Military Review

Indian Air Force: Su-57 is very expensive and loses F-22 and F-35. We can refuse from FGFA ...

317
Not so long ago, Indian media published an article by Indian military experts that it is meaningless for India to enter into a contract with the United States for the purchase of F-35 fighters for the reason that India does not have any ammunition or service system for these aircraft (for example, air tankers) . It was also noted that the software of all systems of this aircraft after the implementation of the F-35 in India will still be under American control.


Now in the Indian edition Hindustan Times An article was published by Rahula Singh, who states that the Indian Air Force is "not suitable" and the joint development of a fifth-generation fighter (FGFA) with Russia. This is a joint work of the Russian company Sukhoi with Indian colleagues from Hindustan Aeronautics. This job pretty much slips.

In his article, Rahul Singh tries to explain the reasons for the slippage of the Russian-Indian project. However, he refers to the statements of the representative of the Indian Air Force Command. The article stated that FGFA (in fact, it is a modification of the Su-57 in the framework of the very joint project) "does not possess the characteristics that are needed by the Indian Air Force."

Indian Air Force: Su-57 is very expensive and loses F-22 and F-35. We can refuse from FGFA ...


From the material:
The plane loses in many ways not only the F-35, but also the F-22.


An unnamed source claims that India "is not interested in implementing a too expensive program, as a result of which the most modern fighter will not appear."

From the material:
In the command of the Air Force watching the project, but surprised by its incredible cost.


Recall that to date, the amount of the Russian-Indian contract under the FGFA program has decreased to 4 billion dollars. If in New Delhi they seriously believe that this is “incredibly big money” for creating the newest aircraft (5 generation), then I would like to clarify: are they aware of how much the F-35 program costs the United States and their “partners”? There, the amount is an order of magnitude greater than that which appears in the Russian-Indian project.

All these Indian “chamomile fortune-telling” about whether they need a joint project with Russia or not, and whether they need F-35, are similar to India’s typical bargaining system. The goal of New Delhi is one: for a "one and a half rupee" investment get a newest fighter, "which has no analogues in the world," and even with the full transfer of production technology.
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  1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
    Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 17 March 2018 13: 15
    +97
    Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Dimmedroll
          Dimmedroll 17 March 2018 16: 59
          +20
          The bottom line is that they use all this not so hot. I remember when the corvette crossed the way to the bulk carrier and was disabled. They accused Russia that the ship was too invisible on radars and tried to carry out repairs under warranty.
      2. LSA57
        LSA57 17 March 2018 14: 35
        +2
        Quote: PSACI
        It will come in handy soon ..

        this is a threat?
        1. PSACI
          PSACI 17 March 2018 15: 05
          +11
          Quote: LSA57
          Quote: PSACI
          It will come in handy soon ..

          this is a threat?

          No, of course, just advice .. Indians are not warriors, but Bollywood!
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 17 March 2018 15: 41
            +27
            Quote: PSACI
            ... No, of course, just advice .. Indians are not warriors, but Bollywood! ...

            In World War I, 1,5 million Indians fought for the British crown - the scrupulous Saxons “not a warrior” were not shy to use. Sikhs and Gurkhas directly participated in the fighting of the British army around the world, fighting along with soldiers from such dominions as Canada and Australia. In the Second World War, again under the English bayonet, 2 million volunteers stood up - this is the largest volunteer army in history.
            There were also shoals behind the Indians - part of the armed formations fought on the side of Hitler (the Indian Legion of the Wehrmacht - the Legion "Free India") and Japan (the Indian National Army of Subhas Bos).
            Do not be like your nickname - before blurt out, learn the materiel.
            1. Lex.
              Lex. 17 March 2018 15: 57
              +7
              Can the Indo-Chinese war remember who lost there?
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 17 March 2018 16: 23
                +22
                Quote: Lex.
                ... Can the Indo-Chinese war remember who lost there? ...

                You decided to teach me stories wink
                You don’t have to go that far - the pro-Japanese Indian National Army of Subhas Bos, which was created from the captured Indians during the capture of Singapore by the Japanese, and surrendered in Singapore, not having fought for the Emperor Hirohito - by the way, who had the rank of British honorary general laughing
                There are lost wars. I was talking about the incorrectness of superficial estimates - there is no worse than underestimating someone, as well as overestimating yes
                1. DMB_95
                  DMB_95 17 March 2018 16: 46
                  +7
                  Quote: Andrey K
                  ...... there is no worse than underestimating someone, as well as overestimating

                  To underestimate the Indians, of course, is not necessary. But why do they need 5th generation aircraft? They have 4 ++ for the eyes.
                  1. Andrey K
                    Andrey K 17 March 2018 16: 59
                    +26
                    Quote: DMB_95
                    ... Of course, one should not underestimate the Indians. But why do they need 5th generation aircraft? They have enough 4 ++ for the eyes ...

                    There is that "jealous" bride wassat
                    China creates its fifth-generation aircraft, but the Indians did not roll a horse. That's hysterical attempts to come to everything ready and fuck everything at once request
                    1. kuznec
                      kuznec 18 March 2018 14: 10
                      +7
                      I have been to India repeatedly. Yesterday from there. IMHO, this is just our different mentality: if you don't bargain in the bazaar in India, they will treat you with suspicion, and even they won't sell / buy anything at all. They just bargain!
                      On the other hand, we are largely the same: religious and national compatibility (in India there are more than 100 nationalities and ALL religions exist peacefully) and the same gouging, fools and roads.
                      Rus Hindi bhai bhai))
                      1. user1212
                        user1212 19 March 2018 20: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: kuznec
                        there are more than 100 nationalities in India and ALL religions exist peacefully

                        Yeah, nowhere is more peaceful
                        2002 Gujarat massacre. They burned the Muslims alive. About 2000 dead
                        2008 Christian pogroms in Orissa. 60 dead, 25 thousand were left homeless. It began with the assassination of Swami Laksmananda Saraswati, local leader Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), a radical Hindu group. Saraswati actively opposed the conversion of the Hindus to Christianity. Hindu extremists did not believe the Maoists, who claimed responsibility for this murder, and accused the Christians of the crime. They also relieved themselves of all responsibility for the killing of Christians.
                        2013 In the Muzaffarnagar district of the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, 28 people were killed in clashes between opposing religious denominations. At least 50 injured have been reported.
                        2015. About 200 Hindu extremists broke into a Protestant prayer house in the city of Attingal. Pogroms began to beat parishioners, and also caused significant damage to church decoration
                  2. Hottabych
                    Hottabych 19 March 2018 11: 50
                    +3
                    Quote: DMB_95
                    They have 4 ++ for the eyes.

                    No, they really want the 5th! )
                    And judging by the article and the latest events - they stupidly knock down the price ... These are Indians! )))
                2. Hammerlock
                  Hammerlock 18 March 2018 05: 15
                  +1
                  better to overtake than not to finish laughing
            2. Seaman77
              Seaman77 17 March 2018 16: 47
              +9
              Quote: Andrey K
              In World War I, 1,5 million Indians fought for the British crown - the scrupulous Saxons “not a warrior” were not shy to use. Sikhs and Gurkhas directly participated in the fighting of the British army around the world, fighting along with soldiers from such dominions as Canada and Australia. In the Second World War, again under the English bayonet, 2 million volunteers stood up - this is the largest volunteer army in history.


              This is all because there was no Bollywood then wink
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 17 March 2018 17: 00
                +13
                Quote: Seaman77
                ... This is all because there was no Bollywood at that time wink...

                Something I did not think laughing
              2. Hammerlock
                Hammerlock 18 March 2018 05: 16
                +3
                but during the battle (after a successful shot) they sang and danced
            3. Slavs
              Slavs 17 March 2018 20: 38
              +10
              Well, a million fought them there, a million is here, and why ?? Does it define them as great warriors?
            4. Reklastik
              Reklastik 21 March 2018 18: 26
              0
              in the fighting of the British army around the world
              and on the Russian-German front?
            5. Busan
              Busan 23 March 2018 22: 54
              0
              I can’t say for the Gurkhas, Nepal is a multiconfessional country, although most of them are really Indians, but Sikhs are Sikhs, and not Indians.

              It first.
              In World War I, the Anglo-Indian troops were manned by people of different faiths, and not by Indians alone. In fact, the Indians in the Anglo-Indian army were a minority, most were Muslims and Sikhs.
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 24 March 2018 10: 59
                +6
                Quote: Busan
                ... Actually, the Indians in the Anglo-Indian army were a minority, most were Muslims and Sikhs ...

                Everything is fine, with one exception - you have mixed nationality and religion. Sikhs (mainly Punjabis), Muslims (present-day Pakistan) and Gurkhas (present-day Nepal) are Hindus. They were divided according to minks after the Second World War.
                1. Busan
                  Busan 24 March 2018 11: 40
                  +1
                  It is easy to see that you confuse nationality, religion, citizenship, historical roots.

                  All the ethno-confessional groups listed to you are historical Indians, i.e. residents of historical India, but neither Sikhs, nor Muslims who live in Pakistan, who live in India, nor Ceylon Sinhalese are Indians, and all of them are Indians.
                  ===============
                  Summing up - you call Indians Indians, which is obviously wrong.

                  By the way, as an example - the Tamils ​​of Ceylon, they are Indians, but they are not Indians, in the sense of non-Aryans.
                  1. Andrey K
                    Andrey K 24 March 2018 12: 37
                    +6
                    Quote: Busan
                    ... To summarize - you call Indians Indians, which is obviously wrong.
                    By the way, as an example - the Tamils ​​of Ceylon, they are Indians, but they are not Indians, in the sense of non-Aryans ...

                    Somewhere you are right - I use the term Hindu in one context. As indeed they are us.
                    Judging by the surname, you are either a representative of the Central Asian ethnic group, or from the middle Volga. I have a Russian surname - but I am only half that.
                    For the rest of the world, we are both Russian. Absolutely no one will understand our ethnic differences and especially religious laughing
          2. Alex777
            Alex777 17 March 2018 15: 41
            +8
            You have chosen a very successful nickname. Comments are just like from herself! bully
            1. antivirus
              antivirus 17 March 2018 19: 30
              +1
              and will give birth soon?
              1. tun5t
                tun5t 18 March 2018 18: 29
                0
                Gave birth already, check it yourself. laughing
          3. edigs
            edigs 17 March 2018 20: 47
            +2
            Pakistan they kept no matter how! So they need to confront Pakistan and China.
            1. olgsei2017
              olgsei2017 18 March 2018 17: 25
              0
              I remember they fought well on tanks.
      3. zivXP
        zivXP 17 March 2018 20: 38
        +2

        PSAKI (Laurel) Today, 13:23 PM ↑
        Yes, let them buy what these Indians want to look at their army funny ..
        You Russians take care of your weapons! It will come in handy soon ..

        Hindus are such people. that today - no, and tomorrow - yes. They will bargain to the last for every penny, it's in their blood. Here you are not Russian, although not Indians, but another thing.
      4. Zefr
        Zefr 17 March 2018 22: 20
        +9
        A little strange, I remember that the Indians bent the Americans in training air battles on the fours. Very drowned for them here. Why is it so disparaging now, about them, they say here?
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 18 March 2018 04: 49
          +5
          You have to be a rare moron in an open battle, face-to-face on KV-1 to shove Pyzy3 or even 2 fool The Hindus were given the KV-1 (su-30) and then they had to try hard to merge.
    2. Andrey K
      Andrey K 17 March 2018 13: 23
      +51
      Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      ... Oh, what I would like to see is the f-35 Indians ...

      It is unlikely that we will be long and tedious to listen to the tramp of Indian dances lol
      They with their want-do not want, lifted all the sellers laughing
      However, we have a chance - the Indians themselves at one time asked for "beloved wives," so they sit tight on the kukan. All these Wishlist are nothing more than a desire to bring down the price and get more. Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing wassat
      Hindus request
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 March 2018 13: 37
        +39
        Quote: Andrey K
        Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing

        It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... enough, the Indians are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October.
        1. Artek
          Artek 17 March 2018 13: 40
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          Quote: Andrey K
          Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing

          It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... enough, the Indians are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October.


          in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 17 March 2018 14: 24
            0
            By this, the author means
            not the most modern fighter will appear. ”
            I don’t know what to explain anymore.
          2. Voyager
            Voyager 17 March 2018 14: 43
            +17
            Who says 117 engines are not suitable for the 5th generation? Compare pancake with T34
            1. Artek
              Artek 17 March 2018 16: 01
              0
              Quote: Voyager
              Who says 117 engines are not suitable for the 5th generation? Compare pancake with T34

              what’s suitable, or what?
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 17 March 2018 17: 16
                +7
                Namely, this was repeatedly said. Su-57 on the engines of the first stage is quite capable of reaching supersonic sound without afterburner. Moreover, the engines of the second stage will not give an increase in thrust.
                1. Artek
                  Artek 17 March 2018 17: 18
                  +1
                  Quote: Voyager
                  Namely, this was repeatedly said. Su-57 on the engines of the first stage is quite capable of reaching supersonic sound without afterburner. Moreover, the engines of the second stage will not give an increase in thrust.


                  no need to drive, 117-15 tons, product 30-18 tons
                  1. Voyager
                    Voyager 17 March 2018 17: 27
                    +15
                    First, talk to me more politely.
                    The second one. There is no exact data on the product 30, there are only rumors with a draft of 16 to 18 tons, which is not a big difference with a draft of 117.
                    The third. This does not negate the ability to go to supersonic without afterburner at 117.
                    1. Artek
                      Artek 17 March 2018 19: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: Voyager
                      First, talk to me more politely.
                      The second one. There is no exact data on the product 30, there are only rumors with a draft of 16 to 18 tons, which is not a big difference with a draft of 117.
                      The third. This does not negate the ability to go to supersonic without afterburner at 117.

                      it’s better not to talk to you at all, because there’s nothing to talk about.
              2. tun5t
                tun5t 18 March 2018 18: 34
                0
                Che translated yourself know what wassat
              3. figwam
                figwam 18 March 2018 19: 53
                +2
                Yes, what is the dispute, the F-35 generally does not have supersonic without afterburner, but is called the fifth generation.
          3. Alex-a832
            Alex-a832 17 March 2018 15: 46
            +9
            Quote: Artek
            in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

            Hindus can be understood with their gypsy mentality. Traded like a flea market.
            But what is your interest? Are you afraid that many Su-57 technologies will not get through the Indians to our mattress “partners”? Fully equipped, they can only get direct allies who have confidence, for example, in Belarus.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Alex-a832
                Alex-a832 17 March 2018 16: 59
                +8
                Quote: Artek
                my interest, what would you answer for the bazaar, and yours, what would you not answer? Say one thing, do another?

                On the line of "responsible for the bazaar" the United States holds the lead - they do not care about the agreements, they are only used to the "concepts" like urks.
                As for the "bazaars" of Russia, it seemed to me that treaties and agreements on the Su-57 had not yet been signed with the Indians.
                1. Artek
                  Artek 17 March 2018 17: 05
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex-a832
                  On the line of "responsible for the bazaar" the United States holds the lead - they do not care about the agreements, they are only used to the "concepts" like urks.


                  here it’s not necessary to become like pin_dosam — it’s not in the traditions of our people. The Ideans have already paid for the development of the 5th generation, so give me your word, hold on.
                  1. Alex-a832
                    Alex-a832 17 March 2018 18: 10
                    +8
                    Quote: Artek
                    here it’s not necessary to become like pin_dosam — it’s not in the traditions of our people. The Ideans have already paid for the development of the 5th generation, so give me your word, hold on.

                    I don’t know what the Indians paid for, and the Indians paid what they will receive. We do not have and have not had the practice of violating such contracts. If they decide to interpret the contract ambiguously, then this is their problem.
                    1. Artek
                      Artek 17 March 2018 18: 31
                      0
                      Quote: Alex-a832
                      I don’t know what the Indians paid for, and the Indians paid what they will receive. We do not have and have not had the practice of violating such contracts. If they decide to interpret the contract ambiguously, then this is their problem.
                      Reply Quote Complaint


                      talk like that? do not know? Well, do not say.
              2. Nikolai Grek
                Nikolai Grek 17 March 2018 18: 56
                +4
                Quote: Artek
                my interest, what would be responsible for the bazaar,

                At what point in the contract with India did you connect ???? wassat laughing laughing laughing laughing
                1. Artek
                  Artek 17 March 2018 19: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Nikolai Grek
                  Quote: Artek
                  my interest, what would be responsible for the bazaar,

                  At what point in the contract with India did you connect ???? wassat laughing laughing laughing laughing


                  as soon as possible.
            2. Senior manager
              Senior manager 17 March 2018 22: 34
              +3
              Quote: Alex-a832
              who have confidence, for example, in Belarus.

              To Belarus - yes, But But father is dumb.
            3. Max otto
              Max otto 18 March 2018 00: 08
              0
              Quote: Alex-a832

              ... for example, to Belarus.

              Likely you about history, how Old Man S-300 sold in the USA did not hear, right? So here you have to think laughing
          4. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin 17 March 2018 16: 29
            +4
            Quote: Artek
            it's like putting a t90 with engines from t34.

            So, on the T-90 is the development of the engine from the T-34, which, in turn, is a modification of the engine from the BT-7.
            1. Filxnumx
              Filxnumx 17 March 2018 17: 32
              +2
              The "bats" were mainly MT-5, MT-17 (licensed M-5 Liberty and M-17, leading its genealogy from BMW), aircraft engines after major repairs with limited power to increase the resource. And on the T-34 (by the way, on the BT-7M too) they installed the V-2, a diesel version of the French Spanish-Suiza HS-12Y.
              1. Yngvar
                Yngvar 17 March 2018 18: 10
                0
                On the BTR-50 also set the V-2. Good engine!
              2. Yuriy_999
                Yuriy_999 18 March 2018 12: 11
                +1
                "And on the T-34 (though on the BT-7M too) they installed the V-2, a diesel version of the French Spanish-Suise HS-12Y." Well you give. That is, if you fasten the fuel pump instead of the carburetor, do you get diesel? There were no engines AN-1, AD-1? Nothing that the M-100, which is the continuation of Spain, the cylinder head is made together with the shirt unit? “The use of some design solutions” does not mean that they are two identical engines.
            2. Susul
              Susul 18 March 2018 03: 35
              0
              Which in turn was intended for TB-3 =)
              1. Yuriy_999
                Yuriy_999 18 March 2018 12: 21
                +1
                Specifically, B-2 was not intended for TB-3. It was created on the basis of aircraft diesel engines, using the experience of their development and with the help of design bureaus - yes.
          5. Slavs
            Slavs 17 March 2018 20: 40
            +1
            What are you saying? Can I give them all at once?
          6. Conserp
            Conserp 17 March 2018 22: 47
            +2
            Quote: Artek
            in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.


            Dear friend, all engines of the AL-41F family are fifth-generation engines, starting from the one that flew at 1.44.

            Even the engines currently being manufactured for the Su-27 in their specific characteristics meet the criteria of the fifth generation better than the raptor F119.

            "Product 30" is 5+ generation
            1. sabotage
              sabotage 18 March 2018 06: 59
              0
              Quote: Conserp
              Even the engines currently being manufactured for the Su-27 in their specific characteristics meet the criteria of the fifth generation better than the raptor F119.

              I look at the performance indicators of the overhaul life of the SU-27 and F35 engine and I directly believe.
              1. Korb
                Korb 18 March 2018 08: 28
                +2
                And where does the "indicators of the overhaul life of the engine SU-27 and F35 engine SU-27 and F35" ???? We are talking about the characteristics of engines - specific thrust in relation to the weight of the aircraft. In the characteristics of engines of the 5th generation there is no such parameter "overhaul life"
              2. Conserp
                Conserp 18 March 2018 10: 20
                +3
                Quote: sabotage
                I look at the performance indicators of the overhaul life of the SU-27 and F35 engine and I directly believe.


                The hot part of the F135 engine is made of rhenium-ruthenium alloys and therefore this engine costs as much as 300 kg of pure gold.

                It’s necessary not only to watch, but also to understand a little.
                1. sabotage
                  sabotage 18 March 2018 13: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Conserp
                  The hot part of the F135 engine is made of rhenium-ruthenium alloys and therefore this engine costs as much as 300 kg of pure gold.

                  And our engine is free))) And the techniques for their maintenance are also free and are supplied with the aircraft))) And the planes for replacing the boards that are under repair are also free))) For the time that one PW will go for repair, AL -31 after 5-8 repairs will be replaced with a new one.

                  Avaricious pays twice, stupid - three times, sucker always pays. Let the engine be at least platinum, if it is with excellent characteristics, a fantastic resource and simple maintenance - it’s the military thing (the real one).
                  1. Conserp
                    Conserp 18 March 2018 14: 05
                    +1
                    Everything is clear - a troll.
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp 18 March 2018 14: 35
                      +7
                      Just in case, I’ll explain: the AL-31F M1 serial engines have an overhaul life of 1000 hours, work fine and are exported at $ 3.5 million each.

                      F135 costs $ 13 million, the last time its overhaul life was announced back in 2008, in advertising, as "2000 hours" (and the first production engine was released in 2010).
                      Since then, the numbers have disappeared even from advertising. Probably very fantastic turned out, which hints at the non-flying condition of half of the park.
                      1. NN52
                        NN52 18 March 2018 14: 56
                        +10
                        Conserp

                        Ahead of me with the answer to the troll ...
                    2. sabotage
                      sabotage 18 March 2018 17: 15
                      0
                      Quote: Conserp
                      Everything is clear - a troll.

                      Of course, a troll. I also receive a salary in the State Department.

                      Selling something for 3,5 million may be selling, and then it will be recapitalized through UEC or bad loans. Swam - we know.
                    3. AFHENOGEN
                      AFHENOGEN 18 March 2018 17: 47
                      0
                      And noble!
                  2. NN52
                    NN52 18 March 2018 14: 42
                    +10
                    sabotage

                    Do you know the engine resource on Fu 35? Do not tell me, pzhl? Or one blah blah blah? Only subject pzhl ///
                    I will answer you in detail why the Chinese are chasing our engines, and asking under the contract to board the Su 35 not two dvig spare, but four ...
                    Because the resource of our dvigla is 1 hours, with scheduled maintenance after 000 without rolling out ...
                    And they have a copy resource of more than 500 hours does not work ...
                    Now answer pzhl to my question.
                    Or are you really a troll ///
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp 18 March 2018 15: 58
                      +2
                      Quote: NN52
                      Because the resource of our dvigla is 1 hours, with scheduled maintenance after 000 without rolling out ...

                      The assigned resource of the old AL-31F is 1500 hours.

                      Also, the methods for accounting for resource hours are different ... Americans do not consider it in real watches, but in "cycles", which are then converted into "equivalent hours" by chisel.
                      1. NN52
                        NN52 18 March 2018 16: 50
                        +8
                        Conserp

                        Look pzhl my data ... No offense ... it's about 35C ...
                        I don’t know about amers ..
                      2. NN52
                        NN52 18 March 2018 16: 54
                        +9
                        Do you also know about D 30F6?
          7. Mih1974
            Mih1974 18 March 2018 04: 50
            0
            Well then - let’s put 100 barrels of ever-green American presidents on a barrel. tongue
          8. Grigory_78
            Grigory_78 7 May 2018 11: 13
            0
            Quote: Artek
            in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

            "promised the fifth generation fighter"? Nobody promised them anything. FGFA is a collaborative project. Joint, okay? And with regard to its development, the Indians did not hit finger on finger. An investment of 5 million bucks in the development of a 300th generation aircraft is tears. And if the Indians do not need it, then who is to blame? We have the development of the Su-5 in the first place, and rightly so.
        2. Andrey K
          Andrey K 17 March 2018 13: 54
          +42
          Quote: Ascetic
          ... It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... here are the Indians and are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October ...

          Stanislav, you have identified one of the artificial problems created by the Indians. Look at their participation in the FGFA project (joint project). There is such tyagomotin and redneck on the Indian side, that you are amazed - how arrogant enough to be capricious and generally demand something. Without really investing in the project - neither in the glider, nor in the engine - essentially speaking as the customer of the aircraft, the Indians demand technology transfer and begin to make complaints about the layout of the aircraft.
          About the "transfer" of technology, generally a separate song. Even if, simply presumably, ours would agree to transfer technologies, there simply are no sites in India where these technologies could be applied. From the word not at all. The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years. At the same time, even the fact that they licensedly release and “mess around” periodically — they manage to make claims and make unflattering stuffs in the media, with a finger pointing towards Russia as a product developer.
          Our partner is monetary, but very peculiar. Business is business - our merchants from the military-industrial complex have already learned the behavior patterns of Indian buyers and are just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances yes
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 17 March 2018 14: 39
            +4
            Quote: Andrey K
            The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years.

            It was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
            difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time.
            1. Andrey K
              Andrey K 17 March 2018 14: 51
              +13
              Quote: LSA57
              ... it was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
              difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time ...

              Sergey, everyone is trained. It would be a desire.
              Desire is not observed, but there are more than enough ambitions.
              Currently, in India, a new industrialization program called "Make in India" has been announced. It seems to be a normal, nationally-oriented program designed to develop Indian industry and increase domestic demand, at the expense of its goods.
              Bottom line: the wildest companionship has begun, they pull everything under this program - from electronics to weapons. Partners are often required to transfer technologies that they cannot pull. What I wrote above.
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 17 March 2018 14: 59
                +9
                Quote: Andrey K
                Sergey, everyone is trained. It would be a desire.

                that's it, desire. you start something to show, to tell, zero interest. one topic for conversation, women.
                invited our senior Indian to a restaurant. sat and rested. after that, the foreman invited the Indian to visit him. put on the table a 3 liter can of moonshine lol For three or four days the Indian did not appear at work. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage laughing
                1. Andrey K
                  Andrey K 17 March 2018 15: 44
                  +7
                  Quote: LSA57
                  ... for three or four days, the Indian did not appear at work. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage laughing...

                  Sergey, you see, and for them there is a science that they have been hammered into laughing
                  1. LSA57
                    LSA57 17 March 2018 16: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey K
                    Sergey, you see, and for them there is a science that they have been hammered into

                    Yes, not only to them. we have a lot of internships laughing
                    1. twviewer
                      twviewer 17 March 2018 17: 00
                      0
                      To listen to you, it’s not in Russia that Su 30 years later than in India was adopted, I’m silent about the composition of avionics with Indian components, haven’t you heard about Bramos? laughing
                      1. Korb
                        Korb 18 March 2018 09: 02
                        +3
                        Listen to you - it’s in India that they developed the Su 30, made it, and transferred it to Russia along with technologies laughing and our planes fly only avionics designed and manufactured in India laughing even missile weapons for airplanes were developed and manufactured in India and ours fly only with Brahmos wassat

                        What side is the development, manufacture, and sale and operation of combat aircraft (and not only aircraft) tied to adoption ??? for example, we flew the TU-160 in 1981. , but officially adopted by December 30, 2005 "- and what ??? does it make it worse, doesn’t fly ???? On the contrary, an order (and then a purchase, and even in such an amount) of a physically non-existent, not accepted into service in the country of development of the Su-30 combat aircraft (as well as for example the T-90 tank, etc.) speaks only about the highest reputation of Russia and the Su company (or Uralvagonzavod or other companies), when literally everyone knows that no matter what military equipment or weapons we make, it will be the best in the world (well, or at least not worse than the best world models) bully
                  2. Mih1974
                    Mih1974 18 March 2018 04: 53
                    +2
                    A very “tenderloin” part that is very sensitive and trained by a person, through it always very well comes. good
                2. dzvero
                  dzvero 17 March 2018 16: 11
                  +1
                  Drink at your place in Russia (and here at home) smile ) can; to drink in India at 40 in the shadow of death is like. A third of the bottle and two days was like a rag ... then I did not drink more than two liters of beer at a time, and they strained.
                  1. Captain Pushkin
                    Captain Pushkin 17 March 2018 16: 36
                    +3
                    Quote: dzvero
                    to drink in India at 40 in the shadow of death is like.

                    In my youth, too, this was a fallacy. But after a summer trip to Tashkent, I was convinced that they drink there in any weather and everything, from light wine to pure alcohol. Sinful, personally checked how it works ..
                3. the most important
                  the most important 17 March 2018 18: 02
                  +5
                  Quote: LSA57
                  the foreman invited the Indian to visit him. put a 3 liter can of moonshine on the table for three, or the Indian did not appear at work for four days. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage

                  he didn’t master, he can see technology .... and also the 5th generation aircraft engine they want to learn how to do!
                  1. LSA57
                    LSA57 17 March 2018 18: 19
                    +3
                    Quote: the most important
                    He didn’t master, he can see the technology.

                    the hillock took pity on him, the beetroot did not set laughing
            2. Nikolai Grek
              Nikolai Grek 17 March 2018 18: 59
              +3
              Quote: LSA57
              Quote: Andrey K
              The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years.

              It was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
              difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time.

              they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!! what wassat wassat lol lol lol
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 17 March 2018 19: 24
                +4
                Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!!

                acquaintances guys were there on a business trip and told such an incident. in the factory, the locomotive driver began to take back and accidentally crushed a cow. he didn’t even see her. when he was told, he hung himself right in the cab. ours were astounded. a translator from Indians explained to them that the driver is still not a tenant, he would have been killed anyway for this sacred animal
                1. Nikolai Grek
                  Nikolai Grek 17 March 2018 19: 38
                  +6
                  Quote: LSA57
                  Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                  they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!!

                  acquaintances guys were there on a business trip and told such an incident. in the factory, the locomotive driver began to take back and accidentally crushed a cow. he didn’t even see her. when he was told, he hung himself right in the cab. ours were astounded. a translator from Indians explained to them that the driver is still not a tenant, he would have been killed anyway for this sacred animal

                  mentality + "killing" of a sacred animal !!! request request I don’t know why so surprised !! and finally ... it seems that our people sometimes sometimes wind up too bright ideas about other countries !!! wassat wassat even those who supposedly live super-duper curly-haired !!! lol lol lol
                  1. LSA57
                    LSA57 17 March 2018 20: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: Nikolai the Greek
                    I don’t know why so surprised !!

                    Yes, they somehow could not understand how it was for a cow, even a sacred one, to kill a person.
                    and here is another case. my team leader was on a business trip to Iran. decided to chat with local hard workers. you say heard, on shi in space again flew? the translator was well next to him, grabbed his hand and fled from the local hard workers. it turns out they have the word space it translates as wet ... the female genital organ (I apologize to the admins, but this is not for the mat, but for the completeness of the story) and they could just beat him up for such an insorption. by the way the word brick in their language is also a swear word
            3. Yuriy_999
              Yuriy_999 18 March 2018 09: 56
              0
              And I saw their engineers in 2011. And they are well-rated.
          2. sanja.grw
            sanja.grw 17 March 2018 15: 00
            +8
            and just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances yes

            I remembered a joke - A guy with a girl is walking, she asks him if he likes Indian films. He politely says yes. Then she starts telling one film. 2 hours pass. She - now I will tell the second series, He is good, but not sing and do not dance.
            1. LSA57
              LSA57 17 March 2018 15: 11
              +6
              Quote: sanja.grw
              He is good, just don’t sing or dance.

              there was a time, I don’t know how it is now, in poor Indian villages people dumped themselves and sent one person to the city to watch a movie. when he arrived, he began to tell a film with songs and dances smile
        3. Ustin Umarov
          Ustin Umarov 17 March 2018 20: 35
          0
          Is it right that they immediately show them as a submarine or even sell them at all?
          Some unreliable!
        4. Conserp
          Conserp 17 March 2018 22: 45
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ..


          There is no “engine from the 35th” on this plane. For 7 years they could learn.

          There are other engines, and also - the real fifth generation.

          "Product 30" is 5+ generation
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 17 March 2018 23: 14
            +2
            Quote: Conserp
            There is no “engine from the 35th” on this plane. For 7 years they could learn.
            There are other engines, and also - the real fifth generation.
            "Product 30" is 5+ generation

            In Indian product 117 first stage engine
            product 30 ("engine of the second stage") it is not known whether he passed flight tests and is accepted for pre-production models of the SU-57. The Indians are even more so about them as I was before Bombay
            But "product 127" и "product 129"-engines of the third stage, information is extremely scarce
            1. Conserp
              Conserp 18 March 2018 01: 12
              0
              Quote: Ascetic
              In Hindu stands product 117 first stage engine

              The bottom line is that the 117 is the fifth generation engine.

              The fact that an even more advanced promising engine is already being developed is not at all a reason to vilify it and declare it "inferior," as mattress propagandons and lamers following them do. Quite the opposite - the Raptor is left with a 16-year-old engine and no one is even developing a replacement.

              Quote: Ascetic
              Well, "product 127" and "product 129"

              As far as I remember, there are no such engines - these are the names of the components.
      2. yehat
        yehat 17 March 2018 14: 10
        +6
        for already 3 years, Indians have been trying to force the Russian Federation to transfer fully the PAK FA technologies, including the 2nd generation engine and create production in India, while making the contract price lower than with the French, which the Indians refused.
        All trade and groans about the high cost and modernity revolves around this.
      3. ver_
        ver_ 17 March 2018 14: 29
        +5
        ... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour ..?
        1. Andrey K
          Andrey K 17 March 2018 15: 46
          +8
          Quote: ver_
          ... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour ..? ...

          Nothing strange yes
          It is necessary to ask the Sumerians, they will definitely say and they will find a rationale for this. They ancestored the ancient Egyptians laughing
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 17 March 2018 15: 53
          +2
          Hindus with gypsies are relatives. And those, too, bargain and fool the expert.
        3. LSA57
          LSA57 17 March 2018 18: 22
          +3
          Quote: ver_
          ... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour.

          Well, if you already steal a trump relative ...
      4. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 17 March 2018 16: 10
        +3
        Quote: Andrey K
        However, we have a chance - the Indians themselves at one time asked for “beloved wives”, so they sit tight on the cook.
        They are sitting only on an American cook. While we work with top executives, mattresses are bought second and third, from the Ministry of Defense to “experts”, who issue the “necessary” expert opinions for bribes. The graters of Russia and the USA in the Indian arms market have been going on for several years, because it is very voluminous and those who enter it will be provided with orders for decades. But what’s interesting is that the Indians want to exchange partnership with Russia for dependence on the USA, which is very short-sighted. They don’t want their plane, let them fly on elephants, they only teach them to wave their ears.
    3. Herculesic
      Herculesic 17 March 2018 13: 28
      +6
      On the asses of the elephants they will write f35, and they will even fly on them, provided that the elephants can wave their ears at supersonic speed for takeoff and flight.
      1. Shahno
        Shahno 17 March 2018 13: 31
        +6
        "The latest F-35 Adir aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

        At the same time, the IDF Air Force Command emphasizes that the use of F-35 for combat missions significantly increases the operational capabilities of Israeli military aircraft.

        Earlier, foreign media reported that the F-35 Adir may have participated in one or more operations in Syria. However, there were no official comments on this subject. "

        It was not necessary to drive 57 to Syria, we would still wait with official statements.
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 17 March 2018 13: 33
          +17
          Quote: Shahno
          The latest F-35 “Adir” aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

          And, remember, remember ... Somewhere beyond the Golan Heights ...

          The F-35 fighter recently entered service with the Israeli Air Force was damaged after a collision with two birds,
          https://topwar.ru/127621-izrailskiy-f-35-poluchil
          -povrezhdeniya-posle-stolknoveniya-s-pticami.html
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 17 March 2018 13: 43
            +3
            Yes, the story with storks cheered up. So really people think we set up the base so quickly, they dragged the drugs. And the same message from March 15, the old storks flew away. But yesterday I saw new ones, as always on the sheep come off ...
        2. maiman61
          maiman61 17 March 2018 13: 46
          +12
          Is this the one whose engine got the bird? Do you think that there are fools who believed?
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 17 March 2018 15: 00
            +1
            Quote: maiman61
            Is this the one whose engine got the bird? Do you think that there are fools who believed?

            In the engine? request request
          2. dzvero
            dzvero 17 March 2018 16: 14
            +1
            He trimmed the skin. We must once again look at the photo and find out who did not give in to the interference on the right smile
        3. Lex.
          Lex. 17 March 2018 16: 03
          +1
          The latest F-35 “Adir” aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

          The bird didn’t get into it.
          What then decided to purchase further f-15 and not iron
      2. Simargl
        Simargl 17 March 2018 14: 24
        +1
        Quote: Herkulesich
        On the asses of elephants write f35
        T-14, rather ... or Abrams ...
        1. Yngvar
          Yngvar 17 March 2018 18: 20
          0
          Most likely they will write "Wimana"!
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 17 March 2018 14: 10
        +8
        Quote: Artek
        forum users, but do not tell me why the names appeared near the nicknames of local, what kind of arbitrariness?

        We were opened, dumping .... laughing
      2. the most important
        the most important 17 March 2018 18: 08
        0
        Quote: Artek
        forum users, but do not tell me why the names appeared near the nicknames of local, what kind of arbitrariness?

        And you do as I do - subscribe with a real name !!! laughing
    5. Kent0001
      Kent0001 17 March 2018 13: 54
      +1
      He will take off their last pants from them, although the Indians do not really wear them. All the rags in the rags are wound up.
      SU-57 is already better than Amer’s non-flying crafts, and work continues. Politics, squeezing us everywhere with amers ..... and in many ways successfully ... unfortunately.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 17 March 2018 15: 34
        +1
        Let's start with another, but did anyone offer them the F-35 at all? And maybe they’ll also sell production technologies to them?
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 17 March 2018 15: 46
          0
          Not officially. What is changing?
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 17 March 2018 15: 53
            0
            What changes what? What is not officially offered?
            Or the fact that they will not see any technology with the F-35 as their own ears?
    6. antivirus
      antivirus 17 March 2018 13: 57
      +1
      Do they need an F-35, similar to the typical bargaining system in India. New Delhi has one goal: for "one and a half rupees" of investments to get the latest fighter, "which has no analogues in the world", and even with the complete transfer of production technologies.

      Indians have time to get accustomed - before the 5th generation in China. they can’t fight with the Russian Federation and the USA
    7. Squelcher
      Squelcher 17 March 2018 14: 13
      +5
      You shouldn’t be so, the Indians are not stupid mathematicians, programmers, and techies are very intelligent. One moment that a large population and a lot of uneducated plus caste systems. India was a Colony of Britain and its development stopped, this is an example to the liberals who argue that the West cares about the development of others peoples, actually quite a turn.
      1. sergeyezhov
        sergeyezhov 17 March 2018 14: 49
        +2
        Quote: Squelcher
        You shouldn’t be so, the Indians are not stupid mathematicians, programmers, and techies are very intelligent. One moment that a large population and a lot of uneducated plus caste systems. India was a Colony of Britain and its development stopped, this is an example to the liberals who argue that the West cares about the development of others peoples, actually quite a turn.

        100%
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 17 March 2018 20: 52
        0
        India is developing very quickly and successfully. It is for the reason that it was an English colony: state. English and a democratic form of government.
      3. Conserp
        Conserp 17 March 2018 23: 22
        +3
        Quote: Squelcher
        India was a colony of Britain and its development stopped

        The development of India stopped a thousand years before, like China. Actually, that's why the British bent them.

        The brutal occupation gave them a life-giving kick for understanding the simple truth - you will not develop, they will devour.

        So they are trying. The British sucked out all the juices from India, but at the same time created India as a single state and a single nation, and taught a lot. Dialectics-s.
      4. Arakius
        Arakius 19 March 2018 00: 10
        +1
        The official language of India is English, and there is another country nearby - Afghanistan. Two hundred years ago, it was on the same level of development with India, now, one must think, Afghanistan is much more developed, because he was an English colony
    8. Awaz
      Awaz 17 March 2018 14: 21
      +1
      these Indians, incidentally, quite successfully at Sushki chase the experienced and fought “AS” s of the USA in training battles ..
      1. faridg7
        faridg7 17 March 2018 15: 20
        +3
        Quote: AwaZ
        these Indians, incidentally, quite successfully at Sushki chase the experienced and fought “AS” s of the USA in training battles ..

        But they are not traded, the military will not go down to bidding, the caste is not the same.
    9. Maz
      Maz 17 March 2018 16: 12
      0
      They already Zadovbali, these fastidious Indians. Let them cut out from bamboo and fly from the Pamirs on gliders. The hunks are bad. They want to eat fish and not soak their feet.
    10. sgazeev
      sgazeev 17 March 2018 16: 25
      0
      Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.

      Clintonsha broke her hand while masturbating in an Indian hotel and decided to pity Russia before pleading her sins before the stripes. The weakest link in the BRICS, India. wassatSmall-shaven ruined this people forever.
    11. 73bor
      73bor 17 March 2018 20: 38
      0
      I was always interested to know the HIGH requirements of the Indian Air Force! Like the most belligerent Air Force, no, the most advanced specialists, too, no, it's just the flying BARGES that's all!
    12. Nikolay Fedorov
      Nikolay Fedorov 18 March 2018 10: 05
      +1
      Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.

      Why are you so disliked by the Indians ?! What did they do that ?!
  2. Russia
    Russia 17 March 2018 13: 16
    +13
    Again they didn’t share technologies, they take on weak smile
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 17 March 2018 13: 26
      +18
      This is always the case in the market.
      1. Russia
        Russia 17 March 2018 13: 33
        +11
        That's for sure, the main thing is honest and noble. smile
    2. Dreamboat
      Dreamboat 17 March 2018 13: 34
      +2
      The dependence on the Hindus was very large in the 90s, now we must first think about our VKS.
      And let the Indians vyzhivatsya and work off bribes from the Americans ... while China re-equip its Air Force.
    3. Kent0001
      Kent0001 17 March 2018 13: 54
      +2
      Let Lockheed Martin share with them ... for free!
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 17 March 2018 14: 00
      +2
      antivirus 6 Yesterday, 20:35 | How Manstein saved the German army from the Caucasian "cauldron"
      about professionals--
      1.-10 years before the war, it is necessary to build mines, mines, met-combines
      2.- 15 years before the war, it is necessary to release teachers with diplomas and other "bespectacles". to learn how to build and operate according to paragraph 1.
      3. And in parallel with the teachers, it is necessary, for 15 liters before the war, to release engineers (logarithms + liquidus + solidus = material science).
      4. -for 10 liters before the war from p3. must learn to work in clause 1. and clause 2.
      5.-in parallel with n 1-4 should be issued in military schools ml lieutenants -units and equipment for aviation.
      WITHOUT NUMBER - WITH THE HORSE, IT IS NECESSARY TO TRANSFER THE HUGE COUNTRY ON THE ICE. -DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THE MOTOR ROWS.
      further, everyone knows that they did not create EBN and GDP now and personally they could do it INSTEAD of the presidents.
      There was enough air superiority for the surroundings-- and there wasn’t
      materials science and logarithms were not known to many who should know
      see the number of million pieces of brick and cement (85 years ago, manual labor) for ped schools in n2
      A complaint
      1. shvn
        shvn 17 March 2018 16: 57
        +1
        I didn’t understand a damn thing, but very interesting))
        1. Nikolay Fedorov
          Nikolay Fedorov 18 March 2018 10: 40
          +1
          Quote: shvn
          I didn’t understand a damn thing, but very interesting))

          Yes, he himself didn’t understand what he wrote. There are many thoughts, and they all jump, often in different directions ...
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 18 March 2018 21: 50
            0
            one thought - you have to go to the brick factory to work, who does not know where the academics come from
            In "Moscow does not believe in tears," it is clearly said about Gogu - "50% of the dissertation was done with his hands"

            THE BASIS OF MY "BRILLIANT THOUGHT" AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL DRAWING OF THE COUNTRY INTO THE FUTURE IS THE SUSTAINABLE MOVEMENT OF ALL COMMUNITY (SOCIETY?), AND NOT UNITS-GENIUS
            1. Nikolay Fedorov
              Nikolay Fedorov 19 March 2018 15: 51
              +1
              Quote: antivirus
              one thought - you have to go to the brick factory to work, who does not know where the academics come from
              In "Moscow does not believe in tears," it is clearly said about Gogu - "50% of the dissertation was done with his hands"

              THE BASIS OF MY "BRILLIANT THOUGHT" AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL DRAWING OF THE COUNTRY INTO THE FUTURE IS THE SUSTAINABLE MOVEMENT OF ALL COMMUNITY (SOCIETY?), AND NOT UNITS-GENIUS

              I had previously suspected that you were for everything good, against everything bad.
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 19 March 2018 20: 02
                0
                I am glad for your happiness.
                together - we are force.
  3. Evil 55
    Evil 55 17 March 2018 13: 19
    +6
    Again Khitrondusy knock down the price .. This is already when working with them naturally and expectedly ..
  4. Separ
    Separ 17 March 2018 13: 20
    +6
    Something the Indians became picky in arms - fight on elephants in this case ...
    1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 17 March 2018 13: 23
      +29
      Quote: Separ
      fight on elephants in that case ...

      Local flavor however. Commander T-90 in India.
      1. Falcond
        Falcond 17 March 2018 14: 07
        +1
        Actually, not only when it's hot, but also when the commander does not fit into the tank;)))
        1. chingachguc
          chingachguc 17 March 2018 15: 12
          +2
          where's the whip? It’s necessary to drive a tank!
          1. Separ
            Separ 17 March 2018 17: 47
            0
            And if the tank goes wild am
  5. maiman61
    maiman61 17 March 2018 13: 22
    +4
    Refuse, refuse! When the Chinese will press, then with yells and snot will you ask Russia to sell the planes, and then what for we need beggars?
    1. Vard
      Vard 17 March 2018 13: 26
      +1
      And to offer Pakistan ... They are not as harmful as India ...
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 March 2018 13: 39
        +3
        Quote: Vard
        suggest to Pakistan ... They are not as harmful as India ...

        It’s the same as giving China for free.
        1. Lex.
          Lex. 17 March 2018 16: 06
          0
          Su35 was sold, engines cannot be copied as Khadarenok said
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 17 March 2018 13: 43
        +6
        Pakistan has a compact Air Force development program. For the next 10 years, only JF-17 in the form of MFIs. The 2 block and the double B based on the 2 block are already in the series. The 3 Block is coming with a bunch of improvements and a new Chinese AFAR.


        In the future, it is logical that they will choose one of the models of the Chinese 5 generation and will assemble it at their Chinese factory - where they are now assembling the JF-17.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 March 2018 20: 59
          0
          Right. Pakistan 5th generation will be guaranteed. China will soon begin to intensively sell its semi-clone F-35 to its allies. And the Indians were stuck at a crossroads.
          It’s not possible to create one, with Russia, it didn’t work (and it’s late anyway). Buying the F-35 is also not handy: you need to buy a bunch of weapons for its internal compartments. In addition, the F-35 is a long line, while the Indians sign up, deliveries will begin in 7 years no earlier.
        2. Conserp
          Conserp 17 March 2018 23: 26
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          In the future - it’s logical that they will choose one of the models of the Chinese 5th generation

          In the distant future, when China will have the 5th generation.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 March 2018 23: 29
            0
            Have they not already formed the first squadron? Recently it was in print.
            1. Conserp
              Conserp 18 March 2018 01: 37
              +2
              China has not yet been able to fully master the 4th generation aerodynamics - they make exact large-scale copies of air intakes from the MiG-23 on planes, etc .; the Chinese still have not been able to copy the base AL-31F; Evda mastered the programming of EMDS - quite recently, instead of software balancing, ballast loads were shoved into the Su-27 clones.

              Instead of real-world designing, component-wise copying is often done a la cargo cult. Not enough sophisticated technologies and materials science.

              And with avionics they have - not so hot. The fact that they supposedly have AFAR does not mean anything. AFAR can make a student in the garage. The main thing is not apharism, the main thing - with an aphorism, the power and noise level for it to work - and preferably better than a conventional radar. China, obviously not from a good life, continues to buy obsolete radars from us.

              So where does China come from the 5th generation? It’s not enough to paint the plane gray.

              China over the past 20 years has run a distance of 40 years, it deserves respect. But he lagged behind all 70.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 18 March 2018 15: 35
                0
                These problems are solvable. Hired for big salaries and bonuses
                good aviation engineers from leading corporations, and competent
                design is getting better. Moreover, quickly.
                1. Conserp
                  Conserp 18 March 2018 17: 13
                  0
                  You are mistaken - even Americans do not succeed in throwing any problems with a bunch of dough. And they have been doing this for 20 years now, the results are obvious.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 18 March 2018 18: 01
                    0
                    China will follow the path of Japan of the 70s and South Korea of ​​the 90s.
                    Both countries quickly learned how to design and advanced
                    in first place in the world in high technology.
                    China is the third in the Far East and with immeasurably large financial resources.
                    You, it seemed to me from your posts, have an overestimated opinion about a good Russian scientific and engineering school (born in the 30s and 40s from American and German) and understated about everyone else.
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp 18 March 2018 22: 11
                      0
                      I draw conclusions solely on the specific results of their activities.

                      Large financial resources and the ability to steal or buy someone else’s finished goods are corrupting instead of developing.

                      The degradation of the American military aircraft industry and the lag in the Chinese, with some knowledge, are quite obvious both in general and in particular.
  6. Herculesic
    Herculesic 17 March 2018 13: 25
    +6
    In my opinion, the Indians just need to be sent, and as far as possible. Announce the closure of the joint project with them. Tired of your arrogance, let the penguins buy!
  7. seos
    seos 17 March 2018 13: 26
    0
    Offer China the joint development of a 5th generation light fighter ... Hindus will immediately become goodies ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 17 March 2018 13: 44
      +4
      China has two programs - it will refuse. Rather, only technical cooperation or single procurement for a look-compare
    2. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 17 March 2018 14: 49
      0
      China does not need airplanes, it seems, but a good filling for them, so new engines would be torn off with their hands laughing
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 17 March 2018 15: 02
        +3
        Well, in electronics they have their own shaft. According to AFAR, they have the largest module production plant in the world.
        Engines yes.
        Glider, weight and other% of used volume - they most likely worked closely with domestic design bureaus and institutes in the framework of consultations and limited volumes of work on outsourcing.
        The armament is debatable, they have a lot of secrets, a lot of draws. But if you look at export from medium-long range, their BB missiles are not impressive.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 17 March 2018 15: 04
          0
          Everything seems to be there, but there is no result. Common situation...
      2. lance
        lance 17 March 2018 15: 23
        0
        and what will they do with the new engines if they can’t repeat al41f, will they sell the United States?
  8. In h
    In h 17 March 2018 13: 26
    +1
    But technology would not be necessary ...
  9. groks
    groks 17 March 2018 13: 26
    +3
    Everything in the last paragraph. If this were not just bargaining, but the final position, then conclusions could be drawn from this about the concept of the Indian Armed Forces. And so ... an occasion for local cheers patriots to jump.
  10. Bumbarash
    Bumbarash 17 March 2018 13: 27
    +1
    This is normal. There is no need to expect anything else from them. They want everything at once. Is free. Such friends ..... and the museum.
  11. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 17 March 2018 13: 27
    +3
    Right now, groups in the Indian Ministry of Defense are determined by lobbying opportunities, cut off all coupons from applicants, bargain to the seller’s gray hair, and quickly decide laughing True, history shows that all this lasts for years ... We must calmly wait for them to ripen and buy from us, what for them space costs ... though. They can choose, however, a truly "wise" option - to buy both little by little laughing For us, the main thing is that with the help of our joint program we have largely put our 57th wing on the wing ...
  12. Dormidont
    Dormidont 17 March 2018 13: 27
    0
    In the east it is customary to bargain
  13. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 17 March 2018 13: 29
    +1
    But what, as you know, there are two fools at the bazaar ... In general, it seems to me that the point is not the price and the country of manufacture, but the process itself! Well, the Indians really like this process ... Not a trading process, no. The process of being able to bargain! Here we are, yesterday we were a colony, but today we wrinkle our nose, choose ... and from whom? The super-duper powers that looked down on us yesterday!
    Something like this!
    And more ... If they fly, as well as marching at a parade, then maybe hell them? That is a sight ... May the Circus and the peacock-mawlins forgive me!
  14. sir_obs
    sir_obs 17 March 2018 13: 31
    0
    Is it our dear compared to the US? it is no longer the Kama Sutra, it is a banal perversion.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 March 2018 21: 04
      0
      This is reality. The usual Su-30 is about 1/3 of the American, and the Su-57 is about 2/3 of the American. But a new 2-seater indian is still needed R&D. It turns out more expensive than the finished F-35
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 17 March 2018 23: 30
        +2
        The "ready" F-35 has not yet been allowed even to state tests, and half of the fleet of almost three hundred prototypes (!) Is stable in non-flying condition.
        1. sabotage
          sabotage 18 March 2018 07: 06
          0
          Quote: Conserp
          "Ready" F-35 is still not even allowed to state tests

          It would be strange if they sent their F35 to us for state testing))) They didn’t have any combat tests. And they do not have the procedure of state tests.
          1. Conserp
            Conserp 18 March 2018 10: 25
            +1
            Quote: sabotage
            they do not have state test procedures.

            There is a state testing procedure in the United States, in their bourgeois language it is called OT&E.

            Are you trying to troll like that or have you simply decided to show off with a powerful intellect?
            1. sabotage
              sabotage 18 March 2018 13: 55
              0
              Quote: Conserp
              Are you trying to troll like that or have you simply decided to show off with a powerful intellect?

              Of course troll))) What else to do with you !!!

              If the device is in combat parts, then the tests have passed. There are flaws, the manufacturer will eliminate.
              1. Conserp
                Conserp 18 March 2018 17: 22
                +2
                Quote: sabotage
                If the unit is in combat parts

                This is called trial operation.

                Quote: sabotage
                then the tests have passed.

                And in the report for January 2018 it is written that he did not pass the tests and could not pass: he cannot even be admitted to them by the sum of structural defects.

                But do not be shy, write more, show the contents of your head. So I don’t even have to mock you.
                1. sabotage
                  sabotage 18 March 2018 19: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Conserp
                  But do not be shy, write more, show the contents of your head. So I don’t even have to mock you.

                  I can do everything for you.

                  Quote: Conserp
                  by the sum of structural defects, he cannot even be admitted to them.

                  I would like for our technology to consider this a structural defect. What to take from savages: instead of hastily handing over new equipment by the reporting date, they finish it in the work process. And problems, when they arise, do not hide.
                  1. Conserp
                    Conserp 18 March 2018 19: 22
                    +1
                    To justify corruption and design impotence is a thankless task. But you go on, go on.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 18 March 2018 15: 28
            0
            "They except that there were no combat tests." ////

            We already had it. F-35s participated in raids on Syria on February 10.
            There are no complaints of insufficient combat readiness.
            1. Andrey K
              Andrey K 18 March 2018 16: 03
              +5
              Quote: voyaka uh
              ... we already had. F-35s participated in raids on Syria on February 10.
              There are no complaints of insufficient combat readiness ...

              Alexey hi
              The participation of your F-35s in raids on Syria was so secretly invisibly successful that nowhere except your new homeland is heard wink
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 18 March 2018 16: 35
                +1
                This is good. It should be so. good
                1. Andrey K
                  Andrey K 18 March 2018 16: 37
                  +5
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  ... This is good. It should be so. good...

                  You know, I agree, without irony.
                  Less dust, more work yes
              2. sabotage
                sabotage 18 March 2018 17: 17
                +1
                Quote: Andrey K
                The participation of your F-35s in raids on Syria was so secretly invisibly successful that nowhere except your new homeland is heard

                The existence of Syria is so invisible that no one has any idea who bombed anyone or where.
      2. NN52
        NN52 18 March 2018 15: 37
        +8
        voyaka uh

        For prices I agree with you ..
        And for 2-seater too, it’s actually a new airplane ... and there isn’t even R&D for it, the Indians paid only $ 295 mil, as if for a 2-seater design and that's all ///
        And why do we need this?
        Although they voiced their Wishlist on 127 sides ...
        And there you need about $ 25 billion ... for everything ...
  15. Azazelo
    Azazelo 17 March 2018 13: 32
    0
    Wow, how does it overwhelm that the technology did not work from Russia. )))
  16. shadow
    shadow 17 March 2018 13: 32
    0
    And with mathematics, the Indians are bad
  17. keeper03
    keeper03 17 March 2018 13: 36
    0
    Hindus do not get it or something, now it’s not the 90s, when we could twist our hands! Now we want to twist someone we want, but don’t want with us, so buy American wunderwaffles at space prices !!! laughing yes
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 17 March 2018 13: 56
      +3
      Are you behind the times? Not space but quite comparable.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 17 March 2018 16: 57
        0
        Quote: Shahno
        Are you behind the times? Not space but quite comparable.

        What are they comparable with?
        The cost of the latest F-15 modification: $ 29 million ... and the cost of the F-35: $ 100 mil, and only from 2019 promise a reduction to $ 85 mil
        So I don’t really want to compare, given the tried and tested F-15 system, which has no stocks and like the F-35 super plane, which constantly does not go off the TV screens with its problems.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 17 March 2018 17: 03
          0
          Well? You want you to stop at the hornet. Never...
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 17 March 2018 17: 06
            0
            Quote: Shahno
            Well? You want you to stop at the hornet. Never

            I want to say that the F-35 for Lockheed Martin provides super profit, and whether or not to buy you is not mine. Everyone deceives himself as he wants
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 17 March 2018 17: 30
              0
              Well, put forward your project for 50 million dollars, Russia ahead.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 March 2018 23: 32
          0
          "The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

          If! Silent Eagle Boeing Israel offered 10 million years ago for 100 million (instead of the F-35)
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 17 March 2018 23: 56
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            "The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

            Now, let's do it in great detail so as not to be known as a talker ..................... I wanted to know the sources, etc.
            What does not suit you?
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 18 March 2018 12: 19
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              "The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

              I can’t talk and write at the same time on the site, I wrote nonsense.
        3. Conserp
          Conserp 18 March 2018 17: 51
          0
          Quote: APASUS
          The cost of the latest F-15 modification: $ 29 million.


          In 2001, the F-15E was purchased by the US Air Force for $ 76 million ($ 107 million in terms of 2018)
  18. askort154
    askort154 17 March 2018 13: 40
    0
    Trading with Indians is tantamount to talking with a gypsy fortune teller in the market.
  19. HMR333
    HMR333 17 March 2018 13: 42
    0
    there’s nothing to discuss! some kind of washerwoman from an unnamed source decided that he was an expert and this stuff was given out by journalists! let a specific serious expert issue and not a journalistic bullshit about an unknown expert, they must have dashed themselves for more hype and for viewing readers!
  20. Graz
    Graz 17 March 2018 13: 46
    0
    I doubt that the US will be sold to Indians f35 even if they want to buy it
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 17 March 2018 13: 51
      0
      Without technology, it’s enough to bring down the price ..
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 17 March 2018 14: 20
        0
        Quote: Shahno
        Without technology, it’s enough to bring down the price ..

        Yes, let them sell, only for, we’ll cut together with the F-35 Indians so that they can put what they want on their 5th generation aircraft. And for one glance, what good is there ..... fellow
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 17 March 2018 14: 35
          +1
          Well, no question. We will have more work. You look and Russia will pay specialists. And it’s completely boring. Or decide for five years, it’s better from scratch ...
      2. Servisinzhener
        Servisinzhener 17 March 2018 14: 29
        +1
        This will not suit them. They want to eat a fish and a "drink aquarium." Yes, and cheaper.
  21. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 17 March 2018 13: 53
    0
    And huh hu not ho ho Indians? Yes, then find other partners and do not fool us. Well then take F 22, and even better F35 and you will immediately upgrade them.
  22. Lock36
    Lock36 17 March 2018 13: 53
    +2
    A more corrupt state with more corrupt officials cannot be found in the whole world.
    It is through this prism that we must look at all their "statements."
  23. The comment was deleted.
    1. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 17 March 2018 16: 27
      +3
      Quote: Grandfather Makhno
      I hate Indians (gypsies)

      You simply cannot make out the riddle in them ...
  24. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 17 March 2018 13: 57
    0
    A woman with a cart, the mare is easier !!! Let these stupid Indians go on foot erotic journey. Russia has nothing more to do but strengthen their defenses and fill our bureaucrats pockets. First of all, you need to resolve your issues !!!
  25. myrzilka
    myrzilka 17 March 2018 13: 59
    0
    Refuse the fifth generation joint project? To propose it to be developed jointly with Pakistan, I think the packs will agree with pleasure. And then see the reaction, to this, of the adherents of the Kama Sutra))))
    1. KERMET
      KERMET 17 March 2018 14: 04
      +2
      Hindus forcibly stuffed no one into friends, I personally like the approach of the Hindus, that’s exactly how we need to achieve the most favorable conditions for contracts for our state, there is something to learn
  26. konstantin68
    konstantin68 17 March 2018 14: 04
    +2
    Quote: Andrey K
    Quote: Ascetic
    ... It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... here are the Indians and are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October ...

    Stanislav, you have identified one of the artificial problems created by the Indians. Look at their participation in the FGFA project (joint project). There is such tyagomotin and redneck on the Indian side, that you are amazed - how arrogant enough to be capricious and generally demand something. Without really investing in the project - neither in the glider, nor in the engine - essentially speaking as the customer of the aircraft, the Indians demand technology transfer and begin to make complaints about the layout of the aircraft.
    About the "transfer" of technology, generally a separate song. Even if, simply presumably, ours would agree to transfer technologies, there simply are no sites in India where these technologies could be applied. From the word not at all. The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years. At the same time, even the fact that they licensedly release and “mess around” periodically — they manage to make claims and make unflattering stuffs in the media, with a finger pointing towards Russia as a product developer.
    Our partner is monetary, but very peculiar. Business is business - our merchants from the military-industrial complex have already learned the behavior patterns of Indian buyers and are just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances yes

    More precisely, you will not say!
  27. New Year day
    New Year day 17 March 2018 14: 05
    0
    just the Indians are knocking down the price. The same maneuver was with frigate purchases.
  28. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 March 2018 14: 06
    0
    Oh ho! Is it expensive for them? Yes, then let the F-35 buy, and defend on it. I would cut the auction system in place of ours. How to "mess up" - the price increases by 10%. And so every time, only 10% of the already increased price ... Sober up at once ...
    1. Hanokem
      Hanokem 17 March 2018 15: 07
      +1
      Mountain shooter, because you are so principled - you are an employee and work for a salary
  29. Falcond
    Falcond 17 March 2018 14: 06
    0
    A strange comparison .. Americans themselves stopped the release of the F-22 because of their high cost! It is also interesting who and how compared the effectiveness of serial phantoms and experimental dryers yet .. here it is necessary to understand in more detail!
    Well, let's say that the F-35 wins in some ways (in what - let the experts argue) ... but taking into account the preparation of ground-based infrastructure, the purchase of refueling systems, etc. .... multiplied by a hypothetical possibility, that in one a wonderful moment these planes will not take off, being disconnected from the button overseas (there are precedents) ... then their acquisition is in itself a dubious enterprise ....
    My opinion does not pretend to be the ultimate truth!
  30. Terenin
    Terenin 17 March 2018 14: 14
    +3
    Refutation of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation: our airships did not fly over India, and other local air defense aircraft could not be detected. yes
  31. K-50
    K-50 17 March 2018 14: 18
    +2
    The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22

    In addition to the phenomenal (unconfirmed by anything) invisibility, the SU-57 is completely surpassed by the Penguin and the Lizard. So to say that "drying" is inferior, to put it mildly, bullshit.
    Special:
    India “not interested in implementing too expensive a program

    nothing happens for nothing. Nudians (boring painfully negative ) But you need all the technology, drawings and all for free. fool
  32. bald
    bald 17 March 2018 14: 27
    0
    Damn, taught to count money - found with what to compare. And give them the technology of the 5th generation - they’ve specifically become overgrown.
  33. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 17 March 2018 14: 32
    0
    Or maybe in this case, to offer joint development of a new fighter to Pakistan?
  34. Firework
    Firework 17 March 2018 14: 44
    +1
    Quote: Andrey K
    The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China 60-70 years

    you flatter the Hindus, they have a peculiar production culture inherent only to them, you cannot even call this the European Middle Ages
  35. Machete
    Machete 17 March 2018 14: 46
    0
    These are worse than the Sumerians freeloaders.
    For a rupee, they also want a 5th generation aircraft and technology. and fast.
    And the fact that this should take years and in developed countries it costs fabulously expensive does not bother them.
  36. arsen69
    arsen69 17 March 2018 14: 49
    0
    What is there to be surprised at - a normal oriental bazaar. The logic of communication here is simple - well, if everything is so expensive for you, then do it yourself, and if you can not - sit without a 5th generation fighter. China, by the way, already has it, Pakistan also does not lose time, it solves the issue. Wait for everyone around him to have it, except you.
  37. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 17 March 2018 14: 51
    +1
    It's time to send the Indians on foot erotic campaign! and away! laughing tongue wassat
  38. Wedmak
    Wedmak 17 March 2018 14: 53
    0
    Apparently you have to get vimanas out of the garages.
  39. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 17 March 2018 14: 55
    0
    Quote: Shahno
    "The latest F-35 Adir aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

    At the same time, the IDF Air Force Command emphasizes that the use of F-35 for combat missions significantly increases the operational capabilities of Israeli military aircraft.

    Earlier, foreign media reported that the F-35 Adir may have participated in one or more operations in Syria. However, there were no official comments on this subject. "

    It was not necessary to drive 57 to Syria, we would still wait with official statements.

    Yes, they shot him down a long time ago, so now, make a mine with a bad game! laughing tongue wassat
  40. chingachguc
    chingachguc 17 March 2018 15: 06
    +1
    "The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22."

    This phrase reveals the complete incompetence of the author of the article.
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 17 March 2018 15: 08
      +2
      Dear, procedurally really playing around. Technically, if you throw hats, you’ll definitely lose.
      1. iouris
        iouris 17 March 2018 15: 15
        0
        Quote: Shahno
        really plays

        Probably losing, but there is no other Su-57 yet.
      2. chingachguc
        chingachguc 17 March 2018 15: 48
        0
        Well, firstly, neither you nor I know about all the technical nuances of the F-35, and even more so the Su-57. And what kind of FGAF beast is not known to anyone at all. This is the first. And secondly, the author of the article is simply not aware that the F-22 is better than the F-35, which reveals its incompetence. Although, maybe the translator tried here.
      3. Sands Careers General
        Sands Careers General 17 March 2018 16: 20
        +1
        Dear, procedurally really playing around.

        And you, dear, yourself really compared? If not, then it's tryndezh on your part.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 17 March 2018 16: 31
          0
          While there is no Ishur on my part. I wrote you my opinion.
          1. Sands Careers General
            Sands Careers General 17 March 2018 16: 33
            +1
            Whom? I nicht anestend your Jewish words. Speak Russian on the Russian website.
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 17 March 2018 16: 36
              0
              No confirmation ....
    2. Conserp
      Conserp 17 March 2018 23: 35
      0
      Quote: chingachguc
      "The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22."
      This phrase reveals the complete incompetence of the author of the article.


      No, this is an order. Streams of this good from a very specific list of Indian publications have been flowing regularly for 10 years.
  41. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 17 March 2018 15: 08
    0
    And I’ll add to the above ... too many Indians have unlearned in the West and in the USA ... and in fact they are the best promoters of the ideas of a pro-Western orientation ... all the last tenders are oriented to the EU and the USA (except for contracts with a five-year history) ... not in bargaining ... but in changing the orientation vector of politicians ...
  42. iouris
    iouris 17 March 2018 15: 13
    0
    "Very expensive" is a good reason.
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 17 March 2018 15: 20
      0
      No, 85 million per item. Voice the prices of competitors who can provide a combat-ready squadron. Forward...
      1. iouris
        iouris 17 March 2018 15: 34
        0
        Quote: Shahno
        Sound the prices of competitors

        It is clearly said: there is no money. This does not mean that competitors' proposals are being considered. India goes its own way and you can’t forbid it.
      2. anjey
        anjey 17 March 2018 16: 15
        0
        Do you think that I’m afraid for your F-35 squadrons, they’ll just be stolen by Fs too! such grandmothers Rabinovich will drink for a week in Miami ... 85 lemons on a dish - a kosher nightmare ... and that’s it !!!
  43. Fitter65
    Fitter65 17 March 2018 15: 19
    0
    All these Indian chamomile fortune telling about whether they need a joint project with Russia or not, and whether they need an F-35, are similar to the typical bargaining system in India.

    They were slightly late with the bargaining system. China, which has some friction with India, but which supplies Pakistan with its weapons and other military assistance, has so-so-very large frictions with India, so this China is buying the Su-35 from Russia and the S-400, well, we need India, so that China does not completely borzel. The policy is her mother. The larch woodpecker is looking for a leaf. laughing
  44. JD1979
    JD1979 17 March 2018 15: 24
    0
    "Wimans" to help them, let them recall how to build according to their ancient treatises. Gourmets twist their noses, the market is big, let them search.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. flicker
    flicker 17 March 2018 15: 30
    +2
    No way the Indians can decide how to lie: roofing felts along, roofing felts across?
  47. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 17 March 2018 15: 31
    0
    Hindus behave like experienced market traders, the product suits them in all respects, but without merchants. But how is all this predictable and familiar, not a single purchase of our weapons by the Indians has not done without this scheme: Your goods are bad, we will buy from amers, if you do not reduce the price.
  48. lance
    lance 17 March 2018 15: 39
    0
    It was explained to the Indians that they would receive for their money, first of all, a dvigun from c35s, who makes Chinese invisibility and a penguin on his head. if you take a clean lizard without avax, then this is either an equal in skillful hands, or superiority in the neighbor. India has no avax. therefore, they are still interested in the modified radar Pak fa, but reluctantly pay extra, but I also want to reduce the price. probably hope to finalize electronics Israel?
  49. unignm
    unignm 17 March 2018 15: 45
    +1
    well, boobs bruise hi take fu35
  50. anjey
    anjey 17 March 2018 16: 00
    0
    India, as in a parable and from the bridge, I will not go down and I will not free the way
    wisdom and intelligence are maneuvering all interests in our troubled world ... take Russia as an ally - you won’t lose !!!!! The West - it sucks and fascist revenge - it will not pass !!!!