Military Review

Suffered for the faith. Part one

273
Not so often, a set of documents falls into the hands of a person, allowing you to trace this or that in detail historical event. Why? Yes, because even these documents collected in the archive are still fragmented. In addition, there are a lot of them, and they are often written in clumsy handwriting and on yellowed, crumbling paper in the hands. To work out one such document is not an easy task. But what if there are ... thousands of them? People who set themselves such a goal are worthy of all respect, no matter what historical theme they choose for such work, but those who deal with documents relating to the monstrous repressions of the 30s of the last century, carried out in honor of the so-called “deserve a thousand times more respect” social justice. ” Not everyone imagines, for example, that among the executed and convicted, the main contingent were not marshals, commanders, “red professors”, KGB and “old Bolsheviks,” but simple hardworking peasants. There were more than 60% of them on the lists executed and put in camps. Which of them are Trotskyists and Japanese spies? The peasantry was simply liquidated as a class, just as the English peasantry was liquidated in the era of fencing and "bloody laws" against vagrants and beggars.



Here it is, this Penza "Mortirolog".

Another blow was dealt in the spiritual realm. It is no exaggeration to say that the 20th century, which brought global social disasters to mankind, entered the history of the Russian Orthodox Church as well as an era that gave the Universe Church innumerable sufferers for the faith of Christ and holy martyrs. The God-fighting ideology that triumphed in Russia in 1917 fiercely attacked the Russian Church with persecutions comparable only to those of the first Christians. These blows, which destroyed the Holy Church in our Fatherland - 1917-1919 and 1922 years, then merged into constant persecution of the Church and reached their zenith in the 1937-1938 years, and then continued in different forms until the 1000-anniversary of the Baptism of Russia . During this long, more than 70-year period, many thousands and thousands of Orthodox Christians — from church hierarchs to ordinary peasants living in the old religious order — suffered brutal repressions — were put to death and were sent to prisons and camps for the name of Christ, for freedom of conscience, in words proclaimed by the Soviet government.

And there were three people in Penza: Alexander Dvorzhansky, Sergey Zelev, and archpriest Vladimir Klyuev, who reviewed thousands of cases convicted for their faith, recruited employees of the FSB office in the Penza region, who undertook the hard work of investigating cases stored in the archive of the administration, and as a result of all these works they prepared the “Penza martyrology of the victims for the faith of Christ” - “The righteous will live by faith” in 583 pages. The work on the Mortirolog continued for as many 17 years. It contains more 2200 names of people affected by the faith. Victims in different ways: who was put for three years, and someone got the highest measure. Surprisingly, among the last many women are nuns. Could they have blown up trains, stolen kolkhoz grain, or poured sand into rubbing parts. Judging by their cases, they were shot simply because they were ... nuns. They shot women, not men, who could take in hand weapon. Or was the Soviet government so afraid of their courage and the words they could say? The fact that such a “punishment” is already unjust is undoubtedly, and in its essence, and simply criminal.


Page of "mortirologist"

However, the Church itself considered their death and regards it as a martyrdom feat for confessing the Orthodox faith, and is revered as one of the Christian virtues, as a gift from God, as a worthy crown of mortal life. The meaning of martyrdom consists in the complete and final rejection of oneself for the love of Christ, following the Savior to the sufferings of the cross, in his crucifixion and eternal union with God. The Lord Jesus Christ himself, through the holy Apostles, repeatedly spoke about this in the Scripture: “But if anyone who is hostile for Me and I, let himself be rejected, and take up his cross, and for Me to come” (Matt. 16, 24).

And among the people this feat of martyrdom has always been revered. The ancient Christians with great reverence kept the memory of the martyrs crucified on the crosses torn by lions in the arenas of ancient circuses. Their honest remains were removed from the crosses, buried with honors, and their righteous blood, like a shrine, was scraped by the hands of believers from circus arenas. Legends about their lives and deeds were carefully passed from mouth to mouth, from generation to generation. You can not take it all, you can laugh at it, and out loud, and to yourself, but it is impossible to cross it out, because in all of this, like in many other things, our culture, our civilization, is impossible to cross out.

Information about new martyrs began to be collected in Russia since the beginning of the persecutions of the Church. Thus, in one of the points of the resolution of the Holy Council of the Orthodox Russian Church of 18 on April 1918, it says: "Instruct the Supreme Church Administration to collect information and notify the Orthodox population through print publications and live words about all cases of persecution of the Church and violence against confessors of the Orthodox faith.

So the authors of “Mortirologa” did everything to extract from non-existence the names that were unfairly damaged during the years of repression for their religious beliefs. And now Penza residents can find out who they are, tortured for faith, whose fates are revealed in this book before their eyes. These were people of different origins, by education and their occupations, but somehow connected with the Orthodox faith, which for millennia was the basis of all Russian spirituality, culture and statehood. Whether this is good or bad - again, nothing can be changed here. It was! Orthodoxy, as the dominant religion of old Russia, was studied in all educational institutions. Fathers and grandfathers taught children to read the Psalms, the word of God was pronounced from the pulpits of temples; Church celebrations, religious processions, the glorification of the saints — all these events formed the basis of not only the spiritual, but also the secular life of the Russian people, since people did not work on church holidays. The whole life of a Russian person, his whole life, all his aspirations and undertakings were imbued and sanctified with faith in God. The spirit of faith and the fear of God have always lived in the Russian people, and with the coming of the God-given time, many people could not simply and change their Christian ideals, reject the past, lose their spiritual support.


And one more - someone's fate ...

Modern studies show that a significant part of modern Russian society could not fully adapt to the destruction of the Soviet system and the new market economy. They experience stress and psychological discomfort. Many take antidepressants, the sale of which is growing continuously. But after all, the same thing took place after the 1917 year, and even almost to a greater extent, only then no one had ever heard of psychotherapists, and alcohol was the main antidepressant.

Moreover, the Russian Church immediately after 1917 experienced a hostile attitude on the part of the Soviet authorities, and it was then that the first blows were inflicted on her clergy. It is not surprising that in the "Martyrology" clergy representatives make up more than half of his personalities. Many of the priests were famous and respected people in the Penza province. Educated and cultured people. People of high moral qualities. With faith and truth, they sometimes served God and their people for several decades in the same parish: they built churches, almshouses and schools, struggled with social vices, engaged in local history, published spiritual literature. As a result, they became objects of monstrous attacks from the side of the new Soviet society, which for its existence required enemies not only external, but also internal. And who, by the way, were those who came to replace them, was their spiritual culture and their moral duty to society so high?

The other large group is, as has already been written, the peasantry. The peasants, being church parishioners, were often very pious, served as chairmen of church councils, sang in church choirs and actively helped the priesthood. It would not be an exaggeration to consider that it was the peasantry in Russia that was the main social group in which Orthodox traditions were accumulated and preserved for centuries. Therefore, the number of victims for the faith could well be attributed to those who were expropriated and exiled during the years of collectivization. In addition to the clergy and laity who were repressed during the years of Soviet power for their membership of the Russian Orthodox Church, the book also mentions some landowners and merchants who, although they did not go directly to church affairs, but nonetheless suffered, being cathedrals, builders of temples and church benefactors.

A special group of repressed clergymen, who were bred in a special section at the end of the book, are representatives of the renovationist and Gregorian tendencies, who evaded the canonical Patriarchal Church and never reconciled with it until their death. Nevertheless, they also suffered for the faith, although they shied away from the accepted canonical way.

The absolute majority of the people mentioned in the martyrology were brought to criminal responsibility under the 58 article of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, that is, for anti-Soviet activities. The latter was interpreted very widely, which made it possible to fight the enemies of the regime, proceeding not so much from the criminal component of the case, as from its political basis. And since religious activity was viewed as one of the types of anti-Soviet agitation, it is clear that it was the clergymen who came under the 58 article in the first place.


And this is also a nun and also shot ...

The book omitted the fact that there was such a measure as the deprivation of civil rights, and it applied to all clergy and staff of temples without exception. The beginning of this repressive measure dates back to the 1920 years. The “Lyshentsy”, in fact, were expelled from society. They were banned from the right to work in state institutions, they could not study in Soviet schools and other educational institutions, or join collective farms. They became outcasts of Soviet society, people who in essence were condemned to hunger and death. But many families of people associated with religion were large, where there were 10 children and more people. And the arrest of parents became a deep nervous shock for young children's souls. They knew that their parents, father and mother, did not do anything bad, they did not plan evil against the authorities, for “slaves obey not only good masters, but also harsh ones” - and they remembered it. Nevertheless, the authorities doomed such children to orphanage, and they dragged out a miserable existence in children's homes, children's homes, were mocked and insulted by the “right” Soviet collectives. What was there in their hearts that none of the Soviet leaders was interested in.

In "Martyrology" a lot of different sources. The authors cite documents, give excerpts from the surviving letters, copies of interrogation protocols and the memories of individuals, which makes it possible to better understand the life of the people described in it. It also contains a lot of photos, both pre-revolutionary and investigative photos from the cases of the victims, their relatives, the houses where they lived, the churches, where their ministry took place, and various documents. The most brief biographies are “born, served, shot,” or such: “Sentenced to 10 years of ITL”. And now think about what is behind this short line: night searches and arrests, crying of children, separation from his beloved wife, long night interrogations, beatings, seeing off on the platform, transfers through escorts, months-long carriages in dirty carriages and holds, and then - deep snow, dank barracks, ice slaughterhouses, logging, diseases, frostbite, death, rare letters to relatives on scraps of wrapping paper, soul chill and one thought - “For what, Lord?” and the thought behind it is “Forgive them, Lord for they know not what is yours Hm! "

But again, it is important to emphasize that these people suffered all their torments not for "politics" and not for "hesitating along with the party course", they suffered for believing in the ideal of Christ, for the Orthodox Church. And in the feat of this suffering, as in the first centuries, the greatness of the Christian spirit was fully manifested. Of the total number of people who were repressed for the faith and the Church associated with the Penza land, more than 30 people have already been glorified by the Russian Church in the face of saints, and the new martyrs and confessors of Russia are counted among the Council. Among them are the martyrs John (Pommer), the archbishop of Riga; Tikhon (Nikanorov), Archbishop of Voronezh; Augustine (Belyaev), Archbishop of Kaluga; Peacock (Kroshechkin), Archbishop of Mogilev; Thaddeus (Assumption), Archbishop of Tver; Hermogenes (Dolganev), Bishop of Tobolsk; Theodore (Smirnov), Bishop of Penza; Archpriest John Artobolevsky, Evfimy Goryachev, Vasily Yagodin; Priest Philaret Velikanov, Mikhail Pyataev, Vasily Smirnov, Gabriel Arkhangelsky, Arefa Nasonov, Vasily Gorbachev, Afanasy Milov, John Dneprovsky, Victor Europeans, Peter Pokrovsky; deacons Mikhail Isaev, Grigory Samarin; martyr hegumen Methodius (Ivanov), hieromonk Pakhomiy Skanovsky (Ionov), hieromonk Gerasim (Sukhov); clergymen Archimandrite Gabriel Melekesky (Igoshkin) and Archimandrite Alexander Sanaksarsky (Ugly); priest Ioann Olenevsky (Kalinin); Martyr Abbess Eva Chimkentskaya (Pavlova) and nun Elena (Astashkina); Martyr Agrippina Kiseleva Karaganda. Priest Nikolai Prozorov was canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad in 1981.


This “Mortirolog” is also interesting because there are a lot of truly unique photos in it.

Four candidates were represented from the Penza diocese for canonization: elder-priest Ioann Olenevsky, bishop Theodore (Smirnov) and priests Gavriil Arkhangelsky and Vasily Smirnov who suffered with him. The rest were nominated by other dioceses. The Day of Memory of the New Martyrs and Confessors of Penza established the 4 of September, which is the day of the death of Vladyka Theodore (Smirnov) and those who were killed with him.

Of course, today almost all people named in the martyrology have been rehabilitated. But what does this fact mean? This is nothing more than the natural result of the democratization of our society, but it does not add anything significant to the biography of these people who have already committed their martyrdom.

To be continued ...
Author:
273 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vard
    Vard April 10 2018 05: 10
    +13
    Why not remember the Old Believers ... How many of them were burned in tsarist Russia at one time ...
    1. K.A.S.
      K.A.S. April 10 2018 06: 17
      +12
      Let's remember! and here we will see that self-immolation was a protest! People had a choice, they could just flee the country, they could burn themselves! and what kind of choice did the nuns have and what crime did they commit for a firing squad?
      Discomfort in the union: it's like a slave left without a master does not know what to do!
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 April 10 2018 07: 15
        +5
        Quote: K.A.S.
        self-immolation

        It was not only self-immolation.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 10 2018 06: 55
      +17
      Quote: Vard
      Why not remember the Old Believers ... How many of them were burned in tsarist Russia at one time ...

      Selfthe burnings were already in .....17 century! And how many were there?
      In the USSR, it was a question of MILLIONS of repressed people and this was in the middle of the 20th century, after the jury trial that had already existed in Russia!
      It was a rollback to the dark Middle Ages, but on a much larger scale.
      It is terrible to read such Mortyrologists: the mind refuses to perceive these atrocities in relation to its fellow citizens !.
      I read a memory book in the Smolensk region: repressed .... shepherds, blacksmiths, housewives ....
      about the Russian Orthodox Church: out of 60 thousand churches, parishes and monasteries, by 000 they remained active 340! It was murder the institution that over the centuries has made Russia Russia, the murder of Russia.

      Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich for the raised topic. hi
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 April 10 2018 08: 06
        +17
        Stop lying about * self-immolation *.
        The centuries-old ferocity of the introduction of Christianity did not spare anyone. There is even evidence of * baptismal * evidence of baptism. Believers are only touched by what kind of blood this happened. Under the Romanovs, Christianity became a state faith. Then the church became the richest in the land and in slaves. The church traded people whom she herself baptized, that is, the church did not refuse to have * a soul * for her goods. After the * schism * those who were observed not observing the canon of church service were sometimes killed by whole villages. It was then that * self-immolation * appeared, it was when the lordly guys after * stripping * burned all the corpses. The military teams of the monasteries along with the soldiers created the RUSSIAN EMPIRE. According to some accounts, it was worth a third of the population. And how many church prisons were there? And how many went through these prisons. The most famous prison was on Solovki. This is a church prison and how many people have disappeared without a trace in it over the centuries? But in a cry for * innocent * they remember only * the victims * of the SOVIET AUTHORITY, which used hardly one tenth of the church prison
        In 1917, the temporary ones abolished the obligatory attendance of divine services and the churches were empty at once. And when gold began to be withdrawn, the entire church shobla was not only excited, but also very actively supported the whites and interventionists and all sorts of different batik atamans.
        It has always amazed how the church reveals criminals. In all * zones * always have their own pop who absenteeism.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 09: 13
          +2
          Quote: Vasily50
          Stop lying about * self-immolation *.

          Are you able to refute? No? Why then these big words?
          Quote: Vasily50
          But in a cry for * innocent * they remember only * the victims * of the SOVIET AUTHORITY, whichused hardly one tenth of church prison

          IN RUSSIAN explain what is it? belay
        2. dSK
          dSK April 10 2018 09: 25
          +6
          Quote: Vasily50
          Stop lying
          gentlemen atheists! "Beware of false prophetsthat come to you in sheep's clothing, and inside are wolves predatory. By their fruits you recognize them. Are grapes harvested from blackthorn, or figs from burdock? So every good tree brings good fruits, and a bad tree brings bad fruits. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear the fruit of good is cut down and thrown into the fire. " (Matthew 7: 15-19)
          1. kalibr
            April 10 2018 12: 53
            +5
            And you can recall this:

            “And the one who listens to My words and does not fulfill them can be compared with the person who built the house on earth without foundation. As soon as the river collapsed on the house, it collapsed, and its fall was great” (Matthew 7:24 –27).

            And we all know how this "house" was called, where it stood, and in what year it turned around!
        3. Basil50
          Basil50 April 10 2018 09: 49
          +14
          About how the champions of democracies and churches got excited.
          It is amazing how the church and the followers of the Jew Christ forgive themselves.
          And yet, for the uneducated, the Russian Orthodox Church became the Russian Orthodox Church only in 1943, before that it was written in documents - Greek Catholic. The Church Abroad, with which the Russian Orthodox Church merged today, supported the Nazis and Hitler personally.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 10 2018 11: 11
            +3
            Quote: Vasily50
            And yet, for the uneducated, the Russian Orthodox Church became the Russian Orthodox Church only in 1943, before that it was written in documents - Greek Catholic.

            I’m ignorant, they’ve already pointed out a million times that the Russian Church has never been “Greek-Catholic” in any documents NOT called!
            How much can this carry nonsense? fool
          2. Conserp
            Conserp April 13 2018 22: 27
            0
            Quote: Vasily50
            The Church Abroad, with which the Russian Orthodox Church merged today, supported the Nazis and Hitler personally.

            By the way, the Russian Orthodox Church now officially considers all who fought against Hitler to be heretics.

            Great organization, I think.
        4. BAI
          BAI April 10 2018 09: 55
          +7
          The centuries-old ferocity of the introduction of Christianity did not spare anyone.

          The Incas and Aztecs could tell especially well about this if they survived.
        5. Weyland
          Weyland April 11 2018 09: 35
          +1
          Quote: Vasily50
          The most famous prison was on Solovki. This is a church prison and how many people have disappeared without a trace in it over the centuries?

          В hundreds times less than on the same Solovki during the first two decades of the Soviet am authorities!
      2. Hoc vince
        Hoc vince April 10 2018 08: 43
        +7
        New martyrs and confessors of the XNUMXth century are a special phenomenon in history. In the last century, the number of victims of faith in Russia was compared with the number of martyrs of the first centuries of Christianity.
        Everlasting memory.
        1. BAI
          BAI April 10 2018 09: 53
          +7
          In the last century, the number of victims of faith in Russia was compared with the number of martyrs of the first centuries of Christianity.

          Well, why so much growth? Just because they died at the hands of the Bolsheviks, not the Romans?
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Conserp
          Conserp April 13 2018 19: 17
          +2
          Quote: Hoc vince
          In the last century, the number of victims of faith in Russia was compared with the number of martyrs of the first centuries of Christianity.

          Under Putin, we also have a huge number of victims of faith - martyr-martyrs.

          Urgently run to remember and repent.
          1. Hoc vince
            Hoc vince April 13 2018 21: 02
            0
            "Under Putin, there is also a huge number of victims of our faith - martyr-martyrs"
            What are you talking about? Who tormented where? Call - this is a huge amount, sources?
            1. Conserp
              Conserp April 13 2018 22: 31
              +1
              Basayev, Baraev, Khattab, Dudayev, Maskhadov, Abu Umar, Raduyev, Gelayev ...

              About each personally cry.
              1. Hoc vince
                Hoc vince April 14 2018 10: 18
                0
                Do you distinguish terrorists from believers?
                Well, personally, so personally, but in detail and with sources
                1. Conserp
                  Conserp April 14 2018 11: 15
                  +2
                  They suffered just as much for the faith.

                  You do not evade, a lover of double standards and cry for criminals.
      3. BAI
        BAI April 10 2018 10: 07
        +18
        It was the assassination of the institution that made Russia Russia over the centuries, the assassination of Russia.

        It was the murder of an institute that impeded the development of Russia. Peter I had a conflict with the church (he melted the bells) - Russia made a sharp jump in development, in the USSR there was a conflict with the church - a giant jump in development, we still use the fruits of the USSR’s development (and it’s not necessary to say that “if it’s not a revolution, then ... History does not know the subjunctive moods.) And now we have an indisputable fact - NONE of the Orthodox states have achieved significant successes in science, technology and economics. What Russia has and is proud of (and even just save) from destruction) - the legacy of the “godless” USSR.
        1. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 10: 48
          +4
          Quote: BAI
          in the USSR there was a conflict with the church

          What exactly was the conflict? Please show what it consisted of, where are its parties and all the essential issues of this "conflict".
          1. BAI
            BAI April 10 2018 11: 26
            +8
            The author gives you lists of the executed. Is this not a conflict? No need to find fault with the fact that the USSR appeared later. Everywhere was Soviet power.
            You can choose any number:
            Rector of the St. Tikhon Theological Institute, Archpriest V. Vorobyov: "There has never been such persecution in Russia as in the twentieth century in two thousand years. And no other Church has ever given God as many martyrs as the Russian Church ... We received lists repressed clergy, approximately 2500 names created a database of new martyrs containing 9000 biographical articles. "

            Deacon Andrei Kuraev: "Over the years of unheard-of persecution, the Russian Church lost only those killed more 200000 clerics. Over half a million clerics have been repressed. "

            Historian N.A. Krivova: "According to the latest statistics from the Orthodox St. Tikhon Institute, the total number of repressed clergy in 1921-1923 amounted to 10000 people, every fifth person was shot, all in all - about 2000 man ... The dynamics of repression speaks of an increase in the number of victims, 1929-1931. - 5 times more than in 1922, 1937 - 20 times more than in 1922".

            If in your opinion this is peace and friendship - well, go ahead ...
            1. BAI
              BAI April 10 2018 11: 38
              +15
              PS. And as always a little arithmetic:
              the number of repressed clerics in 1921-1923 amounted to 10000 people, every fifth person was shot, in total - about 2000 people ... The dynamics of repression indicates an increase in the number of victims, 1929-1931. - 5 times more than in 1922, 1937 - 20 times more than in 1922. "

              The number of registered worshipers was more than 1937 in February 24000. Naturally, this list included clergymen of all religious communities registered in the USSR: Orthodox Tikhonov, renovationists, Old Believers, Baptists, evangelists, Muslims, and Catholics, and Jews. How did this number turn out to be 200 thousand repressed Orthodox priests?
            2. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 13: 12
              +7
              Quote: BAI
              The author gives you lists of the executed. Is this not a conflict? No need to find fault with the fact that the USSR appeared later. Everywhere was Soviet power.

              This is not a conflict. This, excuse me, is the genocide of the inhabitants of their country who do not share certain convictions of the authorities of this country, but do not conflict with it.

              Conflict is a situation in which each side seeks to take a position that is incompatible and opposite in relation to the interests of the other side.

              Where and when did the Church strive to take a position incompatible with the position of the new government? Even the notorious "seizure of church values" was accepted by the patriarch, the only thing he wanted - adequate control over where these values ​​go - to purchase food for the needs of the starving, etc., since the danger of "personal enrichment" of the seizures was very high and reasonable.
              So it was precisely the conflict in its direct understanding that was not there. There was simply reprisal against those who were potentially considered dangerous, because instead of Christianity, a new religion - communism should have become dominant in the country. That's all.
              1. BAI
                BAI April 10 2018 16: 57
                +9
                So it was precisely the conflict in its direct understanding that was not there. It was just reprisal

                Take the aforementioned N.A. Krivov, who cannot be suspected of loving the Soviet regime (as we see from its calculations):
                N. Krivova: "The civil war exacerbated relations between the government and the Church, since the bulk of the Orthodox clergy joined the ranks of the opponents of Soviet power. Only in the Urals from October 1917 to 1920 118 anti-Soviet speeches with the participation of the clergy, 13 of them armed".

                For this is a well-deserved punishment. Even ROC apologists recognize that the Church, to put it mildly, actively opposed the Soviet government. We all know that they were shot for much smaller crimes.
                1. Weyland
                  Weyland April 11 2018 10: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: BAI
                  Even ROC apologists recognize that the Church, to put it mildly, actively opposed the Soviet government.

                  Only here the cause and effect should not be confused! This is Lenin’s gang. am began her reign with mass repressions against the Church! And do not blame Marxism: why Fidel hi I didn’t carry out any repressions against the Church - ICH, in Cuba, it seems, the communist authorities with the Church have a complete understanding?
            3. Conserp
              Conserp April 13 2018 21: 25
              +3
              Quote: BAI
              Deacon Andrei Kuraev: "Over the years of unheard-of persecution, the Russian Church lost only those killed more 200000 clergy. More than half a million clergymen were repressed. "

              It’s strange. Indeed, before the revolution, there was not even a hundred thousand clergymen of all faiths combined in all of tsarist Russia.

              Apparently, the Bolshevik priests cloned, as in Red alert Or imported from parallel worlds through a wormhole - on an industrial scale.

              But the cloning of priests is garbage, because the Bolsheviks had a time machine:
              they shot the Poles in 1940 with German bullets of 1941!
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 12: 01
          +4
          Quote: BAI
          It was the murder of an institute that impeded the development of Russia. Peter I had a conflict with the church (melted bells) - Russia made a sharp jump in development,

          Orthodoxy made Russia-Russia. The most famous and ancient monuments of the Russian people, where he put his soul and love, is Orthodox churches, these are real and tangible witnesses, the whole world admires them!
          Before Peter, the largest country in the world, of course, wasn’t fool lol
          Quote: BAI
          a giant leap in development was made

          Yeah, caught up in consumption and clothing 1913 already .... in the [b] of the 1950s fool
          Quote: BAI
          And now we have an indisputable fact - NO ONE Orthodox state has achieved significant success in science, technology and economics

          belay
          ALL scientists of atomic and space projects learned at the imperial universities and the imperial teachers of Orthodox Russia, many made a career before the thief.
          Quote: BAI
          What Russia now has and what it is proud of (and even just save from destruction) is the legacy of the “godless” USSR.

          Before him, the USSR received a created country with advanced science, universities, factories, and, most importantly, with the main unique and most precious resource - the RUSSIAN PEOPLE — smart, young, fast-growing, full of energy.
          Bolsheviks cut off from created by Orthodoxy the largest country in the world of Russia- its huge parts, which were built up by centuries of work and blood of the Russian people.
          On them, they came up with the so-called. "Ukraine" and "Ukrainians". AT Southern Russian capitals of Russia Odessa and Yekaterinoslav Russophobic black foam is raging, but Ukrainians there were forcibly planted in the USSR.
          The unique human resource was thoughtlessly and mediocrely wasted, torn by endless jerks and rummages, in just 70 years from the fastest growing Russian people brought to the Russian Cross.
          Those. by 1991, the Bolsheviks brought to the handle what they got from Orthodox Russia ...
          1. BAI
            BAI April 10 2018 12: 48
            +13
            The unique human resource was thoughtlessly and mediocrely wasted, torn by endless jerks and rummages, in just 70 years from the fastest growing Russian people brought to the Russian Cross.

            In addition to unfounded allegations, where is at least one evidence?

            Those. by 1991, the Bolsheviks brought to the handle what they got from Orthodox Russia ...

            From Orthodox Russia, the Bolsheviks got an illiterate population, so that even in 1941 a certain percentage of junior commanders were illiterate.
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 13: 21
              +6
              Quote: BAI
              In addition to unfounded allegations, where is at least one evidence?

              Evidence? The villages from which the mass exodus of youth in Soviet times began is not evidence? My parents were born in the village, of the classmates in the village there was Nothing-GO-GO! Everyone fled to the cities.
              91 year - here is a proof to you. Without any world war, the country itself is falling apart, and the Communists, who are at the helm of this country, vigorously tearing the sweetest chunks to themselves, whoever can.
              Quote: BAI
              From Orthodox Russia, the Bolsheviks got an illiterate population, so that even in 1941 a certain percentage of junior commanders were illiterate.

              As of 1917, 90% of draftees in the army were literate. The country has invested enormous resources in the development of rural schools and hospitals. The fact that then the Bolsheviks appropriated this development program later and promoted it as "their victory" does not cancel the actions of imperial Russia in this area.
              1. albert
                albert April 10 2018 17: 25
                +12
                Quote: Trapper7
                As of 1917, 90% of draftees in the army were literate.

                In Tsarist Russia, 80% of the population were illiterate, do not lie.
                Quote: Trapper7
                The villages from which the runaway of youth began

                The beginning of urbanization with the beginning of the first five-year plans. The city needed working hands.
                1. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 17: 47
                  +3
                  Quote: albert
                  In Tsarist Russia, 80% of the population were illiterate, do not lie.

                  I am not lying. In general, I try to avoid this.
                  And I advise you before refuting something, then refute it reasonably.

                  The percentage of illiterate recruits in Russia

                  Years 1896 1900 1905 1913

                  % illiterate 60% 51% 42% 27%

                  As you can see, already in the 1913 year, literacy among conscripts amounted to 73% (by 1917 year - more than 80%).
                  The draft commissions of the Russian army clearly separated literate (who can read and write), illiterate (who can only read and write) and illiterate (who can neither read nor write) [10] At the same time, the illiterate and illiterate were trained in the army.
                  Estimates of the average literacy rate of the population in Russia as a whole by 1914-1915 are quite different: from 35-38% to 1915 [13] [14] to 43% in 1917. Former Minister of Education P.N. Ignatiev in his article cited an estimate in 56 of% literate of the entire population of Russia (for 1916 year). [15]

                  https://echo.msk.ru/blog/fedor/951266-echo/
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 10 2018 14: 10
              +4
              Quote: BAI
              Roma allegations, where is at least one evidence?

              Russian Cross unknown to you ?! belay
              Quote: BAI
              Bolsheviks inherited from Orthodox Russia illiterate population, so that even in 1941 a certain percentage of junior commanders were illiterate.

              You are not lucky with the people, yes. In Germany, it was necessary to practice.
              I got to you, I repeat, the largest country in the world, with the fastest growing people.
              What remains after only 70 years of your SINGLE RULE?
              And here I repeat: Russia, the Russian Cross, and the tens of millions of abandoned Russians in the sovereign states that you created, remained shattered from all sides.
              These are the FACTS. For you, these are achievements, I have another word for this
              1. BAI
                BAI April 10 2018 17: 02
                +9
                You are not lucky with the people, yes. In Germany, you had to practice

                Just do not build a defender of the people. He who distorts and denigrates the history of his people is not his defender, but a traitor. You can engage in such statements in the Western media, there they now have a green light and general applause.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich April 10 2018 20: 34
                  +2
                  Quote: BAI
                  Just do not need to build a defender people.

                  This applies to YOU ​​in the first place: NOBODY authorized you to speak on behalf of the people. Humble, humble must be yes .
                  Quote: BAI
                  One who distorts and denigrates the history of his people is not his protector, and a traitor.

                  You yourself clearly described! good
                  Quote: BAI
                  You can engage in such statements in the Western media, there they now have a green light and general applause.

                  What kind of "with"? belay
                  Nothing to object to on the ESSENCE (Russian Cross, etc.)? No? fool So don't litter trash discussion
            3. Weyland
              Weyland April 11 2018 10: 18
              +1
              Quote: BAI
              even in 1941 a certain percentage of junior commanders

              younger commanders are usually younger and younger in age - i.e. almost all born after Thief! And what, is their king-father too guilty of their illiteracy?
        3. Glory1974
          Glory1974 April 10 2018 22: 52
          +3
          It was the murder of an institute that impeded the development of Russia.

          I agree with you. I quote from "L. A. Andreev. RELIGION AND POWER IN RUSSIA." 2001 On the activities of Catherine 2.
          It is significant that, having planned extensive political and legal changes in the 60 of the 18th century, which should have been based on reason and law, the empress was not only unable to rely on the teachings or authority of the Church, but was also forced to remove the clergy as an estate from elections to the people's representative body - the Commission on the Code. The Bolsheviks by their deprivation of civil rights of the clergy in 1918, only repeated the Catherine experience in the new conditions. The deprivation of the clergy of electoral rights in 1767, with the consent of all other classes, is another indicator of the genuine, and not invented by the Slavophiles, “authority” of the Orthodox Church, which at that time was itself one of the leading owners of “baptized property” in the country.
          The Church (excluding the population of Ukraine) numbered 906 thousand 305 souls of serfs only male322. One Trinity-Sergius Lavra with the monasteries assigned to it possessed 105 thousands of male peasants323. At the same time, the economy was conducted in such a way that it gave low profitability. The numerous riots of the peasants forced the government to organize commissions and intervene in the monastery economy.
        4. Arakius
          Arakius April 18 2018 07: 26
          +1
          And now we have an indisputable fact - None of the Orthodox states have achieved significant success in science, technology and economics.

          That is, for the sake of these successes it is permissible to kill innocent people?
      4. MrK
        MrK April 10 2018 15: 43
        +11
        Quote: Olgovich
        Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich for the raised topic.

        Thank Slavik of course. But one question: was it shot for faith or for anti-Soviet agitation?
        1. kalibr
          April 10 2018 16: 08
          +7
          Well it's written right there. For the distribution of religious literature. And then ... what is this manner of killing women for words. Well isolate her ... But to kill women ... it's mean and low.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 20: 39
          +3
          Quote: mrark
          But one question: was it shot for faith or for anti-Soviet agitation?

          For the faith that the Idites considered anti-Soviet agitation.
          What fearful Bolsheviks were: mortally afraid .... of a simple WORD! fool
        3. Arakius
          Arakius April 18 2018 07: 33
          +1
          Quote: mrark
          Thank Slavik of course. But one question: was it shot for faith or for anti-Soviet agitation?

          And what kind of "anti-Soviet agitation" is it right to shoot?
    3. Weyland
      Weyland April 10 2018 22: 34
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      How many of them were burned in tsarist Russia at one time ..

      only the Church did not do it, but secular power: they insisted on insulting the Majesty (the Old Believers refused to recognize the Tsar as Orthodox) .. The authorities did not stand on ceremony with the official Church: remember the fate of Patriarch Nikon!
  2. apro
    apro April 10 2018 05: 39
    +14
    What was the Russian Orthodox Church in the Russian empire? A government structure in the service of the tsar. Led by the general. What were its tasks? Maintaining a regime of autocracy. Were the ministers satisfied with the February and October revolutions? When they were removed from the state feeding trough? I think not Were they very struggling with the new state structures? Yes, and in the ranks of the rebels and band-forces. Were these subjects subjected to repression? Necessarily. According to the laws of wartime.
    1. K.A.S.
      K.A.S. April 10 2018 06: 13
      +8
      So x needed to be killed? What are you all in a bunch and dissatisfied with the revolution and gangs of formation
      I look forward to comments in the style of it were perigots on the ground or jokes "a million shot personally by Stalin"
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 06: 41
        +13
        What do you want? It’s unpleasant to read about the “holy USSR”, where the streets were paved with non-depreciating rubles. What are the laws of wartime in the 30s, what are the "rebellious nuns"? Where from? But no! It’s necessary to drag everything in, put your head in the sand and go deeper ...
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 10 2018 07: 44
      +8
      Quote: apro
      What was the Russian Orthodox Church in the Russian empire? A government structure in the service of the tsar. Led by the general. What were its tasks? Maintaining a regime of autocracy. Were the church attendants satisfied with the February and October revolutions?

      About February and the Russian Orthodox Church. The Russian Orthodox Church supported the February revolution. Autocracy --- ROC condemned! ROC hierarchs welcomed the interim government, about which our contemporary Mikhail Anatolyevich Babkin, a Russian historian, doctor of historical sciences, professor, author of more than 120 scientific papers, conducted a study (Wikipedia)
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 10 2018 09: 16
      +4
      Quote: apro
      Were these subjects subject to repression? necessarily. according to the laws of wartime.

      These CITIZENS of the country were deprived of civil rights, property and life in PEACE
      1. apro
        apro April 10 2018 09: 40
        +12
        And who gave the USSR peacetime before the war?
        According to your words, no credit has been hurt: are calls for the overthrow of the existing government a childish prank
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 10 2018 10: 06
          +5
          Greetings, prayer wishes for success and prosperity were expressed to the interim government in telegrams on March 3-6 ....... from the leaders of more than a dozen dioceses: Yenisei, Vyatka, Polotsk, Saratov, Mogilev, Yekaterinoslav, and Smolensk, Simbirsk, Taurida, Kharkov, Kaluga.
          According to the article by M. Babkin.
        2. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 11: 00
          +5
          Quote: apro
          And who gave the USSR peacetime before the war?
          According to your words, no credit has been hurt: are calls for the overthrow of the existing government a childish prank

          put the plumber in jail. cellmates ask - for what? and he replies, "Yes, I came to the city committee to check the heating, I look - everything is rusty everywhere and I say - do you have to change the whole system here ..."
          calls ... from nuns ... yeah ....
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic April 10 2018 12: 09
            +2
            calls ... from nuns ... yeah ....

            What surprises you?
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 10 2018 14: 40
            +3
            Quote: Trapper7
            calls ... from nuns ... yeah ....

            Here is a piece from the Smolensk Book of Memory (in a row):
            Nikolaev Ignat Nikolaevich, 1875 R. A native of Vyazem. d.Sokolovo. Russian; b / p. pensioner. Place of residence: Vyazem. d.Sokolovo. Arrested on 07.09.37/29.10.37/58. Convicted 10,11/11.11.37/XNUMX Troika UNKVD Zap. reg. Articles of accusation: XNUMX-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Boris Zakharovich, 1910 R. A native of the Spiritual. d.Kostyukovo. to, brigadier. Place of residence: Dukhovschin. d.Kostyukovo. Arrested on 15.05.42. Sentenced 15.07.42 CCA NKVD of the USSR. Shot on September 15.09.42, XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Anton Pavlovich, 1888 R. A native of Roslavl. village of Prygorye. Russian; b / p. S.Grigoryevo Roslavl., teacher. Arrested on 11.10.37/21.11.37/58. Convicted 10,11/07.12.37/XNUMX Troika UNKVD Zap. reg. Articles of accusation: XNUMX-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Fedor Vasilyevich, 1899 R. A native of Smolensk. Russian; b / p. did not work. Place of residence: Smolensk. Arrested on 29.04.37. Sentenced 21.06.37/19,58/8,10 Troika UNKVD Smol. reg. Articles of accusation: 29.10.37-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Prokofy Borisovich, 1885 R. A native of Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Russian; b / p. to. Place of residence: Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Arrested on 21.12.37/13.02.38/58. Convicted 10/27.02.38/XNUMX Troika UNKVD Smol. reg. Articles of accusation: XNUMX-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Efim Kuzmich, 1888 R. A native of Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Russian; b / p. to-z. Place of residence: Roslavl. d.Lyubestovo. Arrested on 11.10.37/21.11.37/58. Convicted 10,11/07.12.37/XNUMX Troika UNKVD Zap. reg. Articles of accusation: XNUMX-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX.

            Nikolaev Andrey Afanasevich, 1877 R. A native of Yartsev.ro. d.Trunovo. Russian; b / p. Yartsev. Zagotzerno office, a carpenter. Place of residence: Yartsev.ro. d.Trunovo. Arrested on 19.10.37/03.11.37/58. Convicted 10,11 Three of the UNKVD Smol. reg. Articles of accusation: 11.11.37-XNUMX. Shot on XNUMX. Etc.

            A pensioner, a carpenter, a teacher, collective farmers are so vicious "enemies" that they already shot ....
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic April 10 2018 15: 45
              +11
              Hello, Andrey.
              Allow me to voice my observation regarding you?
              There is always an excessive strain in your messages, and you select the “arguments” so that the “output” voiced after the “argument” affects emotions, not logic.
              For example, you cited an excerpt from the "source" with a list of people killed. And in conclusion, they emphasized the profession of these people.
              My question is, please tell me, how can a profession serve as an excuse or conviction?
              If so, how?
              If it can’t, then my next question is this way of writing messages is your conscious method for manipulating?

              With the same success, I could write:
              Marilyn Plantz, housewife, sentenced to death ...
              Christina Riggs, a nurse, sentenced to death ...
              By analogy with your message, we must begin to lament the inhumanity of the American justice system ..? Ai-ay-ay, a nurse ... Ai-ay-ay, a housewife ...
              1. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ April 10 2018 16: 18
                +3
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Tell me, please, how can a profession serve as an excuse or conviction?

                Yes, in principle, no matter how. I, as I understand it, professions are given to understand that everyone was sentenced, simply because someone said something wrong or "looked askance", and not because he planned to "re-open" the plant or dam, or God forbid, encroach on the holy - To poison Stalin!
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic April 10 2018 16: 37
                  +5
                  I, as I understand it, professions are given to understand that everyone was sentenced, simply because someone said something wrong or "looked askance"

                  Yeah ... I understand your point.
                  That is, it goes in my example
                  Marilyn Plantz, housewife, sentenced to death ...
                  Christina Riggs, a nurse, sentenced to death ...

                  These two women are also sentenced to death because
                  said wrong or "looked askance"
                  ?
                  There is probably something because of which they earned their lethal injections. And this something can already be used for interpretation - guilty, not guilty, deserved, not deserved?
                  I just want to convey the idea that messages like the one under discussion cannot be proof or proof of anything, but serve only as an attempt to "defeat an opponent in a dispute and amuse your ego." Well, or by conscious manipulation. Decide for yourself.
                  1. EwgenyZ
                    EwgenyZ April 10 2018 19: 20
                    +3
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Marilyn Plantz, Christina Riggs

                    These two women are also sentenced to death because
                    said wrong or "looked askance"
                    ?
                    Do not distort. Since you cite the example of these two women, you cannot know why they were sentenced to death. A simple workaholic "put on the wall" or sent to the "sunny" Magadan just for:
                    said wrong or "looked askance"
                    . And ordinary teachers, carpenters, senior citizens, etc. with a light hand the “triples” became “enemies of the people”, spies of three (four, five, etc.) intelligence services. Feel the difference?
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic April 11 2018 09: 02
                      +2
                      I do not distort, Eugene. I'm just trying to get the idea that
                      messages like the one being discussed cannot be proof or proof of anything, but serve only as an attempt to “defeat an opponent in a dispute and amuse one’s ego”. Well, or by conscious manipulation.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich April 10 2018 20: 58
                +1
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                For example, you cited an excerpt from the "source" with a list of people killed. And in conclusion, they emphasized the profession of these people.
                My question is, please tell me, how can a profession serve as an excuse or conviction?

                I emphasized that these people, like MILLIONS of others, were SIMPLE, USUAL, mostly rural, often illiterate people and attributing anti-state activities to them and, often, shooting for it was bullshit and crime.
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                my next question is this way writing messages is your conscious method for manipulation?

                Which one? Express in Russian Вashu (spelled with a capital letter, remember) "thought"
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                With the same success I could write:
                Marilyn Plantz, housewife, sentenced to death ...
                Christina Riggs, a nurse, sentenced to death ...
                с SO success you can only compare carrots and corn yes Like, too, are similar ...
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                By analogy with your message, we must begin to lament the inhumanity of the American justice system ..? Ai-ay-ay, a nurse ... Ai-ay-ay, a housewife ...

                Yes, MILLIONS have been convicted of the murder of their young children, and this has been PROVEN in months-long JUDICIAL trials, as is the case with the amero-nurse. yes lol
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic April 11 2018 10: 11
                  +2
                  Hello, Andrey.
                  Well, why are you so ugly ..? I'm about it
                  Express your Russian (it’s written with a capital letter, remember) "thought"

                  Just because it may turn out that my idea was incomprehensible only to you, and other readers understood it? It is still written in Russian. Is not it so? I had a very peaceful tone in relation to you in my message, and you obviously tried (in your own way) to hurt me. What for? Let's respect each other. Even if I make a mistake in the text (not a typo) - well, so what is there? Only, excuse me, but I will continue to write to you - you. And with a small letter. And there is no mistake. With a capital letter, this pronoun is written: in a personal letter, in an official document, in the application form. Moreover, the expression "personal letter" is an alternative expression for the epistolary genre (personal not because it is addressed to a particular person, but because it has a personal (not public) character). So let's agree to leave the topic of spelling in our discussions (I do not want to stoop to indicate that
                  crime

                  It is written with one "s". )
                  Now back to the more significant things.
                  Which one?

                  I will gladly repeat my "thought" -
                  do you select “arguments” so that the “conclusion” voiced after the “argument” affects emotions, not logic?

                  Andrew, and yet, you can get the answer to the question:
                  Can a profession justify or condemn a sentence?

                  It's just - "yes, serves as an excuse" or "no, does not serve as an excuse." It does not require a sheet of text. Sheets are usually written when you need to veil or hide the answer. Answer my question, if not difficult.

                  Yes, MILLIONS have been convicted of the murder of their young children, and this has been PROVEN in months-long JUDICIAL trials, as is the case with the amero-nurse.

                  You see how good it is. You saw these names in my message. Found material on the Internet (even Russian-speaking enough). And now you have an idea of ​​the crime committed by these women. So you can give your assessment (justify, condemn). What kind of assessment is actually not even important, what matters is that you have what to base it on.
                  The same way you submitted the material (this very list), in no way allows you to draw conclusions. Maybe from this list 100% of undeserved sentences, maybe 80%, maybe 50%, maybe 10%, maybe 1% ..?
                  On the basis of what should I, as an outsider, draw conclusions? Based
                  Senior citizen, carpenter, teacher, collective farmers
                  ?
                  Guided by logic - I can not. And emotions are not the best adviser in such matters as revolutions and civil wars.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich April 11 2018 11: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Just because may be, that my idea was incomprehensible only to you, but other readers understood it?

                    Or maybe no. Maybe? Can! yes
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    It is still written in Russian. Is not it so?

                    No.
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Let's respect each other. Even if I make a mistake in the text (not a typo) - well, what’s wrong with that? Only, excuse me, but I will continue to write to you - you. And with a small letter. And there is no mistake. With a capital letter, this pronoun is written: in a personal letter, in an official document, in the application form

                    Do you talk about politeness? A bit of Russian for you:
                    The pronouns You and Your are written in capital (capital) letters as a form polite appeals to one person.
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    I will gladly repeat my "thought" -
                    do you select “arguments” so that the “conclusion” voiced after the “argument” affects emotions, not logic?

                    What are the "arguments" in the ... quoted passage from the book of Memory belay ?
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Andrew, and yet, you can get the answer to the question:
                    Can a profession justify or condemn a sentence? It's just - "yes, serves as an excuse" or "no, does not serve as an excuse." It does not require a sheet of text. Sheets are usually written when you need to veil or hide the answer. Answer my question, if not difficult.

                    The mention of the profession was in the following context, if you did not understand:
                    I, these people, like MILLIONS of others, were SIMPLE, USUAL, mostly village, often illiterate people and ascribing anti-state activities to them and, often, shooting for it was bullshit and crime.
                    This is NOT an excuse and NOT a condemnation, but a CONCLUSION about the impossibility of the acts attributed to them. Again incomprehensible?
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    You see how good it is. You saw these names in my message. Found material on the Internet (even Russian-speaking enough). And now you have an idea of ​​the crime committed by these women. So you can give your assessment (justify, to condemn) What kind of assessment is actually not even important, what matters is that you have what to base it on.

                    Court condemned, not me. And his decision is not challenged. Can trust.
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    about how you submitted the material (this very list), in no way allows you to draw conclusions. Maybe from this list 100% of undeserved sentences, maybe 80%, maybe 50%, maybe 10%, maybe 1% ..?

                    These people are rehabilitated by the court. And the "Troika" and their "decisions" are recognized as criminal by the Armed Forces of the USSR and the RSFSR, the Russian Federation.
                    I trust them, it's their job. Your assessment of rehabilitation is the least that interests me, which is logical, agree.
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Based
                    Senior citizen, carpenter, teacher, collective farmers
                    ?
                    Guided by logic - I can not. And emotions are not the best adviser in such matters as revolutions and civil wars.

                    I recommend to be guided by the Laws of the Russian Federation. Common sense tells you the same, but you, alas, ignore it. hi
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic April 11 2018 13: 28
                      +2
                      Or maybe no. Maybe? Can! yes

                      I can not disagree with you. As a matter of fact, I did not write the opposite (and the word "can" used by me confirms this). But in general, at least 10 people understood me, sharing my opinion that they confirmed the message with their assessment.
                      It is still written in Russian. Is not it so?

                      No.

                      It will not be difficult for you to write in what language I am writing you messages if it is not Russian. I didn’t think, I wondered, but it turns out I am a polyglot, and I myself did not suspect about it))
                      Do you talk about politeness?

                      Why can't I talk about politeness?
                      A bit of Russian for you

                      Andrey, I asked you not to touch on the topic of spelling. As I understand it, you have decided that 1) are more competent in this 2) it is very essential for mutual understanding. I disagree with either paragraph 1 or paragraph 2.
                      The pronouns You and Your are written with a capital (capital) letter as a form of polite appeal to one person

                      With a capital letter, this pronoun is written: in a personal letter, in an official document, in the application form

                      It will not be difficult for you to answer - our correspondence with you is Personal letter, official document, questionnaire?
                      Next
                      An argument is a statement (premise) or a group of statements (assumptions) brought in support (proof) of another statement (conclusion). Do you agree? Simpler - an argument is something that proves something. You cite an excerpt from the book as evidence of the illegality of the actions committed by the Bolshevik regime. So the passage is an argument. What surprised you so much that even a smiley's face twitches?
                      PS I don’t touch upon the moment that the 58th article in the year -24 and in the year -37 are completely different articles. And as for the compilers and editors of the book from which your passage appears questions, I will also keep silent. After all, paper suffers.
                      This is NOT an excuse and NOT a condemnation, but a CONCLUSION about the impossibility of the acts attributed to them.

                      That is, you conclude that since a person is simple
                      SIMPLE, USUAL, mainly village, often illiterate people
                      then he cannot lead
                      anti-state activities
                      ?
                      You may be asked to answer you - what are such outstanding qualities that one must possess in order to carry out this very activity? To be Einstein? Or have four hands? What is the impossibility then? This is really incomprehensible to me.
                      These people are rehabilitated by the court. And the "Troika" and their "decisions" are recognized as criminal by the Armed Forces of the USSR and the RSFSR, the Russian Federation.

                      Well, you're an adult, Andrei, you understand. Today some trends, tomorrow others, the third day after tomorrow. I have nothing against rehabilitation, because in fact there are victims without fault, and at least some kind of reassurance can be given to relatives. But the rehabilitation that was - a puppet theater. Why? Because it is a group, without a review of cases. Just sentences for a certain time period of certain instances recognized as unlawful. Without actualization. And to update because it is impossible - the statute of limitations is long gone.
                      I recommend to be guided by the laws of the Russian Federation

                      In a conversation with you, I am guided by Article 29 of the Constitution.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 12 2018 11: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Andrey, I asked you not to touch on the topic of spelling. As I understand it, you have decided that 1) are more competent in this 2) it is very essential for mutual understanding. I disagree with either paragraph 1 or paragraph 2.

                        Your requests do not interest me ..
                        You do not argue with me, but with RUSSIAN grammar. What is unclear?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        about in general, at least 10 people understood me, sharing my opinion that they confirmed the message with their assessment.

                        Those who do not understand, can not put you a minus.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        It will not be difficult for you to answer - is our correspondence a personal letter, an official document, a questionnaire?

                        Once again, if you do not understand:
                        The pronouns You and Your are written with a capital (capital) letter as a form of polite appeal to one person
                        Further: One can propose such a mnemonic rule: if you can insert a singular prefix before a pronoun, then writing a pronoun with a capital letter is appropriate: dear colleague, we offer you ... But: dear colleagues, we offer you ...
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You cite an excerpt from the book as evidence of the illegality of the actions committed by the Bolshevik regime.

                        Not proof, but an example of NONSENSE.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And as for the compilers and editors of the book from which your passage appears questions, I will also keep silent. After all, paper suffers.

                        This applies to you yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You may be asked to answer you - what are such outstanding qualities that one must possess in order to carry out this very activity? To be Einstein? Or have four hands? What is the impossibility then? This is really incomprehensible to me.

                        No need. One must have a motive, desire and opportunity.
                        But in those wild times, everyone had one desire - to survive purely physically.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Well, you're an adult, Andrei, you understand. Today some trends, tomorrow others, the third day after tomorrow. I have nothing against rehabilitation, because in fact there are victims without fault, and at least some kind of reassurance can be given to relatives. But the rehabilitation that was - a puppet theater. Why? Because she is a group, without a review of cases

                        Puppet theater is a farce of millions of "sentences."
                        To say more about principle of this mockery (troika, collegiums, etc.) of justice was declared unconstitutional and CRIMINAL at the Legislative level (USSR Supreme Council) and its decisions were canceled.
                        What is unclear?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        In a conversation with you, I am guided by Article 29 of the Constitution.

                        And in relation to the topic should be guided by the decisions of the Supreme Council of the USSR, the RSFSR and the Russian Federation.
                        Your rejection of them is the least that interests you.
                    2. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic April 12 2018 14: 35
                      +1
                      Hello Andrei.
                      I don’t know the reason why I can’t answer your last comment, maybe some kind of failure ... Therefore, can I continue the correspondence with you here?
                      Why didn’t you want to answer my question?
                      - It is still written in Russian. Is not it so?
                      - No.
                      - It will not be difficult for you to write in what language I am writing you messages if it is not Russian?

                      Maybe because oh how you do not want to, because you have to admit your allegiance and bias towards the person you are talking to? )))
                      Those who do not understand, can not put you a minus.

                      1) You understand that this is true for your messages to the same extent as for mine))
                      2) This does not refute in any way that there are people who understand the meaning of my messages, there was a conversation about it.
                      Not proof, but an example of NONSENSE.

                      Example - male R., a special case cited in the explanation, in evidence of nn
                      Potatoes, potatoes ...
                      As you can see, my message to which you replied with such a phrase from the point of view of logic still carries the marker “true” and not “false”))
                      No need. One must have a motive, desire and opportunity.

                      Yeah, so any person is capable of anti-state activity ?! Since no special qualities are needed ?!
                      That is, a teacher, or a pensioner, or a carpenter, could also do it? It turns out he could. That is, the accusation of such activities of a teacher, a pensioner, a carpenter can take place? It turns out maybe. With the same degree of probability as it cannot. We do not have information on the basis of which one or another conclusion can be drawn. But you, not owning such information, claim that these people did not commit this, which means the sentences are unfair. For example, I always avoid peremptory statements regarding history.
                      But in those wild times, everyone had one desire - to survive purely physically.

                      Again peremptory statement.
                      1) The desire to survive - it is, as it were, at all times, even now. Nature is like that. So again, just "push on the nerve"
                      2) And besides - the desire to fuck at someone’s expense, or simply to dishonor, or stubbornness, implicated in the inability to see not only their interests, there are so many passions in people that anyone can serve as a trigger for this very anti-state activity.
                      So, you see, it’s very self-confident for everyone to sign.
                      And in relation to the topic should be guided by the decisions of the Supreme Council of the USSR, the RSFSR and the Russian Federation.

                      Stupidity is utter.
                      Show me where the USSR Armed Forces, the RSFSR and the Russian Federation prohibit mine
                      the individual’s right to freely form their beliefs and opinions, to adhere to them, the right to freely refuse them, as well as the right to freely express their opinions and beliefs, the right to communicate verbally and in writing, including the right to refrain from communicating, the right to freely choose a language communication.
                      Our topic is what we are talking about - this is my criticism of your message in terms of speculating with facts to obtain a certain emotional color to convince the audience, bypassing logic and common sense.
                      And as soon as any of the instances indicated by you takes care of this issue and decides that a certain Timur should consider everything that a certain Andrey writes as true and infallible, then you can reproach me that I am not guided by something there.
                      But only after that, but for now article 29 of the Constitution.

                      And the funny thing is, just a cherry on the cake:
                      You do not argue with me, but with RUSSIAN grammar.

                      So there is such a calico that I argue with you just because you violate the spelling rules. By the way, even the use of the word grammar is inappropriate. And there, teach others ... tongue
                      I beg you very much - send me the source from where you got the rule you are referring to. A book, a link to a web page ... I don’t know what you used. It really seems to me that you decided to deliberately omit some of the nuances in order not to acknowledge my innocence. Well, or use the textbook "Russian. 5th grade." Do not refuse my request, please.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 13 2018 03: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Maybe because oh how you do not want to, because you have to admit your allegiance and bias towards the person you are talking to? )))

                        So-Nothing to admit, what's wrong with you ?.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        An example is a man’s R., a special case cited in explanation, in evidence of something.
                        Potatoes, potatoes ...

                        belay fool
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        It is still written in Russian. Is not it so?
                        - No.
                        - You will not be difficult to write nwhat language Am I writing you messages if this is not Russian?

                        Not difficult, in non-Russian
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Yeah, so any person is capable of anti-state activity ?! Since no special qualities are needed ?!
                        That is, a teacher, or a pensioner, or a carpenter, could also do it? It turns out he could. That is, the accusation of such activities of a teacher, a pensioner, a carpenter can take place? It turns out maybe. With the same degree of probability as it cannot. We do not have information on the basis of which one or another conclusion can be drawn.

                        Any teacher you meet, or a senior citizen, or a carpenter, can be gay (trasvestite, alcoholic, etc.)? Can. That is, the charge of such activities lol teacher, senior citizen, carpenter can take place? It turns out maybe. With the same degree of probability as it cannot. We do not have information on the basis of which one or another conclusion can be drawn. yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But you, not owning such information, claim that these people did not commit this, which means the sentences are unfair.

                        What nonsense is that? I OWN the information, like all educated people, that they are innocent and acquitted.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        1) The desire to survive - it is, as it were, at all times, even now. Nature is like that. So again, just "push on the nerve"

                        Make chatter about wanting to survive yes
                        People always want live, but they want to survive when it’s impossible to live normally (as, for example, in the 30s).
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        2) And besides - the desire to fuck at someone’s expense, or simply to dishonor, or stubbornness, implicated in the inability to see not only their interests in people so many passions that the trigger for this very anti-state activity, can serve any.

                        Yeah, for example, non-traditional orientation lol
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        So, you see, it’s very self-confident for all sign.

                        Correctly. And who signed it? belay
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Stupidity is utter

                        Stupidity - Guided by Laws? fool What's wrong with you? AND than Are you guided in everyday life, aren't they? Or do you rape, rob, etc.?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Show me where the USSR Armed Forces, the RSFSR and the Russian Federation prohibit mine

                        Where did you see the word "ban"? There is a word “be guided”, i.e. Act according to smth., According to smth.,those. with the laws.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Our topic is what we are talking about - this is my criticism of your message in terms of speculating with facts to obtain a certain emotional color to convince the audience, bypassing logic and common sense.

                        Your sophistry is not worth a penny (gay anti-state)
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And as soon as any of the instances indicated by you takes care of this issue and decides that a certain Timur should consider everything that a certain Andrey writes as true and infallible, then you can reproach me that I am not guided by something there.

                        I talked about the laws of the USSR and the Russian Federation, which you must observe.
                        Legality - (rule of law) principle unconditional execution of laws, legal acts and court decisions by all state bodies, officials and citizens
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        So there is such a calico that I argue with you just because you violate the spelling rules

                        You violate
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        . It really seems to me that you decided to deliberately omit some of the nuances in order not to acknowledge my innocence.

                        Google hi
              3. Weyland
                Weyland April 11 2018 10: 22
                +2
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Tell me, please, how can a profession serve as an excuse or conviction?

                Do not distort! In addition to the profession, Andrei indicated and Articlesby which they were judged - and this not at all articles on which we have in those same years fair would have shot Marilyn Planz and Christina Riggs!
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic April 11 2018 10: 29
                  +2
                  Do not distort!

                  Not at all.
                  Senior citizen, carpenter, teacher, collective farmers are so malicious "enemies"

                  The emphasis Andrei makes is not on the content of the accusation, but on the emotional message of the "peacefulness" of the professions of these people. In common people this is called - "push on the nerve." What for? Likely to persuade the audience to their point of view bypassing the critical consideration of the issue.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich April 28 2018 06: 32
                    0
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    The emphasis Andrei makes is not on the content of the accusation, but on the emotional message of the "peacefulness" of the professions of these people

                    What are the emotions evoked by you as a carpenter? hi
            2. Looking for
              Looking for April 12 2018 22: 46
              -1
              I would have shot you now, without looking at who you work for, because you are ENEMIES.
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 14: 27
          +3
          Quote: apro
          And who gave it to the USSR before the war Peaceful time?

          Before the war, always a peaceful time.
          Quote: apro
          what about your words have not been affected? Are calls for the overthrow of the existing government are childish pranks?

          belayWHAT are the nuns calling to WHO ?! People were afraid to say the word, not to call!
          This is not RI, where bald foreign tourists called not only to overthrow the government, but also to pour acid on its representatives, shoot and kill, while remaining alive and rolling around the world
          1. MrK
            MrK April 10 2018 16: 03
            +9
            Quote: Olgovich
            WHAT are the nuns calling to WHO ?! People were afraid to say the word, not to call!

            And the regiments of Jesus and the regiments of the Holy Virgin in the Kolchak army, almost 10 000 priests with rifles that cut their bellies and hung on their own intestines. And they did not only against the Bolsheviks, but mainly against ordinary peasants, who, according to the priests, betrayed the faith. What kind of people did they have to kiss in the ass?
            1. kalibr
              April 10 2018 16: 40
              +6
              Shelves in the year 37 were these?
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 April 10 2018 17: 28
                +6
                .almost 10000 priests with rifles ....., the guys began to lose their nerves, WITH MAUSERS!
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri April 10 2018 18: 01
                  +3
                  Quote: bober1982
                  .... almost 10000 priests with rifles .....,

                  “With the word of God and the machine gun, much more can be achieved than with just the word of God.” (c) (almost). laughing I apologize could not resist. repeat
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 April 10 2018 18: 12
                    +4
                    You chuckle, about the millions of tortured, and about the schizophrenic 10000 priests with machine guns you are carrying a blizzard (Peskov, it’s fashionable to say that now, in the sense of slang)
                    "Elusive Avengers" seen enough?
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri April 10 2018 18: 16
                      0
                      Quote: bober1982
                      You laugh, about the millions of tortured, but about the schizophrenic 10000 priests with machine guns ....
                      .
                      I, too, "hochmlyu." laughing
                      1. bober1982
                        bober1982 April 10 2018 18: 20
                        +4
                        You don’t know what you’re saying (through gritted teeth), I really want to send ...
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 10 2018 21: 06
              +1
              Quote: mrark
              And the regiments of Jesus and the regiments of the Holy Virgin in Kolchakovo army
              It's about PEACE post-war time. Read the article.
              Quote: mrark
              which bellies cut into own guts hung

              Like this?! And how did they manage, without OWN guts? lol laughing
              Quote: mrark
              What kind of people did they have to kiss in the ass?

              Do not speak for the people - he never authorized you, like the Bolsheviks.
            3. Weyland
              Weyland April 11 2018 10: 25
              +1
              Quote: mrark
              almost 10 priests with rifles that cut their bellies and hung on their own intestines

              proofs, of course, will be from Soviet newspapers? laughing stop Literate a person knows that an Orthodox priest who has committed murder even in self-defense or through negligence (for example, an accident) for life removed from service!
        4. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 10 2018 21: 09
          +2
          Quote: apro
          And who gave the USSR peacetime before the war ??

          And really ---- who? NOBODY. !!!! First ----- help to China, then ---- Spain, then ---- Finnish ..... Almost all of the pre-war decade was not peaceful ..... But maybe I have not remembered ....
    4. Weyland
      Weyland April 11 2018 09: 32
      0
      Quote: apro
      Were the ministers satisfied with the February and October revolutions? When they were removed from the state feeder?

      Most were pretty. The feeder was by no means so plentiful in comparison with the voluntary offerings of the parishioners (now there is no state feeder - and what, is the Church in poverty? lol ), but the duties associated with the state “guardianship” are extremely burdensome (introduced by Peter am the obligation to “knock over” is generally chaos!)
  3. Hantengri
    Hantengri April 10 2018 07: 28
    +15
    “Penza Martyrology of the Victims of the Faith of Christ” - “The Righteous By Faith Will Live”

    Already on the basis of the name, scientific impartiality cannot be expected from this work. Sorry.
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri April 10 2018 08: 12
      +13
      Therefore, those who were dispossessed and exiled during the years of collectivization could well be attributed to the number of victims for faith.

      Those. These lovely citizens:
      ... a real fist loves neither land, nor economy, nor labor, this one loves only money ... Everything at the fist does not rest on the farm, not on labor, but on the capital for which he trades, which gives out loans at interest. His idol is money, about the increase of which he only thinks. He inherited the capital, it was obtained by unknown means, but by some unclean means.
      A. N. Engelhardt

      also suffered solely for the faith of Christ? Does the owl endure, or is it already FSE?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid April 10 2018 08: 35
        +10
        The owl is quietly crying aside !!!!!!
        And the dispossessed people can be counted as those who suffered for the faith, and even some others, so they get postscripts and invented millions !!!!!
      2. RUSS
        RUSS April 10 2018 08: 54
        +1
        Quote: HanTengri
        Therefore, those who were dispossessed and exiled during the years of collectivization could well be attributed to the number of victims for faith.

        Those. These lovely citizens:
        ... a real fist loves neither land, nor economy, nor labor, this one loves only money ... Everything at the fist does not rest on the farm, not on labor, but on the capital for which he trades, which gives out loans at interest. His idol is money, about the increase of which he only thinks. He inherited the capital, it was obtained by unknown means, but by some unclean means.
        A. N. Engelhardt

        also suffered solely for the faith of Christ? Does the owl endure, or is it already FSE?

        You have fooled the "kulaks" with your bays, and what the hell .... this Engelhardt?
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri April 10 2018 09: 10
          +11
          Quote: RUSS
          and what the x .... this Engelhardt?

          Hope that for x ... this Dahl do you know? lol
          The miser, the hunks, the Jews, the flint, the strong; | reseller, reseller, maclak, prasol, vaulting, special. in the grain trade, in bazaars and marinas, he is non-cash, lives by deception, miscalculation, measurement; lighthouse eagle. eagle, tarkhan tamb. Varangian Mosk. a small-market bargainer, traveling through villages, buying up canvas, yarn, linen, hemp, merlushka, bristles, oil, etc. prasol, ashes, money ladies, gurtovshchik, a buyer and cattle raiser; peddler, peddler, scoop, see the offer. || Fist or cheat, fist, prasol. Flour swings, it swings. || Kulaks, kulachnost cf. occupation, hunting for a fist, embassy, ​​overbought, young lady.
          Dictionary of Dal
      3. K.A.S.
        K.A.S. April 10 2018 09: 17
        +4
        What does the fists have to do with it? An article about something else! But if you answer then the fist is primarily a worker, and not what is written in the agitation!
        Many farmer businessmen simply do not have such a thing as a day off! are they fists?
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic April 10 2018 12: 13
          +7
          Konstantin, to you above Igor has given the characteristic of the person - "fist".
          Why try to make a substitution of concepts?
          Many farmer businessmen simply do not have such a thing as a day off! are they fists?

          But if you answer then the fist is first and foremost a hard worker

          As if not "before", but "not rarely."
          1. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ April 10 2018 16: 28
            +3
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Konstantin, to you above Igor has given the characteristic of the person - "fist".
            Why try to make a substitution of concepts?

            The substitution of concepts occurred under the Bolsheviks, when all the less successful peasants were written in “fists”, and those who did not want to give up the last, left for sowing and for the family, for the sake of mythical slogans. And yes, the “world-eaters” were always in the countryside and in the city, and under the kings and under the general secretaries, and they do not mind.
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri April 10 2018 17: 38
              +5
              Quote: EwgenyZ
              when all the less successful peasants were recorded in “fists”, and those who did not want to give up the last, left for the sowing and for the family, for the sake of mythical slogans.

              Who recorded?
              1. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ April 10 2018 19: 23
                +2
                Quote: HanTengri
                Who recorded?

                Those who came to dispossess are Bolsheviks.
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri April 10 2018 20: 39
                  +6
                  Quote: EwgenyZ
                  Those who came to dispossess are Bolsheviks.

                  Phew ... Easy straight! I, a sinful thing, thought that aliens! laughing
                  I will put the question differently: Who decided whether it was a fist or not? Evict, or let him live? Moscow, or what thread is the local village council?
                  And yes
                  Quote: EwgenyZ
                  and those who did not want to give the last, left for the sowing and for the family, for the sake of mythical slogans.

                  please tell us who it is, and, most importantly, why in 1925-37. !!! took from the peasants "last, leftНleft for sowing and for family ... "?
                  1. EwgenyZ
                    EwgenyZ April 11 2018 07: 30
                    0
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Phew ... Easy straight! I, a sinful thing, thought that aliens!

                    Well, I'm glad that you "finally" got it!

                    Quote: HanTengri
                    I will put the question differently: Who decided whether it was a fist or not? Evict, or let him live? Moscow, or what thread is the local village council?

                    Get ready, you will feel better again - Comrade. Stalin. Because "local village council" resolved the issue
                    is it a fist or not? Evict, or let him live?
                    based "Resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization." January 30, 1930"
                    Hopefully relieved again.

                    Quote: HanTengri
                    please tell us who it is, and, most importantly, why in 1925-37. !!! took from the peasants "last, leftНleft for sowing and for family ... "?

                    From the same decree: "2. Confiscate from the kulaks of these regions means of production, livestock, farm and residential buildings, processing enterprises, feed and seed stocks."
                    Here you finally have to fly away!
                    If not relieved, ask more questions, I will tell you with pleasure.
                    Oh yes! Here is a reference to the decision: http://istmat.info/node/30863
                    By the way, there is also an order for whom and how to squeeze “from the Light”. The Bolsheviks knew in advance how many people needed to be punished for a "Bright future".
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri April 11 2018 23: 12
                      +2
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      Get ready, you will feel better again - Comrade. Stalin. Because "local village council" resolved the issue
                      is it a fist or not? Evict, or let him live?
                      based on "Resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks" On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization. January 30, 1930 "

                      Those. Do you agree that who is the kulak, who is not, was decided by the local community, which knew exactly who's who? => situation
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      when all the less successful peasants were recorded in “fists”

                      It was the exception rather than the rule. And they could write a cultivator, or middle peasant into fists only in 2 cases: 1) The people were so rare m @ duck and they lifted up the villagers so much that ... 2) The "high" authorities from the district center got stuck and let's curry favor ... Agree ?

                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      From the same decree: "2. Confiscate the means of production, livestock, farm and residential buildings, processing plants, feed and seed stocks from the kulaks of these regions."

                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      when all the less successful peasants were recorded in “fists”, and those who did not want to give the last left for the sowing and for the family, for the sake of mythical slogans.

                      I repeat once again: Who on what basis and why in 1925-37. among ordinary peasants "took the last"?
                      1. EwgenyZ
                        EwgenyZ April 13 2018 01: 29
                        0
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Those. Do you agree that who is the kulak, who is not, was decided by the local community, which knew exactly who's who? => situation

                        No, I do not agree. Often, local village councils were led by "Varangians" who were appointed from outside, because, often, peasants were an "unconscious element" and flatly refused to give up supplies for the family and sowing. Therefore, they were "instructed on the true path" with the help of Mauser and local parasites.

                        Quote: HanTengri
                        It was the exception rather than the rule. And they could write a cultivator, or middle peasant into fists only in 2 cases: 1) The people were so rare m @ duck and they lifted up the villagers so much that ... 2) The "high" authorities from the district center got stuck and let's curry favor ... Agree ?

                        I will not argue, but I will quote another blogger - Weyland (Konstantin):
                        These lovely citizens described by Engelhardt were BEFORE the revolution - and after the revolution the land was divided by feeders, i.e. in 1917, everyone was in an equal starting position - so after 10-12 years they simply dispossessed prosperous peasants, and the real fists “there was a scanty among them! And under the word“ podkulaknik (ie an accomplice of the fist) could and any poor man! The feature is that the “committee of the poor”, those drunkards and lazy people made the decision to dispossess (see above on an equal starting position in 1917)!
                        “One hundred percent” I agree with Him.
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Who on what basis and why in 1925-37. among ordinary peasants "took the last"?

                        I repeat, on what basis were selected - on the basis of "Resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization." January 30, 1930"why? And" for the starving Volga region ", which the Bolsheviks themselves created.
      4. Weyland
        Weyland April 11 2018 10: 51
        0
        These lovely citizens described by Engelhardt were BEFORE the revolution - and after the revolution they divided the land by eaters, i.e. in 1917, everyone was in an equal starting position - so after 10-12 years they simply dispossessed prosperous peasants, and the real fists “there was a scanty among them! and any poor man! The feature is that he made the decision on dispossession "committee of the poor ", those. drunks and idlers (see above for an equal starting position in 1917)!
    2. kalibr
      April 10 2018 09: 22
      +5
      Have you seen photos from the text? What other impartiality do you need? State your version of "impartial text."
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri April 10 2018 18: 19
        +7
        Quote: kalibr
        What other impartiality do you need?

        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are an experienced propagandist and political strategist, so don’t include a “friend”. How would you, for example, appreciate the scientific nature and impartiality of the work entitled: “The reactionary clergy of Penza in the struggle against Soviet power” - “Priests in the service of world imperialism.”? laughing
        1. kalibr
          April 10 2018 22: 05
          0
          I would evaluate it this way: in the era of the USSR, I looked, and how did their “priest ugliness” end, and life what year. And is it explained how and where their being was interrupted? And if it hadn’t been said specifically, but since in TSB - 1887-1937 - and that’s all ... I would have said that rubbish is work - but, naturally to myself, I also thought that it’s impossible to lie to the people like that, it will end badly . And then everything is in front of you ... and specifically, everyone’s business simply cannot be inserted into such a tome. We are a poor country, with the help of three people on a penny wage this can not be done. And I don’t turn on the "fool", I consider it humiliating to lie to people that they know much less than me.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri April 11 2018 23: 46
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            and specifically, everyone’s business simply cannot be inserted into such a tome.

            Yes, and for what? It doesn’t matter at all! Here, the father of the chairman called, in public, a goat and anti-christ - this is anti-Soviet agitation. Another priest urged, from the pulpit, the people to burn the collective farm barn - again anti-Soviet agitation. And no, there is no difference between these acts, because "anti-Soviet agitation" is simply a synonym for "FOR NO SOMETHING" ... Yes?
    3. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ April 10 2018 16: 20
      +2
      Quote: HanTengri
      Already on the basis of the name, scientific impartiality cannot be expected from this work. Sorry.

      What name would you suggest?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri April 10 2018 17: 37
        +2
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        What name would you suggest?

        I do not know. I have no habit of recommending the names of works that I have not read.
        1. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ April 10 2018 19: 25
          +3
          Quote: HanTengri
          I do not know. I have no habit of recommending the names of works that I have not read.

          But there is a "wonderful" habit of criticizing. hi
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri April 10 2018 20: 23
            +5
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            But there is a "wonderful" habit of criticizing.

            "That's what I like about the little ones, it's their clearness!" (c) "Brotherhood and the Ring." laughing
            Especially for those in the tank:
            Phrase:
            Quote: HanTengri
            Already on the basis of the name (“Penza Martyrology of the Victims of the Faith of Christ” - “The Righteous By Faith Will Live”), scientific impartiality cannot be expected from this work. Sorry.

            it has no name for it (“Penza Martyrology of the Victims for the Faith of Christ” - “The Righteous By Faith Will Live”), nor any claims. She merely claims that a historical study entitled: “Penza Martyrology of the Victims of the Faith of Christ” - “The Righteous By Faith Will Live” possesses, with a probability of 99,9%, exactly the same political “bias” as, for example, a work with the title: "The reactionary clergy of Penza in the fight against Soviet power" - "Priests in the service of world imperialism." laughing That's clearer?
            1. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ April 10 2018 20: 43
              +1
              Quote: HanTengri
              "That's what I like about the little ones, it's their clearness!" (c) "Brotherhood and the Ring."

              I like it too.

              Quote: HanTengri
              scientific you don’t have to wait for impartiality from this work. Sorry.

              Those. - a biased article, you can not read it. Of course, what criticism is there ?!
            2. kalibr
              April 10 2018 21: 58
              0
              But in another case, it would be necessary to emphasize (or not?) That women were killed for words. And the priests ... Said "not that" - and now you are already a reactionary and death is in the basement. Or humane - 10 years in Kolyma. And then the result: where is this Soviet power itself? So she was and isn’t? "Probably not those who shot," another reader of the "Reaction clergy" would say.
            3. Weyland
              Weyland April 11 2018 10: 54
              0
              Quote: HanTengri
              Priests in the service of world imperialism

              Explain how the servants of religion can be at the service of world imperialism, one of the main tenets of which is: “It’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven” wassat
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri April 12 2018 00: 02
                +2
                Quote: Weyland
                Explain how ministers of religion may be in the service of world imperialism

                It's Easy!
                Quote: Weyland
                "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

                You Gundyaev this, on occasion, remind! laughing
  4. parusnik
    parusnik April 10 2018 07: 38
    +10
    The peasantry was simply liquidated as a class, just as the English peasantry was liquidated in the era of fencing and "bloody laws" against vagrants and beggars.
    ... Invalid comparison ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 10 2018 08: 06
      +7
      Quote: parusnik
      The peasantry was simply liquidated as a class, just as the English peasantry was liquidated in the era of fencing and "bloody laws" against vagrants and beggars.
      ... Invalid comparison ...

      During fencing SHEEP EATING PEOPLE. In our country, collectivization was carried out, people were necessary, both in the village and in the city, for the development of industry.
      1. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ April 10 2018 16: 32
        +5
        Quote: Reptiloid
        people were necessary, both in the village and in the city, for the development of industry.

        Well, it’s all like that, just it wasn’t necessary for everyone to "fit together." Who would like to go to collective farms and factories, who wouldn’t work on their own land. And it turned out that the villages were dispersed to collective farms and factories, and then they bought millet all over the world.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. bober1982
    bober1982 April 10 2018 09: 00
    +7
    Bolshevik atrocities against the Church surpassed the cruel persecution of the times of the Roman emperors.
    This is how Patriarch Tikhon anathematized: .......Let's what you are doing, not only a cruel deed, this is truly a Satanic deed ...
    And here are the words of those to whom the anathema was directed, Lenin (bloodthirsty fanatic) ....this is the most dangerous abomination and the most infamous infection (meaning the Church), but another comrade, Stalin, ....... the trouble is that the clergy is not yet completely eliminated
  6. kalibr
    April 10 2018 09: 24
    +6
    Quote: Reptiloid
    SHEEP ATTEN PEOPLE.

    Bravo, Dmitry! The material of the 6th grade of a secondary school is mastered by you. But this is not enough...
  7. kalibr
    April 10 2018 09: 27
    +4
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And the dispossessed people can be counted as those who suffered for the faith, and even some others, so they get postscripts and invented millions !!!!!

    No, Dmitry is on a fantasy. It indicates only those who were directly related to the church, that is, worked for its good. This flock is flock. Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 10 2018 09: 55
      +7
      And if you do not fantasize, then millions of repressed will not work. So what about fantasies ---- not to me.
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 10: 35
        +4
        Dmitry, I’m tired of telling you and other stubborn ones that there is such a GARF. There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps. And even here it was given. First in an article by Wasserman, then, in a more detailed and with photographs - mine. Millions are different. Yes? Everything is there, everything has been counted for a long time. Do not exaggerate or downplay.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 10 2018 10: 55
          +2
          Why indicate? If the Russian Orthodox Church welcomed the end of the autocracy, the interim government, the February bourgeois revolution, then it is clear that this is the opposite position towards the current government. And then you yourself, just like that.
          1. kalibr
            April 10 2018 12: 44
            +2
            That is, women can be killed for words ?!
        2. BAI
          BAI April 10 2018 11: 15
          +6
          Let's see a photocopy of the document

          As appears from the document, from 1921 to the beginning of 1954, on political charges 642 people were sentenced to death, to imprisonment - 2, to exile - 369. However, there are more detailed data on the number of convicted

          Source: https://fishki.net/2068937-masshtaby-stalinskih-r
          epressij - tochnye-cifry.html © Fishki.net
          Where are millions of innocently executed?
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 10 2018 11: 50
            +7
            That’s what it’s about, that millions of shot ones turn into completely different numbers.
            And if the author remembered the events of the 90s, then he indirectly confirmed that the democratic power of the drunk fought and repressed the population as their ideological and political enemies. And it turns out, from the standpoint of the author, ---- this is the answer for the Revolution of the October Socialist Revolution. !!!!!!!!
            1. kalibr
              April 10 2018 12: 39
              +2
              The wheel of history has turned, that's all. The most non-mobile part of the population has suffered ... The most stupid, stubborn and stupid ... 60% ... another part of them -20% of those who "found themselves". Well, and that 20% that was bad at a scoop - well now and it is fair. They are the best part of society. But, Dmitry, even if you look at school textbooks for grades 9-10 of the 90s, there is nowhere about millions of people shot. Figures from the HARPHA ... You look ... These textbooks are available.
              1. Colonel
                Colonel April 10 2018 14: 18
                +7
                Quote: kalibr
                The most non-mobile part of the population has suffered ... The most stupid, stubborn and stupid ... 60% ... another part of them -20% of those who "found themselves". Well, and that 20% that was bad at a scoop - well now and it is fair. They are the best part of society.

                This is all you need to know about the worldview of the author of the article. The main thing is to spit in the direction of the Union, concern for Orthodoxy is so, camouflage. Chubais is resting.
                1. kalibr
                  April 10 2018 16: 37
                  +4
                  I don’t understand you ... It was a badly organized state built on a bad ideology. It naturally fell apart ... Spit do not spit - do not glue it back. And you want to fuck the same thing again the second time? The struggle for a world revolution, universal help, a total deficit ... Not tired?
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado April 10 2018 17: 34
                    +2
                    universal help

                    help indiscriminately - too much. We need help ourselves. hi And even if he helped all Africans and those who joined them, it is not free - to milk them two hundred years, and not forgive debts. Business and politics, nothing more. Too quickly we lost friends .. after the collapse of the Union. Now only lumps of feces from them are flying in our direction.
                    1. kalibr
                      April 10 2018 21: 50
                      +1
                      That’s why they fly because they see us as “brothers in class” and “their own in the board,” and not ... in a word, not Englishmen in cork helmets. With those they still speak in a completely different way!
          2. kalibr
            April 10 2018 12: 43
            +4
            Have I ever written about the millions of executed?
            1. BAI
              BAI April 10 2018 13: 15
              +5
              Have I ever written about the millions of executed?


              There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps. And even here it was given. First in an article by Wasserman, then, in a more detailed and with photographs - mine. Millions are different. Yes? Everything is there, everything has been counted for a long time. Do not exaggerate or downplay.
              1. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ April 10 2018 16: 39
                +2
                Quote: BAI
                Have I ever written about the millions of executed?


                There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps. And even here it was given. First in an article by Wasserman, then, in a more detailed and with photographs - mine. Millions are different. Yes? Everything is there, everything has been counted for a long time. Do not exaggerate or downplay.

                I apologize for interfering in your conversation, but here
                with lists of all repressed = and those who were imprisoned, and executed, and who died in the camps. And even here it was given.
                and in truth there’s not about the millions of people shot, there is only:
                with lists of all repressed
                and then comes the explanation
                and those planted, and executed, and dead in the camps
                1. kalibr
                  April 10 2018 21: 47
                  0
                  No, you write everything correctly ... But ... well, people don’t want to see it ... Zapadlo! It cannot be recognized that it is a crime to kill women, it cannot be recognized that the slave labor of the Gulag victims was economically profitable and socialism was built on slave labor, it cannot be recognized that all these figures were given already in the 90s in school textbooks. And yes, there are those who understate and exaggerate all this. Both are equally bad.
          3. Weyland
            Weyland April 11 2018 10: 56
            +1
            Quote: BAI
            Where are millions of innocently executed?

            Only here, for some reason, millions of innocently dispossessed people are not included in this list - because exiled them without any trial!
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 14: 49
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          that there is such a GARF. There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps.

          They can’t be so easily punched! They claim that they are all-thrown .... "fakes"! lol
          Here are the articles in the so-called The "Truth" for the 1930s is the holy truth, but the documents are a lie!
          People live in a nonexistent Looking Glass and cannot be pulled out of there ...
        4. MrK
          MrK April 10 2018 16: 14
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          Dmitry, tired of telling you and other stubborn ones that there is such a GARF

          Slavik Shpakovsky, aka kalibr, what do you comment on your article?
          1. kalibr
            April 10 2018 16: 32
            +3
            Suitable for the gifted! and by the way, I’m not commenting on the article, but telling readers where they can find out more. Very noble occupation.
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene April 10 2018 19: 10
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      It indicates only those who were directly related to the church, that is, worked for its good. This flock is flock. Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs!

      And those who only gave money to the church and included in the martilog are no longer flocks? The Saints?
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 21: 42
        +1
        Donating money to a church and raising money for it with blessing are two different things.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 10 2018 23: 11
          +3
          I asked a question
          Quote: Alexander Green
          And those who only gave money to the church and included in the martilog are no longer flocks? The Saints?

          You answer not in vain
          Quote: kalibr
          Donating money to a church and raising money for it with blessing are two different things.

          Does this bother you?
          1. kalibr
            April 11 2018 08: 16
            0
            This is the answer. How does he not suit you?
  8. BAI
    BAI April 10 2018 09: 48
    +10
    Peasants, being church parishioners, were often very pious, performed the posts of chairmen of church councils, sang in church choirs and actively helped the priesthood. It would not be an exaggeration to consider that it was the peasantry in Russia that was the main social group in which Orthodox traditions accumulated and preserved over the centuries. Therefore, the number of victims for faith could well be attributed to those who was dispossessed and exiled during the years of collectivization.

    What is faith here? People were repressed for resisting the state policy of collectivization - i.e. because they did not want to part with their property. They also resisted with weapons in their hands (I, personally, do not even blame them for this and even understand). Is the Antonov uprising also a rebellion for faith? But the state (any) MUST suppress armed resistance to its policies. And ALL states did this without exception - armed resistance was always suppressed, or the state ceased to exist. Therefore, the attraction of the peasantry here is simply a political situation, as with the tsar’s remains, which, as it turned out now, are not tsar’s at all.
    And why did the Church repress - yes, because it was an ideological opponent of the existing State at that time. And opponents, as you know, are destroyed. Like, for example, white movement. Contradictions ceased - repressions ceased.
    1. kalibr
      April 10 2018 10: 32
      +5
      Women must not be killed! Women! This is barbarism !!! Incompatible with the notion of high proclaimed ideals.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid April 10 2018 10: 48
        +6
        To remind once again about the average age of life in the census of the late 19th century? 30 years for Russia. And for women? Compared to men, there are no indulgences under tsarism in the work, less pay .. And there were corporal punishment.
        1. K.A.S.
          K.A.S. April 10 2018 11: 25
          +2
          So you write about the average age that you might think after the revolution, he increased 5 times! And if we look at the statistics, we can see that life expectancy increased with each separation and in the 30-40 years the duration was only 10 years longer.
          before the revolution, life expectancy gradually increased just like after the revolution!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 10 2018 21: 13
            0
            Quote: K.A.S.
            In the 30–40 years, the duration was only 10 years longer.
            before the revolution, life expectancy gradually increased just as after the revolution

            In 1933, life expectancy was already 33 years (D. Medvedev)
        2. kalibr
          April 10 2018 12: 36
          +4
          On the eve of the abolition of serfdom, the working time of peasants was only 38% of the total time, and non-working 62%. Such were the hardships ... Although ... yes, it happens that someone flogged. So under the king, people had more rest than they worked!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 10 2018 19: 20
            +7
            Quote: kalibr
            On the eve of the abolition of serfdom, the working time of peasants was only 38% of the total time, and non-working 62%. Such were the hardships ...

            Once in your life you visited a collective farm and draw conclusions about rural labor. From sowing to harvesting, peasants worked from dawn to dawn. In winter, there was less field work, but they had to look after cattle, who didn’t have it, and left for the city to earn money. So here not only 38 by 62, but also your 20 by 80 on the horse.
            Quote: kalibr
            ... So under the king people had more rest than they worked!

            A beautiful fairy tale, not life, but Lafa, and what did the peasants lack? Rebel for some reason?
            1. kalibr
              April 10 2018 21: 35
              0
              This is not a fairy tale! Take the holy calendar and see the holidays + Sundays. In 1902, there were 258 non-working days a year, and 123 of them were festive days. They brought priests and ate vodka during the holidays, so the church was very zealous that the holidays were observed. That is, a lot of money went into the hole, which was beneficial to the state. So the men rebelled ... I want to drink and live well too, and who is to blame for living badly? Clearly - a landowner! By the way, in one of the articles of the series "Poisoned Feather" there was an article about this by the sailor Belenky from the battleship Retvisan, addressed to the peasants ... there it is just about drinking and land. You are just a very ignorant person who has hardened the old nonsense, but you don’t know anything new. For a long time this has already been put into scientific circulation, counted ... read Rodina magazine, you and BAI will confirm this. Interesting things are printed there. Prominent Russian historians ...
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 10 2018 23: 51
                +6
                Quote: kalibr
                In 1902, there were 258 non-working days a year, and 123 of them were festive days. They brought priests and ate vodka during the holidays, so the church was very zealous that the holidays were observed.

                Quote: kalibr
                You are just a very ignorant person who has hardened the old nonsense, but you don’t know anything new.

                Dear, our “pro”, it’s you, as an amateur, jumping on the top, you read somewhere that in 1902 there are 123 holidays, and you think that they are all non-working. You are deeply mistaken in this; back in the 19th century, not so many were established by a special decree on holidays — where there are a little more than a dozen, moreover, the holidays could coincide and fall on one day.
                And as far as peasants worked, I know not from books, but from the words of their mother, who lived in the village from 1909 to 1921, in the summer the peasants worked without days off and holidays, because They knew that "summer day feeds three winter days."
                1. Sanya Terek
                  Sanya Terek April 11 2018 03: 10
                  +5
                  Quote: kalibr
                  In 1902, there were 258 non-working days a year, and 123 of them were festive days. They brought priests and ate vodka during the holidays, so the church was very zealous that the holidays were observed.

                  Vyacheslav commented.
                  Resting 258 days a year, the peasant, on the farm, except for mice and weeds could not have anything. Moreover, the clergy "zealously watched" so that the peasant could drink too much.
                  But what about the rainbow-colored picture of a flourishing village of 1913? The peasant "plowed" or "plumped"?
                  1. kalibr
                    April 11 2018 08: 08
                    0
                    Alexander has it all in his studies, published in "fat magazines", I didn’t invent it myself. In my village of PSU, an interesting dissertation has been defended in the village for 13 years - you can see everything on the Web. No problem. And weekend data ... everything is there. You just don’t know.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 11 2018 20: 48
                      +4
                      Quote: kalibr
                      that’s all in the studies published in the “fat magazines”,

                      Life is not taught in "thick journals" or in custom dissertations, you never know what can be written in them. One must read either the documents of those years or at least the memories of those who lived in those days.
                    2. Sanya Terek
                      Sanya Terek April 14 2018 14: 52
                      +2
                      1. On the 1911 calendar, I counted 93 holidays (Sunday, also considered a holiday).
                      .
                      In the calendar of 1917 there are 86 such days. Local holidays can be added: for example, the military holiday of the Terek Cossack army on August 25 (according to the old style) is ONE day, the altar feast day is ONE day.
                      It turns out 95 and 88 respectively, no way 258.
                      2. On holidays, visiting the Temple was mandatory, but further pastime is very difficult to call idle. During the field work there was no time to rest, and the presence of a dozen horses and 3-6 dozens (depending on the time of the year and other circumstances) of the cattle did not leave much to celebrate in the winter.
                2. kalibr
                  April 11 2018 08: 12
                  0
                  Alexander Greene And so you yourself their claps, well then what is it about? It is clear why you are so dear to the scoop ... with it, for the "hegemons" everything was fine. Just what you didn’t go to the barricades in 1991, not in the partisan detachment - "Faithful Stalinist." However, it’s not too late now, right?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene April 11 2018 20: 40
                    +5
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And so you yourself their claps, well then what is it about? It is clear why you are so dear to the scoop ... with it, for the "hegemons" everything was fine.

                    I don’t know, my grandfathers and great-grandfathers from the Old Believers, in my opinion they did not go to slaves. In the civilian, both grandfathers fought against your nobles. Their children and grandchildren, including myself, received a good education under the Soviet regime, so we have nothing to be offended by.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    ... why didn’t you go to the barricades in 1991, not to the partisan detachment - "Faithful Stalinist".

                    And this "children's" question characterizes you as politically illiterate, I wonder how you were kept in the teachers of the History of the CPSU. If you really studied Marxism from the works of the classics, and not from anthologies, then you would know that it is possible to defeat the counter-revolution only with the support of the majority. Unfortunately, in 1991 we didn’t have it, the people were infected with petty-bourgeois ideology. Such as you have contributed.
                    The question of the partisans is even more stupid. Who to fight with? With your people? It was in 1918 that your ancestors from the white movement went against the people, and the Bolsheviks then defeated them with the support of the majority. So us, if we opposed the people, we would also be defeated, like the white army. Now our people are undergoing good training by capitalism, are being proletarized, and as soon as they realize their class interest, you will immediately have to “look for a budenovka”.
      2. BAI
        BAI April 10 2018 11: 01
        +10
        And high ideals have nothing to do with it, just like faith. Here the situation must be considered from the point of view of the struggle for survival. Any state is first of all an apparatus of violence, suppression of those who disagree with the activities of the state. And blaming the state for repression is the same as blaming the pike for eating crucian carp. Yes, cruel, but immoral, but there were excesses (all from the point of view of today). But history does not know another way, losers are destroyed - in all countries where the redistribution of property took place (on a larger or smaller scale).
        When redistributing property, someone always loses, someone acquires. This is always accompanied by bloody feuds without respecting decency. And here there is no, faith, ideology, morality - a pure economy.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 April 10 2018 11: 52
          +3
          Quote: BAI
          there is no, faith, ideology, morality - a pure economy.

          When in churches, latrines were defiantly arranged, mocked, burned, robbed and killed - you can agree with you, there is no ideology here - pure Satanism.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 10 2018 12: 12
            +9
            Quote: bober1982
            When in churches, latrines were defiantly arranged, mocked, burned, robbed and killed - you can agree with you, there is no ideology here - pure Satanism.

            Yeah. Now they just sing songs.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 April 10 2018 12: 22
              +3
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Yeah. Now they just sing songs.

              This news is not the first freshness, it’s even strange that we just remembered it, otherwise it’s all about watches, yachts and Mercedes. Well, at least some variety.
          2. kalibr
            April 10 2018 16: 30
            +3
            I was in a church built by Ivan the Terrible. On the walls of the fresco of 1556! But ... was turned into a psychiatric hospital and the headboards of the patients beat off the lower parts of the frescoes. They fought, and they were tied ... well, and the paintings were repelled.
          3. MrK
            MrK April 10 2018 16: 42
            +6
            Quote: bober1982
            When in churches ostentatiously arranged latrines, mocked, burned, robbed and killed

            Over the past twenty years, more than 22 000 temples have been built. And destroyed about 24 000 schools. Before the bright orders of the former holy times, the baptist of Rus Prince Vladimir, we still have a lot to retreat.
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 17: 16
              +4
              Quote: mrark
              And destroyed about 24 000 schools.

              Destroyed? or closed rural because there are no people left in the villages? do not distort the facts. It's mean and disgusting.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid April 11 2018 10: 37
                +2
                Quote: Trapper7
                Quote: mrark
                And destroyed about 24 000 schools.

                Destroyed? or closed rural because there are no people left in the villages? do not distort the facts. It's mean and disgusting.

                And why did they close in Leningrad in the early 90s? I was a schoolboy then .. And then, suddenly, about 5-10 years ago, they began to write and say that there weren’t enough of them in already inhabited areas, where there is no longer a building place, that the owners of the buildings have changed several times, but the city can’t agree .... ---- Children enroll in school from birth. What kind of talk goes on around this subject forever.
            2. bober1982
              bober1982 April 10 2018 17: 33
              0
              Every year brings us closer to full ............ tsu, comrade, it’s too late to retreat, as far back as 2000 years ago everything was said. It’s not possible to go to any church (by the way), it was also said dregs are talking about some schools.
            3. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ April 10 2018 19: 30
              +3
              Quote: mrark
              And destroyed about 24 000 schools.

              Do not tell me why the kindergartens and schools were closed?
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 10 2018 12: 04
          +6
          However, in the 20-21 century, some states began to have intentions and opportunities to survive at the expense of other states, destroying them only business and nothing personal. And no moral standards and rules.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 10 2018 14: 59
      +2
      "Poor" fluffy Bolsheviks: all of them rotted, all around internal enemies, a bunch of pests,
      a bunch of even made their way bandits in the Central Committee lol Ypres. And they are rotten Millions of people, only .... defending themselves fool
      It is interesting that only the people's power turned out to be enemies of the people hundreds of times more than any ANTINAROD authorities.
      But for the Bolsheviks, there are NO paradoxes! lol
      1. BAI
        BAI April 10 2018 17: 13
        +7
        It is interesting that only the people's power turned out to have hundreds of times more enemies of the people than any anti-national authorities.

        As always - another lie.

        On average, from 1930 to 1940, there were 100 prisoners, or 000%, per 583 people. Which is significantly less than the same indicator in Russia and the United States of the 0,58s.
        As always, ordinary apolitical arithmetic refutes unfounded false statements.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 10 2018 19: 26
          +6
          Quote: BAI
          As always - another lie.

          This is not just a lie, it is a lie implicated in evil malice.
        2. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ April 10 2018 19: 35
          +2
          Quote: BAI
          As always - another lie.

          Prison a prisoner of discord. Now they’re not jailing for “Putindurak”, but with the general secretaries for such a maxim, a “reward” in the form of an article and a “resort” beyond the Arctic Circle would have awaited you. It is necessary to distinguish between those planted "per word" as in the Union and for crime as in modern Russia or the USA.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 10 2018 21: 31
            +5
            You can compare how many were imprisoned in the TSSV for embezzlement of socialist property, and how many in the RF for embezzlement of capitalist property. Well, the size.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid April 11 2018 01: 12
              +1
              Again in the transport wrote a comment ---- I apologize for the errors. Thank you for understanding. Sincerely. Of course ---- USSR !!!!!!
            2. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ April 11 2018 07: 41
              +1
              Quote: Reptiloid
              and how much ---- in the RF for the theft of capitalist property. Well, the size.

              Because there is no such criminal norm in modern Russia as "the theft of capitalist property." But there are "economic crimes", a rather broad interpretation may be: this may include theft of a screwdriver at the factory, or maybe theft of money from a bank account.
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 10 2018 21: 27
          0
          Quote: BAI
          As always, this is another lie. On average, from 1930 to 1940, there were 100 prisoners, or 000%, per 583 people. Which is significantly less than the same indicator in Russia and the United States of the 0,58s.

          When will you learn READ in Russian? Or are you a tanker? lol
          REPEAT, for those in the tank:
          People’s government turned enemies of the people hundreds of times more than any ANTINAROD authorities.

          Now show me how much "enemies of the people" was shot and planted in the United States and Russia. IN ANY year. yes
        4. kalibr
          April 10 2018 21: 27
          +1
          And what is such a wonderful state, where everything bad is less than in the USA, so quickly collapsed? And the allegations are false and unfounded, and the slogans are correct - "The people and the party are one!", But - buh, and the people did not go after the party, and the party laid its trust on the people and all went to go about their business. Probably a little planted and shot, that's what ...
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 11 2018 21: 02
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            and the slogans are correct - "The people and the party are one!", but - bang, and the people did not go for the party, and the party laid on the people and all went to go about their business. Probably a little planted and shot, that's what ...

            It is true that while the party and the state had been purged, and they went to general meetings, these were very correct slogans. But as soon as the purges ceased, enemies and crooks climbed into the party and the slogan ceased to be correct, because by 1991 there were only a few real Communists.
    3. Weyland
      Weyland April 11 2018 11: 08
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      And why did the Church repress - yes, because it was an ideological opponent of the existing State at that time.

      Do not confuse cause with effect! stop These are Satanist Bolsheviks. am declared the Church their enemy! Religion, one of the main tenets of which says: “It’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven,” he can’t be a principled opponent of communism! ? And that the Jesuit communist cells (reductions) in Paraguay were built according to the Utopian scheme? And that the revolts of Wat Tyler, Thomas Müntzer, etc. went exclusively under religious slogans such as: "When Adam plowed and Eve spun, who was the nobleman then? " (When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? = Als Adam grub und Eva spann, wo war denn da der Edelmann?)
  9. Yuri Guliy
    Yuri Guliy April 10 2018 09: 51
    +6
    Nemery killed своих civilians (including nuns) for the noble purposes of the world revolution and the Bolshevik "happiness".
    Have the nations of the world made happy, and even their own?
  10. kalibr
    April 10 2018 10: 38
    +4
    Quote: apro
    According to your words, no credit has been hurt: are calls for the overthrow of the existing government a childish prank

    That is, people can be killed for words? Especially women?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 10 2018 16: 01
      +4
      According to the Bolshevik class doctrine, the answer is undoubtedly yes.
      Not only for words, but also for thoughts. An enemy class means hostile thoughts.
      The class has been destroyed - there are no hostile words or thoughts. The road to a brighter future is clear.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 10 2018 21: 31
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The class has been destroyed - there are no hostile words or thoughts. Дорога a bright future is clean.

        Right! Only ... there’s no one to go with already, everyone was killed ....
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene April 10 2018 19: 31
      +6
      Quote: kalibr
      That is, people can be killed for words? Especially women?

      You do not see forests behind the trees, most likely you do not want to see. They were repressed not for simple words, but for anti-Soviet propaganda, and you know the power of the influence of propaganda.
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 21: 23
        +1
        Here, and our ardent Ukrainian communist woke up! That's right - for the words of the execution, and for the action ... well, I don’t know ... the auto-da-fe is probably. A woman or a man doesn’t care. The same woman ... She is not a woman, but a military object - feeds the future soldier!
        And do not ... distort. It's not about repression. Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs. Even the most gangster state has the right to isolate those who ... condemn it. But here to kill women, and it is a question of murder, for the state of proclaimed high humanism is too much.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 10 2018 23: 18
          +5
          I write to you
          Quote: kalibr
          They were repressed not for simple words, but for anti-Soviet propaganda ...

          You answer out of place again.
          Quote: kalibr
          That's right - for the words of the execution,

          Then again you remember the fried eggs.
          Does this bother you?
          It seems to me that your illness begins, like Olgovich’s - he also began by ceasing to understand other people's comments, now he is tormented by “nightmares”
          1. kalibr
            April 11 2018 07: 58
            +1
            You see, word games with you are entertainment for me. There is a lot of work, you write serious things or pick up a photo on the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, and then suddenly a kind of mosquito squeak. How can you not answer it (in the framework of decent, of course!), Everything is the same. The main thing is clicks. I wrote to you. So why not answer, at least somehow. Sometimes it’s even interesting. You had a very good comment somehow, I even kept it, use it in the future. You ... oh, you really don’t understand anything. Already wrote, it’s not for you, it’s true that if you weren’t (like these!), Then you should invent them on the site, create virtual “Alexandrov”, “Also mammoths” and use them. This is explained in detail in the book "Internet Journalism and Internet Advertising". This is the "today" of the information world, and you were stuck in yesterday. Elections in the Russian Federation that showed? This is it!
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 11 2018 08: 59
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              You see, word games with you are entertainment for me.

              Comrade is firmly stuck in the past. The truth for him is only in Pravda, and then only in the 30s.
              To these photocopies of many documents on cannibalism, he simply says: "Fake!"
              such a simple world
              Funny and funny companion .... lol
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid April 11 2018 09: 07
              +4
              Nuuuuu, Vyacheslav Olegovich, what kind of entertainment is this for you? You have repeatedly emphasized that you earn money here. These are readers ---- INTERMEDIATE! Is there any entertainment for me? Not only and not always. Often still learn new things.
              MAMMOT happens sometimes, but rarely. He is busy. And to whom did you write, like Uncle Murzik? For a long time, with a year or more, has been absent.
              1. kalibr
                April 11 2018 11: 36
                0
                Dmitry, but one does not interfere with the other! Why do you think that work cannot be entertainment? That is, it’s probably different for the younger scoop of the dump truck. And I have both. For example, reading you and Green's pleasure is double.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid April 11 2018 18: 02
                  +3
                  Why do I guess ???? Because you, Vyacheslav too often about money and clicks. Already somehow excessive. There is a term --- potential importance. Well, so it should not be overpriced. This makes it difficult to “sell.” “So I switch from work to comments, if I can do it, somehow improve my reaction and memory. And if I sit and hollow the same thing, then everything will be forgotten.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 11 2018 09: 46
        0
        People are not trees, and not a forest, as the Communists believed.
        They cannot be cleared and cut down in squares, as
        they did. If you were assigned (according to the order from above) to the back of the head, then
        you would hardly sing sweet songs about the bright future of socialism.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 11 2018 10: 18
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          People are not trees, and not a forest, as the Communists believed.
          They cannot be cleared and cut down in squares, as
          they did. If you were assigned (according to the order from above) to the back of the head, then
          you would hardly sing sweet songs about the bright future of socialism.

          A warrior, someone’s brother! And again you write veschs amazing to me !!!!!. Do you say this, if in their ancient history, the Jews experienced the hardships of persecution and the absence of the state for almost 2000 years? In this case, we must recall the Babylonian captivity. Nebuchadnezzar. Did the communists cut through those glades and edges in that human forest? And for some reason do you fear restoration of socialism ??????
          ! ברור כשמש
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 12 2018 18: 24
            0
            Examples of 2 thousand years are not applicable to recent history.
            What was normal for a Cro-Magnon man (to eat an enemy) was
            not applicable to ancient greek. What is normal in the Middle Ages,
            not applicable to recent history.
            The communists acted by the methods of the Middle Ages in the name of the bright
            I don’t like the future.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene April 12 2018 18: 54
              +5
              Quote: voyaka uh
              The communists acted by the methods of the Middle Ages in the name of the bright
              the future

              The Constitution, the election of those who are in the Supreme and local councils, the involvement of the people in the workers 'and peasants' inspection - in the people's control, the cultural revolution, free education, medicine - Is this really the whole Middle Ages?
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid April 13 2018 14: 43
                +3
                In addition to what Alexander Green wrote above, add: ------- Abolition of the sedentary line, abolition of educational restrictions, abolition of restrictions in posts. A victory over fascism! Who has medieval methods?
  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 10 2018 10: 48
    +8
    "not marshals, commanders," red professors ", Chekists and" old Bolsheviks ", but simple hard workers peasants" ////

    Naturally, the quantity according to the order from above for the arrests of "enemies of the people"
    it was impossible to recruit from the Bolsheviks or professors.
    An order comes to the city: "to identify and arrest 300 enemies of the people."
    Well, they arrested a couple of engineers, an accountant, a couple of old Bolsheviks,
    several old men "of the nobles."
    And where to get another 290 people? And grabbed anyone. From homeless to tucked up
    merchants in the market, peasants from a neighboring village or workers on the way from the factory.
    But you will not send to stage 300, you yourself - to the same stage. Together with assistants.
    Here are the Chekists “with fiery hearts and clean hands” and worked with sweat.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 10 2018 11: 14
      +10
      Just so everyone in a row and grabbed? Horror! It would be nice to have some eyewitness accounts, better known and not OBS
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 12: 32
        +3
        You have already been written where to look, Dmitry. There are also about orders. How much they lowered to the area and how they competed, how to overfulfill the plan from above. There will be copies of articles from Bolshevik newspapers ... Absolutely cannibalistic content. Everything is...
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 10 2018 12: 48
          +7
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, this is how many times you mentioned an article in the TRUTH before the start of the Second World War and said that I would be very surprised. But I didn’t read it very immediately and was not at all surprised. Everything was clear --- Stalin made it clear to foreign leaders that the USSR would not start first. So your links may have a semantic load. Different from the accepted.
          1. kalibr
            April 10 2018 15: 57
            +3
            And so I understand you that you can shoot nuns? And ... let's continue - and we need it, right?
          2. kalibr
            April 11 2018 07: 53
            0
            I can only rejoice, Dmitry, that you join the primary sources and my recommendations are not lost in vain.
        2. MrK
          MrK April 10 2018 16: 55
          +6
          Quote: kalibr
          how to overfulfill the plan from above.

          I have already recommended an article about repression to Olgovech: Alexander Kurlyandchik. STALIN REPRESSIONS OF THE 30-X. ARE YOU SURE THAT THEY ARE STALIN? http://www.proza.ru/2017/06/13/60. But people like him, anti-Soviet, will not read. They are not readers. they are writers.
          Now I recommend you. Sincerely.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 17: 21
            +4
            Quote: mrark
            STALIN REPRESSIONS OF THE 30-X. ARE YOU SURE THAT THEY ARE STALIN?

            You can write another book - the Stalinist achievements - are you sure that they are Stalinist?
            and so about everyone ...
            no, dear man, if we attach victories and achievements to a person and a person, and say that he led the country and this and that was achieved, then let us acknowledge his mistakes and crimes in this post. something like this.
    2. Conserp
      Conserp April 13 2018 21: 11
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      An order comes to the city: "to identify and arrest 300 enemies of the people."

      Jew replicating the classics of Nazi propaganda. What an irony.
  12. Opera
    Opera April 10 2018 11: 24
    +5
    You, dear friends, just pay attention to what wildness and animal anger some commentators reach! The advocates of Bolshevism and simply the haters of the Russian Orthodox Church started talking about the Old Believers ... Do you really need to talk about this?!?! Do you know the essence of what is happening during the split ?! Can you even imagine what you're talking about ?! I will give just one example of how the Orthodox Church fought against schismatic self-immolations, and there are thousands of them! The old believer Euphrosynus exposes the sin of suicide self-immolation in The Reflective Scripture on the Newly Invented Way of Suicidal Deaths - ... a suicide sin, forbidden and condemned by the Church! ... igniters, fire preachers, dangerous sinners responsible for the death of their unfortunate followers! ... the instigators of the fires often themselves avoid the fire!
    I did not write this in order to convince the demons here! Not in my power! It’s just that there are still very young and not spiritually strong people who read these demonic comments blaspheming the Church and Christ! You just imagine what these figures would have done “worrying” for the Old Believers and daring to write this -
    Quote: Vasily50
    About how the champions of democracies and churches got excited.
    It is amazing how the church and the followers of the Jew Christ forgive themselves.

    Quote: BAI
    None of the Orthodox states have achieved significant success in science, technology and economics. What Russia now has and what it is proud of (and even just save from destruction) is the legacy of the “godless” USSR.

    Tell them they would save, at the risk of their own lives, the foolish and deceived by the false "preachers" from burning churches, as Orthodox Christians did ?! Yes, they would jump and bounce around! Instead of at least keeping silent after reading about those who died for faith, if there are unbelievers but even remnants of conscience ... So they found a reason to once again spit people's faith in the Russian Orthodox Church! Demons!
    1. MrK
      MrK April 10 2018 17: 06
      +5
      [quote = Oper] So they found a reason to once again spit in the ROC and people's faith! Demons!
      Yes, not in faith, but in the layer between God and people. And here is what this layer was doing.
      Telegram of the All-Belarusian Church Council to A. Hitler. 1942 year.
      “The first ever-Belarusian Orthodox Church Council in Minsk on behalf of the Orthodox Belarusians sends you, Mr. Reich Chancellor, heartfelt thanks for the liberation of Belarus from the Jewish-Moscow-Bolshevik godless yoke, for the opportunity to freely organize our religious life in the form of the Holy Belarusian Orthodox Autocephalous Church and wishes a quick victory to your invincible weapon ”[Church Life Magazine. 1942. No. 1].
      Archbishop Philotheus, Bishop Athanasius, Bishop Stephen.
      1. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ April 10 2018 20: 11
        +4
        Quote: mrark
        Yes, not in faith, but in the layer between God and people. And here is what this layer did

        "Interlayer," say. So Stepan Komarov also thought. Thought, thought, and then went to the temple and shot those who think differently. And many followers of Luther also thought so: "what for is this layer between God and people." And then they came up with a lot of things, who had “God in the soul”: some began to baptize the dead, others forbade blood transfusion ... The church did not arise out of human will. "and I tell you: you are Peter, and on this stone I will create My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against her;" (Matt: 16-18)

        Quote: mrark
        Telegram of the All-Belarusian Church Council to A. Hitler. 1942 year.

        Raskolnikov remembered? Do you want to remember Vlasov? Order-bearer general, member of the CPSU (b).
        And besides this telegram there was also this: Address of Metropolitan Sergius on the morning of June 22, 1941 immediately after the morning service with the blessing of all Orthodox to defend the Motherland from the Nazis, and this is the “Resolution of the Council of the Russian Orthodox Church of 1943 on excommunication and deprivation of dignity who sided with fascists of the clergy. " You still blame the Russian Orthodox Church for the actions of the schismatic Filaret in Ukraine.
  13. Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 10 2018 11: 49
    +6
    I don’t understand why these people were shot. I understood from the article that the author is also not clear. So let's finally figure it out, for what? There are articles, there are sentences, etc. And so it all reminds meaningless mantras about millions of innocently killed.
    1. kalibr
      April 10 2018 12: 56
      +4
      The article says why. There are even photocopies of pages and No. of affairs. Shot for distributing religious books and campaigning ... Guilt, certainly worthy of death!
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 10 2018 17: 04
        +8
        There are even photocopies of pages and No. of affairs.

        There is a photo from the book. and where is the photo from the case? Where is the verdict? Where is the specifics? 58 article is very extensive, there are several 20 points. So you write
        Shot for distributing religious books and campaigning ...

        and immediately silent about what anti-Soviet agitation. And what was it expressed in? Derailed the train or called to pray for the king? agree different things.
        Guilt certainly worthy of death!

        if a terrorist is now caught and imprisoned for anti-Russian agitation and calls for terrorist attacks, I certainly think he deserves to die.
  14. Curious
    Curious April 10 2018 13: 05
    +12
    History can be considered philistine, or it can be viewed as a historian. If, as a historian, then it is impartial, objective, only facts and their causal analysis. Then the conclusions.
    Today, the material is presented purely philistine. The emphasis is on emotions, human suffering, events presented as if the Bolsheviks, because of their vicious bloodthirstiness and inferiority, set as their goal to plunge Orthodox people at the root. And how else to understand? Prior to the Decree of April 17, 1905, “On Strengthening the Principles of Tolerance,” and the Manifesto of October 17, 1905, the Russian Empire was not permitted by law a non-confessional state. That is, at the time, as it is now fashionable, of the October Revolution, out of approximately 126 million people (I will not give a very precise figure), about 000 million were Orthodox (First General Census of the Russian Empire in 000. Distribution of the population by religion and region). That is, if we follow the logic of the presentation of the material in the article, more than two-thirds of the population should be destroyed for belonging to the Orthodox faith. And then with whom is communism to be built? Mohammedans were in second place, Catholics in third. With them?
    Therefore, the policy of the revolutionary government towards believers in the first post-October years was incomparably more flexible than the author is trying to imagine. Being really thinking politicians, the Bolsheviks could not help but think about developing a long-term strategy in relation to the Russian Orthodox Church. and other faiths. But what about the Russian Orthodox Church and other faiths?
    The Catholic Church dotted all the "i" back in the days of the pontiff Leo XIII, who branded in one fell swoop communism, socialism and class struggle as a path to fiery hell. And what about the ROC? After all, the Church in its history more than once found itself in the position of persecuted and learned to develop a formula for interaction with the government, and each time it found such a formula. But this time, for some reason, it did not work out. In 1918, the Russian Orthodox Church in the person of Patriarch Tikhon anathematized the workers 'and peasants' government.
    Well, how was this government supposed to react? The Russian Empire, by the time of the revolution, had 111 thousand Orthodox priests and 92 thousand monks. This is 0,15% of the population. And if you take into account the influence of priests on the peasant population, which constituted the majority in the Empire?
    To summarize, we do not see forests beyond the trees. Describing the tragic pages we forget what the reason for the tragedy is. Social upheaval is always accompanied by human suffering. “Walking through the agony” of Tolstoy remember. But who brought society to these shocks. country, people. "See the root" Prutkov called. Today I did not see the root.
    1. kalibr
      April 10 2018 16: 26
      +3
      Buy this book, dear Viktor Nikolaevich, read it from and to - well, it’s so, a good wish, of course, but it’s ... at the level of reasoning, you see, the roots themselves will appear.
      1. Curious
        Curious April 10 2018 17: 44
        +4
        We, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, practically all have someone in such books. And not one by one. So if you think that this skating rink has not hooked my family, you are mistaken.
        1. kalibr
          April 10 2018 21: 04
          +1
          I don’t think anything about your family, but I think it’s silly to glorify a corpse. But even more stupid when smart people praise him, then you immediately begin to doubt it.
          1. Curious
            Curious April 10 2018 21: 16
            +7
            Overcoming doubts about the reality of the objective world is a classic problem of philosophy. Doubt is one of the most important concepts, which in its content combines a rational and intuitive perception of the world.
            As for the glorifications, I don’t have them anywhere. The call for objectivity and an impartial search for the causes of various historical events, if only so that they do not happen again, is not a glorification. Or do you think that by kicking a corpse, you were insured for all time?
            1. Mikado
              Mikado April 10 2018 22: 02
              +7
              Overcoming doubts about the reality of the objective world is a classic problem of philosophy. Doubt is one of the most important concepts, which in its content combines a rational and intuitive perception of the world.

              Victor Nikolaevich, you are breaking your brain. wink drinks
              Regardless of the article, let me express my despicable opinion, and give examples. So, I served at the police school, the oldest police school in the USSR-Russia. And he studied (before this) behind the fence from her old site - Sergiev Monastery in Strelna. Why there in the 70s (if I’m not mistaken) the school was “shoved” - a question to the attitude towards the church and religion of that time. But in the wake of "universal churching" in the 90s, the school was expelled from there for the sake of the monastery. Expelled to the base of the former overclocked Kirov Combined Arms School. This school was the heiress of the famous Officer Rifle School, where Fedorov created his automatic rifles, and General Filatov made “three-wheeled wheels”. At the time of moving there, in the buildings of the former school, according to the old-timers, there were not only windows, but also window boxes - everything was stolen. Recovery took years. I entered the university - the school behind the fence (in the monastery) spent the last set on the old site. They drove out the school for the sake of two dozen monks. And the abbot father Nikolai (namesake!) Then came to our faculty to give lectures at the information hour about love for one's neighbor. We spent a year patrolling the vast territory of the former school, of which 60 percent of the monks simply did not need. And after training, as I said, I came to work in the secondary school, and I learned a lot. Before me lies the book "The Abode of the Northern Capital", I specifically took it from the old apartment. So, in conclusion, Father Nikolai said his “word”, pouring mud on the then Head of the school G.V. Bondarenko. Gennady Vasilievich was a wonderful leader, a good administrator, and I had the honor to serve under his leadership. And the person who, as a result of undercover intrigues, drove 800 people "in the cold", pouring mud on them, had the conscience to lecture me on love ????
              In Feodosia in 2011, guides with wringing hands told us a lot about the nuns who were allowed by the Orthodox Romanians to serve in the cathedral during the occupation and who (the nuns) left with them together in the 44th. These so-called "Orthodox Romanians" stood nearby when the Germans shot hundreds of children in a ditch near Kerch, they held a candle! The toys of these children, which they pressed to their hearts before being shot, are exhibited in the museum at the foot of Mount Mithridates!
              And the last step for me was the story of St. Isaac's Cathedral. When I served, I went almost every year to lay wreaths at Piskaryovskoye Cemetery on the day the Blockade was broken. On the side of the memorial, a wonderful artist Nikolai Burov stood modestly and read with his loud voice - the very future director Isaac, who quit this whole situation.
              The state needs a church. The turn to her took place before the war. And Stalin understood this perfectly. And among the ministers of the church there were many wonderful patriots: Peresvet and Oslyabya, rectors of the Solovetsky Monastery, Archbishop Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky, a talented surgeon who saved the lives of thousands of Red Army soldiers, and many others.
              But in property things there must be a certain balance between the church and the state! Something like this ... I have the honor!
            2. kalibr
              April 11 2018 07: 50
              +2
              Do I really kick? I talk about what 90% of people here do not know about, moreover, with links to the source. And I constantly say - and read for yourself this and that ... And I do not impose any conclusions, although I am not embarrassed of my views. So it's you in vain.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 11 2018 10: 57
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            I don’t think anything about your family, but I think it’s silly to glorify a corpse. But even more stupid when smart people praise him, then you immediately begin to doubt it.
            Sorry to wedge about the corpse. Is it the institution of autocracy in the Republic of Ingushetia, or democracy, both in the temporary and in the Russian Federation?
            Although democracy is with us, it is rather not a corpse, but a victim of an abortion? Or maybe some other painful bullshit? Sorry, the Doctor is out .....
            1. kalibr
              April 11 2018 11: 31
              0
              Dmitry, the Republic of Ingushetia was poorly arranged, was delayed with market reforms, and as a result there was Lenin’s “wall, but rotten, stick and fall apart”. And in the end, the first "corpse". The USSR was erected. But it, too, was ill-arranged, on a bad ideology, its leadership also delayed market reforms and the situation with the rotten wall repeated. And we raped the second "corpse." I think that's enough, huh? Now we need to develop what we have. And again - "democracy is ... bad!" Yes! But which is better? Again "scoop" Yes, no, that's enough. Yes and never will be. So it’s better not, alas, Dmitry, you have to adapt.
              1. Curious
                Curious April 11 2018 12: 47
                +4
                "Yes, and never will be."
                Vyacheslav Olegovich always said that you ignore philosophy, which, undoubtedly, greatly reduces your potential.
                There was such a great ancient Greek philosopher, Stoic; a slave in Rome, then a freedman - Epictetus. Sitting on the Roman mound, uttered this Epithet wise thoughts. One of them: “An intelligent person will never complain, because he understands that our real grief does not come from what happens to us, but from what we foolishly think about what has happened. Let’s remove these unreasonable ones thoughts, and what we considered unhappiness will cease. "
                Therefore, both about the future and that it is not in our power to “not think unreasonably,” and even in a categorical form. It’s not worth trying on the Demiurge.
                1. kalibr
                  April 12 2018 07: 14
                  +1
                  It may well be that you are right, but there is nothing to embrace. I work in a slightly different plane and all my experience says that people, 80% need one thing - “bread and circuses”. This is where the whole philosophy ends and we need only think about how best to give them. The remaining 20% ​​can be ignored because if you give them freedom, they will take everything for themselves, and they will also thank you. And - what is the philosophy here? It's simple: take more, throw further!
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid April 12 2018 06: 56
                +3
                Democracy is living its last days in developed countries. Why do we need it? She was after all, while they competed with socialism.
    2. Weyland
      Weyland April 11 2018 11: 14
      0
      Quote: Curious
      In 1918, the Russian Orthodox Church in the person of Patriarch Tikhon anathematized the workers 'and peasants' government.

      Perhaps you remind me of what percentage of the workers and peasants' government were workers and peasants? wassat
      1. Curious
        Curious April 11 2018 12: 21
        +3
        You are not tired of spinning this record sawn about how many Russians and peasants with workers were in the government? Start to rise to a higher level, try to think. And then you will remain at the foot of the noise to create a discussion.
  15. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx April 10 2018 13: 32
    +5
    Thank you, Vyacheslav !!!
  16. Opera
    Opera April 10 2018 14: 53
    +6
    Quote: Curious
    In 1918, the Russian Orthodox Church in the person of Patriarch Tikhon anathematized the workers 'and peasants' government.

    If you are already talking about a workers 'and peasants' government, then to begin with, answer whether it was generally workers '- peasants' ?! Further, speaking of anathema, you mean the anathematization of the Bolsheviks as traitors and apostates from the Faith and enemies of the Russian people. In the message, the Patriarch said that instead of Christian love, seeds of malice, hatred and fratricidal slaughter are sown everywhere! He called on the madmen to come to their senses and stop the bloody reprisals! He forbade the Orthodox to take any part in the bloody deeds and attacks on the Church of Christ, mockery of the shrines and anathematized monsters who do it if they still bear Christian names ... The Patriarch did not say yes or no about the workers 'and peasants' government there were workers in that government - peasants, and people with Christian names were not particularly observed! Next, you conclude that is murderous in every way -
    Quote: Curious
    Well, how was this government supposed to react? The Russian Empire, by the time of the revolution, had 111 thousand Orthodox priests and 92 thousand monks. This is 0,15% of the population. And if you take into account the influence of priests on the peasant population, which constituted the majority in the Empire?

    Well, let me ask you this ?! Shoot the nuns ?! Although above in your note you wrote a little different -
    Quote: Curious
    That is, if we follow the logic of the presentation of the material in the article, more than two-thirds of the population should be destroyed for belonging to the Orthodox faith. And then with whom is communism to be built? Mohammedans were in second place, Catholics in third. With them?
    Therefore, the policy of the revolutionary government towards believers in the first post-October years was incomparably more flexible than the author is trying to imagine.

    About the flexibility of the Bolsheviks whose leaders and direct agents in the life of the struggle against the Russian Orthodox Church were more and more different international rabble (Jewish - Latvian mainly) we leave on your conscience! You probably call flexibility that you didn’t really shoot everyone, and even the temples are a little bit left! And here is your question about who, then, is building communism somehow hanging in the air!) That's what the Bolsheviks were counting on national cadres (not Russian naturally) on the ground! Both Lenin and Trotsky talked so much about Great Russian chauvinism and about claims to the Russian monarchy and Russians from other nations that must be used to their advantage, that you cannot not know! Well, the Russians had to be divided in class first, then generally territorially, it was desirable to decompose by trampling Christian morality and centuries-old foundations of society, abortions were the first in the world to be allowed, so as not to especially procreate, dispossess, talk, remove the bells, then destroy the churches, and in which to arrange clubs and stables ... Well, here you can build communism! But in another way, communism is not built!
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 April 10 2018 15: 11
      +5
      Quote: Oper
      Shoot nuns?

      It was they, the "Latvians", who thought that ....The old religious junk should be destroyed .....as stated by the party’s favorite, a friend of Trotsky and Stalin, Lenin’s “son” is Comrade Bukharin.
      And when this bastard (the party’s favorite) was sentenced by his accomplices to execution, he compelled pity for morphine, wanted to cloud his crazy brains before being shot. He didn’t receive portions, his comrades didn’t get into an awkward situation.
      For comparison, when a priest or a monk was shot, then ....... cross the killers and forgive .... do not know what they are doing ....
      Here you have all the fables about opium for the people.
      1. Opera
        Opera April 10 2018 15: 45
        +5
        The words of this comrade about Russia are known, as simply about a geographical concept that was also handed over by them (the Bolsheviks)!
  17. kalibr
    April 10 2018 15: 59
    +4
    Quote: BAI
    Have I ever written about the millions of executed?


    There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps. And even here it was given. First in an article by Wasserman, then, in a more detailed and with photographs - mine. Millions are different. Yes? Everything is there, everything has been counted for a long time. Do not exaggerate or downplay.

    That is, more than two million is not millions? To imprisonment - 2 - these are your numbers. And I repeat for the especially stubborn, where I have written about the millions of executed. Repressed - yes, shot - no. You somehow advised to read carefully, right? Well, read it!
    1. BAI
      BAI April 10 2018 17: 28
      +4
      That is, more than two million is not millions? To imprisonment - 2 - these are your numbers.

      These are the figures of the document that I cited. And as always, juggling.
      Shot - 642 people - this is not millions. Sentenced to imprisonment - 980. Obtaining a sentence is far from being shot, and the figure is the minimum possible when you can talk about a million in the plural. 2 people less - and there will be ONE million or more.
      where I have written about the millions of executed.

      I brought you your quote from your comment:
      There are materials, including photocopies of documents, with lists of all repressed = and imprisoned, and executed, and dead in the camps. And even here it was given. First in an article by Wasserman, then, in a more detailed and with photographs - mine. Millions are different. Yes? Everything is there, everything has been counted for a long time. Do not exaggerate or downplay.
      1. kalibr
        April 10 2018 19: 57
        +2
        Don’t downplay. There are less than 369 people - and there will be ONE million or more. And still there will be 221 million.
        1. BAI
          BAI April 10 2018 20: 29
          +1
          Will ONE one million and nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine people.
          1. kalibr
            April 10 2018 20: 56
            +1
            And you still write to me about juggling? Very funny. However, what to expect from a specialist in the field of "SS" research. You, I see, are constantly trying to prove something to me? Do not! You are not a VAK, not a reviewer of the RFBR scientific foundation, and not an editor of the EKSMO publishing house. Go about your business, and let me do my thing.
  18. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene April 10 2018 21: 05
    +6
    In his article, Shpakovsky, as always, concealed a blatant lie.
    Shpakovsky presents us with the Penza Martyrology as a revelation of the Stalinist repressions.


    I quote the author: “And there were three people in Penza: Alexander Dvozhansky, Sergey Zelev and Archpriest Vladimir Klyuyev, who reviewed thousands of cases of convicts for faith, recruited employees of the FSB Directorate for the Penza Region, who took on the hard work of investigating, stored in the archives of the administration, and as a result of all these works, they prepared the Penza Martyrology for the Victims of the Faith of Christ - The Righteous By Faith Will Live, 583 pages long. Work on the Mortyrologist lasted for 17 years. It contains more than 2200 names of people affected by faith. Injured in different ways: someone who was imprisoned for three years, and someone received the highest measure. Surprisingly, among the latter there are many female nuns. Already they blew up trains, stole collective farm grain or poured sand into the rubbing parts. Judging by the cases, they were shot just because they were ... nuns. They shot women, not men who could pick up weapons. Or was the Soviet government so afraid of their courage and the words that they could say? The fact that such a “punishment” is already unfair, undoubtedly, but in essence and simply criminal ”

    But this lie is revealed after reading the information on the website of the Penza diocese.

    http://пензенская-епархия.рф/2014/12/05/%D0%B2-%D
    0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B7%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D
    0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0
    %B8-%D0%BA%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%83-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D
    0%BC%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81/

    I quote the site information: “Penza local historians Alexander Dvorzhansky and Sergey Zelyov worked on labor for a total of 17 years. The book includes about 2200 names of Penzens who suffered for Christ, from Peter the Great to the twentieth century, inclusive : bishops, monks, priests, deacons, laity. All these people are somehow connected with Penza and the Penza region: they were born here, studied, served, and were executed. Some of them have already been counted as saints. "

    Pay attention to the phrase "... about 2200 names of Penza victims for Christ, BEGINNING FROM PETER'S TIMES TO THE XX CENTURY, INCLUDE ..."

    Conclusions, dear readers, do it yourself.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 11 2018 01: 31
      +3
      Thank you very much, Alexander, that you disinterestedly work for free, write, study. And I regret that I rarely look at other people's links.
    2. kalibr
      April 11 2018 07: 37
      +1
      And how did the “Petrine times” frighten you so much? You are in a hurry in your convictions, and haste is good only when catching fleas. I will tell you more in the Mortyrologist, there are people who suffered for the faith in 1905-07, that is, under the tsar! So what? They are from the time of Peter the Great (if you read the whole book!) And until 1917 there are negligible numbers. And women nuns at that time were not shot for words. So the bulk of these 2200 people still fall on the "scoop"!
    3. Weyland
      Weyland April 11 2018 11: 16
      0
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Pay attention to the phrase "... about 2200 names of Penza victims for Christ, BEGINNING FROM PETER'S TIMES TO THE XX CENTURY, INCLUDE ..."

      And how many of these 2200 suffered for Orthodoxy from Peter's times until October 1917 - units or tens?
  19. kalibr
    April 10 2018 21: 13
    +1
    Quote: glory1974
    and you are silent about that anti-Soviet agitation

    You add more - "maliciously silent," because she could also campaign for a flight to Mars, right? Or are we in the first class, where everything needs to be clarified to the point? But comrades from the authorities did not share copies of the cases. Given that ... given. And you have to be satisfied with this. But this nun did not derail the trains for sure. So for her words ... for words. Well, your opinion about the "words now" does not surprise me. A lot of people were brought up by that power, the same camp guards also had children, and they had children ... so a “simple solution” to any question is the first thing that comes to their mind.
    1. Rastas
      Rastas April 10 2018 21: 38
      +4
      If priests were shot for religious feelings, then why didn’t they all be shot, they did not expel them from the churches, and they didn’t put them in prison? Logically, they should have finally covered this shop.
      1. kalibr
        April 11 2018 07: 42
        +1
        Quote: Rastas
        Logically, they should have finally covered this shop.

        Wow! And I think so ... If you are already building a new society ... then ... why drag any rubbish into it, right? Because weed grass grows again, if not uprooted. After all, they suggested "throwing Pushkin off the steamship of our time", creating a completely new culture, art ... And we have ... 50 to 50. That is, they left a lot of loopholes for restoration of the past. So it came back. In a different way, but returned. However, your option is also not good. He was tested in practice by Pol Pot and Yeng Sari and also unsuccessfully.
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ April 11 2018 07: 51
        +2
        Quote: Rastas
        If priests were shot for religious feelings, then why didn’t they all be shot, they did not expel them from the churches, and they didn’t put them in prison? Logically, they should have finally covered this shop.

        Well duck, that’s all that went to: "Atheist Five-Year Plan". But this is bad luck - the Great Patriotic War began, and the church suddenly became very needed!
      3. bober1982
        bober1982 April 11 2018 08: 23
        +1
        Quote: Rastas
        Logically, they should have finally covered this shop.

        There were many reasons.
        In the second half of the 20s, the struggle for power and the internal party struggle escalated, which distracted the attention of the authorities from the Church, and a kind of small respite was obtained.
        In 1937-1938 a terrible blow was again dealt to the Church, and it would seem, as the authorities considered it, that it was done away with. Only a few high hierarchs remained in the Church itself; the arrest of Metropolitan Sergius was being prepared. But with the outbreak of World War II, Stalin made an alliance with the Church, of course, in a difficult military situation, he could not ignore the religiosity of the people, and therefore decided to compromise. The church received another respite.
        Since 1948 the next round of repressions began - the arrests of the clergy, the closing of churches, this period ended with the death of Stalin, then everything was as usual, the struggle for power began (Beria, Khrushchev, Molotov and other comrades), the authorities had no time for church affairs, and the Church received another respite.
        Since 1958 Khrushchev’s persecution began against the Church, they were monstrous, and only with the removal of Khrushchev from power did these persecutions cease, as they were.
        We can add that the persecution of the Church never stopped.
      4. Weyland
        Weyland April 11 2018 11: 17
        +2
        Quote: Rastas
        If priests were shot for religious feelings, then why didn’t they all be shot, they did not expel them from the churches, and they didn’t put them in prison? Logically, they should have finally covered this shop.

        They just did not have time for everyone. During the Civil War destroyed about 90% representatives of the Orthodox clergy.
  20. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST April 10 2018 21: 33
    +1
    Sprouts of totalitarianism require bloody irrigation.
  21. Rastas
    Rastas April 10 2018 21: 36
    +6
    Archimandrite John (Shakhovskaya), appeal dated June 29, 1941 in the New Word newspaper: “The bloody operation of the overthrow of the Third International is entrusted to a German surgeon, skilled in science, experienced in science. To lie under his surgical knife to the one who is sick is not shameful. Each nation has its own qualities and gifts. The operation has begun, the suffering caused by it is inevitable. But it was impossible for Providence to further wait for the overthrow of the godless international with the hand of the Russian people who were exiled and bound in all their places. It was impossible to wait longer that those so-called “Christian” governments would take up this task, which in the recent Spanish struggle were both materially and ideologically not on the side of the defenders of the Christian faith and culture .... A new page in Russian history opened on June 22, in Memorial Day of all the saints who shone in the Russian land. Is this not a clear sign even for the most blind that events are led by the Higher Will. On this purely Russian (and only Russian) holiday, combined with the day of the Resurrection, the demonic cries of the "International" began to disappear from the Russian land ... The inner resurrection depends on the human heart; it is prepared by many prayers and patient suffering. The bowl is filled to the brim. The “great earthquake” begins to “shake the base of the dungeon” and soon “the bonds of all will weaken” (Acts 16.26). Soon, soon the Russian flame will rise above the huge warehouses of godless literature.
    1. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ April 11 2018 07: 54
      +2
      Quote: Rastas
      Archimandrite John (Shakhovskaya), appeal dated June 29, 1941 in the New Word newspaper: “The bloody operation of the overthrow of the Third International is entrusted to a German surgeon, skilled in science, experienced in science. To lie under his surgical knife to the one who is sick is not shameful. Each nation has its own qualities and gifts. The operation has begun, the suffering caused by it is inevitable. But it was impossible for Providence to further wait for the overthrow of the godless international with the hand of the Russian people who were exiled and bound in all their places. It was impossible to wait longer that those so-called “Christian” governments would take up this task, which in the recent Spanish struggle were both materially and ideologically not on the side of the defenders of the Christian faith and culture .... A new page in Russian history opened on June 22, in Memorial Day of all the saints who shone in the Russian land. Is this not a clear sign even for the most blind that events are led by the Higher Will. On this purely Russian (and only Russian) holiday, combined with the day of the Resurrection, the demonic cries of the "International" began to disappear from the Russian land ... The inner resurrection depends on the human heart; it is prepared by many prayers and patient suffering. The bowl is filled to the brim. The “great earthquake” begins to “shake the base of the dungeon” and soon “the bonds of all will weaken” (Acts 16.26). Soon, soon the Russian flame will rise above the huge warehouses of godless literature.

      And here is Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky) in an appeal dated June 22, 1941: "In recent years, we, the inhabitants of Russia, have comforted ourselves with the hope that a military fire that has swept almost the whole world will not affect our country. But fascism, which recognizes the law as bare power and accustomed to mocking the high demands of honor and morality, turned out to be true this time as well. Baty, German knights, Karl of Sweden, Napoleon. The miserable descendants of the enemies of Orthodox Christianity want to once again try to bring our people to their knees before untruth, to force him to sacrifice the blessing and integrity of the motherland, the blood covenants of love for his country.

      But this is not the first time that the Russian people have to endure such tests. With God's help, this time too, he will scatter the fascist enemy power to dust. Our ancestors did not lose heart in a worse situation, because they remembered not their personal dangers and benefits, but their sacred duty to their homeland and faith and emerged victorious.

      Let us not shame their glorious name, and we are Orthodox, dear to them both in the flesh and in faith. The fatherland is defended by arms and a common national feat, by its general willingness to serve the fatherland in the difficult hour of trial with everything that anyone can. Here it is the work of the workers, peasants, scientists, women and men, young men and the elderly. Everyone can and should contribute to the overall feat their share of labor, care and art.

      Let us recall the holy leaders of the Russian people, for example, Alexander Nevsky, Dimitri Donskoy, who laid down their souls for the people and their homeland. And not only the leaders did it. Let us recall the innumerable thousands of ordinary Orthodox warriors, whose unknown people the Russian people immortalized in their glorious legend about the heroes Ilya Muromets, Dobryn Nikitich and Alyosha Popovich, who routed the Nightingale the Robber.

      Our Orthodox Church has always shared the fate of the people. Together with him she carried tests, and was comforted by his successes. She will not leave her people now. She blesses the blessing of heaven and the upcoming national feat.

      If for someone, then we need to remember the commandment of Christ: "Greater love is no one else to love, but whoever sets his soul for his own." It is not only the one who will be killed on the battlefield for his people and his good who believes his soul, but also anyone who sacrifices himself, his health or profit for the sake of his homeland. To us, the pastors of the Church, at a time when the fatherland calls on everyone to exploit, it would be unworthy to only tacitly look at what is happening around us, not to encourage the faint-hearted, not to console the saddened, hesitant not to remind of the duty and the will of God. And if, in addition, the silence of the shepherd, his non-contact with the flock being lived on, is also explained by crafty considerations about the possible benefits on the other side of the border, then this will be a direct betrayal of the homeland and its pastoral duty, since the Church needs a shepherd who carries out his service truly “for Jesus’s sake” and not for the sake of kusa bread, ”as St. Demetrius of Rostov put it. Let us put our souls together with our flock. Countless thousands of our Orthodox warriors, who laid down their lives for their homeland and faith at all times of the invasion of enemies by our homeland, went through selflessness. They were dying, not thinking of glory, they only thought that their homeland needed a sacrifice on their part, and humbly sacrificed everything and their own lives.

      The Church of Christ blesses all Orthodox to defend the sacred borders of our country.

      The Lord grants us victory.

      Patriarchal Locum Tenens
      humble sergius, metropolitan
      Moscow and Kolomensky "
  22. RPG_
    RPG_ April 11 2018 11: 53
    +2
    Orthodoxy was the support of the Tsar and the fact that he was eradicated is a natural process. There is no right, not guilty. This is all the result of the class struggle. The country needed resources and they were taken from the kulaks, the nobility, the church, etc. There are no revolutions without sacrifices.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 13 2018 11: 36
      +2
      In fact, during the February Revolution, Orthodoxy ceased to be the pillar of the tsar, began to welcome the Februaryists, as I wrote above, on the articles of the doctor of historical sciences and the university professor, M. Babkin.
      But the fact is that how many centuries before this everything was taken away from the peasants, and later - from the workers. Tolstoy wrote articles HUNGER. This is the terrible truth about life in the villages. And somehow no one is horrified how they lived, who took everything from them, despite the fact that they worked.
  23. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene April 11 2018 23: 16
    +2
    Due to the intensity of passions on the forum, you might think that all 2200 people “martyred for faith” by the clergy from Martyrology, who are described in the article, were shot by the NKVD, but let's see who got into Martyrology.

    For example, on the website of the Lunin Deanery of the Kuznetsk Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church (MP)
    http://lunishrami.ortox.ru/novomucheniki_i_ispove
    dniki_zemli_luninskojj
    can read about nof martyrs and confessors of the land of Lunin.
    6 men, of whom 4 were released, two were shot, and two women, one of them was released, the other was given 5 years.
    New Martyrs from Bolotnikov.
    Only three: 2 men, one was exiled as a fist, the other was given 5 years, and one woman, who was written in as they say from the side-bake. That's what is written about her on the site
    Stukalova Nina Ivanovna, daughter of a priest I.A. Kolganov, born October 15, 1922 The family suffered hunger, oppression by the local authorities, the arrest of Fr. John. In 2002 recognized as a victim of political repression like being left without father's care at a minor age.
    New Martyrs and Confessors of Great Vyasa
    7 men, three of them sentenced to death, 2 women sentenced to 8 years.
    Forest Vyas
    4 men: three were given a term of 5 to 8, two returned and continued to serve in the church, the third died at the stage, the fourth turned out to be nothing to do with, that's what they kicked about him on the site:
    Valery (Viktor Ivanovich Vashenin), Hieromonk In 1927-1929 served in the church with. Forest Vyasa of Luninsky district. 1931-1932 He died and was buried in the village of Arishka near the church. It was revered by believers as an old man: he possessed the gifts of clergy, insight and healing. In 1998, hegumen Christopher (Shiryaev) was reburied in a rural cemetery.
    springs
    Three men: one of them was shot, the second was tried by an indicative court, but acquitted, тthe retium has nothing to do with it again, that's what is written about him.
    John I. Popov, deacon (father of priest Peter Popov) died his death circa 1930
    Old Stepanovka.
    5 men, 2 of them were shot, one was given 10 years, the other 5 years, the fifth has nothing to do with it again.
    Rodnikovsky Nikolay Vladimirovich, Archpriest was born on December 7, 1885 in the village of Staraya Stepanovka, Luninsky District. On January 25, 1958, he was relieved of his duties as rector due to illness. June 10, 1959 fired for the state. He died on February 20, 1976.
    Popelema Pelepma.
    Two men. One was given 5 years, the other 10 years.
    Breaking
    Three men: two shot, one released a month later.
    9 women (nuns) of them:
    one was sentenced to 3 years, released a year later due to illness.
    five convicted and imprisoned for different terms
    one sent for 3 years
    one received 3 years probation
    one also turned out to be nothing to do with: Marakaeva Maria Stepanovna, the nun was born in 1889 in the village of Lomovka, Luninsky district, in the family of a large merchant. In 1932 she left to wander and was wanted.

    And about the mass executions of nuns.
    On the website of the Penza Monastery https://old-penza.livejournal.com/13401.html we read:
    The first nun was arrested in November 1930 and sentenced to five years. In January 1938, 35 people were immediately taken away - former ministers of the Church of Christ living in Penza, including 16 nuns. Most of those arrested were soon shot. Four nuns were sentenced to death the rest were sentenced to 8-10 years.

    Our counterparts are pouring crocodile tears to the “innocently killed” nuns - you can’t shoot women only for a word, but the nuns were shot not just for a word, but for anti-Soviet activities and propaganda, because a word to a word a strife.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 12 2018 07: 08
      +3
      Once again, thank you very much, Alexander! Unfortunately, few people have the time and patience for actions like yours. This is an example for everyone ---- not to groan and suffer after any author, but to read and read the source.
      And the author’s words are recalled about accuracy and other rules, about which he wrote in poisoned feathers. It is interesting that it is normal to teach the dead, but to hush up and juggle it is natural. And the hope that no one will read.
  24. kalibr
    April 12 2018 07: 08
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Our counterparts are pouring crocodile tears to the "innocently killed" nuns - you can’t shoot women just for the word, but the nuns were shot not just for the word, but for anti-Soviet activity and propaganda, because the word is different.

    That is, women can shoot for words? This is what it was worth hearing from you. But from such statements everything fell down ...
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene April 12 2018 11: 00
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      That is, women can shoot for words? This is what it was worth hearing from you. But from such statements everything fell down ...

      Why are you so dull? I repeat once again to you that they were shot not for words, but for malicious anti-Soviet propaganda, which probably led to some grave consequences. Otherwise, they would not have been so severely convicted. Find their cases in the archive and give in full what is written there in the charge, then you can talk about something. And so we discuss only your false texts and emotions. Be a little more honest.
    2. Conserp
      Conserp April 13 2018 17: 31
      +2
      For the cry of "fire!", "Bomb!" or "Allahu akbar!" in a filled theater - you have to shoot, despite the sexual characteristics.

      Appeals to emotions are a typical device of a typical immoral hypocrite.
  25. kalibr
    April 12 2018 12: 53
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    and to hush up and juggle himself ---- naturally. And the hope that no one will read.

    Dmitry, did you accidentally drop your head about something solid in childhood? What do you write such strange things ... This is what hope that no one will read when you give a photo of the book, where it was published and by whom it was written, take it and read it. Whether I’m not telling you all the time (writing) - read it yourself, read it yourself. YOURSELF! Just hope to read. And what is silent and what is juggling? You need to put the whole book on VO? Will not work. So you need to arouse interest in it ... It is caused. For many ... So read on yourself. Do not just write all sorts of nonsense BEFORE this, read it - then WRITE!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 12 2018 13: 59
      +1
      And you recall, Vyacheslav, how you yourself wrote that readers of your links do not read. But there is another answer. YOU didn’t read this book yourself, but wrote it in such a way, or, as you wrote to another article ----- I’ll tell my graduate student. That's what !!!! CAREFULLY! I am sending you your caring question, ----- who was dropped there, what?
  26. kalibr
    April 12 2018 12: 57
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: kalibr
    That is, women can shoot for words? This is what it was worth hearing from you. But from such statements everything fell down ...

    Why are you so dull? I repeat once again to you that they were shot not for words, but for malicious anti-Soviet propaganda, which probably led to some grave consequences. Otherwise, they would not have been so severely convicted. Find their cases in the archive and give in full what is written there in the charge, then you can talk about something. And so we discuss only your false texts and emotions. Be a little more honest.

    That is, they killed the deputy words, not for the deed. And do not wonder if they would lead to something or not. Words are words. Air. And it is just dishonesty to give them something material. And where is the word "malicious" in the original? No need to think it over. He is nowhere to be found. There is the content of the case, there is no content ... A woman is killed for words - that is what is important. You can imprison for words, kill, especially women - you can’t, only bandits do this! It’s so easy to understand, but it’s not fate. However, the supreme judge decided just that, otherwise the 91st would never have come.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene April 12 2018 19: 00
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      That is, they killed the deputy words, not for the deed.

      Although you persist in your ignorance, I repeat once again: Propaganda is not just words - it is a destructive action, it is an ideological struggle. They stopped fighting anti-Soviet propaganda under Gorbachev (pluralism) and got the year 1991 - the destruction of the Soviet state.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 13 2018 02: 15
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          But I persist in not ignorance, but in culture. The culture we have is different. You are the first generation of peasant descendants, and I am the fourth. It is clear that such as Sharikov you are blood relatives.

          Do you think you have a culture? No, dear, you have a gentry arrogance that you mistook for culture. Instead, you cultivate arrogance, lies, lack of conscience, everything that helps to fill your pockets, you consider yourself above others, consider that you deserve a higher recognition and level of benefits than everyone. You call ordinary people “ball-like”, and you mask your parasitism with myths about class and genetic inferiority.
          1. kalibr
            April 13 2018 07: 46
            +1
            On my side, the constitution of the Russian Federation on which the death penalty is abolished. Not only for women, but in general. And strange, I have no conscience, and I am against the killing of women. And judging by your angry philippics, she’s already in abundance both for herself and for that guy, but you think it’s possible to kill women for words. It seems strange to me. And about the higher-lower ... no need so primitive. There are many people far more significant socially and professionally than I, and accordingly they are rewarded. And there are those that do not stand and spit, all sorts of thieves and murderers, and, of course, they are no match for me. You - maybe. If you take the class. And genetic inferiority as a consequence of radiation exposure is not a myth, otherwise it is difficult to explain what is happening in your country from the point of view of logic and elementary meaning. And so you look at the map of radiation pollution of Ukraine after the Chernobyl accident and everything falls into place.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene April 13 2018 18: 13
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              You consider it possible to kill women for words.

              You answer, like BOT, I write to you that they were shot for malicious anti-Soviet propaganda, and you again, no, they shot me for words. A bot doesn’t distinguish words from propaganda either, and if its machine is set to the words: “don’t enter collective farms”, “cut cattle so they don’t take them to the collective farm”, “sow less so as not to surrender to the state”, its artificial intelligence, unlike you will understand that this is anti-Soviet propaganda.
              Quote: kalibr
              And genetic inferiority as a consequence of radiation exposure is not a myth, otherwise it is difficult to explain what is happening in your country from the point of view of logic and elementary meaning.

              And you try to apply Marxist-Leninist dialectics to analyze the situation in Ukraine, and then you will understand everything, and without it your attempts to understand what is going on will lead you to fascism, they were considered by many to be subhuman.
              1. kalibr
                April 13 2018 18: 29
                +1
                It is clear that women can be shot for words if the Communist Party needs it. I understand you. Such is the Marxist-Leninist dialectic. Death to women agitators!
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene April 14 2018 00: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  It’s clear that women can be shot for words,

                  Throughout the forum, you can’t learn in any way that you were shot for propaganda and not for words, it makes me think that you have the first stage of dementia - you are not able to see forests behind the trees.
                  1. kalibr
                    April 14 2018 18: 56
                    +1
                    I learned that the Communists believe that women can be killed for words, calm down. I am glad at least that in modern Russia, by law, women cannot be killed for words.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 15 2018 22: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      I learned that the Communists believe that women can be killed for words,

                      Dementia is progressing.
              2. The comment was deleted.
  27. Loki_2
    Loki_2 April 12 2018 17: 21
    +3
    It is strange that the nuns were not raped by the Jewish Bolsheviks before being shot.
    The author is so primitive that it becomes scary ...
  28. kalibr
    April 12 2018 19: 12
    0
    Quote: Loki_2
    The author is so primitive that it becomes scary ...

    It’s good, that’s scary. This is the way to go!
  29. kalibr
    April 12 2018 21: 51
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Reptiloid (Dmitry) Today, 13:59 ↑
    And you remember, Vyacheslav, how you yourself wrote that readers of your links do not read.

    And you spite all take, and read, will be among the first, and even the only one. Experience a great sense of self-worth, and this is very nice!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 13 2018 11: 26
      +1
      to spite everyone ?????? Nooo, I'd rather read something else. Mikhail Babkin, for example.
  30. Conserp
    Conserp April 13 2018 17: 19
    +2
    The article is a typical Nazi-ROCA fake agitation.

    Half of this nonsense was denied even by the Patriarch.

    When checking names in “martyrots”, it suddenly turns out that almost every “victim of faith” was either stupidly invented, or did not suffer at all, or “innocently” suffered for murder, rape, banditry or corruption, or was really killed - but not the Bolsheviks at all.

    What is characteristic, in the entire Russian Empire before the revolution there were several times fewer priests than, according to Nazi-crystal-bakery propaganda, "the Bolsheviks shot for nothing."
    1. kalibr
      April 13 2018 18: 31
      +1
      The nuns, of course, committed murders, rape, engaged in corruption and banditry. Such are the active nuns!
      1. Conserp
        Conserp April 13 2018 19: 11
        +3
        Of course not. Can they fictional nuns do something.

        Your wretched Nazi fakes and agitators have been teasing a little.
        1. kalibr
          April 14 2018 18: 54
          +1
          And there will be even more of them, under some hope ... And you will continue to read all this, read and read ... You can escape: the station / airport and Cuba and North Korea. Everything is different there. This is so in Russia now!
          1. Conserp
            Conserp April 15 2018 01: 07
            +2
            Of course, there will be more - to invent people who never existed, who “suffered for the faith”, you don’t need a lot of mind.
            Only conscience can stop, but you, the Nazis and crystal bakers, have no conscience.
            1. kalibr
              April 15 2018 07: 16
              0
              It is strange that you call the compilers of the laws of our country the Nazis. After all, we are now forbidden to kill women for words, and men too. Why are you ... opposing the law of your homeland ...
              1. Conserp
                Conserp April 15 2018 14: 08
                +1
                Is it fictitiously forbidden to fictitiously kill fictional women for fictional words?

                The sad troll is sad.
  31. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 15 2018 09: 08
    +2
    Since then, as the USSR was destroyed, which countries do not try to impose their instructions on us and accuse the Russian Federation of various crimes.
    Also, individual citizens of our state are trying to mix-shuffle times, history, countries, concepts exclusively for the sake of self-interest.
    And you can make a claim to the United States --- there is a death penalty, in assortment, then in different ways. THAT'S WHAT !!!
  32. kalibr
    April 15 2018 11: 55
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And you can make a claim to the United States --- there is a death penalty, in assortment, then in different ways. THAT'S WHAT !!!

    Let's present!
  33. SEER
    SEER April 21 2018 22: 56
    0
    to which the author descended ... Shame!