Upgraded BMP-1 will equip the new gun

Soviet infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1, which are still in service with the Russian army and the National Guard, decided to modernize. The infantry fighting vehicles will be equipped with a 30-mm cannon from the BTR-82 armored personnel carrier, thanks to which they will be able to shoot down air targets, including Drones, reports RIA News with reference to several sources in the Russian defense industry

Currently, for testing, about 20 combat modules BTR-82 with an automatic gun 2А72 have been purchased. Such weapon is more modern than the 1А2 Thunder, originally based on the BMP-28. Its functionality is also different: if the Thunder is an anti-tank gun, then the new module can be used against lightly armored vehicles and low-flying targets - helicopters and even UAVs.

- Said the source agency.

The source noted that the decision to modernize the BMP-1 was due to the fact that this undemanding in operation technique could be effectively used in the fight against irregular armed formations after improving combat capabilities.

BMP-1 we have a lot, but they are outdated. At the same time, the arrival of such advanced developments as Armata, Kurganets and Boomerang is still a matter of two more years. And besides, why use such a super-modern technique against militants of terrorist organizations like ISIL *, when there is an old and proven technique that just needs to be improved

- he said.

Another source in the Russian military-industrial complex noted that the first batch of upgraded BMP-1 will go into service with the Ground Forces already in the summer of 2018.

According to open source data, during the production of the BMP-1 (1966-1988), more than 20 thousands of such machines were built. Currently, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and Rosgvardia are armed with about 1 thousands of BMP-1, 7 thousands of armored vehicles are stored by the Ministry of Defense

ISIS * is a terrorist organization banned in Russia.

Comments

[wicked pinnochio]

but what is the bad gun that is now

[Teberii]

The gun is good, but a narrow application, it is necessary to modernize. In this case, the entire park is not necessary. There is an opportunity to earn money.

[Thrall]

Quote: wicked pinnochio

but what is the bad gun that is now

The time of tank battles has passed, modern multitasking in the new battlefields for the modernized Soviet BMPs can be solved by installing new weapons.

[kenig1]

Against modern tanks, it has become powerless, only in side projections it can hit even in certain places.

[pomegranate]

If in general it arrives and the BMP itself does not slam earlier.

[Dreamboat]

Protv tanks certainly will not work, but many infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, in contrast to 30 mm. take it easily. Also for Thunder there is a fragmentation grenade against infantry, and for the fight against tanks was built "Baby" ....
Would replace the "Baby" but a newer ATGM, but otherwise everything is working.
Our 30 mm. guns this is still mr.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Dreamboat

Would replace "Baby" but a newer ATGM

Already! For a long time, "Baby" replaced by "Bassoon" ...

[Oden280]

The direct shot range is about 800 meters, from this distance from the BMP -1 there will be a colander. And with the accuracy of a moving target, the same is not very.

[73bor]

30 throws down all light armored vehicles, and knocks down all active defense and sights from tanks, including aircraft, and in the mountains it’s irreplaceable, “thunder” has long been an outdated Mr., when you write rubbish even with the TTX of weapons, read!

[Dreamboat]

And who writes nonsense? Since 2004 (since the adoption of the new standard), all NATO infantry fighting vehicles (and some heavy APCs) have been making 5th and 6th class of defense, not affected by 30 mm. shells in the front hemisphere. And the ancient Humvee or the Soviet armored personnel carrier can also be shot from a heavy machine gun, why put a gun at all? BOPS to our 30 mm. guns have not been created, but they are shoved everywhere, instead of developing the theme of 57 mm. gun or at least 40 mm. AP.
About the shelling of the tanks, he smiled, would put you so brave and send you to pick out from the current MBT DZ! Sights (duplicated on all modern MBTs) can be broken only by accident, since the accuracy of 2A42 is extremely low, and the rate of fire is so-so. That is, for BMP, such an attack = 100% death!
Now what I wrote: the Thunder gun is certainly outdated, but since it was essentially a launcher for active-reactive grenades, you can upgrade them ... and the range will not be 800 m, but much more. The fragmentation grenade flies up to 4500 meters.
Secondly, the task of combating armored vehicles must be solved by replacing ATGMs, a couple of directors of Cornet can do this much better. And use the gun to combat infantry. 2A42 is not suitable for this: the ammunition is small, no accuracy, the fragmentation and high-explosive effect is scanty. A remotely detonated shell has not been created (since a domestic fuse takes up the entire place of an explosive)! They are forced to add AGS to new combat modules! 73 mm. high-explosive high-explosive grenades worthy, making a remotely programmable fuse easier for such a projectile.
Therefore, I say again - in vain everywhere shove obsolete and not provided with decent ammunition 30 mm. guns. This "modernization" is 15-20 years behind.

[Dreamboat]

But seriously speaking, I would remove the combat module nafig or exchange it for a light remote control with Cord and convert the cars into ambulances or other auxiliary ones. With their reservation there is nothing to do on the battlefield for a long time. And so moderately nimble, passable, swim ..... still serve.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Dreamboat

But seriously speaking, I would remove the combat module nafig or exchange it for a light remote control with Cord and convert the cars into ambulances or other auxiliary ones. With their reservation there is nothing to do on the battlefield for a long time.

Well, it’s better to beha with thirty than highax with DShK.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Dreamboat

Now what I wrote: the Thunder gun is certainly outdated, but since it was essentially a launcher for active-reactive grenades, you can upgrade them ... and the range will not be 800 m, but much more. The fragmentation grenade flies up to 4500 meters.

Lol Of course, you can shoot from Thunder even for a couple of kilometers, yes. Just get there are chances for such a distance only in the middle five-story building, in silhouette, if you're lucky. 2A42 compared to thunder is just a sniper rifle. Although, of course, with a bunch of flaws, well, yes, they are already known to you.
But these fishing rods and so on dofigishta and in production they are nowhere cheaper. And fireplugs to them in general ... at least by the way, eat. Therefore, it is shoved into all the modules to reach.
A 57mm for BMP - 1 and 2 is overkill, there the body and chassis will not withstand the loads when firing from 57 mm.

[lance]

the cannon was not created to fight tanks; for this, the gun stood above the cannon.

[Genry]

Quote: Lance

the cannon was not created to fight tanks; for this, the gun stood above the cannon.

The gun there is similar to SPG-9, with the same grenades. The entire average armored vehicle is ruined without problems. And the ATGM (now the bassoon?) Remained, for heavy armor.

[antivirus]

modernization is already an achievement.
how did Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Andropov-Chernenko-Gorbachev work easily.
Not in vain in 2010 we only returned to the level of GDP of the 90th 20 years crawled out from under the tail of a cat, or vice versa?

[captain]

Quote: Teberii

The gun is good, but a narrow application, it is necessary to modernize. In this case, the entire park is not necessary. There is an opportunity to earn money.

BMP-1 in the army called the grenade launcher on wheels. The firing range of the 73mm Thunder gun was 1300 m, and the direct firing of a 765m cumulative projectile. LNG-9 had the same range. The elevation angle of the gun was very small. In battles in urban conditions and in the mountains, this was a significant drawback. I won’t talk much about ATGM “Baby”, but in order to learn how to shoot a gunner-operator from this ATGM, a special selection of people and long training were required. The loading mechanism was very moody and charged, as a rule, manually. During manual charging, no one controlled the battlefield, the gunner was also the commander of the car .. Two tanks in the rear landing doors are generally a monster. If the BMP became a roll on the nose, then the infantry through the rear doors could not land.
But there were very positive advantages; reliability, excellent maneuverability, good maneuverability, ease of operation, easy driving training and good maintainability. I will not write about communications; no literary words.

[Dreamboat]

Everything is so, but the gun still had a high-explosive fragmentation shot with a longer range. If you install a new ATGM, then the gun will be needed precisely against the infantry. Yes, and options for modernizing the sea shots, because active-reactive shot ...
And the replacement of the BMP-1 turret does not solve the problem of a small landing squad.

[alexmach]

And the replacement of the BMP-1 turret does not solve the problem of a small landing squad.

Obviously, that does not solve, it is decided solely by the design of the new machine. Well, drop a couple of paratroopers, place them take additional equipment.

[Dreamboat]

You are wrong: there are a number of BMP-1 upgrades where the height of the airborne squad increases. True, then replacement or lifting of the tower is required in order to maintain the possibility of circular shelling.

[Nikolaevich I]

Somehow, the version was voiced that the 73-mm caliber was also “approved” for the reason that it was intended to use the Strela MANPADS (72,5-mm) through the gun’s barrel. An article recently appeared on the alleged modernization of the CNG-9 grenade launcher ... talked about developing new ammunition ... why? At one time, in Belarus (?) A modernized 73-mm gun (gun) “Thunder-2” and several new ammunition were created: I don’t remember if there was a thermobaric shot, but there was also a concrete-piercing shot ...

[73bor]

The BMP-1’s landing compartment is not so small, much more than on the BMP-2, the installation of the module even the same “guard” solves all these problems, do not forget the thunder shells detonate when hit and the gun is limited in use especially in urban conditions and mountains!

[Dreamboat]

And the problem of too easy booking solves ?!
Look for how many BMP-1s were lost in Afghanistan, how many in Chechnya. How cool they make their way into the side of a machine gun ....

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Dreamboat

Look for how many BMP-1s were lost in Afghanistan, how many in Chechnya. How cool they make their way into the side of a machine gun ....

L and LPS does not pierce it anywhere even at point blank range. Armor strikes are only close to normal and from a distance of less than 100-200 meters, and then without a guarantee.

[RASKAT]

It’s high time that the Tuli from KBP back in the early 2000s offered an excellent Kliver module to be installed on the 1 infantry fighting vehicle as an upgrade.

As for me, armament is enough, the only thing that can be changed is to put new electronics on the module. New computer, all sorts of ballistic computers, monitor and optics. I think the new one will be better, and it takes up less space. And to equip the commander’s place with a monitor so that he, too, could conduct reconnaissance, and search for targets, otherwise it would be difficult for one gunner. One head it's good, but two better.
That something like this.

[Hunter 2]

7 thousand in storage !!! This I understand the scale!
Give out to the VO !!! Success - a victory !!!
Menu Sofa on BMP1. For a good option - My surcharge!

[11 black]

Quote: Hunter 2

7 thousand in storage !!! This I understand the scale!

That’s just the point - where to put all this now?
Well, they upgrade 500 pieces, well, in the best case, 1000 - you don’t need to, and where are the rest of 6000?
This is how technology cemeteries are born. An extra reminder that everything is good in moderation.

[lance]

Lebanon Syria Jordan

[Dreamboat]

Well, they’re going to convey something to Lebanon, they will be grateful in Syria ....

[alexmach]

In the training parts, they are used for training mechanical drivers. They can pass a substantial part of training on new equipment. On a new one, this is on BMP-2 and 3, not on Kurgan itself.

[Simargl]

Quote: 11 black

An extra reminder that everything is good in moderation.

An extra reminder that ok that didn't need ...

[Genry]

Quote: 11 black

Well, they upgrade 500 pieces, well, in the best case, 1000 - you don’t need to, and where are the rest of 6000?

You can use the chassis for various combat modules and use it as mobile firing points (machine guns, grenade launchers, mortars, guns, air defense), in conditions of poor passability (where the BTR-80/82 will not pass).

[albert]

Quote: 11 black

and the rest 6000 where?

Remove armaments and sell them on the civilian market. Patency is good, just for our off-road. RBDM sold with a bang.

[captain]

Quote: 11 black

Quote: Hunter 2

7 thousand in storage !!! This I understand the scale!

That’s just the point - where to put all this now?
Well, they upgrade 500 pieces, well, in the best case, 1000 - you don’t need to, and where are the rest of 6000?
This is how technology cemeteries are born. An extra reminder that everything is good in moderation.

And Russia is doing just that, modernizing and partially selling it. And partially remodels the early-release BMPs into various armored control vehicles, all types of support and repair vehicles.

[Sailor]

If you took up the moderate modernization of junk, then it’s fastened, and for war we need not wunderwafes, but workers and not whimsical horses and their number just for full-scale military operations, and all these Kurgan residents of Almaty and the like unfortunately we have in a very limited number, and judging by the latest events, everything goes to this. So some of us will change our sofa to BMP.

[Glory1974]

7 thousand in storage !!! This I understand the scale!

In the 90's, they received BMP-1 after repair, while BMP-2 removed from the GSVG with spare parts under the seals, novye, went for re-melting. The men almost cried looking at it.
And now we suffer for the second time, trying to modernize the trash.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Hunter 2

Meny Sofa on BMP1

No, really! The sofa is all-weather! And who wants to hunt for BMPs in winter ... freeze shorts?

[Okolotochny]

And remove the fuel tanks from the rear doors.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Okolotochny

And remove the fuel tanks from the rear doors.

Aha-aha ... both from the airborne squad and the batteries from the airborne squad, too. Oh, why doesn’t it go without fuel and batteries, then ...
In fact, there is nothing wrong with the tank doors; according to the manual, they were freed from fuel before the battle, drowned out and had to be filled with sand.

[Okolotochny]

Oh, why doesn’t it go without fuel and batteries, then ...

And what about the landing? Sit you understand, do nothing. Well this is humor. I think that with modern weapons, even the smallest possible damage should be ruled out. IMHO.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Okolotochny

remove the fuel tanks from the rear doors

What for? Where to store beer? And put the mash?

[Genry]

Quote: Okolotochny

And remove the fuel tanks from the rear doors.

Are you on Gorbachev, with his anti-alcohol program mowing? A place for mash to clean?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: RASKAT

excellent jib module

the gun is just unsuccessful for this module. For some unknown reason, they didn’t install the good old 2A42, but the lightweight 2A72 (which was created for the BMP-3 in order to reduce the gas contamination of the fighting compartment) 2A42 would also ideally work on a module with external weapons (external weapons means there is no need to deal with gas pollution) , which has no shortcomings 2A72 - such as an overly lightweight barrel that vibrates when fired - with a corresponding loss of accuracy. Take a closer look at the design that was piled around the gun - to increase the rigidity of the barrel (because without this the gun does not get anywhere - only in milk). The garden turned out. On the BMP-3 gun is in conjunction with the "weaving", which provides rigidity.

[tchoni]

Yes, nothing really bad. Just the number of "modern" technology in the troops needs to be increased. And we will not see the Kurgan from the army ... And there’s no grandmother on them either. And so, the gun was changed, they immediately reported upstairs - the percentage of new equipment increased and the grandmother saved

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Angry Pinnochio

but what is the bad gun that is now

Its ballistics.

[113262a]

There is no stabilizer, shooting even from the track is impossible!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Angry Pinnochio

but what is the bad gun that is now

essentially a grenade launcher. With little accuracy, firing range, and the impossibility of firing at high targets. Actually, the “one” for the “two” for this reason was changed - the outdated fighting compartment of the first.
However, now there are so many modules that you can put any - even from an armored personnel carrier (which is very budgetary), at least Cleaver, at least Epoch (all with a 30-mm autocannon), at least Baikal with a 57-mm gun

[Kurare]

Quote: Gregory_45

However, now there are so many modules that you can put any - even from an armored personnel carrier (which is very budgetary), at least Cleaver, at least Epoch (all with a 30-mm autocannon), at least Baikal with a 57-mm gun

But will Baikal not be too heavy? Yes, and such an upgrade will be too expensive.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Kurare

But will Baikal not be too heavy?

Baikal will normally get on the car.

Quote: Kurare

Yes, and such an upgrade will be too expensive

it already depends on the capabilities of the customer. Any whim for his money.

[svp67]

Quote: Angry Pinnochio

but what is the bad gun that is now

Yes, at least the firing range and low elevation angles

[a.boroda61]

limited bore angle ... range of shots ...

[67STRELOK]

She is neither bad nor good! The gun must meet the tasks of the unit! When preparing for war with NATO countries, the gun was normal. The BMP went from the tanks 100 meters behind, and the infantry 600-800 in front, clearing grenade launchers and recoilless guns. Then Afghanistan showed that with dushmans more emphasis should be placed on the defeat of manpower. The Russian Guard is not going to participate in tank battles. What is the article about?

[KVU-NSVD]

Currently, about 20 BTR-82 combat modules with a 2A72 automatic gun have been purchased for testing.

I didn’t finish something, will the tower on the old behi be replaced with an uninhabited module? It’s not bad in general, of course, to drive carts with “bearded” cars and work “by birds”, but will it not require serious alterations of the car and will such a temporary measure be cheap enough?

[Thrall]

Just bmp1 will become more like bmp3.

[KVU-NSVD]

Good afternoon .

Thrall Today, 08: 21 ↑
Just bmp1 will become more like bmp3.

Yes, it’s clear, I’m just saying that modernization for several years may turn out to be unnecessarily expensive for these purposes .. It’s said that in two or three years a new generation of BBM will begin to arrive, and not the old ones with a long sweat use against basmachi in the presence of new samples in the ranks ...

[Rumata-estorskii]

It is always cheaper to upgrade what is. Remember, even the ships lifted from the bottom of the sea after various battles, that the Japanese, that the British put into operation. Moreover, the BMP-1 is a well-developed, reliable car; there are no childhood diseases. Normal news, that's right.

[Simargl]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

do not upgrade the old ones, counting on long then use against the basmachi in the presence of new samples in the ranks ...

You can sell it. In some countries, the T-34 is in use and the BMP-1/18 (/ 18 ?! ) will be like a spaceship.

[avt]

Quote: Thrall

Just bmp1 will become more like bmp3.

What a fright! ?? Well, if and

Quote: Thrall

Simple

We are talking about fast, massive and relatively cheap saturation of motorized infantry units with technology. ,, Three rubles "are seen in Serdyukomakarov so that they cannot really collect new ones in the right quantities," Kurganets "in .... well, as in the classics -, , You will be waist-deep “. What do we have? Modernization ,, Deuces” and this ersatz version, which, well, taking into account the distribution of a “penny” around the World, it’s quite possible for itself to export. it will be more comfortable than in the "deuce" then.

[kytx]

BMP3 is expensive and complicated, and there are tons of units in warehouses

[captain]

Quote: Thrall

Just bmp1 will become more like bmp3.

Not on the BMP-3, but on the BMP-2. BMP-3 has 100 mm and 30mm guns., AGS-17. BMP-2 has 30 mm gun and AGS-17.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

the tower on the old behi will be replaced by an uninhabited module

The module from the armored personnel carrier is habitable. It’s just that the operator is sitting below the shoulder strap; In fact, all the same remains, slightly podshamanit scheme for connecting the module.
At all. such upgrades are relevant for third countries, where there is a lot of old equipment, nowhere to get new, and conflicts are similar to WHO, where the old car will come down

[Vard]

I can’t understand what ... The Pentagon has already announced that a war with us is not far off ... and we are preparing for a war ... with irregular formations ...

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Vard

I can’t understand what ... The Pentagon has already announced that a war with us is not far off ... and we are preparing for a war ... with irregular formations ...

Yes, they have been dreaming about this for a long time, from the 45th, and even earlier ... But the Rosguard must also prepare for the fulfillment of its mission, and chasing the broads is one of these tasks ..

[Per se.]

Quote: Vard

The Pentagon has already announced that the war with us is not far off ... and we are preparing for a war ... with irregular formations ...

For the big war, against full-fledged armies, just the upgraded BMP-1 (as well as the upgraded BMP-2), together with the best BMP-3, are much more suitable. And, here such mastodons, as Т-15, more likely, will be suitable as an anti-guerilla, police equipment, for a war with terrorists, such as ISIS. Moreover, with the prospect of almost piece production, an expensive and complicated "platform."

[mac789]

That's why modernization. Better on an improved BMP 1 than on foot or on some sort of splitter. And if they also do an unmanned Vartant ...
Interestingly, DZ can be installed on it

[Genry]

Quote: mac789

Interestingly, DZ can be installed on it

On the BMP-3 is. But it will increase the weight by 3-4 tons.

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: mac789

Interestingly, DZ can be installed on it

it is possible, but in essence it is necessary to do and put KAZ

[Grigory_45]

Quote: prosto_rgb

but in essence it is necessary to do and put KAZ

KAZ cost is very high. Equipping them with ancient cars is simply sky-high sums. I understand that one can argue - they say, human lives are more expensive. But this is not for me, but in the Moscow Region. If KAZ gets at least new tanks, it’s already good.

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: Gregory_45

KAZ cost is very high.

need to cut a series
it is clear that single instances are like radar from a fighter 4 +++
but there are so many pieces of infantry fighting vehicles, and also tanks (and not only in the Russian army)

[Kurare]

Quote: mac789

Interestingly, DZ can be installed on it

If memory serves, in the past they checked the effect of DZ on the "maternal" armor of BMP 1/2. On BMP 1, she could not stand it, began to crack. BMP 2 was slightly better, but abandoned it in the same way due to a significant increase in weight.
You can use the experience of the Syrians with screens, etc. Half solution, but the machine for such body kits has never been designed.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Kurare

You can use the experience of the Syrians with screens

it is the Syrians who have borrowed experience. We offered to install the grilles for a long time. In particular, recently there was information that they were going to upgrade the existing deuces to the BMP-2M variant. The car was shown back in the late 90s. As you can see, the screens are in stock

The whole thing is that lattice screens live until the first obstacle, then they simply "lose" them. Not to mention the fact that they add weight and do not give any guarantee even against old shots for RPG-7. And in no way affect the ballistic protection

[Grits]

After the first waves of a nuclear strike are rolled, and the first echelons of regular troops on elite armored vehicles are forgotten and covered with ashes, rusty Behi-1 with partisans inside and crumble the enemy will rush along the glazed ground. Anyway, this is better than running after the adversary in kirzach for your two or in pickups.

[Hermann]

You can’t imagine cheaper modernization of the BMP-1.
In the photo modernization from Muromteplovoz with a gun 2A42.

[Per se.]

There was another version of the BMP-1 with BM BHNUMXYA05. Also, the modernization of the BMP-1 allowed the installation of combat units MB2-03 or MB2-05.

[Hermann]

These are options from different manufacturers, with Berezhok it is the Tula KBP and with the MB2 module Muromteplovoz.

[silverwolf88]

There is a potential for modernization ... you can bet on this (including offering countries where there are a large number of BMP-1s) ... changing the equipment of the turret and weapons control ... an external body kit that increases protection ... all this can be realized .. .

[Pivot]

I think the allies in BV and Central Asia will go as help.

[ARES623]

"Such a weapon is more modern than the 1A2 Thunder gun that originally stood on the BMP-82."
Dear editors, how can such typos be allowed. On the BMP-1 was a 73mm gun 2A28. And 2A82 is a 125mm smoothbore gun for the T-14. “Thunder” really needs to be changed a long time ago, if it has remained somewhere. The gun is not equipped with a stabilizer. Elevation angle up to 30 degrees. The striking effect of the shots does not meet promising goals. Sighting range of 800-1300 meters. Maybe even the Babies somewhere in the troops were lying around?

[Herculesic]

Do not believe it, Dmitry, but there are a lot of babies in our warehouses! It doesn’t matter where, but it’s important that we still have them!

[ARES623]

Quote: Herkulesich

we have a lot of babies in our warehouses!

As far as my memory serves me, in order to make the first practical launch of this shell, at least 1500 electronic ones must be made. Those. You need to train in managing Baby for a long time and hard. I wonder how many operators in Russia are able to get Baby at least into a standing shed? While we will train them, their use will no longer be relevant. It seems that it’s time to give out these Babies to “museums of engineering” as exhibits.

[cedar]

"... I think it’s time to give out these Babies to the" museums of engineering "as exhibits ..."

Let them lie. There will also be craftsmen on them. Upgrade to fear enemies.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: cedar

Let them lie

Argentineans also had bombs in warehouses. Long. And then, in 1982, they - alas and ah, refused to explode.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Gregory_45

Argentineans also had bombs in warehouses. Long. And then, in 1982, they - alas and ah, refused to explode.

There was a problem in American fuses - the fuses received just before the war from the USA simply did not work. By the way, just the old fuses worked normally.

[Genry]

Quote: ARES623

You need to train in managing Baby for a long time and hard. I wonder how many operators in Russia are able to get Baby at least into a standing shed?

It seems to have done a modernization with an automatic missile. It is only necessary to keep a cross on the target.

[ARES623]

Quote: Genry

It seems to have done a modernization with an automatic missile. It is only necessary to keep the cross in the target

As he was the 1st generation at 3 points, he remained. There were attempts to modernize the control system, but I did not see any serial models. After dismantling the guides above the gun, a pipe was immediately welded at the BUT hatch for the bassoon. Obviously, it’s easier to make a new complex, remodel the old one. Old (Baby) is easier to sell to countries where it is still in service and has trained personnel for it.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ARES623

There were attempts to modernize the control system, but I did not see any serial models.

The helicopter version of "Baby-P" was a semi-automatic

[mac789]

And Mona in my personal museum, a hundred other Malyutok. Oh please. Well, do you feel sorry for something

[Kurare]

Quote: Herkulesich

Do not believe it, Dmitry, but there are a lot of babies in our warehouses! It doesn’t matter where, but it’s important that we still have them!

I doubt it. When was the last baby released in the USSR? And their shelf life is quite limited, in my opinion about 15-20 years.

[Hiller]

Have you ever had to launch the Baby? I must say that preparing a gunner-operator, even with a simulator, is not an easy task ... Practically a "pianist" .. I have 5 combat launches ... 1 miss .. how many electronic ones and I don’t remember .. after receiving an IFV 2 s " The competition "-" earth and sky "... so today, I’m sure that those who are in the custody of" Baby "have no chance ... without operators and simulators ...

[konstantin68]

Quote: Vard

I can’t understand what ... The Pentagon has already announced that a war with us is not far off ... and we are preparing for a war ... with irregular formations ...

So they are irregular formations. Or do you think they will fight with their own hands?

[Herculesic]

Sell ​​them, the benefit of an inexpensive car buyers will be many, and the masses themselves three for the guard to buy.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Herman

You can’t imagine cheaper modernization of the BMP-1.
In the photo modernization from Muromteplovoz with a gun 2A42.

As I understand it, I had to probably reduce the landing squad due to an uninhabited module?

[Hermann]

On the contrary, the usable volume has increased. The module has smaller dimensions than the original tower.

[Xroft]

How can you leave bmp 1 in service? This is outdated trash stitching through, and lacking elementary mine protection. The coffin on the tracks. And there’s no need to tell stories that he will only carry infantry, it makes any MRI safer and faster. And they also scolded the Kazakhs that they relocated to the marauders of the Republic of South Africa and began to produce them 100 times more reliable and efficiently. Moreover, this * modernization * in the plan will be written down as a new technique. The Papuans are African and they are trying to defend their fighters ... and as usual, we * save * in people what it is with 72bz ...

[Vadim237]

To this machine in the local fighting of the khan, neither protective shields nor active defense complexes, the armor is thin - her 12,7 rifle breaks through.

[Glory1974]

How is it possible to leave the 1 BMP in service?

I agree. This is truly a mass grave of infantry.
According to statistics, during the destruction of infantry fighting vehicles in 49% of cases, the crew dies.
When the APC is destroyed, the crew dies in 15%. The chances of staying alive on an APC in 3 are (three) times higher than in an BMP!

[Hiller]

Statistics - "science" in the service of the rulers ... whoever pays and orders .. received a denyuzhu respectively voiced ... The fighting does not accept this. Therefore, your references to "science" are surreal .. Practice (criterion of truth). Here, everything is not so clear: "beh1" was both a house, and transport, and a savior ... something like that. I’m not talking about what needs or is not necessary to modernize. I'm categorical statements.

[Glory1974]

Statistics - "science" in the service of the rulers ... who pays and orders. Therefore, your links to "science" are surreal ..

did not understand your statement. Do you think the statistics were collected from computer toys?

Practice (criterion of truth)

Losses during the hostilities in the North Caucasus are analyzed. And from the statistics of combat losses, figures are presented. You may not believe them, but this will not improve the survival of the BMP crews.

[Hiller]

The war in the North Caucasus, especially at the initial stage, was characterized by enormous losses as a result of illiterate actions by the command personnel and the complete lack of training of personnel, as well as elementary violations of the requirements of the Battle Charter. TTX BMP there played the 10th role.

[Glory1974]

TH BMPs played the 10 role there.

That is, illiterate actions were committed only by those who fought on the BMP. Those who fought on the APCs were deprived of this shortcoming?

[Hiller]

Have you come to talk, talk, or participate in a discussion? You claim that losses ("chances to stay alive") in the Caucasus of units equipped with armored personnel carriers are 3 times greater than units in BMPs ("according to statistics") Information source, please, dear! And the second question: "And you yourself personally there were there?"After answering these two questions, we can continue the discussion.

[Hiller]

I explain to you personally ("he who knows ears and reason, hears and understands") as well as TTX BTR -10th role!

[Glory1974]

I explain to you personally

What does the TTX have to do with it? Have I even said a word about them?

Have you personally been there?

was

A source of information,

Database analysis in TFR from 1994 to 2004 GS

[Hiller]

Link please .... This is an empty phrase with "free". Is it from the TFR or the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?

[Hiller]

"and here TTX" ??? Surprise ... they imply the possibility of technology, and therefore the ability to fulfill the task in various conditions of the environment .. or not to fulfill.

[Hiller]

The word "was" obliges much. First of all, to abandon their infallibility in judgments. "Practice is the criterion of truth" (I repeat).

[Glory1974]

Practice is the criterion of truth "(I repeat).

So I gave you an example from practice. It’s strange that you didn’t understand it. However, given that you couldn’t decipher the abbreviation correctly, you probably don’t understand what it is about. There are no links to documents with a signature stamp on the network.

First of all, to abandon their infallibility in judgments.

You confuse me with someone. The numbers are voiced in the General Staff, claims, if something is not correctly calculated for him.

[konstantin68]

What a huge reserve the USSR left! Thanks a lot to weapons designers! The car is just cool, despite some "diseases". At one time, it was fully consistent with the tasks that were set before it.

[Vadim237]

Once it may have been cool - but certainly not now, during a large abundance of RPGs and ATGMs, as well as large-caliber rifles.

[Domozgarussky]

Is it upgraded only after replacing the gun will become? Or is it already modernized, but still need to replace the gun?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Domozgarussky

Is it upgraded only after replacing the gun will become? Or is it already modernized, but still need to replace the gun?

Yes, in principle, there were a lot of upgrades .... changed both weapons and equipment, increased armor ... both in Russia and "abroad" ... in some cases they produced certain "amounts", in others they were limited to prototypes. .
http://wartools.ru/bmp/bmp-1-modifikatsii-mashiny
-na-baze-kritika-sluzhba-i-boevoe-prim

[konstantin68]

Quote: Herman

On the contrary, the usable volume has increased. The module has smaller dimensions than the original tower.

Generally chic then.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Vadim237

To this machine in the local fighting of the khan, neither protective shields nor active defense complexes, the armor is thin - her 12,7 rifle breaks through.

Do not confuse the BMP-1 with the tank, it had other tasks.

[Xroft]

This is again a story from the category of which he should only carry infantry, any MREP does it better, faster and SAFETY. BMP-1 obsolete car from another era.

[Genry]

Quote: Xroft

This is again a story from the category of which he should only carry infantry, any MREP does it better, faster and SAFETY. BMP-1 obsolete car from another era.

MCI is not safer. Now they do not save on explosives and do not aim to undermine a separate car. An infantry fighting vehicle is more reliable with near-explosive land mines or shelling of 12 mm weapons (thicker armor)
And compare the height of your MRI and this BMP. Compare permeability. Compare the ability to install weapons. Has it turned out that MRAP is a rear vehicle (for driving on roads), and an infantry fighting vehicle is a combat vehicle? In Syria, have you seen a lot of MCIs?

[Xroft]

12mm weapons? BMP-1 on board even breaks 7.62 what are you talking about? Well, compare the BMP-1 and the Marauder of South Africa about which I wrote, but there is also Barys (this is an example of poor neighbors, without taking advanced armies). What is the cross-country ability and speed of the BMP there? Without even adjusting to the STANAG standard. A resource of use? Have you compared? It dawned that this is an obsolete coffin created in another era? Do not tell me. Modules for wheeled vehicles right now you just want to put the WAGON Cornets, you want the AGS, whatever.
Well, look at what the Turks and Americans are traveling to Syria or NATO in Afghanistan. Is there a lot of caterpillar transport for the transfer? And they have m113 in huge quantities, which they are trying to fuse as soon as possible. In all the columns there are only Mraps. Have you seen?

[Genry]

Quote: Xroft

12mm weapons? BMP-1 on board even breaks 7.62 what are you talking about?

What did you mean? Maybe they messed up with some sort of armored personnel carrier. BMP-1 with 100m holds 12mm to the side, and 20mm to the forehead.

Quote: Xroft

Modules for wheeled vehicles right now, just want a WAGON. Put the Cornets, you want the AGS, whatever.

Are you talking about a lung that doesn’t change the alignment much? And from heavy, from guns, mortars, small MLRS - what do you suggest?

[Xroft]

BMP-1, according to the Soviet classification of the 70s, kept 7.62 on board (12mm didn’t even smell there). Let's not say that a modern armor-piercing cartridge and 70s are different things? The facts of breaking through are in the internet since Chechnya in huge quantities.
If you want something serious about weapons, look at the modules for Barys or French vabs, even there is an airborne 30mm typhoon (although according to your logic, why is transport such weapons?)

[Genry]

Quote: Xroft

BMP-1 according to the Soviet classification of the 70s kept 7.62 on board (12mm did not even smell there)

Not giving up and being stubborn are two different things. It’s not for me to train you at the “school”. You will already be changing your ideas.

Quote: Xroft

If you want something serious about weapons, look at the modules for Barys or French vabs, even there is an airborne 30mm typhoon (although according to your logic, why is transport such weapons?)

With MDIs you managed it and pulled out on heavy APCs.

[Xroft]

So far, only you are being treated ... but there is no point in saying something to an incompetent person who considers taufun a heavy armored personnel carrier, good luck in your theories)

[Genry]

Quote: Genry

on barys or french vab, even on our typhoon airborne

Quote: Xroft

it makes no sense to say something to a non-competent person who considers taufun a heavy APC

I didn’t want to say that you had cereal in your head ...

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Xroft

So far, only you are being treated ... but there is no point in saying something to an incompetent person who considers taufun a heavy APC

What is it? An armored personnel carrier, even if it is “mine resistance” and “embouch protected,” will remain an armored personnel carrier.

[Xroft]

Especially for the blind as they drive in hot spots.

[Xroft]

And here the question is not even caterpillars against wheels, but junk against modern realities. Where is the BMP-3? since we are praying for equipment based on Almaty / Kurgan, we need to buy normal new weapons that our military-industrial complex has now, and not then read the reports at the briefings that 100 new pieces of equipment arrived, and there are cardboard BMP-1s with guns from armored personnel carriers .. .naked t-72bz and other

[Genry]

Quote: Xroft

Especially for the blind as they drive in hot spots.

Especially for losers. It's so drive on the rear roadswhere military operations are not conducted, but sabotage activity is possible.
BMP - a car for battle, not for roads.

[Xroft]

What are the rear roads? Is it a combat zone in the operation of a palm branch or do you want BMP 1 in a line in a city building with t 72 so that there is generally barbecue left from the compartment? You think the preparation of the 70s ... armored avalanches until the crib will not wake up. Mrap has already been proven to everyone the best and safest way to transfer infantry.

[Xroft]

Actually, this is why our people in Syria are on Iveco, typhoons and shots, and not on coffins

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Xroft

Actually, this is why our people in Syria are on Iveco, typhoons and shots, and not on coffins

This is because there is no task to participate in direct clashes. Regular linear units still prefer BMPs as more stable weapon platforms.

[Xroft]

The question is not to abandon the BMP in favor of the Mrap, the question of abandoning the specific BMP-1 which is already controversial, and now is just morally obsolete and cannot compete even with the Mraps in our time (not by armor, not by mobility, and even by armament with some models) and if you compare it with modern BMPs, then this is just rubbish, why do we need rubbish in the army?

[Genry]

Quote: Xroft

Mrap has already been proven to everyone the best and safest way to transfer infantry.

It just won’t reach you that an infantry fighting vehicle is not for transferring infantry, but for active battles (although not in the first line of attack).

[Schutnik]

Genry (Genry), why should Xroft (Ivan) explain and prove something? Especially on the reservation - let him explain better what are the marks on the BMP-shek in front, on board (opposite the place of the mechanical drive) and on the aft doors?

[Vadim237]

"She had other tasks." Then what’s the gun for her?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: konstantin68

Do not confuse BMP-1 with a tank, it had other tasks

BMP is not an armored personnel carrier, it is intended including for combat. It must provide fire support to infantry and tanks, i.e. have at least protection against small arms (including heavy machine guns)

[Strashila]

And what will be made of an armored box made in Soviet times, but nothing. The combat module ... why immediately with a gun, well, if there is a desire then why be limited to only 30 mm ... put 57 mm ... lovers of large trunks. Perhaps unification with various weapons designed for robotic systems ... there are enough of the same options.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Xroft

This is again a story from the category of which he should only carry infantry, any MREP does it better, faster and SAFETY. BMP-1 obsolete car from another era.

Mrap, which you mean, are very expensive. Here we must also take into account the financial capabilities of the country. And so, of course, it is better to fight on modern technology than on a 50-year-old.

[Xroft]

And MO planning is annoying when under the guise of new equipment the junk is being boiled. And the price here is a question of a series and established production, look at the nomenclature of what they buy from us? this is VINEGRET, there is no unification at all. Not in technology, not in arms. 3 (!!!) main combat helicopters, even Americans cannot afford, 3 (!!) main tanks, this is not even considering the Armata which we are further from the Moscow divisions oh as soon as we see. About the number of MPIs and wheeled vehicles I generally am silent, you can lose count, Scorpions, Tigers, Wolves, Punishers, Typhoons,
shots, etc. And in fact, stupidly lobbying the factories for kickbacks and buying lots of raw unworked unfinished cars (also with foreign components) for 20-30sh Instead of a single concept. We pray to Armata and Kurgan, and go to battle BMP-1

[Vadim237]

Well, the military budget may well be overpowered 120 billion rubles to acquire 2000 Typhoons U

[Hurricane70]

Quote: Okolotochny

And remove the fuel tanks from the rear doors.

What prevented the tanks? When he served on it in the GSVG-ZGV, we didn’t step back on the exercises I agree, if it was on gasoline ... Where are you going to find the place for the body tanks? Instead of landing?

[Genry]

Quote: Hurricane70

Where can you find a place for bod tanks on it?

Those tanks are not really needed. In them, various "bodyads" were transported or prepared.

[AlexVas44]

ISIS seems like a long time, since equipment is being prepared to deal with them. But even the enemy’s means of combating armored targets are being updated. And the protection of the BMP is clearly different from the tank.

[Professor]

BMP-1 we have a lot left, but they are outdated. At the same time, the arrival of such advanced developments as Armata, Kurganets and Boomerang is still a question of two more years. Yes, and besides why use such ultra-modern technology against militants of terrorist organizations such as ISIS * when there is an old and proven technique that just needs to be improved

Really why? After all, terrorists are weakly armed and slightly dangerous. The fact that they are armed with Cornets and TOU is a small thing. Most importantly, they do not have ICBMs.

[tchoni]

And most importantly, the og ogs do not apply nirazu .... from the body at all. And yet, the armor of the mass grave of infantry cannot be pierced from ZU-23. And yet, this very grave is a light Toyota with this same ZUShka in the body, catching up ....

[Praetorian4]

Quote: professor

Really why?

Then, that those who city this nonsense, they do not fight with terrorists.

[fa2998]

And you can even remove the tower, but to cook on the body handrails and staples, so that the landing was what he grabbed! If this is an INFANTRY fighting vehicle, why doesn’t the same infantry ride inside, but everything is on armor? So this canning does not give protection, and in case of danger, the troops will run away from it!

[Sands Careers General]

why doesn’t the same infantry ride inside, but is it all on armor?

Because it will turn into a barbecue when a cumulative projectile hits. And indeed any projectile.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Because it will turn into a barbecue when a cumulative projectile hits. And indeed any projectile.

Because the rams. All practice already screams that under the armor the losses are several times less than on the armor, but the rams can’t prove anything. The movement on the armor has only one advantage - better visibility.

[Sands Careers General]

Yah? For a long time corpses pulled out of the BMP or armored personnel carrier, which turned into a mass grave?
You’ll get shell shock on the armor, inside - 100% corpse.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Yah? For a long time corpses pulled out of the BMP or armored personnel carrier, which turned into a mass grave?
You’ll get shell shock on the armor, inside - 100% corpse.

That's it, that's it ... Just such deer are usually then from the armor and scrubbed off by those who were under the armor.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Vadim237

Well, the military budget may well be overpowered 120 billion rubles to acquire 2000 Typhoons U

Well yes. Just why? Will you deliver infantry to the battlefield on Typhoons?

[Xroft]

better on them? than on the coffin of the BMP-1? I would be glad if all of our infantry was transported on equipment that corresponded to level 3 protection according to the STANAG standard, at least 3 .....

[Zubr]

2A72. Such a weapon is more modern than the 1A2 "Thunder" gun that was originally installed on the BMP-82. Its functionality is also different: if the “Thunder” is an anti-tank gun

EhsPERD ..... But what about the staff that are in the state ....

[Awaz]

The idea of ​​modernization of a huge amount of “trash” itself has some reasonable beginnings, but it’s just stupid to change weapons - it’s cut dough.
Personally, I have a simple thought on this subject - if we upgrade, then we need to start with the protection of the crew and the landing, which will lead to an increase in weight and that means the chassis needs to be brought in line, then the engine, etc., etc. .. And you have to go Soviet methods, that is, think through such a modernization that with minimal means and maximum unification with more modern models.

[rocket757]

Has the application concept changed? It seems like not, i.e. generals get ready for a PAST war!
Well, we can give repair companies / workshops to earn money ... the identity seems to be necessary.
In a future (empirical) war, will this technique, even modernized, be in demand?
Who knows who will answer what it will be (if any) ???

[Dr. Hub]

Well, getting ready for the upcoming war? Armats and boomerangs will last for a maximum of a month, and then these old men will do. I think they’ll get to the English Channel. All non-foot infantry stomp

[rocket757]

And if the next war is a battle of drones? How does an BMP fit ... a heavy, gluttonous cart for infantry?

[Sands Careers General]

It would be better to sell to third countries, drive the barmalei. And so, with all the pros, this is a coffin on wheels. As I recall how many of them we burned ...

[rocket757]

Option. It’s worthless to give it away, but to sell the Schaub? so it’s work, you need to move, do not travel to Paris, London, but to all sorts of fun / dangerous places!

[serriy]

rather, the armature will be sold to India. together with production. of course, on credit, irrevocable.
our pseudo-patriots will be delighted.

[rocket757]

What did you want to say? And HU are pseudo-patriots?

[Jora 2]

We denied the Indians partial production of the S-400, but they refused to sign the contract ..

[rocket757]

Haggling, this is how it goes. Bazaar however!

[Mountain shooter]

Modernization is much cheaper and faster. “Thunder” is a modernized SPG-9 - both the caliber is small and the range. It’s not economical to write off a huge amount of fully operational “armor”, which has proved itself in Syria.

[lance]

In general, the concept of using BMPs has completely changed since the 70s, and it does not go to fortification points to attack. main objective delivery support fire from behind shelter

[rocket757]

Those. heavy, lightly armored, voracious infantry cart with limited combat use?

[lance]

those. when is a march in combat or following tanks into a breakthrough infantry on tank towers? tie up to look for what the BMP cannot and learn how to use it where necessary

[rocket757]

Those. like in past wars.
The question is - if there is a war, will it be like the last?
Another question - what kind of wars are hypothetical opponents preparing for?

[Graz]

I’m afraid they’ll modernize this junk now and, as a result, will complete new projects, citing the high cost and unnecessity, as before World War II, Marshal Kulik concealed automatic small arms, they say there’s enough mosinas, the situation could be repeated one in one

[rocket757]

Those. save the lives of soldiers and provide fire support? very limited. Is it incomprehensible to fit into the new concept of warfare, however, is it also incomprehensible with the new concept?
Getting ready for the last war?

[Vadim851]

That would put 57 mm Baikal and run it on this machine as it should. Now the armor is decent for the BMP, 2A72 is far from penetrating everything. And on infantry, the action of a 57mm projectile is much more effective and much more dangerous for tanks (it won’t penetrate armor, but after a few hits you can forget about all the equipment outside)

[Hermann]

The recoil from the 57-mm gun is too large for the BMP-1, the Poles at one time put a turret with a Swedish 40-mm gun on it and it was already too much.

[Vadim851]

Although yes ... There under 1,5 MJ it turns out.

[tchoni]

I read the news - I go quietly. Few, it seems, the people fell on and in the "mass graves of the infantry" number one and two. A great car for everyone ... The gun will be changed - and everything will be fine for you. At least the personnel will not sit in an embrace with three dozen high-explosive and cumulative shots. But alas. The gun is not the main problem of the infantry graves. In the American South, there was such a torture-punishment for negligent slaves: they were thrust into an iron cramped box and exposed in the sun. The whole difference between the mass graves of the infantry from this box is that it also shakes along the road and, to the heap, drives the engine into the combat and landing squads. Then, another problem was the armor. More precisely, its absence. At the training ground, one of the mashrooms was the BMP skeleton number of times. so, when shooting just below the tracks from a distance of less than 100 meters, the armor was pierced not only by the NSV bullet, but also by the SVD armor-piercing bullet. True, the skeleton was burnt, perhaps this is the case. Then there was a blast .... He even in the case of a not very powerful mine in the cabin of the grave of infantry was not healthy. So they drove on the armor, and received group shell shock in the event of a successful hit from an RPG, and suffered losses from all sorts of machine gun snipers, anti-personnel mines and just plain mortars, including FOGs from improvised pipes launched. .... So think about the modernization of the BMP or not suitable. It seems that it is suitable if our soldiers will not ride on it.

[Xscorpion]

Quote: 11 black

Quote: Hunter 2

7 thousand in storage !!! This I understand the scale!

That’s just the point - where to put all this now?
Well, they upgrade 500 pieces, well, in the best case, 1000 - you don’t need to, and where are the rest of 6000?
This is how technology cemeteries are born. An extra reminder that everything is good in moderation.

It seems to me that this will be more for foreign operators, there are still about 5 thousand of them in service in dozens of countries abroad. We do not have many of them left in the troops, mainly in training units, they were not left in combat contract units, there are already they even began to get rid of the “deuces.” Those who remained to upgrade them are not necessary, the equipment has concrete wear already, and more in engines than in weapons. This is in the army. How many people in the military units of the Russian Guard are not aware, maybe they will partially upgrade them . Most likely, those in storage will be quietly remodeled, and fraternal countries as assistance. Syria, Tajikistan, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and so on.

[Evil 55]

It's time ... and hang the screens ...

[Graz]

I heard that there is a weight limit on the suspension, so little can be done to strengthen the armor of these old cars

[Vadim237]

Yes, and what is hung will be useless even against old RPGs - they will be shot from the NATO grenade launcher, 40 mm grenades with a cumulative funnel in abundance.

[groks]

Well, after they began to modernize the T-80 and T-72, a completely expected solution.
Replacing the anti-tank 2A28 (and not 82!) Is also understandable. The machine will now be more designed for CTOs than for full-fledged databases. Tales of air targets reformers let in ... put the trunk.

[igor1981]

Everything is true, to write off, dispose of and distribute to everyone left and right do not need anything. Who knows, when still new models of equipment will be in service in sufficient quantities, and the modernized BMP 1 will do. Now it’s not the USSR and the new equipment doesn’t enter the troops in such quantity as during the union.

[Servisinzhener]

You can sell papus, but why not yourself? I don’t understand the situation when the old equipment is operated, when several generations of the new one have already come out. Moreover, this newer one is already in storage by thousands of units. Why upgrade BMP-1 to BMP-2 level if BMP-2 is full. Just recently there was news that the T-55 is being replaced on the Kuril Islands with the T-80. I can not understand this situation. Indeed, to replace the T-55, the T-62/64/72/80 without letters and with letters, also in "unmeasured" quantities, have long been developed, manufactured and "hardened".

[Normal ok]

And how much they laughed at the APU about the use of the BMP-1.

[Vadim237]

That's just the guys who go to them during the hostilities will not be funny, the war in Ukraine and Syria clearly showed that the thickness of the armor and the active defense systems - alas BMP 1 and BMP 2 - do not possess either . During the storming of Grozny, about 200 infantry fighting vehicles were lost - that’s your efficiency. Therefore, the modernization of the BMP 1 pure hack - just to save money, the result will be deplorable

[Seraphimamur]

This is not a lack of technology but a lack of intelligence of commanders. The task of the BMP is to deliver personnel to the battlefield and support it with fire weapons, rather than using it as an assault vehicle. It is clear that no one canceled the ambush and mines.

[Vadim237]

Now this is a lack of technology.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Vadim237

Now this is a lack of technology.

Was this an imperfect technique? Or is the problem of non-compliance with the charter?

[Vadim237]

If the memory does not change, there is the position where the BMP stood 3 fired from mortars, hit the boxes with shells - and hello BMP.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Vadim237

If the memory does not change, there is the position where the BMP stood 3 fired from mortars, hit the boxes with shells - and hello BMP.

Well, let's remember the battle on January 3, 1995, when one of the companies of the MSB 74 naval brigade on 5 BMP-3 almost completely died in the area of ​​st. Chekhov and the hospital complex.

[Jora 2]

The losses there were large and for their improper use. On a narrow city street, and so will not save if you drive him without the support of infantry.

[Vadim237]

Yes, even the tanks lacked explosive plates in the remote sensing. If Arenas were standing on tanks at that time, they wouldn’t have lost a single one from RPG and LNG calculations.

[Ross_54]

Two people in the crew. In a firing reactive armored capsule. And more automation.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Modernization is much cheaper and faster. “Thunder” is a modernized SPG-9 - both the caliber is small and the range. It’s not economical to write off a huge amount of fully operational “armor”, which has proved itself in Syria.

In the top ten! We must proceed from the real state of things. First Strategic Missile Forces and Fleet!

[konstantin68]

Quote: rocket757

Those. heavy, lightly armored, voracious infantry cart with limited combat use?

Tomorrow you will need to transport 40 people. What do you prefer to have on hand: one "Mercedes" or 5-6 "cents". Here is the answer to you, in any case, today.

[rocket757]

Do not be stupid!
That’s how I got it! And you are pointing in which direction?

[Vadim237]

Personnel needed alive and unharmed

[rocket757]

I agree to all 100%.
The next generation needs technology, with other performance characteristics.
How are the barmalei armed now, and the line troops of the alleged enemy?
Those. prepare for the next, type, war! To develop a concept, tactics, at least approximate, to prepare appropriate technology. The upgraded BMP 1 will fit into the wars of the future, then go ahead and with the song, upgrade, spend the money! If not? Send her to where it will cost something!

[dDYHA]

BMP-1 was made for one purpose. To overcome the infantry infected areas from nuclear strikes and die later defenders. This car is not for local war. It is created for the 3rd world. And from her everyone wants to have a good sense. There is no sense in ordinary conflicts. At least pack it.

[Seraphimamur]

Correct solution. Now it is already clear that in the field we will fight with terrorists for whom such equipment will also go. If we encounter amers or geyropeytsami at the level of strategic weapons (nuclear), this applies to the Chinese. Conclusion: the development of cannon tanks is undeniably cool but more for sale to supplement the budget. Further, as the Second World War shows, when the war of attrition is going on, we need a simple to operate (for 18 year old boys), cheap to manufacture and maintainable in the field equipment. All new developments like Armata, etc. do not meet this requirement. Therefore, I’ll repeat all new developments more for business and muscle games, real combat can also be carried out using equipment developed in the USSR and God forbid it comes to the use of hypersonic rockets with atomic engines with thermonuclear warheads. By the way, are the Americans developing a new tank?

[Vadim237]

The barmalei have a whole range of anti-tank systems - this IFV if it collides with them will turn into metal-farsh. In Syria, they have already lost more than 1500 along with the crews.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Vadim237

In Syria, they have already lost more than 1500 along with crews

Burn, napalm

[Vadim237]

There is no napalm - they are harnessed from RPGs and anti-tank systems - of which in Syria the militants in bulk.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Vadim237

they are harnessed from RPGs and ATGMs - of which in Syria have militants in bulk

And what, you already

Quote: Vadim237

... more than 1500 ... together with the crews

Vadim, you ... a miracle

[Vadim237]

But most of all there TOW 2A burns

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Vadim237

But most of all there TOW 2A burns

And here you are
This is necessary well:

Quote: Vadim237

In Syria, they have already lost more than 1500 along with crews

What you ... bloodthirsty

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Vadim237

In Syria, they have already lost more than 1500 along with the crews.

Ta vi sho, and from what iron did you say that?
Well, as a poisoned halberd - but nothing almost 7 years is the war going on?

[Vadim237]

"That shaw, and from what iron did you say that?" This is evidenced by the fact that Russia supplies armored vehicles to the Syrian troops - whether the Syrian troops already have it, or in such a state that it can’t fight anymore.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: Vadim237

This is evidenced by the fact that Russia supplies armored vehicles to the Syrian troops - whether the Syrian troops already have it, or in such a state that it can’t fight anymore.

Well, they “burned” and “written off due to extreme wear of the material part”, as it were, as they used to say in Odessa, two big differences.

[Jora 2]

and why not. when you can make money on this old. It would be foolish to simply melt them.

[konstantin68]

Quote: captain

Quote: Teberii

The gun is good, but a narrow application, it is necessary to modernize. In this case, the entire park is not necessary. There is an opportunity to earn money.

BMP-1 in the army called the grenade launcher on wheels. The firing range of the 73mm Thunder gun was 1300 m, and the direct firing of a 765m cumulative projectile. LNG-9 had the same range. The elevation angle of the gun was very small. In battles in urban conditions and in the mountains, this was a significant drawback. I won’t talk much about ATGM “Baby”, but in order to learn how to shoot a gunner-operator from this ATGM, a special selection of people and long training were required. The loading mechanism was very moody and charged, as a rule, manually. During manual charging, no one controlled the battlefield, the gunner was also the commander of the car .. Two tanks in the rear landing doors are generally a monster. If the BMP became a roll on the nose, then the infantry through the rear doors could not land.
But there were very positive advantages; reliability, excellent maneuverability, good maneuverability, ease of operation, easy driving training and good maintainability. I will not write about communications; no literary words.

Very sensible. I would like to add this to the little things: during sharp maneuvers, caterpillars constantly flew, with an explosion (God forbid) there was practically no chance to survive, not to mention the fact that the car completely lost its course. Personally, I was at a 2-month shooting course for Baby. It’s very difficult to get there, the shell behaves in the air quite intricately. But ... along the BUSV BMP went behind the chain of infantry and tanks, which virtually eliminated the defeat. All major losses took place when this equipment was used for other purposes, such as assault and fire support of infantry in settlements, use in highlands and as a combat unit in an attack. Given the current problems with the financing of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, to refuse the BMP-1 is stupid.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Vadim237

In Syria, they have already lost more than 1500 along with crews

Burn, napalm

100500 according to updated data

[Vadim237]

I brought this very minimum, only in 2013 513 tanks and more than 400 infantry fighting vehicles were lost.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Vadim237

only in 2013 513 tanks and more than 400 infantry fighting vehicles lost

And all, of course, due to the lack of KAZ, og

[Vadim237]

80 percent for sure.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Vadim237

80 percent for sure

Why not 95?
No, Vadim ... I, of course, understand that in Russia intelligence and wealth rarely go together, but so much ...
Okay. I'm tired of you already. Go on ... have fun

[Vadim237]

My intellect is fine, but you have a grandfather, you have problems with him in old age.

[Vadim237]

This clearly confirms that there is nothing to be done for BMP and Tanks without KAZ in such conflicts.

[Hiller]

Glory1974,
However, given that you could not correctly decrypt the abbreviation, you probably do not understand what is at stake. And there are no links to documents with a signature stamp on the network.
“The evening has ceased to be languid” I answer: so you haven’t had any "static data" -developed into "documents with a signature stamp". Normal chatter - no more. There are no links either. The statement “what does the TTX have to do with it” says only one thing: you have no idea about the subject of the discussion. With the reading of the abbreviation, I’m all right ... so that “there’s nothing to blame for the mirror, the face is crooked ..” .. and with the word "was" - I’m sure the same thing .. The rest - I’m no longer interested.

[Hiller]

Glory1974,
"the evening has ceased to be languid." You came here to play "professional" - which you NEVER were !. As, I am sure, in the Caucasus, too (judging by the style of communication). I answer on points: 1. There are 3 times more "statistics" about losses in the Caucasus of units on infantry fighting vehicles than on APCs you could not have. There are no such documents, at least in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. 2. The "statistical data" you have grown into "documents under the bar." So what is your statement based on? 3. "Analysis of the database in the TFR from 1994 to 2004 GS". How did you get access to the vulture document? Decide already (statistics or a document of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation) and not "wag". 4. Abbreviations must be able to use. DB (combat duty is an accepted reduction, not military operations) TFR is the Investigative Committee of Russia (and not the North Caucasus region) of the General Staff (most often it is the Gryazev-Shipunov air gun), and the General Staff is written in the reduction for the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces. Of course, you didn’t have to see the headquarters documents in your eyes - not just to prepare them. 5. In general, you are not interesting to me. I’m sure that here you’ll have to hear more than once about your statements ... Farewell.