Military Review

The owner of the Kemerovo shopping center "Winter Cherry" was detained

260
In the city of Kemerovo, the investigating authorities summoned the owner of the ill-fated Zimnyaya Cherny shopping center for questioning. Recall that at this time it is known about 37 who died in the fire, more than 50 affected and at least 64 missing (among the dead, injured and missing people - children). Missing children - about 40.


The owner of the Kemerovo shopping center "Winter Cherry" was detained


After the interrogation of the owner of the Winter Cherry Shopping Center, Nadezhda Suddenok was detained.

Local media reported that, based on information from the Emergencies Ministry, the center of ignition was probably a children's trampoline hall located in the entertainment zone of the shopping complex. It is for this reason that among the victims - a large number of children.

One of the witnesses to the fire reports that the PSC employees who worked in the shopping center were simply not ready for the development of events and themselves fell into a panic, having lost the opportunity to assist in bringing visitors to the shopping center out of the building enveloped in flames.

Emergency exits, as we have already reported, were closed, which led to an additional number of victims. Many have suffocated from carbon monoxide, which in huge amounts began to appear as a result of burning plastic structures and interior decoration of shopping centers.

Upon the tragedy, criminal cases were initiated under several articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, including "Violation of fire safety requirements, which resulted in the death of two or more persons by negligence."

It is noted that in addition to the owner of the shopping center, law enforcement officers detained two more people. According to some information, one of them is responsible for fire safety in the Zimnyaya Chery shopping center.
Photos used:
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  1. Vard
    Vard 26 March 2018 07: 11
    +27
    In addition to jokes with my wife, I conduct teachings once a year ... evacuation from crowded places ... was in childhood ... scared for life ...
    1. Alex_Rarog
      Alex_Rarog 26 March 2018 07: 27
      +21
      Condolences to families ... because of such freaks who are ready to put on elementary TB for the sake of a penny people are dying ...
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 26 March 2018 09: 02
        +1
        Quote: Alex_Rarog
        Condolences to families.

        Lord accept their souls .....
        Quote: Alex_Rarog
        because of such freaks who are ready to put on elementary TB for the sake of a penny

        Closed evacuation exits? Automation what was not?
        1. K-50
          K-50 26 March 2018 09: 22
          +18
          Quote: Vadivak
          Closed evacuation exits? Automation what was not?

          As a rule, they are blocked, or additional locks, chains are hung in order to prevent an "illegal" exit. Disengage only for the time of checks that are known in advance and manage to bring to them in proper form. Fires do not give such an opportunity.
          1. vaaaaadik
            vaaaaadik 26 March 2018 09: 42
            +11
            Absolutely right! For example, in St. Petersburg, in almost all shopping and entertainment centers, fire exits ban bans on huge locks and security guards somewhere, and then we get such tragedies. Well, firefighters close their eyes with a chubby envelope.
            1. _MaX_
              _MaX_ 26 March 2018 10: 33
              +11
              PTB are written in blood. Elementary mess and sloppiness. How many more shopping centers in the country have the same problems. Right now you’ll start to boil, they will start shmon on all the shopping centers. Where have you been asked before.
              By the way, people who are local write that the real numbers for the dead are 170 two hundredths, 350 three hundredths. In order not to breed even more, you are boiling over the loss data. In general, this is a scandal, of course, and the president has already been reported, so the owner of the shopping center is likely to go to Magadan.
              1. Now we are free
                Now we are free 26 March 2018 10: 51
                +6
                The deepest condolences to the relatives of the victims. Unfortunately, for the most part, those who are least prepared for such children suffer ... Look at the tragedy in Volokolamsk and now in Kemerovo. Alas, this is not the last such tragedy (pah-pah-pah), that it was a terrorist attack, a drink ... oh, or a coincidence, it remains to be understood, BUT the tendency when such emergencies go one after another leads to very bad thoughts. Too many accidents ... In this case: Unaccompanied children, the fire alarm did not work, fire exits are closed, movie theaters are on the 4th floor and not on the first or second ... I don’t want to build versions all the more now, I just want to say MUSICS TAKE CARE OF YOUR CLOSE AND ESPECIALLY FOLLOW CHILDREN! Once again, the deepest condolences to all the relatives and especially the parents of the victims.
                1. _MaX_
                  _MaX_ 26 March 2018 12: 35
                  0
                  But by the way, not the fact that the owner will be closed. If the roof is good. They will give a command with a high feed - do not touch, that's all. They’ll make some kind of Alyosha who might just be out of business (well, or in business, but to a lesser extent), so we do it.
                  1. lwxx
                    lwxx 26 March 2018 13: 00
                    +3
                    Confectionery King, billionaire, owner of KDV Group Denis Shtengelov, who actually owned the Winter Cherry shopping center in Kemerovo,
                  2. g1v2
                    g1v2 26 March 2018 13: 54
                    +2
                    Sorry, but bullshit. At least 5 people should sit down, and the owner among them will be only if she grossly ignored the requirements of the fire inspector or, by her order, the rules of the fire instruction were violated.
                    They can sit down - the person responsible for fire safety (usually the chief engineer or power engineer), the emergency shift on duty (MOST DEATH ON THEIR CONSCIENCE), representatives of the company that set the alarm (in case of failure) or the one who turned off the alarm and did not turn it back on. Well, the inspecting fire inspector (if he closed his eyes to violations or did not check at all).
                    As the commander of the fire brigade, I can say that most often the human factor and division are to blame for everything. request
                    1. Trotil42
                      Trotil42 26 March 2018 17: 23
                      +1
                      WOW ... sit down with a security guard from CHOP? Bullshit ... what does he have to do with it? There is a change of three people ... 132 cameras control. 2 parking lots .... pieces of 20 chipovanny zones ... a couple of hundred keys ... pieces of 8 alarm panels ... there is no time to pee ... 22 thousand square meters . an area ... on which 1.5 thousand people revolve ... a sauna ... shops ... cinemas .. and youth gangs there share their spheres of influence ... the police do not intervene ... see the Emergencies Ministry ... your signatures are under acceptance ... this is your blood .. during the existence of the center of the Ministry of Emergency Situations did not check it ... it is right to tell the minister how many people came to stew ...
                2. Anti-Corr.
                  Anti-Corr. 26 March 2018 15: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Now we are free
                  Unfortunately, for the most part, those who are least prepared for such children suffer ...

                  And how should the child be prepared when on Sunday he had the "happiness" to relax in the children's entertainment center or should they be born MCHsnikami?
                  Quote: Now we are free
                  BUT the trend when such emergencies go one after another leads to very bad thoughts

                  All thoughts are only about one thing, our country (state) is not suitable for life. There is a strong impression that they intentionally kill us, they kill us mentally and physically, but this
                  Quote: Now we are free
                  MUSICS TAKE CARE OF YOUR CLOSE AND ESPECIALLY FOLLOW CHILDREN!
                  not true, otherwise the state that should teach, treat and protect!
                  The people must wake up, so can no longer continue.
                  I express my condolences.
              2. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 26 March 2018 11: 09
                +3
                Quote: _MaX_
                so that the owner of the shopping center is likely to go to Magadan.
                --- For life and grab the fire chief who waved the reception of the building. Plus a bunch of officials-misfortunes and rotozeys. This will be true of burnt alive children.
              3. tomket
                tomket 26 March 2018 11: 47
                +2
                Quote: _MaX_
                Right now you’ll start to boil, they will start shmon on all the shopping centers. Where have you been asked before.

                In theory, you are boiling a couple of months ago it should have already begun when a series of false calls swept about the mining of shopping centers around the country. Sam found a similar evacuation, five minutes and the shopping center was completely empty.
                1. Sewer krainiy
                  Sewer krainiy 26 March 2018 13: 06
                  +1
                  In theory, you are boiling a couple of months ago it should have already begun when a series of false calls swept about the mining of shopping centers around the country. Sam found a similar evacuation, five minutes and the shopping center was completely empty.
                  Window dressing. He carried out such planned exercises. As in the troops - everyone knew that tomorrow at 5.00 there will be a training alert. But ... in the working order periodically went into any room of the building, announced a fire alarm and monitored the actions of personnel. Moreover, a specific object, a bank. Windows, doors on swing gratings and locks ... everyone knew where the keys were, their actions. For 5 minutes they did not jump out, but acted confidently. Ugh, ugh ... god had mercy. Condolences to relatives and friends ...
                  Yes, I’ll add, out of my professional habit, going into trade, everyday life and other public buildings, I look at fire safety. Alas....
              4. syndicalist
                syndicalist 26 March 2018 13: 49
                +1
                Information about the owner and her avatar from the VK account

            2. zloybond
              zloybond 26 March 2018 21: 44
              0
              Well, that's all the facts so to speak. Here's a wife reading facebook. says more than 700 dead. And moreover, bodies are issued from the morgue on receipt of non-disclosure. That's where the truth is. Where is the lie ???
              1. your1970
                your1970 27 March 2018 09: 45
                0
                the mayor has already invited initiative groups to the morgues, so that they are convinced of the quantity ...
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 01
            +13
            Quote: K-50
            As a rule, they are blocked, or additional locks, chains are hung in order to prevent an "illegal" exit.

            I am in the subject. Automation unlocks the locks when the fire alarm is turned on. So it either didn’t exist, or this building is a former factory of a confectionery factory, which went bankrupt and sold for a penny is simply not equipped with such a system, the actual owner of the building is an Australian citizen, billionaire Denis Shtengelov, the king of snacks, seeds of “Grandma’s seeds”, wafers, sweets and chips, made a fortune in Russia and moved to permanent residence in Australia, where he opened a tennis and golf academy for citizens. I wonder how it is with a fire alarm?

            Nadezhda Sudenok is just a founder
        2. badens1111
          badens1111 26 March 2018 09: 25
          +2
          Quote: Vadivak
          Closed evacuation exits? Automation what was not?

          The first thing they must check is how and who signed the acceptance certificate for the operation of this complex.
          Second ... why it seems to me that this whole disaster, not an accident, but a kind of sabotage. And it is not by chance that such a number of child victims.
          Look for someone who benefits.
          Horror from the realization that the children died ..
          Condolences to family and friends, all over Kemerovo.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 21
            +1
            Quote: badens1111
            The first thing they must check is how and who signed the acceptance certificate

            Here everything will be OK. At the time of admission, everything worked.
            Quote: badens1111
            Second ... why it seems to me that this whole disaster, not an accident, but a kind of sabotage

            May be. Some sort of fooled around. Often teens smoke anywhere and whatever
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 26 March 2018 13: 10
              +3
              Quote: Vadivak
              Often teens smoke anywhere and whatever

              Of course, of course .. the easiest way to write off .. the plane pilot fell, the submarine drowned, the commander, the shopping center burned out, the child played a fool ..
              The opinion of a simple officer.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-yOis05b3g
              Most of you voted to continue all this outrage for another six years. Patriot Stengelov, the owner, is happy to indulge his children who live in Australia and travel around the world, but decided to save money on his shopping center. Stengelov's holding KVD is among the top 100 largest private companies in Russia according to Forbes. He produces brands such as Kiriyeshki, Three Korotki, Crisp and Beerka, so money is not a problem for a businessman. The eldest son of Shtengelov - Ivan - graduated from the most famous and most expensive boarding school for boys Southport. On social networks, Ivan boasts private jets, relaxing in a ski resort and having fun with friends. He calls himself a "Russian gangster." Shtengelov took care of all his closest relatives. So, for example, the elder sister Julia led the constructed sports complex, moving from Switzerland to Australia. Shtengelov family members often rent business jets for flights. The cost of such a VIP service starts from several tens of thousands of dollars. The billionaire’s children love parties and VIP vacations at ski resorts and the most fashionable beaches. And you - burn in corrals.
              1. ARES623
                ARES623 26 March 2018 19: 42
                +1
                Quote: badens1111
                Most of you voted to continue all this outrage for another six years.

                Probably, choosing someone Titov + Sobchak (with Grudinin to boot), you hoped to come to the society of perfectly responsible and competent specialists and performers? Utopia....
              2. Victor-M
                Victor-M 26 March 2018 23: 10
                0
                Quote: badens1111
                Most of you voted to continue all this outrage for another six years.

                Or maybe it’s your fucking apple and Sobchak minority that is trying to spoil the country in which it lives in this way, for your liberal brotherhood of the 90s, personal gain is a primary goal.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 26 March 2018 23: 48
                  0
                  Vitya, maybe you won’t poke rotten apples and other dregs to me, but will you eat and keep him silent?
                  Other meanings are closer to me, red if for accuracy, therefore, do not shine with what is considered indecent in a decent society.
              3. Victor-M
                Victor-M 26 March 2018 23: 14
                0
                Quote: badens1111
                The opinion of a simple officer.

                Skripal?
                I know a couple of such officers who, in reasoning about the lack of justice in our country, completely forgot about their own parents, of course, discussing others is more pleasant, less troublesome, less costly and calmer than investing really yourself.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 26 March 2018 23: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Victor-M
                  I know a couple of these

                  Here someone already said .. I will repeat
                  “Even the special term“ duropatriots ”appeared. They are just darkness. 2
                  Are you one of them?
                  Calm down, Vitya ...
          2. Anti-Corr.
            Anti-Corr. 26 March 2018 10: 38
            +5
            Quote: badens1111
            Horror from the realization that the children died ..
            Condolences to family and friends, all over Kemerovo.

            Condolences must be expressed to the whole country, over the past 18 years a huge number of people have died in disasters, remember Bulgaria, airplanes infinitely falling, fires .... Looking at all this, it seems to me that the whole country is on fire, because gas explosions in we don’t pay attention to apartments, but this happens every day .... Can it be that people will not understand that they are cynically killing them?
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 26 March 2018 10: 50
              +15
              Quote: Anti-Corr.
              it happens every day .... Doesn’t the people really understand that they are cynically killing him?

              Another dancer on the bones. Agitators, (censorship) fool
              When, then (censorship), will something fall on you? "Every day the same" happens "!
              But no ... not with your happiness ...
              1. Anti-Corr.
                Anti-Corr. 26 March 2018 11: 09
                +5
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Another dancer on the bones. Agitators, (censorship)
                When, then (censorship), will something fall on you? "Every day the same" happens "!
                But no ... not with your happiness ...

                Kote, it seems to me that you have lost your mind, I sincerely regret you ....
                1. Redfox11
                  Redfox11 26 March 2018 12: 13
                  +3
                  He said everything correctly, any idiot understands your dubious political agitation, here it is inappropriate.
                  1. Anti-Corr.
                    Anti-Corr. 26 March 2018 12: 17
                    0
                    Quote: RedFox11
                    He said everything correctly, any idiot understands your dubious political agitation, here it is inappropriate.

                    I'm curious if this will be deleted or not? what
                2. badens1111
                  badens1111 26 March 2018 13: 11
                  +1
                  Quote: Anti-Corr.
                  sincerely sorry ....

                  Don’t touch ..this .. he’ll blabber everything, shit on you, in the end, he will lead you to the ban. Premier gentleman.
                3. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 26 March 2018 14: 53
                  +5
                  Quote: Anti-Corr.
                  Kote, I think ...

                  ASYAwhen it seems - you have to be baptized yes
        3. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 26 March 2018 09: 59
          +4
          One of the witnesses to the fire reports that the employees of the private security company, who worked in the shopping center, were simply not ready for the development of events and panicked themselves, having lost the opportunity to assist in the removal of visitors to the shopping center from the flames of the building
          Today, almost in any regional center there are similar entertainment centers. In Orel, for example, there is the TMK “GREENN”, where the center for children's recreation with attractions is located on the 4 floor, where people usually go up the escalator or by elevator. The cinema hall is located at the other end of the complex.
          I am sure that after what happened, the complex will be checked for the presence and performance of emergency exits.
          But the main reason lies elsewhere. And this is PANIC!
          Not a single modern building, anywhere in the world, is designed for the simultaneous departure of thousands of visitors - be it a theater, a stadium, and even more so a multi-story building.
          SORROW. SATISFIED TO THE RELATIVES OF THE KILLED.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 19
            +2
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            TMK "GREENN"

            They compared the former slaughtered confectionery factory whose owner is still not reachable because Australia is far away, and TMK GRENN, whose owner is a construction engineer himself for a moment, has registered the business in Orel and is not going to leave anywhere.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 26 March 2018 10: 24
              +2
              Quote: Vadivak
              They compared the former slaughtered confectionery factory whose owner still can not get it because Australia is far away, and TMK GRENN the owner of which for a moment the construction designer himself

              I agree .. Greshilov invested in GRINN for an adult. I have been there more than once. And I can say that God forbid, there will be a fire with smoke, and in GREEN there will begin a panic with all the consequences ...
              hi
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 32
                +1
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                and in GREEN, a panic will begin with all the consequences ...

                There was once a smoke and automation and security worked well. hi
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 26 March 2018 10: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  There was once a smoke and automation and security worked well.

                  Yes? I do not remember... what Wife works there - did not tell ...
                  But structurally, the 5 floor, reserved for children, has one escalator leading to the 4 floor, as well as a couple of elevators with a passage through the restaurant, and an emergency exit located in the rear service part of the premises.
                  1. Vadivak
                    Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: stalkerwalker
                    Wife works there - did not tell ...

                    The back room smoked, at 14
              2. tomket
                tomket 26 March 2018 11: 52
                +1
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                I agree .. Greshilov invested in GRINN for an adult. I have been there more than once. And I can say that God forbid, there will be a fire with smoke, and in GREEN there will begin a panic with all the consequences ...

                Once again, I myself observed a similar evacuation. Just five minutes and everything is empty. Provided that you have an alert turned on, and the security and security personnel do not leave the shopping center first.
        4. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 26 March 2018 10: 06
          +5
          Quote: Vadivak
          Closed evacuation exits? Automation what was not?

          Women are usually hired to work in such centers, but of course they do not take emergency rescue courses.
          It is scary to imagine: fire, smoke, screams, children with parents rushing around in search of a way out. Elevators can not cope with escalators, and then, possibly, they stop due to overload.
          Even trained sailors on ships are lost in such situations ... And here, for the most part - women and children ... On passenger ships, crews conduct weekly exercises and alarms on their own, and upon arrival on board passengers, work out with them joint actions to leave the ship in case of fire. But if we recall the panic shot aboard the Costa Concordia, then everything is clear ...
          PANIC is the main cause of death ...
          1. Sewer krainiy
            Sewer krainiy 26 March 2018 13: 35
            +2
            It is scary to imagine: fire, smoke, screams, children with parents rushing around in search of a way out. Elevators do not cope with escalators, and then, possibly, they stop due to overload
            As far as I remember, elevator evacuation in case of fire is prohibited, because electricity is cut down. They extinguish with water. And the panic - I agree. In such centers on each floor, if necessary, and in every room, especially where there are children, there should be trained duty personnel, relieved of other duties, clearly knowing the escape routes. The capacity of these paths, the occupancy rate of the rooms should be calculated ... But this is money ... and a lot of "loafers", because there is no fire, and they roam along the corridors. But, most importantly, fire prevention in such buildings. PPB should be performed from A to Z.
          2. Incvizitor
            Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 20
            0
            Elevators do not cope with escalators
            Should elevators not be blocked when such a fire?
        5. New Year day
          New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 23
          +5
          Quote: Vadivak
          Closed evacuation exits? Automation what was not?

          some excerpts from the press:
          1. "Adults fled from the mall," pushing and crushing children. "
          2. “The crowd rushed through one narrow door. For some reason they didn’t open the second exit (was it there?), And they didn’t open the second wing at this door "
          3. “Rescuers go to the fourth floor of the burnt shopping center. One of the evacuation doors was closed. I had to open it. ”
          4. Earlier, a video appeared on the Web, where you can see how men are trying to break the door in the Kemerovo shopping center, fleeing the fire. (There is profanity in the video). In addition, it was reported that the doors to the cinema halls of the burning shopping center were closed.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 38
            +1
            Quote: Silvestr
            In addition, it was reported that the doors to the cinema halls of the burning shopping center were closed.

            Well, that’s the answer. There was no automation.
        6. g1v2
          g1v2 26 March 2018 13: 46
          +2
          Most likely, the locks should have been automatically unlocked when an alarm was triggered. But the alarm did not work and, accordingly, the locks did not unlock automatically. It is possible that the alarm was turned off during some work or turned off. But in this case, the security had to unlock the doors from the remote control and start the signaling itself.
          I myself, among other things, am the fire brigade commander in the factory. PM training and passing standards - annual.
          Thc my opinion is unambiguous. Chopovtsy - THE MAIN REASON FOR SUCH NUMBER OF DEATH. Confused and did not work according to the instructions, which is why so many people died. The next reason is the company that installed the alarm system, if it was not disconnected specially for the duration of some work. If it was turned off, then the producer of the work and the person responsible for their control, who was supposed to monitor the activation of the alarm after the end of the work, were also to blame.
          Also, in any company or institution there is a person responsible for fire safety. Which is required to monitor compliance with all rules and regulations.
          And finally - a fire inspector who checked the mall if the alarm was malfunctioning. and the outputs are blocked.
          In general, people should sit 5-6, if not more. Moreover, the owners of shopping centers may not be among them. request
        7. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 14
          0
          Closed evacuation exits?

          Maybe they are forced with trays ... at the head of profit from each meter and security does not concern.
      2. Alber
        Alber 26 March 2018 09: 41
        +3
        Quote: Alex_Rarog
        Condolences to families ... because of such freaks who are ready to put on elementary TB for the sake of a penny people are dying ...

        Mess! It's time to introduce a firing squad for these business traders. Money Mist turns a blind eye to security breaches
        1. dauria
          dauria 26 March 2018 11: 48
          0
          Mess! It's time to introduce a firing squad for these business traders.


          They themselves are not substituted. There is a hired director, he appoints orders from those of the same hired. The owner is clean by law. And in general, compared with the past, there is a wild situation - combustible materials in decoration, the combination of junk trade and entertainment (cinema, cafe, sports), multi-storey buildings, rents of every free piece, a bunch of small "figures". And the hopes of a fire alarm are ridiculous, even if it’s okay.
          It is necessary to revise the rules for such establishments (where there are more than 50 people at a time) completely. This incident is a nightmare that could happen in any of our city without exception.
      3. forester
        forester 26 March 2018 17: 33
        +1
        Quote: Alex_Rarog
        Condolences to families ... because of such freaks who are ready to put on elementary TB for the sake of a penny people are dying ...

        But it infuriates me that they detained a bribing trifle, and not a greedy swallowing pike, and it was this pike or pikes that took the object into operation and monitored and checked - this is the result - dozens of dead. Condolences to the families of the victims ......
    2. Hagalaz
      Hagalaz 26 March 2018 07: 28
      +2
      Sound the technique, in general terms? No kidding.
      1. dima9990
        dima9990 26 March 2018 08: 01
        +19
        If you are about teaching in the family, then the technique is simple. House-documents, first-aid kit and underwear in one bag in the closet of the corridor. I go to the cinema only in a separate building. And he taught children to the same. In the shopping center we are not scattered, well studied the scheme of the shopping center in which we go most often. You’ll laugh, but I went around the shopping center several times to understand where to run, if that. And for the house, look at the gas masks on the Internet. They work 15 minutes, but this is enough to get out of the smoky staircase.
        1. andrej-shironov
          andrej-shironov 26 March 2018 08: 53
          +1
          smile Dmitry, it turns out I'm not the only one! In my case, evacuation training is added at the moment of the start of any military operations. laughing In this case, it is better to overdo it than not!
          1. dima9990
            dima9990 26 March 2018 10: 22
            +2
            Andrei, I strongly doubt that in the event of hostilities it will be possible to evacuate. Novosibirsk will turn into dust, like all cities with a population of over 500 thousand inhabitants)))
          2. dima9990
            dima9990 26 March 2018 10: 36
            +1
            And yes, Andrey, there are a lot of us.))) Apparently there is only one school)
            1. andrej-shironov
              andrej-shironov 26 March 2018 12: 11
              0
              It’s unlikely that they will spend on nuclear weapons, maximum nuclear weapons, but in our region there are facilities for which they will spend nuclear weapons. In any case, I prefer to fight, and not cover myself with a white sheet and crawl towards the nearest cemetery.
              1. dima9990
                dima9990 26 March 2018 12: 56
                +1
                But in case of natural disaster, yes. Routes have been developed for each member of the family, depending on the location, collection point, and further actions if my mother or I did not appear before the control time. More precisely, they were developed, so now the children have their own families. )
                1. andrej-shironov
                  andrej-shironov 26 March 2018 14: 07
                  0
                  good Dmitry, you are great! Now I am also working in this direction.
        2. alstr
          alstr 26 March 2018 09: 37
          +1
          Here it is only necessary to note that gas masks with coal (i.e. ordinary boxes) do not help from carbon monoxide, but they can filter toxic fumes from plastic, etc.
          For this, special ADDITIONAL cartridges are produced for the gas mask, which neutralize (partially with) carbon dioxide.
          There are insulating gas masks, but they are very bulky due to air tanks.

          In addition, various "self-rescuers" are now being produced, which are focused specifically on protection against combustion products. There is a type of ordinary respirator / gas mask, and there is an insulating type (i.e. with a supply of air.).

          And so the easiest way to REDUCE carbon monoxide poisoning is a wet rag (you can just pee on it).

          But in any case, a gas mask, a self-rescuer (if they are not insulating), a rag DO NOT WORK if there is no oxygen.
          1. cosmonaut
            cosmonaut 26 March 2018 10: 14
            +3
            worked in the mine. God pardoned for all the time there was one small fire, I didn’t even have to turn on the self-rescuer. while others at our mine had a conveyor belt burned, the guys had to go 15 meters to the fresh stream, so half of the cancer had already crawled to the fresh stream ... coal self-rescuers help from СО.CO2 is not so scary. coal self-rescuers instantly clogged with soot flakes, and it was not possible to breathe. I think when the plastic burns, soot will be no less. after the fire we were given insulating self-rescuers. bigger dimensions, it seems 2.5 kilograms There are no oxygen tanks in it. There is a special chemical mixture that releases oxygen. Filter carbon self-rescuers are suitable for burning straw.
            1. alstr
              alstr 26 March 2018 10: 58
              +1
              So it is clear that gas masks and respirators are better.

              Everything else is just a small additional chance to hold out for a few minutes longer.

              And yes. In a fire, it’s better to move crawling (especially if there is nothing against carbon dioxide).
              1. cosmonaut
                cosmonaut 26 March 2018 11: 42
                0
                In a fire it’s better to move crawling ...

                actually carbon monoxide is heavier than air. I don’t think that it’s right to crawl. On the contrary, it can be more dangerous ... we were taught to go with an average step, so that breathing was even. In no case do not run ... but about a coal self-rescuer, I just wanted to say this, it’s a psychological defense. To reassure myself. It helps when burning a bale of straw. In a fire, without exaggeration, we had to breathe exactly twice, and that's all, you won’t blow it. It was just thrown out as a useless thing ... in case of a good fire when you can’t see anything, it’s dark from the smoke, because even the light does not penetrate, there will be more benefit from the well-known way - to pee on a rag and breathe with it. From the 4th floor it’s enough to walk.
                I wrote this to the fact that we must be prepared for everything. It even happens that isolating self-rescuers can be defective
                1. alstr
                  alstr 26 March 2018 11: 56
                  +1
                  About creeping - it is written in all the instructions for the PB.

                  And about ready for anything - I completely agree.
                  1. Vadivak
                    Vadivak 26 March 2018 13: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: alstr
                    About creeping - it is written in all the instructions for the PB.

                    True, there is less smoke below
          2. Sewer krainiy
            Sewer krainiy 26 March 2018 13: 45
            +1
            In the classroom they said that there was a case: the hotel was on fire, there were many who died from combustion gases. The Japanese survived - they smashed the toilets and breathed air from the sewers.
        3. san4es
          san4es 26 March 2018 09: 57
          +1
          Quote: dima9990
          ... gas masks. They work 15 minutes, but this is enough to get out of the smoky staircase.

          ... Individual self-rescuer from a height of MONOSPAS - 10 seconds, and you are in the yard.

          Base price: 21900 r. / Pcs
          1. dima9990
            dima9990 26 March 2018 10: 25
            0
            My wife rejected such a thing. She said that in the hustle and bustle she could not use it without my help. So the gas mask was chosen for this reason.
          2. Alber
            Alber 26 March 2018 10: 41
            0
            Quote: san4es
            Quote: dima9990
            ... gas masks. They work 15 minutes, but this is enough to get out of the smoky staircase.

            ... Individual self-rescuer from a height of MONOSPAS - 10 seconds, and you are in the yard.

            Base price: 21900 r. / Pcs

            Hm! Nice thing!
            Where to get one?
            1. san4es
              san4es 26 March 2018 11: 05
              +1
              Quote: Alber
              ... Where to get one?

              ... Thai where it is more convenient ... Follow the link hi :
              https://yandex.ru/search/?text=Индивидуальный%20с
              rescuer% 20s% 20height% 20MONOSPAS% 2015 & cli
              d = 2270457 & banerid = 020134301508353547688374535
              148%3ABRO-6ac47b58ae74&win=271&lr=51
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 39
        +3
        Quote: Hagalaz
        Sound the technique, in general terms?

        Yeah. The phrase type only mass executions will save the homeland.
    3. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 26 March 2018 07: 34
      +3
      It is necessary to punish the truly guilty persons responsible for why emergency exits and other security breaches were closed. And again, as usual, the authorities practically do not conduct checks (for well-known reasons) for safety, and this is the tragic result when it ends.
      May the earth be lost in the tragedy.
      1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
        Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 26 March 2018 07: 42
        +21
        Quote: Spartanez300
        here is the tragic result when it ends.

        The Lame Horse taught nothing. How hard it is to read the lines about the death of children. I am grateful to the relatives of the victims ... As TASS was told by the chief state inspector for fire surveillance of the Ministry of Emergencies, Enikeev, in the “Winter Cherry” shopping center MORE THAN TWO YEARS planned inspections were not carried out to monitor the elimination of previously identified violations, since in July 2015 the State Duma adopted, approved by the Federation Council and signed by the President of the Russian Federation federal law No.246-ФЗ, which provides for the introduction of a risk-based approach to optimize, reduce costs and increase productivity approach in the implementation of state control (supervision) and municipal control, and according to which a three-year BAN to conduct scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses.
        1. Operator
          Operator 26 March 2018 08: 06
          +7
          The owner of the shopping center ascribed a bribe to her center with large revenues from leasing space to small businesses.

          The fire alarm worked in the shopping center, but the fire extinguishing system did not work, there was no water for fire brigades in the outdoor hydrants, emergency exits were closed.
          1. Scoun
            Scoun 26 March 2018 09: 29
            +1
            Quote: Operator
            The owner of the shopping center ascribed a bribe to her center with large revenues from leasing space to small businesses.

            Usually behind such "owners" is the real owner.
            For example, I know the director of one shopping center and the owner and the shopping center of the director of the individual entrepreneur.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 38
              +5
              Quote: Scoun
              Usually behind such "owners" is the real owner.

              guys! What are you talking about! The owners of Domodedovo after the explosion could not be found (or did not want to)! That’s who the masters of the country are!
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 26 March 2018 10: 46
                +6
                Quote: Silvestr
                What are you talking about!

                Hands ahead of thought?
                Quote: Silvestr
                (or did not want to)! That's who the masters of the country are!

                It’s a bit thick, a bit thick ... if only in such a topic, that ... they held a tongue or something negative
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 26 March 2018 11: 09
                  +7
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  a bit thick, a bit thick ... if only in such a topic, that ... they held a tongue or something

                  tired of you with your moralizing. Can you refute?
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 26 March 2018 12: 20
                    +5
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Can you refute?

                    What? What did you pull Domodedovo’s ears here? And all for the sake of one phrase about "that's who the owners" are?
                    Duc, this ... there is nothing to refute request
                    1. Incvizitor
                      Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 33
                      +2
                      What? What did you pull Domodedovo’s ears here? And all for the sake of one phrase about "that's who the owners" are?

                      This is a pity for us children, but for them a reason for power to yap.
                2. New Year day
                  New Year day 26 March 2018 11: 17
                  +2
                  “Russian President Dmitry Medvedev demanded a separate report from Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika about the owners of Domodedovo Airport. He expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the confusing story with the owner of the airport.” Did you figure out Domodedovo? Who is the owner? "The president asked Seagull."
                  Further on the link, I hope to master.
                  https://russass.livejournal.com/134405.html
                  1. Vadivak
                    Vadivak 26 March 2018 13: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    "Domodedovo" Who is the owner? "

                    Sean Cairns and Jane Peters. British citizens are both lawyers (but who is behind them?)
            2. 23424636
              23424636 26 March 2018 11: 31
              +1
              THERE BABA is supposedly a representative of the owner IN THE SURNAME Vishnevskaya Iraida was named Cherry in her honor, and that Nadya Celltyjr is easy to cover. She was the head of the cement factory personnel training department and suddenly became the owner of the shopping center, of course a fiction. And the real owner of the poets by the name of Shtengelov Denis, on behalf of his office, rented premises in this terrible place.
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 26 March 2018 10: 41
            +2
            Quote: Operator
            Owner of the shopping center

            She is not the owner. Owner in Australia lives.
            1. Operator
              Operator 26 March 2018 19: 18
              0
              It’s not a question - we open a criminal case against the nominee owner of the shopping center, charge compensation to the relatives of those killed and injured for the material and, most importantly, moral damage caused by her actions / inaction, we sell the shopping center under the hammer to compensate for the damage and voila - the “owner” from Australia is no longer owner.
        2. 210ox
          210ox 26 March 2018 08: 18
          0
          So we have tragedies on a regular basis. Here, the businessmen are to blame, and the inspections are many .. It's all terrible ... 40 children are missing ....
          Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Quote: Spartanez300
          here is the tragic result when it ends.

          The Lame Horse taught nothing. How hard it is to read the lines about the death of children. I am grateful to the relatives of the victims ... As TASS was told by the chief state inspector for fire surveillance of the Ministry of Emergencies, Enikeev, in the “Winter Cherry” shopping center MORE THAN TWO YEARS planned inspections were not carried out to monitor the elimination of previously identified violations, since in July 2015 the State Duma adopted, approved by the Federation Council and signed by the President of the Russian Federation federal law No.246-ФЗ, which provides for the introduction of a risk-based approach to optimize, reduce costs and increase productivity approach in the implementation of state control (supervision) and municipal control, and according to which a three-year BAN to conduct scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses.
          1. Starover_Z
            Starover_Z 26 March 2018 09: 25
            0
            Quote: 210ox
            So we have tragedies on a regular basis. There are also businessmen to blame, and inspections, and many ..

            The people, that we all rush after the tragedies at the operators and test instances ?!
            You need to look at the root! It is necessary to take the "soft spot" of designers in the first place and customers, although the latter are less guilty. Designers and contractors, these are the first culprits!
            1. bardadym
              bardadym 26 March 2018 15: 19
              0
              Quote: Starover_Z

              The people, that we all rush after the tragedies at the operators and test instances ?!
              You need to look at the root! It is necessary to take the "soft spot" of designers in the first place and customers, although the latter are less guilty. Designers and contractors, these are the first culprits!

              And now:
              1. First of all, we are looking for a plan or diagram of the Winter Cherry shopping and entertainment center located in Kemerovo on the Internet.
              2. We consider the number of emergency exits. I remind you that elevators and escalators do not belong to emergency exits. We wonder, at least on our own fingers, how many people could have escaped from there if they were all open.
              3. We apologize to the designers.
        3. spirit
          spirit 26 March 2018 08: 25
          +6
          Yeah, in my memory, all the shopping centers that were burning didn’t work in one of them, neither the alarm nor the smoke removal and fire extinguishing systems negative , I give my head for clipping, if the shopping centers still burn, nothing will work there either
          1. Scoun
            Scoun 26 March 2018 09: 36
            +1
            Quote: spirit
            Yeah, in my memory, all the shopping centers that were burning didn’t work in one of them, neither the alarm nor the smoke removal and fire extinguishing systems negative , I give my head for clipping, if the shopping centers still burn, nothing will work there either

            I have a friend, all of February wound to Moscow and checked the protection of structures, fire extinguishing and smoke removal systems and eliminated all the identified problems, and the directors of these huge shopping centers "asked" to check.
        4. Gray brother
          Gray brother 26 March 2018 08: 58
          +3
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          th PROHIBITION for conducting scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses.

          "Stop nightmare business" is the same.
          1. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 26 March 2018 09: 33
            +4
            Quote: Gray Brother
            "Stop nightmare business" is the same.

            Do you know the saying "Teach a fool to pray to God - he will break his forehead"? Here the situation is just from this category. Small business suffered the most from unjustified inspections, which very often led to the closure of the enterprise. The mall was registered as a "small" business, and since they did not check the small business. But small business is "different" for small businesses. Our legislation and law No. 246-FZ, in particular, are “raw”, which was confirmed by the Kemerovo tragedy. How can I level a bakery, cafe, small shop (with two sellers) or a computer repair shop, etc. with such malls? And according to our laws, a small taxi company for 100 cars and a plant (dividing it by IP), and, apparently, such shopping centers can be declared a small business entity. Yes, plus "small thanks", without which the work of the "controllers" can not do. Engaged in the installation of fire and security alarms and other "low voltage" and "a little" in the subject. A year ago, he put a video intercom in one of our business centers and was very surprised at the fact that the doors of the offices open inside the offices! According to fire safety rules, doors must open outwards. I asked the hostess of the office how this could be, because it’s impossible! And she says that the leadership of the BC makes everyone do this ... Here’s how and what to think: is it also a “small business”, or does the inspector leave with “gratitude” every time?
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother 26 March 2018 11: 16
              0
              Quote: EwgenyZ
              . How can I level a bakery, cafe, small shop (with two sellers) or a computer repair shop, etc. with such malls?

              Easy and laid back.
              A dozen fictitious firms are created and everything - each, like, belongs to a piece of the shopping center.
              It is unlikely that something can be done about it.
              PS:
              Left legal entities with seals and other crap exist in every commercial organization, at least in all the places where I had to work they were.
              1. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ 26 March 2018 11: 24
                0
                Quote: Gray Brother
                Easy and laid back.
                A dozen fictitious firms are created and everything - each, like, belongs to a piece of the shopping center.
                It is unlikely that something can be done about it.
                PS:
                Left legal entities with seals and other crap exist in every commercial organization, at least in all the places where I had to work they were.

                And I'm talking about! And the law No. 246-FZ "raw" and our legislation relating to business.
            2. your1970
              your1970 27 March 2018 09: 56
              0
              There is a government decree determining the turnover and the number of employees, all that up to 100 people and 400 million a year of turnover is small business
        5. AlexVas44
          AlexVas44 26 March 2018 09: 00
          +2
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          three-year PROHIBITION for conducting scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses

          These are all the costs of a known expression.
          But the lack of control by the authorities for security is a nightmare. For the population.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 26 March 2018 09: 19
            +4
            Quote: AlexVas44
            But the lack of control by the authorities for security is a nightmare.

            Checks - the lawlessness of the authorities (tortured completely). The government is to blame.
            There are no checks (they asked not to torment) - there is no control by the authorities. Power is again to blame.
            Amazingly, in my opinion, these businessmen of all kinds should be torn so that it was their smoke coming from the stern and planting them and those who inspect them as they did under Stalin.
            They don’t understand otherwise, only repressions will save this country.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 46
              +4
              Quote: Gray Brother
              Checks - the lawlessness of the authorities (tortured completely). The government is to blame.
              There are no checks (they asked not to torment) - there is no control by the authorities. Power is again to blame.

              so the fact is that they nightmare those who can not or do not want to pay off or find themselves in competitors.
              Do you find prudence in the actions of the authorities in principle?
              If hospitals were broken for 3 years, FAPs were closed, and then Putin says that everything needs to be restored?
              If Putin says it is necessary to eliminate poverty and immediately the government begins to discuss the increase of income tax and the abolition of 10% of discounts on medicines for the population?
              Many examples can be given, but I don’t feel like it anymore.
              It is true that at the top someone wrote a mess.
              1. Gray brother
                Gray brother 26 March 2018 11: 03
                +2
                Quote: Silvestr
                Do you find prudence in the actions of the authorities in principle?

                I do not find prudence in the actions of citizens in the first place, the desire to earn more and spend less for this, everything is overshadowed by them.
                I myself regularly encounter fire inspectors at work, and I have no complaints about them and their work, we have violations, but minor ones, and we eliminated all major ones according to their instructions, so they don’t pay much attention to the minor ones.
                And no competitors will dig into us, and we are not required to pay off from anyone. Am I clearly spelling out?

                Quote: Silvestr
                cancellation of 10% discounts on medicines for the population?

                My mother receives all essential drugs for free. For the rest - I do not know what discounts are there and where they are, I have not seen them.
                What is FAP, I don’t know at all. About hospitals - you tell them in bulk, they love this, but the fact that patients there may come up to their heads is not interesting.
                Everywhere where it was possible to repair, it was repaired, and where it was not repaired, you need to ask the local administration where they shared the money.
        6. your1970
          your1970 26 March 2018 11: 47
          0
          A ban on legal / IP verification was established by another 294-FZ (until the end of 2018) ..

          Quote: Operator
          The owner of the shopping center ascribed a bribe to her center with large revenues from leasing space to small businesses.
          - according to the decree of the Government - small business income of up to 120 million per year and the number of less than 15 people.So she almost legally excluded herself from checks if the number of her legal entities / individuals (not tenants !!!!) is less than 15
        7. Himdym
          Himdym 26 March 2018 11: 59
          0
          we have, as usual, upside down. indeed, for prom. Risks are easily assessed by enterprises at the development of safety measures, but with similar ratings for fuel dispensers, warehouses and car services, it’s tight, while the risk-oriented model supposedly works.
          The dead cannot be returned, but maybe we already have enough of these lessons, and it’s time for the state to take up its direct functions, and !?
        8. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 31
          0
          to conduct scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses.

          That is rather a question with which shopping center small businesses are recognized. There is nothing to greet the president.
      2. Alber
        Alber 26 March 2018 09: 26
        +2
        Quote: Spartanez300
        It is necessary to punish the truly guilty persons responsible for why emergency exits and other security breaches were closed. And again, as usual, the authorities practically do not conduct checks (for well-known reasons) for safety, and this is the tragic result when it ends.
        May the earth be lost in the tragedy.

        For these bargains of sheik-lenders, capitalist-businessmen worshiping the Golden Calf, the health and life of the common people is not worth a penny. I hope the "New" president will disperse his entourage, the State Duma, the government and will take care of restoring order, restoring industry, creating jobs.
        In the end, it will determine the main task to improve the life of the Russian people, as well as formulating a 5-year plan (the five-year plan to restore the destroyed industry after cataclysms comparable to the Russian war ...
        1. Don
          Don 26 March 2018 11: 17
          +4
          Quote: Alber
          I hope the "New" president will disperse his entourage, the State Duma, the government and will take care of restoring order, restoring industry, creating jobs.

          Yeah, of course, put things in order. Yes, under him there were as many similar tragedies as the country did not see in all Soviet power, and even under Yeltsin there were no such tragedies. Every week, the gas explodes, then a fire, then the planes fall, then the buses crash, then the buildings collapse, etc. But he has nothing to do with it, as always. Some clown will be blamed, and tomorrow another will be put in his place from above and the clock will begin a new countdown to the next tragedy. Ugh, it's disgusting to look at the faces of real killers who are turned on TV around the clock.
          1. your1970
            your1970 27 March 2018 09: 34
            0
            Quote: Donskoy
            Yes, under him there were as many similar tragedies as the country did not see in all Soviet power, and even under Yeltsin there were no such tragedies.
            - if you have not been told this, this does not mean that this was not ...
            1) a ship in Ulyanovsk in the 70s under the bridge
            2) "Admiral Nakhimov"
            3) Marshal burnt down at the spaceport
            4) emission at the Mayak
            5) Chernobyl
            6) Sverdlovsk -19 (epidemic)
            7) Saratov, 74th, typhoid (!!) (up to 600 dead)
            8) the pensioners' house burned down in our country in 1978 - 92 dead
            9) the explosion of trains near Ufa, 1989, 575 people were killed (according to other sources 645), 181 of them were children
            10) collision of aircraft with Pakhtakor, 1979
            11) and further, further
            "But he has nothing to do with it, as always." - and "dear Leonid Ilyich !!" was also for some reason nothing to do with ...
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 26 March 2018 07: 40
      0
      strange - in the mining region there are such "bewildered"
      1. dima9990
        dima9990 26 March 2018 08: 06
        +3
        There are no mines in Kemerovo. I read that the evacuation was organized by peasants from among the visitors to the shopping center.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 26 March 2018 08: 42
          +1
          are there all with bows go?
          Or are they all more versed in metallurgy and mining?
          I have never gone down to the mine - except Adzhimushkaysk quarry
        2. Hammerlock
          Hammerlock 26 March 2018 10: 13
          0

          There are no mines in Kemerovo.

          The first time I hear that there are no mines in our region
      2. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 26 March 2018 09: 20
        +5
        Quote: antivirus
        strange - in the mining region there are such "bewildered"

        People are just people. A day off, in the shopping center, as a rule, most women and children, because you can’t drag men into the store on the lasso, and women are usually prone to panic. Here the men from the guard were confused, so what to talk about women. Owners of shopping centers usually use plastic and synthetics for interior decoration, saving on natural materials, which in case of fire leads to the fact that these shopping centers turn into natural gas chambers. Surely the majority of those who died first lost consciousness from suffocation by burning plastic products and only then died from thermal burns. A terrible and ridiculous death. Condolences to the families of the victims.
      3. K-50
        K-50 26 March 2018 09: 25
        0
        Quote: antivirus
        strange - in the mining region there are such "bewildered"

        So not everyone works in mines and not everyone has the skills to evacuate from unfamiliar places.
    5. vlad66
      vlad66 26 March 2018 09: 01
      +5
      At the moment, 37 deaths from the fire, more than 50 injured and at least 64 missing are known (among the dead, injured and missing - children). Missing children - about 40.

      Lord, children again! It is very scary to read such lines, accept condolences and sympathy for the relatives of the deceased, victims of a speedy recovery and relatives of the lost faith, miracles sometimes happen. Mourn
    6. san4es
      san4es 26 March 2018 10: 00
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      In addition to jokes with my wife, I conduct exercises once a year ... evacuation.

    7. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 12
      +1
      Emergency exits, as we have already reported, were closed, which led to an additional number of victims. Many have suffocated from carbon monoxide, which in huge amounts began to appear as a result of burning plastic structures and interior decoration of shopping centers.

      Well, who allowed this finish? Gave a paw? For this it is necessary to imprison for life or the death penalty.
      Condolences to families.
      And shame on rotten people who immediately began to mix politics.
  2. Sergey985
    Sergey985 26 March 2018 07: 13
    +1
    Condolences to the loved ones of the dead.
  3. svp67
    svp67 26 March 2018 07: 13
    +4
    The owner of the Kemerovo shopping center "Winter Cherry" was detained
    If only she turned out to be the real owner, and not another "zits chairman Pound" ....
    1. Sergey985
      Sergey985 26 March 2018 07: 19
      +1
      Detained, imprisoned. Will the problem itself remain? Again, a campaign across the country, but all calm down? Until the next tragedy? All these malls save on fire safety, a purely formal approach.
      1. svp67
        svp67 26 March 2018 07: 26
        +6
        Quote: Sergey985
        All these malls save on fire safety, a purely formal approach.

        So it's time to introduce confiscation, or rather material liability, for the dead and put fire inspectors. So let them sit and pay compensation to the relatives of the victims and victims of such fires. It is clear that these shopping centers cannot pass a fire inspection without a bribe.
        1. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 26 March 2018 07: 32
          +4
          Quote: svp67
          It is clear that these shopping centers cannot pass a fire inspection without a bribe.

          on "look.ru" read:
          At the same time, Zimnaya Vishnya shopping and entertainment complex did not check fire supervision services, since this is a small business object.

          small business yells that it is "nightmare". stopped, here is the result.
          1. lwxx
            lwxx 26 March 2018 07: 47
            +9
            Well what small business? How can a shopping center be a small business? So any airport can be called small business, here the question is for the local authorities how they turned it around. But knowing our country, they will begin to check the stalls and small points of sale. As it was after the tragedies in Vladivostok and Lame Horse.
            1. Cxnumx
              Cxnumx 26 March 2018 08: 14
              +5
              Quote: lwxx
              Well what small business? How can a shopping center be a small business?

              easily.
              The maximum allowable amount of annual revenue without VAT for the previous year for microenterprises increased from 60 to 120 million rubles, and for small enterprises - from 400 to 800 million rubles.
              The permitted share in the authorized capital of a small enterprise of other commercial organizations that are not small and medium-sized enterprises has increased - from 25% to 49%.
              But the permissible average number of employees has not changed: no more than 15 people for microenterprises and no more than 100 people for a small enterprise.

              without any “left schemes”, bribes and other things. 100 people for such a center is a normal number, because the tenants of the premises of this shopping center are not its employees. on revenue, too, may well fit.
              1. Monster_Fat
                Monster_Fat 26 March 2018 08: 38
                +1
                Outsourcing drives to ... help like a "small" business .... And such a small business throughout Russia that operates at a "minimum rate", "to zero" or "at a loss" and "without personnel" ..... ..
                1. Cxnumx
                  Cxnumx 26 March 2018 08: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Monster_Fat
                  And such a small business throughout Russia which type operates at a "minimum rate", "to zero" or "at a loss" and "without personnel" .......

                  I add that not only in Russia, but in general throughout the world.
                  1. Monster_Fat
                    Monster_Fat 26 March 2018 09: 01
                    +3
                    I met interesting options in the "outback" in Russia, there came cops "on call" to shovel one "factory" on Sunday, such as for illegal immigrants, and there the production process is in full swing and none of the workers are officially employed, and even and they work on a "day off", to the question, why do they work? the owner’s answer followed, but they don’t work, they help me .... free .... wink
                2. your1970
                  your1970 26 March 2018 11: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Monster_Fat
                  Outsourcing drives to ... help like a "small" business .... And such a small business throughout Russia that operates at a "minimum rate", "to zero" or "at a loss" and "without personnel" ..... ..
                  - if she rents premises and has less than 100 people - she is a small business according to the above Government Decree and 294-FZ ....
                  and no outsourcing will help here - its real profitability is unlikely to exceed 800 million per year.
              2. lwxx
                lwxx 26 March 2018 09: 28
                0
                For such a shopping center as in Kemerovo, 800 million a year is a loss. Yes, the number of employees is 50-80 people, the rest are third-party services (security, outsourcing, etc.). 23 thousand square meters of which more than 20 thousand. in rent. Do not confuse profit with turnover.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 26 March 2018 07: 43
        +1
        All these malls save on fire safety, a purely formal approach.

        and when they built:
        flammable plastic? - is it in the project?
        or "all world class"?
        standard evacuation routes?
        1. Skarpzd
          Skarpzd 26 March 2018 08: 29
          +2
          the lack of combustible materials for the project and technical passport does not mean that the construction contractor has not saved. an example is the burned-out skyscraper of the Ministry of Emergencies in Krasnoyarsk. according to the documents there, too, everything was in order.
      3. Gray brother
        Gray brother 26 March 2018 12: 02
        0
        Quote: Sergey985
        All these malls save on fire safety

        In fact, not everything, in large networks all the rules, it makes no sense to save on construction or safety - then it will cost more. But in solitary sheds can be anything.
    2. himRa
      himRa 26 March 2018 07: 30
      +3
      The scale of the tragedy
      https://m.samara.kp.ru/daily/26810.7/3846077/
  4. K.A.S.
    K.A.S. 26 March 2018 07: 14
    +9
    Close the comments! There will be a tantrum, smart tips and a dance on the bones!
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 26 March 2018 08: 34
      +8
      Are you a strange person, people who are sincerely consoled and frankly outraged that people died, is it your dance on bones? If you listen to people like you, then you probably don’t need to know anything at all, but the easiest way is to introduce censorship and there is nothing to ignore and ignore !!! The question is where did the services responsible for fire safety look ??? Why do not resonate with relevant conclusions and again, unfortunately, our citizens die ???
    2. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 38
      +3
      Here only the Zagrudinians dance on bones "Putin bad" and normal people condole and discuss the problem.
  5. Herculesic
    Herculesic 26 March 2018 07: 15
    +1
    Now the main thing is to conduct an honest and impartial investigation, not to look for the scapegoat, to find and publicly punish the real culprits of the tragedy, but there will be many! Still sincerely condolences to all those who suffered in this terrible tragedy.
    1. himRa
      himRa 26 March 2018 07: 33
      +3
      Quote: Herkulesich
      Now the main thing is to conduct an honest and impartial investigation, not to look for the scapegoat, to find and publicly punish the real culprits of the tragedy, but there will be many!

      1-Now the main thing is to put out the fire that continues
      2-Ready to donate blood for those who suffer
      3-ready to donate money if help fund is created
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 26 March 2018 07: 41
        +2
        Ready to donate blood for those who suffer
        3-ready to donate money if help fund is created
        hi and the state and the owner again stand aside?
        1. himRa
          himRa 26 March 2018 07: 46
          +3
          Quote: bubalik
          and the state and the owner again stand aside?

          No longer worth it! Aman Tuleyev said this!
          But nobody canceled the personal help!
          You do not want to stay away from the tragedy hi
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 09: 36
            +6
            Quote: himRa
            But nobody canceled the personal help!

            What money means to mother now. Wouldn’t be crazy after that. You will not wish such an enemy.
            Vostrikov Artem, 5 years

            Vostrikov Roman, 2 of the year

            Vostrikova Anna, 7 years
            Agarkova Masha, 10 years

            Agarkov Kostya, 8 years

            Trusova Veronika, 8 years

            Trusova Vasilisa, 5 years

            And that's not all
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 09: 43
          +4
          Quote: bubalik
          and the state and the owner again stand aside?

          Here you are standing aside
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 26 March 2018 09: 56
            +1
            Lexander Romanov ↑
            Today, 10: 43
            . You are trying so hard to judge the sins of others, start with yours and you won’t get to strangers.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 09: 58
              +3
              Quote: bubalik
              . To judge the sins of others you are so eager to break

              Then cover your mouth and think what and when you can write, and what to write inappropriate.
              1. bubalik
                bubalik 26 March 2018 10: 05
                +1
                Provoke? Well, you know how to be rude,
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 10: 07
                  +3
                  Quote: bubalik
                  Well, you know how to be rude,

                  I can! Therefore I write cover your mouth and think what and when you can write, and what to write inappropriate.
                  I do not want to be rude in this topic
                  1. bubalik
                    bubalik 26 March 2018 10: 16
                    +3
                    Alexander Romanov ↑
                    Today, 11: 07
                    . Nda Romanov, a bad case, what do not get angry .... acne bursting. Adju hi
    2. nadezhiva
      nadezhiva 26 March 2018 07: 35
      +6
      For me, the main thing is to make a difficult political decision: to close ALL shopping centers that are not equipped with emergency evacuation exits from the upper floors. Separate decision db taken in cinema halls. And to set the owners a condition: to build these outputs at their own expense, preferably external, i.e. across the street.
      Just punish .... What kind of sense? The perpetrators of the Lame Horse fire were punished. So they almost all came out on parole. They sat and left. And the dead cannot be returned.
      The black smoke that fell during this fire causes a wild desire to bring to trial all the firefighters (not 1-2) who took and controlled this building, along with the owners of the shopping center.
      1. 24rus
        24rus 26 March 2018 07: 41
        0
        Hope, I agree, in any such center, if you turn off the electricity, there will be complete darkness, and in the smoke and flea market it’s not really possible to look for a way out
        1. Scoun
          Scoun 26 March 2018 09: 44
          +2
          Quote: 24rus
          Hope, I agree, in any such center, if you turn off the electricity, there will be complete darkness, and in the smoke and flea market it’s not really possible to look for a way out

          They handed over a shopping center a year ago, so I want to say that they did everything according to the PROJECT. The project included light indicators with batteries that should work an hour after a power outage ... and we took everything according to the project.
          1. 24rus
            24rus 26 March 2018 10: 14
            0
            How long is the battery in such an indicator? There is a strong doubt that hucksters after passing the shopping center will be interesting to spend money on replacing batteries
            1. nadezhiva
              nadezhiva 26 March 2018 10: 45
              +1
              Batteries can not always be saved. Often the cinemas in the shopping center are located as if in a block. And 1 leads to this block !!!!! input. If the entrance area is blocked by fire and dense puffs of smoke, then the children themselves will not exit. And when they are closed in the hall ... This is completely beyond reality. With nostalgia now we recall our old cinemas, with an additional exit from the hall to the street, if it is on the 1st floor, or to the stairs, again leading to the street.
              1. Scoun
                Scoun 26 March 2018 11: 17
                +2
                Quote: nadezhiva
                Batteries can not always be saved.

                Absolutely right! In general, disaster is a whole link of errors.
                In the "Winter Cherry" during a fire, no one turned off the building (the batteries would not have helped,) illiterate criminal actions by the guards, an inoperative fire extinguishing system ..... the whole chain that led to disaster.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 49
        +1
        Quote: nadezhiva
        it is a difficult political decision to make: close ALL shopping centers that are not equipped with emergency evacuation exits from the upper floors.

        and most importantly, take real owners for Faberge
  6. Lynx33
    Lynx33 26 March 2018 07: 17
    +5
    And where is the news about the detention of a fire inspector who successfully closed his eyes to this badak.
    1. purple
      purple 26 March 2018 07: 23
      0
      In a fire at the Winter Cherry shopping center, an 11-year-old relative of the Governor of the Kemerovo Region died. Aman Tuleyev himself told reporters about this.


      So I think they’ll definitely not let me down on the brakes ...
      1. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 26 March 2018 09: 58
        0
        And the rest ???
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 51
        +2
        Quote: purple
        In a fire at the Winter Cherry shopping center, an 11-year-old relative of the Governor of the Kemerovo Region died. Aman Tuleyev himself told reporters about this.


        So I think they’ll definitely not let me down on the brakes ..

        so it turns out, only hope for it. How scary is that. We do not even hope for an honest investigation until someone RELATIVELY appears in the tragedy.
        The crisis and distrust of the entire justice system, the realm of money and protectionism!
        This is our life today.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Ushly_bashkort
      Ushly_bashkort 26 March 2018 07: 36
      +2
      There will be no detention. Another question is how did shopping centers fall into the category of small business? Can anyone enlighten?
      http://tass.ru/proisshestviya/5064261
      The burning shopping center in Kemerovo was not checked by supervisory authorities

      TASS, March 25. The burning winter shopping and entertainment center "Winter Cherry" in Kemerovo was not inspected by fire control, since it is an object of a small business, for which supervised holidays are valid. This was reported to TASS by the chief state inspector for fire supervision of the Ministry of Emergencies, Rinat Enikeev.

      "An audit to control the elimination of previously identified violations was supposed to be carried out in 2016. But since this object belongs to small business, the audit could not be carried out due to supervisory holidays," he said.

      In July 2015, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed into law on the introduction of supervisory holidays for small businesses. The law established a three-year ban on the conduct by state control (supervision) and municipal control bodies of scheduled inspections in relation to small businesses. Moreover, the ban does not apply to persons who have committed gross violations of the laws of the Russian Federation during the previous three years
    4. Maxim_2
      Maxim_2 26 March 2018 07: 37
      +4
      The so-called "moratorium" is applied to the verification of small businesses on issues of ensuring fire safety. As a result - a series of fires in large shopping centers throughout the country. The Prime Minister (the one who is not Dimon) once banned the "nightmare of business" and here is the result. Unscrupulous business representatives wanted to spit on fire safety in the absence of control by the regulatory authorities.
  7. Vitas
    Vitas 26 March 2018 07: 22
    +2
    And how many more such shopping centers ?! We recall the White Horse Club ... In addition to switchmen and demonstration inspections, it is necessary to establish effective work - of the controlling bodies, and for people to conduct classes on civil defense. We laughed here a long time ago, the Swedes issued a pamphlet on how to survive in extreme conditions, during the war ... But ours don’t even know it, people need to be trained, then there will be fewer victims.
    1. karish
      karish 26 March 2018 07: 25
      +6
      Quote: Vitas
      Club "White Horse" remember

      White horse is whiskey
      The club was called - * Lame Horse *
      Terrible tragedy.
      The most profound condolences.
    2. Serge Gorely
      Serge Gorely 26 March 2018 07: 27
      0
      White? It seems like a lame horse.
  8. bubalik
    bubalik 26 March 2018 07: 24
    +11
    This is a terrible fire exit blocked video there is where men are trying to knock the door, children suffocated at the exits am ! Missing, but there two cinema halls collapsed, the class was full with children! The boy jumped from the window ,,,
    Internal security at the level of African countries on the plane will not fall so you burn in the movies.
    Right now with smart “faces” they’ll do something on TV, they will do uncle Vasya as an extreme and all-remarkable in the country. am am

    When the children die
    Then the birds suddenly fall silent
    And the sun in my eyes does not shine
    And eyelashes do not tremble.
    When the children die
    The planet cries from grief
    And the hands fell like whips
    No longer play them the ball.
    And mother cannot sleep for a long time,
    Rushing about, moaning in bed
    The baby waking her dreams
    Desired her in the cradle.
    Nights flight is heavy
    Make you forget in a dream
    And again, the kid is cheerful,
    And the sun sparkles in my eyes.
    And the pens play the ball
    And the legs run towards
    But in the morning the dawn is blind
    And grief lowered shoulders.
    And grief to the heart, like a whip,
    This one is tormented by pain
    No one agrees with death
    With the death of children - even more so.
    When the children die
    For this, we are all responsible ...
    1. You Vlad
      You Vlad 26 March 2018 08: 12
      +5
      Quote: bubalik
      Right now with smart “faces” they’ll do something on TV, they will do uncle Vasya as an extreme and all-remarkable in the country.

      But you then you know exactly who is to blame? Man speculating on the deaths of children ..
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 26 March 2018 08: 27
        +3
        Everything will be so, and you understand it perfectly, but you don’t want to admit it,
        1. You Vlad
          You Vlad 26 March 2018 08: 32
          +2
          Quote: bubalik
          do not want to admit ,,,

          And here you don’t want to admit that you are compassionate for a certain purpose? That is, are you promoting your interests on the deaths of children?
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 26 March 2018 08: 39
            +2
            Which ones can be of interest?
            1. You Vlad
              You Vlad 26 March 2018 08: 42
              0
              Quote: bubalik
              Which ones can be of interest?

              Yes, a certain focus ..
              1. bubalik
                bubalik 26 March 2018 08: 57
                +2
                You Vlad ↑
                Today, 09: 42
                Well, what are you all looking for some kind of hidden meaning No.
              2. badens1111
                badens1111 26 March 2018 09: 12
                +5
                Quote: You Vlad
                Yes, a certain focus ..

                Does it hurt my eyes?
                Well, read, the fire in the shopping center is the result of greed, stupidity and bribery, both the owner of the shopping center and the services obliged to carry out legal measures to prevent this, but they preferred to make money, the result killed 53 people, sacrificed the lives of children to Mammon.
                You do not want to see this point blank?
                1. You Vlad
                  You Vlad 26 March 2018 10: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Does it hurt my eyes?

                  Are you an investigator? A prosecutor? Everything is clear already, the perpetrators are appointed! And where is the presumption of innocence? Investigative measures are being taken, the mistress has been detained.
                  Quote: bubalik
                  Right now with smart “faces” they’ll do something on TV, they will do uncle Vasya as an extreme and all-remarkable in the country.

                  Everything is wonderful in the country, there is no body, no business, but the media will cover everything up, yes Sergey?
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 26 March 2018 17: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: You Vlad
                    Everything is clear already for you, the perpetrators are appointed! And where is the presumption of innocence?

                    That, that does not work PPP, OWNER’s fault.
                    The fact that some kind of security guard knocked out an alert means that the system constantly malfunctioned, and if so, the next glitch of the system was ignored, they knocked it out and appointed him as the switchman, not the owner of the shopping center and the one who built with violations and accepted with violations.
                    Tales, they say the child was played with matches, a question for the staff of the shopping center, like children unattended, where are the means of the teaching staff, for which the owner of the shopping center is again responsible.
                    So be silent.
          2. RaptorF22
            RaptorF22 26 March 2018 08: 47
            +1
            Apparently you judge by yourself? ?
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 10: 14
        +4
        Quote: You Vlad
        But then you know exactly who is to blame? A person speculating on the deaths of children ..

        There are such "people", they write and do not understand that they are dancing on the bones
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 42
          +3
          They understand everything ... rotten just through and through ...
  9. Terminolol
    Terminolol 26 March 2018 07: 27
    0
    Condolences to family and friends! Innocent children were hurt by the greed and neglect of adults.
  10. Separ
    Separ 26 March 2018 07: 30
    +2
    Private security employees are usually working pensioners. Who would help them in such a situation ... all these entertainment centers are big matchboxes - one match and a fire.
  11. Just a man
    Just a man 26 March 2018 07: 31
    +3
    I felt so sorry that I did not sleep for a minute today. Represented these children, their horror.
    1. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 26 March 2018 07: 37
      +6
      Quote: Just a man
      I felt so sorry that I did not sleep for a minute today. Represented these children, their horror.

      And you slept normally, and you didn’t even show sympathy ...
      1. Just a man
        Just a man 26 March 2018 07: 52
        +4
        Are you down or seer?
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      2. bubalik
        bubalik 26 March 2018 08: 15
        +4
        it would just be silent ...
        ,, On March 20, the shopping center burned down in Angarsk, thank God without victims, they were silent, but maybe if it would have been announced on federal channels, there would have been checks in the shopping center and such a tragedy could have been avoided,
        1. your1970
          your1970 26 March 2018 12: 02
          +1
          and you put it mildly ....... - even at such a tragedy, just to kick the power ("the damned power was silent - in order to put more people to death" !!!? yes?)
          Who was silent ??? Offhand 2 channel TV
          https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2998391&cid=
          17
          https://360tv.ru/news/chp/pozhar-v-tts-irkutsk/
          Газеты
          https://www.irk.kp.ru/online/news/3059257/
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 26 March 2018 18: 26
          +1
          Quote: bubalik
          On March 20, a shopping center burned down in Angarsk, thank God without victims, they were silent, but maybe if they would have voiced this on federal channels

          maybe yes. No one canceled Pendal’s asshole
  13. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 26 March 2018 07: 35
    +3
    I hope the call is not limited. The leader is always to blame for what happened, his boat, and he should row ....
  14. Gardamir
    Gardamir 26 March 2018 07: 45
    +1
    Well, when the guilty person is immediately found, then there will be no questions to the rest.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 09: 45
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      Well, when the guilty person is immediately found, then there will be no questions to the rest.

      Here is a provocateur
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 26 March 2018 10: 24
        +1
        Here is a provocateur
        Who! Owner of the mall? Do you think she is a provocateur?
  15. Nechaev
    Nechaev 26 March 2018 07: 51
    0
    Horror, so many children died.
  16. mamont5
    mamont5 26 March 2018 08: 01
    0
    Quote: antivirus
    strange - in the mining region there are such "bewildered"

    And what does the region have to do with it? Mines here remained a few. In Kemerovo itself, not a single one.
    Already passed 48 dead and 16 b / v, consider that too ... 2 cinema hall failed from 4 floor to 3 ...
  17. loki565
    loki565 26 March 2018 08: 04
    0
    According to eyewitnesses, they could not turn on the light in the cinema and evacuation was carried out in the dark, which caused panic. Maybe the electrician short-circuited, there it seems like she was being repaired recently
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. Pavil144
    Pavil144 26 March 2018 08: 04
    0
    I’m in a shopping center in my city, a 2-story building has never noticed emergency exits, maybe located behind shelves. It is a pity for the dead and their relatives.
  20. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 26 March 2018 08: 12
    +1
    Life imprisonment! ! !
  21. rus-5819
    rus-5819 26 March 2018 08: 12
    +5
    Quote: 24rus
    Hope, I agree, in any such center, if you turn off the electricity, there will be complete darkness, and in the smoke and flea market it’s not really possible to look for a way out

    Evacuation passages and exits are equipped with self-illuminating signs. On the floor (where there is less smoke and visibility is better), a self-luminous tape is laid - an exit direction indicator. And these are the requirements of the "Regulation on fire safety measures". Unfortunately, in no institution with a mass presence of people did not observe this. Maximum - exit signs and wall posters.
    At the enterprise where he worked, daily the instructors went to their sites, for each violation of the PPB, they wrote out an order to the head of the unit. They fought for every left box in the corridor, fire extinguishers were checked monthly, and not once every five years. And still, sunbathing and smoke occurred.
    Therefore, I consider the prohibitions on fire safety checks - wrecking!
  22. Victor_B
    Victor_B 26 March 2018 08: 18
    +10
    Now I live in the bourgeoisie and do not stop wondering how much this fire safety system is well organized here!
    In ANY building, ALL emergency exits open 24 hours a day simply from the inside.
    You don’t have a door on the lock, but a “Key at the guard”.
    The fire alarm is checked several times a year IN EVERY APARTMENT (in apartment buildings). With the entry into each apartment !!!
    I’m sure (I didn’t stand with a candle) that the shopping center is even stricter.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 26 March 2018 10: 54
      +2
      Quote: Victor_B
      now in bourgeoisie

      so then in bourgeoisie! This is the same as comparing .....
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 26 March 2018 11: 25
      +6
      Quote: Victor_B
      Now I live in the bourgeoisie and do not stop wondering how much this fire safety system is well organized here!

  23. Skarpzd
    Skarpzd 26 March 2018 08: 21
    +2
    [quote = Spartanez300] It is necessary to punish the truly guilty persons responsible for why emergency exits and other security breaches were closed. And again, as usual, the authorities practically do not conduct checks (for well-known reasons) for safety, and this is the tragic result when it ends.
    happened to be in this mall, as in many others. my opinion - it can happen in anyone! no options! firefighters are closed everywhere. the logistics of all these centers is such that in order to get to the exit - you have to cross the entire room - the marketing ploy, so to speak. playgrounds - usually on the upper floors. hence the result. .
  24. savage1976
    savage1976 26 March 2018 08: 22
    0
    Condolences.
  25. Skarpzd
    Skarpzd 26 March 2018 08: 25
    +1
    Quote: dima9990
    There are no mines in Kemerovo. I read that the evacuation was organized by peasants from among the visitors to the shopping center. And another such moment, who goes on guard? Infantiles, which even if taught, try to avoid classes.

    well, according to my observations, retired dunks are coming to our guard (former employees of the penitentiary institution, former employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, or those who don’t know what to do at all)
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 26 March 2018 08: 30
      +3
      Retirees are ideal for such work.
      Most of them are not dunks at all, but they clearly know and follow the instructions.
      And you call them “cocks” only because they will not let them in and will not let them go there / from where they are not supposed to.
      And they will not smile.
      1. Skarpzd
        Skarpzd 26 March 2018 08: 34
        0
        well, they’ve been called oaks since the time of the BB, where the name came from - I don’t know. stuck to our days.
        1. Victor_B
          Victor_B 26 March 2018 08: 52
          +3
          Here is an amazing logic.
          Tsarist officers are highly educated and cultured people. Bulk crackles. Nostalgic.
          Soviet / Russian Officers - Dubaks! For VV (now, by the way, the National Guard!), The FSIN - these are under-officers, slag, prisoners.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 26 March 2018 11: 05
            +1
            Quote: Victor_B
            Here is an amazing logic.
            Tsarist officers are highly educated and cultured people. Bulk crackles. Nostalgic.
            Soviet / Russian Officers - Dubaks! For BB (now, by the way, the National Guard!), FSIN - these are underofficers, slag, watchmen.

            please tell me, can you imagine a royal officer stomping a living child?
            I think that you, like me, answer no.
            And in Kerch, this scoundrel, even the word "underofficer" is worthless to use, shot his parents and drowned a car with a living child in the sea.
  26. darksoul
    darksoul 26 March 2018 08: 44
    +2
    the earth rest in peace, it’s incomprehensible to a specialist how a fire alarm, sow, asv, aspd could not work ......... all these systems are powered by the first class, besides they were autonomous and had to work on batteries ... ............ it is necessary to plant, or the customer saved money, but someone in fact responsible was signing from firefighters this ..............
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 26 March 2018 08: 56
      0
      Are you an electronics specialist or are you installing these systems?
      (Sorry for the immodest question)
      1. darksoul
        darksoul 26 March 2018 09: 07
        0
        low-current, including fire, warning, fire extinguishing subsystems
        1. Victor_B
          Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 10
          0
          So you know how such acts are signed.
          At least many of them.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 26 March 2018 08: 56
      +7
      Greed, greed, greed, criminal negligence and serious cover from above!
      I remembered Soviet cinemas, theaters, palaces and other crowded places! Exit from the hall ALWAYS OUTSIDE !!! Fire safety rules during design and construction have always been respected!
      And now business and nothing personal ???
    3. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 26 March 2018 14: 45
      +1
      There they wrote in the Republic of Tajikistan that in the shopping center the ceiling was leaking, they were repairing, maybe they damaged, maybe they turned it off ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 26 March 2018 15: 25
        +1
        There violations \ crimes like fleas on a yard dog!
        Itself was at war with contractors when they tried to put cables and wires in combustible insulation! In the estimate everything was PAID in a special one. fireproof performance ... you’re one and a half times more expensive, economists dol ....!
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 26 March 2018 18: 38
          +1
          According to the regulations there are lists of permitted non-combustible materials, others are violation. In the fire safety department of the metro (now the service is already) when the question about cheap, combustible materials when building a new building went right away the designers sent it saying: I don’t want to go to jail and do not care what your price does not fit, but there are probably those who need envelopes more important rely on chance ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 26 March 2018 22: 53
            0
            Thirty pieces of silver, a donkey with a bag of gold, now chubby envelopes with babosiks, then another plastic with open accounts !!! The world is changing, the ways to turn off conscience are the same!
            But people pay, CHILDREN with their lives for this! On the count of all those to blame, and then probably there will be little!
            1. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 27 March 2018 14: 48
              0
              There is still sloppiness, in the same place the engineer signed it without looking and then the deputy head of the service with his face on the table said: you want to sit for 20 years, please, but I won’t sign it.
  27. konstantin68
    konstantin68 26 March 2018 08: 48
    +7
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: Sergey985
    All these malls save on fire safety, a purely formal approach.

    So it's time to introduce confiscation, or rather material liability, for the dead and put fire inspectors. So let them sit and pay compensation to the relatives of the victims and victims of such fires. It is clear that these shopping centers cannot pass a fire inspection without a bribe.

    Nonsense. There is a complex problem. It begins at the construction stage. You go through the nearby shopping center and measure the width of the stairs (not central, all the rest), I generally am silent about building materials, they should not burn! We go further. Everyone paid attention to how all these shopping centers were “twisted”, there were a lot of spiral staircases (saving space), they were very “cool”, again saving. A lot of all kinds of dead-end “appendixes” leading nowhere. Often, the administration of a shopping center, renting out space, turns a blind eye to the restructuring and partial blocking of premises and emergency exits. The protection in these shopping centers is continuous Warnak (again saving). As a result, you can get lost in them even just walking during the day or in bright light. And of course, valiant regulatory authorities. A fire inspector from IPshnik and his shop, in which 5-10 visitors by force, and is standing separately, will lower three skins. But in the shopping center, it closes eyes for blocking. output and malfunction alarm. This is so, offhand I have listed, what is visible to any normal person. I am sure if the specialists would have checked, there it was necessary to close this shopping center at 24 hours.
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 01
      +2
      Yes, they are all specialists, these inspectors!
      They see everything, but they (well, suppose!) Don’t extort this money, and they just shove it.
      On the other hand, these rules are quite difficult to fully implement.
      A private trader, he will strangle a penny! And there is not a penny.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 26 March 2018 10: 53
        +1
        Some people really make money, but when designing the reconstruction / reconstruction of the building, was everything observed? The big question and the category of control is different.
        We will wait for the results, see which heads fly and then we will wait for the journalistic investigation. Should someone get to the bottom, who covered up this CRIME ???
  28. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 26 March 2018 08: 54
    0
    Along with the detention of the owner of the "Winter Cherry", it is necessary to detain the inspectors of the Ministry of Emergencies in charge of this institution as well as representatives of the UKS.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 26 March 2018 09: 11
    +1
    Resignations of the heads of services will be?
  31. Victor_B
    Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 12
    +3
    And here is the spammer!
    Well, she cannot sleep directly, so as not to share joy with people - how to earn money without doing anything.
    Caring such!
  32. bogart047
    bogart047 26 March 2018 09: 13
    0
    everyone writes how hard it is, children ... Someone will explain why I, an adult, am not worthy of living at the same level as a child? Adults aren't people? What then to speak about pensioners ...
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 17
      +5
      It’s just that you probably don’t have your children yet.
      Not in reproach, but simply in fact ...
      Involuntarily, his child is substituted in their place and already frost is hard!
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 26 March 2018 11: 07
        +1
        Quote: Victor_B
        Involuntarily, his child is substituted in their place and already frost is hard!

        God forbid this!
    2. K-50
      K-50 26 March 2018 09: 19
      +3
      Quote: bogart047
      everyone writes how hard it is, children ... Someone will explain why I, an adult, am not worthy of living at the same level as a child? Adults aren't people? What then to speak about pensioners ...

      Mauger because adults, unlike children, have a certain life experience, skills, and finally, consideration. Children are deprived of all this, and now even not everyone can get it. sad hi
      1. Victor_B
        Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 23
        +2
        The corpse of an adult, with all the sympathy (sincere) for an innocent victim of circumstances, causes less emotion than the body of a child next to him.
        Absolutely normal human feelings.
        1. bogart047
          bogart047 26 March 2018 11: 57
          0
          it’s absolutely normal to sympathize with everyone equally. Or are all equal, but some are more equal? Or maybe the black child has less sympathy than the white? Yellow? The child is 10 years old and 3 years old?
          Please announce all the criteria for sympathy ...
  33. Glory1974
    Glory1974 26 March 2018 09: 15
    +4
    I have relatives in Kemerovo, they say more than 170 dead. The authorities give out information a little bit so that people are not in shock
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 26 March 2018 09: 19
      0
      Maybe so, but rather not.
      The OBS agency is always inclined to exaggerate.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 26 March 2018 11: 08
        +6
        Quote: Victor_B
        The OBS agency is always inclined to exaggerate.

        and the drawer is silent. Have you seen a lot about Volokalamsk?
    2. Giants
      Giants 27 March 2018 00: 06
      0
      Is it true that Tuleyev did not even come to the scene of the tragedy, did not meet with relatives? For a good reason: Schaub his motorcade did not interfere with the work of rescuers? Schaub CORTEAGE DOESN'T BREAK! After all, WITHOUT CORTEGE in the bastard to go out to people! It's true?
  34. K-50
    K-50 26 March 2018 09: 17
    0
    Emergency exits were closed. many choked from carbon monoxide, which began to appear in huge volumes as a result of burning plastic structures and interior decoration of the shopping center.

    The tragedy of Lame Horse did not teach anything to the owners or the supervisory authorities. sad
    Regrettably. sad
    The severity of laws in Russia is leveled by the non-binding nature of their implementation. (with) sad
  35. AleksPol
    AleksPol 26 March 2018 09: 19
    0
    Condolences to family and friends.
    But which one ... t placed the child’s room and other entertainments on the top floor. There’s not much to kill.
  36. Cheldon
    Cheldon 26 March 2018 09: 22
    +4
    How long, one wonders, how long will this happen? I look at my three mushrooms and it becomes bad that the parents of those kids are worried that the SEC disappeared. As Zheglov said: If there is a devil on earth, then he is not a goat-legged stag, but a three-headed dragon, and his head is cowardice, greed and betrayal. If one bites a person, then the rest will eat him down.
    1. Svarog51
      Svarog51 26 March 2018 12: 53
      +1
      Alexey hi With your permission, I’ll add - it will be more obvious. I specially cut this passage, but since I can’t spread it on YouTube, I placed it in My World. Thank you for copying it and sharing it.
  37. NordOst16
    NordOst16 26 March 2018 09: 23
    +5
    Well, what else to say, the inspecting authorities are unlikely to suffer (or find a cleaner). The owner of the shopping center will be the main scapegoat, it is true, but only he is a small screw in this entire system. A new shopping center will be built on the site of this and everything will continue until a new fire. Perhaps now they will tighten the nuts for a while, but, I think, no more.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 March 2018 09: 57
      +4
      Quote: NordOst16
      Well what else to say

      Picked up the right picture, so that the Laiks would dial yes? Here you have a vidos with modern technology, which arrived first. But you also need to upload the right photo to create the right opinion. Question, you can be called a normal person ??????????????
      33 pieces of equipment worked, but you chose one. Even a fallen angel could not fall so low
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 26 March 2018 11: 24
        +1
        You, apparently, were with Lucifer in the homies?)))
        Ali watched it fall? Or is it an allusion to the collapse of the Soviets?
        Although yes, the author overdid it in the picture, but the thing is different, the car is already old in itself and it would be time to replace Soviet equipment with modern ones, buy new cars (by the way, but here (in the Russian Federation, I mean) fire trucks produce?) .

      2. Victor-M
        Victor-M 26 March 2018 23: 32
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: NordOst16
        Well what else to say

        Picked up the right picture, so that the Laiks would dial yes? Here you have a vidos with modern technology, which arrived first. But you also need to upload the right photo to create the right opinion. Question, you can be called a normal person ??????????????
        33 pieces of equipment worked, but you chose one. Even a fallen angel could not fall so low


        Torn off the tongue!
        These sorrows human grief is an occasion for their own PR.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 26 March 2018 10: 37
      0
      And why is this ZIL bad?
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 26 March 2018 11: 27
        0
        Yes, he himself is not bad, but he saw quite a few cars that drive, and under them the rivers flow)))
    3. 787nkx
      787nkx 26 March 2018 11: 48
      0
      Why didn’t ZIL please you?
      Great car.
      In terms of fire functionality, it is no different from modern ones.
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 26 March 2018 11: 59
        0
        The main thing is not the machine, but the equipment installed on the machine. And I doubt that modern equipment will be put on the old platform, and if there is shovel equipment, then we can already doubt its effectiveness because how much time has passed. Well, I could be wrong
        1. himRa
          himRa 26 March 2018 13: 27
          +2
          Quote: NordOst16
          if there is shovel equipment, then you can already doubt its effectiveness because how much time has passed.

          Do not drive to the scoop! There are machines and equipment from the beginning of the last century that are in operation ... for example in New York!
          It's not about the equipment! Any means of passive safety such as stairs, elevators will not stand the moment, the outcome of such a quantity in a panic of people!
          Scoop is not an indicator of antiquity and not effectiveness! On the contrary, a sign of quality! Remember the little one!
          Well, I could be wrong

          And here you are right! You can
          1. NordOst16
            NordOst16 26 March 2018 13: 39
            0
            But do not exalt the technique of the scoop. It was a lie to say that all the equipment of the USSR was the best in the world, but the same ignorance is the statement that everything was bad in the scoop (they bought processing machines for the screws of submarines over the hill).
            But 27 years have passed since the collapse, and during this time not much has changed and time is doing its job.
            And there it was not that the bandwidth was low, but that the doors were closed.
  38. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 26 March 2018 09: 37
    0
    Does every house have fire extinguishers? Do your loved ones know how to use them? What about smoke masks? Have you thought of ways to evacuate from the apartment in case of fire?
    1. Nechaev
      Nechaev 26 March 2018 09: 41
      0
      Quote: vladimirvn
      Does every house have fire extinguishers? Do your loved ones know how to use them? What about smoke masks? Have you thought of ways to evacuate from the apartment in case of fire?

      Do you compare a huge shopping center with a personal apartment? This is not an indicator of the mind.
      1. vladimirvn
        vladimirvn 26 March 2018 09: 44
        0
        I do not compare the shopping center with the apartment. And I'm just saying that everyone needs to have this at home. I have one.
  39. Palagecha
    Palagecha 26 March 2018 09: 45
    +1
    I read and thought ... how careless I am ... Someone can correctly write how to properly build a shelter for a family of three people and a cat from a nuclear strike and cruise missiles with autonomy up to a year? And what should be in it? What stocks?
  40. prior
    prior 26 March 2018 09: 53
    +1
    All fire safety in today's Russia is focused on putting out fires.
    Therefore, no matter how cynical, we will burn and burn. No prophylaxis. Monetization did its dirty deed, the loot won. Once again they will pay off by paying the families of the deceased and everything will remain the same.
  41. Dashout
    Dashout 26 March 2018 10: 00
    +2
    1. Why didn't firefighters check? What does the protection of small business have to do with it? Forget the phrase about the ban "cashmere business"! What mercantile entrepreneurs are hucksters! Remove these restrictions and check everyone until the next "entrepreneur" does not poison half the city!
    2. Prohibit the use of combustible finishing materials !!! What few victims? Few tragedies like the Lame Horse? Buildings in Chechnya? Prohibit the use of imported combustible finishing materials at the legislative level!
    3. Great sorrow ..... my most sincere condolences ... sorrow ....
  42. Kachesgm
    Kachesgm 26 March 2018 10: 02
    +4
    In Kemerovo they shot at night with a quadric as they carried out the corpses. One cinema fully with children. The whole class died, the teacher and accompanying people left and the children were closed (left for the session).
    When only about 4 people were talking, Putin already sent the head of the Ministry of Emergencies there. This already suggests that a lot of victims. Most likely more than 100 people, but they will quietly voice all this so as not to frighten the people.
  43. asiat_61
    asiat_61 26 March 2018 10: 05
    +3
    Go into any modern stall, all the finish is plastic. Remember the Soviet department stores? There is concrete on the floor. the walls are plastered, the ceiling is concrete. There’s nothing to burn. And all these modern fast-speeds are lightweight constructions and insulation.
  44. Suharik.inline
    Suharik.inline 26 March 2018 10: 05
    0
    Quote: Vard
    In addition to jokes with my wife, I conduct teachings once a year ... evacuation from crowded places ... was in childhood ... scared for life ...

    Respect and respect for such events with the family.
    I myself train my daughter in emergency situations periodically, about the fire in the shopping center you will need to discuss the same and go through the favorite shopping center.
    What can I say to the filed state of emergency, I think that they simply gave money to the firemen, they turned a blind eye to the little things and the little things can be expensive.
    My deepest condolences to the relatives of the dead and injured.
  45. Samara_63
    Samara_63 26 March 2018 10: 30
    0
    We have banned business checks, even planned! Here is the result!
  46. Now we are free
    Now we are free 26 March 2018 10: 50
    0
    The deepest condolences to the relatives of the victims. Unfortunately, for the most part, those who are least prepared for such children suffer ... Look at the tragedy in Volokolamsk and now in Kemerovo. Alas, this is not the last such tragedy (pah-pah-pah), that it was a terrorist attack, a drink ... oh, or a coincidence, it remains to be understood, BUT the tendency when such emergencies go one after another leads to very bad thoughts. Too many accidents ... In this case: Unaccompanied children, the fire alarm did not work, fire exits are closed, movie theaters are on the 4th floor and not on the first or second ... I don’t want to build versions all the more now, I just want to say MUSICS TAKE CARE OF YOUR CLOSE AND ESPECIALLY FOLLOW CHILDREN! Once again, the deepest condolences to all the relatives and especially the parents of the victims.
  47. Spike Javelin Touvich
    Spike Javelin Touvich 26 March 2018 11: 06
    0
    The earth rest in peace, congeners and relatives of condolences and patience.
    Terrible tragedy
    How to help the victims?
    1. himRa
      himRa 26 March 2018 13: 36
      +2
      Quote: Spike Javelin Touvich
      How to help the victims?

      1-money to the account
      2-blood to those who have suffered, if necessary
      3 things you don't need
      4-follow the topic, maybe something else will be needed
      5, etc.
  48. Vard
    Vard 26 March 2018 11: 33
    +2
    When I go into a public place, the first thing I decide is how to get out of it ... In large stores, these are service exits ... unlike firefighters, they are always open and people don’t immediately go there ... My wife holds me behind my clothes. .. And one more thing ... be prepared for the fact that you have to go out ... on the head ... either you will save yourself and save yours ... or you will die without violating the moral commandments ... and those who will stop you from getting out, still die ...
  49. HMR333
    HMR333 26 March 2018 12: 09
    0
    The problem is that in such rooms there is no automatic fire extinguishing system that could react and extinguish in time at the start of a fire and prevent the spread of fire and carbon monoxide!
  50. ALEXXX1983
    ALEXXX1983 26 March 2018 12: 10
    0
    This is what sometimes leads to the desire to save on security and the purchase of bribes to fire inspectors. I hope the guilty will receive a good time, maybe this will serve as an example to someone how not to do it.
    It is a pity for the victims and relatives of the victims.