Military Review

Almaz-Antey: statements about the "invisible" rocket for MH17 - absurdity

51
The Russian concern Almaz-Antey commented on a statement by representatives of the prosecutor's office of the Netherlands that the Russian radars "did not fix" the missile, through the launch of which the Malaysian Boeing was shot down in the Donbas in the summer of 2014. From the statement of the Dutch prosecutor's office:


The members of the commission, having studied the radar data provided by Russia, concluded that the rocket could have been fired from the Buk anti-aircraft missile system, while remaining invisible in the radar images. The absence of a rocket in the pictures does not mean that it was not at that moment in the air.


Almaz-Antey: statements about the "invisible" rocket for MH17 - absurdity


It should be noted that the Dutch prosecutor's office considered in this case only one option - launching a rocket from the territory controlled at that time by the DPR militia. Like, if the missiles are not visible, this does not mean that the DNR militia did not launch it ... "It was just invisible" to the radar.

The press service of the concern "Almaz-Antey":
If the Buk anti-aircraft guided missile were launched from the area claimed by the Joint Investigation Team, in the meeting area with MN17 it would have a speed of the order of 600 – 620 m / s, which surely falls within the range of the radar complex, which means it would be obligatorily recorded by the primary radar of the Utes-T TRLK.


In "Almaz-Anthea" add:
Separately, I would like to emphasize that without destroying the structure of the primary file, making any changes to such data is impossible. It would be immediately visible.
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  1. Vard
    Vard April 4 2018 05: 46
    +8
    I saw something like a launch ... There you can see the track for thirty kilometers ... A huge column of smoke ... But no one saw it ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather April 4 2018 05: 49
      +2
      Quote: Vard
      I saw something like a launch ... There you can see the track for thirty kilometers ... A huge column of smoke ... But no one saw it ...

      especially tracking tools ..
      1. Thrall
        Thrall April 4 2018 05: 59
        +16
        The answer, whose fault is the destruction of MH-17, can be seen on the current air traffic maps of the Flightradar resource. Over Ukraine now fly only Georgians and Turks. All transit goes around this damned country.
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A April 4 2018 06: 50
          +11
          Quote: Thrall
          The answer, whose fault is the destruction of MH-17, can be seen on the current air traffic maps of the Flightradar resource. Over Ukraine now fly only Georgians and Turks. All transit goes around this damned country.

          Yesterday, only here https://topwar.ru/139147-sbu-predotvratila-skrytu
          yu-federalizaciyu-regionov-ugadayte-chi-plany-byl
          i-raskryty.html Pete mitchell говорил
          Life example: London - Lublin plane, the weather is rubbish and the plane is spinning in the waiting area. Passengers ask stewardesses: if anything, the captain after all will not choose a spare Lviv? That's "all love"
        2. Antares
          Antares April 4 2018 10: 32
          +1
          Quote: Thrall
          can be seen on the current air traffic maps of the Flightradar resource. Over Ukraine now fly only Georgians and Turks. All transit goes around this damned country.

          It is strange that this is not so. After all, the war frightens off airlines, and not only (all traffic and all transit, who are sane through the war zone)
          An altitude of 10 has ceased to be safe. Therefore, airlines have gone as far as possible from chance.
          But this does not mean that Ukraine brought down. It's about passenger safety — and then everyone stay away from danger. Moreover, the liner was already shot down there.
          And so they got it over by the fact that they decided that such an altitude was safe and were not forbidden to fly. For errors, passengers and crew of flight МН-17 paid with their lives.
      2. KVIRTU
        KVIRTU April 4 2018 10: 13
        0

        Photographed in Chaud in Crimea. And the sound there is appropriate.

        Not the most successful example, what is ... There is the launch of 2 S-200 missiles. A shot for 10 revolutions of the radar (i.e. the exposure time, in other words, the open shutter of the camera - 10 revolutions for 10 seconds each).
        So: starting missiles can be seen 3-4 turns. All. This is the S-200. Beech is good if 1-2.
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 4 2018 05: 51
      +10
      Quote: Vard
      But no one saw him ...

      That's just the point that they saw. Not only is there a photo, but those who have satellite images of this trace, and who threatened to expose us, soon realized their mistake and these images will be shown only when they decide to plant Poroshenko and K.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 4 2018 08: 54
        +2
        I can’t argue. The satellite could see the rocket, record everything .... and then political interests interfere and everything can remain in a fog.
        The radar, too, could see the rocket, under certain conditions. Total control in that direction was not conducted. All this needs a reason.
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 4 2018 10: 50
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          Total control in that direction was not conducted. All this needs a reason.

          Who said it wasn’t? Ukraine there, by then managed to deploy two Buk divisions, and this at least, and therefore controlled the air situation in that area. Russia has definitely strengthened its airspace control regime so as not to miss anyone from that territory. Americans, scouts kept their satellites there. NATO, at that moment monitored the area, using the German Air Force AWACS aircraft. There were ENOUGH controls. But where is the conclusive evidence?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 4 2018 11: 38
            +1
            For a long time, of course, I looked, but when they showed the map, the inclusion of our radars was shown. These are few, they worked across sectors, these are not total control of everything and everything.
            What shaw controlled the Yankees or dill? Who will tell and show us? Let them have the international, indignant demands, there their son of a bitch orders!
            Each defends his version. I proceed from considerations - Who benefits? -
        2. KVIRTU
          KVIRTU April 5 2018 22: 45
          0
          In standby mode, the radars operate in a circular view. By hover sectors, etc. Sector review is already alarming.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 5 2018 23: 52
            +1
            Not everyone locates a "yule" locator! The fact that the map was shown \ highlighted is explicit sectoral control!
            I will not argue, I did not depict that picture! What I remember, indicated.
            You can search for that performance in the archives of the central channels, for accuracy!
            And so, for clarity, in my time, and this has long meant, there were sectoral locators, they did not spin at all. Three antenna fields assembled in a triangle! There were also four fields, four screens, four operators ... the truth is from ultra-long.
      2. venik
        venik April 4 2018 09: 07
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        That's just the point that they saw.

        ======
        In-in! See then they (in the sense - "mattresses") - SEE !!! But here's just to tell WHAT (they saw) - this is "shit for your scruff" !!! That’s why they are "tricked into a rag" - they say "we have all the evidence, but we will not show it to anyone! ....". And quietly - they are accumulating dirt (And what if it comes in handy? ...). "Compra" is never superfluous (even for friends and vassals) - the main thing is to "put it" on time "in order to comply with your interests .....
      3. Borets
        Borets April 4 2018 09: 32
        0
        They will not show, if they show, they will be accused of concealing and shifting the blame to another state. Only if suddenly some type of Snowden type does not receive these pictures through secret channels, and the mattresses pretend that they do not know anything about it.
      4. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 5 2018 04: 20
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        Not only is there a photo, but those who have satellite images of this trace,

        you wouldn’t really trust any storytellers ... it is possible that the Americans have no satellite images at all !!! wink yes it’s one thing in films to show all your super-duper trickery with the “technique of the 22nd century”, another thing is to have it all in reality !!! laughing laughing laughing
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 5 2018 05: 11
          0
          Quote: Nikolai the Greek
          you wouldn’t really trust any storytellers ... it is possible that the Americans have no satellite images at all !!!

          I do not trust Americans in principle. But that they have accurate data, I have no doubt. Otherwise, they would have been MAIN for a long time in that commission.
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 5 2018 16: 54
            +1
            what what what apply the first to your second sentence !!! wink yes laughing laughing laughing
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 4 2018 05: 49
    +3
    The absence of a rocket in the pictures does not mean that it was not in the air at that moment.
    But all of us are right, and the Dutch. There really was a rocket, but it was where our locator did not see it, since it was coming from the territory held by the APU.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 April 4 2018 09: 59
      +1
      it was where our locator did not see it, since it was coming from the territory held by the APU

      Some kind of unsteady explanation. If we did not see a rocket from the side of the Armed Forces, how can we say that there was no rocket from the side of the militia? Would they both come to the same point?
      When the Malaysian Boeing disappeared, the pilot allegedly turned off the signaling system and the plane became invisible to radar. That is, it turns out that a civilian radar sees only those objects that emit a special signal. It turns out that the radar could not see the rocket.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 4 2018 10: 44
        0
        That's right. If the radar saw a rocket, then it would also have seen the one launched from the Ukrainian side. In any case, she became close to Boeing.
        Therefore, either: 1) The radar did not see the rocket. 2) Indications "wiped".
      2. svp67
        svp67 April 4 2018 10: 52
        0
        Quote: glory1974
        Would they both come to the same point?

        But any radar has a detection range. If this rocket were on our side, its initial flight would be perfectly visible.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 4 2018 10: 39
      0
      The fact of the matter is that the radar was supposed to detect a missile in ANY case, to which side it would
      neither was released: from Ukrainian or militias.
      And this would be indisputable evidence in favor of Russia.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 4 2018 10: 53
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The fact of the matter is that the radar was supposed to detect a missile in ANY case, to which side it would

        Even in the Carpathians? There are detection ranges
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 4 2018 11: 40
          0
          The rocket flew close to the Boeing and exploded near the cockpit.
          From whatever take-off site this would have happened: from the Snezhnoye area, as the Dutch commission had established, or from the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which were a couple of dozen kilometers to the west, the radar should have seen the rocket. Or he does not see them at all.
      2. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 5 2018 04: 34
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The fact of the matter is that the radar was supposed to detect a missile in ANY case, to which side it would
        neither was released: from Ukrainian or militias.
        And this would be indisputable evidence in favor of Russia.


        "... The Utes-T locator, the data of which was given at that briefing of the RF Ministry of Defense, did not record at all any rocket flying to the Boeing. Neither from the back, nor from the front, nor from any side. And after that I was interested in the question of why the locator did not record anything if it even managed to detect a small drone, which is more than two times smaller than the Buk air defense missile.

        The answer to this question at this press conference was given by the representative of LEMZ Viktor Pavlovich Meshcheryakov. He explained that the locator works using the so-called Doppler effect. Which, by the way, is also used in ordinary radars of traffic police inspectors. That is, we are talking about the approximation or removal of the detected object to the locator.

        The Snezhnoye rocket launched from the area would fly, moving almost in a straight line from the radar to the plane. Travel time would vary from 28 to 36 seconds. And this rocket would leave two to four marks on the locator screen. The probability that the locator would detect it with at least two marks is 99,98%. And this is science, mathematics, not social networks. And it is equally likely that the radar would detect a missile if it were launched into the tail of an airplane.

        But he did not detect anything. And this is possible only in one case - if the rocket did not approach the radar and did not move away from it, but keep the distance constant (for example, moving in a circle) or it changes slowly. It is this option that arises in the event of a missile launch from Zaroschensky or another region to the south, which were controlled by the APU.

        Utes-T fixes objects whose radial speed (changing the distance between the object and the locator) is about 40-60 meters per second. And in the case of launching a rocket from Zaroschensky, it was this indicator that ranged from 2 to 40 meters per second, despite the fact that the speed of the rocket itself was very high. The rocket went as if in part of a giant circle.

        The locator simply could not detect a missile launched from this area. And this is also a science, not a social network. But it is unlikely that international investigators will have enough intelligence to comprehend the above calculations, who have enough evidence from the series "one woman in social networks said ..."

        https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/26587/3603299/
    3. Antares
      Antares April 4 2018 10: 48
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      de our locator did not see it, since it was coming from the territory held by the APU.

      Locator only to Snow. And already to Zaroshchensky (Zaroshchansky) already does not reach? There, 30-40 km
  3. Herculesic
    Herculesic April 4 2018 05: 49
    +2
    The members of the Dutch commission, having smoked properly, wrote such a whitewash that they then for a long time renounced their own Dutch "diploma"! fool
  4. Gray brother
    Gray brother April 4 2018 05: 59
    +13
    It's funny, but Europeans think that they are representatives of the "civilized world" enjoying the benefits of democracy, human rights and other whistle-blowers, but in reality they are just not the first fresh meat.
    Almost two hundred citizens of the Netherlands were killed, and the Dutch government assholes in favor of alien political ambitions.
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 4 2018 06: 07
    +17
    Yes, to any specialist who is familiar with the work of Buk, especially the old versions - Yano is like a day, who launched it, why and why they hit the Boeing and not the mythical MiGs that allegedly shot down dill planes. But the theme with the unfortunate "Malaysian" is no different from the same fake with Skripaly, Litvinenko, Russian troops in the Donbass and the occupation of Crimea .... None of the "those" absolutely need the truth. They need a reason ...
  6. askort154
    askort154 April 4 2018 06: 40
    +3
    They pull the rubber of the investigation before the change of power in Ukraine. Then they will hang everything on the departed, but the CIA will remain in the shadows.
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 4 2018 06: 41
    +3
    remaining invisible on radar images
    What can’t you say when you are pressed against the facts, and it’s more and more difficult to lie. At the time, the Dutch commission had already been held accountable for aiding in concealing a crime.
  8. Holsten
    Holsten April 4 2018 06: 41
    +6
    The accusations of Russia of guilt for the downed Boeing will disappear only with the accusers - neither prove nor convince. The “logic” of opponents is well illustrated by Solovyov and Babayan.
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A April 4 2018 07: 04
      +8
      Quote: Holsten
      The “logic” of opponents is well illustrated by Solovyov and Babayan.

      And after all, they are also SURE in their logic. In all seriousness, the "evidence" is being collected - they are there, in the West, just turned up a little on the "evidence" - in all seriousness they are getting the "evidence" of the existence of God and Jesus Christ. Where to believe - "prove", where to prove ("Russia is to blame") - blindly stupidly believe .....
      I was once at a prayer meeting of some Baptists from the Salvation Army. In turn, as at a party meeting, they go to the podium and give "evidence" and "facts" of the existence of God. I laughed heartily, almost lounged at them loudly - I had to quickly jump out into the street ....
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack April 4 2018 07: 29
        +8
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        ... they are there in the West ...

        ... far from being as stupid as we would like.
        All these “searches for evidence” and “deeds” are a game for the public, with very definite goals. And these goals are sometimes achieved - to gouge Iraq, the Powell test tubes were enough. You can laugh at the ways to achieve this goal (the number of demotivators on this topic simply scales), but the result is obtained ...
        IMHO, we are at the very beginning of a long journey - countermeasures are only running in.
        For example, I’m looking with interest at the outcome of the “Skripals affair”. It’s a pity that far from everyone will tell the general public there request
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A April 4 2018 08: 41
          +7
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          For example, I’m looking with interest at the outcome of the “Skripals affair”. It’s a pity that far from everyone will tell the general public there

          As for me - there is no “case” either. Well, who, tell me, can’t see how, due to this “case”, the huge ears of the British secret services stick out? Sami and travanuli. Not just the same way they sheltered him - lentil stew must be worked out ....
          I recall that four years ago it was reported that in London they were preparing poisoning of either the Iraqi or Libyan civilians by the combat agents of Soviet production by Russian-speaking immigrants from the former USSR. Guess who would be declared guilty in five minutes? You’ll laugh, but the “natives” were found in Ukraine, of course ... Then somehow they lowered the brakes, but now they remembered the technology, it came in handy ...
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack April 4 2018 09: 51
            +8
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            Well, who, tell me, can’t see how, due to this “case”, the huge ears of the British secret services stick out?

            Alexey, from the "Powell test tube" also initially "ears stuck out". Which did not stop, however, from gouging Iraq ...
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            Sami and Travanuli

            It all depends on the flow of information. For example, the colleagues from Israel present here are sincerely convinced that this is not so.
            In general, I am personally very interested in how the heart will calm down there.
            1. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A April 4 2018 12: 17
              +8
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              For example, the colleagues from Israel present here are sincerely convinced that this is not so.

              This, Roman, is not at all surprising. Are you at VO enough to know that our “Israeli colleagues” are TRADITIONALLY “against”. Especially if Russia can be blamed for something or told how everything is bad in Russia. America and the "civilized world" in their presentation are TRADITIONALLY good, and Russia - TRADITIONALLY bad ..
              If we ask our colleagues from Israel, who the Sun has spotted in spots? What do you think they will answer? That's right, Russia, from which they fled. America does not spoil the sun with spots, because they fled from Russia to Israel. For freedom ..... laughing
  9. Sergey985
    Sergey985 April 4 2018 06: 41
    +1
    Good news! Everything is simple, with a small step begin to back down. They further agree that there was no rocket from the militia. They begin to merge a drop of gunpowder. In Western media, Ukraine’s involvement is being questioned more and more often. They are preparing the public opinion of their countries. I'm afraid the top of the neighboring country will not get to the Rostov military tribunal, as Zhirinovsky said. In Europe they will judge, so much so that by the end of the process, not one defendant will remain alive.
  10. Altona
    Altona April 4 2018 07: 10
    +1
    Such an invisible rocket must be thought. And the damaging elements of buckwheat.
  11. groks
    groks April 4 2018 07: 37
    0
    And it was not necessary for our crazy people to wave cartoons. The next version will be about shooting down a laser complex.
  12. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman April 4 2018 07: 50
    +1
    Ostrich policy is not safe! If the brainless head can be hidden under a pile of fake "evidence of guilt of the Russian Federation", then the ass is sticking out! Completely naked and unprotected! Gayropeytsy not to be afraid!
  13. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 April 4 2018 07: 57
    +1
    The accusation of the Russian Federation was absurd from the very beginning.
    Elementary logic, neither the Russian Federation nor the DPR could launch missiles from the territory over which side 1 route could go, and Putin found out about the Boeing crash in flight. Board 1 could return not only to Moscow, but also to Sochi, for security reasons, missile launches in a given time period were excluded by forces controlled by the Russian Federation. This is elementary. And blame the Russian Federation, let alone believe, can only mentally defective elements.
    1. Ace Tambourine
      Ace Tambourine April 4 2018 10: 15
      0
      What for!
      Maintenance of this board is prescribed per day.
    2. Antares
      Antares April 4 2018 11: 11
      0
      Quote: olimpiada15
      over which side 1 could go

      Board route number 1 in advance was not through the territory of Ukraine. This is the most ridiculous version that was rejected at an early stage.
  14. konstantin68
    konstantin68 April 4 2018 08: 27
    0
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Quote: Zoldat_A
    ... they are there in the West ...

    ... far from being as stupid as we would like.
    All these “searches for evidence” and “deeds” are a game for the public, with very definite goals. And these goals are sometimes achieved - to gouge Iraq, the Powell test tubes were enough. You can laugh at the ways to achieve this goal (the number of demotivators on this topic simply scales), but the result is obtained ...
    IMHO, we are at the very beginning of a long journey - countermeasures are only running in.
    For example, I’m looking with interest at the outcome of the “Skripals affair”. It’s a pity that far from everyone will tell the general public there request

    I agree with you! It was for the “downed Boeing” that Russia received the most severe sanctions, not for Crimea, not for the DPR / LPR, but for the Boeing. In any case, it would be an instrument of a "policy of containing Russia."
  15. Mwg
    Mwg April 4 2018 08: 45
    0
    "Do you see the groundhog? No? But he is ..."
    1. Comrade Beria
      Comrade Beria April 4 2018 09: 33
      +1
      Gopher, colleague. You need to know the classics smile

      By the way, a good name for military equipment.

      Invisible gopher rocket laughing
  16. shuravi
    shuravi April 4 2018 09: 31
    0
    Quote: Vard
    I saw something like a launch ... There you can see the track for thirty kilometers ... A huge column of smoke ... But no one saw it ...



    Yes, and roars so that it is impossible not to hear.
  17. Comrade Beria
    Comrade Beria April 4 2018 09: 37
    0
    The members of the commission, having studied the radar data provided by Russia, concluded that the rocket could have been fired from the Buk anti-aircraft missile system, while remaining invisible in the radar images. The absence of a rocket in the pictures does not mean that it was not at that moment in the air.

    These, as called members, need to say something in order to justify spending on themselves in the past, and to extend them in the future.
  18. Antares
    Antares April 4 2018 11: 21
    0
    The Russian language is good, it is so easy to play with words and expressions, interpreting anything.
    Even the very news “Almaz Antey refutes an invisible rocket” already sounds somehow absurd, reinforcing the belief in a refutation.
    What do we have on the news
    Experts appointed by a judge from the Netherlands prosecutor’s office examined the data provided by Russia and concluded that either the missile went unnoticed by the radar due to its speed too high, or the data indicating its presence in airspace were “manually deleted”.
    “Australia recognizes and appreciates the findings of independent experts who studied the radar images provided by the Russian Federation,” said Peter Crozier, head of the Australian Federal Police, referring to the results of the analysis conducted by experts. “The findings are consistent with the previously stated position (of the investigators).”
    In response to the Russian Federation
    The primary radar data were transmitted to the SSG specialists in August last year. Then a representative of the Russian Prosecutor General’s Office stated that they “refute the allegations of the official investigation regarding the launch site of the rocket,” and called them “incontrovertible and impartial.”
    What is boron cheese? Russian locators do not have data on launching from the territories of the Russian Federation and units occupied by separatists. How strange for me that the locator data could show a similar launch from the territories controlled by Kiev. After all, 2 points (according to versions of Ukraine / the world and the Russian Federation) are located not so far. Either the possibilities end or the conditions change.
    In general, an article per article (rebuttal to refutation) is the usual informational component of a single episode (case MH-17) of the global information war.
  19. APASUS
    APASUS April 4 2018 18: 49
    0
    In my opinion, everything fits perfectly into the fit of the facts to blame Russia. Who can deliver an invisible missile to destroy the Boeing, only the Russians! After all, Ukraine does not have super weapons invisible to radars.