Poisoned feather. Too many Germanic letters (part of 2)

The main task of the Soviet periodical press at all levels during the Great Patriotic War was to raise and strengthen the morale of the citizens of the USSR, instill in people's consciousness the hope of a quick victory over the enemy and conviction in the indestructible combat capability of our army, form a visible image of the enemy, cause a feeling hatred of the invaders. The main theme around which this image of the enemy was formed was, naturally, publications about the monstrous atrocities of the fascists in the territory of the USSR.

Residents of the village next to the hanged Zoya Kosmodemyanskoy.

A terrific story about a girl Tanya (Zoe Kosmodemyanskaya) and a photograph in which she lies in the snow with a noose around her neck - albeit cynically so to say - just a rare success for a propagandist. It was necessary to turn this photo into huge billboards (posters on the sides of roads and on city streets) and write on them: “Tanya gave her life for the Motherland. What are you ready for the Motherland ?! ”or just“ Do not forget, do not forgive! ”- and so everything is clear. But for some reason this was not done by the “tip” of the newspaper ...

That photo ...

At the same time, reports of the Nazi abuse of civilians [1] and Soviet prisoners of war [2] appeared in the newspapers in the very first days of the war. But here, too, there is quite clearly a lack of deep understanding of the problem. So, for example, in all publications that reported on the bullying of German fascists over Soviet prisoners of war, they are captured while being wounded! “Sergeant I. Karasev, who escaped from the German captivity ... witnessed the massacre of wounded prisoners of the Red Army ...” [3] - such articles were printed one after another. However, if you unconditionally believe the newspapers, it turned out that the healthy and full of strength the Red Army fighters were not captured, but found themselves in captivity only after they were seriously injured. But even in this state, they immediately fled from captivity, as did, for example, the seriously wounded Red Army soldier Fesenko, captured by the Germans on the bank of the somehow nameless “River P” [4]. Meanwhile, writing about the prisoners of the Red Army, on the basis of the fact that "the Red Army soldiers did not surrender in captivity," was not followed at all. Do not give up and everything! We should not have placed in the newspaper data on the number of our prisoners. Like, the Germans write their 3,5 million, and in fact just 500 thousands. But even this figure at the time looked just monstrous.

Very little was also published on the release of former Red Army soldiers from captivity. But they were. For example, in 1943, in the Sovinformburo reports, only two messages appeared about the release of our soldiers from German bondage [5]. In 1945, the press mentioned former Soviet soldiers returning from German captivity, only in passing, in articles about the release, and all other prisoners of Hitlerite camps [6]. Much more attention was paid to the fate of Soviet citizens hijacked to work in Germany [7]. But no one interviewed them or even tried to arouse hatred of fascism with a story about the heavy share of our soldiers in German captivity, although during the First World War similar materials in the Russian periodicals were printed all the time, often with photos. Why was the worthy experience of the past not used now?

The Soviet press reported about military operations abroad dryly and passionlessly, without adding any emotion to the content of the articles [8], since who would win there was not clear. But the actions of the local partisans were reported quite differently [9], and it was emphasized that anti-fascist uprisings [10] were constantly breaking out in the Nazi-occupied countries of Western Europe. The newspapers wrote that all strata of the population, including the intelligentsia [11], and even foreign workers who worked in enterprises in Germany, were trying to contribute to the victory over fascism [12].

As already noted, in the early years of the war, the priorities of the Soviet press were the stabilization of the moral climate in Soviet society and the strengthening of the conviction of the civilian population in the early victory of the Red Army over the enemy. To achieve the desired effect, the Soviet press used a wide variety of techniques, including a very primitive property. So, in the reports of the Soviet Information Bureau, which were printed on the front pages in the central newspapers, statements of German soldiers appeared at the very beginning of the war, surrendered in the first hours of military operations against the USSR. Thus, the former soldier Alfred Liskoff, whose appeal to the German soldiers was published by all Soviet newspapers [13], almost became the “protagonist” of the Soviet national newspapers in the first days of the war. It was possible to learn from him that “the German people are waiting for peace,” the German army does not want to fight the USSR, and only “the officer’s stick, the threat of execution forces the German soldier to fight, but he does not want this war, he longs for peace, as he longs for peace all German people. " Further, the Soviet press published appeals and other soldiers of the German army who voluntarily surrendered in the first days of the war. Thus, voluntarily ending the war and surrendering was advised by the crew of the pilots of the German Army Hans Hermann, Hans Kratz, Adolf Appel and Wilhelm Schmidt [14]. And then in the messages of the Soviet Information Bureau began to regularly appear messages about German soldiers and their allies who voluntarily surrendered to the soldiers of the Red Army [15]. They all unanimously declared that they didn’t want to fight, that “war tired” [16], “the war provoked by Hitler brings to all the peoples of Europe, including the German people, only misfortune and death” [17]. In the troops of the Nazi allies, judging by the materials of Soviet newspapers, soldiers were beaten with steel whips and chained to machine guns to force them to shoot, but they still didn’t shoot a single bullet at the Red Army troops [18], while the Germans themselves tried drop bombs in such a way that “they do no harm” [19].

In support of these materials, the Soviet press began, from the very first days of the war, to publish letters of German soldiers killed or wounded during the hostilities. These materials, as well as publications about the military operations of our army, had to convince the population of the quick victory of our people over the fascist invaders and create a bright and expressive image of the enemy. Of these, Soviet citizens learned that defeatism [20] reigned in the enemy’s army. Such a well-established military machine in the battles with all of Europe as the German army, judging by the publications of Soviet newspapers, was characterized by such deep flaws as the lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice of the military [21], fear of military hardship and deprivation [22], failures food supply [23], and the moral climate among German soldiers was depressing [24].

The letters painted vivid pictures of the hopelessness and despair of the soldiers of the German army, who encountered in the battle with such an unbeatable enemy as the Red Army was. So, from the very first days of the war, the Germans realized that “the Red Army is armed with equipment that is in no way inferior to ours” [25], “the Russians are better and more reliably dressed up for the winter ... They bear the difficulties of campaigns better ... The commanders are brave and have more experience” [26 ], and the servicemen of the German army without tanks “Not soldiers, but some shy rabbits” [27]. Judging by the letters home, German soldiers often had to starve and experience other hardships and deprivations of camp life [28]. In reality, the soldiers of the German army sent letters home of a completely different content and character [29]. Brought up by the German propaganda system on a sense of racial superiority, German soldiers treated the population of the USSR as a tribe of "subhuman" and, accordingly, wrote about this to their relatives and friends [30]. That is what is possible, and it was necessary to tell the readers of Pravda. So that they know that it’s not with the “fearful rabbits” that they have to fight, but with people who just don’t consider them to be people and bring them death, destruction and slavery worse than they were in Ancient Rome.

In the 1943 year after the decisive Stalingrad battle, the pessimism of the letters of the German military in Soviet newspapers increased even more [31]. The soldiers of the German army were simply driven to despair, and were forced to eat dogs and cats [32]. But it is unlikely that such letters would be missed by the German postal censorship. And then the question is - why did they write them then? And after all, everyone knew that we have censorship and should be with the Germans. And then suddenly such letters ... But what about the German Gestapo then?

Interestingly, the analysis of the frequency of these materials allows us to conclude that the peak of the publication of letters from German soldiers in the Soviet press fell on 1941-1942, i.e. for the most difficult period for our army. In 1943, the letters of the Germans were printed less and less, and at the end of the war they disappeared from the pages of the Soviet press altogether, giving way to oral testimony by captured soldiers of the German army.

In addition to the letters of German soldiers, letters of the German civilian population to their families and friends fighting on the Eastern Front were also published. The impression from them is that there was no military censorship in Germany, let alone the Gestapo, at all! Reading them, Soviet citizens could see how hard life was in Germany, and, therefore, to conclude that the collapse of the Hitlerite military machine should happen very quickly. And how could it be otherwise, if the civilian population [33] of Germany suffered from cold and hunger, and “various diseases are rampant among children” [34]. From 1943 onwards, news of the consequences of the bombings began to appear in the letters of the German civilian population (this is nonsense, no military censorship would have simply missed it, especially German, and smart people understood this, of course!) By British Air Force planes [35] . Here again, it should be said that such publications were popular in the Soviet press only in the first years of the Great Patriotic War, and in 1944-1945. on the pages of Soviet newspapers, they almost never appeared.

In addition to reports of the dismal state of the German workers and peasants [36] and the defeatist attitudes among the civilian population [37], it was reported that their food supply “is becoming threateningly bad. Half-starved rations are reduced every month ... In the cities, cases of scaling disease have become more frequent ”[38], and“ signs of real decay are found in German industry ”[39],“ terrible fatigue reigns everywhere ”[40]. Again, when writing such materials, you should look very carefully at the time. And keep in mind when this or that event happens. It was obvious that victory would not be soon. Otherwise, people will say - "they said fatigue, but they all fight and fight." And it will be like from the “world revolution”, which was written about both in the 20s and even in the 30s, but it didn’t come at all.

By the way, were there examples of successful foresight at that time? That is correctly disseminated information! Yes they were!!! But not in the newspapers, but in the movies. In 1943, the director Pyryev began making the film “Moscow's Daughter”, which was released on 1944 in films entitled “At six o'clock in the evening after the war”. And there the forecast for victory was voiced very accurately. The person thought, maybe he consulted with the experts, and gave an amazing means of mass exposure to the audience, a very lyrical and optimistic, brightening expectation and its hardship, with a wonderful ending. That is, some people could do it ...

1. News. July 17, 1941. No. 167. C.1; Nazi atrocities in Brest and Minsk // Izvestia. August 10, 1941. No. 188. C.1; The face of the Nazi army // Izvestia. August 31, 1941. No. 206. C.3; Curse // Truth. January 10, 1942. No. 10. C.3; The monstrous atrocities of the Nazi robbers // Pravda. January 23, 1942. No. 23. C.3; Fascist robbery in Ukraine // Pravda. March 21, 1942. No. 80. C.3; German atrocities in the Maikop oilfields // Pravda. February 11, 1943. No. 42. C.3; Bloody atrocities of the Nazis in the village of Alekseevka, Stalingrad region // Pravda. March 17, 1943. No. 73. C.3; The management of the Nazis in Estonia // Pravda. March 1, 1943. No. 60. C.4; On the mass forcible removal of peaceful Soviet citizens into Nazi slavery and on the responsibility for this crime of the German authorities and individuals exploiting the forced labor of Soviet citizens in Germany // Pravda. May 12, 1943. No. 121. C.1; In German slavery // Pravda. May 30, 1943. No. 137. C.3; Terror and robberies of the Nazis in Estonia // Pravda. February 9, 1944. No. 34. C.4
2. News. August 4, 1941. No. 183. C.1; News. September 11, 1941. No. 215. C.2; Bullying of the Nazis over Soviet prisoners of war in Norway // Pravda. January 3, 1942. No. 3. C.4; German brutal treatment of Soviet prisoners of war // Pravda. January 10, 1942. No. 10. C.4; Fascist scoundrels burn captured Red Army soldiers // Pravda. January 13, 1942. No. 13. C.3; Bullying of Soviet prisoners of war in Finland // Pravda. January 14, 1942. No. 14. C.4; The monstrous bullying of the Nazis over the captured Red Army soldiers in Norway // Pravda. February 13, 1942. No. 44. C.4; Bullying of Soviet prisoners of war in Romania // Pravda. January 18, 1942. No. 49. C.4; The reprisals of the Nazis with Soviet prisoners of war in Norway // Pravda. March 4, 1942. No. 63. C.4; The atrocity of the Finnish-fascist executioners // Pravda. August 29, 1942. No. 241. C.4; Is it true. January 3, 1943. No. 3. C.3; German brutal treatment of Soviet prisoners of war // Pravda. January 29, 1943. No. 29. C.4; Is it true. March 26, 1943. No. 81. C.2; Is it true. June 30, 1943. No. 163. C.1; Hitlerites shoot Soviet prisoners of war // Pravda. February 10, 1944. No. 35. C.4; The atrocities of the Germans in the concentration camp in Pruszkow // Pravda. January 26, 1945. No. 22. C.4;
3. From the Soviet Information Bureau // Stalin's Banner. July 12, 1941. No. 162. C.1
4. Stalin's Banner. July 27, 1941. No. 175. C.1
5. True. January 14, 1943. No. 14. C.3; Is it true. August 4, 1943. No. 193. C.1
6. From German captivity // Pravda. March 5, 1945. No. 55. C.3;
7. True. February 23, 1943. No. 54. C.2; Is it true. March 12, 1943. No. 69. C.1; Is it true. May 14, 1943. No. 123. C.1; Is it true. May 14, 1943. No. 123. C.1; Is it true. May 22, 1943. No. 130. C.1; Is it true. June 17, 1943. No. 152. C.1; Is it true. August 16, 1943. No. 204. C.1; Is it true. March 9, 1944. No. 59. C.4; Forcibly driven away Soviet people do not submit to Hitler's monsters // Pravda. March 16, 1944. No. 65. C.4; Soviet citizens return from Romanian captivity // Pravda. October 19, 1944. No. 251. C.4
8. See, for example: Stalin's Banner. January 12, 1941. No. 10. C.4; Stalin Banner. January 14, 1941. No. 11. C.4; Stalin Banner. January 15, 1941. No. 12. C.4; Stalin Banner. January 16, 1941. No. 13. C.4
9. Europe in the fight against Hitler // Pravda. January 19, 1943. No. 19. C.4; The partisan movement is a serious threat to the rear of the Nazi army // Pravda. July 8, 1943. No. 170. C.4
10. Yugoslav peasants sabotage the activities of the occupiers // Pravda. July 9, 1943. No. 171. C.4; Anti-German demonstrations in Denmark // Pravda. July 21, 1943. No. 181. C.4; Anti-Hitler demonstrations in Copenhagen // Pravda. July 18, 1943. No. 178. C.4; Anti-German speeches in Lyon // Pravda. August 20, 1943. No. 207. C.4; Armed clash between the population of the city of Iasi and the German troops // Pravda. March 4, 1944. No. 55. C.4
11. The intelligentsia of the occupied countries in the fight against Hitlerism // Pravda. November 29, 1943. No. 294. C.4
12. True. May 15, 1943. No. 124. C.1; Is it true. May 21, 1943. No. 129. C.1; Sabotage of foreign workers in Germany // Pravda. March 2, 1944. No. 53. C.4; Mass exodus of foreign workers from German enterprises // Pravda. March 4, 1944. No. 55. C.4; Mass exodus of foreign workers from camps in Germany // Pravda. March 17, 1944. No. 93. C.4;
13. News. June 27, 1941. No. 150. C.1; The story of the German soldier Alfred Liskof // Izvestia. June 27, 1941. No. 150. C.2; Stalin Banner. June 27, 1941. No. 149. P.1
14. Stalinist Banner. June 29, 1941. No. 151. P.1
15. News. June 29, 1941. No. 152. C.1; News. July 20, 1941. No. 171. C.1; News. August 21, 1941. No. 200. C.2; Is it true. July 15, 1943. No. 176. C.3; Is it true. January 2, 1944. No. 2. C.1
16. News. June 26, 1941. No. 149. C.1
17. Stalinist Banner. June 29, 1941. No. 151. P.1
18. News. July 29, 1941. No. 177. C.1
19. Stalinist Banner. June 29, 1941. No. 151. P.1
20. News. August 5, 1941. No. 184. C.1
21. Ibid. August 19, 1941. No. 195. C.1
22. True. January 1, 1942. No. 1. C.1
23. News. August 16, 1941. No. 193. C.1; Is it true. February 19, 1942. No. 50. C.1; Is it true. March 1, 1942. No. 67. C.1
24. Testimony of the dead // Truth. January 12, 1942. No. 12. C.2; Is it true. January 20, 1942. No. 20. C.1; Reflections of a German soldier // Pravda. April 22, 1942. No. 112. C.3
25. News. August 5, 1941. No. 184. C.1
26. True. March 14, 1942. No. 73. C.1
27. News. August 19, 1941. No. 195. C.1
28. The dull howl of the Nazi-German newspaper // Pravda. January 11, 1942. No. 11. C.4; Is it true. March 8, 1942. No. 67. C.1
29. On both sides of the front. Letters from Soviet and German soldiers 1941-1945. M., 1995.
30. Ibid. C.202
31. True. January 10, 1943. No. 14. C.3; Is it true. February 7, 1943. No. 38. C.3; Is it true. May 10, 1943. No. 120. C.3
32. True. January 31, 1943. No. 31. C.3
33. True. January 21, 1942. No. 21. C.1; Is it true. May 26, 1943. No. 133. C.1; Is it true. July 7, 1943. No. 169. C.1
34. Ibid. January 12, 1942. No. 12. C.2
35. Ibid. May 29, 1943. No. 136. C.1; Is it true. June 5, 1943. No. 142. C.3; Is it true. June 25, 1943. No. 159. C.1
36. The situation of the peasants in Nazi Germany // Izvestia. July 12, 1941. No. 163. C.3; Growth of diseases in Germany // Pravda. February 15, 1942. No. 46. C.4; Typhoid epidemic in Germany // Pravda. February 27, 1943. No. 27. C.4; Evacuation of German cities // Pravda. August 19, 1943. No. 203. C.4
37. Fatigue, apathy, the only desire is peace. Swedish newspaper about the mood in Berlin // Izvestia. August 14, 1941. No. 218. C.4; Depressed mood in Germany // Izvestia. August 8, 1941. No. 186. C.3; There are many pessimists in Germany // Pravda. February 22, 1942. No. 53. C.4; Sadly in the German rear // Pravda. March 11, 1942. No. 70. C.4;
38. The population of Germany on the eve of the third military winter // Izvestia. September 5, 1941. No. 210. C.4
39. The situation in Germany // True. January 9, 1944. No. 11. C.4
40. Swiss seal on the situation in Germany. // Is it true. April 16, 1944. No. 92. C.4

To be continued ...

Comments

[XII legion]

The press, photographs are an important source, and their analysis provides a lot of valuable information.
The article is based on a rich base.
And that's great
The executioners did not think that the photo with Zoya, tortured by them, would fall into the hands of Soviet soldiers.
And it cost the lives of the beasts from the 332th regiment of the Wehrmacht, which were not taken prisoner
Thank you!

[kalibr]

You wrote it well. Indeed, any action it ... should be deliberate, not spontaneous. High moral behavior is always rational. The behavior of the Germans was immoral and ill-conceived. Hence the logical ending!

[Olgovich]

Quote: XII Legion

The press, photographs - an important source, and their analysis gives a lot valuable information

Information like this:

Such a well-tuned military machine as the German army in battles with all of Europe, judging on soviet gas publicationst, there were such deep flaws as lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice military personnel [21], fear of military hardship and deprivation [22], disruptions in the supply of food [23], but the moral climate among German soldiers was depressing

brought HARM much more than good, dampening the fighters, creating a misconception about a strong and very skilled enemy.
Nonsense about the "class friends" of workers and peasants worked since the pre-war times. WHAT did the German “friends” —workers and animal peasants in our country — see during the war.
Veterans recall how it was not recommended to talk about the strengths of enemy aircraft and tanks, which was regarded as an eulogy of enemy technology.
Over time, life has put a lot in their places ......

[your1970]

Quote: Olgovich

Information like this:
Judging by the publications of Soviet newspapers, such a well-tuned military machine as the German army in battles with all of Europe, was characterized by such deep flaws as lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice of military personnel [21], fear of military hardships and deprivations [22], disruptions in food supply [23], but the moral climate among German soldiers was depressing
brought HARM much more than good, dampening the fighters, creating a misconception about a strong and very skilled enemy.
Nonsense about the "class friends" of workers and peasants worked since the pre-war times. WHAT did the German “friends” —workers and animal peasants in our country — see during the war.
Veterans recall how it was not recommended to talk about the strengths of enemy aircraft and tanks, which was regarded as an eulogy of enemy technology.
Over time, life has put a lot in their places ......

- that’s exactly what we know today - that what wrote the Soviet press was the TRUTH !!!
"in September 1941, the chief of the General Staff of the German Army, Franz Halder wrote in his diary: the war is likely to be lost by Germany" -for the way, he wrote ....

(From the book of Robert Kershaw "1941 through the eyes of the Germans"):
“During the attack, we stumbled upon a light Russian T-26 tank, we immediately clicked it directly from the 37-graph paper. When we began to approach, a Russian leaned out of the hatch of the tower to the waist and opened fire on us with a pistol. It soon became clear that he was without legs, they were torn off when the tank was hit. And despite this, he fired at us with a pistol! ” / Gunner of anti-tank guns /
“We almost did not take prisoners, because the Russians always fought to the last soldier. They did not give up. They cannot be hardened with ours ... ”/ Tanker of Army Group Center / /
After a successful breakthrough of frontier defense, the 3th battalion of the 18th infantry regiment of Army Group Center, which consisted of 800 people, was fired upon by a unit of 5 soldiers. “I did not expect anything like this,” Major Neuhof admitted to his battalion doctor, the battalion commander. “It is sheer suicide to attack the forces of the battalion with five fighters.”
“On the Eastern Front, I met people who can be called a special race. Already the first attack turned into a battle not for life, but for death. ” / Tanker of the 12th Panzer Division Hans Becker /
“You just won’t believe this until you see it with your own eyes. The soldiers of the Red Army, even burning alive, continued to shoot from the blazing houses. " / Officer of the 7th Panzer Division /

and this is about READINESS to the war of the Germans
“The proverb quickly came into use among German troops:“ three French campaigns are better than one Russian one. ”So in the fall of 1941, 70 levels of cargo were required to support the German fronts, while the daily supply did not exceed 23 convoys. As a result, the Nazi troops there was a shortage of ammunition and new equipment. As a result, the unsuccessful blitzkrieg ended on October 25, 1941, after which the war began, for which Germany was not ready. "

[Mikado]

So in the fall of 1941, to secure the German fronts, 70 trainloads of cargo were required daily, while the daily supply did not exceed 23 convoys. As a result, the Nazi troops experienced a shortage of ammunition and new equipment.

thank you should say sovereign Nicholas I. Our track is wider, and the Germans alter it until the end of the 41st. By the way, they captured few of our locomotives and wagons. that’s why the main supply came from vehicles, which is in the ratio "different brands of cars, including trophy (difficulty with spare parts) / length of road and condition of roads / bearded partisans", of course, it gave an unsatisfactory result. But do not forget that the Red Army offensive in the winter of 41-42 did not achieve much either due to poor supply. The shell hunger was especially felt, and there was no fault in the rear services - the evacuated plants did not have time give the norm. Even 120-mm mortars were diverted to the rear due to the lack of mines. Without absolutely idealizing allies, I think that the mobility of the Red Army came into decent shape only in 1943, and it was thanks to the receipt of a large number of vehicles through Lend-Lease.

[Mordvin 3]

Nikolai, I have never heard that the Germans would change the track. This, by the way, is a double-edged sword. In the WWI, there was projectile-cartridge hunger. However, our track is better, the carrying capacity will be more than that of the Europeans. But I read that the Ministry of Transport ordered one hundred thousand greenhouses for 41 years. This is about three to four million fighters. Misunderstanding.

[Reptiloid]

There was a cool article on this subject, Vladimir! There are photographs of special machines !!!!! Just super! Article last year. Try the search engine on the topic. In armament.

[Mordvin 3]

Yeah, I found it. Well 450 km. - chickens to laugh. But. If the Germans could, as I understand it, simply drag one of the rails closer to the other, then ours would hardly be able to expand the paths in the WWII, in Europe, due to the narrow sleepers. I don’t remember the width of the sleepers in the narrow gauge railway, although I studied a couple of classes at the Children's Railway.

[Olgovich]

Quote: your1970

that’s exactly what we know today — that what the Soviet press wrote was the TRUTH !!!

This :

Judging by the publications of Soviet newspapers, such a well-tuned military machine as the German army in battles with all of Europe, was characterized by such deep flaws as lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice of military personnel [21], fear of military hardships and deprivations [22], disruptions in food supply [23], but the moral climate among German soldiers was depressing

It was a lie.

[your1970]

Quote: Olgovich

This :
Judging by the publications of Soviet newspapers, such a well-tuned military machine as the German army in battles with all of Europe, was characterized by such deep flaws as lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice of military personnel [21], fear of military hardships and deprivations [22], disruptions in food supply [23], but the moral climate among German soldiers was depressing
It was a lie.

-
1) I brought you modern the confirmation THOSE German letters published then
2) was lies lack of military discipline, weakness and cowardice of German military personnel? orders by GERMAN PENALTIES to which Stalin refers, do you find yourself?
“After their winter retreat under the pressure of the Red Army, when discipline in the German forces was shaken, the Germans took some harsh measures to restore discipline, which led to good results. They formed more than 100 penal companies from the guilty guilty discipline or instability, set they were sent to dangerous sections of the front and ordered them to atone for their sins with blood. They further formed about a dozen penal battalions of commanders who were guilty of violating discipline by cowardice or stability, deprived them of orders, put them on even more dangerous sections of the front and ordered them to atone for their sins with blood. in the event of an attempt to surrender. As you know, these measures have taken effect, and now the German troops are fighting better than they fought in the winter "
3) about the failure in the supply cited earlier ..

[Olgovich]

"To cowards, wimps, slobs," armed with sticks, the Red Army lost in 41-42.
Do not carry nonsense.

[your1970]

Quote: Olgovich

"To cowards, wimps, slobs," armed with sticks, the Red Army lost in 41-42.
Do not carry nonsense.

- once again: orders to which Stalin refers, as well as information about GERMAN penalties and penal battalions - created before than the Soviet Internet IS ..
Open and read ... very surprised ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: your1970

- once again: the orders referred to by Stalin, as well as information about GERMAN penalties and penal battalions - created earlier than Soviet ones on the Internet THERE ..
Open and read .. very surprised.

all this has been known for a long time.
Do you understand WHAT you are claiming?
You claim that the Red Army suffered a terrible defeat 41-42 g from ..... poorly armed "cowards, wimps and slobs"

[your1970]

Quote: Olgovich

Quote: your1970

- once again: the orders referred to by Stalin, as well as information about GERMAN penalties and penal battalions - created earlier than Soviet ones on the Internet THERE ..
Open and read .. very surprised.

all this has been known for a long time.
Do you understand WHAT you are claiming?
You claim that the Red Army suffered a terrible defeat 41-42 g from ..... poorly armed "cowards, wimps and slobs"

-that is, you don’t believe in the weakness of morale? Did the Germans come up with their own penal battles from their heads, just became bored?
And the defeat of the Red Army is the result of a bunch of reasons, including a poorer organization.

[Olgovich]

Quote: your1970

-that is, you do not believe in the weakness of morale?

Nobody believes except you.
Wimps SO do not fight.

Quote: your1970

And the defeat of the Red Army is the result of a bunch of reasons, including a poorer organization.

Imagine at least ONE testimony of veterans that the Germans are "cowards, wimps and slobs." You can not? You can not.
You argue with the obvious facts.
Bye

[parusnik]

It was so impressive that the Soviet press had to write in the spirit: “The Germans will come — they will give everyone work. The Germans are a cultural nation, advanced, civilized ...” ..Yes and then the Soviet press used the same techniques that the Entente press had in years PMV .. Especially successful in this British and French ... Now from the "bright present" .. it is convenient to criticize the "dark past" ...

[Reptiloid]

In my opinion, Alexey, the matter is not only in the "" bright present "". For example, when I was little, I mocked ancient people:
And they did not know how to dress properly, and the laces on their boots, but about electricity and TV --- they did not know how ...... And they did not know how to read! But I’m such a good fellow — already from the age of 4,5 I was pleased with reading books around! And I didn’t want to accept the older’s arguments that it was a different life and they “were the first”
Vyacheslav is not the only one who has such a position. And she has a specific name. Something like this....

[kalibr]

Usually you write more reasonable things, surprisingly even. Of course, from the future it is more visible. But who told you that this is criticism? This is a "debriefing" that today journalists did not repeat such mistakes. We study the past to improve today!

Quote: parusnik

"The Germans will come - they will give everyone a job. The Germans are a cultural nation, advanced, civilized ..."

And this is generally - either drunk or foolish.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

....!

Quote: parusnik

"The Germans will come - they will give everyone a job. The Germans are a cultural nation, advanced, civilized ..."

And this is generally - either drunk or foolish.

About the Germans ---- everything is so! Only, in some other articles, instead of praise to the Germans, there may be praise to the whites or there are little Brittoms, or someone else. And why should we know, Vyacheslav, what you drink? Yes, please. Drink yourself!

[parusnik]

And this is generally - either drunk or foolish... Of course you couldn’t write differently ... You see, if you write, then honestly .. look at the Russian press for almost 400 years ... Without 70 years of the Soviet period ... But more poison was poured over this period. .. than for the remaining 300 years .. We galloped over this period, they say they choked freedom of speech. and so it was not bad enough .. And with an appetite we pulled up the Soviet period .. I’ll come off .. but you can’t objectively write about all periods ... By the way, you, as a journalist, are repeating the same mistakes ..

[Reptiloid]

The thing is that distortion occurs all the time, or something. The lie is not direct, so to speak, but as if it were Vyacheslav Olegovich himself, a teacher and a candidate of historical sciences does not know what he is obliged to know by job. Though about that newspaper, before the Second World War. Forgot the exact number.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Reptiloid

........ Though about that newspaper, before the Second World War. Forgot the exact number.

How many times Vyacheslav Olegovich mentioned the TRUTH of 14.06.41/XNUMX/XNUMX. And at the same time mentioned that I would be very surprised! Why be surprised? This message was not addressed to Hitler, but addressed to the European powers. Knowing the story, how and what happened before and after --- I understand this. Although, I heard that the historian Martirosyan exposes the de-Stalinization and wrote about it, but has not read it yet. Until the evening.

[kalibr]

Quote: parusnik

They galloped over this period, they say, they choked freedom of speech. and so it was not pretty bad.

It’s just the opposite. Does memory fail? About the "strangulation of freedom of speech" AT ALL WAS NOT A WORD. No fantasy! In the first materials about this there is NO WORDS. Ah ah! No need to slander! But ... I'm glad you wrote that. The rule of information management is as follows. A “simple person” (not a specialist) forgets everything by 80% after 90 days. And after 180? There remain crumbs! Thank you for once again confirming this clearly!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: kalibr

This is a "debriefing" that today journalists did not repeat such mistakes. We study the past to improve today!

And then, in the future, the same historian will write about today's PR lies. Like Comrade Shpakovsky taught his students not to work with their hands, but to deceive people. Not good...

[kalibr]

Do not cheat, Mordvin 3, by no means! They will tell you that I always tell them: "High moral behavior is always rational." Yesterday I just repeated at the seminar!

[Mordvin 3]

Just like cheating. For the first time in my life I decided to buy a watch via the Internet, (my Amphibian ordered a long life), I was so amazed at how much the price range, despite the fact that everyone has "discounts" and offers are "profitable". The price range for the same model is already 200 times. And rationality is interrupted by the very "easy money". After all, they themselves said that your studios earn money on cars.

[kalibr]

And there are always more threes and fools than ... good ones. So they are cheating!

[Cheburator]

But is there a saying - insert a feather in one place?
In my opinion it sounds like this: a flag in hand and a pen in ...
Now I understand why)

[Cheburator]

But I like it more - "feather under the rib"))

[Monarchist]

Once I talked with a front-line soldier and he said that they were looking for in the newspaper: about the second front, Kukryniksy’s cartoons and Erinburg’s feuilleton, and everything else was unimportant to the soldiers

[Mordvin 3]

Yes, they generally went on a roll. And today's ads are just as raucous. I’m looking for a watch for myself, I’m reading type customer reviews, everything is written under one carbon copy. Super, delivered on time, very satisfied. Already sick of this lie. So today's propaganda is no different from that time. As the saying goes, a bitter truth is better than a sweet lie. So a respected author could try on this nonsense. After all, he’s special for PR.

[tasha]

Enraged by its tremendous losses, which can no longer be hidden and more difficult to replenish, vaguely, through the fog of alcohol and blood, realizing the inevitability of the ultimate defeat in the World War, the German army covers itself with shame; she tortures and kills prisoners. So, take the rank of scoundrel, the German Nazi army! Here are the facts:

“The Germans put me, wounded and captured west of the city of Velikiye Luki, into a barn where there were 13 captured Red Army men and one captain. After about 10, we were all taken out of the barn and built in one line. Then a German soldier incapacitated the captain and two Red Army men. A series of Germans, the soldiers began to shoot point-blank at the captain, shot him in the right, then the left arm, then the left leg and the right leg. When the captain fell, one of the German soldiers bent down and cut off his nose with a knife, then his ears and the end of the knife gouged out his eyes. The captain's body shuddered convulsively. Then another soldier shot him in the chest and killed him.

With two Red Army soldiers and German soldiers did the same. All Germans were drunk.

After the execution, we, the survivors, were ordered to bury the prisoners and again they drove us into the barn. For three days they gave us neither water nor bread. At night we made a dig and left. ” (Red Armyman Bystrakov D.E.).

“Near the collective farm“ Plowman ”we found the corpse of the Red Army soldier Hoffmann. Both hands were chopped off, his eyes gouged out, his tongue cut off. An 5-terminal star was laid out next to his corpse from the stumps of his hands. ” (Collective farmer Petrova).

“In the village of Okhotichi, I saw 2 the corpse of the tortured commanders of the Red Army. The peasants said that the Germans standing in this village captured these lieutenants. They were ordered to strip naked and interrogators beat them with anything and pricked with bayonets, and then stabbed. Their bodies were covered with stab wounds.

Here in Bykhov, on the square, 4 barbed wire cages were built. They contain in each person 200 — wounded Red Army soldiers, red commanders and non-military — Soviet and party workers, many of them 15 — 16-year-old Komsomol members.

The Germans do not feed these prisoners in cages, daily pour a little water into the trough so that people dying of thirst drink on all fours and throw a dozen raw potatoes into the cage. I personally saw how a fascist soldier threw a skin torn from a ram into a cage. Prisoners gnawed at this skin. If a person wants to move from place to place in a cage, German sentries shoot him. I don’t know what happened to these unfortunates, I managed to escape ... ”(Military lawyer M. Kapustyansky).

“Our unit knocked out the Germans from the village of Ya. In the courtyard of a house, we found 7 killed Red Army soldiers. Everyone's legs are chopped off. One has a stomach open. This was done by the Germans before fleeing the village. ” (Machine gunner Peter Fanaryin).

Enough! The list of tortures and torments of captured, in most cases wounded, soldiers of the Red Army is very long. These are not isolated sad cases, this is the system of education of the German army. Instead of dehumanizing a German soldier, he, the machine gun, is allowed to unleash dark instincts within himself: a potential libertine - dissolute, a potential tormentor - torture, enjoy dying screams, blow up your nostrils, a potential thief - steal. For this, when necessary, you will die for the sake of Hitler’s psychopathic ambition, for the sake of the Goering concerns and other bastards, who divided all six continents of the globe in advance.

A. Tolstoy || Pravda No. 241, 31 of August 1941 of the year

[Mikado]

Alexey Nikolaevich did not survive these scenes. He was on the crime commission. Too quickly from his experience his health deteriorated.

[tasha]

Vyacheslav Olegovich! Still, I repeat that in my opinion you are not very well choose examples for articles. Much of what you wrote may be the subject of discussion, much is relevant now, but was not suitable for that time. Sometimes it just feels like you are picking pieces from newspapers that fit your views on theory .... Regards ...

[Reptiloid]

Quote: tasha

Vyacheslav Olegovich! Still, I repeat that in my opinion you are not very well choose examples for articles. Much of what you wrote may be the subject of discussion, much is relevant now, but was not suitable for that time. Sometimes it just feels like you are picking pieces from newspapers that fit your views on theory .... Regards ...

And what theory ???? DESTALINIZATION !!!! That's what!!!!!

[kalibr]

Dmitry, sometimes it is better to remain silent than to say ... De-Stalinization is a fait accompli, whether you like it or not. The material is not about this, but about information management methods. It is clear that you do not have a higher journalistic education, so the first thing that comes to your mind is that you blurt out.

[Reptiloid]

Khrushchev de-Stalinized. Brezhnev fixed it. What is the attempt of de-Stalinization going now? But ---- on the rise, a proposal of the law is available. Your articles and comments often resonate with the slogans of others. And so what? Naturally, you are not alone. And who has the highest journalism here? Maybe someone has one.

[kalibr]

I agree with that. But what you wrote was DE FACTO, it is now proposed to complete at the level of DE JURE, what is wrong with that? It's time to "give all the sisters earrings!"

[Reptiloid]

But the bad thing is that living in today's Russia, due to the legacy of Stalin, pugs bark at the elephant. And they produce these pugs for the country ---- only waste.

[parusnik]

Sometimes it just feels like you're picking pieces from newspapers that fit your views on theory ..

... So I get the impression ...

[BAI]

At the same time, reports of the abuse of the Nazis by the civilian population [1] and Soviet prisoners of war [2] appeared in newspapers in the very first days of the war. But here it’s quite clear there is a lack of a deep understanding of the problem. So, for example, in all publications reporting the bullying of German fascists over Soviet prisoners of war, they are captured when they are wounded!

In my opinion, the author has a misunderstanding of the problem. There is a war of extermination, it is necessary to raise the morale of the soldiers and the motivation of the civilian population. And here to paint what kind people and civilizers came to Soviet land? Thank God there were no Kolya boys from Urengoy then.
And it is quite logical that there were no such pictures in print, and that was absolutely right!

And it was necessary to publish this:

or that:

The author’s accusations against the Soviet press are akin to accusations against a man who used an unacceptable technique in the sports arena against an adversary in a deadly combat.
After all, they wrote already that it is impossible to approach the events of those days with the standards of today.

[cth; fyn]

The main thing is to draw the right conclusions and not repeat in the future

[Luga]

At the initial stage of the war, the propaganda goals are simple, clear and correct:
1. To arouse personal hatred of the enemy.
2. Convince the people of the inevitability of our victory.
3. Convince each individual person of the need and usefulness personal, at the limit of power, the contribution of each to the fight.
Proceeding from these goals, materials were also written to newspapers, which can also be divided into three groups:
1. The Germans are non-humans, animals, sadists, they need to be killed ruthlessly and mercilessly and this will not be a murder. (My grandfather served in regimental intelligence and, although he didn’t like to talk about the war, he wasn’t a talker, he personally killed about a dozen Germans, from a machine gun and in hand-to-hand combat. And no remorse, bad dreams, etc. . And the pig could not prick).
2. The situation of the Germans is awful - the economic and political collapse is about to come, you need to endure a little and Germany will crumble. From this point it was more difficult, but it was absolutely necessary, people had not what to believe, but knowthat "victory will be ours", that it is inevitable and close, that you need to press a little more with all your might and that’s all - victory. And they clicked. And more, and more. And yet they finished off in four years.
3. The feat can be accomplished by anyone, the most ordinary Soviet people make them daily, every hour. Everyone can accomplish the feat - big and small, weak and strong, with a higher education and with three classes, the main thing is perseverance and resilience. And even if you are left alone in the position, stand to the last, because there is one soldier in the field, if he is stalled and ready for self-sacrifice.
By the way, it would probably be interesting to analyze the shifts of the main accents of Soviet propaganda in the context of changing the situation on the fronts. For example, towards the end of the war, there was more talk about the need to improve the combat skills, the international fraternity of working people
Author note

[Mikado]

My grandfather served in regimental intelligence and, according to him, although he did not like to talk about the war, and was not a talker, he personally killed about a dozen Germans, from a machine gun and in hand-to-hand combat. And no remorse, scary dreams, etc. A pig could not stab

Michael, I have long had such thoughts. Now, no matter what the war, thousands of people with disfigured souls are returning home after it. Who cannot find themselves in a peaceful life.
So ... I do not remember anywhere in my memories that one of ours complained about life. And so that someone goes crazy after the war, according to sources.
But the Allies were crazy for a bunch of people, psychiatric losses exceeded the irrevocable! There is a cult book by Marine Lackie, "A helmet instead of a pillow." Reading it, the feeling that the author was more worried about inconvenience than war. At least more space in the description is given to them.
What is it? just a difference of memories, or a difference of mentalities?

[BAI]

So ... I do not remember anywhere in my memories that one of ours complained about life.

My father told me that in the spring of 1944 they spent a week without a break in the floodplains of the Dniester waist-deep in ice-cold water (they put a mortar on the back of a soldier) and no one got sick. No colds and colds!

[Luga]

Quote: Mikado

What is it? just a difference of memories, or a difference of mentalities?

Who knows, Nikolai?
I suppose there is a brain defensive response to stress. My grandfather had stress, despite the fact that he personally killed a dozen people, deliberately killed, deliberately and saw how they die, was not. In his mind, the Germans were not perceived as people, just like himself - this is the very defense. And this, of course, was helped by propaganda.
Surely there were those who did not succumb to propaganda or did not succumb to such an extent, or the propaganda was not so effective, they saw in the enemies of the people - it was harder for them. We had to artificially divert the brain to minor problems, which could be household comforts, or rather, their absence. It is much more comfortable to worry about the lack of pillows, hot meals, or women, than because you just participated in a massacre of people, during which you personally had to feel the thrill of a living body that you planted on a bayonet, or to hear the crunch of the skull that you smashed with the butt.
In everyday life, such mechanisms are constantly involved: “everyone does this,” “he was the first to start,” etc. In order not to worry too much if you do something that goes with your moral attitudes.

[Mikado]

It is much more comfortable to worry about the lack of a pillow, hot food, or a woman, than because you just participated in the massacre of people, during which you personally had to feel the thrill of a living body that you put on a bayonet, or hear the crunch of the skull that you smashed with the blow of the butt.

I think that the last role was played by the fact that our soldiers saw much more “art” of the occupiers than the allies. Those could try to treat the Germans as opponents. Ours, it seems, was treated like murderers.

[Reptiloid]

Nikolay, it seems to me that there is only one answer in this question, this is a call ----- OUR BUSINESS IS RIGHT! WE WILL WIN! It all explains. This is the most important thing. Therefore, this is how our Defenders of the Homeland behaved and keep doing it.

[Mikado]

Nikolay, it seems to me that there is only one answer in this question, this is a call ----- OUR BUSINESS IS RIGHT! WE WILL WIN! It all explains. This is the most important thing. Therefore, this is how our Defenders of the Homeland behaved and keep doing it.

You're right. But there is one caveat. Ours at war was easier with the experience of "military psychological trauma" - we really were right, we fought back, freed and avenged what the Germans did to our country.
It seems that the motivation among the allies was somewhat different.

[Reptiloid]

The point here is, in my opinion, that this appeal is clear to everyone and everyone --- it is necessary to protect and preserve not only oneself, but also relatives, relatives, territory --- everything, starting from the Little Homeland and beyond. And now, on the other hand, we hear slogans about the defense of democracy. And very differently understand this generals, soldiers. What is the motivation? Ambiguity. Probably before they had it. Slogans are one, but inside another.

[kalibr]

No, Dmitry! You will not be full of slogans alone. Information management is very complex. We must pay attention not only to how it acts today, but also how it will respond to people tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, etc. And now we see that mistakes were made in the matter of informing, which subsequently yielded negative results. You can’t look at everything so one-sidedly.

[Luga]

Quote: Mikado

I think that our soldiers have seen a lot more "arts" of the invaders,

About my grandfather, in any case, I can say that he did not see the German "arts". He fought in 42 for only three months near Rzhev, was injured, lost a leg.
When I, a naive fifteen-year-old kid, asked my grandfather if he had killed in a war, he replied that he had killed about ten Germans, but he didn’t exactly count. And then in the course of further conversation I said something like "but you killed ten people." And he said so calmly, casually: “We didn’t consider them as people”. He told a lot more that evening ..
But then, when he fought, in 42, no one knew about the German "death factories", our correspondents who wrote about the tortured Red Army men did not even represent the real extent of Nazi terror, compared to which one tortured officer or soldier just a slight pale episode. All this began to be opened only when our people went ahead and began to liberate their territory, in which the Germans were in charge for years.
More, by the way, since then I have never been able to talk about war with my grandfather, although I have repeatedly tried. Once I just got him to talk. He died when I was 23.

[Glory1974]

I don’t remember anywhere in my memories that one of ours complained about life. And so that someone goes crazy after the war, according to sources.

The Vietnam Syndrome appeared among the Americans when, from the jungle battles, soldiers on airplanes got home in a peaceful environment in a few hours. Not everyone could quickly rebuild here. And during the Second World War I did not hear that there were all sorts of syndromes neither in them, nor even in our country.

[Mikado]

And during the Second World War I did not hear that there were all sorts of syndromes neither in them, nor even in our country.

they had! The title of the book is "A helmet instead of a pillow." There is a milter, for free. Losses went crazy for them were almost higher than those killed.

[kalibr]

Especially during the landing on the islands of Tarawa and Iwo Jima!

[Mikado]

there was generally an ass. At first, the Americans lost a lot of people (or did not lose. Everything depended on art and air training), then the Japanese began to iron everything that was at hand, from battleships to bombers, tanks and flamethrowers. As a rule, during the storming of each atoll, not a single Japanese was left alive.

[sigdoc]

I remember Guderian wrote in his memoirs that on the first day of the war they discovered the bodies of their scouts brutally tortured by the Red Army. The author could for comparison give at least some information about such actions of the enemy. Gebeels will forever remain the champion of lies.
So the author is trying to say that the Russians are forbidden to fight tanks against tanks, against planes against planes, against propaganda by propaganda, such as inhumane.

[Mikado]

do not drive the author, he did not say this, you thought of it. Yours faithfully!
But the Finns in many ways outdid the Germans atrocities. Post is not worth it, there is a horror; whoever needs, let him type in the search "Baltiets, revenge! "Just after the war, they" forgot "about this for the sake of a good relationship. And the Finns learned a lesson.

[3x3zsave]

I will support! It seems that the author can equally professionally arrange a retrospective analysis of the English-language press, moreover, in the original language. But sadness, few people understand and few people are interested from the participants in the discussion. And this despite the fact that it was the English-language school of propaganda that turned out to be the leader in the 20th century.

[kalibr]

Yes, I also read "Crystallizing the Public" by E. Burneys and S. Black, and Arthur Poinsonby. The book "How to Penetrate the system" was completely read in English. In 2005, my graduate student defended her. By the way, extracts from the book of Poinsonby, not all of it, but a lot of it, we have in Russian in translation. Type, Arthur Poynsonby "Lies during the war" (1928) and everything will be revealed to you. It was from this book, by the way, that Goebbels took most of his "wise" statements about propaganda. Therefore, it’s always funny to read to me that he was a “master of propaganda." Threesome, from strength ...

[BAI]

Interestingly, and who reproaches the Soviet press?

The main theme around which this image of the enemy was formed was, of course, publications about the monstrous atrocities of the Nazis in the USSR.
... But here, too, a lack of a deep understanding of the problem can be clearly seen.

Or is it such praise?

[akunin]

I was 13 years old when I caught a file of the “light” for 42 years and there is a series of stories about the atrocities of the Nazis + stories - reports about Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya. after reading I was ready to cut, chop and burn the Germans alive, everyone, even women and children. I saw and I heard a living Levitan - strength. current propaganda is a soap opera. all: "time will tell", "voting right", "meeting place" and so on. where the same faces and overflow from empty to empty

[kalibr]

Quote: Mordvin 3

So today's propaganda is no different from that time. As the saying goes, a bitter truth is better than a sweet lie. So a respected author could try on this nonsense. After all, he’s special for PR.

That's bad! Very bad. When the past teaches nothing. But the book "PR-design and PR-promotion" I still wrote. You can buy and read - you will learn a lot of interesting things!

[kalibr]

Enough! The list of tortures and torments of captured, in most cases wounded, soldiers of the Red Army is very long. These are not isolated sad cases, this is the system of education of the German army. Instead of dehumanizing a German soldier, he, the machine gun, is allowed to unleash dark instincts within himself: a potential libertine - dissolute, a potential tormentor - torture, enjoy dying screams, blow up your nostrils, a potential thief - steal. For this, when necessary, you will die for the sake of Hitler’s psychopathic ambition, for the sake of the Goering concerns and other bastards, who divided all six continents of the globe in advance.
A. Tolstoy || "Truth" No. 241, August 31, 1941 [/ quote]
But it was just that positive that is always present in any business ... That is, in the sense of informing!

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

The author’s accusations against the Soviet press are akin to accusations against a man who used an unacceptable technique in the sports arena against an adversary in a deadly combat.

He had to apply the WORKSHOP techniques! Clear?

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

He had to apply the WORKSHOP techniques! Clear?

No one can guess how our word will respond ......... He had to fly in a time machine, see how it is in the future and what, get advice, how best to return to your present and act according to the laws of the future.

[kalibr]

To write well, you don’t have to fly a time machine. And to think with your head - no need!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

To write well, you don’t have to fly a time machine. And to think with your head - no need!

We have already noticed this, according to your libel.

[Mikado]

maybe enough already deal with masturbation on unscientific communism? write the agitation yourself. lately there are too many .... Yours will not be superfluous. Tired. I'm ready for the ban. But I was tired of the desire of some individuals to pray for the "holy communists." Although it was the old seniors who laid the "bomb" under the economy, and laid the caste of "untouchables and irremovable." Ah, they thought of the people! And they lived .. better than the people? Maybe it was worth not stamping unnecessary tanks, but inventing computer systems? Or produce refrigerators? And do not push clearly unnecessary internationalism? AND?
I'm ready for the ban! Complain! Tired! They are sitting on the couch, and everyone is praying for communism: "Lenin will come, and there will be order!" He will not come. They won’t give him. We live in the 21st century. Raise the fifth point, and go make money.

[Reptiloid]

And what was that, Nikolai! ?? An attempt at a public hara-kiri? But we are not Japanese. And perhaps someone might not like your opinion. Everyone has the right. Why so nervous and scream.
And after all, here’s what, Vyacheslav Olegovich, as he said, cliques are important. And only a difference of opinion provides an argument and clicks. For this, he writes articles of various contents. That's what! Respectfully. Take something there, either on nature, or with a girl ..... Everything will be normal. We need you healthy without harakiri.

Quote: Mikado

maybe enough already deal with masturbation on unscientific communism? write the agitation yourself. lately there are too many .... Yours will not be superfluous. Tired. I'm ready for the ban. But I was tired of the desire of some individuals to pray for the "holy communists." Although it was the old seniors who laid the "bomb" under the economy, and laid the caste of "untouchables and irremovable." Ah, they thought of the people! And they lived .. better than the people? Maybe it was worth not stamping unnecessary tanks, but inventing computer systems? Or produce refrigerators? And do not push clearly unnecessary internationalism? AND?
I'm ready for the ban! Complain! Tired! They are sitting on the couch, and everyone is praying for communism: "Lenin will come, and there will be order!" He will not come. They won’t give him. We live in the 21st century. Raise the fifth point, and go make money.

Waiting for your article on the Leningrad region.

[Mikado]

There is no inspiration for me to write about the Leningrad Region, Dmitry. Everything has already been written without me, moreover, by professional local historians. Such things are deep, precisely on the development of material! Although there are ideas ... Wait and see. I apologized to Alexander for being too harsh.

[Reptiloid]

Nikolay, I’ll just say that it seems to me that it doesn’t matter what others do there! How many people wrote books and made films on the same topics. Eternal!

[Mikado]

writing a compilation is not interesting .... you have to go and rewrite it in your own words.

[Alexander Greene]

[quote = Mikado] maybe stop already masturbation to unscientific communism [/ Quote]

Something I did not quite understand this expression, explain: is it a stone in my garden or not?

[quote = Mikado] They are sitting on the couch, and everyone is praying for communism: "Lenin will come, and there will be order!" He will not come. They won’t give him. In the 21st century we live [/ quote]

But this does not depend on you. This is an objective process. As I understand it - from this you are enraged.

[Mikado]

Something I did not quite understand this expression, explain: is it a stone in my garden or not?

Yes to yours, to yours. I just imagined that now there will be an eternal discussion about communism. He said too sharply, for this I offer my deepest apologies to you, Alexander! (just for sharpness!)

But this does not depend on you. This is an objective process. As I understand it - from this you are enraged.

I'm not scared. Although I do not like much now. It used to be communism, now it's frenzied capitalism. Nobody will let us change the situation. In any case, precisely in any social order, only those with a "stigma in the cannon" will be at the top. In every country. Because in order to be at the top, a person will have to go through a certain cycle, get acquainted with the “right people”, remove competitors, etc.
Many talk about communism. They won’t let you do it! Revolution? With every revolution, smart and honest are massively slaughtered! And they will cut the most lumps, writing in the front doors in a booze. And no matter how pure thoughts move the power of the revolution, the bastards will still be above.
We must live in new conditions.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Mikado

We must live in new conditions.

Thank you for the apology, but I didn’t take offense at you, for the last 30 years I’m already used to it.
And about "... living in new conditions" I will answer philosophically: If this is life, then what kind of torment?
Today, ordinary people are cut without a knife. Today, only those who grab public property live, well, those who justify the new owners and wage an ideological struggle against us live a little better.

[kalibr]

Are we this 4th Alexander?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Are we this 4th Alexander?

Which you are not understanding. We are fans of your writing talent.

[BAI]

He had to apply the WORKSHOP techniques! Clear?

But should he not explain the technology for producing graffen?
Correspondents of 41-45 years owe nothing to anyone. They often received information under bullets and wrote articles without a higher education, as they could, as they felt. And blaming them for not using 21st century PR technology, at least immorality. Do you understand this?

[kalibr]

They, ignorant you, Mr., did not use the technology of the 20s of the XX century already known! This is what we are talking about, not the technologies of the XNUMXst century, which you, by the way, have no idea. You immediately write on Ehrenburg and Gaidar, and that it is so hard to figure out that there were just a few of them, and the basic level was extremely low? "Savsem is bad, yes, he has become, the head has not thought Sovsem, yes ?!" Yes, it’s a narrow specialist, and even more so, “SS” is still that flux ...

[BAI]

Who are famous? Many higher education did not have. And there were no others. To make such claims to them is the same as blaming the newly appointed commanders of the Red Army after the reprisals for the lack of experience of the First World War. Knowing you is ours.

[kalibr]

So yesterday’s cooks children can’t make claims - "They are the children"? And who commanders of the Red Army repressed? Can I go to them? Or who shot Koltsov? He was also a journalist, because ... Who can I do? Or not to anyone? Or is it forbidden to anyone? Where is the logic?

[kalibr]

Quote: Mikado

or the difference in mentality?

Last thing!!!

[Mikado]

and motivation! In post-war conflicts, motivation was different.

[kalibr]

Quote: sigdoc

So the author is trying to say that the Russians are forbidden to fight tanks against tanks, against planes against planes, against propaganda by propaganda, such as inhumane.

It's not so hard to learn to think about what you read. There is skill, and there is mediocrity .... mediocrity we had, unfortunately, in abundance. There were only a few such as Ehrenburg ... This article is about it ... It’s not clear at once - I advise you to read it again!

[kalibr]

Quote: Luga

By the way, it would probably be interesting to analyze the shifts of the main accents of Soviet propaganda in the context of changing the situation on the fronts. For example, towards the end of the war, there was more talk about the need to improve the combat skills, the international fraternity of working people

This will be further, not all in one material!

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

And here to paint what kind people and civilizers came to Soviet land?

I see the very thing that Prutkov wrote about with you — the specialist is like a flux. You wrote 33 SS material, but you are a little unable to understand elementary things and this is the second time. First, about grants and fees in scientific journals abroad, now this ... Where is the article about "good-natured people"? This "Pravda" wrote about the fact that the Germans did not want to fight, not me. There was no need to write about something else - in each issue there is a letter from a German soldier. You just had to be dumb in order to believe that censorship and the Gestapo would miss it. Stupid it was a joy, of course, but not all the same. So why substitute? This also led to a loss of confidence with the press of the party and government, and this could not be allowed. Clear? Or not? Then this is just the case: how to put on my belt ...

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

Its task is to spill mud on Soviet newspapers and radio.

Untruth - only ignoramuses and lay people everywhere and always. By the way, my proposal regarding you from the previous comment, alas, is confirmed ...

[BAI]

Take the articles of Simonov, Sholokhov, Tolstoy, Ehrenburg, Gaidar, finally. And on their example prove their lack of professionalism. It is easy to mock already dead people who cannot answer.

[kalibr]

Is the article talking about the lack of professionalism of these authors? Even though they are mentioned somewhere?

[BAI]

Have you read your article?

But here, too, a lack of a deep understanding of the problem can be clearly traced.

[kalibr]

Quote: tasha

Sometimes it just feels like you're picking pieces from newspapers that fit your views on theory ...

Of course! And so they all do! And you do not like these pieces - go and choose others. Add up ... it will be your theme and your vision. Am I against it? But mine is such. And it has its own value. It is possible that this is understandable not for everyone. But this is their difficulty.

[tasha]

And so they all do! And you do not like these pieces - go and choose others.

Yeah .. Wow ...
I will quote you "sometimes it is better to remain silent than to speak ...". Sometimes you would be better off keeping silent and not publishing such articles. What good materials you get on neutral topics, weapons or a series about castles ...

So you also write textbooks for future journalists and information management specialists ... Also, be proud of the positive reviews .. I can’t judge the experts who professionally evaluate your work, but ... Will the raven not peck out a crow?

[Reptiloid]

With these textbooks ----- naive beyond his years. After all, the author himself has repeatedly spoken about the priority of the West in various fields. But their PR textbooks are certainly in ++++., Compared to the author’s textbooks. The masses were translated for sale and without any anti-Sovietism, because those authors do not want to get up at the expense of our dead correspondents. Clean, uncomplicated PR.

[kalibr]

You still, Dmitry, write that you read them - and it will be absolutely excellent!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

You still, Dmitry, write that you read them - and it will be absolutely excellent!

Why cheat? I read about them, reviews, excerpts, or rather some chapters on the network. Maybe I’ll read it. Here the problem is that we need to quickly. While I choose on the network ---- they disappear from the sale.
ABOUT THE LAW OF PARETO. So far, no one wrote that he read it. I was waiting for at least Anton or someone else to read, and I would study the review. Not wait! I remembered that there was such a book MOTTERS, then continued .... like a VA-BANK, like an author, I forgot, Henri .. somehow .. Then there is also a white guard of a crystal bakery about hunting ..... Here I have vague doubts in this thread .... But there’s not enough time. Although the article about the armored train is one of my favorite on the VO.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Reptiloid

ABOUT THE LAW OF PARETO. So far no one wrote that they read it

It is an interesting law. Briefly - 20% of people taking a minimum of effort get the maximum result, and vice versa. Well, in Russian modern realities, if as they say 10% of the rich own 90% of Russia's property, then we have a 1 to 9 ratio. That is, 90% making the maximum effort receive 10% of the result. Sloppy wrote a little, but something like that.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: Reptiloid

ABOUT THE LAW OF PARETO. So far no one wrote that they read it

It is an interesting law. ............. Sloppy wrote a little, but something like that.

Good afternoon, Vladimir! Thank you for writing about the law, but our oligarchs have remade this Pareto for themselves. !!
But in this case, we are talking about the book of VYACHESLAV OLEGOVICH with that title. This is a multi-volume work, and by our standards it’s not cheap, so ~~~~ 500 $$$, or a little more. Article about the armored train UNITED RUSSIA ----- the head of one part.
What do I like? I learned new things about the armored warning, which I had never imagined before. In RUSSIA, the USSR --- in this regard, completely unique events occurred. After that I learned a lot about armored trains.

[Mordvin 3]

Hello, boyar. Wow, how much Vyacheslav Olegovich was heating up. Well, actually the oligarchs did not redo it, it’s just that this law is suitable for any country. Even in the socialist. Only there the ratio was completely different.

[Mikado]

ABOUT THE LAW OF PARETO. So far, no one wrote that he read it.

Pareto law is on torrents, you can download. Vyacheslav Olegovich posted links. The only thing I checked was to download with antivirus. "Casper" gives out a dangerous link.
About the law itself .... You know, Dmitry, I believe in it more and more. Look at the statistics of voting on the "minuses". You can also see "Samson tales", or articles about "communism", and the number of comments below them. And the statistics of the elections .... Coincides, an error of 2-3 percent!

[Reptiloid]

That's while I was going to order "" Mythological archetypes of modern advertising ---- Klinga disappeared. Now called!

Quote: kalibr

You still, Dmitry, write that you read them - and it will be absolutely excellent!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Reptiloid

.... their textbooks .... A lot of translations on sale and without any
anti-Sovietism, because those authors do not want to rise at the expense of our dead correspondents. Clean, uncomplicated PR.

Only businesssss! Nothing personal! Only advice, as a result of which $$$$ of one person will easily and naturally come into the pocket of another.

[kalibr]

BAI Myself, it’s not necessary to classify oneself with everyone, right ?!

[BAI]

BAI Myself doesn’t have to be counted among all, right ?!

Quote where in my comments the words “EVERYTHING”. You answer to the wrong opponent that once again emphasizes your qualifications.

[Glory1974]

Meanwhile, writing about the captured Red Army men, proceeding from the fact that “the soldiers of the Red Army are not surrendering,” was not at all necessary. Do not give up and all! Nor should we put in the newspaper data on the number of our prisoners. Like, the Germans write them 3,5 million, but in fact only 500 thousand. But even such a figure at that time looked simply monstrous.

Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, you once again urge you to lie, only to lie expertly, and not like in the newspapers of that time. Forgetting at the same time that the Soviet Union collapsed also because no one believed official propaganda.
Meanwhile, according to the historian Isaev, the Germans throughout the war registered 5 million shoots of prisoners. That is, every prisoner tried to escape at least 2 times! And the NKVD during the whole war registered about 700 Germans escapes.
Attention is the question: whose propaganda was more effective?

[BAI]

You can add - Hitler sentenced in absentia Levitan to death. Which of the German announcers was sentenced to death in the USSR?

[Alexander Greene]

The author in his role: writes filthy articles - one after another. He would try to write this when real veterans were still alive.

[kalibr]

He wrote a lot, and everyone had links to sources. It's simple: lift the seat, stomp into the archive and follow the links to see what and how. And creeps out ... mediocrity. In general ... And then you yourself write that petty-bourgeois psychology in the USSR caused its collapse. I am for!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

He wrote a lot, and everyone had links to sources. It's simple: lift the seat, stomp into the archive and follow the links to see what and how. And creeps out ... mediocrity. In general ... And then you yourself write that petty-bourgeois psychology in the USSR caused its collapse.

Firstly, sources are good, but bad how you present them. After all, it is well known that as you report, they will be accepted. And you write without taking into account the historical framework, and do not even understand this, and continue to mock at the memory of our fathers.
Secondly, where did you find the petty-bourgeois consciousness of the Soviet people during the war? Then it was: Everything for the front - everything for the Victory! Petty-bourgeois psychology emerged after the war. What do you have to understand that the process of changing the mass consciousness is long, it doesn’t happen that you fell asleep one, but woke up the other.

[kalibr]

Find and print your comment? "Petty-bourgeois psychology emerged after the war." Why did she start up? From dust or what? The village constantly went to the city and brought this psychology with it. "What do you have to understand that the process of changing the mass consciousness is long, it doesn’t happen that you fall asleep one, but wake up - the other." So it cannot be that it came from nowhere? So it was during the war years, if it came later. Consciousness in itself does not arise, it comes from grandfathers, mothers and grandmothers!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

You need to find and print your comment?

You not only think, but also do not know how to read carefully. I did not write that "MB Psychology appeared... "I wrote:" M-B psychology manifested itself ... Feel the difference?
Many representatives of the Soviet people, especially the peasantry, always had a petty-bourgeois consciousness, but it was neutralized by the collectivist consciousness of the working class, including MTS workers, until the working class suffered heavy losses during the war. In addition, we have about 70 million people who were in the occupied territory, where in order to survive we had to engage in scrubbing, small business, and even theft, and this does not add socialist consciousness. This petty-bourgeois mass swept the whole country. While I.V. was alive Stalin restrained this wave, and after his death, Khrushchev became the spokesman for the aspirations of all this mass.

[Reptiloid]

Good day, Alexander! After Stalin's death, changes in the leadership came into effect (decrease in rotation, horizontal movement became more, the term party-economic asset appeared and much more, for example, a change in the payment system for rational proposals ....) Just these changes characterize the development of bourgeois psychology above, due to closer contacts with overseas.
It seems to me that the population that created the recovery from the Second World War received an example of this psychology from above. BUT .... not yet read everything on the topic.

[kalibr]

Who cares? The main thing that was and that the scoop was doomed initially!

[Reptiloid]

He liberated his country and others from the Nazis. He restored the people's economy! Cosmos studied and settled.

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

You can add - Hitler sentenced in absentia Levitan to death. Which of the German announcers was sentenced to death in the USSR?

What for? Although in this we did the right thing. This is an example of good information management on our part and wrong with German! But you, I see, understand this is not available.

[BAI]

I just gave this example, not you. On your part - only negative ones. You remember about positive examples (like with a movie) only when the deceit and tendentiousness of your conclusions becomes too obvious (even to you).

[kalibr]

There is no deceit with links to the source. You can always check and argue with the author. You can’t argue without reading. However, what to take from you, you write to "SS". Everything is different there, probably. But in this case, I do not see the point in boasting. What was good in general is already well known and much has been written about it. So it’s tendentious ... Yes, why not? Would you like to write about the positive materials of Pravda? Write! Who's stopping !!! But in my opinion it is necessary to write about what others did not write about. And instructive! In order not to repeat all sorts of nonsense.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

There is no deceit with links to the source.

It happens. Each author sees in the links only what he wants. Such an example.
In the novel "On Fire", Henri Barbus, describing one of the battles of the First World War on the Western Front, writes that the French army was experiencing a huge shell hunger, and the enemy (Germany) was constantly raiding them.
Erich Maria Remarque, in turn, describing the same battle in his novel “On the Western Front Without Change”, also wrote that the German army is experiencing great hunger, but the enemy fired on them continuously.
So who to believe?

[kalibr]

This is fiction, not non-fiction! Where did you see links to documents there? Do you understand the difference, or quite ... that?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

This is fiction, not non-fiction! Where did you see links to documents there? Do you understand the difference, or quite ... that?

Dear, do not la la: that - not that, do you consider your writings to be scientific? Do not tell, you have the most real fiction, and the lowest standard. Your pen is not driven by a scientist, but by a PR journalist who chases after the fried facts and then presents them in the form in which they are ordered.
But Barbusse and Remarque are serious people, they wrote their novels on the basis of historical documents and, in my opinion, were even participants in those events, but the genre of the novel does not provide for links. But they did not escape the subjective assessments of the same event. So links are not a guarantee against erroneous evaluations of great writers and from the deceit of PR journalists.

[kalibr]

Specialists of the Higher Attestation Commission - there is such an organization in the Russian Federation and is very serious, for some reason they think differently. But then again, all the links are at your service. You raise it ... you go ... wherever it would be to send you ... closer, but ... I remembered it - to the archive, to the library ... where there is the TRUTH of those years and read it to your health. Then write your material - “Pravda” of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (b) shout of victory!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Specialists of the Higher Attestation Commission - there is such an organization in the Russian Federation and is very serious, for some reason they think otherwise.

Now there are no serious organizations. One of my acquaintances defended his doctorate in newspaper articles, the other, just laughter and sin, received an assistant professor in the technical department, having included patents for inventions instead of patents for inventions. trademarks. So I give you the most objective assessment.

[kalibr]

Quote: glory1974

Attention is the question: whose propaganda was more effective?

Our, of course! But the point is that its effectiveness could easily be increased significantly. And to avoid many negative consequences. And I urge not to lie - but masterfully tell the truth!
Moreover, German propaganda was based on the false ideology of racial superiority.
As for the shoots, it’s one thing to run away from the camp in Poland (and there were just a lot of lagoons there), and other European countries, and another to run away from the camp in Kolyma, or from Vorkuta ... So this is not an indicator, or rather not an obvious indicator.

[Glory1974]

the point is that its effectiveness could easily be increased significantly.

For all the shortcomings you mentioned, our propaganda was very effective. These shortcomings only from your point of view, from the point of view of those who managed this process, everything was fine. From the point of view of those who read these articles, everyone also understood correctly. And the result confirms this. I respect your work in the archives, but I do not agree with your interpretation of the articles.
At the beginning of the war, after several air rams we had committed, our pilots began to be glorified. After some time, they were faced with the fact that pilots on serviceable planes, with unspent ammunition, are ramming, imitating (using modern slang) the heroes who are boasted, and it is very bad to lose a serviceable car and a pilot. They gave the command behind the scenes to play back. That is, they kept a finger on the pulse, there was feedback, there were mistakes, but they were corrected.

it’s one thing to flee the camp in Poland (and there were just a lot of camps), and other European countries, and another to flee the camp in Kolyma, or from Vorkuta ... So this is not an indicator, or rather not an obvious indicator.

At the same time, ours were not afraid to flee from concentration camps in Germany, France, Italy and other countries for thousands of kilometers. Since childhood, I remember Fedor Poletaev, who escaped from captivity, fought and died in Italy. So this is a very obvious and objective indicator.
But after the war, our agitators and propagandists lost their skills. At the time of the first Chechen war, our propaganda was offended, I just have no other words. The second is slightly better, but also very far from the time of the Second World War. Well, what we are seeing now on all fronts, we see for ourselves. If you could analyze modern propaganda in this way, you would be entirely on your side.

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

They probably had it before. Slogans are one, but inside another.

And here you are well done! Glad you saw it. But there is nothing to worry about. Today. The world has changed. We know that unanimity is harmful, so the slogans ... are different!

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

And why do we need to know, Vyacheslav, what you drink? Yes, please. Drink yourself!

Dmitry, why did you write this, I can’t imagine?

[Reptiloid]

That’s why I wrote so that it has long been noticed who drinks, likes to say, "" that everyone drinks "."

Quote: kalibr

Quote: Reptiloid

And why do we need to know, Vyacheslav, what you drink? Yes, please. Drink yourself!

Dmitry, why did you write this, I can’t imagine?

[kalibr]

Dmitry, calm down, this is Russian folklore. The so-called ideomatic expressions. And if I wrote: Who likes pop, who cares, who has a daughter, and then ... then what would you think? That I tend to polygamy and unconventional relationships with priests?

[Reptiloid]

And I'm not worried! Why should I worry, I say ---- drink to your health !! You are quite an adult ---- have a right.

[Mikado]

he is not friends with alcohol. I will ask!

Who likes pop, who cares, who has a daughter, and more ... then what would you think? That I tend to polygamy and unconventional relationships with priests?

eeeh, I’ll get there .... few would refuse! and if he drank, then the pop would fall under the batch! wishing the same! I have my own opinion about the church. After the cathedral, after the dismissal of Nikolai Burov

[kalibr]

[quo.te = Reptiloid] And these pugs for the country produce only waste. [/ quote]
This is your opinion, no more ...

[kalibr]

Quote: glory1974

If you were to analyze modern propaganda in such a way, you would be entirely on your side.

It comes to her. Not all at once. Here on this work went from 2005 to 2015, that is, 10 years. And you read now ...

[Reptiloid]

About the preparation time. Here's an example of today's or yesterday’s article in opinions. It seems to me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, that you have not prepared enough for it. It was, you somehow expression ------ wanted to write more quickly. ?????.
The main mistake is ---- THEY are already here. And you there somehow ----- will come soon, or we'll see soon. And ---- recommendations are already there, like that.

[kalibr]

You know, Dmitry, it’s just funny for me to read about the “unpreparedness” of such materials. Have you seen the volume of links to the source? This is a chapter from a dissertation that will be a chapter in a textbook on public opinion management technologies. Already past the primary editing. It was written ... two years ago, and before I inserted it here, I read it and tweaked it again. Such things "rather" do not write. And do not quite understand who they are? Aliens or who?

[Reptiloid]

Comments forum users do not always depend on their knowledge. Most often ---- from time to time. For members of the forum this is a hobby. In contrast to writing articles.

P.S. Keyword ---- 2 years.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

links are not a guarantee against erroneous evaluations of great writers and from the deceit of PR journalists.

No guarantee! Since you yourself can see everything with your own eyes on it ... Another thing is that laziness or just do not want to. Afraid of losing the innocence ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

No guarantee!

Alas, not always. A guarantee can only be if the author has elementary decency

[kalibr]

Quote: BAI

which once again emphasizes your qualifications.

No matter how much you emphasize it, only VAK can judge it. Are you a member of the HAC? If not, then your opinion is not worth a cent.

[Altona]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Yes, they generally went on a roll. And today's ads are just as raucous. I’m looking for a watch for myself, I’m reading type customer reviews, everything is written under one carbon copy. Super, delivered on time, very satisfied.

----------------------------
Better go to the store, look live and buy. I bought online 7 years ago, and now in a regular store. And he presented them to his brother. Now mostly quartz watches, so they are accurate. The price is mainly for the brand.

[kalibr]

Quote: glory1974

from the point of view of those who managed this process, everything was fine

And from the point of view of those at the top, everything is always normal.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

chasing fried facts and then presents them in the form in which they were ordered.

It is strange, in my opinion, that there was a scoop and bent overnight, a long-known fact for everyone ?! Nothing can be steeper than that!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

It is strange, in my opinion, that there was a scoop and bent overnight, a long-known fact for everyone ?! Nothing can be steeper than that!

As you say: the “scoop” has long been bent, why then does this fact torment you so much? You cannot pass by in any of your publications in order not to kick. It is still visible in your gut you feel that the hour is not far off when everything will return to normal and you will have to answer for everything.

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

easily and naturally come into the pocket of another

And you do not give, Dmitry!