Military Review

Ukrainian "Rain" will change the balance of power in Syria

32
In the north-west of Syria, fighting continues between the Turkish army and Kurdish units. According to the information of the latter, from the end of January, Turkish forces lost about 400 people killed. There are losses in armored vehicles, which are 12 tanks and 9 armored vehicles. Most of them are more or less modern German Leopard-2A4 cars.


If the intensity of the fighting remains the same, then in half a year, the Turkish Armed Forces can lose more than 100 units of armored vehicles.

Without waiting for such a prospect, the Turkish Defense Ministry decided to equip its tanks with Akkor Pulat active defense complexes, which are analogous to the Ukrainian KAZ Zaslon-L. The latter, by the way, is the result of more Soviet developments according to the draft of the Dozhd tank defense complex.

From this we can conclude that the Ukrainians once gave the Turks documentation on these systems. The massive installation of KAZ on Turkish tanks will definitely be able to change the balance of forces in northwestern Syria.



32 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. svp67
    svp67 9 March 2018 10: 13
    +6
    From this we can conclude that the Ukrainians once gave the Turks documentation on these systems. The massive installation of KAZ on Turkish tanks will definitely be able to change the balance of forces in northwestern Syria.
    Ukrainians and the Poles shared it. And I do not agree that the appearance of this complex will somehow change the alignment of forces in the North-West of Syria. Turkey, as it had, will have an overwhelming advantage there over any of its opponents, since it simply has a very large army with only 4000 tanks.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 9 March 2018 16: 57
      +1
      Yes you are right. Sleep well, dear comrade!
  2. beeper
    beeper 9 March 2018 10: 52
    +20
    As a tanker, such tank protection systems only make me happy, academically ...
    In place of the Syrian government troops, defending themselves against the aggressor-occupying tanks protected by such systems, the first thing to do would be to try the method of synchronous shelling from two to three positions, in the same part of an armored object, with a second difference between shots (this is easy to arrange by submitting sound signals of launching arrows for anti-aircraft missile defense, using portable communicators or, since additional electronic warfare equipment can be used on the battlefield (or in the tank’s protection system), having previously agreed between the grenade launchers the boundaries and sequence of launching is the natural delay in the passage of nerve impulses and will give the necessary “backlash of time”, and there you can already see from the results of the shelling whether the (clearly sectoral) defense has time to react and for how long, whether it fully renews its capabilities, and adjust, look for effective methods of struggle, because a drop of stone also sharpens an inquisitive soldier’s mind and budget no obstacles at all! smile
    Military successes to the defenders of the people of Syria from international "democratic" terrorism!
    1. Baby sitter
      Baby sitter 10 March 2018 00: 43
      +2
      and this during the battle? nothing else comes to mind? type paint over optics ....?
      1. beeper
        beeper 10 March 2018 01: 48
        +7
        The battle and interaction is organized, usually even before its start-up, and during the battle it’s too late and inevitably new, “unaccounted factors” begin to appear - they would be managed and imposed, realize their plan, and not follow the one trying to impose an adversary yes
        It happens that you think of one thing, but in the “development of the situation” new opportunities are shown and it’s a sin not to use them — you must be able to notice and react flexibly in order to “insert every bast” into the storehouse of victory smile
        I’ll read with interest yours, albeit sarcastic in form, but sensible (and not just a “mensweary” boast of my kind of “immense umiage”, to which I have come such as “shading optics” - by the way, is there a rational grain in your “sarcastic the sentence "there is one way or another to blind the optical and optoelectronic devices-sensors of the tank, now it remains to figure out how to" crush "the radars of the tank defense system so that it does not" see "the attacking grenade-rockets, maybe, in the old way, on approaching the goal is to shoot a wide cloud of dipoles in order to slightly “shuffle” the radar or the “ballistic computer” controlling the system — every device, like almost everything, has vulnerabilities and limits, and it’s good when they are discovered by the adversary!) considerations in the foregoing commentary and topic of the article, because Topvar.ru is not only an information and news resource, but also a virtual platform for the exchange of views, including critical yes
    2. Vanych
      Vanych 18 March 2018 08: 39
      0
      the new RPGs are arranged like this, at first a small charge is fired which activates the active defense complex, then with a second delay the main one, so the kaz does not have time to fire again
  3. tchoni
    tchoni 9 March 2018 12: 09
    +1
    Judging by the fact that they are talking more and more about such systems, an interesting question arises: But, in general, how much is the traditional (albeit multi-layer) armor needed in this case? Is it possible that in the near future there will be a partial replacement of multi-ton armor plates of various kinds by “tricky devices”?
    1. beeper
      beeper 9 March 2018 19: 32
      +7
      Combined (multi-layer) armor is, in a way, one of the “trickiest devices” in armored vehicles. yes
      At the dawn of the last century, experimented, and not only in the Russian Empire, even with steel alloys with the addition of silver and platinum, to increase armor resistance.
      Titanium and aluminum alloys and various layered combinations with metals, plastics and ceramics are now used as armor.
      As long as there are armor-piercing ammunition of kinetic action, armor, in one form or another, will be used in the design of military vehicles in the air, on land and at sea.
      hi
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 10 March 2018 15: 17
        +1
        Quote: pishchak
        Combined (multi-layer) armor is, in a way, one of the “trickiest devices” in armored vehicles. yes
        At the dawn of the last century, experimented, and not only in the Russian Empire, even with steel alloys with the addition of silver and platinum, to increase armor resistance.
        Titanium and aluminum alloys and various layered combinations with metals, plastics and ceramics are now used as armor.
        As long as there are armor-piercing ammunition of kinetic action, armor, in one form or another, will be used in the design of military vehicles in the air, on land and at sea.
        hi

        I’m not explaining this to you a little. On the path of active use of combined armor went the Americans and the British. The result was 70 tons of vehicles, quite stable on the battlefield, but often a nightmare for the rear services. Nevertheless, the development of means of destruction has led to the fact that the security of even such 70-ton monsters like "Abrams" and "Changer" no longer suits their users (the losses of these machines still occur more often than their creators would like) The result was an appeal owners of heavy tanks to the idea of ​​active protection (such as the Americans, the Israelis, who race establish active protection on their racially-faithful tanks)
        In this connection, this question cannot help but arise: If active protection is so effective (even if it is only against anti-virus), and dynamic protection still fights against PBS well (it does not stop, of course, completely, but nonetheless .. ) it may be difficult to refuse complex, expensive, heavy, and sometimes dangerous multilayer armor (no, not completely, but nonetheless) ... Suppose that the armor thickness is left at a level of 40 mm. This, purely theoretically, is sufficient so that small-caliber shells would not penetrate, and the blast would not break through ... On the one hand, of course, it’s not like ice, to give up powerful armor, and, on the other hand, there’s a chance to have bm with tank protection in bmp format. Here, in fact, I would like to hear the opinion of those around us on this subject.
        1. pepel79
          pepel79 12 March 2018 16: 36
          +2
          I have long wanted to write about this newfangled KAZ "BARREL / RAIN", but I don’t have time ... But I will highlight the main points. The declared characteristics of the work on ammunition flying at a speed of up to 1400 m.s. (if the memory does not change), which suggests the possibility of its work on BOPs. However, modern shells have an initial speed of 1600-1700 m.s., which drops to the speed of operation at a distance of about 1800 -2000 meters. At the same time, it does not destroy the core of modern BPS, but has a lateral effect, increasing the chance of a rebound (in all photos, damaged cores of old BPS samples). This circumstance suggests that with regular operation, the projectile holds only the frontal projection of the tank, the board does not. According to the manufacturers of modern tanks, the armor of their offspring is capable of holding BOPSs with almost a 100% guarantee from 2000 meters and above. Even if you take a plus of 200 meters, then it goes down as a result of a huge minus.

          Take a look at this photo ... and ask a question ... But what about the MBT barrel ??? crying ... and how to fight without it or carry a spare ... laughing (Watch the video from the tests, there the tower is constantly turned back by the barrel, saying a lot). And the small actuation distance from the main armor will not protect the side projection of the tank or armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle in a circle from the penetration of the KS, since when the ammunition is detonated by KAZ systems, the latter still form a cumulative jet, although not full (estimated approximately in the caliber of a grenade , but conditionally it all depends on the shell of the ammunition, approach speeds, and other factors). So, that as you do not call it, the signature stamp "without the prospects of the project", in my opinion, is caused by the circumstances described above. hi
  4. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman 9 March 2018 15: 54
    0
    No one will give you deliverance — not God, not the King and not the Hero!
    We will achieve liberation with our own hand !!!
    Go ahead, horsemen! A fair wind to you for *** tsu!
  5. Berkut24
    Berkut24 9 March 2018 16: 51
    +14
    Ukrainians - sold without complexes. In addition to the whole Soviet backlog, they also sold the memory of their ancestors, and themselves, and the future of their children.
  6. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 9 March 2018 17: 02
    0
    From this we can conclude that the Ukrainians once gave the Turks documentation on these systems. The massive installation of KAZ on Turkish tanks will definitely be able to change the balance of forces in northwestern Syria.

    Guys, I have not approved this!
    (second call through Lavrov ......, but who did not have time, he was late)
  7. Ilya_Nsk
    Ilya_Nsk 9 March 2018 17: 56
    +2
    Let Kurds buy PT mines now ..
  8. gerkost2012
    gerkost2012 9 March 2018 22: 11
    +10
    We saw the remains of the Ukrainian T-64 with and without Rain. Under Izvarino, Lutugino and in other places. A tower in one place, the remains of a tank in another ... What got into it, how they yelled, who knows. I’ll note that if a 152mm shell hits the tank, you can at least put it there, and its iron head will still be demolished.
  9. Baby sitter
    Baby sitter 10 March 2018 00: 42
    0
    Quote: pishchak
    I would try the method of synchronous shelling from two or three positions, in the same part of the armored object, with a second difference between shots

    and this during the battle? nothing else comes to mind? type paint over optics ....?
    1. Ivan Medvedev
      Ivan Medvedev 10 March 2018 07: 48
      +1
      Tactics, then, adopted! One shot at 00:42, the other at 00:43. True, the delay is large. Apparently the processor is blunting!)))
  10. steelmaker
    steelmaker 10 March 2018 09: 25
    +1
    This suggests that you can only sell your technologies, but you can’t share them! And Turkey wants to produce S-400 at home.
  11. Anyone
    Anyone 10 March 2018 09: 35
    +1
    In the north-west of Syria, fighting continues between the Turkish army and Kurdish units. According to the latter, since the end of January, Turkish forces have lost about 400 people killed. There are losses in the armored vehicles that make up 12 tanks and 9 armored vehicles. Of these, the majority are more or less modern German cars "Leopard-2A4".

    The author of the article is a great dreamer in describing the Turkish losses. 21 units of armored vehicles! The Turks are defeated and retreat to Istanbul))
  12. Ramzay121
    Ramzay121 10 March 2018 11: 59
    +2
    "according to the information of the Kurds" the loss of Turks 400 people, 12 tanks ...., very confidential information))). Losses of 41 people and 1 tank. How much can you lie
    1. Anyone
      Anyone 10 March 2018 16: 05
      0
      Not 1 tank, of course, but not 12 ...
  13. Alexander Prikhodko
    Alexander Prikhodko 10 March 2018 13: 57
    +2
    everything from the USSR Russian as the legal successor-everything else stolen
  14. Fedot57
    Fedot57 10 March 2018 13: 58
    +8
    How much harm these filthy banderlogs did ... Saw, create, did not create anything, but sold everything, even my mother ... with ..... No words!
    1. rin
      rin 18 March 2018 12: 32
      +1
      You don’t even notice the poisonous splashing saliva that you exude even through clenched teeth. Hate for everyone, and especially for banderlogs. Indeed, apart from the great ... great people, no one else can claim either the historical or the technical achievements of the Russian people.
      You yourself are “suspecting” that in the Soviet-tank direction the very banderlogs were a locomotive and ALL the most advanced directly or indirectly related to the Ukrainian design bureaus (and this applies not only to tanks). But you continue to believe in the greatness of the Russians, the lowland Ukrainians, and that the greatness of the nation lies exclusively in the most advanced, powerful and world-smelting weapons that the Russians own, and the rest should be afraid of them.
      1. Maverick1812
        Maverick1812 20 March 2018 09: 44
        0
        They talk about power, not about the people. The territorial location of the design bureau does not at all speak of its national composition! KB Antonov, YUZHMASH, well, just purely Ukrainian personnel worked and are working. Read who worked at the Lviv Automobile Plant during Soviet times! There were more Armenians than ethnically pure Europeans! And the plant was probably closed due to decommunization, it was created in 1945 by order of I.V. Stalin. And it was necessary not to build factories in these territories, but after the war to return again to the Austro-Hungarians and Poles. Let them deal with the "rezunami" ....
      2. Clumsy
        Clumsy 20 March 2018 15: 04
        +1
        Quote: rin
        ALL the most advanced directly or indirectly related to the Ukrainian design bureau (and this applies not only to tanks). But you continue to believe in the greatness of the Russians, the lowland Ukrainians, and that the greatness of the nation lies exclusively in the most advanced, powerful and world-smelting weapons that the Russians own, and the rest should be afraid of them.

        You want to say that in ethnic Ukrainian design bureaus (only the Ukrainian SSR) exclusively ethnic Ukrainians worked (who is this?) and what does the current nationalist authorities have to do with the legacy of the USSR (you seem to have been de-communized)?
      3. Wened
        Wened 28 March 2018 13: 19
        0
        As the "famine", so the Russians arranged, and as factories and the "social network", so themselves ...
    2. rin
      rin 18 March 2018 15: 31
      0
      By the way, I found the article "Active Defense Complexes of Armored Vehicles", Conventional Arms, Precision Weapons, July 21, 2015, https://technowars.defence.ru/article/2043/ there are a lot of things on this topic. Like in ALL similar articles, where Russian development is not EXCLUSIVELY EXCLUSIVELY (even if the basis is imported electronics), the source (developer, manufacturer) is simply not indicated, but if it is Russian, it is completely and in detail.
      Read and draw conclusions.
  15. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 11 March 2018 15: 27
    -1
    And the transfer of the production technology of C-300 to the Turks - what is it called? And there is no need for songs that the technologies are not exactly the same .. and we have newer ones. After some time, the Turks will sell everyone their C-300 .. well, they will be called, for example, Uryuk-400.
    Have the Chinese taught anything?
    And then we will shrug our legs and whine - "will be able to change the balance of power ..".
    The main thing is now, this moment to cut down the loot ... but to hide in offshore.
  16. tank64rus
    tank64rus 11 March 2018 20: 41
    0
    I watched the use of KAZ Rain in comparison with the tests of the Arena is not very. More impact on the target means of destruction. The test base does not have modern equipment.
  17. Imobile
    Imobile 27 March 2018 16: 10
    0
    Quote: rin
    You don’t even notice the poisonous splashing saliva that you exude even through clenched teeth. Hate for everyone, and especially for banderlogs. Indeed, apart from the great ... great people, no one else can claim either the historical or the technical achievements of the Russian people.
    You yourself are “suspecting” that in the Soviet-tank direction the very banderlogs were a locomotive and ALL the most advanced directly or indirectly related to the Ukrainian design bureaus (and this applies not only to tanks). But you continue to believe in the greatness of the Russians, the lowland Ukrainians, and that the greatness of the nation lies exclusively in the most advanced, powerful and world-smelting weapons that the Russians own, and the rest should be afraid of them.

    My father, Russian, together with other Russians (there were no Ukrainians at first, but then there were still few) built Ukrainian factories. Even in small towns, 40 mailbox factories did. Although in Russia, in the native Tver, Smolensk and Pskov regions, not a single small workshop was built at that time. All for the republics! The presence of these plants is not the merit of the Ukrainian people - there was such a policy.
  18. Navy7981
    Navy7981 27 March 2018 23: 05
    0
    Ukrainians, in my opinion, sold everything they reached. And for cheap.