Military Review

Hydrogen peroxide cartridge

59
The theme of liquid throwing mixtures refers to those topics that arise and disappear again. A discussion of the possibilities of using any liquid that could explode, instead of gunpowder in cartridges and shells, was often unsuccessful. It quickly came to the conclusion that “nothing is impossible” and this was the end of the discussion.


It would seem that you can add to this topic? It turns out you can, and quite a lot. The list of substances and their mixtures, suitable as a liquid propellant, is quite large and there are some very interesting options. But now we will focus on one long-known substance - hydrogen peroxide.

Hydrogen peroxide cartridge

Hydrogen peroxide is a transparent substance that looks like water. In the photo, the 30% peroxide, better known as perhydrol.

Hydrogen peroxide was widely used and is now used in rocket technology. In the famous Aggregat 4, better known as V2 (V-2), hydrogen peroxide was used to drive turbopumps that pump fuel and oxidizer into the combustion chamber. Hydrogen peroxide is used in the same quality in many modern rockets. The same substance is also used for mortar launch of rockets, including in submarine launch systems. Also, the German jet aircraft Me-163 used concentrated hydrogen peroxide (T-Stoff) as an oxidizer.

Chemists were well known for the ability of hydrogen peroxide, especially in high concentration, to decompose instantly, with an explosion and the release of large amounts of water vapor and oxygen heated to high temperatures (the decomposition reaction proceeds with the release of heat). 80% hydrogen peroxide gave a vapor-gas mixture with a temperature of about 500 degrees. A liter of such hydrogen peroxide during decomposition provides, according to various sources, from 5000 to 7000 liters of gas. For comparison, a kilo of gunpowder gives 970 liters of gases.

Such properties completely allow hydrogen peroxide to act as a liquid propellant. If steam and gas from the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide can rotate the turbines and push ballistic missiles out of the launch shaft, then push a bullet or projectile out of the barrel and even more so. This would give major advantages. For example, the possibility of significant miniaturization of the cartridge. However, as is well known to any person versed in stories firearms weapons, hydrogen peroxide was never used as a propellant or even offered. That, of course, had its reasons.

First, hydrogen peroxide, especially concentrated, instantly decomposes with an explosion when it comes into contact with most metals: iron, copper, lead, zinc, nickel, chromium, manganese. Therefore, any contact with a bullet or a sleeve is impossible. For example, an attempt to pour hydrogen peroxide into the sleeve would have led to an explosion. Safe storage of hydrogen peroxide at the time of birth and the most rapid development of cartridge technology was possible only in glass vessels, which put insurmountable technological barriers.

Secondly, hydrogen peroxide even in the absence of catalysts slowly decomposes, turning into water. The average decomposition rate of a substance is of the order of 1% per month, so that the shelf life of hermetically packed hydrogen peroxide solutions does not exceed two years. For ammunition it was not too convenient; they could not be made and put for decades into the warehouse, like ordinary cartridges.

The use of a new propellant, such as hydrogen peroxide, would require such a major change in the production, storage and use of firearms and ammunition, that they did not even dare to undertake such experiments.

However, why not try? In favor of hydrogen peroxide, you can make some very weighty arguments, however, a few unusual properties, to a greater degree of military-economic. If the arguments are best considered together with the proposed design of the cartridge with a charge of hydrogen peroxide, so as not to be repeated twice.

The first. Hydrogen peroxide (and some mixtures based on it) is a propellant manufactured entirely without the participation of nitric acid, this indispensable reagent for the production of all types of powders and explosives used. In a military economy, mastering the production of at least some missile or explosives without using nitric acid, means the possibility of increasing the production of ammunition. In addition, as the experience of Germany in World War II shows, all nitric acid and all ammonium nitrate (used in Germany as explosives and as a component of gunpowder) cannot be put on ammunition alone. Something else must be left for agriculture, for bread is no less important for war than gunpowder and explosives.



And the production of nitrogen compounds is huge factories that are vulnerable to aviation or rocket strike. In the photo - Togliattiazot, Russia's largest producer of ammonia.

Hydrogen peroxide is produced mainly by electrolysis of concentrated sulfuric acid, and subsequent dissolution in the water of the resulting persulfuric acid. From the resulting mixture of sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide by distillation, 30% hydrogen peroxide (perhydrol) can be obtained, which can be purified from water using diethyl ether. Sulfuric acid, water and ethyl alcohol (which goes to the production of ether) - that's all the components of the production of hydrogen peroxide. It is much easier to organize the production of these components than the production of nitric acid or ammonium nitrate.


Here is an example of the installation for the production of hydrogen peroxide company "Solvay" with capacity up to 15 thousand tons per year. A relatively compact installation that can be hidden in a bunker or some other underground shelter.

Concentrated hydrogen peroxide is quite dangerous, but rocket engineers have long developed an explosion-proof mixture under normal conditions, consisting of a 50% aqueous solution of hydrogen peroxide with the addition of 8% ethanol. It decomposes only with the addition of a catalyst, and gives a vapor-gas of higher temperature - up to 800 degrees, with the corresponding pressure.

The second. Apparently, to equip the cartridge of hydrogen peroxide will require much less than gunpowder. It can be assumed for approximate calculations that this substance produces on average 4 times more gases than gunpowder, that is, to obtain the same volume of gases, the volume of hydrogen peroxide of the entire 25% of the volume of gunpowder is required. This is a very conservative estimate, since I could not find more accurate data, and the data available in the literature are very different. Until more accurate calculations and tests it is better not to get involved.

Take the cartridge 9x19 Luger. The internal volume of the liner occupied by the powder is 0,57 cube. cm (calculated by geometric dimensions).


Geometric dimensions of the cartridge 9x19 Luger.



25% of this volume will make up the 0,14 cube. see If we shortened the liner to such a volume occupied by the propellant, the length of the cartridge case would be reduced from 19,1 to 12,6 mm, and the length of the whole cartridge would be reduced from 29,7 to 22,8 mm.

But here it should be noted that with the diameter of the cartridge in 9 mm, the volume for the propellant charge in the 0,14 cube. cm requires a height of just 2,1 mm. And the question arises: do we really need a sleeve here? The length of the bullet in this cartridge is 15,5 mm. If the bullet is increased in length by 3-4 mm, the cavity for the propellant charge is made from the back side, then it is possible to refuse the sleeve as such. The ballistic characteristics of the bullet, of course, will change, but hardly drastically.

For a powder charge, such a scheme is not suitable: the bullet-sleeve is quite long and has mediocre ballistic characteristics. But if the propellant charge is only one-fifth of the powder, then such a cartridge in the form of a bullet-sleeve is quite possible.

No need to say how important it is to reduce the weight of ammunition and reduce their size. Such a radical reduction in the size of the same pistol cartridge, that it shrinks, in fact, to the size of a slightly increased bullet, creates great prospects for the development of weapons. Reducing the cartridge in size and weight almost doubles means the possibility of increasing the store. For example, PP 2000 instead of stores on 20 and 44 cartridge can get shops on 40 and 80 cartridges. The same can be said not only about the cartridge 9х19, but also about all other cartridges for small arms.


You can also recall about the gun VAH-73 V.A. Gerasimov under the caseless cartridges.

Third. Modern storage tanks for hydrogen peroxide and mixtures based on it are made of polymers: polystyrene, polyethylene, polyvinyl chloride. These materials not only provide safe storage, but also make it possible to make a capsule for ammunition equipment inserted into the bullet cavity. The capsule is tight, supplied with a capsule. Primer in this case, the concept of conditional. Hydrogen peroxide does not need to ignite, like gunpowder, but you need to add a very small amount of catalyst. Essentially, the capsule in this case is a small nest in a plastic capsule with a propellant, where the catalyst is placed. The impact of the striker pierces this nest, its bottom, separating it from the propellant, and pressing the catalyst into the capsule. Further, decomposition of hydrogen peroxide, rapid release of vapor gas and a shot occurs.

The capsule is best made from polystyrene. It is quite durable under normal conditions, but when strongly heated, above 300 degrees, it decomposes into a monomer — styrene, which, in turn, mixed with oxygen present in the vapor-gas, burns well and even explodes. So the capsule will just disappear at the moment of the shot.


Hydrogen peroxide cartridge in the cut. 1 is a bullet. 2 - hydrogen peroxide. 3 - polystyrene capsule. 4 - "primer" with a decomposition catalyst.

The polystyrene capsule is made incomparably easier and simpler than the liner. It is easy to stamp on a thermopress with hundreds and thousands of pieces in one pass. Numerous (more than a hundred!) Operations for the manufacture of a metal sleeve completely disappear, the technological equipment for the production of a shot is greatly simplified. The relative simplicity of production is the possibility of mass production and its expansion, if necessary.

However, it should be noted that the cartridges equipped with hydrogen peroxide, you will need to make immediately before use, with a maximum shelf life in the month 3-4. The more such a cartridge is stored, the more difficult it is to vouch for the fact that it will work. But this circumstance can be circumvented in the following simple way: equip with fresh hydrogen peroxide or a mixture based on it only those batches of cartridges that will immediately go into action. It will be necessary to change the order in which the ammunition is manufactured. If in ordinary cartridge production the cartridge is loaded with gunpowder before the bullet is mounted, then in the case of hydrogen peroxide, the final stage of the manufacture of the ammunition will consist in pouring it into the already assembled ammunition. Hydrogen peroxide can be poured inside a capsule already installed in a bullet using a thin needle (aluminum or stainless steel - materials that are acceptable for working with this substance), followed by sealing the hole.

Therefore, in peacetime, it is possible to procure a sufficient mobilization reserve of “dry” cartridges in order to quickly start the production of fresh hydrogen peroxide and accelerated equipment of these blanks in the event of war.

However, some of these cartridges can be kept in warehouses and fully equipped. After the expiration date, hydrogen peroxide can be replaced in them without disassembling the ammunition: with a thin needle, first pump out the already-worthy throwing mixture, and then pour fresh.

In general, if you decide on major changes associated with the design of the cartridge, the design of weapons, as well as the technology of cartridge production, you can enter a new throwing substance and get a number of military-economic and tactical advantages associated with its use. These advantages, as can be seen, will be very far-reaching and will affect all aspects of preparation for war.
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  1. Kars
    Kars April 4 2018 15: 15
    +12
    I personally like this idea with a cartridgeless cartridge.
    Although for me there is a big prospect for liquid propellants, preferably binary in tank building.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 4 2018 15: 18
      +5
      That would be tankers, if they hit from RPGs and PTRs in projectiles, they would not burn.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Kars
          Kars April 4 2018 18: 45
          +5
          That's why I mentioned the binary.
          However, a container with a liquid propellant can be very complex in shape, and it can be placed in a specially protected place, and it will be necessarily separated from the crew.
      2. svp67
        svp67 April 4 2018 19: 07
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        That would be tankers, if they hit from RPGs and PTRs in projectiles, they would not burn.

        To take more shells. Yes, and HMV, unlike gunpowder, do not dampen
        Quote: Kars
        can be placed in a specially protected place

        Not necessarily, in highly protected, the main thing is outside the capsule with the crew. Since such liquids will be under pressure, in a certain vessel and instant depressurization is the same explosion
        1. Kars
          Kars April 4 2018 19: 42
          +5
          What is isolated from the crew is unique.
          As for pressure, it can be pressurized with an inert gas to be used for injection into the chamber.
          In general, for me, using the press is an indicator of the next generation tank.
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 4 2018 20: 03
            +5
            Quote: Kars
            In general, for me, using the press is an indicator of the next generation tank.

            Back in the mid-80s, they were very energetically conducted in this direction, but then many important issues could not be resolved, the main of which was the preservation of propelling properties during prolonged shooting. The nozzles clogged, the mixture was not sprayed evenly, from heating, the properties of the iron and steel materials changed ... Almost all the problems were solved by the end of the 90s, but so far this is really a topic for the future.
            1. Kars
              Kars April 4 2018 20: 09
              +3
              So we are already in the future))) all the same 20 years have passed. Not .. the cold war would have ended .. it would have been possible to do everything.
              1. svp67
                svp67 April 4 2018 20: 31
                0
                Quote: Kars
                not .. the Cold War would have ended .. everyone would have done it already.

                Everything can be. But now the gunpowder has become different.
      3. Bell pepper
        Bell pepper April 10 2018 23: 22
        0
        This is already implemented in the "Coalition of SV". There, the fuse of the projectile is ignited after electromagnetic waves (like in a microwave) !!!!!!! Which activates the corresponding substance .....
  2. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 April 4 2018 16: 00
    +5
    Very interesting article
    1. astepanov
      astepanov April 4 2018 17: 31
      +2
      Especially because it can be a model of how articles do not need to be written.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 April 4 2018 19: 30
        +2
        Quote: astepanov
        Especially because it can be a model of how articles do not need to be written.

        Poor to write better? wink
        According to the article -
        And the production of nitrogen compounds is a huge plant, vulnerable to air or missile attack. In the photo - "Tolyattiazot", Russia's largest producer of ammonia.
        If Togliattiazot fucking, we are unlikely to leave in time. crying
  3. Bastinda
    Bastinda April 4 2018 16: 07
    +5
    And if you compare the burning rate of gunpowder, and the rate of vaporization of peroxide? Nevertheless, the turbine and cartridge have slightly different working conditions. There is doubt that peroxide can give a normal bullet speed.
  4. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 4 2018 16: 52
    +3
    And what? Normalek ..... I remember. Even in my school years I was "going to" replace gunpowder with hydrogen peroxide. What’s there H22 in the cartridge case! Keep the idea wider! fellow I was wondering how to use Н2О2 in propellant charges of artillery equipment (moreover: both in cartridges and by injection method ...), in rocket engines of NURSs, as a substitute for high explosive in artillery shells and in the same nurses what . Well, that did not come to practical experiments! belay I didn’t know that upon contact with metals Н2О2 would have “pulled”! fool
  5. astepanov
    astepanov April 4 2018 17: 27
    +17
    "A liter of such hydrogen peroxide, when decomposed, produces from 5000 to 7000 liters of steam gas, according to various sources." The calculation gives 4000 liters at 500 degrees.
    "Modern containers for storing hydrogen peroxide and mixtures based on it are made of polymers: polystyrene, polyethylene, polyvinyl chloride. These materials not only provide safe storage, but also make it possible to make a capsule for ammunition equipment inserted into the bullet cavity. The capsule is sealed." Anyone who has dealt with hydrogen peroxide knows: even stabilized with phosphoric acid or hydroquinone, it slowly decomposes. Therefore, the cork is always made with a hole - otherwise the dishes will sooner or later break. The cartridge should be stored for years, or even decades. And how to do it?
    "hydrogen peroxide, especially concentrated, instantly decomposes with an explosion in contact with most metals: iron, copper, lead, zinc, nickel, chromium, manganese. Therefore, any contact with a bullet or sleeve is impossible." The peroxide coexists peacefully. The peroxide refueling hose connections are soldered with lead solder. Remember, what a serious accident was in preparation for the launch of the rocket due to the fact that inadvertently used lead-silver solder? And aluminum is also safe.
    "The average rate of decomposition of a substance is about 1% per month, so that the shelf life of hermetically sealed solutions of hydrogen peroxide does not exceed two years." What are there for two years! Two grams of peroxide (and this is slightly more than 1,3 cubes) in a month will give at such a decay rate 11,2 cubes of oxygen in the sleeve! If you have 1 cube of free space, then the pressure in a month will be 12 atmospheres! The cartridge will burst!
    “A striking blow pierces this nest, its bottom, which separates it from the propellant, and presses the catalyst into the capsule. Next, the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide, rapid release of gas and steam.” A shotgun, not a shot. Catalysis is heterogeneous, with kinetics determined by transport restrictions, and as long as the reaction continues, the bullet at best will fall out of the barrel and fall at the shooter's feet. Especially if the weapon is short-barreled. You can use a soluble catalyst - say, potassium permanganate or its solution. But how to ensure its instant mixing with peroxide?
    “Sulfuric acid, water and ethyl alcohol (which goes into the production of ether) - these are all components of the production of hydrogen peroxide.” Yeah. And sulfuric acid with ether is extracted from the warehouse and therefore nothing is needed for their production. But did the author know that for the production of nitric acid only water and air are formally needed? The author, the economy does not think so!
    In general, it seemed to me that this article is a lightweight fantasy, and no more.
    1. astepanov
      astepanov April 4 2018 18: 32
      +4
      I would also add that if during the combustion of pyroxylin gunpowder a REDUCING gas mixture is formed (water, CO, nitrogen ....), then when the peroxide is decomposed, it is oxidizing, and the barrel will react to the hot steam-oxygen mixture during long-term operation - then only God knows .
    2. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 April 4 2018 19: 05
      +2
      The idea of ​​a cartridgeless cartridge is old and feasible on other propellants, because gunpowder gives a lot of sediment to the cartridgeless version does not fit. As you noted, peroxide has many insurmountable properties of storage and aggressiveness, which is why many good ideas were broken off. Chemists cards in hand to find a suitable propellant and replace gunpowder, the need has long overripe ...
      1. Grid
        Grid April 7 2018 05: 48
        +3
        The idea of ​​a cartridgeless cartridge is old and feasible on other propellants, because gunpowder gives a lot of sediment to the cartridgeless version does not fit.

        Damn it, but the Germans didn’t know ...

        Z.Y. And not only Germans, by the way.
        1. Vladimir 5
          Vladimir 5 April 8 2018 10: 57
          0
          It was not adopted, one of the main obstacles was the propellant charge on nitrocellulose (gunpowder) ...
          1. Grid
            Grid April 8 2018 19: 43
            +1
            one of the main obstacles was the propellant charge on nitrocellulose (gunpowder) ...

            Do not write nonsense.
            They did not accept it because of the death of the USSR and the non-compliance with the NATO standard. Well, plus: the unit itself was a cuckoo clock, and the cartridge was not very cheap.
            1. Vladimir 5
              Vladimir 5 April 8 2018 23: 13
              +1
              Read Wikipedia more, tell not such nonsense. If the weapon is successful, it is taken into service and no circumstances interfere ... The design of the weapon is not ideal, but the main thing is the high temperatures, during automatic fire and became an obstacle to nitrocellulose cartridgeless cartridges. It was overcome, but the costs and other exceeded the permissible. So that gunpowder remains an obstacle ...
              1. Grid
                Grid April 9 2018 03: 10
                0
                Baby, first take the dictionary and find the word nitrocellulose.
                Then read a little about this cartridge.
    3. Varna
      Varna April 4 2018 20: 40
      0
      An aluminum bullet is strong))))
  6. groks
    groks April 4 2018 18: 58
    +2
    And it seemed to me that I know the author under a different name.
  7. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich April 4 2018 19: 40
    +6
    The author wrote everything interestingly, and in sufficient detail, but ... If the powder has a detonation combustion that takes place in an avalanche-like manner, with the ignition of subsequent particles from the previous ones, then with peroxide things are different. Peroxide decomposes into water vapor and oxygen, only in contact with the catalyst. Accordingly, the entire volume of the substance must be passed through the catalyst, and the reaction does not proceed from contact with oxygen and steam! Hence there is no avalanche-like growth of the pressure wave, and most of the peroxide will not have time to react in the required short time. Next, it is necessary to ensure repeatability of ammunition. They must have the same characteristics. In the case of peroxide, everything is generally unpredictable. No wonder they refused VNEU for peroxide for submarines, and torpedoes for peroxide. There were a lot of accidents!
    1. wehr
      April 5 2018 11: 44
      +1
      Not. The decomposition reaction is caused by insignificant amounts of catalyst, which are obviously insufficient for all the substance to pass through them.
      The fact is that heating sharply accelerates the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide. A small amount of catalyst begins the process of decomposition, and then it goes through self-heating (decomposition produces heat).
  8. Dam
    Dam April 4 2018 20: 29
    +3
    Sorry, but this is Jules Verne. Very well-designed fantasy per reader without special education
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara April 4 2018 20: 34
      +3
      Did anyone take into account the rate of steam generation? If it is lower than gunpowder, then what is the conversation about?
  9. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy April 4 2018 20: 51
    +2
    The idea as a whole with peroxide seems to be original, but the very idea of ​​using sleeveless cartridges usually has a bunch of troubles in the operation of such ammunition that level all the advantages of such cartridges.

    In this case, the author himself described them: it is impractical to bother with draining and pouring back the peroxide into the cartridge. Well this is not a rocket, but quite a cartridge for ordinary (non-special) small arms or any other weapon. I am not so familiar with the specifics of the MTR to say where the volume (not weight! Is critical, because by weight I don’t think that there will be a big gain) of the ammunition load.

    About the firing pin with the catalyst - I am silent.

    How an experimental topic is interesting, what is its possible practical application - xs.
    1. wehr
      April 5 2018 00: 25
      0
      You misunderstood. The catalyst is placed in the same place where the cartridge has a cap. The firing pin of this "cap" with a catalyst destroys and pushes hydrogen peroxide, thereby initiating a decomposition reaction.

      And what about the short shelf life: so they prepared cartridges - and immediately to the war.
      1. Butchcassidy
        Butchcassidy April 5 2018 11: 10
        +1
        Quote: wehr
        And what about the short shelf life: so they prepared cartridges - and immediately to the war.

        And if the war comes without warning and will not wait until you prepare your cartridges?)))

        Quote: wehr
        The catalyst is located in the same place as the capsule of the cartridge. This "capsule" striker with a catalyst destroys and pushes hydrogen peroxide into it, thereby initiating the decomposition reaction.

        Yes, I really misunderstood;)
        1. wehr
          April 5 2018 11: 34
          0
          Quote: ButchCassidy

          And if war comes without warning ...


          Hmm, it's even strange to comment. We must defend first laughing
    2. Grid
      Grid April 7 2018 05: 52
      0
      not weight! Because by weight I do not think that there will be a big gain) of the ammunition wearable.

      Will be. The mass of the metal sleeve is almost half the mass of the cartridge.
      But the volume of ammunition of small arms is not so critical and can walk in fairly large limits.
  10. Curious
    Curious April 4 2018 22: 03
    +7
    Interestingly, the author is familiar with such a phenomenon as a shot? Judging by the article - not really.

    As can be seen from the diagram, the task of the propellant charge is not just to create pressure, but to create it in a certain period of time. Without a catalyst, pure hydrogen peroxide is very stable. So, in order for the peroxide to decompose at the right speed, you need to choose the right catalyst. Thousands of pages have been written about the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide under the action of catalysts. Chemists had to face many interesting phenomena. If, for example, iron salts are used as a catalyst, decomposition is relatively slow. But it is worth adding a few salts of copper, as the reaction rate increases by 20 times, although copper salts themselves can cause only a very, very weak decomposition of peroxide. This phenomenon is called activation. And vice versa, sometimes an insignificant addition of a substance negates the action of a strong catalyst. One ten thousandth part of potassium cyanide almost completely destroys the catalytic effect of platinum. The decomposition of peroxide and other substances sharply slows down: carbon disulfide, strychnine, phosphoric acid, sodium phosphate, iodine. So, despite the theoretical possibility, it is extremely difficult to solve the pactic problem, especially for weapons. Therefore, peroxide was not used as a monergol (a single-component charge). But as a component of the dirgol (two-component charge) was used.
    There is a good article at http://btvt.narod.ru/1/zmv_pushki.htm.
  11. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson April 4 2018 23: 32
    +1
    Well done Verkhoturov. Constantly analyzes and offers something.
  12. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 5 2018 00: 37
    +1
    And who remembers the idea of ​​an "electric" cartridge? A nichrome spiral is inserted into the sleeve, an inert gas is pumped, or “vice versa” (oxygen), “sealed” by a bullet. The author of the article provides evidence that the “electric” cartridge will be so fellow more effective than a powder cartridge wink
  13. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff April 5 2018 06: 00
    0
    Does a flying satchel work on such a damn thing?
  14. akunin
    akunin April 5 2018 10: 21
    +2
    but if bleach is added to the perhydrol (33%), it will be a lot of fun (broads + open fire), and if this is not expected, then diarrhea can happen. If seriously, a similar effect is found in Walther’s engines (Н2О2 + catalyst) .
  15. geniy
    geniy April 5 2018 11: 36
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    , preferably binary in tank building.

    That's exactly what in tank building! I have a version that most tanks burn up and explode due to the fact that they have an explosion of gunpowder in the sleeve. That is, there are almost no anti-tank shells filled with explosives (or they are very rare), but mainly anti-tank shells are blanks. and even if the blanks penetrate the armor and penetrate the tank, creating a small number of fragments, the maximum that such blanks can do is to kill or injure one crew member. But often, fragments of armor pierce the thin walls of shell shells and create a fire of gunpowder inside the tank. And from this, most often the tank burns out or explodes. In this case, the death of the tank itself and the entire crew.
    And exactly the same thing happens when cumulative shells hit the tank. Few of the "experts" in military affairs understand that the cumulative jet itself is very cold, and that the jet does not create any pressure or gases, so it would be impossible, in principle, to cumulate or destroy a tank with cumulative ammunition. And there were cases when the Soviet tank easily withstood hit 7 cumulative ammunition and remained in service. But the trouble is that sometimes the cumulative jet gets directly into the combat unit, and then an explosion of gunpowder occurs and the tank dies along with the entire crew.
    But I came up with such a way that we completely abandon the gunpowder in the tanks, and use a LIQUID propellant that is stored SEPARATELY from the shells in a distant place (for example, in the aft end of the tank, in a small, well-armored volume, so that even in case of explosion LMW, a flare would occur OUTDOOR of the tank, which can significantly increase the survivability of the tank and crew survival!
    1. Grid
      Grid April 7 2018 06: 09
      0
      That is, there are almost no anti-tank shells filled with explosives (or they are very rare)

      You are very mistaken.
      They are in quantity. Although the main for tank guns is of course BOPS.
      and basically anti-tank shells are blanks. and even if the blanks penetrate the armor and penetrate the tank, creating a small number of fragments, the maximum that such blanks can do is to kill or injure one crew member.

      Another misconception. After breaking through the armor, the BOPS core scatters into a very significant number of fragments (and if the core is made of pyrophoric material, then also burning ones), to which fragments of the armor itself are added.
      Few of the "experts" in military affairs understand that the cumulative jet itself is very cold, and that the jet does not create any pressure or gases, so it would be impossible, in principle, to cumulate or destroy a tank with cumulative ammunition.

      And this is beyond the bounds of good and evil.
      But I came up with such a way that we must completely abandon the gunpowder in the tanks,

      From here on it is simply congenial!
  16. letter-to-vovan
    letter-to-vovan April 5 2018 15: 58
    +1
    Dmitry Verkhoturov, why not develop ONE thought that it might not be worth holding a loaded cartridge, but injecting liquid I / O into the combustion chamber behind the bullet \ shell ??
    storage problem is solved. Do bullets \ shells as much as you want, liquid in \ in - as needed.
    disposal - for example in boiler rooms.
    Tanks then unambiguously decide on the storage of charges for shots in a separate armored safe tank, away from the crew.
    supply of liquid I / O to the combustion chamber - by pressure of some gas or just a nozzle and a pump.
    1. wehr
      April 5 2018 19: 35
      +2
      This idea has an obvious weak point - the injection system, which will have to operate at very high pressures, work absolutely reliably, inject accurately measured quantities, and so on.
      I find it difficult to answer about the technical feasibility of such a solution, and even if it is possible, will it not be too complicated, expensive and capricious knot, which will be the Achilles heel of the whole machine?
      1. Grid
        Grid April 7 2018 06: 23
        0
        I find it difficult to answer about the technical feasibility of such a solution,

        At the level of prototypes they decided, but they did not achieve significant superiority over the classic firearm, and could not achieve it.
  17. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion April 5 2018 19: 30
    +5
    An article from the category of "Delusional delirium." The author took a note from the section "Myths and Legends of Hydrogen Peroxide" and took them for truth. At the same time, having no personal idea in chemistry or physics, he seriously tells about the significance of Great Peroxide in the future .Special for him, I inform you that at one time people moved from the steam engine to the internal combustion engine, and then to the jet engine and so on. No need to return to the steam era. What kind of propellant liquid explosive are we talking about? Che smoked it? With the same success, ordinary water can be considered as a liquid explosive, since when it is heated, it gives gases more than one and a half times more than a similar amount of gunpowder. I would also take the heat of combustion as a basis. And I would suggest using birch firewood, because their heat of combustion already 3 times higher than that of gunpowder !!! Give chips in cartridges instead of gunpowder !!!
    I’ll tell you a terrible military secret, which is not at all terrible, and not a secret. When assessing the possibility of using any substances as a metal explosive, the velocity of gas propagation is taken as the basis. And, as blasting explosives, the detonation velocity.
    In the FAU-2 catapults, the use of hydrogen peroxide was due to the fact that with the help of catalysts it was possible to achieve the expiration of vapors in a short time, in comparison with a conventional steam engine, in which it was previously necessary to heat the water to a boil. The boiling temperature of water is 100 degrees, and the peroxide hydrogen begins to release oxygen literally at room temperature, though slowly, the catalyst heats it up in seconds to a temperature of about 60 degrees, at which the active evolution of gases begins.This was only due to the use of peroxide instead of water, and not due to its impressive characteristics. immediately, that the author’s project to use peroxide instead of gunpowder is not viable and for one more reason. It freezes at a temperature of 0,5 degrees Celsius. Earlier than water. So it’s possible to fight with such mythical cartridges only in Africa. Which, in principle, is also unlikely, because that the cartridges will explode in a couple of minutes at an ambient temperature above plus 25 It is possible to tell a lot here and step by step to sort all the paragraphs for their unreliability, but there is not so much time.
    1. wehr
      April 5 2018 19: 39
      +1
      All your wonderful opus, so pretentious and heartfelt, bursts at the last point - the freezing temperature. You are mistaken. Pure hydrogen peroxide freezes at -0,4 degrees, 90% at -11 degrees, and 35% at -33 degrees. Much later than water.
      Thus, your knowledge is not tested.
      And in general, in my opinion, something in your head is very mixed up.
  18. garri-lin
    garri-lin April 5 2018 20: 15
    0
    Do you know what the most crazy in the article? Not steam formation and freezing temperature. No shelf life and the possibility of "refueling". The most crazy thing is to use in EVERY cartridge of catalyst capsules. It is enough to make the tip of the striker out of the catalyst and pierce the bottom of the bullet with it, and the effect will be achieved.
    1. wehr
      April 5 2018 21: 32
      0
      Catalysts are, as a rule, salts, for example potassium permanganate, as well as their solutions. If you make a hammer out of such salt, it will not survive even one shot. It must also be remembered that the head remains with such a design of the cartridge in the reaction zone, pressure and high temperature.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin April 6 2018 10: 19
        0
        A lot of things can be a catalyst for peroxide. Pick up a sufficiently durable problem will not be.
  19. Amateur
    Amateur April 6 2018 05: 22
    +5
    I remembered my childhood. Vintik and Shpuntik and their car on sparkling water. With syrup!
  20. efendia
    efendia April 6 2018 11: 46
    0
    It can be further simplified by applying a catalyst to the back of the cartridge and injecting the solution from a replaceable reservoir with the volume necessary for the needs of a particular weapon.
    Ammunition with a catalyst separately.
    1. wehr
      April 6 2018 20: 29
      0
      The idea is good if you make a sufficiently reliable valve that supplies the solution to the chamber. It must withstand high pressure and temperature, and was at the same time absolutely trouble-free.
  21. letter-to-vovan
    letter-to-vovan April 7 2018 18: 24
    0
    Quote: wehr
    The idea is good if you make a sufficiently reliable valve that supplies the solution to the chamber. It must withstand high pressure and temperature, and was at the same time absolutely trouble-free.

    nozzle from a diesel (or other) engine.
    pressure 2500 bar and higher. the number of injections clearly exceeds the capabilities of the gun barrel. combustion conditions are also not sugar.
  22. bone1
    bone1 April 8 2018 11: 05
    0
    What people will not do, just not to work. laughing
  23. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus April 8 2018 11: 35
    +1
    A good idea, but not a great resource of shelf life of the mixture does not give a chance to make strategic reserves. The fact that you can make "dry" stocks is not entirely acceptable in case of immediate use. Although for large calibers, namely for artillery, this is quite a suitable option, given the fact that the dimensions are noticeably reduced.
    1. wehr
      April 8 2018 19: 20
      +1
      Any strategic reserves are very short, and all the big wars are supplied with ammunition of current production.
  24. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion April 8 2018 16: 55
    +3
    Quote: wehr
    All your wonderful opus, so pretentious and heartfelt, bursts at the last point - the freezing temperature. You are mistaken. Pure hydrogen peroxide freezes at -0,4 degrees, 90% at -11 degrees, and 35% at -33 degrees. Much later than water.
    Thus, your knowledge is not tested.
    And in general, in my opinion, something in your head is very mixed up.


    There is no pure peroxide, it is concentrated. And firstly, not minus 0,4, but plus 0,5. Minus 0,4 is the melting point. Secondly, I’ll place the graph now. Thirdly, the amount of liquid and atmospheric pressure affect the freezing temperature. You might be surprised, but even the water does not freeze at 0, but at an interval of plus 11-minus 22 degrees at various pressures. And fourthly, I quote from the article:

    Chemists were well aware of the ability of hydrogen peroxide, especially in high concentrations, to decompose instantly, with the explosion and the release of large amounts of water vapor and oxygen, heated to high temperatures.
    hydrogen peroxide, especially concentrated, instantly decomposes with explosion upon contact with most metals: iron, copper, lead, zinc, nickel, chromium, manganese.

    We are talking about concentrated peroxide, that is, above 80 percent. A 60 percent solution and lower can not be considered at all, since it is already practically inactive. Here, of course, the article is again nonsense, peroxide does not decompose upon contact with metals. It’s just that they are catalysts in which oxygen is actively released, which is an oxidizing agent and can provoke a fire, and under certain conditions with an explosion, but this is critical only in closed rooms and in an open flame, high temperature or electric discharges. If you look at the cartridge, it will burst when oxygen will have nowhere to go. But it will already depend on the metal of the cartridge, the elasticity of oxygen is not a constant thing.
    So do not drive the blizzard.
  25. SASHA OLD
    SASHA OLD April 9 2018 20: 19
    0
    cool article, thanks to the author
  26. gev_ru
    gev_ru April 26 2018 04: 17
    0
    It’s easier to place only the catalyst in the capsule, and inject the propellant mixture into the cavity before firing. The method is already a matter of technology. And the supply of propellant is introduced into the weapon by the type of spray can (like carbon dioxide in air guns).
  27. Vladimir 5
    Vladimir 5 27 July 2018 23: 38
    -1
    Many pros and cons. On peroxide, the main minus is the shelf life, it can be bypassed by ammunition produced locally by the requirements of high-level components in standard container automated production lines, both for small arms and artillery ammunition ... Provide transfer of unused ammunition to the level of stockpiles ( remove hydrogen peroxide) etc ......