Indian Air Force: Su-57 is very expensive and loses F-22 and F-35. We can refuse from FGFA ...

Not so long ago, Indian media published an article by Indian military experts that it is meaningless for India to enter into a contract with the United States for the purchase of F-35 fighters for the reason that India does not have any ammunition or service system for these aircraft (for example, air tankers) . It was also noted that the software of all systems of this aircraft after the implementation of the F-35 in India will still be under American control.

Now in the Indian edition Hindustan Times An article was published by Rahula Singh, who states that the Indian Air Force is "not suitable" and the joint development of a fifth-generation fighter (FGFA) with Russia. This is a joint work of the Russian company Sukhoi with Indian colleagues from Hindustan Aeronautics. This job pretty much slips.

In his article, Rahul Singh tries to explain the reasons for the slippage of the Russian-Indian project. However, he refers to the statements of the representative of the Indian Air Force Command. The article stated that FGFA (in fact, it is a modification of the Su-57 in the framework of the very joint project) "does not possess the characteristics that are needed by the Indian Air Force."

From the material:

The plane loses in many ways not only the F-35, but also the F-22.

An unnamed source claims that India "is not interested in implementing a too expensive program, as a result of which the most modern fighter will not appear."

From the material:

In the command of the Air Force watching the project, but surprised by its incredible cost.

Recall that to date, the amount of the Russian-Indian contract under the FGFA program has decreased to 4 billion dollars. If in New Delhi they seriously believe that this is “incredibly big money” for creating the newest aircraft (5 generation), then I would like to clarify: are they aware of how much the F-35 program costs the United States and their “partners”? There, the amount is an order of magnitude greater than that which appears in the Russian-Indian project.

All these Indian “chamomile fortune-telling” about whether they need a joint project with Russia or not, and whether they need F-35, are similar to India’s typical bargaining system. The goal of New Delhi is one: for a "one and a half rupee" investment get a newest fighter, "which has no analogues in the world," and even with the full transfer of production technology.

Comments

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.

[Dimmedroll]

The bottom line is that they use all this not so hot. I remember when the corvette crossed the way to the bulk carrier and was disabled. They accused Russia that the ship was too invisible on radars and tried to carry out repairs under warranty.

[LSA57]

Quote: PSACI

It will come in handy soon ..

this is a threat?

[PSACI]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: PSACI

It will come in handy soon ..

this is a threat?

No, of course, just advice .. Indians are not warriors, but Bollywood!

[Andrey K]

Quote: PSACI

... No, of course, just advice .. Indians are not warriors, but Bollywood! ...

In World War I, 1,5 million Indians fought for the British crown - the scrupulous Saxons “not a warrior” were not shy to use. Sikhs and Gurkhas directly participated in the fighting of the British army around the world, fighting along with soldiers from such dominions as Canada and Australia. In the Second World War, again under the English bayonet, 2 million volunteers stood up - this is the largest volunteer army in history.
There were also shoals behind the Indians - part of the armed formations fought on the side of Hitler (the Indian Legion of the Wehrmacht - the Legion "Free India") and Japan (the Indian National Army of Subhas Bos).
Do not be like your nickname - before blurt out, learn the materiel.

[Lex.]

Can the Indo-Chinese war remember who lost there?

[Andrey K]

Quote: Lex.

... Can the Indo-Chinese war remember who lost there? ...

You decided to teach me stories
You don’t have to go that far - the pro-Japanese Indian National Army of Subhas Bos, which was created from the captured Indians during the capture of Singapore by the Japanese, and surrendered in Singapore, not having fought for the Emperor Hirohito - by the way, who had the rank of British honorary general
There are lost wars. I was talking about the incorrectness of superficial estimates - there is no worse than underestimating someone, as well as overestimating

[DMB_95]

Quote: Andrey K

...... there is no worse than underestimating someone, as well as overestimating

To underestimate the Indians, of course, is not necessary. But why do they need 5th generation aircraft? They have 4 ++ for the eyes.

[Andrey K]

Quote: DMB_95

... Of course, one should not underestimate the Indians. But why do they need 5th generation aircraft? They have enough 4 ++ for the eyes ...

There is that "jealous" bride
China creates its fifth-generation aircraft, but the Indians did not roll a horse. That's hysterical attempts to come to everything ready and fuck everything at once

[kuznec]

I have been to India repeatedly. Yesterday from there. IMHO, this is just our different mentality: if you don't bargain in the bazaar in India, they will treat you with suspicion, and even they won't sell / buy anything at all. They just bargain!
On the other hand, we are largely the same: religious and national compatibility (in India there are more than 100 nationalities and ALL religions exist peacefully) and the same gouging, fools and roads.
Rus Hindi bhai bhai))

[user1212]

Quote: kuznec

there are more than 100 nationalities in India and ALL religions exist peacefully

Yeah, nowhere is more peaceful
2002 Gujarat massacre. They burned the Muslims alive. About 2000 dead
2008 Christian pogroms in Orissa. 60 dead, 25 thousand were left homeless. It began with the assassination of Swami Laksmananda Saraswati, local leader Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), a radical Hindu group. Saraswati actively opposed the conversion of the Hindus to Christianity. Hindu extremists did not believe the Maoists, who claimed responsibility for this murder, and accused the Christians of the crime. They also relieved themselves of all responsibility for the killing of Christians.
2013 In the Muzaffarnagar district of the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, 28 people were killed in clashes between opposing religious denominations. At least 50 injured have been reported.
2015. About 200 Hindu extremists broke into a Protestant prayer house in the city of Attingal. Pogroms began to beat parishioners, and also caused significant damage to church decoration

[Hottabych]

Quote: DMB_95

They have 4 ++ for the eyes.

No, they really want the 5th! )
And judging by the article and the latest events - they stupidly knock down the price ... These are Indians! )))

[Hammerlock]

better to overtake than not to finish

[Seaman77]

Quote: Andrey K

In World War I, 1,5 million Indians fought for the British crown - the scrupulous Saxons “not a warrior” were not shy to use. Sikhs and Gurkhas directly participated in the fighting of the British army around the world, fighting along with soldiers from such dominions as Canada and Australia. In the Second World War, again under the English bayonet, 2 million volunteers stood up - this is the largest volunteer army in history.

This is all because there was no Bollywood then

[Andrey K]

Quote: Seaman77

... This is all because there was no Bollywood at that time ...

Something I did not think

[Hammerlock]

but during the battle (after a successful shot) they sang and danced

[Slavs]

Well, a million fought them there, a million is here, and why ?? Does it define them as great warriors?

[Reklastik]

in the fighting of the British army around the world

and on the Russian-German front?

[Busan]

I can’t say for the Gurkhas, Nepal is a multiconfessional country, although most of them are really Indians, but Sikhs are Sikhs, and not Indians.

It first.
In World War I, the Anglo-Indian troops were manned by people of different faiths, and not by Indians alone. In fact, the Indians in the Anglo-Indian army were a minority, most were Muslims and Sikhs.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Busan

... Actually, the Indians in the Anglo-Indian army were a minority, most were Muslims and Sikhs ...

Everything is fine, with one exception - you have mixed nationality and religion. Sikhs (mainly Punjabis), Muslims (present-day Pakistan) and Gurkhas (present-day Nepal) are Hindus. They were divided according to minks after the Second World War.

[Busan]

It is easy to see that you confuse nationality, religion, citizenship, historical roots.

All the ethno-confessional groups listed to you are historical Indians, i.e. residents of historical India, but neither Sikhs, nor Muslims who live in Pakistan, who live in India, nor Ceylon Sinhalese are Indians, and all of them are Indians.
===============
Summing up - you call Indians Indians, which is obviously wrong.

By the way, as an example - the Tamils ​​of Ceylon, they are Indians, but they are not Indians, in the sense of non-Aryans.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Busan

... To summarize - you call Indians Indians, which is obviously wrong.
By the way, as an example - the Tamils ​​of Ceylon, they are Indians, but they are not Indians, in the sense of non-Aryans ...

Somewhere you are right - I use the term Hindu in one context. As indeed they are us.
Judging by the surname, you are either a representative of the Central Asian ethnic group, or from the middle Volga. I have a Russian surname - but I am only half that.
For the rest of the world, we are both Russian. Absolutely no one will understand our ethnic differences and especially religious

[Alex777]

You have chosen a very successful nickname. Comments are just like from herself!

[antivirus]

and will give birth soon?

[tun5t]

Gave birth already, check it yourself.

[edits]

Pakistan they kept no matter how! So they need to confront Pakistan and China.

[olgsei2017]

I remember they fought well on tanks.

[zivXP]

PSAKI (Laurel) Today, 13:23 PM ↑
Yes, let them buy what these Indians want to look at their army funny ..
You Russians take care of your weapons! It will come in handy soon ..

Hindus are such people. that today - no, and tomorrow - yes. They will bargain to the last for every penny, it's in their blood. Here you are not Russian, although not Indians, but another thing.

[Zefr]

A little strange, I remember that the Indians bent the Americans in training air battles on the fours. Very drowned for them here. Why is it so disparaging now, about them, they say here?

[Mih1974]

You have to be a rare moron in an open battle, face-to-face on KV-1 to shove Pyzy3 or even 2 The Hindus were given the KV-1 (su-30) and then they had to try hard to merge.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

... Oh, what I would like to see is the f-35 Indians ...

It is unlikely that we will be long and tedious to listen to the tramp of Indian dances
They with their want-do not want, lifted all the sellers
However, we have a chance - the Indians themselves at one time asked for "beloved wives," so they sit tight on the kukan. All these Wishlist are nothing more than a desire to bring down the price and get more. Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing
Hindus

[Ascetic]

Quote: Andrey K

Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing

It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... enough, the Indians are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October.

[Artek]

Quote: Ascetic

Quote: Andrey K

Give them FGFA - aircraft and technology, preferably for nothing

It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... enough, the Indians are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October.

in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

[Crowe]

By this, the author means

not the most modern fighter will appear. ”

I don’t know what to explain anymore.

[Voyager]

Who says 117 engines are not suitable for the 5th generation? Compare pancake with T34

[Artek]

Quote: Voyager

Who says 117 engines are not suitable for the 5th generation? Compare pancake with T34

what’s suitable, or what?

[Voyager]

Namely, this was repeatedly said. Su-57 on the engines of the first stage is quite capable of reaching supersonic sound without afterburner. Moreover, the engines of the second stage will not give an increase in thrust.

[Artek]

Quote: Voyager

Namely, this was repeatedly said. Su-57 on the engines of the first stage is quite capable of reaching supersonic sound without afterburner. Moreover, the engines of the second stage will not give an increase in thrust.

no need to drive, 117-15 tons, product 30-18 tons

[Voyager]

First, talk to me more politely.
The second one. There is no exact data on the product 30, there are only rumors with a draft of 16 to 18 tons, which is not a big difference with a draft of 117.
The third. This does not negate the ability to go to supersonic without afterburner at 117.

[Artek]

Quote: Voyager

First, talk to me more politely.
The second one. There is no exact data on the product 30, there are only rumors with a draft of 16 to 18 tons, which is not a big difference with a draft of 117.
The third. This does not negate the ability to go to supersonic without afterburner at 117.

it’s better not to talk to you at all, because there’s nothing to talk about.

[tun5t]

Che translated yourself know what

[figwam]

Yes, what is the dispute, the F-35 generally does not have supersonic without afterburner, but is called the fifth generation.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Artek

in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

Hindus can be understood with their gypsy mentality. Traded like a flea market.
But what is your interest? Are you afraid that many Su-57 technologies will not get through the Indians to our mattress “partners”? Fully equipped, they can only get direct allies who have confidence, for example, in Belarus.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Artek

my interest, what would you answer for the bazaar, and yours, what would you not answer? Say one thing, do another?

On the line of "responsible for the bazaar" the United States holds the lead - they do not care about the agreements, they are only used to the "concepts" like urks.
As for the "bazaars" of Russia, it seemed to me that treaties and agreements on the Su-57 had not yet been signed with the Indians.

[Artek]

Quote: Alex-a832

On the line of "responsible for the bazaar" the United States holds the lead - they do not care about the agreements, they are only used to the "concepts" like urks.

here it’s not necessary to become like pin_dosam — it’s not in the traditions of our people. The Ideans have already paid for the development of the 5th generation, so give me your word, hold on.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Artek

here it’s not necessary to become like pin_dosam — it’s not in the traditions of our people. The Ideans have already paid for the development of the 5th generation, so give me your word, hold on.

I don’t know what the Indians paid for, and the Indians paid what they will receive. We do not have and have not had the practice of violating such contracts. If they decide to interpret the contract ambiguously, then this is their problem.

[Artek]

Quote: Alex-a832

I don’t know what the Indians paid for, and the Indians paid what they will receive. We do not have and have not had the practice of violating such contracts. If they decide to interpret the contract ambiguously, then this is their problem.
Reply Quote Complaint

talk like that? do not know? Well, do not say.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Artek

my interest, what would be responsible for the bazaar,

At what point in the contract with India did you connect ????

[Artek]

Quote: Nikolai Grek

Quote: Artek

my interest, what would be responsible for the bazaar,

At what point in the contract with India did you connect ????

as soon as possible.

[Senior manager]

Quote: Alex-a832

who have confidence, for example, in Belarus.

To Belarus - yes, But But father is dumb.

[Max otto]

Quote: Alex-a832

... for example, to Belarus.

Likely you about history, how Old Man S-300 sold in the USA did not hear, right? So here you have to think

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Artek

it's like putting a t90 with engines from t34.

So, on the T-90 is the development of the engine from the T-34, which, in turn, is a modification of the engine from the BT-7.

[Filxnumx]

The "bats" were mainly MT-5, MT-17 (licensed M-5 Liberty and M-17, leading its genealogy from BMW), aircraft engines after major repairs with limited power to increase the resource. And on the T-34 (by the way, on the BT-7M too) they installed the V-2, a diesel version of the French Spanish-Suiza HS-12Y.

[Yngvar]

On the BTR-50 also set the V-2. Good engine!

[Yuriy_999]

"And on the T-34 (though on the BT-7M too) they installed the V-2, a diesel version of the French Spanish-Suise HS-12Y." Well you give. That is, if you fasten the fuel pump instead of the carburetor, do you get diesel? There were no engines AN-1, AD-1? Nothing that the M-100, which is the continuation of Spain, the cylinder head is made together with the shirt unit? “The use of some design solutions” does not mean that they are two identical engines.

[Susul]

Which in turn was intended for TB-3 =)

[Yuriy_999]

Specifically, B-2 was not intended for TB-3. It was created on the basis of aircraft diesel engines, using the experience of their development and with the help of design bureaus - yes.

[Slavs]

What are you saying? Can I give them all at once?

[Conserp]

Quote: Artek

in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

Dear friend, all engines of the AL-41F family are fifth-generation engines, starting from the one that flew at 1.44.

Even the engines currently being manufactured for the Su-27 in their specific characteristics meet the criteria of the fifth generation better than the raptor F119.

"Product 30" is 5+ generation

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

Even the engines currently being manufactured for the Su-27 in their specific characteristics meet the criteria of the fifth generation better than the raptor F119.

I look at the performance indicators of the overhaul life of the SU-27 and F35 engine and I directly believe.

[Korb]

And where does the "indicators of the overhaul life of the engine SU-27 and F35 engine SU-27 and F35" ???? We are talking about the characteristics of engines - specific thrust in relation to the weight of the aircraft. In the characteristics of engines of the 5th generation there is no such parameter "overhaul life"

[Conserp]

Quote: sabotage

I look at the performance indicators of the overhaul life of the SU-27 and F35 engine and I directly believe.

The hot part of the F135 engine is made of rhenium-ruthenium alloys and therefore this engine costs as much as 300 kg of pure gold.

It’s necessary not only to watch, but also to understand a little.

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

The hot part of the F135 engine is made of rhenium-ruthenium alloys and therefore this engine costs as much as 300 kg of pure gold.

And our engine is free))) And the techniques for their maintenance are also free and are supplied with the aircraft))) And the planes for replacing the boards that are under repair are also free))) For the time that one PW will go for repair, AL -31 after 5-8 repairs will be replaced with a new one.

Avaricious pays twice, stupid - three times, sucker always pays. Let the engine be at least platinum, if it is with excellent characteristics, a fantastic resource and simple maintenance - it’s the military thing (the real one).

[Conserp]

Everything is clear - a troll.

[Conserp]

Just in case, I’ll explain: the AL-31F M1 serial engines have an overhaul life of 1000 hours, work fine and are exported at $ 3.5 million each.

F135 costs $ 13 million, the last time its overhaul life was announced back in 2008, in advertising, as "2000 hours" (and the first production engine was released in 2010).
Since then, the numbers have disappeared even from advertising. Probably very fantastic turned out, which hints at the non-flying condition of half of the park.

[NN52]

Conserp

Ahead of me with the answer to the troll ...

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

Everything is clear - a troll.

Of course, a troll. I also receive a salary in the State Department.

Selling something for 3,5 million may be selling, and then it will be recapitalized through UEC or bad loans. Swam - we know.

[AFHENOGEN]

And noble!

[NN52]

sabotage

Do you know the engine resource on Fu 35? Do not tell me, pzhl? Or one blah blah blah? Only subject pzhl ///
I will answer you in detail why the Chinese are chasing our engines, and asking under the contract to board the Su 35 not two dvig spare, but four ...
Because the resource of our dvigla is 1 hours, with scheduled maintenance after 000 without rolling out ...
And they have a copy resource of more than 500 hours does not work ...
Now answer pzhl to my question.
Or are you really a troll ///

[Conserp]

Quote: NN52

Because the resource of our dvigla is 1 hours, with scheduled maintenance after 000 without rolling out ...

The assigned resource of the old AL-31F is 1500 hours.

Also, the methods for accounting for resource hours are different ... Americans do not consider it in real watches, but in "cycles", which are then converted into "equivalent hours" by chisel.

[NN52]

Conserp

Look pzhl my data ... No offense ... it's about 35C ...
I don’t know about amers ..

[NN52]

Do you also know about D 30F6?

[Mih1974]

Well then - let’s put 100 barrels of ever-green American presidents on a barrel.

[Grigory_78]

Quote: Artek

in general, it won’t work, if the fifth generation exterminator was promised, then it should be the fifth generation throughout, it’s like putting a T5 with engines from t5.

"promised the fifth generation fighter"? Nobody promised them anything. FGFA is a collaborative project. Joint, okay? And with regard to its development, the Indians did not hit finger on finger. An investment of 5 million bucks in the development of a 300th generation aircraft is tears. And if the Indians do not need it, then who is to blame? We have the development of the Su-5 in the first place, and rightly so.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Ascetic

... It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... here are the Indians and are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October ...

Stanislav, you have identified one of the artificial problems created by the Indians. Look at their participation in the FGFA project (joint project). There is such tyagomotin and redneck on the Indian side, that you are amazed - how arrogant enough to be capricious and generally demand something. Without really investing in the project - neither in the glider, nor in the engine - essentially speaking as the customer of the aircraft, the Indians demand technology transfer and begin to make complaints about the layout of the aircraft.
About the "transfer" of technology, generally a separate song. Even if, simply presumably, ours would agree to transfer technologies, there simply are no sites in India where these technologies could be applied. From the word not at all. The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years. At the same time, even the fact that they licensedly release and “mess around” periodically — they manage to make claims and make unflattering stuffs in the media, with a finger pointing towards Russia as a product developer.
Our partner is monetary, but very peculiar. Business is business - our merchants from the military-industrial complex have already learned the behavior patterns of Indian buyers and are just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances

[LSA57]

Quote: Andrey K

The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years.

It was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time.

[Andrey K]

Quote: LSA57

... it was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time ...

Sergey, everyone is trained. It would be a desire.
Desire is not observed, but there are more than enough ambitions.
Currently, in India, a new industrialization program called "Make in India" has been announced. It seems to be a normal, nationally-oriented program designed to develop Indian industry and increase domestic demand, at the expense of its goods.
Bottom line: the wildest companionship has begun, they pull everything under this program - from electronics to weapons. Partners are often required to transfer technologies that they cannot pull. What I wrote above.

[LSA57]

Quote: Andrey K

Sergey, everyone is trained. It would be a desire.

that's it, desire. you start something to show, to tell, zero interest. one topic for conversation, women.
invited our senior Indian to a restaurant. sat and rested. after that, the foreman invited the Indian to visit him. put on the table a 3 liter can of moonshine For three or four days the Indian did not appear at work. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage

[Andrey K]

Quote: LSA57

... for three or four days, the Indian did not appear at work. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage ...

Sergey, you see, and for them there is a science that they have been hammered into

[LSA57]

Quote: Andrey K

Sergey, you see, and for them there is a science that they have been hammered into

Yes, not only to them. we have a lot of internships

[twviewer]

To listen to you, it’s not in Russia that Su 30 years later than in India was adopted, I’m silent about the composition of avionics with Indian components, haven’t you heard about Bramos?

[Korb]

Listen to you - it’s in India that they developed the Su 30, made it, and transferred it to Russia along with technologies and our planes fly only avionics designed and manufactured in India even missile weapons for airplanes were developed and manufactured in India and ours fly only with Brahmos

What side is the development, manufacture, and sale and operation of combat aircraft (and not only aircraft) tied to adoption ??? for example, we flew the TU-160 in 1981. , but officially adopted by December 30, 2005 "- and what ??? does it make it worse, doesn’t fly ???? On the contrary, an order (and then a purchase, and even in such an amount) of a physically non-existent, not accepted into service in the country of development of the Su-30 combat aircraft (as well as for example the T-90 tank, etc.) speaks only about the highest reputation of Russia and the Su company (or Uralvagonzavod or other companies), when literally everyone knows that no matter what military equipment or weapons we make, it will be the best in the world (well, or at least not worse than the best world models)

[Mih1974]

A very “tenderloin” part that is very sensitive and trained by a person, through it always very well comes.

[dzvero]

Drink at your place in Russia (and here at home) ) can; to drink in India at 40 in the shadow of death is like. A third of the bottle and two days was like a rag ... then I did not drink more than two liters of beer at a time, and they strained.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: dzvero

to drink in India at 40 in the shadow of death is like.

In my youth, too, this was a fallacy. But after a summer trip to Tashkent, I was convinced that they drink there in any weather and everything, from light wine to pure alcohol. Sinful, personally checked how it works ..

[the most important]

Quote: LSA57

the foreman invited the Indian to visit him. put a 3 liter can of moonshine on the table for three, or the Indian did not appear at work for four days. then only at the word moonshine twisted it into a tourniquet and sausage

he didn’t master, he can see technology .... and also the 5th generation aircraft engine they want to learn how to do!

[LSA57]

Quote: the most important

He didn’t master, he can see the technology.

the hillock took pity on him, the beetroot did not set

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Andrey K

The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years.

It was in the 70s that I saw Indians at NLMK and saw their “technical culture”
difficult to learn. I don’t think that they have gone far from that time.

they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!!

[LSA57]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!!

acquaintances guys were there on a business trip and told such an incident. in the factory, the locomotive driver began to take back and accidentally crushed a cow. he didn’t even see her. when he was told, he hung himself right in the cab. ours were astounded. a translator from Indians explained to them that the driver is still not a tenant, he would have been killed anyway for this sacred animal

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: LSA57

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

they live in droves in droves ... what kind of "technical culture" are we talking about !!!!

acquaintances guys were there on a business trip and told such an incident. in the factory, the locomotive driver began to take back and accidentally crushed a cow. he didn’t even see her. when he was told, he hung himself right in the cab. ours were astounded. a translator from Indians explained to them that the driver is still not a tenant, he would have been killed anyway for this sacred animal

mentality + "killing" of a sacred animal !!! I don’t know why so surprised !! and finally ... it seems that our people sometimes sometimes wind up too bright ideas about other countries !!! even those who supposedly live super-duper curly-haired !!!

[LSA57]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

I don’t know why so surprised !!

Yes, they somehow could not understand how it was for a cow, even a sacred one, to kill a person.
and here is another case. my team leader was on a business trip to Iran. decided to chat with local hard workers. you say heard, on shi in space again flew? the translator was well next to him, grabbed his hand and fled from the local hard workers. it turns out they have the word space it translates as wet ... the female genital organ (I apologize to the admins, but this is not for the mat, but for the completeness of the story) and they could just beat him up for such an insorption. by the way the word brick in their language is also a swear word

[Yuriy_999]

And I saw their engineers in 2011. And they are well-rated.

[sanja.grw]

and just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances yes

I remembered a joke - A guy with a girl is walking, she asks him if he likes Indian films. He politely says yes. Then she starts telling one film. 2 hours pass. She - now I will tell the second series, He is good, but not sing and do not dance.

[LSA57]

Quote: sanja.grw

He is good, just don’t sing or dance.

there was a time, I don’t know how it is now, in poor Indian villages people dumped themselves and sent one person to the city to watch a movie. when he arrived, he began to tell a film with songs and dances

[Ustin Umarov]

Is it right that they immediately show them as a submarine or even sell them at all?
Some unreliable!

[Conserp]

Quote: Ascetic

It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ..

There is no “engine from the 35th” on this plane. For 7 years they could learn.

There are other engines, and also - the real fifth generation.

"Product 30" is 5+ generation

[Ascetic]

Quote: Conserp

There is no “engine from the 35th” on this plane. For 7 years they could learn.
There are other engines, and also - the real fifth generation.
"Product 30" is 5+ generation

In Indian product 117 first stage engine
product 30 ("engine of the second stage") it is not known whether he passed flight tests and is accepted for pre-production models of the SU-57. The Indians are even more so about them as I was before Bombay
But "product 127" и "product 129"-engines of the third stage, information is extremely scarce

[Conserp]

Quote: Ascetic

In Hindu stands product 117 first stage engine

The bottom line is that the 117 is the fifth generation engine.

The fact that an even more advanced promising engine is already being developed is not at all a reason to vilify it and declare it "inferior," as mattress propagandons and lamers following them do. Quite the opposite - the Raptor is left with a 16-year-old engine and no one is even developing a replacement.

Quote: Ascetic

Well, "product 127" and "product 129"

As far as I remember, there are no such engines - these are the names of the components.

[yehat]

for already 3 years, Indians have been trying to force the Russian Federation to transfer fully the PAK FA technologies, including the 2nd generation engine and create production in India, while making the contract price lower than with the French, which the Indians refused.
All trade and groans about the high cost and modernity revolves around this.

[ver_]

... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour ..?

[Andrey K]

Quote: ver_

... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour ..? ...

Nothing strange
It is necessary to ask the Sumerians, they will definitely say and they will find a rationale for this. They ancestored the ancient Egyptians

[Piramidon]

Hindus with gypsies are relatives. And those, too, bargain and fool the expert.

[LSA57]

Quote: ver_

... strange .. Indians and descendants of ancient ukrov are not relatives for an hour.

Well, if you already steal a trump relative ...

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Andrey K

However, we have a chance - the Indians themselves at one time asked for “beloved wives”, so they sit tight on the cook.

They are sitting only on an American cook. While we work with top executives, mattresses are bought second and third, from the Ministry of Defense to “experts”, who issue the “necessary” expert opinions for bribes. The graters of Russia and the USA in the Indian arms market have been going on for several years, because it is very voluminous and those who enter it will be provided with orders for decades. But what’s interesting is that the Indians want to exchange partnership with Russia for dependence on the USA, which is very short-sighted. They don’t want their plane, let them fly on elephants, they only teach them to wave their ears.

[Herculesic]

On the asses of the elephants they will write f35, and they will even fly on them, provided that the elephants can wave their ears at supersonic speed for takeoff and flight.

[Shahno]

"The latest F-35 Adir aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

At the same time, the IDF Air Force Command emphasizes that the use of F-35 for combat missions significantly increases the operational capabilities of Israeli military aircraft.

Earlier, foreign media reported that the F-35 Adir may have participated in one or more operations in Syria. However, there were no official comments on this subject. "

It was not necessary to drive 57 to Syria, we would still wait with official statements.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: Shahno

The latest F-35 “Adir” aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

And, remember, remember ... Somewhere beyond the Golan Heights ...

The F-35 fighter recently entered service with the Israeli Air Force was damaged after a collision with two birds,

https://topwar.ru/127621-izrailskiy-f-35-poluchil
-povrezhdeniya-posle-stolknoveniya-s-pticami.html

[Shahno]

Yes, the story with storks cheered up. So really people think we set up the base so quickly, they dragged the drugs. And the same message from March 15, the old storks flew away. But yesterday I saw new ones, as always on the sheep come off ...

[maiman61]

Is this the one whose engine got the bird? Do you think that there are fools who believed?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: maiman61

Is this the one whose engine got the bird? Do you think that there are fools who believed?

In the engine?

[dzvero]

He trimmed the skin. We must once again look at the photo and find out who did not give in to the interference on the right

[Lex.]

The latest F-35 “Adir” aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

The bird didn’t get into it.
What then decided to purchase further f-15 and not iron

[Simargl]

Quote: Herkulesich

On the asses of elephants write f35

T-14, rather ... or Abrams ...

[Yngvar]

Most likely they will write "Wimana"!

[XXXIII]

Quote: Artek

forum users, but do not tell me why the names appeared near the nicknames of local, what kind of arbitrariness?

We were opened, dumping ....

[the most important]

Quote: Artek

forum users, but do not tell me why the names appeared near the nicknames of local, what kind of arbitrariness?

And you do as I do - subscribe with a real name !!!

[Kent0001]

He will take off their last pants from them, although the Indians do not really wear them. All the rags in the rags are wound up.
SU-57 is already better than Amer’s non-flying crafts, and work continues. Politics, squeezing us everywhere with amers ..... and in many ways successfully ... unfortunately.

[alexmach]

Let's start with another, but did anyone offer them the F-35 at all? And maybe they’ll also sell production technologies to them?

[Shahno]

Not officially. What is changing?

[alexmach]

What changes what? What is not officially offered?
Or the fact that they will not see any technology with the F-35 as their own ears?

[antivirus]

Do they need an F-35, similar to the typical bargaining system in India. New Delhi has one goal: for "one and a half rupees" of investments to get the latest fighter, "which has no analogues in the world", and even with the complete transfer of production technologies.

Indians have time to get accustomed - before the 5th generation in China. they can’t fight with the Russian Federation and the USA

[Squelcher]

You shouldn’t be so, the Indians are not stupid mathematicians, programmers, and techies are very intelligent. One moment that a large population and a lot of uneducated plus caste systems. India was a Colony of Britain and its development stopped, this is an example to the liberals who argue that the West cares about the development of others peoples, actually quite a turn.

[sergeyezhov]

Quote: Squelcher

You shouldn’t be so, the Indians are not stupid mathematicians, programmers, and techies are very intelligent. One moment that a large population and a lot of uneducated plus caste systems. India was a Colony of Britain and its development stopped, this is an example to the liberals who argue that the West cares about the development of others peoples, actually quite a turn.

100%

[voyaka uh]

India is developing very quickly and successfully. It is for the reason that it was an English colony: state. English and a democratic form of government.

[Conserp]

Quote: Squelcher

India was a colony of Britain and its development stopped

The development of India stopped a thousand years before, like China. Actually, that's why the British bent them.

The brutal occupation gave them a life-giving kick for understanding the simple truth - you will not develop, they will devour.

So they are trying. The British sucked out all the juices from India, but at the same time created India as a single state and a single nation, and taught a lot. Dialectics-s.

[Arakius]

The official language of India is English, and there is another country nearby - Afghanistan. Two hundred years ago, it was on the same level of development with India, now, one must think, Afghanistan is much more developed, because he was an English colony

[Awaz]

these Indians, incidentally, quite successfully at Sushki chase the experienced and fought “AS” s of the USA in training battles ..

[faridg7]

Quote: AwaZ

these Indians, incidentally, quite successfully at Sushki chase the experienced and fought “AS” s of the USA in training battles ..

But they are not traded, the military will not go down to bidding, the caste is not the same.

[Maz]

They already Zadovbali, these fastidious Indians. Let them cut out from bamboo and fly from the Pamirs on gliders. The hunks are bad. They want to eat fish and not soak their feet.

[sgazeev]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.

Clintonsha broke her hand while masturbating in an Indian hotel and decided to pity Russia before pleading her sins before the stripes. The weakest link in the BRICS, India. Small-shaven ruined this people forever.

[73bor]

I was always interested to know the HIGH requirements of the Indian Air Force! Like the most belligerent Air Force, no, the most advanced specialists, too, no, it's just the flying BARGES that's all!

[Nikolay Fedorov]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

Oh, what I would like to see is the Indians on f-35.

Why are you so disliked by the Indians ?! What did they do that ?!

[Russia]

Again they didn’t share technologies, they take on weak

[Terenin]

This is always the case in the market.

[Russia]

That's for sure, the main thing is honest and noble.

[Dreamboat]

The dependence on the Hindus was very large in the 90s, now we must first think about our VKS.
And let the Indians vyzhivatsya and work off bribes from the Americans ... while China re-equip its Air Force.

[Kent0001]

Let Lockheed Martin share with them ... for free!

[antivirus]

antivirus 6 Yesterday, 20:35 | How Manstein saved the German army from the Caucasian "cauldron"
about professionals--
1.-10 years before the war, it is necessary to build mines, mines, met-combines
2.- 15 years before the war, it is necessary to release teachers with diplomas and other "bespectacles". to learn how to build and operate according to paragraph 1.
3. And in parallel with the teachers, it is necessary, for 15 liters before the war, to release engineers (logarithms + liquidus + solidus = material science).
4. -for 10 liters before the war from p3. must learn to work in clause 1. and clause 2.
5.-in parallel with n 1-4 should be issued in military schools ml lieutenants -units and equipment for aviation.
WITHOUT NUMBER - WITH THE HORSE, IT IS NECESSARY TO TRANSFER THE HUGE COUNTRY ON THE ICE. -DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THE MOTOR ROWS.
further, everyone knows that they did not create EBN and GDP now and personally they could do it INSTEAD of the presidents.
There was enough air superiority for the surroundings-- and there wasn’t
materials science and logarithms were not known to many who should know
see the number of million pieces of brick and cement (85 years ago, manual labor) for ped schools in n2
A complaint

[shvn]

I didn’t understand a damn thing, but very interesting))

[Nikolay Fedorov]

Quote: shvn

I didn’t understand a damn thing, but very interesting))

Yes, he himself didn’t understand what he wrote. There are many thoughts, and they all jump, often in different directions ...

[antivirus]

one thought - you have to go to the brick factory to work, who does not know where the academics come from
In "Moscow does not believe in tears," it is clearly said about Gogu - "50% of the dissertation was done with his hands"

THE BASIS OF MY "BRILLIANT THOUGHT" AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL DRAWING OF THE COUNTRY INTO THE FUTURE IS THE SUSTAINABLE MOVEMENT OF ALL COMMUNITY (SOCIETY?), AND NOT UNITS-GENIUS

[Nikolay Fedorov]

Quote: antivirus

one thought - you have to go to the brick factory to work, who does not know where the academics come from
In "Moscow does not believe in tears," it is clearly said about Gogu - "50% of the dissertation was done with his hands"

THE BASIS OF MY "BRILLIANT THOUGHT" AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL DRAWING OF THE COUNTRY INTO THE FUTURE IS THE SUSTAINABLE MOVEMENT OF ALL COMMUNITY (SOCIETY?), AND NOT UNITS-GENIUS

I had previously suspected that you were for everything good, against everything bad.

[antivirus]

I am glad for your happiness.
together - we are force.

[Evil 55]

Again Khitrondusy knock down the price .. This is already when working with them naturally and expectedly ..

[Separ]

Something the Indians became picky in arms - fight on elephants in this case ...

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: Separ

fight on elephants in that case ...

Local flavor however. Commander T-90 in India.

[Falcond]

Actually, not only when it's hot, but also when the commander does not fit into the tank;)))

[chingachguc]

where's the whip? It’s necessary to drive a tank!

[Separ]

And if the tank goes wild

[maiman61]

Refuse, refuse! When the Chinese will press, then with yells and snot will you ask Russia to sell the planes, and then what for we need beggars?

[Vard]

And to offer Pakistan ... They are not as harmful as India ...

[Ascetic]

Quote: Vard

suggest to Pakistan ... They are not as harmful as India ...

It’s the same as giving China for free.

[Lex.]

Su35 was sold, engines cannot be copied as Khadarenok said

[donavi49]

Pakistan has a compact Air Force development program. For the next 10 years, only JF-17 in the form of MFIs. The 2 block and the double B based on the 2 block are already in the series. The 3 Block is coming with a bunch of improvements and a new Chinese AFAR.


In the future, it is logical that they will choose one of the models of the Chinese 5 generation and will assemble it at their Chinese factory - where they are now assembling the JF-17.

[voyaka uh]

Right. Pakistan 5th generation will be guaranteed. China will soon begin to intensively sell its semi-clone F-35 to its allies. And the Indians were stuck at a crossroads.
It’s not possible to create one, with Russia, it didn’t work (and it’s late anyway). Buying the F-35 is also not handy: you need to buy a bunch of weapons for its internal compartments. In addition, the F-35 is a long line, while the Indians sign up, deliveries will begin in 7 years no earlier.

[Conserp]

Quote: donavi49

In the future - it’s logical that they will choose one of the models of the Chinese 5th generation

In the distant future, when China will have the 5th generation.

[voyaka uh]

Have they not already formed the first squadron? Recently it was in print.

[Conserp]

China has not yet been able to fully master the 4th generation aerodynamics - they make exact large-scale copies of air intakes from the MiG-23 on planes, etc .; the Chinese still have not been able to copy the base AL-31F; Evda mastered the programming of EMDS - quite recently, instead of software balancing, ballast loads were shoved into the Su-27 clones.

Instead of real-world designing, component-wise copying is often done a la cargo cult. Not enough sophisticated technologies and materials science.

And with avionics they have - not so hot. The fact that they supposedly have AFAR does not mean anything. AFAR can make a student in the garage. The main thing is not apharism, the main thing - with an aphorism, the power and noise level for it to work - and preferably better than a conventional radar. China, obviously not from a good life, continues to buy obsolete radars from us.

So where does China come from the 5th generation? It’s not enough to paint the plane gray.

China over the past 20 years has run a distance of 40 years, it deserves respect. But he lagged behind all 70.

[voyaka uh]

These problems are solvable. Hired for big salaries and bonuses
good aviation engineers from leading corporations, and competent
design is getting better. Moreover, quickly.

[Conserp]

You are mistaken - even Americans do not succeed in throwing any problems with a bunch of dough. And they have been doing this for 20 years now, the results are obvious.

[voyaka uh]

China will follow the path of Japan of the 70s and South Korea of ​​the 90s.
Both countries quickly learned how to design and advanced
in first place in the world in high technology.
China is the third in the Far East and with immeasurably large financial resources.
You, it seemed to me from your posts, have an overestimated opinion about a good Russian scientific and engineering school (born in the 30s and 40s from American and German) and understated about everyone else.

[Conserp]

I draw conclusions solely on the specific results of their activities.

Large financial resources and the ability to steal or buy someone else’s finished goods are corrupting instead of developing.

The degradation of the American military aircraft industry and the lag in the Chinese, with some knowledge, are quite obvious both in general and in particular.

[Herculesic]

In my opinion, the Indians just need to be sent, and as far as possible. Announce the closure of the joint project with them. Tired of your arrogance, let the penguins buy!

[seos]

Offer China the joint development of a 5th generation light fighter ... Hindus will immediately become goodies ...

[donavi49]

China has two programs - it will refuse. Rather, only technical cooperation or single procurement for a look-compare

[Incvizitor]

China does not need airplanes, it seems, but a good filling for them, so new engines would be torn off with their hands

[donavi49]

Well, in electronics they have their own shaft. According to AFAR, they have the largest module production plant in the world.
Engines yes.
Glider, weight and other% of used volume - they most likely worked closely with domestic design bureaus and institutes in the framework of consultations and limited volumes of work on outsourcing.
The armament is debatable, they have a lot of secrets, a lot of draws. But if you look at export from medium-long range, their BB missiles are not impressive.

[Shahno]

Everything seems to be there, but there is no result. Common situation...

[lance]

and what will they do with the new engines if they can’t repeat al41f, will they sell the United States?

[In h]

But technology would not be necessary ...

[groks]

Everything in the last paragraph. If this were not just bargaining, but the final position, then conclusions could be drawn from this about the concept of the Indian Armed Forces. And so ... an occasion for local cheers patriots to jump.

[Bumbarash]

This is normal. There is no need to expect anything else from them. They want everything at once. Is free. Such friends ..... and the museum.

[KVU-NSVD]

Right now, groups in the Indian Ministry of Defense are determined by lobbying opportunities, cut off all coupons from applicants, bargain to the seller’s gray hair, and quickly decide True, history shows that all this lasts for years ... We must calmly wait for them to ripen and buy from us, what for them space costs ... though. They can choose, however, a truly "wise" option - to buy both little by little For us, the main thing is that with the help of our joint program we have largely put our 57th wing on the wing ...

[Dormidont]

In the east it is customary to bargain

[Hurricane70]

But what, as you know, there are two fools at the bazaar ... In general, it seems to me that the point is not the price and the country of manufacture, but the process itself! Well, the Indians really like this process ... Not a trading process, no. The process of being able to bargain! Here we are, yesterday we were a colony, but today we wrinkle our nose, choose ... and from whom? The super-duper powers that looked down on us yesterday!
Something like this!
And more ... If they fly, as well as marching at a parade, then maybe hell them? That is a sight ... May the Circus and the peacock-mawlins forgive me!

[sir_obs]

Is it our dear compared to the US? it is no longer the Kama Sutra, it is a banal perversion.

[voyaka uh]

This is reality. The usual Su-30 is about 1/3 of the American, and the Su-57 is about 2/3 of the American. But a new 2-seater indian is still needed R&D. It turns out more expensive than the finished F-35

[Conserp]

The "ready" F-35 has not yet been allowed even to state tests, and half of the fleet of almost three hundred prototypes (!) Is stable in non-flying condition.

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

"Ready" F-35 is still not even allowed to state tests

It would be strange if they sent their F35 to us for state testing))) They didn’t have any combat tests. And they do not have the procedure of state tests.

[Conserp]

Quote: sabotage

they do not have state test procedures.

There is a state testing procedure in the United States, in their bourgeois language it is called OT&E.

Are you trying to troll like that or have you simply decided to show off with a powerful intellect?

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

Are you trying to troll like that or have you simply decided to show off with a powerful intellect?

Of course troll))) What else to do with you !!!

If the device is in combat parts, then the tests have passed. There are flaws, the manufacturer will eliminate.

[Conserp]

Quote: sabotage

If the unit is in combat parts

This is called trial operation.

Quote: sabotage

then the tests have passed.

And in the report for January 2018 it is written that he did not pass the tests and could not pass: he cannot even be admitted to them by the sum of structural defects.

But do not be shy, write more, show the contents of your head. So I don’t even have to mock you.

[sabotage]

Quote: Conserp

But do not be shy, write more, show the contents of your head. So I don’t even have to mock you.

I can do everything for you.

Quote: Conserp

by the sum of structural defects, he cannot even be admitted to them.

I would like for our technology to consider this a structural defect. What to take from savages: instead of hastily handing over new equipment by the reporting date, they finish it in the work process. And problems, when they arise, do not hide.

[Conserp]

To justify corruption and design impotence is a thankless task. But you go on, go on.

[voyaka uh]

"They except that there were no combat tests." ////

We already had it. F-35s participated in raids on Syria on February 10.
There are no complaints of insufficient combat readiness.

[Andrey K]

Quote: voyaka uh

... we already had. F-35s participated in raids on Syria on February 10.
There are no complaints of insufficient combat readiness ...

Alexey
The participation of your F-35s in raids on Syria was so secretly invisibly successful that nowhere except your new homeland is heard

[voyaka uh]

This is good. It should be so.

[Andrey K]

Quote: voyaka uh

... This is good. It should be so. ...

You know, I agree, without irony.
Less dust, more work

[sabotage]

Quote: Andrey K

The participation of your F-35s in raids on Syria was so secretly invisibly successful that nowhere except your new homeland is heard

The existence of Syria is so invisible that no one has any idea who bombed anyone or where.

[NN52]

voyaka uh

For prices I agree with you ..
And for 2-seater too, it’s actually a new airplane ... and there isn’t even R&D for it, the Indians paid only $ 295 mil, as if for a 2-seater design and that's all ///
And why do we need this?
Although they voiced their Wishlist on 127 sides ...
And there you need about $ 25 billion ... for everything ...

[Azazelo]

Wow, how does it overwhelm that the technology did not work from Russia. )))

[shadow]

And with mathematics, the Indians are bad

[keeper03]

Hindus do not get it or something, now it’s not the 90s, when we could twist our hands! Now we want to twist someone we want, but don’t want with us, so buy American wunderwaffles at space prices !!!

[Shahno]

Are you behind the times? Not space but quite comparable.

[APASUS]

Quote: Shahno

Are you behind the times? Not space but quite comparable.

What are they comparable with?
The cost of the latest F-15 modification: $ 29 million ... and the cost of the F-35: $ 100 mil, and only from 2019 promise a reduction to $ 85 mil
So I don’t really want to compare, given the tried and tested F-15 system, which has no stocks and like the F-35 super plane, which constantly does not go off the TV screens with its problems.

[Shahno]

Well? You want you to stop at the hornet. Never...

[APASUS]

Quote: Shahno

Well? You want you to stop at the hornet. Never

I want to say that the F-35 for Lockheed Martin provides super profit, and whether or not to buy you is not mine. Everyone deceives himself as he wants

[Shahno]

Well, put forward your project for 50 million dollars, Russia ahead.

[voyaka uh]

"The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

If! Silent Eagle Boeing Israel offered 10 million years ago for 100 million (instead of the F-35)

[APASUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

"The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

Now, let's do it in great detail so as not to be known as a talker ..................... I wanted to know the sources, etc.
What does not suit you?

[APASUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

"The cost of the latest modification of the F-15: $ 29 million." ////

I can’t talk and write at the same time on the site, I wrote nonsense.

[Conserp]

Quote: APASUS

The cost of the latest F-15 modification: $ 29 million.

In 2001, the F-15E was purchased by the US Air Force for $ 76 million ($ 107 million in terms of 2018)

[askort154]

Trading with Indians is tantamount to talking with a gypsy fortune teller in the market.

[HMR333]

there’s nothing to discuss! some kind of washerwoman from an unnamed source decided that he was an expert and this stuff was given out by journalists! let a specific serious expert issue and not a journalistic bullshit about an unknown expert, they must have dashed themselves for more hype and for viewing readers!

[Graz]

I doubt that the US will be sold to Indians f35 even if they want to buy it

[Shahno]

Without technology, it’s enough to bring down the price ..

[XXXIII]

Quote: Shahno

Without technology, it’s enough to bring down the price ..

Yes, let them sell, only for, we’ll cut together with the F-35 Indians so that they can put what they want on their 5th generation aircraft. And for one glance, what good is there .....

[Shahno]

Well, no question. We will have more work. You look and Russia will pay specialists. And it’s completely boring. Or decide for five years, it’s better from scratch ...

[Servisinzhener]

This will not suit them. They want to eat a fish and a "drink aquarium." Yes, and cheaper.

[Anchonsha]

And huh hu not ho ho Indians? Yes, then find other partners and do not fool us. Well then take F 22, and even better F35 and you will immediately upgrade them.

[Lock36]

A more corrupt state with more corrupt officials cannot be found in the whole world.
It is through this prism that we must look at all their "statements."

[BARKHAN]

Quote: Grandfather Makhno

I hate Indians (gypsies)

You simply cannot make out the riddle in them ...

[Evgeniy667b]

A woman with a cart, the mare is easier !!! Let these stupid Indians go on foot erotic journey. Russia has nothing more to do but strengthen their defenses and fill our bureaucrats pockets. First of all, you need to resolve your issues !!!

[myrzilka]

Refuse the fifth generation joint project? To propose it to be developed jointly with Pakistan, I think the packs will agree with pleasure. And then see the reaction, to this, of the adherents of the Kama Sutra))))

[KERMET]

Hindus forcibly stuffed no one into friends, I personally like the approach of the Hindus, that’s exactly how we need to achieve the most favorable conditions for contracts for our state, there is something to learn

[konstantin68]

Quote: Andrey K

Quote: Ascetic

... It's all about the engine, we don’t want to put a new dvigun from the SU-57, enough for them from the 35th ... here are the Indians and are unhappy. This, in principle, is not news, lasting at least since last October ...

Stanislav, you have identified one of the artificial problems created by the Indians. Look at their participation in the FGFA project (joint project). There is such tyagomotin and redneck on the Indian side, that you are amazed - how arrogant enough to be capricious and generally demand something. Without really investing in the project - neither in the glider, nor in the engine - essentially speaking as the customer of the aircraft, the Indians demand technology transfer and begin to make complaints about the layout of the aircraft.
About the "transfer" of technology, generally a separate song. Even if, simply presumably, ours would agree to transfer technologies, there simply are no sites in India where these technologies could be applied. From the word not at all. The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China of 60-70 years. At the same time, even the fact that they licensedly release and “mess around” periodically — they manage to make claims and make unflattering stuffs in the media, with a finger pointing towards Russia as a product developer.
Our partner is monetary, but very peculiar. Business is business - our merchants from the military-industrial complex have already learned the behavior patterns of Indian buyers and are just waiting for the end of colorful Indian dances

More precisely, you will not say!

[New Year day]

just the Indians are knocking down the price. The same maneuver was with frigate purchases.

[Mountain shooter]

Oh ho! Is it expensive for them? Yes, then let the F-35 buy, and defend on it. I would cut the auction system in place of ours. How to "mess up" - the price increases by 10%. And so every time, only 10% of the already increased price ... Sober up at once ...

[Hanokem]

Mountain shooter, because you are so principled - you are an employee and work for a salary

[Falcond]

A strange comparison .. Americans themselves stopped the release of the F-22 because of their high cost! It is also interesting who and how compared the effectiveness of serial phantoms and experimental dryers yet .. here it is necessary to understand in more detail!
Well, let's say that the F-35 wins in some ways (in what - let the experts argue) ... but taking into account the preparation of ground-based infrastructure, the purchase of refueling systems, etc. .... multiplied by a hypothetical possibility, that in one a wonderful moment these planes will not take off, being disconnected from the button overseas (there are precedents) ... then their acquisition is in itself a dubious enterprise ....
My opinion does not pretend to be the ultimate truth!

[Terenin]

Refutation of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation: our airships did not fly over India, and other local air defense aircraft could not be detected.

[K-50]

The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22

In addition to the phenomenal (unconfirmed by anything) invisibility, the SU-57 is completely surpassed by the Penguin and the Lizard. So to say that "drying" is inferior, to put it mildly, bullshit.
Especially:

India “not interested in implementing too expensive a program

nothing happens for nothing. Nudians (boring painfully ) But you need all the technology, drawings and all for free.

[bald]

Damn, taught to count money - found with what to compare. And give them the technology of the 5th generation - they’ve specifically become overgrown.

[Servisinzhener]

Or maybe in this case, to offer joint development of a new fighter to Pakistan?

[Firework]

Quote: Andrey K

The technical culture of the Indians at the level of ..., at the level of China 60-70 years

you flatter the Hindus, they have a peculiar production culture inherent only to them, you cannot even call this the European Middle Ages

[Machete]

These are worse than the Sumerians freeloaders.
For a rupee, they also want a 5th generation aircraft and technology. and fast.
And the fact that this should take years and in developed countries it costs fabulously expensive does not bother them.

[arsen69]

What is there to be surprised at - a normal oriental bazaar. The logic of communication here is simple - well, if everything is so expensive for you, then do it yourself, and if you can not - sit without a 5th generation fighter. China, by the way, already has it, Pakistan also does not lose time, it solves the issue. Wait for everyone around him to have it, except you.

[Dzafdet]

It's time to send the Indians on foot erotic campaign! and away!

[Wedmak]

Apparently you have to get vimanas out of the garages.

[Dzafdet]

Quote: Shahno

"The latest F-35 Adir aircraft took part in the first combat operation, the Walla portal reports citing army sources. Details of this operation were not disclosed.

At the same time, the IDF Air Force Command emphasizes that the use of F-35 for combat missions significantly increases the operational capabilities of Israeli military aircraft.

Earlier, foreign media reported that the F-35 Adir may have participated in one or more operations in Syria. However, there were no official comments on this subject. "

It was not necessary to drive 57 to Syria, we would still wait with official statements.

Yes, they shot him down a long time ago, so now, make a mine with a bad game!

[chingachguc]

"The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22."

This phrase reveals the complete incompetence of the author of the article.

[Shahno]

Dear, procedurally really playing around. Technically, if you throw hats, you’ll definitely lose.

[iouris]

Quote: Shahno

really plays

Probably losing, but there is no other Su-57 yet.

[chingachguc]

Well, firstly, neither you nor I know about all the technical nuances of the F-35, and even more so the Su-57. And what kind of FGAF beast is not known to anyone at all. This is the first. And secondly, the author of the article is simply not aware that the F-22 is better than the F-35, which reveals its incompetence. Although, maybe the translator tried here.

[Sands Careers General]

Dear, procedurally really playing around.

And you, dear, yourself really compared? If not, then it's tryndezh on your part.

[Shahno]

While there is no Ishur on my part. I wrote you my opinion.

[Sands Careers General]

Whom? I nicht anestend your Jewish words. Speak Russian on the Russian website.

[Shahno]

No confirmation ....

[Conserp]

Quote: chingachguc

"The plane loses in many ways not only to the F-35, but also to the F-22."
This phrase reveals the complete incompetence of the author of the article.

No, this is an order. Streams of this good from a very specific list of Indian publications have been flowing regularly for 10 years.

[silverwolf88]

And I’ll add to the above ... too many Indians have unlearned in the West and in the USA ... and in fact they are the best promoters of the ideas of a pro-Western orientation ... all the last tenders are oriented to the EU and the USA (except for contracts with a five-year history) ... not in bargaining ... but in changing the orientation vector of politicians ...

[iouris]

"Very expensive" is a good reason.

[Shahno]

No, 85 million per item. Voice the prices of competitors who can provide a combat-ready squadron. Forward...

[iouris]

Quote: Shahno

Sound the prices of competitors

It is clearly said: there is no money. This does not mean that competitors' proposals are being considered. India goes its own way and you can’t forbid it.

[anjey]

Do you think that I’m afraid for your F-35 squadrons, they’ll just be stolen by Fs too! such grandmothers Rabinovich will drink for a week in Miami ... 85 lemons on a dish - a kosher nightmare ... and that’s it !!!

[Fitter65]

All these Indian chamomile fortune telling about whether they need a joint project with Russia or not, and whether they need an F-35, are similar to the typical bargaining system in India.

They were slightly late with the bargaining system. China, which has some friction with India, but which supplies Pakistan with its weapons and other military assistance, has so-so-very large frictions with India, so this China is buying the Su-35 from Russia and the S-400, well, we need India, so that China does not completely borzel. The policy is her mother. The larch woodpecker is looking for a leaf.

[JD1979]

"Wimans" to help them, let them recall how to build according to their ancient treatises. Gourmets twist their noses, the market is big, let them search.

[flicker]

No way the Indians can decide how to lie: roofing felts along, roofing felts across?

[Comrade Kim]

Hindus behave like experienced market traders, the product suits them in all respects, but without merchants. But how is all this predictable and familiar, not a single purchase of our weapons by the Indians has not done without this scheme: Your goods are bad, we will buy from amers, if you do not reduce the price.

[lance]

It was explained to the Indians that they would receive for their money, first of all, a dvigun from c35s, who makes Chinese invisibility and a penguin on his head. if you take a clean lizard without avax, then this is either an equal in skillful hands, or superiority in the neighbor. India has no avax. therefore, they are still interested in the modified radar Pak fa, but reluctantly pay extra, but I also want to reduce the price. probably hope to finalize electronics Israel?

[unignm]

well, boobs bruise hi take fu35

[anjey]

India, as in a parable and from the bridge, I will not go down and I will not free the way

wisdom and intelligence are maneuvering all interests in our troubled world ... take Russia as an ally - you won’t lose !!!!! The West - it sucks and fascist revenge - it will not pass !!!!

[Warrior-80]

It’s just that the Yankees paid an Indian journalist to throw it into the fan, they haven’t spent the money anywhere and no one will return it to them and the project is almost ready, they’re just bargaining to give them more technology

[Sands Careers General]

Hindus bargain and dance a ritual dance. If they don’t want to, put a banana on their collar, let them buy the Fu-35, which they don’t like either.
They try to bargain like Jews, but they do it funny.

[Yarik]

Yes, centuries will not erase the genetic memory of vimanas.

[Step]

Yes, this is their way of cutting down the price! I had a similar story: I was returning home for good from Ireland. According to the advertisement, a buyer for the car was found - an Indian. I've been bargaining for a long time, but I already have only a few days left. In the end, we made a deal, he asked for a week to collect money, but I took a deposit from him. How I looked into the water! On the appointed day, he came to pick up the car and began to tell me that this was not at all the car he had dreamed of and therefore it could not cost the agreed amount. And it’s 1000 euros less hassle for me. They agreed that I was a fraudster and was squeezing the juice out of hard-working foreigners (stop! Who am I there?). In the end, I sent it to the Irish member, and kept the deposit for myself. I reduced the price by the amount of the deposit and found an adequate buyer on the same day.

Why am I telling this? Maybe it's time to send them???

[reibert]

They're knocking down the price, bastards))))

[Filxnumx]

Yes, the Indians themselves don’t really know why they need a 5th generation aircraft, they haven’t learned how to operate the 3rd generation properly either. In general, the term “technically competent operation of aviation equipment” is poorly familiar to them. In this respect, Hindus are no different from Arabs, as well as in their desire to bargain. They are not interested in the subject of bargaining itself, only in the “process”. The article points this out absolutely correctly.

[dm-itry]

"The Su-57 is very expensive and is inferior to the F-22 and F-35." Thank you, I laughed heartily! :))) But it’s okay that even the Su-35 is better than the F-22 and F-35, not to mention the Su-57. And if you don’t like anything, do better yourself and fly.

[Sands Careers General]

Just because Indians are babbling doesn’t mean it really is))
They are stupidly bargaining. Asia))

[Butchcassidy]

They're haggling again...

[Приговор]

This is written by an “analyst” from the country that created tanks that cannot travel anywhere except the desert. India, please accept my condolences.

[Govorun]

Indian Air Force: Su-57 is very expensive and loses F-22 and F-35. We can refuse from FGFA ...
They want to bring down the price, they behave not like Indians, but like gypsies....buy 22-35 and don’t whine later when you need to service them...

[Conserp]

The FGFA also doesn’t lose a damn thing - even if you cut it down, it’s head and shoulders above the F-22 in all significant respects.

There is no point in considering the F-35 at all; it is not capable of competing with the modified 3rd generation.

[Vadim237]

“It is not capable of competing with the modified 3rd generation.” This is with some kind - with Mig 23 or something - these are dreamers. In terms of avionics of the F 35, our Su 57 is exactly the same - since the element base is much more advanced.

[Conserp]

In fact, the F-35 has the same radar built on a long-obsolete element base (GaAs).

So there is no need to make people laugh who at least understand something.

[da Vinci]

Selling the most modern weapons without saturating your army is a crime! IMHO

[Ivan Hangoverov]

Well, probably the Indians know what they are talking about.
In the Sukhoi corporation, IMHO, the corruption rent is too high. For example, I know that they themselves do not implement any IT solutions, although they pay for the work of their specialists. And every sneeze for millions is provided to them by “their” sides of the company. Because For every million withdrawn, it’s dry for the leaders’ pockets.

[Conserp]

Yes, yes, you are Crimean yourself, the daughter of an officer!

[bessonov932]

We are trying to maintain good relations with everyone in this region: China, Pakistan, India... This is correct, but we have to reckon with periodic attacks from one of them. It’s good that they are not friends against us together.

[NordUral]

Start trading with the Indians. They are still moving into the orbit of the states, open your eyes. And we will have to develop weapons on our own, there is no need to harbor illusions.

[Hog]

They want to bring down the price, well, well, the F-35 will help)))

[On the Armor]

You can rely on them...

[LEYBSHTandArts.]

But Indians won’t say anything bad. They are very picky when choosing equipment.

[Romanenko]

Indian traders will not stop, they will swindle everything in sight, just to bring down the price and get new technologies.
As VV said, girls are boring... it’s the same thing, starting with the T-90 tank, they didn’t like it so much, they didn’t like it so much... that they almost choked on their saliva.
One thing is good - if the Indians criticize something, it means they really liked it, but it’s a pity for the money!

[Conserp]

The Indian edition of Hindustan Times published an article authored by Rahul Singh

Another most primitive American order.

The presstitute earns money.

Has nothing to do with the Indian Air Force.

Why replicate this nonsense?

[A.Kaledin]

What is the article about? Indians are great at bargaining. All these “expert opinions” are just part of the trade. An attempt to reduce the price. Is it worth paying so much attention to this!?

[Playerman]

Eggplants, that's what they are! Get maximum endorphins for a minimum investment, probably it’s genetics. In a word, EGGPLANT!

[Peter Rusin]

The smartest high-profile contract in the history of the Indians - if they buy 200 F-35s! but we are too weak to separate us! They may also buy Rafales to match)) We will help Pakistan, SU-35!!)))))))))

[lieutenant colonel]

I would say that the reason for India’s “dissatisfaction” with the Su 57 (as well as with the F 35) is the impossibility of 100% localization of production. All the best things that we Americans keep for ourselves, which is generally correct, but the Indians would get a product from the very light series (like Brahmos). Therefore, all the Indians’ talk about the high cost or lack of characteristics is a good face for a bad game.

[sabotage]

Quote: Lieutenant Colonel

I would say that the reason for India’s “dissatisfaction” with the Su 57 (as well as with the F 35) is the impossibility of 100% localization of production.

The captain is obvious: the reason for the dissatisfaction is that there is still no plane.

[Lexxtech]

They are missing the red dot on the lantern...

[Georgievic]

Damn, who is Rahula Singh? Is this shithead responsible for his words?

[Andrey Kandakov]

What can I say to them, they still pray for the cow

[Koronik]

“All these Indian “chamomile fortune-telling” about whether they need a joint project with Russia or not, and whether they need the F-35, are similar to the typical Indian bargaining system.” Why is it similar, these are bargaining systems.

[JON IVAHOVISH]

in my opinion there is nothing more expensive than the F35 and never will be

[Vadim237]

"Eurofighter Typhoon" price 124 million - for a fourth generation fighter. F 35B - 108 million.

[Conserp]

Quote: Vadim237

"Eurofighter Typhoon" price 124 million

Eurofighter Typhoon is a full-fledged fighter, not a flightless UG.

In addition, you should not take numbers from Wikipedia, especially Russian.

You need to look here:

http://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/18pr
es/APN_BA1-4_BOOK.pdf

F-35C in 2017 - $167 million naked, $235 million with gear.

F-35B in 2017 - $127 million naked, $140 million with gear.

[JON IVAHOVISH]

the whole point is that the US itself is shocked by the cost of F22 and F35 and they will never pay off and return the money to the developers, now under any pretext or at any cost they need to sell them - they lie that they are cheaper

[Evgeny Zhevlonenko]

By what criteria does it not fit? So it's just a fart in the water. Did they want a 5th generation aircraft for pennies at the price of the 4th? 4 yards is nothing, look at the cost of developing the F35.

[Reserve buildbat]

But don’t interfere))) Let them go out and try to buy an Fu-35. They won’t buy it because they don’t need an iron for the exorbitant price. Then sell them FGFA at exorbitant prices and without any technology transfers. And let them dry themselves off. And they dance on elephants

[bratchanin3]

India is a poor country with exorbitant ambitions. This can be understood from the clowning of turkeys in military uniforms at Indian parades. And when you really want to, but it just doesn’t work out, you have to talk nonsense in order to bring down the price. They say the gypsies came from India, if this is so, then you can imagine.

[vladasyar]

“It was also noted that the software of all systems of this aircraft, after the F-35 is sold to India, will still be under American control.”

India will buy planes, and in the event of hostilities in the Indian Ocean, they will take all the planes under their control and the pilot will not be able to do anything

[Alex von Dorn]

The cunning Indians are just bargaining. You have to be tough with them - don’t like the Su-57? -Walk around the bazaar, see where it might be cheaper and better. And then come... the price, however, will be 2 times higher. Dot.