Another column. Another source

114
В stories monuments of the past, memorable columns established to perpetuate some important state events are of special importance for culture and science. Everyone knows the lines of A.S. Pushkin about the “Pillar of Alexandria”, the British do not think of their Trafalgar Square without Nelson’s column, well, and the “Trajan’s Column”, as we have already noted, has become an important source in the study of the military affairs of the Roman Empire of the Emperor Trajan's era. However, this is not the only such monument that very clearly shows the appearance of the Roman soldiers of the time. The fact is that in Rome there is another column - the column of Marcus Aurelius and it is also a very important historical source for us. Well, first of all, let's say that this is a column, executed in a Doric warrant, which is also located in Rome on the Square of the column, so named in her honor. It was erected in memory of the victory of Emperor Marcus Aurelius in the Marcomans War, well, of course, the column of Trajan, built more than half a century earlier, served as its prototype.


Detail of the column of Marcus Aurelius in Rome. The event on it is the so-called "miracle of rain in the territory of Kvadi", in which the rain god, by the emperor's prayer, is saved by the Roman troops, by arranging a terrible storm, a miracle that the Christians subsequently declared to be the result of an appeal to their Christian God. Of the details that are of interest to us, the helmets with a ring on the crown for carrying them on a campaign and very short, like on the column of Traian, legions of mail with a scalloped hem, draw attention to themselves.



Dating the column is not so difficult if you count a little. It is known that the first stage of the Markoman’s war, which lasted a whole year from 166 to 180, was completely unsuccessful for Rome, and the Romans began to celebrate their first successes only in 176. But in 180, Marcus Aurelius had already died, so it is obvious that this column was built in the period between 176 and 180, our era. Since it is precisely this historical period that is precisely reflected in the bas-reliefs on the column, it is necessary first of all to tell about what time it was and what this war represented.

Another column. Another source

But this is what the whole column looks like today.

To begin with, the wars of Trajan against the Dacians (101 – 102; 105 – 106) were the last successful wars of Rome, which gave it such significant territorial increments. In the future, Rome was no longer up to new conquests. It was required to keep the conquered. Therefore, the main part of the legions was dispersed along the border of the empire, where in addition began the construction of long lines of fortifications. It would seem that, having rested against the walls of the Roman frontier fortresses, the waves of barbarians, wounded out of the Black Sea steppes, would have to stop. But no - apparently their need was so great that they tried in every way to overcome the Roman border, which constantly led to border clashes, both small and large.


The preservation of the figures is generally worse than on the column of Trajan, but since this high relief is an impression, due to the play of light and shadows, they produce a stronger one.

So the Markoman war (166 – 180) was one of such wars of Rome with the Germanic and Sarmatian tribes, caused by their movement on its eastern borders.


This bas-relief of the column depicts the Roman cavalry, which in the west in the era of the early empire was recruited mainly from the Celts. Weapon it was served by a Spata sword with a length of 60-70 cm, a spear for throwing, and to protect the body — chain mail, scale armor, similar to the cut of mail, and an oval shield. Interestingly, the helmets of the riders adorn the small sultans. It is possible that this was done specifically to ... flatter the gullible barbarians. They say that even our legionaries have no sultans on their helmets, but you have them! And how many people need to be happy?

Then Marcomanni, Quads, Hermundurians, tongues and a number of other tribes took advantage of the fact that the Roman Empire was in a difficult situation because of the Parthian war of 161 – 166 and the plague epidemic that followed it in lean years in Italy. Violating the Rhine-Danube border of the empire, they were able to go to Italy and in 169, led by the leader of the Marcomanni, Ballomar, destroy the Roman army from 20 000 almost at Carnunta. Then they made a deep raid deep into the empire: they besieged the fortress of Aquileia and managed to destroy the city of Opithery. Only at the end of 169, the emperor Marcus Aurelius was able to stop the onslaught of the Marcomanni and their allies. However, the death of his co-ruler, Lucius Vera, caused an internal political crisis, due to which only in 172 – 174, and then with great difficulty gained new legions, which had to be replenished with slaves and barbarians. The war, however, went on with mixed success. In 175, there was an uprising by Syrian Governor Avidia Cassius, so the Romans were forced to abandon new attempts to expand their borders. Nevertheless, it can be considered that, in general, this war was not so bad for the Romans: according to the 175 peace agreement of the year, the Marcomanni tribes were forced to recognize the Roman protectorate. In addition, the Romans still took away from them, though narrow, but still a strip of land along the border. At the same time about 25 000 barbarians joined the ranks of the Roman army.


In this bas-relief, we see both trumpeters, and ferniers, and vexillaria, and legionnaires in lamellar loricas, both shown both in the front and in the back, which allows a good view of their structure. But chain mails with scalloped hem and on this bas-relief are so short that below the belt nothing is completely covered.

To commemorate the victory over the Germans and Sarmatians of 3 on December 176, Marcus Aurelius, along with his son Commodus, arranged a triumph. But feeling that he was tired of life, the emperor decided at the same time to make Commodus his co-ruler.


The same bas-relief, shifted to the right. Legionnaire's belt (the extreme figure on the left), as you see, has changed a lot. Obviously, scaly armor in the Roman army of the era of the first centuries of the empire was very common ...

However, in 177, the barbarian tribes launched a new offensive. However, this time Rome military happiness smiled pretty quickly. Although the barbarians once again managed to enter Pannonia and then again reach Aquileia, commander Tarruntia Paterna managed to beat them completely in 179, after which the barbarians were driven out of Roman territory. Then Marcus Aurelius himself crossed with the troops across the Danube in order to conquer new territories and create on them the next Roman provinces: Marcomania and Sarmatia. The implementation of these plans was prevented by his death in Vindobonne 17 March 180.

After his death, Commodus decided to make peace with the barbarians on the condition that the pre-war border between them and the Roman Empire would be restored. However, the Romans still had to build a new line of fortifications on the Danube border and send additional troops there.

And at this particular time period, individual episodes of the Markoman’s war were reflected in the bas-reliefs of the 30-meter column of Emperor Marcus Aurelius in Rome.

The exactly measured height of this column is equal to 29,6 m, and the height of the pedestal is 10 m. Thus, the height of the monument once was 41,95 m, but then three meters of its base after the restoration carried out in 1589, were below ground level. The barrel of the column, according to various sources, was made of 27 or 28 blocks of selected Carrara marble 3,7-meter diameter. Just like the column of Emperor Trajan, inside it is hollow and there is a spiral staircase with steps (190 — 200), along which you can climb to its top, where at the time of its construction was a sculpture of Marcus Aurelius. Illumination of the stairs is through small windows.


Interestingly, on the bas-reliefs of this column, we practically do not see rectangular skutum shields, but there are oval not only among horsemen, but also with infantry. In addition, many warriors wear pants such as breeches - a thing in Rome previously unheard of.


Note that the relief images of the Marcus Aurelius column are different from the similar images from the Trajan column by a much greater expression. The reason is that a bas-relief type of carving is used on Trajan's column, while on the Mark's column we see a high relief, that is, stone carving is deeper here, and its figures protrude from the background. It is known that there are four types of relief: a bas-relief, a high relief, a counter-relief and a coyanaglyph. It makes no sense to talk about the last two in this case (or rather, to write), but the first two can be reported that the image is called a bas-relief when it protrudes from the background by half, and the high relief is such a kind of sculptured convex relief, in which It depicts, appears above the plane of the background more than half the volume of all the parts depicted on it. That is, it becomes half sculpture and only slightly associated with the main background. So just on the pillar of Marcus Aurelius we see high reliefs and this is very valuable, as it allows us to study her figures not only frontally, but also a little to the side. Also, for a more accurate depiction of the faces of the characters, the figures are enlarged relative to the body. On the other hand, the thread itself is somewhat rougher and we can note a decrease in the level of study of the depicted parts of weapons and clothing.


Roman troops cross the river on a pontoon bridge. This bas-relief is very clearly visible so-called "four-legged" Roman saddle, covered with cheprakom. Josephus, for example, wrote that the eastern cavalry carried with them quivers with several darts with wide leaf-shaped tips, clearly hung by the saddle. But here we do not see such quivers. Stepmen, too, as you can see, no.


Bas-reliefs at the base of the column.

In the Middle Ages, the rise to the top of the column became so popular that it turned into such a profitable business that the right to receive payment for this by the Rome Magistrate was annually put up for auction.


The last year of the Markomanic War is dedicated to the film by Ridley Scott "Gladiator". There are a lot of things imagined, but on this frame from this movie everything is very realistic: on the right there are legionnaires in segmented Lorik and with rectangular shields, on the left - oriental archers in conical helmets and chain mail. The latter, however, still a bit short ...

Since the statue of Marcus Aurelius was somehow lost by the 16th century, Pope Sixt V in 1589 ordered the architect Domenico Fontana to restore the column. He installed on it a sculpture of the apostle Paul, and on the pedestal made an inscription about the work he had done, in which for some reason he confused the names of the emperors and called it the column of Antonin Pius.
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  1. +3
    April 1 2018 07: 11
    Some of the bas-reliefs are almost destroyed, some are completely intact ...
    Still, marble is not the most durable material.
    Interestingly, inside it is hollow, there are stairs and at one time it was extremely popular for visits: after all, its height is as much as 42 meters, and this is 14 floors!
    1. +2
      April 1 2018 10: 56
      Note that the relief images of the column of Marcus Aurelius differ from similar images from the column of Trajan by significantly greater expression. The reason is that a bas-relief type carving was used on the Trajan’s column, but on the Mark’s column we see a high relief, that is, the stone carving is deeper here, and its figures protrude from the background. It is known that there are four types of relief: bas-relief, high relief, counter-relief and koianaglyph. It makes no sense to talk about (or rather write about) the last two, but the first two can be reported that the image is called a bas-relief when it protrudes half from the background, and the high relief is such a kind of sculptural convex relief in which it depicts, protrudes above the background plane by more than half the volume of all parts depicted on it.


      This is unlikely because all these Roman "reliefs" such as stone carving are actually just stucco molding, which falls over time, like color in the wind.



      it can be seen in this place of the column this "thread" simply fell away and there was a flat surface of the column, if there was a thread, then the surface would not be so even.
      1. +4
        April 1 2018 13: 36
        What a discovery! Fomenko is just resting ...
        1. +4
          April 1 2018 13: 59
          Yes, the stucco work of Karar marble is even stronger than the lack of metalworking among nomads.
          1. +1
            April 1 2018 17: 04
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Yes, the stucco work of Karar marble is even stronger than the lack of metalworking among nomads.


            illiteracy, if you don’t know, then what’s to climb into conversation?


            Ondine emerging from the water ", 1880
            Yale University Gallery (USA)


            "Getting rid of the spell" (Capella San Severo, in Naples)

            it is also a stucco molding, despite the fact that it is marble. Ancestors knew how to make plaster from marble, from granite and make columns, stone blocks and statues.
        2. +1
          April 3 2018 08: 43
          Quote: kalibr
          What a discovery! Fomenko is just resting ...

          https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6707/1118136.3b/0
          _8de1e_2cd003ca_orig
          And you look at the reference. Look and ask yourself - and what does Fomenko have to do with it?
          1. +1
            April 3 2018 09: 28
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Quote: kalibr
            What a discovery! Fomenko is just resting ...

            https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6707/1118136.3b/0
            _8de1e_2cd003ca_orig
            And you look at the reference. Look and ask yourself - and what does Fomenko have to do with it?

            Shpakovsky is a professor at a humanitarian institute, has been studying history all his life. Do you think he did not see these photographs? Of course I saw it, but the historians of the traditional school have a selective mind, if the world historical corporation has decided that the columns are carved stones, then all historians must devote their observation, scientific ethics, their own conscience and at the same time scream, and a stone and nothing more.
            From some point on, humanity has become deceitful, or rather, those who represent this humanity, politicians, religions, and academic science serving them. What do you think from when this part of society began to lie to people at a loss? This point is in the history of mankind, before there were not so many lies.
            1. +1
              April 3 2018 10: 25
              Thank. I share your position. But not for you, I gave a link. I just hinted to those interested how to find information for thought, and not for parroting. And it is by no means impossible to attach Fomenko to these facts. He is here, as the youth says, “not at work.”
              1. 0
                April 3 2018 11: 08
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Thank. I share your position. But not for you, I gave a link. I just hinted to those interested how to find information for thought, and not for parroting. And it is by no means impossible to attach Fomenko to these facts. He is here, as the youth says, “not at work.”


                oh sorry then, but I’m for you, below I’ve given a link to the stonehenge directed by Elkhov, very clearly.
      2. +7
        April 1 2018 13: 36
        Quote: Artek
        This "thread" simply disappeared and there the flat surface of the column would be a thread, the surface would not be so smooth.

        The secret archives of the Vatican kept a graphic sketch of the lost part of the high relief. Its description was left to us by St. Augustine in his unpublished work "Ruthenian Antiquities as the Key to the Kingdom of God." According to this manuscript, carefully concealed by the Catholic Church, on the lost fragment was depicted a sun disk on the edge of which there was an inscription that Augustine, one of the most educated people of his time, translated as "The Great Emperor Owning the World of the Sunset Sun from Ruthenia established this as a sign of a great victory ... "Augustine's further translation caused difficulties, since he could not reliably determine the meaning of the word“ tar ”twice repeated. Nevertheless, at present it is obvious that the Great Emperor should be understood as Vladimir the Red Sun, and Augustine, who was brought to a linguistic stupor, twice the repetition of the word "tar" is undoubtedly a great Tartary.
        laughing
        1. +1
          April 1 2018 13: 56
          Quote: Luga
          According to this manuscript, carefully hidden by the Catholic Church, on a lost fragment was a disc of the sun along the edge of which there was an inscription that Augustine, one of the most educated people of his time, translated as “The Great Emperor Owning the World of the Sunset Sun and


          drive of the sun under the feet of soldiers? You, as usually deceived, is not a disk of the sun, but a disk of the moon.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +1
              April 1 2018 16: 44
              Duc above him, too, in response to banter .. and you took everything seriously ... In fact, you need to tie a sect, otherwise there will be a parallel sect with the goal of zastebat you.
              1. +1
                April 1 2018 17: 55
                I am very glad that you succeeded. Then we live to laugh at others and in turn give them a chance to laugh at you. Well, they laughed and then what? All remained with their own. Do you think I want to prove something to you? Not at all. On the contrary, I am only glad that people like you exist and are here in VO. There wouldn’t be - it would be worth inventing them!
                1. +1
                  April 1 2018 19: 14
                  Quote: kalibr
                  I am very glad that you did it.

                  How do you character, Vyacheslav Olegovich? In childhood, we had a saying when we wanted to emphasize someone’s stupidity: "no mind, no fantasy." I thought a little, and where does the fantasy come from? And it turns out there are such characters that otherwise could not be described ...
                  Quote: kalibr
                  There wouldn’t be - it would be worth inventing them!

                  What for? In order to show the children, they say, you will not obey, you will become the same? .. If only this way ... I used to give my son the venaja to read to my son, but I don’t see any sense in showing this to him and his social networks is full ...
                  1. +2
                    April 1 2018 21: 24
                    It seems to me that three things frighten such people: the first - time - how much it will have to be spent if you search for something yourself, the second - labor - how much to "plow" yourself, and the third - the fear that confidence is born of such difficulty (well, at least, that everything around is a hoax) will somehow be shaken. Well, I would be interested in something - I would collect literature, start reading ... And then I want to immediately and quickly.
                    1. 0
                      April 1 2018 21: 35
                      Quote: kalibr
                      It seems to me that three things frighten such people:

                      That is unlikely. Nothing scares them of the above, because they don’t try it on themselves, they don’t even think about anything like that.
                      They are not afraid of anything at all, because, as a rule, they have nothing to lose. There is no authority for which one could fight, no self-worth which could be defended, no positive reputation one could hold on to. Replaced nickname and start shitting in the corners first, so to speak with a clean reputation.
                2. 0
                  April 2 2018 22: 32
                  Quote: kalibr
                  I am very glad that you did it.

                  I have nothing to do with it.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Then we live to laugh at others and in turn give them a chance to laugh at you. Well, they laughed and then what?

                  Of course, only you for some reason take the words of others seriously. I kind of just helped you.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Do you think I want to prove something to you? Not at all.

                  1. I did not ask you to prove anything to me.
                  2. You are too high self-conceit to do this. Therefore, generally reading about this is strange.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  On the contrary, I am only glad that people like you exist and are here in VO. There wouldn’t be - it would be worth inventing them!

                  I'm glad you're glad. The state must have intilitia, even one like you.
        2. 0
          April 1 2018 16: 42
          No, it’s you who personally cleared everything with an emery cloth. Mom dear, where such fools come from. You would have to work at a construction site or something.
          1. 0
            April 1 2018 19: 24
            Quotation: blooded man
            No, it's you personally sandpaper all cleaned.

            Who else but me? You are nothing more serious than toilet paper can not be trusted.
            Quotation: blooded man
            Mother dear, where such fools come from.

            Mama dear, yes answer already son, it suffers because ...
            1. 0
              April 1 2018 20: 00
              Michael, I'm sorry, but in my opinion the phrase "conscript" is addressed to "Artek"
              1. 0
                April 1 2018 20: 10
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Michael, I'm sorry, but in my opinion the phrase "conscript" is addressed to "Artek"

                Then I apologize to Artek. However, taking into account the warm relations that I had with the bloodbinder, I think, I had a reason to relate this phrase to myself. smile
                But the devout bloc needs to explain to whom exactly he is addressing ... In order to avoid ...
                1. +2
                  April 1 2018 20: 46
                  Oh, you have a vendetta! Sorry for the intrusion. wink
            2. 0
              April 2 2018 22: 40
              Quote: Luga
              Nothing is more serious than toilet paper you can not be trusted.

              I also advise you to use toilet paper, not a newspaper. You know, civilization and all that.

              Quote: Luga
              Mama dear, yes answer already son, it suffers because ...

              Mom says you haven’t seen you in the eyes.
      3. +1
        April 1 2018 14: 51
        Quote: Artek
        it can be seen in this place of the column this "thread" simply fell away and there was a flat surface of the column, if there was a thread, then the surface would not be so even.
        Not a single stucco can stand for so many centuries, and even in the open air.
        The marble from which the column is made and on centuries-old monuments is not the best view. But this is Carrara, i.e. high quality, but still marble, i.e. the material is soft and not very durable
        1. 0
          April 1 2018 16: 13
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Artek
          it can be seen in this place of the column this "thread" simply fell away and there was a flat surface of the column, if there was a thread, then the surface would not be so even.
          Not a single stucco can stand for so many centuries, and even in the open air.
          The marble from which the column is made and on centuries-old monuments is not the best view. But this is Carrara, i.e. high quality, but still marble, i.e. the material is soft and not very durable


          and who told you that this is “so many centuries”? This is not so. The column is a waterman, therefore it collapses, the same stonehenge, the concrete base is visible everywhere.
          1. 0
            April 1 2018 17: 04
            Right! And traces of processing "grinder"
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. 0
              April 1 2018 17: 12
              https://cloud.mail.ru/public/BvRp/S2fWNPfEc
              film directed by Elkhov, Stonehenge is a water producer.
              Learn illiteracy.
              1. 0
                April 1 2018 17: 51
                The film is not the source. In the film, only the camera is important. And how to put it. There was a Deniken movie about aliens. Very ... quality done. For its time. Well earned. Naturally, there are those who want to repeat. And aliens are now looking for ...
                1. 0
                  April 1 2018 17: 53
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The film is not the source. In the film, only the camera is important. And how to put it. There was a Deniken movie about aliens. Very ... quality done. For its time. Well earned. Naturally, there are those who want to repeat. And aliens are now looking for ...


                  In the book, the camera is important, but in the book, the glasses do you think so? And I thought that in the book and in the film, the main thing is the content.
                  1. +1
                    April 1 2018 21: 19
                    There is such a wonderful English series, "Absolute Power." The first episode of the first season will answer your question.
          2. +1
            April 2 2018 08: 44
            Quote: Artek
            .Colon-waterman

            No.
            1. 0
              April 2 2018 08: 56
              Quote: Olgovich
              Quote: Artek
              .Colon-waterman

              No.

              you as a girl of marriageable age, but no.
              1. +1
                April 2 2018 09: 11
                But is it true that Chudinov and Davidenko have fillings instead of teeth? And have dentists covered the enamel on top?
  2. +2
    April 1 2018 07: 55
    The episode of the Marcoman War is reflected at the beginning of the film "Gladiator" with Russell Crowe. In 167, the Germans even went to the Adriatic Sea from behind the Danube. In 169. Marcus Aurelius managed to inflict a series of defeats on them and push them beyond the Danube. The war continued with varying success until 180 g. when Emperor Kommod defeated the German forces. tribes and made peace with them, restoring the borders of the Empire. But later the emperors began to attract the Germans to serve in their legions, settle in the border areas in the position of colonies, and even grant them Roman citizenship. The Moroccan war marked the beginning of the increasing pressure of the barbarian tribes on the Empire, which led, in the end, to her death.
  3. +1
    April 1 2018 08: 30
    Marcoman and other Germanic tribes came from the Scandinavian Peninsula. Before the Marcoman there were Cimbri, after the Marcoman - Goths and Vandals, at the end - Danes, Angles and Saxons. The Vikings (Sveis and Normans) no longer migrated, but constantly lived on the peninsula.

    Nomadic Germans passed through the areas of the southern coast of the Baltic Sea all the way to the Danube, inhabited by settled tribes of the Vendian Slavs, and invaded the territory of the Roman Empire - the ultimate goal of their route.
    1. Cat
      +1
      April 1 2018 12: 02
      Who just did not try "on the tooth" Rome! Subsequently, who just did not draw himself as his descendant! Only one thing - it proves the greatness of Rome !!!
      1. 0
        April 1 2018 12: 43
        There was only one official successor to the Roman Empire - the Roman Empire of the same name with the capital New Rome (former Byzantium, future Constantinople).
        1. Cat
          +3
          April 1 2018 15: 16
          I mean, who just does not honor himself as the descendants of Rome! As from single individuals to entire nations. For example, Romanians!
          1. +1
            April 1 2018 15: 35
            The majority of Romanians are Roman colonists, introduced in the 2 century A.D. to the territory of the former Dacia. Those. Romania is just one of the border Danube provinces of the Roman Empire.

            The state is determined by the location of its capital, in the case of the Roman Empire it is Rome, then New Rome.
          2. 0
            April 1 2018 16: 48
            By the way, Russian tsars also lean against Rome.
            1. +1
              April 1 2018 17: 07
              The Russian Kingdom is the ideological successor of the Roman Empire (in the Byzantine edition, of course) after its liquidation by the Turks.

              The multinational state (imperium), tsarism (Caesarism) and Orthodoxy (orthodoxy) - from there.
          3. 0
            April 1 2018 17: 06
            East of the Don, Slavic tribes never lived. Ugro - Finnish peoples lived in most of central Russia. In fact, now it is less than 1% of the territory of modern Russia. But the people called themselves Russian and speaks Slavic.
            1. +1
              April 1 2018 19: 14
              The first Finno-Ugrians crossed to Europe through the Ural ridge 1,5 thousands of years BC

              Question: who before this lived from the Urals to the Don, Volga and Northern Dvina - bears? laughing
              1. 0
                April 1 2018 21: 59
                And who lived there?
                1. +1
                  April 1 2018 22: 43
                  First there was a glacier, then (except for the northern regions) from 5 to 3 the millennium BC Celts (R1b) lived, after - arias (R1a) and Samoyeds (N2, in the northern regions), from the middle of the 2 of the millennium, Finno-Ugrians began to migrate from the Urals.

                  Finno-Ugrians settled in the future of Finland, and also mixed in the proportion 50 / 50 with the Slavs in the Baltic and Volga regions.

                  From the first millennium BC from the Urals, Bulgars and Hungarians (R1b + C2), Tatars (N1 + C2) and Scythians (J2 + R1a, in the steppe zone) began to cross.
                  1. 0
                    April 2 2018 16: 52
                    And now the main question: what does this have to do with what I primarily said?
                    And I said that the Russian people speak the language of the tribes who lived only on a small piece of land on the outskirts of the Russian Federation.
                    1. +1
                      April 2 2018 18: 22
                      I already told you that all 3 millennium BC the space of Europe from the Elbe, the Sudeten and the Danube (from the west), the Kola Peninsula, the future of Finland, the Baltic coasts of the Arctic Ocean up to the Urals (from the north), along the western spurs of the Urals, the Caspian Sea, the northern spurs of the Caucasus (from the east), the Black Sea coast from the Danube to the future of Novorossiysk (from the south) it was populated exclusively by the R1a arias.

                      Beginning in the middle of the 2 millennium BC very few ugrofinns and Samoyeds began to penetrate this space from the side of Asia, from the 1 of the millennium BC. Scythians, from the beginning of our era the Huns, Khazars, Polovtsy, Tatars, Bulgars, Hungarians, Mongols, etc.

                      At the same time, very few ugrofinns formed Métis - the Baltic states, Mordovians and other national minorities with the arias. Finland is an exception to the rule.

                      In any case, the Arians, as they lived from the Elbe to the Danube, from Ladoga to the Volga, from the Dnieper to the Don (with the exception of the steppe zone), they live now. And this territory is by no means a "small patch" of Europe, and even more so of Eastern Europe.

                      As for the modern resettlement of the direct descendants of the Aryans - the Slavs, this is just our Aryan Reconquista, both in Europe and in Asia up to Altai, where 24 was born thousands of years ago the first carrier of the hapolgroup R1a and from where 16 thousands of years ago went west tribe of his descendants.

                      And if you recall that our relatives are nomadic arias in the 2 millennium BC. they conquered all of Western Europe (Cimmerians), Anatolia, Syria and Arabia (Mitannians), Iran (Rigvedians), Hindustan (Avestins) and reached Manchuria, it turns out that the GDP was right when he said that: "Russia's borders do not end nowhere " bully

                      PS The socles of synagogues built in Israel and Galilee until the 2 century AD (the expulsion of Jews from Palestine) is covered by a swastika - a direct consequence of the entry of the Mitannian Aryans into the Jewish people in the middle of the 2 millennium BC (8% of Israelis at the moment). The descendants of the Aryans still make up the majority of the tribe of Levi - professional worshipers (rabbis). Moses himself was from this tribe.
                      1. 0
                        April 8 2018 13: 05
                        "when he said that:" The borders of Russia do not end anywhere "////

                        We would start from this! fellow And then, such a long introduction ... laughing

                        "covered by the swastika - a direct consequence of the entry of the Mitannian Aryans into" ////

                        Where is that? belay It seems to you, the Aryam, that the swastika seems to be everywhere. In any pattern that looks like the sun.

              2. 0
                April 2 2018 17: 31
                Quote: Operator
                who before this lived from the Urals to the Don, Volga and Northern Dvina - bears?

                Fatyanovo culture. Judging by the burials and hydronymics - Aryans (ancestors of the Balts and / or Slavs)
            2. 0
              April 1 2018 23: 31
              Quote: Severski
              East of the Don, Slavic tribes never lived. Ugro - Finnish peoples lived in most of central Russia. In fact, now it is less than 1% of the territory of modern Russia. But the people called themselves Russian and speaks Slavic.

              Oleg, never brag about your meager knowledge.
              1. 0
                April 2 2018 16: 47
                I am very glad to know so much. Your mother is probably very proud of you.
                1. 0
                  April 3 2018 08: 27
                  Quote: Severski
                  I am very glad to know so much. Your mother is probably very proud of you.

                  Oleg, please forgive my harshness. I would like to recommend you one book. Yuri Petukhov "On the roads of the gods." The man, now deceased, devoted his whole life to the study of the history of the origin and development of "paganism." You will learn a lot from the history of our people. This is, so to speak, for starters. Of course, if you have a desire.
  4. +2
    April 1 2018 08: 43
    All this is strange ... what
    We know when the column was established, who, in honor of what ... Then comes one and a half thousand years of uncertainty (well, historians so elegantly call this time the "Dark Ages" when they could not write and read everything), then oops ... and from 16 century we know again who did and repair what with this column lol
    History, whether Panimash, she is such ..... request
    hi
    1. +2
      April 1 2018 10: 21
      It is interesting in which story you counted one and a half thousand years of dark centuries. The poet Petrarch counted eight hundred years, and historians are limited to a period of two hundred years.
      1. +2
        April 1 2018 10: 38
        "What's in the history of the ages, or is there half a century,
        In terms of scale, they don’t even cry about geniuses "(A. Makarevich) laughing
        1. Cat
          +4
          April 1 2018 11: 59
          Century of "tudes", century of "syudy" !!! On the scale of history, it is hardly important how many reasons for fraud with the latter!
      2. +1
        April 1 2018 15: 40
        Quote: Curious
        in what story you counted one and a half thousand years of dark centuries.

        Today, at Shpakovsky lol
        He began with the construction, then almost a year and a half filled with descriptions of the fact that the Romans on the column were not standard shields with bridges, then from the XVI again everything is clear and understandable wink
        Isn’t it strange, Victor ??? what request
        Quote: Curious
        The poet Petrarch counted eight hundred years, and historians are limited to a period of two hundred years.

        Well, it’s not so important, it’s important that at the indicated time it’s not known. Know the dark time ... hi
    2. +5
      April 1 2018 14: 02
      Quote: Rurikovich
      History, whether Panimash, she is such .....

      And where to go?
      Not math, tea. That math is a science. You read - "every simply connected compact three-dimensional manifold without an edge is homeomorphic to a three-dimensional analogue of a two-dimensional sphere consisting of a set of points equidistant from a fixed central point in four-dimensional Euclidean space," it is immediately clear that the man was a scientist, intelligent. There is respect and understanding that this is SCIENCE, it is for the elite and it is better not to meddle with our snout in such a Kalash rank. What is the story? Then the child will figure it out. Charles I, Charles II, Charles III, everything is clear. What the hell do historians teach? Better go to the factory to work. We have any normal person - a ready-made historian. Write a story, do not hesitate.
      1. +2
        April 1 2018 15: 49
        Quote: Luga
        Charles I, Charles II, Charles III, everything is clear.

        Yeah, like in a joke. “Madame, you have twelve sons, but everyone is called Ivan.” How do you distinguish them? - By patronymic.
        Mikhail, with all due respect to educated people (to you, to V.O.Shpakovsky, to other apologists of history), until simple logical questions arise and the same historians have no simple logical answers to them, disputes that true, and that fiction will always be!
        And the excuse that you need to believe academics and associate professors, because they are academicians and associate professors of history personally does not work for me. request hi
        1. +2
          April 1 2018 16: 17
          Quote: Rurikovich
          as long as simple logical questions arise and the same historians have no simple logical answers to them, disputes about what is true and what fiction will always be!

          For most of the questions that we can ask historians have answers, you just need to take care of their search in the relevant monographs. Unfortunately, many of them (especially those related to foreign history) are not even translated into Russian, but for a stubborn researcher this is not a problem, right?
          But as a sane person did not expect to hear from you about the "simple and logical" answers. Not to mention the fact that in the world, in addition to formal logic, there is also dialectic, the very requirement of "simplicity" of an answer indicates a lack of knowledge in a certain field. Isn't it better to reinforce knowledge first, expand it, and then, you see, and there are answers yourself?
          1. 0
            April 1 2018 16: 36
            Quote: Luga
            But how I did not expect from a sane person to hear from you about "simple and logical" answers.

            The vast majority of people are not professionals in the field of history, which the rest of the small part is so proud of, because historians bring the rest to court, as history, should, in the opinion of this majority, fit into some framework that is understandable and have a sound and logical finished look. And the assertion that this was so, based on the fact that historians said it, is very debatable if there are gaps (shortcomings, outright drawbacks for the right opinion) in a logical sense. Personally, I, an ordinary average hard worker, stupidly do not have enough time to translate my knowledge into the “dialectical” plane just to challenge some thoughts in the “butt” with historians. Because I have to somehow make time, in order to somehow find answers to their questions, if historians are too lazy to bring difficult to simple for a greater understanding of the majority. Is it because they hide behind the "dialectical" knowledge the inability to logically answer simple questions. In the same mathematics, complex is reduced to easy to understand, but for historians, on the contrary, it is necessary to study a lot of complex to accept simple. request "If you do not like our statement - look for answers in self-development" - it's easier to say so
            Isn't that why more and more people are starting to look for answers themselves because of which they are immediately declared "pseudo-historians", "pseudo-scientists", "Fomenko
            tsami ", and what they find is heresy and bullshit? Michael, don’t you find that for a simple person the story is already becoming really strange, and the explanations of historians themselves raise new questions?
            Quote: Luga
            Isn’t it better to first reinforce knowledge, expand it, and then, you look, and there are answers yourself?
            1. +1
              April 1 2018 17: 39
              Quote: Rurikovich
              In the same mathematics, the complex is given to be easy to understand, while for historians, on the contrary, it is necessary to study a lot of difficult things to make simple.

              No, also. School history books are easier to write, but you are not satisfied. In addition, in my historical studies of the neophyte, I mean a person who did not receive a special historical education, runs the risk of encountering precisely such simplifications, at the expense of the integrity of the picture. And with the current realities, I mean the circulation of the books of Fomenko and other authors - will certainly collide. Simplicity is the key to commercial success, and if true knowledge gets in the way of this success, then who cares, because on the other side of the scale are the material goods that you personally receive.
              Quote: Rurikovich
              Michael, do not you find that for a simple person the story is already becoming really strange, and the explanations of historians themselves raise new questions?

              For any science, such a phenomenon is characteristic when any discovery gives rise to new questions. The story does not become strange, it goes and develops regardless of what pseudo-historians write and publish, which is written in school textbooks, which have a very indirect relationship to science. It is not history that is strange, but her clone, a rubber doll, with which she is having fun, manipulating, twisting her limbs, pseudo-historians, trying (and often not even trying) to imagine that what they are doing is real science.
          2. +1
            April 1 2018 16: 51
            Quote: Luga
            For most of the questions that we can ask historians have answers, you just need to take care of their search in the relevant monographs.

            Haaa .. answers in monographs. And these d
            people then joke over Fomenko laughing
            1. +4
              April 1 2018 19: 33
              Quotation: blooded man
              aaa .. answers in monographs. And these d
              people then joke over Fomenko

              Monographs are such special works of scientists devoted to a particular issue. But for you there, of course, is the MABBOOKOF, therefore I didn’t call for you to search for answers in them. You can sleep well - no one expects anything from you. However, if you want to please people, do not appear on the network for a week.
              1. 0
                April 2 2018 23: 02
                Quote: Luga
                Monographs are such special works of scientists devoted to a specific issue.

                Here is a discovery.
                Citizen of Luga, kindly tell me what was the number of, for example, the Mongol army of Batu. As I understand it, all scientists have one figure correctly, since this answer is given in monographs.
                Okay, this is difficult for you. You can ask a simpler question. How many Ivan the Terrible killed people during the oprichtina.
                Okay, this is also difficult. It’s quite simple how many monographs evaluate the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in different ways and in which
                true.
                Well, to the heap. How many monographs about Katyn contradict each other.

                Quote: Luga
                But for you there, of course, is “multibukof,” therefore I didn’t call you to look for answers in them. You can sleep peacefully - no one expects anything from you.

                If historians had a unified opinion in all the monographs, then you would be able to kind of scoff about "multibuffer". But for you, alas, everything in reality is completely different. Since I am not a member of your sect, it is very funny to me when you write about monographs and their truth. You don’t even understand these simple things.

                Quote: Luga
                However, if you want to please people, do not appear on the network for a week.

                If people ask, I will certainly not appear. Unfortunately, you are a sectarian and your requests are not interesting to me.
      2. +1
        April 1 2018 17: 38
        Quote: Luga
        Not math, tea. That math is a science. You read - "every simply connected compact three-dimensional manifold without an edge is homeomorphic to the three-dimensional analogue of a two-dimensional sphere, consisting of many points equidistant from a fixed central point in four-dimensional Euclidean space", it is immediately clear that the scientist was intelligent. There is respect and understanding that this is SCIENCE, it is for the elite and it is better not to meddle with our snout in such a Kalash rank.

        I will add, Mikhail, I have one of the very good friends a mathematician, teaches ... And I have never heard anything like that from him what We communicate normally, understandably and logically wink hi
        1. +1
          April 1 2018 20: 16
          Quote: Rurikovich
          I will add, Mikhail, I have one of the very good friends a mathematician, teaches ... And I have never heard anything like that from him

          I simply copied the formulation of the Poincaré conjecture from Wiki. smile Well, there, unfolded a bit, for volume smile
        2. +3
          April 1 2018 21: 01
          "... I have one of the very good friends as a mathematician, she’s teaching ... And I’ve never heard anything like this from him. We communicate normally, understandably and logically."
          I have already presented how he will explain to you simply and understandably, between the first and second, some logical aspects of Handel's theorems. And everything is clear to you at once. Or are you discussing the application of Krichevar-Novikov algebras to geometry for coffee discussing?
          1. +1
            April 2 2018 17: 26
            Quote: Curious
            ... sets out some logical aspects of Handel's theorems.

            Victor, share what kind of aspects these are.
            And what kind of mathematician is Handel? Confess the only Handel whom I know wrote music
            1. +1
              April 2 2018 23: 04
              Did I write Handel? Alas and ah. The theorems I had in mind were proved by Kurt Friedrich Godel, an Austrian logician, mathematician and philosopher of mathematics. It’s just that Rurikovich began, sorry for the expression, to carry the blizzard about an easy conversation with a mathematician, and I joked. For fun, you can view
              "K. F. Gödel. Compatibility of the axiom of choice and the generalized continuum hypothesis with the axioms of set theory" and try to imagine easy communication on such or similar issues with a non-mathematician.
              As for Handel, the Talmudist and mathematician Manoah Handel ben-Shemaria died in 1612. He did not prove theorems, but was also not simple, he was engaged in bondage.
              1. 0
                April 3 2018 08: 04
                Victor, thanks for the answer.
                I’m familiar with Gödel’s works on the axiomatics of set theory, but rather by hearsay and present “easy communication” on this issue, to be honest, it doesn’t work out.
                However, under certain conditions I can imagine easy communication (popular science conversation) on the topic of Godel metrics, yet this topic is much closer to me.
                For the first time I hear about the Talmudist and mathematician Manoah Handel ben-Shemaria. Although this is probably because bondage has never been carried away.
                1. 0
                  April 3 2018 12: 57
                  "... I can imagine easy communication (popular science conversation) on the topic of Gödel's metric ..."
                  If the conversation on this topic is popular science, then it will most likely be not mathematics, but astronomy. Although it’s hard to imagine.
                  1. +1
                    April 3 2018 13: 38
                    Quote: Curious
                    If the conversation on this topic is popular science, then it will most likely be not mathematics, but astronomy.

                    Yes, only, not astronomy, but astrophysics.
                    Quote: Curious
                    Although it’s hard to imagine.

                    Why not? Popular science conversations on the subject of space-time metrics are quite common and occur without any mathematics (and physics, which is already there). As an example: people often talk about singularities, although they don’t even have a clue about the Schwarzschild metric.
      3. +1
        April 2 2018 17: 21
        Quote: Luga
        That math is a science.

        And why would it?
        Mathematics is not a science ... alas and ah ...
  5. Cat
    +4
    April 1 2018 11: 57
    It is interesting that on the bas-reliefs of this column we practically do not see rectangular shields of scutums, but oval figures are found not only among horsemen, but also among foot soldiers.

    It was during this period that the oval scutum was included in the everyday life of the legions of the Roman Empire. It is fashionable, popular and therefore is reflected in the column. Moreover, among the foot soldiers the oval scutums (with the characteristic shape of a semicircle), and the riders have flat shields!
    1. +3
      April 1 2018 12: 47
      I will make an assumption. In connection with the changing nature of the fighting, the role and number of cavalry in the army began to increase. This caused a certain unification of protective weapons.
      1. Cat
        +3
        April 1 2018 15: 02
        The reason for the legion's refusal from the classical rectangular scutum to the oval scutum is still unknown. Of all the versions, it is more real that the oval scutum was corny lighter than the classical one. But the oval as the main one existed as the main one in the legions of Rome for no more than a century and was replaced by a technologically simple and light flat oval shield.
        A similar evolution also affected the shields of the equestrian federates of Rome. The oval shape of the shield of the middle empire was everywhere replaced by a drop-shaped, and later round.
        But where are they all up to the classic scootum!
        1. +2
          April 1 2018 19: 10
          Rather, due to the deterioration in the training of legionnaires, simplification and lightening of shields went, over time they also refused loriks, (probably it turned out expensively)
      2. +1
        April 1 2018 20: 04
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        I will make an assumption. In connection with the changing nature of the fighting, the role and number of cavalry in the army began to increase. This caused a certain unification of protective weapons.

        In general, it seems to me that you are right.
        I would just lengthen the chain. Changing economic conditions — changing the social structure of the population — changing the principles of manning the army — increasing the role of cavalry — unifying protective weapons.
        Quote: Kotischa
        But where are they all up to the classic scootum!

        Nostalgia for the classic legion of the early republic? smile I share in full. smile
        1. Cat
          +3
          April 1 2018 20: 15
          Dear Mikhail and Anton, you can’t argue with you “in this field”. You are both right.
          1. Cat
            +5
            April 1 2018 20: 29
            Just now I thought that the Roman scutum reminds me!

            Yes ShchPO-1
            1. +2
              April 1 2018 21: 36
              Moreover, now I google it, Soyuz special equipment is carrying out an unloading called Lorika.
            2. +1
              April 2 2018 17: 36
              Just now? In SchPO-1, even the ethmoid window was boiled up (this was found on late scutums) laughing Why change the design, the effectiveness of which has been proven by centuries of experience
              1. 0
                April 3 2018 22: 05
                Yes, damn it, just now !!! For unlike many advanced fellow citizens, I use pens for 12 hours a day!
        2. +2
          April 1 2018 21: 04
          I tried to cut the causal chain to the required minimum. And it will be like with Guillaume (printing from a tablet is fraught, you know ...). But in principle, as Viktor Nikolayevich says, “a topic for a separate article.”
          1. Cat
            +2
            April 1 2018 21: 08
            Yes, Anton, I have the urge to see a series of articles on the evolution of the Roman scutum in the VO, already drooling!
            1. +3
              April 1 2018 22: 06
              Already during the campaigns against Sertoria in the early 70's. BC e. became apparent
              the inability of heavily armed infantrymen to cope with various mobile groups of opponents who avoided decisive clashes. The fight against the barbarians was not of the nature of regular battles involving large masses of heavy infantry and clearly showed the increased importance of light infantry and cavalry.
              The changes in the Roman armament were caused by a whole complex of reasons, but one of the main ones was the change in the legionic tactics of warfare provoked by the new conditions in which the Roman army had to operate, including the evolution of military affairs among the opponents of the Empire.
              If it is short.
              The first notable tactical changes witnessed in the sources date back to the 30s. II century. Around 135, Flavius ​​Arrian, who served as governor of Cappadocia, described a battle order that was very different from traditional Roman construction. in which the army held an exclusively defensive position. Arrian practically deprives the Roman legionnaires of the opportunity to actively act with swords, turning them into spearmen, like phalanxes, standing in close formation.
              Naturally, such radical changes in the tactical plan should have left a deep imprint on the arms of the legionnaires, which was quickly adapted to the new conditions of warfare.
              The cylindrical scutum is a consequence of the above process, a kind of transitional link. This type of shield reached its peak of use, probably only in the reign of Trajan (98-117), and at the latest under Adrian (117-138).
              By the middle of the 120nd century on monuments, images of a large semi-cylindrical shield are becoming increasingly rare. Already in the XNUMXs. such shields begin to be gradually replaced by flat oval (clypei), which made it possible to form a denser battle order. Reliefs on the column of Marcus Aurelius and on the triumphal arch of Septimius Severus confirm this.
              A large cylindrical shield was used in the first half of the XNUMXrd century. Fragments of three shields and one almost whole specimen found in Dura Europos testify to this fact. However, later it completely goes out of use.
              By this time, apparently, the construction of the heavy infantry with the phalanx, which played the role of a probole for the light infantry and cavalry, which were supposed to attack and pursue the retreating enemy, was becoming generally accepted.
              1. +1
                April 2 2018 11: 02
                I present the story of Scutum a little differently.
                I have always believed that scutum (a growth shield of a semi-cylindrical shape is about 1,2 m long and at least 0,5 m wide) entrenched in the Roman army in the period of the early republic with the transition to the manipulative structure of the legion. While the opponents of Rome were the developed states of the central Mediterranean (Greek states, Carthage, Macedonia) or during the civil wars, they had to fight in a dense, deep, layered formation, where scutum was indispensable. Already Julius Caesar, during the Gallic war against the irregular troops, the Gauls, who fought without a system, began to build the legions phalanx-like, in one line, but during the wars with Pompey, he was forced to return to the traditional manipulative system.
                I would define the heyday of Scutum as II - I c. BC.
                The decline of Scutum, in my opinion, began with the beginning of a new era, when barbarian states became the only opponents of Rome, whose armies fought without action, and were therefore amorphous and mobile as mercury, and therefore required no less mobility from their opponents. From this period, the legionnaire’s equipment begins to lighten and the scutum leaves the arena, although it has been encountered for quite some time. It should be noted that during the time of the empire, legions gradually began to form in the provinces from local residents, the discipline was no longer the same, the ability to fight in the ranks was gradually lost, the smoothness was replaced by longer spats, the value of cavalry steadily increased ... Heavy and bulky scutums this situation has ceased to be relevant and gradually were replaced by lighter flat shields.
                1. +2
                  April 2 2018 12: 33
                  Mikhail, given that time was short, the answer was short. But in my answer I relied on Delbrück G. 1994: The history of military art in the framework of political history: 4 tons and an article in the journal Problems of History, Philology, Culture 2015, No. 3 , with. 77-90
                  A.V. Bannikov
                  REASONS AND CHARACTER OF CHANGE IN ROMAN WEAPONS (I-III centuries AD).
                  They, in turn, have a very solid source base. If you are interested, take a look. Everything is online.
                  1. +1
                    April 2 2018 13: 47
                    Yesterday I looked at Dupuy’s World History of Wars and I also have E. Razin’s five-volume book, History of the Art of War. There, the appearance of scutum dates back to the 4th c. BC. I looked at Mommsen, but I didn’t find any details about the equipment of the legionnaires, but he paid little attention to the war.
                    Vika has information about the discovery of scutum from the time of the republic in the Fayum oasis, but I did not find any photos.
                    Polybius also wrote about the scootum, although his quotes, which are given here, are clearly translations from English.
                    1. +2
                      April 2 2018 14: 03
                      Quote: Luga
                      five-volume E. Razin "History of military art."

                      Three volumes, of course, I apologize.
          2. +2
            April 1 2018 21: 24
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            But in principle, as Viktor Nikolayevich says, “a topic for a separate article.”

            At one time I wanted to systematize my knowledge of the use of heavy cavalry on the battlefields of antiquity and the Middle Ages. Compare, find similarities, differences ... Then I realized that it was too early for me, I could not. Now I understand that my level allows me to write if only about one horseshoe on the right front foot of a bay mare, third from the right in the second row of the fourth turma laughing
  6. +4
    April 1 2018 16: 17
    Quote: Rurikovich
    there will be no simple logical answers to them

    Will not, do not expect! For it is said: "Another simplicity is worse than theft!" It's like the term "simple Soviet man" - I never liked him. To me, all people seem complicated.
    1. +1
      April 1 2018 17: 15
      Quote: kalibr
      To me, all people seem complicated.

      "You can collect a flock of sheep. Try to collect it from cats"
      To explain to the illiterate what was so, and not otherwise, simply. Try to explain this already somehow educated. Is it because the educated (albeit not as real historians) require answers. And in response - "look for yourself" wink hi
      1. Cat
        +2
        April 1 2018 20: 36
        Well, somehow one "tuta" hangs out! This is me to myself.
        Moreover, in the camp of traditional historians ....
        Regarding the concrete bases of the steles, everything is simple. The British simply picked up fallen and broken stones. So a remake of pure water, British pundits are still those entertainers. For the sake of grants and an increase in tourist flow, not such feints will be soaked.
    2. +2
      April 2 2018 18: 10
      Quote: kalibr
      the term "simple Soviet man" - I never liked him.

      as there is ABS:
      “Of course, Comrade Junta, as a former foreigner and church worker, is allowed to be mistaken at times, but you, Comrade Oira-Oira, and you, Fedor Simeonovich, are ordinary Russian people!
      - P-stop demagoguery! - finally exploded, and Fedor Simeonovich. - K-how are you not ashamed to carry such nonsense? What kind of n-simple person am I? And what kind of word is this - n-simple? This d-duplicate is simple! .. "
      1. +1
        April 2 2018 20: 03
        That’s exactly what I remembered ... I always remembered "Monday ..."!
  7. +3
    April 1 2018 16: 19
    Quote: Artek
    .Colon is overwater, and therefore collapses

    That is, remodelers are destroyed, but remodelers are not:
    1. +2
      April 1 2018 17: 21

      Strange how the Druids of Stonehenge built ... On a concrete base, or what ?? what
      1. +2
        April 1 2018 17: 38
        And you climb to the English sites and read where it came from there ... It's simple!
        1. +1
          April 1 2018 17: 48
          Quote: kalibr
          And you climb to the English sites and read where it came from.

          Do you also teach your students in English?
          You explain to me in Russian - I’m talking to you in Russian hi
          1. Cat
            +3
            April 1 2018 20: 45
            Dear Rurikovich, I answered you above, to the question.
          2. +2
            April 1 2018 21: 12
            A similar question has been asked by some people to others already ... for millennia. You think you're the only one so smart that you want easy answers - yes or no? There are no such things and I can’t give them to you either in Russian or in English. You see, my level of awareness suits me and I'm not interested in going down to yours. In addition, they do not pay me for educational program. Do you work for free? Me not! But I work where I'm interested. Where you are interested ... I do not. So I say - look for the answers yourself. Moreover, they will become valuable to you.
            1. 0
              April 1 2018 21: 48
              Quote: kalibr
              A similar question has been asked by some people to others already ... for millennia. You think you're the only one so smart that you want easy answers - yes or no? There are no such things and I can’t give them to you either in Russian or in English. You see, my level of awareness suits me and I'm not interested in going down to yours. In addition, they do not pay me for educational program. Do you work for free? Me not! But I work where I'm interested. Where you are interested ... I do not. So I say - look for the answers yourself.

              All hi There are no more questions smile
        2. 0
          April 2 2018 11: 31
          Quote: kalibr
          And you climb to the English sites and read where it came from there ... It's simple!

          this is a good answer, look and find, maybe ...
  8. +1
    April 1 2018 17: 40
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Try to explain this already somehow educated.

    “Somehow” is not my audience.
    1. +1
      April 1 2018 17: 54
      Quote: kalibr
      “Somehow” is not my audience.

      thanks for the compliment hi I meant comparing the current level of education with the level of commercials two hundred years ago .....
  9. +2
    April 1 2018 17: 45
    Quote: Rurikovich
    at least somehow

    It's horrible. Here you have been working on a topic for 17 years and you are only just beginning to understand something. And then "at least somehow" and I understood everything! What a talented people we are.
    1. Cat
      +1
      April 1 2018 20: 53
      There is nothing Vyacheslav Olegovich, still small and young on the heels will be advancing, or are already advancing.
      Once I already remembered the cat of my mother Barsik. So he kept a bump for about five years in a gut. Then his children grew up and ..... dad very hard turned under the old age. Six years have passed since Barsika was gone, and all the street cats of his white-gray-black color.
      1. +1
        April 1 2018 21: 06
        You know, I do not mind! Young road, it’s natural. But ... to the point! And when I didn’t read it, I don’t know, but take it out and put it on me - fire it.
        1. +2
          April 1 2018 22: 12
          Quote: kalibr
          but take it out and lay it down for me.

          I asked you to answer a question in Russian (give a link, etc.) Instead, I actually heard the sending somewhere far away. Just give a link in Russian ... AND EVERYTHING. I read it myself .... BUT request
          Excuse me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, personally for me you, as a historian, have died ....
          I will not appear in the comments on your articles (concerning “ancient” history), with the exception of the naval topics of recent years 100-120, so as not to embarrass the highest impulses of carrying the correct history to the masses with my ignorance, dullness, curiosity ...
          Best regards hi
          PS I think you and I will not grieve
  10. +1
    April 2 2018 18: 14
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Excuse me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, personally for me you, as a historian, have died ....

    I don’t know how to survive such a reprimand unexpected. But now he listened to himself ... there was no heartbeat, the appetite was normal ... I checked my bank account - in order. Well then everything is OK!
  11. 0
    April 8 2018 13: 25
    voyaka uh,

    https://lorien22.livejournal.com/308509.html



    Google gives a lot of photos on demand - swastika in the synagogue Israel

  12. 0
    April 13 2018 07: 49
    Quote: Artek
    The precisely measured height of this column is 29,6 m, and the height of the pedestal is 10 m. Thus, the height of the monument was once 41,95 m, but then three meters of its base after restoration in 1589 were below ground level.

    Perhaps a remake, but still not very fresh, older than 300-350 years ... drew attention to the phrase in the article: "The precisely measured height of this column is 29,6 m, and the height of the pedestal is 10 m. Thus, the height of the monument it used to be 41,95 m, but then three meters of its foundation after restoration in 1589 turned out to be below ground level, "is it a pity the author cited few photographs, the level of foundations of houses of 16-17 centuries of construction also 3 meters below the current ground level?

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