Military Review

USC: development work on the appearance of the Borey-B nuclear submarine was found to be unsatisfactory

51
The head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), Alexei Rakhmanov, said that the development work to determine the appearance of the nuclear submarines of the 955 "Borey-B" project were carried out, but they need to be redone.


USC: experimental design work on the appearance of the Borey-B nuclear submarine was recognized as unsatisfactory


I think we can come to this conversation at the end of 2018 of the year. The development work to determine the appearance of "Boreya-B" was performed last year. The conceptual project ended with an unsatisfactory economic result for us. We will return to the discussion of this issue.
- he said.

Earlier it was reported that the construction time of the nuclear submarines of the Borey-B project will become clear only after the completion of the preliminary design.

Now the Russian Navy includes three strategic nuclear submarines of the Borey type (Yuri Dolgoruky, Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh). Another five nuclear submarines of the type "Borey-A" are now under construction. The last ship of this series ("Prince Pozharsky") was laid in December 2016 of the year.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. Piramidon
    Piramidon 21 March 2018 15: 39
    +1
    Well, they would have written how Borea-B should be different from Borea-A
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 21 March 2018 15: 40
      +1
      Quote: Piramidon
      Well, they would have written how Borea-B should be different from Borea-A

      the same as Halibut from Varshavyanka
      1. maxim947
        maxim947 21 March 2018 15: 42
        +5
        The conceptual project ended with an unsatisfactory result for us on the economy. We will return to the discussion of this issue.

        Two questions:
        1. OCD closed?
        2. If closed, then who will pay for the continuation of the banquet, in terms of finalizing the materials of the OCD?
        Most likely, the MO was not satisfied with the price of the new Borey, and if the results of the OCD are negative, then there were extremely good reasons for that, in general, the USC begins to hover ...
        1. jjj
          jjj 21 March 2018 15: 55
          +5
          So about this, about the economy, they directly speak. It wouldn’t be like in the States they said all is well, but throw money. Is a real state approach beginning to prevail
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 March 2018 15: 47
      +13
      Quote: Piramidon
      Well, they would have written how Borea-B should be different from Borea-A

      Borey-B, to make it clearer to you, this is a completely different SSBN than Borey or Borey-A. The conversation is about a completely NEW submarine. And do not be fooled by the identical name of these nuclear submarines.
      I will say more, the same Ash and Ash-M are also very different multi-purpose workers and it’s impossible to say that they are twin brothers in terms of capabilities, functionality, performance characteristics.
      All this I say to the fact that the Borey-B project is secret. And it is not just different from its predecessors, Borea and Borea-A, it is a completely different submarine.
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 21 March 2018 15: 52
        +5
        Quote: NEXUS
        it is not just different from its predecessors, Borea and Borea-B, it is a completely different submarine.

        Thank. Now more or less clear. I’m never a submariner (my element is aviation), but, based on your explanations, I dare to assume that they differ, about the same as the Tu-22 from the Tu-22-M (2/3).
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 March 2018 15: 56
          +7
          Quote: Piramidon
          that they differ, roughly the same as the Tu-22 from the Tu-22-M (2/3).

          The analogy is true ... with the only amendment that the appearance of Borea-B will be different. hi
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 21 March 2018 16: 07
            +9
            Quote: NEXUS
            the appearance of Borea-B will be different.

            The 22 I listed are also not very similar. hi So, all these letters-prefixes to the main modification, as I understand it, do not say anything. It may even be intended to mislead the adversaries. But, maybe as in the case of the Tu-22, this is an opportunity to dislodge the financing of a new project, under the guise of modernizing the old.
        2. Seaman77
          Seaman77 21 March 2018 17: 23
          +10
          Quote: Piramidon
          Thank. Now more or less clear. I’m never a submariner (my element is aviation), but, based on your explanations, I dare to assume that they differ, about the same as the Tu-22 from the Tu-22-M (2/3).

          I think that I will not betray secrets if I say that the Nexus is also never a submariner. And even, never once have a sailor. repeat
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 March 2018 17: 56
            +8
            Quote: Seaman77
            I think that I will not betray secrets if I say that the Nexus is also never a submariner. And even, never once have a sailor.

            You are right. And I do not make this secret. hi
            1. Seaman77
              Seaman77 21 March 2018 18: 40
              +2
              Quote: NEXUS
              You are right. And I do not make this secret.

              hi
          2. AlexVas44
            AlexVas44 22 March 2018 06: 54
            0
            Quote: Seaman77
            Nexus is also never a submariner. And even, never once have a sailor.

            I would say that it’s never an aviator, although an avatar is like an aviator. laughing
      2. PN
        PN 21 March 2018 18: 29
        0
        You are wrong in saying that they are different.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 March 2018 18: 42
          +6
          Quote: PN
          You are wrong in saying that they are different.

          Seriously? But I'm sure that they are completely different. Otherwise, a new look, not to mention a new arsenal, electronics, etc. in general, would be out of the question. At the same time, even in the initial project, such an arsenal as Borea and Boreya-A was different -16 and 20 ICBMs, respectively. After they replayed so that on all modifications there will be 16 ICBMs, although according to Boreyu-B, there is an opinion that still there will be 20 ICBMs.
          1. PN
            PN 21 March 2018 18: 55
            +1
            I will not argue. Mystery must remain secret bully
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 21 March 2018 18: 56
              +6
              Quote: PN
              I will not argue. Mystery must remain secret bully

              Reasonable. Time will judge us. hi
      3. Charik
        Charik 21 March 2018 18: 45
        0
        Recently I read someone's comment, he writes that Ash or Yas-m can drag up to 60 kr, is this real?
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 March 2018 18: 49
          +6
          Quote: Charik
          Recently I read someone's comment, he writes that Ash or Yas-m can drag up to 60 kr, is this real?

          Ash-M will be equipped with 10 TA and 8 vertical launchers of 4 CR each, that is 32 CR. The question is, why more? There is a decision by Antey to remake Caliber, Onyx and later Zircons ... carriers can accommodate up to 72 CRs such as Onyx or Caliber.
          1. PN
            PN 21 March 2018 19: 03
            0
            In theory + X101 ...
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 21 March 2018 19: 05
              +6
              Quote: PN
              In theory + X101 ...

              It is in theory, but so far there is no such modification of the X-101.
          2. Charik
            Charik 21 March 2018 19: 04
            0
            And bk torpedoes pcs 20-30?
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 21 March 2018 19: 11
              +7
              Quote: Charik
              And bk torpedoes pcs 20-30?

              Ash carries 10 torpedo tubes with ammunition of 30 torpedoes (instead of which you can take mines with you). Such an arsenal gives a wide range of scenarios - from the formation of a multi-torpedo salvo from a detachment of warships or an escort to an underwater “duel” with two or three opponents at a time.
              At the same time, Ash-M (Kazan) is shorter than Ash by 10 meters and the living compartment is cut by 4 meters against Severodvinsk.
              1. PN
                PN 21 March 2018 21: 04
                0
                Are you sure about the number 30?
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 21 March 2018 21: 16
                  +6
                  Quote: PN
                  Are you sure about the number 30?

                  Yes, and you?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              2. annodomene
                annodomene 22 March 2018 07: 26
                +2
                Just not cut off the performance of HEU and stockpile PrV, as it was on the "Granites".
        2. Seaman77
          Seaman77 21 March 2018 19: 02
          +1
          Quote: Charik
          Recently I read someone's comment, he writes that Ash or Yas-m can drag up to 60 kr, is this real?

          Why not? As an example, the Saab A26 project for 1900 tons and 18 "axes". Although the article about the Northwind and rockets there are slightly different. wink
          https://topwar.ru/116019-shvedskaya-kompaniya-saa
          b-predstavila-submarinu-vooruzhennuyu-raketami-to
          mahawk.html
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 March 2018 22: 38
            +5
            Quote: Seaman77
            Почему нет?

            In the coming years, the upgraded Ash-trees will receive interchangeable container launchers that can accommodate either four Onyx or five more compact Caliber, which will make it possible to increase the missile ammunition to 40 units in the maximum version.

            Well, and so, of course, if you wish, you can teach the hare to smoke ...
      4. Ased
        Ased 21 March 2018 20: 33
        +1
        Once it was a big surprise for me that two ships of the same project are still not the same.
      5. tralmaster.
        tralmaster. 22 March 2018 13: 03
        0
        They are the same twins as Tu-22 and Tu-22 M-3
  2. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 21 March 2018 15: 39
    +1
    All the same, shipbuilding is still lagging behind, unlike rocket and tank building
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 21 March 2018 15: 56
      +3
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      All the same, shipbuilding is still lagging behind, unlike rocket and tank building

      The departure of the Nikolaev shipyards, all the same, had a great impact.
      1. Roma 1977
        Roma 1977 21 March 2018 16: 19
        +4
        They didn’t go anywhere, they stayed where they were. This Russia has left the Nikolaev shipyards. So that partners are pleased to do.
      2. annodomene
        annodomene 22 March 2018 07: 27
        +2
        From the point of view of submarine shipbuilding, almost nothing has changed.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. evil partisan
    evil partisan 21 March 2018 15: 55
    +1
    As they say in science: "A negative result is also a result." yes
    Not all of our designers get it right the first time. Even a submarine.
    1. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 21 March 2018 16: 20
      +1
      It is said that everything turned out. But expensive. Six months later, Rakhmanov will come again and ask about the estimate. Maybe change your mind.
      1. Mooh
        Mooh 21 March 2018 16: 41
        +1
        Six months later, they will tumble another 10 yards into the okr and it will turn out even more expensive. OCD is not production here and it is easier to steal and the result can be faked. Therefore, it is more pleasant to develop in all respects than to build, the more so to build in series.
  5. 76SSSR
    76SSSR 21 March 2018 16: 55
    +1
    In the future, the surface fleet will be significantly inferior in potential to the submarine fleet, so I believe that primacy in the submarine fleet is a paramount task.
  6. Old26
    Old26 21 March 2018 17: 05
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Borey-B, to make it clearer to you, this is a completely different SSBN than Borey or Borey-A. The conversation is about a completely NEW submarine. And do not be fooled by the identical name of these nuclear submarines.

    And how will Borey-B differ from Borea-A? Architecture? The number of SLBMs, or a new type of SLBMs. Reactor or quantity? At the level of defining a conceptual look, this is very ephemeral ...

    Quote: NEXUS
    I will say more, the same Ash and Ash-M are also very different multi-purpose workers and it’s impossible to say that they are twin brothers in terms of capabilities, functionality, performance characteristics.

    Just in terms of functionality, we can say that they are twins. Both of them are multi-purpose nuclear submarines with a certain number of units of strike weapons. But in the details, to the set of the case, in the mechanisms, equipment and other things, in reality they can significantly differ from each other
    1. 76SSSR
      76SSSR 21 March 2018 17: 22
      0
      Just the twins are identical in details, but in terms of similar functionality, they are just brothers, and relatives or cousins ​​depend on the volume of similarity.)
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 March 2018 21: 00
      +6
      Quote: Old26
      And how will Borey-B differ from Borea-A? Architecture? The number of SLBMs, or a new type of SLBMs. Reactor or quantity? At the level of defining a conceptual look, this is very ephemeral ...

      Not so ephemeral as it is obvious. Borey's head was with its shortcomings and sores, which (in any case) would be eliminated if possible on Borea-A, which is evolving into Borea-B. Take say the SU-27 of the first series and compare with later releases, I'm not talking about the SU-35, which has its roots, just the SU-27. And put them next and find 10 differences. But this is all the lyrics, as long as there is no Borea-B, there is only a project and a desire to make the SSBN a level, or even two or three, better than Dolphin.
      Quote: Old26
      Just in terms of functionality, we can say that they are twins. Both are multi-purpose submarines.

      In terms of functionality, yes, they are capable of performing the same tasks, but in terms of filling, these are completely different MAPLs.
  7. Operator
    Operator 21 March 2018 17: 56
    +1
    It's time to stop the small-scale construction of the Boreev and move on to the large-scale construction of the Status-6.
  8. Old26
    Old26 21 March 2018 18: 12
    +1
    Quote: 76SSSR
    Just the twins are identical in details, but in terms of similar functionality, they are just brothers, and relatives or cousins ​​depend on the volume of similarity.)

    Well, maybe you’re right, and I wrote clumsily. The meaning was about the same. And the brothers or sisterships there - the second thing ....

    Quote: 76SSSR
    In the future, the surface fleet will be significantly inferior in potential to the submarine fleet, so I believe that primacy in the submarine fleet is a paramount task.

    So far, this is not visible. Even in countries with a developed submarine fleet, such as the United States, the total number of ships is several times larger than the submarines. And their potential is incomparably higher than that of the submarine fleet. Look, for example, how many SLCM carriers are in the submarine fleet and how many on the surface fleet
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 March 2018 21: 15
      +6
      Quote: Old26
      So far, this is not visible. Even in countries with a developed submarine fleet, such as the United States, the total number of ships is several times larger than the submarines. And their potential is incomparably higher than that of the submarine fleet. Look, for example, how many SLCM carriers are in the submarine fleet and how many on the surface fleet

      Nuuu ... let's remember the USSR before the collapse and the number of submarines of different classes in the Navy at that time ... and there was a small fleet of small navy ..
      A. S. Pavlov gives the following data on the composition of the USSR Navy at the end of the 1980s: 64 nuclear and 15 diesel submarines with ballistic missiles, 79 submarines with cruise missiles (including 63 nuclear), 80 multipurpose torpedo nuclear submarines (all data on submarines as of January 1, 1989),

      Such a fleet was able to induce a shecher on a global scale.
  9. Palagecha
    Palagecha 21 March 2018 18: 28
    +6
    Lord, these boats are hanging out and hanging out. Images, missiles, designs ... I've heard about this for 20 years ... Money is leaving, but there are no boats ... But there are promises to promise the promised dates, to promise new ones ....
  10. Old26
    Old26 21 March 2018 21: 23
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Not so ephemeral as it is obvious. Borey's head was with its shortcomings and sores, which (in any case) would be eliminated if possible on Borea-A, which is evolving into Borea-B. Take say the SU-27 of the first series and compare with later releases, I'm not talking about the SU-35, which has its roots, just the SU-27. And put them next and find 10 differences. But this is all the lyrics, as long as there is no Borea-B, there is only a project and a desire to make the SSBN a level, or even two or three, better than Dolphin.

    Andrei! Do not evade. Many of us are well aware that the first buildings were made of what was. Machines and mechanisms vary. as possible hardware complexes. The question was raised more specifically nowhere.
    you said, that Borey-B differs from Borea-A. This is your phrase
    Quote: NEXUS
    Borey-B, to make it clearer to you, this a completely different SSBN than Borey or Borey-A. The conversation is about completely NEW APL. And do not be fooled by the same name of these submarines.


    The fact that Borey-B is a new boat - no one denies this. You have been asked a question. What is the difference if she other. how do you write If you don’t know, just say so, since only OCDs go along Borey-B, but you shouldn’t dodge and switch to analogies with SU-27.
    If I know how, for example, the R-36M differs from the R-36M UTTX and, accordingly, the R-36M2 - I’m talking about these differences, but I don’t translate it by analogy, as you do with Sushki
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 March 2018 22: 10
      +6
      Quote: Old26
      Andrei! No need to evade

      Vladimir, and who evades? The article says black in Russian .. we read it thoughtfully ..
      The head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov said that development work to determine the shape of the nuclear submarines of project 955 Borey-B was carried out, but they need to be redone.

      What other proof do you need? And I brought an analogy with Sushki, because the essence is the same.
  11. earloop
    earloop 22 March 2018 00: 07
    0
    In the work environment, both “o” and “e” happen!
  12. Old26
    Old26 22 March 2018 10: 22
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Old26
    Andrei! No need to evade

    Vladimir, and who evades? The article says black in Russian .. we read it thoughtfully ..
    The head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov said that development work to determine the shape of the nuclear submarines of project 955 Borey-B was carried out, but they need to be redone.

    What other proof do you need? And I brought an analogy with Sushki, because the essence is the same.

    Yes? And it was said that the appearance is completely different and therefore did not pass? Or because it did not pass on economic indicators? Nevermind. We assume that you, in a fit of "Labor enthusiasm" said that he would look completely different without thinking, but what does this mean ...
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 22 March 2018 11: 35
      +4
      Quote: Old26
      Nevermind. We assume that you, in a fit of "Labor enthusiasm" said that he would look completely different without thinking, but what does this mean ...

      You shouldn’t speak through your lips, Vladimir. Our argument will judge only time. When they surrender the first Borey-B, then we'll talk. hi
  13. Forever so
    Forever so 22 March 2018 13: 14
    0
    So it is necessary to attract Yudashkin, Zaitsev. at the worst, Vasiliev, although he is not traditional, he will fashionably sentence))
  14. Old26
    Old26 22 March 2018 16: 56
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Old26
    Nevermind. We assume that you, in a fit of "Labor enthusiasm" said that he would look completely different without thinking, but what does this mean ...

    You shouldn’t speak through your lips, Vladimir. Our argument will judge only time. When they surrender the first Borey-B, then we'll talk. hi

    Andrei! I don’t speak through clenched teeth, but if you say that “B” will be different from “A” then you have to say how they will differ. Otherwise, it will look like empty chatter. Having said “A”, you need to say “B”, but you just said banality - it will be different. Nobody argues with this. But what?