Military Review

"Javelin" is half the problem. MMP - this is a new headache for the Russian defense industry

180



The provision to the Ukrainian side of a US package of gratuitous military aid worth more than 49 million led to a whole flurry of different visions of further changes in the tactical situation on the Donbass theater of war, which was constantly “warmed up” by military-political shakes. Absolutely nothing surprising in this squall of opinions there, because not a batch of outdated TOW-2A ATGM, but 36 ATGM of the 3 generation Javelin and 210 of anti-tank guided missiles FGM-148 to it will fall into the hands of the inadequate opinion. Some of our “experts” and patriotic bastards tend to either underestimate the tactical and technical characteristics and advantages of the Javelin complex on the battlefield, or even completely declare the complete absence of any positive tactical effect from the use of Darts in the Donbas theater of operations. In practice, everything will be completely different.

Even 4 — 5 launchers of the Javelin anti-tank complex and a couple of dozen FGM-148 missiles will be able to give the Ukrainian military formations a serious tactical advantage in the operational direction, the relief of which abounds in a large number of folds, closely spaced lowlands and elevations, and forest stands. Ukrainian operators of Javelinov, trained by Western specialists, will only have to wait until T-64BB or T-72А / АВ / Б 1 AK of the people's militia of the DPR, at least 25 — 35 seconds, will be in view of the combined television and thermal sight (PUF, - aiming launcher) and at a distance of no more than 2200 — 2500 m. After that, the operator will only need to point the 4 multiple of the daily and 9 multiple thermal sight on the detected tank, and then mark the target with a special marker cursor. During this process, the FGM-148 GPS will receive target designation from the PUF and “capture” the target, the operator will start and be able to instantly move to the shelter or change the firing position without being in the enemy’s optical-electronic field of view, which is controlled by a laser beam anti-tank 9М133-1 “Cornet-E” missiles belonging to the 2 generation.

Consequently, the Javelin operators should not be on the line of sight of the target (in open positions) during the march phase of the ATGM flight path to the target. “Competitions-M”, which are in service with the army corps of the LDNR, require it; Kornety-E will also be demanded (in case of their transfer to NM LDNR as military assistance). But if in the case of the 9М113М rocket of the Konkurs-M complex it is not so easy to calculate the position of the anti-tank player (thanks to the radio command control by wire), then with 9М133-1 "Cornet-E" the situation is somewhat more complicated: the emitter of the laser control channel is easily unmasked the position of the "Cornet" on the march of the flight. In the end, another unpleasant moment emerges: an intense backfire from rifle weapons and enemy BMP / BTR automatic guns in the direction of the Kornet complex operator can easily disrupt the process of semi-automatic guidance of the 9M133-1 missile to the target. Try to clearly keep the crosshair of the 1PN79M Metis-2 sight on the enemy tankwhen the M25 Bushmaster AP, or even the standard M242 120-mm tank gun with high-explosive shells, works for you.

As for the tight response fire according to the Javelin ATGM (if it can be detected immediately after the FGM-148 leaves the transport and “tube”), it will not affect the effectiveness of hitting the target, since the infrared missile allows the missile to act completely independently, regardless of the fate of the operator and the M98A2 launcher with a combined all-day sight. Based on the above, we make a final conclusion: “Javelins” are very formidable for the mechanized units of the LDNR People’s Militia weapons not only in urban areas, but also in the conditions of the steppe landscape zone characteristic of most of Donbass, and in particular for the Azov region. This zone is replete with both natural and artificial comfortable positions for deploying FGM-148 "Javelin". Moreover, in most parts of the contact line, the distance between the defense units of the LDNR military corps and the Ukrainian military formations that hold the defense is only 500 — 1000 m, which allows the Ukrainian Armed Forces to start using the Darts almost immediately, as the positions will be prepared already in advance. Significant disadvantages of the Javelin anti-tank missile system include:

- the need for 17 — 20-second cooling of the matrix infrared photodetector of the GOS based on the CdHgTe semiconductor solid solution for faster and more stable “capture” of targets that do not strongly contrast with the environment (under unfavorable circumstances this time may be quite enough to reveal the operator’s location by means of portable radar of artillery reconnaissance or optical-electronic means of the enemy);
- the impossibility of working on “cold” targets, the thermal “portrait” of which fully coincides with the thermal signature of the environment;
- the huge dependence of the effectiveness of the work of IKGSN on the meteorological situation in the theater of operations (fog, snowfall), as well as on such factors as the smoke and the use of aerosols by the enemy to prevent the spread of infrared radiation;
- the dependence of the GOS on the use of self-made "thermal caps", fixed on the sections of the MTO armored vehicles, including self-made thermal screens made of the inner layers of the carimat and the main dimension based on several dozen foil layers and dense cellophane;
- the lack of radio correction of the FGM-148 flight trajectory from the ATGM operator control terminal, as well as the impossibility of re-capturing a higher-priority ground target that was suddenly discovered by the shooter of the Javelin complex.


However, all of the above disadvantages do not negate the highest efficiency of the FGM-148 ATGM within the framework of the officially announced tactical and technical parameters (range 2500 m in the Block I modification and armor penetration of the order of 800 mm steel equivalent, when hitting the vulnerable upper projection of MBT or BIP); Moreover, neither the "Cape" nor the home-made means of reducing the infrared visibility of tanks in the armies of the Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics have been implemented. And the time is running out, exactly as the first installments of Javelin are already preparing to be sent to the “Square”. It is worth noting that in recent years, these complexes entered the armament of the Estonian army in the number of transport-launching “tubes” with the CPN M80A98 and 2 ATGM FGM-350 Block 148 / I, and are also planned to be adopted by the Georgian army in the number of 0 installations and 72 rockets.

Given that the majority of our MBT T-72B3 and T-80, which are part of the 1 Guards Tank Army, are still not equipped with KAZ Arena, the picture is very unruly, requiring very quick response. After all, even if we take into account the ability of the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems to intercept the JG-148 “Javelin” slow-fired anti-tank guided missile systems (the 400 flight speed is 450 km / h), it would be extremely illogical to constantly use anti-aircraft weapons for these purposes. There are all chances to “crush” much more serious and dangerous objects threatening tank units on the march, for example, 227-mm guided missiles M30 / XM30 GMLRS / GUMLRS included in the RSRS MLRS and HIMARS nomenclature.

In recent days, the more advanced MMP anti-tank missile system (Missile Moyenne Portee, the Medium-Range Missile), developed by the French division of MBDA with 2009, on its own initiative, and then, with 2011, under the program to replace obsolete anti-tank systems of the MILAN family. The active phase of the MMP project was launched in 2013, which was supported by financial support from the French Defense Ministry, whose specialists were able to look at the MBDA proposal at times more advanced alternative to the 76 purchased by the Javelin ATGM system in 2010, and there was something to see. Indeed, the developer’s plans were to design not only the standard ATGM in the MMT version (the range of 4000 m, 1,6 times more than the Javelins), but also the more long-range version of the MHT, capable of hitting enemy targets at a distance of 8000 — 10000 m, which comparable to the Israeli Spike-ER (NT-Dandy). And such a model is capable of satisfying the demands of the French army in the network-centric wars of the 21st century and participating in very ambitious and promising tenders announced by the same India. The movement in this direction is already being observed: representatives of the Indian Armed Forces began negotiations with MBDA on the possible supply of the MMP complex back in early February of the year 2014.

We are now more interested in not the export potential of the advanced French ATGM, but the volume of orders from the domestic consumer - the French Armed Forces and the technical features of the MMP and MHT versions that will be opposed to the Russian Armed Forces in the European theater of operations. On the first point, everything is very expected: 20 launchers and 50 ATGM systems in the MMP modification (the first batch delivered to the troops in 2017) reached operational operational readiness. By the 25th year, this amount should be 400 and 1750 units. accordingly, what the western news and the military-analytical publication www.armyrecognition.com on March 19, 2018. Even later - about 2850 missiles in two versions, as indicated in the original contract. The figures are very impressive, especially after the observed degree of “sagging” of the French elite under the imperial diplomatic and military-political “hops” of London and Washington in relation to the Skripal case and the preparation of an attack on Syria. Obviously, in the event of large-scale military events, this product will be used against us to the full.


Tests of ATGM 5-th generation MMP


The most important technical advantage of the MMP / MHP before the “Javelin” can be considered a dual-band uncooled infrared-television homing head, which does not need preliminary 17-second cooling of the matrix receiver. As a result, the gunner-operator can launch the rocket instantly after receiving target designation from third-party sources or the direction finding of the object by means of an optical-electronic sighting system mounted on a tripod with a “tube” -PU. In the first case (when receiving targeting from third-party sources), the ATGM can be launched from a closed firing position (“Javelin” is not capable of this). At the same time, the MBDA decided to return to the classical scheme of command guidance and correction of the MMP flight path over the fiber optic wire.

This conductor sends a video stream from the TV module of the GPS to the sighting device located outside the line of sight with the aim of the arrow operator, which will allow you to track the battlefield with virtually “rocket eyes”. Thanks to the two-way channel of information and command exchange, the shooter-operator can adjust the flight of the MMP until it hits the target; It can also fly around targets for damage to the least protected side projection (NLOS mode, “Non Line of Sight”). Also, there is an inaccessible for “FGM-148” mode of “retargeting” (“Man-in-the-Loop”), and, of course, the “fired-forgotten” mode using an infrared channel. It is noteworthy that the use of a fiber-optic channel in the NLOS mode virtually eliminates the possibility of targeting two-way communication of critical interference to the line, up to the failure of the task. Our only countermeasure remains the speedy adoption by the army air defense of high-frequency EMI generators of the “Ranets-E” type (or newer analogues), “burning out” the MMP / MHP missile-guided avionics of the airborne electromagnetic beam, laser complexes capable of disabling the dual-channel GOS, and All this in conjunction with the classic complexes of active protection.

Information sources:
http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=19910
https://www.armyrecognition.com/france_french_army_light_and_heavy_weapons_uk/mmp_mbda_medium_range_anti-tank_surface-to-surface_missile_data.html
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/mmp/
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/cornet/cornet.shtml
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180 comments
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  1. Vard
    Vard 21 March 2018 06: 08
    +8
    A tank buried in the tower as a target for jewels is not visible at all ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 21 March 2018 06: 16
      +18
      I believe air surveillance systems will quickly calculate the location of the Javelin’s calculations and cover them at the time of preparation for the shot with fire.
      In modern combat, the main thing is not to let the enemy reveal themselves ahead of time ... otherwise a quick death.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 36
        +30
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I believe air surveillance systems will quickly calculate the location of the Javelin’s calculations and cover them at the time of preparation for the shot with fire.

        Excuse me, what army are you talking about? Let me remind you that the Javelins will be opposed by the People’s Militia (which is still remembered as the militia) of the LDNR, which needs a lot, which lacks modern weapons, auxiliary technical means!
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 21 March 2018 07: 40
          +16
          The "Javelins" will be opposed by the People’s Militia (which is still commemorated by the militia) of the LDNR, which needs a lot, which lacks modern weapons, auxiliary technical means!

          what The question is ... interesting of course ... how else is this militia held against a many times superior enemy and is still armed to the teeth.
          I don’t know what to say ... the war is not a Hollywood movie ... maybe they will find an antidote against the praised Javelins.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 56
            +17
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            how else is this militia held against a many times superior enemy and is armed to the teeth so far.

            Because the "enemy" has not yet used to the "fullest" accumulated to date, "multiple superiority"! Russia "interferes" ...
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            ..can and find an antidote against the praised Javelins.

            I would like .... Only this antidote had to be found "yesterday"!
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 21 March 2018 10: 45
              +23
              Nikolaevich I (Vladimir) Today, 07:56 ↑
              Because the "enemy" has not yet used to the "fullest" accumulated to date, "multiple superiority"!
              And why? Yes, because ...
              Russia "interferes" ...
              So you yourself and answered the question.
              In general, according to the article, some strange feeling of surrealism. Like in that joke: sorry, comrade general, but that in our army I am fighting alone ... laughing The conduct of modern combat is not limited to the battle of tanks alone with the calculations of the "Javelins." And then 210 guided missiles can hit a maximum of 210 tanks, and then what? As far as I understand, LDNRs are not going to go on the offensive first, right or wrong? And in defense it is not necessary to bring tanks under the sight of these complexes into the open. Further, ATGMs total 36 pieces, which must be distributed along the entire front, or concentrated on tank-dangerous directions. This requires intelligence. Again, in the event of an aggravation of the conflict, I strongly doubt that Russia will be on the sidelines. And this means that all APU intelligence systems will be suppressed immediately. And our intelligence, I think, will not pick a finger in the nose. I'm not saying that we will throw all our hats, but to reduce everything to the fact that the "Javelin" panacea for the Armed Forces is also stupid. The battle with the Javelins alone cannot be won, but they will destroy some part of the armored vehicles, but that’s all. The battle is fought by soldiers, not weapons in themselves. But with the soldiers from Ukraine, as it is not so. No, I’m not arguing that over the past 3-4 years the APU has greatly increased, but nevertheless they are still inferior in terms of morale to LDNR. Again, fighting cannot be won by one fighting spirit, but who said that Russia will not hand over the corresponding weapons and specialists to LDNR?
              That is why the APU is limited to a war of exhaustion, with shelling of the residential sector, and does not go on the offensive in full growth and with a drum battle.
              So the article is so, about nothing ...
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 12: 55
                +4
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                The conduct of modern combat is not limited to the battle of tanks alone with the calculations of the "Javelins."

                So, it’s clear that you shouldn’t just keep in mind the tanks ... But the strengthening of the technical equipment of the Armed Forces is gradually taking place in many positions. If not for everyone ... Maybe it could be "not too bad", if there were no lag in the LDNR corps ... but it is, unfortunately, observed. In the LDNR situation, subject to the number and technical superiority of the AFU, the tank "park" of the People’s Police is actually the main "counterargument" of the LDNR! This force should be "hoped" ... it must be "cherished" and prepared for the expected dirty tricks. and in no case do not "bury" the tanks! Active defense with the transition at every “convenient” case in a counterattack ... creating an enemy constant threat of encirclement, girths, breakthroughs - in general, high maneuverability - this is the destiny of successful combat operations of tank units and the LDNR army as a whole. But this will not be easy to implement if ukro aviation is used. Here you have one of the main tasks of LDNR and Russia - strengthening (numerically and organizationally) military air defense, creating "tricky" reasons for the impossibility of a massive use of aviation.
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                nevertheless, in fighting spirit, they are still inferior to LDNR.

                I do not claim that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have a "high morale", but ... is the morale of the Armed Forces so high at present, as you would like? From time to time there are reports that many competent, motivated military personnel (volunteers from Russia) are "squeezed out" of the Armed Forces of the Republic .. Given the scale of unemployment in the Donbass, a good (by the standards of the LDP) monetary allowance in the corps of the republics; they go there not only to protect their land .but also on the "salary" ... And the corruption existing in the republics in state structures (and in the Armed Forces) contributes to this ... in one way or another.

                Quote: Varyag_0711
                who said that Russia will not transfer to LDNR the corresponding weapons and specialists?

                And who said that he would give? what
                1. Varyag_0711
                  Varyag_0711 21 March 2018 13: 12
                  +11
                  I agree on all points. I just did not understand why the author bothered to write such a voluminous and comprehensive "work".
                  For me, this is an article from the MYFSEUMREM series that I didn’t notice any serious analytics here. In general, VO got messy in terms of the quality of the articles, and not only that, some comments simply stupor their "adequacy". Take at least the same individual with the nickname "proHfessor", "adequate" is still the same. negative
              2. Vadivak
                Vadivak 22 March 2018 13: 52
                +2
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                And then 210 guided missiles can hit a maximum of 210 tanks, and then what?

                X .... imagine ....... 210 tanks for a minute 2 tank brigades
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                but to reduce everything to the fact that the "Javelin" panacea for the APU is also stupid

                And here I agree. Plus ukro-commerce. Russian money in the American equivalent is the best enemy of the Ukrainian "Javelina". Selling mother dear, not like a dart
            2. pilot8878
              pilot8878 21 March 2018 10: 49
              +5
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              the "enemy" has not yet used to "the fullest extent", accumulated to date, "multiple superiority"! Russia "interferes" ...

              And who told you that from now on will not interfere? As long as the leadership of the Russian Federation has an interest in LDNR, deliveries of the North Wind will not stop. With very serious complications in the ranks of NM LDNR, the number of “vacationers” from the RF Armed Forces can sharply increase again, no one has yet canceled Wagner PMCs, they were noted in Lugansk.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 11: 58
                +1
                Quote: pilot8878
                And who told you that from now on will not interfere?

                And who told you that I doubt it? And I hope for a "better future"! But the world is not without "surprises"! I would not predict: the world situation will or will not change; and how fast (or how slowly ...) It’s good to hope for a strong “uncle”, but you can’t even fool yourself ... But there are problems in the republics ... well, when they are “objective” (what can you do?!), but what about the "subjective" ... which might not have been?
            3. opsmaster
              opsmaster 21 March 2018 13: 44
              +1
              You forget that as soon as the dill goes on the offensive, Russia will carry out the operation "Forcing Peace", and here they will not be helped by any Javelins ....
            4. Dimka off
              Dimka off 21 March 2018 18: 44
              -1
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              I would like .... Only this antidote had to be found "yesterday"!

              So it’s like they found on the T-14
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 22 March 2018 08: 28
                +1
                Quote: Dimka off
                So it’s like they found on the T-14

                And they were found in the USSR (KAZs "Rain", "Drozd", "Arena") ... But they were produced extremely little (cost !!!), and in the Donbass there was not a single militia (I think ..) It would be a long time to upgrade the "Curtain" (for example, replace the IR projector with a laser ..., add IR / UV detection / tracking sensors ...), but now there is no "Curtain-2" or "Curtain-3" .. .
          2. Dimka off
            Dimka off 21 March 2018 18: 43
            0
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I don’t know what to say ... the war is not a Hollywood movie ... maybe they will find an antidote against the praised Javelins.

            Russia will begin to enforce peace.
        2. horhe48
          horhe48 21 March 2018 11: 20
          +2
          Yes, there will be a lot of problems, especially with counterattacks .. But the Ukrainians are going to attack first. They will rake on the first one. And when their own and other armored vehicles mix up on the battlefield, it will be dangerous and dangerous to use their own weapons. In addition, it is possible and necessary to create something like heat traps so that burning barrels, tires, burning smoke munitions create such a background and smoke screen, so that it would be difficult for the Javelins to find the tank they are looking for. I hope that the LDNR military are preparing to the use of new state ATGMs and are developing comprehensive measures to reduce the effectiveness of their application. Well, the Russian Armed Forces must quietly throw them some new “things” for testing in real combat conditions.
        3. Mih1974
          Mih1974 21 March 2018 17: 30
          0
          The best help from Russia for Novorossia in terms of combating the "javelins" would be "renting out" a couple of ships with "calibers". tongue good And publicly announce it. What would Kiev banderlog leaders know for sure - a couple of “chumodans” can send a love moment to them
        4. Lex.
          Lex. 21 March 2018 19: 52
          0
          And that they will not find a quadcopter to shoot?
        5. medvedron
          medvedron 21 March 2018 22: 51
          +4
          This is for you to note. Since November 2014, quadcopters with cameras have been heavily used in the DPR. This is the first, and the second show me such a moron who without art training will throw tanks into battle. And one more question about such cool Javelins, why are they not in Syria, or are there Americans no longer having interests?
        6. Hyperboreas
          Hyperboreas 22 March 2018 07: 00
          0
          You are like a child, indeed !!
    2. Professor
      Professor 21 March 2018 06: 22
      +24
      Quote: Vard
      A tank buried in the tower as a target for jewels is not visible at all ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...

      Yes Yes. Tell it to the Armenians.



      Administration. Give back the opportunity to rate articles.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 21 March 2018 06: 26
        +2
        All professor to you Khan ... I welcome you hi smile surrendered the enemy tank positions.
        1. Professor
          Professor 21 March 2018 06: 28
          +14
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Greetings

          Goodbye. I'm articles Author: Evgeny Damantsev I do not comment. Enough with me. "ATGM tests 5 generation MMP. "
          1. Evil543
            Evil543 21 March 2018 09: 04
            +7
            No, they will return the minus and the professor will smooth you over them.
            1. Firework
              Firework 21 March 2018 11: 56
              +2
              Professor know from me you always + get, for an independent judgment
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 21 March 2018 06: 58
        +14
        Professor, you don’t have to poke your finger at the Armenians - there the tanks were not destroyed by Jewels. AND YOU KNOW IT! fool
        1. rotmistr60
          rotmistr60 21 March 2018 07: 07
          +15
          And it’s all for the professor. The main fly in the ointment and in a big way. Regarding the article, I want to say - the author, thank you for the lecture, but we also didn’t do anything with our finger in the Russian Defense Ministry.
          1. Evil543
            Evil543 21 March 2018 09: 06
            +3
            It feels like lectures are made on the basis of Wiki
        2. Professor
          Professor 21 March 2018 07: 50
          +16
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Professor, you don’t have to poke your finger at the Armenians - there the tanks were not destroyed by Jewels. AND YOU KNOW IT! fool

          Twisted at the temple. Set up a mechanism? Get smarter? wink

          Quote: Ingvar 72
          there tanks were not destroyed by Jewels.

          We read carefully before we get into a dialogue.
          Quote: Vard
          A tank buried in the tower as a target for Jewels is not completely visible ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...


          All good mood. hi
          1. serg999
            serg999 21 March 2018 10: 47
            +6
            Azeri destroyed Armenian tanks by aviation, therefore
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Quote: inkass_98
            Damantsev, as always, brings fear

            (Never say never!) The world is not predictable! And there may be “surprises” ... (the farther into the forest, ... the “Javelins (and MMR)“ closer ”! The military-technical superiority of the Armed Forces against LDNR is gradually becoming manifest!

            I don’t know, I don’t know ... Something of this “manifest” you can’t find out with fire during the day ... So far, I've only specialized in boilers (getting into them), but to fight civilians ... But in what else serious they won the battle?
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 21 March 2018 20: 55
            0
            Quote: Professor
            We read carefully before we get into a dialogue.

            Summed up? Armenian tanks were destroyed with the help of drones. by the way Israeli, but not with the help of missiles with automatic guidance.
            Catechism drives! fool
            1. Professor
              Professor 21 March 2018 20: 58
              +5
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Quote: Professor
              We read carefully before we get into a dialogue.

              Summed up? Armenian tanks were destroyed with the help of drones. by the way Israeli, but not with the help of missiles with automatic guidance.
              Catechism drives! fool

              Of course with the help ofЗpilots. How else did the Azerbaijanis know their exact location? Directly destroyed the best ATGM tanks.
              And you twist at your temple, twist. Maybe something will work out.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 21 March 2018 21: 02
                +2
                Quote: Professor
                no-pilot

                I write so intentionally, according to the old pre-revolutionary rules of the Russian language, where the absence of something was indicated by the prefix WITHOUT, not WITHOUT.
                Quote: Professor
                Directly destroyed the best ATGM tanks.

                With carrier drones? wink By the way, if your best fourth carrots were standing there, then the same fate would await them.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 22 March 2018 07: 38
                  +3
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  I write so intentionally, according to the old pre-revolutionary rules of the Russian language, where the absence of something was indicated by the prefix WITHOUT, not WITHOUT.

                  The whole company does not keep up, but he keeps up. wassat

                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  With carrier drones? By the way, if your best fourth carrots were standing there, then the same fate would await them.

                  No, not from drones. Spikes have enough range (up to 30 km) to get a tank at any line.
                  And the four and three would likely have been waiting for another fate.
                  1. Fisher martin
                    Fisher martin 22 March 2018 11: 57
                    0
                    Where did you see Spikes here?
      3. Mardvahe
        Mardvahe 21 March 2018 07: 15
        +4
        Actually, here is the work of spikes
      4. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 40
        +5
        Professor! Do not respond to the "little things"! This is not your "caliber"! We ourselves "gouging" ,, buried tanks "!
      5. vkl.47
        vkl.47 21 March 2018 08: 14
        +11
        The professor again feykametit. The Armenian tank in Karabakh was blown up not by a javelin but by a kamikaze drone. It’s good to drive a blizzard
        1. seos
          seos 21 March 2018 09: 03
          +8
          Javelin has the function of firing without capturing a target - by the type whom God will send to .... (it is doubtful that it will be used like that because an expensive toy)
          The problem of all Soviet tanks is the lack of an auxiliary generator ... when the tank is in the caponier the engine is running at full ... and the heating is corresponding ...
          An umbrella must be placed above the tank, to disguise it from above ...
      6. Vard
        Vard 21 March 2018 08: 19
        +5
        Here the work of Spikes ... guidance by the operator ... but he shot and forgot not to give a ride ...
      7. uhu189
        uhu189 21 March 2018 10: 33
        +4
        As far as I remember, dear Professor, these tanks were destroyed by planning ammunition, or otherwise kamikaze drones, as they wrote in the news. And this is not the same all the same as a conventional missile with automatic guidance
        1. Mardvahe
          Mardvahe 21 March 2018 15: 17
          +5
          During the war, they used the Harop UAV, but the tanks were lined with spycomi. Harops were unfairly doing PR. If the memory does not change, then from 12-14 starts of hits there were 4-5. They are too big and easily go astray. Even Azerbaijan today buys other models based on orbiters
      8. MKPU-115
        MKPU-115 21 March 2018 21: 03
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Vard
        A tank buried in the tower as a target for jewels is not visible at all ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...

        Yes Yes. Tell it to the Armenians.



        Administration. Give back the opportunity to rate articles.

        Because the Armenians did not learn military affairs in the present way.
        Countermeasures in defense:
        1. From improvised means: tarpaulin, logs to the coast, earth - greatly reduce the infrared thermal signature of armored objects;
        2. The “hat”, it seems like it was developed in our school, also distorts the infrared signature of military vehicles from improvised means;
        3. Well, again, from improvised means, a sheet of iron over a fire 5-10 meters from the combat vehicle, and preferably 2 sheets;
        4. A pair of penny reflectors of the laser beam in front and hang from the side of the stick;
        5. Install a corner reflector, or rather several, they are made on the knees of scrap metal in about 30 minutes.
        Well, etc. I will not tell all the intricacies, there is not enough space here.
      9. medvedron
        medvedron 21 March 2018 22: 54
        0
        And where in this video is the trigger shown, and why is it javelin? Or are you so gray just to spit?
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 29
      +4
      Quote: Vard
      A tank buried in the tower as a target for jewels is not visible at all ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...

      Do you offer to fight with tanks "buried in the tower"? belay Turn on the "thinker"! You forgot to do it ...
    4. Falcond
      Falcond 21 March 2018 07: 44
      +1
      Do you offer to bury all tanks ???
      1. Vard
        Vard 21 March 2018 08: 15
        +1
        Given the specifics of hostilities ... militias in the defense ... it will be the right decision ...
        1. seos
          seos 21 March 2018 09: 04
          +3
          Their artillery will crush ... and quickly ...
          1. MKPU-115
            MKPU-115 21 March 2018 21: 09
            +1
            Quote: seos
            Their artillery will crush ... and quickly ...

            It is necessary to bury wisely. There is such a thing as a “wandering tank” in defense, when several firing positions are made in advance and it changes them under natural or artificial coverings (moat, house, frequent shrubs, etc.)
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 13: 39
          +5
          Quote: Vard
          Given the specifics of hostilities ... militias in the defense ... it will be the right decision

          Buried tanks on the defensive? This is passive defense! This is the death of the tank units of the LDNR!
          My opinion:
          . In the situation of LDNR, subject to the numerical and technical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in a number of respects, the tank "park" of the People’s Police is actually the main "counterargument" of the LDNR! This force should be "hoped" ... it must be "cherished" and prepared for the expected dirty tricks. and in no case do not "bury" the tanks! Active defense with the transition at every “convenient” case in a counterattack ... creating an enemy constant threat of encirclement, girths, breakthroughs - in general, high maneuverability - this is the destiny of successful combat operations of tank units and the LDNR army as a whole. But this will not be easy to implement if ukro aviation is used. Here you have one of the main tasks of LDNR and Russia - strengthening (numerically and organizationally) military air defense, creating "tricky" reasons for the impossibility of a massive use of aviation.
          1. MKPU-115
            MKPU-115 21 March 2018 21: 11
            +1
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Quote: Vard
            Given the specifics of hostilities ... militias in the defense ... it will be the right decision

            Buried tanks on the defensive? This is passive defense! This is the death of the tank units of the LDNR!
            My opinion:
            . In the situation of LDNR, subject to the numerical and technical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in a number of respects, the tank "park" of the People’s Police is actually the main "counterargument" of the LDNR! This force should be "hoped" ... it must be "cherished" and prepared for the expected dirty tricks. and in no case do not "bury" the tanks! Active defense with the transition at every “convenient” case in a counterattack ... creating an enemy constant threat of encirclement, girths, breakthroughs - in general, high maneuverability - this is the destiny of successful combat operations of tank units and the LDNR army as a whole. But this will not be easy to implement if ukro aviation is used. Here you have one of the main tasks of LDNR and Russia - strengthening (numerically and organizationally) military air defense, creating "tricky" reasons for the impossibility of a massive use of aviation.

            How many tactics are there for you)))) You should read BUSS at least for a start: platoon, squad, tank, before writing x *** y here.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 22 March 2018 02: 06
              +1
              Quote: MKPU-115
              You read BUSS at least for a start

              Well yes ! Bullshit war ... the main thing is the rules! In Afghanistan, too, they wanted to fight only "according to the charter" ...
    5. Topgun
      Topgun 21 March 2018 12: 39
      +2
      javelin "sees" the tank even if the engine does not work - because it is iron (iron does not have the same temperature as the surrounding leaves and houses - different materials in nature heat differently and give off heat differently, and their temperature is different, iron is not a natural material and contrasts with the surroundings, take a look at the video of launches at the training grounds for tanks - do they have motors working? no! they just stand in the field and the complex is pointing at them) the tower will stick out - they will aim at the tower ...
      once again - the javelin can also be aimed at the house, at anything - the main difference is the temperature difference so that the target stands out ...
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 21 March 2018 14: 29
        +3
        Quote: Topgun
        once again - the javelin can also be aimed at the house, at anything - the main difference is the temperature difference so that the target stands out ...

        in in. You can go to the house. on a standing tank you can. you can point at almost anything! only he was never pointed at a moving object.
        what for him such a confused guidance system if it is used only for stationary objects? request
        if in doubt, find at least one video of shooting at a moving object. I did not find. even on demos didn’t dare wink
        1. Professor
          Professor 21 March 2018 20: 24
          +5
          Quote: seos
          Javelin has the function of firing without capturing a target - by the type whom God will send to .... (it is doubtful that it will be used like that because an expensive toy)

          Full knowledge of the materiel. And 6 of those who do not understand the pluses. Read the JO articles on Javelin. Everything is intelligible there. Not for myself, I tried.

          Quote: SanichSan
          what for him such a confused guidance system if it is used only for stationary objects?
          if in doubt, find at least one video of shooting at a moving object. I did not find. even on demos didn’t dare

          Look for "Kurdistan + Javelin + Jeep" and you will be lucky.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 22 March 2018 17: 21
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Look for "Kurdistan + Javelin + Jeep" and you will be lucky.

            found laughing
            By the way, I did not understand, but what does the French special forces do in the north of Syria?
      2. MKPU-115
        MKPU-115 21 March 2018 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: Topgun
        javelin "sees" the tank even if the engine does not work - because it is iron (iron does not have the same temperature as the surrounding leaves and houses - different materials in nature heat differently and give off heat differently, and their temperature is different, iron is not a natural material and contrasts with the surroundings, take a look at the video of launches at the training grounds for tanks - do they have motors working? no! they just stand in the field and the complex is pointing at them) the tower will stick out - they will aim at the tower ...
        once again - the javelin can also be aimed at the house, at anything - the main difference is the temperature difference so that the target stands out ...

        Two bonfires next to the armored object covered with iron sheets) yes
        According to the mind, a thermal simulator, in combination with other means, is all included in military engineering training, the losers die themselves and ruin their unit.
    6. MINER 008
      MINER 008 21 March 2018 17: 42
      +4
      I suppose that it is possible to make mock-ups of tanks made of sheet metal with a gas burner inside for radiation and a javelina costing considerable, will be used very irrationally.
      1. MKPU-115
        MKPU-115 21 March 2018 21: 23
        +3
        Quote: MINER 008
        I suppose that it is possible to make mock-ups of tanks made of sheet metal with a gas burner inside for radiation and a javelina costing considerable, will be used very irrationally.

        good It has long been invented and done.
    7. aws4
      aws4 21 March 2018 19: 15
      0
      it is not true!!!!!!!!!!!!
    8. 73bor
      73bor 21 March 2018 20: 41
      +2
      Well, let ISIS have these "Javelins" in large numbers, as well as other ATGMs and, moreover, more advanced ones, but somehow I did not notice that the alignment was somehow changing in their favor! Ukrainians have other problems in LDNR and these are by no means tanks, but 40 "javelins" of weather at the front will not do!
    9. Yura Trushkin
      Yura Trushkin 24 March 2018 17: 48
      0
      And underground beauty is generally moving !!!
    10. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 24 March 2018 18: 21
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      A tank buried in the tower as a target for Jewels is not completely visible ...


      A tank buried in the tower, the tank no longer appears.
    11. Alexander Insterburg
      Alexander Insterburg 26 March 2018 15: 29
      0
      I agree, but it is visible to an ordinary quadrocopter and the arrival of 1 mine cal is enough. 106.7mm and there is no tank - this is a much cheaper way to destroy buried armored vehicles at the leading edge, so there are trenches, but there are NO tanks and BMP - otherwise even before the appearance of infantry in the foreseeable ranges, tanks and other armored vehicles will be destroyed with a simple mortar or howitzer fire ...... - verified in the DNI and LC !!! - the armored vehicles are behind the camouflaged one and when necessary it quickly extends and shoots, and then again to OTHER camouflaged positions under cover of fumes !!!
  2. Yak28
    Yak28 21 March 2018 06: 13
    +4
    We probably have scientists waiting for Javelin, and other American weapons for reference.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 42
      +10
      Quote: Yak28
      We probably have scientists waiting for Javelin,

      Why wait? ... When you can buy from the Kurds .... wink
      1. Yak28
        Yak28 21 March 2018 17: 56
        +2
        Indeed, you can buy along with the Kurds
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 21 March 2018 18: 45
        0
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        When you can buy from the Kurds

        Something is doubtful that for sheep lovers (as well as skakum) someone will decide to give Javelin in their hands ...
        According to rumors, it had already been brought to the skakland, but in parts it wasn’t ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 22 March 2018 01: 59
          +1
          Quote: hydrox
          Something is doubtful that for sheep lovers (as well as skakum) someone will decide to give Javelin in their hands ..

          So ..... appeared on the Internet pictures of Kurds with "javelins"!
    2. Alexander Insterburg
      Alexander Insterburg 26 March 2018 15: 30
      +1
      Soon dill will sell a couple of installations with missiles - WAITING FOR !!!
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 21 March 2018 06: 55
    +11
    Damantsev, as always, catches fear.
    No one underestimates the capabilities of the "Javelins", it's about another: no one will let the Papuans use it directly at the front, and even more so - to transfer to them the latest developments of the Western military-industrial complex. If they don’t sell it, they will fall in love with new weapons quickly enough, and the bourgeoisie will definitely not want to acquaint us with their latest developments at their own expense.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 March 2018 07: 49
      +3
      Quote: inkass_98
      Damantsev, as always, brings fear

      (Never say never!) The world is not predictable! And there may be “surprises” ... (the farther into the forest, ... the “Javelins (and MMR)“ closer ”! The military-technical superiority of the Armed Forces against LDNR is gradually becoming manifest!
    2. seos
      seos 21 March 2018 09: 08
      +7
      They are being supplied for a specific purpose ... the capture of the republics ... and this is not needed by Ukrainians, but by the Americans ... and they will not spare money in the USA for this ...
      All this is being done to weaken Russia - to lead it astray and tear to pieces in the end ...
      At the moment, when the throne of world domination is swaying under the United States ... they are capable of EVERYTHING, including nuclear war ... already now all international rules are broken ...
      1. stan200000
        stan200000 21 March 2018 19: 51
        0
        I think that Putin would not have scared the Amers with the latest Russian weapons, had he not already had him enough for the speedy destruction of the Yankees. Especially the mini submarines impressed. A kind of apocalypse of the trap type. Everything is already standing and waiting for a conditional signal. 20-30 little joys with big tsunamis.
    3. Korax71
      Korax71 21 March 2018 10: 58
      +1
      The year of adoption of the javelin-1996 ???? where and in what place is it new request
  4. cedar
    cedar 21 March 2018 07: 35
    +4
    If American weapons, albeit with the wrong hands, are used against Russia, Russian weapons will be used against the Americans. And javilins or tomahawks, this is the tenth thing. They know this and presumably take into account .. that now you can’t sit behind a “puddle” and other people's backs.
    1. Falcond
      Falcond 21 March 2018 07: 48
      +12
      Where did you read in the article about the use of weapons against Russia? Why juggle the topic ??? You also remind about Sarmatian and “kuz'kin mother" .., also promise to burn America in a nuclear fire, and to raise the flag of "couch-patriotic troops" on the ruins of the White House !!!
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 21 March 2018 08: 53
        +2
        In the article, the author mentions the 1st Guards Tank Army. Is this not the Russian army?
        And who said that we are not developing an analogue to the "Frenchman"? With fiber optic communications and control? Just FINALLY, the privacy mode in our military-industrial complex has ceased to be an empty phrase.
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 21 March 2018 11: 03
          0
          I can say for sure that it is not being developed. It is being modernized at best, but they are not so significant as well as they will be riveted cornet. Now KBP performs the function of small-scale production, rather than an experienced design. recourse
    2. seos
      seos 21 March 2018 09: 10
      +5
      For a long time it was necessary to answer the Americans with their own meanness ... after the Chechen war to supply weapons to US opponents, but Putin decided to play pioneer ...
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 21 March 2018 10: 59
        +1
        It would be nice, but our budget is far from Soviet. We would have to our workers in the same military-industrial complex in vain to transfer the salary into a salary, and so that the management would not gobble up.
  5. Falcond
    Falcond 21 March 2018 07: 49
    +3
    The author caught up with fear in the morning! I'll go eat something...)
  6. bistrov.
    bistrov. 21 March 2018 08: 21
    +7
    Stop scaring us with “Javelins” and other “MMPs.” We will find a remedy against them. In 1943, neither the Tigers nor the Panthers with 100 millimeter armor helped the Nazis in the Kursk Bulge. They burned for a sweet soul, and then they dragged all the way to Kiev and the Dnieper Wall did not help.
    1. reservist
      reservist 21 March 2018 12: 20
      +2
      only before that there was a tank battle near Dubno ...
      topwar.ru/77802-bitva-pod-dubno-zabytyy-podvig.ht
      ml

      and near Prokhorovka in the 5th Guards Tank Army, tank losses were up to 70% ...

      I certainly can’t see it from the couch, but can the LDNR people's militia afford to fight with such a level of losses against the superior number of APUs ...

      what weather forecast is expected - "north wind, moderate, to strong"?
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 22 March 2018 08: 40
        +1
        Quote: reservist
        tank battle near Dubno.

        It was, in fact, a “gesture of despair” - to delay the advance of the Germans at all costs. And he fulfilled his function.

        Quote: reservist
        5th Guards Tank Army tank losses were up to 70%


        The error of the Soviet command, it was not necessary to throw 5 Guards in the oncoming battle. It was necessary to act from ambushes and from previously fortified positions. It is absolutely clear that there will be big losses, since the 5th Guards Army had half of the T-70 type tanks, and they could not oppose anything even the P-4 with 75 mm. a cannon, not to mention the P-5 and P-6. T-70 had only 45 mm. a gun and rather weak armor. The crew is only 2 people, when even the T-4 has five people!
        It was, in fact, suicide. I can not judge the current front-line operational situation in this place at that time and what caused this decision. Maybe this decision was justified.

        And about the "north wind" we'll see. Wait and see.
  7. konstantin68
    konstantin68 21 March 2018 08: 39
    +8
    Excellent and modern anti-tank systems. I would like to note a few points. First: the ideal weapon does not exist, second: in the confrontation in the Donbass, are there tank battles? There, art / counter-battery systems and electronic warfare equipment are now in first place, third: bench indicators are good, are there statistics on the use of Javelin in real combat conditions, given the almost constant smoke in the field, the presence of a large number of “hot” targets and those ascending from the heated land flows?
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 21 March 2018 11: 06
      -1
      Javelin has a thermal signature memory function, and it can be induced after cooling at a minimum target temperature difference of 0.5 degrees.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 22 March 2018 08: 49
      +2
      Quote: konstantin68
      perfect weapon does not exist

      You could say that ... For example, on the Internet you can find pictures of Kurds with "Javelins" ... but was there any "furor" about the extraordinary effectiveness of these anti-tank missiles? I don’t remember that! Even messages like: these tanks were hit from the Javelin anti-tank system - I don’t remember ... Still, the military in the world, considering the experience of using the Javelins, recognizes that this anti-tank system is a dangerous weapon! It would be nice to recall the experience of VOV .... when the Germans massively used “Faustpatrons”! Initially, tank losses were very large; but when countermeasures were developed, losses decreased markedly. Some of these measures are relevant now, and in this situation ...
  8. konstantin68
    konstantin68 21 March 2018 08: 44
    +7
    Are there any of the experts? Explain how it is possible to give target designation at a distance of 7-9 km for a small target maneuvering along the relief?
    1. Every
      Every 21 March 2018 14: 09
      0
      Not a specialist. But I can assume that target designation comes primarily from UAVs. There may be other sources. Although for this, all sources must be combined into one system.
    2. lance
      lance 21 March 2018 14: 23
      0
      optics in a deserted place, as in Syria. but to be honest, even in Syria, I can’t remember the use of Ptur at a distance of more than 2,5 km
  9. Vadim237
    Vadim237 21 March 2018 08: 46
    +1
    MMP, this is really an ATGM for all combat cases, several modifications of missiles - and even a mortar in battle will replace.
  10. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 21 March 2018 08: 47
    +4
    The author obviously exaggerates the combat capabilities of the Javelins. They have not yet been used in real battles, and the "paper" performance characteristics of American equipment are well known. Not to mention the fact that putting “Cape” type smoke curtains on tanks is much faster than putting “combat wing” APU combat units with javelins ...
    1. karish
      karish 21 March 2018 08: 55
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The author obviously exaggerates the combat capabilities of the Javelins. They have not yet been used in real battles, and the "paper" performance characteristics of American equipment are well known. Not to mention the fact that putting “Cape” type smoke curtains on tanks is much faster than putting “combat wing” APU combat units with javelins ...

      Actually it was used by the IDF more than once.
      What is in Lebanon, what is in Gaza.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 21 March 2018 10: 29
        +1
        It Javelins, and not Spikes of different breeds? In this case, I'm without a side, just strange
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 21 March 2018 11: 07
        -1
        A convoy of equipment was shot at another company in Iraq. There were plenty of military experience. good
    2. Korax71
      Korax71 21 March 2018 11: 16
      0
      A cape is a kind of protective cover on the tank that reduces the thermal signature. And smoke and aerosol grenades are a curtain. Well, or diesel fuel in the exhaust manifold wassat
  11. seos
    seos 21 March 2018 08: 59
    +4
    Well, the DNI and LNR armies already need to work on shielding the equipment from thermal radiation ... there are examples on the Internet (they usually make a gag like with DZ Kontakt on BMP-2), even an umbrella made of metallized insulation over the MTO will help to avoid defeat ( if done wisely)
    + shielding needed so recently it was announced the rearmament of the tanks with modern thermal sights.
    Regarding modern ATGMs in the Russian army .... they are not ... at all.
    The best that there are modifications of the “Cornet” (penetration up to 1300 mm) .. All ATGMs of our army are physically unable to penetrate a modern tank in the forehead (even the outdated leopard 2a4 has 1250mm in its forehead - 1750mm from the cumulative)
    Tank ATGMs with armor penetration of 650mm-900mm, with whom should he fight?

    There can be one conclusion here - it is necessary to develop ATGMs (including tank) with an attack of enemy vehicles on the roof like TOW-2b (primitive and effective) why this has not been done so far - it is not known ...
    It is also invisible to develop ammunition barrage ....
    1. aws4
      aws4 21 March 2018 19: 30
      0
      I agree with the first part that Russia does not have modern ATGMs ... but the fact that the leopard 2a4 has the equivalent of 1250 and for kuma 1750 is a discovery for me .... are you sure ????
      1. seos
        seos 21 March 2018 21: 19
        0
        Yes, tank tests in Sweden were declassified data from there ...
        1. aws4
          aws4 21 March 2018 22: 38
          0
          Thanks for the info .. I’ll look .. by the way, if there is something on the Internet, discard the link please
    2. Dmitry hippie
      Dmitry hippie 22 March 2018 00: 40
      0
      Something about the leopards you made fun of))) The forehead of the tower is thick (like the Abrams and Challengers), the rest is all thin - they burn in Syria with might and main ...
  12. Old26
    Old26 21 March 2018 09: 00
    +3
    Quote: Vard
    A tank buried in the tower as a target for jewels is not visible at all ... And for any other missile with automatic guidance ...

    But at the same time he has zero mobility. And it may be the goal, if not of the Javelins, then of mortars, artillery and MLRS

    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    I believe air surveillance systems will quickly calculate the location of the Javelin’s calculations and cover them at the time of preparation for the shot with fire.
    In modern combat, the main thing is not to let the enemy reveal themselves ahead of time ... otherwise a quick death.

    Yes, but you must have such a system. And this is a fairly large number of UAVs for various purposes. from UAV reconnaissance and surveillance to shock. It is hardly possible to detect a calculation if it is in the hut and appears for a very short time in the field of view of such a UAV. of course, you should not absolutize the complex, but you should not consider it very vulnerable from the enemy
  13. already a Muscovite
    already a Muscovite 21 March 2018 09: 33
    0
    Honestly, I do not understand this screech around the Javelins. It’s like a MANPADS, that is, an anti-aircraft missile, which says that it is designed to combat L \ A ... And the fact that they can beat tanks is not a bonus, but a side effect. For ground targets, this is a maximum of 2.5-3 km and it is unlikely because at such distances it is difficult to conduct a target. In mountainous areas, the effectiveness of using this thing will be great, as in principle, of any means of destruction ... Correct me if I'm wrong. The Armed Forces of Ukraine could use any anti-tank weapons, but they are betting on this poor javelin. Why and why?
    1. Conserp
      Conserp 21 March 2018 11: 22
      0
      Quote: already a Muscovite
      It's like a MANPADS

      It was another Javelin.
    2. Korax71
      Korax71 21 March 2018 11: 23
      +1
      This is a 3rd generation PTRK with a thermal imaging seeker, striking equipment in the most unprotected projection - MTO cover, top of the tower. You can talk about wretchedness for a long time, but weighing is really dangerous.
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 21 March 2018 12: 45
        0
        But for some reason, to take it into service, retroactively reduced the TTT after the failure of the tests. Moreover, the goals of the tests were heated.

        The real qualities of the non-current device are not yet very well known.
    3. tank64rus
      tank64rus 23 March 2018 17: 50
      +1
      Javelin in this case acts as an instrument of information war no more. Once the guys from the Pentagon milked the US budget well. Putin’s hand what can you do. There is no particular advantage here even with the most primitive simulation of a combat situation. As an example, they made a mechanical mule, slammed $ 250 million at zero output. I’m not talking about new destroyers there are astronomical figures. They steal, but only there it is called lobbying.
  14. Simon
    Simon 21 March 2018 09: 44
    +2
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    how else is this militia held against a many times superior enemy and is armed to the teeth so far.

    Because the "enemy" has not yet used to the "fullest" accumulated to date, "multiple superiority"! Russia "interferes" ...
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    ..can and find an antidote against the praised Javelins.

    I would like .... Only this antidote had to be found "yesterday"!

    It is possible "today", only you need a place where to experience. Here in Donetsk and Lugansk - a good training ground! In addition, and help will be good to the local police. wink
  15. Phoenix_L'vov
    Phoenix_L'vov 21 March 2018 09: 48
    +3
    That MMR, that the "Javelins" are wunderwafers against the armies of the banana republics that do not have KAZs in their tanks, and in the country there are scientists and industry capable of designing and releasing a sufficient number of such KAZs within a reasonable time.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 March 2018 01: 02
      0
      KAZs intercepting missiles in the upper hemisphere are not in service with any army in the world, and those that supply a smoke screen will be useless, since the operator can control the missile in flight.
      1. Dmitry hippie
        Dmitry hippie 25 March 2018 01: 29
        0
        Does the operator see through the smoke screen?))
  16. cedar
    cedar 21 March 2018 09: 54
    +2
    Quote: FalconD
    Where did you read in the article about the use of weapons against Russia? Why juggle the topic ??? You also remind about Sarmatian and “kuz'kin mother" .., also promise to burn America in a nuclear fire, and to raise the flag of "couch-patriotic troops" on the ruins of the White House !!!


    "... The numbers are very impressive, especially after the observed degree “Sagging” of the French elite under the imperial diplomatic and military-political “hops” of London and Washington regarding the Skripal affair and the preparation of the strike on Syria. It's obvious that in the event of large-scale military events, this product will be used against us to the full.

    I made my conclusion. You do not agree with him. The flag of your sofa is in your hands and forward to the victory of divanism ...
  17. mac789
    mac789 21 March 2018 10: 48
    0
    Maybe it's time to develop a tank analogue of the marine air defense system.
  18. mikael
    mikael 21 March 2018 10: 49
    +1
    yet another ekspert, Javelin has a short arm and at a distance of 2-2.5 km he can easily be recorded even without the use of powerful optical surveillance tools, and at such a range the operator becomes a piece of meat on the battlefield, the main thing is to observe and act correctly, but at a distance of 5 km, but the bushmeister with its ultimate range of 6 km is not serious at all with its mass overall properties, yes, of course, it can destroy the calculation with the cornet launcher, but provided that its calculation of kamikaze is much worse than for calculating mortar fire , well, the conditions for using armored vehicles in the terrain are both plus and minus, depending on who knows how and how to use them
    1. Topgun
      Topgun 21 March 2018 13: 11
      +3
      tin ...
      Can you imagine what 2 km is?
      I'm 100 meters in camouflage, I’ll stand near the bush and you won’t see me right away, notice not to hide, but stupidly stand near the bush ...
      I think the range of this ATGM is just due to the fact that a tank with 2 km is difficult to notice, could make a little more rocket and hit 3km, but what's the point? if it’s unlikely to find a target at such a distance and there’s no point in constantly dragging an extra load ...
      1. Dmitry hippie
        Dmitry hippie 22 March 2018 00: 50
        0
        Why is it difficult to notice a tank with 2 km ?? 3X2,5X7 m. Fool! Especially in optics - a few kilometers is easy! And you can hear for 20 km!))
        What’s even more interesting is that the tank doesn’t need to notice the calculation of the tank at all - it will overshoot all the suspicious greenfields / OFS buildings in advance (the radius of the fragment spread - 300m;)) - and hello everyone ... By the way, the western OFS tanks are not equipped, which is why they are military. Hi to the strategists / industrialists! =)))
  19. Conserp
    Conserp 21 March 2018 11: 19
    0
    By the middle of the second paragraph, he recognized Damantsev's "inimitable style": a persistent feeling that he was inserting the TTX of products into the text using a script.
    1. businessv
      businessv 21 March 2018 18: 19
      +1
      Quote: Conserp
      By the middle of the second paragraph, he learned the "inimitable style" of Damantsev

      Come on guys, why are you all joking over the author ?! Well, a person has such a style, for better recognition! In principle, if you slightly reduce pessimism, the article is not bad, people are engaged! The fact is that the LDNR police are far from having the same motivation as during APU corrals in boilers, this is really a problem! On the other hand, there was never any motivation in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, people go to serve under the contract as families in order to earn money. Maybe I will surprise someone, but unfortunately there are also a lot of people from Donbass (who don’t know, part of Donbass, within its administrative borders, is in, LDNR, and some are in Ukraine). I’m not talking about the National Battles - a separate story, but they also don’t break into battle. These are the things, colleagues!
  20. Hi-van
    Hi-van 21 March 2018 11: 19
    +3
    rugged terrain is certainly good to hide an arrow with a javelin, but where to get 30 seconds for a moving tank to light up on the same rugged terrain? I would like to see how a shooter with a javelin and a reserve of 11 kilogram missiles can "instantly" change position?
    in any case, on rough terrain, and even more so in urban conditions, the disposable grenade launcher has more advantages than the notorious javelins.
    1. Dmitry hippie
      Dmitry hippie 22 March 2018 00: 54
      0
      The RPG accurately fires at 300 meters, LNG - 1500, Ptur - up to 5,5 km (Cornet) So consider who has more advantages! =)
  21. iouris
    iouris 21 March 2018 11: 42
    +2
    From the cycle "There never was such a thing - and here again!". The Russian defense industry must also move its brains, and not treat a headache. She is led by one very effective manager who promised a lot of things. It is time to audit what has been said and divide it into what has been done and acquired.
  22. shuravi
    shuravi 21 March 2018 12: 16
    +2
    Yes, sometimes just censorship words are not enough to accurately express the level of such articles and the entire site as a whole.
    When you read such revelations:
    But if in the case of the Konkurs-M complex 9М113М missile it will not be easy to clearly determine the anti-tank position (thanks to radio command control over the wires), then the situation with the 9М133-1 Kornet-E is somewhat more complicated: the emitter of the laser control channel easily unmasks Cornet position on the marching flight area. As a result, one more unpleasant moment emerges: the intensive return fire from small arms and automatic BMP / BTR guns of the enemy towards the operator of the Kornet complex can easily disrupt the process of semi-automatic guidance of the 9M133-1 missile.


    I won’t even say that the ATGM, it’s not a separately fighting spherocone in a vacuum, I won’t ask how it is going to isolate the mass of small arms flashes, small-caliber guns, laser rangefinders and simply false targets, the object he needs.
    But it’s very interesting what had to be tasted in order to think of such methods to suppress the target at a distance greater than 3000 m?


    As for Javelin himself and other anti-tank systems with infrared seeker.
    This is not a weapon, this is a means of distributing suckers for money. Those who believe that in combat conditions it is possible to isolate the tank by the thermal background.
    And there are ways, moreover, to budget a tank and a small cart in the IR range to mask a tank.
    1. Conserp
      Conserp 21 March 2018 12: 41
      +4
      "Radio Command Control by Wire" - Move, Oscilloscope Arrow!
    2. Topgun
      Topgun 21 March 2018 13: 18
      +2
      Debacka Pass Fight
      As a result, the soldiers spent 19 Javelin missiles destroyed in total: two battle tanks, eight BTR-MTLB and four army trucks. This example shows that in the event of an emergency, even a small detachment with just a few anti-tank missile systems can operate from armed to the teeth of a mechanized enemy.
      Read more: https://militaryreview.su/288-fgm-148-javelin-vd
      etalyah.html
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 21 March 2018 20: 36
        0
        Quote: Topgun
        the soldiers spent 19 Javelin missiles destroyed in total: two battle tanks, eight BTR-MTLB and four army trucks

        With any normal ATGM it would be exactly the same. If not better. Moreover, the Iraqis thoroughly slammed, as always.

        Shooting defenseless trucks, materiels and T-55 from a missile range is the norm. Moreover, other ATGMs have a range of up to 5-10 km, and not 2-3.
      2. Dmitry hippie
        Dmitry hippie 22 March 2018 01: 08
        0
        Quote: Topgun
        ... even a small detachment having everything ...

        Did you understand what you said ?! (don't be rude =) 19 missiles against two old tanks (t-55)! Everything else - matalygi (weapons - 1 pc, if any!) And trucks! Moreover, the special forces acted on the part of the Americans - these are always the advantages of the first move, due to stealth (in fact, they acted from an ambush). The tankers had little chance if they were the first to notice - and so without options.
        By the way, this is the only known combat use of the javelins ...
        1. Topgun
          Topgun 22 March 2018 12: 07
          0
          Quote: Dmitry Hippy
          Do you understand what you said?

          I just copied the text from the link that is there ...
          Quote: Dmitry Hippy
          19 missiles against two old tanks ...

          hearing how the Americans are fighting (because of the 1st sniper they call an attack aircraft) I think they shot normally - they didn’t make pity on ammunition :))
          Quote: Dmitry Hippy
          By the way, this is the only known combat use of the javelins ...

          stupidity, this complex is in the arsenal of the US Army and where it fights and it’s fired by them all the time, it’s just that this case is “advertising”, they post it everywhere, and they use the dart widely ...
          1. Dmitry hippie
            Dmitry hippie 23 March 2018 00: 06
            +1
            However, for some reason, videos of their combat use are not found - only polygon ones - while the video of using the Tou-2 in the same Syria is full.
            As for the number of missiles, I did not mean the expenditure of the BC (it is not great for such a number of targets), but how many calculations of the PTRC worked - this is not indicated in the article, but it is unlikely that all 19 missiles were fired by one or two fighters (then they would be matalygs and trucks they stupidly left them while they recharged =)), and the Americans would have called for air support - they never have any problems with this ... So, in any case, several calculations of the PTR worked there! Two tanks were burned with the first shots - the rest is all targets.
  23. Sasha_Sar
    Sasha_Sar 21 March 2018 12: 32
    +1
    Well, as far as I understand, after reading the article that the ATGM IR guidance head and that bonfires of tires will not help?
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 21 March 2018 12: 59
      +1
      Quote: Sasha_Sar
      Well, as far as I understand, after reading the article that the ATGM IR guidance head and that bonfires of tires will not help?

      Still how to help.
      And another option, a sandwich from: a sheet of tin - mineral wool - a sheet of tin installed above the engine compartment.
      Or a little more expensive, instead of mineral wool, the porous material into which, if necessary, supply CO2 from fire extinguishers, in general we get a minus.
      1. Sasha_Sar
        Sasha_Sar 21 March 2018 13: 05
        0
        The navy is increasingly cumbersome, the Norgovs were and now probably have the Penguin anti-ship missiles with infrared homing. North, low temperatures, IR is the most. But we had PC-2 and PC-10 (passive jamming). We coped like that. A burning tire and heat and optics will clog.
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 21 March 2018 14: 52
          +2
          Quote: Sasha_Sar
          The navy is increasingly cumbersome, the Norgovs were and now probably have the Penguin anti-ship missiles with infrared homing. North, low temperatures, IR is the most. But we had PC-2 and PC-10 (passive jamming). We coped like that. A burning tire and heat and optics will clog.



          Exactly. IR GOS is good against the sky or sea. Despite the fact that in the same plane, or helicopter in most cases, you just need to get to defeat.
          As for armored vehicles, it is not enough just to get here. You still need to get to the right place.
          And further.
          Many experts, evaluating the combat capabilities of domestic ATGMs, base their conclusions on the basis of two postulates:
          1. In such a wonderfully protected western tank, only one launch is possible, there will definitely not be another.
          2. The ATGM operator will certainly be so dumb that it will direct the missile to the most protected place.

          Meanwhile, no religion forbids, and combat manuals are all the more complex to use ATGMs.
          Even with the reflection of the attack, the most obsolete ATGMs are able to kill the caterpillar, thereby, in the best case for the crew, simply immobilizing the car, in the worst, it will also deploy.
          And then already finish the motionless goal of no labor.
  24. awl
    awl 21 March 2018 12: 44
    +1
    Tanks will go into battle without reconnaissance! .. request
  25. Every
    Every 21 March 2018 14: 18
    +1
    We are now more interested in not the export potential of the advanced French anti-tank systems, but the volume of orders from the domestic consumer - the French Armed Forces

    Perhaps the most important question.
    A complex with fantastic characteristics can be created, BUT how much will it cost? And the ammunition for it.
    The French Leclerc created and what did they get in the end? Good tank for the price of a spaceship.
  26. sgrabik
    sgrabik 21 March 2018 15: 19
    0
    It’s time for us to create our own ATGM of a new generation, which could exceed the capabilities and range of the ATGM of our opponents, the Cornet-E is a very successful anti-tank system, but it is outdated, it’s almost yesterday and there’s no point in modernizing it, given the realities of today and In the long term, an urgent need to create a new anti-tank missile system with completely different capabilities.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV 21 March 2018 15: 40
    +1
    All this verbal diarrhea around "petroleum jelly" is rubbish.
    ATGM effective mainly in defense. And why attack the fortifications of ukrov from the LDNR? There are well-equipped airborne forces. And RZSU type "TOS-A".
    Let Ukrainians sit in their dugouts. First you need to deal with dill, and only then clean the dugouts .....
  29. Mercenary
    Mercenary 21 March 2018 15: 58
    0
    Ah, where are our Gryazev and Shipunov with their unique "EXCEED"
    It is necessary to move the Ministry of Defense, but with nuclear missiles, not everything is solved.
  30. SCHWERIN
    SCHWERIN 21 March 2018 16: 15
    +1
    Hohland - the headache of the Russian Federation. Thanks to Gorbi, special thanks to Boris and Chernomyrdin, a lover of Ukrainian borsch. Although the latter is to blame the least. This is a stigma that will bleed forever. Syria is kindergarten compared to hohland.
    Crazies and fanatics, ready to go on any adventure in order to .... Muscovites. And the worst thing, remotely controlled like robots. They will send the team z2 ......... rf, exe and go on the attack in the Crimea, Rostov Region. The operator is not afraid, he is far beyond the seas. Well, if the EU is controlled, then what to take from ukrov.
    And these are not fanatics - Islamists in Syria. These are the Slavs who know how to fight and forge weapons. How many Heroes of the USSR, outstanding designers and scientists in the 40s were from there? Yes, and under Adolphus and the Nazis, Germany had army No. 1 and GDP at the height. So the Nazis are not a hindrance to war.
    And to show miserable and miserable kovtuns and other experts from there, thinket is bad. Yes, the Red Army is all the stronger. But she was in a different historical period and in a different territory.
    I do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. How many have already announced the end of the outskirts? Winter is coming, people will not allow it, APU is going to Kiev, etc., etc. So what? And the West is training the Ukrainian army, sending weapons both through itself and through third countries. And we all express concern.
    I worked with Ukrainians, not in Russia. Normal people, but do not touch the independence ... It seems that the abscess has erupted. I do not see a way out of this situation. Diplomats are powerless, sitting in a siege at the embassy.
    And as Comrade V. Molotov said in the 39th: "Diplomats have done their job. Now the soldiers will speak." So, is the circle closed?
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. nikvic46
    nikvic46 21 March 2018 17: 37
    +1
    The types of weapons outlined by the author that come from the West to Ukraine deserve the attention of the Moscow Region. Yes, and scientists would have to work to at least reduce the effectiveness of these types of weapons. I am weak and cannot do this.
    One thing comes to mind, the creation of installations that could make a foggy, watery, smokescreen. sorry for
    advice, but I want to at least help something.
  33. Genry
    Genry 21 March 2018 18: 57
    +1
    From the article:
    "But if in the case of the 9M113M rocket of the Competition-M complex it is not so easy to clearly determine the position of the anti-tank driver (thanks to radio command control over the wires), then with 9M133-1 Kornet-E the situation is somewhat more complicated: the emitter of the laser control channel is easy unmasks the Cornet’s position on the marching flight. "

    The author stupidly did not want to take into account that when the Cornet is fired, the "laser track" is aimed above the target and the sensors do not work. Only when approaching a rocket (or pair) the beam is lowered to the target. And with a pair of missiles on the same track, Cornet hits targets with active defense.
    The author did not note the presence of the Metis ATGM, controlled by wire and having higher mobility.
  34. Viltor
    Viltor 21 March 2018 19: 00
    0
    In the case of the DPR-LPR People’s Police and the Javelins, I personally would try to bring out and substitute pseudo tanks under them, for example, old tractors sheathed under the T-62. Firstly, the question is disproportionate - the cost of Jewelin and the tractor. Secondly, the possibility of opening the position of ATGM. I think that with skillful hands, resourcefulness and competent organization of the process, the “tank” of the DPR, which jumped into position and caused a fire on itself by Jeweline, will be a sought-after response to the US novelty. That's just the tractor driver needs to have time to quickly and quietly slip away.
  35. Glen-99
    Glen-99 21 March 2018 19: 00
    0
    The author describes the scenario in a very figurative and voluminous way, reflecting in terms of the times of the 2 World War or from the experience of the Afghan and Chechen companies, there will not be anything like that, but there will be something like the destruction of military infrastructure to the depth of 2008-500 in Georgia in 800. km and plowing the front line to a depth of 100 km, this is where the whole Dgawelin company will be completed.
    1. bk316
      bk316 21 March 2018 19: 18
      +1
      It’s just that the author is rushing about, then the problem is for LDNR, then for the Russian defense industry, sometimes even for the Russian Federation.
      For LDNR, it can, and as in the case of an attack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the Russian Federation and in the case of forcing 404 to peace, no javelins will affect anything. With the complete superiority of the Russian Federation in aviation, air defense and missile weapons, for the APU everything will end very quickly. And the troops will be engaged in stripping.
  36. shuravi
    shuravi 21 March 2018 19: 04
    +1
    Quote: Glen-99
    The author describes the scenario in a very figurative and voluminous way, reflecting in terms of the times of the 2 World War or from the experience of the Afghan and Chechen companies, there will not be anything like that, but there will be something like the destruction of military infrastructure to the depth of 2008-500 in Georgia in 800. km and plowing the front line to a depth of 100 km, this is where the whole Dgawelin company will be completed.



    Sorry, but the author has no clue about either the Afghan or the Chechen events.
  37. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 21 March 2018 19: 32
    +1
    The author is either frightened, or mobilized ... He sees the destruction of PTR calculations only in direct hits, while artillery preparation is now carried out with thermobaric things-suitcases. In principle, in the offensive zone of a tank regiment or even a tank battalion of living enemies after artillery preparation, it should not remain to the full depth of the task of the day or day. Everything that will still be moving there will be finished in the regime of "fine cleaning". The centers of resistance that arose after the artillery preparation and suppression of the company’s company strongpoints will be suppressed at the very first PTR launches. Our losses, of course, are possible, but with a very low episodicity - with the proper organization of the offensive battle of the units as part of the offensive operation of units and formations.
  38. Tektor
    Tektor 21 March 2018 22: 20
    0
    Satchel-E is far from the only option of protection against MMP. I would put on an Abakan anti-aircraft grenade launcher on a tank. Abakan grenades have remarkable properties, such as long range detonation and the presence of electric pulse generators in grenades, which burn out electronics in a fairly large radius. True, Abakan requires installation of a Whirlwind (Impact) in the ABM-BSM30 robotic module, capable of hitting suddenly appearing threatening targets in the near zone without operator intervention.
  39. Forever so
    Forever so 22 March 2018 00: 16
    0
    About how, it turns out now there are no satellites, no drones, but like in the good times of the Civil War, sort of steel carts popping up, and they are being harnessed from closed positions. author -> author -> author it is clear that around and only you are alone in brown. Strategist damn it.
  40. certero
    certero 22 March 2018 00: 44
    0
    Against an equal opponent, the javelins have never been used. As for the conflict in the Donbass, artillery will control it there.
  41. Dmitry hippie
    Dmitry hippie 22 March 2018 01: 30
    +1
    Javelin has two big drawbacks - a short range (for petr) and a long preparation for launch: having noticed the tank, the fighter must cool the head of the peter (and the tank, meanwhile, doesn’t shoot, and doesn’t leave the fire zone =)), then lean out of the shelter, catch the tank in the sight and wait until the homing head captures it (and the tank, of course, also waits! =))) Apparently, therefore, all sorts of pro-American "moderate opposition" use the good old Tou -2, and Javelins deliver exclusively to those who obviously will never fight - to the Baltic states =)))
    As for the French MMR, it’s interesting what this thing really is, but so far there is not enough information to judge, other than officialdom and ostentatious launches, nothing. The "soft start", supposedly allowing you to use the gun from the shelter, was announced at the time for the javelins, but not a single video appeared to launch it from the room - the same with MMR ...
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 22 March 2018 02: 16
      0
      Quote: Dmitry Hippie
      Javelin has two big drawbacks - a short range (for petr) and a long preparation for launch: having noticed the tank, the fighter must cool the head of the peter (and the tank, meanwhile, doesn’t shoot, and doesn’t leave the fire zone =)), then lean out of the shelter, catch the tank in the sight and wait until the homing head captures it (and the tank, of course, also waits! =)))


      And after cooling, be sure to use.
  42. avia12005
    avia12005 22 March 2018 09: 50
    0
    And if the LDNR militia just burns everything before the offensive with “Grads” and “Hurricanes”, how many “Javelins” will survive? hi
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 22 March 2018 12: 17
      0
      Quote: avia12005
      And if the LDNR militia just burns everything before the offensive with “Grads” and “Hurricanes”, how many “Javelins” will survive? hi


      "Grads" is best to burn Florida, California, and so on on the list.
  43. Imobile
    Imobile 22 March 2018 10: 27
    0
    Any article with sound reasoning among the stream of delirium and hatred
    Our only countermeasure remains the early adoption of high-frequency electromagnetic radiation generators of the "Ranets-E" type (or newer analogues) that "burn out" avionics of the MMP / MHP rocket with a directed electromagnetic beam,
    And here is a small correction, everyone has a microwave and everyone knows that a thin metal mesh protects against radiation, it would be foolish to assume that they did not put any protection on military equipment. Therefore, the only thing is the creation of interference adjustments - which is practically impossible for digitally protected communications. But to prevent the transfer of a picture from a rocket is real, but it has little effect on the result, because the rocket is already flying at the target
  44. Slavors Gart
    Slavors Gart 22 March 2018 13: 35
    +1
    Do not worry about these missiles, if they are handed over to Ukram, then most of them will be sold, the rest will be taken by militias ..... as usual.
  45. roofing hedgehog
    roofing hedgehog 22 March 2018 14: 56
    0
    it means that it is necessary to create many accompanying thermal traps, and at least preventive firing with small termite blocks .. the yugans confused the heat homing heads with false fans ..
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 March 2018 19: 37
      0
      This is useless - the operator can manually control this missile, he will see the target and lead the missile at it.
      1. roofing hedgehog
        roofing hedgehog 22 March 2018 21: 48
        0
        our tanks are equipped with systems that lock control teams for pts with manual and semi-automatic systems. management .. such dark crimson type of lights .. on the sides of the frontal part of the tower .. or shooting dipoles ..
      2. Alex X
        Alex X 23 March 2018 01: 59
        0
        No. It may be Spike, but not Javelin.
        1. Conserp
          Conserp 24 March 2018 00: 11
          0
          Vadim237, apparently, the new French MMP had in mind. There is this option.
  46. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 22 March 2018 16: 11
    0
    Everyone is afraid! And what to put interference already weak? The same smoke screen? laughing tongue wassat
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 March 2018 19: 39
      0
      Put a smoke screen and you will immediately be covered with artillery - adjustment of fire on smoke screens.
      1. Dmitry hippie
        Dmitry hippie 23 March 2018 00: 19
        +1
        They can even cover without it, or they may not cover ... The barrel art has such a minus that it must first shoot in order to effectively hit a small-sized protected target, therefore (1) it is difficult to catch a mobile tank, (2) art can catch the answer while shooting;
        MLRS works on areas, so it can cover, but a tank can only be destroyed by accident by directly falling into it “hailstones” ... (Hurricanes, by the way, have, as a rule, a cluster b / h, therefore they are practically not dangerous for the tank)
        But for ptura calculations, all this stuff is extremely dangerous! ..
    2. roofing hedgehog
      roofing hedgehog 22 March 2018 21: 49
      0
      quite real .. in the fog and with heavy rain, snow pturs does not roll ..
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 March 2018 00: 58
        0
        With IR GOS prokanaet - in winter it is even more so.
        1. roofing hedgehog
          roofing hedgehog 23 March 2018 12: 34
          0
          how can it go if the operator just does not see the target? or in the case of IR interference, not one but several will shine? this is not counting the fact that sensors about laser irradiation will work on our modern tanks ...
  47. Alex X
    Alex X 23 March 2018 01: 58
    +2
    Javelin is a weapon of saboteurs. Only.
    For one simple reason. After cooling the GOOS, the battery maintains the operating mode only for about 4 minutes. After that, the battery needs to be replaced. Only when shooting from an ambush at an immovable target, you can choose the moment the cooling starts, wait for the process to complete, start target selection (with a capture cost of about 20-30 seconds, not counting the actual target selection), and launch the rocket within 2-3 minutes after of this.

    True, DRGs live until they are discovered, and "spending" DRG on firing a dead cumulative rocket is the height of stupidity.

    The phrase about the effectiveness of Javelin on TVD with ravines, trees and folds of terrain was especially amusing. That's where it is completely useless. I am sincerely surprised by the belief that everything is visible “from above”, you know it. ”At a distance of 2 km (half a kilometer for acceleration and ascent), the angle of view of a target from a rocket at a height of 200 m = arctg 0.1 = 6 degrees (relative to the ground), with kilometers at the same 200 m - 11 degrees. And not 45 and not 90 :), as people think from the plow, that is, the tank elementarily hides in any "terrain", 10 percent higher than its height (2.3 tons for teshek ), and the rocket loses guidance. And if we take into account that the rocket is aimed at heat, and this is the engine and chassis, and not the tower ....

    In general, only suicides can repel a tank attack in the area described by the author with the help of the Javelins. Ambush shooting in case of an unsuspecting enemy with a successful combination of circumstances and very intelligent, experienced operators with iron nerves - this is the entire field of combat use of the Javelins.
  48. tank64rus
    tank64rus 23 March 2018 17: 34
    0
    It is necessary to launch KAZ of Russian development into a series, that’s all. Expensive but people are more expensive. and launching the KAZ series reduces its cost.
  49. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 23 March 2018 18: 44
    0
    They scared me, it became scary I’ll go out for dinner. For information: there will be banderlogs with or without javelins, we’ll bury everyone, on cattle burial grounds, there will be enough space for all junta (and their patrons too!).
  50. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 24 March 2018 11: 50
    0
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    The author obviously exaggerates the combat capabilities of the Javelins. They have not yet been used in real battles, and the "paper" performance characteristics of American equipment are well known. Not to mention the fact that putting “Cape” type smoke curtains on tanks is much faster than putting “combat wing” APU combat units with javelins ...


    I agree. In addition to ordinary trucks and several light armored vehicles for decades that they have not been armed with weapons. Maybe a couple of T-55s in Iraq, and there’s a debatable question whether the Javelins were there.