Military Review

"Ledum" and "Derivation-Air Defense". Air Defense News

46
At present, the domestic defense industry is developing several prospective small-radius anti-aircraft systems for certain types of troops. Systems on different chassis are offered, using different means of destruction, etc. At the very end of March, defense complex enterprises told about their recent successes in the development of promising anti-aircraft complexes.


30 in March, the press service of Rostec State Corporation published data on the activities of the High-Precision Complexes Holding, which is part of the latter. The report indicated the main results of the holding's activities in the past 2017 year. Key financial indicators, successes and achievements were indicated. Among other things, the press release touched upon the development, testing and adoption of completely new models of military equipment.


LAW "Pine" module "Ledum" on the battlefield. Figure KB Precision engineering / kbtochmash.ru


Reportedly, in 2017, state tests of the latest Bagulnik anti-aircraft missile system were completed. Tests are recognized as successful, which opens the way for the complex troops. The next event in the “biography” of the promising air defense system, as the press service of Rostec writes, is now being adopted.

Unfortunately, reports on the completion of state tests were not accompanied by any new technical details. but news about passing checks are interesting in and of themselves. In addition, certain information about “Ledum” appeared before, and therefore new messages complement the emerging picture.

Also 30 March, there were news about the progress of another project being developed in order to increase the potential of military air defense. This is an anti-aircraft artillery complex ZAK-57 "Derivation-Air Defense", created in the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" (part of the research and production corporation "Uralvagonzavod"). Georgy Zakamennykh, General Director of the Institute, spoke about the progress of work, recent successes and the expectations of the authors of the project.

According to the director general of the Petrel Research Institute, the first prototype of the newest anti-aircraft complex has been built so far. Now he is at the stage of preliminary tests. Clarifies that the main weapons A promising combat vehicle is the 57-mm automatic cannon. Such weapons will give it certain advantages and will allow to solve a wide range of combat missions. First of all, ZAK-57 is designed to attack aerial targets, but its effective use on ground targets is not precluded.

This time, the official representative of the developer organization also did not disclose the technical details of the promising project. However, some information about domestic developments in the field of artillery caliber 57 mm was repeatedly announced in the recent past, and now some assumptions or conclusions can be made.

"Bagulnik" is ready for adoption

According to known data, in the composition of the holding company “High-precision complexes”, the design of the “Bagulnik” project is being carried out by the Design Bureau of Exact Machine-Building named after A.E. Nudelman. This company has extensive experience in the development of anti-aircraft missile systems, and therefore he was entrusted with the creation of a new system. The goal of the project is to create an air defense missile system similar to some existing combat vehicles, but having noticeable advantages over them. First of all, it was necessary to get a gain in range and reach in height.

"Ledum" and "Derivation-Air Defense". Air Defense News
"Ledum" at the site. Photo Rbase.new-factoria.ru


In different sources, it was previously indicated that the Bagulnik air defense missile system was a deeply modernized version of the Strela-10М3 complex. The task of improving the basic characteristics will be solved with the help of a number of new devices and instruments. The complex must use the new shooting module with the designation 9П337. The name “Ledum” was originally related to it. A new guided missile 9М340 was also developed. The new equipment was designed to increase the area of ​​responsibility of the air defense system, as well as to improve the main technical characteristics.

It is known that the Bagulnik complex uses only optical-electronic systems for monitoring the air situation, searching for and tracking targets; radar in the project is not provided. The shooting module is equipped with a "classic" set in the form of a video camera, a thermal imager and a laser rangefinder. With the help of such equipment, the air defense system will be able to find targets and prepare for the launch of rockets. The maximum target detection range depends on a number of factors and can reach 25-30 km - significantly more than the missile launch range.

9М340 guided missiles are based on some already proven ideas and solutions, but they have certain advantages over older types of weapons. The missile is guided by a laser beam received by devices in its tail section. According to various sources, the missiles of the new model will be able to hit air targets at ranges up to 10 km and altitudes up to 5 km. The maximum speed of the target is at the level of 900 km / h, which allows the “Bagulnik” to deal with aircraft of different classes.

The first information about the work with the code "Bagulnik" appeared in the second half of the last decade. Subsequently, a project with this name was mentioned several times in different contexts, and not so long ago it became known about the tests of a prototype. At the same time, from a certain time, the name “Ledum” was attributed only to the firing module, while the whole complex was generally called “Pine”.

The first experimental "Pine" with the module "Bagulnik" was built and presented to a narrow circle of specialists back in 2013 year. A year later, preliminary tests took place. Subsequent inspections and refinement took a few more years. In the middle of last year, the complex was released for state trials. Then it was claimed that the last stage of inspections will end in the 2018 year. According to the latest official reports, state tests were carried out back in 2017. Thanks to this, now the industry and the Ministry of Defense can decide on the adoption of equipment for armament, the deployment of mass production and the beginning of deliveries to the troops.

"Derivation-Air Defense" entered the landfill

It should be noted that information on the existence of a prototype of the anti-aircraft artillery complex "Derivation-Air Defense" is not new. Back in January, the Petrel Research Institute for the first time showed such a machine, which at that time was located in one of the company's workshops. After that, it was worth waiting for news about the start of tests. As the head of the Institute pointed out a few days ago, now an experienced self-propelled gun is on preliminary tests.


General view of the self-propelled gun 2C38 "Derivation-air defense". Photo Russianarms.ru


The project “Derivation-Air Defense” is one of the representatives of a fairly large family of equipment currently being developed with the aim of significantly increasing the firepower of the ground forces. The essence of this family lies in the use of the combat module, equipped with an automatic gun caliber 57 mm. Surpassing the standard for the current combat vehicles small-caliber guns on the main indicators, such a gun is able to give its carrier a unique combat capabilities. At the same time, the module with the 57-mm submachine gun can be used for solving various tasks: it has already been mounted on an infantry fighting vehicle, armored personnel carrier, etc.

Last summer, during the Army-2017 military-technical forum, the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate and the Burevestnik Central Research Institute announced a new project called Derivation-Air Defense, called 2-38. A little later, another designation became known - ZAK-57. This project involves the use of 57-mm guns as a means of air defense. At the same time, from the point of view of the main features of the new combat vehicle, it differs insignificantly from other equipment of a similar appearance.

The 2C38 project provides for the use of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle chassis, on which the modified AU-220М “Baikal” combat module with an automatic 57 caliber mm gun is mounted. The module should receive optical-electronic means and a fire control system optimized for solving air defense tasks. Detection and tracking of targets is proposed to be carried out using an optical-electronic system with day and night channels, as well as with a laser rangefinder.

Earlier it was claimed that the applied optics would allow finding full-size airplanes and helicopters at distances of at least 6-6,5 km and immediately open fire on them. For small unmanned aerial vehicles, the maximum detection range is limited to 500-700 m. The effective range of the fire on the aerial target was determined in 6 km, height - to 4,5 km. The maximum target speed is 500 m / s. If necessary, “Derivation-Air Defense” will be able to fire not only on aircraft or helicopters, but also on ground-based equipment or stationary objects. As the authors of recent projects have repeatedly emphasized, the 57-mm gun ensures the defeat of any modern light and medium armored vehicles.

In late January, it became clear that the Petrel Research Center, in cooperation with other organizations of the domestic defense industry, completed the construction of the 2C38 Derivation-Air Defense experimental vehicle and the 9Т260 transport and charging system designed for its maintenance. Thus, the beginning of the test was only a matter of time. According to recent official statements, preliminary tests have already begun. At the same time, the deadlines for completing ongoing inspections or the entire complex of tests, including state tests, have not yet been specified.

Future air defense

Both new models of anti-aircraft systems, which defense industry enterprises told at the end of March, are being developed in the interests of military air defense. At the armament of such units at the present time there are complexes of different classes and types, both quite old and modern. In the foreseeable future, their vehicles will be replenished with completely new samples.


Transport-loading machine 9Т260 and combat 2С38 in the workshop, January 2018. Photo NPK "Uralvagonzavod" / uvz.ru


As follows from the previously announced information, the project “Bagulnik” / “Pine” is intended to replace the aging samples of the air defense system on self-propelled chassis. It uses already tested ideas and solutions, but they are implemented using modern component base and relevant technologies. Ultimately, this allows you to improve the basic technical characteristics of the missiles and the combat qualities of the complex as a whole. The gradual replacement of the relatively old systems of the Strela-10 family with the new “Ledum Eggs” will increase the combat potential of the military air defense system in the fight against actual threats.

Currently, there are several anti-aircraft complexes equipped with automatic guns. In this case we are talking about 30-mm anti-aircraft guns. The new project ZAK-57 / 2C38 / "Derivation-Air Defense" provides for the use of more powerful 57-mm guns, due to which it is possible to increase both the reach in range and height, and the impact on the target. Also, to a certain extent, the "associated" potential of self-propelled guns in terms of combat ground equipment. The new machine "Derivation-Air Defense" has not yet passed all the necessary tests, and therefore its adoption - if the army makes such a decision - should be expected in the distant future. At the same time, one should expect a noticeable increase in the combat capability of the military air defense.

In recent years, the Russian Ministry of Defense has paid special attention to the creation of new air defense systems of all the necessary classes. The newest projects “Bagulnik” and “Derivation-Air Defense” are created in full accordance with such plans and are designed to ensure the safety of troops on the march and in positions in the medium and long term. As it became known a few days ago, one of the new projects in the near future will have to give the desired results. The second is also close to the expected final. At the same time, it is already possible to assert that in the future the air defense of the ground forces will definitely not be left without a new technology, which has significant advantages over existing samples.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rostec.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://burevestnik.com/
https://kbtochmash.ru/
http://russianarms.ru/
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  1. zoolu350
    zoolu350 April 3 2018 05: 16
    +2
    But isn’t it easier to combine them and instead of separate ZAK and air defense systems to make air defense missiles on one machine, because everything is perfectly combined.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 06: 39
      +2
      Quote: zoolu350
      because everything goes well.

      Oh oh
      Quote: zoolu350
      instead of separate ZAK and air defense systems, make air defense missile systems on the same machine

      You can do something ... and you will get an assembly similar to the modernized "Shilka-M5" (and the "anti-aircraft gun" is not very, and a little air defense ...)!
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 3 2018 09: 34
        +1
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        You can do something ... and you will get an assembly similar to the modernized "Shilka-M5" (and the "anti-aircraft gun" is not very, and a little air defense ...)!

        In order to say so, one must have at least the test results on hand, and since they are not and are not expected, then there is nothing to be said about. Although I believe that a spark of 57 mm + missiles will appear soon, but most likely not with us.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 11: 55
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          you must have at least the results of tests on hand, and since they are not and are not expected, then there is nothing to say.

          That's it ! There is nothing to talk about ... to
          Quote: svp67
          instead of separate ZAK and air defense systems, make air defense missile systems on the same machine
      2. Nikolay Ignatiev
        Nikolay Ignatiev 21 February 2021 23: 40
        0
        It is difficult to assemble and place different types of ammunition. Stock of rockets and stock of shells. the car is not rubber. And the shells are not 30mm rounds. in the tape. And individual shells in the ammunition or in the conveyor.
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 3 2018 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: zoolu350
      But isn’t it easier to combine them and instead of separate ZAK and air defense systems to make air defense missiles on one machine, because everything is perfectly combined.

      In our bureaucratic system, no. Each of these “units” made their own concern and they will unite in our reality.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 3 2018 10: 00
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        unite they in our reality can not

        The point is not “our reality”, but the weight of the hypothetical attitude that combines the two complexes.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch April 3 2018 10: 50
          +7
          more precisely, in weight and dimensions. 57mm fluff + a dozen rockets plus some kind of guidance system, even without a radar, this is what it will turn out, next to it the current Shell will seem like a miracle of compactness
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 3 2018 11: 01
            +2
            Quote: sivuch
            next to it, the current Shell looks like a miracle of compactness

            Well, I don’t think that more "Tunguska" ...

            or ZSU-57-2, which has space for equipment, rockets and radar ... LOT
            1. sivuch
              sivuch April 3 2018 11: 09
              +3
              Photo from Latrun? I was there recently. And where is the place? You don’t put anything on the roof, because there is no roof, the installation is half-open. Inside, too crowded, for each barrel has its own loader. And if you put the AZ, and with a decent BC, so they will eat the entire volume
              1. svp67
                svp67 April 3 2018 11: 17
                +2
                Quote: sivuch
                And if you put the AZ, and with a decent BC, so they will eat the entire volume

                To begin with, in the "Derivation" TAPE FOOD.
                Quote: sivuch
                And where is the place? You don’t put anything on the roof, because there is no roof, the installation is half-open

                We continue by the fact that I do not propose to restore the production of an exact copy of the ZSU-57-2, but simply showed that such machines were already there and it can be done anew, in the image and likeness of the same "Tunguska" or "Shell-S"

                1. sivuch
                  sivuch April 3 2018 11: 50
                  +2
                  To begin with, in "Derivation" TAPE FOOD
                  I would also like to continue. Since all the previous information does not confirm this. At PT-76 with AU-220, which Petrel shoved Vietnam there was a turret carousel, and for the current Derevation, the Nevsky Bastion writes the following -
                  An improved 57-mm artillery system based on the S-60 cannon is used to store ammunition, supply and firing shots offered by the Central Research Institute "Petrel".
                  Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/zak-57-derivation-pvo/ MTC "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko
                  I’ll remind you that there were never any tapes on the S-60, only tapes
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 April 3 2018 12: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: sivuch
                    An improved 57-mm artillery system based on the S-60 cannon is used to store ammunition, supply and firing shots offered by the Central Research Institute "Petrel".

                    Quote: sivuch
                    I’ll remind you that there were never any tapes on the S-60, only tapes

                    Thanks for the reminder, but once again carefully read the news from the Central Research Institute "Petrel" and you will see the word there IMPROVED
                    And here's another one:
                    AU220M Baikal - Russian uninhabited combat module with a 57-mm gun developed by the Central Research Institute "Petrel".
                    AU-220M is made in the form remotely controlled an artillery installation intended for installation on promising and modernized combat armored vehicles in order to increase the firepower of motorized rifle and infantry units.

                    That is, leaving the barrel with excellent ballistic data, the NECESSARY changes were made in this gun in order to ensure its operation in an UNABINABLE combat module. Anything else to clarify?
                    1. sivuch
                      sivuch April 3 2018 13: 34
                      +1
                      It is necessary. Because there were no pictures with tape power, but there were only carousels.
            2. tima_ga
              tima_ga April 4 2018 20: 42
              0
              As an option, take the Terminator chassis and do it in two versions with the AU-220M: support for tanks and infantry, and air defense. Accordingly, with the PTRK and with the Zur and the "radar". The chassis will withstand unification, but mobility is lower than that of the lungs (MTLB, etc.)
            3. ty60
              ty60 21 October 2018 20: 52
              0
              Will you carry rockets inside?
      2. storm
        storm 9 March 2019 23: 35
        0
        If they cannot unite in one machine, they will be able to work together as part of the batteries and military air defense divisions.
        It may turn out to be a good option to combine these systems on the basis of a two-wheeled tractor, like the Arctic air defense system of the TOP.
        At the front link of ZAK-57
        At the second link of the PU SAM 2X8 or 4X6
    3. Setrac
      Setrac April 3 2018 17: 47
      +1
      Quote: zoolu350
      But isn’t it easier to combine them and instead of separate ZAK and air defense systems to make air defense missiles on one machine, because everything is perfectly combined.

      It is necessary to combine not a snake with a hedgehog (ZAK with SAM), but missile systems for various purposes. So that the URO tank could hit various types of missiles with air, ground targets and long-term fortifications.
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 April 3 2018 17: 54
        0
        Tank URO - fun. And what missiles will it be: universal or diverse? Missile guidance system: RL, TGSN, LLN or something else? Ammunition of all named abundance? And the mass of the URO tank? (will the bridge pass? Will it fit on the railway platform?)
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 3 2018 19: 17
          +2
          Quote: zoolu350
          Tank URO - fun.

          Frigate or destroyer URO you are not having fun?
          Quote: zoolu350
          And what missiles will it be: universal or diverse?

          Diverse of course.
          Quote: zoolu350
          Missile guidance system: RL, TGSN, LLN or something else?

          It rashat designers.
          Quote: zoolu350
          Ammunition of all named abundance?

          18-36 missiles.
          Quote: zoolu350
          And the mass of the URO tank? (will the bridge pass? Will it fit on the railway platform?)

          Like MBT, no more
  2. Vitas
    Vitas April 3 2018 05: 44
    +4
    It turns out the 57th will go to the troops and most likely will work on land ... and air defense will be a bonus. If you combine them, then get Shell 2? Sense then ?!
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 07: 15
      +8
      Quote: Vitas
      57-I will go to the troops and most likely will work on land ... and air defense will be a bonus

      Most likely, that's right! Now, some "military observers" are trying to position the 57-mm artillery system as an effective anti-helicopter tool .... At the end of the 20 century, this topic: "anti-aircraft helicopter" was really seriously discussed by the military, both in NATO and in the USSR ... In Italy, they even lured the experimental 76-mm ZSU "OTOMATIC .....", and in the USSR, articles appeared in military magazines calling not to remove the ZSU-57-2 in the troops and even to "return, hundredths" It is possible that at that time it made sense. But you can’t enter the same water twice! At that time, 57-mm and 76-mm anti-aircraft guns could fight with helicopters on an equal footing (somewhere around 6 km ...). Currently, the "range" of helicopter ATGMs is growing and has a further upward trend! I agree that the 57-mm “Derivation” is useful for protection against helicopters, as well as for the destruction of single (small groups) of drones ... but this is like a “bonus” (as you noticed)) ... The main use of the installation will be against ground targets. (I think so! As Mimino said ....)
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 3 2018 09: 36
        +2
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Now, some "military observers" are trying to position the 57-mm artillery mount as an effective anti-helicopter tool ....

        But, others point to the SPECIAL usefulness of new ammunition under the 57-mm anti-aircraft gun for fighting UAVs ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 11: 14
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          But, others point to the SPECIAL usefulness of new ammunition under the 57-mm anti-aircraft gun for fighting UAVs ...

          Somehow, a story “sounded” on one of the TV channels (I don’t answer for identity ... only approximation (similarity): .... well .... like: American schoolchildren were given the task: there are X wheels for 2-wheels in the warehouse bicycles and At the wheels for 3-wheeled bicycles ... how many bicycles can be assembled (in general!) One schoolboy (a “migrant” from Russia) replied: not a single one! Why? Because one wheel is not enough to assemble bicycles! wink
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 3 2018 11: 31
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Because wheels alone are not enough to build bicycles!

            A smart guy and I agree with him. But for assembly, you can throw other “components and assemblies” from another warehouse, you look and a full-fledged bicycle will work out.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 11: 48
              0
              Quote: svp67
              For assembly, you can toss other "components and assemblies" from another warehouse, you look and a full-fledged bicycle will work out.

              Well, then there is no problem ... wink The flag is in your hands! fellow
              PS The presence in the ammunition shells with programmable detonation is now no longer a "wish", but a necessity!
              1. svp67
                svp67 April 3 2018 11: 49
                +1
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                PS The presence in the ammunition shells with programmable detonation is now no longer a "wish", but a necessity!

                And this is so.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac April 3 2018 17: 51
              +3
              Quote: svp67
              But for assembly, you can throw other “components and assemblies” from another warehouse, you look and a full-fledged bicycle will work out.

              With such data, the problem is unsolvable, because from another warehouse they can throw wheels, and how many are not in the initial data.
          2. serg2108
            serg2108 April 3 2018 18: 14
            +2
            Zadornov told this story ....
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 3 2018 10: 12
        +3
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        At that time, 57-mm and 76-mm anti-aircraft guns could fight with helicopters on an equal footing (about 6 km ...). Currently, the "range" of helicopter ATGMs is growing and has a further upward trend!

        The Italian 76-mm DRACO, using guided DART shells, is quite capable of protecting the positions of troops from helicopters. Since it is capable of shooting down their means of destruction, as well as UAVs, which have to be used for target designation during long-range shooting from helicopters.
        In addition, the installation can be used for C-RAM, that is, to protect against artillery ammunition, especially managed and adjusted.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 11: 22
          0
          It could have been .... but time passed "to no avail"! Maybe: "Stop Dunya cry and sob .... what has passed, then do not remember!" ?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 3 2018 12: 43
            +2
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            It could have been .... but time passed "to no avail

            In fact, this is a promising model of weapons.

            They just can’t decide in any way, or the expensive long-range and more versatile 76 mm DRACO with a maximum range of 6000 meters

            or a much cheaper 20-mm PORCUPINE, which will perform the task of exclusively combating means of destruction (including those controlled by aircraft), covering, as they say, a 400x400-meter section with each installation.

      3. tima_ga
        tima_ga April 4 2018 20: 49
        0
        Well, since then, science has gone ahead: guided ammunition, rate of fire, automation, detection thread ... After all, guided ammunition is cheaper than the simplest zur
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 3 2018 12: 18
      0
      Quote: Vitas
      It turns out the 57th will go to the troops and most likely will work on land ...

      Moreover, it is considered for installation on the T-15
      1. tima_ga
        tima_ga April 4 2018 20: 51
        0
        But in combination with PTRK - such as the development of the Terminator. And it’s possible to make an air defense version with zur ...
  3. Alex_59
    Alex_59 April 3 2018 06: 50
    +3
    Apparently this derivation is destined for the place of a combat support vehicle for a tank support combat vehicle. Crawling behind something heavier and watering the buildings around from his 57-mm gun for the slaughter of the Fausters. Because there is no air defense from it, this is already clear.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 3 2018 12: 21
      0
      Quote: Alex_59
      Because there is no air defense from it, it is already clear

      Yes, how can I say, it was from C-60 that the "barmalei" in Syria, one of our turntables, was "hard-landed" and shot at our Rooks, even one shot ...
      Quote: Alex_59
      Apparently this derivation is destined for the place of a combat support vehicle for a tank support combat vehicle.

      The option of installing it on TBMP T-15 is being considered.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 April 3 2018 12: 35
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        Yes, how can I say, it was from C-60 that the "barmalei" in Syria, one of our turntables, was "hard-landed" and shot at our Rooks, even one shot ...

        Well, in Afghanistan, the Basmachi also landed a lot of things from the DShK, but we won’t now base the prospective air defense on the basis of pack calculations for the DShK with donkeys.
        From my point of view, there is another cut. The nomenclature of armaments is being produced. Despite the fact that much could be done on the basis of the same Tunguska. I still understand the shell, and then where else? What will be the military air defense based on all this variegation? An outdated generation that has not yet left - Shilka and Arrow-10. The present generation is Tunguska and the update based on it in the form of a Shell. And now, Ledum and Derivation. Add to this something else there that is not unique for the Airborne Forces (I don’t remember the name). And in the same niche, in fact, Thor and the obsolete Wasp hang out now.
        I understand that we have a rich country, but not as much. In my understanding, all the new items had to be introduced through the modernization of Tunguska. Let it not be "having no analogues in the world", without a unique super 57-mm gun. Figs with him. But let there be standardization and unification. One complex for the entire army. Well, let the airborne forces have something of their own, they have specifics.
        And to do a separate complex around the 57-mm gun is too much for me. We are not basmachi. I doubt that a normal opponent will let her shoot at an aerial target in reality. And against a weak adversary, it is all the more unnecessary.
        If you don’t live, you don’t have to use 57-mm - put them on all BMPs, as a full-time + detachable radar and train the gunner to chop in helicopters. And the exchange of information in a single network with air defense do. At BPM, at least it will be honestly stated that 99% of the firing will be conducted on the ground, as the Derivation will actually do.
        1. LastPS
          LastPS April 5 2018 14: 59
          0
          This car makes sense, just because of unification - the transition to a promising 57mm caliber. The air defense function is more likely applied - the main objectives will most likely be UAVs and ground targets, rather than helicopters, simply because the ATGM range is now far beyond five kilometers. Dragging expensive, vulnerable Tungusks to the cutting edge, if a much cheaper alternative can be used - why?
  4. tchoni
    tchoni April 3 2018 07: 20
    +1
    Again, forging a "wunderwaffe"? instead of what is already available to produce and bring to mind? Nude ...
    It was previously claimed that the optics used would allow finding full-size aircraft and helicopters at ranges of at least 6-6,5 km and immediately open fire on them. For small unmanned aerial vehicles, the maximum detection range is limited to 500-700 m.
    And I’m embarrassed to ask: "And this is in which sector of the review?" And how smartly will the crew search for targets? and what will happen if the target appears not from the front, but from the rear (nevertheless, la is a rather nimble contraption)?
    1. sivuch
      sivuch April 3 2018 11: 01
      +2
      And do not be shy, but tell me with concrete confidence, like the previous speaker. For the previous version of the EIA, a sector of the order of 180 degrees was indicated, as in this case, n / a. The reaction time is a few seconds. And in order to appear from the rear, the targets must fly somewhere else where their air defense systems should be. Perhaps you have heard that not a single air defense system is supposed to be used in splendid isolation. Even for Osa and Torah, which are officially called Autonomous and can work in the 360-degree sector, the main work is to work together with receiving the TS from the senior boss. But Ledum is just positioned as a replacement for the S-10, which, by the way, performed well in Iraq
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 3 2018 07: 29
    +1
    We must not "forget" that under the name "Pine" (laser beam guidance) "there are 2 missiles: 9М337 and 9М340 ... SAM 9М337 (n.d.-8 km; a.a.-3,5 km) was originally created for the Tunguska air defense missile system .... 9M340 SAM (n.a.-10 km; a.a.-5 km) is one of the latest developments. Recently indicated speed: 900 m / s; but originally called speed: 1200 m / s and called a hypersonic missile ..... yes
  6. viktor.ivanov.kordon
    viktor.ivanov.kordon April 3 2018 16: 17
    0
    ZAK - 57 has no prospects. As an air defense system, it’s ineffective, even for helicopters, because of its low ammunition and low rate of fire, for ground targets — it doesn’t take tanks because of the low armor penetration of the BPS, and for light-armored targets, on the contrary, the BPS is too powerful for tank dangerous manpower is useless, due to the flat trajectory of the HE shell due to the high initial speed. The large C-60 gun case was designed to achieve maximum range of anti-aircraft targets in offshore conditions for firing cannons with cooled barrels. The use of this cartridge case in a ground vehicle is a dead end direction, although the 57 mm caliber is good.
  7. shuravi
    shuravi April 3 2018 19: 35
    0
    Quote: viktor.ivanov.kordon
    ZAK - 57 has no prospects. As an air defense system, it’s ineffective, even for helicopters, because of its low ammunition and low rate of fire, for ground targets — it doesn’t take tanks because of the low armor penetration of the BPS, and for light-armored targets, on the contrary, the BPS is too powerful for tank dangerous manpower is useless, due to the flat trajectory of the HE shell due to the high initial speed. The large C-60 gun case was designed to achieve maximum range of anti-aircraft targets in offshore conditions for firing cannons with cooled barrels. The use of this cartridge case in a ground vehicle is a dead end direction, although the 57 mm caliber is good.


    Yes, even the rate of fire, 120 / min, it's nothing at all.
  8. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. April 4 2018 09: 45
    0
    I think that the 76,2 mm caliber cannot be excluded from the case, if you make the gun automatic, it will be a generally amazing weapon in its power to support motorized rifle units and to combat high-speed targets both in the air and on the ground.
  9. Din48
    Din48 April 7 2018 22: 00
    0
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: svp67
    For assembly, you can toss other "components and assemblies" from another warehouse, you look and a full-fledged bicycle will work out.

    Well, then there is no problem ... wink The flag is in your hands! fellow
    PS The presence in the ammunition shells with programmable detonation is now no longer a "wish", but a necessity!