Military Review

Melkashki - people!

236
The Kalashnikov Concern took the initiative to amend the Russian law “On Weapons", Which are designed to streamline the" weapons "regulatory framework, to make it more logical and modern.



In addition, they are aimed at expanding the rights of arms owners, and, accordingly, expanding the civilian arms market.
One of the most interesting is the proposals to allow selling long-barreled rifled weapons of caliber .22 LR, in common parlance “melkashki”, without a five-year experience of owning a smooth-bore weapon.

Recall that according to the current law, small-caliber rifles 22 LR belong to rifle weapons, the acquisition of which can be allowed only after five years of irreproachable (without any violations of the law and rules) possession of smooth-bore long-barreled hunting weapons.

This proposal of the Kalashnikov Concern looks quite logical and reasonable.

Recall that until the middle of the 60s of the last century, 22LR rifles were freely sold in sports stores, like sports equipment. Indeed, although the little one is an excellent tool for commercial and amateur hunting of fur-bearing animals, it is primarily a sporting weapon, ideal for competition, postrelushek, for shooting training and maintaining shooting skills. Minimal recoil makes this weapon ideal for classes with children and teenagers.
In other words, for many, if not for most 22LR users, this is exactly sports equipment. A purchased "for experience" double-barreled shotgun or "pump" will not really be used. In this sense, it is hardly correct to force people who need a little thing to acquire a much more formidable weapon — shotguns, which, strictly speaking, do not need anything, thereby increasing the number of weapons at the hands of citizens. And at the expense of trunks unnecessary for them!

To this we can add that smooth-bore hunting rifles, which are acquired immediately, without “test experience” are much more lethal weapons - wounds inflicted by shotgun or bullet shells of a shotgun 12, 16 or 20 caliber in most cases lead to death or severe disability. In terms of energy, the 22LR bullet is weaker than even one carcassin, of which there are several pieces in a smooth-bore cartridge.

Although technically small-caliber rifles are rifled, their effective range does not exceed the capabilities of the smoothbore.

In addition, the 22LR ring ignition cartridges, where the sleeve and the capsule are one, cannot be reassembled. In other words, the “little girl” is the most “safe” if this term is applicable to a weapon.

Note that in addition to the usual small-caliber "bolts" and "self-charging", small-caliber "clones" of AK are produced, which can be successfully used for primary rifle training.

This proposal, if accepted, will significantly expand the market for civilian weapons, by increasing the “target” sales of this, primarily sports weapons.

In total, the Kalashnikov Concern has proposed more than 15 amendments, a significant part of which are focused on sporting weapons and the use of civilian weapons in sports.

In particular, there is a proposal to add practical shooting to sports, the occupation of which is the basis for the purchase of rifles.

Other proposals include removing the restriction on the capacity of stores, reducing the length of service for possessing smooth-bore weapons before acquiring a rifled from five to three years, increasing the permitted number of weapons from long-barreled shotguns and rifled to 10 units instead of five, and even allocating five “places” for small-caliber weapons.

Note that all these amendments are in the interests of conscious and responsible owners - athletes, hunters and collectors who know why they need a weapon and know how to handle it.

All of them, of course, are aimed at expanding the “client base” of the Kalashnikov Concern and other manufacturers of civilian weapons. However, it would be wrong to see in this only the desire for profit. The fact is that, thanks to the proceeds from the sale of rifles and carbines, their manufacturers manage to retain personnel and the necessary production volumes in the absence of military or foreign orders, as well as to develop new models.

So, in the "holy nineties" Izhevsk and Vyatka-Polyansky plants survived, largely due to the production of civilian weapons.

It is not known which of the proposed amendments will be adopted, but the fact of the appearance in the country of a “gun lobby” capable of defending the interests of gunsmiths and owners of civilian weapons - athletes, hunters and collectors, can only be welcomed.
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236 comments
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  1. Vard
    Vard 16 March 2018 06: 31
    +13
    A small thing is also pistols ... For training shooting a very good thing ...
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 16 March 2018 11: 00
      +4
      Small things are also pistols.

      pistols are a short barrel, another category. As I understand it, there is no question about them.
    2. iouris
      iouris 16 March 2018 20: 53
      +13
      As long as the government is afraid of its population, there are no prospects for a "union of shooters". Here we are not America.
      1. vkfriendly
        vkfriendly 17 March 2018 04: 09
        +10
        The authorities are well aware that in the hands of the country are 7.5 million legal trunks and 34 million illegal. So there’s nothing to talk about. Allow small things to add a few hundred thousand over the course of several years. And any toughening will lead to the growth of illegal trunks, which we have already gone through in the post-war period.
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 17 March 2018 12: 41
        +11
        It will be more correct to say that it is not the government that is afraid, but individual officials, with whom it will be easier to settle scores with the help of the short-barre if they show lawlessness towards citizens. In general, the government is not afraid if it allows the population to acquire multi-shot smoothbore guns, long-range rifled semi-automatic rifles with optical sights, which differ little from military ones.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 March 2018 18: 50
          +9
          what power Not afraid armed men (provided that the power is strong) Ferguson showed exemplary. of a huge the number of weapons - there were no cases of shooting at the US National Guard. Everyone understood everything perfectly and there was no one who wanted to get a bullet in the head from the military-minded shoot-people ...
          And then there are weapons - like "shoe polish in a shoe polish factory" © Prostokvashino

          If Yanukovych would feel the power and give the order to the Golden eagle to shoot to kill, now there would be another Ukraine

          In 1991, we weren’t able to take responsibility and sign the order, and that’s all ...
          v1993 had the will of EBN, Pasha Mercedes immediately moved the troops, fired, everyone understood everything and silence
      3. - = ANTRAX = -
        - = ANTRAX = - 26 March 2018 05: 53
        0
        in your America, after school every week after school. It came to what reason "the government is afraid"?
    3. Nick
      Nick 19 March 2018 23: 00
      +3
      Quote: Vard
      A small thing is also pistols ... For training shooting a very good thing ...

      Yes, Margolin Systems for example. Exercised with him. Good thing
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 16 March 2018 06: 32
    +14
    One of the most interesting is the proposal to allow the sale of long-barreled .22 LR caliber rifles, colloquially “small things”, without five-year experience with smooth-bore weapons
    insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics. inadequate people maim, they shoot at cars and cats ...
    1. Waltasar
      Waltasar 16 March 2018 06: 54
      +39
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      I would forbid pneumatics

      A good slingshot and ball from the bearing can also do things.
      Although no, they themselves can’t. All man does. A moron who shoots on trains, he will still find a bunch of activities for himself, no matter what is in his hands. First of all, we need to work with the population. The only question is how.
      Is it interesting that ballistic examinations are carried out to the little ones?
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 07: 01
        +8
        Quote: Waltasar
        A good slingshot and ball from the bearing ...

        ... or a bullet from PM. I had fun in childhood, I remember.
        Quote: Waltasar
        Interestingly, the ballistic examinations are carried out to the little ones?

        GYYY laughing laughing laughing
        Hardly. In the absence of a whole (uncut) bullet, in the general case yes
        1. Begemot
          Begemot 16 March 2018 08: 24
          +15
          Hardly.
          Examination is underway. Previously, once in 5 years there was a control shooting, now, thank God once in 15, otherwise such a hemorrhoid was carrying weapons around the city, hanging around in a queue in a rotten basement for hours. A simple resident does not need a crayon at all. I have 20 for years, I’ve been in a safe, bought a load on a carbine, for the whole time I didn’t shoot a pack of cartridges, and draw up documents every 5 years. Shooting clubs, perhaps, can be purchased for youth training, only in our country this business is not developed, like everything else, it is regulated to death.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 09: 28
            +6
            Quote: Begemot
            The examination is carried out

            This is of course great.
            But if I want to make it so that there is nothing to "examine" - I will. Lehko.
            Lead bullet, enough knife and a little, um, fantasy wink
          2. Mr Catofei
            Mr Catofei 24 March 2018 13: 26
            0
            I don’t know about you, but in November 2017 I reissued my combination, there was not a single person at the shooting, only I was. In a conversation with the inspector, he said that no more than 2-3 people arrive a day. And one more thing, nowhere else have there been such pleasant and adequate employees as in the Stavropol LRO, well, or I'm just so lucky
        2. novel66
          novel66 16 March 2018 09: 45
          +8
          .. or a bullet from PM. I had fun in childhood, I remember.
          hi we had the same Soviet childhood, the effectiveness of the bullet from the PM, in my opinion, is higher
          1. kuznec
            kuznec 21 March 2018 05: 01
            +1
            You lived smartly! In my case, these were 16 nuts.
            1. novel66
              novel66 21 March 2018 07: 48
              0
              there was a shooting range nearby, where the cops were shooting back, and there was no problem picking up half a pocket of PM bullets. but to dig deeper - there are already Nagnovsky, TTshnye there. since even the line of Kalash 5.45 was opened, it was surprising that some bullets lay across
        3. Monarchist
          Monarchist 16 March 2018 17: 22
          +4
          Golovan Jack, we didn’t have bullets PM (had no idea about them), and we used nuts cut into two parts
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 17: 46
            +8
            Quote: Monarchist
            halved nuts used

            Well, the nut in the slingshot is “our everything” (c)
            Not everyone had bullets, and there were few of them - it was necessary to dig a parapet for targets at the shooting range in order to get them.
            There were many who wanted, but few bullets request
            But the bullet is definitely better than any nut yes
      2. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 16 March 2018 07: 42
        +60
        . I would forbid pneumatics

        And I would have “forbidden” people — they not only kill everyone, all living creatures on the planet, but also pollute the environment, well, they write all kinds of muin ...
      3. would
        would 16 March 2018 09: 12
        +5
        Is it interesting that ballistic examinations are carried out to the little ones?


        Of course, this is an absolutely normal rifled weapon with all the attached unique traces on the pool and the sleeve. And they’ll shoot at the cartridge case.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 March 2018 12: 05
          +3
          And what is the probability of identifying a bullet, say, when it hits the forehead? 40 percent? There, after all, a dance turns out.
          1. would
            would 16 March 2018 12: 18
            +8
            The issue is complex and cannot be discussed in a vacuum, without a specific bullet. And it is highly desirable that a specialist with many years of experience who explores such bullets speaks about this. As far as I know, a bullet even flattened into a pancake has unique trasological features, that is, in theory it is possible to identify a bullet. But this is only in theory.

            With regard to this issue, it was recalled that lead shots released from a smooth barrel also have unique trace characteristics. And in practice there are even single ones, but cases when, with the help of examination, they proved that it was this fraction that was released from this particular gun.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 16 March 2018 14: 59
              +3
              Quote: rait
              that lead shots released from a smooth barrel also have unique trace characteristics.

              I don’t understand this.
              Quote: rait
              And in practice there are even single ones, but cases when, with the help of examination, they proved that it was this fraction that was released from this particular gun.

              Rather, the composition of the fraction was determined.
              1. would
                would 17 March 2018 00: 21
                +2
                No, it’s exactly in the footsteps of a smooth barrel on a fraction. The trunk is not perfectly smooth. It is impossible to determine from which specific barrel the shot was made only by composition.

                I don’t understand this.


                Therefore, we are not forensic hi
                1. Svidetel 45
                  Svidetel 45 17 March 2018 12: 49
                  +3
                  It is unlikely that it will be possible to identify the fraction, especially since in our time containers are used or, in extreme cases, a soft wrapper for the shot shell. the barrel of the gun cannot leave marks on pellets in any way.
                  1. would
                    would 17 March 2018 15: 21
                    0
                    Including therefore the same cases are rare.
          2. martin-159
            martin-159 21 March 2018 06: 04
            +2
            For lead bullet cartridges, only cartridges are identified. Traces of rifling are not saved on the pool.
      4. Dedall
        Dedall 16 March 2018 21: 02
        +3
        And how will you spend them if our domestic lead-antimony bullets are deformed? But with imported ones, in which the cupronickel shell may work. As for the slingshots, the speed of the ball’s departure from the normal “boy’s” slingshot is 120 meters per second. With a ball weight of 15 grams, this will be 337,5 Joules of energy. I would say that is very decent!
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 17 March 2018 07: 30
          +4
          Quote: Dedall
          I would say that is very decent!
          (0,015×(120^2))÷2=108Дж.
          337,5 is already PM.
          108 is also decent.
      5. vkfriendly
        vkfriendly 17 March 2018 04: 19
        +1
        Morons are and will be in any country and fighting this is useless.
      6. va3610
        va3610 17 March 2018 13: 47
        0
        Of course, rifling on the pool remains.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 16 March 2018 07: 01
      +27
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      . I would forbid pneumatics

      I would forbade inadequate! But you can’t remove them with a stroke of the pen.
      And TOZ is a good thing, it stood in my wheelhouse. And Margolin is beyond competition!
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 16 March 2018 07: 21
        +4
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And TOZ is a good thing
        In the photo - Urals.
      2. pomegranate
        pomegranate 16 March 2018 08: 32
        +13
        I would be so kobe ....
        We need to open rifle circles, conduct competitions and start from the lower grades of the school where they will explain to the children, teach them to discipline and
        to develop sports interest !!!
        1. K.A.S.
          K.A.S. 16 March 2018 10: 32
          +2
          discover what bothers you?
          Now there are a lot of clubs, although the price of a shot is horse-drawn. but there will be many and the price will drop!
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 16 March 2018 14: 10
            +9
            Quote: K.A.S.
            but there will be many and the price will drop!
            And there will not be much, as long as the prices are!
            How much do you need to put on training per month only on cartridges? 10000 is enough?
            A little more, and owning an illegal trunk will not be as intense as legal, but woodpeckers in the Duma do not understand! They don’t understand that absolutely any legal trunk is easier to control than illegal, even with the simplest legalization (selling for rights, for example).
            What is the point of doing a medical certificate for a weapon separately, for example, if the specialists have the same rights?
            Stupidity and insanity!
        2. alex-cn
          alex-cn 16 March 2018 10: 35
          +5
          And mugs with shooting galleries should be affordable for everyone, and prices should not bite there.
          And as for the free sale of small things - I would have thought, because of poaching. Low noise will move many.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 16 March 2018 14: 17
            +3
            Quote: alex-cn
            due to poaching
            Who to shoot? Protein?
            And at what distance 20K is not audible?
            1. alex-cn
              alex-cn 16 March 2018 19: 17
              +1
              20-shot on a pond or clean place - for 3 km, that's for sure, checked, in the forest - a kilometer and a half. but as for poaching, I know those who shot at capercaillie and goats for 100 meters ... they got caught, though in the end, but still ...
              1. Cetron
                Cetron 17 March 2018 00: 00
                0
                From the bicycle pump (housing) and starter housings for fluorescent lamps (luminescent), silencers were made for small things - nothing was heard at 5 meters.
              2. BARKHAN
                BARKHAN 17 March 2018 00: 21
                +11
                Quote: alex-cn
                who is capercaillie and goat

                According to the capercaillie, hunting rules are allowed from the rifled one. Just like the capercaillie is wild boar. Paragraph 53.3. And only at the time indicated in paragraph 41. (In autumn).
                For home goats, no.
                At the moment, according to the new edition of the rules on hunting, there are no restrictions on the calibers used in hunting for different species.
                Any restrictions on places in the regions are unauthorized and have been challenged more than once in the courts. Nowhere else is this written in the subjects, as it contradicts federal rules.
                At the moment, the restriction and adequacy (or absence) is only in the head of hunters. Anyone who wants to go with a melcan to a bear or bill, I would not stop ... normal such natural selection.
                I carefully read the article and comments ... I agree with each item of the proposals of the concern. It’s time for the men to make responsible earners and warriors. And it’s inadequate to cut down the forest without pity. Why should I be a law-abiding citizen because of some inadequate tricks?
                Regarding the hostility to weapons of some colleagues on the site to weapons and the fear of their contents at home (especially expressed by Andrei Yurievich). If you are afraid of panic weapons and armed people ... it may make sense to see a doctor in psychiatry or a psychologist. ..? It is possible that something in your soul is not purely and latently criminal, does not allow you to be armed confidently and within the framework of the law? So why should I, being healthy and sober, in good memory and with a good reputation, suffer from problems with the psyche of some citizens with a persecution mania?
                But maybe all of these “colleagues” have trouble with the law, which also does not allow them to have firearms? And they frustrate their envy and anger at the owners of the weapons.
                I don’t understand anything in gynecology ... therefore, I don’t go into this area to discuss. I also don’t want people who do not have weapons to discuss any questions about weapons at all, all the same, that milkmaids discuss regulations in the nuclear industry. ..
                1. alex-cn
                  alex-cn 17 March 2018 04: 26
                  0
                  For that matter, in some European countries there are restrictions on caliber and ammunition for hunting. it is forbidden to use cartridges of less than 8 mm and a sleeve shorter than 40 mm when hunting moose and red deer, small pieces are allowed only for training shooting. A wood grouse from a small bullet for 50 meters doesn’t fight to death with every shot, although I didn’t have the chance to try groundhog cartridges, they are probably better ... and XNUMX well from a shotgun. And on the account of the fact that roe deer are called a goat in many places, you probably do not know?
                  1. BARKHAN
                    BARKHAN 17 March 2018 10: 36
                    +3
                    Quote: alex-cn
                    For that matter, in some European countries there are restrictions on caliber and ammunition for hunting. it is forbidden to use cartridges of less than 8 mm and a sleeve shorter than 40 mm when hunting moose and red deer, small pieces are allowed only for training shooting. A wood grouse from a small bullet for 50 meters doesn’t fight to death with every shot, although I didn’t have the chance to try groundhog cartridges, they are probably better ... and XNUMX well from a shotgun.

                    I just told you how things actually are according to the rules of hunting in our country. An adequate hunter will decide for himself what to go hunting with in order to be sure to get game.
                    Since we are talking about melkans, that is, about .22LR cartridges with a direct shot at 50-60 m (which calls into question about confident shooting at 100m) ... so there are also 22WMR (direct shot 90m) and 17HMR ( direct shot 120m). As you can see the melcan melkana strife.
                    Personally, I don’t see a place for small things for my hunt. My minimum (for a fox, a hare, a beaver, etc.) is 7,62x39. Up to 150 kg per eye. Next 308WIN.
                    Quote: alex-cn
                    And on the account of the fact that roe deer are called a goat in many places, you probably do not know?

                    Actually, apparently having a 20-year hunting experience, probably in the know ... It was a joke, I'm sorry that I did not use the emoticon.
                    1. alex-cn
                      alex-cn 17 March 2018 14: 29
                      +2
                      Honestly, somehow WMR is not associated with 22 lr, it’s so different from them in its characteristics ... but I had no business with it. And the article concerns the classic small-bullet.
              3. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 19 March 2018 09: 54
                +1
                from PSP air up to 80 meters there is no difference with small things, only sound is not heard in windy weather and ducks do not even fly away
    3. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 16 March 2018 07: 02
      +30
      In any case, rationality and calculation are needed. You have the logic of FSB and MVD officials. Give them the will to ban everything at all, even cold weapons. Environmentalists have broken the law banning the dragging of hunting dogs to animals, thereby fulfilling their soldering, and showing importance. And how the fishermen will get out, it's their business. Insanity is with the authorities with whom they infect the people. I remember those years when the TOZovka was sold in the economic store without any documents as goods. Cartridges could be taken for free in shooting galleries, how they were written off according to the statute of limitations, or purchased for a penny in the Hunting Communities, or in the same stores. And the police at the same time walked in the patrol through the streets without weapons, and the people respected them. There will not be any relief, but tightening control is not far off. They are going to legalize locking devices for triggers during transportation and storage. And they want to pick up rifled weapons in the departments of the internal affairs department for storage during the off-season. In general, lawlessness will produce.
      1. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 16 March 2018 07: 16
        +2
        Agree
      2. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 16 March 2018 07: 20
        +3
        Golden Times
      3. Simargl
        Simargl 16 March 2018 07: 30
        +10
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        I remember those years when the TOZovka was sold at the economic store without any documents as a commodity.
        Back in 1992, they dragged TOZ-8 from school to school, in the open. Even the shutters did not take.
        Now try to get this way.
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        At the same time, policemen walked on patrol along the streets without weapons, and people respected them.
        Criminals too.
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        They are going to legalize locking devices on the triggers during transportation and storage.
        Well, this is not very bad: if you let the barrel out of sight, it’s better to lock it even for your own peace of mind. Another thing - it would not work out that it would be necessary to remove this constipation before a shot on a hunt. And then some have to explain the difference between a loaded weapon and a loaded one.
        1. d1975
          d1975 16 March 2018 20: 38
          +3
          You are not confused in time? In our Kuban, for example, all the small things and AK scientists were taken back in the year 90. But from the sixth grade we shot from everything that is possible. Here you just need a normal law. When we introduced the law 15 -39 KZ, everyone laughed that it was impossible to walk after ten, and at 18 it was already possible to go to war. The law is good, but if it wasn’t invented, they themselves would break it.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 17 March 2018 07: 23
            +2
            Quote: d1975
            You are not confused in time?
            No. In 1990, I just came to that city.
      4. SERGUS
        SERGUS 16 March 2018 10: 37
        +5
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        But strengthening control is just around the corner. They are going to legalize locking devices for triggers during transportation and storage. But they want to take rifled weapons to the departments of the internal affairs department for storage during off-season periods. In general, lawlessness will produce.

        I agree, what small things, if the Russian Guard even wants to register pneumatics? Okay, a short-barrel, but why produce insanity with hunting and sporting weapons, or is the government afraid of its own people? I do not understand all this request
        1. Alber
          Alber 16 March 2018 20: 34
          +6
          Quote: SERGUS
          Why produce senility with hunting and sporting weapons, or is the government afraid of its own people?

          THEN YOU ANSWERED YOURSELF: "SHUTTERING AUTHORITY IS AFRAID OF OWN PEOPLE ...
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 17 March 2018 07: 21
            +9
            Quote: Alber
            SHEETY AUTHORITY IS AFRAID OF OWN PEOPLE
            If a cowardly power, fearing its own people, tries to limit possession legal trunks then it stupid power!
            Only will be inadequate bring down someone from the legal trunk, and inadequate need to be screened out - this is clear to everyone.
            Military units have a priori more powerful weapons, civilians can’t cope with it.
            Simply put, wild restrictions in legal weapons - the result of delirium of the ignorant!
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 19 March 2018 09: 58
              0
              a friend of mine, a professor of law, said - crime is a normal reaction of normal people to abnormal conditions of existence. The proportion of criminal patients is 3 percent.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 19 March 2018 11: 39
                +2
                Quote: aybolyt678
                crime is a normal reaction of normal people to abnormal conditions of existence
                It is necessary to hang it in a thought.
                And check each initiative for compliance.
      5. Glory1974
        Glory1974 16 March 2018 11: 03
        +5
        A rifle they want to pick up in the departments of the police department, for storage

        The police are not related to weapons. This function passed to the Russian Guard. Security companies that used to hand over weapons to the police department can no longer do this. The police department does not do this, and the Russian Guard has no premises.
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 17 March 2018 00: 29
          +4
          Quote: glory1974
          The police are not related to weapons

          Has. In the person of a district police officer. He, as before, is obliged to check storage conditions at least once a year.
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 17 March 2018 09: 42
            0
            Has. In the person of a district police officer. He, as before, is obliged to check storage conditions at least once a year.

            As far as I know, district police officers were obliged to do this for the transitional period of reform. As before, they had to check the storage of weapons, issue certificates for the purchase, etc. Since 2018, the Russian Guard has been obliged to do this.
    4. Mik13
      Mik13 16 March 2018 07: 24
      +38
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics. inadequate people maim, they shoot at cars and cats ...

      The most important thing is to ban kitchen knives. Since it is with kitchen knives that they most often kill. How long will we tolerate the kitchen genocide of the Russian people? But the producers of the terrible cleaver, which are supposedly needed for cooking, are really only interested in money. damned capitalists do not care about the wave of violence in which their products collect their bloody tribute ...
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 16 March 2018 07: 55
        +18
        Quote: Mik13
        The most important thing is to ban kitchen knives.

        Totally agree with you! And also urgently prohibit the production of pans and rolling pins and immediately prohibit the supply of poisonous gas to our gas stoves, leading to mass destruction of the population!
        Lord legislators! Do not hold us to primates!
        1. SERGUS
          SERGUS 16 March 2018 10: 40
          +9
          Quote: Boris55
          and immediately prohibit the supply of poison gas to our gas stoves

          He is also explosive !!! And such cases have recently become more frequent! Urgently switch to firewood!
          1. Roma 1977
            Roma 1977 16 March 2018 15: 16
            +7
            You can’t switch to firewood. From logs the wounds are even more serious.
      2. novel66
        novel66 16 March 2018 09: 57
        +17
        Nooo! cancel motor transport - that’s where the instrument of genocide is!
        1. Alber
          Alber 16 March 2018 20: 38
          +1
          Quote: novel xnumx
          Nooo! cancel motor transport - that’s where the instrument of genocide is!


          Yeah! in short everything is in the woods or in the mountains, in the caves. the benefits of civilization lead to genocide of the population ...
        2. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 17 March 2018 00: 31
          +3
          Quote: novel xnumx
          Nooo! cancel motor transport - that’s where the instrument of genocide is!

          Roma, if abortion is prohibited ... that’s where the genocide is.
      3. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 17 March 2018 13: 00
        +3
        That's it, but you still have to ban the sale of gasoline, because you can splash out of a flask and strike a lighter, but there have already been such cases, pans also raise a question, and most of all, cars submitted by statistics can be limited to about 30 thousand a year sale, let's move on horse-drawn transport?
        1. Severok
          Severok 18 March 2018 17: 00
          +1
          What a thought! After all, potassium permanganate was banned for sale, so let's continue the logic: gasoline, kerosene, white spirit, hydrogen peroxide (generally a component of rocket fuel), and then we’ll take over the reagents in schools and universities! And what? After all, they can take advantage of this trrrst !?
          PROTECT DO NOT PUT !!!
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 19 March 2018 10: 09
            0
            Quote: Severok
            PROTECT DO NOT PUT !!!

            I will add thermometers - to the shoes of the enemy of mercury, and after a couple of months, terminal renal failure with a fatal, naturally, outcome. Just to not notice that the heels are black.
    5. Boris55
      Boris55 16 March 2018 07: 36
      +18
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics

      And I would forbid both pneumatics and traumatism, as tools that destroy the instincts of safe handling of weapons, accustom people to the fact that you can shoot at anyone and you will not have anything for it.
      But the trinkets would be allowed by the short-barrel too, of course, according to the relevant law. As long as there is a threat to our peaceful coexistence, every citizen of the country must be able to protect it.
      1. haron
        haron 16 March 2018 08: 37
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        And I would forbid both pneumatics and traumatism, as tools that destroy the instincts of safe handling of weapons, accustom people to the fact that you can shoot at anyone and you will not have anything for it.

        Very correct thought.
        1. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat 16 March 2018 09: 39
          +12
          Yes, yes, everything must be prohibited. And the Internet is the same, here (on the Internet) the extremists communicate, and mobile communications, the terrorists are talking on it and so on. How they like to ban everything in Russia. In the USA, in spite of the periodic shooting of the two-legged by the same two-legged, the society has the intelligence to defend the “second amendment” of its constitution. And in Russia, "prohibitions" everywhere, so it’s easier for them.
          1. BARKHAN
            BARKHAN 17 March 2018 00: 38
            +5
            Quote: Monster_Fat
            society is smart enough to uphold the “second amendment” of its constitution. And in Russia, "prohibitions" everywhere, so it’s easier for them.

            I envy the Americans in this. I personally find it humiliating to prove every five years that I am not an alcoholic, not a drug addict and not a psycho ... because they have a database that is hard to see. You just need to cut loot from law-abiding citizens.
            Monster_Fat, recently found out that the word "democracy" is never mentioned in the American constitution ... Is that true?
            1. Monster_Fat
              Monster_Fat 17 March 2018 08: 27
              +2
              Yes it's true. Well, what kind of "democracy" could be in the 18th century? Here are some interesting facts about the American constitution: http://www.islu.ru/en/interesnye-fakty-o-konstitu
              tsii-ssha
      2. NN52
        NN52 16 March 2018 13: 26
        +16
        Boris55
        Something I did not understand your promise to ban pneumatics ....
        It all depends on the person..
        For example, I am not a hunter, but I love weapons, they instilled them from childhood ...
        And just instilled this love to the eldest, and the youngest now vaccinate my son ..
        Therefore, two air rifles, one crossman with a cylinder, reloading is simpler, the other with a breaker optics, gama hunter 440 (slightly modified ......) and the classics of the Yal under the PM pistol (cylinder).
        We shoot with all the precautions at the cottage or fishing ...
        And the pneumatics, refined with the mind, is in no way inferior to the small things, especially with heavy bullets ...
        Therefore, if a person, then he will throw a stone on the train .... He doesn’t need pneumatics or small things for this ...
        LET ALL BE FORBIDDEN! And we will sell stones and knives under licenses ...
        1. tracer
          tracer 16 March 2018 16: 03
          +1
          If you had the opportunity to buy the weapon that you like and need (with the exception of military weapons). You would not redo anything. Moreover, this is not entirely legal. And be careful with the statements (just in case).
          AKM can be bought semi-automatic and legally it is equal to TOZ 78 PARADOX !!!!
          1. NN52
            NN52 16 March 2018 16: 26
            +8
            tracer
            I mean set the optics, set the picatinny rail below and the bipods are good.
            And what did you think about?))))))
            Jouli nizyayayaya)))))
          2. Simargl
            Simargl 17 March 2018 07: 37
            +1
            Quote: tracer
            Moreover, this is not entirely legal.
            It is illegal to climb into automation, the barrel bore, put a silencer, thermal imager and shorten! Everything else - as many souls as you like!
      3. Dimon19661
        Dimon19661 16 March 2018 14: 50
        +3
        What years have you lived ??? Pneumatics for your information is not only MP-60, there are many models with much larger calibers and energy that are quite successfully used in hunting big game. Do you at least take an interest in the subject of discussion ...
    6. PPD
      PPD 16 March 2018 11: 28
      +3
      And how many people died from knives, ban all knives, but do not forget the axes and saws!
      And how many cases of beating with fists and legs. All chop off just in case.
      And all sorts of sticks, cut down everything, let the desert be. But no one and no-no.
      So here you are inadequate !.
    7. Shaska
      Shaska 16 March 2018 17: 22
      +1
      Well, if you are responsible for yourself, then yeah ...
      Going abroad and proving who is the best is a sport.
      Shooting at cats is crazy.
      If you have cat-arrows before your eyes - this does not mean that the sport must be "kept and not let go, but somehow it didn’t work out" ...
      Soon our generation will grow up, which, in general, before the battle will need to be trained in the use of weapons (God forbid, of course).
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 19 March 2018 10: 14
        0
        Quote: Shaska
        Soon our generation will grow up, which, in general, before the battle will need to be trained in the use of weapons (God forbid, of course).

        In Chechnya, for example, there will never be such a generation,
    8. Dreamboat
      Dreamboat 16 March 2018 18: 41
      +7
      It refers not to a free, but to a licensed sale. Those. one who cannot buy small things buys kalash in 366 TCM or 12 gauge - this is insanity.
      And many people want to go in for sports: sniping, benchrest, warmint, but they cannot ....
      Plus it is absolutely rightly said that 22lr is a caliber for children and women, it allows them to be involved in shooting sports without unnecessary burdens from recoil and noise.
    9. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 18 March 2018 21: 20
      0
      Allow free possession of weapons - and inadequate will soon end: D Remember how you sang in "Put out the light" on the motive of the "Red Army":

      Today we have held a referendum -
      Everyone was allowed to buy a barrel.
      Quickly launched pistols people -
      No one else lives in Russia.
    10. RUSS
      RUSS 19 March 2018 15: 27
      0
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics as well. inadequate people maim, they shoot at cars and cats.

      In Russia, they kill and maim more often with knives, irons, bricks, bits, etc.
    11. Pavel73
      Pavel73 21 May 2020 16: 06
      0
      Yes it is not necessary to prohibit, but to put in control, that’s all. Everything should be determined not by a rifled barrel, but by the caliber and muzzle energy of a weapon. If you want pneumatics - buy freely, but register. If you want a small thing or a shotgun - get a license, buy and register. If you want a powerful rifled one - get five years of experience with a shotgun or small thing, buy and register.
  3. K.A.S.
    K.A.S. 16 March 2018 07: 16
    +2
    In principle, only responsibility should be tightened against all dog hunters and other inadequate
    1. The Sparkle
      The Sparkle 16 March 2018 08: 17
      +9
      Doghunters are adequate, unlike animal defenders. When a chipped stray dog ​​is tearing a person before your eyes - you will understand that catching stray dogs, their castration and subsequent release into place creates a danger to people and the only way out is to shoot.
      1. Citizen 90
        Citizen 90 16 March 2018 08: 41
        +5
        Only 2 types of dogs rush at people - rabid or those that people have beaten in one way or another. Remember and protect. Shoot more often - they will often rush - it’s more convenient for you, of course. Amuse amusement. moral.

        How many years I live - only those less barking barked. Big ones - which can break - just go past their own business. And so - for a minute - large dogs do not survive on the street = appear there only after being thrown out by negligent owners. Also offer to shoot?
        1. would
          would 16 March 2018 09: 10
          +8
          That is, you say that wolves attack a person because a person beat them before? And not because it’s a natural predatory behavior?
          1. novel66
            novel66 16 March 2018 09: 59
            +9
            wolves rarely attack humans, but dogs that are worse than wolves are smart. scum!
          2. Citizen 90
            Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 34
            0
            dogs as a genus appeared essentially due to domestication. Let people isolate everyone because the ancestors beat each other on the head?
            1. would
              would 16 March 2018 14: 21
              +3
              Let people isolate everyone because the ancestors beat each other on the head?


              And now they’re doing almost that, more precisely, isolating everyone who continues to beat other people on the head and generally poses a danger to others. And that’s logical, that’s right.

              The same should, by definition, apply to dogs that, unlike a person, to put it mildly, not far from their distant ancestors, whoever they were (not the fact that this is a wolf) and still continue to show predator instincts, including to pack and attack to a weak sacrifice. Only if in the wild it is a sick, old or just wounded animal, then in the city are children and old people. And with the increase in the number of flocks, they are quite adult people.
        2. Phoenix_L'vov
          Phoenix_L'vov 16 March 2018 09: 42
          +14
          Tell me, will it become easier for a bitten person to realize that before the flock that attacked him was beaten by people? By the way - your statement is false, dogs attack a person often just like that ...
          1. Citizen 90
            Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 36
            0
            No. The basics of nature. And no pack after sterilization. So yes this moment is false your statement.
        3. Midshipman
          Midshipman 16 March 2018 10: 08
          +11
          What are you saying! And how many cases when a pack of people rush at people and gnaw at death? Just because they decided that it was their territory. So this is what they write about. And if they just bit it, then it would not be considered, but a person - more often than not, a child remains a stutter for life. Yes, for one such child all stray dogs can be shot and it will be justified and humane.
          1. Citizen 90
            Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 31
            0
            How many? I don’t know before sterilization. The news is certainly less common than a drunken hop-stop. I don’t see the flocks after sterilization. 2-3 maximum. Helps keep the problem in check.
            1. Korax71
              Korax71 17 March 2018 00: 22
              0
              In our garage cooperative there is a file of swords, pieces 5. post everything with tags in your ear. We’re not animals, they periodically fed someone as much as they could. Exactly the day until they presented a peasant right next to the garage, brought bones to them, good foot and hands, Yes, and until the emergency room about 10 minutes by car. And I had to solve it, poor thing. It's a pity, the grandfather in our garages already cried, but what to do. The court and women with children go request man even otmazatsya maybe it is not a fact.
              1. would
                would 17 March 2018 06: 32
                +1
                Extremely indicative. First, they feed from pseudo pity, and then the same dogs attack.
        4. Galleon
          Galleon 16 March 2018 10: 29
          +9
          To people with such statements as yours, I would give a bicycle in some Moscow industrial area, and I myself would drive in a car with injury somewhere nearby just in case - suddenly you will not be able to get away from the chase of another pack. At the end of the route, I guarantee that you will change your mind to the opposite and will ask me for this injury.
        5. alex-cn
          alex-cn 16 March 2018 10: 39
          +3
          not so much dogs as owners
          1. Citizen 90
            Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 38
            +1
            that's it. But "people" are sacred. To buy a calf in an apartment, while they are talking about a little one, they tear up a sofa - they threw it out, died on the street. Or such a security fighter shot. In advance. After all, he asked for a small thing, not in his pocket, he wears it for self-defense, but he preliminarily heals it, and suddenly. Something lively gopota walks.
        6. bunta
          bunta 19 March 2018 08: 59
          +1
          Quote: Citizen 90
          Only 2 type dogs rush at people

          You are mistaken. A flock rushes to the crowds. I personally didn’t feel what it was. Glory to God cost.
        7. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 19 March 2018 10: 16
          0
          Quote: Citizen 90
          Also offer to shoot?

          I see nothing wrong with the shooting. It is possible to humanize a dog only when there is someone to hang responsibility for its behavior.
      2. K.A.S.
        K.A.S. 16 March 2018 10: 30
        +3
        sadists, potential chikatil, why don't they clean up after themselves? why do they kill the animal so that it suffers? who gave them the right to violate the laws of shooting or using poison in the village. and if due to his lack of professionalism not a dog but an outsider or a child will die!
        Destroy stray animals reported specially trained people and not the types who are trying to assert themselves and who have no money to pay for the shooting gallery !!!!
        to catch one and put him for 5 years, let's see how strong he is in his beliefs !!!!!
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 March 2018 12: 16
          0
          Kostya, I remember how in the year 80, walking uncle to his grandfather, the uncle took aim at the dog, but when he saw the collar he didn’t shoot. So this problem was then.
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 14: 20
          +6
          Quote: K.A.S.
          Destroy stray animals reported specially trained people and not the types who are trying to assert themselves and who have no money to pay for the shooting gallery !!!!

          And in Soviet times, cartridges were given to hunters for a dog’s tail or a pair of crow's paws, and even a monetary reward was given for a certain number of tails and paws.
          1. Midshipman
            Midshipman 16 March 2018 20: 40
            0
            In an uninhabited area it is impossible. If further 200 m from the village - it is necessary to shoot like a wolf or a gray crow. It was once in the hunting minimum, now I don’t know, maybe they changed the rules.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 21: 17
              +1
              Quote: Midshipman
              In an uninhabited area it is impossible.

              Back in the 80s, in cities and villages from volunteer hunters formed teams to shoot stray dogs. Usually gathered under the leadership of policemen from the regional police departments. They took trucks at enterprises and arranged raids late in the evening or early in the morning. The corpses of the shot dogs were handed over to soap factories.
              1. Midshipman
                Midshipman 16 March 2018 22: 01
                0
                It was, I confirm. It was very right, they cared about people and about public peace. And now they just nod from the district authorities to the village, no one does anything, and only the wrinkled and damned injured doghunters at their own peril and risk lead in a socially dangerous way to “justice”. As a result, some are in prison, others are clutching their hearts, society is split, and dogs both ran and ran.
        3. ser6119
          ser6119 April 7 2018 16: 39
          0
          We had a case at work, we arrived at the boiler room in the village, and there the dog was mad and we had to get past it! So what are you going to do? The hunter drove well with us, although it is impossible to shoot in the settlements, but ran off home (I lived next time) and brought a gun!
    2. would
      would 16 March 2018 09: 09
      +17
      Doghunters appeared due to the lack of a solution to the issue of stray animals. In my city, for example, they are not caught, they are not shot, nothing is done to them. And all because otherwise, the zoo-schizans will start talking about a certain inhumanity, because it’s inhuman to kill dogs, but it’s very possible to bury people and operate them. And so in a heap of settlements. And the dogs go into packs, run wild, start attacking children first, then older people, and then after all they see everyone. Entire territories are also occupied, including schools and kindergartens. Including fatalities.

      And the legislation is written so that you, as a law-abiding person, must let your little daughter go to school, and then find her tormented body, because you are a law-abiding person and you cannot kill a dog, and she can gobble you up. She has more rights than you. Well, a kindergarten teacher or teacher should sit down, because the law is written that way.

      Therefore, doghunters appeared who decided that they could solve this problem so that they would not be caught. Naturally, the excesses did not begin from a great mind. What do you want to do, for example, the head of a kindergarten in the territory where 20 aggressive stray dogs live? Let go there groups of children with one teacher, and then sit on the bunk?
      1. novel66
        novel66 16 March 2018 10: 01
        +3
        shoot yes, but they scatter poison bastards - I have a dog only in the muzzle walks in the city. for dumb
        1. would
          would 16 March 2018 10: 40
          +12
          These are the very excesses not from a big mind. Poison cannot be scattered everywhere, only in crowded places, but alas, this is one of the few applicable methods of struggle.

          To shoot in the city? Here, not so long ago, they convicted a peasant in a village that he shot dogs that once again attacked his daughter. That is not an option. To score? You won’t just forget about the whole pack and it is fawn. Doghunters have only poison and not only them.

          I personally know the case of the head of the kindergarten had to poison the dogs, the poison was scattered throughout the kindergarten. It helped, all the dogs died and now it was possible to walk there. Illegally? Yes. But vital.
      2. K.A.S.
        K.A.S. 16 March 2018 10: 23
        +2
        what to do to the teacher?
        in general, there are supervisory authorities to which an appeal is written which is recorded and goes on an instance, after which the problem is solved, because few people want to be extreme if the child is bitten by a dog! If the teacher does not do this, then she is inadequate and needs to be driven away from children in her louse !! so as an example, bring something closer to life.
        Dogs must be cleaned! but this should be done by specially trained people who have permission and equipment, and not sadists with an inferiority complex who have vomited themselves as robbing people. And the movement of dog hunters will end very quickly then when an outsider is killed by some sort of rebound. maybe even a child.
        1. would
          would 16 March 2018 10: 32
          +7
          What are the supervisory authorities? Officially, including a court decision, no government agency is responsible for attacks by street animals. Generally. So if your daughter is bitten by a dog and this happens outside the territory of the kindergarten or school, then no one is responsible. Absolutely official.

          Here is the official report of the Investigative Committee on the complaint against Khabarovsk officials about the numerous attacks of street animals on people

          During the audit it was found that federal, regional, municipal legislation does not provide for the constant keeping of street animals in isolation. In this regard, the Khabarovsk administration is endowed only with the functions of trapping, sanitizing and vaccinating stray animals. After which she is obliged to return them to the places from which they were seized. A decision was made to refuse to institute criminal proceedings in connection with the absence of signs of corpus delicti in the actions of the employees of the city administration. The mayor of the city of Khabarovsk proposed by take urgent measures to address issues related to stray dogs, as well as to prevent the occurrence of animal attacks on people. During a comprehensive audit, we encountered a lot of difficulties. This is a really painful question. The fact is that the law does not spell out anywhere what to do with captured stray animals. There is only a ban on medical euthanasia. A theoretically captured, processed, even microchipped dog released back into nature continues to pose a danger to humans. Hopefully, the city and regional authorities will solve this problem, ”comments Ilya Gudkov, Assistant Director of Public Relations for the Khabarovsk Territory.

          https://www.dvnovosti.ru/khab/2017/05/12/66288/

          Someone will be extreme about the message going somewhere, and the fact that the dogs need to be cleaned is not known to TFR. Absolutely officially caught animals must be returned to the territory where they were caught. That is, they were caught on the school grounds, must return to the school grounds. In reality, no one catches them.

          In the territory of a kindergarten or school, the teacher is responsible for this according to the law "On Education". He, he and only he.
          1. Monarchist
            Monarchist 16 March 2018 17: 29
            +1
            "the mayor of Khabarovsk was invited," yeah, so the mayor ran the dogs to catch
            1. would
              would 17 March 2018 06: 42
              0
              I about the same. Offer not mean oblige, so the year has already passed and still.

              However, it is worth noting that our government planted a pig for us in 2014. In Khabarovsk there are quite normal, official "rules for keeping animals." They are a decree of the government of the Khabarovsk Territory. They are written quite adequately, you can’t let dogs go for a walk without a master, you can’t let dogs go for a walk with your child, you can’t keep animals in the hallways, etc. Extremely normal law.

              It was only in 2014 for it was not clear what the hell the same authorities abolished responsibility for its violation. That is, if earlier some patient (and they are really sick with these zoo schizos, as the owner of the dog I say) contained a stray dog ​​in the stairwell and I could write to the district police officer, she will be punished and everything will be allowed (everyone who wants to pay 500-1500 rubles each time no), now no. Now there is a ban, but there are no ways to bring it into action.

              That is, if now someone again gets himself a slop dog on the stairwell, then there is no government for them. The precinct can only talk. In a number of houses, zoo-schizans generally began to massively keep dogs, cats, puppies in the hallways, and frighten anyone dissatisfied with a criminal case of ill-treatment.

              So here we have power in Khabarovsk ...
        2. SERGUS
          SERGUS 16 March 2018 10: 57
          +4
          Quote: K.A.S.
          in general, there are supervisory authorities to which an appeal is written which is recorded and goes on an instance, after which the problem is solved, because few people want to be extreme if the child is bitten by a dog!

          At instances, the appeal can go oooh for a very long time and end with some sort of unsubscribe, but the educator will still be to blame.
          Quote: K.A.S.
          Dogs must be cleaned! but this should be done by specially trained people who have permission and equipment, and not sadists with an inferiority complex who have vomited themselves as robbing people.

          I agree, but these “robinguds” appear from the fact that the authorities most often do not deal with this problem.
    3. Midshipman
      Midshipman 16 March 2018 09: 21
      +6
      Much more tighten, and so half a million fine for shooting in the village. It is necessary to engage in educational work at school, to create youth organizations and generally to end with liberalism. And now the situation is in the child’s class - boys, classmates break lessons, swear, steal money, but at the parent meeting the teacher is even afraid to name them, because parents immediately begin to threaten lawyers.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 19 March 2018 10: 20
        0
        Quote: Midshipman
        and so half a million fine

        40000 rubles fine
  4. ares1988
    ares1988 16 March 2018 07: 21
    +2
    I support!)
  5. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 16 March 2018 07: 27
    +2
    Ap7 will be available ???
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2018 10: 03
    +5
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    One of the most interesting is the proposal to allow the sale of long-barreled .22 LR caliber rifles, colloquially “small things”, without five-year experience with smooth-bore weapons
    insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics. inadequate people maim, they shoot at cars and cats ...

    And at the same time kitchen knives, axes, pans. Since it is kitchen knives and pans that come first among the means of murder with domestic conflicts. Nefig to sell. And inadequate must be punished. moreover, not a fine of 100 or 500 rubles, but specifically, up to imprisonment or forced labor. And then some young fool from the balcony shot at people or cars - the parents got a fine (I don’t know how much, but it’s unlikely that the amount is big), He cannot be imprisoned (or he can’t answer for himself) - he is not yet twenty years old.

    Quote: Vard
    A small thing is also pistols ... For training shooting a very good thing ...

    By the way, “Margolin” I still remember with nostalgia. 4 years rifle section. Tuned (as they say now) do it yourself

    Quote: Mik13
    But the producers of terrible cleaver, which are supposedly needed for cooking, are really only interested in money. damned capitalists do not care about the wave of violence in which their products collect their bloody tribute ...

    Yes, morality sometimes blooms and smells. I’ve been involved in tourism for 20 years and you know, a good knife on a trip is not an unnecessary thing. However, in those days, and even now, you can also buy a good hunting knife only by hunting ticket. Everyone believes that I’ll go robbing or killing with him, but kitchen cleats, as my friend says “pig cutters,” buy at least tons. Now, at least in the law on weapons, there are some concessions when the cold is considered to be just a weapon. And then after all - "more than XX centimeters a blade is already a weapon." No way
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 10: 08
      +9
      Quote: Old26
      And then after all - "more than XX centimeters a blade is already a weapon." No way

      With all due respect, this is not so. There is also the thickness of the blade, the presence of a guard and so on.
      The question of filling, by the way, is purely for fun (I remember, I neighing for a long time):
      If I string a can from a glass jar, tin or plastic, onto a knife, will it be considered a guard, and a knife an edged weapon?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 March 2018 12: 37
        +3
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        If I string a can from a glass jar, tin or plastic, onto a knife, will it be considered a guard, and a knife an edged weapon?

        laughing As an expert will say.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 14: 24
        +1
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        The question of filling, by the way, is purely for fun (I remember, I neighing for a long time):
        If I string a can from a glass jar, tin or plastic, onto a knife, will it be considered a guard, and a knife an edged weapon?

        On formal grounds - no. Such a "guard" will not protect the hand from slipping onto the blade of the blade.
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 16 March 2018 14: 26
      +1
      Comrade Old (I don’t accept numbers: I’m evil) I agree with you 100%. As for the knives, it’s kind of nonsense: the kitchen ones are not much different from the hunting ones, the so-called “penknife” is also a dangerous thing, but they are sold
  8. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 16 March 2018 10: 09
    0
    I would buy a SV-99!
  9. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2018 10: 40
    +3
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Quote: Old26
    And then after all - "more than XX centimeters a blade is already a weapon." No way

    With all due respect, this is not so. There is also the thickness of the blade, the presence of a guard and so on.

    It is now. Now, indeed, a number of signs must coincide, so that the chill (household) is considered a weapon. Including the thickness of the butt of the blade, the presence of a guard. the hardness of the blade, the method of attaching it, how much the tip is higher or lower than the butt, and a number of other factors. Sometimes they are proto “effective”, sometimes they aren’t. But in general it’s easier now. In the early 70s, the main sign was the length of the blade - more than 9 centimeters (EMNIP) - everything, already a weapon. Well, and accordingly, completely "push-buttons" were forbidden (vykiduhi ")

    Quote: Golovan Jack
    The question of filling, by the way, is purely for fun (I remember, I neighing for a long time):
    If I string a can from a glass jar, tin or plastic, onto a knife, will it be considered a guard, and a knife an edged weapon?

    Offhand - no. Garda is something firmly bonded to the knife itself ...
  10. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 16 March 2018 11: 10
    +4
    Little things to the people! With skis! good
  11. Blue fox
    Blue fox 16 March 2018 11: 22
    +3
    It’s still worth sorting out this issue, the small thing is a serious weapon, primarily because of the aiming range due to the rifled barrel, therefore, I believe that it’s absolutely correct that before you can legally acquire it, you should have the experience of owning a smoothbore (although the experience should be differentiated depending on groups of citizens , that is, ex and the current security forces would have had a maximum of one year, and those who had completed the training course before acquiring a license would have had a couple of years of ownership of the smoothbore), but as for affordable shooting clubs for children for free and interested adults for a moderate fee, with storage weapons in the dash, this is only a plus, so the culture of possession of weapons is developed and the arrows are prepared.
    1. Midshipman
      Midshipman 16 March 2018 20: 51
      +1
      I agree with you. The result will be another "disarm" such as rubber arrows or air guns, but much more dangerous. The excess temptation for an immature soul to shoot at sparrows or crows without thinking about the consequences.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 19 March 2018 10: 28
      +2
      Quote: Blue Fox
      small things are a serious weapon, primarily because of the aiming range due to the rifled barrel

      And you pump PSP vodka with helium to inflate the balls, She will give you all 600 m / s. and in all respects the gunshot jumps, only the bullet should be shell, otherwise it will melt.
      I believe it is necessary to legalize any amateur, and even home-made weapons, weapons, with the obligatory registration of the picture of rifling.
  12. Starmaster
    Starmaster 16 March 2018 11: 25
    0
    I would permit, according to hunting ticket, but with reservations, the magazine is not detachable for 2-3 rounds, the barrel is no longer than 450 mm, please learn to shoot, you can even try hunting, but in this version the smooth-bore is more profitable.
  13. Galleon
    Galleon 16 March 2018 11: 28
    +4
    Quote: Citizen 90
    Only 2 types of dogs rush at people - rabid or those that people have beaten in one way or another. Remember and protect. Shoot more often - they will often rush - it’s more convenient for you, of course. Amuse amusement. moral.
    How many years I live - only those less barking barked. Big ones - which can break - just go past their own business. And so - for a minute - large dogs do not survive on the street = appear there only after being thrown out by negligent owners. Also offer to shoot?

    To people with such statements as yours, I would give out a bicycle in some Moscow industrial zone in the evening, and I myself would drive nearby in a car with an injury - suddenly you will not be able to get away from the chase of another pack. At the end of the route, I guarantee a change in your opinion to the exact opposite, and you will still ask that you leave that trauma.
    1. Starmaster
      Starmaster 16 March 2018 11: 36
      +4
      There was a case at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in the early 80s, the senior warrant officer stayed in service in the winter and went to the next one from his site, caught a ride to the city and disappeared, found after 3 days, stray dogs were bitten, the ensign had 2a large roller ones in his bag bearing, with this bag he was able to bang one, the weight of the dead dog was almost 60 kg.
      1. Citizen 90
        Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 18
        0
        here in our "regions" all the street ones are petty. A dog of 60 kg cannot be born street. They do not survive. Someone took it and threw it away. Another was hurt. Street dogs are to blame as a genus? And this is not going into the philosophy that he domesticated and oh ... their man "wandered" globally.

        ps "we are responsible for those who tamed" need to drive from childhood.
      2. Palagecha
        Palagecha 16 March 2018 23: 50
        +2
        And the bearings enslaved from the spaceport?
    2. Citizen 90
      Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 14
      0
      In the summer I regularly cycle through the private sector. The result is the same - small bark. Shy. There are almost no large ones. Why - described above.
      1. The Sparkle
        The Sparkle 17 March 2018 22: 39
        +2
        I am glad that it is safe on your streets, here is a recent example - dogs bit a young man, and zooshiza poison the relatives of the deceased https://www.yaplakal.com/forum1/topic1756920.html
        And I invite you to the city of Tolyatti in the evening for a walk along Severnaya, Vokzalnaya, Nikonova St. - tell us, if you can, about the "small and shy"
  14. Varyag71
    Varyag71 16 March 2018 11: 34
    +3
    Quote: Flame
    Doghunters are adequate, unlike animal defenders. When a chipped stray dog ​​is tearing a person before your eyes - you will understand that catching stray dogs, their castration and subsequent release into place creates a danger to people and the only way out is to shoot.

    Well, nonsense ... the dog hunter is adequate ...
    1. Starmaster
      Starmaster 16 March 2018 11: 43
      +4
      A dog hunter, by definition, cannot be adequate. This is either a person in a state of passion resulting from what he saw from the actions of the dogs (and), or a latent maniac, prone to humiliating (destroying) a deliberately weaker (in this case, dog).
      Killing animals on city streets by any method is generally illegal, if you have a desire to kill right when you want and where you want, then a suitcase - a station - Kiev.
      1. Citizen 90
        Citizen 90 16 March 2018 13: 26
        0
        THAT'S IT! Protecting yourself is one thing, but you can’t blame the little things in your pocket for self-defense, right? From which I conclude that those who lobby the small masses for the sake of "protecting themselves from dogs" are going to purposefully destroy them. So that
        Quote: StarMaster
        latent maniac, prone to humiliation (destruction) of a deliberately weaker (in this case, a dog).
        it's you to the point. Will a child crash into such a car, strike back? There are broken

        And by the way, the dogs are afraid of the sound of a shocker. And if you throw stones for fun - so why be surprised that they then throw?

        No, everything is good in moderation and their sterilization number has decreased. Pack not even in spring. 2-3 maximum and those will be displayed.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 14: 27
        +5
        Quote: StarMaster
        A dog hunter, by definition, cannot be adequate. This is either a person in a state of passion resulting from what he saw from the actions of the dogs (and), or a latent maniac, prone to humiliating (destroying) a deliberately weaker (in this case, dog).

        To all “animal defenders” and others who are used to earning greens of letters, I suggest taking all stray dogs home - have the courage to take responsibility for them.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 15: 18
          +4
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          ... others accustomed to earning greens of letters ...

          Hold the tongue ... military Internet negative
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 15: 50
            +3
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Hold the tongue ... military Internet

            Fuck I need you, hold your tongue.
            Or is your tongue no longer without support?
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 16 March 2018 17: 38
              +4
              Oooooooo, how everything is running ...
              Do not give small things. Issue a rolling pin by special permission, for half an hour. Then select laughing
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Fuck I need you, hold your tongue

              Well, what have vegetables to do with it? And still hold the tongue (not mine, but mine) yes
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 21: 19
                +2
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Well, what have vegetables to do with it? And still hold the tongue (not mine, but mine)

                Do not tell me what to do and I won’t tell you where to go. hi
  15. Earnest
    Earnest 16 March 2018 11: 42
    +2
    Quote: novel xnumx
    ... I have a doggie only in a muzzle walks in the city. for dumb

    I myself am a dog lover, but ... without a muzzle, a dog on a walk is generally not fucking doing it! Although I have never kept fighting or guard, but only hunting (hounds, dachshunds, terriers), I can prove with the example of a terrier that size does not matter wassat My yags have always been masters of the territory that they set for themselves, regardless of how many shepherds or boules live there. wink
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 16 March 2018 14: 29
      +2
      Quote: Earnest
      My yagi have always been masters of the territory that they themselves set

      And how do these reactive electric brooms double the size of dogs strangle ... And about the cats and say nothing ...
  16. Bronevick
    Bronevick 16 March 2018 11: 57
    0
    I’d buy a fitting for myself, I don’t like to stand in traffic jams.
  17. Tuzik
    Tuzik 16 March 2018 12: 22
    +2
    if you compare 366 tkm and .22, it’s as if it’s clear that it’s more dangerous in the hands of a “non-hunter”, and at the same time 366 tkm smooth barrel, and you can buy right away.
    After all, all these laws seem to want to protect potential killers or organized crime groups from access to powerful weapons, and in fact we get 5 years of waiting for sports and entertainment small things, but we can immediately buy a barrel for 9,6x53 Lancaster. As always, the mind does not understand.
  18. Tarasve
    Tarasve 16 March 2018 13: 11
    +3
    Yes, yes urgently ban kitchen knives, as well as wooden rolling pins. Today I read that in Ufa, the wife beat the husband with a rolling pin to death, but he spoke on the phone with some woman on the phone. angry
  19. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 16 March 2018 13: 12
    +5
    Although I often oppose the legalization of the short-barrel, but for the little things FOR hands and feet, because in your own household a thing is simply necessary, from kites, ferrets, and alien dogs. During this winter, the newly arrived dogs managed to get 3 rabbits out of their cages while they ran with a draene, chickens and ducks were pecked, and their neighbors were almost exhausted. In spring, young ravens with magpies do not give rest.
    And try to attach to the NP from the smoothbore, so you will remain without pants ...
    1. Tarasve
      Tarasve 16 March 2018 13: 19
      0
      Now there are very wonderful airplanes, a fox from 50 meters hits the felling.
      1. Ace Tambourine
        Ace Tambourine 16 March 2018 13: 26
        +3
        And it costs like a cast-iron bridge with bulbs ...
        And TOZKA with the store I do not think it will be more expensive than 15-20 kilo rubles.
    2. raw174
      raw174 16 March 2018 13: 45
      +3
      Quote: Ace of Diamonds
      During this winter, I have managed to pull out 3 rabbits out of the cages from the cages until I arrived with a drin

      I hunted a stray dog ​​in my yard a week ago. My argument is 1 cartridge from Saigi-12, exactly to the head from 7 meters ...
      1. Ace Tambourine
        Ace Tambourine 16 March 2018 13: 49
        +1
        I have 40 mn from home to the barn and the entire plot is 100 in length .. From the “rolling” TOZka from the 2nd floor, I wet the kites and trochees, I even removed the soaring kites with a lead.
        And SAIGA almost in the city limits doesn’t work for me ...
    3. Cyril Troekurych
      Cyril Troekurych 16 March 2018 14: 19
      +1
      you mean offended kites
      these are nature orderlies
      1. Ace Tambourine
        Ace Tambourine 16 March 2018 14: 33
        +3
        These are the orderlies vultures ...
        And the kites are the most robbers of the ear ...
        I grazed one for 2 weeks, he has protected my 10 chickens.
        He himself was small, he could not drag a chicken, left only feathers and bones in place, and the wingspan was 1.5 m.
    4. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 14: 21
      0
      If you allow you to own a cop but use it only at a shooting range, then you won’t be able to defend any problems and risks and then sell for 50 pieces apiece, I’m sure the buyers were found and not a few are actually new market segments and tax deductions to the state treasury would be nice and the proceeds from the sale of cops from warehouses can be spent on promising new developments and equipment upgrades, product quality has grown, arms enterprises have become self-sufficient and could be financially independent
  20. raw174
    raw174 16 March 2018 13: 42
    +4
    I am categorically against the distribution of the short barrels, but the long barrels can be pushed into the masses. The question is, where to shoot? Shooting ranges or shooting ranges will be needed.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 14: 10
      +2
      Why are you against the short barrel? Look, the owners of tigers and long-range rifles have no one to shoot rifles at anyone, which means that rifles are easy to track and leave traces, which means it’s impossible and pointless to use for criminal purposes
      1. raw174
        raw174 16 March 2018 14: 49
        +2
        Quote: RaptorF22n
        Look, the owners of tigers and long-range rifles have no one to shoot rifles at anyone, which means that rifles are easy to track and leave traces, which means it’s impossible and pointless to use for criminal purposes

        You can’t swear the long barrel secretly, but with a gun it’s easy. Legalization will spill out into the streets of tens of thousands of trunks, a significant part of which will be lost, stolen, etc.
  21. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 March 2018 13: 42
    +2
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    One of the most interesting is the proposal to allow the sale of long-barreled .22 LR caliber rifles, colloquially “small things”, without five-year experience with smooth-bore weapons
    insanity ... I would have forbidden pneumatics. inadequate people maim, they shoot at cars and cats ...

    And you still forbid the fists: in childhood, we had a case when the men fought and killed one another with their fists. For cats and cars, traditionally used slingshots, we called: "hide"
  22. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 March 2018 13: 50
    0
    Quote: StarMaster
    A dog hunter, by definition, cannot be adequate. This is either a person in a state of passion resulting from what he saw from the actions of the dogs (and), or a latent maniac, prone to humiliating (destroying) a deliberately weaker (in this case, dog).
    Killing animals on city streets by any method is generally illegal, if you have a desire to kill right when you want and where you want, then a suitcase - a station - Kiev.

    I basically agree with you, but let me disagree with the last point: few of them are inadequate, and here we add.
  23. Citizen 90
    Citizen 90 16 March 2018 14: 03
    0
    Perhaps I’ll summarize my “hassle” with different people in the comments as a separate comment. So that there is no misunderstanding.

    So the problem - in our region - was until the moment they began to sterilize. And then - it used to happen infrequently, and every case of an attack was exaggerated in the press, even if it fell under the attack, which he himself kicked.
    He himself witnessed how some forehead just kicked a lying dog. She did not bark, she slept, was not too lazy to go up and pretty kick. The dog next time barks drunk, will it be to blame?

    Over the past couple of years, I have seen almost everyone with tags and the same ones (constantly walking, I live in the private sector in the city = all the dogs I see in healthy containers where I carry garbage). No puppies. Pack not even in spring. If new ones appear, it seems to be due to negligent owners - for adults. Are the dogs to blame?

    Why there are no large - described. They do not survive. They can’t feed on the street. They saw a big one - know that another one lives in the district who started and threw you away. Are the dogs to blame?

    Even without tags, I see several “home-walking” dogs, medium-sized mongrels running about their business somewhere, escorting the owners and returning to the yard. Itself is categorically against similar from the point of view of the owner. They are all somehow calm to people, but the devil knows. A dog living at home also on a chain can perceive strangers as an enemy. My not on a chain walks only on my site or on a leash with me.

    Here you have the facts as I have here in 2 areas where I am.

    As for the small things - let's keep it clean, if the pack is going to, it means it does not control the city. Call, catch and sterilize. Otherwise - as I described - it seems there are and can not see them. You can’t blame a little thing in your pocket - and my opponent talked about injury. But if a person stands for free small things and purposefully targets livestock = such a person’s weapon is generally contraindicated. For accustomed to breaking off these lives, he can’t resist and do business, having quarreled with his neighbor.

    Actually, psychology is to help, who are interested in studying the causal relationship in more detail. Well, many maniacs with animals began.
    1. Ace Tambourine
      Ace Tambourine 16 March 2018 14: 42
      +1
      I have 3 dogs, all on a chain ....
      What's the point? The dog will crawl anywhere, the chain link is torn to shreds. And then the dog and the dog always "agree". Therefore, in the village, in the sense in their economy, without such a rifle in any way.
      About the kites and other animals generally silent ....
      There would be no loss, so she wouldn’t rest against me.
  24. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 16 March 2018 14: 04
    0
    The discussion was about the initiatives of the Kalashnikov Concern, and here are doghunters and inadequacies where the moderator
    1. Citizen 90
      Citizen 90 16 March 2018 14: 26
      0
      It's about what some want to use the results of this initiative.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Citizen 90
    Citizen 90 16 March 2018 14: 25
    0
    I would also like to speak directly about the topic.

    A catch for elementary education, etc. .... This is all good and I myself am for planting NVP in all forms for this knowledge is skills like "a sword that can be useful once in a lifetime, but you need to wear it every day." Just answer the question - are there many budget shooting galleries where you can come with your own? In Moscow, it may be. We have a site outside the city (we’ll finish it yet) and a site + targets are standing - I can’t afford an engineer except for a couple of months for an hour. Actually, the visitors there are also appropriate - people who earn money and not salary. Only for this I do not have a smoothbore. There's no point. Hunting is barbarism. Nature in conditions ruined by mankind grew, and you came with a gun and killed for what?
    Amuse the FAC? Go to a bear with bare hands - you will amuse but not for long. And for food, they are specially grown and sold in a store.
    I have pneumatics. I shoot at pieces of paper in the woods with a makeshift bullet catcher. With smooth / small, where can I shoot? Have a hunting ticket, go to the hinterland and there shoot at pieces of paper while they hunt around? "Conveniently". So, until there is infrastructure for this “training”, sales will not rise much (namely, it’s started for the sake of love, and not because of love for the motherland and for preparation “in case God forbid”). Someone, having the opportunity, will buy, to put on the shelf next to the smooth one and shoot 2 times in the forest, units will really find ways to apply constantly and learn - for whoever wants to, he still goes to circles. They are few, but there are.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 14: 50
      +1
      In Soviet times, small things were wildly successful among all segments of the population, many hunters wanted to change their smooth ones for small ones, but due to our legislation they can’t do this because of the lack of recoil, well-aimed shooting up to 100 meters, now many try to buy ceseta remas and other rifles in conditions of sanctions to get it becomes complicated the little thing is ideal for almost all hunting conditions so that our gunsmiths need to lobby for the expansion of this arms market so that the sanctions are cut off and all the spoons and forks are stamped again, you need to look at the prospect, but in order to produce the products that are in demand, you need sane legislation and the state will win and gunsmiths will be able to satiate demand and buyers will be satisfied
  27. motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 16 March 2018 14: 45
    +1
    This is a good topic, a little thing to the masses. Indeed, for the accumulation of shooting culture, it is probably better not to think of anything. To her (small things), all ages are submissive. With greater accessibility and relative safety, you can get a lot of good shooters. After all, the principles of using small arms are the same, and little depends on its caliber. And a person who understands how to aim, shoot and serve the small things will master (if necessary) much faster and more seriously.
  28. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 March 2018 15: 25
    +4
    In general, with the Law on Weapons there are a lot of stupidities and, moreover, stupid things with good intentions: a hunting knife is only for a ticket, and a kitchen hatchet can be like a rifled barrel after five years of owning a smoothbore, and you can get permission for that hemorrhoids.
    1) a hunting knife, comrade Old wrote correctly: "" everyone believes that I’ll go to rob and kill with him, "the so-called" penknife "can also be killed: in the magazine" Rural, youth "a case is described when a teenager with a penknife" bull "mortally wounded and nothing was used to sell penknives.
    2) the fact that completely banning pneumatics, as Andrei Yurievich suggests, inadequate people will not stop torturing animals or shooting at a car. Once Vysotsky sang "he is not my friend or brother" about the owners of the "Lada", a song on behalf of a veteran of the revolution, who was prevented from sleeping by cars. He spoiled several cars at night and fell asleep happily. This is of course a joke, but every joke has a share of reality.
    Imagine an old man who has headaches, and a neighbor breaks up at night in a car, where is the guarantee that the old man will not take a hammer (forbid it) and will not go around scamming the car at night?
    Under the “damned tsarism”, ANYONE could buy a hunting rifle, and before the revolution of 1905 a machine gun could be! Of course, it is extreme, and it is necessary to simplify the process of acquiring hunting rifles.
    They will tell me about inadequate people, but let me ask a question: from the fact that the law on weapons is being tightened, it has become inadequate and the organized crime groups have disappeared?
    All supporters of the prohibition of weapons, agree with the organized crime group, so as not to sit back and "disarm", otherwise they will arm themselves and arm themselves
  29. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2018 15: 26
    +2
    Quote: Monarchist
    Comrade Old (I don’t accept numbers: I’m evil) I agree with you 100%. As for the knives, it’s kind of nonsense: the kitchen ones are not much different from the hunting ones, the so-called “penknife” is also a dangerous thing, but they are sold

    It seems that the correct law was adopted, but when a patrol suddenly stops you on the street, it is very difficult for him to prove something. And most importantly, even in the law, not everything is smooth. There is such a position, EMNIP that a knife is not a melee weapon whose handle length is either less than 7 cm, or 5, I don’t remember. Under this category (the length of the handle) fall mainly "bonded" knives, which certainly cannot be called a household.
    Now the problem has moved, a lot of our knives, and Chinese, and someone else's have appeared. That is, you can buy more or less decent. But when you read the law, you understand what people wrote it, far from all this
    Here are some examples.
    1. A knife is not considered a cold weapon if it has a blade tip below the butt, or a knife with a deflection, or if the angle between the tip and the butt is about 70 degrees. The same cooks or similar knives. Exactly 100% that they can’t do a stab, A chopping ??? laughing And some have a 30 cm centimeter blade, and a guard is ...
    2. In the same way, with regard to the "survival knife" of different types, systems and calibers. I’ve been involved in tourism for 20 years, the last 8-10 years haven’t been very special, but I like to go to nature. You can chop wood with such a knife, but it is not considered a weapon for a number of reasons.
    3. I have one friend, a big fan of doing something at home with my own hands, decorating. He made a very peculiar cabinet for himself. On the shelf is either a saber or a sword, plus a katana. But at the same time, the blade in the handle hangs. The meaning in such a thing is lost, as if if he dangles it is impossible to pierce a person
    In short, insanity is enough. Therefore, I try if I take something to nature, then I either get to the meeting place by taxi or ask me to be picked up along the way ...

    Quote: Blue Fox
    It’s still worth sorting out this issue, the small thing is a serious weapon, primarily because of the aiming range due to the rifled barrel, therefore, I believe that it’s absolutely correct that before you can legally acquire it, you should have the experience of owning a smoothbore (although the experience should be differentiated depending on groups of citizens , that is, ex and the current security forces would have had a maximum of one year, and those who had completed the training course before acquiring a license would have had a couple of years of ownership of the smoothbore), but as for affordable shooting clubs for children for free and interested adults for a moderate fee, with storage weapons in the dash, this is only a plus, so the culture of possession of weapons is developed and the arrows are prepared.

    This is all clear and probably correct. but here I do not belong to any of these categories. Not a security officer, nor a hunter. As I already wrote, t.ch. and above - was engaged in tourism. But for example, selling to the same tourists something like a TP-82 pistol from the NAZ astronaut is weak. I don’t need a small thing at home either, a long-barrel or a short-barrel, but I would love to have such a house. But alas. Start the epic of buying, it turns out that my eyesight is weak, as if I will specifically take off my glasses when I shoot, plus something else they find, some restrictions on age, then something else .... B In any case, it’s good that there are some progress, but I’m afraid that all these initiatives will drown in our ongoing bans ....

    Quote: Tuzik
    After all, all these laws seem to want to protect potential killers or organized crime groups from access to powerful weapons

    Honestly, for my long enough life I have hardly heard that murderers or organized crime groups use legally purchased weapons, even cold, even firearms. They do not need any permissions to own. But for us to protect - still a lot of obstacles. And if God forbid there will be some kind of conflict, for example, the zone will rebel and scatter (conditionally), then the first thing that I will do is to take organs, it seems to me, to seize weapons from the population under the pretext that criminals will not get it. And the fact that the criminals put a dozen or two people is of little interest to the authorities. It is impossible for the population to have weapons. Fraught with power
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 16 March 2018 17: 40
      0
      And it all began "at the request of the working people" at. "corn" and continues
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 21 March 2018 19: 09
      0
      Namesake, order yourself a fink with a bitch. There, the knot itself performs the role of the guard quite well. Here, like Sholokhov. Such was Yashka-Zhigan. yes And the thickness of the wedge is decent.
  30. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 16 March 2018 15: 51
    0
    You are dreaming! The Russian Guard is trying by any means to "strangle" the possession of weapons, or something similar to weapons, to ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 16: 08
      0
      If you strangle the domestic arms market in the country, then what's the point of the military-industrial complex and the Russian guard ???
  31. vaaaaadik
    vaaaaadik 16 March 2018 16: 51
    +1
    not so small and safe
    1. Bobrovsky
      Bobrovsky 17 March 2018 17: 35
      0
      About a kilometer and a half too stuck. She does not fly so much.
      1. ser6119
        ser6119 April 7 2018 17: 08
        0
        One will fly by, but one must shoot there with an elevation of 45 g. like in the open. It's like with the F-1 in which the radius of the expansion of the fragments of 200 meters laughing
  32. myobius59
    myobius59 16 March 2018 17: 26
    +1
    I remember how my father's classmate had a CROWD FELT (literally) in the trunk of the GAZ-69 A, on which he carried superiors at the timber industry farm. And cartons with cartridges were lying there, some fell apart (the cardboard there is very thin on them) and cartridges were scattered across the floor.
    It was in the 70s, and then we were still very small (10-14 years), blew up these cartridges in a fire. Later they began to make small-sized pistols, at first primitive, and then some had very worthy specimens.
    With smoothbore weapons then there were no problems either. Single-barrels of 16 caliber were sold in almost any selmag. My bro and I probably started hunting from the age of 12. In spring break at the end of March (we usually have a very strong crust at this time), and even before the lessons, getting up at 3 nights, we went to the grouse, to which there were 3 from the village -4 km, and by 8 o’clock they brought home a pair of black grouses.
    There were never any excesses with weapons; many had smooth-bore and small things, without any hunting tickets. In my memory, only one person shot himself from a small piece, I don’t remember anything else. Nobody ran with guns, and did not shoot left and right.
    Yes, the time is now completely different, and probably if you make such a sale, as then, there will be completely different consequences. And it is not for nothing that there is such a heated debate about this.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 17: 43
      0
      With such laws, we will soon come to the conclusion that gasoline will have to be drained from the tanks, prohibiting prohibitions is the result of nothing constructive. Imagine tomorrow car owners will be obliged to drain the fuel and put the steering wheel on each wheel and take it home and take it home put it in a safe and justify such requirements so that criminals and terrorists do not take possession of your car
    2. Dedall
      Dedall 16 March 2018 21: 33
      +2
      Respected myobius59, about the ban on "little things" I can explain that this happened after a year somewhere in the 64th with such laid down during clan dismantlings of the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Kyrgyzstan.
      As for the fighting qualities of this type of gunshot, then here you will get. A case was recorded when one hunter ricocheted out to shoot himself from TOZ-16. Once, at a department of military field surgery, they showed us a guy who had to undergo heart surgery to get a bullet out of there. Moreover, she hit the kid in the thigh, and from there she traveled through the venous system to the heart.
      Reagan, for example, was shot precisely with the 22nd caliber of a revolver. Well, a classic example - Powers had a Colm Match sports pistol with the same caliber.
  33. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 March 2018 17: 34
    0
    Quote: leonardo_1971
    I would buy a SV-99!

    And to me please PPSh, and even better DShK. We can fantasize ad infinitum, but in reality ...
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 16 March 2018 17: 49
      0
      Then XM25 To knock down geese on oxygen if you fantasize then walk like walk
  34. Old military officer
    Old military officer 16 March 2018 18: 27
    +1
    Yes, and how many children learned to shoot from TOZ-8, TOZ-12 at NVP lessons and in school sections. No, it prevented the shit out of power. They destroyed everything and had to introduce access control, guards, turnstiles in schools. Beauty who understands. And when I myself went to school in the 50s, the little thing was standing by the principal in the office. And you say totalitarian regime.
    1. Loginoff
      Loginoff 16 March 2018 18: 29
      0
      Director personally shot objectionable students for poor performance or commitment to true Western values lol
    2. and195122
      and195122 16 March 2018 21: 33
      +1
      I completely agree. All my life (67) I have received offers for the purchase of NOT A ILLEGAL WEAPON, ALWAYS HAVE A ILLEGAL. Ban stupidity.
  35. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2018 19: 06
    +2
    Quote: Monarchist
    And it all began "at the request of the working people" at. "corn" and continues

    In the days of publicity, such a quatrain
    Yesterday again at the request of the population
    Sausage has risen in price in the country
  36. Antoxa iglinsky
    Antoxa iglinsky 16 March 2018 21: 19
    +1
    You are not worthy of such weapons, slaves are not allowed. So correctly mind. And pneumatics must be banned.
  37. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 16 March 2018 22: 12
    0
    Yes, who would doubt it! The current power of the coupe with the oligarchs implements American liberal capitalism as a carbon copy, ranging from executions at school and an increase in the number of serial killers, to introducing weapons into the people.
  38. aso38
    aso38 16 March 2018 22: 31
    0
    I agree with andrej-shironov. The Kalashnikov concern is becoming more private - assets worth one and a half billion have recently been sold and now the state has 25% and one share left (although this is still a key package). The situation is reminiscent of the American one, when the bigwigs of their arms business push their own laws. And they do not care about the dead and shot schoolchildren. For me, I agree with those who write that we need to make arms circulation more stringent - enough (the situation with traumatic weapons is a prime example).
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 17 March 2018 00: 53
      +2
      Correctly you need to prohibit cars and tighten why do you need personal vehicles, and suddenly you go crazy tomorrow and start knocking people down like skittles on buses or walking on foot pour gas every time you get home and to work, otherwise criminals or terrorists will steal your av and use your selfish goals and remember that the car is a means of increased danger, it is not in the safe
      1. aso38
        aso38 17 March 2018 10: 27
        0
        The number of deaths in road accidents in Russia for a year is more than in the Afghan war for 9 years. And concessions in the law on weapons will also lead only to our own genocide. But businessmen do not care, there is not much money.
  39. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2018 02: 18
    +2
    At last! Maybe at least something will budge. Although I do not really believe it. The human rights activists will scream again that we will shoot each other right away. All life experience screams that we can only tighten and know how. sad
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 17 March 2018 02: 49
        0
        Let's hope
        1. Almera
          Almera 17 March 2018 12: 09
          0
          Until everything is so bad, pistols have already been allowed to athletes. With reservations, but still.
  40. Yak28
    Yak28 17 March 2018 06: 38
    0
    Of course, I would buy myself a military weapon, for aesthetic pleasure, but we don’t sell it. But I don’t see a frail business, it’s a used weapon, a used weapon is a decommissioned junk (like RPD, AK, PM, PPSh) that shoots blank cartridges, but it’s worth the samples of weapons, much more expensive than the novelties that the army buys, even in US stores small arms are cheaper than our decommissioned non-shooting garbage can. You can also inflate small things and not make money on it.
    1. aso38
      aso38 17 March 2018 10: 46
      0
      Yak28, you're wrong. Enhanced weapons are quite suitable, and not decommissioned junk. Maybe there are some instances, but a lot of glazed is done from scratch. And on the assembly, it is checked on a par with the combat one (they drill the trunks after the first shooting from the shooting gallery, when the machine is still uncoated, it simply has not passed in accuracy). Only models for assembly and disassembly do poorly (either they are sent to the army to train soldiers, or to youth circles). But there you understand, even there is no hole in the trunk. That is, Yak28, just buy a new cool weapon - you will not lose. There is an automatic shooting mode and it is oiled as a battle, not a hunting one.
    2. Bobrovsky
      Bobrovsky 17 March 2018 14: 34
      +2
      That's right. My friend served in Germany until the complete withdrawal of troops. A hunter, often visiting their weapons stores, drooled to the floor, which isn’t there. Our Mosin rifles were sold there at a price of one hundred marks. Recently I watched a video about a happy American shooter with a Mosin rifle. He bought it for a hundred dollars. And here we have this happiness, it costs about 25 thousand rubles to drink it.
  41. AlexYa
    AlexYa 17 March 2018 06: 51
    +1
    Shooting from small things, in the USSR, was part of the Zarnitsa program. We have been shooting since the 7th grade.
    1. Almera
      Almera 17 March 2018 12: 06
      +2
      Previously, smoothbore guns were sold without permission. It was a deal.
  42. brdm
    brdm 17 March 2018 07: 32
    0
    "Although technically small-caliber rifles are rifled, their effective firing range does not exceed the capabilities of the smoothbore." Come on))). The range and effectiveness of a shot from a small fry, even with a semiautomatic device, is significantly higher. And it’s strange, no one mentions a rebound on the look of such a small bullet. And for the first person to own a long-barreled rifled, it's like a grenade monkey. Smooth somewhere forgive, rifled no!
    I proceed from the considerations of the hunter. I do not want to be in a forest where a novice with a rifled hunt. Who knows, he will understand.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 17 March 2018 08: 52
      +1
      That is, buckshot of 12 is not as scary as a small bullet of small things?
      1. Almera
        Almera 17 March 2018 12: 04
        0
        The fact is that the small barrel has a rifled barrel! That is the problem. There are grooves in the bore - hello.
      2. brdm
        brdm 21 March 2018 15: 45
        0
        Of course not. Why I will not explain. This is how to learn. Long and with a clear end result. Excuse me. No time. But if you want to understand. Take a distance of 300m., And compare. Preferably in the field. It is desirable with targets of different densities. Etc.
    2. Bobrovsky
      Bobrovsky 17 March 2018 14: 48
      0
      That's right. A small thing is not such a harmless thing. Of course, the claimed firing range of one and a half kilometers is bullshit. A bullet from a cartridge 7,62x25 flies up to 1200 meters, 7,62x39 flies up to 1800 meters, although it is written everywhere that it is three kilometers. A light bullet cartridge 7,62x54 flies 3100 meters, heavy up to five km. So, the bullet of a small-caliber rifle clearly does not reach the declared range. But within five hundred meters, this thing is dangerous. That is clearly not a toy. To learn how to shoot well, having a small caliber is not necessary at all. Shooting from our pneumatic type MP512 is much harder, and in many ways safer. And the trouble with the police - the police are much smaller.
      1. Tuzik
        Tuzik 24 March 2018 19: 47
        0
        Lancaster per kilometer breaks a log, smoothbore, 5 years no need to wait
  43. Andrey Evseev
    Andrey Evseev 17 March 2018 10: 11
    +1
    In the United States, they treat a small fry like a toy for children, a child of 12 can easily give such a rifle to the DR. Cartridges are not only small fry, but they are also freely sold to any weapon, sometimes even not in specialized stores, but in simple supermarkets in the sports department goods. I picked up a full cart of food and reconciled a few boxes of cartridges and threw it at the checkout. There are certainly restrictions on weapons, but they are very different from the Russian ones. For example, you can buy in parts almost the entire Kalashnikov barrel, slide frame, percussion mechanism, they are not the main parts. The main part is the receiver U-shaped stamped sheet metal part. But here, the law can be circumvented by buying the blank of this part freely and drilling all the necessary holes for the fuse and rivets independently. The main thing is that the assembled machine would not shoot bursts, otherwise you can get a period of up to 20 years. To have a weapon of the third category firing in bursts, you need to get a special license, and it is as difficult as getting a small gun license in Russia now.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 17 March 2018 11: 34
      0
      It’s just a nightmare for our hoplophobes and prohibitions, and their self-defense is allowed. The civilian market is developed. But horror, they want to let the little things happen to me. Interestingly, they seriously think that our people are so dangerous and marginalized.
      1. Almera
        Almera 17 March 2018 11: 54
        +1
        Self defense is allowed. But only within the property for which taxes are paid + prove that there was an encroachment.
    2. Almera
      Almera 17 March 2018 11: 53
      0
      Depends on the state. In Texas, it was possible to have a full car M16A1 and M16A2, with 20 charging home store. This is approximately 2003. I don’t know now.
    3. Almera
      Almera 17 March 2018 12: 13
      0
      And what is needed to turn the AR-15 (semi-automatic) into the M16A2? Is everything done there in an hour, including beer?
  44. Almera
    Almera 17 March 2018 11: 46
    0
    In general, I was shocked 20 years ago when I received my first license - then I had to pass the hunt at least in society (and I’m never a hunter) to get permission to buy a smoothbore gun. And after 5 years, having passed all the circles of hell of our legislation, he received a “pink” footcloth. But then I bought a completely normal sniper rifle, certified with us as SHR-970, and not a small thing. To the little thing (.22LR) I came nevertheless, but! With small things you need to start learning to shoot, and not hang in the collection. It was a stream of consciousness, do not judge strictly.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 17 March 2018 12: 43
      0
      It is very interesting to ban because there is no culture of ownership, then I wonder where it will come from.
  45. Old26
    Old26 17 March 2018 12: 28
    0
    Quote: Sea Cat
    that we shoot each other right away

    Right! Here I have a neighbor ... There will be a trunk - I will immediately block it. And then I took it for fashion. I am going down from the floor, I am thinking about universal problems, and he is Good Morning. It is confusing and then I can’t catch this thought all day. probably in spite it does laughing

    Foolish !!! I just noticed that after the nickname the majority has a username in brackets now), Good idea! Thank you! And you know some by name, and especially if you are one of the new ones, you have to contact by nickname. somehow not comme il faut
  46. HVAC DNR
    HVAC DNR 17 March 2018 14: 43
    0
    one of the few reasonable ideas. a collector in the eye with 100m can be planted .....
  47. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 17 March 2018 16: 10
    0
    The arguments are weighty, I agree.
  48. VictorZhivilov
    VictorZhivilov 17 March 2018 17: 52
    0
    Briefly and clearly stated philosophy of the weapon lover. smile
  49. Clone
    Clone 18 March 2018 02: 23
    +1
    Personally, I am against the introduction of indiscriminate exemptions into the rules for acquiring "small things" for, so to speak, personal use. For shooting clubs, hunters ... this is all clear. But for what purpose is this “toy”, which, supposedly, able to increase the “shooting culture” of citizens, to be acquired by the boob without the experience of owning any weapon ??? But this is a very dangerous contraption, especially in the automatic version ... its rate of fire literally rolls over and cram the "target" with lead up to the very top, like "two fingers on asphalt."
    In short. There is experience and skills - buy and own. No? "Chill out Vasya!" stop
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 18 March 2018 03: 19
      +2
      Correctly you need to tighten the right to own and buy cars; they are even more dangerous than small things and shotguns, or else they buy the rights of a car 200 horses and knock people down like skittles, and only after 5 years of owning a scooter and a bicycle and even how many horrors show directly on YouTube and TV that's terrible
  50. garri-lin
    garri-lin 18 March 2018 09: 25
    +2
    Banter is a toothache thing. I read the comments and half of them are just banter.
    How can a son instill a culture of handling weapons if he did not hold weapons in his hands? How to maintain qualifications at the weekend, burning half a pack of cans at the dacha if there are no weapons?
    1. Dex__
      Dex__ 18 March 2018 14: 25
      +3
      I agree.
      He studied at the House of Pioneers in TOZs and Urals.
      Now, although I own small things to a heap of more serious rifled ones, I fully support the simplification of buying small things.
      ps ricochet pancake ... Nuts from slingshots also ricochet. Ignoramus.
      1. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 18 March 2018 18: 46
        +1
        With our prohibitions, for a long time we will not have the development of a civilian arms market
        1. VictorZhivilov
          VictorZhivilov 19 March 2018 19: 29
          +1
          Guys, I think time will put everything in its place ... Life is good ... smile
      2. brdm
        brdm 21 March 2018 15: 55
        0
        What badly ricochets in the field on dry arable land 2-3 times per 1km For 1.5-2 seconds ?!)). Nuts?))). Do not forget this. And write here about the nuts fly. For a serious rifled everything is clear. At the very heap. Over time, you begin to relate to the little things like to air. But we are talking about people for the first time who received rifled. Yes, small - but daring!
    2. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 18 March 2018 18: 51
      +1
      A vital question, here I am talking about this, it is necessary to support the Concern’s initiatives, then everyone will benefit both the state and the consumer
      1. VictorZhivilov
        VictorZhivilov 19 March 2018 19: 21
        +1
        And, in order for everyone to win both the state and the consumer, we need an organization like NRA.

        PS
        By the way, there is a lot of interesting and informative on their website.
        https://twitter.com/nra