Military Review

Engines for MiG-31, interceptions and complex "Dagger"

55
As recent reports show, the MiG-31 interceptor is now mastering a new role, turning into a strike aircraft with special tasks. To continue the service in the new configuration and successfully solve additional combat missions, such equipment needs to be updated. Recently, new details of already completed works became known, as well as possible ways for further development were announced. Among other things, it is possible to resume the assembly of new power plants for aircraft.


Over the past few years, MiG-31 aircraft, available in parts of the air force, have been upgraded to design with the letters "BM". During the update, the equipment restores technical readiness, and also receives a set of modern devices and devices. At preservation of the main flight technical data, the upgraded MiG-31BM differs from the aircraft of the basic version with improved combat capabilities and an expanded nomenclature of armaments.


Upgraded MiG-31BM at one of the aerospace exhibitions


It is curious that the MiG-31BM project does not provide for a change in the type of available turbojet engines, with the result that the aircraft continue to fly with powerplants that are distinguished by a sufficiently large age. In the foreseeable future, this feature of operation may turn into a problem, but now there is a way out of a risky situation.

March 7 about the capabilities and intentions of the engine-building industry told the press the managing director of ODK-Perm Engines company Sergey Popov. The head of the company said that, if necessary, it is possible to restore the serial production of D-30F6 turbojet engines intended for MiG-31 interceptors. After receiving the order, the company will be able to resume the release of key systems and components.

S. Popov noted that he does not see anything difficult in solving such a task. Over the past three to four years, the Perm enterprise has fully restored the process of manufacturing units of the “hot” part of turbojet engines, i.e. proper turbines. As required can be restored and the manufacture of the compressor.

Also, the head of the engine-building plant recalled that the most active operation of the MiG-31 aircraft in the military leads to the appearance of corresponding challenges. It pushes the industry to develop the most efficient repair options for their engines. The production of D-30F6 products was discontinued for a long time, but “ODK-Perm Motors”, which previously produced them, can resume production of the main components and assemblies.

Engines for MiG-31, interceptions and complex "Dagger"
Engine nozzle D-30F6. The afterburner units are visible


History The D-30F6 engine dates back to the late sixties, when the development of a promising interceptor aircraft with the highest possible flight speed began. An aircraft capable of climbing 25-30 km and accelerating to 3000-3500 km / h required a special power plant. The development of the engine for the future MiG-31 was entrusted to the Perm engine-building design bureau, headed by P.A. Solovyov. The design of the new product was carried out using the solutions and units of the D-30 project. The development work continued until the mid-seventies, and in 1975, the experienced MiG-31 with two D-30-X6 engines took off for the first time.

The turbojet D-30F6 engine is built on a dual circuit with two shafts. The product design consists of seven modules, most of which can be replaced during operation. The only exception is the so-called. base module including high pressure compressor, two turbines and a combustion chamber. The air intake, low pressure compressor, housing, afterburner and nozzle are made in the form of separate modules.

The finished engine has high performance, ensuring the effectiveness of the interceptor. A product with a length of about 8 m with a dry weight of just over 2,4 T at take-off develops cravings up to 9500 kgf. When an afterburner is used, thrust is increased to 15500 kgf. Specific fuel consumption at maximum mode and afterburner is 0,72 and 1,9 kg / kgf / h, respectively. The maximum gas temperature in front of the turbine, depending on the mode, reaches 1660 ° K.

Two turbojet engines give the MiG-31 high performance. An aircraft with full refueling with a mass of 39,15 t may have thrust-to-weight ratio up to 0,8. The maximum take-off weight exceeding 46,7 t reduces this parameter to 0,67. At the same time, the maximum speed (at a height) up to 3400 km / h is ensured. Cruising - 2500 km / h. The dynamic ceiling is defined at the level of 30 km. Thus, thanks to a pair of D-30F6 engines, the MiG-31 interceptor is currently the fastest combat aircraft in the world.


Engines D-30F6 in action


D-30F6 engines were produced from the mid-seventies to the mid-nineties; the dates of their mass production actually coincided with the years of construction of the MiG-31 interceptors. For two decades, the Perm engine-building enterprise has provided engines for all production aircraft, and in addition, has created a substantial stock of such products. Aerospace forces are still using a similar groundwork, received a few decades ago. As the resource develops, the engines are removed from the aircraft and replaced with new ones taken from warehouses.

However, the stock of existing engines is not infinite, and therefore in the foreseeable future there may be a question of starting the production of new products D-30F6. As recent events show, the Russian command intends to maintain the MiG-31BM for many years, and therefore the aircraft can remain in service until the moment when the stock of engines for them runs out. According to the latest news, the industry is to some extent ready for this development.

A few days ago, the management of ODK-Perm Engines reminded of the recent restoration of the production of turbines for D-30F6 engines, and also announced the possibility of resuming the assembly of other units. Thus, upon receiving an order from the Ministry of Defense, the plant will be able to begin production of new engines for existing equipment. However, while it was only about some real work and possible future events. Terms, volumes and other aspects of a hypothetical production program, for obvious reasons, have not yet been clarified.

However, already now, taking into account the development of aerospace forces, it can be said with a certain degree of confidence that MiG-31BM interceptors will indeed be able to get new engines, although this will happen in the not very near future. The well-known plans of the Ministry of Defense, as well as a number of sensational recent reports, can be the basis for the most daring predictions, in which there will be a place for the D-30F6 engines.


MiG-31BM takes off with a rocket "Dagger"


On March 1, Russian President Vladimir Putin, addressing the Federal Assembly with an annual message, spoke about several of the latest Russian weapons and equipment, and also showed demonstration videos. One of the missile weapons projects presented is most directly related to the MiG-31BM aircraft and its future. It is promising aviation missile system "Dagger".

Recall that in the framework of the project with the cipher “Dagger” a newest aeroballistic rocket was created, capable of maneuvering along a trajectory and developing hypersonic speed. Such weaponEquipped with a conventional or special warhead, can be used to defeat a variety of ground or surface targets. The highest characteristics of the rocket lead to the fact that its interception is an extremely difficult task, and in some cases is likely to be completely ruled out.

As the carrier of the newest rocket "Dagger" aircraft is used MiG-31BM. This machine, distinguished by its high flight characteristics, is capable of reaching a given area as quickly as possible and launching a rocket. Apparently, in terms of carrying capacity and flight data, the MiG-31BM turned out to be the best contender for the role of the future carrier of the Dagger.

The appearance of a new missile system has several consequences, and one of the main ones is the preservation of the MiG-31BM in service. In connection with the development of new strike weapons, this aircraft is being transformed from an interceptor capable of carrying some types of air-to-surface weapons into a multi-purpose weapon carrier for solving a wide range of combat missions. Moreover, in terms of its combat capabilities, the interceptor with the Dagger missile to some extent approaches the long-range bombers.


Rocket reset


In the President’s speech, it was mentioned that last December the Dagger complex was put on experimental combat duty in one of the formations of the Southern Military District. 10 in March, the press service of the Ministry of Defense announced the holding of a practical combat training launch of the latest rocket. Pilots 929-th State Flight Test Center. V.P. Chkalov (Akhtubinsk) took off with a payload in the form of a product "Dagger" and dropped it in a given area. It is reported that by now the aviation complex on duty had completed over 250 flights, and the personnel had received the necessary training during the day and at night.

Recent reports clearly indicate that the Dagger complex has passed the necessary tests, and now its putting into service with full-fledged duty turns out to be only a matter of time. Accordingly, the further fate of the MiG-31BM interceptors is also determined. In the near and distant future, they will have to not only fight with air targets, but also destroy ground or surface objects with the help of an aeroballistic rocket.

Given the logic of choosing the MiG-31BM as the carrier of the "Dagger", we can assume that in a similar role these aircraft will be used until the very end of their service - up to full development of the resource. Thus, the issue of maintaining technical readiness and timely updating of equipment will remain relevant. One of its manifestations, respectively, will be observed in the field of power plants.

Obviously, as they serve in the old and new role, interceptors-rocket carriers will develop the life of their engines. Replacement of the power plant will be made using products that are stored. However, the stock created in the past is not infinite, and therefore at some point the Perm Engine Plant will really have to start production. However, when this happens - if it happens - while it is not completely clear. The Ministry of Defense does not disclose information on the technical condition of the aircraft and the stocks of the engines in storage.


The aircraft that participated in the recent combat training of the Dagger


At the moment, there is every reason to assume that, in the framework of the next repairs, the existing MiG-31BM will receive exactly the D-30F6 turbojet engines. Replacing such engines with products of other types does not seem appropriate, and in addition, it may be associated with a number of unjustified difficulties. Indeed, the use of other engines could give some advantages, but the necessary concomitant alteration of the aircraft completely eliminates them.

However, a reasonable compromise could be a new project to upgrade an existing engine. Since the mid-seventies, the engine building industry has mastered many new technologies, and they could be used to improve the rather old D-30F6. However, before launching such a project, it is necessary to determine the actual ratio of pros and cons, as well as calculate the cost of the work and the approximate timing of the appearance of the finished product. It may be that the simple resumption of production of existing engines will be the most profitable and fast.

A full-fledged new engine with high performance should be created for the future interceptor, which will replace the existing MiG-31BM. Over the past few years, the possibility of creating a new aircraft of this class, which retains the basic capabilities of its predecessor, but has certain advantages, is being discussed. As far as we know, the full-scale development work on such a project has not yet been launched. As a result, there are still no requirements for the new engine. The question of the continuity of armaments remains uncertain. Obviously, the future interceptor will be able to carry long-range air-to-air missiles and some means of defeating ground targets, but so far there is no clarity on missile systems such as the latest Dagger.

However, for the foreseeable future, both of these roles remain with the MiG-31BM. This situation will persist indefinitely, until a new type of serial interceptor appears. This means that in the future, as the available reserves are used up, the resumption of the production of the D-30FNXX engines can be transferred from the category of simple discussions to the category of current programs. Fortunately, now the former manufacturer of such products has the ability to launch the release of all major components and assemblies.

MiG-31 interceptor aircraft have served in the air force for several decades, and so far no one is going to write them off. Moreover, it was they, despite their considerable age, who were entrusted with the use of the most advanced strike weapons. This means that the equipment will remain in service, and the aviation industry will have to develop new technology modernization projects. Serial MiG-31BM have already been updated with the replacement of part of the electronics, and in the distant future, they can wait for new power plants. Interceptors, missile carriers will still serve and help the army to defend their country.


On the materials of the sites:
http://tass.ru/
https://ria.ru/
http://redstar.ru/
https://function.mil.ru/
http://airwar.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense, Wikimedia Commons
55 comments
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  1. shinobi
    shinobi 13 March 2018 15: 56
    +2
    I don’t know who he thinks, but usually the conversion of the target fighter into a multi-purpose one, in our case, with sharpening under attack systems, it means only one thing — a new product has appeared. Even cooler. good But they will not show it to us. Another 10 years. yes
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 13 March 2018 20: 52
      +1
      Another serious argument is the amount of alcohol on this plane. spoiled Mig-31 more than one regiment
      1. NN52
        NN52 13 March 2018 21: 26
        +18
        A loud statement, however .... If not in the subject, then shadowing the wattle fence is not necessary, pzhl ...
        C MiG 25 should not be confused with his massandra ....
        25 times more ...
        Learn the topic before writing such a joke ...
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 13 March 2018 16: 15
    +4
    The plane is excellent, but OLD! Back in the 90 years, we had a Trudovik at school, a former retired pilot. And he flew exactly on the Mig-31 (25 MiGs rarely flew then) And he said that with proper modernization the car It will last a very long time. But where is this modernization ?! The article discusses the resumption of engine production, which is already FORTY YEARS OLD! During this time, the engine building industry has gone ahead for many years! There were still complaints about the bookbinding glazing of the cockpit. Which did not allow the aircraft to fly at high speeds for a long time ! It began to melt! Yes, and gence from the cabin worse! Pro digital dashboards do not say anything ...
    1. Sergey985
      Sergey985 13 March 2018 19: 09
      +3
      The problem with the cockpit light was on the MIG-25. At 31, it was decided.
    2. NN52
      NN52 13 March 2018 21: 49
      +14
      Magic archer

      Well, you probably rarely visit the site, and not all articles about 31 you read ...
      But MiG 31 BM and BSM is not a modernization? On the plane, everything is replaced by almost 75%.
      And the displays are in both the rear and front cockpit.
      The complaints weren’t how you write, on the binding glazing of the cabin, delirium to be honest, but on the quality of the plexiglass, which was breaking down and turning yellow ... It was now replaced with silicate glass ... Nothing melted ...
      No one complained of visibility from the cockpit; this aircraft is not for maneuverable close air combat ...
      Regarding the engine .... I would advise this author of the article to make hara-kiri for such a presentation of information ... What a damn hit the engines !!!!!!!!!
      Maybe there were new dvigla, but they have not been around for a long time !!!! All engines are repaired, sorted and become like new they are, specs are left. And as far as I know, they’re doing it not in Perm ...
      There are no problems with the presence of engines, from a word ...
      There is a problem with their small resource. And if they want to resume their production, then they figured out how to solve this problem.
    3. Alex_59
      Alex_59 14 March 2018 08: 17
      +3
      Quote: Magic Archer
      There were still complaints about the binding glazing of the cockpit. Which did not allow the aircraft to fly at high speeds for a long time! It began to melt!

      It's five! ))))))))
      1. Magic archer
        Magic archer 14 March 2018 23: 47
        +1
        Yes, at least six! These are the words of another person! I just quoted them. There were experts, damn it
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 15 March 2018 16: 01
          +1
          Quote: Magic Archer
          Found, experts, damn it

          Well, as it were, experts))) I am from Perm, we have MiGs based, and my dad drew this very D-30Ф6 on the culmination)))
          1. Magic archer
            Magic archer 16 March 2018 19: 14
            0
            We also have them! Monchegorsk 27. And the man flew on this plane!
  3. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman 13 March 2018 16: 18
    +1
    Quote: shinobi
    I don’t know who he thinks, but usually the conversion of the target fighter into a multi-purpose one, in our case, with sharpening under attack systems, it means only one thing — a new product has appeared. Even cooler. good But they will not show it to us. Another 10 years. yes


    These will be new buns from the village of Vova.
  4. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman 13 March 2018 16: 24
    +2
    Soviet-Russian weapons in how many wars and conflicts have proved that they are the best in the world! The main thing is that the hands and heads be "sharpened" as needed! And also to our defense industry and designers-A-A-AGRICULTURAL THANKS !!! from the army and the people who love their homeland, and not overseas kissel banks!
    1. groks
      groks 13 March 2018 18: 35
      +4
      Soviet weapons - I know. And Russian - what is it?
  5. Falcond
    Falcond 13 March 2018 16: 51
    +4
    Or maybe these two 31s have been redone purely for flying laboratories !?
    1. NN52
      NN52 13 March 2018 21: 50
      +9
      Falcond

      In the right direction, think ...
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 March 2018 09: 03
      0
      Well, they will make these aircraft under the carriers of Daggers pieces of 50 - 60 maximum. Given the length of the maritime boundaries, this amount is generally about nothing.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 17 March 2018 09: 12
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        Well, they will make these aircraft under the carriers of Daggers pieces of 50 - 60 maximum

        This is 50 - 60 with a guarantee of destroyed targets. It is very much yes
        Quote: Vadim237
        Given the length of the maritime borders, this amount is generally about nothing

        Tell me, please - where does the "length of the sea borders" mean?
        Speak like Gridasov ... like the words are all understandable, but the meaning ... is somehow lost request
      2. NN52
        NN52 18 March 2018 16: 40
        +9
        Vadim237
        You write again that not under 31 do it?
      3. Mixa 2106
        Mixa 2106 5 July 2018 14: 54
        0
        Yes, maybe less, to solve any special task
  6. Operator
    Operator 13 March 2018 19: 05
    0
    Park Mig-31 after repair and modernization can be estimated at 250 cars. Each of them will be the carrier of aeroballistic, anti-satellite and small space rockets, as well as air-to-air missiles.

    The cherry on the cake is that the Iskander-M medium-range aeroballistic missiles suspended from the MiG-31 are not limited by the current START treaty and are not prohibited by the RMND treaty. Those. their number can be increased absolutely uncontrollably, ensuring the nuclear missile dominance of the Russian Federation throughout Europe and Asia (with the exception of Southeast Asia).

    And the strategic nuclear missile forces of Russia can be aimed exclusively at the North American continent - this will be logical, since we agreed on their mutual limitation only with the United States.

    There is one question on the agenda: what will the successor of the thirty-first MiG MiG-41 look like - a steel case with laser welding, thrust-weight ratio 1, maximum speed 4M, combat radius with an aeroballistic missile 5000 km? bully
    1. NN52
      NN52 13 March 2018 23: 02
      +12
      Operator

      You noted in this thread, the machine operator, not tired?

      The figure of 250 boards is incorrect, about 180.
      And how is it that EACH OF THEM will be the bearer of aeroballistic, anti-satellite and a masterpiece from you, SMALL SPACE ROCKETS - what is this, explain pzhl? and to the heap of the rocket, air is air .... Where to hang it all up, is that the death star?
      Regarding your CHERRY, your older comrades have already explained everything to you, but apparently you didn’t understand ...
      And you have already appointed the 31 MiG receiver represented by the MiG 41, with a steel case ... and why without using titanium elements, as in 31? And on 4M who will sit in the cockpit? or will he only fly in a straight line and make U-turns with a pancake so that the pilots would not give their souls to God from overload right away?
      And for thrust ratio 1, muddy new engine from zero?

      Well, you and TROLL are incompetent ...................................
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 14 March 2018 08: 23
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      Park Mig-31 after repair and modernization can be evaluated in 250 machines.

      You can evaluate in 2500 machines))) Rate.
      And real living planes are 2 times smaller than this figure.
    3. Mixa 2106
      Mixa 2106 5 July 2018 14: 56
      0
      not bad would like right now
  7. Sverdlov
    Sverdlov 13 March 2018 19: 26
    +2
    The Iskander stub shown to us is not a hypersonic missile. A-priory. No closed thrust source with hypersonic speed. And, by definition, an object cannot move faster than the speed of an outgoing jet.
    Samples of hypersonic rockets available in pictures are direct exhaust pipes. But their survivability in this mode is seconds, minutes.
    Iskandek's “Hypersound” is pseudo-hypersound. A missile maneuvers at launch, on approach. Then he makes a mountain and resets the warhead. And now it already falls on the enemy with hypersonic speed using the potential energy of gravity of the Earth. Like warhead ballistics.
    Shoot both in attack mode is almost impossible.
    1. Locksmith
      Locksmith 13 March 2018 20: 47
      +5
      Quote: Sverdlov
      And, by definition, an object cannot move faster than the speed of an outgoing jet.

      Well, yes, and factories laughing they didn’t even know and made a “Nudol” which flies in the atmosphere on “under-hypersound” at a speed of 5.5 km / sec yes
      And in spite of the know-it-alls in the balaclava, it is also terrifying ... soldier
      1. Sverdlov
        Sverdlov 14 March 2018 04: 33
        0
        Nudol, a high-altitude space fighter. Reaches the first cosmic 7,91 only outside the atmosphere and is not hypersonic. Hypersonic aircraft must move in dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed above 5km / s. And this can only provide forward flow. Plus, problems with thermal insulation that were solved, in particular on the Burany, due to porous ceramic plates. Which, again, burned out and fell off on the descent trajectory. If now we managed to solve these problems, then glory to our designers and technologists.
        Just what we are shown hanging from a MiG -31 is not a full-fledged hypersonic weapon. Glider let them show.
        A full glider should attack at an angle of 30 degrees to the surface of the earth. Then no computer will be able to calculate the retaliatory strike.
  8. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 13 March 2018 19: 57
    +7
    The article has a good topic, but everything that is said in it can be placed in one paragraph ... and at first, interesting reading material turns into repeated chewing of the same phrases ...
  9. Operator
    Operator 13 March 2018 23: 51
    0
    Quote: NN52
    Regarding your CHERRY, your older comrades have already explained everything to you, but apparently you didn’t understand

    laughing

    1. NN52
      NN52 14 March 2018 10: 12
      +9
      Operator

      You apparently draw knowledge from such books ... study ...
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 14 March 2018 13: 45
        +5
        Two hundred and fifty, a blunder. I actually thought that the Operator uses Murzilka, well, even with the performances of large shoulder straps from the drawer.
      2. Operator
        Operator 14 March 2018 17: 28
        0
        NN52 - Free Recipe laughing

        1. NN52
          NN52 14 March 2018 19: 25
          +8
          Operator

          Well now everything is clear about you ..
          So you would say that thump ///
          And then post some left signs.
          Write anything in the comments now, they will understand you ...
          Good luck, expert ....
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 14 March 2018 20: 22
          +4
          Quote: Operator
          free recipe

          I thought you were funny, I was wrong - you are a misunderstanding.
          You there have famously operated with the statements of "big epaulettes" - go to them rude and give advice, where do you come from. It seems that you are interested, you are maneuvering the information available to you, but the concept of discussion is not familiar to you, therefore, you become like an ordinary boor. Good luck, March 18, do not oversleep
    2. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 14 March 2018 13: 46
      +4
      Operator, the young man you are pale with a burning eye, you beat this label on your forehead, it can help
  10. Old26
    Old26 14 March 2018 10: 11
    +4
    Quote: shinobi
    I don’t know who he thinks, but usually the conversion of the target fighter into a multi-purpose one, in our case, with sharpening under attack systems, it means only one thing — a new product has appeared. Even cooler. good But they will not show it to us. Another 10 years. yes

    After such an alteration, the language does not dare to call it multi-purpose. Percussion, where else did not go. All suspensions have been removed from the standard fighter. Having returned to the airfield, he cannot load with air combat missiles (or simultaneously with a DAGGER) and act as a fighter.
    It seems, nevertheless, these three cars are now being tested in military trials ...

    Quote: FalconD
    Or maybe these two 31s have been redone purely for flying laboratories !?

    Three. Board Nos. 91, 93 and 592nd

    Quote: Operator
    Park Mig-31 after repair and modernization can be evaluated in 250 machines.

    Yeah. 113 in the ranks, plus about 70 in storage give a total of 250 ....

    Quote: Operator
    Each of them will be the carrier of aeroballistic, anti-satellite and small space rockets, as well as air-to-air missiles.

    And if, during modernization, a plow is also added, then this fighter can plow. Find on one of the presented MIG photos besides the suspension for the "Dagger" at least one suspension for missiles "air-to-air" .... And then he, in your understanding, has become both a reaper, a Swiss and a dude. Well, because the GDP said ....

    Quote: Operator
    The cherry on the cake is that the Iskander-M medium-range aeroballistic missiles suspended from the MiG-31 are not limited by the current START treaty and are not prohibited by the RMND treaty. Those. their number can be increased absolutely uncontrollably, ensuring the nuclear missile dominance of the Russian Federation throughout Europe and Asia (with the exception of Southeast Asia).

    The "cherry" is that the contracts do not indicate which specific carriers for the BRVZ to consider. It can be a TU-160 bomber, as for the Krechet-R complex, it can also be a S-5 type transporter, as for the Minuteman tests. The contract VioletThat it will be - TU-160, S-5 or MIG-31.

    The ban is spelled out in the contract BRVZ class missiles with a range of more than 600 km. And despite the fact that the protocol has long expired, both sides adhere to this provision. Otherwise, carriers of such missiles would have plowed the air for a long time. If the missile range is 2000 km, then this is a clear violation of the START treaty. And it’s not ephemeral when we are accused of having some kind of 9M729 missile, which goes beyond the scope. This is a direct violation, illuminated by the words of the president.
    our enemy does not need better. Now it is equipped with similar missiles, and not in the amount of one or three dozen dozens of outdated modifications of Boeing 3 and pzhl aircraft, try in the vast mass of these aircraft circling around the territory of Russia, or going in transit through our territory to identify such "pseudo-bombs"
    1. Cook
      Cook 14 March 2018 14: 54
      +1
      It will be interesting to see where on the B-747, you can install a large number of such missiles. This can only be arranged on an external sling, but you can’t hide it anymore.
    2. Operator
      Operator 14 March 2018 18: 01
      0
      Quote: Old26
      The agreement spells a ban on BRVZ class missiles with a range of more than 600 km. And despite the fact that the protocol has long expired, both sides adhere to this provision.

      "Not in cards, but in dominoes, did not win, but lost, ..." (C) laughing

      Well, Pete Mitchell would insist on 600 km (what is the demand from a Jew), but I did not expect it, by golly. I say that any air ballistic missiles are not prohibited by any written document - an agreement, protocol, convention, etc. etc., in response, you declare - no, they are prohibited by gentlemen's agreement. The elderberry garden, and the uncle in Kiev.

      "Dagger" does not violate any contract / protocol, period.

      At the moment, the United States is not able to oppose it, since the Iskander’s maximum range is achieved by accelerating the carrier aircraft to M 2,83 and launching the rocket vertically during the aircraft’s cabling (after the trial operation with horizontal launching, naturally).

      America does not have similar carrier airplanes with a steel glider (50%) and DTRDF with a low bypass ratio from the word in general. To create them (for example, on the basis of the retired SR-71) it will take the nth time, for which we will again run forward.

      Boeing 747 and the vertical launch of ballistic missiles at speeds of about 3M - this is nonsense. On the other hand, if one of the Americans comes up with your idea of ​​placing ballistic missiles on civilian airliners flying in transit through Russian airspace, then no later than a day later they will be aware of the SVR and GRU, and the transit will be covered with a copper basin.

      The common idea of ​​GDP is different: how to achieve a true strategic balance with the United States, so that all strategic offensive arms controlled by the relevant treaty are aimed only at the national territories of the parties to the treaty (plus Canada, which has no luck with geography). And "Daggers" - only on European and Asian allies of the United States.
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 14 March 2018 21: 16
        +5
        Quote: Operator
        Well, Pete Mitchell insisted on 600 km (what is the demand from a Jew),

        Once again I repeat my question: where are you growing these poor people? I just want to know what would be guaranteed to avoid this place?
        By the way, imagine: where I spoke about 600 km. And so I insisted in a dispute with you: I think you have not grown yet, so I argued with you.
        Do not touch the people, it doesn’t paint anyone at all, although what am I talking about ... do I need the uncircumcised to interfere in the affairs of the Jewish people. You tell them that, I want to see it angry
  11. Old26
    Old26 14 March 2018 16: 01
    +1
    Quote: Cook
    It will be interesting to see where on the B-747, you can install a large number of such missiles. This can only be arranged on an external sling, but you can’t hide it anymore.

    The agreement on OSV-2 EMNIP was a ban on the use of civilian (transport) aircraft as carriers for missiles. And there were projects. Moreover, the missiles were located not on the external sling, but inside the fuselage. Now I can already be mistaken, but in the variant of carriers of cruise missiles, he could carry something in the region of 70-72 missiles. As a carrier of ballistic missiles, it could carry from 4 to 8, depending on the weight characteristics of ballistic missiles. But this is not accurate. We must look, but not one - that's for sure
    1. Cook
      Cook 14 March 2018 16: 35
      0
      In relation to 747 - to place inside such a large number of missiles in a regular plane without very significant alterations, does not work out in any way. And then, only in the front trunk, the central fuel tank goes further, even further - the niches of the fuselage landing gear. The front trunk, as well as the rear, are combined into a single pressurized cabin with the main and upper deck. In any case, all the manipulations to organize the compartment with weapons inside the fuselage will be very noticeable in comparison with conventional aircraft. Alteration will be very expensive. I’m writing for a reason, I know this type of aircraft well enough, and I had a chance to fly it.
  12. Old26
    Old26 14 March 2018 19: 13
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    "Dagger" does not violate any contract / protocol, period.

    In your parallel universe, Andrei may not break. You, in your universe, MIG-31 with a load of 4-5 tons on a suspension at a speed of 3M rises to 20 km. And here, excuse me, in our universe this is not so ...

    Quote: Cook
    In relation to 747 - to place inside such a large number of missiles in a regular plane without very significant alterations, does not work out in any way. And then, only in the front trunk, the central fuel tank goes further, even further - the niches of the fuselage landing gear. The front trunk, as well as the rear, are combined into a single pressurized cabin with the main and upper deck. In any case, all the manipulations to organize the compartment with weapons inside the fuselage will be very noticeable in comparison with conventional aircraft. Alteration will be very expensive. I’m writing for a reason, I know this type of aircraft well enough, and I had a chance to fly it.

    Kamrad! Did I write somewhere that without rework? Of course, the Boeing had to go through modernization. For an aircraft with cruise missiles, two options were provided. Or a discharge through the tail hatch, which was specially made for this, or through the EMNIP hatch in the starboard side after the pilot's cabin. As far as I remember externally, they should have been almost no different, except for the hatches. But fortunately this did not happen. Otherwise, we would get a fleet of carrier aircraft of the Kyrgyz Republic, which could not be distinguished from a regular one at a distance.
    1. NN52
      NN52 14 March 2018 20: 27
      +8
      Old26

      Quote: Operator
      "Dagger" does not violate any contract / protocol, period.

      In your parallel universe, Andrei may not break. You, in your universe, MIG-31 with a load of 4-5 tons on a suspension at a speed of 3M rises to 20 km. And here, excuse me, in our universe this is not so ...

      Old 26
      You don’t prove anything to him, it’s useless ...
      But the fact that he, frankly rude and calls Pete Mitchell a Tramp a Jew, is due to the stupidity of the Operator (the Tramp is a pilot from God ... although I am also a pilot, but the Tramp is not fit for purpose ... although they finished one flight, only in different time....)
      And I no longer enter into discussion with the Operator, probably like the Tramp ...
      And perhaps maybe you will not answer his nonsense, and waste your time ...
      Let it really fly in its Universe on whatever it thinks for itself ...
  13. Operator
    Operator 14 March 2018 19: 56
    0
    Quote: Old26
    in your universe MIG-31 with a load of 4-5 tons on a suspension at a speed of 3M rises and 20 km

    Too lazy the second time to search the Internet for an illustration of the optimal trajectory of launching ballistic missiles with an air launch, which I gave in my commentary in another topic for NN52 (not horse feed) - you can find it yourself.

    The essence of the process is that an airplane with a rocket on an external sling at a practical height is accelerated to the shortest possible speed for it (determined by the strength of the glider and the lamp by aerodynamic heating), after which it goes into a vertical turn (with a radius determined by the strength of the glider for overload with the rocket at external suspension), flies in an arc in 1/8 of a circle and discards the rocket, after which it rises to the maximum height in an arc of 3/8 of a circle and goes into fall mode to a practical height.

    The meaning of the maneuver is that after the drop the missile goes to the AUT with the speed of the carrier and at the optimum (to achieve maximum range) angle of 45 degrees.

    For the MiG-31, when flying with afterburner, the practical altitude is 18 km, the maximum long-term speed at this altitude is 3000 km / h (2,83 M), short-term - about 3240 km / h (3 M), the bend radius is from 4,5 -tone rocket with external suspension under the fuselage - about 5 km.

    It follows that the launch of the rocket in normal mode will be carried out at an altitude of 20,5 km and a speed of 3M, and the maximum lift height of the MiG-31 will be 28 km.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 14 March 2018 20: 32
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      the maximum lift height of the MiG-31 will be 28 km

      You read political information, you should have a talk show, such people are useful there. Adieu
    2. rubin6286
      rubin6286 16 March 2018 12: 44
      +2
      Dear Operator!

      I read this your comment with interest. It would be nice, in confirmation of the indicated figures, to give mathematical calculations according to the appropriate formulas and to depict a parallelogram of the forces acting on the carrier and the rocket, for example, in the cabling area.

      Explaining about the "vertical turn" you opened a new aerobatics. Let me remind you that a turn is shallow and deep, right or left. The execution of this figure, as well as the rest, is carried out according to certain rules set forth in the theory of flight (altitude, speed, position relative to the horizon, etc., etc.). MiG-31 - a machine not designed to perform aerobatics. Fully crushed, with a rocket weighing approximately 6 tons, it is "heavy as an iron." When you perform a "vertical turn" the plane will collapse. What kind of overload occurs and what will happen to the pilot, I suggest you think it out yourself. There is no “vertical turn” and the maneuver you are proposing is a “loop”, in the upper part of which the pilot must perform a coup and translate the car into horizontal flight. Such a maneuver is called an “immelman”.

      If the rocket launch is carried out with cabling, then after separation from the carrier, the rocket, under the influence of gravity, will go down and out of sight of the sighting and navigation complex of the aircraft. To prevent this, launch is made from horizontal flight. The missile has an APR device that will undermine it if the missile trajectory deviates from the design by 4 degrees. What a cabriole. After separation from the carrier, the rocket remote control is turned on and the acceleration section begins. Upon reaching the required speed, the control system transfers the rocket sequentially to the vertical lift mode, ballistic turn, and upon reaching the upper point of the trajectory in the blockage mode. The dive of the missile onto the target begins. The MS is braked in the dense layers of the atmosphere. The altimeter and the overload indicator installed on board the radio when they reach the values ​​set by the flight task (program) activate the separation system. A warhead detaches itself from a missile, uses the means available to overcome the missile defense (false targets, dipole reflectors, etc.) and then, descending vertically, hits the target. The speed of the carrier is important, but even more important is its altitude and range. The greater the flight range, the greater the chances of launching without entering the AUG air defense zone and returning home after that. The higher the ceiling of the carrier at launch, the smaller can be the mass-geometric characteristics of the rocket. Therefore, with the same range, the "Dagger" is smaller than the Soviet X-22M.

      Where is the hypersound here? It seems to me that hypersound can be used to accelerate the MS in dense layers of the atmosphere. In general, in warhead missiles with solid propellant rocket engines, approximately 2 to 3 minutes elapse from the “blockage” section to the target hit. This is enough to ensure that air defense orders destroy them. What accelerates the warhead at the final section - ramjet, solid propellant rocket engine, liquid propellant rocket engine or some other engine, I do not know yet and can not judge. Judging by the commotion in NATO, they cannot intercept the "Dagger" yet.
      1. Operator
        Operator 16 March 2018 17: 34
        +1
        The phrase "vertical turn" instead of "cabling" had to be applied, because the opponents didn’t get the Iskander launch plan with the MiG-31 directly along the ballistic trajectory (at an angle of 45 degrees to the horizon at the launch point).

        There is information and drawings on the Internet for such a launch as applied to pilot launches with MiG-31 anti-satellite missiles in the late 1980s, as well as the project for launching small space rockets (Ishim) of the 1990s and the proposal of the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye design bureau on launch of a single-stage missile with a kinetic interceptor of the 2000s.

        The Iskander-M weighs about 4,5 tons, and the missile is launched after the MiG-31 has developed three quarters of the onboard fuel supply. In January of this year, a note was published at the VO about the modernized Mig-31 achieving a maximum speed of 3400 km / h.

        As for the range, the Iskander-M as standard, launched along a ballistic trajectory from an air carrier at a speed of 3M, will have a range of about 1000 km plus the radius of the air carrier. Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation declared +2000 km for the Dagger complex.

        The flight time of a detachable Iskander warhead along a ballistic trajectory over a range of 1000 km can be estimated at 5 minutes. The apogee of the trajectory will reach 200 km.

        If a stealth cover (similar to a cover of ICBM warheads) is used for a warhead, the ABM radars will detect a warhead when it enters the atmosphere at an altitude of 100 km after the start of plasma formation at a distance of 140 km from the final flight target. When approaching the target, the speed of the warhead will decrease from 10M to 4M (average 7M or 2,1 km / s), then the radar tracking time can be estimated at about 1 minute. At the same time, the guided warhead will perform anti-aircraft maneuvering, from a height of about 40 km it will switch to guidance according to its WGS.

        For guaranteed target destruction in the missile defense zone, it is necessary to use two Iskander missiles with nuclear warheads launched at intervals of half a minute - the warhead of one missile will explode at an altitude of 100 km before entering the missile defense zone and damage radars for several minutes, the warhead of the second missile hit the target (for example, an aircraft carrier).
        1. rubin6286
          rubin6286 17 March 2018 12: 00
          +2
          Dear Operator!

          I’m not ready to agree that the “Dagger” is an aviation version of Iskander. ”The media are not talking about this directly. I am not talking about that. The launch of an aeroballistic missile is one, the launch of a missile into the “near” space is another. The flight paths of these missiles are different, as are the conditions for their launch. The launch of a missile from a carrier aircraft by a satellite located in the "near" space "at a point close to the perigee of its orbit is a kind of" catch-up "shooting. The cabling is needed here so that the aircraft, using a speed close to maximum, can rise as high as possible and get closer to the target so that the missile guidance system can "capture" the target. After starting, the pilot transferred the machine to horizontal flight and then reduced speed and altitude, returned to the airfield.

          Information from the homing head of the missile after “target capture” is fed to the BCVM installed in the missile, which sequentially issues commands to the controls (deflectors, spoilers, central nozzle body, steering cars, etc., etc.) that ultimately bring together missile defense with a view. Then there is a separation of the charge from the anti-missile stage, its additional orientation and detonation, which can disable the target.
          A specific feature of launching a missile defense from a carrier aircraft is that its remote control starts working immediately after it leaves the rail, as is the case with air-to-air missiles and there is no horizontal discharge area like aeroballistic missiles.
          I repeat that ACG "sees" our plane at a distance of 700-750 km from it and at this distance is able to bring it down with a probability of 0,9-0,95.

          To avoid guaranteed destruction, the launch of the rocket must be carried out outside this zone. So the rocket should have a considerable range, but this is due to the growth of its mass and dimensions. The Soviet X-22M, when firing at a range of about 300 km, weighed about 6 tons in running order and had a length of 11,6 meters. "Carcass" took her only one. With it, it was necessary to delve into the air defense zone of the AUG for about 300-350 km. The “dagger” is slightly smaller and it seems to me that this problem was solved at the expense of a greater height and speed of the carrier aircraft. MiG-31 passes 300-350km twice or three times faster than Tu-22M3 and at high altitude, where air resistance is less, then the missile can have a smaller fuel supply and, accordingly, smaller dimensions and weight.

          I do not have information about the design features of the "Dagger", hypersound and so on. I shared my opinion about this in the past comments.
          1. Operator
            Operator 17 March 2018 12: 24
            0
            This is not about the design features of the Iskander-M, which, together with the modified MiG-31, is part of the Dagger missile system, but only about the most optimal way (in order to achieve maximum range) of launching a ballistic missile from a carrier aircraft .

            There is only one such method - with cabling at an angle of 45 degrees. Short-term maximum speed, flight altitude and engine thrust on the afterburner allows the MiG-31 to realize this (after completion of the trial operation, of course).

            Based on the range of the “Dagger” complex (2000 km) and the estimated range (1000 km) of a single-stage ballistic missile with a maximum speed of 10M or 2950 m / s declared by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation and the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Federation, the launch line will be at a distance of 1000 km from the target being hit like an aircraft carrier, i.e. outside the AUG air defense zone.

            The estimated range is determined without taking into account the possibility of installing your own rocket engine on a detachable Iskander-M warhead and 100 kg of thermonuclear charge with a capacity of 100 kt (instead of 480 kg of conventional charge). In this case, the flight range of the warhead - the second stage of the missile will be more than 1000 km and, accordingly, the range of the entire complex will be equal to +2000 km in exact accordance with the statement of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the RF Armed Forces dated March 1 of this year.

            PS At least three modifications of the Iskander are known for the type of rocket engine, detachable warheads and GOS. Why not another modification, especially since it will relate exclusively to the detachable part of the rocket?
  14. Old26
    Old26 14 March 2018 22: 47
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    Boeing 747 and the vertical launch of ballistic missiles at speeds of about 3M - this is nonsense.

    Vertical start at 3M speed with a Boeing 747? Could you come up with anything better?
    Here are the drawings of two planes. The first is the Boeing MS-747. Could carry 4 missiles weighing 45,4 tons or 8 missiles of 22,7 tons. Heavy are dumped through the tailgate, light - through the hatches in the floor of the cargo compartment


    The KR carrier aircraft - or SMCA - carries 9 launchers of 8 missiles each. Only 72 rockets. As a base aircraft - a cargo Boeing-747-200C


    Quote: Operator
    On the other hand, if one of the Americans comes up with your idea of ​​placing ballistic missiles on civilian airliners flying in transit through Russian airspace, then no later than a day later they will be aware of the SVR and GRU, and the transit will be covered with a copper basin.

    In a day? Well, how well I relate to the work of these structures, I am aware that this will not happen. Not in a day, but God forbid that in months this will become known. About 1500 Boeing 747s are operated in the world. if 30-40 of them are subjected to alteration, and signs of state ownership and belonging to any company will be applied in a closed hangar to any of the air bases, then these 30-40 or even half a hundred cars will simply dissolve in those one and a half thousand, which are exploited.
    It is possible to “close” the transit, but to whom, if one such aircraft will carry the coloring PAN AM, and the second coloring the country that has Boeing, the same India ??? Or close it to everyone, not only will there be tangible financial losses, so also our countries will close the airspace for our aircraft

    Quote: NN52
    And perhaps maybe you will not answer his nonsense, and waste your time ...
    Let it really fly in its Universe on whatever it thinks for itself ..

    Most likely yes. I'm tired of
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 16 March 2018 11: 42
      +1
      Dear Old 26!

      Cargo aircraft can be adapted to transport ballistic missiles, and in a number of countries they have long been available. It seems to me that you and the “Operator” lack “near-aviation” knowledge, that is, knowledge in some industries related to aviation, primarily in rocket science, theory of missile flight, geodetic support for their flight, combat effectiveness and probabilistic assessment of the reliability of an aircraft (missile ), device, layout, materials used, fuel components, start features, etc. The transportation and discharge of cargo from the air and the air launch of ballistic missiles are completely different things in terms and conditions of the operation. The complexity of the task today makes it impractical to use an air launch of ballistic missiles in comparison with the conditions of their launch from the earth or water surface.
  15. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2018 13: 23
    +2
    Quote: rubin6286
    Dear Old 26!

    Cargo aircraft can be adapted to transport ballistic missiles, and in a number of countries they have long been available. It seems to me that you and the “Operator” lack “near-aviation” knowledge, that is, knowledge in some industries related to aviation, primarily in rocket science, theory of missile flight, geodetic support for their flight, combat effectiveness and probabilistic assessment of the reliability of an aircraft (missile ), device, layout, materials used, fuel components, start features, etc. The transportation and discharge of cargo from the air and the air launch of ballistic missiles are completely different things in terms and conditions of the operation. The complexity of the task today makes it impractical to use an air launch of ballistic missiles in comparison with the conditions of their launch from the earth or water surface.

    They can be adapted. And probably there are a number of countries. The question is not to transport missiles, but to launch them from these aircraft.
    We do not consider the issue of knowledge related to "near aviation topics". A concrete example was given of the existence of projects of airborne launchers. The fact that cargo transportation and air launch are two different things - for me personally, I can not mention. This "Operator" has fantastic data on the theme of "Dagger" and MIG-31. I try to stand on the ground with my feet and an alternative story in this regard interests me little.

    The Americans once dumped their ballistic missile "Minuteman" from C-5A. We found out the possibility of this very reset. Work within a few seconds of the engine showed that a start is possible. Yes, it’s complicated, no one argues, Yes, from the point of view of geodetic support, the complex “missile-aircraft” loses to the complex “auto-chassis-missile” or “mine-missile”. And is less effective than PGRK or silos.

    The question is different. The agreement clearly stated a ban on BRVZ missiles with a range of more than 600 km on bombers and a ban on the use of transport aircraft as carriers of such weapons not because such a weapon system would have high or low efficiency. The question was that such media IMPOSSIBLE TO TRACK.

    Even in the process of concluding the OSV-2 treaty (1979), the Americans tried to push through this idea of ​​"airborne missile carriers." If you have the opportunity to delve into a serious library, then look at the filing of the bulletins of the "RKT" (rocket and space technology) for 1977-1979. If they considered the possibility of a vertical launch of Polaris-type missiles from their aircraft as something unrealizable, if not impossible, then with respect to the above projects, they had rather serious developments, especially with regard to the carrier of cruise missiles. And they really wanted articles on such systems not to be in the contract.

    Imagine how the USSR could track the flight of such missile carriers, when the number of Boeing 747 or DS-10 class aircraft was in the hundreds, if not thousands. this is exactly what I wanted to convey to the "Operator", but from his point of view, the SRV and the GRU would know about it on the same day ....
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 17 March 2018 10: 54
      +2
      Dear Old 26!

      The use of transport aircraft for air launch of ballistic missiles does not have sufficient stealth. Imagine that you want to put KAMAZ in your garage instead of a passenger car. Your GSK neighbors will see what you are doing with the garage? That's it ...
      The positional areas of our missile divisions and the American wing wings of Minuteman missiles are structurally similar. Information about their condition through space and other intelligence channels arrives in the Defense Ministry of both countries every 15 minutes. A ballistic missile with solid propellant rocket rocket should be stored somewhere close and under certain conditions before loading into the carrier, somehow delivered on board and the warhead must be properly checked and tuned before docking with the carrier, etc., etc. Additional structures, fuel and lubricants storage facilities, ammunition, special equipment, warehouses, hangars, diverters, service masts, etc. should appear in position areas. etc.) and besides, runways, taxiways, aircraft parking. In civilian airports, none of this exists. You can’t hide a civilian car, you cannot hide its use for military purposes. Our BTA planes “fly their whole lives” like aeroflot fleets and what, does the “adversary” not know about this?
      In the 70s, international taviatraces did not run over the continental part of the USSR, and in the “threatened period” this requirement will be immediately restored.

      Ballistic missile aircraft - warheads, all this resembles the principle of "nesting dolls". Why do we need a plane with subsonic speed to launch a ballistic missile, if it itself can deliver a warhead to the target and do it much faster?

      Speaking from the point of view of the “near-aviation industries”, all ballistic missiles with solid propellant rocket engines or LRE are designed for maximum range and acceptable accuracy. With this in mind, positioned areas of silos, PGRK complexes, patrol areas SSBNs were built. A ballistic missile cannot be launched from a specific target from anywhere. Theoretically, yes, practically no. That’s why the air launch of ballistic missiles “didn’t go” either with them or with us.

      For a long time (until the mid-90s) we did not remove the M-3 and M-4 from service, hoping to adapt them for this. Reason has triumphed.
  16. Old26
    Old26 17 March 2018 11: 26
    0
    Quote: rubin6286
    Dear Old 26!

    The use of transport aircraft for air launch of ballistic missiles does not have sufficient stealth. Imagine that you want to put KAMAZ in your garage instead of a passenger car. Your GSK neighbors will see what you are doing with the garage? That's it ...
    The positional areas of our missile divisions and the American wing wings of Minuteman missiles are structurally similar. Information about their condition through space and other intelligence channels arrives in the Defense Ministry of both countries every 15 minutes. A ballistic missile with solid propellant rocket rocket should be stored somewhere close and under certain conditions before loading into the carrier, somehow delivered on board and the warhead must be properly checked and tuned before docking with the carrier, etc., etc. Additional structures, fuel and lubricants storage facilities, ammunition, special equipment, warehouses, hangars, diverters, service masts, etc. should appear in position areas. etc.) and besides, runways, taxiways, aircraft parking. In civilian airports, none of this exists. You can’t hide a civilian car, you cannot hide its use for military purposes. Our BTA planes “fly their whole lives” like aeroflot fleets and what, does the “adversary” not know about this?
    In the 70s, international taviatraces did not run over the continental part of the USSR, and in the “threatened period” this requirement will be immediately restored.

    Ballistic missile aircraft - warheads, all this resembles the principle of "nesting dolls". Why do we need a plane with subsonic speed to launch a ballistic missile, if it itself can deliver a warhead to the target and do it much faster?

    Speaking from the point of view of the “near-aviation industries”, all ballistic missiles with solid propellant rocket engines or LRE are designed for maximum range and acceptable accuracy. With this in mind, positioned areas of silos, PGRK complexes, patrol areas SSBNs were built. A ballistic missile cannot be launched from a specific target from anywhere. Theoretically, yes, practically no. That’s why the air launch of ballistic missiles “didn’t go” either with them or with us.

    For a long time (until the mid-90s) we did not remove the M-3 and M-4 from service, hoping to adapt them for this. Reason has triumphed.

    Comrad. I am absolutely not opposed to what you wrote. The meaning of my post was that at that time the leaders of the countries considered this method of basing the most dangerous.
    With sputniks, everything is also clear. but note that they and we are working on elements of the strategic nuclear forces (PGRK, silos) we try to produce at a time when there are "windows". And I think that documentation on the state of the satellite constellation exists now in units and formations.

    Yes, most likely, additional facilities would have to be built at air bases, But in any case, according to those who made decisions then all this was covered by one plus. We, namely the Soviet Union, could not say with 100% guarantee that there were no cruise missiles or ballistic missiles inside this machine. The element of uncertainty remained

    The question (and it is more political than technical) why subsonic carrier planes were needed is not for me. Indeed, even the EMNIP in the 80s planned a variant of the TU-160 bomber with two Krechet-R intercontinental missiles. Range of about 7000 km and RGCh on 6 goals. Although everyone was well aware that the accuracy of its application would be worse than that of the same PGRK, not to mention the hospital. But they did the project ...
    Best regards
    1. NN52
      NN52 18 March 2018 16: 37
      +8
      Old26
      rubin6286

      Bravo!!! Well done !!! Without exaggeration!!!

      It is really interesting to read your exchange of opinions, with evidence of your theories.
      I'm glad that the specialists on the site remained ..
      You Old 26, although you weren’t in aviation, but you care about it ...
      And rubin6286, I apologize to you for the simulators ... I gladly reread your articles on the aviation forum for many years, RESPECT to you ...
      Only a small remark, from the pilot to you 31, and not only of this type, regarding turns, in KBP they are not shallow and deep, but a turn with a roll of 30, 45, 60 gr. turn not afterburner.
      Well, and about the vertical bend, you even better explained to one infantryman, even than I ...
      And I will be very glad to see you both in topics about aviation ... at least it will be pleasant for everyone to discuss with anyone ...
      WITH RESPECT.
  17. Alexander Petrov_3
    Alexander Petrov_3 April 18 2019 14: 03
    0
    Today, the top officials of the Russian Ministry of Defense in the Southern Federal District, got acquainted with the latest achievements of the Russian aviation industry, the results exceeded all expectations. According to reports from credible sources, ARC Dagger demonstrated capabilities that exceeded developers' expectations. As a result of pilot tests, completely unexpected damaging abilities of this system were revealed.