Military Review

Admiral Valuev: it is necessary to strengthen the Baltic Fleet

78
The Baltic Fleet (BF), currently virtually without submarine forces, for balanced development should be equipped with the latest non-nuclear submarines of the 677 project of the Lada class with an air-independent (anaerobic) powerplant, said former BF commander (2001-2006) Admiral Vladimir Valuyev .


Admiral Valuev: it is necessary to strengthen the Baltic Fleet


In his opinion, all the fleets of the Russian Navy "should be developed simultaneously and depending on the existing potential enemy."

In the Baltic Sea, which is surrounded by nine countries, there are submarine forces in Germany, Poland, and Sweden. If we analyze the situation, then without submarines, I consider the task of carrying out BF operations in full is unrealistic.
- Admiral believes.

He noted that "in the Baltic, the development of underwater fleet organized by a residual principle, and that’s wrong. "

According to him, "now in the Baltic there is formally a division of submarines BF in Kronstadt."

In its composition is the only old regular boat. Periodically, the division was replenished with submarines of the 636.3 project, built at the St. Petersburg Admiralty Shipyards, but only for the time they were tested in the Baltic Sea. Then adopted in the combat structure of the Navy "Varshavyanka" went to points of constant basing on the Black Sea Fleet
- Admiral stated, RIA reports News.


Photos used:
TsKB Rubin
78 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Evil 55
    Evil 55 19 March 2018 15: 49
    +3
    Valuev ... like an admiral? I can’t imagine the "Stone Head" in the admiral's epaulettes on the GKP ..
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 19 March 2018 16: 14
      +9
      What problems?
      Vladimir Prokofievich Valuev (July 16, 1947, Krasny Luch, Voroshilovgrad region, USSR) - Admiral. Commander of the Baltic Fleet (11.04.2001/06.05.2006/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX).
      ContentHide
      1 Biography
      2 Career
      3 Awards
      4 family
      5 Highlights
      6 Sources and literature
      7 Notes
      Biography

      He graduated from the Higher Naval Diving School named after the Lenin Komsomol (1964-1969), the Higher Special Officer Classes of the Navy (1973-1974), the Naval Academy named after Marshal of the Soviet Union A. A. Grechko (1981-1983), the academic courses of this Academy in 1987, the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (1991-1993).

      Career

      Since 1969 he served in nuclear submarines as a group commander, warhead commander, assistant and senior assistant to the cruiser submarine commander; since 1978, commanded a submarine K-325, which made the transition from the North to the Pacific Fleet; since 1983 - deputy commander, 1988-1991 - commander of a submarine division in the Pacific Fleet; since 1993 - chief of staff - first deputy commander of the 4th Pacific Fleet submarine flotilla; after the flotilla was reorganized into a squadron, it became its commander; 1996 - Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Navy; since November 1996 - First Deputy Commander of the Baltic Fleet; since December 2000, he has temporarily acted as commander of the Baltic Fleet after the election of Admiral V. Egorov as Governor of the Kaliningrad Region; member of the working group of the Security Council of the Russian Federation on the problems of the Kaliningrad region
      1. Hiller
        Hiller 19 March 2018 18: 36
        +1
        worthy military biography
    2. RASKAT
      RASKAT 19 March 2018 16: 55
      +2
      Two 22800 ships will arrive at the BF this year, the next two more. In a couple of years, two 21631 RTOs and a pair of 20380. For the Baltic puddle is enough. Do you need submarines there? There are no more depths than 100 meters.
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 19 March 2018 22: 57
        +3
        There are 459 meters! But mostly in shallow water, the average depth is 71 meters. Not Caspian, but also not far gone. 386 square kilometers of area for a puddle is not enough, just right for the sea! smile Ultra-small class submarines in the Baltic are simply necessary, otherwise the Swedes and Norwegians will have nothing to look for! laughing
    3. DenZ
      DenZ 19 March 2018 16: 57
      +8
      Quote: Angry 55
      Valuev ... like an admiral? I can’t imagine the "Stone Head" in the admiral's epaulettes on the GKP.

      If this is a joke then clumsy and out of place.
  2. Oden280
    Oden280 19 March 2018 15: 53
    +6
    Why are there submarines? The sea is shallow, it is shot through by the stationary HAC through and around the enemies. "Gauges" and Buyans normally shoot back. And no one will release our boats in the North Sea.
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 19 March 2018 16: 16
      +10
      Quote: Oden280
      Why are there submarines? The sea is shallow, it is shot through by the stationary HAC through and around the enemies.


      Map of the depths of the Baltic Sea. Judging by the experience of the Second World War, they will be "locked up" in the straits, but on the other hand, they must have 5-6, no one has canceled the supply of potential enemy troops in the Baltic. hi
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 19 March 2018 16: 28
        +13
        Coastal missile systems shoot through the entire Baltic. It is simpler and cheaper than building and risking boats there. So, the enemy will have to forget about the supply by sea. From boats it makes sense to restore the “Piranhas” for sabotage in the ports of the enemy and the delivery of DRG to the rear of the enemy.
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 19 March 2018 16: 42
          +6
          Quote: Oden280
          Coastal missile systems shoot through the entire Baltic. It is simpler and cheaper than building and risking boats there.

          Comrade Khrushchev, in his time, also decided that we would only fight with missiles. Promising topics in shipbuilding, aviation, and artillery were “chopped off,” so you should not be so categorical.
          Valuev in the article focuses on providing the Baltic Fleet with boats from VNEU, and not project 636.3. This does not prevent the restoration and production of the Piranhas.
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 19 March 2018 17: 07
            +5
            Boats with VNEU are quite large, 2650 tons underwater, and have a working depth of 250 m. How many places in the Baltic Sea have such a depth? About rockets was said just for example. For the Baltic there will be enough boats for various purposes, aviation and coastal units. The boats in this puddle have nothing to do. Only people and ships to lose.
            1. kapitan92
              kapitan92 19 March 2018 17: 27
              +5
              Quote: Oden280
              Boats with VNEU are quite large, 2650 tons underwater, and have a working depth of 250 m. How many places in the Baltic Sea have such a depth?

              Let's start with the fact that we do not have a V / V VEU !!!
              “Type 212A” had to fit all the necessary units into the hull, taking into account the operation of submarines in the Baltic Sea. Thanks to a number of technical solutions, primarily related to the layout of external units, the new submarines are capable of diving in water areas with a depth of at least 17 m. The total length of the 212A submarines in the basic version of the project is 56,08 m, width - 7 m, normal draft - 6 m In the surface position, the displacement is 1580 tons, in the submerged - 1990 tons.

              https://topwar.ru/70209-neatomnye-podlodki-proekt
              ov-tip-212a-i-tip-214.html
              And they have !!!
              1. Inok10
                Inok10 19 March 2018 22: 41
                +2
                Quote: kapitan92
                Let's start with the fact that we do not have a V / V VEU !!!

                ... "Piranha" since the Soviet times, "Crystal-20" ... a, Baltic Native, but still a Puddle, not the Sea ... Lake Big, slightly salted ... in separate places you can dig up 400 m, but it makes sense if it is 5x10 km. ... hi
                1. sharp-lad
                  sharp-lad 19 March 2018 23: 03
                  +2
                  I myself am from Liepaja, I live between a slightly salted sea and an unsalted lake! So please do not deprive me of the sea! am smile
                  1. Inok10
                    Inok10 19 March 2018 23: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: sharp-lad
                    I myself am from Liepaja, I live between a slightly salted sea and an unsalted lake! So please do not deprive me of the sea! am smile

                    ... in, in as it will just be between Liepaja and Gotland 200 m. ... the depths of the Baltic ... laughing ...
                    P.S. ... from Libava means you will, Port Alexander III of the Emperor of the Russian Empire ... from the Kaliningrad province ... A low bow ... wink
                    1. sharp-lad
                      sharp-lad 19 March 2018 23: 42
                      +1
                      Now, yes, from Libava, and when he was born, grew and even grew up in the small town of Gulbene, yes, fate made me move. hi
                2. kapitan92
                  kapitan92 19 March 2018 23: 16
                  +4
                  Quote: Inok10
                  "Piranha" since Soviet times, "Crystal-20" ..

                  Alex, hi .EMNIP there were 2 boats "Piranha" and in 1999 they sunk into oblivion. "Crystal20" development of the late 80's, but s / l with them "in mind." There was info that the P-650, or P-750 is included in the state program 2018-2025, but this is again "in the mind." When it will be in the fleet, God alone knows!
                  P / boats are needed in the Baltic, let P-650 or Piranha, pieces 6, but needed! (IMHO) hi
                  1. Inok10
                    Inok10 19 March 2018 23: 27
                    0
                    Quote: kapitan92
                    Alexey, .EMNIP there were 2 boats "Piranha" and in 1999 they sunk into oblivion. "Crystal20" development of the late 80's, but s / l with them "in mind." There was info that the P-650, or P-750 is included in the state program 2018-2025, but this is again "in the mind." When it will be in the fleet, God alone knows!
                    P / boats are needed in the Baltic, let P-650 or Piranha, pieces 6, but needed! (IMHO)

                    ... Good Vyacheslav! ... hi ... yes, submarines in the Baltic are needed, but small numbers with VNEU ... but not the German-Swedish version ... 2-4 knots. Maximum speed and full power in 4-6 hours ... Feel the joke yourself ... laughing
                    ... oh, about the submarines of the Russian Navy in the Baltic ?! ... "so who knows, is there life on Mars or not life on Mars Science is not known!" (c) ... but if you look at the sky with an armed look ... wink
              2. Evgeniy667b
                Evgeniy667b 20 March 2018 10: 47
                0
                Well, after all, there’s the Piranha’s legacy of up to 1000 tons of displacement, both from the Malachite and the Rubin — something that prevents them from being embodied in metal. They fit into these depths very normal.
      2. Kerensky
        Kerensky 19 March 2018 17: 00
        0
        supply of potential enemy troops in the Baltic

        It was mainly carried out by skerry fairways or a neutral site.
        Judging by the experience of the Second World War
      3. g1v2
        g1v2 19 March 2018 20: 23
        0
        Judging by the experience of WWII, the Baltic Sea is a cemetery for submarines. Unless there were plans for small submarines.
      4. Hiller
        Hiller 19 March 2018 21: 16
        +1
        So the experience of the Second World War must be remembered! And draw the right conclusions, which the commander proves.
    2. ImPerts
      ImPerts 19 March 2018 16: 38
      +3
      Ultra-small submarines make sense for covert operations. 3-4 diesel-electric or anaerobic, to demonstrate power in BM, yes. And why more?
      My opinion is that the increase in the number of SK type 11661 with PK type "Caliber" just right.
      For everything else, there is an SF.
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 19 March 2018 16: 50
        +3
        Diesel engines are not needed there. This was understood in Soviet times. And keeping boats there just for demonstration is too expensive. They there are nowhere to perform course tasks. Those boats that were built for the Black Sea Fleet final tests and training conducted on the Northern Fleet.
        1. ImPerts
          ImPerts 19 March 2018 16: 52
          +4
          I do not argue.
          The main thing in my thought:
          Quote: ImPerts
          My opinion is that the increase in the number of SK type 11661 with PK type "Caliber" just right.
          For everything else, there is an SF.

          Here I think there should be no objections drinks
          ZY
          Well, the ultra-small, select vodka from the adversary wassat
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 19 March 2018 16: 54
            +4
            Absolutely right. And you can also put on container ships the river-sea, which go along Ladoga and Onega, in case of exacerbation, the container version of the "Caliber"
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 19 March 2018 17: 01
              +1
              I agree.
              Because of this, the DBC was forced to cut. They were difficult to distinguish. It is possible, but difficult. It will be even harder.
              I do not exclude that the increased pressure on the Russian Federation is due to the fact that things have appeared that are difficult for “partners” to track and prevent. After that, the flow of rhetoric about Russia's unpredictability sharply increased.
          2. mvg
            mvg 19 March 2018 18: 56
            0
            Well, what are the Finns adversaries? Almost Karelians.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  3. DMoroz
    DMoroz 19 March 2018 15: 58
    +6
    All seaman divers with a holiday !!! drinks But in fact, the submarine fleet in the Baltic what how in the Second World War they’ll lock up in the Gulf of Finland, and the depth - they will enlighten and destroy ... IMHO: RTOs with Caliber probably fit ...
    1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 19 March 2018 16: 01
      +10
      The fleet will not be sealed in the Gulf of Finland, for the simple reason that it is actually not there. In total, the Baltic Fleet of the new ships contains only the 4 corvette of the 20380 project. Two submarines on 30 more than years. At the same time, we have a Kaliningrad enclave separated from the main territory, which we must think about protecting. In the case of a land blockade, communication is possible only by sea transport and aircraft. Without a sufficiently strong Baltic Fleet, we can provoke not only land, but also sea and air blockades. But the situation with the neighbors is not getting any better.
      1. Genry
        Genry 19 March 2018 16: 15
        +1
        Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
        Without a sufficiently strong Baltic fleet, we can provoke not only land, but also sea and air blockades.

        They’re right ... But it was about the submarine fleet, and the Baltic is not the same for him ....
      2. DMoroz
        DMoroz 19 March 2018 16: 18
        +3
        So why increase it, just for the masses? Do you need targets? Since the days of the Second World War, neither geography nor the depth of the water area has changed, only the borders of the countries are not in our favor ... Simple mine installations and tracking stations from NATO countries and to them also Trindets ... And this is just populism, especially from ex. .. After it, it seems like they still put a big “drum” on the BF? ...
        The Baltic Fleet (BF), currently virtually without submarine forces, for balanced development should be equipped with the latest non-nuclear submarines of the 677 project of the Lada class with an air-independent (anaerobic) powerplant, said former BF commander (2001-2006) Admiral Vladimir Valuyev .
      3. dauria
        dauria 19 March 2018 16: 19
        +1
        we can provoke not only land, but also sea and air blockades.


        In this case, it is easier to solve the “problem” on land, if it comes to sea blockade. Yes, it will be so, otherwise Kaliningrad will end. Sorry, Balts, but you are an anthill at the tankodrome.
        1. DMoroz
          DMoroz 19 March 2018 16: 48
          +1
          they are afraid of this and carry out funny (funny) exercises to counter the Suvalki corridor, here are only 5 tbsp. NATO Treaty. Although it is unlikely that someone with a large kneading will harness for them. hi
  4. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 19 March 2018 16: 01
    +3
    The Baltic Fleet is the smallest kind of like. It must be restored ...
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 19 March 2018 16: 04
      0
      Quote: Archivist Vasya
      The Baltic Fleet is the smallest kind of like. It must be restored ...

      aircraft carriers with boreas? ... besides corvettes, frigates are also needed, and of course, submarines (babies)
      1. Archivist Vasya
        Archivist Vasya 19 March 2018 17: 51
        0
        No aircraft carriers! Corvettes, frigates, well, how about without babies))
  5. mmaxx
    mmaxx 19 March 2018 16: 04
    +4
    In, damn it, nonsense.
    Back in the Baltic war they said: you won’t get away from the plane. A shallow puddle through which it is neither possible to pass nor pass. In addition to patrol boats and boats, nothing is needed there at all.
  6. Sergey D_2
    Sergey D_2 19 March 2018 16: 15
    0
    But what's the point? Again they will drive to Kronstadt and will sit like mice.)))
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 March 2018 16: 45
      +2
      Quote: Sergey D_2
      They will again be driven to Kronstadt and will sit like mice

      fool Someone who, but the submarines in that war in Kronstadt did not sit.
      And so yes - if the land again retreat to Petrograd, then it is of course.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 March 2018 17: 21
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Someone who, but the submarines in that war in Kronstadt did not sit.

        In truth, since the end of 1942 it would be better to sit. For in 1943 there was practically no chance of breaking through the Nargen-Porkkalauda anti-submarine line. There, for the passage of submarines, it would be necessary to attract a couple of air divisions to clear the area from enemy aircraft and ships and boats of the anti-aircraft defense (they would have to work at the limit of the combat radius) - and still there were mines, nets and Finnish submarines.
        1. cobalt
          cobalt 19 March 2018 17: 42
          +6
          Last year I visited Kronstdt, there is a monument to the dead submariners. In the Second World War, the fleet lost 38 submarines, 26 of them died in the Gulf of Finland, and when leaving it when trying to break through the anti-submarine line, for me, this is a war crime, mediocre fleet control, the vain death of sailors for the sake of command that we are the Baltic Fleet also actively fighting. What would be the benefit of these submarines in 1944, when the fleet could operate in open waters and even the submariners would be alive.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 March 2018 20: 33
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          In truth, starting at the end of 1942 we’d better have sat.

          It's better. Because
          Quote: Alexey RA
          there were practically no chances to break through the Nargen-Porkkalauda anti-submarine line at 1943

          But they still didn’t sit, but walked, and were blown up and killed, and here's someone, but to blame the Baltic submarine for sitting somewhere ... drinks
    2. Igor V
      Igor V 19 March 2018 23: 09
      0
      Quote: Sergey D_2
      But what's the point? Again they will drive to Kronstadt and will sit like mice.)))

      That is why the main base of the DCBF is Baltiysk, and not Kronstadt. In Soviet times, there was a submarine division in Baltiysk, there was enough depth, for some reason. Now sofa experts are not enough. And the admiral knows less than "experts." I myself do not particularly like Valuev. There were corruption cases under him, but there is no reason to doubt professional competence.
  7. Alex777
    Alex777 19 March 2018 16: 18
    0
    Yes, all fleets, without exception, need to be strengthened, but alas, there are problems.
  8. Geonezis
    Geonezis 19 March 2018 16: 25
    0
    There was some kind of news that they developed new minisubs like the Soviet Piranhas. They would be strengthened.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 19 March 2018 16: 58
      +11
      Quote: Geonezis
      There was some kind of news that they developed new minisubs like the Soviet Piranhas. They would be strengthened.

      Firstly, our military industrial complex is going to build mini-submarines like Piranhas for export, as far as I have heard. Secondly, such mini submarines are good for special operations, landing saboteurs, and well, to pry vodka at the Finns (Features of national fishing k / f).
      The crew of the Piranha project submarines consisted of three officers: a navigator commander, an electromechanical assistant and an electronic weapons assistant. In addition to them, an reconnaissance and sabotage group of six combat swimmers was taken on board. The exit of combat swimmers was carried out within the depths of up to 60 meters and on the ground. Being outside the boat, combat swimmers / divers had the opportunity to use the electricity supplied from it through the wires, as well as replenish the gas mixture in breathing devices.

      The only addition to its functionality may be the use of mini-drones ...
      Well, if you consider that ..
      ... and 2 mine-setting devices, in which two PMT mines were placed, or two lattices for 400-mm Latush torpedoes (a special version of the SET-72 torpedo) used by self-exit over the entire depth range.

      That is, instead of two torpedoes, use reconnaissance or strike underwater drones. That's all for Piranha’s weapons ...
      Wherein...
      Full underwater speed reached 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots. Cruising range under water with an economical course (4 knots) reached 260 miles, in the surface position - 1000 miles

      And what impact tasks can a submarine fulfill with such speed characteristics, range and maximum immersion depth of 200 meters?
      1. Geonezis
        Geonezis 19 March 2018 17: 45
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        That's all for Piranha’s weapons ...

        This is for 865 projects, that's all. What will be specific in armament for new projects is still unknown. So not everything is so simple.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 19 March 2018 17: 47
          +7
          Quote: Geonezis
          This is for 865 projects, that's all. What will be specific in armament for new projects is still unknown. So everything is so simple.

          Sorry, but you can’t push such a mini-submarine into the dimensions that are not necessary. It is not rubber and is very limited in size. A drummer from her, like a bear balalaika in an orchestra.
          1. Geonezis
            Geonezis 19 March 2018 17: 59
            0
            So no one talks about the fact that the baby performed the role of a full-fledged drummer and carried as many missiles as the same Lada or at least Varshavyanka.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 19 March 2018 18: 08
              +9
              Quote: Geonezis
              So no one talks about the fact that the baby performed the role of a full-fledged drummer and carried as many missiles as the same Lada or at least Varshavyanka.

              So then what are you talking about
              Quote: Geonezis
              They would be strengthened.

              How do you see reinforcement, without, in fact, shock functions and extremely narrow specialization?
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 19 March 2018 18: 19
                +2
                Light wedge on babies did not converge. Malachite has such a range of such projects up to 1000 tons of displacement, even with VNEU, even with missile weapons. And Rubin has a smaller project of Lada (Amur1650) - Amur 950. There would be a desire to build ...
                For the Baltic, submarines are an ideal weapon as minefields. Not only can they clog us in the bases, but we can them. Or close the German-Swedish-Danish strait zone, just a stone's throw from Kaliningrad. Boats in the Baltic are needed.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 19 March 2018 18: 24
                  +8
                  Quote: rudolff
                  Light wedge on babies did not converge. Malachite has such a range of such projects up to 1000 tons of displacement, even with VNEU, even with missile weapons. And Rubin has a smaller project of Lada (Amur1650) - Amur 950. There would be a desire to build ...

                  Oh friend, how glad I am to see you! drinks
                  True ... but about our old conversation about the analogue of Lyra, we have already talked a lot.
                  Quote: rudolff
                  For the Baltic, submarines are an ideal weapon as minefields.

                  Varshavyanka will do just that too ...
                  Quote: rudolff
                  Boats in the Baltic are needed.

                  Preferably with VNEU. Ah dreams dreams ...
                  1. rudolff
                    rudolff 19 March 2018 18: 39
                    +1
                    Hello Andrey! And I'm glad to see you! And then the other day I read from someone that they banned you for life. But I myself didn’t want to appear before the elections, this politician was already bullied, maybe now it will become calmer. Only Andrei from Chelyabinsk pleased with his articles.
                    drinks
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 19 March 2018 18: 43
                      +8
                      Quote: rudolff
                      And then the other day I read from someone that they banned you for life.

                      Well, I ended up in a disbat ... with demotion to soldiers. drinks
                      1. rudolff
                        rudolff 19 March 2018 18: 46
                        +1
                        Wow! And what happened, for what?
                    2. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 19 March 2018 18: 53
                      +8
                      Quote: rudolff
                      Wow! And what happened, for what?

                      Well, he behaved "well", so first on the lip, and then in the disbat. wink There are many trolls, but sometimes there was no restraint and apparently patience.
                2. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 19 March 2018 19: 18
                  +4
                  Quote: rudolff
                  Boats in the Baltic are needed.

                  Rudolf! hi Congratulations, Volchara, on your professional holiday! drinks Health, GOOD LUCK and many years !!! fellow
                  On the issue of the Baltic Sea and the availability of boats. 123 OBRPL: dual-based Kronstadt - Baltiysk will be deployed here. Total 6-7 units. The boats will most likely be of the Lada type with rocket and torpedo weapons. Everything on the shore can be very quickly suppressed by enemy aircraft ... But the boat still needs to be found. This is a time.
                  In the 2's, NPLs with CRBDs can calmly shoot LONDON, for example. Enough radius. Well, all of their missile defense - too. Thus, carrying out the supporting actions for applying the O-WU of our Strategic Rocket Forces to the adversary.
                  In-3's, in a normal war, they will be able to close the pour zone, organizing a mine-missile (similar to "mine-artillery") position. This is so that NATO DesO does not hang around our former union republics for unloading in the ports of Klaipeda, Liepaja, Riga, Ventspils, Tallinn, etc.
                  B-4's, it's one thing to maintain a database, knowing that you do not need PLO. And it’s completely different when the command sounds on the ship: "The ship entered the danger zone from submarines. Combat alarm! Option - PLO !!!" And it becomes so scary from such unpredictability that I want to go home, to New York, to my mother, under my skirt .. Like in my childhood ....
                  Therefore: Boats are needed. Rudolph is absolutely right, because he is a sailor and understands what he is talking about. Well, and so, without boats, you can dam up the whole Baltic with Arliks ​​and shoot down everything that flies ballistics in the direction of the States and their satellites on NATE. yes
                  1. rudolff
                    rudolff 19 March 2018 19: 30
                    +2
                    Hello buddy! Happy holiday! drinks
                    On the topic and there is nothing to add, you have correctly stated everything. Especially the last point. It is one thing to fight with full control of depth and quite another, knowing that there might be someone there. Even if the boat is simply sunk at the Kronstadt roadstead, they will go crazy trying to find it.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 19 March 2018 19: 46
                      +8
                      Quote: rudolff
                      Happy holiday!

                      Quote: rudolff
                      Congratulations,

                      I congratulate you friends on the holiday! All the best and great endless health to you and your family!
                  2. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 20 March 2018 00: 13
                    +7
                    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                    The boats will most likely be of the Lada type with rocket-torpedo armament. Everything on the shore can be very quickly suppressed by enemy aircraft ... But the boat still needs to be found. This is a time.

                    All of you correctly say, but where can I get it from the VNEU submarine? How much do we finish, process it with a file, sand it with emery, but still it turns out Varshavyanka ... eh ...
                    Maybe Putin will take this project under his personal control, then a hyper-speed submarine with VNEU may appear in the near future.
              2. Geonezis
                Geonezis 19 March 2018 19: 43
                0
                Yes, this is a gain. With excellent stealth indicators on such a special TVD as Baltika, they can make much more noise than other types of boats. What is their specialization? The fact that they can not throw eight calibers for a couple of thousand miles? They do not need it. It is much more important that they will be able to inflict chiseled blows and sink any surface vessel of a potential enemy to the bottom.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 19 March 2018 19: 50
                  +6
                  Quote: Geonezis
                  to the bottom any surface vessel of a potential enemy.

                  Which one? laughing And most importantly, what? With her performance characteristics of speed and depth, she will be sent to feed the fish much earlier. Piranha was created for special operations, and not attacks on surface ships.
                  1. Geonezis
                    Geonezis 19 March 2018 19: 54
                    0
                    But am I talking about the old Soviet piranha? winked We are talking about new projects whose capabilities are not known to anyone.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 19 March 2018 19: 57
                      +6
                      Quote: Geonezis
                      We are talking about new projects whose capabilities are not known to anyone.

                      You see ... how would it be easier for you to explain ... mmm ... here, as boys, we took item No. 2 (a condom) and filled it with water ... and it fit about 3 liters (if sclerosis does not change) .. .if more, he was torn. So with the submarine of such a displacement as Piranha, although modernized, the same thing will happen.
                      1. Geonezis
                        Geonezis 19 March 2018 20: 14
                        0
                        Is that how you troll? That is, the project Piranha-650E and Piranha-950 do you think is all this, only carry a box of vodka from Finland? Ok)
  9. Piramidon
    Piramidon 19 March 2018 17: 06
    +2
    I remember, back in Soviet times, we deciphered:
    SF - Modern Fleet;
    TF - Also a fleet;
    BF - Former Fleet
    Black Sea Fleet - Chi fleet, Chi is not a fleet.
    Py.Sy. I then served at the KSF.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 March 2018 19: 30
      +3
      Quote: Piramidon
      BF - Former Fleet

      And I served at the CSF. But about the Baltic, as a "former fleet" can only talk stunned first-year. For he is not aware that the Navy is ships and PEOPLE! But ships are designed and built in the Baltic. And officer / midshipman cadres, a sub-school (306 KUOPP) are being trained in the Baltic. The main headquarters of the Navy is in St. Petersburg, the Krylov Institute is also ... Testing grounds and test bases are here ...
      But the "sentinel outposts", yes - in the North, Pacific Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet are located ... Even CFL, having acquired Buyans, has become Euro-hazardous!
      Therefore, it is necessary to respect and respect all Fleets of Russia, for it has no superfluous! Everyone does what his mother-mother instructed him ... Truncated, crucian !? bully
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 19 March 2018 20: 38
        +1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Truncated, crucian !?

        But this, I can already regard it as an insult. I could only be called a Veteran of the Armed Forces of the USSR by a shed (with fake Marshall stars), which was not even a sperm when I already wore lieutenant epaulettes.
        PS The fact that ships were built in the Baltic Sea (during the USSR) does not mean that they were in service with the DCBF at that time.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 19 March 2018 21: 24
          +3
          Quote: Piramidon
          And this, I ...

          PYRAMIDON! With humor, it’s shitty for you: see the emoticon in the comment.
          Therefore, get a grenade under the tail!
          - As for the "fake marshal epaulettes" - not the essence of the visitor's specification. The bottom line is that he writes ... And from you, PYRAMIDON! scribbler No. like a ballerina from me ... Yeah.
          - Looks like you haven’t gone far from the epaulette: your nickname is aviation, the avatar on the site is the um 956 of the project ... Are you a helicopter pilot? Then it’s clear: vibration did its job ... It’s a pity, but it could still fit in ... sad
          - If you decompose your veiled years like that, then when I was a “spermatozoid”, and you, PYRAMIDON, are a summer, then now you should be under 90 years !!! If so, --- I take my words back.
          But, if you are less than 65 and you don’t have a general, then you, PYRAMIDON - KARAS, though old, must be admitted.
          For sharpness - do not blame me: today is a day of swimming, maybe something extra after meeting with the guys and wrote. Well, the veteran of the Battle of Kulikovo is forgivable! laughing
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 19 March 2018 22: 22
          +3
          Quote: Piramidon
          that ships were built in the Baltic Sea (during Soviet times) does not mean that they were in service with the DKBF at that time.

          Now on to the case.
          More than 40 Burevestnik hulls were built in the Baltic, light cruisers pr. 68 bis, Severnaya Verf - em 956 pr, corvettes pr. 20380 - this is the last thing that was transferred to the Baltic. Submarines - a separate article.
          So, wrong, you are PYRAMIDON! yes
  10. mmaxx
    mmaxx 19 March 2018 17: 28
    +2
    Still. The Germans, having overwhelming superiority in forces in the Baltic, did not climb two wars. There is just a trap for any fleet. To mines and aviation missiles were added.
  11. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 19 March 2018 17: 39
    +2
    Quote: Evil 55
    Valuev ... like an admiral? I can’t imagine the "Stone Head" in the admiral's epaulettes on the GKP ..

    What is it for? What does it have to do with it? Do you have a crisis?
    But General Moiseyev, too, will overpower?
  12. earloop
    earloop 19 March 2018 19: 39
    0
    "considers the former commander of the BF (2001-2006) Admiral Vladimir Valuev."
    I do not dare to question the opinion of the military admiral, but now we must take into account the enormous potential for delivering an irresistible blow from the "waters of the nth forest river".
  13. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 20 March 2018 05: 41
    0
    It is possible to equip boats, only now will they go to the operational space in case of war? The experience of the Second World War makes one doubt.
    And it is necessary to arm the fleet not "depending on the potential enemy", but in view of the opportunities for the fleet that this theater provides. Alas, you cannot jump higher than geography.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 March 2018 08: 54
      +2
      Quote: M. Michelson
      Alas, you cannot jump higher than geography.

      Your deeds are wonderful, Lord! (with)
      Who could have suggested that the ships of the Caspian flotilla would "fight" in Syria? But they struck Caliber with the barmales, and nothing - the geography remained in place.
      Can it be more correct to talk about building a fleet for the tasks that it should solve? Then there will be no leapfrog forces, proceeding, of course, from the forces of the opposing side. Something like that, probably.
  14. Lynx33
    Lynx33 20 March 2018 06: 41
    0
    Well, just a seer. And you also need to strengthen the Pacific, Northern, Black Sea fleets, but how? Ships do not grow like mushrooms; they must be built over the years. With the Baltic Fleet it’s just easier - I built up bastions with Iskander along the coast and most of Europe is shot through.
  15. white.eagle
    white.eagle 20 March 2018 14: 03
    0
    Polish submarines, one under repair at the shipyard, two others will be decommissioned within three years. new purchase canceled. In fact, during the conflict, nothing will sail on the Baltic Sea because the warships of all the Baltic states will be destroyed within the first tens of minutes. Also, all ships of the Baltic Fleet. Thus, submarines in this sea will hunt other submarines or destroy gas pipelines and power cables.