Military Review

State Arms Program: Siluanov defeated Shoigu

55
For several years now we have been talking and writing about new Russian weapons systems, about new ships, about modernization tanks, about all kinds of PAC ... Almost daily in various publications you can read about something that other countries do not have. Any speech by the president or defense minister is relevant to this topic.




It is clear that in the conditions in which Russia is today, the need for rearmament is visible to all. Like the need to create a completely new weapons. Weapons capable of appeasing any foreign hawk.

The majority of the population, especially after the famous message of the president, had the impression of the ease of solving these problems. Tomorrow, maximum the day after tomorrow, we will receive the "Armat" in all tank units and formations. Infantry will roll out on BMP-4 or Kurganz-25.

Sailors will receive dozens of the most modern ships of various modifications. From the latest atomic military icebreakers and nuclear submarines to the latest frigates and tank landing ships.

The pilots will transfer to the cockpit of the fifth generation aircraft. The railroad will massively roll out the terrible "Barguzins" for the West. In the mines throughout the country will be strategic hypersonic complexes "Avangard", and on the roads roll mobile RK "Rubezh".

Here it is really appropriate to recall the very expression: not everything is so simple.

I remember the discussion of the State armament program for 2018-2027 years. How many copies were then broken? The military asked for a huge amount - 55 trillion rubles! Almost three times more than allocated for the LG-2020, which operated at that time.

After discussing and agreeing on all the little things, it seems that the amount was reduced to 30 trillion. Ultimately, the amount of 19 trillion rubles is included in the GPV. The government considered that this money should be enough for the necessary and sufficient rearmament of the army and fleet.

This is where the voices of our "mourners" cut through. "Chef, it's all gone!" With this money we can not do anything! Russia is defenseless! They betrayed us! Guard!

But really, some short-sighted readers wondered, where is the Armat serial release? Where is the promised Su-57 mass production? Why are ships and submarines stuck in shipyards? Goz collapses ...

Let's look at the realities of today's Russian army. On what we already have. Let's look at it from the point of view of modern types of weapons and equipment. We are trying to instill the idea of ​​lagging precisely in this parameter.

Moreover, more and more media outlets are beginning, if not to sob, then moan on this topic.

Let's start with a shield that easily turns into a club. With strategic missile forces. Oh, it turns out that there today two thirds of the weapons replaced by modern. 66%! Few? Those who wish to answer this question, I advise you to compare the figures, for example, with the United States.

Those missiles that were in the Strategic Missile Forces prior to rearmament and are waiting for a replacement with modern ones fully met the requirements of the army. Another question: we need to be confident on 100% in the effectiveness of our strike. And it was here that the dog was buried. "Old" weapons did not give such confidence. As, for example, today Americans are not sure about their own missiles.

One may yell from the other side of the ocean about the fact that Russia is continuing the arms race. Well, we continue. So what? And the fact that we are improving our weapons where it is beneficial to us.

We can build rockets. Know how? We are able to. Here we build them. US know how to build aircraft carriers. Undoubtedly. Here they are building them.

Parity, however. The fact that one "Yars" in the normal scenario will incinerate half of any US fleet, but "Nimitz" is unlikely to be able to nail down the "Yars" before the launch, it is understandable. But these are already internal problems of the parties, as it were.

Another major component of the modern army, as shown by modern military conflicts, is the HAC. 73%! Such is the share of modern weapons of the Russian VKS. Three quarters of the total. It seems to be great.

Yes, of course, a significant step. If you do not compare quantitatively with the flying arsenal of NATO.

So if we talk about the quantitative lag. Yes, the quality of our aircraft is at least better than potential aircraft. As a maximum - a head taller. The quantitative question is yes. However, there are nuances. And the main thing - we, unlike NATO, almost do not have to "work" at such a distance, as in Syria.

Accordingly, the support of the rest of the armed forces "if anything happens" on our borders is provided.

We turn to the "failure", in terms of skeptics, parts of our army.

Ground troops. Slightly less than half re-armed. More precisely, 45%. Maybe you need to shout "guard"? Half of our land carriers use outdated equipment and weapons. And if you think?

We have a huge country. Parts and formations of ground forces are located not only in "dangerous" regions, but also deep in the rear. This is a strategic necessity.

But the need to urgently change the "outdated" tanks and infantry fighting vehicles in the "rear" parts. Obsolete does not mean incompetent. Most of our weapons from the "old" stocks at least not inferior to Western models. In military operations in Syria, for example, both sides do an excellent job with Soviet weapons and armored vehicles.

The same is true in Ukraine, by the way.

At about the same level and rearmament of the Navy. At present, the fleet is equipped with new weapons on 47%. Here it is really small. Yes, and these percentages were born exclusively at the expense of small ships, boats and submarines.

And our "Soviet" ships are really too old and inferior to Western ones. The reason is clear.

The destruction of the USSR fleet was a priority for the United States. Dominance in the oceans has provided the American army with opportunities to strike practically anywhere in the world. Our traitors-presidents "request the United States" fulfilled with interest.

In addition to the obvious betrayal of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, we became hostages of the Soviet system of regionalization of production. The destruction of industrial contacts with Ukraine, alas, has hit the shipyards a lot. Ships that were at the final stage of production were left without engines ...

According to open data, today is unfinished in Russian shipyards is huge. 12 submarines, 8 frigates of the project 22350, 3 of the frigate of the project 11356, 20 of corvettes, 2 of the tank landing ship of the project 11711.

These are the numbers of what we should have already received in the fleet. Even advertised patrol icebreakers for the Arctic project 23550 (2 pcs.) While stuck on the Admiralty Shipyard.

Plus upgrades and overhauls.

And here it is worth noting that the fleet-2020 fleet, together with the VKS, was officially proclaimed a state priority. And such a result. What will happen next, when the interests of the now heavily lagged re-equipment of the ground forces are put in priority, it is generally difficult to say.

In the light of the future redistribution of financial resources, which, moreover, are constantly being curtailed. The administration Shoigu definitely loses the battle for the budget to the financiers.

And, by the way, there are not many complaints about the latter. Meaning to give money if the projects can not be implemented? You can understand.

On the whole, Putin Putin’s aide, Andrei Belousov, put an end to the talk about accelerated modernization of the Russian army and navy.

We have passed the peak of the saturation cycle of the armed forces with new types of weapons and military equipment.


Translate?

Today, Russia already has the necessary and sufficient minimum of modern weapons and equipment. Further movement frankly overtax the budget.

There is no money, but ... And there will not be.

Because there will be nothing from the series, which so happily waved by many.

1. There will be no "Almaty". Expensive.

2. There will be no "Kurganza" and BMPT. Expensive.

Moreover, this is indirectly confirmed by the information that the BMP-1 is quite a combat vehicle. Now they will throw a new module on it “Berezhok” and ... Forward, God forbid, not on mines.

3. There will be no Su-57. More precisely, the installation series is being built, the tests, everything will last for many years.

4. There will be no PAK YES. It is clear that not just. Apparently, the horse didn’t roll there, and the rainbow projects didn’t go further. Therefore, apparently having understood the situation, Putin gave the command to modernize and build the Tu-160.

5. There will be (thank God) aircraft carriers. Here, too, everything is clear, as with the PAK YES. Full NO. I would like to saw off, but who would give. Putin did not give. Perfectly.

And actually, what are the aircraft carriers here, sorry? We cannot build a frigate ...

6. There will be no destroyers and frigates. In doubt, we hope. But while the ships immobilized by the Ukrainian sanctions were frozen in the docks.

In addition, there are two words about ships. "Nakhimov" and "Lazarev" these words.

7. Will not be excluded now from GPV "Rubezh". Instead of a mobile complex, there will now be a mine Avangard. Both models Bolivar (in the sense of the budget) did not pull.

8. There will be no Barguzin БЖРК. Expensive. And it seems not to be necessary.

All work on the "Frontier" and "Barguzin" frozen until the end of 2027 year. The decision to resume this work will be made after the implementation of the current weapons program. If it is done and so on.

Actually, if you dig, it would be possible to dig as many more “innocently in the world” military developments, which were first shaken before the public, and then quietly removed until better times.

In fact, today we have the following: it suddenly turned out that Russia is not able to spend such funds on defense. It is sad. On the other hand, the military clearly demonstrated a complete disability in disbursing funds. The 55 trillions of rubles requested by Shoigu’s office were simply a fairy tale from the “Get out, shoulder, swing, arm!” Series

Actually, all the work from 2014 of the year to our time has shown that there can be no talk of any 70% of new equipment for ALL types of armed forces. Not those times now.

Not in the money, by the way. Then at least fill up with money, but if there is a shortage of specialists, then there is no way out of it.

Therefore, year after year, Shoigu lost the position to Siluanov. Money was allocated, not settled (to steal so much is simply unrealistic), the amounts were adjusted.

As a result, 55 remains from 17 trillions of rubles. About what our chief optimist from defense Dmitry Rogozin cheerfully and joyfully reported.

On the one hand, it’s great that they threw out frankly insane and unviable projects of the type PAK DA, “Storm” and “Leader”. This is how it is already with the fat our military began to rage.

It is impossible not to kick the "carrier-based" concept. Build as many as three aircraft carriers, one each at the Federation Council and the Pacific Fleet, and one type in reserve, in case one of the first two repairs. Deliberate and stupid, especially in light of the fact that a destroyer or frigate CAN'T BUILD.

And what do we have in the end? We have a program of LG that has been finalized three times. The Siluanov Office finally defeated Shoigu.

It remains only to speculate on what will go "saved" trillions. "Oil instead of guns" would be preferable to "pipelines instead of tanks." We'll see. But in the implementation of the first concept in the light of the declared increases in taxes, excise taxes, pension retirement is hard to believe.
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  1. Tatyana
    Tatyana 30 March 2018 06: 19
    +15
    Siluanov has long been known for its limited strictly clerical-accounting mentality and at the same time Kudrinsky foreign policy training on the suitability of requirements for Russia by the IMF.
    1. Titsen
      Titsen 30 March 2018 06: 37
      +9
      Quote: Tatiana
      Siluanov has long been known for its limited strictly clerical-accounting mentality and at the same time Kudrinsky foreign policy training on the suitability of requirements for Russia by the IMF.


      According to the laws of war - to the wall.

      War sanctions and information in full swing!
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 30 March 2018 07: 00
        +16
        Quote: Titsen
        Siluanov has long been known for its limited strictly clerical-accounting mentality and at the same time Kudrinsky foreign policy training on the suitability of requirements for Russia by the IMF.
        According to the laws of war - to the wall

        The one who holds him at this post is also against the wall?
        1. Alf
          Alf 30 March 2018 21: 17
          +1
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          The one who holds him at this post is also against the wall?

          It is impossible, it was chosen by 77% of the population.
      2. Lyapis
        Lyapis 30 March 2018 07: 07
        +15
        55 trillion rubles in 10 years ... For reference, in 2018 it is planned to receive revenues of up to 15 trillion 258 billion rubles in the budget, with expenses of 16 trillion 529 billion rubles. That is, according to such plans, we would have to spend a third of the revenue side of the already deficit budget for the needs of the Moscow Region. belay Such requests from the military were originally fiction, not even scientific.
        And it would be necessary to put Siluanov to the wall if he went on about the military.
        1. chingachguc
          chingachguc 31 March 2018 13: 38
          0
          not just for needs, but only for one rearmament))) that is, this does not include the content of the army.
    2. Borik
      Borik 30 March 2018 08: 15
      +2
      Chef, everything is gone! PAK YES, "Storm" and "Leader" will not be, the aircraft carriers also ordered to live long. There will be no "Almaty." There will be no "Kurganets" and BMPT. Expensive. Than we will beat the adversary.
      1. Yuriy Malyshko
        Yuriy Malyshko 30 March 2018 13: 50
        +3
        The presidential election took place, so I don’t even know what we’ll beat ...
    3. RASKAT
      RASKAT 30 March 2018 09: 00
      +2
      He has Siluanov's job to clamp such loot. And that would be all the stub funds spent over the year.
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 30 March 2018 09: 12
        +6
        Quote: RASKAT
        He has Siluanov's job to clamp such loot. And that would be all the stub funds spent over the year.

        The money must be clamped rationally, but this does not apply to the stupid “accountant” Siluanov with his monetarist ideology.
        If you want to say that “mismanagement” and “embezzlement” in the Armed Forces and the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation is an extreme, then Siluanov’s extreme is in the opposite direction - with a turn of 180 degrees, i.e. quite back!
        If it hadn’t been for Shoigu, then with Siluanov Russia would simply have long been lying under the boot of the Pentagon NATO!
    4. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 30 March 2018 10: 58
      +1
      Quote: Tatiana
      Siluanov has long been known for its limited strictly clerical-accounting mentality and at the same time Kudrinsky foreign policy training on the suitability of requirements for Russia by the IMF.

      Judging by the commentary, you and Siluanov worked together for a long time. Tell us more.
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 30 March 2018 11: 46
        +4
        Army soldier2
        Tell us more.

        And there is nothing to tell in detail here. It is enough to recall him with Ulyukaev and Matvienko at least initiative proposals to increase the retirement age for Russians - men at 5 years, women at 8 years!
        In general, we must first turn to our Russian legislation with its law "On the Central Bank of the Russian Federation." And remember that Siluanov is not just a Russian statesman and economist. Siluanov, from December 16 to 2011, Minister of Finance of the Russian Federation. He is also a member of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.
        So, I explain in detail.
        The highest authority in the country, according to Russian law, is in fact with the leaders of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation. You can call it "dual power." Namely.

        After ratification of the Bialowieza Accords, Russia turned into a colony of a unipolar world led by Washington. One of the most important instruments for managing Russia as a colony was the new credit and financial system (CFS) of Russia.
        On 20 of December 1991, the State Bank of the USSR was abolished. All assets, liabilities and property of the USSR State Bank on the territory of the RSFSR were transferred to the Central Bank of the Russian Federation. A few months later, the Central Bank of the RSFSR (Bank of Russia) was renamed the Central Bank of the Russian Federation (Bank of Russia).
        The very first version of the law "On the Central Bank of the RSFSR (Bank of Russia)" was adopted on December 2 of 1990 of the year, after Yeltsin B.N. by a huge margin, he won the election and became the first president of Russia, and after six months of his presidency he signed Federal Law No. 1990-02.12.1990 of 394. The law was modified and supplemented, but in general its essence was preserved.
        The betrayal of the national sovereignty of the Russian Federation in the field of finance was laid down and reinforced in its very Constitution of the Russian Federation of December 12 1993, which was compiled under the EBN under the patronage of Washington.
        Officially, the authors of this colonial Constitution of the Russian Federation from the 1993 of the year were: Sergei Shakhrai, Anatoly Sobchak, Sergey Sergeyevich Alekseev and the Constitutional Meeting of the Russian Federation.
        The Constitution of the Russian Federation from 1993 of the year only consolidated the colonial position of the Russian Federation in this matter.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 30 March 2018 11: 54
          +5
          A change in Russian law is long overdue.
          When we say that the Constitution of the Russian Federation of 1993 of the year only consolidated the colonial position of the Russian Federation in this matter, we turn our attention to the Federal Law "On the Central Bank of the Russian Federation". Namely.

          When, for example, they are now talking about the allegedly criminal activities of the Central Bank of Russia with regard to the same financing of the military-industrial complex and with respect to compliance with its national sovereignty, then all this follows from Russian legislation. For example.
          First of all, from the Constitution of the Russian Federation, Article 15, paragraph 4. Etc.
          Constitution of the Russian Federation Article 15:
          4. The generally recognized principles and norms of international law and international treaties of the Russian Federation are an integral part of its legal system. If an international treaty of the Russian Federation establishes rules other than those provided by law, then the rules of the international treaty shall apply.
          Those. if the Central Bank in Russia is offended by a bad Government, it goes somewhere “beyond the hill” and begins to complain to the international court there. And the international court of law takes precedence over our Russian one.
          Federal Law on the Central Bank of the Russian Federation 7:
          The Bank of Russia, on matters within its competence by this Federal Law and other federal laws, issues normative acts binding on federal bodies of state power, bodies of state power of subjects of the Russian Federation and local authorities, all legal entities and individuals in the form of instructions, provisions and instructions .
          The rules for preparing regulations of the Bank of Russia are established by the Bank of Russia independently.
          If the Central Bank decides to collect all metal money from all over the country, it can issue such a decree and everyone will be required to comply with it.
          Federal Law on the Central Bank of the Russian Federation 21:
          The Bank of Russia and the Government of the Russian Federation inform each other about proposed actions of national importance, coordinate their policies, and hold regular mutual consultations.
          Reminds an agreement between two countries.
          The Bank of Russia advises the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation on a schedule for the issue of government securities of the Russian Federation and repayment of the state debt of the Russian Federation, taking into account their impact on the state of the banking system of the Russian Federation and the priorities of a unified monetary policy.
          As we see, the Central Bank does not belong to the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation, and he only advises him.
          Federal Law on the Central Bank of the Russian Federation 22:
          The Bank of Russia is not entitled to provide loans to the Government of the Russian Federation to finance the deficit of the federal budget, the Bank of Russia is not entitled to provide loans to finance the deficits of budgets of state extra-budgetary funds, budgets of constituent entities of the Russian Federation and local budgets.
          If the state does not have enough money, it cannot take it from the Central Bank. The state may go bankrupt when the basements of the Central Bank are clogged with gold and currency.
          But the law does not say that the Central Bank cannot lend to other states.
          Federal Law on the Central Bank of the Russian Federation 23:
          Federal budget funds and funds of state extra-budgetary funds are stored in the Bank of Russia, unless otherwise provided by federal laws.
          The Central Bank is independent, not liable for obligations, but all state money goes to it.
          The powers of the Bank of Russia to service the state debt of the Russian Federation are determined by federal laws. The Bank of Russia and the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation, if necessary, conclude agreements on conducting the above operations on behalf of the Government of the Russian Federation.
          If the Government of the Russian Federation wants to do something in the financial sector, but it itself cannot. Because the money is all in the Central Bank, and he disposes of it. The government asks the Ministry of Finance to conclude an agreement with the Central Bank and only when they agree do they begin to work together. And if you don’t agree?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Army soldier2
          Army soldier2 30 March 2018 14: 01
          +1
          [quote = Tatyana] [quote] Army soldier2
          Tell me more. [/ Quote]
          And there is nothing to tell in detail here. [/ Quote]
          You misunderstood my request. I asked you to talk about working together with Siluanov, since you are so familiar with him
          [/ quote] The highest power in the country, according to Russian law, is in fact with the leaders of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation. [/ quote]
          Constitution of the Russian Federation, article 3, paragraph 1: The bearer of sovereignty and the only source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people
          [/ quote] The betrayal of the national sovereignty of the Russian Federation in the field of finance is laid down and reinforced in its very Constitution of the Russian Federation of December 12 1993, which was compiled under the EBN under the patronage of Washington. [/ Quote]
          [/ quote] When we say that the Constitution of the Russian Federation from 1993 of the year only consolidated the colonial position of the Russian Federation in this matter, ... [/ quote]
          Tell me in which article it is written.
          1. myobius59
            myobius59 30 March 2018 16: 14
            +4
            Do you know how to read? ALL ABOVE YOU ABOVE. If you do not believe, or doubt something, re-read the Constitution and the Law, just turn your brains on.
    5. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 30 March 2018 11: 08
      +4
      Siluanov has long been necessary for me ... to suspend! Of course, such moments as “Storm” and “Leader” are not available for us at present, but the submarine fleet and surface ships of the frigate-corvette-minesweeper class are categorically needed, otherwise there is nothing to fend off threats from the sea. On land we need new artillery systems, new , with a T-90M cover, plus and upgrades to this level. We send to the Papuans, and let them fight on 55s ??? To gather all our liberals into special teams, arm them with three rulers from warehouses and to Syria, to the hottest places. Siluanov with Kudrin ahead !!! Something like this. And Chubais on the cart with Maxim!
      1. chingachguc
        chingachguc 31 March 2018 13: 36
        +1
        Chubais on a nano-cart, with a nano-maxim))) but seriously, the upgrades are going on ... like a cheap analogy to the Armats ...
    6. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z April 1 2018 22: 05
      0
      Siluanov’s department finally defeated Shoigu’s department.

      Comrades officers, please remind me whether the swaggered Mr. Siluanov is on the sanction lists of the West, at least one? I mean, where does the economy class in Russia come from for the people, including the prospect of rising retirement age?
      (Himself with raising the retirement age would be reduced from a familiar place and what will be interesting to do later?)
  2. landromat
    landromat 30 March 2018 06: 29
    +4
    Colony in one word.
  3. Serg65
    Serg65 30 March 2018 07: 11
    +9
    It was then that the voices of our "weepers" erupted

    An interesting article was written by Messrs. Skomorokhov and Staver, interesting not in content but in construction. The beginning of the article is for health, and since the middle has already gone for repose! Especially interesting about the fleet ...
    According to open data, today is unfinished in Russian shipyards is huge. 12 submarines, 8 frigates of the project 22350, 3 of the frigate of the project 11356, 20 of corvettes, 2 of the tank landing ship of the project 11711.

    Why?
    we became hostages of the Soviet system of regionalization of production. Destruction of production contacts with Ukraine

    But this is all garbage, because ..
    There is no money, but ... And there will not be.

    what So unfinished due to money or lack of factories for the production of components? I did not understand from the article? Although gentlemen, the authors are prone to a cash deficit.
    We have the finally adjusted three-time GPV program. Siluanov’s department finally defeated Shoigu’s department.

    An interesting conclusion, isn't it? A person who is far from the fleet and shipbuilding will immediately call Siluanov nothing more than a bastard and will be right, because the authors of Siluanov presented this to the reader! But dear reader, we were not told about what is being done to rectify the situation with power plants and weapons for unfinished ships! Did the underestimated money go to Shoigu to build new defense industry plants, to design and manufacture domestic power plants, to increase shipbuilding capacities? Probably not, at least the authors confidently state the matter with confidence
    It remains only to speculate on what the "saved" trillions will go for. "Oil instead of guns" would be preferable to "pipelines instead of tanks."

    The whole message of the article boils down to one: “We will collapse, Putin down”
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 March 2018 09: 25
      +6
      Quote: Serg65
      12 submarines, 8 frigates of the 22350 project, 3 frigates of the 11356 project, 20 corvettes, 2 tank landing ships of the 11711 project.

      Alas, the authors could not calculate the actual number of ships on the stocks. For some reason, they decided that we had ALL ships laid on the 2011-2020 GPV
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 30 March 2018 10: 02
        +3
        hi Greetings Andrew!
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        authors could not calculate the real amount

        bully Article from the series "Uh, let's go I'll tell the couple"
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 March 2018 10: 43
          +6
          Quote: Serg65
          Article from the series "Uh, let's go I'll tell the couple"

          An article from the "about nothing" cycle. The authors did not even bother to compare the actual funding of the current GPV to what is laid down in 2018-2027. Or is it still in 2018-2025?
          That is, they decided for some reason that the reduction of GPV to 17 trillion kills our undertakings in the bud, grabbed our heads, and rushed to justify the government that they say that we have enough wassat
          1. Yuriy Malyshko
            Yuriy Malyshko 30 March 2018 14: 13
            +1
            The "expert" from Chelyabinsk, acting in his favorite manner of "womanish argumentation", again ascribes to the citizens what they were not going to say:
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            That is, they decided for some reason that the reduction of GPV to 17 trillion kills our undertakings in the bud, grabbed our heads, and rushed to justify the government that they say that we have enough

            Burn, Andryusha, in the same vein, we are already used to it.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 30 March 2018 14: 29
              +1
              Quote: Yuri Malyshko
              "Expert" from Chelyabinsk

              Baby, why are you so evil?
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 March 2018 14: 29
              +3
              Yuri, I understand that after the last discussion your seat hurts, but why, then, with all honest people, demonstrate this? :)
              Quote: Yuri Malyshko
              again ascribes to citizens what they were not going to say:

              Wow :)) But this:
              1. There will be no "Almaty". Expensive.
              2. There will be no "Kurganza" and BMPT. Expensive.
              3. There will be no Su-57. More precisely, the installation series is being built, the tests, everything will last for many years.
              4. There won't be PACK YES.
              6. There will be no destroyers and frigates.

              What's this? I’ll tell you - this is the information of the OBS (one woman said) because what was and what will happen in the GPV 2018-27 so far is not known to mere mortals - they did not publish it.
              In general, I understand your pain, but do not substitute so childishly. You won’t get satisfaction from this, but it will hurt significantly more :)
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 30 March 2018 14: 25
      +2
      Quote: Serg65
      unfinished due to money or lack of factories for the production of components? I did not understand from the article? Although gentlemen, the authors are prone to a cash deficit.

      There are programs that are in a high degree of readiness for mass production, the same Armata, Kurganets Boomerang, SU-57 are at the test stage, an example is Sarmat, there is at the R&D stage as PAK DA. There is at the stage of preliminary design as an aircraft carrier that is not at all in GOZ -2020. The authors mixed everything together and it turns out that there is nothing at the output. And money is not the main thing here. Temporary abandonment of the Frontier is more of a political nature before the upcoming talks with the Americans, if not, it is in a high degree of readiness, Barguzin is experiencing technological problems, there is no locomotive that the Russian Railways undertook to develop under Yakunin. And then the main stake is on high-precision technological weapons future wars and means of counteracting him, not a word about it, although 70 percent
      funds in the state defense order by identifier for 2017 are precisely these developments and promising R&D.
  4. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 30 March 2018 07: 58
    +7
    And where does Siluanov? The author himself wrote the reason, "there is no money" and the people "stay there" are already bored ....
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 30 March 2018 08: 39
      +6
      Monster_Fat (Yes What Difference) Today, 07: 58
      And where does Siluanov? The author himself wrote the reason, "there is no money" and the people "stay there" are already bored ....

      Yes, despite the fact that Siluanov is not just a Russian statesman and economist. Siluanov, from December 16 to 2011, Minister of Finance of the Russian Federation. He is also a member of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.
      And indeed, such a discussion, indicated by the author of the article, is a discussion not just of 4 years ago, but much earlier - before the annexation of Crimea to Russia.
      Siluanov has long been declaring that Russia does not need powerful RF armed forces, because NATO does not threaten Russia at all, etc., etc.
      In general, Siluanov is a student of Kudrin and a member of his market team. And Kudrin himself is an apologist for IMF decisions in Russia.
      At the same time, Matvienko, and Kudrin, and Siluanov, and Ulyukaev - they are all from the same monetarist-market ideologically pro-Western "boat." No faith to them!
      1. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 30 March 2018 11: 05
        +1
        Quote: Tatiana
        Siluanov has long been declaring that Russia does not need powerful RF armed forces, because NATO does not threaten Russia at all, etc., etc.

        Drop the link to tsytatau, or admit that you are a hollow man and a liberal from the fifth column.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 30 March 2018 10: 00
      +1
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      The author himself wrote the reason

      what Monster, why the flag changed?
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 30 March 2018 10: 43
        0
        Oh, .... it changes depending on the server on which I am “sitting” (speed is needed! Speed!). Now I switched to the "correct". Is it normal ?. wink
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 30 March 2018 10: 55
          +2
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          So ok?

          recourse Uhhhh, it’s quite normal and familiar, but I began to worry ... didn’t happen, well, there the "newbie" or another dirty trick worked ...
  5. Gardamir
    Gardamir 30 March 2018 08: 16
    +3
    Really
    Siluanov defeated Shoigu
    ? Indeed, recently there were screams on the Internet, we defeated you. So they won seventy with something percent.
  6. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 30 March 2018 08: 16
    0
    I sometimes start to think that logic is something from a fairy tale ... the peak of saturation if passed does not mean that this is stop)))
  7. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 30 March 2018 08: 20
    +3
    what does concrete ministers have to do with it? each has its own work. if it’s a rough task to beg one money to give the other as little as possible. then the usual system — even at my own firm, financiers knock out money under pain of dismissal, and it doesn’t work often) if they gave a little, then they asked poorly. dot.
    1. venik
      venik 30 March 2018 08: 52
      0
      Quote: cariperpaint
      if given little means asked poorly. dot.

      =========
      The old one still works here (since the time of Tsar-Pea truth) you want to get money from the state - ask for TWO times as much - anyway - they will cut the application in half !!!
  8. venik
    venik 30 March 2018 08: 21
    +1
    Yeah!!! The article is still ....! And I want to imitate the well-known comedy hero yell: "Chef! Everything is gone !!! Everything! Gypsum is removed .... The client leaves !!!"
    Well, to be honest - the only reasonable conclusion from the article is “yes - you have to” stretch the legs on the clothes “!”.
    But here's where the "deep-witted" applications came from, like:
    (Quote):
    "... 1. There will be no" Almaty. "Expensive.
    2. There will be no "Kurganza" and BMPT. Expensive.
    3. There will be no Su-57. More precisely, an installation series is being built, tests are being carried out, everything will stretch for many years .......
    4. There will be NO PACK YES. .....
    5. There will be .... (etc. etc .......) "
    Oh, and this ungrateful thing is to make forecasts (especially hasty) and also in such an area as the defense industry ...... How then to look "into the eyes" of readers when it turns out that with their forecasts - "I got a finger in .. .. heaven! "??? Or the calculation is that it will be "forgotten" ???
    1. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 30 March 2018 11: 09
      0
      Quote: venik
      Yeah!!! The article is still ....!
      Oh, and this ungrateful thing is to make forecasts (especially hasty) and also in such an area as the defense industry ...... How then to look "into the eyes" of readers when it turns out that with their forecasts - "I got a finger in .. .. heaven! "??? Or the calculation is that it will be "forgotten" ???

      For the first time I agree with venik! Wow!
      And they won’t look into the eyes of readers. Round the clock busy writing such statues.
    2. chingachguc
      chingachguc 31 March 2018 13: 31
      0
      will be, but only on a limited scale ... At the level of 1/10. And the rest - modernization and modernization again.
  9. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 30 March 2018 09: 43
    +2
    Quote: landromat
    Colony in one word.

    Antosha also noted here:
  10. Cympak
    Cympak 30 March 2018 09: 51
    +3
    You mean that it’s expensive, you will understand when you retire .... Well, then, probably, you will understand why you need Leaders, aircraft carriers and other Barguzins, when there is enough money either for food, or for a communal apartment, or on drugs ....
  11. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 30 March 2018 11: 27
    0
    Moreover, this is indirectly confirmed by the information that the BMP-1 is quite a combat vehicle. Now they will throw a new module on it “Berezhok” and ... Forward, God forbid, not on mines.

    Who is going to capitalize BMP-1? belay
    MO signed a contract for the modernization of 540 BMP-2 and BMD-2:
    According to Rostec State Corporation, on September 29, 2017, General Director of Rostec State Corporation Sergey Chemezov launched a new modernization workshop for lightly armored vehicles at the Shcheglovsky Val enterprise in Tula (part of Rostec). It will be used to modernize BMP-2 and BMD-2 combat vehicles - a corresponding agreement has been signed between Rostec and the Russian Ministry of Defense.
    “The new workshop for the modernization of lightly armored vehicles will not only be another step in introducing modern technologies in the production of weapons. We are also creating 240 new jobs in the workshop. The launch of the workshop will allow for the repair and modernization of lightly armored vehicles: BMD-2 and BMP-2. This step was supported by the Ministry of Defense: today we signed an agreement on the modernization of 540 BMP-2 and BMD-2 combat vehicles, "said Sergei Chemezov.
    © bmpd
  12. Yuriy Malyshko
    Yuriy Malyshko 30 March 2018 13: 57
    +2
    Military orders must be dealt with at the accounting level. Back in the 80s, I had to face wild estimates for the repair of military equipment: it was a memory that the set of “bolt-rover-washer-nut” installed in a product at a military factory was six (!!!) times more expensive, than at any national economic plant. They say that little has changed since then.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 March 2018 14: 24
      +1
      Quote: Yuri Malyshko
      Back in the 80 years, I had to face wild estimated prices for the repair of military equipment: it was remembered that the “bolt-rover-washer-nut” set installed in a product at a military factory was six (!!!) times more expensive, than at any national plant

      Yes, it’s not a question, Yuri, make the requirements for recruitment at the level of “any national economic” plant - and get a “bolt-grover-washer-nut” for the same price :))))) And then you always think of something — special materials, special tolerances atypical sizes, etc. - and then wonder why this product is so expensive? :)))
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 30 March 2018 14: 36
        +2
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        make up what

        recourse You have no conscience Andrey from Chelyabinsk !!!! We broke such a sawing pattern crying . The guy just started to fantasize. like he was at the beginning of 80's .... and you bang him on the head, not by Intel’s, it’s like that request
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 March 2018 14: 43
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          You have no conscience Andrey from Chelyabinsk !!!!

          Nooo, I had no conscience in the topic of a sad look at our missile cruisers, where Malyshko postulated that the Sverdlovs were outdated by the standards of World War II, and that the submarine fleet was capable of solving the tasks of the surface fleet, only better :))) A here i am white and fluffy laughing
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 30 March 2018 14: 56
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Malyshko postulated that the Sverdlovs were outdated by the standards of World War II, and that the submarine fleet was capable of solving the tasks of the surface fleet, only better

            Well, the man who at the beginning of 80's .... probably knows us better together! laughing
            Well for white and fluffy drinks
  13. win9090
    win9090 30 March 2018 15: 40
    +1
    That's right, the army should be commensurate with the economy.
    If the Russian economy is smaller than the California economy, what can I say, well, we will get the USSR 2.0 only now everything will fall apart 10 times faster.
  14. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 30 March 2018 17: 44
    +2
    laughing Manipulators from power "fell in love" with the average man’s brain! Again the song about the patriotic bunch headed by Putin in power, against the liberal infection! Lord, this is already causing homeric laughter.
  15. Wolka
    Wolka 30 March 2018 19: 44
    +1
    Well, yes, vague doubts torment me, but there is still something in this ...
  16. zulusuluz
    zulusuluz 30 March 2018 20: 17
    0
    Can Siluanova send to ... galleys? And spend his salary on state defense orders, the number of liberal reasons (tolerance - let him tolerate)?
  17. Radikal
    Radikal 30 March 2018 20: 24
    0
    Quote: rkkasa 81
    Quote: Titsen
    Siluanov has long been known for its limited strictly clerical-accounting mentality and at the same time Kudrinsky foreign policy training on the suitability of requirements for Russia by the IMF.
    According to the laws of war - to the wall

    The one who holds him at this post is also against the wall?

    wassat good hi
  18. Alberr
    Alberr 31 March 2018 00: 55
    +1
    here the question is not only in Siluanov as a minister or accountant, the question is in the model of the economy. Why are inert materials in a neighboring quarry for laying roads along our fields and weights measured in foreign securities, why our economy cannot finance itself even for domestic consumption from our own materials, and produced by our own labor force. How do countries which, like us, do not have their own printing press for cutting green paper, finance themselves? And that is the main question.
  19. chingachguc
    chingachguc 31 March 2018 13: 27
    +1
    Spending huge amounts of money on the Army means starting up the arms race again, and we all remember very well how this can end. The militarization of the economy in peacetime leads to economic collapse. It is necessary to be more careful and more rational to the available resources, which are not infinite. There is also a social network - schools, hospitals, there are roads, infrastructure, and much more, but the budget is not rubber. The main thing for the army is to maintain its potential at an acceptable level, and not be pumped up with steroids.
  20. iouris
    iouris 31 March 2018 21: 06
    0
    We were told that this government is living its last days.