Military Review

LaGG-3: across "expert" opinions and legends

337



Reading a lot of what appears in the vast expanses of the network about the military equipment of the past, made a funny conclusion. People can not think and reason - this time. And two - I understood why the idea of ​​“corpses was dumped” is so tenacious.

Indeed, the flourishing and development of the Internet was at the peak of anti-Sovietism. And the network dumped thousands of tons of frank inforderma. And piled up, which is typical.

And today, if someone suddenly decided that it was time for him to become an “iksperd” and start dumping his opinion on one or another occasion, there is nothing easier. Skopipastil someone rewrote, added a couple of photos - and voila!

The problem is that the network is basically what? Yeah, that's what I said above.

A vivid example. I recently came across as many as three “studies” about the LaGG-3 aircraft. As a blueprint: "varnished guaranteed coffin" and so on. According to the texts of the sample 90-x.

And let's try to speculate seriously. Not using the "izinternet" creations and speculation, but simply applying logic.

Interesting? Me too.

So, on October 10, 1940 of the year was issued a decision of the Council of People's Commissars on adopting and launching the MiG-1, Yak-1 and LaGG-3 aircraft into mass production.

We used to perceive this fact as a given. Well, they decided to launch three fighters in the series, and decided.

And the question “why?” Is extremely rare and even less often there are attempts to understand this question and answer it.

To begin, let's agree on the following: Stalin was not an idiot. I hope the majority will not argue with this. Next: People's Commissar aviation USSR industry Alexei Shakhurin was not an idiot.

First Deputy NCAP Alexander Yakovlev not only was not an idiot, he was still a talented aircraft designer.

All agree? Fine.

Smart people know that the proximity of Yakovlev to Stalin did not guarantee a carefree work and the provision of a welfare regime to his beloved. On the contrary, people flew there as if from a cannon, people were more abruptly, and not always to Kolyma. An example is the same Shahurin.

So, three intelligent people, two are specialists in aviation, are adopting three aircraft. Three different aircraft. Three completely different aircraft.

Why do I put so many big letters? Indeed, many “iksperdov” simply can not understand why. Another thing is that they do not need it. The main thing is to turn up the volume, that “the Yak was good, but the MiG and LaGG were not.” And we catch likes.

In fact, the same Alexander Yakovlev carefully covered all of Germany, swelled there with Tank, Messerschmitt and others, pledged with Hitler. And all for what? And all for the purchase of German aircraft. So by 1940, we had a good idea of ​​who we would have to fight with.

And three different planes are a manifestation of the mind.

Yakovlev and the company worked really well. What Germany already had and was in service, and what was planned was well researched and analyzed.

MiG - high-altitude fighter-interceptor.



Excellent speed at high altitudes, good weapons. Yes Yes exactly. MiG had a very good weapon. THREE machine guns BS (12,7 mm) and two ShKAS. And the interceptor had to work precisely at the height where the bombers would go. And the three large-caliber machine guns at the beginning of the war were more than enough to pick open any bomber.

Actually, here it is appropriate to recall the memoirs of Alexander Pokryshkin. He was very pleased with the MiG. I flew. Knocked down. And the complaints began when? That's right, when the wing BS removed. And the 1X12,7-mm BS and 2X7,62-mm ShKAS remained. And yet, shooting down abruptly ended, because it is not enough for the same "Heinkel-111".

Found, by the way, photos of these machine guns. Here is what the "real" MiG-3 looked like. That's why Pokryshkin rebelled:

LaGG-3: across "expert" opinions and legends


And it is clear that at low altitudes MiGs were “irons”. This is yes. Nevertheless, the clever man Pokryshkin on the Aerocabra, which was very similar in character to the MiG-3, fought in the same way as at the beginning of the war (with modifications, of course), and very much succeeded.

And, by the way, it’s not the fault of Mikoyan and Gurevich that the planes against which the MiG was intended did not go into the series. Non-177, Non-274, Ju-89 and others.

Yak - maneuver combat fighter.



You can talk about Yaks for a long time, but I will try to be shorter. Fighter maneuver combat. Easy, fast and so on. Speed-maneuver-fire.

Alas, not everything turned out well with them either. But the fault is a common misfortune: in the USSR, aircraft were built under the engines. Alas. And the engines, which are licensed copies of not the best imported engines (who would give us the best copy!), Are not, say, a strong side of our industry.

Klimov VK-105 and VK-107 of all modifications are only “Hispano-Suiza” 12Y of model 1932 of the year ...

Nevertheless, all the planes flew on the Klimov engines, into which they could be thrust. But our engines lost the German race completely, since the Messerschmitts always had the 100-150 HP. advantages. With all that it implies.

LaGG - heavy fighter.



Ambiguous, but true. The fighter was really heavy, comparable in mass to the MiG-3, but on the engine it was the Yak-1. Waiting for high speeds from this plane could only inveterate optimist.

Because 550 km / h, shown by LaGG, were already in favor.

Now the “Xperds” howl: they say, what kind of crap they put into service, the pilots died on it, the “Messers” that they wanted, they did it.

Look above. Where about idiots written.

What turns out, Shakhurin, Yakovlev, Gudkov, Lavochkin, Gorbunov gash the devil knows what, and no one sat down? Lavrenty Pavlovich went on vacation? So kind of war ...

It's simple. For the gentlemen of "Iksperdov" difficult, but for a normal person is simple.

LaGG passed ALL stages of state tests. Which then, I note, for the loot did not pass. And was put into service because of its performance characteristics fully fit the taskswho pinned him in the Air Force.

Gorbunov, as the leading designer of bribes, did not charge Yakovlev or Shakhurin for the plane. Nobody in neighbors hurried to Petlyakov and Tupolev.

And LaGG was conceived as a heavy fighter not by its mass. By arms

The gun ShVAK 20-mm or WN 23-mm, 2 machine gun BS 12,7-mm, 2 SHKAS 7,62-mm. And all this comrades Lavochkin, Gorbunov and Gudkov managed to cram into the nose! There were no firing points in the wings !!!


In general, I do not quite understand how the engine technicians served there. Wherever you go, either a machine gun or cartridges.

On the wings, then the guides for the PC or the bomb hangers were installed.



So LaGG was a powerful weapon in capable hands. Crush the bomber? Sure, not a problem. Scroll through a weakly protected object? Wrap the two.

And the main advantage: unlike Yak and MiG, it did not burn. Delta wood didn't know how. And was very durable. This is the first Soviet fighter into which the HC-37 37-mm cannon was thrown. And whose, I note, the glider did not crack, like the Yak, from the shot of this monster.

Against enemy fighters was bad. Yes, it is a fact. But it was assumed the presence of Jacob, which will connect the enemy fighters in a maneuverable battle, and LaGGi will chop bombers into small pieces.

By the way, this tactic was drawn after 1943 of the year in our Air Force. Only instead of the LaGGs there were “Aerocobras” and “Lavochkins”.

So ruined LaGG is not stupid. More precisely, nonsense, but not where "Iksperdy" usually indicate.

Ruined the weak engine and the complete inability to "dig up" somewhere new? No! As soon as Gudkov’s experiments with his Gu-82 and Lavochkin with La-5 on the installation of the ASG-3 engine on the LaGG-82 glider (the progenitor of the American Wright R-1820-F3) were completed, the plane appeared for fear of the enemies .

And - misuse. It is clear that 22.06 had to play by completely different rules, but this is a completely different matter. The fact is that instead of fighting with the bombers, LaGGi began to send "cover infantry" (it was such idiocy), storm the front edge of the defense, bomb the bridges by day and so on.

Accordingly, that's the loss.

And in the air defense of Moscow, Leningrad, and in general as an air defense fighter LaGG-3 went very well. Especially the "five-pack", with an increased stock of fuel. And as a night fighter, too, was completely. A very long time could be in the air, a useful quality.



The main problem in the Red Army, in general, for that time was the rule "die, but do it." It did more harm than weak Soviet engines.

When Alexander Pokryshkin on the MiG-3 is flying around on a reconnaissance tank to look for intelligence, this is nonsense. Nikolai Skomorokhov on LaGG-3, covering the infantry - from the same opera.

Even the Mosin rifle in different situations can be used in different ways. And depending on how you approach the use, there will be either a miracle weapon or a drun-club at the exit.

With airplanes the same.



Our pilots learned how to work with their heads, think, analyze and build combat in their minds. Expensive, but learned. "Iksperdy" while this function is mostly not mastered. Yes, they do not need it. Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V work, yes and good.

By the way, another tire from TB-3 in the garden "Iksperdam". Well, at least one led, from where the nicknames LaGG-3 come from. Like, folk art. But in fact, the “widely known” nicknames of the aircraft “Lacquered Guaranteed Coffin” or “Flying Aviation Guaranteed Coffin” were not used during the war.

They appeared after the release of one little book in the 90-x, where Lavochkin mud watered. Dreamed of her little man, absolutely no relation to aviation. But with connections in one of our publishing houses Pravdorubsky. That's where they appeared. In short, from afar, and forget about them.

In fact, in the end I want to say only one thing. LaGG-3 was a very thoughtful and competent aircraft. The country had problems with aviation aluminum. Therefore delta wood. Unlike the Yak and MiG, where they even managed without it. Yes, it was hard. But if Gudkov had been given the opportunity to experiment freely with ASH-82, the plane would have been ready even earlier. In 1942 year. Not the fact that he would have been better La 5, but a year earlier.

And the main thing - the question of application. "Air Cobra" in the States was also considered to be a complete sludge ...

LaGG-3 had to be applied in accordance with the developed concept. Alas, did not work. But to argue that “out of stupidity”, they put an armament for anything worthless and put it into battle — that is also nonsense.

There were a lot of fools back then, and there are a lot of them now, but the plane was good. For their tasks. Not great, but good. How to approach the issue of these tasks ...

And the fact that LaGG-3 has become a platform for creating La-5 is its only plus, which is also nonsense. If it was a bad plane, they would have sent him to a landfill, and Lavochkin, Gudkov and Gorbunov would not rush to work on it. They as designers believed in their offspring. Knew that will fly.

Or what, in addition to Stalin, Shakhurin, Yakovlev, and also Lavochkin, Gudkov and Gorbunov, we will write idiots?

Sorry if illiberal happened! And how then did the country of fools under the command of idiots win the war?
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Mooh
    Mooh April 4 2018 15: 23
    +27
    In general, everything is true, but why should the material be presented in the teenage language and in the simplified sentences? Or is pioneer truth coming out here now?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 4 2018 19: 57
        +10
        Quote: turbris
        you wise guy went sideways - is this a simple or complex sentence?

        This is rudeness.
        1. turbris
          turbris April 4 2018 20: 10
          +14
          "In general, everything is true, but why should the material be presented in the teenage language and in the simplified sentences? Or is pioneering truth now coming out here?" What is it called? This is a real rudeness towards the author and you can complain, but this is my opinion.
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 4 2018 20: 26
            +7
            Quote: turbris
            What is it called?

            This appeal and question without belittling personal dignity
            1. turbris
              turbris April 5 2018 18: 06
              +1
              It seems so to you, you are our most competent!
              1. svp67
                svp67 April 6 2018 01: 59
                +1
                Quote: turbris
                It seems so to you, you are our most competent!

                Want to argue?
                1. turbris
                  turbris April 6 2018 17: 59
                  +2
                  It makes no sense if a person does not have an elementary sense of tact with respect to the author.
          2. Proxima
            Proxima April 5 2018 13: 37
            +23
            Once again, we "discover America", a continuous shy from side to side. It’s either a “varnished coffin”, or a “beautiful” plane - a NORMAL PLANE, with its own specifics (that is, what tasks it was intended for) and naturally, with its “pluses” and “minuses”. The task of the fighter pilot consists precisely in order to masterfully use its "pluses * and vice versa, to level its" minuses ". In the capable hands of LaGG-3 turned an effective weapon. All Luftwaffe planes, including fighter jets, could be "scrapped" from LaGG. Many of our illustrious aces fought at LaGGs. What they were doing on this "coffin" is incomprehensible to the mind!
            I will take, as an example, only one ace - Pavel Kamozin.
            In a combat mission on July 19, 1942, Kamozin led the top five LaGG-3. Above Shaumyan, North Caucasus, five Soviet fighters entered fight with six bf. 109. Kamozin immediately shot down one Messer, a second German plane was destroyed by one of the followers. Germans on the radio called for help - pulled up to the place of fight another 15 Bf. 109. Kamozin shot down two more all Soviet fighters returned to base hi
            Another episode ... October 7, 1942, then he led the top five LaGGs from his regiment and a couple of stray Yaks from the 518th IAP. The Stalinist falcons intercepted 11 Ju-87 dive bombers who were guarded by four Bf.l 10 and six Bf. 109. Kamozin and his wingman in the first call shot down a single-engine messer, and the other pilots lit two “pieces”. Entered the battle six more Bf.l09. By the end of the battle, Kamozin shot down three Bf. 109, and total Germans lost six Bf. 109 and two Ju-87s. The losses of the Soviet side amounted to three fighters and one pilot.
            Well, perhaps I’ll finish on the third episode .. February 22, 1943, the Black Sea northwest of Gelendzhik, Kamozin and Tormakhov intercepted a pair of Bf.109, which attacked the IL-2 attack aircraft. Like horror flying on the wings of the night, glorious pilots attacked the fascist aggressors. A short burst lit Kamozin one Messerschmitt, and the second in a panic disappeared into the clouds.

            Satisfied Kamozin and Tormahov bowed with the attack aircraft and flew on. There it was! The surviving fascist overcame fear and horror, having sat out in his cloud. Hitler’s extortion from under the bash attacked the Kamozin’s plane. Tormakhov did not have time to attack - a desperate pilot threw LaGG under the backbone of the Luftwaffe, taking fire on himself. LaGG Tormakhova suffered severe damage, but the vulture rejoiced early. LaGG Kamozina in a sharp turn hi hung on Messer's tail. It would be better if the Fritz was sitting in his cloud - and so he I had to become fish food. crying
            And such episodes can lead a great many. BATTLE IS NOT WEAPON WINS - FIGHT WINS A WARRIOR, and we had them, thank God - abound! fellow Honor and glory to them! hi

            On the picture of LaGG-3 of the 35th series with the tail number "6" of the yellow color of the famous ace of captain Gerasim Grigoriev, 178th IAP, autumn 1942
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 April 5 2018 14: 33
              +11
              KABEROV IGOR ALEXANDROVICH
              Kaberov won his first personal victory on Wednesday, October 10, 1941, shooting down the Yu-88 in the seventh (!) Sortie in a day. He managed to do this on the new LaGG-3 machine with tail number 13.
              On May 17, 1942, in the battle with the LaGGs of the 3rd Guards IAP in the Kronstadt area, pilots of Staff Staffel sergeant sergeant Gerhard Lautenshpager (31 victories) and Lieutenant Ossi Unterlerhner (27 victories) were shot down. And although the fighters of the senior lieutenants Kaberov and Kostylev got a lot from the cannons and machine guns of the Messerschmitts, the Baltic guards, and not their opponents, celebrated the victory.
              On January 19, 1943, for 15 minutes, Senior Lieutenant Kaberov on LaGG-3 alone repulsed the attacks of the Fw-190 link from I.JG54 and survived. Captain Tsapov and sergeant Shilkov, who came to the rescue, destroyed one “Focke-Wulf”, and then Lieutenant Walter Meyer (58 victories), who had been transferred shortly before from JG26 and made his first sortie on Fw-190, died.
              1. Proxima
                Proxima April 5 2018 16: 32
                +15
                Quote: hohol95
                ... moreover, Lieutenant Walter Mayer (58 victories), who had been transferred shortly before from JG26 and made his first sortie on Fw-190, died

                If someone does not know, we are talking about confrontation with the legendary 54th fighter squadron "Grünhertz" - "Green Heart" on the Leningrad and Volkhov fronts. It is indecently many experts of this squadron found their death in these places, and about the rank-and-file composition of the "Green Pops" - I generally keep quiet crying
                For example, such a fact: of the 120 pilots of the JG54 squadron that took off in the early days of the war with the USSR - until May 8, 1945 only 4 survived and accordingly, LaGG-3 made a good contribution to this "burial ground" fellow hi
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 April 5 2018 16: 38
                  +5
                  "Fun hunting in the East of Europe"
                  Valeria Dymich
                  On June 22, 1941, at one thirty minutes in the morning, Staffelkapitan 5 / JG54 Hubert Mutterich with a mug of steaming coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other approached the Messerschmitt of his deputy Joachim Wandel. “Don't be sad,“ Dwarf, ”he said to a thoughtful comrade. “The hunt will be fun!”

                  According to this article, 3 aces from JG10 are completed on LaGG-54 pilots.
                  1. Proxima
                    Proxima April 5 2018 19: 32
                    +7
                    Quote: hohol95
                    "Fun hunting in the East of Europe"
                    Valeria Dymich
                    “Don't be sad,“ Dwarf, ”he said to a thoughtful comrade. - The hunt will be fun! ”
                    According to this article, 3 aces from JG10 are completed on LaGG-54 pilots.

                    This article (Articles of this quality are published once a decade) a good example of how a hunter turns into a game. Dialectic however recourse
                    I allow myself an excerpt from this article (about continuity of generations):
                    "October 26, 1982 the 34th Squadron of fighter-bombers of Germany received the honorary name" Grunherz " drinks and on the sides of the Tornado shone the Green Hearts. Veterans of the Squadron, led by the legendary Commodore Hannes Trautloft, gathered for the holiday.

                    Surrounded by young pilots, they both had fun and were sad, recalling the comrades who died on the Eastern Front. And there was someone to remember: 416 Grunherz pilots did not return from sorties.

                    After sitting in the cockpits of modern airplanes, veterans compared them to the faithful Messerschmitts and Focke-Wulfs, 2135 (!!!) fellow of which, remained in the form of dural scrap in a vast space from Ladoga to Lviv. crying In short, the holiday was a success." good
                    If the "advanced" lovers of military history (who believe that we have filled up the enemy with corpses (planes)) read this and think a little - buoy is not bad hi
                    1. hohol95
                      hohol95 April 6 2018 08: 10
                      +3
                      AviaMaster Magazine Issues Nos. 1 and 2 for 2006.
                      Articles by Alexander Mardanov -
                      "Four write Two in the mind" and Eight write Two in the mind. "
                      Analysis of the actions of Soviet and German pilots in the North.
                      Description of the "exploits" and the fate of the notorious feldwebel Muller.
            2. Huumi
              Huumi 2 June 2018 20: 36
              0
              That's what is strange, on the site — I remember — who only of the former fighters were not asked — how the Lagg answer is one-weak-heavy-the first cars had powerful weapons but were ironed with an iron. And so they removed all the extra trunks immediately! They drag one Lagg on the trailer to the place - the airbag got into a rut and ..... In a place with a dutik, the whole ass came off the plane — we wondered what kind of plane this was, the ass fell off. These are the real words of the pilot. Heavy, not maneuverable with a weak dvigl on his head if he wasn’t losing to the Germans anymore, nobody really wanted to fly on it. And even if they didn’t drive wood about the delta there, it ended right away with the start of the war and made Lagg out of ordinary pine. weak motors, the yak could still fight on the horizon, but what kind of German, if he doesn’t down, will fight with you on the horizon, he’ll just go up
        2. Alekseev
          Alekseev April 9 2018 17: 02
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          This is rudeness.

          hi
          Ham! Ham! Ham! ... The boors, the bastards thought of themselves .... laughing
          But in fact, an incompetent and stupid story about the WWII, and about the problems of equipment and weapons is not uncommon on the vast Internet, and indeed, modern media.
          And with regards to Lugg-3, everything in the article is, in general, true. Not without flaws, but which military equipment had no flaws. The T-34, for example, didn’t? It’s not at all necessary to be a specialist tanker, it’s enough just to get into this car with five of us and ride a couple of kilometers along the “front line” to understand - there were, there were flaws in this very successful BTT model.
          As for the sayings, this is black military humor, and not a conclusion on the quality of military equipment.
          So about the legendary attack aircraft Il-2 there was a joke "cockpit armor, the rest is garbage," but nevertheless these aircraft were needed, as Stalin put it, "like air, like bread."
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 9 2018 20: 58
            +1
            hi
            Quote: Alekseev
            And with regards to Lugg-3, everything in the article, in general, is true

            It would be true, but not all "so straightforward" ... drinks
            1. Proxima
              Proxima April 9 2018 21: 48
              +1
              Quote: svp67
              hi
              Quote: Alekseev
              And with regards to Lugg-3, everything in the article, in general, is true

              It would be true, but not all "so straightforward" ... drinks

              And what? The title of the article is very successful, the emphasis is placed (if you do not quibble lol ) right. But here is the argument belay To praise the merits of a fighter, referring to the fact that Stalin didn’t do ... ak and Shakhurin, too, a fool .. that was not quite serious what , in my subjective opinion, of course hi
              1. svp67
                svp67 April 9 2018 22: 01
                +1
                Quote: Proxima
                To praise the merits of a fighter, referring to the fact that Stalin didn’t do ... ak and Shakhurin, too, a fool .. that was not quite serious

                I agree, especially considering that one “don’t do ... cancer,” the second one “don’t ... cancer,” he called “du ... cancer,” and repressed.
                The creation of LaGG was not something supernatural, just remember the English "Mosquito", but here we went our own way. We needed new planes and a lot, our industry was not able to work with such a mass of aluminum, but there were many craftsmen on wood. That came in handy. Remember the nickname of the first I-301 - the "piano", this clearly indicates which masters did it. But then again, the trouble is that there are a lot of craftsmen in the tree, but they know how to make pianos, it’s not very ... In this story I don’t understand how Stalin could have agreed to the plane, in which the manufacture of imported plasticizer occupied a large place, to create a "miracle tree" ... He rejected military developments for less.
                1. Proxima
                  Proxima April 10 2018 00: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Proxima
                  To praise the merits of a fighter, referring to the fact that Stalin didn’t do ... ak and Shakhurin, too, a fool .. that was not quite serious

                  I agree, especially considering that one “don’t do ... cancer,” the second one “don’t ... cancer,” he called “du ... cancer,” and repressed.

                  Stalin had some kind of hypertrophic attitude to the topic, if a person sits on the heels of another belay Maybe because he himself did not crawl out of the places "not so distant", instead of how to "hang around" like "normal" revolutionaries in Switzerland. As he said B.L. Vannikov, when he pulled him out of the Lubyanka (approximately): "Do not be offended, I was also in prison .." About times, about morals ..
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 April 10 2018 00: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Proxima
                    Stalin had some kind of hypertrophic attitude to the topic, if a person sits on the heels of another

                    But he didn’t put Yakovlev ... and of our aircraft designers, only he and Mikoyan can boast of this.
                  2. Peter Ivanov
                    Peter Ivanov April 12 2018 13: 15
                    0
                    To put it mildly, your logic is strange! Not knowing what the decision-making system in the USSR leadership of the pre-war period was like, blame everything on the Gulag! You are not from the anti-advisers for an hour?
                2. yehat
                  yehat April 10 2018 11: 46
                  +2
                  This logic in the article at the level of the idiot "icebreaker" Rezun
              2. Huumi
                Huumi 2 June 2018 20: 38
                0
                Here Shakhurin said to Stalin-you make us fly on coffins-Stalin already choked, here’s the answer for you is not a fool of an aviator
          2. FIFA from Cardiff
            FIFA from Cardiff April 20 2018 18: 01
            +1
            The author is largely right, but he himself did not understand why LaGG-3 was adopted. LaGG-3 was adopted for one simple reason: this is a TOTAL war mobilization plane, if the Germans get to the Volga and how to do it and the main thing IL-2, Yaki and more? And here LaGG-3 would become both a fighter and a light bomber and an attack aircraft, for any woodworking workshop could do it with the hands of women and children to make its hulls and wings. Suffice it to recall Germany arr. the end of 1944 and the beginning of 1945, the same problems forced the Germans to design all kinds of “national fighters” from plywood and sticks, in the case of LaGG-3 the plane was already ready for production, the technology and production were debugged, children's diseases were cured and quality problems were solved. For the rest, the author forgot to indicate the main thing - the last production LaGG-3 was made in the second half as early as 1944 and he actually fought even after May 9, 1945 in the Far East, where he successfully covered both our attack and landing operations and IL-2 assault strikes, in the list of victories of those pilots there were even novelties of the Japanese - their version of the FV-190 Hayate fighter on which the Mustangs and Hellkets were successfully burned on the Pacific Theater. They were smashed, but the old LaGG-3 could not be defeated
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 4 2018 19: 52
      +13
      Quote: MooH
      In general, everything is true

      WHAT IS TRUE?
      Let then expert Skomorokhov, explain why in our Air Force there was suddenly no place for the continuation of the I-16, the Polikarpov I-180, and especially the I-185, which was HEADED over all our fighters of that period. And which was much easier to put on the stream, since it was precisely the development of the donkey, but Polikarpov’s design bureau was greatly shortened and removed from the manufacturer’s factory? And why did the military themselves raise the question in 1942 about RESUMING the production of I-16 cannon series, instead of the same LAGG-3?
      LaGG has passed ALL stages of state testing. Which then, I note, for the loot did not pass. And it was accepted into service because in terms of its performance characteristics it was fully consistent with the tasks that were assigned to it in the Air Force.

      I-301 had enough shortcomings: heat in the cabin, poor forward and sideward viewing due to poor-quality glazing of the lantern, overheating of water and oil when climbing (in relation to heating of water and I-301 oil, all the same, to I- 26 was very far away), heavy loads on the handle from the ailerons and elevator, insufficient longitudinal stability, extreme loads on the landing gear during take-off, comments regarding the ease of operation of the fighter at field airfields, the “absence” of a landing light and a radio station.
      Despite all these shortcomings, the aircraft was accepted for serial production on July 29, 1940.

      In May 1941, the serial LaGG-3 first took off. Tests were conducted by pilots from the Air Force Research Institute in Chkalovskaya (Moscow Region). It turned out that the serial LaGG-3 are significantly inferior in their flight qualities to the I-301 prototype. If I-301 developed 515 km / h near the ground, then LaGG-3 barely gained speed of 498 km / h. At an altitude of 5000 meters, LaGG-3 developed only 575 km / h against 605 km / h with the I-301. The prototype climb rate reached 900 m / min, and for a serial aircraft it did not exceed 750 m / min.
      LaGG-3 of the 1st series very poorly obeyed the rudder. This drawback was partially eliminated by installing two compensators on the rudder - one on top and the other on the bottom. Compensators appeared shortly after the launch of the 1st series.
      The first pre-production LaGGi, built at factory No. 21, were equipped with a high radio mast located behind the cockpit and a short mast mounted on the keel. In the process of serial production, the aircraft structure was simplified - the long mast was shortened, and the short mast was removed altogether. Most LaGGs of the 1st series had a short mast, two rudder compensators and did not have a short mast on the keel. The long antenna reappeared on the cars of the 3rd (4th) series, and the antenna on the keel reappeared on the machines of the 23rd series.
      The first three production series did not differ much from each other (the exception was pre-production aircraft built on GAZ No. 21). Most of the cars in the first three series had an oval air intake, but on some aircraft the air intake was triangular in shape.
      In the spring of 1941, the re-equipment of the first fighter regiments began.
      The transition to new cars required time and great effort. Re-equipped regiments were stationed in the area of ​​the Soviet-Mongolian and Soviet-Chinese border. In August 1939, a cross-border skirmish occurred between the USSR and Japan on this section of the border. The situation in this area continued to be tense, so it was here that new fighters began to arrive.
      The development of the new materiel was very difficult, it was then that the second decoding of the LaGG abbreviation appeared - Lacquered Guaranteed Coffin. Pilots are accustomed to flying on unusually maneuverable and forgiving even gross errors I-153 biplanes. LaGG-3, on the contrary, did not forgive mistakes and, passing a sharp turn, strove to fall into a tailspin. In addition, LaGG-3 showed a tendency to cabry when approaching and reducing speed. The rearmament was delayed for the reason that many aircraft either had hidden defects or were damaged, as a result of which most of the aircraft were sent back to the plants for overhaul. It turned out that the aircraft’s hydraulic system had not yet been completed, landing gear often failed during landing, and the weapons were constantly jammed. All of the above problems could not be eliminated before the outbreak of hostilities.
      The shortcomings of the aircraft turned out to be so significant that on May 31, 1941, the People’s Commissariat of the Aviation Industry issued a special decree ordering to immediately eliminate the identified design flaws and increase aircraft production.

      Therefore, delta wood. Unlike Yak and MiG, where they even managed without it.
      I won’t reveal a big secret, but LaGG in the series, overwhelmingly, wasn’t made from delta wood, since the plasticizers for it were imported and were not supplied to us at the beginning of the war. Therefore, the weight of serial LaGGs was still increased and the designers in every possible way looked for ways to reduce it. One of the right decisions was the refusal to install a pair of 7,62 mm ShKASS, since 7,62 mm bullets were ineffective against modern enemy aircraft.
      Quote: MooH
      but why should the material be presented in the teenage language and in the simplified sentences?
      when someone considers himself a great specialist, he believes that you can be rude to others and openly spit on someone else's opinion.

      And about one "black page" in the history of LaGG. In 1942, one of our pilots in the Far Eastern Front flew to Manzhuria on it and landed there. The plane went to the Japanese, who studied it very carefully
      1. Mooh
        Mooh April 4 2018 21: 18
        +10
        I will try to answer your questions. Five minutes time, so without looking at the sources and at a gallop across Europe.
        1. Polikarpov. Not finished planes. One without a motor at all. Plus lost confidence in a series of accidents and disasters. This is normal. The opinion that the 180 and 185 were superior to other fighters of those years is nothing more than an assumption.
        2. LaGG went into the series is not fully brought up and not with its engine. Hence the problems with development. By the way, drill pilots didn’t really shine with qualifications. Still, the transition from a biplane with an open cockpit to a monoplane with a closed one is not very simple.
        3. The overload of serial samples and the rejection of delta wood in favor of the ordinary - your truth and trouble of domestic industry. Problems with being overweight weren’t possible except for Yakovlev. Accordingly, no one knows how much Polikarpov’s serial fighters would weigh.
        1. Sergey985
          Sergey985 April 4 2018 21: 48
          +4
          Yakovlev had the opposite problem, insufficient strength. The Yak-3 was so relieved that it was just a terrible accident. Very large losses, and with the death of the pilots.
          1. BV330
            BV330 April 5 2018 21: 06
            0
            Accident is more likely not from overweight, but for the most part from non-compliance with wing assembly technology. Flaking delamination = stall = disaster (.
            They didn’t like to dive for a long time, they could fall apart from exceeding the speed head (.
          2. yehat
            yehat April 10 2018 11: 56
            0
            Yak, like Zero, had significant restrictions on aggressive aerobatics
            for example, Bf-109 and Fw-190 could safely leave them for a dive, because Yak risked the belt behind them just to fall apart. Maneuvers with overloads close to 4g on the Yak-1 in 41 were recommended not to be done - all because part of the key strength elements were made of wood and thin for relief.
            Not a few Yak-1 pilots got rid of radio stations at the beginning of the war - they weighed a lot, and the quality of communication was practically nullified.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Tula gingerbread
            Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 14: 39
            +4
            That's it. I already said that according to I-180, there was a government decree to launch a fighter in series, an installation series of 10 aircraft was released and several times shown at the parade on Red Square. Another 100 vehicle sets were ready for assembly, but the plant was in no hurry , with manufacture, Polikarpov knocked at all levels, he met a blank wall.
            But the I-180 was ready for the series a year earlier than the Yak-1, MiG 1-3, LaGG-3 and they could have given the Air Force up to one and a half thousand units by the beginning of the war. And they would have managed to master them in the troops, especially since the development would not have caused difficulties, since this development of the I-16.This would certainly change the ratio in the air.
            Why the serial production of I-180 was disrupted, one can only guess, there are different versions.
            Of course, Shakhurin and Yakovlev were not fools, but nobody canceled personal reasons and preferences and intrigues.
            And in mind, of course, it was necessary to have a high-altitude fighter, lightweight with a liquid-cooled engine and an air-powered engine with powerful weapons.
            What were the I-180 and I-185.
            As for the accidents, Chkalov violated the flight mission and could have avoided the crash and landed a plane with a stalled engine on the planning, if it had been within the aerodrome, there was no difficulty for such an experienced pilot as Chkalov. Proshakov, he simply exceeded the limits. With Susie, there’s something else.
            But no one made any complaints to Polikarpov and the plane was not blamed, and therefore the government made a decision to launch it in series.
            And the last MiG-3 is Polikarpov’s machine, just look at its tail, this is the I-16 with Klimov’s engine.
            The drawings were handed over to Mikoyan when his group was separated from Polikarpov Design Bureau and organized an independent design bureau.
            It is unfortunate that these excellent I-180 and I-185 vehicles did not enter service with our Air Force.
        3. svp67
          svp67 April 5 2018 04: 54
          +7
          Quote: MooH
          One without a motor at all.

          There were motors. These motors were prepared and manufactured for the Su-2, nothing prevented them from being put on the I-18.
          Quote: MooH
          Polikarpov. Not finished planes.

          Quote: MooH
          LaGG went into a series of incomplete
          Both aircraft have the same lack of prosperity, but one had it several years earlier, this is about Polikarpov’s machines, and they could have completely eliminated it during this time. So is the MiG-1, it’s generally ALSO the Polikarpov’s car, which wasn’t finished ... but they took it and brought it when it became an MiG from I.
          Quote: MooH
          The opinion that the 180 and 185 were superior to other fighters of those years is nothing more than an assumption.

          Sorry, but even the fact that the Polikarpov machine had THREE guns, everything else was already something, especially remembering the year of its appearance. By the way, in a heavier version, Polikarpov offered FIVE guns ...
          Quote: MooH
          The overload of serial samples and the abandonment of delta wood in favor of the ordinary - your truth and misfortune of domestic industry. Problems with being overweight weren’t possible except for Yakovlev. Accordingly, no one knows how much Polikarpov’s serial fighters would weigh.

          That's what, and Polikarpov’s weight culture was beyond praise. Its gliders were lighter, similar to other design bureaus, and this was achieved not at the expense of strength, as happened with Yakovlev. Moreover, the aircraft of the I-18 series were a direct continuation of the I-16, which allowed its manufacturing enterprises to switch to their production more smoothly and organically
          1. BV330
            BV330 April 5 2018 05: 37
            +4
            I will support, by many thoughts I come to the conclusion that, in general, fussing with LaGG and Yak was in vain. The Polikarpov I-180s and later I-185s and MiGs in two versions - with the M-105 engine, further the M-106 as an ordinary front-line vehicle, and with the AM-35, -37 as a higher-rise one would completely cover all the needs of the front.
            I will immediately sign for opponents - the MiG-1 weighed 3100 kg with the AM-35A. Replacing it with the M-105 immediately -250 kg, you can additionally reduce the weight on the chassis, oil coolers, engine mounts and other little things. We get 2750-2800kg by adding a ShVAK gun and changing a pair of cabinets to the second BS, let 2830-2880kg, which will also increase the main tank by a hundred liters.
            With this engine, the MiG would have definitely accelerated to 585-590km / h. Replacing 105 by 106 would have been easier than on YAKs due to the initial design of the machine, which allows different motors. And the MiG would have flown already in 1942 for 600 km / h, counted on an equal footing with 109F.
            And technologically that the first, that the second were much better and Lavochkin’s machines, and even more so Yakovlev.
            1. svp67
              svp67 April 5 2018 12: 18
              +1
              Quote: BV330
              I will support, by many thoughts I come to the conclusion that in general fuss with LaGG and Yak

              No. Of course, the USSR also needed a light fighter with a water-cooling engine. And here I am more inclined to Yak.
              The Polikarpov I-180s and later I-185s and MiGs in two versions - with the M-105 engine, further the M-106 as an ordinary front-line vehicle, and with the AM-35, -37 as a higher-rise one would completely cover all the needs of the front.
              But for this it was necessary that Polikarpov’s design bureau would not be RIPPED. Like the Tupolev Design Bureau. By the way, it’s worth remembering that our best bomber of that time was precisely the Tupolev Tu-2.
              1. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 14: 48
                +2
                Precisely, Polikarpov’s design bureau was exactly what was defeated. As for the light fighter with a liquid-cooled engine, Polikarpov could have gotten ahead of everyone if he had brought to mind the I-17, which everyone somehow forgot about.
                And he already flew with an engine of 600 hp. gave out 500 km.ch.
                Put on it VK-105 and I think the Yak-1 is hardly born at all. He was becoming unnecessary. Minor flaws of the I-17 as a cramped cabin, etc. were completely removable.
                But as far as I know, the Air Force did not show interest in the car at that time and Polikarpov stopped working on it.
                KB and so it was overloaded and work on the I-180 and VIT-2 and high-altitude fighters.
                I think the intrigue in the aviation industry played a fatal role in the I-180.
                If Chkalov were alive, he would push through the I-180, would not let him die.
                But alas, you won’t turn back time and you won’t rewrite history.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 April 5 2018 14: 52
                  +1
                  Quote: Tula gingerbread
                  could get ahead of everyone if he brought to mind the I-17, which somehow everyone forgot.
                  And he already flew with an engine of 600 hp. gave out 500 km.ch.

                  Yes, but unfortunately not all pilots could fit into it ... it was very narrow. All in the name of speed.
                  1. Tula gingerbread
                    Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 15: 48
                    +1
                    I said this, this flaw was easily remedied. And the VK-105 engine would add speed. With the weight culture of Polikarpov and his engineering gift, I think I would catch up to 600.
          2. DimerVladimer
            DimerVladimer April 5 2018 11: 13
            +4
            Quote: svp67
            That's what, and Polikarpov’s weight culture was beyond praise. Its gliders were lighter, similar to other design bureaus, and this was achieved not at the expense of strength, as happened with Yakovlev. Moreover, the aircraft of the I-18 series were a direct continuation of the I-16, which allowed its manufacturing enterprises to switch to their production more smoothly and organically


            I completely agree, in comparison with the LaGG / La-5 irons of Polikarpov’s machine, the I-18 series were much more advanced and more technological, which made them easier, faster, cheaper.
            A big mistake of Stalin, which cost the lives of many fighters, that Polikarpov’s car was pushed back after the death of Chkalov.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 5 2018 11: 23
              +10
              Quote: DimerVladimer
              I completely agree, in comparison with the LaGG / La-5 irons of Polikarpov’s machine, the I-18 series were much more advanced and more technological, which made them easier, faster, cheaper.

              It is only necessary to add - in peacetime and in the presence of a finished motor.
              But just such a motor in peacetime was not. Moreover, the Air Force had the sad experience of the M-88, when the engine that had already been put into service was sent for refinement for six months, which frustrated all plans for the production of DB-3F. If serial engines throw such a thing out, then laying down machines with experimental engines in the plan for re-equipping them is similar to death.
              And then the war began. And in war, the main factor is the timing of production in a series. The front cannot wait. Therefore, the modification of a production car during the war is preferable to a completely new design. Moreover, as it turned out, the separation of the experimental I-185 from La-5 is within the range of TTX decrease during the transition to the series.
              In addition, only one aluminum plant remained in the USSR.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker April 5 2018 11: 35
                +3
                Quote: Alexey RA
                But just such a motor in peacetime was not. Moreover, the Air Force had the sad experience of the M-88, when the engine that had already been put into service was sent for refinement for six months, which frustrated all plans for the production of DB-3F. If serial engines throw such a thing out, then laying down machines with experimental engines in the plan for re-equipping them is similar to death.

                Soloviev Pavel Aleksandrovich was born on June 26 of 1917 of the year in the village of Alekino in the Kineshem district of the Ivanovo Region in a peasant family. In the 1934 year after graduating from the 9 classes, he entered the Rybinsk Aviation Institute named after S. Ordzhonikidze, who graduated with honors in the specialty "Aircraft Engines".
                On a ticket to the USSR Aviation Industry Commissariat, in April 1940, P. Solovyov arrived in Perm OKB-19 (now Aviadvigatel OJSC), where until 1942 he worked as a designer, from 1942 to 1944 - the head of the design team, from 1944 to 1948 the year lead designer. In 1948, at the suggestion of the Chief Designer of OKB-19, A.D. Shvetsov and with the consent of I.V. Stalin, Pavel Alexandrovich Solovyov, was appointed deputy chief designer. In 1953, after the death of A.D. Shvetsov, he became the Chief Designer of the Design Bureau -19.

                According to A. Yakovlev in his book, “The Purpose of Life,” it was planned to put Soloviev’s engines on the promising front-line Tu-2 bomber.
                But it did not grow together .... I had to put ASH-82FN.
                1. BV330
                  BV330 April 5 2018 21: 35
                  +3
                  What Solovyov? Tu-2 was planned under the AM-37 or M-120. The experimental car "103" with 37 engines flew beautifully, developed far beyond 600 km / h, which combined with an altitude of 8 km provided almost complete invulnerability for 1941-42.
                  When the release of all variants of the Mikulinsky engines except the low-altitude AM-38 under IL-2 was hacked, the Tupolev masterpiece was left without a motor. So I had to choose the best of the worst, that is, the M-82. Just think, they lost a hundred kilometers per hour of speed and a kilometer and a half altitude). negative
              2. DimerVladimer
                DimerVladimer April 5 2018 12: 48
                +6
                Quote: Alexey RA
                But just such a motor in peacetime was not. Moreover, the Air Force had the sad experience of the M-88, when the engine that had already been put into service was sent for refinement for six months, which frustrated all plans for the production of DB-3F. If serial engines throw such a thing out, then laying down machines with experimental engines in the plan for re-equipping them is similar to death.

                Of course, LaGG-3 was riveted in 1944 only because it was already in the series - the pilots became hostage to the 1939 I-180 erroneous decision.

                And I also remind you that with the M-82A engine, the I-185 had comparable characteristics with the La-5F with the M-82F engine (that is, constantly in afterburner mode) ..
                The culture of the airframe and aerodynamics, gave the I-185 striking advantages over the La-5. A shorter fuselage - less inertia when moving into horizontal and vertical maneuvers.
                1. BV330
                  BV330 April 5 2018 15: 36
                  +3
                  And even rather between the LA-5F and -FN. At the very first M-82A. With a normal ASH-82F, this bird would certainly fly no worse than the LA-7 in the series (i.e. 656km / h). Only a couple of years earlier.
                  But to the NKAP, “saving on matches” turned out to be more important than thousands of pilots' lives, and Polikarpov’s cars were stolen ((.
                  1. DimerVladimer
                    DimerVladimer April 6 2018 09: 19
                    +3
                    Quote: BV330
                    And even rather between the LA-5F and -FN. At the very first M-82A. With a normal ASH-82F, this bird would certainly fly no worse than the LA-7 in the series (i.e. 656km / h). Only a couple of years earlier.
                    But to the NKAP, “saving on matches” turned out to be more important than thousands of pilots' lives, and Polikarpov’s cars were stolen ((.


                    Your truth - people in that fierce war were not cherished.
                  2. doktorkurgan
                    doktorkurgan April 6 2018 15: 15
                    +1
                    At ViF there was a discussion about the prospects of I-185 (the page, unfortunately, has dried out). So here, there was an interesting quote about the military tests:
                    When Mikhail Bykov published only his first book about Soviet aces, I naturally looked at it very carefully. Including in relation to the pilots of the 728th IAP. In general, at the next meeting, I drove up to Mikhail with a question about the military tests of I-185.
                    Of course, it’s a long time ago and I won’t be able to accurately reproduce the conversation. But I remember very well how, to my question, "How many did they fly?" Mikhail answered in a frankly sad voice, “Why could they fly on non-serial cars with non-serial engines?! ..". Then he called the number of flight hours per month. Either 6, or 7 ... I remember that the number was unique. But then I still asked him: "Is this for every fighter? ..". The answer simply killed me: "Only within a month ...".
                    And what series can there be? ..
            2. hohol95
              hohol95 April 5 2018 11: 43
              +1

              Anyhow yes ...
              1. DimerVladimer
                DimerVladimer April 5 2018 13: 01
                +1
                Quote: hohol95
                Anyhow yes.


                The experience was not enough, designed on a hunch - especially engines, because practical thermodynamics was in its infancy.
                They took an imported engine, raised the compression ratio, boost pressure, bored pistons, injected more fuel - forced it until the engine was able to show the resource for at least a couple of tens of hours.
                And the eternal time pressure over time - the eternal race with scarce resources and the material base of design bureaus - these are the results.
                1. 4thParasinok
                  4thParasinok April 5 2018 15: 35
                  0
                  Quote: DimerVladimer
                  forced until the engine was able to show the resource for at least a couple of dozen hours.

                  a mandatory requirement for production was a resource of 100 hours ...
            3. svp67
              svp67 April 5 2018 12: 22
              +2
              Quote: DimerVladimer
              that Polikarpov’s car was pushed back after the death of Chkalov.

              After the death of T.P. Susie, the co-pilot of this machine.
              1. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 14: 55
                +3
                With all due respect to you and others who write about the I-180 and I-185.
                NOT PUSHED, the government’s decision to launch the I-180 in a series was made.
                An installation series of 10 cars was released, but why and who ignored the government decree and prevented the serial production of I-180, this is an interesting question.
                Polikarpov in notes in the NKAP said that it was sabotaged by the director of the aircraft factory, who drove the plan for the production of I-16, not only the latest modifications, but also earlier ones that could be removed from production, and the line should be given for the production of I-180 .
                In general, the story is dark. Polikarpov did not have such powerful patrons as Yakovlev or Mikoyan; there was no one to help him, he could get things off the ground.
                1. BV330
                  BV330 April 5 2018 15: 45
                  +4
                  The plant’s management frankly sabotaged the construction of the I-180 series, having quietly directed all their efforts to the experimental vehicle of “their” I-21 Pashinin. (by the number of the plant in Gorky). And in the harsh Stalinist era, one and a half years no one could do anything, three times haha ​​(.
                  Moreover, technologically, the I-180 was completely consistent with the I-16, and already at the end of 1940 the plant had to develop LaGG, which was much further from the I-16. They mastered nothing, it really flew worse than 180, but the wreckers from the NKAP were closer to the heart (.
                  1. Tula gingerbread
                    Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 15: 50
                    +2
                    True, I forgot to mention Pashinin.
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 April 5 2018 16: 30
                    +1
                    Yes, at least ten HA ... HA.
                    You take an interest in what the GAZ plant management “received” for not putting the LB-62 armored car into production ...
                    On April 1, 1941, the People’s Commissar of Defense S. Tymoshenko sent a letter to the chairman of the Defense Committee of the USSR SNK K. Voroshilov with the following content:
                    "According to the Decree of the USSR KO of 4.5.40, No. 191 cc, the Molotov Plant (GAZ) in January 1941 produced 2 prototypes of a light armored car on a GAZ-62 chassis, a two-axle with all driving wheels and according to the order of the NKO - NKSM in the region Gorky conducted landfill tests in February 1941. By design of the hull, chassis, armor and patency, the light armored car on the GAZ-62 chassis is a very modern armored car, and much better than not only the light BA-20, but also the average BA-10, consisting of currently in service with the Red Army.
                    The turret and armament on the GAZ-62 armored car are unified with the T-40 tank. The disadvantages of the machine, found in the tests, may well be eliminated by the plant in the process of preparing the production. Currently produced light armored vehicle BA-20 on the M-1 chassis does not meet the modern requirements of the Red Army.
                    I consider it necessary to immediately begin preparations for the production of this machine at the Molotov automobile plant and in the next 2-3 months to receive a batch of armored vehicles for military tests.
                    Despite the obvious advantages of this armored car and its importance for the Red Army, the People's Commissariat for Transport and Transport did not approve the report of the testing commission and instructed the plant to stop further work on the armored car.
                    Thus, the delay with the release of armored vehicles with all the leading axes will disrupt the armament of the armored units with combat wheeled vehicles with increased cross-country ability. I present the draft Resolution of the CO, I await your decision.
                    Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Timoshenko. "
                    The leadership of the People's Commissariat for Transport and the GAZ Directorate opposed this in every possible way, motivating them to be unprepared for the production of an all-wheel drive chassis GAZ-62.
                    1. BV330
                      BV330 April 5 2018 21: 24
                      +2
                      So I write with bitter irony that for someone it was very harsh, and a bunch of real pests settled in high posts, dismissed the launch of a series of modern technology, motivating it with unnecessary complexity, although for our opponents it was already passed the level, and they didn’t blow into the mustache, and did not bear any responsibility ((.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 April 6 2018 11: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: BV330
                        dismissed launching into a series of modern technology, motivating it with excessive complexity, although for our opponents it was already a level passed,
                        - you don’t confuse us with our opponents; it was THEM at them “BMW”, and not at US. We have not reached their level of production culture
                2. svp67
                  svp67 April 6 2018 02: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: Tula gingerbread
                  but why and who ignored the government decree and prevented the serial production of I-180, this is an interesting question.

                  Do you believe that at that time it was possible JUST SO, without consequences?
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 April 6 2018 08: 41
                    0
                    And what punishments did the GAZ directorate and the leadership of the People's Commissariat for Transport and Media for not setting up the LB-62 armored car?
                  2. Tula gingerbread
                    Tula gingerbread April 6 2018 13: 35
                    0
                    Perhaps there are many examples.
              2. 4thParasinok
                4thParasinok April 5 2018 15: 45
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: DimerVladimer
                that Polikarpov’s car was pushed back after the death of Chkalov.
                After the death of T.P. Susie, the co-pilot of this machine.

                This is the measure of your knowledge ...
                Chkalov died on December 15, 1938 during the first test flight on a new I-180 fighter at the Central Airfield.

                The flight was prepared in a hurry to catch up to the end of the year. The release of the aircraft to the airfield was scheduled for November 7, November 15, November 25 ... December 2, 190 defects were identified on the assembled car. N.N. Polikarpov protested against an unnecessary race during the preparation of the I-180 for the first flight, in view of which he was removed from these works.
                After the death of Chkalov, a number of leaders of the aircraft factory involved in the organization of this flight were arrested. They were sentenced to long terms of imprisonment for the release of an airplane in flight with numerous malfunctions, which led to the death of the pilot
                The death of Susie put an end to the plane.
                In July 1940, due to defects in operation, the M-88 engine was discontinued. In this regard, on August 13, flights to the I-180 were banned and its serial construction was stopped. By December, the engine was finished and the production of I-180 resumed, but was immediately stopped.
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 15: 54
                  0
                  And here the question arises - who gave the command to stop the renewed release of I-180.
                  1. 4thParasinok
                    4thParasinok April 5 2018 15: 59
                    +1
                    the engine periodically wedged during the flight and did not always succeed in starting up again, therefore, they stopped mass production until the problem was fixed, but I don’t remember exactly who (this fact was a doc. film about Polikarpov’s planes, the surname was called, but I don’t remember), and even In this case, it does not matter ..
        4. caiman
          caiman April 5 2018 11: 21
          +1
          about your written phrase, that the i185 was much better in terms of performance than serial machines, this is just an assumption, this is not true, several i-185s passed front-line tests, participated in air battles, (exclusively over our territory), for the entire duration of the tests not a single machine was lost, and the pilots recommended to drive this car to the series as soon as possible, it surpassed all German aircraft in 1942, and then the ME109G2 and FV-190 were on the eastern front, all this is openly respected,
        5. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 14: 22
          +4
          Absolute NOT knowledge of the subject. The I-180 was LAUNCHED in a series and the installation series was released - 10 cars. The plane was demonstrated at the May Day parade on Red Square. The plant had another 100 car kits for assembly. Polikarpov repeatedly appealed to the People's Commissariat (the same Yakovlev) to ignore the management of the I-180 production plant. Like a wall deaf.
          The government’s decree to launch the I-180 in a series was ignored.
          A government decree to launch the aircraft in a series was issued.
          The aircraft had LESS disadvantages than the Yak-1. And the Yak-1 was more crude than the I-180 and there were accidents, remember Piontkovsky, on whom Yakovlev fell, an accident.
          And that Yakovlev acted meanly when, in his book, The Purpose of Life, he doused Polikarpov with mud ... such as "he was exhausted and could not offer anything to the country in the difficult pre-war period."
          It seems that Yakovlev himself really wanted to become the "king of fighters."
          I-185, a pair of aircraft in the 42nd passed military tests on the Kalinin Front, you can read the pilot reports.
          Conclusion - the fighter exceeded in all respects all Soviet and foreign fighters of that time.
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 5 2018 14: 57
            +2
            Quote: Tula gingerbread
            It seems that Yakovlev himself really wanted to become the "king of fighters."

            And not only them, it is enough to remember his attempt to shove his Yak-2 .... He wanted to become the “king of the bombers”. And how he treated his competitors ... The story of how he pushed Lavochkin out of his factory is known to everyone, but there is still a story how he pushed Sukhoi from the Novosibirsk plant after the war ....
            1. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread April 5 2018 15: 59
              +1
              If this is not gossip, then there was the story of Pokryshkin, who came from the front to Lavochkin in order to get La-7 for his division.
              Yakovlev offered his Yak-3, Pokryshkin refused, explaining that his pilots did not really want to fight on it, to which Yakovlev rudely answered him that the pilots in Pokryshkin’s division simply did not know how to fly.
              This is where it was full of Heroes of the Soviet Union. In general, they quarreled completely and right, and Yakovlev cut off the delivery of La-7 to Pokryshkin’s division.
              Perhaps this is a legend, but considering what you wrote, it could well be.
              But Polikarpov Yakovlev can not be forgiven.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker April 5 2018 16: 07
                +2
                Quote: Tula gingerbread
                If it's not gossip

                Gossip.
                Quote: Tula gingerbread
                Yakovlev cut off the supply of La-7 to Pokryshkin’s division.

                Who would let him? laughing
                You take an interest in what Pokryshkin was flying at that time.
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread April 6 2018 13: 39
                  0
                  Well gossip, so gossip. I do not argue.
              2. BV330
                BV330 April 5 2018 21: 14
                +1
                IMHO more prosaic - during a flight on La-7 one of the pilots and friends of Pokryshkin crashed to death. Here he scribbled and stopped retraining on the Bench, where his fighters got used to the Cobras with a bow stance.
                They were skeptical of YaKs because of the fact that they often flew over the front line, mastered free hunting, and YaKs had very little fuel, equipment was poorer and weapons were the weakest of all for 1944.
                But Yakovlev did not remain in debt, and called the refuseniks “shit, not Stalin's falcons” ((.
          2. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok April 5 2018 15: 47
            0
            Quote: Tula gingerbread
            The aircraft had LESS disadvantages than the Yak-1. And the Yak-1 was more crude than the I-180 and there were accidents, remember Piontkovsky, on whom Yakovlev fell, an accident.

            In July 1940, due to defects in operation, the M-88 engine was discontinued. In this regard, on August 13, flights to the I-180 were banned and its serial construction was stopped. By December, the engine was finished and the production of I-180 resumed, but was immediately stopped.
            ...
        6. BAI
          BAI April 5 2018 15: 07
          +3
          Two experimental vehicles were transferred for military tests to the Kalinin Front. Military pilots noted that the new fighters had greater stability in flight, forgave piloting errors during takeoff and landing, the pilot technique is simple and accessible to pilots below average qualifications. These machines were characterized by high maneuverability on the verticals and ease in performing aerobatics. Fighters quickly developed maximum horizontal speed, which made them very different from LaGG-3, La-5 and Yak aircraft for the better. Thus, the I-185 met all the requirements for conducting combat work, and surpassed all serial aircraft, both Soviet and Western countries, in flight performance.

          Option I-185M-82A was recommended for implementation in mass production. .

          However:
          1.
          duralumin deficit affected

          2. Start
          in April 1942, mass production of the all-wooden La-5 fighter with the same engine

          3. In my opinion, the most important is the manufacturability of production. The decisive factor (it seems to me) was labor. Those. - It is better to build 2 La-5 than 1 I-185., and the requirements for the qualifications of workers are lower. This is like the production of the T-34 and Panther.
          1. BV330
            BV330 April 5 2018 15: 57
            +3
            "... 3. In my opinion, the most important is the manufacturability of production. Labor costs were the decisive factor (it seems to me). That is, it is better to build 2 La-5 than 1 I-185., And the requirements for the qualification of workers are lower It’s like the production of the T-34 and Panther. "

            The manufacturability of the I-185 was close to the MiG-1 and -3. At equal times, they were produced many times more than both LaGGs and Yakovs. IMHO that says it all.
            And trembling for a couple of hundred kg of duralumin on a beautiful fighter, while at the same time producing hundreds and thousands of bombers that suffer heavy losses without a full-fledged "umbrella" does not mean good planning for sure (.
            By the way, at the same time, we first launch the production of 13-ton luminescent TU-2 in Omsk, then we cancel and give the plant to Yak-9. Here it is metal, from one conditional Tu it will be enough for 2 squadrons of I-185 of mixed design). But where there. Sadness.
          2. DimerVladimer
            DimerVladimer April 6 2018 11: 06
            +4
            Quote: BAI
            3. In my opinion, the most important is the manufacturability of production. The decisive factor (it seems to me) was labor. Those. - It is better to build 2 La-5 than 1 I-185., and the requirements for the qualifications of workers are lower. This is like the production of the T-34 and Panther.


            By the end of 1943, the deficit with aluminum was covered by Lend-Lease supplies. La-7 is a variant of La-5 with a partial replacement of wooden elements with steel and aluminum.

            But the aerodynamics of the fuselage - the conjugation of a star-shaped engine with the Lagg-3 fuselage (under the V-shaped) - were only partially improved.
            You can’t stop it here - the I-185, originally created as a star-shaped motor, had less resistance and better flow than the La-5 and La-7
        7. mkpda
          mkpda April 9 2018 17: 58
          0
          As for the increase in the weight of serial LaGG-3 in relation to the I-301, this is due to the requirements of the military to increase the flight range. For this, additional tanks were installed and flight data for the 1st series is indicated with an increased fuel supply on board in comparison with the I-301.
          By the way, with more weight, the reference LaGG-3 showed a greater maximum horizontal speed than the Yak-1 of the same release time.
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 9 2018 20: 59
            0
            Quote: mkpda
            reference LaGG-3 showed a large maximum

            It is enough to recall how they were rubbed for this .... in the combat units, these techniques were definitely not involved.
            1. mkpda
              mkpda April 10 2018 16: 27
              +1
              We are talking about the reference LaGG-3 and Yak-1, released at the same time and equally prepared for testing. In combat units they often flew with open cockpits; therefore, the realities of war have nothing to do with control data.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel April 5 2018 09: 19
        +1
        "... heavy loads on the handle of the ailerons and elevator ..."
        Are ailerons not controlled by pedals?
        1. caiman
          caiman April 5 2018 11: 32
          +2
          no respected))))), the pedals are controlled by the PH, DIRECTOR))
      3. Huumi
        Huumi 2 June 2018 20: 45
        0
        And what did the Japanese say?
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ April 4 2018 22: 35
      +2
      Well this is Skomorokhov.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 6 2018 02: 08
        +1
        Quote: verner1967
        Was Shakhurin an idiot? Maybe he wasn’t, but .... he’s still repressed.

        In particular, for the high accident rate of Yakovlev’s aircraft, which fell apart in the air, during vigorous maneuvers. And it turns out that in peacetime, pilots who went through the war and have rich experience were killed. But whose fault was greater, the designer or the people's commissar .... But it turned out to be right, the one who was closer to the Leader
    6. Sergey Volkov
      Sergey Volkov April 6 2018 14: 29
      0
      filed with the fact that most of them are now reading.
      I can add from myself that the majority of the current generation are stupid. they have a lot of that.
  3. Strashila
    Strashila April 4 2018 15: 23
    +3
    “Aerocobra in the United States was also considered a complete crap” ... there is such a thing, it was only thanks to this that it appeared in the USSR ... as for “LaGG-3 had to be applied in accordance with the developed concept. Alas, it didn’t work out.”. .. so it was not only this machine that was concerned ... PE-2s were used for the same long time only from horizontal flight and shied away from fighters until they worked out their application tactics.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 4 2018 16: 27
      +5
      Quote: Strashila
      “Aerocobra in the United States was also considered a complete crap” ... there is such a thing, only because of this it appeared in the USSR ...

      The USSR was generally the only country where pilots liked the “aerocobras”. The same British spat on the P-400 so that they canceled the supply contract - and the unredeemed export "aero cobras" as a result were shoved anywhere. Some of the cars even got to Guadalcanal.
      Quote: Strashila
      The PE-2s were used for the same long time only from horizontal flight and shied away from fighters until the tactics of application worked out.

      It's not about tactics, but about training pilots. On average, the Pe-2 crew simply did not know how to bomb from a dive. In schools, this was also taught extremely poorly: Rakov wrote that in the first flight of the Niobe beginners, all dive bombers managed to miss on a fixed ship.
      On July 12, 30 Pe-2 dive bombers from the 12th Guards Dive-Bomber Regiment under the command of Hero of the Soviet Union Guard Colonel V.I. Rakov struck the ship. They were covered by 24 Yak-9 fighters. Dive bombers dropped about 70 FAB-500 and FAB-100 bombs onto the ship. However, none of them reached the goal. Rakov explained this failure with a weak fighter cover and poor preparation of the pilots: mainly a new replenishment took part in the strike.
      1. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok April 5 2018 15: 54
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The USSR was generally the only country where pilots liked the “aerocobras”. The same British spat on the P-400 so that they canceled the supply contract - and the unredeemed export "aero cobras" as a result were shoved anywhere.
        According to the recollections of our pilots, they did not follow the instructions of the plant, which always required, besides the battle, to maintain the minimum engine speed to increase engine life, and the Americans and the Angles always carried out this point, and therefore their aircraft had too little acceleration at the beginning of the battle
        1. Huumi
          Huumi 2 June 2018 20: 49
          0
          There, according to the pilot, there were three dvigla modes — if, as the pilot said, we would fly as low as we were told, I wouldn’t talk to you right now, I’ve cut an extreme and full lead. And the p-39 was generally phlegmatic, it had to be cracked -then he lane. Therefore, Pokryshkin zoomed on it-the dive speed was such that he caught up with the fokers. hit-left-all. if Pokryshkin fought in maneuver battles ... Our pilots called the cobra-iron
  4. Blue fox
    Blue fox April 4 2018 15: 26
    +10
    Good article, emotional, but good. "Road spoon to dinner" (c) No wonder it is said so. There was a concept for the use of the Air Force, under which aircraft were designed and built from what was at the moment with an eye to modernization. Although something didn’t work somewhere, however, on the whole, after a year or two of war, excellent machines appeared on the basis of the same MiGs, Yaks and LaGGs from the pre-war ideas, and LaGG-3 was not a “whipping boy” at the beginning of the war technical point of view. But with the training of pilots and tactics of application, yes, they didn’t have time, but in the end they managed to do it.
    And now there are enough "iksperds" on specialized and non-core sites and forums, and articles in Yandex Zen, in general, "tear your eyes out."
    1. avt
      avt April 4 2018 16: 41
      +7
      Quote: Blue Fox
      Good article, emotional, but good.

      wassat bully Deflection counted! bully
      But the common misfortune is to blame: in the USSR, aircraft were built under engines. Alas.
      Yeah ... ah ...? And where in the world was different ??
      And in the air defense of Moscow, Leningrad, and in general, as a LaGG-3 air defense fighter, he entered very well.
      He went in ... where there was no fighter cover and those who didn’t come in. For example, it was proposed to make an air defense fighter based on the Il-2 with an index I. There, the Lizovskie R-40s were also written off in the air defense, when they could no longer compete with the new Bf modifications .
      Quote: Alexey RA
      No. MiG-1 and MiG-3 were designed as high-speed fighters.

      And yet still high-rise.
    2. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel April 5 2018 09: 33
      +5
      By the way, according to the memoirs of expert Herman Graf, he had to fight with LAGG-3 in 1941 as the most difficult match for the whole war. The fight ended in a draw, but after analyzing he admitted to himself that if the Russian had the same “Messerschmitt”, the result would be sad.
  5. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 4 2018 15: 55
    +2
    MiG - high-altitude fighter-interceptor.

    No. MiG-1 and MiG-3 were designed as high-speed fighters. Just to ensure high speed, the designers took the most powerful Soviet engine - AM-35A. And formally the task was completed: the MiG-3 became the fastest of the pre-war new fighters, accelerating right up to 610 km / h. True, he did it only at an altitude of 7 km. smile
    On the other hand, the choice of AM-35 in the bud killed the possibility of arming the machine with a motor gun.
    By the way, the first recommendations for fighting at high altitudes for the MiG-3 are dated ... 1943.
    1. dgonni
      dgonni April 4 2018 17: 33
      +1
      No Mi-1/3 was designed just like high-altitude fighters. AM-35A was in fact taken temporarily, because it was planned AM-37. And if 2 designers had not fallen out, then by the end of the AM-37 it would probably have been in the series. And 1400 at an altitude of 5-6 km is not the same as 1200 with the same mass.
      1. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin April 4 2018 18: 15
        0
        Quote: dgonni
        No Mi-1/3 was designed just like high-altitude fighters. AM-35A was in fact taken temporarily, because it was planned AM-37. And if 2 designers had not fallen out, then by the end of the AM-37 it would probably have been in the series. And 1400 at an altitude of 5-6 km is not the same as 1200 with the same mass.


        Who quarreled with whom? If Mikoyan with Gurevich, then where does the Mikulinsky AM-37?
        1. dgonni
          dgonni April 5 2018 08: 32
          0
          Just Mikoyan and Mikulin quarreled!
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 4 2018 18: 40
        +1
        As the uv. D. Shein:
        Documents of that time, in which the MiG-3 would be called a "high-altitude fighter," are not available in scientific circulation. But the documents in which the MiG-3 is called a high-speed fighter are most present.
        No special instructions prescribing the conduct of the battle at high altitude were not given when adopting the MiG-3. Only in the Manual "Air combat with fighters, especially combat with them" of 1943, in the section "Features of the battle of different types of our fighter aircraft with Bf.109" (emphasized by me) it is indicated: "MiG-Z is good for combat at high altitude ; the higher, the more favorable the conditions for the MiG-Z battle. If necessary, fight at medium altitudes, where the maneuverability of the MiG-Z is significantly impaired, you must have cover from above and use every convenient moment to climb in battle. " No further indications of the "altitude" of the MiG-3 are known.

        Given the fact that the MiG-1 and MiG-3 were equipped with IAP mixed air divisions of army submission, designed to work on the battlefield and in the immediate rear (of their own and the enemy) - this is still an ordinary high-speed fighter. Like LaGG or Yak.
      3. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 05: 44
        +1
        Who was standing on whom? Two designers worked hand in hand for about 30 years, until death did not part.
        AM-37 from AM-35A is distinguished by and large air-to-air intercooler). Gave + 50ls in all modes and + 200 meters altitude. 1400 - take-off power (for 35A -1350ls)
        At an altitude of 1250 5,7 - 6,2 km.
    2. Amurets
      Amurets April 5 2018 00: 30
      +1
      Quote: Alexey RA
      No. MiG-1 and MiG-3 were designed as high-speed fighters. Just to ensure high speed, the designers took the most powerful Soviet engine - AM-35A. And formally the task was completed: the MiG-3 became the fastest of the pre-war new fighters, accelerating right up to 610 km / h. True, he did it only at an altitude of 7 km.

      I completely agree. Failures with the M-106 and AM-37 engines hit the pilot aircraft industry.
      Relying on the quite successful results of the creation and introduction of the AM-34 (AM-34FRN) engine into the series, in 1938 the design team of A.A. Mikulin developed even more powerful engine options (AM-35 and AM-35A). The AM-1939 motor was the first to pass state tests in April 35, which was originally intended for installation on TB-7 aircraft instead of AM-34FRNV. The design height of the AM-35 was increased to 4500 m, the rated power at this height was up to 1200 hp.
      To obtain great power and altitude, A.A. Mikulin used a supercharger with a very high boost (35 mm Hg) on ​​the AM-1040A. Since the spring of 1941, the serial TB-7s began to be equipped with AM-35A (along with the M-40 and M-30 diesels).
      AM-35A engines were also installed on experimental fighters I-200 (MiG-1) and MiG-3. In the outline design of the fighter “K”, developed by N.N. Polikarpov, the installation of a more advanced AM-37 motor was envisaged, and subsequently its modification, called AM-39. But the AM-37 was not brought to the series, and work on the AM-39 motor in 1940 was only just beginning. http: //aviaru.rf/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhen
      ie / aviamotorostroenie / aviamotory-sssr / porshnevye-
      i-dizelnye / porshnevoj-aviatsionnyj-dvigatel-am-35
      /
      The high-altitude fighter was the VI-100 Petlyakova, which was then converted into a Pe-2 bomber. http: //aviaru.rf/aviamuseum/aviatsiya/sssr/istreb
      iteli-2/1920-e-1930-e-gody / vysotnyj-istrebitel-vi
      -100 /
  6. metallic
    metallic April 4 2018 16: 11
    +3
    Too emotionally written :-)
    LaGG had one more minus - delta wood, with which there was some tension during the war.
  7. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 4 2018 16: 13
    +3
    Ambiguous, but true. The fighter was really heavy, comparable in mass to the MiG-3, but on the engine it was the Yak-1. Waiting for high speeds from this plane could only inveterate optimist.
    Because 550 km / h, shown by LaGG, were already in favor.

    If LaGG-3 would give out 550 km / h - then the Air Force would put up with its "ironiness". The problem was that LaGG-3 did not give this speed already from the 4th series.
    The quality of vehicles built in the summer and fall of 1941 turned out to be even lower than that of pre-war assembly fighters. The fact is that unskilled personnel were involved in the assembly of the aircraft, trying to fulfill the assigned tasks. Quality sacrificed to quantity. The frontal resistance of the aircraft increased, as a result of operational and combat characteristics decreased again.
    If the pre-war LaGG-3s reached a maximum speed of about 575 km / h, then the LaGGs of the 4th series barely gained 549 km / h, the rate of climb drastically decreased (from 750 m / min to 600 m / min). ceiling and range (from 1100 km to 870 km).

    It was possible to correct the situation only in 1943 - when LaGG-3 was already replaced in production by La-5.
    Comparative tests of aircraft of the 66th series with cars of previous releases, conducted at the NIIIVVS in Sverdlovsk, showed that the new modification has the best characteristics among LaGG-3 of all releases. Near the land of LaGG-3 of the 66th series, it developed a speed of 542 km / h (compared with 507 km / h of LaGG-3 of the 29th series). The maximum speed of the new modification was 591 km / h, which was 25 km / h more than the cars of previous releases.

    And the second factor is the low level of training of technical personnel in the Air Force. They wrote that the visit of the factory brigade to the air regiment increased the speed of the fighters at 20 km / h - the factory workers carried out the full maintenance of the machines according to the instructions, then they adjusted them in place and tightly closed all the technical hatches in the fuselage. Cars began to fly faster, and the traditional splashing of the lantern with oil stopped.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 5 2018 10: 29
      +4
      Quote: Alexey RA
      And the second factor is the low level of training of technical personnel in the Air Force. They wrote that the visit of the factory brigade to the air regiment increased the speed of the fighters at 20 km / h - the factory workers carried out the full maintenance of the machines according to the instructions, then they adjusted them in place and tightly closed all the technical hatches in the fuselage. Cars began to fly faster, and the traditional splashing of the lantern with oil stopped.

      This is generally a separate and rather painful topic ...
      Hero pilots flew in the sky and performed feats. And ground personnel provided them with these feats. For comparison, you can see the race of the Formula -1 - how many people and resources are used to win a pair of “pilots” .... Only in the BAO the same people were recruited that they called to the front. And about technical literacy, you can refer to A. Shirokoroda, when he considered the cause of failures in the reliability of the Red Army tanks and the literacy of tank crews ...
  8. Amurets
    Amurets April 4 2018 16: 14
    +3
    In fact, in the end I want to say only one thing. LaGG-3 was a very thoughtful and competent aircraft. The country had problems with aviation aluminum. Therefore, delta wood. Unlike Yak and MiG, where they even managed without it. Yes, it was heavy
    The author agrees with many things, but the same A.S. Yakovlev writes that there were problems with delta wood. Not the delta wood itself brought problems; problems were with materials for its production. “Here is an example with the LAGG-3 fighter. The so-called delta wood was chosen as the main structural material for this aircraft. Pressed under high pressure and impregnated with special phenolic resins, this wood had much higher strength than ordinary pine used in aircraft construction.
    But from the very first days of the war, delta wood brought us a lot of trouble, since we imported the resins necessary for its impregnation from abroad, and with the outbreak of war the delivery was extremely difficult. In addition, the wood itself was procured from a rare and scarce wood species. "
    And yet, the first 37 mm gun was not NS-37 Nudelman, but the Sh-37 Shpitalnaya. V.N. Novikov, during the Second World War of the Deputy People's Commissar of Armaments, the day before and on the test days: "The People’s Commissariat closely watched the tests of the second thirty-seven millimetry, although the Shpitalny sample was already produced. This was because the Sh-37 was difficult and time-consuming to manufacture, and in comparison with the gun The NS-37 was also heavier and more bulky. The gun of A. E. Nudelman and A. S. Suranov lagged behind the gun of B. G. Shpitalny, as it was created later. Knowing that our aviation guns are superior to the German ones, we We were in no hurry to decide which of the two guns to choose, waiting for the testing of both. The gun created by A. E. Nudelman and his comrades fit better into the plane, was simpler and easier, had link power, and had a number of other advantages. grounds to bring the tests of this gun to the end and, based on the results, choose the one that is more suitable for installation on aircraft and for mass production. "
  9. Alex_59
    Alex_59 April 4 2018 16: 19
    +7
    Despite the intensified punching of the question "Stalin was not *****." Not to be, he was not, but the ways of the Lord are not confessed. It turned out in the end not just what they were planning, and not what they were doing. Therefore, everything is at the same time. And Stalin and the team did not quite guess, and the designers did not quite what they would like, and they did not have to fight as all of the above suggested. Complex plane ...
    My grandfather fought on it until 1944 (!) Year. True, his active flight work was completed before the saturation of the regiment with these machines, and in the 41, the I-153 were also in the regiment. And when LaGG arrived he was already in the headquarters, how much he flew on Lagge and whether I flew on it at all I do not know. Nevertheless, the regiment fought in places and successfully. 9-IAP 11-th SHAD Air Force Black Sea Fleet, then BF. They covered the Il-Xnumx attack aircraft, which worked on the enemy’s watercraft, and also along the coast. Most likely the regiment received this type according to the residual principle, as it was supplied to the Navy at that time (and now too). It is difficult for me to judge how specific the performance characteristics of LaGG are specifically for the specificity of the 2 IAP. On the one hand, the presence of LaGGs does not badly correspond to the task of directly supporting IL-9, because This task is built on the principle of "Do not let down IL." You yourself can not shoot down anyone - the main thing is to disrupt attacks. To give a turn according to the course of Messer, IL-2 coming into the back so that he turns away - the task has already been completed, although Messer is not shot down. Those. it seems that special maneuverability is not required and there is no task to get into dog fights. On the other hand, again, even in order to knock down the attack, sometimes you need to sharply turn the course to give the turn - anticipatory on the course of the enemy. Those. it seems that maneuverability is never superfluous, but this is clearly not the hobby of LaGG.
    Losses in the regiment were serious. He was relegated to reformation twice. One after leaving Crimea. In 1944 there already, of course, and successfully fought on LaGGs, because the situation for the Germans was already disastrous. And when they moved to the Yak-9, the Germans arrived at all. In 45 in the Baltic, our people did with them what they wanted and how they wanted. Blitzkrieg is the opposite. Moreover, the Germans in the 45-m surpassed us in the 41-m in terms of the loss of tonnage of ships - i.e. we beat them much harder than they did us in 41.
    1. caiman
      caiman April 5 2018 11: 46
      +2
      DEAR AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 9IAP WAR IN NATURE, THERE WASN’T EXISTING, THERE WAS 69 IAPs, 9 GUARDSHIP APPEARED ONLY AT42 IN MARCH UNDER A STEEL START, BETWEEN IT WAS OPENED) )))
  10. Blue fox
    Blue fox April 4 2018 16: 29
    +1
    Quote: Alexey RA
    And the second factor is the low level of training of technical personnel in the Air Force.

    I think this is also due to the fact that techies fell off their feet in intense battles.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 4 2018 17: 21
      +4
      no, techies were not falling from their feet because of the intensity of the fighting.
      firstly, the standard equipment of the aerodrome services was wretched. There was no tool, no materials, no spare parts, no tractors. Often there were not enough support services (kitchen, bathhouse, electricity, etc.)
      Not enough skills. Technicians went to the airdromes often, having experience only with ordinary cars or tractors, or not at all. This led to a terrible accident in the operation of the Pe-2. Electrically drives could not exploit corny.
      For techies, this resulted in a huge amount of stupid work.
      The Germans had a density of technically literate people 3-4 times higher at airfields and the staff itself was several times more per unit of equipment served.
      It was also important that the Germans preferred few large airfields, and ours were often crushed into a bunch of smaller ones, which also added problems on the ground.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 4 2018 18: 48
        +3
        Quote: yehat
        Not enough skills. Technicians went to the airdromes often, having experience only with ordinary cars or tractors, or not at all. This led to a terrible accident in the operation of the Pe-2. Electrically drives could not exploit corny.

        The problem is that the technicians often did not even read the instructions. There was a great example with VK-107:
        Resource VK-107 in combat units depended on the level of training of technicians. The only ones from 139 giap 303 iads managed to provide the motor with a resource of as much as 115 hours.
        But for this I had to do the unthinkable - to conduct training of technical personnel, study the instructions and instructions for the new engine and continue to conduct maintenance of the engines in accordance with the instructions.
      2. caiman
        caiman April 5 2018 11: 50
        0
        HERE FROM WHERE SUCH ANIMALS TO TAKE?))) Who had what density of competent techies was))),
        1. your1970
          your1970 April 6 2018 11: 56
          +4
          Quote: caiman
          HERE FROM WHERE SUCH ANIMALS TO TAKE?))) Who had what density of competent techies was))),
          - my grandfather served in artillery, was called up for the May training camp. I saw the first car in the army - MTSs were with tractors, but there weren’t any cars .. He called 280 people from the district.
          Did they have a very high technical level ?? and the Germans by this time had cars and motorcycles among the population are very common ...
          Yes, even take banal cameras - they and we ...
          1. andrej-shironov
            andrej-shironov April 6 2018 21: 32
            0
            wink Katz as always offered and offers to give up? wink No wonder, he didn’t provide links in another branch!
            Is your grandfather squealing in German? wink
            1. your1970
              your1970 April 7 2018 12: 42
              +4
              Quote: andrej-shironov
              Katz as always offered and offers to give up?
              -to read what I wrote, weakly? that the majority of the population didn’t have technical training at all - to understand poorly? read memoirs of flyers and understand that 14 hours of engine life can only be with completely INCORRECT maintenance or non-maintenance in general?
              open the instruction manual of the Tiger and ours to the T-34- German at times easier - because German technicians possessed certain technical skills. They didn’t have to write on 3 pages - that water should be drained from the cooling systems in the winter, but for ours we had to write, and even "Absolutely forbidden leave water at lower temperatures ... "

              in 1998, we had a prerequisite for a flight accident in the helicopter regiment - the green flight technician didn’t fasten the hood locks after the school, and he pulled the hell out of the gas station. The question “WHY ??!” - he "answered" And I thought, so it is possible "

              Z.Y. and my grandfather conquered until 1943, was blown up by a mine, damaged his foot, commissar .. there were no special awards - but "Received for courage"

              Do not judge people by yourself ...
              1. andrej-shironov
                andrej-shironov April 7 2018 17: 18
                +1
                Sergey I apologize for grandfather! Fair! Your phrase is very pissed off:
                Yes, even take banal cameras - they and we ...

                There, by the way, they had more varieties of sausages and beer! wink For almost 35 years I have not missed a single May 9th, I go to a military burial place. I perfectly remember the 90s when the people there came with a gulkin genitals, not like in the 70s and 80s. And probably the same as you said: it was necessary to lose the Second World War, they would drink German beer and drive a Mercedes! And again, they had cameras .. not like ours.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 April 7 2018 20: 23
                  +2
                  before sticking labels - would look first stop
                  I wrote that at that time, technically, the Germans were more trained and prepared in connection with a large number of equipment, so to speak, available for use, the level of motorization was much higher.
                  And the cameras had in mind a much larger number in their troops -
                  than ours. That is why, including so many pictures left from them. The quality of the cameras was naturally higher. And all this despite the fact that their silver deposits in Germany were sufficiently depleted, silver came mainly from the Czech Republic ...
                  Quote: andrej-shironov
                  And probably the same as you said: it was necessary to lose the Second World War
                  -It’s not that I couldn’t even think like that ..
                  My great-grandfather had 2 sons and 5 daughters (all married). 2 sons-in-law returned (both wounded badly, one commissar, and the second went through the whole war) - all the others (and my grandfather (on my father)) died ..
                  1. andrej-shironov
                    andrej-shironov April 8 2018 09: 06
                    0
                    I’ll even say more, already before the war, the Germans shot color film and photo film, Sergey, did this help the Germans?
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 April 9 2018 11: 13
                      0
                      Quote: andrej-shironov
                      I’ll even say more, already before the war, the Germans shot color film and photo film, Sergey, did this help the Germans?
                      - Naturally helped - postponed our victory for 4 years. If there were fascists in place, for example, Japanese, Romanians, or Finns (states with a much lower technical culture than German), we would certainly have won faster ..
                      Examples of Japanese battleships / planes not to cite are single enterprises, the number of workers on which is scanty compared to those mobilized into the army
                      The resource of the aircraft engine was clearly more than 14 hours, the tanks were repaired much more quickly and efficiently - a large percentage was returned to service, communications / optics were much better than ours
                      and so on in all positions.
                      And all this together allowed them to last 4 years
                      1. andrej-shironov
                        andrej-shironov April 9 2018 15: 45
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: andrej-shironov
                        I’ll even say more, already before the war, the Germans shot color film and photo film, Sergey, did this help the Germans?
                        - Naturally helped - postponed our victory for 4 years. If there were fascists in place, for example, Japanese, Romanians, or Finns (states with a much lower technical culture than German), we would certainly have won faster ..
                        Examples of Japanese battleships / planes not to cite are single enterprises, the number of workers on which is scanty compared to those mobilized into the army
                        The resource of the aircraft engine was clearly more than 14 hours, the tanks were repaired much more quickly and efficiently - a large percentage was returned to service, communications / optics were much better than ours
                        and so on in all positions.
                        And all this together allowed them to last 4 years

                        Sergey, for some reason you always push on particulars, but the result, as it were, leaves the center of your attention! We won and this is important! There was a leader, there was an idea! Unlike the current situation.
                    2. Huumi
                      Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 08
                      0
                      But I’ll note that the Germans were able to go in 4 months from Brest to Moscow because they fought well, and we had to rake back the same distance for almost three years — so what do you think, why did this happen? 4 months and 3 years almost do you feel the difference? do you feel it? Germans in Russia moved faster than in France !!! tell me smart how I read from your comments pan-why did it happen? why did the Germans serve the car up to 20 people and we have 1-3 people? from a big mind probably?
                      1. yehat
                        yehat 3 June 2018 13: 46
                        0
                        Germans in France moved faster than in Belarus.
                        the only moment when they were really fast-forward - they made a breakthrough in the steppe near Stalingrad - so there was nobody there.
                2. Huumi
                  Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 04
                  0
                  The country is rich in .... though, if the opponent goes to war, he means he lost ...
        2. yehat
          yehat April 7 2018 21: 20
          +1
          a simple example - what percentage of techies could set up a banal carburetor?
          Find the answer yourself. I do not want to please lazy dunno.
  11. hohol95
    hohol95 April 4 2018 16: 41
    +4

    And when the British accepted THIS "MIRACLE" than they "THINKED" ???
    Boulton Paul Defiant - A total of 1072 aircraft were built.
    In the bow of the aircraft there is NO armament.
    1. doxtop
      doxtop April 4 2018 20: 00
      +3
      Quote: hohol95
      And when the British accepted THIS "MIRACLE" than they "THINKED" ???

      The Britons at that time did not have a good night fighter-interceptor (as if the word "interceptor" was funny and did not sound). BUT there was a task - to build a fighter that would be able to shoot beavers at the cost of minimal losses. And since it’s “minimal”, then you need to approach the bomber from the bottom, where possible, where it has the most vulnerable places.
      And it was precisely on the basis of such tactics, as well as the considerations that “in one go” under the beaver’s belly, “a fighter with directional weapons cannot do so much damage to him” and a scheme with a quad loader in an outboard turret turret was chosen. ;) This allowed the shooter (without distracting the pilot ... especially at night) to concentrate fire on the vulnerabilities of bombers in their lower hemispheres. And for the "dogfights" Defiant was not created at all, even as never before!
      As the saying goes ... read more! ;)

      Yours!
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 April 5 2018 08: 18
        0
        You can read more ...
        Only THESE THEORIES, without checking them in reality, are often “strewed like houses of cards”!
        The main task for any fighter of that time was the destruction of the dense formation of jointly defending bombers. It was assumed that the Hurricanes would attack in the usual way, and two-seater cars would attack from the sides and from below. The firepower of turret fighters could be concentrated, for example, on the lead aircraft. According to this theory, the possibility of a fighter’s battle against a fighter was acceptable, if only it was inevitable, but was not an integral part of the tasks of a two-seater fighter. In the design requirements, the front armament was decisively discarded, as it was detrimental to flight performance and was not required when performing the tasks prescribed to the aircraft. Moreover, they feared that the pilot would use these weapons for offensive purposes and, accordingly, would reduce the shooting capabilities of the shooter.
        ... However, the training aerial battles with the Hurricanes immediately showed that any single-seat fighter like the Hurricane could defeat the Difient, and that the latter would have a bad time when he faced the German Messerschmitt Bf109 for the second time ( for some reason the British believed that at the first skirmish, Difaient would take advantage of surprise). These tests also demonstrated that for the full disclosure of the capabilities of "Difient" requires a very close interaction between the pilot and the gunner, especially if you need to defend against enemy fighters.
        ...Flying from afar without an escort of bombers, for the destruction of which the Difient was conceived many years ago, never appeared. By this time, large areas of the south coast were already within reach of the Luftwaffe fighters. Although the machine performed well against solitary lagging aircraft or the careless Messerschmitt, its flaws in maneuverable combat were constantly manifested.
        ...It was good luck for everyone that the Defyant’s unsuitability for daytime fighting, which manifested itself in 1940, was more than compensated for by its use for night interception, where it became a very useful weapon until the appearance of more modern types of aircraft that were then in development.

        In theory, this car was a day fighter, but in reality it turned out to be a good night light (in the absence of more advanced night fighters)!
    2. serg.shishkov2015
      serg.shishkov2015 April 7 2018 15: 03
      +2
      20 years ago I found out about him, Complete nonsense! at least 1 machine gun was put in the wing! and go on your forehead and it’s yours! Actually, the Germans did so when they heard what a miracle it is!
  12. hohol95
    hohol95 April 4 2018 16: 47
    +1
    "Reserve height"
    Nikolay Skomorokhov
    Meanwhile, Captain Bogdanov went up to Davydov, and they talked about something. The regiment commander called Fadeev, said briefly:
    - Replace the second lieutenant. Three days to retrain on LaGG-3.
    “Yes, Comrade Major!” - Fadeev was delighted.
    The commander of the first squadron, Captain Kuteynikov, a tall, slender brown-haired man, examined Anatoly with a critical look and casually said:
    - Go to the engineer, if he allows you to fly - you will fly tomorrow, if not - you will go to the front in the train.

    - Comrade Captain, Sergeant Fadeev is ready for flights.
    “Tell me why you pretended not to fly LaGG-3?” Wanted to evade from the front? - attacked Kuteynikov.
    Fadeev expected everything, but not that. His tears almost burst from his eyes.
    “What kind of goose are we, we'll figure it out!” - boiled the angry comasco first. "Mansions" will still take care of you!
    And really they did. All the pilots flew, and Fadeev was interrogated: where he was born, was baptized, and so on ... Then suddenly they immediately left alone.
  13. yehat
    yehat April 4 2018 17: 10
    +4
    the author himself poorly understands what kind of aircraft Laggg-3
    LaGG-3 had to be applied in accordance with the developed concept.

    this was not the problem, but in completely different things
    1. A banal charter, adopted tactics - until the age of 43, he doomed fighters to a defensive battle, where only the Yak-1 and I-16 felt more or less normal.
    2. Coordination and communication - there were also problems with this for a long time and until the end of the war the Germans knew better.
    3. Pilot qualification - on Lagg3 it was possible to conduct an air battle with fighters efficiently, but only if you were able to specifically pilot, saving "energy". It could only be experienced pilots and then far from all. And there were no more than 3-5% of the personnel of fighter aircraft. By the way, not many could fly well on i16 either.
    Non-core use is a secondary reason for the loss of Lagg-3.

    about instant-1 and instant-3, too, far from everything is said. The whole altitude of Mig was lost on the fact that there was unsuccessful oxygen equipment and poor communication. The plane could fly, but the pilot would not survive and would not find a target. This was compounded by the fact that many pilots had weak navigational skills, and machine control significantly distracted the pilot. (there were no radio compasses, automation of control of engine operation modes, automatic change of screw pitch did not appear immediately)
    Well, the arguments described about the charter and tactics - there were problems there too.
    This made Mig-3 pilots decline, not the absence of targets at all.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 4 2018 18: 54
      +3
      Quote: yehat
      1. A banal charter, adopted tactics - until the age of 43, he doomed fighters to a defensive battle, where only the Yak-1 and I-16 felt more or less normal.

      And the pre-war OSh doomed the fighters to fighting in a numerical minority as well. Because the fragmentation of aviation into armies, fronts and central subordination led to the fact that our forces simply beat in parts, concentrating superior forces against them - some are beaten, others are waiting in line.
      It led to the fact that when there were fighters on the front, the bombers had to go on the attack without cover - because organizing a cover, for example, a DBA regiment (central submission) by IAP smad fighters (army submission) was practically unrealistic.
      However, with the transition to the Air Army, the problem of interaction at first remained - but here it was already possible to at least find the culprits.
      1. yehat
        yehat April 4 2018 22: 34
        +2
        I read the memoirs of the pilots - numerical superiority and action by large groups, according to the plan, they basically didn’t work out because of communications - radio communications, communications between airfield headquarters, communications with army headquarters, etc. The impossibility, slowness of coordination led to a fragmentation of forces, but by the end of 43 years these problems were generally resolved.
        Moreover, the mess was mainly in attack and fighter aircraft.
        Tactical and strategic aviation operated since the beginning of the war at a much higher level of coordination, mainly because the experience of the personnel was utterly higher.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 5 2018 10: 02
          +1
          Quote: yehat
          Tactical and strategic aviation operated since the beginning of the war at a much higher level of coordination, mainly because the experience of the personnel was utterly higher.

          Internal coordination - yes, it was better. That's just the point of her attacks with “naked” bombers of targets covered by ZA and IA, was not enough.
          And external coordination, or interaction, can be judged even by the fact that 1 mtap, 57 and 73 bap were not only thrown at Dvinsk without cover, because 1 mtap aircraft were also attacked by their own I-153. Or you can recall the departure of 81 air divisions to Berlin:
          The plane M.V. Vodopyanova during climb was attacked by I-16 fighters.
          On TB-7, captain A.N. Tyagunin already on the way back failed one of the engines. In addition, over the Baltic coast the plane was fired by its anti-aircraft gunners.
          Ep-2 Lieutenant B. A. Kubyshko on the way back was shot down by an I-16 fighter.
  14. shuravi
    shuravi April 4 2018 17: 19
    +4
    Good aircraft with excellent aerodynamics. It has completely found its place as an information security, in secondary areas. Also good against heavy vehicles.
  15. dgonni
    dgonni April 4 2018 17: 24
    +6
    The article is so-so on the C grade. But if the case, then indeed, the Mig-3 was created precisely as a high-altitude. And precisely for the interceptions of the Anglican bombers, well, all of a sudden. For with the Germans the peace treaty is chewing gum friendship, while the British on the southern borders did have aviation, while high-altitude, which could greatly spoil the Baku oil fields. Yak-1 in fact shoved Yakovlev. The prototype Piontkovsky pilot crashed on the prototype due to the destruction of the wing due to insufficient strength. The I-26 in the form of the Yak-1 was put into production without having completely passed ALL! state test cycle. Although in fact by 1942 the main schools were licked, but the issues of strength and overheating remained in the yak family until the end of the war. About the Lugg-3. I don’t remember, I won’t be able to say it offhand, but one of the Baltic Fleet aces flying in 1941-1942 admitted that in 1941 Lavochkin was quite an airplane for himself. Only the tactics used were not what we needed. Tried to bend, but in fact it was necessary to boom aki on aero cobra. Although the network contains memories of the German ace for the year 1943, where he was spinning on the 109G mess for half an hour, he still could not bring him down and at some points in the battle he could be shot down himself.
    The most important problem of Soviet aircraft was in the engine level of the USSR. The same messer gradually modernizing lasted the whole war. At the same time, knowing how to fight both at the ground and to bring down bombers at a height. Soviet fighters did not possess such properties. Unfortunately. What required to keep a large and diverse fleet of aircraft that increased the cost of maintaining the air force. For example, in Moscow air defense, the spitfire has become the main aircraft since 1943. For flying and gaining altitude at which he could fight. Escort Ilov it was the prerogative of the Yakovlev cars. For at a low altitude where the battles developed mainly on bends, there was no better plane. The same La-5 performed this mission worse and had heavy losses in cases of setting such tasks. But when escorted by Pawns, and especially Tu-2, it was better than Yakovlev.
    1. Bask
      Bask April 4 2018 18: 15
      +5
      After the battles in the Kuban, where Soviet pilots tested the Spbfire Vb, these same spfires were sent to Moscow’s air defense because nothing more surprising was seen by the Russian pilots in the British “cruelty.” The author of the article somehow avoided such sores as engine overheating (which also spat on oil), the hoods and hatches were not tightly fitted, about how the same MiG-3 “fired” landing shields. And most importantly, how many people did not read the pilots' memories everyone says that LaGG-3 is too It was difficult for the VK-105, and yet really experienced pilots flew it well. But the same British in the Battle of Britain on the Hurricanes more shot down 109th than on Spitfire, although by that time the charitons were inferior to Bf-109 E-3,4 .Delta -wood when hit by a high-explosive fragmentation shell collapsed much more than the aluminum casing, about the resin of which it was impregnated above already written.
      It seems to me that the author of the article, accusing the whistleblowers of the 90s, is likened to them himself. He only brings him to the other extreme. In the 90s they shouted that we had been deceived for so many years, but in fact everything was bad. The author has a different extreme , in the 90s everything about everything was lying and faulty, but in reality everything was not so bad and the planes were good. Only as the author himself says, “Where is the logic?” Why only when the Yak-3 and La -5FN managed to at least somehow compare with the Germans in rate of climb and horizontal flight speed?
      1. Huumi
        Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 31
        0
        And BECAUSE HE BASED ON THE TIRE, ANGLED LIES — REMOVED THE UNIQUE SHVAK FROM YAKA AND ON THE QUESTION — HOW TO FIGHT HIM HALF, ANSWERED BY CASES, AND THAT IN THE FIRST TIME, I FIRED UNPREPENEDLY. IT WAS. WRITTEN IN A BOOK OF SKY WAR. AND HE DID NOT FLY ON THE MIGG WITH 88 GUNS, THIS IS HERE. WHY THE AUTHOR DAMAGES THE REMEMBERS OF THE TIRE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND AN ABSOLUTELY. THE TYPE HAS BEEN ORDERED REMOVE ALL! THE AUTHOR WHICH IS VERY FUNNY AND MORE AT THAT REFERRING TO THE PILOT .. THE ONLY THAT I CAN MIX - FROM MIGGA OR REMOVED OR FROM YAK BUT NOT REMAINED - REMOVED THE LAST AND SINGLE GUN
    2. doxtop
      doxtop April 4 2018 20: 07
      +6
      Quote: dgonni
      Although the network contains memories of the German ace for the year 1943, where he was spinning on the 109G mess for half an hour, he still couldn’t bring him down and at some points in the battle he could be shot down himself.

      You describe the air battle that the German ace Gerhard Barkhorn had with Alexei Vasilyevich Alelyukhin at the end of 1942 during the Battle of Stalingrad. When during the 40 minute battle none of the opponents was able to bring down the other, although both pilots used up all their ammunition. ;)
      Yours!
      1. dgonni
        dgonni April 5 2018 08: 39
        +1
        Maybe! Barkhorn for sure, but in my opinion it is not Stalingrad, namely Leningrad. But I will not argue.
    3. yehat
      yehat April 4 2018 22: 51
      +3
      Yak-1 was objectively a normal choice.
      it’s just worth remembering that Yakovlev vacuumed the resources of the entire aviation industry for 7 years to the detriment of the work of many designers and gave birth to only one rather crude aircraft, which was then brought up a year and a half simply to a sane level of operation. It seems to me that this scoundrel should have given way to other designers - Polikarpov with a series of promising projects, Moskalev with his SAM-13, Sukhoi with his Su-1 and Su-3, Pashinin with the prototype I21, Mikoyan and Gurevich with 2 prototypes. Many of these machines, with the resources of Yakovlev, could get a ticket to life, and it seems to me that there was something better among them.
      In general, I believe that thanks to Yakovlev the USSR failed to prepare a light front-line fighter in the pre-war period. Adequate machines appeared in parts only by the end of 42 years.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 5 2018 10: 45
        +1
        Quote: yehat
        It seems to me that this scoundrel should have given way to other designers - Polikarpov with a series of promising projects

        The keyword is promising. That is, an experimental machine for a motor not yet ready. Moreover, judging by the sad experience with the M-88, even the adoption of the motor does not guarantee its quality. Start a war - you have to fly on drawings and kulman.
        What do we have in 1941 from the engines on which you can fight? AM-35, M-105, M-63, M-88. And that’s it. Everyone else continues to be brought in - and there is no guarantee that this process will be successful. The same M-82 was brought only in 1942, but even then he continued to devour the candles as if into himself (the resource of candles was 14 hours).
        Quote: yehat
        Many of these machines, with the resources of Yakovlev, could get a ticket to life, and it seems to me that there was something better among them.

        Everything rests on the motors. Promising cars were made for promising engines - and only with them gave out their performance characteristics. Remember the I-185 that Yakovlev promoted until 1943: the M-71 never reached the series, and with the M-82 the performance characteristics of the experimental I-185s differed from the performance characteristics of the production La-5s by about the amount of performance deterioration during the transition from the experimental vehicle to series.
        When comparing the I-185 and La-5, we should not forget that there was practically no experimental La-5: instead of a licked hand-assembled machine, the LaGG-3 serial fuselage with the hastily attached M-82 was submitted for testing, and the power pack in the bow remained from LaGG-3, so I had to block the "outer casing" to lick the transition from the long-legged star to the fuselage, designed for a narrow water-cooled motor.
        1. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer April 5 2018 13: 39
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The same M-82 was brought only in 1942, but even then he continued to devour the candles as if into himself (the resource of candles was 14 hours).


          14 hours is still very high-quality candles :) - Lend Lease :)
          Often, candles were courted no more than 5 hours.
          Father served M-82
          But after the war, when AL-82 was put on the IL-12, IL-14 - the candles lived longer - the motors forced less, tea was not a fighter :))
          1. BV330
            BV330 April 5 2018 18: 43
            +1
            Hmm, because the AL-82T on ILs on the takeoff gave out 1900hls as an advanced ASH-83, and at a nominal - 1630, like the ASh-82FN., Or flew on a cruise far from 1630?
            Or maybe just the service has become right, and the candles themselves are better?
          2. Huumi
            Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 35
            0
            the veteran said that the candles of the mechanics just got sick of changing, the first to fly out the candles from the lower boilers
        2. yehat
          yehat April 5 2018 14: 43
          0
          not everything rested on motors. As examples - Japanese Zero, P40, SAM-13, etc.
          desired flight performance could be achieved.
          In part, this also applied to the terms of reference. A number of characteristics could completely or partially replace the lack of others, but this was not taken into account. Finally, La-5 could have appeared earlier if it had been more intensively studying foreign experience, primarily American and Italian, and not biting each other, which was actively promoted by Mikoyan, Yakovlev and other figures.
          Do you know the facts that Yakovlev was hiding from other designers his developments and the results of a technical analysis of downed Messerschmitts, from which he himself stole quite a few decisions on his Yak? Did you know that Lavochkin twice invented a bicycle on the way to La-5, which Polikarpov already knew before the war?
          The real problems we had only in the creation of high-altitude aircraft - and fighters and bombers, the level of industry did not reach an adequate level of technology.
          The compressor and a number of other devices of sane quality were not created until the age of 45.
          Even references to the deficit of duralumin for fighter jets are not quite objective - aluminum production was established, but a huge amount was flushed into the fleet of TB-3, SB, IL-2 and another, which in my opinion was an inefficient waste of resources.
          1. your1970
            your1970 April 6 2018 12: 42
            0
            Quote: yehat
            Finally, La-5 could have appeared earlier if it had been more intensively studying foreign experience, primarily American and Italian
            -And they all rushed to show their experience and share knowledge ??? Type - guys flock to our company secrets, we will tell you all / show them to you?
            The Germans-with all the compulsion for them, and then not all showed ....
            1. yehat
              yehat April 6 2018 21: 23
              +3
              experiments with star motors were open - it was possible to study the experience, but not all solutions were known to us. Work on turbochargers could also be studied. In our country, they say, aviation was popular at that time, but how popular it was in the USA! Races were regularly held, special stadiums were built for this. Transport aircraft - from the famous gray-goos super-plane to the Li-2, while we produced archaic TB.
              compare Yakovlev AIR-14, 36 year old and Lockheed Orion (postal plane) 30th year
              an American is just 2 heads taller technologically. There was something to learn and something to level off. The same P40, which has a lot in common with the Yak-1. The Americans created it simply in passing - not particularly straining - just a cheap option, so that there was something in reserve and it was no worse than the Yak-1, but it was created 5 years earlier. And it's not about the engine - the design itself and aerodynamics were more perfect than that of the Yak in the middle of 41 years.
              They somehow forget about it. Before praising Yakovlev, it is still worth remembering what could be done. And experience could be found not only in America - Germany, Italy, England, France - please study! But no, our cause is just, etc.
              The only designer who understood the importance of this work and paid it a lot of attention was Polikarpov. He gave out ideas. Virtually all fighters, except for the Yak-1, directly grew out of Polikarpov’s concepts.
              I honestly don’t know where Yakovlev got his ideas from - Yak-1 is not too similar to what he did before. Although the layout for that time was the most popular - Bf-109, Hurricane, P40, Devatin, Lagg and a number of prototypes like ITP, Su-1 had a very similar scheme.
              1. BV330
                BV330 April 7 2018 03: 11
                +1
                One well-known expert in narrow circles with the call sign ".... 1-01" met posts on the subject of Yakov’s creative copying of Devuatin, up to a complete set of wing profiles. And if our deputy commissar visited France in 38-39 with visits to air companies, then there will be nothing unusual in this creative copying.
                1. yehat
                  yehat April 7 2018 08: 32
                  +1
                  By the way, yes, Yakovlev was with the military commission in France (there the tankers accidentally spied the reservation of the FCM-36 for the t34 when they saw a broken tank on the road). But it seems to me that he did not have time for copying - most likely, part of the calculations were taken from similar source sources and got a similar result.
      2. fighter angel
        fighter angel April 5 2018 14: 27
        +2
        yehat
        Fear you God!
        Thanks to Yakovlev, the NKAP really began to do business! Design and build the really needed combat vehicles, and not all Shevchenko-Nikitin “folding bi-monoplanes” there, Bakshaev’s “sliding wings”, Bisnovat’s “periscopeless cabins”, and other garbage. Remember at least Sylvan - this one “frame” is what the country was worth! Designed anything and whatever, instead of what was needed for the defense of the country! How much effort and money was wasted on these "developments"? And how much precious time was wasted? And it was Yakovlev who covered up this "mess" with the help of Professor Boris Yuryev, and his commission, which determined the prospects of each development. SAM-13, say, what kind of fighter is it? Yes, no one! Just fast, that's all. How to leave it with a parachute? Survive when jumping in an emergency - the chance is zero! You can’t put cannon weapons. Moskalev did not finish cleaning the chassis on it. As for the confrontation Moskalev-Yakovlev, read the Blue Spiral. They had a conversation in which Yakovlev suggested that Moskalevudel be tackled, because the war is on the nose, and all the promising and not very developments that do not have practical military value at the moment are postponed until better times. But Moskalev continued to “bend his line” ... He paid for it. If each subordinate begins to do not what is required of him, but what he wants, which leader will like it?
        So I fundamentally disagree with you- Yakovlev before the war led absolutely correct activity. And he didn’t "spread rot" Polikarpov, but, on the contrary, rushed from his I-185-M71, asking to form an IAD, namely on the I-185, from experienced pilot aces to fight for air supremacy in threatening areas. In this regard, in the "Aviation and Cosmonautics" last year, an entire article was, and a note by Yakovlev literally given and published. And if M71 had been brought to mind, Po-15 would have gone (namely, such a code in the series was prepared for I-185M-71, according to Yakubovich) in the series, and would have beaten the Fritz. But, there is no engine, no aircraft.
        1. yehat
          yehat April 5 2018 15: 06
          +1
          I wonder where did you get the information? Perhaps they read Yakovlev’s book?
          what you say is fiction. About Moskalev certainly poklep Yakovlev, about Polikarpov, too, is not all true. By the way, the fact that Mikoyan, Gurevich and a number of other talented engineers left Polikarpov, having stolen, by the way, projects is a direct consequence of what Yakovlev did, which caused serious damage to the design work.
          Alksnis, a completely alien person from these skirmishes, somehow made a reservation at a meeting with Leningrad fighters shortly before his arrest that Yakovlev was very far from corporate solidarity - he constantly rowed for himself and was engaged more in some kind of politics than production.
          Of course, in how the Yak-1 was made there were not a few sound motives. But, this is a plane at the level of technology for 36 years !!! Why the hell was he ready for 42? (yak 41 years old was almost incompetent due to childhood problems)
          In 38, the bf-109E was fully studied, Polikarpov was in the know about all the world novelties. I am sure that by the year 40 it was possible to completely solve the problems of a light fighter, however, this did not happen. And now 3 questions
          1. who had a design bureau that was many times more numerous than other design bureaus in terms of the number of employees?
          2. who had a design bureau in Moscow, which gave quite a few advantages, as well as the newest plant for the production of fighters and also in Moscow, which the Germans built?
          3. who had a carte blanche for the use of related departments - wind tunnels, quotas for engines and other spare parts, etc.?
          4. Who has the only prototype that has not passed the test?
          But this is all Yakovlev. So there is no need to take responsibility off him, even if he did something good.

          Lavochkin performed a miracle by creating La-5 in record time, otherwise his design bureau would have been closed.
          and Yakovlev also participated in this.
          1. fighter angel
            fighter angel April 5 2018 16: 06
            0
            yehat
            And I told you where the information came from. About Moskalev was taken from his same book, The Blue Spiral. If you haven’t read it, then I highly recommend it to you. And the fact that Mikoyan and Gurevich are gone, sorry, the interests of the case! While Nikolai Nikolaevich was on a business trip to Germany for a whole year, why should promising projects stand idle in his expectation? It was necessary to build a new fighter! Time does not wait. On the nose is war. And the absolutely correct decision on the allocation of MiG in an independent design bureau.
            Well, about Alksnis I’ll answer you, he’s the same “comrade”. You still recall Rychagova. But did Smushkevich, the hero of Spain and Mongolia, not Alksnis "sink" ??? So there is no faith in Alksnis.
            The Yak-1 is the best Soviet fighter of 1941. The most successful pilots of the beginning of the war are pilots of either Ishachkov or Yak-1. Mikhail Baranov, Stalingrad Ace, Hero of the Soviet Union, 26 personal +24 group victories, flew just the same on the Yak-1. AND
            The Yak-1 enjoyed great love, trust and respect from our pilots. And the fact that you are trying to argue about him is this is just an invention. Read Yakubovich- "Yakovlev. Iron Aircraft Designer", and your eyes will open to many things.
            1. yehat
              yehat April 5 2018 17: 06
              +1
              not everything in these books about Yakovlev is true.
              I cannot now point out specific inconsistencies, but when I read Polikarpov’s book, I noticed them more than once with what they say in the books about Yakovlev.
              Personally, I believe that Yakovlev was partly right in what he was doing, based on his experience of populism in aviation, but he did it in such a way that it was better to immediately choose another option. I repeat - work on the Yak was too long. Exhaust from work was too weak. The initial skills and achievements of Yakovlev himself in the design of aircraft with extreme performance characteristics were too weak. Many improvements were implemented simply by copying from the bf-109 design. The issues of support and operation of aircraft in units are also not small - Lavochkin was much better in this regard. In general, I am far from assessing Yakovlev as an outstanding designer.
              Yes, he was an activist and made a brilliant career and in this he is a real master, but
              as a constructor, mediocrity. In the organization of aviation production, I note only that on his account there are both positive and negative events. What more should be considered.
              Many speak arguments in favor of mass aviation, but I will answer that the personnel, infrastructure and economy were not ready for this, and the real release of aircraft was scrapped due to maintenance, lack of performance characteristics in combat, lack of training for pilots, and the unwillingness of the Air Force to coordinate large forces.
              I am sure that half the output, but of high-quality machines, with responsible service at airfields, and supply of spare parts would have a real combat effect no less.
              1. IL-18
                IL-18 April 5 2018 23: 15
                0
                Are you sitting at the "peacefully sleeping airdrome"?
              2. your1970
                your1970 April 6 2018 12: 48
                +2
                Quote: yehat
                I am sure that half the output, but of high-quality machines, with responsible service at airfields, and supply of spare parts would have a real combat effect no less.
                -a if they throw a su-27 / mig 35 (with at least Shilka with T-72 to cover those equipped airfields) - Hitler himself would have left the USSR by the end of the summer .. and maybe he would have gotten into sadness right there fool
                What they could do - exactly what they did at the beginning of the war, no less and no more ...
              3. fighter angel
                fighter angel April 10 2018 10: 32
                +1
                You know, here I look at the whole thing, regarding Alexander Sergeyevich Yakovlev, and these are the thoughts that arise. This "pouring mud" over at Yakovlev did not begin yesterday or the day before yesterday; back in perestroika times this "rethinking" began. So many absurd "theses" were expressed then, and we swallowed it all, tried to believe. Then all our self-consciousness, all national pride, was destroyed and humiliated in this way. All this was carried out under the guise of a "struggle for the truth." And it would seem, but where does Alexander Yakovlev? And very much so. And that's why. No one has popularized our Soviet aviation like him. Remember his books. Boys read "to the holes." And how many of us did these books give a guide to our whole lives? Yes, tens of thousands. Aircraft modeling, flying clubs DOSAAF, VVAUL, flight work, life in Aviation. Not enough if health, engineers, designers. For God's sake! But the most important thing is that for all of us, the first machine, our first “training desk,” WAS EXACTLY YAK !!! Someone else has a Yak-18, Yak-12, those who later, this is Yak-18A, Yak-18T, Yak-52. The road to heaven, we all began with Yak. That's why they began to pour mud on Alexander Yakovlev. They can’t forgive him “our friends” from “abroad” that we have “Winged Tribe” in our country. Thanks to him and his "Yakam"! And not just eat, but it was, is and will be! Despite everything. And whatever one of you here would say about Yakovlev, I bow to this Person, Designer! With a feeling of deep gratitude. And no other way.
                1. yehat
                  yehat April 10 2018 12: 01
                  +1
                  No one disputes that Yakovlev Design Bureau has done quite a bit.
                  I’m talking about something else - in what conditions and due to what it developed and what was the role of Yakovlev in preparing for the war and here there are much fewer good words.
                  It's about Yakovlev’s ascent to the Olympus over the heads of hundreds of people. There is no dirt, it is an objective reality.
                2. svp67
                  svp67 April 10 2018 23: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: fighter angel
                  The road to heaven we all started with Yak

                  And no one is going to deny this. What at the time of your growing up and the beginning of the journey to the sky Yakovlev, as a designer, he achieved perfection. And you didn’t ask yourself how many pilots did N.N. Polikarpov open his way to the sky with his U-2? The trouble is that before the war it was Polikarpov, as a designer, who reached his peak, and Yakovlev was only at the beginning of his journey
            2. Huumi
              Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 50
              0
              scream-Yak - the best fighter - I read to a veteran that I fought on a yak. ​​Nobody ever wanted to fight on it, just because the yaks were constantly covering the silts — they seemed to be created for this — a weak motor, weak design, etc., etc. .yak-3-yes, yes, an extremely high-speed car, but it appeared at the end of the war and there were constant engine overheating up to a fire. Everyone wanted to fight on La. Duck on cobras, it’s not to go there, on Yaks-NO! -NO! As the author said, we’re always downstairs on them, the Germans are more powerful-climb up on us and wait, but we can’t — the light fighter had poor power equipment — they used it — and they sit on us and wait, wait. Chase after them- they go away in a dive-canopy — their speed is higher, their overloads are much higher. They’re gaining height faster .. Rubbish this yak was with the exception of the latest models — Tire 9 refused — although Yakovlev himself offered it to him — and did it = it burned in the first the battle was heavy, like an iron-yak9-d
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        2. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread April 6 2018 13: 53
          0
          He cleared the road for himself.
  16. bionik
    bionik April 4 2018 17: 26
    +1
    LaGG-3 serial fighter in the assembly shop of Gorky Aircraft Plant No. 21. In the second row, La-5 is assembled, a screw with black coca and hood louvers in the center of the photo are visible, in front of it is also La-5 - you can see the shape of the nose of the fuselage. The first production La-5s were released in July-August 1942.LaGG-3 fighter of the 11th series on a ski chassis, equipped with rocket launchers for RS-82 rockets and ZAP-6 incendiary aircraft mounted on DZ-40 bomb racks.
  17. sevtrash
    sevtrash April 4 2018 17: 52
    0
    These three aircraft - Yak1, Mig3, LaGG3 were then the best of all (I16, I153, I180, SAM13, VI100, etc.) that could be taken into service. However, MiG3, LAGG3, due to problems with motors, delta wood, thrust-weight ratio, and motor resources, came down, but the Yak1 remained. So, whatever one may say, they turned out to be unsuccessful - against the background of Yak.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 4 2018 22: 54
      0
      at Mig-1 and Mig-3 the problems were not with the motor.
      1. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 06: 00
        +3
        More precisely, this problem arose at the engine plant; they could not break between the production of low-altitude AM-38 and normal AM-35/37 ((.
        And with the AM-38, the MiG flew heavy and low, although faster at low altitudes.
      2. mark1
        mark1 April 5 2018 06: 52
        +1
        Quote: yehat
        at Mig-1 and Mig-3 the problems were not with the motor

        Well, what if not with the engine ... Poor throttle response, especially at high altitudes, a drop in oil pressure and gasoline supply at the same altitudes, an oil outflow over the entire range, the absence of a gun modification in the collapse of the cylinders, just an engine shortage (like the AM-35 and AM-38) Problems solved but not solved
      3. Huumi
        Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 54
        0
        with a motor-on m 35 problems with overheating-overheated-three hours flew-change dviglo any-one-stage high-pressure supercharger-the result is complete dullness at medium altitudes.
  18. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse April 4 2018 18: 18
    +8
    The article is emotional but very weakly reasoned. Let's just say nothing. Tracing paper from the same "whistleblowers" but just the opposite, the colors changed as in the photo negative.

    What does LAGG-3 mean were used incorrectly? How will be correct? Where are some explanations or arguments? Your mentioned “heavy fighter” is the classic Mustang P-51D with its chic 1650 liter engine at 704 km \ h and 900 kg bomb load under the wing (Pe-2 sighs enviously). What of this did LAGG-3 have? The engine is 1050 l / s and the speed is 575 km \ h? If you came up with your own classification of fighters, then at least explain to the readers what it is based on. What should prevent them from recognizing the LAGG-3 as a well-armed but more than mediocre machine. La-5, by the way, also did not shine with the TTX, only La-5FN of the middle of 1943 became a really strong fighter.

    Well, inserts like the “well-armed” MiG-3 are also amazing .. You seem to be unaware of how two outboard machine guns affected the performance characteristics .. Therefore, they were forced to remove them. Well, large-caliber machine guns for the interceptor, even three pieces are all about nothing. The same "Zero" had two guns since 1939. Yes, even the I-16 type 24 had the same two guns, and it was precisely used in air defense as an interceptor until 1943 and the appearance of the AeroCobra.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 4 2018 22: 56
      +2
      Quote: Saxahorse
      the mentioned "heavy fighter" is the classic Mustang P-51D

      better to bring the P-47. That was a hefty airplane.
      1. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse April 5 2018 15: 20
        0
        Thunderbolt is already inconvenient to call a fighter :) With a take-off mass of 9.5 tons, it’s more like a bomber. At Pe-2, for example, only 7.5 tons take-off.
        1. BV330
          BV330 April 5 2018 20: 46
          0
          Well, 9,5 tons is probably just with 1,5 tons of bonbs, already as much as 2 Pawns comes out on a harmful load).
          1. Huumi
            Huumi 2 June 2018 21: 57
            0
            the pawns didn’t even take 900, they were afraid, they took 600 with an overload of 900 kg. this was the ne-2 pilot told. they tried not to load it 900 to the full
  19. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo April 4 2018 18: 46
    +2
    And the main plus: unlike the Yak and MiG - did not burn. Delta wood did not know how to do this.


    Actually, the fuel burns on the plane.
  20. Blue fox
    Blue fox April 4 2018 19: 06
    0
    [quote = avt] [quote = Blue Fox] Good article, emotional, but good. [/ quote]
    wassat bully Deflection counted! bully [Quote]
    Funny you are right.
  21. Reklastik
    Reklastik April 4 2018 19: 13
    +5
    Roma has a spring exacerbation, he decided that he had learned to think and stood out from the gray mass ....
  22. Curious
    Curious April 4 2018 19: 40
    +3

    I-301, which flashed in front of the public during the May Day parade of 1940 under the control of test pilot Alexei Ivanovich Nikashin.
    In general, if historical justice is restored, then you need to start with Mikhail Moiseevich Kaganovich, who in 1939 headed the People’s Commissariat of the aviation industry. It was he who gave the "green street" to the design of the I-22 fighter, as the future LAGG-3 was originally called.
    But Alexander Sergeyevich Yakovlev did not influence the fate of the aircraft. When he became in January 1940 the deputy commissar of the aviation industry for pilot aircraft construction, I-301 could not affect the acceptance or rejection of it, not his "paraphy." Work on I-301 was supervised by another deputy people's commissar - Pavel Andreevich Voronin.
    In addition, Jacob Taubin should be remembered. It was his 23-mm cannon MP-6 that was supposed to be installed in the collapse of the cylinder blocks. The ammunition was 80 shells. In addition, the armament was made up of two large-caliber BS machine guns (220 rounds of ammunition per barrel). The overload included the installation of two more ShKAS. However, it was for this gun that Taubin was arrested in 1941 with the wording “he was arrested on charges of“ preserving unfinished weapons and launching technically unfinished systems in gross production ”. So the first three LAGG series were completely without guns.
    By the way, regarding LAGGs, it is best to see http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/lagg1.html, http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/lagg3.html and http: // www .airwar.ru / history / av2ww / soviet / lagg3 / l
    agg3.html.
    Firstly, it was stated correctly, as an adult, and secondly, historical justice was fully preserved and the combat path of the aircraft was presented in great detail, right down to which German "experts" it was LAGG-3 that landed.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 5 2018 10: 51
      +2
      Quote: Curious
      In addition, Jacob Taubin should be remembered. It was his 23-mm cannon MP-6 that was supposed to be installed in the collapse of the cylinder blocks. The ammunition was 80 shells. In addition, the armament was made up of two large-caliber BS machine guns (220 rounds of ammunition per barrel). The overload included the installation of two more ShKAS. However, it was for this gun that Taubin was arrested in 1941 with the wording “he was arrested on charges of“ preserving unfinished weapons and launching technically unfinished systems in gross production ”.

      ICH, after studying the documents of KB Taubin and his correspondence, the charge was absolutely true. Taubin liked to design, but did not like to refine his designs and bring them to the series. Instead of fine-tuning the same MP-6, he worked on several more projects - from the machine gun to the ZSU - and also did not finish them.
      1. Curious
        Curious April 5 2018 10: 54
        0
        I wrote about Taubin not as an excuse, but to clarify how the aircraft was designed ..
      2. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 20: 39
        +2
        And it’s clear, after all, that it’s better to shoot the pest right away, having previously been insulted by interrogations, than to force it to focus on fine-tuning and introducing the device into the series of the most necessary country (even if you put a Cerberus from the NKVD and restricting freedom to it. wassat
        1. doktorkurgan
          doktorkurgan April 6 2018 15: 23
          +1
          Yeah. And to summarize with three boxes, get one, get a factory (!), Prepared for mass production of the product - and time after time to break the deadline under the pretext of finalization - this, of course, yes. It's five.
          A side effect, by the way, was a temporary refusal to modify the Berezin machine gun in favor of Taubinsky - because of which the first two years of the war there were terrible shortages on planes in terrible shortage.
      3. doktorkurgan
        doktorkurgan April 6 2018 15: 20
        +1
        Yeah, there is a series of articles by Rastrenin on 23-mm cannons for aviation, published last year in TV and Radio. By reading, especially, by the way, I was pleased with such a topic: the Nudelman did the MP-6 version for tape power on its own initiative. Those. Taubin, as he clung to his milled (!) Clips, never threw it. It's a shame, in general, the design was quite workable.
  23. Declarant
    Declarant April 4 2018 19: 48
    +1
    "And in the air defense of Moscow, Leningrad, and in general, as a LaGG-3 air defense fighter, I went very well. Especially the" five-barreled ones ", with an increased fuel supply. And as a night fighter, it turned out to be quite well too. It could have been in the air for a very long time, useful quality." In fact, Lagg-3 was originally designed as a five-barrel. Subsequently, to reduce weight, the tanks in the consoles were removed to facilitate weight.
  24. doktorkurgan
    doktorkurgan April 4 2018 20: 07
    +2
    It makes sense to remember that in addition to the I-26 (Yak-1) Yakovlev and I-300 Lavochkin, Gorbunov and Gudkov, Klimov’s engines also developed Sukhoi I-135 (Su-1) fighters and the Pashininsky I-21. Moreover, all these fighters were designed for the promising M-106 engine (with take-off power of 1350 hp), the use of M-105 (take-off power of 1100 hp) was supposed to be a temporary solution. I note that on the M-105 series motors in the PF version, the power was only brought up to 1200 hp. in take-off mode, and this was in 1942, which suggests approximately the proposed performance characteristics of new fighters (late Tbilisi LaGG-3 had a maximum speed of 605 km / h; Yak-1 model 1943 (actually pre-production Yak-3) 630 km / h).
    PS: this moment pleased:
    Klimov VK-105 and VK-107 of all modifications are only “Hispano-Suiza” 12Y of model 1932 of the year ...

    Yeah. Compare the French motor (and its Soviet version of the M-100) with a take-off power of 860 hp. and a motor with a take-off power of 1650 hp - yes. It's five. This is approximately how to consider that the Rolls-Royce "Merlin-69" arr. 1943 year. with a rated power of 1670 hp - this is PV-12 (the first prototype) arr. 1934 with a rated power of 740 hp
    1. yehat
      yehat April 4 2018 23: 01
      0
      LaGG-3 had a maximum speed of 605 km / h; Yak-1 arr. 1943 (in fact, pre-production Yak-3) was 630 km / h)

      in reality, front-line vehicles had a speed of 30-50 km / h less.
      mainly due to painting, condition of machines, quality of their operation.
      1. doktorkurgan
        doktorkurgan April 5 2018 00: 00
        0
        Yes, performance characteristics are given for reference machines.
        The Germans, which is typical, had a similar situation - you can see a comparison of captured vehicles with proprietary data.
        1. yehat
          yehat April 5 2018 14: 45
          0
          the Germans' situation was not so deplorable - on average, combat vehicles were inferior to the standards at a speed of 10-25 km / h, and our Air Force these figures were twice as much.
      2. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 05: 53
        0
        And not a single Yak with the M-105PF accelerated 630 km. This is the first prototype of the Yak-3 with this engine flew 628, already on its small wings. With all the culture of pilot production and licking of a new car.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 April 5 2018 09: 42
      0
      VICTOR BAKURSKY - AIRCRAFT FRANCE. PART 2
      It was previously assumed that a significant part of French fighter aircraft would be rearmament on MS.406 in 1938, but the program for their release, pursued by delays in the supply of important parts and equipment, as well as the lack of foresight of the government, faced with a critical shortage of engines, became completely stuck. Until the end of the year, the first production fighters never left the SNCAO assembly line, while Aeroplane Moran-Solnier launched its first production MS.406 in Villacublé on January 29, 1939.
      Insufficient attention was paid to the creation of duplicate enterprises for the production of Hispanic-Suiz 12Y31 motors and the only Ispano-Suiza plant was unable to satisfy all the requirements. In an attempt to expand the “bottleneck” at the end of 1938, they placed an order with the Avia concern in Czechoslovakia for several hundred 12Y31 motors manufactured under license. However, only 30 of them arrived at the SNCAO assembly line before the German occupation of Czechoslovakia eliminated this source of supply.
      Moreover, in May 1939, the French government requested the consent of the USSR government for the supply of 200 M-100 engines - also a licensed version of the 12Y engine, but was refused.
      Subsequently, orders were placed with the Swiss concern Adolf Sauer, who began licensed production of 12Y31 motors at a factory in Arbon for installation on the MS.406H (D-3800), manufactured in Emmen's Eigen Generated Flywheel (EFW). However, nothing is known about the results (if any) of the contract with the Swiss.

      It turns out that the French would be very happy with the "weak" Soviet engines - their "strong" ones were not enough ...
      1. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 16: 38
        0
        Yes, they would be very glad to any motors, practically copies of their relatives.
        After all, war is on the verge. And then just take the motor and put it, all sizes are the same).
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 April 5 2018 16: 43
          0
          And you were wondering why, suddenly, France could not provide itself with engines for fighters? And turned to the enemy of "capitalism" of the USSR?
          1. BV330
            BV330 April 5 2018 18: 25
            0
            IMHO swayed for too long, resting on the laurels of the WWII. And when they saw their backlog from the rapidly growing Luftwaffe, it turned out they were no longer in time - the vices of Gallic democracy).
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 April 6 2018 08: 13
              0
              Perhaps, perhaps -
    3. Huumi
      Huumi 2 June 2018 22: 03
      0
      VK 107 has not yet been finalized, the engine has disappeared. So it’s Spanish, but redesigned ..... about 107 it’s better not to write anything, it wasn’t ...
  25. Dam
    Dam April 4 2018 20: 07
    +1
    Bravo author! No tolerance needed. Iksperds need to be lowered to where they have the right place - down the drain
  26. groks
    groks April 4 2018 20: 30
    +6
    The article is highly artistic, but written in a very yellow style. It has nothing to do with reality. Speculation on Stalin. But at the same time, an obsessive hammering about the lack of our own engines.
    Why did the author need this?
  27. mark1
    mark1 April 4 2018 21: 15
    +4
    The author does not really know the pre-war history of the creation of fighters, the state of our aircraft industry, the problems of engine building (and by the way ASH-82 is not a copy, descendant, relative, etc. of the Wright Cyclone), and as a result draws not quite correct conclusions. In short - LAGG was designed for M-106 Rvzl = 1350 hp and they set M-105 P = 1100l.s + design overweight compared to the design for many reasons, + the greatest number of defects of all three fighters, but it was cheap because of its solid wood and very strong, only the ASh-82 could save the aircraft, here he saved it.
  28. VictorZhivilov
    VictorZhivilov April 4 2018 21: 36
    +1
    And if you want without fantasies, then please. smile
  29. prodi
    prodi April 4 2018 21: 41
    0
    if you make a heavy fighter with a weak engine, then the only way out is to put two of them. Then the experts would have understood everything without further explanation.
  30. shuravi
    shuravi April 4 2018 21: 58
    +1
    Quote: prodi
    if you make a heavy fighter with a weak engine, then the only way out is to put two of them. Then the experts would have understood everything without further explanation.


    Not an option. The mass, material consumption of the structure inevitably grew, and the piloting technique became more complicated. For a mass fighter was not good.
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse April 5 2018 15: 31
      0
      By the way, it was an interesting idea to put two engines in tandem, one after another. I saw this in Soviet and Japanese projects. The result was aerodynamics of a classic fighter but twice as powerful. Well, it’s harder, but at least it was compensated by power.
      1. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 18: 21
        +1
        As a result, the idea turned out to be dead (. In addition to the motors themselves, gearboxes were needed to digest doubled power, synchronization of the operation of 2 motors, a screw, with a limited diameter, this power should be realized, the alignment went far ahead, the fuselage lengthened, etc.
        None of these aircraft with performance characteristics clearly higher than usual could not be created (.
        Here, according to the pull-push scheme, there were successful attempts, and push-pull in general there is a brilliant weight).
      2. Psih86
        Psih86 April 5 2018 21: 45
        0
        Quote: Saxahorse
        By the way, it was an interesting idea to put two engines in tandem, one after another. I saw this in Soviet and Japanese projects.

        The Germans went cooler! In fact, they screwed 2-3 motors to each other (mainly on bombers) ...
        Hmm ... Can I have more about such projects ... It’s just interesting for me to read as a nubian in this matter ...
        I know about the German push-pulls from Dornier .... About the French twin-engine VB-10 too ... But I have not heard about the "drug addict" Japanese and Soviet ...
        1. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse April 5 2018 22: 59
          0
          Bolkhovitinov I-1 with two M-107 engines for example. I don’t remember the name of the Japanese, I have to look.
  31. Jerk
    Jerk April 5 2018 01: 06
    +2
    Well, in parentheses I still notice that there was one, and there was a gross miscalculation. The assumption that we will fight strictly according to the patterns, with little blood and on foreign territory. The Germans therefore stuck ONE, but the UNIVERSAL fighter because they already got their teeth and the brains fell into place. And ours, and from Spain with Finland and Mongolia, did not even endure that they were not fighting the way we would like, the enemy was not sleeping either.
    And what the hell did MIGs in the frontline, for example ?! At the beginning of the war
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 5 2018 11: 12
      +1
      Quote: Jerk
      The Germans therefore stuck ONE, but the UNIVERSAL fighter because they already got their teeth and the brains fell into place.

      Hehe hehe ... the backlash had two fighter - they back in 1937 ordered the future FW-190 for use with Bf.109.
      Quote: Jerk
      And what the hell did MIGs in the frontline, for example ?! At the beginning of the war

      Like what? They were armed with IAP mixed air divisions - like other high-speed fighters.
      The Air Force of the Red Army did not have a classification high-altitude fighter - fighters were divided into high-speed and maneuverable.
      1. Jerk
        Jerk April 5 2018 13: 13
        +1
        Hehe, the second is also a station wagon and the need is caused only by the fact that in-line motors did not have time to rivet. And the "stars" were still available with capacities. If you get to the bottom of the rivets, then there are three grains in one machine, and even more so, the development of LaGG, when they fly as a link in THREE fighter jets, also came with the PMV, precisely because the armament WAS weak, only the three of you somehow opened the bomber. They left the same tactics, and even the weapons of the I-16 cannons have been different for a long time, and the machine-guns in weight of the second volley are not far away.
        That's the hehe in full growth.
        1. BV330
          BV330 April 5 2018 16: 44
          +1
          Not only. The Nazis were not fools, and looked forward at the prospect.
          BF.109 was a universal fighter, and FV-190 - a universal combat aircraft.
          And for example, in the second half of the War, on the eastern front, up to 80% of all aircraft personnel - 190.
          ps: three KK machine guns for WWII - not enough). Better six, or a pair of guns.
  32. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 5 2018 03: 20
    +3
    The main problem in the Red Army, in general, for that time was the rule "die, but do." It did more harm than weak Soviet engines
    And I “heard” this phrase: “die, but do it” in a different “perspective”! In the article, which spoke about the differences between the American and Russian special forces ..... Americans: "Do or die" ..... Russians: "die, but do" Think where it is more correct ....
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 April 6 2018 08: 14
      +2
      Sometimes it’s more difficult to “MAKE AND DO NOT DIE” ...
  33. tasha
    tasha April 5 2018 04: 14
    +3
    I agree with the opinion of some readers - the article is "yellow" and, let’s say, it is written on emotions and the author probably needed to study the issue carefully.
  34. Vovan 73
    Vovan 73 April 5 2018 05: 28
    +3
    Auto RU.
    Roman, your article is just a set of clippings from various online texts.
    Read Shavrov Vadim Borisovich. He has such a book, called "The History of the Development of Aircraft Structures in the USSR from 1938 to 1950". On MiG - 3 you are wrong at all. from the word at all.
  35. BV330
    BV330 April 5 2018 05: 47
    +3
    Quote: metallic
    Too emotionally written :-)
    LaGG had one more minus - delta wood, with which there was some tension during the war.

    More precisely, its complete absence during the war, which at once gave + 100 kg only in the wing (.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer April 5 2018 14: 47
      +2
      Quote: BV330
      More precisely, its complete absence during the war, which at once gave + 100 kg only in the wing (.

      As far as I know, the components of the delta wood, instead of imported ones, were replaced by domestic ones, but their quality was worse, strength deteriorated - which led to the need to increase thickness, which led to an increase in the mass of the LaGG-3 airframe
      1. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 16: 47
        0
        It may well be at first they tried. And after the setbacks, instead of the delta, an ordinary pine tree went, with a double cross section (.
  36. shuravi
    shuravi April 5 2018 09: 50
    +1
    Quote: Jerk
    Well, in parentheses I still notice that there was one, and there was a gross miscalculation. The assumption that we will fight strictly according to the patterns, with little blood and on foreign territory.


    It had nothing to do with real strategy. Siyo was a slogan, populism for the masses of the poorly versed in military affairs, like you. hi


    The Germans therefore stuck ONE, but the UNIVERSAL fighter because they already got their teeth and the brains fell into place.


    Yah? Therefore, at the beginning of the attack, more than a quarter of the IA squad made up twin-engine Bf.110, and in August FW-190 began to arrive in the Luftwaffe? I’m not talking about the gimp He 100. bully


    And ours, and from Spain with Finland and Mongolia, did not bear the fact that they were not fighting the way we would like, the enemy was not sleeping either.


    It seemed to you.

    And what the hell did MIGs in the frontline, for example ?! At the beginning of the war


    What other fighters of the world should do under such conditions. We were at the optimum flight time from the proposed theater.
  37. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte April 5 2018 10: 40
    +4
    Hmm. Some nonsense is refuted by other nonsense.
    1. MiG is not a high-altitude interceptor. It was developed according to the same TTZ for a "high-speed fighter with a water-cooled engine", as competitors did. Good characteristics at high altitudes are obtained by using a reduction of 0,902. Subsequently, they switched to a reduction of 0,732.
    2. Underwing BC machine guns initially on the MiG did not stand. In the TTZ of all promising fighters, the armament of 1hBS 2hShKAS was prescribed. It was planned to create a 20-mm gun based on the UB. For a number of "organizational" reasons, this was not done; it was necessary to strengthen the armament with wing machine guns.
    3. Initially, LaGG was not so heavy (in addition, the M-106 engine was expected, with which the load on power was quite acceptable). The weighting occurred because "not fools" demanded an increase in flight range due to internal tanks. And there was no concept of a “heavy fighter”. The same TTZ on the "high-speed fighter."
    4. Delta wood does not affect fire hazard. Because the fuel is burning. LaGG had a system of pressurizing tanks with neutral gas, and the Yak did not. For example, the Su-2 was also notable for its low fire hazard, although it did not have delta wood in its construction. A boost tanks - had.
    1. BV330
      BV330 April 5 2018 17: 34
      0
      In various ways, strengthened the MiG's weapons. And the underwing gondolas, and the transition to 2hBS + 1shkas, did 800 of these with something, and eventually came to 2hShVAK, but only 52 of them were collected.
      Plus 6 MiG-3U, but this is already 1943.
      1. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte April 6 2018 05: 56
        0
        Even before the war, they designed the placement of 23-mm MP-6 guns in the wing.
        1. BV330
          BV330 April 6 2018 15: 38
          +1
          Well, this is purely in overload, there are more than 200 kg out even with minimal ammunition. Maybe with a debugged AM-37 and I could carry them without a serious decrease in performance.
          In addition, for the MP-6, the ribbon power did not seem to be brought up, and with a bulky “magazine” for 81 shells, aerodynamics would be spoiled for sure.
  38. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer April 5 2018 10: 42
    +5
    Serious articles are not written with such abusive enthusiasm - the author’s bias shows in every line and does not allow a neutral approach to the analysis. And to disassemble (long and repeatedly already disassembled) the pros and cons of the design by specialists and enthusiasts.


    When Alexander Pokryshkin on the MiG-3 is flying around on a reconnaissance tank to look for intelligence, this is nonsense. Nikolai Skomorokhov on LaGG-3, covering the infantry - from the same opera.

    Well, if there is no single beautiful fighter, a level such as the Supermarine Spitfire MkVB, you had to fight on what is. Including on the Lagg-3.
    This is one of the advantages of LaGG-3 - it is better than the I-16 on the vertical, there are almost no other aircraft with similar characteristics before the war. 4 factories, produced just over 320 LaGG-3 aircraft before the war

    So, three intelligent people, two are specialists in aviation, are adopting three aircraft. Three different aircraft. Three completely different aircraft.

    No one imagined at what altitudes the fights will take place, therefore such a variety of designs. And since the modern fighter was “needed yesterday”, they launched all three models in a series, and they were still missing.

    In fact, in the end I want to say only one thing. LaGG-3 was a very thoughtful and competent aircraft.

    Well, well - the personal opinion of an author who is not familiar with the design of aircraft - always an airplane is created under the engine. and the LaGG-105 created under the VK-3 was heavier than the Yak-1 by about 300 kg, very inert during maneuvers.

    And what the pilots thought about him is not to be deleted from history:

    Pilot D.A. Kudymov, who flew on LaGG-3, wrote: "With envy, we looked at comrades who had the good fortune to fight on the Yaks-1. They could fight with any enemy aircraft, despite even the numerical superiority of the enemy."
    1. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte April 5 2018 13: 55
      0
      Quote: DimerVladimer
      LaGG-105 created under the VK-3 was heavier than the Yak-1 by about 300 kg, very inert during maneuvers.

      That's only according to statistics LaGG could withstand 6-8 hits from 20-mm German air guns, and the Yak fell apart after 2-4 such hits.
      1. BV330
        BV330 April 5 2018 17: 31
        +2
        This should be related to the early LaGGs, from the delta. When they switched to pine, the strength of the wing spars for example, should be the same with the Yak. The Germans in their memoirs are full of joyful cries when LaGG was falling apart from the short line of Mass (.
        I also recalled a case on earth when LaGG was torn in half by a gas supply in a pothole (.
      2. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer April 9 2018 09: 50
        +1
        Quote: Snakebyte
        That's only according to statistics LaGG could withstand 6-8 hits from 20-mm German air guns, and the Yak fell apart after 2-4 such hits.


        If you missed the attack - it doesn’t matter how many cannon shells you got - hits affect the handling and strength of the airframe (if it doesn’t catch fire right away). If you hit the power element - for example, in the spar - the wings will be folded in both LaGG and Yak.
        Much more maneuverable Yak - could evade the attack. The LaGG pilot could only rely on his partner to repel the attack.
        And then the wooden structure sharply loses its strength in case of breakdown - the supporting duralumin sheathing is much less prone to destruction from loads, when shooting.
        1. Snakebyte
          Snakebyte April 9 2018 14: 43
          0
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          If you missed the attack - it doesn’t matter how many cannon shells you got - hits affect the handling and strength of the airframe (if it doesn’t catch fire right away). If you hit the power element - for example, in the spar - the wings will be folded in both LaGG and Yak.

          And also, for example, fragments can get into the spar. Be that as it may, the statistics and reviews of the pilots speak in favor of the high survivability of LaGG. In addition, it was very difficult to set fire to because of the boost of the tanks with neutral gas.
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          Much more maneuverable Yak - could evade the attack. The LaGG pilot could only rely on his partner to repel the attack.

          From the point of view of evading an attack, LaGG's maneuverability was no worse. It exceeded the Yak in the angular velocity of the roll. The lack of maneuverability (caused mainly by a high load on power) affected during prolonged maneuvering.
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          And then the wooden structure sharply loses its strength in case of breakdown - the supporting duralumin sheathing is much less prone to destruction from loads, when shooting.

          That's just the carrier duralumin sheathing - this is not about the Yak-1-9. All-metal were only the post-war Yak-9P.
          1. DimerVladimer
            DimerVladimer April 9 2018 16: 49
            +1
            Quote: Snakebyte
            From the point of view of evading an attack, LaGG's maneuverability was no worse. It exceeded the Yak in the angular velocity of the roll. The lack of maneuverability (caused mainly by a high load on power) affected during prolonged maneuvering.


            Well, at the same time, he lost speed faster, and with his tendency to stall at low speeds into a tailspin, this had to be taken into account. What LaGG-3 did not differ - he was very inert - and the turn time was from 22 to 25 seconds (Bf-109F2-F6 about 19,6-20 seconds, Bf-109G2-G6 20,2-21 seconds).
            Those. chances are not much to survive.
            1. Snakebyte
              Snakebyte April 10 2018 07: 59
              0
              Against a vertical attack, there is generally little chance of surviving.
              And the tendency to breakdown was eliminated by installing slats.
              In summary, both fighters were seriously inferior to the Messers.
              They always forget about the maintainability and resource of the glider, which was very low for the lightweight Yak. During the war, this did not matter so much, but the typical story of the Jacob regiment was 3-4 months at the front, and behind the rear was a new materiel. LaGGi also returned to duty several times. A typical example is LaGG-3 b / n 88 Kaberova was repaired at least 5 times after serious combat and operational damage, and in 1943 it was used in the 3 Guards and Military Aviation Administration KBF as a training machine.
  39. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer April 5 2018 10: 52
    +1
    Numerous attempts by Lavochkin and Gorbunov to reduce the mass of the aircraft did not lead to success. As a result, in 1944, LaGG-3 production was curtailed.
    The yaks turned out to be more technological, their design hid the potential for further improvement of the aircraft, which made it possible to increase the flight characteristics of the fighter.
    The yak had good maneuverability. Rate of climb on 5000m Yak-1 in 5,7 minutes, LaGG-3 of the 29th production series did this in only 6,4 minutes.
    The lightest and fastest were LaGGi-3, produced by factory number 31. They had a 20-mm ShVAK gun and a 12,7 mm BS machine gun. For example, fighter No. 6011 with an M-105PF engine, with a power approximately equal to the engine standing on the Yak-7B, developed 25-30 km / h more, had a greater range and ceiling. The downside of LaGGa-3 was its low survivability during shelling.
    http://pro-samolet.ru/samolety-sssr-ww2/istrebite
    li / 60-istrebitel-lagg-3
  40. caiman
    caiman April 5 2018 11: 05
    +2
    nnnda along the way you och is an intelligent expert))) since you say that the bomber was enough to disassemble the armament of the instant, if the main bomber was he111, and the 20mm gun couldn’t always take it before reading the fuin, read the memoirs of the pilots except the tire cover, which was assigned by the shot down by his comrades at the beginning of the war, and in particular with Popkov, (and this is not a rumor and not a fiction, Popkov himself stated this after the war, for which he paid immediately), By the way, suspensions on the wings of an instant were placed in shelves on their own, and not in factories, and the pilots refused them because of the sagging speed and already not very good maneuverability, and therefore didn’t take root in the shelves, Unlike you man, I talked live with veteran pilots, or rather Lavrenenkov, and I remember his words about Lagg well , there weren’t such words about the coffin, of course, but I didn’t hear a single forest word from him about Lagg, according to him, the regiments armed with Lugg-3 suffered heavy losses, you say that Lugg was made as a fighter to destroy the ud of enemy vehicles, WITCH IS COMPLETE, a fighter inferior in all performance characteristics even to e-4, this is not a very good fighter, and what would you know to call stupidity and idiocy that Laggs sent to attack and cover our attack aircraft and bombers, this is not a sign Pts big mind, this is a war my young friend))), and not the exercises at the training ground, where everything is distributed in letters)))), Now about the location of Lagg-3 in parts of Moscow and Leningrad air defense, Here is an extract from official open sources about As part of the country's air defense at the beginning of the war, the Air Force units intended for use for air defense purposes consisted of 40 fighter aviation regiments and had about 1500 aircraft. Of these 40 fighter regiments in the Moscow region, there were 11, 9 in the Leningrad and Baku regions, 4 in the Kiev region, one each in Riga, Minsk, Odessa, Krivoy Rog and Tbilisi; 2 regiments were located in the eastern part of the USSR. Fighters by type were distributed as follows: I-15 - 1%, Yak-1 and MiG-1 - 9%, I-153 - 24%, I-16 - 66% [22]. AND NOT ONE LAGG-3 V There was no air defense, you are a wise expert or you are lying impudently or simply not possessing any info you are trying to fool people, but for this reason this whole pisyulka is bullshit)))))))), and you would stop writing like, still respect yourself at least a little bit,
    1. KERMET
      KERMET April 5 2018 12: 29
      +1
      In short - Excessive enthusiasm for liquid cooling motors, undercover fight ...
      And they could not meet the war on raw, unfinished aircraft
    2. BV330
      BV330 April 5 2018 17: 26
      0
      On the MiG, underwing gondolas with BC were placed in shelves, but according to orders from above, and of factory production. And they were shot for the most part by order, because with KK machine guns a big bummer arose.
      The same Pokryshkin did not want to shoot, they forced (.
      By LaGG I agree with the majority of the above.
  41. hohol95
    hohol95 April 5 2018 12: 29
    0
    Hero of the Soviet Union Guard Major Kardanov K.L.
    Fight 6 LaGG-3 against 70 German aircraft
    In June 1943, our guards fighter aviation regiment was based at the airfield of the village of Staronizhne-Steblievskaya. The regiment was tasked with covering the location of our troops in the area of ​​the village of Kiev. I flew in a group of 6 LaGG-3 to the specified area to cover the ground forces. On the route to the goal, he gained a height of 3000 m. Having flown up to the cover area, he established communication with the ground guidance station. At this time at the guidance station was Major General Aviation Dzusov. The general ordered by radio not to let the German fighters tie us up in battle, since the main task was to prevent the German bombers from reaching the target or, in extreme cases, not to allow targeted bombing. So that in plain sight of the Germans do not circle around six, I ordered a couple of Art. Sergeant Reznik go to the side, gain an excess of 500 m and be in the direction of the sun, without losing me from sight. With the rest of the four, I walked in a large circle at an altitude of 3000 m along the front line. A few minutes later I noticed 6 approaching points. German anti-aircraft gunners fired a volley from one battery in my direction, with this they pointed their fighters at my group. Six FV-190 fighters were in close formation at high speed. As it turned out later, the Germans sent this group specifically to clear the air, with the task of linking my group with battle and to allow bombers to calmly bomb their locations. German fighter bombers of up to 50 Yu-87 followed by 14 Me-109 fighters followed the fighters. An air battle ensued on 6 LaGG-3 with 5 FV-190, 14 Me-109 and 50 Yu-87. Pare Art. Sergeant Reznik, I ordered: "attack from above." He, having a headroom of about 75-100 m, was forced to take a frontal attack. At this time, General Dzusov gave the order by radio: “Do not engage in battle with fighters, but
    attack the bombers. " The situation forced to accept the battle with fighters. During the first attack, one FV-190 was shot down, and three FV-190s, turning around sharply, passed over me. The remaining pair of FV-190 went up and immediately attacked a couple of Art. Sergeant Reznik. As a result, both our fighters were shot down from the first approach. Sergeant Khorenko died, and Art. Sergeant Reznik wounded parachuted. A pair of aircraft Sergeant Reznik was shot down because after the first successful attack she was carried away and, without looking around, immediately rushed at the bombers, not paying attention to the enemy fighters. In addition, this couple (contrary to my instructions) was too far from the general group, which could not therefore render timely assistance to it. This lack of discipline led to the loss of one pilot and two aircraft. Yu-87 flew up to us. I got close to a group of German bombers and with the slogan transmitted by radio, "For Stalin" went on the attack. In the first attack, we shot down two Yu-87 bombers. After that, we entered the ranks of the bombers, which deprived the German fighters of the opportunity to attack us, since they were afraid to hit their bombers. Taking advantage of the confusion of the fighters, we quickly turned around in pairs and went under the formation of German bombers, so as not to be under fire from the shooters of the Yu-87. My partner and I shot down one bomber at the moment I got out of the dive, and the other pair attacked from below and shot down another bomber. Then the second pair unsuccessfully attacked the Me-109 pair and turned around to get closer to me. I again attacked two Me-109s with a pair and went on a rapprochement with my pair. After that we gathered at the link, and I gave the order on the radio not to tear myself away from each other. The German fighters tried their best to beat us in pairs and beat us one by one, but we stayed in a common group and fought an active defensive battle, since there were 14 Me-109s and 5 FV-190s against my four. Attacking my group in pairs, the Germans forced me to engage in a horizontal battle, which was extremely disadvantageous, as this hampered the group’s maneuver and freedom of action. Fighting in a horizontal maneuver does not allow one to occupy an advantageous position for the subsequent attack, entails the rapid fatigue of the flight crew, and, finally, makes it impossible to get close to the enemy and conduct targeted fire. Despite the numerical superiority of the enemy, I and my group shot down four bombers and one FV-190 fighter, losing two planes and one pilot. Given that the battle was fought on LaGG-3 aircraft, which, according to their flight tactical data, were somewhat inferior to the Me-109 and FV-190, we can say that it was a difficult and instructive battle. The following conclusions can be made:
    1. Under no circumstances should you break up a group, but try to keep it in a given layered battle order.
    2. In no case do not lose the high moral and fighting spirit, by your example, support it among subordinates. Bold, swift and comprehensively thought-out actions, as a rule, bring victory.
    3. Lack of fire support (due to improper maneuver and separation from the main group) leads to the disorder of the group as a whole and to an unorganized battle, leading to unnecessary losses.
    4. With a clear organization and management of the battle, successful actions of fighters in a battle with a numerically superior enemy are possible.
    5. A large group of fighters for combat with a small patrol is inefficient, because during the battle the planes interfere with each other. In this case, part of the fighters should be allocated for the battle, the rest should be strengthened by introducing individual pairs, units at crucial moments.
    1. BV330
      BV330 April 5 2018 17: 21
      +1
      It remains to understand what the guidance station was doing with the whole general, while the six LaGGs were driven by one and a half squadrons of Fritz. It seems like mid-1943, not July 1941. During the whole battle, even the link didn’t fly up for reinforcement ((.
  42. shuravi
    shuravi April 5 2018 13: 04
    0
    Quote: DimerVladimer

    Well, well - the personal opinion of an author who is not familiar with the design of aircraft - always an airplane is created under the engine. and the LaGG-105 created under the VK-3 was heavier than the Yak-1 by about 300 kg, very inert during maneuvers.



    Rave. The aircraft is built primarily on the terms of reference. And already taking into account the materials available for the industry, as well as the available serial, experimental and promising engines.
    The same I-16 began his career with M-22 (480 l / s), then modifications M-25, M-62 and ended his career with M-63.


    And what the pilots thought about him is not to be deleted from history:

    Pilot D.A. Kudymov, who flew on LaGG-3, wrote: "With envy, we looked at comrades who had the good fortune to fight on the Yaks-1. They could fight with any enemy aircraft, despite even the numerical superiority of the enemy."



    But this does not negate the fact, X good aircraft + Mediocre, better than just X good.
    LaGG-3 was not built to the detriment of other aircraft. Unlike the MiG-3, when Plant No. 24 was forced to increase the production of AM-38, it was discontinued by AM-35, which sentenced the aircraft.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer April 5 2018 15: 49
      +5
      Quote: shuravi
      The aircraft is built primarily on the terms of reference. And already taking into account the materials available for the industry, as well as the available serial, experimental and promising engines


      Do not bother, unlike you, I had a chance to directly engage in the design of aircraft.
      My graduation project was the development of a helicopter frame and manufacturing technology, including the original slipway.
      So in this thread, my "glass" clearly holds more than your "glass."

      Do not tell me - an engineer who graduated from the specialized faculty of aircraft design, how the design task arises and what the customer comes from, who asks to provide mutually exclusive product characteristics :)))
      And why it was worth docking the Lagg-3 fuselage, designed for a V-shaped in-line ICE, with the M-82 double star - the aerodynamics of La-5 / La7 was prefixing.
      That is why the I-185, which was originally designed for a star engine, with lower engine power, had better characteristics than the conversion of LaGG-3 to La-5.
      One gargrot ate 15 kilometers of speed. And the streamlining of airflows in the engine compartment was occupied only on La-7.

      In addition to the technical specifications, there are also initiative developments - this is when the customer stupidly does not understand where the development of aviation is going. Therefore, the designer creates something that is not limited to those tasks - often gets a breakthrough product.
  43. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone April 5 2018 13: 18
    0
    It would be better to explain why they removed Polikarpov and gave him the design bureau and the factory M and G y? What was the meaning of this rearrangement
    1. BV330
      BV330 April 5 2018 18: 07
      +1
      It would not have been completely removed, but during his trip to Germany (on the instructions of the same NKAP, by the way), a certain OKO was allocated from the design bureau, placed at the head of the young Mikoyan, and given him 80 good engineers. At the same time, the project "X", which later became a MiG.
      Probably it was abundant for someone that NN has a large bureau and many projects (.
      1. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer April 6 2018 11: 55
        +4
        Quote: BV330
        they allocated a certain OKO from the design bureau, put at the head of the young Mikoyan, and gave him 80 good engineers. At the same time, the project "X", which later became a MiG.
        Probably it was abundant for someone that NN has a large bureau and many projects (.


        If they had given it, they were lured by any means: "Mikoyan’s brother is upstairs, if he protects, and Polikarpov is blown away."
        In general, when these young specialists came to him in KB - he picked them up, passed on the experience, and they answered him with such "gratitude" - this is disgusting.
        A number of developments have also been "taken away".
        1. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread April 6 2018 14: 02
          +2
          Another disgusting thing. The most experienced, competent engineers were taken away;
          Polikarpov himself wrote about this that he was forced to put on recent graduates of technical schools for work on I-180, which clearly affected the timing and quality of work.
        2. Peter Ivanov
          Peter Ivanov April 12 2018 13: 31
          0
          Within reasonable limits, no one has canceled the principles of different competition and competition under "social affairs" and under Socialism!
  44. shuravi
    shuravi April 5 2018 13: 24
    0
    Quote: DimerVladimer
    Numerous attempts by Lavochkin and Gorbunov to reduce the mass of the aircraft did not lead to success. As a result, in 1944, LaGG-3 production was curtailed.


    Yes of course. For the 66 series, LaGG-3 has lost 200 kg.
    But it was discontinued because industry by that time completely satisfied the needs of the front with other types of airplanes.
    And the production under these conditions of the LaGG-3 aircraft, structurally close to La-5, was losing its meaning.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer April 5 2018 15: 24
      +1
      Quote: shuravi
      Yes of course. To 66 series LaGG-3 lost 200 kg


      Well, yes, and due to what? Glider? - Partially.
      The take-off weight of the LaGG-3 of the 66th series decreased to 2990 kilograms (which was not much more than the 3 LaGG-1942 lightweight


      What is hiding under such a general term:
      Measures were also introduced to reduce the take-off weight of the aircraft, by facilitating and modernizing aircraft equipment.

      LaGG-3 66th series had a lightweight frame. Although the aircraft was further facilitated by the exclusion from the design of some minor nodes (!!!).
      The ratio of engine power to fighter mass was still much lower than that of other modern fighters. So the mass of aircraft of the 66th series decreased to 2990 kg compared to 3160 kg for aircraft of the 29th series.


      The entire nose of the aircraft was recycled in accordance with the recommendations developed by TsAGI.

      The air intake of the oil cooler, located on the nose of the fuselage, was increased in size and changed in shape. The hood of the aircraft has also been slightly modified. The small air intake under the exhaust pipes also slightly changed its shape and moved a little further to the tail. An additional air intake appeared above the wing base.
      Three large exhaust pipes were replaced by four pipes of a slightly smaller size, the landing light on the left wing was removed, thus, LaGG-3 of the 66th series had no landing lights at all. The rectangular air intake at the base of the wing became oval.
      Bomb holders under the wings of the aircraft received gaps that reduce drag. The radiator cowl, located under the cockpit, again became the same shape and size as the machines of the first series.

      http://fanmodel.tforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=435

      LaGG-3 as it was poorly designed, and no modernization could not bring to a high level, unlike the same Yak-1.
      There you should get acquainted with the further modernization of the La-5 La-7 airframe to understand how crude and vicious the design turned out to be.
      Well, immediately after the war, even La-7 did not last long because of the rotting of the wooden fuselage structure.
  45. fighter angel
    fighter angel April 5 2018 13: 48
    +2
    Novel, great article! Even if in a simple accessible "worker-peasant" language.
    In favor of LaGG-3, I will cite the following facts.
    Hero of the Soviet Union Andrei Kulagin from 163 GIAP, our recognized LaGG-As, having shot down only 3 aircraft on LaGG-26, and 12 of them are messers!
    Or an aerial duel between Alelukhin and Barkhorn near Stalingrad, where the German was never able to defeat our pilot, who piloted LaGG-3.
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse April 5 2018 15: 46
      +2
      Fight and poker is necessary if the bayonet is broken. But this is no reason to declare the poker a successful infantry weapon.
      1. Peter Ivanov
        Peter Ivanov April 12 2018 13: 35
        0
        So an empty fiber case is not a musical instrument! But in the hands of a professional drummer produces amazing sound!
        God forbid you! But if today "shakes", you have to fight in tarpaulin boots and with SKS!
  46. KERMET
    KERMET April 5 2018 13: 59
    0
    Quote: shuravi

    LaGG-3 was not built to the detriment of other aircraft.

    How about this? :
    "From October 1940, plant No. 21 began preparations for the launch of LaGG-3 with a completely different technology, moreover, insufficiently developed for mass production." Let me remind you that I-180 was preparing for production
    1. KERMET
      KERMET April 5 2018 14: 20
      +3
      "... Clever people know that Yakovlev’s proximity to Stalin did not guarantee the work through his sleeves and the provision of welfare regime for his beloved ....."
      I am not so smart, so I want to ask: who could ignore the SNK order of October 2, 1940 and the order of the NKAP No.521 that came out on the same day? And who else could make a front-line fighter with a one-piece wing?
  47. shuravi
    shuravi April 5 2018 14: 14
    0
    Quote: KERMET
    Quote: shuravi

    LaGG-3 was not built to the detriment of other aircraft.

    How about this? :
    Since October 1940, Plant No. 21 began preparations for the launch of LaGG-3 with a completely different technology, moreover, insufficiently developed for mass production



    Are you about the fate of I-180? Well, there is far from everything as rosy as often presented.
    Firstly, I-180, speaking of modern slang, is a deep restyling of I-16 with all that it implies. First, strict in piloting. Of course, an experienced pilot could work miracles on it, but where can they get such pilots during the war?
    Secondly, there were very big problems with the engine, the M-88P did not really bring to mind.
    Thirdly, the aircraft did not have stocks of modernization. It was not possible to install a promising M-82 on it.
    1. BV330
      BV330 April 5 2018 17: 16
      +4
      "Thirdly, the aircraft did not have modernization reserves. It was not possible to install a promising M-82 on it."

      It is strange to replace one air double-row star with another, just the smallest of a larger diameter, is not possible at all, but Lavochkin succeeded in-line dropsy with the same star).
      Severity? He was simpler than a donkey in piloting, and there were thousands of people who mastered this awkward skate in the country, it would be quite feasible for them to master a new supershack, and without mentioning that with regard to the advanced MiG, the average pilot on it automatically became weak, and the weak one generally almost couldn't fly. "
      During the war, the combat pilot took the pilot machine directly from the design bureau during its evacuation. After a short briefing, he flew out, and after a couple of hours he called with thanks for the supercar. Probably lying (.
      1. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer April 6 2018 12: 10
        +2
        Quote: BV330
        It is strange to replace one air double-row star with another, just the smallest of a larger diameter, is not possible at all, but Lavochkin succeeded in-line dropsy with the same star).


        And not only at Lavochkin - on the MiG-3 they interrupted the M-82 (MIG-9).
        Due to the sharp transition from the circular cross-section of the hoods to the oval cross-section of the fuselages - La-5, turbulent flows formed, which led to a problem of oscillations - it was impossible to stabilize the La-3 for about 5 seconds after exiting the bend - which interfered with the shooting and affected the accuracy of the fire .
        1. Peter Ivanov
          Peter Ivanov April 12 2018 13: 40
          0
          I am convinced that these are the machinations of the tandem of Novodvorskaya and U. Churchill !!! ; +))
    2. Tula gingerbread
      Tula gingerbread April 6 2018 14: 07
      +1
      But it’s not true. Read the reports of test pilots, the I-180 no longer had such a rear alignment as the I-16 and was more stable and not so strict and was accessible to a pilot of average skill.
      The other was a plane, to present the matter in such a way that it was an I-16 with a double-row star mounted on it was fundamentally wrong.
  48. Supervisor
    Supervisor April 5 2018 14: 29
    0
    Thank you TC An excellent article and I have no complaints about the style. plus.
  49. KERMET
    KERMET April 5 2018 14: 33
    +1
    Quote: shuravi

    Are you about the fate of I-180? Well, there is far from everything as rosy as often presented.
    Firstly, I-180, speaking of modern slang, is a deep restyling of I-16 with all that it implies. First, strict in piloting. Of course, an experienced pilot could work miracles on it, but where can they get such pilots during the war?
    Secondly, there were very big problems with the engine, the M-88P did not really bring to mind.
    Thirdly, the aircraft did not have stocks of modernization. It was not possible to install a promising M-82 on it.

    Since the planes are similar, it means the I-180 is well mastered by industry and pilots, aerobatics there due to a change in alignment will improve, problems with the engine were solved by December 1940. As for modernization and - back to I-185
  50. shuravi
    shuravi April 5 2018 15: 34
    0
    Quote: KERMET

    Since the planes are similar, then the I-180 is well mastered by industry and pilots,


    And what for to launch a dead end machine in a series?
    As for the pilots, what does not reach you in any way. What is it in peacetime you can allow yourself to prepare flight crews for a long time and carefully. But several months of war pass and there are no old cadres. Beginners come from crash courses. And what, they get into strict cars. Will they get a lot of war?
    I-180, as well as I-16 planes of peacetime and the outbreak of war.

    aerobatics there due to changes in alignment will improve,


    The same LaGG-3 is 8,8 meters long, I-180 is all 7.


    engine problems by December 1940 solved.


    They didn’t decide anything.

    As for the modernization and - back to I-185


    Which did not have an engine and was very bad for production in wartime.


    PS

    In general, it touches the method of the local and not only "strategists" to judge only by the performance characteristics of the aircraft. Absolutely not considering other aspects.
    And also the fact that in a war two mediocre aircraft is better than one good.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer April 6 2018 12: 56
      +3
      Quote: shuravi
      The same LaGG-3 8,8 meter long, I-180 total 7


      The longer the plane — the less willing it is to maneuver — sluggishly.
      The manufacturability of the I-185 was higher, comparable to the I-16, LaGG-3 was less technological. Where on I-180 I-185 riveting was made quite quickly.
      The fuselage and wings of the LaGG-3 had to be glued, dried to dry at a certain temperature, and additional processing was carried out - per person hours the LaGG-3 fuselage took 2 more time than other materials, it was a little cheaper according to the materials - it is pine and pine. Materials for the production of delta wood were no less scarce during the war - which is why they switched to pine.
      However, of course, no one thought to change the established production - in conditions of a shortage of fighters - before the 1944 year - this is justified in those conditions.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET April 6 2018 21: 22
        +2
        It’s still a pleasure to fight on LaGG-3 in the 44th year ...