for the Germans, the commandant of the next fortress turned out to be more decisive:
              Oscarborg commandant Colonel Birger Eriksen, a 65-year-old, received a message from the Rauoi and Bulern islands about the passage of the German detachment and ordered the guns to be immediately alerted. And although the personnel were not enough, having a margin of time of more than four hours, the garrison managed to do this.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2018 10: 36
      +2
      Quote: K.A.S.
      If the Russians had so profiled the latest cruiser, then historians would have drawn conclusions about the stupid military leadership and neglect of their soldiers!

      That you have not mentioned how the British fought in Africa with Rommel :))))))
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 5 2018 19: 12
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        That you have not mentioned how the British fought in Africa with Rommel :))))))

        She ... it’s better to remember how they fought with the Japanese in Burma and India. One operation, Anakim, was worth.
        The British offensive began on September 21, 1942, and it immediately became clear that it was not secured even at the preliminary stages. In particular, roads were not prepared along which troops were supposed to reach the border with Burma (even in the Chittagong Valley, where there are no obstacles to the construction of the road, it ended 15 km from the border; however, the absence of the road was a complete surprise for the commander advancing on Akyab of the 14th division). As a result, it took almost a month to pave the way to the Indian-Burmese border for carts and light vehicles. Skilfully defending themselves with a single regiment (without one battalion), the Japanese made it so that in November the British 14th division could only advance until the middle of the intended route, and the Japanese air raids on Chittagong and Calcutta scared the Indians so much that the population fled from the cities and there all froze a life.
        Having learned about the problems with the offensive, the commander of the British army, General Irwin, flew into the headquarters of the 9th division on January 1943, 14 and ordered her commander to storm Japanese positions in the forehead. However, not one of the attacks was successful; while the British lost almost all the tanks. However, the "meat grinder in Arakan" lasted until March 18. Meanwhile, parts of the Japanese 55th division that arrived in Arakan began to crush the enemy and destroy one brigade after another. Lloyd, commander of the 14th British Division, ultimately refused to comply with Irwin's suicidal orders and was removed. Before the start of the rainy season of 1943, General Slim was appointed the division commander, who, having got acquainted with the state of affairs, ordered an urgent withdrawal of troops from Arakan, because after the onset of heavy rains the British units, deprived of reinforcements and supplies, would be finally destroyed by the Japanese. Enraged, Irwin ordered that Slim be removed from command and put on trial, but instead was removed from his post himself.
        © Aunt Vika
        In Mozheiko the same operation was described even more colorfully.
  5. Mikado
    Mikado April 5 2018 10: 12
    +4
    maps are clearly the Sea Atlas. Wonderful huge book. good I studied it all my childhood, spreading it on the floor .... soldier so the love of geography came! drinks
    1. Yaroslav 2
      April 5 2018 10: 37
      +6
      Quote: Mikado
      maps are clearly the Sea Atlas.

      The last map is from the 12 volume "WWII History". All my childhood I read them, considered cards. So the love of history and entrenched. drinks
      1. Mikado
        Mikado April 5 2018 12: 51
        +2
        The last map is from the 12-volume "WWII History".

        et yes, I was wrong! drinks Lucky for those who had such books ....
        So the love of history and entrenched.

        I will fully support! And then you begin to read adventure or military-historical literature, and your hands reach for the atlas themselves to look for islands on the map, while the imagination draws seas and battle scenes. yes Yaroslav, grateful for the article! We will wait more. hi
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 5 2018 22: 24
          +1
          I probably even read something wrong.
          "Where are you, Son of Heaven ?!"
          In general, I will immediately find Honolulu and Kandalaksha on the map, but the Schiaparelli crater is somehow closer to me.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado April 6 2018 12: 24
            0
            "son of heaven" made another disgusting - he mentioned the main merit of Vepasian on today's branch. These Dunduks did not immortalize in their arches. request
      2. bone1
        bone1 April 8 2018 21: 16
        0
        Today's children are more fortunate, all in digital and in the internet.
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 April 5 2018 23: 13
      +2
      Quote: Mikado
      I studied it all my childhood, spreading it on the floor .... so the love of geography came!

      Hello, Nikolay! hi That's it, I, to the heap, also tried to redraw them ... amateur topographer, eprst wassat I won’t be surprised if I ever find these scribbles in my home archives. laughing As for the topic of the article, we can add that during the invasion of Norway, the first and last participation in the hostilities of the boxes (in a quantity of 3 units) under the name NbFz took place:

      At the port of Oslo, April 1940

      On March 1940
      1. Mikado
        Mikado April 6 2018 09: 48
        +1
        That's it, I, to the heap, also tried to redraw them ... amateur topographer, epprst wassat

        not you alone, Alexander, did this wink topographic designations still remember!
        It seems that one of the "three-headed" was lost?
        1. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 April 6 2018 09: 50
          +2
          Quote: Mikado
          was one of the three-headed lost?

          Yes, they did. The other two returned home, and their tracks are lost .... hi
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 6 2018 10: 14
            +3
            Quote: Paranoid50
            Yes, they did. The other two returned home, and their tracks are lost ....

            One broke, two lost... smile
            1. Paranoid50
              Paranoid50 April 6 2018 10: 42
              +2
              Quote: Alexey RA
              One broke, two lost ...

              Yes, and that is characteristic, it seems to be unlike the Germans. Although, if you rummage around, it turns out that in some places the notorious ordnung was simply swollen, and there was enough mess in the third Reich.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado April 6 2018 11: 50
                +1
                puffy, not puffy, but they gained experience .... what and the mess, it seems, was enough everywhere.
                1. Paranoid50
                  Paranoid50 April 6 2018 11: 54
                  +2
                  Quote: Mikado
                  a mess, I think, everywhere was enough.

                  But nowhere, like the Germans, this same order was not erected in a cult. fellow So "they lie, Min Herz ... by golly, everyone lies !!!" laughing
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado April 6 2018 12: 01
                    +2
                    But nowhere, like the Germans, this same order was not erected in a cult. fellow So "they lie, Min Herz ... by golly, everyone lies !!!" laughing

                    unconditionally. Especially the culture they did not have in the occupied territories.
  6. Prometey
    Prometey April 5 2018 12: 50
    +1
    The task was not easy, since the length of the coast of Norway is almost 20 thousand km
    There is definitely no mistake?
    1. Yaroslav 2
      April 5 2018 15: 31
      +4
      Quote: Prometey
      almost 20 thousand km

      In fact, I was sealed up here - not "almost 20", but "more than 20 000 km" - this is necessary. Exactly - 21 465 km. The coast is just very rugged with fjord bays.
      1. Forcecom
        Forcecom April 5 2018 15: 58
        +4
        Are you sure that PDO must be created on every meter of the coast of each fjord? Mine-artillery positions at the entrances to the fjord and several separate cut-off positions and posts in depth will solve this problem no worse (which was actually the case with the Norwegians). and the length of the coastline in this case will be 2,600+ km, which is somehow more like the truth.
        And in general, according to the article, a little less pathetics and more information would not have hurt her, Kriegsmarine did not have so many large NKs, so it was quite possible to give the name of each of them with a normal description of the causes of death or damage. And then about the cunning plan of England and France, they speak more than about the hostilities themselves.
        1. Yaroslav 2
          April 5 2018 18: 33
          +2
          Quote: Forcecom
          in general, according to the article, a little less pathos and more information she would not have been in the way

          Well, I don’t know, in my opinion with the pathos in the article is quite minimal; Well here, apparently, the taste does not have to taste. And more information - I would not mind, there are a lot of interesting details in this campaign. That's just the article then grows to an unformatted size.
          1. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 April 5 2018 23: 20
            +3
            Quote: Yaroslav 2
            there are many interesting details in this campaign. That's just the article then grows to an unformatted size.

            hi Then the cycle would have to start. yes If within the limits of one article, then it is quite informative. And about interesting details ... Well, than I could - helped (a little higher) laughing Duc, then comments. Again: hi
          2. Forcecom
            Forcecom April 6 2018 09: 08
            +1
            I understand that “brevity is the sister of talent,” but one should not confuse brevity with the absence of a description as such.
            Frankly, if I would undertake to describe this operation, I would get the "Great Wall of Text" stretched for 5-6 articles with a deepening, in particular because of which, most readers by the middle of reading each article would forget where it started ( there were precedents).
            But if you try to maintain the Spartan style:
            You write
            The Norwegians biggest success was the sinking of the German heavy cruiser in the Oslo Fjord.

            What in my opinion could be written
            During the operation to capture Oslo, Rear Admiral Kyummets, at the mine and artillery line of the PDO, was destroyed by the Blukher TKr and was damaged by the Lyuttsov TKr due to the wrong decision of the DESO commander.

            Then you didn’t mention in a single word about the military clash between LK Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with LKr Rinaun, as well as their destruction at the final stage of the AB Glories operation. This was the first clash between LK and AB and the only one in which LK came out victorious
            Well, or for example you write
            There were several commanders of a different persuasion: Major Holtermann, Lieutenant Hannevig organized centers of stubborn resistance. They showed that not all Norwegians are afraid to fight.

            And all, it seems to me that 2-3 sentences were described here describing the military operations of these officers who remained faithful to the oath.
            In general, Operation Weserubung, despite its transience, is very voluminous, and it was not necessary to place it within the framework of one article. It was possible to divide it into 2 articles by dividing it either by sea or land component, or by time: the landing of German troops with battles with the Norwegian army and the landing and subsequent evacuation of Allied forces.
            Sincerely, Denis Kruchinin.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 6 2018 10: 17
              +2
              Quote: Forcecom
              Frankly, if I would undertake to describe this operation, I would get the "Great Wall of Text" stretched for 5-6 articles with a deepening, in particular because of which, most readers by the middle of reading each article would forget where it started ( there were precedents).

              Moreover, 5-6 articles would also be a "brief squeeze." The classic work by Patyanin on Weserubung is 360 pages. smile
            2. Yaroslav 2
              April 6 2018 21: 23
              0
              Quote: Forcecom
              if I would undertake to describe this operation, I would get the "Great Wall of Text" extended to 5-6 articles

              Quote: Forcecom
              Operation Weserubung, despite its transience, is very voluminous, and it was not necessary to place it within the framework of one article.

              Of course, there is a reason for this. On the other hand, as colleague Alexei noted, Patyanin has a detailed description of the operation. And for many, the actual side is largely known without me; many people know about the same Blucher (which was also reflected in the comments) and about the adventures of Gnei with Sharn (and I did not touch on their fights because this episode did not affect the fate of Norway (in my opinion)).
      2. Prometey
        Prometey April 5 2018 18: 41
        0
        Coast or coastline?
        I sit thinking - the length of the land borders of Russia is 61 thousand km. Does Norway seem to be not the largest country in Europe with a maritime border only 3 times inferior to the borders of Russia? I can’t enter.
        1. Yaroslav 2
          April 5 2018 19: 51
          0
          I will tell you more: if we take not only the mainland coast of Norway, but also its islands, then the length of its coast exceeds 25 000 km. Such a unique country.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  7. NF68
    NF68 April 5 2018 17: 14
    +2
    The British missed this operation despite the presence of a powerful surface fleet. And the British submarine fleet could cause the Germans quite a few problems.
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 April 5 2018 23: 24
      +1
      Quote: NF68
      The British missed this operation

      So yes, but the Germans, with general success, suffered quite sensitive losses (kriegsmarine). So the victory here came out partly “pyrrhic”.
      1. NF68
        NF68 April 6 2018 18: 19
        +2
        Quote: Paranoid50
        Quote: NF68
        The British missed this operation

        So yes, but the Germans, with general success, suffered quite sensitive losses (kriegsmarine). So the victory here came out partly “pyrrhic”.


        But the Germans, until the very end of WWII, could transport iron ore from Sweden through Narvik from Finland without any special interference. This fully justified all the losses suffered by the Germans.
  8. Roman 11
    Roman 11 April 5 2018 18: 36
    0
    The plan is very risky, especially on distant bases - Narvik, Tronhane.

    It seems that the Germans already had experience, and so head-on ..... did Spee's loss really teach nothing?

    They had good ships, and Scharnhorsts and Hippers, but to use them to transport troops ?? Here it would have to be simpler - not to disperse the vast expanses of force, but to take bridgeheads from Bergen and lower with several detachments, without coming close to Oslo. After all, did they already have snorkel boats? Good boats, and transporters at such a distance can be covered + submarines involved. In general, the main goal is the west of the capital, airfields, airborne assault forces, and transport aircraft. All this they had. And then, Oslo is clear to the north.

    Scapa fly from Bergen is very close, from the point of view of aggression, the thought is correct, operation. Losses are not justified.
    1. Yaroslav 2
      April 5 2018 19: 59
      +1
      Quote: Novel 11
      The plan is very risky, especially on distant bases - Narvik, Tronhane.

      Apparently, the Germans were afraid that if they did not capture these cities, then the Norwegians would mobilize there and transfer forces from there to the south. And it will turn out already on a blitzkrieg, and a protracted campaign with a mobilized enemy. Moreover, it was Narvik that was almost the main target of the invasion.
      Although yes, so risk almost the entire fleet ... therefore, the German strategy and called adventure. The British simply unforgivably profiled the opportunity to destroy the German fleet.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 6 2018 10: 25
        +1
        Quote: Yaroslav 2
        Apparently, the Germans were afraid that if they did not capture these cities, then the Norwegians would mobilize there and transfer forces from there to the south. And it will turn out already on a blitzkrieg, and a protracted campaign with a mobilized enemy.

        The point is not only mobilization, but also that each unoccupied port makes it easier for the Allies to transfer their forces. And this is a protracted campaign.
        As for the capture of Oslo, there was the same reason - the desire to achieve the fastest surrender of Norway. Plus - ease your supply.
        Oslo, of course, was a key point of the German invasion, both politically and militarily. If the king and the Norwegian government were captured from the first hours of the operation, this would allow the Germans to persuade them to surrender peacefully, as happened in Denmark. Given the generally loyal attitude of the Norwegians towards Germany, such a development of events seems quite possible. In addition, Oslo was the largest port in the country, through which lay the most convenient route from Germany and Denmark. No matter how events unfold in other places, failure at this point could put the whole operation in jeopardy.
        © Patyanin
    2. NF68
      NF68 April 9 2018 15: 28
      0
      Quote: Novel 11
      The plan is very risky, especially on distant bases - Narvik, Tronhane.

      It seems that the Germans already had experience, and so head-on ..... did Spee's loss really teach nothing?

      They had good ships, and Scharnhorsts and Hippers, but to use them to transport troops ?? Here it would have to be simpler - not to disperse the vast expanses of force, but to take bridgeheads from Bergen and lower with several detachments, without coming close to Oslo. After all, did they already have snorkel boats? Good boats, and transporters at such a distance can be covered + submarines involved. In general, the main goal is the west of the capital, airfields, airborne assault forces, and transport aircraft. All this they had. And then, Oslo is clear to the north.

      Scapa fly from Bergen is very close, from the point of view of aggression, the thought is correct, operation. Losses are not justified.


      If the British captured Narvik, they would quickly deprive Germany of Swedish iron ore. There the distance was only about 120 km. by piece of iron, and without this ore Germany simply would not have been able to wage war, since it was from this ore that the Germans got the best to become. For example: in 1943, the Germans obtained 43% of all steel from this ore.
  9. WapentakeLokki
    WapentakeLokki April 5 2018 19: 47
    0
    To paratroopers (sea and airborne) and the Luftwaffe - Definition, but the Kriegsmarine showed full impotence that remained during the whole war, only the Doenitz guys succeeded, but it’s not a fleet, but rather the Wolves of the Atlantic Ocean, but the entire submarine frankly roamed the whole war
    1. Silvio
      Silvio April 5 2018 20: 12
      +1
      Well, Bismarck showed how to die for the Fuhrer.
      1. NF68
        NF68 April 12 2018 17: 29
        +1
        Quote: Silvio
        Well, Bismarck showed how to die for the Fuhrer.


        And Scharnhorst at the end of the 1943 year, too, was not bad at holding.
    2. Roman 11
      Roman 11 April 5 2018 22: 56
      +1
      Quote: WapentakeLokki
      and here is the Kriegsmarine

      Shnelboty looked good, destroyers. Raiders, by the way, also made a rustle at first, though they kept away from convoys. Then the era of escort aircraft carriers came and somehow they became completely joyless.

      The Germans in the fight for the ocean could come up with something more original, since they had such a gamble with Norway, because they had Count Zepelin, they had to finish building, + Tirpitz also had 2 Scharnhorsts with Hippers and Scheers - already a full-fledged squadron. Entering the Atlantic would have been terrifying. Especially the role of the ship would increase in the light of the atica on Terent and Pearl Harbor, and consultations of the Japanese would help to accelerate in combat training, so by the middle of the 42nd they could raise a surprise. Deck aviation is enough to direct the squadron into convoys and monitor the near approaches. Of course, the allies would have to cast fleets to search ..... but this is the 42nd! Yes, even submarines, just in case they had to be concentrated in one area, not far from which this squadron would circle. At the time of the artillery ship battle, there is absolutely nothing to do with the fight against submarines, therefore, in which case you can hide from more powerful naval formations of the Allies. In such conditions, the effectiveness of submarines will increase, especially in numerous groups.

      Although the same squadron could be used without an aircraft carrier, why not dare is not clear. More risky operations were carried out, and 3LK, 3TKR, 100 submarines in a small area forced themselves to do this, and the submarines — both the patrol and the means of attack — were doing it.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 6 2018 11: 10
        +3
        Quote: Novel 11
        The Germans in the fight for the ocean could come up with something more original, since they had such a gamble with Norway, because they had Count Zepelin, they had to finish building, + Tirpitz also had 2 Scharnhorsts with Hippers and Scheers - already a full-fledged squadron.

        Finish the "Count" - half the battle. We must also prepare an air group for him. Let me remind you that the United States took about a year to prepare the AB for combat operations - subject to 20 years of experience in exercises and combat use of the AB, an established structure for training pilots, training aircraft carriers, etc.
        The Germans have one “Scharnhorst” - for “Gneisenau”, after all the damage during the break from Brest, is undergoing repairs combined with modernization.
        Quote: Novel 11
        Especially the role of the ship would increase in the light of the atica on Terent and Pearl Harbor, and consultations of the Japanese would contribute to acceleration in combat training

        What are the advice of the Japanese? belay There was not even a normal connection between the Reich and Japan.
        Quote: Novel 11
        Deck aviation is enough to direct the squadron into convoys and monitor the near approaches. Of course, the allies would have to cast fleets to search ..... but this is the 42nd!

        Given the Germans' regular use of radio communications, the Allied fleet would be ready to exit before the Germans. In addition, do not forget that the position of all the "big pots" of Germans was carefully monitored, and their concentration would not have passed by the Allies.
        Quote: Novel 11
        At the time of the artillery ship battle, there is absolutely nothing to do with the fight against submarines, therefore, in which case you can hide from more powerful naval formations of the Allies.

        The small thing is to achieve 100% correct recognition and classification of the target of the submarine. smile
        Quote: Novel 11
        More risky operations were carried out, and 3LK, 3TKR, 100 submarines in a small area forced themselves to do this, and the submarines — both the patrol and the means of attack — were doing it.

        In which small area? Where are you going to deploy this squadron and how to lure the Allies there?
        I’ll tell you how this exit will end Kriegsmarine. The Germans will be met by Victories, Ranger and Wosp, covered by one of the Kings and a couple of American post-Washington troops. Moreover, AB can operate from anywhere in a radius of 200-250 miles from the target.
        Yes, and most importantly - do not forget about the speed difference between surface and submarine ships. This is now "moose" or "Virginia" can easily accompany AUG, and then the maximum speed of submarines in the open sea - no more than 19 knots. A little more than the economic course of surface ships.
        1. Roman 11
          Roman 11 April 6 2018 18: 42
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          We must also prepare an air group for him.

          Didn’t they cook it? And the torpedo bombers even launched it under the series. Hitler just stupid, freezing the building. By the middle of the 42nd, the group would have been trained, taking into account the achievements already, 1,5 years would have been enough.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          “Gneisenau” after all the damage during the breakthrough from Brest is undergoing repairs, combined with modernization.

          But this is a virtual option, which I had conceived. Subjects and variations could have been dozens, if not hundreds ... .. Imagine that the ill-fated torpedo didn’t hit Bismarck, or the fuse didn’t work there, but there are many reasons and accidents for which it would survive. And what, the Germans would continue to scatter thoughtlessly heavy ships? Hardly. Rather, they would come up with a plan to break into the ocean, gathering large forces at bases in Britain. For example, at Scapa Flau: aviation, up to several dozen boats, the same torpedo boats with destroyers, by the way, boats can be refueled from submarines, setting minefields - there are a lot of methods for breaking through. It’s another matter that the Allies would also mine the Danish Strait ... .. but this is a war, without any loss, there would probably have to sacrifice escort ships, or move strictly behind some large minesweeper, or a group of such ships.
          In occasion of Gneisenau, the same estimates are here - it was possible to move the mod as well and speed up the repairs.
          By the way, the operation in Norway was in the spring of the 40th! The count would have suggested that they were prepared for the middle of the 42nd! And note - back then it was definitely not known about the likely war with the USSR. Here Hitler stupid again)))). And suppose a war after the fall of Norway and France would go to the ocean, there, Africa, the Middle East, etc., and perhaps the invasion of Britain? Could go on such a schedule of events? Of course, they would start from the stub of the Mediterranean Sea, first Malta, then Gibraltar - it’s hard for the British, then the capture of Egypt - just in time for the 42nd it was all in its power and much less than for the Soviet attack!
          Quote: Alexey RA
          What are the advice of the Japanese? There was not even a normal connection between the Reich and Japan.

          Who told you that? Everything was, and we don’t know even more ... ... the impression is that in books in memoirs, media, and special literature they only write part of the iceberg, the main thing is hidden.
          And you admit that there were clearly fascist strange 3rd world? For example, somewhere in Latin America? And that at the embassies of the same Germany and Japan there are no military attaches? Could they cooperate? And was it necessary for this to go to each other's specialists to landfills, factories, design bureaus, or where else? It can be enough to meet and exchange information on neutral territory, advise on emerging issues, etc. And if an urgent need suddenly arises, it is possible to arrange a trip of some group of “Filipino” friends through diplomatic locks to one of the neutral countries of Europe, Sweden or Switzerland. In short, there is no limit to human imagination, it’s strange to write about these things in general, for this there are whole structures of services and departments in any country.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          In addition, do not forget that the position of all the "big pots" of Germans was carefully monitored, and their concentration would not have passed by the Allies.

          Well, what, for a thorough operation, it was obligatory to include ether? Is it not possible to plan and maintain radio silence before taking up positions? Here it was possible not only to individually prepare, but also to rehearse in groups, especially submariners - they are the main striking force. Heavyweights also need to be deployed reasonably. In escort groups, they gather at a rendezvous point from different places, Poland, Germany, and Norway.
          I remind you that this is a war, from overlays, breakdowns, various state of emergency in the form of a “spontaneous” explosion of the Mutsu LC or a fire, or damage and loss during the operation, no one is safe, it periodically occurs in peacetime, any such cripple, and during bombing, threats from under water, etc. - especially.
          It’s just that if you have the strengths and capabilities, then you need to use them with maximum efficiency to do the most harm to the enemy, and not wait idly by until he gradually melts your ships, without any risk to himself, this means that the submarines in the curtains are much cooler under the guise of a squadron, than without it.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The small thing is to achieve 100% correct recognition and classification of the target of the submarine.

          Do you want to comment on this? It’s strange. Is it difficult to recognize your own, less than a dozen? Even though captains are submariners without experience, but here you can take their roles for them, for example, notify which orders and courses the group will move in the areas of the curtains, the most inexperienced crews to prohibit shooting, conduct only reconnaissance of clearly specified squares, during the operation upon entering communication to follow orders exactly, if there are any fluctuations in attacks - to cancel shooting, for example, there are no destroyers or tankers in your squadron, it’s clear that this is the enemy ... .. these are details of the operation, somewhere individually. , something collectively and then, again and again - even in non-combat segments anything can happen, including with the most fighting and well-deserved crews.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 6 2018 19: 51
            +2
            Quote: Novel 11
            Didn’t they cook it? And the torpedo bombers even launched it under the series.

            Air group training is not only about coastal flights. You recall the take-off scheme from the “Count” - there, one circuit of carts will drink all the blood from the air group and the deck crew.
            Quote: Novel 11
            For example, at Scapa Flau: aviation, up to several dozen boats, the same torpedo boats with destroyers, by the way, boats can be refueled from submarines, setting minefields - there are a lot of methods for breaking through.

            That is, do you propose to drive submarines and EMs in shallow water, into the radius of operation of all the little things of submarines, and even aircraft covered by top? Moreover, this group will not have its own cover - according to the experience of the Battle of Britain, only “Zestors” reach those lands who are not rivals to local air defense fighters.
            Quote: Novel 11
            And suppose a war after the fall of Norway and France would go to the ocean, there, Africa, the Middle East, etc., and perhaps the invasion of Britain?

            And here you don’t have to admit anything. According to the plan, after the victory over France, Britain became the main goal of the Reich. Even the war with the USSR began in order to deprive Britain of last hope on the continent and to begin after the completion of Barbarossa a partial demobilization of the army with the transfer of the demobilized into industry and the construction of a powerful fleet (if the Island Empire does not surrender earlier).
            Quote: Novel 11
            Well, what, for a thorough operation, it was obligatory to include ether? Is it not possible to plan and maintain radio silence before taking up positions?

            Tell the Germans that they regularly used radio communications even at the highest headquarters level, in the presence of wire lines.
            Quote: Novel 11
            Do you want to comment on this? It’s strange. Is it difficult to recognize your own, less than a dozen?

            According to the experience of the interaction of submarines and one of the pickpockets in the Atlantic - yes, it’s difficult. As a result of this operation, one conclusion was made - NK and submarines must be bred in different squares, in order to avoid.
            Quote: Novel 11
            Even though captains are submariners without experience, but here you can take their roles for them, for example, notify which orders and courses the group will move in the areas of the curtains, the most inexperienced crews to prohibit shooting, conduct only reconnaissance of clearly specified squares, during the operation upon entering communication to follow orders exactly, if there are any fluctuations in attacks - cancel shooting, for example, there are no destroyers or tankers in your squadron, it’s clear that this is the enemy ...

            And now we introduce a couple of British submarines into all this grandeur. Just one torpedo aboard - and EM will begin to sink everything that they find under water. laughing
  10. Roman 11
    Roman 11 April 6 2018 18: 45
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    In which small area? Where are you going to deploy this squadron and how to lure the Allies there?

    Damn, is it so difficult for you to improvise? The Germans, by the way, on this adventure, fantasy is much wider. You run into some boundaries. I answer - at least where. Of course, this should be outside the range of the base aviation. There are several stages. We talk pointlessly, because we do not know the strength of the allies in the bases and patrol areas. Access to the Atlantic only after a clear assessment of the situation, i.e. a breakthrough through the Danish Strait is a separate stage, the curtains of submarines are partially pulled in there, destroyers and small-radius ships, including by refueling, aviation tracks ports and coastal waters, if possible.
    Then a square is built on the approaches to Britain, miles 800x800, are you satisfied? How many Germans did the submarines have by July – August 42nd? Of course, it will shrink and expand and shift in different directions. For example, the group of allies left Gibraltar and intercepted, and the Italians take this matter and land in the base, and what, unless they have the whole fleet enough for this?
    PS: Access to the ocean can be accompanied by massive air strikes at the bases and ports of Britain, Gibraltar. This is IMHO.

    Quote: Alexey RA
    I’ll tell you how this exit will end Kriegsmarine. The Germans will be met by Victories, Ranger and Wosp, covered by one of the Kings and a couple of American post-Washington troops. Moreover, AB can operate from anywhere in a radius of 200-250 miles from the target.

    Not tragic, the ports of France are not far, taking into account the underwater escort and the composition of the entire squadron. With the Count it will be a little easier to make decisions, more precisely to track, since long-range reconnaissance is carried out by submarines, and the decks track the exact disposition and composition of the adjacent side. It is important to simultaneously pull the curtains to the threatened area.
    Americans? Who is South Dakota? What can they do? Although Hitler was foolish here declaring war on the United States)))).
    Suppose you found the Fuhrer’s ships, it’s clear that you will also light up in this perimeter, and German aces are already rushing towards you. What will you do? The Germans will raise reconnaissance and fighter jets, begin to leave along the way obscuring by boats, put a smoke curtain during the attacks of the American decks. 3-4 aircraft carriers? Well, if they cause destruction, Midway had 2 squadrons of AB drowned the Mikumu for 2 days, and then it was badly damaged after the accident, + an American suicide bomber, + detonation of torpedoes in these light cases, for some reason the Japanese did not think of releasing them immediately to reduce the risk. Drowning warships at sea on deck is not easy, especially if the correct warrants, fighters, and the Germans had much better air defense than the Japanese.
    Who sank the American decks at sea? Musashi and Yamato, Kumano ... is that all? Mikumu remembered. This is their 25mm type air defense. The Japanese had such anti-aircraft guns, the worst of the worst - there was no volley, the ammunition was dispersed, the barrels were short, the lethal range was km with a tail)))), the bed was heavy and clumsy special for small Asians)))) the maximum was three-barrels. Why not 4 -h ?, here - weak rate of fire, in general, where you can’t spit everywhere it can’t be worse. Only a small air defense, the average was not. They had nothing but a good 100mm. And then ballistics was mainly because there were few of them on ships, and by the 44th without a radio fuse, their role had diminished, Americans used less airplanes.

    In addition, the aforementioned aircraft carriers were not very distinguished as shock, they were more engaged in escort than purely naval battle. And all this will happen when the Germans build up their underwater strength. If during the daylight the chance of success still shines for them, then in the dark the picture changes, the presence of 2-3 dozen boats and there is a huge danger for a strong grouping. Also from the guys with Tirpitz it is not clear what to expect.

    Of course the big Tirpitz is a tempting target, but in the warrant with the Scharnhorsts and on the sides by the Sheyrs-Hippers, everything is not so clear, and this arrangement is additional recognition of one's own.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Do not forget about the speed difference between surface and submarine ships.

    And full speed is not necessary, full - when air attacks are detected and followed. On the contrary, in the evening there is an interest in reducing the distance, so that in the morning or in the afternoon to get the shells of the enemy. Of course, you need to illuminate the ships in the dark so that your boats are not sunk, for each operation and every day its own lighting rule applies - for example, 2 or 4 light sources, etc., these are details. Allies in the area swarming with submarines will be more likely to adhere to light-camouflage.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 6 2018 20: 27
      +1
      Quote: Novel 11
      You run into some boundaries. I answer - at least where. Of course, this should be outside the range of the base aviation.

      That is, you need to pull out the entire German surface fleet and 100 submarines in the center of the Atlantic. Shika-a-arno.
      Just one question - where will we get the naval tankers for this?
      Quote: Novel 11
      Access to the Atlantic only after a clear assessment of the situation, i.e. a breakthrough through the Danish Strait is a separate stage, the curtains of submarines are partially pulled in there, destroyers and small-radius ships, including by refueling, aviation tracks ports and coastal waters, if possible.

      Which ports? What are you going to track Reykjavik and New York with? In Iceland alone, a connection from AB and LK - either British or American - may suddenly appear.
      And where is this armada refueling from - and how to ensure refueling without radio communications? Because the very first broadcast - and “Huff-Duff” gives a bearing, and several receivers - a square.
      Quote: Novel 11
      For example, the group of allies left Gibraltar and intercepted, and the Italians take this matter and land in the base, and what, unless they have the whole fleet enough for this?

      We speak from the same Italians who, with a group of LC and KRT, could not cope with the light cruisers RN and were forced to withdraw? smile
      And yes - read something Braghadina: what fifth point was happening at the Supermarine with fuel. To exit EM, they were forced to pump fuel from the aircraft. Because neither they nor the Germans had oil.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 6 2018 20: 28
      +1
      Quote: Novel 11
      Suppose you found the Fuhrer’s ships, it’s clear that you will also light up in this perimeter, and German aces are already rushing towards you. What will you do? The Germans will raise reconnaissance and fighter jets, begin to leave along the way obscuring by boats, put a smoke curtain during the attacks of the American decks. 3-4 aircraft carriers?

      If the Germans will be off the coast of France - nothing, they do not bother anyone there. If the Germans went beyond the radius of coastal fighters - an attack. “Slow but deadly” will reach the target any faster than the AUG will enter the submarine curtain zone.
      And yes - do you want to sow boats across the Atlantic? Let me remind you that the Americans tried to cover the Midway submarine. They knew the composition of the enemy’s forces and the approximate direction of the approach — but not one of the submarines was able to attack the Japanese compound on the move.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Drowning warships at sea on deck is not easy, especially if the correct warrants, fighters, and the Germans had much better air defense than the Japanese.

      For 1942, the Germans have 20-mm machine guns, which, according to American experience, are suitable only for that. to bombard already dropped bombs. There are 37-mm semi-automatic machines of the type our 21-K. And there is a SZA without radio fuses. All.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Who sank the American decks at sea? Musashi and Yamato, Kumano ... is that all?

      No - they forgot the Kinugasa CRT. In addition, the MRI of Chikuma, Suzuya, and Chokai were so damaged that they had to be finished off with their EM.
      Quote: Novel 11
      In addition, the aforementioned aircraft carriers were not very distinguished as shock, they were more engaged in escort than purely naval battle.

      “Victories”, in fact, managed to attack both Bismarck and Tirpitz during his service.
      And for “Wosp” with “Ranger” there were no goals - none of the Germans for some reason wanted to go into the area outside the coastal aviation radius. smile
      Quote: Novel 11
      And full speed is not necessary, full - when air attacks are detected and followed.

      You have a "cloud" of submarines should be shifted synchronously with the ships. If you deploy the submarine in advance. it may happen that German ships are attacked on the transition to the coverage area of ​​the submarines - and then the submarines will be useless. Or you have to drag along with submarines at 10-12 knots of travel.
  11. Roman 11
    Roman 11 April 7 2018 01: 21
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    That is, you need to pull out the entire German surface fleet and 100 submarines in the center of the Atlantic. Shika-a-arno.
    Just one question - where will we get the naval tankers for this?
    You are right the fuel problem was the place to be. But they don’t need to cruise communications, but rather they will be test exits for a possible interception of the next, or alleged convoy. I tend to 5-7 day stays in positions. There is no clear plan, only sketches, because everything comes from the main head, and he, as he has repeatedly emphasized, often foolishly.
    In its place, for example, few would risk fighting on 2 fronts, the war with the USSR is pure madness, although the foundation is solid, taking into account the possible connection of Japan - Turkey, this is without the stupid nonsense that Stalin did. After all, it was clear that the army was left without experienced leadership, they fought with experienced compact Germans, for whom everything was worked out, aviation, guns — they worked like clockwork. We have quite a mess - Zhukov, I was not at the headquarters, I can’t be the chief of the general staff, mustachioed - the POLITBURO decided to appoint you! That fought the whole war POLITBURO. Why didn’t the Finnish divisions and parts of Khalkhin-Gol be united in one front? Those who have gained experience, on the contrary, need to be developed and improved on exercises. We scattered throughout the western border, and the entire army of the 41st (millions), and experienced and ordinary fighters were lost. Another moment, Zhukov at a war game showed Pavlov correctly about the ledge, the danger of encirclement ... ... but being the chief of the general staff, he left everything that way !! Pavlov didn’t manage the front forces at all, but constantly disappeared in parts to monitor the situation, because there was almost no connection. And all the officers of the tsarist army who were injured in the 31st and, of course, Tukhachevsky were to blame, how could the old men, pensioners Svechin and Shorin, be without the renegade Yakir without him, because the Germans broke our army’s communications. No, well, let's say Pavlov had no experience of commanding the front, but why shoot? After all, they spread the French, but they did not put their own against the wall. In short, the people who were thrown in batches under tanks defeated
    I apologize out of place, but the possessed one was not deprived of an apron, he was lucky with Stalin, he was a genius, even a general strategist)))) he killed so many of his people ... ..
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Which ports? What are you going to track Reykjavik and New York with? In Iceland alone, a connection from AB and LK - either British or American - may suddenly appear.

    Actually, the agents are engaged in this, during the war I don’t remember where I read, the exits from America were first announced by the spies, then the boats flocked to them. You can also use neutral boats of the same whalers of the Swedes or the hodgepodge of Panamtsev, Greeks, Indians, they are also dressed as Brazilians, etc., in a word, these are working schemes for the Reich, I do not understand what bothers you. Their raiders just did not dress up, and fishermen from El Salvador, roughly speaking, will see and transmit everything, do not worry.
    To the extreme there are the same boats.

    Quote: Alexey RA
    We speak from the same Italians who, with a group of LC and KRT, could not cope with the light cruisers RN and were forced to withdraw?

    Yes, this is an option, by the way. It’s interesting, by the way, why not jointly venture into Gibraltar? What if the 1st throw to the French bases, then on high-speed transports (a couple of pieces there), pack up part of the squadron. And you need something 5-7 thousand. Of course, it is problematic with an airborne landing. But what kind of support is represented by Italians? How many battleships do they have? Yes, and there were boats, destroyers, by the way, they can transport German marines. What about pre-aerial bombardment? The main thing is to withdraw the airfield, then the coastal strongholds. Scrap like a small one, a lot of heavy bombs and the garrison may not be loaded. And here are linear gauges and cruisers.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    “Slow but deadly” will reach the target any faster than the AUG will enter the submarine curtain zone.

    Yes, I wrote that the square 800x800 + -
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Do you want to sow boats across the Atlantic?

    No, I’m interested in the interaction of this cadrat with the management group, i.e. squadron.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Americans tried to cover Midway PL. They know the composition of the enemy’s forces and the approximate direction of the approach — but not one of the submarines was able to attack the Japanese compound on the move.

    We probably read different sources, if the memory doesn’t fail, “Kaga” is attacked, but its owners said that the torpedo did not quit or passed by, and the boat captain seemed to insist that the torpedo still hit. I forgot the details, but this is not the main thing, the Germans had much more skilled craftsmen and teams, and snipers counted dozens of drowned men, and among them were those who had already sunk battleships and aircraft carriers, like Barham, Eagle, Korejis, Royal Oak. hands, and these are individual episodes, group attacks seem simpler - it is not known which side will fly, especially at night.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 9 2018 10: 36
      0
      Quote: Novel 11
      You are right the fuel problem was the place to be. But they don’t need to cruise communications, but rather they will be test exits for a possible interception of the next, or alleged convoy. I tend to 5-7 day stays in positions.

      The person proposing such a plan will be solemnly bitten by Goering right at the headquarters. The Germans do not have fuel for regular raids of "big pots".
      Quote: Novel 11
      Why didn’t the Finnish divisions and parts of Khalkhin-Gol be united in one front?

      And what would it give? How can the experience of breaking through a fortified defense strip with complete air supremacy in the air of the Red Army and multiple numerical superiority of the Red Army on earth help in repelling the blow of tank wedges? Or will the Germans attack the pillboxes?
      By the way, “Khalkhin-Gol units” are two divisions. And their entire experience is an attempt to pit the Japanese division with braking at every Japanese defense point. During the week of this process, the Japanese left "for the ribbon", which was recorded in the report of the NGO commission from Moscow.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Those who have gained experience, on the contrary, need to be developed and improved on exercises.

      And on the rest - to score? Our army has grown fourfold - who will prepare it? Well, your front will withstand the blow of a tank group (which is doubtful) - that’s how the Germans maneuver and strike their neighbors. And get another boiler.
      Quote: Novel 11
      We probably read different sources, if the memory doesn’t fail, “Kaga” is attacked, but its owners said that the torpedo did not quit or passed by, and the boat captain seemed to insist that the torpedo still hit. I forgot the details, but it’s not the main thing,

      Hehe hehe ... the main thing is the details. Trying to get closer to the Iaposnoy compound "Nautilus" was immediately driven into the water. The Japanese left, leaving one EM to hunt for the Nautilus. He dropped a few GB and went to connect with the main forces. By the way, it was precisely McCluskey who noticed him - and this EM pointed the way to his dive-men.
      To attack the “Nautilus” could only a few hours after the Japanese AB came under attack and lost their course.
  12. Roman 11
    Roman 11 April 7 2018 01: 22
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    For 1942, the Germans have 20-mm machine guns, which, according to American experience, are suitable only for that. to bombard already dropped bombs. There are 37-mm semi-automatic machines of the type our 21-K. And there is a SZA without radio fuses. All.

    And here in the photo like 105mm? Sheers also had. Flax 4-barrel when they appeared? If there were problems, then it would be possible to hurry anti-aircraft gunners. These are questions for the management, experience was also monitored, that carrier-based aviation is becoming dangerous, it is necessary to strengthen air defense, especially the near radius. 88mm and 105 were quite suitable, as well as any large versatile person, but the radio detonator is certainly a level and huge efficiency. Okay, the Yapes fell short with the preparation of the pilots, but if they had American air defense, the latter's decks would be tight, the Americans would never have a kamikaze, this Henderson and Mikuma were remembered, so that the Yapi would be more confident in battles, well, to meet with Mutsu ”and“ Musashi ”were not all Yankees dreamed of, even though they were joking with Okinawa there. It would be necessary for submariners to swell for everyone.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    forgot the krt Kinugasa. In addition, the MRI of Chikuma, Suzuya, and Chokai were so damaged that they had to be finished off with their EM.

    “Kinugasa” forgot how it died, “Suzuya” or “Chikuma” was stitched on the 9th! air bombs from escort aircraft carriers, planes in front of Kurita’s eyes and because of the clouds came up on the cruiser with fear, and they fell, somewhere in the pictures I saw fighters of battleships above these escort boats, there was fear from where, but again, be stronger than air defense, and even normal radars and the cruiser would have survived and the targets fell to the bottom. In addition, the Japanese noticed another oddity - excessive haste, just some kind of chaos bordering on animal heroism and courage. Okay, they threw wounded cruisers at Leite, this conditionally “Suzuya” exploded from 9 bombs, possibly also because of the detonation of their heavy torpedoes. And 2 others? Or was Kurita strongly described that Halsey could intercept? It seems that he read that he was oppressed by the loss of Musashi, the constant attacks from the air the day before, he had sunk 3 submarine cruisers, so he went up to the bay discouraged, hence the inhibition in teams and the haste when fleeing. Zhukov was right then, a Japanese soldier in the mass of the hero, but their generals are constrained, uninitiated. Mikawa flashed at Savo and somehow immediately withered, he could have destroyed the transport, but he was apparently dribbling great. You can also recall the episodes, “Hiru”, judging by the pictures, is simply scattered, would risk leaving the destroyer, look and push the range of the Japanese from Wake - that's the aircraft carrier, we haven’t seen the “Akagi” and “Kaga” yet. And with the Hornet there’s a paradox at all, it’s even been captured, but they thought it was time to retreat, but you need to tow it)))). Who knows, would have burned as "Yorktown", but would have stopped. There is no enemy nearby, we are all leaving and finished off by destroyers - what if another aircraft carrier for the emperor? You can also leave the destroyer, but the ship is golden, there is no price for the same anti-aircraft guns, would you also unlock it, hi Yankees))).
    Quote: Alexey RA
    “Victories”, in fact, managed to attack both Bismarck and Tirpitz during his service.

    Well, yes, that same torpedo, all his exploit. Tirpitz was in the base and this is the 43rd. By the way, he only noted there, thanks to the quickness of German fighters, which for some reason did not wait, but the radars spotted in time.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Or you have to drag along with submarines at 10-12 knots of travel.

    This is an assumption. The exit stage is provided by boats in the curtains. Those. on the approaches and in the Danish Channel themselves, they appear in advance. Then this structure is shifted under the expected convoy. Speed ​​does not matter, they can have 5-7 knots, ships and submarines are initially sharpened for battle with a stronger opponent, morality is important for a small group, but they have no doubts in moments - it seems like this or not. They saw, appreciated, if they could, destroyed it, if not, they retreated and hired submarines, track the result, and depending on it, choose a solution. Ideally, I repeat, the squadron walks inside the square and conducts its course. The convoy is not a box of matches, it’ll be locked out of love and the meeting will most likely be at the center of the Atlantic, or closer to Britain, the trucks are heavy and slow, they have nowhere to dodge, if turned, the submarines will be able to catch up. But most likely the Anglo-Saxons will go to the interception, but do not turn them every time, otherwise the blockade - they returned two times, and then the British and there is nothing to refuel the planes, and other valuable materials are required. So on this side, the conclusion is clear. Another thing is how to screw the Italians here? Help in several battleships is not unnecessary, and the cruisers are normal.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 9 2018 13: 55
      0
      Quote: Novel 11
      Flax 4-barrel when they appeared?

      What is the difference how many trunks, if the caliber is still the same 20 mm. According to the experience of the Americans, the 20-mm airlikon is a weapon of the last line of defense, which can only be fired at by diving divers.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Okay, the yapes fell short with the preparation of the pilots, but if they had American air defense, the last decks would be tight

      To do this, you need nothing at all — for Japan’s industry to reach US level. smile
      Let me remind you that even the Americans took two years to bring Oerlikon and Bofors to the series. Moreover, after this refinement in the same “Bofors”, only the caliber remained from the original.
      The initial documentation was suitable only for small-scale production of automated control systems by highly skilled workers with manual fine-tuning of parts and systems during the assembly process.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Okay, they threw wounded cruisers at Leite, this conditionally “Suzuya” exploded from 9 bombs, possibly also because of the detonation of their heavy torpedoes. And 2 others? Or was Kurita strongly described that Halsey could intercept?

      What else was Smoke to do? Tugging the SRT is to hamper the towing maneuvers and expose them to the attacks of all Tuffy aircraft in the area. In short - Operation Verp in Japanese execution. Plus, time does not wait, Halsey runs south, trying to cut Kurita from the strait. In real life, the Americans were late. But the Kurita compound bound by towing damaged KRT may not have time to leave.
      Quote: Novel 11
      Well, yes, that same torpedo, all his exploit. Tirpitz was in the base and this is the 43rd.

      Oh-ho-ho ... "that same torpedo" is the "Arc Royal". “Avoski” “Victories” attacked before him - May 24, in the evening - and achieved one torpedo hit in the midship area.
      And “Tirpitz” was attacked by the “Albacores” of “Victories” on March 9, 1942. There were no hits this time.
      Quote: Novel 11
      The exit stage is provided by boats in the curtains. Those. on the approaches and in the Danish Channel themselves, they appear in advance. Then this structure is shifted under the expected convoy.

      That is, do you propose deploying ships and submarines of Kriegsmarine in the strait next to the largest intermediate naval convoy and anti-submarine forces RN, RCN and USN and the largest Atlantic air base of base patrol aviation? belay
      Quote: Novel 11
      The convoy is not a box of matches, they will fix the way out of love and the meeting will most likely be at the center of the Atlantic, or closer to Britain, the trucks are heavy and slow, they have nowhere to dodge, if turned, the submarines will be able to catch up.

      Closer to Britain - no chance. There in 1942 the Command of the Western Approaches just unfolded in full. And the center of the Atlantic still needs to be reached.
      1. Roman 11
        Roman 11 April 10 2018 18: 46
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        What is the difference how many trunks, if the caliber is still the same 20 mm.

        For some reason, I was sure that the Flakki were longer, therefore longer-range, of the Erlikons, and also the 4-barrel saws were much more serious than the Japanese 3-saws, not to mention the Amer single-barrel.
        Flakvierling 38 turned out to be aimed only at 2200, really flimsy. Then it’s all the more modular - to reduce the charge, to lengthen the cartridge and the barrel of the machine gun, perhaps to slightly increase the weight of the cartridge, for density ... .. Probably to squeeze 5000 effective firing forces if only to maintain a high rate of fire.
        At the same time, quarter 37mm, of course they are not so fast-firing, but already a great distance.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        To do this, you need nothing at all — for Japan’s industry to reach US level.
        Let me remind you that even the Americans took two years to bring Oerlikon and Bofors to the series.

        This was said in the image. It would be if ... ... then the Japanese fleet turned out to be much more stable, and the Kumano example was not successful, the ship was in fact alone in the convoy, the attacks were massive, no one closed it from the air, in fact 8x127mm. In such an environment, some submarines fired at it over 20 torpedoes and hit twice. Of course, the impact of an entire carrier fleet and 4 submarines is simply overwhelming superiority for a modest defense. If he had an Amer’s air defense and everything would be unambiguous here.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        "the same torpedo" is the "Arc Royal". “Avoski” “Victories” attacked before him - May 24, in the evening - and achieved one torpedo hit in the midship area.

        So what? That's why it is a war, someone falls, someone cannot. Amer’s air defense was the best, the Germans without war with the USSR, at sea would have had a stronger defense and numerical strength. I am sure that by 42-43 they would have expelled the British from naval superpowers, most likely the fleet would have sent them west, ports and bases under prolonged bombing were a poor place of detention, so the British were lucky.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        That is, do you propose deploying ships and submarines of Kriegsmarine in the strait next to the largest intermediate naval convoy and anti-submarine forces RN, RCN and USN and the largest Atlantic air base of base patrol aviation?

        Is there really a choice? There were no other roads to the ocean.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Closer to Britain - no chance. There in 1942 the Command of the Western Approaches just unfolded in full. And the center of the Atlantic still needs to be reached.

        But we do not know the capabilities of the Germans at sea by this time, in the case of a naval scenario for them to war. For example, could they start releasing strategic bombers? Would they invade Britain? Would they capture Malta and Gibraltar? Would they build new heavy ships? Modification of weapons, etc., etc. There are many questions, we can only guess
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 11 2018 10: 21
          0
          Quote: Novel 11
          At the same time, quarter 37mm, of course they are not so fast-firing, but already a great distance.

          The German 37-mm Kriegsmarine submachine gun was received only by 1944. They even put Norwegian (Waffenfabrik Kongsberg) and Hungarian (MAVAG) assemblies on the ships in order to somehow plug a hole between 20 mm and SZA.
          Quote: Novel 11
          I am sure that by 42-43 they would have expelled the British from naval superpowers, most likely the fleet would have sent them west, ports and bases under prolonged bombing were a poor place of detention, so the British were lucky.

          The Germans already tried to exclude limes with the help of backlash in 1940. And then in 1941. It turned out that the Reich did not have enough planes and pilots to gain air supremacy over the south of the Island. And that even nine hundred planes cannot prevent limes from preventing the landing of amphibious assaults (Crete).
          In 1942-1943 it was even worse: since 1941, the United States has virtually openly entered the war on the side of the World Bank, delivering half of the equipment produced to the Islands. And since March 1941, the Inspection Commission of the US Army and Navy, dealing with the deployment of the American armed forces, has already been on the Islands.
          That is, whatever the Reich attacks on the USSR, the United States enters the war in late 1941 - early 1942. And for this entry they did everything possible, provoking both the Reich and Japan.
          Quote: Novel 11
          But we do not know the capabilities of the Germans at sea by this time, in the case of a naval scenario for them to war.

          The problem is that for the maritime scenario, the Germans need to successfully carry out Barbarossa on schedule. For the USSR, even according to the plans of 1940, demanded the presence of 100-120 divisions to deter possible creeps during the Sea Lion. And then his army only increased - and there were no guarantees that once again the limes would not sign the “Russian steam rink” to fight for themselves.
          1. Roman 11
            Roman 11 April 11 2018 19: 31
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            to somehow plug a hole between 20 mm and SZA.

            Hmm, the Fritz yawned the middle distance, like the Axis as a whole and the Union, and the British, too, at the beginning ... ... if it weren’t for the Americans, they definitely would.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The Germans already tried to exclude limes with the help of backlash in 1940. And then in 1941. It turned out that the Reich did not have enough planes and pilots to gain air supremacy over the south of the Island.

            No, here the factor of the future war worked for us more. Somewhere in the summer or early fall (2-3 months) they still tried to attack from the air, then with a change of situation in their plans they switched to episodic bombing. Losses were on both sides.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            since 1941, the United States has virtually openly entered the war on the side of the VBR, supplying half of the manufactured equipment to the Islands.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            That is, whatever the Reich attacks on the USSR, the United States enters the war in late 1941 - early 1942. And for this entry they did everything possible, provoking both the Reich and Japan.

            It turns out the Japanese hurried up? Roosevelt’s oil embargo is certainly serious. It was necessary for them to complete in China.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            For the USSR, even according to the plans of 1940, demanded the presence of 100-120 divisions to deter possible creeps during the Sea Lion. And then his army only increased

            The mass congestion is not much use, the Finnish clearly showed this, and Comrade Stalin, after the triumph of the possessed Europeans, experienced a panic. In his meetings and speeches, he emphasized the defenses of the Union, but after the Finnish it somehow completely subsided ... ... So the threat from the east is imaginary, and then we did not really want to intervene for the British. So the Führer could systematically group several million of his satellites and allies into any place.
  13. bone1
    bone1 April 8 2018 21: 17
    0
    In general, the Germans themselves hung a collar around their necks. laughing
  14. Avior
    Avior 12 July 2018 15: 31
    0
    Somehow, the article missed the small but important participation of the USSR in the capture of Norway, and specifically Narvik.
    It was from there that the Basis Nord, which had never really worked, of the base provided to the USSR by the Germans near Murmansk (the first German U-36 submarine sent there to organize the base, the British drowned, the full base as a result was never organized, although German ships based there) went to refuel the German destroyers in Narvik, which were empty after a long transition, the German supply vessel Jan Wellem.
    Jan Wellem was the only one to reach Narvik, although the British intercepted and drowned other German supply vessels, they were not expected from the USSR. A significant part of the supply of Swedish iron ore, which Germany really needed, went through Narvik.
    The German ambassador von Schulenburg, on instructions from Berlin, in an interview with Molotov on September 9 conveyed deep gratitude and appreciation to the Soviet government for the provided strong points on the Murmansk coast. He noted that "Germany has benefited immensely from these bases. At present, the bases are no longer needed, and so far we are refusing to use them and withdraw our auxiliary vessels from there, so as not to create unnecessary difficulties and worries for the Soviet government." In response, Molotov expressed his satisfaction that the help of the USSR to the Germans was useful. According to him, "this can be perceived as a good thing that has benefited Germany." In addition, on September 16, the commander-in-chief of the Soviet fleet Kuznetsov received a thank-you note from his German colleague Raeder on the same occasion.