Military Review

The myth that Russia is part of European civilization

304



The epoch of Peter I became a turning point, as Russia was first openly tried to recode, turn into Europe. The turn to the West in Russia began under Boris Godunov and the first Romanovs, took shape as a priority project already under Princess Sofia and the government of Prince V. Golitsyn. But it was under Peter that Westernization became irreversible and eventually led to the 1917 civilization catastrophe of the year.

Peter's long trip abroad shaped his turn to the West. In August, 1698, when Pyotr Alekseevich will return to Moscow, a sense of anxiety and fear will engulf everyone, from Shein’s “generalissimo” to ordinary citizens. In the capital, the tsar was not very fond of tribute, which he imposed on the people, for his connection with German settlement. In the crowds of the common people, various rumors wandered: they were caused by dislike for the king and his innovations and were supported by the sovereign’s absence for one and a half years. They said that Tsar Peter Alekseevich was substituted abroad. As a result, the archers rose. Mutiny suppressed. But Peter, frightened, hurried to Moscow to "pull out the seed of Miloslavsky."

In modern Russia, in which in the 1990s they decided to restore the project of the Romanovs - to create a pro-Western Russia, the myth that Peter decided to return Russia to Europe is popular - ostensibly the Mongol-Tatar invasion has torn us off from European civilization and because of this, we are several hundred years behind in development. That is, Russia was originally part of the Western (European) civilization, but because of the yoke of the Golden Horde, it slipped into Eastern despotism, slavery. But the Romanovs began to turn to Europe, and Peter made it irreversible. We went on the "high road of the development of human civilization." Of course, there were mistakes like the horrors of serfdom, but after its abolition and reforms of Alexander II the Liberator, Russia allegedly finally became part of the West, moving towards the victory of democracy and the market. However, the "bloody Bolsheviks" led by Lenin and Stalin allegedly "killed the prosperous Russia of the Romanovs" and brought the country into a "communist dead end."

This is a myth for fooling the Russian people. Russia was originally a separate, self-sufficient civilization, with its code-matrix of development. The basis of the Russian matrix is ​​social justice, such concepts as conscience, truth and love. This is its fundamental difference from the Western project, which is based on social injustice, the desire of a small group of "elect" to enslave all of humanity.

In an ideal Russian project, the people and the authorities (the state) are one. Sobornost, fraternity and cooperation in solving national problems. The royal (princely) power is sacred, since they will solve national problems, uniting Heaven (Kingdom of Heaven) and the people in the work of building the Kingdom of God on earth (city of Kitezh). As soon as the elite of Russia-Russia refuses these ideals, begins to solve personal, narrow-group tasks, wait for the Troubles, as the answer of the Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos to injustice and managerial mistakes of the management layer.

In the western project of the Romanovs, catholicity was replaced by domination, cooperation by suppression, fraternity by hierarchy. The authorities declared themselves to be of the highest value and suppressed the people, turning them into a “population”. The people kept themselves, but the connection with the authorities was largely broken. Orthodoxy lost its essence due to the reform of Nikon, and under Peter, it finally became part of the state apparatus, one of the contours of government and control over the people. Faith has lost its essence, becoming a formality. The connection with heaven (kingdom of heaven) was destroyed.

The state and its owners - the Romanovs and their entourage - placed themselves above the people and the entire Russian civilization. The state now tried to change Russia, “civilize” it, make it part of the West. The Romanovs tried to replace the "Russian matrix", the basis of the foundations of the Russian people and civilization. Thus, Peter Alekseevich decided not only to modernize the state, the armed forces, the economy, science and education with the help of Western methods and technologies. He purposefully invaded the root of our civilization - its matrix-code, core, culture based on the Russian faith.

Therefore, the cultural revolution and became the basis of Peter's transformations. Shaving beards, European fashion, assembly meetings, tobacco - all these are only bright individual details. The king literally punched and iron planted Western culture, European "civilization" in Russia. For this, self-government and patriarchy were destroyed. For this, thousands of people died during the construction of the European capital of the “new Russia” - St. Petersburg. Peter tried his best to lead Russia to the "right way". He was not sorry for others. The deep meaning of this policy was well expressed by one of Tsar's close associates, Peter Saltykov: “The Russians are in every way similar to the Western nations, but they are behind them. Now we need to put them on the right path. "

Peter considered his country "backward." This view of the Fatherland was formed by Peter under the influence of foreigners, who “treated” him appropriately from childhood. It was they who gave Peter the image of a “developed European power” and predetermined his understanding of Russia as a “backward country”, which must be “corrected” by the most cruel and bloody methods. Western Europe made a huge impression on him. Strong regular armies and fleets, turbulent trade, large enterprises-manufactories, achievements of science and technology, educated people, etc. Against the background of an enterprising Europe, booming and striving to subdue the whole world, Russia seemed to Peter to be a miserable and deaf province.

Inspired by Europe, Pyotr Alekseevich experienced a double feeling for the Motherland: he loved and hated her. He loved, as N. Ya. Danilevsky noted, in Russia “its strength and power, which not only had a premonition, but had already created,” loved in it the instrument of his will and his plans, he loved the material for the building, which he intended to build on the model and the similarity of the idea originated in it, influenced by the European model; I hated the very beginnings of Russian life ... ”.

At the same time, we will be fair - the objective foundations of a fundamental reorganization of Russia took shape even before Peter. Under Godunov and the first Romanovs, Russian people were sent abroad to study, there was a desire for foreign languages, fashion, culture, trade with neighbors, and foreign military experts were invited to modernize the army. Russia during this period was subjected to strong external pressure from the East - a powerful Turkish empire with a vassal Crimean Khanate and the West. It was necessary to modernize the armed forces, develop trade, raise industry. It was necessary to develop science, technology and education. Without solving these tasks, Russia could once again plunge into the Troubles, degrade to become the prey of more powerful, military and technologically developed neighbors. To become a colony of the advanced Western powers, as will become not only the cultures and nationalities of America and Africa, but the developed ancient civilizations of India, Indochina and China. Russia could again disintegrate, as before, with the release of Novgorod, the western regions, etc.

Russia after the Troubles did not calm down, no wonder the XVII century was included in history as "rebellious age". The country was shaken by the powerful urban uprisings, Stepan Razin’s bloody war. Then more than once the riots were raised by riflemen. Since 1649, there has been a total enslavement of the peasants, which they did not like at all. In Little Russia (Ukraine) there was a civil war - the period of the Ruins. Nikon and Romanovs split the church and the people. A whole separate Russian world appeared - the Old Believer. At the same time, the Romanovs for a long time tried to suppress it with fire and sword. So, in 1666 - 1674. Tsarist troops stormed the stronghold of the Russian faith - the Solovki monastery. And taking it, the royal troops tortured and killed the monks who heroically fought for their abode. The Romanovs tortured and burned the spiritual leader of the adherents of the Russian faith, the archpriest Avvakum. However, despite the most severe repressions, supporters of the old faith stood and began to build their Russia. In 1708, the uprising of K. Bulavin began, which almost led to a new large-scale peasant war.

Thus, it was obvious that the country needed urgent changes. A systemic crisis could be the beginning of a new Troubles and the end of Russian civilization. As we see from history, modernization could be carried out without a total breakdown of the national culture, the matrix. For example, they were able to do it in Japan - the Meiji revolution. When the Japanese perfectly combined the regular army, armored fleet and railways with the preservation of Shinto and Buddhism (the basis of Japanese civilization), the emperor's sacred power and the samurai spirit in the new armed forces. Another successful example is China. In the Celestial Empire, the Communist Party was able to pull the country out of the terrible distemper, the collapse of the country and the semi-colonial regime, which poisoned millions of Chinese with opium. At the same time, the Chinese Communists retained the Chinese civilization code.

The problem of Peter was that the church schism had already happened before him. The project “hail of Kitezh” was destroyed before Peter, he did not know about it. He was left with a choice of two evils: 1) the degradation of the Romanov kingdom, which destroyed the Russian faith and enslaved the peasants, the periphery of the West and the death, perhaps very long; 2) an attempt to fundamentally modernize in a Western way, total Westernization of the social elite with the final enslavement of the main part of the people, turned into a “population”. Peter chose the path of Western modernization. His empire lasted more than two hundred years. Russia became one of the great European powers and world centers of power, had stellar years. Has achieved serious success in world politics, economics, science, art and education. However, the price of betrayal of the Russian matrix turned out to be transcendent. All the deep-seated contradictions in Russia of the Romanovs were driven inside, carefully lacquered reality, but a new explosion was inevitable. This led to the 1917 civilizational and state catastrophe of the year.
Author:
Articles from this series:
The myth of the "wretched" Tsarevich Alexei
"Soft power" of the West in the era of Peter the Great
304 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vard
    Vard 7 March 2018 06: 01
    +4
    In Holland and Germany, houses are still made of poop ... And this is European civilization ....
    1. dSK
      dSK 7 March 2018 07: 19
      +4
      degradation of the kingdom of the Romanovs, who destroyed the Russian faith

      Why do wizards study history, they themselves fellow with a mustache".
      1. dSK
        dSK 7 March 2018 09: 29
        +7
        "Do you need to know the commandments of a Christian? St. Nicholas of Serbia is sure that it is necessary not only to know, but also to fulfill. In Christianity, the bar is raised much higher. There, the basic and only law is the law of love. But in order to comprehend this law both with the mind and the heart, one must first go through "elementary school." In his work Explanation of the Ten Commandments: "One who does not understand in heart this chief God's law cannot accept either Christ or His teachings. He who does not learn to swim in shallow water will not be able to swim in depth, for he will drown. And whoever does not learn to walk before, will not be able to run, for he will fall and break. And whoever does not learn to count to ten before, can never count to a thousand. And whoever has never learned to read in syllables, will never be able to read fluently and speak eloquently. And whoever has not laid the foundation of the house before, will try in vain to build a roof. "
        Moral law - this is social law. This law is not one of the people invented and discovered, it the Lord gave to people. It depends on the execution or violation of moral law whether any society, small or large, will be happy or cursed. Any society will begin to develop successfully if the Lord blesses it, but will decline and disappear if it bears the curse of the Lord.
        The Decalogue and the "false name mind."(An article on the TV "Tsargrad".)
        1. Opera
          Opera 7 March 2018 10: 36
          +3
          And so it is.
        2. Opera
          Opera 7 March 2018 10: 59
          +12
          The topic is interesting, but the article is one-sided somehow! The Romanovs in it can easily be replaced by Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince Vladimir who baptized Russia, and Christianity by rodnoverie. Then you can leave everything unchanged. The personality of Peter 1 is very ambiguous. And the fact that the West recognizes it in fact as the only positive Russian autocrat makes you think somehow ...)
        3. kig
          kig 7 March 2018 12: 44
          +1
          I am the Lord your God ... may there be no other gods before me - the very first commandment. After that, there is no reluctance to read the rest.
          1. dSK
            dSK 7 March 2018 20: 21
            +1
            Quote: kig
            reluctance to read the rest.

            "Free will, and saved paradise."
            1. dSK
              dSK 7 March 2018 20: 33
              +5
              The square in Samara lost the name of a revolutionary homosexual and became Crimean.(TV "Tsargrad" 07.03.18/XNUMX/XNUMX) Former deputy of the Samara Provincial Duma, head of the Samara regional branch "Two-headed eagle" Dmitry Sivirkin achieved the renaming of the square, named after the revolutionary homosexual Uritsky, into Crimean. The issue ran into the rejection of administrative structures under the influence of marginal organizations for more than three years. The most ardent opponent of renaming was a regional organization "The Essence of Time"led by Kurginyan added Sivirkin. "Went with posters "Hands off Moses Solomonovich Uritsky - a Russian hero", in general, and comments are unnecessary, "he said. "Uritsky was shot dead by homosexual jealousy by his lover Leonid Kannegiser. This fact is not in doubt in serious research circles," - Sivirkin reported.
              According to him, when all this was publicized and shown to the public, the issue of renaming went very quickly. "People who lived at these addresses did not want to live on a street named after a pederast"- explained Sivirkin.
        4. Cynic
          Cynic 12 March 2018 11: 59
          0
          The world is Love ... Have you ever thought that in the West now the generation that was tearing up the old world with these words is in power?
          Old and very painful: An ideal world requires ideal people ...
      2. co-creator
        co-creator 7 March 2018 14: 58
        0
        Quote: dsk
        Why do "wizards" study history, they "themselves with a mustache."

        I DO NOT READ, but Orthodoxy was destroyed precisely by the Romanovs when they turned the church into a bureaucratic tool.
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 7 March 2018 09: 51
      +5
      ward
      You are right, these houses are the most striking embodiment of European culture.
      But the author did not have the courage to describe the real achievements of Western culture and the foundations of the Western economy.
      In Russia, Peter deliberately introduced the western administration, since it was there that they were ready for any meanness to achieve the goal, whatever it was. At the same time, verbal lace covers upright robbery and the slave trade
      Apparently the only European achievement is justifying oneself and hanging one's own abominations on those who are preparing to rob. This became especially apparent with the development of the dissemination of information.
    3. Vend
      Vend 7 March 2018 10: 05
      +5
      The turn of Russia to the west was determined by the fact that the orientation to the east has become obsolete. She no longer brought progressive development for Russia. It could only slow down. In the modern world, a different process is happening. The West can now only slow down Russia.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 7 March 2018 10: 38
      +3
      Quote: Vard
      In Holland and Germany, houses are still made of poop ..

      SAMAN - raw clay brick mixed with manure straw and some fibrous substances.
      And "ANYWHERE" in Russia did not build from it, yes. And still not standing. yes
    5. your1970
      your1970 7 March 2018 11: 34
      0
      Quote: Vard
      In Holland and Germany, houses are still made of poop ... And this is European civilization ....
      -Do not tell the technology? If you are talking about adobe, then there is a slightly different recipe ...
    6. Artek
      Artek 7 March 2018 13: 03
      +3
      in general, it would be nice to go further to sort out the history and ideology of our people.
      Throughout history, starting from Peter the state, Russia has NEVER been a sovereign and independent state in making decisions. It is possible to set aside the period of Stalin’s rule by itself, Stalin pursued ALMOST independent policy, but as a man of that time, and still saturated with communist ideology, he could not find a true and true path of development.
      As a representative of the national minority of Russia, Stalin was not destined to understand what nationalities are, who creates them and where they come from, why these nationalities are needed. The question of the origin of nationalities is the MOST IMPORTANT and carefully guarded issue of history.
      I will not go deep into the disclosure of this issue, but I can say that the new peoples / nationalities are not natural formations, but artificial and synthetic ones. It was the Romanovs who dealt with these issues. This is what they continue to do in our time. We are witnessing the emergence of new nations, for example, Kosovo, the "ancient Ukrainians," the Kazakhs wrote a story from the 15th and 16th centuries and already abandoned the Cyrillic alphabet, and so on. It is enough to see how many new states / nationalities have appeared in the last 200 years. Probably a hundred. In Germany there are a huge number of Russian place names, not Slavic, namely Russian, because the term "Slavs" is already a late notion of Romanov historians. And so on.
      Therefore, Samsonov should already stop writing “in line with and within,” and say specifically who the Russians are and why they all hate them and why the Russians always wage wars.
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 07
        +4
        Throughout history, starting from Peter the state, Russia was NEVER a sovereign and independent state in making decisions


        It is interesting, and who, for example, made decisions for Nikolay1 Palych then.
        This is an example.
        Russia has always, with the rare exception of short-term stooges of the West such as False Dmitriyev and Yeltsin, possessed and still has absolute sovereignty. Along with China and the USA. There are no more absolutely sovereign countries in the world
        1. Artek
          Artek 7 March 2018 17: 34
          +5
          Quote: Pissarro
          It’s interesting, and who, for example, made decisions for Nikolay1 Palych then

          German Nikolai1 Romanov made all his decisions exclusively in the interests of his German relatives, for example, he built the first Russian railway between Poland and Austria, and the railways in Russia later, the “Russian Tsar” is good

          Quote: Pissarro
          Russia has always, with the rare exception of short-term stooges of the West such as False Dmitriyev and Yeltsin, possessed and still has absolute sovereignty. Along with China and the USA. There are no more absolutely sovereign countries in the world


          present Putin's Russia transfers all money to the United States to a stab fund and does not finance its own economy at all. For example, the T14 tank has been ready for a long time, but there is no money, all the money is to the United States.
          http://svpressa.ru/blogs/article/194721/?utm_sour
          ce = warfiles.ru

          So much for "sovereignty"
      2. Thomas the Unbelieving
        Thomas the Unbelieving 8 March 2018 19: 04
        0
        All this has already been described and analyzed by our great historian Lev Nikolayevich Gumilyov, who created the theory of ethnogenesis. Read the source, trust only the facts.
      3. zolotinka21
        zolotinka21 10 March 2018 07: 35
        0
        You open your eyes straight :-) And "why do Russians always wage wars?" .
    7. Revolver
      Revolver 8 March 2018 04: 01
      +4
      Quote: Vard
      In the Netherlands and Germany, houses are still made of poop.

      What should they do? Forests were brought together at the beginning of the Middle Ages. Brick is expensive, and masons are even more expensive, not everyone noble can afford it, and blacks are even more so. So they sawed each log into several bars, knocked the frame out of them, and the space between the bars was filled more cheaply. In America, they still build it like this, the frame is made of 1.5 "x3.5" beams, and it is sewn up well on the outside if it is plywood, or even chipboard. Inside the walls, all pipes and cables are bred. After that, the space between the boards is filled with glass wool (innovation - somewhere before the 1960s left a void), and sewn inside with dry plaster. Outside hang siding (plastic under the lining). So even millions of villas are built, not only suburban homes for the middle class.
      There were more forests in Russia than there were people who wanted to build, and they put down log cabins, because logs are cheap, and sawing on bars is more expensive. In northern America and in Canada, where there were forests, log cabins were also laid during the initial development.
      By the way, in the same Ukraine and southern Russia, where there were no forests, they also didn’t cut five-wall huts, but built huts, all the same.
  2. Streletskos
    Streletskos 7 March 2018 06: 23
    +24
    Russia is both Europe and Asia. Of course, the first is more important.
    The fact that Russia is part of European civilization, said Peter and Catherine.
    And this is SO.
    It would not be desirable for someone to make Russia exclusively Asia
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 7 March 2018 07: 26
      +7
      It was during the times of PETRAI and Catherine that the exploitation of serfs increased at times, the nobility spoke in foreign languages, a nobility formed, oriented to Europe, not counting Russians as people. .
      1. Streletskos
        Streletskos 7 March 2018 07: 40
        +25
        Serfdom was officially formalized in the Cathedral Code of 1649 - even under the priest of Peter.
        Europe-oriented nobility formed

        And if she focused on Turkey or Persia - would it be better ?? There certainly did not count people as people.
        not counting Russian people. .
        yeah of course you say too.
        Speaking of excesses.
        Just in Russia, there are a lot of features from the eastern despotism - from there are excesses.
        And in Europe, during the era of Peter and Catherine, a long time ago, there was no serfdom nor much else.
        1. Artek
          Artek 7 March 2018 13: 11
          +3
          Quote: Streletskos
          Serfdom was officially formalized in the Cathedral Code of 1649 - even under the priest of Peter.


          serfdom Alexei Mikhailovich and serfdom under Peter have significant differences. In the middle of the 17th century, serfdom entrenched people in a certain territory and everything, without depriving other rights. And serfdom introduced by Peter is already slavery, when a person turned into goods and cattle without any rights. And besides, the very fact of conciliar laying in 1649 may not correspond to the declared date, but it could happen much later at the same time Peter.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 7 March 2018 13: 37
            +1
            Quote: Artek
            And serfdom introduced by Peter


            What legislative act was this drawn up?
            1. Artek
              Artek 7 March 2018 13: 42
              +3
              Quote: Gopnik
              Quote: Artek
              And serfdom introduced by Peter


              What legislative act was this drawn up?

              it is ridiculous, and with what legislative act in present-day Russia such a huge separation is made between the rich and the poor, when Sechin gets 2.5 miles / rub / day, and in employment centers they offer people salaries of 8-10 thousand / rub / month.?
              However, maybe there is such an act in nature. For example, everyone believed in Russia the Inquisition was not then a book was published in which this fact is proved by examples.
            2. co-creator
              co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 09
              0
              Quote: Gopnik
              What legislative act was this drawn up?

              Google.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 7 March 2018 17: 02
                +1
                google, did not find. Now I'm waiting, maybe those who, with a clear eye, say this will answer for their words?
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 7 March 2018 20: 36
                  +1
                  HAVE NOT FOUND HOW did peasants sell? How to flog them, etc. Happenes.
            3. Looking for
              Looking for 7 March 2018 15: 54
              0
              How is it any right Artek. Sam invented. Sam and legitimized.
            4. Cat
              Cat 7 March 2018 20: 17
              +4
              Quote: Gopnik
              Quote: Artek
              And serfdom introduced by Peter



              What legislative act was this drawn up?

              Sad!
              It’s necessary not to “google”, but to open a textbook on the history of the state and law of Russia and insight will find you!
              What is the point of crushing water in a mortar, if there is no basic knowledge of the seventh grader in the head. Not having a knowledge base of historical and legal disciplines, basic scientific views and work on the subject
          2. Streletskos
            Streletskos 7 March 2018 15: 49
            +15
            Artek
            the fact of the conciliar code in 1649 may not correspond to the declared date, but could happen much later

            The Lord is with you, what are these fantasies for.
            This is a very major act. Adopted by the Zemsky Cathedral. Everything is transparent and unambiguous.
            1. Artek
              Artek 7 March 2018 17: 17
              +1
              Quote: Streletskos
              Artek
              the fact of the conciliar code in 1649 may not correspond to the declared date, but could happen much later

              The Lord is with you, what are these fantasies for.
              This is a very major act. Adopted by the Zemsky Cathedral. Everything is transparent and unambiguous.


              we know that only time was turbulent, then the war with the Crimea, then the war with the Poland, then the WAR with the split, the Razinsky riot, the streltsy riots, then again the war with the Crimea. There is no doubt what, for example, from the time of Ivan the Terrible there is almost no correspondence left, the same thing about Boris Godunov, almost no documents, we don’t know anything about the First Northern War either, but about the Razin uprising, no documents were preserved at all. But the Cathedral Council, in contrast to all these events, reached us in good condition. This is strange. Well, and besides, the talk about serfdom, when slavery was introduced in fact? It is with Peter.
        2. co-creator
          co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 08
          +3
          Quote: Streletskos
          And in Europe, during the era of Peter and Catherine, a long time ago, there was no serfdom nor much else.

          You at least google first, and then write.
          Quote: Streletskos
          Just in Russia, there are a lot of features from the eastern despotism - from there are excesses.

          Yeah, in Europe there was no despotism. Are you a liberal or something, or just a stupid man?
          1. Streletskos
            Streletskos 7 March 2018 15: 51
            +15
            Well, google the master here))
            You can’t argue with that))
            Yeah, in Europe there was no despotism. Are you a liberal or something, or just a stupid man?

            I did not write about despotism if that.
            Well, not dumber than yours
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 7 March 2018 16: 47
              +1
              Quote: Streletskos
              Well, google the master here))

              Well, apparently you can’t. I will prompt then. PRUSSIA.
              Quote: Streletskos
              I did not write about despotism if that.

              How is it that you wrote that in Russia there are many features of the Eastern despotism. I ask you, do you think there was no despotism in the West? Yes, until the age of the 18th, at least it was more than in Asia.
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 March 2018 07: 44
        +9
        yeah, Yaroslav the Wise is married to a Swede and a Norwegian, has made children with Poles, Greeks, Hungarians, French, etc. Some princes generally mestizos incl. the protagonist of "Words about Igor's Regiment". The Kremlin, the Archangel’s Cathedral, the Faceted Chamber, the Assumption Cathedral, Ivan the Great Bell Tower, Kitay Gorod, the Kremlin Palace and a bunch of kremlins and churches from Nizhny to Veliky Novgorod are built by foreigners, iron and tin are brought from the West with all Rurikovichs - and the Romanovs are to blame for everything who betrayed the ETERNAL UNIQUE Russia am
        1. Streletskos
          Streletskos 7 March 2018 07: 57
          +19
          Why are the Romanovs to blame?
          Rather, the Mongol-Tatars, which were not))
          That's right, in the time of the Wise, development went nose to nose. And the invasion not only delayed for 300 years, but also adopted the Asiatic - including in administration systems, taxation, and in everyday life.
          No wonder the old saying: "rub the Russian - you will find a Tatar."
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 7 March 2018 08: 04
            +7
            there were no Mongol Tatars - there was a glitch in the matrix code + the Vatican conspiracy and the Western project! Now the matrix was given for flashing wassat
            1. Streletskos
              Streletskos 7 March 2018 08: 07
              +20
              Yes, that's for sure)
              good laughing wink wassat
          2. co-creator
            co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 15
            +1
            Quote: Streletskos
            No wonder the old saying: "rub the Russian - you will find a Tatar."

            Well, go and rub it, but you won’t find any Tatar. Science, brother, this is not your language to grind.
            Quote: Streletskos
            That's right, in the time of the Wise, development went nose to nose. And the invasion not only delayed for 300 years, but also adopted the Asiatic - including in administration systems, taxation, and in everyday life.

            Eco poked you.
            1. Streletskos
              Streletskos 7 March 2018 16: 01
              +15
              Well go and rub

              Well, we kind of didn’t go over to you
              Science, brother, this is not your language to grind.

              what science? I said that there is such a proverb - rub the Russian (scooped up) and you will find a Tatar. they spoiled the people with good, not without reason a saying.
              it’s not your language to grind.

              That’s not shallow - those
              Eco poked you.

              Yes, even the word "customs" comes from the Tatar "tamga" ("trade duty"). “Money” - from “tenge”. What about mail?
              Etc. etc.
              Regarding the 300th anniversary of the lag due to Iga, reputable Soviet historians write, not a couple of google fraternities.))
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 7 March 2018 17: 00
                +3
                Quote: Streletskos
                what science? I said that there is such a proverb - rub the Russian (scooped up) and you will find a Tatar. they spoiled the people with good, not without reason a saying.

                There is a saying, but science says that no one was spoiled. There is no Mongolian gene from the word at all, and the Turkic is a common error as with any neighbors.
                So think what TATARs were implied in this saying were in those days, at least it was not a people or ethnic group. A saying was invented later or from the borderland.

                Quote: Streletskos
                Yes, even the word "customs" comes from the Tatar "tamga" ("trade duty"). “Money” - from “tenge”. What about mail?

                There are 250.000 words in Russian and only 20 thousand have Turkic roots. That is the whole answer. And replacing your words with others is more convenient or just like your usual practice. For example, “dukarnya-typography”, “head-mayor”, “army-army”, “banner-flag”, “warrior-soldier”, etc. There are THOUSAND such examples.
                Quote: Streletskos
                Regarding the 300th anniversary of the lag due to Iga, reputable Soviet historians write, not a couple of google fraternities.))

                Now you need to understand what is behind except science and medicine. This lag was quickly overtaken, but the division of people into estates and the unwillingness to refuse it led to a real lag of RI from the west. Who divided the people into estates? So this is our advanced elite, which was completely pro-Western, spoke their language and copied everything from there. But Ivan the Terrible and Alexei Mikhailovich, spoiled by the Mongol yoke, did not think of dividing the people into estates.
          3. Weyland
            Weyland 7 March 2018 20: 23
            +1
            Quote: Streletskos
            old saying: "rub the Russian - you will find a Tatar."

            This is not a saying, but Karamzin’s self-justification (Genghiside, by the way)
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 7 March 2018 14: 19
          +2
          What do you want? As if the author is unknown to you?
        3. co-creator
          co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 18
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The Kremlin, the Archangel Cathedral, the Faceted Chamber, the Assumption Cathedral, Ivan the Great Bell Tower, Kitay-Gorod, the Kremlin Palace and a bunch of Kremlin and churches from Nizhny to Veliky Novgorod are built by foreigners, iron and tin are brought from the West

          That is, the Russians did not melt iron iodine, did not build fortresses and churches? Are you sorry in your mind?
          Quote: Tlauicol
          and the Romanovs, who betrayed the PRIMINENT UNIVERSAL Russia, are to blame for everything

          Those who destroy are to blame. If tomorrow Putin permits a gay parade, who will be to blame? Uncle Vasya?
          If your culture is replaced by a Western one, this is a betrayal of its roots. Shaving beards and girls to drink and then tra..hah to progress has nothing to do.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 7 March 2018 16: 46
            +2
            It turns out, the first traitor of primordial Russia, Prince Vladimir?
            Swimmers brought marsh iron from the west, built it themselves and invited fries, Greeks - all traitors from the 10th century, or is this a historical process?
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 7 March 2018 17: 32
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              It turns out, the first traitor of primordial Russia, Prince Vladimir?

              He could not be a traitor, since there was no Russian people yet. His formation was going on. And actually he just changed religion, and tried to make the Greeks from the Slavs.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Swimmers brought marsh iron from the west, built it themselves and invited fries, Greeks - all traitors from the 10th century, or is this a historical process?

              Well, excuse me, there are no iron mines in Russia. The Greeks and Fryaz were given titles, appointed commanders of all squads, forced the elite to learn their language and speak it? So ? Or technical progress and culture are two different things.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 7 March 2018 19: 34
                +1
                technological progress and culture are different things, but things are interconnected, and if you are not scribbling comments in the Urals or West, this is not a betrayal, but part of the history and interaction of cultures, and the fact that you are sitting in jeans is not a European conspiracy
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 7 March 2018 20: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  technological progress and culture are different things, but things are interconnected, and if you are not scribbling comments in the Urals or West, this is not a betrayal, but part of the history and interaction of cultures, and the fact that you are sitting in jeans is not a European conspiracy

                  To assess what happened you just need to go to China or Japan. You can to Turkey. There, too, remnants were eliminated by force, but no one changed the culture and code of the people. On the contrary, its own culture is the cornerstone of these countries and elites.
                  I wear jeans because it’s comfortable, and not because without them you can’t take revenge on progress. . Peter, on the other hand, forced them to wear clothes precisely so that everyone would become Europeans. And taught girls to drink, and then under the expensive foreigners to put. Apparently the only way to get progress?
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 8 March 2018 06: 00
                    +1
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    There, too, remnants were eliminated by force, but no one changed the culture and code of the people. On the contrary, its own culture is the cornerstone of these countries and elites.

                    Do we have our own Russian culture in our country? After Peter? Bullshit delirious! And what is "changed the code of the people"? - Something from Kashchenko? or Asimov?
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 8 March 2018 11: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Do we have our own Russian culture in our country?

                      Can you read or just chat?
                      t
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      And what is "changed the code of the people"? - Something from Kashchenko? or Asimov?

                      How do I know, you came up with and ask me.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 8 March 2018 12: 40
                        +1
                        I figured it out ? belay maybe I'm writing comments for you?
      3. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 07: 50
        +17
        Quote: Reptiloid
        know, oriented to Europe, not counting Russian people. .


        Oh really? That is why Rumyantsev, Suvorov, Ushakov, Nakhimov, Kutuzov, Istomin, Kornilov (Sevastopol) considered their soldiers and sailors to be people. They called them brothers, cherished in battles. Baron Wrangel generally in the forefront of his cavalry went on the attack. Oleg Konstantinovich Romanov died in battle, covering his people. Pushkin, Lermontov, Gogol, Dostoevsky wrote about Russians with love. And Satykha, who was mocking her peasants, was tried. Unlike the Polish lords, who were sovereign over the population of their villages.
        1. karish
          karish 7 March 2018 07: 55
          +2
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And Satykha, who was mocking her peasants, was tried. Unlike the Polish lords, who were sovereign over the population of their villages.

          Your comments are pretty balanced.
          except this one.
          excuse me, to begin with, Poland was also part of the Russian Empire, and * mockery * Saltychikha (mockery belay ) - In general, it looked like the murder of 138 serfs. did you judge her? exiled to the monastery.
          Darya Nikolaevna Saltykova, nicknamed Saltychikha [1] [2] and the "cannibal" [2] (in girlhood - Ivanova [2]; March 11 (22), 1730 - November 27 - December 9, 1801) - a Russian landowner who went down in history as a sophisticated sadist and serial killer of several dozen serfs subject to her [1]. By the decision of the Senate and Empress Catherine II, she was deprived of the dignity of a pillar noblewoman and sentenced to life imprisonment in a monastery prison, where she died [

          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 08: 04
            +8
            Dear karish, I agree with you, I did not exactly describe the crimes of Saltychikha. But, speaking of her punishment, it must be clarified that Catherine the Great was an opponent of the death penalty (Pugachev — an exception), therefore, the punishment for the criminal was imposed similar to life imprisonment.
            Speaking of Poland, I had in mind the period of Polish history before the partition of Poland, when the gentry possessed a tremendous amount of rights and almost complete independence from state power.
            1. karish
              karish 7 March 2018 08: 12
              +2
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Speaking of Poland, I had in mind the period of Polish history before the partition of Poland, when the gentry possessed a tremendous amount of rights and almost complete independence from state power.

              I think you should not pull out from the general history and compare different time periods.
              Serfs were equally disenfranchised. Almost slaves.
              the author of the article generally pulls the owl on the globe, so commenting on his nonsense 9 the author will forgive me) is generally stupid.
              Was Poland a part of * advanced * Europe?
              Or is it still part of Russia and the Slavic state?
              In Europe, in most countries, serfdom disappeared in the Middle Ages, in Russia and Poland until the end of the 19th century.
              This is a general question.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 08: 24
                +5
                Quote: karish
                I think you should not pull out from the general history and compare different time periods.

                That's right. However, I would like to note that the Saltychikha incident and unlimited noble liberties were events of the same temporary order.
                1. karish
                  karish 7 March 2018 08: 37
                  +3
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  However, I would like to note that the Saltychikha incident and unlimited noble liberties were events of the same temporary order.

                  Let's not distort again. I write again - you have fairly balanced comments, do not go into excesses.
                  And then something about you Saltychikha - an incident and bullying (and this is in relation to many tens of people tortured to death by her) And in relation to the gentry - it’s just awful.
                  Human trafficking continued in Russia until February 1861. True, there is a formal ban on selling serfs with separation of families and without land, and the right of homeless nobles to acquire serfs is limited. But these prohibitions were easily circumvented in practice. Peasants and farmsteads were bought and sold as before, wholesale and retail, but now in the newspapers such ads were masked: instead of “sold by a serf,” it was written “letting go,” but everyone knew what was really meant. Tcorporal punishment of serfs was extremely widespread. Often such punishments ended with the death of the victims, but the landowners almost never carried any responsibility for the murders and injuries of their servants

                  Saltychikha was neither an incident nor an exception.
                  the landowners killed and mocked their slaves (the serfs 0 sold them, changed them. lost to cards.
                  used as cattle. flogged. scoffed and generally did what they wanted.
                  Of course, not all.
                  But everything that I wrote existed everywhere and in no way (it was practically not prosecuted by the judicial authorities
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 03
                    +7
                    You are drawing a straightforward demonic picture of the existence of Imperial Russia, they say, the landowners, only engaged in the fact that they traded their peasants and beat them to death. Do not you think this approach to Russian history ... somewhat biased?
                    PS I would be grateful for the source of your quote.
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 7 March 2018 12: 24
                    +5
                    Some propaganda nonsense, such as "formally banned, but we know, in fact ... almost never any ..." The bans were not formal, but real. For the killing and mutilation of serfs, landowners were really punished, as well as for bringing to ruin and bullying.
                  3. avva2012
                    avva2012 8 March 2018 11: 45
                    +2
                    karish
                    Saltychikha was neither an incident nor an exception.
                    the landowners killed and mocked their slaves (the serfs 0 sold them, changed them. lost to cards.
                    used as cattle. flogged. scoffed and generally did what they wanted.
                    Of course you're right.
                    https://scisne.net/a-533?pg=6 Russia is serfdom. The history of national slavery B.Yu. Tarasov
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 7 March 2018 10: 55
                +4
                Quote: karish
                Europe in most countries, serfdom disappeared in the Middle Ages, in Russia and Poland until the end of the 19th century.

                Slavery and the slave trade (and this is worse than serfdom) in the West were canceled only in the 19th century- Not much earlier than the abolition of serfdom in Russia, and in the USA - LATER.
                In Russia, the slave trade was not.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  In Russia, the slave trade was not.

                  Selling peasants isn't that a slave trade?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 7 March 2018 15: 59
                    +3
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Selling peasants isn't that a slave trade?

                    No.
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 7 March 2018 17: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      No.

                      But what do you think?
              3. co-creator
                co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 27
                +2
                Quote: karish
                In Europe, in most countries, serfdom disappeared in the Middle Ages, in Russia and Poland until the end of the 19th century.

                In Prussia, only a few years before the Republic of Ingushetia was canceled, in the USA, was slavery abolished in which year?
          2. lesnik1978
            lesnik1978 7 March 2018 08: 11
            +7
            At that time, the death penalty was abolished. When the Belarusian lands occupied by Poland reunited with the Russian Empire, the killing of Belarusian peasants by the Polish pans practically stopped, the liberties of the Polish gentry were also annulled, and a number of bonded taxes were abolished. It has become a little easier for people to live. Many Belarusians have a genetic hatred of Poles and Catholicism. We do not say, for example, Catholic Christmas, but they say Polish Christmas.
          3. Weyland
            Weyland 7 March 2018 20: 26
            0
            Quote: karish
            did you judge her?

            Of course - for life and soldered by a court verdict. Because then the tower was given only for politics, and not for criminal activity - its noble origin did not influence here! And Poland at the time when it was judged was still sovereign
        2. co-creator
          co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 25
          +1
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Oh really? That is why Rumyantsev, Suvorov, Ushakov, Nakhimov, Kutuzov, Istomin, Kornilov (Sevastopol) considered their soldiers and sailors to be people. They called them brothers, cherished in battles.

          Have they really let all the serfs go? Maybe not flogged and sold? Oh yes, they called them brothers.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Baron Wrangel generally in the forefront of his cavalry went on the attack.

          What a good man, went on the attack. True, while hanging many thousands, this is the cost of the profession.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Pushkin, Lermontov, Gogol, Dostoevsky wrote about Russians with love.

          Well, all persuaded, everywhere love and French rolls.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And Satykha, who was mocking her peasants, was tried. Unlike the Polish lords, who were sovereign over the population of their villages.

          Saltychikha was tried, and others? Well, for example, those who exchanged peasants for dogs and girls tra..hal starting from children and ending with married. How was the Orthodox Church looking at harems from serfs? Condemned, excommunicated a lot from the church?
        3. Net
          Net 7 March 2018 17: 34
          +1
          Here about Pushkin it is not necessary to fan the Bolshevik myth - it is difficult to think of a more disgusting creature. For a long time, the Bolsheviks sought this nasty thing to humiliate the Russian people and literature.
      4. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 March 2018 07: 56
        0
        and who taught the Russian people to kneel before his master: Europe or Asia?
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 08: 05
          +5
          Before the Mongol yoke, there was no such tradition in Russia ...
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 7 March 2018 08: 08
            +6
            here I am about the same. So what's worse: shaving a beard and building a city and navy according to the western model, or crawling on its stomach in the eastern?
            the question is rhetorical and is not addressed specifically to you
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 08: 26
              +5
              Quote: Tlauicol
              So what's worse: shaving a beard and building a city and navy according to the western model, or crawling on its stomach in the eastern?


              Totally agree with you. hi
            2. co-creator
              co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 38
              +4
              Quote: Tlauicol
              or crawl on his stomach in the east

              Once again I ask the question who taught in Europe to crawl on the belly of a local servitor?
              Quote: Tlauicol
              to shave a beard and build on the western model of the city and navy

              What prevents a beard from building ships? They built it before Peter and the beard did not interfere, in Europe it did not interfere with anyone either.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              the question is rhetorical and is not addressed specifically to you

              The question is idiotic. In Europe, the servants just thumped and crawled on the belly in front of their boyars. Moreover, the transformation into slaves occurred precisely under Perth the first.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 7 March 2018 17: 12
                +1
                Idiots accuse Peter of shaving beards and European fashion, not noticing his great deeds
                By the way, if you will communicate in a similar manner, then go to xer
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 7 March 2018 17: 40
                  +5
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Idiots accuse Peter of shaving beards and European fashion, not noticing his great deeds

                  So the conversation is not about his deeds, but the fact that he began to change Russian identity to Western. Hence the two nations - the Russian and the aristocracy who did not understand each other and hated. More ubl.yu..skogo veneration of all the western and liso..obrazovaniya to foreigners from the west nowhere else in the world like in Russia anymore. I do not take small countries.
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  By the way, if you will communicate in a similar manner, then go to xer

                  Yes Easy. Read the west further.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. Luga
                  Luga 7 March 2018 18: 30
                  +4
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  By the way, if you will communicate in a similar manner, then go to xer

                  Congratulations, colleague. You have excellently resisted the superior forces of rudeness and ignorance. I wholeheartedly applaud you and even envy the endurance and patience that you showed in the polemic with the "consensual" user. Such a short-sighted and boorish, unpleasant and cynical, but at the same time active and assertive figure you will not often find. Even my “beloved” venaja was not so tiring and, perhaps, more innocent and sincere in his nonsense.
                  I think, in the person of a “conscript,” we have a completely competent and trained troll, who has well mastered certain training manuals, but is not able to apply them creatively, which is why there is a clear pattern in his methods of conducting polemics.
                  Pay attention how with childlike spontaneity he shifts the emphasis of the conversation, how he tries to bring the interlocutor out of psychological balance, moves away from the main or essential topics of the controversy, forcing him to exchange for trifles and to disperse attention. In exchange for his own general “reasoning on the topic,” he requires direct evidence with links to sources, suggesting to refute his own delusional theses with reason, without independently confirming them.
                  I assure you, you have spent many times more time on a polemic with this individual, which is probably the key element of his tactics - to tire, naughty, enjoy.
                  However, I admit that such skills can also be mastered due to the general natural increased excrement of the body.
                  Accept again the expressions of my admiration for your patience and endurance that you have shown in recent days.
                  Good luck. hi
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 7 March 2018 19: 28
                    +3
                    thank. fellow strongest troll on the site. time eater
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 7 March 2018 20: 44
                      +1
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      thank. fellow strongest troll on the site. time eater

                      Well, you’re not a Troll, so enter into the Luzhny sect, he seems to be collecting it in this thread laughing It’s very convenient, you don’t need to think, just give in and spit on others from above. wassat
                      Well, you're not a troll ...
                  2. co-creator
                    co-creator 7 March 2018 20: 24
                    +1
                    You pour water again laughing Notably, notably. I was especially pleased that you have a sect looming, luring a new adept bully
                    1. Cat
                      Cat 8 March 2018 05: 21
                      +4
                      Is Michael a sectarian? Everyone has arrived ....
                      Attention!
                      Announced recruitment in the sect of demon-worshipers-amateurs of history of encyclopedia opponents of falk-history!
                      Charter of the sect.
                      1. Have a basic amount of knowledge on Russian history within the framework of a comprehensive school.
                      2. On the shelf of the house in the presence of at least five encyclopedias (encyclopedia for a young housewife is not considered).
                      3. Read the works of at least three pre-revolutionary Russian historians (Solovyov, Klyuchevsky, Karamzin, Kostomarov).
                      4. Start reading a textbook on the history of state and law of Russia!
                      I propose that the sect be headed by the supreme archiopagus in the person of the manifestations of Satan Mikhail (Luga) and Viktor Nikolayevich Popov. To appoint the Shpakovsky (Caliber) as an honorary member.
                      In the inquisition of cats from the devil me and Mikado.
                      Adherents will turn in PM. Do not disturb hamsters, or rather disturb them, because your humble servant eats with mice. I’d like to recognize what they read for breakfast!
                      1. Net
                        Net 8 March 2018 09: 18
                        0
                        In the list of historians, it does not hurt to add another domestic historian - Prigozhin
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. co-creator
                        co-creator 8 March 2018 11: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Kotischa
                        Announced recruitment in the sect of demon-worshipers-amateurs of history of encyclopedia opponents of falk-history!

                        Galileo approves.
                        Quote: Kotischa
                        I propose that the sect be headed by the supreme archiopagus in the person of the manifestations of Satan Mikhail (Luga) and Viktor Nikolayevich Popov. To appoint the Shpakovsky (Caliber) as an honorary member.

                        Quote: Kotischa
                        In the inquisition of cats from the devil me and Mikado.

                        My dear, all the senior positions are already distributed, so you can only assent to the guru and spit on others from above. Late-s.
          2. karish
            karish 7 March 2018 08: 18
            +3
            Quote: Tlauicol
            and who taught the Russian people to kneel before his master: Europe or Asia?

            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Before the Mongol yoke, there was no such tradition in Russia ...

            How do you know ? wink
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 20
              +4
              Quote: karish
              How do you know ?

              He deigned to study history according to sources, not opus hoaxes. That's why I know. hi
          3. co-creator
            co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 34
            +1
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Before the Mongol yoke, there was no such tradition in Russia ...

            Did you live then? In what chronicles is it written that the Mongols forced to drink and kneel? Europeans who taught this?
        2. co-creator
          co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 32
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          and who taught the Russian people to kneel before his master: Europe or Asia?

          And who taught the Europeans? Martians?
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 7 March 2018 17: 22
            0
            Quotation: blooded man
            Quote: Tlauicol
            and who taught the Russian people to kneel before his master: Europe or Asia?

            And who taught the Europeans? Martians?

            Asia. And Alexander was the first to try
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 7 March 2018 08: 24
      +2
      Quote: Streletskos
      The fact that Russia is part of European civilization, said Peter and Catherine. And this is SO.

      The difference between civilizations is in their culture. Russian civilization has never been part of Western or Eastern civilization.
      1. karish
        karish 7 March 2018 08: 25
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: Streletskos
        The fact that Russia is part of European civilization, said Peter and Catherine. And this is SO.

        The difference between civilizations is in their culture. Russian civilization has never been part of Western or Eastern civilization.

        And who do you attribute to Eastern civilization?
        China, Japan. Indonesia India Arabs. Iran, republics of Central Asia. what's up with africa wink
        we will attribute these to what civilization?
        1. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 7 March 2018 08: 43
          0
          I agree with you, dear. If Western civilization, thanks to the Romans and Germanic tribes, is still conditionally homogeneous, then unifying Arabs, Persians, Indians, Chinese and others into Eastern civilization is at least wrong.
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 08: 49
          0
          Quote: karish
          And who do you attribute to Eastern civilization?

          China, Japan, Indonesia, India.
          Arabs, Iran, the republics of Central Asia are just the emerging civilization of the Middle East.
          The civilizations of Africa and America as such, to date, did not consist.
        3. Yura Yakovlev
          Yura Yakovlev 7 March 2018 20: 09
          +1
          ".... what about Africa?
          which of these are civilizations? "
          Africa would be harmful as a Jewish civilization. Excavations in Jerusalem showed that the first Jews were blacks, but something was keeping quiet about it. And the neighbors - Nubian blacks also wear Jewish haplogroups. Or is something wrong?
          1. karish
            karish 7 March 2018 20: 14
            +2
            Quote: Yura Yakovlev
            Africa would harm as a Jewish civilization

            What a twist.
            Quote: Yura Yakovlev
            Excavations in Jerusalem show that the first Jews were blacks, but something was keeping quiet about it

            Of course, blacks, and Jesus - Ukrainian.
            Quote: Yura Yakovlev
            And the neighbors - Nubian blacks also wear Jewish haplogroups. Or is something wrong?

            everything is fine
            1. Yura Yakovlev
              Yura Yakovlev 8 March 2018 09: 26
              +1
              Of course, you don’t like such a turn in your history, but it is precisely this circumstance that explains how the Jews became slaves to the Egyptians, especially when you consider that the Egyptians were that people (the clan Haplogroup Tutankhomon R1b1), which not only enslaved the Jews, but and by falsehood seized the west of Europe from the Rus and Slavs over the past three and a half thousand years. That's where
              the roots of fascism and anti-Semitism.
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 March 2018 08: 44
        +4
        the one who painted this collage posted in Russian civilization (conscience, measure) the rod of Mercury (trade, deception, taxes)
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 08: 57
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Rod of Mercury (trade, deception, taxes)

          This is caduceus, symbolizing the trinity of the World. The central core is a measure, two snakes crawling along it and their heads are on the same level, this is matter and information. Matter Converts As Information
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 16
            +6
            It’s even more abrupt than Fomenko-Nosovsky’s fiction and “living water” ...
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 09: 38
              0
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              and "living water" ...

              Living water is direct speech coming from the mouth. Dead water is a written word.
          2. tlauicol
            tlauicol 7 March 2018 09: 20
            +2
            who is it that you spat about this same material symbol? And from what language is caduceus translated? from Aryan, Old Slavic or Russian?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 09: 36
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              who is it that you spat about this same material symbol?

              You can interpret it in different ways. I explained to you what it means in the picture.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 42
                +6
                So after all, the well-known faplic pattern on the fence can be interpreted in different ways. Like an allegory of the scepter of power, for example. But will such an interpretation be correct?
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 7 March 2018 09: 53
                  0
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  But will such an interpretation be correct?

                  Excerpt from the book of General K.P. Petrov: "Secrets of the management of humanity."
                  "... From history books we know that in ancient Egypt, one of the gods was the god Hermes, who brought knowledge to Egypt. By the way, the word" hermeticism "- secret knowledge comes from here. He had the rod of Hermes, as a symbol of some authorities.
                  This rod is called "caduceus." Two snakes wrap around the rod (stick) of the rod, which ends with wings. The hand holding the wand can change the position of the wand.
                  From the point of view of trinity, this Hermes rod symbolizes all evolutionary processes taking place in the Universe as processes of the triad “matter - information - measure”. And in this single evolutionary process, they develop simultaneously:
                  - and material forms (they are tracked by materialistic science),
                  - and information support of these material forms (they are tracked by occult schools and some religions).
                  Ancient Egyptian priesthood divided this “simultaneity” into two parts, using the human ability to represent the image of any thing without having the thing in front of it. Now, dear readers, this is a book in front of you. But you can close your eyes and imagine anything in front of you: an apple, a cup of coffee, a loved one, etc. Their images are captured on the cells of your brain. We examined this in detail in the previous chapter. So, using this ability of a person to think in images, the ancient Egyptian priesthood “entrusted” science to study “matter”, and “ordered” religions and all “spiritual” directions to deal with “images” (ie information). It is this “simple solution” that has led humanity to a global systemic crisis.
                  Let us return to the rod of Hermes. What symbolism is visible in it:
                  1. Snakes creep forward only, which symbolizes the unidirectional gap.
                  2. There are two snakes, which symbolizes two mutually conditioned processes of evolutionary development:
                  - The process of evolution of material forms.
                  - The process of evolution of information modules of any material forms (in particular for people - the "soul").
                  3. The heads of snakes are on the same level. This symbolizes the fact that:
                  - The evolutionary process of matter cannot overtake (lag behind) the evolutionary process of spirit (information), but
                  - the evolutionary process of information cannot overtake (lag behind) the evolutionary process of matter.
                  4. The core that snakes entwine around and on which they crawl only forward, symbolizes the measure by which the process of evolutionary development proceeds ... "
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 03
                    +7
                    Quote: Boris55
                    books of General K.P. Petrov: "Secrets of the management of humanity."

                    Which by the way is included in the Federal List of Extremist Materials. Wonderful source. Especially when you consider that Petrov was the founder of the openly sectarian movement "KPE".
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 31
                      0
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Which by the way is included in the Federal List of Extremist Materials.

                      And for what - you know? To the passage that I cited - does not apply to the ban. It is forbidden to distribute the book. Quoting is not prohibited.
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Petrov was the founder of the openly sectarian movement "KPE".

                      Twenty-five again ... Can you define what a sect is and is not any party, by your definition, any citizen who thinks for three sectarians?
                      As regards Petrov and his attempts to create a party of KPI on the basis of the BER, I have a very negative attitude towards this activity of his and his followers. The goal of any party is to conceal the intentions of the concept.
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: Boris55
                        Twenty-five again ... Can you define what a sect is and is not any party, by your definition, any citizen who thinks for three sectarians?

                        I can:
                        A sect is an organization or a group of people who are locked in their interests (including cult ones), who do not coincide with the interests of society, are indifferent or contradict them.
                        Source: Krivelskaya N.V., Alekseevsky A. Religious security of Russia: terms and definitions. Moscow — Belgorod, 1997
                        If you read the materials of this "KPI", including the passage you quoted, you can easily notice the correspondence of the ideology of this group to the definition of a sect.
                      2. Boris55
                        Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        A sect is an organization or a group of people who are locked in their interests (including cult ones), who do not coincide with the interests of society, are indifferent or contradict them.

                        BER - freely distributed information available to anyone. BER is not an organization, it does not have any structure, nor any "group of persons", and therefore it cannot become self-contained.
                        BER is opposed to an enlightening Bible concept. BER against human-human exploitation.
                        KPI - was created by Petrov, on the basis of the BER, under the presidential election. Cracked off - hit the Rodnoverie ... I expressed my attitude to the parties above.


                        BER is not a structure and therefore cannot be a sect.
                        ps. The limit of answers to your posts has been exhausted. If anything, look for them at the very end of the forum.
                    2. andrew42
                      andrew42 7 March 2018 13: 20
                      0
                      Oh mommies! Extremists ?! What a nightmare! In our country, "extremists" have recorded almost the entire heritage of their ancestors (not to be confused with priests, but especially with Nikonians). And now what? This is let the "unknown fathers" of Putin drink their "Dead Water" in gallons. For example, I myself will figure out where extremism is and where not. In freedom of conscience, Duma writers are not a decree to me.
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 8 March 2018 05: 32
                        +3
                        The assessment of the materials gives the Court of the Russian Federation.
                        So, having thrown in extremist materials, it’s possible for 2-3 years later, then the plank beds are engaged in self-esteem by all available means without violating the institution’s internal routine.
      3. Alex_59
        Alex_59 7 March 2018 09: 15
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        The difference between civilizations is in their culture. Russian civilization has never been part of Western or Eastern civilization.

        From this picture I conclude that Russians are not interested in money and spirituality. It is interesting how then Orthodoxy (spirituality) and the merchants (loot, loot, and only loot!) Took so much of our history from us. The Stroganovs and the Demidovs alone are worth it, oh, these Western pests! Where they climbed, already to the Urals! Salvage with shovels rowing.
        Such pictures are pop culture. Everything with us, with Russians with materiality and spirituality is normal, only to get lost. And genetically - we are Caucasians. The science of separate "Russoids" did not come up - alas and ah. So in family, in family - in European, if you please, pass.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 09: 45
          0
          Quote: Alex_59
          It is interesting how then Orthodoxy (spirituality) and the merchants (loot, loot, and only loot!) Took so much of our history from us.

          And really - from where?
          Orthodoxy, glorifying the right, the right - “Ruling”, “Governing”, “That which rules” (Causal, Causal, Fiery world), one of the three components of the world. The rule is invisible, unlike Navi, which is sometimes visible, and sometimes creatures "from the other world" - Navi (Navi) appear or appear in Yav (waking).
          Rule - there is a single integral complex of laws of development of the Universe and all that exists, subject only to the One God.
          Damn for Russian people nor when it was not an end in itself.
          1. alebor
            alebor 7 March 2018 10: 14
            +4
            No need to fantasize, the Slavic word "Orthodoxy" is a translation, the Greek tracing is "orthodoxy".
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 36
              +1
              Quote: alebor
              No need to fantasize, the Slavic word "Orthodoxy" is a translation, the Greek tracing is "orthodoxy".

              Tell me how you translate the expression orthodox jews? laughing
              1. alebor
                alebor 7 March 2018 10: 48
                +1
                very simple: faithful, conservative.
                In Russian, the words Greek “Orthodox” and its Slavic translation “Orthodox” began to have different meanings. Orthodox - Orthodox, conservative. And the Orthodox is a representative of the eastern branch of Christianity.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 7 March 2018 11: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: alebor
                  very simple: faithful, conservative.

                  You understand that the expression "orthodox jews"you translated as"Orthodox Jews"? laughing
            2. andrew42
              andrew42 7 March 2018 13: 25
              +1
              It is necessary in general not to understand the Russian speech in order to sculpt it. Orthodoxy is the glorification of Law. Rule is the Vedic term, the world of the Gods. He has exactly the same relation to early Christianity as far as "what Jesus was silent about." To the current Christian denominations and sects, the concept is exactly the opposite.
              1. Yura Yakovlev
                Yura Yakovlev 8 March 2018 09: 42
                0
                I completely agree with you. The baptism of Russia took place in a single Christian faith. But the Russians did not agree with the canons of Christianization, so they made concessions to them, and 70 years after the baptism of Rus, the church split (divided) into Catholic and Orthodox. This separation was carried out through Novgorod Sophia Cathedral in 1050.
    3. co-creator
      co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 02
      +2
      Quote: Streletskos
      It would not be desirable for someone to make Russia exclusively Asia

      But can you just be Russia? Why do you need to be Asia or Europe? Maybe you think that the Slavs and the Russians did not have their own tradition and understanding of life?
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 March 2018 17: 25
        0
        Quotation: blooded man
        Quote: Streletskos
        It would not be desirable for someone to make Russia exclusively Asia

        But can you just be Russia? Why do you need to be Asia or Europe? Maybe you think that the Slavs and the Russians did not have their own tradition and understanding of life?

        Because, why can’t you just be Slavs, but necessarily Western Eastern or Southern
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 7 March 2018 20: 50
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Because, why can’t you just be Slavs, but necessarily Western Eastern or Southern

          Understood nothing .
    4. Pissarro
      Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 09
      0
      Russia is a European civilization and in order for the Russian to realize this it was necessary for Peter to break it through his knee, change clothes and shave his beard by force.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 7 March 2018 22: 21
        +1
        The sad thing is that many do not understand this.
        1. dSK
          dSK 8 March 2018 12: 08
          0
          Your main conclusion gentlemen "wizards" - down bully Orthodoxy, down bully Putin. You will not be able to turn Russia into "drevlyane", "glade", "Khozar" ... angry
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 8 March 2018 16: 34
            0
            Quote: dsk
            Your main conclusion, gentlemen, “wizards” - down with Orthodoxy, down with Putin. You will not be able to turn Russia into "drevlyane", "glade", "Khozar" ...

            Have you signed up for a gay parade? Without this, you are a barbarian and a retarded individual. laughing
  3. Nix1986
    Nix1986 7 March 2018 07: 16
    +7
    The development matrix code, after that already stopped reading hi
  4. apro
    apro 7 March 2018 07: 19
    +3
    The village people began to ... return to the roots .. where is the Neolithic? Civilization is implacable. And there are circumstances that it comes from Europe. Due to objective reasons.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 07: 45
      +6
      Dear apro, I agree with you. Such publications are reminiscent of the opus of Ukrainian nationalists about "protoucra" and "Cossack democracy." The only question is for what purpose the author seeks to inspire readers with a desire for archaic in a similar style.
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 7 March 2018 22: 24
      0
      What does civilization have to do with it? For example, in Russia, the new year was in the summer and there was its own chronology; how did it interfere with civilization? Why does China their own Chinese New Year not interfere with progress and civilization?
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 7 March 2018 07: 37
    +7
    ... So, the famous foreign artist Monsieur Woland performs with a session of black magic! Well, we all understand, ”Bengali smiled a wise smile,“ that she does not exist at all in the world and that she is nothing but superstition, but that maestro Woland has a high degree of mastery of the focus technique, which will be seen from the most interesting part, that is, exposing this technique, and since we are all as one for the technique and for exposing it, we ask Mr. Woland!
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 7 March 2018 10: 22
      +7
      ..So, the famous foreign artist Monsieur Woland performs with a session of black magic!

      We are in awe! wink laughing take out the storyteller A. Samsonov somebody! laughing
      1. Luga
        Luga 7 March 2018 12: 24
        +4
        Quote: Mikado
        take out the storyteller A. Samsonov somebody!

        "Spring, the time of schoolchildren and suicides ..." (c) A. Feklistov.
        The mischievous Clio nevertheless decided to visit Samsonov and made another act of defecation on his desk or where the muses were used to doing it, maybe directly into the inter-ear space ... smile
        I am pleased with today's increased exaltation of the author, it testifies to the overcrowding of his inner fire of inspiration, I hope the degree of further publications will only increase.
        Burn, Samsonov, do not spare yourself, the Russian matrix will not forget you and will call you to itself in a halo of white flame, into your own world of purity and light, the world of Vedic Orthodoxy, where angels in white robes will receive a tired winner and give him a sweet rest from the works of the righteous ... a course of injections.
        wassat laughing
        Seriously, you can’t stop him. While we will unsubscribe in the comments on his articles, he will sculpt these articles like a cow cakes, not caring either about the quality of publications or about the brains of those who read them.
        Oh, an idea.

        Attention, colleagues!
        I appeal to all sensible visitors to this resource.
        In order to limit the creative activity of the author, “Samsonov Alexander” I suggest that everyone who considers themselves to be the category of sane people not to publish more than one comment on the articles of this author and avoid polemics with his followers, trying to express their opinion in the most concise and accessible form. At the same time, I urge you to avoid direct insults and obscene expressions, as if they did not seem appropriate in this situation.
        Regards, Luga.
        Together we will make this world cleaner!
        laughing
        The choices inspired by the wrong ... laughing
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 7 March 2018 12: 51
          +4
          I appeal to all sensible visitors to this resource.
          In order to limit the creative activity of the author, Samsonov Alexander suggests that everyone who considers themselves to be the category of sane people should not publish more than one comment on the articles of this author and avoid polemics with his followers, trying to express their opinion in the most concise and accessible form.

          Michael, you are saying everything correctly. hi But for the sane. Do not forget that the site "fairy tales" writes not only Samsonov. hi And the crowd of cheers-patriots will already make the necessary clicks for such authors, while completely killing the forum as a platform for constructive discussion. Sorry for the harshness, but over the past three days it has inspired me so much even without elections that I’m tired of being silent about the situation. Tired. Here is a mistake, here is a mistake, there is a fairy tale. Yesterday’s pearl in an article about the Boomerang about BT - 30s freeway tanks for German autobahns (yes, cutter thoughts are published on the site!) - I just killed. The feeling that the main thing is to blurt out something louder and more patriotic. And the audience will be consistent with the quality of such an article. Respectfully to all odoforumchanam and to the editors of the sitehi
          1. Luga
            Luga 7 March 2018 14: 10
            +2
            Nikolai, my “programmatic speech” should not be taken as a call for real action. smile
            I am a sane person and I understand perfectly well that even within the framework of one resource and even one of its branches, it is impossible to resist the general decline in the cultural level and education, or rather, only through gross isolation, and this will entail stagnation, stagnation and extinction. VO is a commercial project, not an interest club, with all that it implies. request
            If I have the time and the corresponding mood, I’m fighting here, taking pleasure from it, this is the maximum that can be required from such an open resource. If you want more, but many, including me, want it, you need to look for other resources or create your own. But if you want to create a "club of interests", in which I would gladly invite you and some other users of this resource, you need to be aware that the contents of such a club will take you a lot of time every day (much more than, for example, fishing) without bringing material income. If someone goes for it, I will applaud such an ascetic, I myself am not ready for it yet.
            So we have fun, nothing else remains for us. smile Well, we’ll fight with stupidity and illiteracy, of course! soldier Chin up! hi
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 7 March 2018 14: 32
              +2
              Michael, I understand everything, I will subscribe to every word. Please accept my warm opinion of you! drinks
              So we have fun, nothing else remains for us. smile Well, we will fight with stupidity and illiteracy, certainly! soldier above your nose! hi

              for sure! Let's create a gang, we will run onto a branch of apologists for pseudo-history! fellow wink intelligently, without breaking the rules, but with taste and appeal! wink everything must be done beautifully! wink
              1. Luga
                Luga 7 March 2018 15: 33
                +1
                Quote: Mikado
                Let's create a gang, we will run onto a branch of apologists for pseudo-history!

                Excellent!
                In the gang, I propose to call Caliber and choose him as the chieftain. "Pan Ataman Shpakovsky" - it sounds! (Vyacheslav Olegovich, forgive me generously for mentioning in vain, but for the sake of a red word ...) There is also a candidate for the post of commander in chief of heavy (heaviest) artillery - we all know and respect him (Viktor Nikolayevich, my respect), but in general, with the selection of personnel and distribution of positions in the gang is better for you to do, Nikolai, then for our future I will be completely calm. I myself am ready to participate in this enterprise in any capacity at your discretion. smile hi
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 7 March 2018 15: 48
                  +2
                  In the gang, I propose to call Caliber and choose him as the chieftain. "Pan Ataman Shpakovsky" - it sounds! (Vyacheslav Olegovich, forgive me generously for mentioning in vain, but for the sake of a red word ...) There is also a candidate for the post of commander in chief of heavy (heaviest) artillery - we all know and respect him (Viktor Nikolaevich, my respect), but in general, with the selection of personnel and distribution of positions in the gang is better for you to do, Nikolai, then for our future I will be completely calm. I myself am ready to participate in this enterprise in any capacity at your discretion. smile hi

                  I will support! good Then you will be appointed chief of the historical headquarters, Kotische - mur-meow commissar, Anton - head of the engineering-miserable troops department, Marat - head of the information-penguin-Pope war unit, and Elena as a freelance psychologist. We’ll think about the rest. what we have to buy a hat for Caliber, elegant, with feathers ... fellow and what an Ataman without a hat! request
        2. Nikitin
          Nikitin 7 March 2018 13: 52
          +2
          You can agree with many, but it
          Quote: Luga
          At the same time, I urge you to avoid direct insults and obscene language,

          in no way consistent with this
          Quote: Luga
          The mischievous Clio nevertheless decided to visit Samsonov and made another act of defecation on his table or where the muses were used to doing it

          This is superfluous, IMHO hi
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 7 March 2018 14: 02
            +3
            legally this is not an insult. Although not for such comments rubbed. hi
          2. Luga
            Luga 7 March 2018 15: 12
            +3
            Quote: Nikitin-
            This is superfluous, IMHO

            The administration of the site, despite my repeated requests, did not enlighten me about the objective criteria for evaluating the insult of messages. So I am guided by the current legislation of the Russian Federation. Regarding the quoted - this is an estimated opinion relating to the work of the author, and not to his person, expressed in literary form. I admit that it sounds harsh, but I think that the way the author treats us as consumers of information approximately corresponds to my assessment of his work, so we are even.
  6. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 07: 43
    +12
    Enchanting nonsense. Gentlemen, I have a proposal: to raise “VO” funds for sedatives and a good history textbook for Mr. Samsonov. We’ll do a good deed, and the person clearly needs help.
    Russia was originally a separate self-sufficient civilization, with its own code-matrix of development.

    Well, what kind of "matrix codes" in the culture of Russia? Russia, as later Russia, was an organic part of pan-European civilization. With their cultural differences, the same as those of France, Sweden, Venice or Poland. European civilization, despite a number of common features, has never been a cultural monolith.
    social justice, concepts such as conscience, truth and love.

    In fact, these features are characteristic of any culture based on an undistorted Christian tradition.
    Tsarist (princely) power is sacred, as it will solve national problems, uniting Heaven (Kingdom of Heaven) and the people in the work of building the Kingdom of God on earth (city of Kitezh).

    But this is heresy in its purest form. For such words in pre-Petrine Rus, the author would be exiled to the monastery forever. And even a head would be cut down. So that heresy does not bother people.
    Western project, based on social injustice, the desire of a small group of "chosen" to enslave the whole of humanity.

    The clinic in its purest form. The “Western project” as such does not exist in nature, except, of course, the thinking of the author, who everywhere sees conspiracies and threats of enslavement.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 7 March 2018 08: 43
      +2
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Russia, as later Russia, was an organic part of pan-European civilization.

      And so the other "organic" part of civilization is trying so hard to destroy another? Not just fighting, as in Europe, but physically wiping out all civilization carriers from the face of the earth. If you are not aware of the Second World War, 20 million civilians were destroyed - the elderly, women and children.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      In fact, these features are characteristic of any culture based on an undistorted Christian tradition.

      So you let it slip - our culture is different. Written laws rule in the West, but not written ones in our country. It is not in the West that they deify the rich, but in our country they despise them. Etc. There can be no talk of any unity of civilizations.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      But this is pure heresy

      To deny that the oldest kind (prince) cared for his tribe, this means nothing at all to understand in the structure of life in Russia.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      The “Western project” as such does not exist in nature

      There is a West, but no project. Just a masterpiece.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 March 2018 09: 03
        +5
        Quote: Boris55

        There is a West, but no project. Just a masterpiece.

        it's 5+ laughing you have even surpassed Ranevskaya: "How is the word f..a no? F..a there, but no word?"
        Consequently, is there an eastern project? And southwest? and Central African for example?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 09: 29
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Consequently, is there an eastern project? And southwest? and Central African for example?

          There is. Surely heard the expression - the civilization of the East. Southwest - trying to lead Iran. Western civilization in every way prevents this - a competitor, however. Central African tried to create Gaddafi ...
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 14
        +6
        Quote: Boris55
        If you are not aware of the Second World War, 20 million civilians were destroyed - the elderly, women and children.

        If you do not know, then Nazism refers to European Christian culture in much the same way as a sumo wrestler - to ballet.
        Quote: Boris55
        Written laws rule in the West, but not written ones in our country. It is not in the West that they deify the rich, but in our country they despise them.

        “Unwritten laws” are criminal “concepts” or something? Well, you appreciate Russian culture ... In general, I would advise you to read a textbook on the history of the domestic state and law. Just so you know that from the beginning of Russian statehood, laws were expressed in written form. Russian truth, Pskov and Novgorod Judicial literacy, Stoglav, Judges of the Russian tsars, Articles of Peter the Great, Code of Laws of the Russian Empire — is this, “unwritten laws”?
        The rich are deified only by a culture based on the views of Protestant sectarians like Calvin. These heretics have nothing to do with European Christian culture.
        Quote: Boris55
        Deny that the oldest kind (prince) cared for his tribe

        Caring for subjects and chiliasm in the style of “building the kingdom of God on earth” are two different things. Various. Do you understand it or not?
        Quote: Boris55
        There is a West

        There is no single West. There is a conglomerate of countries united by common civilizational features. No more. Inside this conglomerate is full of contradictions.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 11
          0
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Just to let you know that since the beginning of Russian statehood, laws have been expressed in written form. Russian truth, Pskov and Novgorod Judicial literacy, Stoglav, Judges of the Russian tsars, Articles of Peter the Great, Code of Laws of the Russian Empire — is this, “unwritten laws”?

          All these laws were written by alien zapadents who usurped power in Russia thanks to the betrayal of the worming wise men.
          A jury does not judge by law, but by conscience. Since Westerners have no conscience, the largest distribution of jury trials is common there.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 25
            +4
            Quote: Boris55
            All these laws were written by the alien zapadents who usurped,

            Dear, in what reality do you live? This is Rurikovich then the "zapadentsy" ???
            Quote: Boris55
            A jury does not judge by law, but by conscience. Since Westerners have no conscience,

            Excuse me, where is the logic? A jury in the west is formed from Western people (there are no others). Moreover, despite the “lack of conscience” of these people, a court composed of them judges by conscience ???
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 12: 07
              0
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Dear, in what reality do you live? This is Rurikovich then the "zapadentsy" ???

              "... Russian Law - a collection of legal norms of Kievan Rus, dated to various years, starting with 1016 of the year. It is the main written source of Russian law. Connected with Yaroslav the Wise. It retained its importance until the XV-XVI centuries ... "
              Let me remind you. Christianity has been considered in our country since 6496 from the creation of the world or in approximately 988 A.D. uh ..
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 12: 13
                +3
                AND? What is the connection between the adoption of Christianity and Russian truth, based on the traditional norms of Russian law?
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 7 March 2018 12: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  AND? What is the connection between the adoption of Christianity and Russian truth

                  Christianity is an alien concept of the life of the device of Russia, reflected in all of the documents cited by you.
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 12: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Christianity is an alien concept of the life of the device of Russia, reflected in all of you cited

                    These are the words of a provocateur, or a person completely unfamiliar with the real history of Russia. It was Christianity, with its ideas of mercy, love for one's neighbor, mutual support and help in society, that organically fit the Slavic way of life.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 7 March 2018 15: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      It was Christianity, with its ideas of mercy, love for one's neighbor, mutual support and help in society, that organically fit the Slavic way of life.

                      And also the Indians of America, the natives of Australia, the inhabitants of Africa, etc. as well as residents of Libya and Syria laughing
                      We, unlike them, do not conquer the land and do not exterminate the peoples. We are developing new lands together with the natives and are doing our best to improve their living standards. This is one of our fundamental differences between us and them. By post below, you claim to have read the Bible. Do you know these quotes from her?
                      "So kill all the children of the males, and all the women who know the husband on the man’s bed, kill; and all the children of the women who did not know the man’s bed, keep them alive" Numbers 31: 17-18.
                      Etc. Well, very merciful ideas ... And after that, will you still claim that we are of the same blood?
                  2. Nikitin
                    Nikitin 7 March 2018 13: 53
                    +4
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Christianity is an alien concept of the life of the device of Russia,

                    Orthodoxy made Russia Russia
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 24
          0
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          There is no single West.

          Western civilization - This is the civilization of different countries, united by one (Biblical) concept.
          Russian civilization - This is a civilization of different nations, united by a single state, for the most part not accepting the Western concept, expressed in the exploitation of man by man.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 42
            +2
            Quote: Boris55

            Western civilization - This is the civilization of different countries, united by one (Biblical) concept.
            Russian civilization - This is a civilization of different nations, united by a single state, for the most part not accepting the Western concept, expressed in the exploitation of man by man.

            Sorry, but from the point of view of culturology and common sense, you are saying frank nonsense. Russian culture is an integral part of pan-European culture. As well as English, Swedish, Spanish or Greek.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 11: 26
              0
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              You speak frank delirium. Russian culture is an integral part of pan-European culture.

              Never ing, inc, etc. perversions will not be part of our culture!
              Whether a part of Western culture penetrates us is undoubtedly, but thank God that this phenomenon is not widespread and is perceived by the majority my fellow citizens only perversions.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 11: 57
                +3
                Quote: Boris55
                Never ing, inc, etc. perversions will not be part of our culture!

                They have never been part of either our or European culture. These perversions — the product of cultural Marxism — the social plague alien to Christian Europe.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 7 March 2018 12: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  alien to Christian Europe.

                  Have you read the Old Testament? laughing
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 13: 03
                    +3
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Have you read the Old Testament?


                    Yes. But you apparently, no. And the Bible was most likely seen only on a bookshelf. Like a history book. Otherwise, you would know that the New Testament is fundamental to the Christian faith. And the study of the foundations of faith in the course of catechesis begins with him, and the Old Testament is the historical background for the events of the New Testament. It reveals the backstory of a central event for Christians — the Coming, Gods death, and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes, the Old Testament contains examples of misconduct by different people. But for Christians, this is not a guide to action, but a warning, an example of what should NOT be done.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 7 March 2018 15: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      But for Christians, this is not a guide to action,

                      Как бы не так.
                      "... but the prophet of one or the dreamer must be put to death ..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5). “Thou shalt not leave spells alive” (Exodus 22:18).
                      And the bonfires of the Inquisition burned, destroying the local elite and imposing the new power ...
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 22: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: Boris55
                        And the bonfires of the Inquisition burned, destroying the local elite and imposing the new power ...

                        Are you kidding me? First, the Inquisition has never destroyed any local elites. Secondly, secular power burned at the stake.
                        And thirdly, the majority of those convicted by the Inquisitors remained alive:
                        The most famous anti-Inquisition data cited by Juan Antonio Llorente in the book "History of the Spanish Inquisition" for Spain in 1540-1700. According to his calculations, it turns out approximately 31 people burned in Spain, excluding its colonies. Sentenced to other types of punishment - 700. As you can see, even Llorente, who himself served as secretary in the Inquisition, but then broke up with her, admitted that the vast majority of sentences did not lead to execution.

                        http://ycnokoutellb.livejournal.com/9875.html
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 7 March 2018 11: 42
            +9
            There was a joke in the USSR:
            "Under capitalism, man exploits man,
            under socialism, the opposite is true " wink
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 11: 56
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              There was a joke in the USSR:
              "Under capitalism, a person exploits a person, but under socialism, the opposite"

              All isms from one slot.
              The capitalist system of the West was originally built on criminal capital. From Russia for centuries there has been public capital. The Old Believers still live on social capital, working for the benefit of the whole society, and not on a separate bourgeois.
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 7 March 2018 08: 51
      +2
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Well, what kind of "matrix codes" in the culture of Russia? Russia, as later Russia, was an organic part of pan-European civilization.

      Well, at least in some ways we agree with Mr. Lieutenant)))))
      Plus set)))
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 7 March 2018 10: 16
        +7
        Something like that hi
    3. Curious
      Curious 7 March 2018 09: 44
      +6
      Lieutenant! When such materials just appeared, I also thought that they were written by a person in the stage of exacerbation of TIR. However, now I am inclined to conclude that this person produces (possibly not one) in a perfectly sound mind. We just have an example of the law of supply and demand.
      Since there is a demand for such materials, there will always be someone who will satisfy this demand for a corresponding fee.
      Yes, we can discuss the “moral character” of authors who are ready to supply such a low-grade product. But the question is first of all to those who shape and support this demand.
      Then Dunning’s dictum comes to mind that “If noise and abuse make a profit, capital will contribute to both.” That’s where the root is. All of these various srachs that have filled the information space are just that noise and abuse. And make a profit. And the fact that brains are crippled - so who cares. The problems of the Indians to the sheriff are uninteresting.
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 7 March 2018 10: 00
        +2
        But the question is first of all to those who shape and support this demand.

        I suspect that the same people that form the demand for "Russian fiction" laughing
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 12
        +5
        Good afternoon, dear Curious! I agree with you, the author of these opuses is in a firm mind and full of mental health, but is inspired exclusively by the prospect of earning. It is a pity that he claims to be historic. The word is right, it would be better if he wrote fantasy in the Slavic style, with the brotherhoods of magi-sorcerers and war mammoths. With due talent, at least it would be interesting to read.
        1. Curious
          Curious 7 March 2018 10: 44
          +5
          The key phrase is with due talent. And if there is no talent, but is there an appetite?
          Legions of all kinds of "iksperds", "analysts", "bouts" and other riffraff, feeding on a myriad of all kinds of resources, turn megatons of informor onto the heads of the people. And while "people will haw", I'm afraid the process will only progress, and people will degrade accordingly.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 7 March 2018 13: 24
            +3
            I will support every word ... drinks
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 7 March 2018 23: 21
            +3
            Quote: Curious
            And while "people will haw", I'm afraid the process will only progress, and people will degrade accordingly.

            A degraded people "picks up" even more debilitated information and degrades further ...
            "Big dogs are bitten by large fleas, smaller dogs are bitten by smaller fleas, small dogs are bitten by small fleas and so on, to infinity ..." (c) (From the notes of the dog Fafik).
            Scary, however. So it is possible, with brains, and get off to mice.
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 7 March 2018 22: 25
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          It is a pity that he claims to be historic.

          He does not pretend to be historic (he mimics it), he wants money.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 7 March 2018 23: 24
            +2
            I agree completely. And with you, and with the Lieutenant. It's time to unite against fairy tales. Regardless of worldview.
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 8 March 2018 00: 10
              +4
              Quote: Mikado
              It's time to unite against fairy tales. Regardless of worldview.

              I agree. Only faintly imagine what can be done about it? For, cf @ h = traffic = SEO = resource popularity = advertising = affiliate = loot. sad Those. kill cp @ h, senseless and merciless - kill the resource. Dialectics, however!
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 8 March 2018 00: 59
                +3
                "if you cannot prevent a booze, you must lead it." We will become the main "patriots", we will jump and clap our hands on the "opinions" and "analytics". fellow uh, we’ll smash everyone on the wall, well .. without raising the sofa! Sarcasm, 80% of the comments are just that! negative
                Dear moderators! If you did not like my relatively truthful comment about what is happening on the site, ban me, but do not touch any of those with whom I communicate. soldier I'm ready. : what Tired. Leave your face - aim at the heart! (I. Murat before execution). Sincerely, the former police captain, general director with two higher, the author of 4 articles, N. Mikhailov soldier
    4. Pissarro
      Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 19
      +1
      The “Western project” as such does not exist in nature, except, of course, the thinking of the author, who everywhere sees conspiracies and threats of enslavement.


      They just don’t know about it in the West, they clearly identify themselves with the Western world, they are trying to impose a set of their civilizational principles, so-called values ​​everywhere, trying to pass them off as universal. And all sorts of conspiracies flowing into orange, green and other revolutions no. And the goal is not to enslave them and not rob the country under cultivation. Under the guise of bearing their civilization, the West has not robbed India and China for a hundred years, has not imposed enslaving treaties by force. There was nothing. All fabrications. Everyone lies)))
      1. Curious
        Curious 7 March 2018 18: 25
        +2
        Yes, everyone knows there. Even the location of the office of this project is known.

        Western Project CJSC, Republic of Belarus, Minsk, Independence Ave., 177. 3 section, 5th floor, office 59
        So they do not sleep.
  7. Olgovich
    Olgovich 7 March 2018 07: 49
    +7
    The turn to the West in Russia began when Boris Godunov and the first Romanovs, took shape as a priority project already at Princess Sophia and the government of Prince V. Golitsyn

    The author would read history of Russia and BEFORE them: Novgorod land (Novgorod. Izborsk, Beloozero), as Nestor the chronicler said, the monk of the Kiev-Pechersky monastery in "Where did the Russian land come from?" was the basis of the millennial Rusm-Russia.
    And she was THOUSANDS of threads connected with Europe.
    Kievan Rus was connected with Europe not only by trade, but also by many kindred ties ( Queen of France Anna Russian).
    So Russia was originally a great European, but at the same time Asian power.
    By virtue of this, Russia is a unique world and a unique civilization
    Peter's long overseas travels shaped his turn to the West.

    Take the best achievements of others - what is bad?
    Tsarist (princely) power is sacred, as it will solve national problems, uniting Heaven (Kingdom of Heaven) and the people in the work of building the Kingdom of God

    The author of "History of the Russian State" -read? No. An endless series of rivalries, murders of princes and relatives of each other, battles, etc. Like EVERYWHERE in the world, by the way.
    . Only over time, the national consciousness took shape
    The Romanovs and their entourage placed themselves above the people and the entire Russian civilization.

    When the Romanovs Russia has become Russia, the largest country in the world, with the fastest growing people, RUSSIAN. But AFTER them, as the author absolutely correctly writes:
    The "bloody Bolsheviks" led by Lenin and Stalin allegedly "killed the prosperous Russia of the Romanovs" and led the country into a "communist impasse."

    They torn away a lot of "Ukraine" from Russia, leaving it within the borders kingdom of Ivan the Terrible destroying centuries-old efforts and work of the Russian people for the construction of the state.
    Their result is a disaster of 91 years and the Russian Cross.
    On the territory and population of the RSFSR and the Russian Empire-compare-impossible-so bitter the result ....
    1. Artek
      Artek 7 March 2018 13: 20
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      Under the Romanovs, Russia became Russia, the largest country in the world, with the fastest growing people - RUSSIAN. But AFTER them, as the author absolutely correctly writes


      no, not so. So Roman historians write. Russia under the Romanovs ALWAYS reduced the number of the Russian population and ALWAYS reduced the Russian lands creating new peoples that arose on the Russian lands and stealing the Russian culture.
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 7 March 2018 13: 39
        +3
        Those. The Romanovs always reduced the number of the Russian population and Russian lands, and they (the people and the land) all grew and grew, well, what will you do ...
        1. Artek
          Artek 7 March 2018 13: 50
          0
          Quote: Gopnik
          Those. The Romanovs always reduced the number of the Russian population and Russian lands, and they (the people and the land) all grew and grew, well, what will you do ...


          you do not know the story of the gopnik. The Romanovs gave Alaska and the American lands of Oregon, the Romanovs gave Manchuria by signing the Nerchinsk Treaty, although most likely the time of the agreement is a lie, Nikolashka2 personally stopped the Russo-Japanese war, and Machjuria and Sakhalin were lost.
          You don’t know anything.
          1. Artek
            Artek 7 March 2018 14: 00
            0
            By the way, recently in VO in _history_ there was an article about how the Russians wanted to open a colony in Africa in Ethiopia. So this was not casual, before the collapse of the empire, Russians really lived in Africa and even Russians remembered it in Russia in the 19th century.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 7 March 2018 15: 40
            +1
            Quote: Artek
            The Romanovs surrendered Alaska and the American lands of Oregon

            This saved forces on the development of the Far East. And there were almost no Russians there. Otherwise there would be neither one nor the other. Correct solution.
            Quote: Artek
            have given away Manchuria

            Manchuria never was not Russian
            Quote: Artek
            Nikolashka2 personally stopped the Russo-Japanese war, and Machuria and Sakhalin were lost.

            Again Manchuria? lol
            GenderSakhalin lost, but kept the Far East, thanks to the Emperor-Has managed to build the Trans-Siberian Railway before the war!
            1. Artek
              Artek 7 March 2018 17: 04
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              This saved forces on the development of the Far East. And there were almost no Russians there. Otherwise there would be neither one nor the other. Correct solution.


              You, like Ksenia Sobchak, aren't a Crimean land-crusher in Crimea. Giving away your lands is a CRIME, which then, which now must be punished by law. Is it clear to you?

              Quote: Olgovich
              Manchuria has never been Russian


              how do you know? I can bring maps on which near Beijing the city is Red Mountain, and Albazin stood on the right bank of the Amur, and Amur was called Sokolin Aul, so if you don’t know, don’t tell.



              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 8 March 2018 07: 10
                +1
                Quote: Artek
                You, like Ksenia Sobchak, aren't a Crimean land-crusher in Crimea. Giving away your lands is a CRIME, which then, which now must be punished by law. Is it clear to you?

                They were NOT “their” lands: there were almost no Russians there. There was neither the strength of the fleet, nor the resources for development: they would either be simply taken away or at least something.
                Got it?
                Quote: Artek
                how do you know?

                I know the story. You are not.
                1. Artek
                  Artek 8 March 2018 11: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  They were NOT “their” lands: there were almost no Russians there. There was neither the strength of the fleet, nor the resources for development: they would either be simply taken away or at least something.


                  by the time of the sale of Alaska, 2.5 thousand Russians and 60000 local people lived in Alaska and the Aleutian Islands, many of whom were already Orthodox and spoke Russian. The profits of the Russo-American company were significant and far exceeded the miserable 7 miles / greens, by the way not received for Alaska.
                  The threat from Britain was far-fetched, for the entire time the Russian colony Alaska did not report attacks by the British fleet.
                  Moreover, this is official data from Muravyov-Amursky, and therefore the facts are false.
                  Muravyov -Amursky is the same governor-general, the one from whose supply Alaska was sold with American lands and the one that delimited the border with China on the Amur, i.e. actually gave Manchuria to China, despite the fact that Western countries at that time as a result of the Opium Wars, CHINA actually conquered. And tsarist Russia gave up its lands. This is a story of betrayal.
                  So the koloborotsionistov of that time, as it is very similar to the koloborotsionistov of that time. And they both lie.
            2. Artek
              Artek 7 March 2018 17: 06
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Paulsakhalin lost, but kept the Far East, thanks to the Emperor-managed to build the Trans-Siberian Railway before the war!


              reminds thanks to Gorbachev from grateful mankind.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 8 March 2018 07: 11
                0
                Quote: Artek
                reminds thanks to Gorbachev from grateful mankind.

                belay fool - here it reminds your comment.
      2. Nikitin
        Nikitin 7 March 2018 14: 03
        +1
        Quote: Artek
        no, not so. So Romanov historians write. Russia with the Romanovs ALWAYS reduced the number of the Russian population and ALWAYS reduced the Russian lands

        belay What is it like?!
        1. Artek
          Artek 7 March 2018 14: 13
          0
          Quote: Nikitin-
          Quote: Artek
          no, not so. So Romanov historians write. Russia with the Romanovs ALWAYS reduced the number of the Russian population and ALWAYS reduced the Russian lands

          belay What is it like?!

          Can you read? see above.
  8. Gloomy
    Gloomy 7 March 2018 08: 10
    +5
    The author, apparently, wants the Russian people to get on all fours and begin to bark, because European civilization (ancient philosophy, Christian ethics, the capitalist mode of production, the idea of ​​enlightenment, the natural rights and freedoms of man) is all foreign to the Russian person who, well-known business, Eurasian. He is closer to koumiss, the plague and the smell of horse sweat, right? It doesn’t give a damn that the Russians fought with Asia for almost their entire history (the Krymchaks raided only during the reign of Catherine II) and a turning point in favor of the Russians happened just when they started using European weapons, technologies, tactics and strategies against the Evraz.
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 7 March 2018 08: 59
      +1
      Isn't Crimea the Europe?
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 7 March 2018 09: 05
        +3
        Is the Khanate a European form of government?
      2. Gopnik
        Gopnik 7 March 2018 13: 02
        0
        it depends. Now yes.
    2. Pissarro
      Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 25
      0
      Russia went to the Pacific Ocean to Peter, using its own firearms in skirmishes with the Asians. By the way, Peter ransacked the Prut from the Turks in the same way that more than one Russian tsar did not rake off the European)))
  9. Gardamir
    Gardamir 7 March 2018 08: 20
    +4
    It seems to me that the author debunking some myths, plunges into others.
    We are all human people, all self-sufficient. But when they disliked someone in childhood, he tries to become like someone, or even surpass. So he says to himself, I'm better than that.
    That's the conversation that Russia, Europe or Asia from inferiority.
    See Europe from French Brest to Polish Bialystok less than Russia from Pskov to Perm. My fellow countryman Leonty Shamshurenkov invented a self-runaway stroller, long before all Europeans. And when you say Asia, which one do you mean? China, India, Afghanistan, Turkey?
    Maybe everything is easier? We are Russia! We are Russians!
  10. Wladwlad
    Wladwlad 7 March 2018 08: 27
    +3
    The problem is that all documentary sources were destroyed by the Romanovs and the Russian Orthodox Church.
    There was not any “church schism” - there was the DESTRUCTION of the Russian Faith represented by the Sun-worshipers, a Judeo-Christian abomination, which calls itself the Russian Orthodox Church.
    All the time of its existence, it destroys everything Russian and Orthodox.
    So the symbolism of the Sun-worshipers is still preserved on the old temples, and their wall paintings were banally cut down and not even updated.
    The Romanovs did not just “reformat” Holy Russia - they almost destroyed it.
    Just like the United States almost destroyed the USSR.
    However, the fate of all the "annihilators" is to sink into oblivion.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 08: 41
      +4
      Oh, adherents of the Fomenko sect in the discussion of profit. laughing
      Forgive me my sarcasm just by looking at a the replication of pseudohistorical myths could not help but hold on. Well, what a favor, sun worshipers, please tell me? In the history of the Church, not one victory over pagan cults has been forgotten — Church historians meticulously recorded these facts. And here they “destroyed” and there was no memory of it. It’s illogical.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 7 March 2018 10: 04
        0
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Oh, adherents of the Fomenko sect in the discussion of profit.

        Yes, you should pray for Fomenko with Nosov.
        They took the work of a Russian historian of the 19th century, and having perverted its essence with accuracy in terms of turnover, they gave it out as their own. The works of Nosov and Fomenko are aimed at transforming Russia into an eternal aggressor. It is not Europe who attacked Russia, and we are not her. According to their version, the Russians, the same Etruscans, conquered Rome, enslaved Europe, etc.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 44
          +1
          Quote: Boris55
          Yes, you should pray for Fomenko with Nosov.

          Stop being rude. I didn’t drink with you at Brudershaft to communicate with “you”. And the fraudulent essence of the opuses of these gentlemen is well known to me.
        2. Opera
          Opera 7 March 2018 11: 07
          +2
          According to their version, the Etruscans were not conquerors, but teachers. And certainly not enslavers.) You do not like the works of Nosovsky (and not Nosov, as you write) and Fomenko - your right! Just do not give out their speculation for them!
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 7 March 2018 11: 34
            0
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Stop being rude.

            Tabe pack.
            Quote: Oper
            Just do not give out their speculation for them!

            How perverted teachings of Nikolai Morozov. In a new way without Fomenko Alexander Pyzhikov.
            Doctor of Historical Sciences, professor of Moscow State Pedagogical University Alexander Pyzhikov in a special interview for "Conceptual TV" answers the questions raised by the audience of the channel after the release of the video dedicated to the "creativity" of the authors of the "New Chronology" and talks about his new books being prepared for publication.
            1. Opera
              Opera 7 March 2018 13: 09
              0
              And what does Pyzhov have to do with it?!?!))))))) They made fun. Better to quote Rybakov!
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 7 March 2018 15: 41
                0
                Quote: Oper
                And what does Pyzhov have to do with it?!?!))))))) They made fun. Better to quote Rybakov!

                He is his student and in my opinion not bad.
                1. Opera
                  Opera 7 March 2018 15: 57
                  0
                  I can’t even give marks to Rybakov’s students. I can only say that this cannot be true in the last resort!
            2. Artek
              Artek 7 March 2018 13: 35
              0
              Pyzhikov contradicts himself. Either his Fins are pseudoscientists, or he himself has fallen into anarchy, saying that the Tatrmongolskoye League is an invention of Polish scientists.



              How it's called? It is called that academic historical science in confusion and reels.
        3. Pissarro
          Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 30
          0
          the goal of any aggression makes sense. The goal of constant European centuries-old aggression is to rob us. Rome barbarians robbed for the same purpose. The constant attack of Russia on Europe is meaningless even then and now. It is pointless to spend resources that are already abundant in the war in order to join Russophobes
      2. Artek
        Artek 7 March 2018 13: 25
        +1
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        In the history of the Church, not a single victory over pagan cults was forgotten — Church historians meticulously recorded these facts. And here they “destroyed” and there was no memory of it. It’s illogical.


        but the fact of the Russian Inquisition is familiar to you? Everyone says that there was no Inquisition in Russia, but there is a book by Priest Grekulov- "The Orthodox Inquisition in Russia", where he writes about numerous cases of persecution by this Russian-Petrovsky church for another faith and belief.
        For some reason, this fact has always been hidden by our historiography.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 13: 45
          +1
          Quote: Artek
          Priest Grekulov- "The Orthodox Inquisition in Russia",

          Well, why lie so frankly? Mr. Grekulov — not a priest at all, but a banal Soviet propagandist of “scientific atheism”.
          https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Грекулов,_Ефим_Фё
          dorovich
          1. Artek
            Artek 7 March 2018 13: 52
            0
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Quote: Artek
            Priest Grekulov- "The Orthodox Inquisition in Russia",

            Well, why lie so frankly? Mr. Grekulov — not a priest at all, but a banal Soviet propagandist of “scientific atheism”.
            https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Грекулов,_Ефим_Фё
            dorovich

            the mistake came with the profession, but the fact itself remained immutable, the fact of the Inquisition was hiding in Russia, and this is already very far-reaching conclusions.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 14: 05
              +1
              This "historian" professionals smash to smithereens in their reviews. Therefore, I would not trust his theses on the "hidden Orthodox inquisition."
              1. Artek
                Artek 7 March 2018 14: 11
                0
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                This "historian" professionals smash to smithereens in their reviews. Therefore, I would not trust his theses on the "hidden Orthodox inquisition."

                this is familiar to us, everyone is being smashed to smithereens, for example, Lomonosov, or Valyanskiy, or Newton, or Morozov, the one who crosses the current flows that one.
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 14: 16
                  +2
                  In fact, they carry falsifiers. Liars. Those who juggle the facts. Like Mr. Grekulov.
                  1. Artek
                    Artek 7 March 2018 14: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    In fact, they carry falsifiers. Liars. Those who juggle the facts. Like Mr. Grekulov.

                    and let’s link how it was distributed.
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 22: 43
                      +1
                      Please:
                      In the book “The Orthodox Inquisition in Russia” you can find many quotes from Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Lenin. For example: “The idea of ​​God always lulled and dulled“ social feelings, ”wrote V. I. Lenin in a letter to A. M. Gorky in 1913,“ replacing the living with carrion, always being the idea of ​​slavery (the worst, hopeless slavery). Never has the idea of ​​God “connected the individual with society,” but always connected the oppressed classes with faith in the divinity of the oppressors. ” Yefim Grekulov reminds his readers that Lenin rejected Orthodox missionaries as "the latest inquisitors," "stranglers of religious freedom." You can find many other quotes on religion in general and Orthodoxy in particular. In scientific works, neutrality of judgment, impartiality, and ideological bias are recognized as ideal. Where is the neutrality and impartiality in the books of Yefim Grekulov? Is it possible to consider a person, in each chapter referring to the classics of Marxism-Leninism, unbiased in relation to Orthodoxy?

                      https://stavroskrest.ru/content/kriticheskij-anal
                      iz-knig-efima-grekulova-% C2% ABnravy-russkogo-duho
                      venstva% C2% BB-i-% C2% ABpravoslavnaya
                      1. Artek
                        Artek 7 March 2018 23: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Please:

                        Do you know that science rejects the idea of ​​God? And never relies on the divine essence in logical constructions? Exactly so, do you use the achievements of science in medicine, in technology, in chemistry? What do you reject the scientific approach to the problems of history?
                        But this is not the point. Grekulov relies not only on the classics of Marxism, but also on facts, and this is the most important thing.
                        The link page was not found.
        2. Pissarro
          Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 34
          0
          The Inquisition is not a fact, but a legal mechanism. According to one grandmother in Uryupinsk, in the dark green year, Pisanina Grekulova killed the priests of the rights of another charlatan-sorcerer, torturing him to death in the cold basement of the district policeman with the hands of this policeman has no relation to jurisprudence
          1. Artek
            Artek 7 March 2018 17: 39
            0
            Quote: Pissarro
            The Inquisition is not a fact, but a legal mechanism. According to one grandmother in Uryupinsk, in the dark green year, Pisanina Grekulova killed the priests of the rights of another charlatan-sorcerer, torturing him to death in the cold basement of the district policeman with the hands of this policeman has no relation to jurisprudence


            you are not stupid, please, have not read, so do not meddle in the conversation.
            1. Pissarro
              Pissarro 7 March 2018 23: 24
              +1
              This Khrushchev propagandist Grekulov dragged for a long time And for any discussion of religion. Only the very lazy did not read it. Typical clumsy order. And mouth on the general forum try not to shut up anyone, and yes you will not be sent)
  11. Alex_59
    Alex_59 7 March 2018 08: 47
    +5
    Stupidity. Again an attempt to come up with extra entities. Russia and Russians are purely Caucasian and, as a result, part of a large European civilization.
    I can’t understand why come up with a separate civilization? Why then only civilization? Come up with a separate look right away - homo russian sapiense. Let's prove that planet Earth is not the margin of the galaxy - we are a separate great galaxy with its own great matrix ...
    I do not understand why it is impossible to have a great culture and history being inside a large European civilization? There are all sorts of diverse original cultures - Germans, Spaniards, Anglo-Saxons, Hungarians, Norwegians, etc. They are not undermined by coming up with a personal civilization, why does it scratch so much here? Well, we are genetically - Europeans. Our language is close to European. Manners, culture are close. What is easier for you to master - Chinese characters or Latin? Well, still on the surface, why invent something that is not.
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 7 March 2018 09: 07
      +3
      Come up with a separate look right away - homo russian sapiense.

      For the author have already come up with: homo soveticus hi
    2. Pissarro
      Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 42
      0
      I do not understand why it is impossible to have a great culture and history being inside a large European civilization?


      It’s hard to be in the system if your basic settings contradict the system settings.

      Well, we are genetically - Europeans


      Ginetics has nothing to do with civilization at all. Obama is negro. But one hundred percent product of Western European civilization.
      Our language is close to European

      Turkish and Arabic can be no more difficult to learn Russian than English. Also Indo-European languages. And the type of Turks and Arabs are also Caucasian.
      I wonder why, as soon as it comes to European civilization, they immediately begin to measure skulls and study skin tones. Is civilization in this
    3. Net
      Net 7 March 2018 18: 22
      +1
      Excuse me, are you tired of stamping Western myths? What "European" civilization do you mean? Center of Europe - Germans? The enslaved Slavic tribes of Cherespenos and Lapars? So Hitler for a long time dealt with his Annenerbe in the historical roots of the Germans. Found - the ancient Slavic tribe kheRUSkov. I didn’t even bother to read the name. Or enslaved and catholicized Slavs - glades?
      And what about the Latin "Caucasians"? It is in Latin. Hint - Homo Caucasian. Homo Caucasian. Handsomely. And if you read in Russian? Kayuk to the Asians. Russians understand the meaning, Here, having captured the Vatican, the Kayukazians and totally destroy everything that is east of the Vatican. And to the west - they leaked to America, simultaneously destroying 140 million Indians.
      In "Europe" there has never been a "civilization", only "syphilization". Do not confuse the concept.
      Rather, Europe is the scum of the Eurasian peoples, which have strayed into an impudent flock on their microscopic peninsula of the west of Eurasia.
  12. andrewkor
    andrewkor 7 March 2018 08: 57
    0
    And I thought that Prokhanov’s article was very similar from the first lines. I share the opinion of the author?
  13. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 7 March 2018 09: 01
    0
    We have a lot of eastern mentality. This and admiration for the authorities and obedience to what is happening and unwillingness to change anything. The government should feel the Will of the people. And to express this will, it is necessary by all legal means, including rallies and demonstrations, strikes. Pocket unions nafig. Protection of rights in their own hands. And we are self-sufficient civilization. But this does not negate the fact that we must learn and adopt the best from others ..
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 7 March 2018 09: 09
      +4
      For 70 years, the power of Asian despotism, of course, the people had to adjust. Those who could not - emigrated / went to the sunny resorts of Siberia and Kazakhstan / were killed / killed.
    2. Pissarro
      Pissarro 7 March 2018 17: 45
      0
      Power must feel the will of the people. And to express this will, it is necessary by all legal means, including rallies and demonstrations, strikes

      Ukrainians express the fifth year. Their authorities somehow side
      trying to express this in Europe is difficult, gas and water cannons are guaranteed. And their power side
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 7 March 2018 18: 35
        +2
        Ukraine is the most Soviet of all Soviet republics, a living monument to Lenin and Dzhugashvili.
        1. Pissarro
          Pissarro 7 March 2018 23: 29
          +1
          Under Lenin and Dzhugashvili, it was customary to work hard from morning to night for a great purpose, and not to yell at the squares for years
  14. Altona
    Altona 7 March 2018 09: 07
    +3
    Quote: Vard
    In Holland and Germany, houses are still made of poop ... And this is European civilization ....

    ----------------------
    This, my friend, is called a "fachwerk", when a panel of dung and all land debris is fastened with diagonal, horizontal and vertical load-bearing rails and the frame thus becomes a decorative element of the house. Today, of course, modern fachtwerk is a heater, building concrete, finishing materials, but the original essence is adobe, dung, which is popularly called “filling”.

    Fachwerk style house.
  15. Anyone
    Anyone 7 March 2018 09: 11
    +3
    Of course, Russia and the Russians are a historically determined part of European civilization. We have the same cultural, historical and religious basis. Personally, I recognize myself as a bearer of the European mentality. And the same Europeans were my ancestors. And it doesn’t matter that I am Russian - it’s not about the ethnic group. I have a friend - a Tatar. Duc, he is even more European (in terms of mentality) than my other friend - Lithuanian. If the author of the article wants not to be reckoned with in European culture, this is his right. Even if he relates himself to reptilians from the planet Nibiru! But it is absurd to generalize and engage in historical falsification.
  16. Altona
    Altona 7 March 2018 09: 17
    0
    Quote: Alex_59
    Well, still on the surface, why invent something that is not.

    -----------------------------------
    Due to the large land resources, the Eastern European peoples later switched to a capitalist structure, preserving the social attributes inherent in the agrarian nature of the economy in the form of feudalism and postfeudalism. All kinds of land barons, gentry, landowners, dependent and semi-dependent peasants-plowmen. Britain was the first to engage in the transition to capitalism, driving the peasants out of the land and setting up pastures there for numerous sheep whose wool was needed for manufactories. Britain was simultaneously establishing world domination; for this, a fleet of modern ships and an army with modern weapons were needed, because savages had to be pacified by complete technological superiority. The territories of the states of modern Europe are small, which allows them to build a large infrastructure, share knowledge and new goods faster (in relation to that situation). As a result, wars broke out faster and claims to neighbors were constantly put forward. But Russia is big and such processes in it took place more slowly.
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 7 March 2018 09: 47
      +2
      Britain was the first to engage in the transition to capitalism,

      You know what's funny? In Britain, feudalism is still essentially: almost all the land belongs to the land aristocracy on the basis of ownership, peyzans rent it for farming.
      1. Anyone
        Anyone 7 March 2018 10: 13
        +2
        Yes, in the British Isles, hereditary landowners (large and small) formed hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And these latifunders run their family business, as you rightly noted, leasing land. But we must not forget that Great Britain was an empire over which "the sun never sets", so all the British, deprived of hereditary land at home, could find it in all the many British colonies. Actually, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand came about ... In these ex-colonies of Britain, if you look, many ordinary people have very large land plots in the most unexpected places for us, Russians, in the mountains, in water protection zones rivers, lakes, in national parks and reserves and so on. The reason is simple - when the continent was colonized, there were a lot of lands, but few colonists. Choose at least a house on Niagara Falls. We also have many beautiful natural places and water protection zones now owned. The domestic colonialists (crossed out) nouveau riche.
    2. Antares
      Antares 8 March 2018 17: 45
      0
      Quote: Altona
      Due to the large land resources, the Eastern European peoples later switched to a capitalist structure, preserving the social attributes inherent in the agrarian nature of the economy in the form of feudalism and postfeudalism. All kinds of land barons, gentry, landowners, dependent and semi-dependent farmers-plowmen

      maybe it's still in the climate?
      It was he who formed the formation and conditions, the presence / absence of land also affects, but to a lesser extent (since it adds conditions for extensive / intensive labor)
  17. Altona
    Altona 7 March 2018 10: 07
    0
    Quote: Cheerful
    You know what's funny? In Britain, feudalism is still essentially: almost all the land belongs to the land aristocracy on the basis of ownership, peyzans rent it for farming.

    --------------------------
    And the monarchy is preserved, that the most interesting, apparently just in case, then to trump its "sacredness." And in other states, republics have long been established. The British dominions, although formally detached from the mother country, left a clause on the supremacy of the British crown in the constitutions. Apparently, in order to act as a united front, they duplicated paragraph 5 of the NATO treaty.
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 7 March 2018 11: 05
      +2
      Therefore, it is quite logical in the struggle for their (!) Power that the European absolute (!) Monarchs (and monarchies) of the 18-19 centuries took up the formal restriction of their omnipotence: the establishment of a right system (right state) and the development of parliamentarism.
      In the course of the well-known historical processes in the 20th century, European monarchies perished in the struggle of each other. But one survivor of all realized the dream of European absolutism about the maximum possible completeness of her power. This is such a state of the political system when subjects are convinced that the monarch is fulfilling their will (or rather, the will of democracy). And at the same time, the state mechanism does not even take a step, and it is not capable of making it without the approval of the monarch.
      The ideological formula of absolute power: reigns, but does not rule.

      https://pioneer-lj.livejournal.com/1680495.html
  18. BAI
    BAI 7 March 2018 10: 19
    0
    The author uses terminology - download. I can’t even imagine what would happen if this article caught the eye of Peter 1.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 7 March 2018 12: 37
      +3
      It is just very easy to imagine.
      Peter acted quickly. There were no ships. Once - and the head flew off. am
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 8 March 2018 02: 54
        0
        Well, why, Peter could order not only to take his head down or hang it (both cases were revered for happiness), but also to quart, wheeled, or put on a stake. And I imagine that in this case, the case would end in a stake.
        1. Antares
          Antares 8 March 2018 17: 54
          0
          Quote: Nagan
          And I imagine that in this case, the case would end in a stake.

          if I had been on the road to Voronezh, then it would have ended with a birch .. but Peter also loved jesters, and he also valued the educated ones - so he would have taken him to the shipyard ... he would sculpt sketches and descriptions ..
          He would work for the glory of the superethnos. And I’d like to rebel, I’d be tied up with a chain, I would have given the gods ...
  19. Opera
    Opera 7 March 2018 10: 50
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    So Russia was originally a great European, but also an Asian power.
    By virtue of this, Russia is a unique world and a unique civilization

    I read the first line and already wanted to object to you!))) But I did not have time - I read the second.)
  20. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 10: 52
    0
    Boris55,
    Do you think that sects are not engaged in proselytism? Very naive.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 7 March 2018 11: 38
      0
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Boris55Do you think that sects are not engaged in proselytism? Very naive.

      KOB does not recruit anyone and do not seek to replenish its ranks by fooling others because there is no structure to want this.
      One of the 80 books on BER is called "A Fairly General Management Theory" - DOTA. Do you think people need to know at least the minimum principles for managing it? At least in order to vote in the elections not for the “beautiful face”, but for the candidate’s program? At least so that the next Chubais would not give us vouchers?
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 11: 53
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        Do you think people need to know at least the minimum principles for managing it?

        Real management principles — yes. Delusional conspiracy theories implicated in primitive racism — no.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 7 March 2018 12: 48
          0
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Real management principles — yes.

          Where, besides BER, are these principles familiar? The goal of the state is to hide this knowledge.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 13: 06
            +2
            Quote: Boris55
            Where, besides BER, are these principles familiar?


            You still do not understand me. This your “KOB” instead of real information contains a set of crazy ideas on the theory of conspiracy and anti-Semitism in the spirit of the Nazis. I am quite familiar with this “concept” in order to assert its delirium.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 7 March 2018 15: 55
              0
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              I am quite familiar with this “concept” in order to assert its delirium.

              Interesting. What book on BER did you read to make such statements?
              For reference. BER was developed by one of the Leningrad institutes on the instructions of the Central Committee of the CPSU to counter Western ideology. The task was completed by the end of the 80s, but since Humpback was already sitting in the Kremlin, it was not in demand. So that the work of a large team of scientists would not be in vain, it was decided to publish it for everyone. In 95, BER materials were presented in the Duma and recommended to it for distribution.
              What other "sect" passed parliamentary hearings and was approved?

              I never heard: Where, besides BER, is management information freely available?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 22: 49
                +3
                Quote: Boris55
                Interesting. What book on BER did you read to make such statements?

                I was on their site. I read their materials. And, forgive me, only the mentally ill can weave the priests of Amun, the Jews, the telegraphy and many other obscurantist topics.
                Quote: Boris55
                In 95, BER materials were presented in the Duma and recommended to it for distribution.
                What other "sect" passed parliamentary hearings and was approved?

                Uh ... Actually, in the Duma, as in the AP, these sectarians were sent to hell with their bullshit.
                Quote: Boris55
                Where, besides BER, is management information freely available?

                In works on sociology, political science, management theory. You at least read the works of Sorokin. If you master it, there are no “alien predictors” there.
  21. unignm
    unignm 7 March 2018 11: 00
    +2
    What kind of game?
  22. alebor
    alebor 7 March 2018 11: 00
    +2
    I would like to propose to A. Samsonov to deepen and expand his theory, giving it a more global scale. Namely: as you know, in the modern theory of the origin of man there are two competing directions. The first, most popular, is that all people have a single common ancestor, who came out of Africa some thousand years ago. The second is multi-regionalism, quite popular in modern China, that different races have different ancestors originating from different regions of the Earth. Why not A. Samsonov, with his enormous erudition and powerful flight of fantasy, try to prove that the first theory is a project of the Western masters trying to reformat the whole world to their own matrix, and the second theory is true and, most importantly, the superethnos of the Rus has separate anthropoid ancestors, the autochthonous inhabitants of the Central Russian Plain, having nothing to do with the sapiens of the West. What are the differences between us at the biological, species level, roughly the same as between wolves and jackals, horses and donkeys, falcons and kites ...
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 7 March 2018 11: 30
      +2
      You want to say that Mr. Samsonov National ball?
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 11: 54
        +3
        Judging by his phrases about "superethnos" and praise of Dzhugashvili, yes. National embassy in all fields.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 7 March 2018 12: 47
      +3
      "and the second theory is true and, most importantly, the superethnos of the Rus has separate anthropoid ancestors, the autochthonous inhabitants of the Central Russian Plain" '/////
      ---------
      Klesov - a famous hapo-geneticist - tried to create something like this. But it didn’t work out very well.
      Exits from Africa, whatever one may say genes - were.
      The ancestors of the Rus were Aryans from the Central Russian plains. But they managed to pretty walk back and forth across Asia and Europe. And it turned out that the Russians, Kyrgyz, Pashtuns
      (from Afghanistan) - close relatives. But the most annoying thing is that the coolest
      the arias turned out to be not Russians, but Poles, with whom the Russians ... have a difficult relationship.
      In general, disputes about who are the main ones on the central Russian plains are Kyrgyz or Poles belay - not
      still calming down.
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 7 March 2018 13: 00
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The ancestors of the Rus were Aryans from the Central Russian plains. But they managed to pretty walk back and forth across Asia and Europe. And it turned out that the Russians, Kyrgyz, Pashtuns


        They didn’t walk back and forth, and the ancestors of the Russians remained on the Russian Plain, and their relatives left and became the ancestors of the Pashtuns and Kyrgyz, and only along the male line.

        Quote: voyaka uh
        But the most annoying thing is that the coolest
        the arias turned out to be not Russians, but Poles, with whom the Russians ... have a difficult relationship.


        No more fun than the Russians. In general, Russians and Poles were very close.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 7 March 2018 13: 12
          +4
          Yes, I'm humorous about haplo-genetics. Gene tags exist,
          but it’s impossible to say ANYTHING about culture, language, development and meaning
          any people. Only about the movements of primitive and primitive people fleeing
          from all sorts of glaciers and droughts.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 7 March 2018 13: 41
            +2
            Well, yes, we can say about the history of human populations, man as a biological species. Everything else is spoken by other sciences.
      2. Gloomy
        Gloomy 7 March 2018 13: 02
        +1
        There is a theory according to which the Russians are colonists who feral at the frontier and assimilated Finno-Ugric tribes laughing

        However, where did you get the close-kinship ties of the Russians with the Kyrgyz and Pashtuns - I can’t imagine! The northeastern Slavs are rather monolithic in their genotype, and the Russians, in turn, are interspersed mainly of the North European peoples, unlike the Ukrainians with their southern impurities.
    3. Mikado
      Mikado 7 March 2018 14: 15
      +3
      that the superethnos of the Rus has separate anthropoid ancestors, the indigenous inhabitants of the Central Russian Plain

      already proven on the forum. Penguin feed drinks
  23. andrew42
    andrew42 7 March 2018 13: 33
    +5
    Russia is a civilization of the North. Not the East (Taoists), not the South (Indians, Arabs), and not the West (European rationalistic materialists). Anyone who wishes can assent to the East with a Chinese blank, or crawl on his knees in front of the West as a "slave." My opinion is that you just need to respect yourself, otherwise no one will respect you. With our then millennia-old heritage, clinging to remakes is rubbish and insanity. And Europe - these are our ancient settlements, "summer residents" fooled into the "Romans of the German nation", the descendants of the Aryans and Scythians do not face a hat in front of them. To borrow useful inventions, yes, you can. But not more.
  24. iouris
    iouris 7 March 2018 13: 44
    +3
    Ease of mind is uncommon! author -> author -> author doesn’t refer to anyone in a spiritual-spiritual way. So to evaluate the problems of the civilizational choice of Russia, it is possible only in the pub. Have fun gatherings!
  25. co-creator
    co-creator 7 March 2018 15: 34
    +1
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Quote: karish
    How do you know ?

    He deigned to study history according to sources, not opus hoaxes. That's why I know. hi

    Give the sources of these statements.
  26. Operator
    Operator 7 March 2018 16: 17
    +2
    Another Russophobic article from Samsonov.
  27. dgonni
    dgonni 7 March 2018 16: 24
    -1
    (In an ideal Russian project, people and power (state) are united. Conciliarity, fraternity and cooperation in solving national problems. Tsarist (princely) power is sacred, as they will solve national problems by uniting Heaven (Kingdom of Heaven) and the people in creating the Kingdom of God on land (city of Kitezh). As soon as the elite of Russia-Russia abandons these ideals, it begins to solve personal, narrow-group problems, wait for the Time of Troubles, as the answer of Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos to the injustice and managerial errors of the managerial stratum.) After reading this nonsense, I began to read with interest the rest :). the author probably doesn’t know that in the days of Russia, well, of Kiev !, the prince chose the veche, and if he didn’t suit him, they drove him with a bad broom. Well this is so momentik. In Novgorod veche decided EVERYTHING! Political and economic issues, prince? So he was a stupid defender hired by the people. Therefore, Peter the first didn’t bring anything, the second, what was destroyed, he tried to at least restore, the third, the Oskov kingdom at that time required reforms and it was an objective reality. The number of corpses of course rolls over :(, But it is. They paid tribute to the horde, but it was necessary to rise. Selyavyu, as the French say.
  28. Cat
    Cat 7 March 2018 20: 12
    +2
    Sad!
    It’s necessary not to “google”, but to open a textbook on the history of the state and law of Russia and insight will find you!
    What is the point of crushing water in a mortar, if there is no basic knowledge of the seventh grader in the head. Without a knowledge base of historical and legal disciplines, without studying basic scientific views and without reading works on the issue under discussion, it is very easy to fall into heresy from history. After all, the easiest way to believe in your exclusivity, a special way and destination. It is even easier to deliberately hang someone’s label as adversary and blame him for his troubles and misfortunes. At the same time, sofa thinkers sometimes for the first time crossed the border of Europe and Asia, not within Russian borders, but on the shores of the Bosporus and Dardanelles, or saw the east in Egypt, and the west in Germany or Greece.
    In connection with what I want to appeal to readers of VO if you do not want to look in the eyes of members of the forum “khomichki”, master the school curriculum of the history of the Fatherland and the triad of state-law disciplines of the university. After that, I think not only the need to “google” (when serfdom in Russia was introduced) will disappear, but it will also be possible to critically evaluate articles and comments, and then justify my conclusions!
    Regards, Your Cat!
  29. Revolver
    Revolver 8 March 2018 02: 43
    0
    This led to the civilizational and state disaster of 1917.

    Yes? And the fact that the disaster was funded by the Reichsmarks, how is it? Also the deepest contradictions of the matrix? And grain wagons sang at dead ends, and in St. Petersburg a lack of bread provoked hunger riots that ended in the February so-called revolution - is it like internal contradictions of the system or is it still sabotage? And those who traveled in a sealed train through Germany who finished off the country - who are they, romantics of the rrrevolution, or still agents of the German General Staff?
  30. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 8 March 2018 04: 19
    0
    "Of course, there were mistakes like the horrors of serfdom ..."
    Under serfdom, the horrors were the same as without it, including European ones. Where the master is more or less, where is the sadist. No difference. Slavery flourished in Europe (until the 20th century). About the United States-generally silent.
    So gentlemen, the liberals are ready to enslave (or even destroy) Russian citizens even now, hiding under good tasks, inventions like "global warming", overpopulation, green writing on their heads ...
  31. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 8 March 2018 14: 17
    0
    Well, I think it was all more complicated. Peter really wanted to invade Europe by repainting the Russians into Europeans. But at the same time, he just preserved the basic Russian values ​​(above all, the indivisibility of power) and even developed them! We are deceitfully told that it was with Peter that the "spoilage" of Russia began, while Westernization became irreversible under Catherine the 2nd ("graciously" covering up her "achievements" with the name of Peter); after this, the collapse of the Lzheromanovskaya (since Catherine herself had no relation to the dynasty) of the empire became inevitable.

    PS. And without quotes of Generalissimo Shein, is it possible? Or will we also quote the rank of Suvorov? And then how to tear a shirt on yourself for Russia, so please, but as for the first Russian generalissimo, so right away the quotation marks, as if about a kindergarten.
  32. co-creator
    co-creator 8 March 2018 15: 49
    0
    tlauicol,
    tlauicol,
    Quote: Tlauicol
    I figured it out ? belay maybe I'm writing comments for you?

    No, I write my own comments. Only about the "changed" you yourself invented.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 8 March 2018 16: 40
      0
      "To assess what happened, you just need to go to China or Japan. You can go to Turkey. Remains were also eliminated there by force, but no one changed the culture and code of the people. On the contrary, your own culture is the cornerstone of these countries and elites."
      - did you write this?
      In this regard, two questions: what is the "change the code of the people"? after Peter there was no Russian culture left?
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 8 March 2018 20: 21
        +2
        Quote: Tlauicol
        - did you write this?

        I of course. CHANGE and CHANGE these words have different meanings.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        In this regard, two questions: what is the "change the code of the people"? after Peter there was no Russian culture left?

        Look at Ukraine, there today, before our eyes, the code of an entire nation is changing.
        After Peter, a new Russian culture appeared that divided the people into Aboriginal and aristocracy. Each lived his own life. Some crawled on their belly in front of the nobles, and nobles crawled on their belly in front of the west. Periodically, the first tried to destroy the second and in the end did it. True, this hasn’t really changed anything. All intylicence and the “progressive” part of our society continue to crawl on their belly in front of the West, calling it a beautiful word - progress. Only under Stalin no one crawled, and then again.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 9 March 2018 05: 24
          0
          I actually PEOPLE CODE is interested, and not games in cases and consoles. What is this replacement crap, tell
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 9 March 2018 07: 38
            +1
            Quote: Tlauicol
            I actually PEOPLE CODE is interested, and not games in cases and consoles. What is this replacement crap, tell

            This is not a game, but ascribing to me what I did not say.
            I wrote look at Ukraine. People are forced to change their code.
            Are you from Ukraine or support Maidan? If yes, then I can’t explain anything to you, if not then everything should be clear to you and without explanation.
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 9 March 2018 08: 03
              0
              I am Russian
              What is a People Code? and how do we change it before our eyes Nuland, Poroshenko, how did Peter change him? Engaged in genetics or chipping?
  33. evgeny68
    evgeny68 8 March 2018 17: 46
    +3
    Most historians and ethnologists have long proved that there was no Mongol Tatar yoke in Russia. Russian princes received permission to reign in the horde, a kind of roof at that time. The Russian princes chose the Horde as opposed to the declared European crusade against the schismatics (Russians) and the Mongolotars. So it was an alliance between the Russians and the Horde, which more than once and twice sent their military detachments to help the Russian princes against the European knighthood, which tried to conquer the Russian principalities as they did with the Estonians and Livs in the Baltic. Do not forget that the whole history of Russia since Peter was written by the Germans under a clear order. And after several random women on the throne of Russia who defended the interests of the nobility and infringed on the interests of the Russian people and Russia as a whole, led to 1917.
    As a superethnos, Russians are a mixture of several ethnic groups, Eastern Slavs, Finno-Ugric peoples, Polovtsy, Tatars. Just like modern Greeks, this is a mixture of southern Slavs and Albanians, and modern Italians are most peasants from Syria who settled in Italy after the collapse of the Roman Empire. And northern Ukraine is Krivichi and Dregovic from the territory of modern Belarus, which settled these places after the collapse and descent of Kievan Rus.
    1. Luga
      Luga 8 March 2018 18: 58
      +4
      Quote: evgeny68
      Most historians and ethnologists have long proved that there was no Mongol Tatar yoke in Russia.

      Rather, they somewhat clarified and adjusted the content of the concept of "yoke." Igo is a period of vassal dependence of Russia on the Horde - a fragment of the Mongol Empire. After devastating military defeats from the Mongols in 1237 - 1241. The Russian princes recognized the sovereignty of the Mongol khans over themselves, as a result of which:
      a) they began to receive their inheritance lands from the hands of the khan in exchange for protection and patronage.
      b) they paid the khans the annual established "exit" (tribute, tax, call it what you want). The size of the output could vary, both up and down.
      c) participated in the military enterprises of the empire, then the Golden Horde on the orders of the khan.
      d) kept in their capital cities the yards of representatives of the khan’s administration, performing diplomatic and fiscal functions.
      This is called vassal dependence. The degree of this dependence changed, but its elements persisted until the second half of the 15th century. Historians traditionally call this the short and capacious concept of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke."
      If you missed something, excuse me, generously, a holiday ...
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 8 March 2018 20: 30
        +1
        Quote: Luga
        a) they began to receive their inheritance lands from the hands of the khan in exchange for protection and patronage.

        Well, of course, you present to the public the documents written by the metropolis from the khan to the prince correctly? oh yes I and those who require this ignoramus, so you will not show anything

        Quote: Luga
        b) they paid the khans the annual established "exit" (tribute, tax, call it what you want). The size of the output could vary, both up and down.

        Even Peter I paid tribute to the Crimean Tatars, plus redemption separately. Was the Russian state a vassal of the Krymchaks?
        Quote: Luga
        d) kept in their capital cities the yards of representatives of the khan’s administration, performing diplomatic and fiscal functions.

        For example where, the names of these governors and the documents that they wrote to the princes and vice versa. Naturally in the imperial language.

        Quote: Luga
        If you missed something, excuse me, generously, a holiday ...

        You missed your words confirm, no more. laughing
        1. Luga
          Luga 9 March 2018 00: 36
          0
          Quotation: blooded man
          You missed your words confirm, no more.

          You better try to refute them. Reasonedly, so that everyone understands that I am a real sectarian. And we'll see. laughing
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 9 March 2018 02: 14
            +1
            Quote: Luga
            You better try to refute them.

            Excuse me, how can I refute ordinary words that are not supported by anything? Well, at least refer to decency for some kind of document written by a representative of the khan to the prince and of course from the horde in the imperial language (as I understand Turkic) to the same prince where he is imprisoned. Well, at least a dozen labels or something like the Crimean.

            Quote: Luga
            so that everyone understands that I am a real sectarian

            So you are collecting a sect, not me. Divide posts, appoint inquisitors, recruit adherents wassat
            1. Luga
              Luga 9 March 2018 13: 01
              +2
              Quotation: blooded man
              Excuse me, how can I refute ordinary words that are not supported by anything?

              And you put forward your concept and justify it properly. So that everyone knows how it really was.
              Quotation: blooded man
              in imperial language (as I understand Turkic)

              in Uyghur, to be exact. Do you read Uigur?
              Quotation: blooded man
              So you are collecting a sect, not me.

              Dont be upset. Of course, it’s impossible to accept you into our sect, but maybe someone needs you too and sooner or later they will also call you somewhere ...
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 9 March 2018 17: 47
                +1
                Quote: Luga
                And you put forward your concept and justify it properly. So that everyone knows how it really was.

                No need to leave the conversation, I'm not your adept.
                Quote: Luga
                in Uyghur, to be exact. Do you read Uigur?

                You do not worry about me, but do the work.
                Quote: Luga
                Dont be upset. Of course, it’s impossible to accept you into our sect, but maybe someone needs you too and sooner or later they will also call you somewhere ...

                I am disappointed? God forbid, on the contrary, I’m very happy for you personally. More sects, more order.
      2. evgeny68
        evgeny68 9 March 2018 10: 32
        +2
        The greatness of Alexander Nevsky lies in the fact that he figured out the political situation of that time, chose a vassal agreement with the Horde as opposed to the invasion of Catholic Europe. The Horde did not require a change of faith, and the Catholic faith considered the Russians schismatic after the split of the Christian Church into Catholic and Orthodox. He knew what the crusaders did in the Baltic States with the conquered peoples and made the right historical choice. Otherwise, the fate of the Russians would be at best the same as that of Poland and the Czech Republic, whose rulers did not understand in time for the true purposes of Catholic Europe.
        Gumilev writes that the purpose of the Mongol invasion of Russia was not actually Russia, their main goal was the Polovtsy with whom the Horde waged a protracted war. They planned to go to them from the rear, i.e. through the territory of Russia, so most of the cities and fortresses in Russia survived, the Mongolotars did not have the goal of conquering Russia. Moreover, during this campaign of the Mongolotars, the princes did not stop their internecine wars. Many Russian cities suffered from ignorance of the laws of Iasi, killed the Mongol Tatar ambassadors, and then signed a sentence of destruction for themselves. Also, after the first arrow was fired, there was no turning back. It happened with Kozelsky, they killed the ambassadors and signed a sentence, the Mongol Tatars called such cities evil. There was no mercy, the neighboring principalities with Kozelsky knew the reasons, therefore, did not come to the rescue. Since that time, the immunity of ambassadors has gone thanks to the Mongol Tatars.
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 8 March 2018 21: 04
      +1
      Quote: evgeny68
      So it was an alliance between the Russians and the Horde, which more than once and twice sent their military detachments to help the Russian princes against the European knighthood, which tried to conquer the Russian principalities as they did with the Estonians and Livs in the Baltic.

      In addition, the horde ensured the safety of trade on the Volga trade route. After the conquest of Constantinople by the crusaders, the path from the Vikings to the Greeks ordered a long life. In fact, whoever received the label received the right to TRADE CARAVAN PASS along the Volga. Princes used the Tatars in the struggle for tables and against their neighbors-relatives. In the same Batyev campaign, historians find in chronicles that there were Russian princes in the horde on the side of the horde. Actually, therefore, the Russian princes never tried to fight against the Horde because the union with the strong neighbors of the nomads suited everyone. The same output was paid for services for the protection of merchants or for military services.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 9 March 2018 05: 40
        +1
        will you certainly not bring any imperial treaties about an alliance with the Horde? Probably in words agreed. And about the shortcuts, too, patsansky?
        and why pay all the time for military services? 300 year old condotta?
        The same Donskoy, who defeated the rebellious Mamai without the help of the Horde, did a good deed, and Tokhtamysh burned Moscow. Obsessive advertising of military services on his part?
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 9 March 2018 07: 53
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          will you certainly not bring any imperial treaties about an alliance with the Horde? Probably in words agreed. And about the shortcuts, too, patsansky?

          Well, you do not present labels for reigning, do not present imperial documents that the khans sent to their Russian vassals. Did you also agree on words? And on the labels in a patsansky way. Oh yes there are as many as 2 labels that really don’t understand where they came from, and many consider it a fake. As many as two in 300 years.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          and why pay all the time for military services? 300 year old condotta?

          Well, why pay if it is profitable. Every year, kings were sent to the Don Cossacks by money, gunpowder, lead, and all this was taken for granted. Here you wonder why you please find out?
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The same Donskoy, who defeated the rebellious Mamai without the help of the Horde, did a good deed, and Tokhtamysh burned Moscow. Obsessive advertising of military services on his part?

          As soon as you find Kulikovo Field, we will immediately discuss this issue with you. No body, no business.
          They could burn Moscow precisely because they did not pay. Zaporizhzhya Cossacks why did they fight? They wanted to increase the register and sit on state grubs, but those presses refused them. Here with grudge hanged the lords and the Jews at the same time. The pans, seeing such a disgrace, agreed to increase the registry and put the Cossacks on allowance.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 9 March 2018 08: 19
            +1
            It's just that you, my dear man, require information, a protocol, fingerprints from opponents .. Two labels do not count, the annals lie. And what on your part besides words? Witnesses, minutes of the meeting? Nice position. At the same time, write about the labels yourself. Do you have an alliance agreement with the Horde on hand?
            Horde - the register army of Moscow Russia, etc. principalities?

            Good Union (weak with strong), in which the strong reserves the right to burn and kill and! plant an acceptable ruler! Why not call this addiction Igo, sniff, bondage? It is clear that it is not occupation, but also not the raids of the Crimeans, certainly - they did not plant kings.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 9 March 2018 18: 26
              +1
              Quote: Tlauicol
              It's just that you, my dear man, require information, a protocol, fingerprints from opponents .. Two labels do not count, the annals lie.

              I demand no more documents. Why are there annals, decrees and various notes of princes to their boyars and soldiers are, but there are no elementary labels. Why, after such a powerful empire and states like the Golden Horde, are there no internal documents? But it is full of records from the Arabs of the Uigurs, Chinese, Rusich who were never in the horde at all and wrote everything from someone’s words?
              Two labels do not count because there must be TENS, two moguls can easily be fakes. Here are Crimean labels full for example. Chronicles are letters written by people and yes people lie. They express on paper their thoughts and their personal attitude to the situation, as well as write what they are told and what is beneficial to write.

              Moreover, we simply may not understand what contemporaries wrote.
              Here is an example from today. Donbass. One part of the publicists believes that Putin has the right policy and everything is going the usual way, and at the same time, the other part of the publicists write about everything they have handed over, they all disappeared, we go to the United States, etc. If you imagine that tomorrow all the documents, agreements, the Minsk Protocol will disappear and there will be only one journalism in the style of "everything is lost", what conclusions will our descendants draw?
              Quote: Tlauicol
              . And what on your part besides words?

              Analysis of the situation, comparisons with other empires and the relationship between the vassal overlord, the colony is the metropolis. Since there are no documents, then another point of view has rights no less than the official point of view.

              Quote: Tlauicol
              At the same time, write about the labels yourself. Do you have an alliance agreement with the Horde on hand?

              Of course not . You do not and I do not. But I have Crimean labels.

              Quote: Tlauicol
              Horde - the register army of Moscow Russia, etc. principalities?

              Of course not.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Good Union (weak with strong), in which the strong reserves the right to burn and kill and! plant an acceptable ruler! Why not call this addiction Igo, sniff, bondage? It’s clear that it’s not occupation, but also not the raids of the Crimeans, for sure - they didn’t plant kings

              But the horde is stronger than the Russian principalities, well, except for a good army, and then only against each principality separately? What happened after the Horde? Cities, architecture, scientists, chronicles? What is the legacy? What is the strength in, brother? Russia made excellent use of the horde, received a reliable partner from Western expansion, a safe trade route, united all the Russian principalities into one state, accumulated decent capital, and increased the population of Russia. At the same time, the horde constantly squabbled among themselves, the population decreased, broke up into several khanates, and was conquered by Russia. So who is stronger here?
              Can you prove that the Horde put one of the princes to reign? The Moscow prince calmly conquered the neighboring principality and removed the princes whom the Horde allegedly planted on the table and what was the answer from a stronger horde? Yes, there was no answer at all.
              Therefore, there was no vassal-lord dependence. You need to call everything by their proper names, and not invent left-wing terms, then everything will fall into place.
              Crimeans did not plant kings, but they sent labels and neighbors accepted these labels.
        2. evgeny68
          evgeny68 9 March 2018 10: 37
          0
          Carefully study the history, preferably from various sources, that you write complete nonsense of a person who read Wikipedia. One does not have to expose one’s ignorance to public opinion, even anonymously on the Internet.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 9 March 2018 12: 32
            0
            Quote: evgeny68
            Wikipedia. You don’t have to expose your ignorance.
            1. evgeny68
              evgeny68 11 March 2018 22: 11
              0
              If my ignorance is in a typo, I am satisfied. What can you write on the topic, dreamer. I read your historical passages and wonder. Give links to primary sources or to famous historians, publicists, ethnologists, at least something other than your conclusions.
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 9 March 2018 06: 10
        0
        a pretty such "union" is obtained: they, receiving annual tribute, protect trade (from themselves, this is racketeering) and provide military services. If the prince does not need military services, then his principality comes and smashes. By the way, who will reign, also decide the allies.
        And why not levy a tax on the merchants themselves? it’s simpler, and the figure will always be more accurate (the prince will surely launch a hand in the moshna, and he will conceal the number of real and movable property)
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 9 March 2018 08: 22
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          a pretty such "union" is obtained: they, receiving annual tribute, protect trade (from themselves, this is racketeering) and provide military services.

          And what surprises you in this? There is no guard. no trade. The protection of merchants to the borders of Russia could only provide a horde.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          If the prince does not need military services, then his principality comes and smashes.

          If not paying.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          By the way, who will reign, also decide the allies.

          Their military strength decides. In the same way that the guard decided during the palace coups or the Cossacks in 1612. Whoever seeks the support of a khan, consider a couple of tumens to your squad, and at the same time your merchants will carry goods under protection, where there will be money for inviting people to the principality, etc.
          In general, you can see what the label was like on the example of Crimean labels. There, in fact, the khan notified, for example, the Moscow sovereign that he was such a great one, joins the khanate, lists what he owns, confirmed the princely title and the right to the throne of the Moscow prince and how much money should be given to him. The Horde label was about the same for sure, since the Crimeans are a fragment of the Golden Horde.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          And why not levy a tax on the merchants themselves? it’s simpler, and the figure will always be more accurate (the prince will surely launch a hand in the moshna, and he will conceal the number of real and movable property)

          Because merchants are subjects of Russian princes and merchants in any case pay them. Because today the merchant will trade, and tomorrow there is no, and therefore there is no money. Here is a constant income regardless of the activity of the merchants.
          You know, only on paper can you calculate every year all movable and immovable property at the vassal and at home too. Even in our time, this is not easy, but then not at all real. The maximum is only in the city and it is doubtful. I don’t understand why you perceive everything written on paper as truth. Actually, it was really possible only to assign an exit, for example, for 10 years, then come to assess the prince's income and again appoint an exit for the next 10 years.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 9 March 2018 09: 14
            +1
            and this whole system of relationships that you described cannot be called an IGO? Therefore, he, IGA, was not? Yes, even call a pot a dependency. Just do not like the word?
            collaboration - that’s it (but the yoke is better)

            and once again, the Crimean Khan could at least a hundred times declare his rights to the throne, but he didn’t plant the great princes and kings anyway, and they didn’t go to Bakhchisarai
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 9 March 2018 19: 14
              +1
              Quote: Tlauicol
              and this whole system of relationships that you described cannot be called an IGO?

              The definition of IGOs ​​is, for example, on Wikipedia. The relationship between the horde and Russia does not fall within this definition.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Yes, even call a pot a dependency. Just do not like the word?

              Why a pot? You need to call everything by their proper names. Change the definition of the word IGO and no questions.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              collaboration - that’s it (but the yoke is better)

              Well, the princes did not suspect this. They did not know that it turned out that the Mongols planted them for reign, cut out dozens of cities, that they were practically under occupation. Nobody told them about this. People went about their usual business, traded, fought, killed and deposed their relatives by taking away their tables. For medieval people, hiring a squad from the side is the most common thing and the same Türks are no worse than the Swedes whom they hired during the turmoil of 1612. The Türkic Tatars calmly settled in their principalities together with the squads, allocating land for this purpose. They did not know that because of this, Russia would lag behind in development from the West and that slave psychology would be instilled into the people. In the West, democracy is everywhere, and in Russia and the Horde despotism. They didn’t have time to read the annals and historians.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              and once again, the Crimean Khan could at least a hundred times declare his rights to the throne, but he didn’t plant the great princes and kings anyway, and they didn’t go to Bakhchisarai

              Kings took these shortcuts understand? He didn’t send ambassadors with paper where they confirmed his right to the kingdom. Why go to Bakhchisarai? Personally, a ransom for the Russians and wake? There are ambassadors for this.
              In the Horde, they traveled with some serious questions to decide how today Putin goes to other presidents and vice versa.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 10 March 2018 05: 55
                +1
                Well, they did not suspect "what is good, what is bad" - let's call this phenomenon Naive Collaborationism, what will change?
                With "the Moscow prince calmly conquered the neighboring principality and removed the princes whom the Horde supposedly planted on the table, and what was the answer from the stronger horde? There was no answer at all.
                Therefore, there was no vassal-lord dependence. We need to call everything by their proper names, and not invent left-wing terms, then everything will fall into place. "-
                what kind of prince is so cool? until Tamerlan moved with a bulldozer ZO (and this piece of the former empire did not crumble for another half dozen uluses, hordes and khanates) there were no greyhounds request
                With "Well, the princes did not suspect about this. They did not know that it turned out that the Mongols planted them for reign, cut out dozens of cities, that they were practically under occupation."
                - yah ? Well, they could not know about the occupation, because and she was not, and the rest?
                With "In the Horde, they traveled with some serious questions to decide how today Putin goes to other presidents and vice versa"
                -
                yeah, under pain of death, drink koumiss. they didn’t always come back. They didn’t send ambassadors with paper, since the ax would be provided with a head

                by sabzh: what is PEOPLE CODE, and how to change it?
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 10 March 2018 12: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  let's call this phenomenon Naive Collaborationism, what will change?

                  Write the concept of this definition and we will see whether it fits or not.
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  what kind of prince is so cool? until Tamerlan moved with a bulldozer ZO (and this piece of the former empire did not crumble for another half dozen uluses, hordes and khanates) there were no greyhounds

                  Alas, it does not work out. The first campaigns of Tamerlane on the Golden Horde is 1391. The accession of neighboring principalities began even under Ivan Kalita from 1301.
                  Moreover, judging by the dates, it was in response to the campaign of Tamerlane that Moscow joined the vast frontier principality of Nizhny Novgorod in 1393, and the second campaign of Tamerlane was 1395.
                  In general, the end of the IGO is 1472-1480, that is, after almost 100 years.
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  yeah, under pain of death, drink koumiss. they didn’t always come back. They didn’t send ambassadors with paper, since the ax would be provided with a head

                  These are nothing more than annalistic fables not confirmed by anything else. Judging by the chronicles, they did not drink drunk there with the khans, but it is difficult to call this a threat of death.

                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  by sabzh: what is PEOPLE CODE, and how to change it?

                  I wrote to you, before our eyes, the code of Ukrainians is changing.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 10 March 2018 14: 04
                    +1
                    you’ve already written a definition: they say "the princes did not suspect this. They didn’t know that it turned out that the Mongols planted them for reign, cut out dozens of cities", etc.
                    in 1301 Kalita was still snotty. his father began to collect what is badly lying (including after the pogrom of Zoy Nogai). But the right to “divide and rule” remained with the Tatars: having wished, they transferred the lands to the Tver princes. And then they threw a bone at one or the other for their faithful service (Kalita was a good henchman: he appeared on the first call and sang sweetly and collected taxes and “wasting all the Russian land” - this is not a problem for him if his comrades ask ) The future hero and holy DD also ran to the Horde (to get drunk?) For labels, and left his heir as a hostage hostage (also to get drunk? Or in the summer camp? Poor Vasily wanted to look at his dad when he received the owner of the table). 25 years of the Great Memorial nearly ruined him, but Tokhtamysh quickly recalled his debts. Yes, and Novgorod Prince. taken away from Moscow as soon as Tamerlane's bulldozer turned in the other direction. And the fragments of fragments of once great strength were able to do this. Almost another hundred years had to pump units.
                    -------
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    by sabzh: what is PEOPLE CODE, and how to change it?
                    I wrote to you, before our eyes, the code of Ukrainians is changing

                    not much
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 10 March 2018 16: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      you’ve already written a definition: they say "the princes did not suspect this. They didn’t know that it turned out that the Mongols planted them for reign, cut out dozens of cities", etc.

                      So it was sarcasm. I'm waiting for the definition of the term from you.
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      in 1301 Kalita was still snotty. his father began to collect what is badly lying (including after the pogrom of Zoy Nogai).

                      Of course, his father, beguiled a little wassat What difference was bad or good, the fact that it happened during the Horde. This is directly related to finances.
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      But the right to “divide and rule” remained with the Tatars: having wished, they transferred the lands to the Tver princes.

                      For example, what?
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      And then they threw a bone at one or the other for their faithful service (Kalita was a good henchman: he appeared on the first call and sang sweetly and collected taxes and “wasting all the Russian land” - this is not a problem for him if his comrades ask )

                      That is, the Horde helped its vassals to collect land and build strong principalities? Can I find out why?
                      Of course a henchman, like Putin in the 2000s. He did everything for the dear American owners, he removed the military bases, he destroyed the industry, he supplied the resources, he kept money in the USA, he jumped on the first call to the G-8. In short, he sold the henchman Rasey, for him this is not a problem once the comrades asked.
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      The future hero and holy DD also ran to the Horde (to get drunk?) For labels, and left his heir as a hostage hostage (also to get drunk? Or in the summer camp? Poor Vasily wanted to look at his dad when he received the owner of the table).

                      Well, once the annals are written, then this is the true truth. Stalin personally shot, honestly, honestly, respected people wrote.
                      It remains just a little, to find confirmation of this in the documents of the horde. Oh ladies, they were not savages and documentation. So sorrow.
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      . 25 years of the Great Memorial nearly ruined him, but Tokhtamysh quickly recalled his debts.

                      And what did Tokhtamysh do? Really how Krymchaks burned Moscow?
                      Find the Kulikovo field to begin with and then discuss what and how. Dur.i.kami (this is not for you personally) pretend that they say it does not matter where it was and how many people were there, in the annals they exaggerated and all that. But when you suddenly need a chronicle unconditional truth word for word.

                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Yes, and Novgorod Prince. taken away from Moscow as soon as Tamerlane's bulldozer turned in the other direction. And the fragments of fragments of once great strength were able to do this. Almost another hundred years had to pump units.

                      What was taken from Moscow and when?
                      Everything is true for another hundred years (in fact, about 70), the horde performed its main functions - it ensured the safety of the Volga trade route and could speak on behalf of all nomads. Already in the middle of the 15th century, in essence, a single horde did not exist and the “exit” was paid for another 30 years, in fact, according to the old “friendship”. When Moscow finally realized that the Horde could no longer fulfill its obligations, they were sent by the forest.
                      Well, about pumping, did RI only at the end of the 18th century manage to conquer Crimea, apparently pumped for a long time to the level of Krymchaks, or did something else interfere?
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      not much

                      Where is thicker? If you do not see this, then it is impossible to explain to you what the code of the people is.
                      The Germans in Germany under Hitler utterly did not understand what was wrong with Nazism and why it was bad to kill the untimely. Well, they did not see anything unusual in this, for them it was normal.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 10 March 2018 18: 42
                        +1
                        "naive collaboration" is also sarcasm, incl. let the ygo be. Your "Code of the people" does not have a definition at all, EYAVPP?
                        What kind of land? e.g. Pereslavl Zalessky. Those. "they called to the carpet" and said: "will you give this property to Tversky? swallowed it? well, good riddance, and don’t forget about the tribute!" Nizhny Novgorod Prince a hundred years later, Basil bought in the Horde, and not just captured. Plus Moore and Mescher. Well, I went to the carpet. The label is natural. True, the Horde heirs sometimes, having changed their minds, alienated NN in favor of other princes. To new promises.
                        It turns out whether Moscow will join the land or not for a long time depended on the crumbling Horde, and the mood of the changing khans, who loved gold more than iron.
                        Yes, Tokhtamysh burned Moscow, and did not forget about debt - is news for you?
                        I do not believe in the plot of the chroniclers, i.e. They worked for different customers. There are no business documents left, yes, this is a problem, but you also do not confirm your version with any documents. And this is even less than annalistic sources.
                        Regarding the Crimea and pumping units - in general, then. For 300 years, Russia-Russia also did not beat the buck: constant wars and riots. She didn’t deal with Crimea alone.
                        (C) "When Moscow finally understood that the Horde could no longer fulfill its obligations they were sent by the forest" -
                        Are you talking about the protection of the Volga way? From whom, from Krasnov or from Wrangel? There were no longer any threats to the Moscow State, so they were sent. True, not very decisively, just pay less steel (you never know how it turns out)
                        In the meantime, the Horde were stronger, they decided what land Moscow will buy, which not, and which to select and pass it to competitors. And who will get the table. And if competitors, e.g. Tver, borzoi, then they were satisfied with the reduction of staff. Muscovites were more cunning and unprincipled, and better guessed the mood of sworn friends, waiting 200 years until the heirs of Genghis Khan cut each other. And even after the Ugrians waited and paid slowly, thanks the Crimean Khan cut them
  34. Sasha333
    Sasha333 9 March 2018 09: 46
    +2
    Russia has never been part of Europe. Europe was created as a counterweight to Russia. This is the same as asking us to join NATO. The border used to go across Poland (approximately, a lot has already changed), and then did it along the Urals, and then again it is not clear on what basis is it necessary to divide a whole piece of land into two parts of the world? See ancient maps and then many questions will disappear. America, Antarctica, Africa, Australia, Asia. All parts of the world begin with the letter A and then Europe. Europe has never given us Slavs knowledge. Yes, for a short period we lagged behind thanks to Judo-Christianity and the German kings. Then dsk writes something about God, then about the Lord, have you decided who is nice to you? I am God, our God is ROD. The Lord is Yahweh. I watched the video and one Jew said: as long as you Russians believe in Christ, we will rule you. As for Peter, he was replaced and he brought a lot of nasty things, for example: our chronology was stolen and now every European mongrel says that we are nobody.
  35. co-creator
    co-creator 11 March 2018 19: 01
    +2
    tlauicol,
    tlauicol,
    Quote: Tlauicol
    "naive collaboration" is also sarcasm, incl. let the ygo be. Your "Code of the people" does not have a definition at all, EYAVPP?

    Igo was not, point. If there is an IGO, for example, let the boys be girls, what difference is right.
    I don’t know what the EJAWP is.
    What does the code of the people have no definition?
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Культурный_код
    и
    http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/texsts/rus/stat/st689
    2.pdf
    Quote: Tlauicol
    What kind of land? e.g. Pereslavl Zalessky. Those. "they called to the carpet" and said: "will you give this property to Tversky? swallowed it? well, good riddance, and don’t forget about the tribute!"

    Documents available?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    "Nizhny Novgorod Prince. After a hundred years, Basil bought in the Horde, and not just captured.

    Who bought and in what way? How much is paid? An order, a decree from the Horde to the Nizhny Novgorod prince on submission to Moscow?
    Captured or combined in those days is almost the same thing.
    Quote: Tlauicol
    True, the Horde heirs sometimes, changing their minds, alienated NN in favor of other princes. To new promises.

    The Principality of Nizhny Novgorod was annexed to Moscow in 1392. In what years and to what principalities was Nizhny Novgorod transferred from Moscow?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    It turns out whether Moscow will join the land or not for a long time depended on the crumbling Horde, and the mood of the changing khans, who loved gold more than iron.

    Documents will be? It turns out that without documents you make an assumption no more. Based on your conclusions, you need to explain what practical sense was the Horde people to “reward” the princes with lands
    smaller princes? What income will be added from this? If they are all vassals, then they should obey only the overlord.
    Obviously, the princes went to negotiations primarily on the trade line. The one who won the negotiations got the opportunity to earn money, invited settlers to these money, gathered squads, etc. Ordinary policy.

    Quote: Tlauicol
    Yes, Tokhtamysh burned Moscow, and did not forget about debt - is news for you?

    So I ask you, how is the Crimean Khan? Well, he also burned Moscow and did not forget about debt. What is the difference?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    I do not believe in the plot of the chroniclers, i.e. They worked for different customers. There are no business documents left, yes, this is a problem, but you also do not confirm your version with any documents. And this is even less than annalistic sources.

    Well, there are only a few chronicles, the rest are all lists. Monks write chronicles with understandable logic, the Christian goes to the filthy, and they torture his poor and subordinate to his will otherwise to explain their cooperation? Is this an order? There is no doubt on the part of Orthodoxy, just like the order to describe the Slavs as wild animals before the adoption of Christianity. For example, there are a lot of lies in the annals (which historians are covering up with all their might), starting from the Mongol population and ending with the Kulikovo battle.
    Why is my version not confirmed by anything? For example, Russian princes used the services of the Tatars both in internal wars and external ones. For example, Nevsky had Tatar regiments on Lake Peipsi. In Sarai there was an Orthodox diocese and the Russian quarter, but in Russia there was nothing detailed from the Horde. For example, when the Horde converted to Islam, a mosque and clergy were required to appear at the vassal, but this is not. Do not forget the ukshuynikov who already plundered the Saraichik and what is the answer from the Horde. Normally, the vassals rob the overlords.
    Further, the annals can be read differently correctly. Here's an example of how you read these texts:
    "And what about our Ordintsy and Deheni, and so do we know our own service, as it was with our father" [Ancient Russian vivlofika. T. 1 / Ed. N. Novikov. Ed. 2. - M. Printing company, 1788. - S. 75-76].

    . In the Contractual letter of V.K. Vasily Dmitrievich with the princes, 1402, No. 17 it is written: "... and the God of the Tatars will change qi (if the Horde is separated from us), and that place will be me, Grand Duke Vasily Dmitrievich. And what your father, Prince Oleg Ivanovich, took Tatar and Mordovian places, and that is your place "[Ibid., p. 126].

    "And the Hordes are my nobility and rule - to the Grand Duke, but the Horde is not your nobility" [Ancient Russian vivlofika, T. 1. Ed. 2nd. - S. 218], "And to the Horde, Lord, governing and nobility to you, the Grand Duke" [Ibid. - S. 224].

    Prince Edigey, who came from the horde to Moscow, laments about this: “Otherwise, if good, how do you fix it? As the emir-king Kotluy sat on the kingdom, and the Tsar took the place of the ulus (country - auth.), From those places he was not in the horde of the king (you are auth.), He didn’t see the prince in his eyes neither his princes nor the boyars Thou shalt eat your oldest and thinned ones - NO SENT ANYONE SENT, nor son nor brother with any word. And then Dzhanibek reigned EIGHT years, and he didn’t have this one and didn’t send anyone with a word; and the Jadibek kingdom also passed. And Bulat Saltan sat down to the kingdom and reigned for the third year already - if he hadn’t been there himself, he didn’t send his son or brother, nor the oldest boyar, but over the great great ulus the oldest one was the Grand Duke ”[Collection of State Letters and Treaties. Part 2. (1229 - 1612 gg.) / Ed. N. Rumyantsev - M., 1819. - S. 16].
    And so on and so forth.
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Regarding the Crimea and pumping units - in general, then. For 300 years, Russia-Russia also did not beat the buck: constant wars and riots. She didn’t deal with Crimea alone.
    (WITH)"

    Well, that is, it is not about pumping, but in politics, right?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Are you talking about the protection of the Volga way? From whom, from Krasnov or from Wrangel? There were no longer any threats to the Moscow State, so they were sent. True, not very decisively, just pay less steel (you never know how it turns out)

    From the nomads themselves, of course. There were many tribes in the horde that the Horde united and held them only by force. As soon as it weakened, for example, the Kazan citizens began to make raids on their own and the Russian squads responded to Kazan. The big horde could not do anything.
    You already decide the Horde didn’t represent anything or did it all the same, and therefore continued to pay tribute?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    In the meantime, the Horde were stronger, they decided what land Moscow will buy, which not, and which to select and pass it to competitors. And who will get the table.

    Rave. Is there any documentation?
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Muscovites were more cunning and unprincipled, and better guessed the mood of sworn friends, waiting 200 years until the heirs of Genghis Khan cut each other. And even after the Ugrians waited and paid slowly, thanks the Crimean Khan cut them

    Of course, Moscow princes are more cunning since they gathered Russia under themselves, and not vice versa. The fact that the nomads cut each other there only affected the duration of the union no more.
    Peter the first paid Crimeans so what? Germany paid 100 years of France and England after WWII so what? Understand you finally pay "exit", "tribute", "indemnity" is not enough for political control and even more so the appointment of elites.
  36. andrew42
    andrew42 27 March 2018 07: 20
    0
    That's it, that myth. Because the so-called "Europe" is a part of Russian civilization, or rather Eurasian, and more precisely Hyperborean, are the descendants of the migrants to the "blessed" thawing West, modern "summer residents" are perverts who have digested the inheritance of the Roman Empire, who have suffered from Christian obscurantism, have reached an impasse in robbery of world "markets" (markets - in all available aspects and sections), and rolled into tolerance with the inability to self-defense and self-preservation. Everything useful and progressive that, contrary to the process, Europe was able to generate (science, art, technology of all time), everything is leveled by the efforts of the owners of the American Kaganate. Woe to the vanquished, as a gall named Brenn used to say, throwing his sword on the scales in the Roman Capitol.
  37. andrew42
    andrew42 27 March 2018 07: 40
    0
    Cat,
    This is from the category of “Rus” give up! ”And if in the case, then this is about the blatant irresponsibility of a significant part of the modern“ judiciary ”, irresponsibility in the understanding of the lack of responsibility for the decisions that are being made. Without an ideological imperative (which is not a panacea in itself) , the presence of a moral imperative in court decisions will always tend to zero. The Agabeks from Khoja Nasreddin and the Third Reich courts also worked according to the "letter of the law", but the laws were "not the same" and there was little pleasant for those whose life was regulated by these "unshakable" laws.
  38. Anatoly veles
    Anatoly veles 29 March 2018 03: 36
    0
    Here is the author of the article, Alexander Samsonov writes:

    Russia was originally a separate, self-sufficient civilization, with its code-matrix of development. The basis of the Russian matrix is ​​social justice, such concepts as conscience, truth and love.


    The author of the article is a famous historian. It seemed to him and cards in hand to bring specific historical facts that would illustrate the wonderful properties of the Russian matrix: such as social justice, conscience, truth and love.
    But for some reason he stubbornly avoids this and limits himself to the usual enumeration of these properties. I think that he certainly had certain motives to avoid voicing the historical facts of Russian history.

    To begin with, let us take up the famous chronicle of the Provisional Years, or as it is sometimes called the Nesterov Chronicle. And open it on the page where the process of the emergence of a state called Russia is described:

    “In the year 6370 (862 according to modern calendar). ... And they went overseas to the Varangians, to Russia. Those Varangians were called Rus, as the others are called Swedes, and other Normans and Angles, and also other Gotlanders - like these. Chud, Slovenia, Krivichy and the whole Russia said: “Our land is large and plentiful, but there is no outfit in it. Come to reign and let us go. ” And three brothers with their clans were chosen, and took all Russia with them, and they came and sat the eldest, Rurik, in Novgorod, and the other, Sineus, on Beloozero, and the third, Truvor, in Izborsk. And from those Varangians the Russian land was nicknamed. Novgorodians are those people from the Varangian clan, and before that they were Slovenian ... ”

    The whole point of this passage is that the Varangians are descendants of the Scandinavians who collected tribute from the Slavic tribes. They were alien and hostile to these tribes, in other words: enemies. For which the Varangians got their name. Naturally, they were expelled at some point, but then a fratricidal and bloody war began between these kindred tribes. And in order to avoid final self-destruction, they had to call their sworn enemies from the other end of the sea, so that they could restore order by their own power. Such was the love, conscience and truth between the brothers.

    Now we turn to such a well-known concept from ancient Russian history as a fortress. Do you think the fortress is a fortification? And in this case, you are deeply mistaken.
    But first, let us recall the concepts of serf and servants.
    A slave is a slave from the local population, a slave is a slave captured as a result of a campaign against neighboring tribes, communities and states.
    Thus, in Russian history for many centuries there were slaves from their own local population, who were called slaves.
    The owner could kill his slave and at the same time did not bear any responsibility. He is a slave.
    Forcibly, it was possible to get into slaves as a result of overdue debt, on which a percentage was also imposed.
    If a person was born into a serf family, then he also became the property of the owner.
    But very often people voluntarily went into slavery in order to not starve themselves and somehow feed their family in order to save them from starvation.
    Such servility was called whitewashed.
    The process of turning a free citizen of Russia into a slave, under the status of a slave, was accompanied by an agreement that was called a fortress.
    It should be noted that the concepts of serfs, serfs, began at the dawn of the emergence of the Russian state and existed until the end of the 19th century. You can say these are the fundamental concepts of Russian history.
    From here we can clearly see how social justice and fraternal love were expressed in the Russian matrix. And it consisted in the fact that the rich sections of the Russian population, taking advantage of the plight of their citizens, turned them, as well as their children, into their own slaves.

    All these arguments of the author about the Russian matrix are another speculation on the patriotic feelings of readers.