Military Review

Military news of Russia: there are hyper-speeds, but is there a hypersound?

194
Three weeks have passed since the announcement of the presidential address to the Federal Assembly. It would seem that there was enough time to move away from the euphoria caused by the presentation of some modern types of Russian weapons, and try without exaltation to analyze what we heard. At least, this is relevant for the expert community, which is simply obliged to preserve the sobriety of thought in any situation.


But sobering is not something is observed. Moreover, one gets the feeling that everything is being done in the media space in order to mythologize as much as possible both the presidential message itself and the samples of weapons that are represented in it.

Meanwhile, the conclusions made by the hasty "experts" are far from always true. And this is especially true of the conclusion that Russian scientists and designers allegedly solved the problem of movement in the atmosphere with hypersonic speed.

Military news of Russia: there are hyper-speeds, but is there a hypersound?


Alas, this is not entirely true. And perhaps not at all. And the joyful cries that we “were ahead of the Americans for decades in the hypersound area” are nothing but vain air shaking.

To more accurately understand the cause of my skepticism, I will give a couple of simple examples of movement with hypersonic speeds, which for many decades have served the military of the whole world. But no one is in a hurry to shout that the key problems of movement with hypersonic speeds are supposedly solved.

First, we are talking about ballistic missiles - both military and civilian versions.

Yes, the speed of ballistic missiles reaches eight, and sometimes up to twelve kilometers per second. This is even more than hypersound, which starts at about two kilometers per second. But such speeds are developing by rockets even at such heights, where the atmosphere is rarefied to almost zero, in the usual sense, values. A rocket in this mode does not experience air resistance, and therefore problems associated with its heating, skin burning, the appearance of a plasma envelope that is almost impenetrable to electromagnetic waves, etc.

Secondly, we could talk about hypersonic speeds, oddly enough, as applied to ordinary tank guns. Caliber shells fly out of these guns at a speed of about 5 Machs - legally, and very simplified, this is already hypersonic. The problem is that this speed is fixed only for a split second, after which it rapidly drops.

Feel free to add here the railguns, which now only the lazy does not develop. They also provide the projectile hypersonic speed, albeit temporarily. And also hypersonic weapons are not ...

Actually, difficulties arise already at the stage of determining what is a hypersound weapon. Or even not necessarily a weapon, but simply a hypersonic aircraft.

Probably, only the definition should be recognized as correct, which assumes that the aircraft moves at a hypersonic speed on its own, that is, with the help of its own propulsion system of any type. And also that it moves in the atmosphere, overcoming air resistance - in the end, the very concept of “sound velocity” implies its distribution in the atmosphere, at a relatively small height. Indeed, in a highly rarefied air environment, its speed may be several times less, and in much more dense water, sound propagates, on the contrary, at a speed of about two kilometers per second.

Now let's move on to the most interesting - consider what the complexes mentioned in the header are.
Launched from the MiG-31 high-altitude supersonic interceptor, the Kinzhal complex is an aeroballistic missile. That is, as the name implies, it is a ballistic missile launched from an airplane. In itself, this is an interesting solution, the implementation of which in itself is a new word in the field aviation weapons. But, unfortunately, this is not enough to talk about hypersound. More precisely, it has nothing to do with hypersound.

The speed of the "Dagger" is fully consistent with any definition of hypersonic weapon. He has his own marching engine. But its flight takes place at such heights, where the atmosphere is only nominally. So, it would not be entirely correct to talk about hypersonic speed in air, as well as about solving problems associated with it.

The type of rocket tells us, by the way, and why the MiG-31 interceptor was chosen as the carrier. Probably, today only this machine can provide the launch of the Dagger at a speed of more than two thousand km / h and an altitude of about 15-18 km. This, in turn, greatly saves the fuel of the rocket, which, due to the resources of the aircraft, is already gaining a greater starting speed and overcomes the most dense layers of the atmosphere. This is the reason for the long range of use of the Dagger, which it was difficult to expect from the relatively small size that it inherited from the ground-based progenitor, Iskander.

As for the Avangard complex, this is not a rocket at all and not an independent aircraft. The definition of a “war block” misleads people far from a military theme. So let's simplify - it's just an intercontinental ballistic missile warhead. Yes, it is innovative, technically very sophisticated, capable of maneuver in the final part of its trajectory. Nevertheless, the speed is reported to her by the launch vehicle, it flies by inertia, it manifests hypersonic properties only when entering the dense layers of the atmosphere and also for a very short time. Whether it has a marching engine is hard to say for sure. But most likely, the engine, if any, is auxiliary, to ensure stability when maneuvering in dense layers of the atmosphere.
And this, unfortunately, is also not a hypersonic weapon.

The only combat system for which there is cautious optimism is the anti-ship Zircon missile.

Why cautious? The fact is that we have long been equipped with supersonic anti-ship missiles, for example, Granit or Vulkan. However, upon closer examination, we see that these rockets are supersonic only in the final segment of flight, when the combat stage leaves the spent march, decreases and goes to supersonic speeds to overcome the ship's air defense.

This scheme is used to increase the range of combat use of missiles, to be able to attack the enemy without entering the carrier in the zone of action of the enemy’s ship’s weapons.

But it is possible that it is used on the "Zircon". And in this case, taking into account the secrecy of this rocket, we can only assume how many kilometers Zircon overcomes at hypersonic speed, how many minutes or seconds the hypersonic flight itself lasts, and whether it can be considered a real hypersonic weapon, or speech, after all It is about the traditional ingenuity of our engineers and designers.

In conclusion, you probably need to put some accents.

Of course, I would not want to detract from the achievements of our designers. Both Dagger and Avangard are outstanding developments, especially if the main criterion is not the academic purity of hypersonic solutions, but the potential combat effectiveness of these complexes. In the end, the affected target doesn’t care if the term “hypersound” is precisely applied to what has spread it into molecules.

But we probably still need to be more correct in the definitions, because excessive euphoria, especially in the military field, often leads to unnecessary captric attitudes. But we, frankly, do not advance anyone for decades.

And given the fact that we are confronted at least by the entire “golden billion”, we may not have enough caps for everyone.
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194 comments
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  1. Andrey NM
    Andrey NM 23 March 2018 04: 46
    +40
    Call it what you want — hyper, super super, etc. sound. This is not important in this case. It is important that these weapons systems effectively fulfill their assigned tasks.
    1. major071
      major071 23 March 2018 06: 38
      +54


      That's all I can say hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Safevi
          Safevi 23 March 2018 09: 52
          +22
          And what exactly is the author wrong? In addition to “this cannot be, because this can never be” and the author’s accusations of “all-propalism” I did not see any technically sound objection. Plus to the author!
          1. vlad66
            vlad66 23 March 2018 10: 27
            +26
            Quote: sefevi
            In addition to “this cannot be, because this can never be” and the author’s accusations of “all-propalism” I did not see any technically sound objection

            So buy glasses
            we can only speculate

            But most likely, the engine, if any, is auxiliary, for

            The type of rocket tells us

            Probably should be recognized as correct

            Still throw military laughing together with this super-analyst
            Viktor Kuzovkov

            A wonderful couple will come out of you good only for such an analyte at any headquarters of the military unit of any army of the world the muzzle will not be cleaned up.
            unnecessary capricious moods.

            And so yes, our tanks crumble on the go and the ships sink and planes in cartoons only laughing , you can check, just do not advise the planet Earth may not be.
            1. Ehanatone
              Ehanatone 23 March 2018 11: 19
              +8
              Vlad 66
              You should also check the strategic stock of Hats ...
              1. vlad66
                vlad66 23 March 2018 11: 21
                +7
                Quote: Ehanatone
                Vlad 66
                You should also check the strategic stock of Hats ...

                I will definitely use your wise advice. hi
            2. Barmal
              Barmal 23 March 2018 11: 20
              +13
              And so yes, our tanks crumble on the go and the ships sink and planes in cartoons only

              Forgot about the "Mosfilm" Crimean bridge to mention. The same topic - we can’t do anything, everything is just for PR.
              1. Anti-Corr.
                Anti-Corr. 23 March 2018 11: 52
                +4
                Quote: Barmal
                Forgot about the "Mosfilm" Crimean bridge to mention. The same topic - we can’t do anything, everything is just for PR.

                There was already talk about the bridge and your humor is not appropriate here, provided the final cost of this bridge, for which you could buy half of Ukraine. But for some reason the super-project was cheated.
                1. Barmal
                  Barmal 23 March 2018 13: 34
                  +6
                  time will tell. Humor is not with me. I didn’t think of a Mosfilm about building a bridge. nor about the purchase of Ukraine.
                2. AID.S
                  AID.S 23 March 2018 18: 14
                  +3
                  Quote: Anti-Corr.
                  There was already talk about the bridge and your humor is not appropriate here, provided the final cost of this bridge,

                  Like okay, not Mosfilm, but corruption and corruption again! You can count corruption at the bakery. Previously, rye cost 16 kopecks. , now from 30 rubles. , the cost increased steeper than the Crimean bridge. There is only one difference: ready-made Crimean bridges are not sold in stores and there is nothing to compare with. It would be better if they referred to Vostochny Cosmodrome, there was proven theft.
                  1. Anti-Corr.
                    Anti-Corr. 23 March 2018 18: 20
                    +2
                    Quote: AID.S
                    Previously, rye cost 16 kopecks. ,

                    In my memory was 18 kopecks. what
                    Quote: AID.S
                    It would be better if they referred to Vostochny Cosmodrome, there was proven theft.

                    I do not think that this is fundamental, theft everywhere, as an example, the stadium in St. Petersburg.
                    1. AID.S
                      AID.S 23 March 2018 19: 42
                      +6
                      Quote: Anti-Corr.
                      I do not think that this is fundamental, theft everywhere, as an example, the stadium in St. Petersburg.

                      The bridge, unlike the stadium and the spaceport,
                      hardly has a corruption component.
                      Crimean bridge breaks records
                      The German portal Stern said that the opening of the Crimean bridge planned for May will be a record for the speed of construction. It took “some four years” to design, plan and erect the construction of Russia, the author of the note is surprised. In addition, the journalist compared the speed of construction of the Crimean bridge with the speed of building two "prestigious" infrastructure projects of the era of German Chancellor Angela Merkel - Berlin-Brandenburg Airport and Stuttgart 21 Station.
                      “1-0 in favor of Putin,” he said.
            3. Orionvit
              Orionvit 23 March 2018 12: 59
              +4
              Quote: vlad66
              In one you can agree with this miracle

              Why, you can still agree with his conclusion
              about the traditional savvy of our engineers and designers.
              Here I hope no one will argue.
              1. vlad66
                vlad66 24 March 2018 00: 06
                +5
                Quote: Orionvit
                Here I hope no one will argue

                Even no thought to argue Colleague! hi
            4. massad1
              massad1 23 March 2018 13: 38
              +11
              I agree with you, the article was written in the current British high-style “high-likley” style, I don’t understand how much water can be poured, discussing secret developments, according to which only the name and purpose of the product from the information can be speculated. There shouldn’t be any hatred, of course, but the keynote of the article is that I really didn’t like all these cartoons
              1. Semen1972
                Semen1972 23 March 2018 14: 33
                +2
                Quote: massad1
                There shouldn’t be any hatred, of course, but the keynote of the article is that I really didn’t like all these cartoons

                I can like a girl. And here we need arguments. What do you have?
                1. massad1
                  massad1 23 March 2018 14: 38
                  +12
                  one argument, TTX is classified, how can you analyze something without having any input other than the word "hypersound"? These fabrications are like going camping around a pillar overnight
              2. NEXUS
                NEXUS 23 March 2018 15: 26
                +13
                Quote: massad1
                There shouldn’t be any hatred, of course, but the keynote of the article is that I really didn’t like all these cartoons

                The author argues for a long time that the Dagger is not a hypersonic missile and argues ... but ...
                What does the author know about Vanguard and Dagger in the case? Nothing. From the word at all. The operation by physical laws is certainly good and appropriate, but I want to ask the author a question, are you sure that these physical principles are applied in these cases?
                And the last one. I do not pretend to the last resort, but as I have said before, bluffs are easily disclosed. It makes no sense to Putin to splurge. And therefore, I am convinced that everything he said is pure truth. And it was not a matter of faith in Putin, but of the fact that he had never been noticed in such a stupid bluff and lies to the whole world. At the same time, one must understand that he talked about the country's security and its nuclear shield.
              3. Flyer_64
                Flyer_64 24 March 2018 17: 24
                +1
                Quote: massad1
                I agree with you, the article was written in the British fashionable high-likly style, I don’t understand how much water can be poured, discussing secret developments

                Simply, it’s very fashionable to judge everything.
            5. Vittt
              Vittt 23 March 2018 18: 48
              +2
              There is one more "avt" that tries to make out words, but cannot make out sentences. Do you have a nursery there?
              The comment "Vlad66" recalls the characteristic opus of Mr. "avt", so I assume that this is the same person under the sign "topwar":
          2. meandr51
            meandr51 23 March 2018 10: 56
            +17
            In all rights. From a purely formal own point of view, abstracting from reality. The purpose of the statement is to get rid of a certain "euphoria". And why, in fact? The euphoria launched by the president is essentially a weapon that can prevent a real war by frightening the enemy and raising the spirit of its people. And this is at a time when the West is rising to new levels in the escalation of the psychological war against Russia, completely not caring about the plausibility of its arguments. The main thing is to crush morally! This is half the military victory. And why should Russia abandon such tactics if it is effective? Moreover, our arguments are much closer to the truth. In short: do not like it - do not listen, but do not bother lying! Do not pour water on the enemy’s mill! Academician found ... Fight for the purity of science at closed conferences. There are laws in the media space!
            1. Semen1972
              Semen1972 23 March 2018 14: 37
              0
              Quote: meandr51
              which can prevent a real war by intimidating the enemy and raising the spirit of their people.

              What does "can" mean ??? The message has already taken place. Did it prevent war and scare opponents or not? If so ... then it turns out that before that we could not answer the states ... and it was a big fake that we could answer at any moment ... WE could NOTHING .. Now the frightened states will start either an arms race, at least somehow try (unsuccessfully) to catch up with us, they will tear on this, as the USSR will fall apart ... or they will recognize Russia as the most powerful military country in the world, close their bases as unnecessary and will quietly decay on their continent .. We are waiting for what their scenarios are realized in the coming months ... symptoms should already appear just about ..
          3. GUKTU76
            GUKTU76 23 March 2018 11: 17
            +13
            Not right in principle. A hypersonic weapon is a weapon having a speed exceeding the speed of sound in the atmosphere by more than 5 times.
            You can borrow a definition from the Americans: "Advanced Hypersonic Weapon (abbreviation AHW, literally" promising hypersonic weapon ", in some sources" advanced ") - a hypersonic aircraft designed to fly in the atmosphere at hypersonic speed."
            And here’s how the concept of atmosphere is defined: “According to the definition proposed by the International Aviation Federation, the border of the atmosphere and space is drawn along the Karmana line, located at an altitude of 100 km [3], above which air flights become completely impossible. NASA uses the mark as the border of the atmosphere 122 kilometers (400 feet), where the shuttles switched from maneuvering with engines to aerodynamic maneuvering [000]. " There is no difference in purpose or how I understood the principle of application between our existing and the American under development.
            You can, of course, assign the definition of "truly" hypersonic weapons yourself and claim that the conditions of your definition with these weapons are not fulfilled. But this is ordinary pride.
            In general, as already noted, hypersound is not necessary in itself, but as a means of overcoming the enemy’s air defense and missile defense. The necessary speed, time and range of hypersonic flight will depend solely on the characteristics of the defense. Our president declared that the existing defense of the "partners" is guaranteed to be overcome with new weapons.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 23 March 2018 16: 29
              +6
              Quote: GUKTU76
              In general, as already noted, hypersound is not necessary in itself, but as a means of overcoming the enemy’s air defense and missile defense

              It’s true ... but there are some pitfalls here ... hypersound reduces the time it takes to make a decision about a retaliatory strike and at the same time reduces the time of the retaliation itself.
          4. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 23 March 2018 20: 35
            +3
            Well then, give the differences between hypersound and hyperspeed, their magnitudes and differences, and then argue.
            And .... does Azerbaijan have a military industrial complex? Well, at least the 20th part of the Russian? When you count, you do not need to cry. Good luck!
          5. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 24 March 2018 04: 28
            +4
            Quote: sefevi
            And what exactly is the author wrong?

            So what is he right about? The author mixed up a muddy balance on the grounds that he was "so-and-so" and began to narrate that he dreamed of not calling Putin's novelties hypersonic weapons! But the point is that there is a long-established “terminology and concepts!” Nobody is trying to impose on everyone the name of "wet stoops" instead of galoshes! And the author is trying! Moreover, he expresses garbage with a “smart” look! According to the author’s predilection, only a hypersonic plane (which has “steady motion in the atmosphere not lower than a certain speed”) can be called hypersonic. And all that reaches hypersound for “a split second” or for seconds, is not, in the opinion of the author, hypersonic! And the fact that all artillery shells. Nouns, guided missiles, in the end. they “plop” onto the ground or into the water (if, of course, the self-liquidator did not work or is absent), the author already “doesn’t”! And in supersonic missiles, speed, in the end, decreases to zero after engine development, but from that they do not cease to be “listed” in supersonic ... If a weapon performs a combat mission at hypersonic speed, then it “has the right” to be called hypersonic, although this speed exists only part of the flight time!
            For example, the SKEM American hypersonic PT missile has a maximum range of -8 km, and the tank strikes at a range of 3,4 km, where it has a "speed" of 6 M!
            Or ... is it possible to name the TOW hypersonic experimental PT missile, which is equipped with the 2-mode special liquid-propellant rocket engine on gel-like (quasi-liquid) fuel? In the "nominal" mode, the rocket develops transonic or supersonic speed (slightly exceeding the Mach number ...) at a distance of 4 km ... But at a distance of 500 m from the target (tank), the special liquid-propellant rocket engine switches to the "forced" mode and speed "in fractions of a second "reaches hypersonic .... How to" call "this rocket? Isn't she hypersonic?
            Modern hypersonic missiles can be "divided" into 2 types: 1.type I ... when the ammunition leaves the "barrel" at a speed above 5-6 M and hits the target at a combat range that is much less than the maximum and at which the speed of st. 5 M ...; 2.Type II ... when the ammunition on a large part of the trajectory has transonic or supersonic speed, but near the target it “switches” to hypersound ...
            there may be a missile that hits the target (object) at supersonic or near-sonic speed; but breaks through to the target through the hypersonic anti-aircraft defense zone. Why can’t the railgun be considered a “hypersonic” weapon? Let the maximum flight range of the railgun projectile-1000 km (when it is “plop”) ... the combat mission of a ghana is to shoot down a target at a distance of 200 km (no more). The projectile leaves the “barrel” of the gun at a speed of 8-10-12 M ... at a distance of 200 km the projectile speed is stored in 5,5-6 M ... Why, in the author’s opinion, can not be called hypersonic? If the railgun "bullets" with hypersonic shells, the railgun is all the same. Is it not a "hypersonic weapon"? .
          6. MKPU-115
            MKPU-115 27 March 2018 21: 17
            0
            Quote: sefevi
            Whether she has a marching engine, it's hard to say for sure.

            the author is wondering at the coffee grounds, without really knowing anything, and claims to be X-pert’s laurels, but he himself is not sure whether she has an engine or not ...
      2. Buffet
        Buffet 24 March 2018 00: 02
        +3
        Why not hypersound? But because that's all. I’m here a sofa marshal and I determine that hypersound and what is not, is it clear to everyone?
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 24 March 2018 04: 33
          +2
          Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
          I’m here a sofa marshal and I determine that hypersound and what is not, is it clear to everyone?

          Exactly ! The author declares that “the right has” to determine what may be “called hypersound”; and what not!
    2. vlad66
      vlad66 23 March 2018 09: 35
      +17
      And given the fact that at least the entire “golden billion

      Katz offers to surrender? belay
      Author: Viktor Kuzovkov
      1. NN52
        NN52 23 March 2018 10: 52
        +17
        And why is the article of this expert in the Analytics section?
        If there was an article in the Opinions section, I would have understood .... And so the water on jelly ....
        Real TTX we will not know soon .....
    3. Cormorants
      Cormorants 23 March 2018 10: 42
      +4
      And most importantly, some of them are already in parts)))
    4. Oml
      Oml 23 March 2018 12: 33
      +4
      Perhaps the fabulist tags have a lot more information than the Commander-in-Chief.
    5. SETTGF
      SETTGF 23 March 2018 13: 37
      +4
      The author of the article is so wrong that his article does not stand up to criticism! The “Dagger” rocket and the “Vanguard” hypersonic blocks fly at a hypersonic speed for a long part of their journey to hit the target with speeds of 10M and 20M, respectively, and their speed does not fall due to the acceleration of gravity of 9,8 m / s2 in this flight section - the most important thing - they are managed, which designers of other countries have not achieved !!! And you don’t have to worry about using a ramjet engine - they will soon invent and not only ... ABM of the USA and other countries - cannot intercept the Dagger rocket and the Avangard hypersonic units at this time. The author of the article does not need to be like grief - analysts!
      1. 73petia
        73petia 24 March 2018 00: 53
        +2
        Quote: SETTGF
        The author of the article does not need to be like grief - analysts!


        This is not an analysis. This is a terminological argument. In the end, what did they create, weapons with the ultimate goal of striking something (in the sense of destroying)? Or a device with the ultimate goal of meeting all the definitions of the term "hypersound" and "hyperspeed"?
        ... "Do you have checkers or go?" ...
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 23 March 2018 04: 50
    +32
    I read the article and lost heart ... smile we are gone ... we are finished ... there are many of them a whole billion ... there are not so many hats in Russia ... not enough for everyone.
    And I’m still thinking about how our dense ancestors managed to defeat Napoleon and Hitler, who gathered representatives of this golden billion under their banners. what
    But we, to be honest, are not ahead of anyone for decades.

    Well, it’s not going into any gates at all.
    Tell me the countries in the world who are capable of creating the very same Daggers in the near future ... Sarmatians ... Vanguards, etc.
    Surely the GDP has more surprises for the Golden Billion from Russia's military arsenals about which we do not know and about which the West has no idea.
    I’ll say this to the author ... I’m calm for the military sphere in Russia ... our armed forces are able to destroy this golden Billion and the only problem for Russia now is not just what you have listed, but the country's internal economy ... this is the Achilles heel and her you need to do it without delay.
    The Anglo-Saxons are preparing a large-scale operation to legally rob all of Russia's assets abroad ... Skripal’s business, so to speak, is the first stage of this scam.
    1. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx 23 March 2018 05: 43
      +11
      Yes, the conclusion from the article is this (exaggerating of course):
      I don’t know how the engineers did everything there, I don’t have exact data, but I I doubt very muchthat hypersound (and indeed hypersound, in my opinion should be at an altitude of 1 km, then then).
      as an example:
      Probably today only this machine can ensure the launch of the “Dagger” at a speed of more than two thousand km / h and an altitude of about 15-18 km.

      probably Carl. those. the author has no data (who will tell him)), but build on this "probably" conclusions are sacred.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 23 March 2018 05: 49
        +14
        probably Carl. those. author has no data
        wink
        Something these words remind me of ... what
        With a high degree of probability Russia is to blame for everything ... Teresa May.
        1. vik669
          vik669 23 March 2018 09: 38
          0
          You always offended me, I hope that maybe in the future they won’t - Russian fools are the best in the world, and experts are ahead of the rest!
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 23 March 2018 10: 42
        +3
        Well, are you building conclusions on the basis of cartoons and the words of a person who does not answer for them and finally doesn’t know what is happening next to him? Or were you at the telemetry post during trials of the same daggers, avant-gardes and other things? belay
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 23 March 2018 11: 13
          +7
          This man has already shown that in the military field his words do not diverge: Chechnya, Syria, rearmament and increasing the combat effectiveness of the army. There are no other such "people" in the world.
          And for the cartoons that you like - in Hollywood.
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 23 March 2018 11: 17
            +1
            Do you know why it is not observed? This man artificially lowered the horizon, let go of the fog .... Why shout that you feel good, these are complexes. Money, as you know, love silence.
            1. Korax71
              Korax71 23 March 2018 12: 51
              -1
              There must be some truth in your words hi
          2. Korax71
            Korax71 23 March 2018 12: 49
            -1
            How many times did the deadlines for T14, Pak fa, fleet move? I don’t even want to talk about social and other programs. Just for the sake of interest, make a list of unfulfilled promises. I will tell you a terrible secret, and new units were created and armed. Simply with such a pomp it was not presented. He didn’t live so far from the training ground at that time, and you know how the combat training went on all the time. request about what he showed in Syria and Chechnya, I don’t know. what the Russian guys showed there, I saw them, I didn’t doubt them. But I also saw how they were broadcasting from high stands that they would not give Syria an insult. And the Turks probably didn’t warn about it. that we are afraid and respected, and the merikosas haven’t changed more than one diaper after the cartoons, only in our country they’ve never talked about government media. Or they have some kind of their own English wassat
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 23 March 2018 20: 49
              +4
              With EBN - aren't you funny? Yes, compare (there are plenty of videos on the Internet) at least ELITE - FSB special forces, equipment. And do not write more nonsense, strategist couch.
              1. AID.S
                AID.S 23 March 2018 23: 25
                +3
                Quote: Okolotochny
                At EBN

                When ebn once caught a fly-taxer, in uniform !!!! "And what to do there, in the service!".
        2. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 23 March 2018 12: 00
          +4
          Quote: Korax71
          Well, are you building conclusions on the basis of cartoons and the words of a person who does not answer for them and finally doesn’t know what is happening next to him? Or were you at the telemetry post during trials of the same daggers, avant-gardes and other things?

          I’m wondering, you, all critics put together, say they say "cartoons." What did you want to see interesting? complete telemetry data including secret? or video from a camera mounted on an apparel? or maybe all together + all this should be applied with a blow to targets immediately with a nuclear charge?
          I am sure that in this case there will be comments that everything is fake.
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 23 March 2018 13: 13
            -1
            That's not the point. Yes, that's fine, it just changed belay so even Matis-vrazhina said the same thing, the alignment of forces will not change. We are somehow strange, we are proud of the fact that it brings death and devastation, but that we don’t hear pride in the best medicine, education, gasification of villages, an extreme case .40 minutes to hang up about weapons and 3-4 minutes about education and health care - that’s your priorities. Well, and over 16 years so much has been said about the breakthroughs that the next statement on the transfer of trust no longer inspires. And everyone believes that wants hi , but adult uncles believe in fairy tales is strictly contraindicated.
            1. Cxnumx
              Cxnumx 23 March 2018 16: 39
              +3
              Quote: Korax71
              40 minutes to hang about weapons and 3-4 minutes about education and healthcare, these are your priorities.

              it was the most important part of the message, because neither medicine, nor education, nor well-being would stop the enemy from starting a war. but if they tell him and show that in case of an attack he will be destroyed wherever he is, this stops him. the feeling that you can be killed in response to your actions generally cleans your brain well.
              and personally, I’m sure that there will be no war, the country will develop, not by leaps and bounds, but it will. so that we don’t need it, we need a weapon that will make the war with us deadly for all comers.
    2. Mih1974
      Mih1974 23 March 2018 07: 30
      +4
      And let’s frankly - scary (more efficient) interceptor than the Mig-31 is still not !!! good bully All kinds of duper fast sounds, this is good, but back in the USSR they understood how they got into a mess when they threw all their strength only at rockets under Khrushchev and cut Artillery almost to zero fool . So a rocket is a rocket, but bring it first. And in general, while our Strategic Rocket Forces break through their ABMs with guarantee, all these “pronounced” polymers are for knocking out dough or forcing and offers to give up.
    3. Ehanatone
      Ehanatone 23 March 2018 11: 23
      -1
      Same Lech
      And when you leave Napoleon alone!
      After all, in the end, he was engaged in the same thing that we are now fighting with England, i.e. ultimately survival ...
      1. Orionvit
        Orionvit 23 March 2018 13: 10
        +2
        Quote: Ehanatone
        And when you leave Napoleon alone!
        After all, in the end, he was engaged in the same thing that we are now fighting with England, i.e. ultimately survival.

        Are you out of your mind? Look at the map, where is London and where is Moscow. By the way, until the first from Paris, nothing at all. I understand you all the same, in order to survive, it is absolutely necessary to conquer at least half the world. lol
    4. krops777
      krops777 24 March 2018 04: 22
      0
      The Anglo-Saxons are preparing a large-scale operation to legally rob all of Russia's assets abroad ... Skripal’s business, so to speak, is the first stage of this scam.


      And rightly so, from one point of view, we cannot reason our oligarchs ourselves, and with another, they will undermine the trust of other countries, which will negatively affect the influx of investments, in general it seems that the money stolen from the collapse of the USSR in the EU and the USA has ended.
  3. KCA
    KCA 23 March 2018 04: 51
    +19
    Alcoholic drinks are not alcohol in essence, because alcohol is translated as alcohol, and alcoholic drinks are not alcohol, but alcohol-containing, which means they cannot be considered alcohol, the alcohol concentration in alcohol-containing (alcoholic) drinks is from 2.5 to 98%, and pure alcohol is 98%, means - the output is written in the first line
    1. novel66
      novel66 23 March 2018 07: 27
      +14
      cool brainstorming! those. if we do not drink alcohol, it seems that we do not drink. I will show my wife hi
      1. KCA
        KCA 23 March 2018 07: 35
        +8
        So this is the reasoning about hypersound, which is not hypersound at all, flies on hypersound, but not hypersonic aircraft, well, in general, the topic is long and intricate
    2. d ^ Amir
      d ^ Amir 23 March 2018 08: 59
      +2
      but I always suspected it !!!!!!! hi hi hi all!!! Now there is something to say to the spouse ...
    3. Max golovanovo
      Max golovanovo 23 March 2018 11: 09
      +2
      Dear colleague, your logic is lame. 98% a priori cannot be pure. Pure - only 100%. In 98% - as much as 2% of water. But 100% alcohol is no longer drinkable, in summary - there are no alcoholic drinks, only alcohol-containing ones.
      1. KCA
        KCA 23 March 2018 13: 08
        +1
        If you delve into the jungle of chemistry, then 100% of the substance can never be, even distilled water contains air and other impurities, so it will be 99.9999 ...% water, and besides, water dissolves even glass, even in very small degree, and in vitro there will be a mixture of water, glass, air and other impurities that got before the distillation or in the process thereof.
      2. Orionvit
        Orionvit 23 March 2018 13: 14
        +1
        Quote: Max Golovanovo
        In 98% - as much as 2% of water

        And I’ll correct you, 98% percent can only be in the laboratory. If you studied chemistry, then the purest alcohol, under normal conditions, will always be no more than 96%.
        1. aloleggry
          aloleggry 23 March 2018 14: 44
          +3
          95,6 azeotrope with water. Conditionally 100% can be obtained by applying special. methods, but you won’t be able to drink it. Open in the air, he immediately grabs moisture from the air and get the same 95,6. It looks like a glass of milk.
    4. meandr51
      meandr51 23 March 2018 11: 16
      +1
      I agree. The author is an individual with deviant thinking or an agent of influence of Theresa May.
      1. KCA
        KCA 23 March 2018 13: 15
        +2
        My thinking was broken by the assertion that hypersonic speed is not hypersonic at all, but an apparatus flying and performing maneuvers with hypersonic speed is not GLA at all, especially when a person who is not familiar with the construction of the GLA discussed in any way gives these statements, but reasoning solely on the basis of his own opinions on their principles of movement and maneuvering
  4. Slat808
    Slat808 23 March 2018 04: 58
    +6
    . Pessimists and "analysts", "familiar" with the material, and so a dime a dozen. Minus.
  5. Sergey985
    Sergey985 23 March 2018 06: 30
    +12
    The President’s message was understood and heard. Do not build illusions, the answer will fly. Incidentally, he said that meeting with a goal takes place in hypersound. But the emphasis was on the fact that there was nothing to intercept everything that he mentioned. That is, guaranteed defeat of goals. And hypersound, in this case, is not an end in itself. The author’s conclusions are simply amazing: hypersound is not hypersound, just in case you have to give up !!!! With a sweetheart article.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Jurkovs
        Jurkovs 23 March 2018 08: 13
        +2
        They said that "it works for the Pentagon."
        1. novel66
          novel66 23 March 2018 09: 31
          0
          I love historical parallels (apparently only me)
  6. Operator
    Operator 23 March 2018 07: 25
    +3
    The author - do not rush to conclusions: the speed of the Albatross cruise missile has not yet been disclosed laughing
  7. BastaKarapuzik And
    BastaKarapuzik And 23 March 2018 08: 00
    +9
    Vanguard maneuvers in the atmosphere, he "goes to the goal like a ball of fire" (c). Maybe the hypersound, in fact, was not the same as they thought about it?
    Well, sorry.
    If the missiles, previously called ballistic steel, were controlled at the final stage of the flight, then maybe they have already left the definition of their class? And how do you order them to be called?
    And generally speaking. There is no problem of "achieving hypersound in the atmosphere." There is a problem of response to the aggressor.
  8. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 23 March 2018 08: 12
    +8
    Launched from a high-altitude supersonic interceptor MiG-31, the Dagger complex is an aeroballistic missile. That is, as the name implies, this is a ballistic missile launched from an airplane.

    The author knows little about the materiel. The Iskander rocket is also considered aeroballistic. Because in fact it is ballistic, but controlled in the atmosphere without any wings, elevators, ailerons, and so on.
  9. Begemot
    Begemot 23 March 2018 08: 37
    +3
    I believe that the corporal of the refueling team or the captain of an aircraft carrier will be exactly the same as in relation to the speed of sound the crap that carried the ship and themselves is characterized. Maintaining hypersound along the entire trajectory today is not justified, the final section of the air defense / missile defense zone is enough. That's when there will be a solid field of missile defense (if this is possible in principle), then highly likly will create a complete hypersound. By that time, it may be easier to carry a charge into the territory of the "partners" in the string bag.
  10. Victor19
    Victor19 23 March 2018 08: 39
    +2
    All these new items need a lot of money. To confront a serious adversary (NATO bloc), mass production of all these nyashki is necessary. Mass can now be seen on the example of Almaty (order for several dozen tanks) and SU-57 (I do not know exactly, but the order is about a dozen aircraft). In the end, everything depends not on the military-industrial complex, but on the country's economy, for which there is "no money" so far. The economy will rise, then it will be good, no, then you can recall the words of the Secretary General in 1931: "" The history of old Russia consisted, among other things, of being continuously beaten for backwardness. They beat the Mongol khans. They beat the Turkish beks. They beat the Swedish feudal lords. They beat Polish-Lithuanian lords. Anglo-French capitalists beat. Japanese barons beat. Everyone beat for backwardness, for military backwardness, for cultural backwardness, for industrial backwardness, for agricultural backwardness ... We lagged behind advanced countries by 50 "100 years. We must run this distance in ten years. Either we do it or they crush us."
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 23 March 2018 09: 03
      +2
      And they ran and got ahead in some areas (T-34, KV) and still almost crushed. Developments can be arbitrarily super. Build in sufficient numbers, equip troops, train calculations. Time and a lot of money that are now deposited in the pockets of oligarchs and thieving bureaucrats. These are not able to create a reliable shield, they have other tasks - to cut the budget, to appropriate the income from hydrocarbons. The world rests on the fear of the Masons for their skins, because so far they cannot defend themselves globally. As soon as a real umbrella is created (I don’t know if this is possible in principle, I don’t understand from the sofa) wait for trouble.
    2. vik669
      vik669 23 March 2018 09: 43
      +1
      Yes, under such a flag with such "bros" we said one ensign in one film - the whole world is in ruins!
    3. Max golovanovo
      Max golovanovo 23 March 2018 11: 16
      +2
      Correction The Mongol khans did not beat Russia, but individual principalities, which by no means lay claim to great power. But when Russia arose, the fifteenth century, the Mongol khans already worked for Russia. I believe that I.V.S. was in the know, but expressed his idea a little simplified.
      1. AID.S
        AID.S 23 March 2018 23: 33
        0
        Quote: Max Golovanovo
        I believe that I.V.S. was in the know, but expressed his idea a little simplified.

        You are a little late for a discussion with Joseph Vissarionovich. He did not have time to register for VO.
    4. Altai
      Altai 23 March 2018 12: 08
      +1
      They didn’t beat, but tried to beat, and all of those listed by you received in full no matter how.
      Quote: Victor19
      All these new items need a lot of money. To confront a serious adversary (NATO bloc), mass production of all these nyashki is necessary. Mass can now be seen on the example of Almaty (order for several dozen tanks) and SU-57 (I do not know exactly, but the order is about a dozen aircraft). In the end, everything depends not on the military-industrial complex, but on the country's economy, for which there is "no money" so far. The economy will rise, then it will be good, no, then you can recall the words of the Secretary General in 1931: "" The history of old Russia consisted, among other things, of being continuously beaten for backwardness. They beat the Mongol khans. They beat the Turkish beks. They beat the Swedish feudal lords. They beat Polish-Lithuanian lords. Anglo-French capitalists beat. Japanese barons beat. Everyone beat for backwardness, for military backwardness, for cultural backwardness, for industrial backwardness, for agricultural backwardness ... We lagged behind advanced countries by 50 "100 years. We must run this distance in ten years. Either we do it or they crush us."
    5. Orionvit
      Orionvit 23 March 2018 13: 30
      +3
      Quote: Victor19
      “The history of old Russia consisted, incidentally, in the fact that it was continuously beaten for backwardness

      They beat them, and where are they all now? Have you ever been beaten in life? And what, they killed? It breaks some, others, on the contrary, become stronger. Now look at the map and find Russia. And this country that has always been beaten? Yes, in 1991 the territories were stolen (some, frankly speaking, were not needed for nothing), but not from the fact that they “beat”, but as a result of impudent deception and betrayal, since they are directly afraid of “beating”. I hope the conclusions are drawn.
      We are 50-100 years behind advanced countries
      What is behind? In tolerance and political correctness, I agree. Everything else, just fiction, external surroundings. Russia does not produce Mercedes or iPhones, so there was no social order. It will be necessary, will produce. If you say "the eternal slavish Ukrainian dream" of "European integration", and admiration for everything Western, then it is clear.
  11. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 23 March 2018 08: 45
    +5
    The author is not quite right. Designers have solved a serious problem. The weapon is controlled at such speeds. Which makes him so irresistible. And whether he has a marching hypersonic engine or not - this, from my point of view, is not too important ...
    1. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 23 March 2018 09: 49
      +7
      In fact, the author raised a very important point, and you emphasized it even more. The controllability of hypersonic objects at a relatively low altitude is extremely difficult due to the movement of the object in the plasma cloud, and is extremely necessary when solving combat missions. In addition, a hypersonic object must be able to move at a specified speed for a long time, this is exactly what is critical. In the meantime, the author of the rights the weapon announced by the president of the Russian Federation will really work effectively, but there is no technological breakthrough. This does not mean the defectiveness of weapons; it only speaks of the defectiveness of allegations surrounding weapons and the need for work to strengthen the defense capability of the Russian Federation.
      1. Max golovanovo
        Max golovanovo 23 March 2018 11: 18
        +1
        Dear Alexey! Find out how long the device should move at such speeds when overcoming the ABM line.
        1. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 23 March 2018 14: 15
          0
          Ideally, this is of course all the way from the moment the acceleration section ends after separation from the launch platform to the end of the flight. I think there should not be specific figures for the size of the hypersonic section, and if they can be something like this, at least 50%, and better 75% of the maximum range.
    2. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte 23 March 2018 10: 39
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The weapon is controlled at such speeds. Which makes him so irresistible.

      The main thing for the weapon is not to be controlled, but to aim at the target. A hypersonic aircraft moves in a cloud of plasma blocking any radiation. If a rocket can be brought to a stationary object using an onboard inertial navigation system, then how to point it at a moving object, for example, a ship?
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 23 March 2018 11: 24
        +2
        The problem of blocking radiation is solved. This was spoken by representatives of the Moscow Region.
        1. Snakebyte
          Snakebyte 23 March 2018 21: 58
          0
          Have they discovered new laws of physics?
          However, the nonsense from the MO say anything to justify their comfortable existence.
  12. K-50
    K-50 23 March 2018 08: 59
    +6
    The argument is about nothing. request
    Hypersound - SUSTAINABLE movement in the atmosphere is not lower than a certain speed.
    The way of movement is not regulated in any way, although teleportation jumps.
    All the screams are only because, let it be stupefying, Western geyropeytsy and gossip shit democrats that they were "circumvented at the turn." So they start whining.
    A gentleman plays by the rules; if he cannot win by them, he changes the rules. This is the reason for the cries.
    Hence, the Su-57 is not a 5th generation aircraft. yes
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 23 March 2018 12: 49
      +2
      Quote: K-50
      Hypersound - SUSTAINABLE movement in the atmosphere is not lower than a certain speed.

      For (!) ... with both hands! But with respect to other arguments, summingly! stop
  13. konstantin68
    konstantin68 23 March 2018 09: 02
    +2
    To argue over the correctness of the terms, probably there is no point. Simply put, the higher the b / h speed when entering the enemy air defense / pro control zone, the better. If due to increased speed the survivability of our warheads and their ability to break through enemy air defense / pro are increased, then what's the difference, as they are called in the media space?
  14. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 23 March 2018 09: 45
    +2
    It’s necessary to throw two hats.
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 23 March 2018 10: 34
      +2
      even if all the caps of the "dagger" of the "avant-garde" fall on the lawn of the white house, I will say something random and a meteorite will fall
  15. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 23 March 2018 10: 27
    0
    Where did the zircon go? Either we heard about it or there was a trick for NATO!
  16. Old26
    Old26 23 March 2018 10: 40
    +8
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    I read the article and lost heart ... smile we were gone ... we are finished ... there are a lot of them a billion ... there are not so many hats in Russia ... not enough for everyone.

    Well, Alexei, it’s certainly not worth it to lose heart, but the article, I think, is quite balanced, without euphoria, such as “We will tear everyone”. The author is somewhat right. Sometimes we just replace concepts. Not out of spite, but because of the current situation. Here is a simple example. What is the difference between a generation 4+ airplane (for example) and a generation 5 airplane. The most important thing that distinguishes these two machines is that the generation 5 airplane has cruising supersonic. He flies on it for a short time, forcing engines, like cars of the previous generation. It’s not the maximum speed, but cruising. Yes, it may even be such that the car of the previous generation has a maximum speed higher than in the "five". But the five are supersonic cruising speed.

    so here in the article. The same "Dagger" (although I doubt that it has a 4-fold increase in range) moves using a solid-fuel engine. At the same time, his starting speed is not at all zero, like that of the same Iskander. But he’ll only get the maximum when the fuel burns out completely. The Iskander has a speed of 2,1 km / s. i.e. 6M. And then ... Next, the same "Iskander" begins to "slow down" in the dense layers of the atmosphere and its speed drops to 700-800 m / s. The same will be with the "Dagger." If at heights of 50-70 km he will have a speed that is voiced, that is 10M, then only there and for a short time. Then he will begin to slow down intensively and no one knows what speed he will have before hitting the target. Maybe there will be a speed of 3M. And this means that there are means of destruction for such purposes. Now, if there was a ramjet engine - then we can say, yes, hypersonic weapons.

    Quote: The same Lech
    But we, to be honest, are not ahead of anyone for decades.

    Well, it’s not going into any gates at all.
    Tell me the countries in the world who are capable of creating in the near future the very same Daggers ... Sarmatians ... Vanguards, etc ..

    Country? The same USA. We forget that work on similar weapon systems was begun several years before we began to do this. Yes, not everything is going smoothly. some programs were frozen due to the lack of a legal framework. But there were works. The same American X-43A and X-51 showed speeds of 5-10M 10 years ago. Similar developments to the Vanguard were carried out by them at about the same time. They are closed (or frozen) because these products were developed as non-nuclear, and we did not agree that America should have ICBMs with non-nuclear warheads and use them when needed. But this is more a political than a technical solution. “unfreeze” the same developments now - a lot of time is not necessary, especially since they will have enough money for this

    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    Surely there are still surprises in GDP for the Golden Billion from Russia's military arsenals about which we do not know and about which the West has no idea ..

    Well, in the coffers you can find a lot if you dig. The question is how effective these systems are. In particular, the same “Status” causes me a lot of questions.

    Quote: The same Lech
    I’ll say this to the author ... I’m calm for the military sphere in Russia ... our armed forces are able to destroy this golden Billion and the only problem for Russia now is not just what you have listed, but the country's internal economy ... this is the Achilles heel and her you need to do it without delaying ..

    So the economy is the backbone on which everything rests. You can make for example a bomb of gigantic braininess, but at the same time it will be in the amount of 1 instance and the whole economy of the country will work for it for a single year. The task of the armed forces is that they should be sufficient to cause unacceptable damage to the enemy, and not in order to adopt exotic types of weapons.


    Quote: K0
    Yes, the conclusion from the article is this (exaggerating of course):
    I don’t know how the engineers did everything there, I don’t have exact data, but I doubt very much that hypersound (and indeed hypersound, in my opinion should be at an altitude of 1 km then then).

    The author’s conclusions, by the way, are quite correct. Well, what if we trust the media more, and not those who at least somehow understand this. We believe the media - as it raises our self-esteem. And articles of this kind are rather a tub of cold water on hot heads. Sometimes, too, the right thing ..

    Quote: Jurkovs
    The author knows little about the materiel. The Iskander rocket is also considered aeroballistic. Because in fact it is ballistic, but controlled in the atmosphere without any wings, elevators, ailerons, and so on.

    You really need to learn the materiel. Aeroballistic missiles are called air-to-ground ballistic missiles. This is the first. So the Iskander rocket starting from the ground cannot be aeroballistic.
    And explain to us, share your sacred knowledge of how to control a rocket in the atmosphere without all these aerodynamic planes, without gas rudders and the like unnecessary things. Even if the rocket has a "supporting body". then it can be trivial to turn (entrust) to a target using just such devices. According to the knowledge of the materiel - NEUD
    1. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 23 March 2018 10: 57
      0
      Great koment. Definitely a plus. Everything is true about the spirit and about real things.
    2. Shahno
      Shahno 23 March 2018 11: 05
      +1
      I have already repeatedly expressed doubts ... We should not assume that scientists from leading centers of the states and Europe are not up to date ... Populist videos exaggerate the real power. But in reality there are no materials that will keep 3000K for more than 10 seconds at altitudes from 0 to 5 km. No technology transfer stub. signal through the plasma. But there is 35, there are aircraft carriers, there is a space grouping ... And this can be felt. It is in sufficient quantities. And the words, well, where are they?
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 23 March 2018 11: 44
        +2
        -Do you see a gopher?
        -No
        -And I do not see, and he IS
      2. Photon
        Photon 23 March 2018 12: 17
        +3
        In fact, with mathematics, and in particular with hydrodynamics, in our country has always been not bad. And in terms of hypersonic aerodynamics, back in the days of the Soviet Union there was an advantage. That is, as far as scientists from leading centers of the states, Europe are aware of this question.
      3. Photon
        Photon 23 March 2018 12: 22
        +3
        And by the way, why exactly 3000 K? And why at heights from 0 to 5 km? It seems that 5 km will be overcome much faster than in 10 seconds. And how will the temperature change during a dive? Did you count it yourself? Or did the Dagger developers tell you?
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 23 March 2018 15: 39
          0
          So many questions? I will try briefly. 3000 k will be on the skin at critical points with 5-6 max near the ground (tested in tsagi and JPL, Pasadena). When using graphite-Ta-Hf multilayer composites, the material lost its mechanical properties for 7 seconds, and shock times dropped in 2 times. strength, bending, hardness, etc., changed chemical. structure. During a dive, this is a dumb blank, and the cm-6 will calculate all its maneuvers in seconds. Such a warhead will not stretch more than 15 km on hypersound, but will find it km beyond 50. So estimate the possibility or not the possibility of interception.
          1. Photon
            Photon 23 March 2018 23: 36
            +3
            Sorry, these are the words. These are not links to experiments, they are not calculations. Moreover, dividing 15km by 6M I got 7,5 seconds. Something is telling my heart that you are treating numbers too freely
    3. SETTGF
      SETTGF 23 March 2018 13: 56
      +1
      Respected! You are wrong about the "Dagger", you all do not take into account the free fall acceleration of 9,8 m / s2 ... the speed of the Dagger rocket when it hits the target will be at least 10M !!! This is physics!
  17. uhu189
    uhu189 23 March 2018 10: 51
    +1
    The article is interesting, and the author’s doubts are justified, but I would like to ask the author a question - maybe there are engineering solutions for the full-fledged, as he said “academic” hypersound, but their implementation just costs too much money, and a more compromise has been made solution in terms of efficiency / cost balance? It is difficult to judge technologies without understanding all the subtleties and details of even a particular product. Will the USA be able to create such a thing - yes, it will definitely be able to, but the question is in time. As far as I understand, the task of the official presentation of these weapons was one - to stop the slide to a nuclear war. Everything else is already related effects.
  18. jeezar
    jeezar 23 March 2018 11: 02
    +2
    If there is hypersound or not, let the intelligence agencies of the probable enemy find out. They threw a job. Let them work. )))
  19. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 23 March 2018 11: 03
    +8
    Troll article. Our type president was dreaming, having no basis for allegations in the message. Like any tank gun with a muzzle velocity of 2000 m / s - this is a hypersonic thing, and everyone has them all. Firstly, not at all, and far from complete, in comparison with us. And missiles with a greater speed from a force of 2-3 powers can boast, and they will catch up with us and the rest of the small-power in 2 counts. The author himself took up hatred for them. He would have known the state of the world scientific and experimental base in this topic - he would have known that the hypersonic wind tunnel was and is ONLY in the Soviet TsAGI. More than 20 Machs issued since the 80s. Repeat such a pipe is very good. expensive, unbearably even for the United States alone. And this is many years for design and construction. And we are already completing Sarmat’s tests and are putting pre-production missiles into the mines, starting throwing launches from the mines, starting mass production in parallel, etc. The author imagines how many years we are ahead of the enemy in rocket technology? Wang, that FOREVER. This is our hatred and och. pleasant euphoria. Grumble silently, author, to yourself!
  20. askme
    askme 23 March 2018 11: 12
    +6
    The author is a blockhead. Sincere or interested is not important.
    Firstly, the high-altitude launch of the “Dagger” is more profitable not mainly because of speed losses due to air resistance, but because of a decrease in gravitational losses, the characteristic speed is different when starting at sea level or at an altitude of 20 km ...
    Secondly, both the Dagger and the Vanguard - both fly in the atmosphere along the entire trajectory. Therefore, the solution stated in the President’s Address to the problem of controlled hypersonic flight in the atmosphere is a reality and a truly revolutionary breakthrough. The author is completely ignorant of evaluations in this sense.

    Thirdly, both Granite and Vulcan are anti-ship missiles, which have supersonic speed in all parts of the trajectory, and not partial, as the author has missed. Yes, at the finish line both increase speed to almost 1 km / s, but this does not mean that before that they do not fly on supersonic sound on the march. I remind you that transonic and supersonic start from 343 m / s. On the march, these anti-ship missiles fly at 500 m / s. This is the speed of a bullet, this is supersonic.

    In general, like the VO article on 20386 corvettes, this is an explicit order. This is a targeted trolling in the guise of an opponent of "hatred". Under this specious MASK, readers are stuffed with overt propaganda of Westerners and their Russian-speaking attendants against Russian weapons.
    1. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte 23 March 2018 22: 09
      0
      Pseudo-patriots have any opinion other than “uniquely unparalleled analogs” immediately trolling and enemy propaganda.
      Indeed, otherwise the main pillar of the worldview would collapse.
  21. Vidimir
    Vidimir 23 March 2018 11: 19
    +2
    The author begins with TTX and they in these types of weapons correspond to hypersound, as he admits. But then he goes on to the design and conditions of use. And at these points, he claims that this is not hypersound. Even if such a classification is allowed, the question remains - how do the conditions of use and design affect the fulfillment of the assigned combat mission.? It seems to me that it does not affect in any way. There is hypersound and intercepting these missiles is unrealistic.
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 23 March 2018 11: 24
      +2
      Think 10 with hypersound. And compare with tth pro, well, for example on AUG.
      1. Photon
        Photon 23 March 2018 12: 32
        +2
        Well, I thought. There are too many options to understand what you are hinting at.
      2. Oml
        Oml 23 March 2018 12: 50
        +1
        UFO seen? Not? Then ask your military how this can be. Previously, and in the engine they were looking for hidden horses!
  22. turbris
    turbris 23 March 2018 11: 21
    0
    “But we probably should nevertheless be more correct in the definitions, because excessive euphoria, especially in the military field, often leads to unnecessary hat-thinking moods. But we will be honest, we will not be ahead of anyone for decades.” Everything is correct with regard to the correctness of the wording, but who creates these hat-thinking moods? The president did not say anything about decades ahead, he said on the contrary that they would certainly catch up with us, but by this time our guys would come up with something else. But our media and illiterate journalists, in order to increase the ratings of which they just won’t write, I don’t know, maybe this is aimed at misleading a potential adversary, but our readers fall under this propaganda. The weapon was created innovative and it is an amazing success of our scientists and the defense industry, only journalistic fiction is too much.
  23. SERGEY KOZLOV
    SERGEY KOZLOV 23 March 2018 11: 26
    0
    Author: Viktor Kuzovkov
    Why did you scratch this? Wanted to show my literacy? Well, showed. At the same time, I wanted to tell Uncle Sam that everything had not been lost? Well, showed. Waiting for cookies? Well, get run, maybe you can. Maybe there can be ... The Skripal’s place is free, take a seat.
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 23 March 2018 13: 39
      +1
      Well, if so smart, then roll the article itself to refute the author good we’ll see how many times they’ll tell you about cookies, about the State Department or the Kremlin, and at the same time we’ll evaluate literacy and how well it turns out to put words into sentences. A person has outlined his vision of this issue, argued as much as possible. It’s excellent to argue about and with arguments, just a comment for the sake of comment-sad.
  24. AleBors
    AleBors 23 March 2018 11: 44
    +2
    I do not pretend to be an expert opinion, because I walk on the ground, but I got the impression that the presence of all these "wunderwaffes", to put it mildly, is doubtful. It's just that these figures of speech are designed to foment patriotism. As, in fact, phrases about the economy and concern for the population. I do not pretend to be true, but I do not believe in everything that has been said.
    You can start throwing stools ...
    1. askme
      askme 23 March 2018 11: 50
      +2
      Come on, drive what stools. You are just on your site, this is your resource, such as you. Only openly manifest. Here, the majority are open or hidden opponents of the President. And the assessments are appropriate ... Most of them consider themselves patriots, although in fact they are strange patriots. And people like you are frank troll enemies.
      1. AleBors
        AleBors 23 March 2018 13: 16
        0
        1. In my opinion, I did not insult you.
        2. You were not offended by other members of the site.
        3. No one is forbidden to express their opinion on the Internet resource, and no one asks for your permission. The same applies to my (and others) attitude to GDP.
        4. Do not like the site-tablecloth road.
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 23 March 2018 13: 54
        0
        But what does patriotism and honoring mean? It’s not necessary to be happy with everything that is done in the country to be a patriot. I’ll explain more simply that I can love my factory where I work, my village where I was born, and let it do something every day and the little things for prosperity. but this does not mean that I should look at the factory director or the head of the village administration with puppy devotion. Even in accordance with the constitution, we are not a monarchy. Because there is a division, there is a king, there is a fatherland. Guarantor of course doing something to strengthen the country, but some of its initiatives can be regarded as very doubtful. We will not confuse warm with soft hi
        1. askme
          askme 23 March 2018 14: 19
          0
          Articles like this one are articles of bailers of modern Russian weapons. The stunners and those who support them. Those who dispute the achievements of the military-industrial complex of modern Russia UNAFFECTIVELY, those who talk about the military-industrial complex and its achievements, guided only by their emotions of hatred or mischief towards the President, and not some reasonable grounds based on knowledge of the subject, people who speculate on the issue are not patriots. These are trolls.

          People who are based on the real successes of the military-industrial complex, patriotism, in which there is respect for work, including the President, who recreated the power of the military-industrial complex, who is now able to create breakthrough systems, if in this position they see "puppy loyalty", this is only because they themselves are a dog complex in the soul, in the head, when either puppy-like ones kiss on the object of their unconditional attachment, or bake the object of their unconditional hatred. Both that and another is a dog reflex. Which is exactly what you are demonstrating. Like many here .. There is no reasonable position in both extremes of this level.
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 23 March 2018 16: 42
            0
            Where exactly in the article did they complain? It’s an attempt to sort it out, there’s a fault, he saw it. This is probably more of a problem of perception. I didn’t say a word for the people who put in the effort. I repeat to you how Moscow, not all Russia, the president is not the whole nation. no matter what he is at this post they are complaining not about the person, but about the policy pursued by that person. the president is the servant of the people, and not vice versa, the citizens of his country trust him for various reasons it’s not worth it to cononize, which is what you are doing. Pour out loud words about patriotism without understanding anything about this word. In terms of dog reflexes, you are also demonstrating excellent watch dog training that protects its owner.
            1. Snakebyte
              Snakebyte 23 March 2018 22: 22
              0
              Do not pay attention to it. Belief in the wonderful domestic military-industrial complex is the only thing left for him (well, still faith in the holy President).
              There are no good domestic cars, household appliances, electronics. There is no normal industry, agriculture, roads. But he agrees with this state of affairs, because all the forces of the country's most brilliant scientists and engineers are devoted to creating unique and unmatched weapons.
          2. AleBors
            AleBors 24 March 2018 16: 56
            0
            And in your position there is some kind of rationality, except for the "UNFASABLE", as you deigned to say, "puppy" devotion to GDP? Your loyalty is not too reasonable - the owner feeds poorly.
            And again ... Nobody has been chasing the military-industrial complex. So pick up emotions and look at life more realistically, it will become easier for you to perceive the changes in the near future.
  25. V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 23 March 2018 11: 48
    +2
    Hats - not needed (out of fashion).
    Enough 3 - 4 x 50MT for the States, 4 x 50MT for Europe, 1 x 50MT for Australia and the German-speaking civilization will be erased.
    These Mt can be delivered there in every possible way, even on horseback ... hi
  26. Ingvar0401
    Ingvar0401 23 March 2018 12: 35
    +3
    Quote: Mih1974
    And let’s frankly - scary (more efficient) interceptor than the Mig-31 is still not !!! good bully All kinds of duper fast sounds, this is good, but back in the USSR they understood how they got into a mess when they threw all their strength only at rockets under Khrushchev and cut Artillery almost to zero fool . So a rocket is a rocket, but bring it first. And in general, while our Strategic Rocket Forces break through their ABMs with guarantee, all these “pronounced” polymers are for knocking out dough or forcing and offers to give up.

    I agree. If my memory serves me right, then the MiG-31 has several world records in speed magazine for speed and height .... Do not run into the author of the article - he writes as best he can. Something turned out to be informative. I can sitting in the cabin by the sound to determine which plane flies past my ship Tornado, Gripen, Eurofighter, Orion. Let him write ...
  27. Photon
    Photon 23 March 2018 12: 45
    0
    Why noise? The Americans (we, unfortunately, too) do not even have a chance to repel a nuclear strike without Vanguard. And no AUG can operate in the area where coastal aviation can get it even without a “Dagger”. And in general, these developments have very ancient roots. T.ch. by and large, nothing has changed.
    But in general it’s nice that in spite of everything, there are engineers and scientists in the country, and not just merchandisers and lawyers,
  28. Disorder
    Disorder 23 March 2018 14: 51
    +2
    An awesome article. wassat I suggest the author write an article "intermediate cartridge - is it an increased pistol or a reduced rifle?"
    It doesn't matter what the name of the speed or trajectory is - the main thing is that the missile defense is ineffective.
  29. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 23 March 2018 14: 52
    +1
    Well, how to call Entu "Murzilka"? “Braid roll?” That is, “shadow on the wattle fence”? Only pearls sayings are worth what? :
    ((Sub-caliber shells fly out of these guns at approximately 5 Mach speed - legally, and very simplified, this is already hypersonic.)) Legally! And what? This "son of a lawyer" does not know a more correct (technical definition)?
    ((The speed of the “Dagger” is quite consistent with any definition of hypersonic weapons. It also has its own marching engine. But its flight takes place at such altitudes where the atmosphere is only nominally. Which means it would not be entirely correct to talk about hypersonic speed in the air , as well as about solving problems associated with this.)) What does it mean "nominally"? Close to zero? To the "space" vacuum? The atmosphere, is it or is it, or is it not ?! The flight of the “dagger” takes place along an aeroballistic “trajectory” in the air Atmosphere, albeit more rarefied than at the launch height! And it experiences air resistance, albeit to a lesser extent. Why, for example, at the launch height!
    ((As for the Avangard complex, this is not a rocket at all and not an independent aircraft. The definition of a “war block” misleads people who are far from a military topic. So let's simplify it - it's just a warhead of an intercontinental ballistic missile. Yes, it innovative, technically very sophisticated, capable of maneuvering at the final part of its trajectory, and yet, it is imparted to it by a launch vehicle, it flies by inertia, it exhibits hypersonic properties only when entering dense layers of the atmosphere, and also but a very short period of time.))
    Well ... the author again "sucked" crime from a finger! After all, no one assured that the "Vanguard" is: 1. Rocket, 2. "Independent" apparatus with the engine! (except that the journalists are of the "level" of the author ...?) But this "war block" is capable of specifically maneuvering (that is, it has a control system ... maybe even autonomous, determined by a given algorithm), changing the height and azimuth on the Battle (working) Trajectory Section with Hypersonic Speed! And if you recall the "vigorous" CR, then you can expect the appearance of after a while "independent apparatus" (BB) with nuclear power!
    ((We have been armed with a supersonic PRK, for example, Granite or Volcano, for a long time. However, upon closer examination, we see that these missiles are supersonic only at the final segment of the flight, when the combat stage leaves the spent marching, decreases and exits at supersonic speeds to overcome ship's air defense))
    Another pearl! "Granites / Volcanoes" "part" only with starting powder accelerators after they are worked out after the start.! These RCCs reach supersonic speed on the marching flight section at an altitude of up to 14 (?) Km! At this height, and speed. And range-maximum! When lowering and flying at a minimum height, both speed and range are significantly reduced!
    Everything ! I'm already tired of this showdown! Adieu!
  30. sleeve
    sleeve 23 March 2018 15: 20
    0
    Let's start from the end, as one of my friends doctor likes to say. There are no caps for the "golden billion". Chop off the light and water (which we have the same tradition) and take prisoners. Not that folk ... Not that. And what about the "Dagger"? And we have a device (and why, it has control functions!) That performs the tasks of a hypersonic weapon in a combat application, namely, “hits targets at hypersonic speed” ... That is, it makes an ultrahigh-speed “bams” in the final section, zeroing out all the positive Air defense and constructive protection. And he does it at a distance of 2000 km. But is there a big difference in which route it gets to the attack start zone? Will it be visible in the radar from far away? Yes, health, returning to the above about air defense and the rest. But what about the “perfect picture” of a person starting on a horizontal trajectory maneuvering on hypersound of the PC? But nothing. We have a ready-made blank of experimental combat potential. It can beat, or can slowly increase the energy of the taxiway, first reducing the launch height, then speed (etc.), increasing its efficiency (in order to maintain range and maintain previous aspirations through weight reduction), and also slowly be brought to the sample (although go already does not interfere with anything) RCC with all the characteristics (well, maybe half a Mach slower and three times closer) hypersound. Size is close to Caliber. And if, for example, you come to a high-energy engine slowly and accelerate due to a powerful pulse accelerator, and also reduce the range to 400, for example, a warhead by half (there is still not enough kinematics there, but maybe a different principle, and not BB?), it can be charged into the mines. True, the complex will still work through ballistics; from a hill, acceleration is more interesting. But! He already is, and I repeat, he can smell. So from T-26 to T-72 by the same rules ... It seems so.
  31. Mengad
    Mengad 23 March 2018 15: 36
    +2
    Quote: Semen1972
    Quote: meandr51
    which can prevent a real war by intimidating the enemy and raising the spirit of their people.

    What does "can" mean ??? The message has already taken place. Did it prevent war and scare opponents or not? If so ... then it turns out that before that we could not answer the states ... and it was a big fake that we could answer at any moment ... WE could NOTHING .. Now the frightened states will start either an arms race, at least somehow try (unsuccessfully) to catch up with us, they will tear on this, as the USSR will fall apart ... or they will recognize Russia as the most powerful military country in the world, close their bases as unnecessary and will quietly decay on their continent .. We are waiting for what their scenarios are realized in the coming months ... symptoms should already appear just about ..

    It’s ridiculous to read you ... with a shaking club ... with GDP not of Putin but of Gross Product .. at the level of South Korea. laughing
    1. askme
      askme 23 March 2018 15: 47
      +1
      Another troll rode up ... Russia's GDP at PPP (purchasing power parity), i.e. according to the real value in real prices, Russia has almost equal to the GDP at the PPP of Germany. For a very long time on this indicator, these countries share fifth and sixth places, changing places. So relax along with all of your friendly and diverse company of trolls in VO, extremely well-educated reading groups of different audiences ... South Korea appears in a completely different weight category, like most other countries in the world.
      1. Oleg Monarchist
        Oleg Monarchist 23 March 2018 16: 36
        0
        He is not from Germany. He is from Latvia. Latvia, this is the "locomotive of the world economy" laughing (rusty true, and doesn't go anywhere)
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 23 March 2018 17: 32
        -1
        Louder than everyone is, keep the thief, the thief shouts. While the fattest troll leaves you. On Wikipedia GDP on PPP according to the IMF -47 instead, according to the same data for 2017-50. You can look at the ratings of other offices, the difference is not significant. PPP GDP is one abstract assumption (of which there are a lot), the indicator has no value. If you compare 10-20 products (as they do in everyday life), then some kind of representativeness may be present, but in reality they compare thousands of goods and services that vary greatly from country to country. Moreover, it is difficult to average prices in huge Russia (from Vladivostok to Kaliningrad, so which Russia appears in these comparisons?), Because the error will be huge. But as a figure warming someone’s soul, this indicator is quite suitable. I understand that here you take information from Yandex pictures. lol
        1. askme
          askme 23 March 2018 18: 03
          +1
          Quote: Korax71
          . on Wikipedia GDP on PPP according to the IMF -47 instead, according to the same data for 2017-50.

          Consider that you were caught for a skirbon and kicked your ass, for impudent lies, an impudent trollin. According to the IMF, GDP for PPPs of Russia for 2016 is the sixth in the world - 3862 billion US dollars, GDP for PPPs in Germany is the fifth (3997 billion US dollars). Wikipedia has the same numbers.
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 23 March 2018 18: 24
            +2
            So it seems that the level of economic development is determined by the GDP of the PPP per capita, and not by the gross indicator, because it is just with Russia, somewhere at the level of Turkey. That somewhere is one and a half times less than that of Israel, which has practically no natural resources. This should be alarming. And your country is big, yes ...
            1. askme
              askme 23 March 2018 18: 28
              +1
              Not. So he is not determined. So in the top ten countries leaders in GDP per capita PPP (the leader is Qatar, and China in about seventy places) there are no economic, political or technological leaders in the world. But GDP at PPPs in countries as a whole gives exactly the picture of the world's economic leaders, that is, those who determine the rules of the economic game in the world. These are the basics of macroeconomics. I tell you as a professional.
              1. Shahno
                Shahno 23 March 2018 18: 38
                0
                I consider it is the quality of life in the economic sense, and not a macroeconomic indicator of economic power. Although I have a MBA degree, I still have not forgotten ..
                1. askme
                  askme 23 March 2018 18: 42
                  0
                  Well, these are your problems. Here, in the context of the topic, in the context of military-technological power, exactly what I wrote is true. Because for high technologies, for the level of their development, the general mass is important, the size of the country's market is important. And not individual indicators of GDP.
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 23 March 2018 18: 48
                    +1
                    Maybe. Just remember, an economically powerful power can draw many prototypes. And to pull the series you need economic efficiency. But in any case, it was nice to talk, and so, we will remain with our opinion.
                    1. askme
                      askme 23 March 2018 18: 54
                      +1
                      I’m telling you exactly the same thing. And in the case of military equipment, it is not economic efficiency that matters, but the ratio of the combat effectiveness of the weapon / price of the series. And the more GDP of the country's PPP, the more purely economic resources for the development of the military-industrial complex. A GDP on PPS for 1 person. it gives absolutely nothing in the context of the scale of the economy, the resources of the economy.

                      And you don’t get sick :)
                      1. Korax71
                        Korax71 24 March 2018 07: 24
                        0
                        Hello to you, comrade professional laughing according to your logic, it turns out that 80 million people produce the same amount as 140 million people. As a result, economies are almost equal in capabilities. It’s not funny at all, professional. It's not even the level of knowledge of the economy of a vocational school. I wrote Russian in white as your buying ability is being calculated, and it’s not clear which ears are drawn.
                2. Conserp
                  Conserp 23 March 2018 23: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Shahno
                  I consider quality of life in the economic sense ...

                  ---
                  U.S.:
                  20% of the population own 85% of wealth (oligarchs)
                  20% - 11% wealth (middle class)
                  60% - 4% of wealth (rogue)
                  ---
                  Russia:
                  20% - 47% wealth
                  20% - 23%
                  60% - 30%
                  ---
                  The United States has $ 57 thousand. GDP PPP NDN, Russia - somewhere around $ 26 thousand.

                  Throw out the quintile of the oligarchs and other "inhabitants of the ruble" with excess profits. Compare the remaining. Share of GDP per person:
                  ---
                  "Middle class"
                  - USA - $ 6.3 thousand
                  - Russia - $ 6 thousand
                  ---
                  "Electorate"
                  - USA - $ 760
                  - Russia - $ 2.6 thousand
                  ---
                  Ltd. So where did the United States get so many homeless people on the streets, whole cities of drug addicts, prisons are crammed to the top and there are always some riots.

                  It turns out that an average citizen in Russia is on average richer (by PPP GDP) than an ordinary American by three and a half times.

                  It should be borne in mind that in Russia, without a warm apartment and high-calorie eating 8 months a year, you can simply die. Therefore, there is still a lot of overhead. And in the USA, the climate is wonderful.

                  It should also be remembered that the United States has a large chunk of GDP - exchange bubbles, and half of all consumption has been in debt for half a century.
                  1. Conserp
                    Conserp 23 March 2018 23: 56
                    +2
                    Due to senility and stupid ban on editing, there was a small mistake.

                    The numbers in comparing the runway shares should be multiplied by 5 (since the sum was divided by 5 quintiles).

                    Fundamentally, this does not change anything, since the ratio remains the same, but still a person generates 5 times more than the indicated amounts per year:
                    ---
                    "Middle class"
                    - USA - $ 31.5 thousand
                    - Russia - $ 30 thousand
                    ---
                    "Electorate"
                    - USA - $ 3.8 thousand
                    - Russia - $ 13 thousand
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp 24 March 2018 00: 47
                      +2
                      I will explain just in case the essence of these calculations.

                      GDP per capita, that is, average per person, is like the average temperature in a hospital.

                      In the USA, the average per capita GDP is $ 57 thousand.

                      If you take a sample of five Americans - one oligarch, one from the middle class and three proletarians, then all together will have 57 x 5 = $ 285 thousand.
                      Moreover, their share in this amount will be as follows:
                      oligarch - 85% = $ 242.3 thousand
                      middle peasant - 11% = $ 31.3 thousand
                      three ordinary citizens - all together 4%, that is, $ 3.8 thousand for each.

                      ---

                      By the way, one can similarly show that a typical USSR citizen during the stagnation period lived significantly better than half of the US population.
          2. Korax71
            Korax71 23 March 2018 19: 43
            -1
            In my opinion, we have a misunderstanding here. Yes, Russia is on the 6th place in the global rating, by PP, but we look at the GDP on PPP per capita and we get the 50th place, Germany 18.Next, at the exchange rate, the calculation of GDP: Russia-12th place, Germany -4. VVP on PPP is under the assumption that in different countries there is an identical set of goods and services. The amount of dollars to buy this kit in the USA is displayed per standard. Further, all currencies are converted at a different rate. If you bought 10 burgers for $ 3 in the USA, and $ 2 for three burgers in the Russian Federation, then PPP GDP is considered to be $ 2 in rubles (about 130 rubles now) = $ 10, i.e. 13p = 1 US dollar. At this rate, the GDP of the Russian Federation is recounted - the "exact description of the level of economic development and economic growth" is called. Once again, GDP on PPP is so abstract that it does not reflect everything. GDP on PPP per capita reflects macroeconomic factors much more fully, although it’s also not the last resort. If you want an argument, it leads GDP in terms of world currency. I don’t know how to explain it anymore. I can pull on the digital sign and show that everything can be frightening, but only often these numbers don’t show the real state of affairs. Have you ever wondered why they don’t use other data? you can hang about the change, although in fact a complete zrada.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Conserp
              Conserp 23 March 2018 23: 58
              +1
              Above, I have clearly shown how to correctly calculate the GDP per person and who actually has a zrad.
              1. Korax71
                Korax71 24 March 2018 07: 08
                -1
                You should work in Rosstat. From where 60% of rogues are in the USA. By what criteria did you consider this? Percentage of the middle class in the USA is about 40-50% depending on the calculation methods. Do you come up with the numbers themselves? ?
                1. Conserp
                  Conserp 24 March 2018 09: 53
                  0
                  You should at least finish school first - you may be able to understand what I wrote.

                  45 million Americans get food on the cards, by the way.
                  1. Korax71
                    Korax71 24 March 2018 13: 48
                    0
                    And ???? then what? We also have 20 million below the poverty line. Let's compare where they have the line and where we have? I just wondered where the digits are taken from? I hope not from the baldy. You two are smart here. I’ve been tortured to explain, what is the amount that GDP on PPP almost from the lantern taken. Well, even at the level of the kindergarten, I figured out how this your PPS is considered and still you are dancing from it.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. Mengad
    Mengad 23 March 2018 16: 17
    +1
    Quote: askme
    Another troll rode up ... Russia's GDP at PPP (purchasing power parity), i.e. according to the real value in real prices, Russia has almost equal to the GDP at the PPP of Germany. For a very long time on this indicator, these countries share fifth and sixth places, changing places. So relax along with all of your friendly and diverse company of trolls in VO, extremely well-educated reading groups of different audiences ... South Korea appears in a completely different weight category, like most other countries in the world.

    During the war, everyone will run around shopping and make purchases laughing PPP is important laughing Maybe GDP is still important? laughing Before frightening the world with a club (Recent speech at the Federal Assembly), he might think about what we can produce and whether there will be enough production capacities? Not?
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 23 March 2018 16: 21
      +5
      Quote: Mengad
      Not?

      Before teaching the President what to speak to him, maybe it is worth expanding your horizons slightly?
      Quote: Mengad
      Roofer, experience over 18 years

      This ... will not be enough request
    2. Conserp
      Conserp 24 March 2018 00: 05
      +1
      You do not understand the meaning of the concept of GDP?

      One such (typical American) once assured me that the US economy is cooler than the Russian economy because the dollar is more expensive than the ruble laughing

      Eh, I had to tell him that a meter is longer than a foot to break his psyche ...
  34. Mengad
    Mengad 23 March 2018 16: 26
    0
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Before teaching the President what to speak to him, maybe it is worth expanding your horizons slightly?

    How so? And who said: Are you criticizing? laughing And what does my horizons have to do with it? With my horizons, everything is fine with me. Well, what about the experience? So everything is still ahead)) But everything is stable wink
  35. Radikal
    Radikal 23 March 2018 16: 34
    0
    Quote: Cormorants
    And most importantly, some of them are already in parts)))

    In your part? wink
  36. Essex62
    Essex62 23 March 2018 16: 38
    +2
    Quote: meandr51
    This man has already shown that in the military field his words do not diverge: Chechnya, Syria, rearmament and increasing the combat effectiveness of the army. There are no other such "people" in the world.
    And for the cartoons that you like - in Hollywood.

    Then one member of the forum once said that they have electricity in the village, with a population of one and a half thousand people, twice a day. The substitute is probably the evil liberal pro-Western? Well, or the king, who has proved everything, does not know. Boyars do not report scum. The power of the state is the well-being of its citizens. EVERYONE, as it was in the USSR.
  37. moreanda
    moreanda 23 March 2018 16: 41
    0
    Sorry, MONEY is LITTLE! And then we DROWN them ALL (!!!).
    By talents we are worse than anyone. BUT few US - 2% of the total humanity. And the money we constantly steal!
    Nevertheless, TIGHT (!!) ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN THE FIELD OF THEFT AND CORRUPTION - THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS.
    Then we’ll make “Vanguards” and “Barguzinov” and something more INTERESTING (and it will fly UPPER)!
    ALL MONEY - IN CASES! All treasuries - on MAGADAN!

    A. Morev
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. flicker
    flicker 23 March 2018 19: 59
    +1
    And it is interesting that?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 25 March 2018 16: 53
      0
      It was an ICBM.
      1. flicker
        flicker 25 March 2018 18: 54
        +1
        It was an ICBM.
        Very similar, compare

        If that: Flight Scheme ICBM "Sineva"
  40. Old26
    Old26 23 March 2018 20: 12
    +2
    Quote: Photon
    And by the way, why exactly 3000 K? And why at heights from 0 to 5 km? It seems that 5 km will be overcome much faster than in 10 seconds. And how will the temperature change during a dive? Did you count it yourself? Or did the Dagger developers tell you?

    5 km, however, does not mean the linear distance that the weapon must pass, but the height. It can be assumed that the figure of 5-10 km is named due to the fact that movement at certain speeds in dense layers of the atmosphere was voiced in the same videos. And this is just about those 5-10 km. I will not say anything about temperatures in numbers. but note that many supersonic objects have much lower speeds at low altitudes than at large. If a KR of the Granite type has a marching speed of 14 km, a speed of 2,5 M or even a little more, but at low altitudes, for example 1 km, its speed is no more than 2M. One of the options of the "Caliber" has a supersonic stage, which begins to work at a distance of 20 km, accelerating the stage to 2,9M. But why does it start to work at a distance of 20 km when the GOS captures a target at a distance of 40-50 km? The answer is simple. A step going at an altitude of 5-10 meters from the water at a speed of 2,9 M after a short time begins to come to a state where her head ceases to function due to excessive heating. Nobody canceled friction. Now imagine that if you believe in what the President has voiced to us and the “product” goes in dense layers not even at a speed of 2,9M, that is, almost at a speed of 1 km / s, as in my example, but at a speed at 10M, i.e. 3.4 km / s. What will be the heating of the case, will it withstand the material and so on. There are a lot of questions and there are vague doubts about the parameters that were voiced. There are no miracles and physics has not become an alternative ...

    Quote: SETTGF
    Respected! You are wrong about the "Dagger", you all do not take into account the free fall acceleration of 9,8 m / s2 ... the speed of the Dagger rocket when it hits the target will be at least 10M !!! This is physics!

    Do you consider friction? Judging by your logic, ballistic missile warheads entering the atmosphere at a speed of 25M due to the acceleration of gravity should still accelerate and come to the ground already at a speed of 30M. But no. Their speed drops to supersonic. And then she stops walking in a cloud of plasma ...

    Quote: askme
    Articles like this one are articles of bailers of modern Russian weapons. ABOUT

    And where did you find oohaying in this article? The author expressed his doubts. He has them, there are many techies. For example, I also have doubts about the “Dagger” and about the same “Status”. But I can reasonably express my doubts, without saying that all these weapons, Soviet or Russian, are bullshit.
    Do not blame others for their opinions. And different from the opinions of others. If on the resource, one of the "writers" begins to fantasize and speak to the person who flew the same MIG-31. that this car with a multi-ton “Dagger” will go to the ceiling almost 20-25 km at a speed of 3M, that this person needs to applaud, because he talks about this weapon exclusively in sublime positive tones. But this tone has nothing to do with realities. So in the article. Questions have been raised, and raised quite correctly, without denying anything and everything. What is the cooling of our technology ??

    Quote: V. Ushakov
    Hats - not needed (out of fashion).
    Enough 3 - 4 x 50MT for the States, 4 x 50MT for Europe, 1 x 50MT for Australia and the German-speaking civilization will be erased.
    These Mt can be delivered there in every possible way, even on horseback ... hi

    These 50-mt charges are exactly those caps. which throw. Even the “Voivode” could not deliver a 25 mt unit, it did not fit either in weight or in dimensions. And you already talk about 50 MT. Thanks at least not about 100 MT

    Quote: Ingvar0401
    If my memory serves me right, then the MiG-31 has several world records in speed and height in the zagashnik ...

    You are absolutely right. But records are most often a specially prepared aircraft without a “payload”. And with the load, he set records, but the EMNIP for such cases, the load is something weighing 1 ton, aerodynamically "licked". Then it really can reach speeds of 3M and heights of 25 km. But a combat aircraft with suspension is not a record. It has limitations, in particular in terms of speed ...
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 23 March 2018 20: 46
      -1
      good excellent comment. I want to add, but nowhere to go hi one drawback - the commentary after it is useless to breed drinks
    2. SETTGF
      SETTGF 23 March 2018 21: 47
      0
      Respected! You do not take into account, among other things, the aerodynamic shape of the Dagger rocket ... And besides everything, the rocket with a speed of 3M, in your opinion, can easily be knocked down by promising and other means of air defense, but you cannot shoot down the Dagger, which means that the hypersonic speed is more than 5M or 6000 km / h ...
      1. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte 23 March 2018 22: 29
        0
        Quote: SETTGF
        however, they cannot shoot down a dagger, which means that the hypersonic speed is more than 5M or 6000 km / h ...

        Ballistic missile warheads have a speed of 20M. And missile defense knocks them.
        1. SETTGF
          SETTGF 23 March 2018 22: 47
          0
          You are not right! "Maneuvering" warheads at a speed of 20M does not shoot down missile defense ...
          1. askme
            askme 23 March 2018 23: 30
            0
            Knocks down. He says so in the training manual))) There are half of VOs of such "iksperds". And now they don’t deliver gas to the horse, Mosk freezes. All power remains only on the fake proxy IP address ...
  41. war777
    war777 23 March 2018 20: 57
    +2
    And here the "hypersound" is clear that at different heights the Mach number is different! and what follows from this? the rocket flies 3,5 km / s. - what's this? “Hyper” or “not hyper”)) even if this speed is at an altitude of 40km. all the same, this flight speed is considered hypersonic, which means this aircraft is called hypersonic aircraft, so what was said incorrectly? Before you print these amateurish notes, you should understand this topic a little.)
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 23 March 2018 21: 11
      0
      Hypersound. Stable aerodynamic flight in the Earth’s atmosphere, at its surface at levels above 4 max at local points.
      1. askme
        askme 23 March 2018 21: 42
        0
        Not. Hypersound is such a high-speed characteristic of an object that is associated with the ionization of the air around it. Those. a prerequisite for hypersonic speed is the formation of plasma around the object (on its surface, locally or around the entire object). Typically, ionization of the oncoming air flow begins at a speed of 5M. At least 4,5M. Less is supersonic. In a vacuum hypersound - no at any speed, no sound.
    2. askme
      askme 23 March 2018 21: 17
      0
      Absolutely.
  42. igren
    igren 23 March 2018 21: 53
    0
    Demogogy.
  43. flicker
    flicker 23 March 2018 22: 06
    +3
    But we, to be honest, are not ahead of anyone for decades.
    So, ANYONE?
    If someone catches up with us, it’s only China, and the MERINS are all hoofed in the race of hypersonic weapons. There is a factor that is extremely important in the creation of such weapons and which the geldings do not have.
    The author’s desire to nullify our technological breakthrough in the field of hypersound is clear (they say this is not hypersound), but all these moans look more like helpless attempts than objective arguments.
  44. Old26
    Old26 23 March 2018 22: 47
    +1
    Quote: SETTGF
    Respected! You do not take into account, among other things, the aerodynamic shape of the Dagger ....


    Sorry, but the usual distortion and emphasis are underway. The aerodynamic shape of the Kindala is close to the aerodynamic shape of the Iskander. And for some reason, the "Iskander" at a maximum speed of 2,1 km / s or a little more than 6M is slowed down in the target area, that is, "at zero" to a speed of 700-800 m / s. but "Dagger" with the same aerodynamic shape should maintain a speed of 10M? Why's that. They have the same scheme of work. Maximum speed only at the time of engine shutdown. Further, aerodynamic drag comes into play, especially when it drops from heights of 70-80 to at least 15-20.

    Quote: SETTGF
    And besides all, a missile with a speed of 3M in your opinion - easily gets off with promising and other means of air defense.

    And I wrote somewhere that she easily gets off? It’s not worth giving out your thoughts as mine. And the fact that a target traveling at a speed of 3M can be brought down by a missile (anti-aircraft or anti-missile), traveling at a speed of 6M - is that unrealistic? It will hit and even not only on the oncoming or oncoming intersecting courses, but also on the catch-up.

    Quote: SETTGF
    however, they cannot shoot down a dagger, which means that the hypersonic speed is more than 5M or 6000 km / h ...

    Where does the conclusion come from: what, were there attempts to knock her down in trials? Now there is not even an experimental combat duty, but military trials. Or do you make your conclusion on that three-second clip when the rocket is reset, the tail fairing is reset and the engine starts to work? After all, everything further is a MULTIC, which has absolutely nothing to do with the real "product" and its flight modes

    Quote: war777
    And here the "hypersound" is clear that at different heights the Mach number is different! and what follows from this? the rocket flies 3,5 km / s. - what's this? “Hyper” or “not hyper”)) even if this speed is at an altitude of 40km. all the same, this flight speed is considered hypersonic, which means this aircraft is called hypersonic aircraft, so what was said incorrectly? Before you print these amateurish notes, you should understand this topic a little.)

    If you carefully read the article, you might notice that the author is not talking about the fact that the product does not have hypersound. And the fact that it is not a hypersonic weapon. Here a hypersonic weapon can be one that flies at a hypersonic speed (constant) for a sufficiently long period of time or a segment of a path. "Dagger" having hypersonic speed is not essentially a hypersonic weapon. Zircon is. And here are situations where hypersonic speeds are reached by a weapon, but after that, due to the most commonplace resistance of the medium, the speed starts to fall and can reach supersonic - this is essentially not a hypersonic weapon. We do not call the Iskander a hypersonic missile? Or "Poplar" for example. here is the same situation. This is especially true for "Poplar". He blocks move with speeds of more than 20M, and then their speed drops to supersonic. But this does not make him a hypersonic weapon. And here is our Zircon, I repeat once again, the American X-42A and X-51 - they are hypersonic. Although they have different acceleration means
    1. NN52
      NN52 23 March 2018 23: 20
      +2
      Old26

      Zircon is ....
      Let's not jinx her ...
      We know little about Zircon ...
    2. askme
      askme 23 March 2018 23: 38
      +1
      And here are situations where hypersonic speeds are reached by a weapon, but after that, due to the most commonplace resistance of the medium, the speed starts to fall and can reach supersonic - this is essentially not a hypersonic weapon.
      In the case of the "Dagger" you do not know. The dagger is declared by the President and the Defense Ministry as a hypersonic weapon. Therefore, it is a rocket flying in hypersound. The rest is your speculation. Like the author of this topic. At the same time, on the basis of his fantasies, he makes demagogic conclusions that there are supposedly no revolutionary achievements in the development of hypersound in the Russian Federation. Along the way, trashing the well-known systems of Granite and Volcano, calling them not supersonic, and on this "basis" extends this rotten action to the Dagger and Vanguard ....

      You support this with your speculation. Your right. But this is just your speculation and nothing more. Whatever you write about it, not based on data on the “Dagger”, which are extremely scarce in the public domain for obvious reasons.

      And, by the way, the Dagger is on pilot combat duty. This was stated by the President.
    3. SETTGF
      SETTGF 24 March 2018 00: 37
      0
      Old! Read more attentively! This I said that a rocket with a speed of 3M, as you suggested, is easy to shoot down! The aerodynamic shape of the Dagger only resembles the shape of Iskander, but in fact there is a big difference and the video presented distorts this shape - look carefully ...
      1. SETTGF
        SETTGF 24 March 2018 00: 41
        0
        The form is hidden from us - this form does not reflect the real, but rather distorts ...
  45. Conserp
    Conserp 23 March 2018 22: 58
    +1
    Launched from a high-altitude supersonic interceptor MiG-31, the Dagger complex is an aeroballistic missile. That is, as the name implies, this is a ballistic missile launched from an airplane.

    The same illiterate theses as the “Masked Boy”. They have a nest there!(C)

    It is launched from an airplane - "aviation".

    "Aeroballistic" is about aerodynamic control in flight.
  46. Sergey_I
    Sergey_I 23 March 2018 23: 26
    0
    Very sensibly stated.
    And rightly so.
    1. Conserp
      Conserp 23 March 2018 23: 59
      +2
      How can trivial illiterate speculations with obvious errors be “sensible and correct”?
      1. askme
        askme 24 March 2018 00: 15
        0
        And so: some half-fool Rodchenkov scammed for those who hate Russia, he is the ultimate truth. Some scumbags organized a provocation against Russia, poisoning Skripale, "with a high degree of probability" calling Russia guilty in this case, respectively, those who wish Russia evil believe that these accusatory speculations without real facts are the last resort and therefore begin to poison isolate Russia.

        You see, hatred needs only an excuse. Reason in this case behaves like a corrupt girl - it will "justify" any nonsense .. Blind faith is enough for hatred. This is the essence of fanatics. Zealots believe in someone’s speculation, based on their phobias, believing in them. This is enough for them to insinuate. Likewise, for those who hate the President, only someone’s speculation is enough to support frank balcony, not based on reliable facts, for them to persecute the object of their hatred is a pleasure ... Knowledge and fanaticism are different ... These are two different worlds of consciousness ....
        1. NN52
          NN52 24 March 2018 01: 10
          +2
          Well, you don’t need to speak sharply, this is not a political topic ...
          And even more so, attract Rodchenkov and others here by the ears ...
          You just look on the site for topics about the Dagger, there are many, read and comprehend ... And somewhere in the middle will be true ....
          And the realities about the Dagger, we will not know soon ..
  47. Alexander Yesipov
    Alexander Yesipov 24 March 2018 03: 44
    +2
    Tired of the cries of couch analysts. Another thing is important. Test Report! And who read them? Viktor Kuzovkov definitely did not read! But I really tried to get at least something about the hypersuper from the talkers!
  48. Old26
    Old26 24 March 2018 18: 31
    +3
    Quote: askme
    In the case of the "Dagger" you do not know. The dagger is declared by the President and the Defense Ministry as a hypersonic weapon. Therefore, it is a rocket flying in hypersound. .

    As it turns out everything is simple !!! It is necessary with a devoted look and with puppy delight only to declare - THE PRESIDENT SAID (STATED) (or the Minister of Defense said, or the Deputy Minister of Defense said, or the Minister of Foreign Affairs said, or the spokesman for the Foreign Ministry said (a)) - that’s all.
    Away all doubts. This becomes the ultimate truth. Neither experience nor knowledge is needed, you do not even need to have an opinion - if it differs from that which was voiced by someone from those above. And that’s all. It's enough....

    Quote: askme
    Therefore, it is a rocket flying in hypersound. The rest is your speculation. Like the author of this topic. .

    But how then to explain the discrepancy between what the President said with the realities? He stated that no one has hypersonic weapons. How does this correlate with the fact that the Americans have been armed with hypersonic weapons for almost 60 years? After all, their missiles also fly in hypersound, which means it is a hypersonic weapon. Schematically, there is no difference between the Russian “Dagger” and the American missile. How this discrepancy can explain. And do Americans have hypersonic weapons or not ???

    Quote: askme
    Moreover, on the basis of his fantasies, he draws demagogic conclusions that there are supposedly no revolutionary achievements in the development of hypersound in the Russian Federation ..

    Do they have any? Sound then. What is the revolutionary achievement of the “Dagger", Not only in general terms, but in concrete terms. For example, ......... is a revolutionary achievement. And now ............ - is also a revolutionary achievement ....

    Quote: askme
    You support this with your speculation. Your right. But this is just your speculation and nothing more. Whatever you write, not based on data on the "Dagger", which are extremely few in the public domain for obvious reasons ..

    Well, at least I have “my own conjectures”, which are voiced. And your maxims revolve around "you are all lying and slandering, and the President said." And he is a man. And this was primarily a political statement. Others prepared the technical details for him, and not the fact that they were true ... It was necessary to give the people another "victory" - it was given. Then, for three weeks, the people took up socially useful work. I was thinking about what name to give this or that type of weapon. They didn’t talk about anything else ...

    Quote: askme
    And, by the way, the Dagger is on pilot combat duty. This was stated by the President.

    Well, of course. The president said ... But the fact that combat duty, as well as pilot combat is carried out by regular formations, at regular places of deployment, is there a difference, sometimes there are "crafts" at the HBS - haven't you heard? And here, at a certain military airfield of the Southern Military District, two fighters, assigned to a completely different military unit, carry out flights, discharges, launches - do you consider this to be combat combat? On HBS, as on the database, these compounds READY TO FULFILL tasks assigned to him, and not to work off take-off and landing, application at the training ground and testing equipment. This is all done on military trials. But you don’t care. THE PRESIDENT SAID, what is it EXPERIENCE AND BATTLE DUTY

    Quote: Snakebyte
    Quote: SETTGF
    however, they cannot shoot down a dagger, which means that the hypersonic speed is more than 5M or 6000 km / h ...

    Ballistic missile warheads have a speed of 20M. And missile defense knocks them.

    There are more. Nor are they unbreakable

    Quote: Conserp
    "Aeroballistic" is about aerodynamic control in flight.

    In general, it’s very easy and relaxed for us to use terms. And often at all levels. All international treaties have a list of agreed terms to avoid misunderstandings. And according to these terms, aeroballistic refers to an air-to-ground ballistic missile. After uncoupling and launching, the rocket begins to gain altitude, flying along a ballistic trajectory

    If you use your tractor, then how can you determine which missile is “aeroballistic” and which is ballistic. After all, aerodynamic control in flight implies the presence of control planes.

    We have developed three complexes. In fact, each "flowed" from the previous one. There was the Uranus complex, the Oka complex, and finally the Iskander complex. Three rockets are essentially twins. On the Iskander, gas steering wheels and aerodynamic surfaces serve as control mechanisms. The missile has an inseparable warhead and at the last stage of the flight, within certain limits, can control the aerodynamic rudders
    There are no aerodynamic rudders on the Oka, as on the Iskander. There are also gas rudders and trellised rudders. But at the same time, the rocket has a detachable warhead, which is separated after 70 seconds of flight and there are no rudders on it. The third missile, Uranus, also has an inseparable warhead, and at different stages gas controls, gas steering wheels, a universal joint gimbal and a separate pitch control nozzle and finally rotary nozzles were used as controls. Three missiles with very similar characteristics, very similar in appearance. Which one is aeroballistic then
    1. askme
      askme 24 March 2018 19: 36
      +1
      Listen, if you support the “analytega”, which firmly believes that Granite and Vulcan are not supersonic anti-ship missiles, your level is clear initially. If you are deaf and blind so much that you have not heard the President’s words in the Address that Russia has mastered carbon composites for the construction of CONTROLLED hypersonic devices for temperatures of 1500-2000 degrees for a long time, what should I talk about with you? If you pretend to be nonsense, as if the Yankees had long mastered hypersonic technologies at 10-20M, YET ALSO ROCKETS, i.e. in your opinion, the Yankees can withstand 1500-2000С - if you believe in all this, what should I talk to you about? Then you are just an impudent trollin, considering your erudition in rocket affairs. It’s hard to call you just a banal boob as an author.

      Or imagine a special kind of people who have brains floating out of hatred and they are ready to make nonsense only because of their hatred. For example, to the President.

      I represent a different category of people. They are capable of respectfully treating leadership teams - from the President to the leaders of the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex, who have proved, using the example of Syria, that Russia has developed the highest level of military equipment. And I can respect that.

      Well, how to respect trolls if they do not respect themselves ... It's complicated ...

      The rest:
      Thus, in the Address of the President there are answers to all reasonable questions. What technologies (some of them) allowed to make a breakthrough. In the world, except for Russia, there are no such structural materials that are able to maintain their structure in a layer of high-temperature plasma of 1500-2000 degrees. But in Russia they are. Someone may say that the ablation defense used in rocket science is such a structural material. But this is not so, since, firstly, it is a consumable (which burns out in the atmosphere), and, secondly, it does not make it possible to actively maneuver precisely at hypersonic speed and only a very short time, minutes, is used. Whereas for the full development of hypersound, the structural material must withstand thermal loads for tens of minutes at least and at the same time not burn out, not burn out. The materials used for abelion protection in rocket science are not suitable for this. Shuttle ceramics are also not suitable.

      So there is an obvious breakthrough in Russia. Well, to wait for a detailed report from the military about all applied technologies, and even with technological maps of production processes (the next level of insane demands of trolls) - this is an obvious polemic troll. It is clear that such things are state secrets. And troll occupation is speculation on fantasies ...

      It is important that both the Dagger and the Vanguard are precisely hypersonic devices, i.e. those that fly in the atmosphere for a long time, while actively maneuvering in the plasma cloud, i.e. in an environment where completely different properties in terms of flight control and other thermal loads. At speeds of 10-20M.

      And here you are telling tales as if the Yankees are flying in hypersound, i.e. in the atmosphere at speeds of 10-20M intensively maneuver for tens of minutes. Arrogant you are liars. They have no such apparatuses, let alone such missiles. And now Russia has it.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 25 March 2018 16: 56
        0
        "In the world, except for Russia, there are no such structural materials that are capable of maintaining their structure in a layer of high-temperature plasma of 1500-2000 degrees." - They are full, starting from Molybdenum 2890 degrees, ending with carbon fiber 5000 degrees.
        1. askme
          askme 25 March 2018 17: 25
          +1
          Stupidity. You do not understand what you are reasoning about.
          Firstly, molybdenum is a soft metal, so, roughly speaking, it bends, although it does not melt, is refractory. Roughly speaking, at high temperatures it is an amorphous plasticine, it does not retain its spatial structure under load. It is very good for special heat exchangers, but not for systems where heat is removed, heat exchange is impossible ... In addition, metals, in principle, are not suitable for the shells of hypersonic devices, since they have high heat transfer into the device. The payload will simply melt. Absolutely not an option.

          Regarding carbon fibers ... Those that are known do not have the ability to withstand the pressures and temperatures of the medium that arise during the flight of hypersonic devices. They are "led", they somehow burn out in combination with environmental pressures, and are destroyed.

          If everything were so simple, the Yankees would have mastered hypersound long ago, just like us. And the Shuttles would be sheathed with completely different materials, rather than ceramic tiles, the problem of which is thermal expansion and high mass.
    2. Conserp
      Conserp 24 March 2018 19: 47
      0
      Quote: Old26
      All international treaties have a list of agreed terms to avoid misunderstandings. And according to these terms, aeroballistic refers to an air-to-ground ballistic missile.

      Can you name a specific agreement with this term in the appendix?

      For the term “aeroballistic missile” is used to refer to a number of types of land and sea-based missiles, and for missiles launched from an airplane, the terms “aircraft missile” and “air-based missile” are used.

      At the same time, a number of types are designated as "aviation aeroballistic missile" - which, in your opinion, is a stupid tautology.
  49. Old26
    Old26 24 March 2018 22: 48
    +3
    Quote: askme
    Listen, if you support the “analytega”, which firmly believes that Granite and Vulcan are not supersonic anti-ship missiles, your level is clear initially.

    Indicate where I said that I fully support what he said. Including the Granite / Volcano. Otherwise, you have to consider you a trepak

    Quote: askme
    If you are deaf and blind so much that you have not heard the President’s words in the Address that Russia has mastered carbon composites for the construction of CONTROLLED hypersonic devices for temperatures of 1500-2000 degrees for a long time, what should I talk about with you? .

    Carbon composites were mastered by the Soviet Union. And certain complexes had a “cocoon” -type case obtained by winding such composites. Name the company where they did it and the company that created the control system for such machines ???
    Planning block "Albatross" from what you think was made ?? Or block 15F178? The design of the apparatus (controlled) is currently going on hypersound 3-5 minutes, no more. Did not have NO TESTwhere such a controlled unit would fly "for a long time" in supersonic. So leave a "long time" for journalists from the media ..

    Quote: askme
    If you give out nonsense for the truth, as if the Yankees had long mastered hypersonic technologies at 10-20M, YET ALSO ROCKETS, i.e. in your opinion, the Yankees can withstand 1500-2000С - if you believe in all this, what should I talk to you about? .

    Of course they do. The warheads of their ICBMs and SLBMs are hypersonic weapons (you consider a “dagger” ballistic missile a hypersonic weapon), then why American missiles cannot be considered as such. They fly and do not burn. Moreover, there were tests of analogues of our Vanguard, He quite successful, but they reached speeds of 20M. There were tests of really hypersonic devices with a ramjet, ready to keep speed in particular at 11M (X-43A) throughout the flight. Unlike the "Dagger", which burns a charge of fuel for about 70 seconds and the rest of the time flies gradually slowing down to supersonic speed. It’s a pity that you don’t want to understand such an elementary thing. And just believe what you were told from the TV screen, even the President

    Quote: askme
    Or imagine a special kind of people who have brains floating out of hatred and they are ready to make nonsense only because of their hatred. For example, to the President.

    Be careful with sticking labels. I respect the President enough. In some of his affairs I am completely on his side, but some of his affairs do not suit me at all. And I'm not afraid to talk about it. I speak about this quite calmly. Being a "gray mass" who believes everything she was told is not for me. It looks like your lot.
  50. Old26
    Old26 24 March 2018 23: 03
    +3
    MORE

    Quote: askme
    I represent a different category of people. They are capable of respectfully treating leadership teams - from the President to the leaders of the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex, who have proved, using the example of Syria, that Russia has developed the highest level of military equipment. And I can respect that.

    Simply put, without all these evasions that I respect - I do not respect. For you, any leader is the ultimate truth, even if he carries a blizzard. So say that it’s important to you what they told you, and not how reliable it is. And to secure the right to “respect” and to think at the same time that others who express disagreement “do not respect” - well, everything is clear here.

    We have many storytellers both in the Moscow Region and among those who had previously wore epaulets with big stars, and now have hit politics. From them you can hear such nonsense that the hair stands on end. In particular, from Deputy Minister of Defense Borisov. So that? Believe his delirium and believe that this is the holy truth ??? Or the statements by the deputy chief of the GOU GSH that the American interceptors will hit our missiles in 180 seconds? Not only will the rocket cease to exist earlier, but the ball, by the way, is round and you still need to get to it. But TTX missiles are fortunately not like that ... Believe? After all they are leaders including and MO??

    Quote: askme
    Thus, in the Address of the President there are answers to all reasonable questions. What technologies (some of them) allowed to make a breakthrough. In the world, except for Russia, there are no such structural materials that are able to maintain their structure in a layer of high-temperature plasma of 1500-2000 degrees. But in Russia they are.

    Blessed is he who believes. To do this, at least you need to know about the programs of other countries in order to draw such phenomenal conclusions ..

    Quote: askme
    Someone may say that the ablation defense used in rocket science is such a structural material. But this is not so, since, firstly, it is a consumable (which burns out in the atmosphere), and, secondly, it does not make it possible to actively maneuver precisely at hypersonic speed and only a very short time, minutes, is used. Whereas for the full development of hypersound, the structural material must withstand thermal loads for tens of minutes at least and at the same time not burn out, not burn out. The materials used for abelion protection in rocket science are not suitable for this. Shuttle ceramics are also not suitable ..

    And what did the Americans use ten years ago on their X-43A and recently on the X-51 ???
    That is, you do not know what anyone is applying to conclude that we have it, but they don’t have it. “We have such devices, such devices, but they are secret and we won’t tell about them”. I will repeat my question. What materials were used on the Albatross, on the 102nd product, on the 178th and which on similar American samples. And after that, begin to say what anyone has ...

    Quote: askme
    So there is an obvious breakthrough in Russia. Well, to wait for a detailed report from the military about all applied technologies, and even with technological maps of production processes (the next level of insane demands of trolls) - this is an obvious polemic troll. It is clear that such things are state secrets. And troll occupation is speculation on fantasies ...

    And who does this require? Technologies are often a really closed topic, but the name of the materials is a completely open name, which is found in all design documents along with secret indexes. And do not distort. Nobody needs to provide shopping mall. And to close all the "state" reception just for people like you, dear
    "We have, but secretly, not say"

    Quote: askme
    It is important that both the Dagger and the Vanguard are precisely hypersonic devices, i.e. those that fly in the atmosphere for a long time, while actively maneuvering in the plasma cloud, i.e. in an environment where completely different properties in terms of flight control and other thermal loads. At speeds of 10-20M.

    And here you are telling tales as if the Yankees are flying in hypersound, i.e. in the atmosphere at speeds of 10-20M intensively maneuver for tens of minutes. Arrogant you are liars. They have no such apparatuses, let alone such missiles. And now Russia has it.

    I repeat again. hypersonic devices are devices capable of ALL YOUR WAY pass with hypersonic speed, and not a few minutes of flight. Hypersonic ramjet rocket. working throughout the flight is a hypersonic device. A missile that has an engine, albeit a rocket, but working until it hits the target, is a hypersonic device.
    Everything else is a weapon that can briefly have hypersonic speeds. Maneuvering intensively in a cloud of plasma - this is likely to ensure that the ammunition does not hit the target. Since the guidance system does not act on the word TOTALLY and this device can only be controlled using ANN. But at the same time, he will not fall into anything moving until the speed drops to supersonic and he turns on his guidance system. But then what the hell is he a hypersonic apparatus if he consciously starts to work only at supersonic speed?

    Quote: askme
    And here you are telling tales as if the Yankees are flying in hypersound, i.e. in the atmosphere at speeds of 10-20M intensively maneuver for tens of minutes. Arrogant you are liars. They have no such apparatuses, let alone such missiles. And now Russia has it.

    Well, everything is clear with you. What does not fit into your idea of ​​a vision of the world - it's all a blatant lie. But what the President said is holy truth. If you have vision problems, I’ll repeat it again. Look for materials on the X-43 program from the Americans and their results. And preferably not on Wikipedia, but on more serious resources ... And it is desirable to see the same material not only in English, but also in German and French. Very conducive to perception

    Quote: Conserp
    Can you name a specific agreement with this term in the appendix?

    For the term “aeroballistic missile” is used to refer to a number of types of land and sea-based missiles, and for missiles launched from an airplane, the terms “aircraft missile” and “air-based missile” are used.

    At the same time, a number of types are designated as "aviation aeroballistic missile" - which, in your opinion, is a stupid tautology.


    But not now. Tomorrow I’ll try to find this agreement, or rather annexes to it. There is simply a very large array of information, several dozens, if not hundreds of sheets, will have to rummage ..

    We use the terms quite freely and without troubles. To whom it wanders.

    A missile launched from an airplane can really be classified as aircraft rocket or air-based missile. At the place of its launch. Just like a rocket can be classified as surface-to-surface, submarine-surface, and even more options. But this is at the place of launch.
    But this is too general a classification. Many types of missiles are suitable for it - a cruise missile, one that can be considered ballistic. This is already a constructive scheme. It is necessary to consider another combination of tactical characteristics.

    For example, the same missiles with a range of 10-20 km, but not cruise ones, but flying after fuel burnout according to a conditionally ballistic curve going from the carrier to the target on the ground. That is, you can depict in the form of a parabola branch. They can in principle be called ballistic

    Aeroballistic implies somewhat different. Start from an air carrier, more precisely a reset. Stabilization in space. Then the engine turns on and the rocket begins to gain altitude, flying along the classic ballistic trajectory of a ground-based rocket. Only the apogee of its trajectory will be different from the ground based on the height of the launch point. Further, this rocket acts in exactly the same way as its ground-based counterpart. These were the type of aeroballistic missiles we and the Americans had. We have X-15, they have SRAM. WE also developed an intercontinental aeroballistic missile, which was supposed to launch from the TU-160, rise to a height of about 1300 km and go along the classical path to the target, simultaneously dispersing all 6 of its warheads. This rocket "CRACKET-R"

    In fact, it is a rocket launched from an airplane and can be aeroballistic. The use of this term to refer to certain types of land or sea missiles IMHO from the evil one. Just, I repeat, as they want, they use the terms with us.

    That is the question. What characteristics make one rocket aeroballistic, if I may say so, but not the other. What are the criteria for aeroballistic ???
    1. askme
      askme 25 March 2018 00: 10
      +1
      So, the drain is counted. In the balance:
      1. The technology that brought Russia to the lead in hypersonic technology is named by me. Based on the Message from the President. The impudent trollin reacted to this as expected, wagging: since there is no name, then I DO NOT BELIEVE official sources. The answer is typical for fanatics. But the technology requested by the troll is named. It is a carbon based material.

      Moreover, the Vanguard has already begun to produce. MO has already announced the launch of the device in a series. Nothing of the kind was and there is NOBODY. Russia has a priority in these technologies. Neither the X-51 nor the X-43 are close in speed characteristics with the Vanguard (20M), yielding more than twice. And at the same time their shell burns out. The Vanguard shell at 1500-2000С - no. Russia has a priority and an outstanding result (just the main question of this topic, I fully substantiated the position why this is so)

      2. Trollina claimed that the Yankees allegedly fly at hypersonic speeds, i.e. in the plasma cloud, and not just one minute, but dozens like Vanguard (20M, intercontinental range), did not give examples of such trollin missiles, wagging backwards to the side: giving examples of EXPERIMENTAL apparatuses (which are regularly destroyed in the process of testing ending with BURNING just because of problems with temperatures, the lining burns out, i.e. the Yankees have not mastered the coating technology, are in the process, still ...). And these devices are NOT ROCKETS. And trollina claimed that the Yankees have long had precisely hypersonic missiles and similar technologies. Obvious drain. Substitution of concepts.

      3. RCC Granite, RCC Volcano in trolls is obviously also subsonic. Obvious drain.

      The drain is counted. Tollina is fully identified.
      An attempt to justify your drain by transferring the conversation to a discussion of issues of faith is typical of PROFESSIONAL trolls.
      1. askme
        askme 25 March 2018 00: 26
        0
        And these devices are NOT ROCKETS
        I mean, they are not classic rockets with rocket engines or solid propellant rocket engines. This is a completely different class of hypersonic missiles that the Yankees have never had and never have.
        1. askme
          askme 25 March 2018 01: 01
          +1
          If we go even further, going into the issue of homing the “Dagger” at speeds of 10M, then it is appropriate to recall that S-300-S-400 missiles can reach speeds of 8M and at the same time actively homing at the target (carry out active radar on the target) and self-governing . 8M speed cannot be called supersonic. This is hypersonic speed. So there are breakthrough technologies that only Russia owns that allow homing in hypersound. And not necessarily RL-GSN ...
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 25 March 2018 17: 05
          0
          It is a missile and a missile in Africa, but the propulsion system is different: turbojet engine, ramjet, scramjet, rocket engine. And if the Dagger rocket really accelerates to 10 Machs then it is hypersonic - everything above 10 Machs to 25 Machs is called "Fast hypersound" all that is over 25 Machs - "Return speed"
          1. askme
            askme 25 March 2018 19: 43
            +1
            But no. Rocket rocket - discord. There is a big difference, for example, between a hypersonic rocket-PLAN (with wings) and a ballistic missile (blank). Classic hypersonic missiles are exactly the blanks. Very poorly controlled in the atmosphere. Maximum for several minutes when the hull simply does not have time to melt, or heat is removed from it by the abelion protection, which, by burning-evaporating, cools the deeper hull structures of such a classic hypersonic missile or launching spacecraft.

            In the case under consideration, the Vanguard and Dagger are talking about completely different solutions, when the body of a hypersonic missile / hypersonic apparatus is capable of withstanding the temperature and pressure of a hypersonic flight for tens of minutes rather than minutes. That is the trick and a colossal breakthrough. The only voiced. But far from the only one. The rest is still state secret. And thank God...