Media: The Ministry of Emergencies called the main version of the cause of the fire in the mall "Winter Cherry"

On the Telegram channel MASH published material, which states that the Emergency Situations Ministry employees have decided on the main version of the cause of the fire in the Kemerovo shopping and entertainment center "Winter Cherry". If you believe this message, then the main version of the MOE sees arson.

It is stated that the fire laboratory experts found out that the fire began to spread from the children's “dry” pool, which was located in the far part of the gaming sector. The flames that engulfed the foam elements quickly spread to the grid for "rock climbing" and to the elements of the casing of the playing hall. The plating started to fall down under the influence of fire, and at the same time the fire spread to the electrical wiring, which led to a power outage.

From the material:

Above the ceiling in the children's playroom, ropes were strung, which, burning out, began to fall in different directions and set fire to all new sections of the floor and walls. The soft floor, assembled from combustible materials, took up instantly, allowing the flame to scatter even further. Properly working ventilation completed the tragedy, starting to disperse smoke and flames in neighboring rooms.

Deputy Head of Emergency Situations Ministry Vladlen Aksyonov said that the bodies of all those killed in the mall were found. This is the 64 person. Of these, 27 is already identified. Laboratory tests will be used to identify the remaining bodies. It is stated that at the moment there are no additional appeals about missing persons in the “Winter Cherry” mall.

Comments

[alex-s]

Scribe! Darn...

[Dashout]

There are no words !!!

[For example]

Such arsonists must be quartered in the square. HANDS TO OPEN THOSE WHO ATTEMPT IN THE LIFE OF CHILDREN.

[cariperpaint]

there they say about a child of 12 years old. The guy who carried him out in a gas mask, too. God forbid if so

[Papandreou]

I remember we were told that a gas mask does not protect against carbon monoxide. Only such that with a cylinder.

[cariperpaint]

it was just a fake for contests. I would pull too.

[Hunter 2]

Revenge - ANYTHING !!! So that - who set fire, the earth burned, who paid and ordered - in double !!!! Tough, Clearly, to BE AFRAID !!! CREATURES ....
Announce - reward !!! I WILL ADD!

[gm9019]

Quote: Hunter 2

Revenge - ANYTHING !!! So that - who set fire, the earth burned, who paid and ordered - in double !!!! Tough, Clearly, to BE AFRAID !!! CREATURES ....

I'm afraid it was just the most ordinary crazy teenage bully. They wrote about "children of different nationalities", from gypsy appearance to Caucasian, who hung out there constantly, played on attractions for free, hooligans, wrote on the walls, etc. They were brought to the police-police, and there they released them, and so many times. There could well be “revenge” for this. There are no brains, but resentment is playing. So they "avenged" ...

[Comrade Beria]

At the time of my fighting youth, a hopcalite cartridge was attached to gas masks, which was wound around the filter inlet. For 20 minutes, protection from the central heating was provided.

[Mikhail3]

I remember we were told that a gas mask does not protect against carbon monoxide.

Smoke is much worse than carbon monoxide. He eats his eyes, and you do not see where you are going. Smoke irritates the airways and you choke on coughing. Combustible plastic emits such packets of compounds that carbon monoxide will seem to you an old friend, from them people lose consciousness in a matter of seconds. These gas masks saved a lot of people, thanks to luck and the guy who brought them and used them.

[dima-fesko]

In case of fires in modern buildings using polymer and synthetic materials, toxic combustion products can affect a person. Although combustion products often contain 50-100 types of chemical compounds that have a toxic effect, according to most scientists from different countries, the main cause of death in fires is carbon monoxide poisoning.
Carbon monoxide is dangerous because it reacts 200–300 times better with blood hemoglobin than oxygen, as a result of which red blood cells lose their ability to supply oxygen to the body. There is oxygen starvation, tissue hypoxia, the ability to reason is lost, a person becomes indifferent and indifferent, does not seek to avoid danger, numbness, dizziness, depression, impaired coordination of movement, and death when breathing stops.
The increased danger of carbon monoxide is explained not only by its high toxicity, but also by a relatively high concentration in the combustion products. According to Japanese scientists, 10–40 times more carbon monoxide is formed in fires than more toxic hydrogen cyanide. In 50–80% of cases, the death of people in fires was caused by carbon monoxide poisoning to a lack of oxygen.

The most dangerous is carbon monoxide (CO) - a 0,5% concentration of which causes fatal poisoning after 20 minutes, and at a concentration of 1,3%, death occurs after 2-3 breaths.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is less dangerous, since it causes a real danger to life only at concentrations of 8 - 10%. Separate fires (during the burning of polymeric materials) can be accompanied by the release of particularly toxic compounds, such as hydrogen cyanide, phosgene, nitrogen oxides, hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen chloride, etc., to which an insignificant concentration is fatal to humans.

[Mikhail3]

Why the hell did you post this nonsense, excuse my French? Yes, carbon monoxide is dangerous! Yes, they die from him! It’s fortunate that someone can repost the wiki article. And to think for yourself at least a couple of seconds?
Again. In a fire, the most important are the first 3-5 minutes when you need to perform the most important actions - to run away yourself and bring out everyone you can. A gas mask, even non-insulating, is simply invaluable for the reasons I have given above. Instead of starting thinking for at least a couple of seconds, you climbed the "proofs" to look. God forbid, you yourself will get into an emergency, where you have to think for yourself and not execute commands, you won’t get out with such an understanding ...

[dima-fesko]

Dear Michael3 (Mikhail) Are you a professional? Sorry for my French question. I agree with you only partially "He eats his eyes, and you don’t see where you are going. Smoke irritates the respiratory tract, and you suffocate from coughing." But do not mislead people. "An ordinary military gas mask (gas mask for the population in civilian defense) does not filter CO. A special box is needed.
A gas mask in standard equipment does not protect against carbon gas!

The filter that comes with a gas mask is designed to protect against certain types of OM (toxic substances), the list of which does not include carbon monoxide.
Of course, if there is nothing, then a gas mask is better than a gauze bandage or a wet towel. But he will not save you if you need to go a long way from some ninth floor.
http://trushenk.com/protivogaz-protiv-ugarnogo-ga
za.html

By the way, he retired from the Ministry of Emergencies.

[Mikhail3]

Yes, I am a professional. Excuse me? Wearing a gas mask will help to hold out the most important minutes in the world 4. No, he will not save from carbon monoxide. Actually, I didn’t say anything like that. I said different ... only you do not hear. Professionals like you are deadly ...

[dima-fesko]

Dear Michael3 (Michael)! I think it's time to stop this pointless discussion. If you carefully read my "Wikipedia" "- and at a concentration of 1,3%, death occurs after 2-3 breaths.", Then you would understand that in case of a developing fire the gas mask in the standard configuration will not save. And I heard you. If I understand you correctly, then your message is as follows. "When the situation is hopeless all means are good, at least protect the organs of vision and if breathing is lucky."
And to your question, I’ll answer this way: It’s impossible to know everything, we need to improve. So I'm trying to improve.
Good luck with Palm Sunday!

[dima-fesko]

You are the right colleague! Only gas masks with a closed regeneration cycle (KIP-8 for example). Currently air-filled cylinders. (Spiromatic, AUR, and others). There are so-called self-rescuers, but they are single-acting.

[Pirogov]

Quote: For example

Such arsonists must be quartered in the square. HANDS TO OPEN THOSE WHO ATTEMPT IN THE LIFE OF CHILDREN.

I agree to quarter, or burn ... uku to feel .............

[the monastery]

Nothing personal just business
CAPITALISM ALL OVER

[LSA57]

Quote: monastery

CAPITALISM ALL OVER

hotel "Russia" in 1977 also burned under capitalism?

[the monastery]

straight stupor!
what parallels? what then systems and attitude of people
which now? but everything else has become a monstrous difference!
you do not answer me your koment from space

[LSA57]

Quote: monastery

straight stupor!

don't get out of it

what parallels?

and there and there a fire. people died

but everything else has become a monstrous difference!

burns differently?

your koment from space

and yours from the cave. only there still rave communism

[the monastery]

offended the mouse wrote in the hole
why are you so excited ?!
keep yourself in control and DO NOT write to me anymore.
It’s a pity that the essence remained unavailable to you!

[Galleon]

There is practically no doubt - children's entertainment centers are practically ALL. When a similar one opened in our shopping center, I hinted at fire safety certificates for the materials used - I received nothing. Yesterday I decided to write an official request, I began to wool the Decree of the Prospect Island No. 241 - and it says mainly about the finishing materials of escape routes - but about trampolines, plastic labyrinths, dry pools with foam rubber or balls, woven from kapron cocoons - not a word - they are not fall into those categories from which to ask for certificates. Like this.

[Waterfowl]

I have! Upon arrival of the firefighters, the children in the cinema were alive according to confirmed data. Why, for what reason, firefighters (MOE) could not save them? Is the Ministry of Emergency Situations guilty of this, are they going to evaluate the actions of firefighters or only managers, will they "evaluate" employees?

[Anti-Corr.]

Quote: Waterfowl

I have! Upon arrival of the firefighters, the children in the cinema were alive according to confirmed data. Why, for what reason, firefighters (MOE) could not save them? Is the Ministry of Emergency Situations guilty of this, are they going to evaluate the actions of firefighters or only managers, will they "evaluate" employees?

It also amazes me that it was precisely those people who were supposed to save children or perish who did not do either one or the other.

[antivirus]

LITTLE TRAINED - DIDN'T KNOW THE DIAGRAM OF THE CATACOMB Nooks?
they didn’t tell them where someone is in danger.
there was no interaction?

[raw174]

Quote: Anti-Corr.

It also amazes me that it was precisely those people who were supposed to save children or perish who did not do either one or the other.

Do you know what a charter is? Everything is written there, every step and it is written in blood. The Ministry of Emergency Situations did not read the charters and instructions, but I don’t think that there is something similar there that you are talking about ... It is foolish to blame the Emergencies Ministry fighter for not committing suicide. But to enter a burning building, where the temperature reaches a thousand degrees, this is suicide.

[Anti-Corr.]

Quote: raw174

Do you know what a charter is? Everything is written there, every step and it is written in blood

I had occasion to study the charters and they do not always spell out what happens in life, and even more so during DB and emergency situations. For example, in what charter it is written that the squad of fighters can hold positions for 5 hours, when the number of attackers is up to one and a half companies. The thing is that the charters can be carried out formally, neatly, without harm to health. My opinion is that the fire fighters did not have enough strength, money and a special desire to save the maximum number of people. IMHO.
Threat. on the website of public procurement Kemerovo Dep. In 2017, the Ministry of Emergencies purchased funds for 19,5 million rubles. Where were these funds?

[raw174]

Quote: Anti-Corr.

I had occasion to study the charters and they do not always spell out what happens in life, and even more so during databases and emergency situations.

I carefully studied the charter in the army, especially the guard, I think like most here. It is clear that there are different cases, for example, all serve according to one charter, but someone will storm a village and storm, and the other will cost 300 without, much depends on the commander. But putting myself in the place of the fire-fighters, I don’t think that I would dare to enter the building covered by fire with VERY high temperature (saw the frames on which the molten steel supports are visible?) ... Suicide of pure water ...

Quote: Anti-Corr.

on the website of public procurement Kemerovo Dep. In 2017, the Ministry of Emergencies purchased funds for 19,5 million rubles. Where were these funds?

You need to look at what exactly you bought, there are 5 million, or even more - MOT and fuel and lubricants ... And not an impressive amount ... special equipment is very expensive, one fire engine costs up to 20 million ... A simple AC for 6- 8 million can be bought, but with a ladder up to 15 million there will be no ... a shoulder breathing balloon costs about 20 thousand, it’s just a balloon, without a system! I myself wanted to take, for refueling pneumatics ...

[Anti-Corr.]

Quote: raw174

. But putting myself in the place of the fire-fighters, I don’t think that I would dare to enter the building covered by fire with VERY high temperature (saw the frames on which the molten steel supports are visible?) ... Suicide of pure water ...

A colleague, there is a video where the fire escape in the fire was faulty. I mean that the state does not conduct emergency prevention, but is engaged in the elimination of their consequences. Everything is burning, and the shopping center, and forests, and peatlands, the country is on fire. The question is why what should have worked didn’t work, why there were no fire helicopters, and the payroll machines arrived without water?

[raw174]

Quote: Anti-Corr.

there is a video where the fire escape in the fire was faulty.

Yes easily. This is bad, but no one is safe from negligence ...

Quote: Anti-Corr.

I’m saying that the state does not conduct prevention of emergency

Conducts. In the end, not so often there are such fires and alarms, and all systems in most of the facilities are operational.

Quote: Anti-Corr.

and forests and peatlands

It is more difficult with natural ones ... not those areas, other conditions. The forest cannot be put out even in the prosperous USA ...

Quote: Anti-Corr.

why there were no fire helicopters

what for? what work for a helicopter? drop a couple of tons of water on the roof to collapse faster?

Quote: Anti-Corr.

did the calculation machines come without water?

In general, cars always stand refueled ... Negligence and sloppiness of a particular guard and unit cannot be ruled out, but according to the instructions they are always full.

[tomket]

Quote: Waterfowl

I have! Upon arrival of the firefighters, the children in the cinema were alive according to confirmed data. Why, for what reason, firefighters (MOE) could not save them? Is the Ministry of Emergency Situations guilty of this, are they going to evaluate the actions of firefighters or only managers, will they "evaluate" employees?

In my opinion, there are already a lot of indirect facts of inaction of the Ministry of Emergencies in RESCUE (not extinguishing) people. Children, which the animator brought. People in the cinema halls, and after all, the teacher informed about the locked class, and tried to make her way to the fourth floor, the cordon did not let her go. Another teacher who was found poisoned on the SECOND floor. The boy who fell on the visor (where there were firemen with a ladder and tarpaulin). The man who asked the firemen for a mask to go upstairs, and who was refused, referring to the instructions. In my opinion, the episodes already listed are enough for the head of the local Ministry of Emergencies to break down.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: tomket

mass of indirect facts of inaction of the Ministry of Emergency Situations for RESCUE

They are justified by zero visibility due to smoke.

[tomket]

Quote: Mordvin 3

They are justified by zero visibility due to smoke.

But shouldn't they have oxygen masks? Special equipment? Is there any powerful flashlight? And if not, then why? In our country, everything seems to be in order with the Ministry of Emergencies.

[Cro-Magnon]

Not a single flashlight pierces smoke from synthetics. Only a powerful spray jet can handle this.

[Mordvin 3]

There were masks, but there were no lamps. There is a video where they are explained with relatives of the victims on this occasion. they were asked to draw a diagram, and to explain the procedure, did not. In general, the impression is not very much on their actions.

[raw174]

You are wrong in everything! You are far from the real situation! I was on fire as a volunteer, though the fire was forest. Fire - a terrible element, I saw fighters of the Ministry of Emergency Situations who do EVERYTHING possible and even more!

Quote: tomket

Children, which the animator brought.

ALL who work in places of mass arrival of people should undergo training! Organizing an evacuation is their direct responsibility, not a feat! The staff basically escaped, and it was they who had to withdraw!

Quote: tomket

People in the cinema halls, and after all, the teacher informed about the locked class, and tried to make her way to the fourth floor, the cordon did not let her go.

The cordon just prevented another victim. Everyone who enters this building will die - a fact and the battle will not save, it holds up to 400 degrees, about 3-5 crumple.

Quote: tomket

The boy who fell on the visor (where there were firemen with a ladder and tarpaulin).

The boy was thrown out the window (sort of like a father), nobody knew that! If it were the only window, the staircase would be there ...

Quote: tomket

The man who asked the firemen for a mask to go upstairs, and who was refused, referring to the instructions.

The same thing would be another corpse ...

Quote: tomket

In my opinion, the episodes already listed are enough for the head of the local Ministry of Emergencies to break down.

He must leave, because under his supervision (his direct subordinate) supervisory checks took place ...
You certainly know better from the couch. But I will not blame the fighters of the Ministry of Emergencies, because I am sure that it was impossible to save people locked in cinemas by staff.

[tomket]

Quote: raw174

I saw fighters of the Ministry of Emergency Situations who do EVERYTHING possible and even more!

If they did their best, there would be fewer victims.

Quote: raw174

The cordon just prevented another victim. Everyone who enters this building will die - a fact and the battle will not save, it holds up to 400 degrees, about 3-5 crumple.

I'll argue with you here. It is necessary to understand this episode per second. When this woman tried to break through, I do not think that 1,5 hours after the fire arose. And I think that there the temperature was not everywhere for 400 degrees.

Quote: raw174

The boy was thrown out the window (sort of like a father), nobody knew that! If it were the only window, the staircase would be there ...

Well, it’s clear that the perimeter is not controlled by what falls from the roof there, go and take it apart. To all the answers, who knew. This is the difference between the short-witted, who "Who knew," from the professionals who work.

Quote: raw174

The same thing would be another corpse.

Why all of a sudden? Ani amator in a fake gas mask was brought out by 30 people, but then you see, would there be another corpse?

Quote: raw174

But I will not blame the fighters of the Ministry of Emergencies, because I am sure that it was impossible to save people locked in cinemas by staff.

Yes, everything is simple. How many firefighters died or were injured during the fire? I could be wrong, but in my opinion exactly ZERO. That's the whole tale of selflessness during the salvation of people. There is nothing to add here.

[raw174]

Quote: tomket

It is necessary to understand this episode per second. When this woman tried to break through, I do not think that 1,5 hours after the fire arose. And I think that there the temperature was not everywhere for 400 degrees.

The first calculations arrived in 15 minutes. after reporting the fire (for the city, on weekends after lunch it is very good), by this time, according to preliminary estimates, about 1,5 thousand sq. m were already burning. plastic and other finishes burn like gunpowder and with a very high temperature + extreme smoke. It was too late, and they did not begin to send firefighters for slaughter ...

Quote: tomket

Ani amator in a fake gas mask took 30 people out, but then you see, would there be another corpse?

Animators and had to bring people! It is the workers who must be the first to react, because they are in place. This well done man didn’t run away, but did what he should, but it was already too late for the Ministry of Emergencies to arrive ...

Quote: tomket

How many firefighters died or were injured during the fire? I could be wrong, but in my opinion exactly ZERO. That's the whole tale of selflessness during the salvation of people.

Dementia and courage are not a sign of good work.

[the most important]

Quote: alex-s

Scribe!

This is to say the least !!!

[the most important]

Everyone saw the meeting that Putin held in Kemerovo ... Puchkov, as usual mumbled. This time because small businesses have tax breaks and therefore the Ministry of Emergencies does not check them !!! A rare woodpecker! he doesn’t even know what his ministry should do !!! He does not see the difference between taxes and fire fighting !!! And this miracle was entrusted to the lives of people nationwide! But Tuleyev began to say that 200 buzoters who had nothing to do with the dead and had their own political goals gathered on the square !!! the whole country is in shock, in mourning, but this ... insults people who have lost their children! And neither one nor the other found the courage to say that the tragedy occurred because of their stupidity and their inability to organize and control the necessary, statutory procedures! Putin is in shock !!! Yes, the whole country is shocked by this! Drive !! urgently drive them from their posts!

[creep: b]

these tax holidays also include protection from unscheduled tax inspections, firefighters, consumer supervision and sanitary-epidemic for a period of seemingly 3 years. That's what he meant. But in the case of complaints, verification should be carried out. Those who have tried themselves in small business can correct me.

[LSA57]

Quote: creep out: b

these tax holidays also include protection from unscheduled tax inspections, firefighters, consumer supervision and sanitary-epidemic for a period of seemingly 3 years.

and they concern only small business. SEC does not apply to such a business

[svd-xnumx]

and they concern only small business. SEC does not apply to such a business

According to the documents, as he says, he was just a small business. And they scattered the idea of ​​tax holidays, quite often after just 3 years the signboard and woo-a-la new LLC with 3 years of tax holidays are changed.

[the most important]

Quote: creep out: b

These tax holidays also include protection from unscheduled tax inspections, firefighters, consumer supervision and sanitary-epidemic for a period of seemingly 3 years.

Offices in one room - yes, but an object with a massive stay of citizens is checked QUARTERLY for anti-terrorist stability and, accordingly, for fire safety. A CTS (button) is checked DAILY !!! with a record of the time of the check and the person in charge .. I myself checked for 17 years .. If any director began to arise, that I do not have the right to check, then I agreed. but he always said that I was not checking the enterprise, but the BUILDING, respectively, I’m not violating anything and he has the right to stomp with a complaint to the prosecutor’s office .... and nobody dared to stomp there ...

[raw174]

Quote: the most important

but an object with a massive stay of citizens is checked QUARTERLY for anti-terrorist stability and, accordingly, for fire safety. A CTS (button) is checked DAILY !!! with a record of the time of the check and the person in charge .. I myself checked for 17 years ..

I do not know where and what you checked, but you are wrong in everything!
No quarterly checks are carried out! An anti-terrorism check is carried out once every three years. A safety data sheet is being compiled! In addition, scheduled ANNUAL inspections are carried out! Unscheduled inspections only on a complaint.
Alarms are checked according to the contract with the service organization, usually 1 time per month. Training events (evacuations) are held quarterly, but in the mall they are held when there are no people during off hours so as not to create panic.

[prorab_ak]

A CTS (button) is checked DAILY !!!

There poor fellows from extra-departmental from you are not crazy ???
An alarm button has been standing for 8 years (FSUE Okhrana Rosgvaridii, formerly called private security of the Ministry of Internal Affairs) in the boiler room, a technician arrives once a month (from the same private security), checks its operation (makes a call to the duty officer) and that’s all. All this under the contract for the provision of remote security services ..... so moderate the ardor in your inspections, otherwise they will definitely take you somewhere))).

but an object with a massive stay of citizens is checked QUARTERLY for anti-terrorism stability and, accordingly, for fire safety

these inspections are never carried out simultaneously, if we mean planned inspections. Not carried out. If only because these areas are subordinate to different services. And the Ministry of Emergencies does not have the right to demand from the owner (or the Criminal Code) an anti-terrorist passport of the object, as well as the FSBshnik, to demand an act of verification of fire protection systems, this is the law. Although FSBshnik is difficult to refuse
And with such a frequency, NOT ONE planned (and non-floating too) inspection of objects is carried out, whether it is Rospotreb, Rostec, Rosprirod supervision, the Ministry of Emergencies and other overseers. The law does not allow this.

[Anti-Corr.]

Quote: the most important

Everyone saw the meeting that Putin held in Kemerovo ... Puchkov, as usual mumbled.

The thing is that the stock of Soviet strength has been exhausted and man-made disasters will haunt us with increasing frequency. The state is clearly to blame and it doesn’t matter at all, it’s evil intent or negligence. The first duty of the state is to ensure the safety of citizens, and especially children. If you google, then you can understand the whole situation with fires and emergency situations in the country. And the kids are immensely sorry ....

[raw174]

Quote: Anti-Corr.

The thing is that the stock of Soviet strength has been exhausted and man-made disasters will haunt us with increasing frequency.

The stock of Soviet strength of this shopping center was exhausted before its construction, it was built much later! I think more, man-made disasters (and this fire does not apply to them) increase as technology develops, but under King John IV there were no man-made disasters ... And only for you, in secret, one of the largest man-made disasters occurred in the most severe THE USSR. I repeat, in Kemerovo is not a man-made disaster.

Quote: Anti-Corr.

If you google, then you can understand the whole situation with fires and emergency situations in the country.

And if you think about it! Then everything will become completely clear ...

[LSA57]

Quote: the most important

was due to their dullness

stupid to power do not come. here is elementary greed

[Piramidon]

Quote: the most important

He does not see the difference between taxes and fire fighting !!!

But what about “not to nightmare the business”?

[tomket]

Quote: the most important

Putin is in shock !!!

Something I don’t hear about the resignation of Puchkov and Tuleyev. Probably valuable footage.

[Cro-Magnon]

Puchkov made a reservation. He had in mind supervisory holidays for small businesses for a period of three years.

[Vend]

They have no heart. He did not spare the children. I hope to find him.

[210ox]

I’m not going to blame anyone. It may be a prank and just something crazy. But you need to think with your head what materials and toys our children play are made of ..

Quote: Wend

They have no heart. He did not spare the children. I hope to find him.

[Vend]

Quote: 210ox

I’m not going to blame anyone. It may be a prank and just something crazy. But you need to think with your head what materials and toys our children play are made of ..

Quote: Wend

They have no heart. He did not spare the children. I hope to find him.

Yes, there is no one to blame.

[creep: b]

in fact, I'm sure you have a lot of such toys in your house and combustible materials like stretch ceilings for laminate wallpapers

[LSA57]

Quote: creep out: b

and combustible materials like stretch ceilings laminate wallpaper

Yes, take the same curtains and stloes

[raw174]

Quote: 210ox

But you have to think with your head what materials and toys are made with which our children play ..

What are yours playing with? I remember in my childhood I had an aluminum armored personnel carrier, tin cars and a whitewashed ceiling ... My son has everything plastic, and the ceiling is suspended.

[gippernano]

My heart is getting cold

[Dimontius]

then confirms the version of the ship about arson. The first video with her behind bars yesterday, she talked about a gang that was constantly kicked out. Although of course this is not known for certain

[Mordvin 3]

Suspect the same boy 12-year-old. And Sudennok ... God be her judge.

[bazzbazz]

Just inhuman did it! Unless of course this is not a blind eye to the true culprits!
But the question is different, why CHILD !! is the site made of such combustible materials?
Clearly, savings, but there must be standards and penalties for their violations!
It is clear that it comes down to a fine or a bribe. We need more stringent measures!

[raw174]

Quote: bazzbazz

oh question in another why CHILD !! is the site made of such combustible materials?

Go to your child (if there is one) and take his toy, set it on fire (in a bucket on the street and stock up with water). Ask yourself, why did I buy a child a combustible toy ?!

[bazzbazz]

There is one toy, there are a lot of them in the basket (there are some that are on fire), but this is my child, and I am responsible only for him alone! And here are dozens, hundreds of children !!

[raw174]

Quote: bazzbazz

but this is my child, and I am responsible only for him alone! And here are dozens, hundreds of children !!

Almost all modern materials are combustible ... Everywhere paralon and other plastics ...

[vlad66]

There are no words, but it’s better to wait for the official announcement, nothing is yet available on the sites of the Ministry of Emergencies and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

[antivirus]

this is not a scribe-- this is just a mouse, A BIG SCRIPT WILL BE DISCOVERED BEFORE


who benefits from setting fire?

perhaps this is a division of land and the "free liberal market."
may not find which influential one agreed to “push aside” some and bring others

[SOF]

Quote: antivirus

who benefits from setting fire?
perhaps this is a division of land and the "free liberal market."

... or ... profitable ... the loser of the election or not allowed to the election.
Given all the rot that poured from social networks, this version also has a right to exist. Moreover, the threats of "disagreement" with the results were ....
......... scum .........

[ltc35]

This scum itself needs to be set on fire and allowed to survive.

[creep: b]

and in St. Petersburg, a car dealership is on fire now. Sabotage sabotage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tap8SIE54

[Alex-a832]

Quote: creep out: b

and in St. Petersburg, a car dealership is on fire now. Sabotage sabotage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tap8SIE54

What was it? Ironically at human tragedy? Is there a conscience?

[creep: b]

Sorry, maybe the punctuation marks should have been placed correctly. I’m not ironic. And I'm talking about the fact that there is a sabotage war against us. Somehow, at the end of last year, all shopping centers in all cities were unhooked because of calls about planted bombs, but now the brothers seem to have decided that there are simply not enough calls.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: creep out: b

And I'm talking about the fact that there is a sabotage war against us.

Find out more precisely, and the comparison is not correct. If there could be a terrorist act in the shopping center (in theory), then in the car dealership - no way. The maximum is the revenge of the touchy buyer or “hello” from a competitor. Other objects are interesting for sabotage (without details).

[SOF]

Quote: creep out: b

And I'm talking about the fact that there is a sabotage war against us.

... same associates

[SOF]

Quote: creep out: b

And I'm talking about the fact that there is a sabotage war against us

... the same associations. And this, obviously not a retard from the caliphate, is something much more intelligent and savvy on political technologies ...
But this does not justify home-grown damps from the "business" and the bureaucracy.

[210ox]

I hope the geldings burn there ... I don’t feel sorry for the expensive iron. The main thing is that people would be whole.

Quote: creep out: b

and in St. Petersburg, a car dealership is on fire now. Sabotage sabotage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tap8SIE54

[senima56]

Well, finally, they did not blame it on “a technical malfunction (short circuit)”! Now the main thing is to find this scum that burned!

[x.andvlad]

That "scum" that burned, maybe itself is no longer alive. It’s just that you need to look after the children, and not lock them, and then calmly go about your needs. This is what causes indignation above all.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: x.andvlad

That "scum" that burned, maybe itself is no longer alive. It’s just that you need to look after the children, and not lock them, and then calmly go about your needs. This is what causes indignation above all.

The version slipped that "that scum" is also a child who, as an adult, was fooling around with fire.

[raw174]

Quote: x.andvlad

It’s just that you need to watch the children, and not lock them

I agree, only in the cinema always the doors are locked ...

[Mordvin 3]

What for? Do not want to explain? And if I urgently need to go out?

[raw174]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Do you want to explain?

I won’t explain, because I don’t work in the cinema, I just go to see it, but

Quote: Mordvin 3

What for?

Then, in order not to keep the controller in each room. The cinema has 3-7 halls, and 1-3 controllers serve them. To prevent free riders from slipping through, the doors are locked. Savings from the owners of cinemas.

Quote: Mordvin 3

And if I urgently need to go out?

And why, you paid the money, sit and watch! (Joke)

[XXXIII]

Quote: senima56

Well, finally, they did not blame it on “a technical malfunction (short circuit)”! Now the main thing is to find this scum that burned!

There are enough cameras there, all the more it is a children's corner, they put it so that if the child suffers, it could be presented in court as evidence. So they all know that the tension in society is just too strong, and people are offered to read fortunes on coffee grounds. Society cannot but discuss such a tragedy, people are not indifferent in Russia ..... So in this case too, there is no limit to the cynicism of the authorities, even in such a situation ....

[Bumblebee_3]

senima56 (Nikolai) Today, 15:59
Nicholas, there may well be arson, there could be a prank of children with fire. But believe me, I have seen many times how wires (cables) burn from overload. Especially Iranian and Chinese, and what kind of smoke and gases from combustion, no worse than from sulfur. We will wait for an answer from the relevant authorities
Sincerely.

[NEXUS]

It seems to me, or is the arson version an attempt to remove responsibility from most officials? Then the question begs, who set it on fire? Where were the service staff at this time to prevent this? And there are a lot of questions regarding fire safety. They should sort it out and identify all those responsible for it ... but so that this is not put on the brakes. Already now, many bureaucrats squirmed in their chairs, thinking little about the dead, and worried only about their chair and future. At the same time, how much slop with fakes, lies and overt gloating from some countries was poured over these three days about this tragedy, turning all this into a booth and dancing on the bones of the dead.

[Whisper]

There was a video on the internet, where some guy was throwing something in the children's room. It would not be a banal dismantling of competitors.
It is clear that children's corners will now be made of non-combustible materials, or rather they will not be at all. This business has already closed. I think no one will give the children there now.

[BLOND]

Quote: Sheptun

There was a video on the internet, where some guy was throwing something in the children's room. It would not be a banal dismantling of competitors.
It is clear that children's corners will now be made of non-combustible materials, or rather they will not be at all. This business has already closed. I think no one will give the children there now.

It has been proven that this is not true - "stitched" video

[Flies]

Yes, in this video, the guy said hello to his friend, and after a while broke out near this place. Other cameras can be seen in more detail. This has already sucked and the "arsonist" explained everything.
And here, that they want to remove responsibility from bureaucrats is really felt.
In addition, the Ministry of Emergencies was supposed to control the "fire fighting". And now: "innocent I ..."

[cariperpaint]

that guy shook hands with the girl that the video is clearly visible and he went to training. then he endured the children.

[Ross_ulair]

This is until the OBS agency reports ...
So no need to rush

[NEXUS]

Quote: Ascetic

The arson version does not remove the responsibility of all involved,

The arson version “softens” the version that all those involved, including the top, must be planted for a very long time. Now, human indignation is going through the roof, and right away nothing will be “hushed up and blotted out", and therefore, this presented version seems to me to be the first test ball, namely to mitigate this whole wave of indignation.
Imagine for a second what the residents of Kemerovo would do with bureaucrats, who on the first day (I must say fairly) would be declared one of those responsible for this tragedy ...
This does not even amaze me ... I'm shocked by the amount of gloating, fakes, outright lies in the networks about this all.

[Ross_ulair]

But what kind of people are they - everywhere there is a hidden meaning to seek and blame the power ?!
There was a tragedy, children were killed. You just need to be silent, honor memory, respect relatives. And do not yell, as announced - "Atu them!"

[raw174]

Quote: NEXUS

Is this an attempt to remove responsibility from most officials?

And no one blamed the officials for the arson ... Regardless of the reason for the arson of the wine, the inspectors of the Ministry of Emergencies and others are not removed, because regardless of the cause of the fire, the warning and fire extinguishing system did not work ...

[bubalik]

Telegram channel MASH published material

,,, again spread rumors, so the Ministry of Emergencies took and reported MASH about the reasons,

[Herculesic]

Now, to understand who was behind him, this is criminal activity, or the "hidden monsters" "stepped up in order to spread fear and instability in the country! To the dead, rest in peace!!

[friend of animals]

Yeah, sheer wrecking and sabotage, but Tuleyev can’t be fooled.

[dvina71]

Quote: friend of animals

Yeah, sheer wrecking and sabotage, but Tuleyev can’t be fooled.

So you need to determine what Tuleyev extreme .. personally set fire to, built a children's room out of fuel, did not train the shopping center staff in emergency situations .. Last year, the shopping center near the MKAD on Dmitrovka burned .. it burned well ... only nobody burned out .. and everyone noted the excellent work of the staff, unacceptable panic ..
Well, why am I ... you’re already slaughtered by the accusers of the regime ..

[friend of animals]

What is pop, such is parish. Or is the city administration not subordinate to him? The shopping center near the Moscow Ring Road is an excellent example of the fact that no one is waiting for such a tragedy, and you can safely take bribes. Well, in 1 out of 1000 the case will burn out, it's okay, no one died. And the main thing about Tuleyev is that he first complained to Putin about the protesters, and then released a video message about "bullying from all sides." That is, Khan has such a way of thinking.

I wonder what the "denunciators of the regime" are sick of, they somehow interfere with your stable life?

[Mestny]

The fact that they use any pretext, in this case human grief as an occasion to jump and scream against the authorities.
Do you realize there that by calling someone a khan, and by calling the President “ways,” you can safely expect that you will be called, for example, homosexual ..mi? Or killers. On the sole basis that "everyone knows that."

[friend of animals]

And do you think human grief is an accident? As for Tuleyev, I did not like his reaction to these events.

Do you have harmful logic, or are you ready to call someone a homosexual or a murderer if he criticizes the authorities?

[Mestny]

Human grief is the result of an accident. One of the results - accident, terrorist attack, war.
Once again I explain - criticism is not at all like watering with slops and hanging labels for any reason. All lovers of such "criticism" must be prepared that they themselves will be "criticized" in the same way on the same grounds.

[friend of animals]

This is not an accident, but criminal negligence, if not more.

Once again you will explain to your friends. Criticism is emotional, but the reasons are significant. People criticize the state, which is obliged to take care of them. People have a right to it. And for your answer, no, for criticism, no, and you do this only because of Lisobud’s motives ala Tabaki.

[gippernano]

even before the conclusion of experts about paralon, someone said something cheto, is this an accident?

[K.A.S.]

dear! and you don’t think about it. what kind of a child who wanted to scare his friends and make a joke could commit arson?
For some reason, this thought haunts me!

[Anatole Klim]

Quote: K.A.S.

some child could have set fire

Photographer-animator from the Kemerovo shopping center "Winter cherry" named the arsonist of the building.
The man said that he was the main witness in the case of the fire, as he saw the man who set the arson in the children's center, and even helped him get out of the burning shopping center building.
“The arsonist was a guy of 12 years old. That day he already tried to set fire to the attraction, but he could not finish what he had started, he was stopped. And a little later, he nevertheless brought the matter to the end. And he himself almost burned out in the smoke. I noticed him right away and saved him. And then he told the investigators about everything, ”said the animator. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/fire/39467081/?utm_conten
t = rnews & utm_medium = read_more & utm_source = c
opylink

[Dashout]

Wait, don't retype! Rambler is a liberal cuisine, you can trust it once in a while (and then double-check!).

[K.A.S.]

what to guess! need to wait for the results! I only said my thoughts!
I do not envy the teacher who stayed alive !!! how will she live with this? it’s a sin to say that. but for her it would be better if she died !!

[Dormidont]

A child from one of the children?

[Mestny]

Well of course. From the same, innocent parents, dying under the yoke of the bloody regime.
Of course I'm not joking. So they write.

[bogart047]

set fire does not reduce the guilt of the shopping center leadership. To shoot them too.

[Hariton laptev]

Question did the arsonists crawl out or stayed there?

[Pacifist]

My personal attitude, until I see the official report on the website of the Ministry of Emergencies and the Investigative Committee, or a direct report on the federal channels of the persons responsible for carrying out investigative measures, with the conclusion of the investigation on the results, I will consider any preliminary data no matter which channels, stuffing.

[BAI]

Well, of course, now everyone will blame on the child. And the fact that the children literally played on a barrel of gunpowder - no one cares. And in other shopping centers nothing will change.

[Hlavaty]

It is stated that fire laboratory specialists found that the fire began to spread from the children's “dry” pool

And where did he come from?

[Kosmotoga]

yes where from where ...... children can set fire too. There are such stupid people they break or burn.

here for example

[Million]

Corruption and stupidity. These are the main reasons for the tragedy. This can happen in any city.

[K-50]

I hope the guilty are executed !!!!! , but will not be sent to sleep on government bunks and at our expense.

[Mavrikiy]

We have a democracy. Salvage will win justice.

[igor.borov775]

Hello everyone on the site, I just watched on TVC how a large company checks a shopping and entertainment center in Moscow, I won’t retell it, but I get angry looking at a real show, They opened a box for a sleeve and a spray there is none, Eliminate, One of the managers of the center shows , Glancing at the drawer, the glorious company moved to the swing doors, One half works, the second on the internal latch is closed, Slowly opened the second half, Nobody bothered to time the time for these manipulations with the door, it’s not scary, but suddenly how long does it take to open this half, It won’t work out to open, you need a convenient external latch, but who will allow such good doors to spoil, While the center staff fiddled with the doors, I kept waiting for one to be stopped and asked what his personal actions would be in case of unforeseen situations, No, they do not see people at their door Interested in beautiful by the way, Everyone moved to the guard post, That's what. I saw a picture, But the main thing all depends on people, A strange picture in general,

[katkasi]

1. Judging by the video, where the men hammer the door with a crowbar, flashes of fire are visible on the stairwell. And the stairwell, like corridors, walkways, vestibules and vestibules, are evacuation routes where nothing burning, including the paint of walls and ceilings, should be defined.
2. In such shopping centers there should be not only a fire alarm, but also automatic fire extinguishing and smoke removal systems, which, if there were any, did not work at all.
3. The building code states that cinemas in the shopping center should be arranged no higher than the 3rd floor of the building, and the news says that they were on the 4th floor.
4. Judging by the speed of fire spread, building materials prohibited by the standards were used for interior decoration.
Based on the foregoing, it follows that the perpetrators should be sought among all participants in the construction of this shopping center, including all stages: design, project examination, construction and commissioning of the facility. Considering that the completed construction projects are now being accepted without the participation of the fire supervision inspector, it is necessary to ask the Gosstrojnadzor inspector with prejudice where he looked during the construction and commissioning of the facility.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

The Ministry of Emergency Situations called the main version of the reason

The main reason for all these terrible fires with victims, I consider it too fascinating for plastic (cheap) finishing materials (very combustible and poisonous) and judging by the video recordings, for 10 seconds everything is in poisonous smoke and flame .. Now, after all, they are everywhere, where you will not go , the slightest spark and instantly everything is in smoke and flame .. A couple of times you inhale and you are a corpse! They took the fashion from the West, pack everything in plastic (beautifully cheap quickly ..) .. He himself, even before all these tragedies, analyzed his hut .. The slightest closure and everything will burst with poisonous smoke, men are scared for the children! The guilty will be inflated and the terms will be good, but the children will not be returned .. The kingdom of heaven, they died a terrible death ..
Conclusion: you need to rip off all this plastic in places of mass events or to be non-combustible .. Yes expensive! But just like that ..

[Mestny]

Replace with expensive non-combustible materials? The owner of the institution will screw up the price at times. Citizens will yell that they cannot visit the gaming hall for their income, this is all for thieves and oligarchs, and the authorities are to blame for everything.
Close them completely? Citizens will yell that there is no place to leave their children, and the authorities are to blame for everything.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Mestny

Replace with expensive non-combustible materials? The owner of the institution will screw up the price at times. Citizens will yell that they cannot visit the gaming hall for their income, this is all for thieves and oligarchs, and the authorities are to blame for everything.
Close them completely? Citizens will yell that there is no place to leave their children, and the authorities are to blame for everything.

Citizens, this is what they will demand .. But LIBERASTRY in the padau will vomit poison and malice, which they are doing now, if only to flood Russia into confusion and silence ..
Tuleyev correctly said that seasoned provocateurs had gathered in Kemerovo to make political points on the mountain ..
I think it’s necessary to close EVERYTHING where children are present and everything is made of cheap plastic .. Firefighters checking (checked))))) Then they evacuate everyone and they drive these inspectors into this building and set fire and consider how many seconds they will run out and how they will put out. .If they put out .. The whole complex is accepted! Only in this way, otherwise this death of children is not the last .. ALL IN THE COUNTRY IN THE PLASTIC "beautiful" overlaid .. About natural building materials have already forgotten .. That's the result! I think it will blaze across Russia more than once ..

[Mavrikiy]

The soft floor, assembled from combustible materials, took up instantly, allowing the flame to scatter even further.

There were no "drunken horses" and decisions on it?

Properly functioning ventilation completed the tragedy, starting to disperse smoke and flame into neighboring rooms.

Exhaust ventilation - smoke from all rooms is drawn out. If it works in the discharge mode, then the smoke is still yes, it will fall in all directions.
In case of fire, ventilation should automatically switch to "exhaust" mode.

[Papandreou]

It remains to find out, as a result of which the "dry pool" caught fire

[Mestny]

Certainly not from the wiring. She is not there. And not from static electricity - if this were possible, it would catch fire much earlier.
All that remains is arson.
The only question is whose? either it’s a minor d. decided to play with fire, or it’s someone older with a clearly defined goal.

[Altona]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

But what kind of people are they - everywhere there is a hidden meaning to seek and blame the power ?!

---------------------------
In fact, the authorities themselves should be tough to understand, and not to wind the snot into a fist. And whoever you touch, godfather. matchmaker brother. Putin squeaked. that he will fight against nepotism and here you, a distant relative, have greeted me for a good job. Allegedly, "business qualities" are immeasurable. Under the USSR, this was illegal. I do not blame the authorities, but the authorities should use power in the case and to the place, and not for a showdown with those who disagree.

[Mestny]

Shopping center set fire to this relative?
Under the USSR, nepotism flourished and smelled to its full height. And what was told there on television and in newspapers is a different story.

[vladimirvn]

Moscow. March 28th. INTERFAX.RU - The investigation believes that the cause of the fire in Kemerovo was an irresponsible attitude towards the provision of the construction complex, said Aleksandr Bastrykin, head of the Investigative Committee.

"In order to strengthen the version that we are going to today, - to an ugly attitude towards providing the construction complex, financing, why such inspections (of the facility were), we will need to attract third-party organizations, so this will require some additional time," Bastrykin reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday.

According to him, the investigation considers it unlikely that a fire in the shopping center in Kemerovo from an open fire is unlikely. Http: //www.interfax.ru/russia/605784

[Mestny]

The first time I hear that it would catch fire not from the fire, but from an "ugly attitude".

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Mestny

The first time I hear that it would catch fire not from the fire, but from an "ugly attitude".

The fire has nothing to do with it .. As I understand it, the "bloody regime" and those who voted for it! That's the whole point of this hysteria on the dead children!
I think the Eiffel Tower will not be extinguished as a sign of mourning ... There is a persecution of Russia and ALL of us! These things begin in the tank and missile forces of Russia ..

[Vladislav_2]

The most interesting thing is that we do not learn from ERRORS .... stories !!! Recall the bar "lame horse" ....... where 156h died. The question arises: what LESSON we all learned from THIS? .... yes, no !!! Money in this world does everything! ... for the sake of enriching their miserable nature, they wanted to spit on those who suffer. And the matter is not in the president or the head of the republic! ... THE MATTER IS IN US OURSELVES !!! .. WE ceased to be the mass of people that was before ... when we came to help no matter the danger ....

[katkasi]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The soft floor, assembled from combustible materials, took up instantly, allowing the flame to scatter even further.

There were no "drunken horses" and decisions on it?

Properly functioning ventilation completed the tragedy, starting to disperse smoke and flame into neighboring rooms.

Exhaust ventilation - smoke from all rooms is drawn out. If it works in the discharge mode, then the smoke is still yes, it will fall in all directions.
In case of fire, ventilation should automatically switch to "exhaust" mode.

In case of fire, ventilation should be turned off, triggered by a fire alarm, and the smoke exhaust system should be turned on, and smoke should be emitted above the roof level by 2,5 meters.

[Zomanus]

The main thing is what lessons from this tragedy will be learned.
And now mourning and condolences. and after a year, repeat elsewhere.

[reservist]

Quote: Zomanus

The main thing is what lessons from this tragedy will be learned.

unfortunately, most likely the same as 8 years ago after the fire in the "lame horse" ...

[Archivist Vasya]

Oh come on, set fire to it. But no further than today they write the opposite !!!
"The investigation considers two versions of the cause of the fire - a short circuit and arson - while leaning toward the first."

RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/incidents/20180329/1517524619.html

[S_Baykala]

[quote = raw174] [quote = Anti-Corr.] .... here under Tsar John IV there were no man-made disasters ... And only for you, secretly, one of the largest man-made disasters occurred in the most solid USSR. I repeat, in Kemerovo is not a technological disaster. [/ Quote]
In fact, in the old days, something, and fires were a real horror for cities. Moscow burned out in blocks. 1547 year. Ivan the Terrible. Fire destroyed 1 / 3 (!!!) Moscow. 1700 (!!) perished on the 100 000 living. About 2% of the population. The reasons were not written then, but it could very well have started from production problems (forges, bread makers, etc.).
About the Ministry of Emergencies on cars without water. I ask you to think about this problem: a car full of water, moves an order of magnitude slower than an empty one. Near each major prom. or another building has a fire water supply, like they just walk along the streets, I don’t know, I won’t lie. The car pulls up, the sunroof is discarded, a keyless adapter is inserted, and the crane is opened. 20 probably.
The main reason for the tragedy is the presence of flammable and toxic substances in the playground (!). There were a lot of people. Why, according to the stories, it flashed so that the people who were there could not put it out. They didn’t even try. Useless. And these same toxic materials did not give the most precious minutes (seconds) for the evacuation of people. We in a dry forest as a child more than once extinguished a fire that had just begun (I confess, sometimes we ourselves were the cause - children). You will trample, with clothes, throw sand over - that's all.

[radar1967]

The cause of the fire is in one very small word. The word is small, and the problem is very large. So big that the policemen are afraid of voicing it. And the word is -AUE ..
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%A3%D0%95