Military Review

President's news: Dagger aircraft missile system

103
On the first day of spring, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed the Federal Assembly with an annual message. The head of state spoke about recent successes and set new tasks. In addition, he touched on the topic of strategic weapons designed to ensure the country's security. In the future, all major armed forces will receive new systems, including combat aviation. Together with existing aircraft, it is proposed to use the “Dagger” aviation missile system.


The story of the new weapons for the aerospace forces, Putin began with a reminder of current trends in aerospace technology. Now leading countries with great scientific potential and modern technologies are developing the so-called hypersonic weapons. Then the president gave a short “lecture” on physics and aerodynamics. He pointed out that the speed of sound is traditionally measured in mahs - the unit is named for in part of the Austrian physicist Ernst Mach. At an altitude of 11 km 1 max equals 1062 km / h. The speed from M = 1 to M = 5 is considered supersonic, more than M = 5 - hypersonic.


MiG-31BM takes off with a rocket "Dagger"


Weapons with hypersonic flight speeds give the armed forces the most serious advantages over the enemy. Such weapons can be characterized by high power, and high speed protects them from being intercepted by air defense or missile defense. Interceptors simply cannot catch the attacking item. According to the president, it is clear why the leading countries of the world are striving to take possession of such weapons. But Russia already has such funds.

Vladimir Putin called the development of a high-precision aviation missile system, which, it is said, has no analogues in foreign countries, as the most important stage in the creation of modern weapons. Tests of this system have already been completed. Moreover, since December 1, the new complex has been used as an experimental combat duty on the airfields of the Southern Military District.


Rocket bigger


According to V. Putin, a rocket using a high-speed carrier aircraft should go to the launch site in a matter of minutes. After resetting, the rocket develops a speed ten times higher than the speed of sound. Throughout the trajectory, despite the high speed, the product is able to perform maneuvers. The ability to change the flight path allows you to protect the missile from enemy defenses. According to the president, the new rocket is guaranteed to overcome modern and, possibly, promising air defense and missile defense systems. Hypersonic missile capable of flying at a distance of up to 2 thousand. Km and deliver to the target conventional or nuclear warhead.

Unlike some other promising developments presented last week, the aviation missile system has already received its own name. It was designated as "Dagger". Other names and designations, such as the index of the RAU, the working code of the project, etc. the president did not give.

As in the case of other advanced weapons, the president’s words were followed by a demo video showing the most interesting shots from tests of a promising missile system. Video filming in the clearest way confirms the statements of V. Putin on testing. Some of the stages of one of the test launches, filmed by military operators, were allowed to be used in the video to show the general public.


Airplane before dropping a rocket


The video begins with the take-off shots of the MiG-31BM interceptor. Already during the run-up, it is clear that, under the bottom of its fuselage, not the usual and standard ammunition, but some new weapon is suspended. The interceptor lifts into the air a large and massive rocket of a new type. Part of the further flight with the launch point, however, was shown using simplified computer graphics. But then again there was a video of real tests with a real launch of the rocket.

Being on a given course and maintaining a certain height and speed, the carrier aircraft dropped the Dagger rocket. In free flight, it "failed" in height, after which it dropped the tail fairing and launched the cruise engine. The flight of the rocket again did not show in the form of documentary frames and depicted schematically. In the next episode, the computer model of the aircraft dropped an animated rocket, while it went along a ballistic trajectory to the ship of the conventional enemy. It should be noted that the painted target ship had a recognizable appearance and looked like a real sample.


Product X-47М2 separated


The last stages of the rocket flight, reaching the target area, and then guiding it, were shown using graphics. And the “camera” this time was right on board the rocket. The product went to the enemy ship, went into a dive, and then the video signal, as expected, disappeared. However, the video showed the defeat of the target, although it was different. The ammunition fell on the ground fortification and blew it up. The carrier aircraft MiG-31BM, in turn, returned to the airfield and completed landing.

Shortly after the president’s speech ended, new information about the Dagger project appeared. So, the Russian press brought the second designation of the new rocket - X-47М2. The commander of the aerospace forces, Colonel-General Sergei Surovikin pointed out that the new rocket belongs to the class of hypersonic aeroballistic weapons. According to him, state tests of the new complex have already been carried out at the sites of the Ministry of Defense. During the checks, he fully confirmed its effectiveness. All missile launches ended with an exact defeat of the intended targets.

The commander-in-chief of the VKS also revealed some details of the combat work of the Dagger product. So, on the final ballistic part of the flight, the rocket uses an all-weather homing head. This provides the possibility of using a rocket at any time of the day to obtain the required accuracy and selectivity of hitting the target. The maximum speed of a rocket in flight is 10 times the speed of sound. Firing range, as confirmed by the commander in chief, reaches 2 thousand. Km.


Reset tail fairing


Thus, in the interests of the Aerospace Forces, a newer air ballistic missile was developed, suitable for the destruction of various ground or surface objects. Product X-47М2 "Dagger" can carry both conventional and special warhead, which expands the range of tasks. As the carrier now used interceptors MiG-31 latest modification of the "BM".

One of the most interesting features of the project "Dagger" is the choice of aircraft carrier. The air-to-surface missile was decided to be used with a fighter, the main weapon of which is air-to-air products. The reasons for this are obvious. The maximum speed of the MiG-31BM at the height reaches 3400 km / h, which allows it to reach the starting point in the shortest time. In addition, the high speed of the carrier when a missile is dropped provides several advantages. At the moment of dumping, the rocket already has a high initial velocity, and therefore the energy of its engine leaves only for subsequent acceleration with access to a quasi-ballistic trajectory.


Engine starting


Thus, the potential of the rocket, provided by hypersonic flight speed, is not reduced due to insufficient carrier parameters. From the point of view of flight speed, preliminary acceleration of the rocket and speed of solving combat missions, the MiG-31BM is the most successful platform.

Product X-47М2 has very simple shapes and outlines. The rocket received a conical head fairing, which accounts for about half the length of the product. The second half of the body is formed by a cylindrical section, equipped with X-shaped planes in the tail section. The flat tail section of the hull is equipped with a drop-down fairing in the shape of a truncated cone during flight. Exact information about the design of the product has not yet been given, but we can already say that it is equipped with a solid propellant sustainer engine. The type of homing head is unknown.

It should be noted that the new aircraft missile looks very similar to the ballistic ammunition of the operational-tactical complex Iskander. In the past, there were rumors at various levels about the possible creation of an aviation modification of this system, but they still have not received official confirmation. The characteristic exterior of the newest rocket "Dagger" can serve as a kind of confirmation of the rumors of the recent past. At the same time, the similarity can only be associated with similar technical requirements and tactical role.


Rocket headed for the target


It is alleged that the rocket "Dagger" belongs to the class of aeroballistic. This means that the product is dropped from the carrier aircraft, after which it turns on the engine and with its help enters an upward trajectory. Further, the flight is almost the same as in the case of other ballistic missiles. The difference X-47М2 from other systems is due to the use of the homing head. Instruments whose type has not yet been specified are used to detect the target and correct the course of the rocket at all stages of flight, including the descending portion of the ballistic trajectory. In the latter case, it provides the most accurate hit in the specified target.

The promising Dagger, like the already well-known Iskander, has characteristic features: the missiles of both complexes are able to maneuver along a trajectory. Because of this, the enemy’s anti-missile systems lose the possibility of miscalculation of the trajectory of the incoming missile and the correct interception. On the descending part of the trajectory, the rocket develops a maximum speed, up to M = 10, which sharply reduces the allowed reaction time. As a result, the Dagger system is indeed capable of displaying the highest combat performance and breaking through the existing air and missile defense system.


Demonstration of the principles of constructing a flight path


First, Vladimir Putin, and then Sergei Surovikin told about the recent work in the framework of the project with the cipher "Dagger". Not later than last fall, the industry and the Ministry of Defense conducted all the necessary tests of the latest rocket, and also completed its fine-tuning. December 1 has already issued an order to take a new rocket into pilot operation. Product X-47М2 is operated as part of a full-fledged complex, which also includes the MiG-31BM carrier aircraft. So far, only aviation units from the Southern Military District have a new weapon.

Apparently, in the foreseeable future, the armed forces will complete the trial operation of the newest weapons, and shortly thereafter the Dagger complex will receive a recommendation for adoption. The result of this will be the re-equipment of aviation units, accompanied by a significant increase in the strike potential of tactical aviation.


Rocket hits target


It should be recalled that at the moment Russian tactical aviation has only air-to-surface systems with a launch range of tens or hundreds of kilometers. Products capable of flying thousands of kilometers, are in service only in strategic aviation. The Dagger missile system with a launch range of up to 2000 km will actually occupy an intermediate position between purely tactical and exclusively strategic weapons. With it, it will be possible to strike as quickly as possible at enemy targets at operational and strategic depth.

Greater flexibility of application will be provided by the existence of special and non-nuclear combat units. Depending on the task and the type of object being attacked, it will be possible to choose one or another warhead. Thus, the fighting qualities of the X-47М2 rocket will fully correspond to its “intermediate” position. Tactical aviation, in turn, will bring its capabilities closer to the strategic one.



All promising models of strategic weapons presented by Vladimir Putin last Thursday were created in the interests of the nuclear forces and with the aim of ensuring the deterrence of a potential adversary. Aviation missile complex "Dagger" is fully consistent with such tasks, although it turns out to be more flexible and versatile in comparison with other systems. Depending on the situation in the theater of military operations, it can become a means of a powerful strike by the forces of tactical aviation or solve problems characteristic of strategic complexes.

The “Dagger” missile complex has already passed almost all stages of inspections, including government tests. According to the results of development work, he was put on experimental combat duty in parts of the Aerospace Forces. Thus, the armed forces have already received one of the newest models of strike weapons and are now mastering it. In the foreseeable future, upon completion of all required checks and trial operation, the new missile will be put into service and will go to the parts warehouses. The potential of the VKS will significantly increase, and with it the country's defense capability will also improve.


Based on:
http://kremlin.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://rg.ru/
Author:
103 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 7 March 2018 06: 19
    0
    In the days of the USSR, there were MARC and Krechet projects ... air-based ICBMs based on the P29 ... could return to them ... ???
    1. Rostovchanin
      Rostovchanin 7 March 2018 09: 06
      +1
      For the MiG 31 shift you need a decent, good plane, but unfortunately it’s aging and we don’t have much left. Here there will be regiments with a dozen armed with daggers, then the effect on the face.
      1. alstr
        alstr 7 March 2018 09: 29
        +1
        I think that the second carrier will be our stealth - Su-57. And the Mig-31 is still a temporary option.
        Although the replacement of the Mig-31 with much better characteristics is also needed.
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 7 March 2018 09: 40
        +1
        There are persistent rumors about the development of the MiG-41, which should have high-speed characteristics close to hypersound, as well as use the elements of stealth technology in the design.
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 7 March 2018 10: 53
          +1
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Persistent rumors about the development of the MiG-41,

          The fact that the MiG-31 was chosen as the carrier of the “Dagger” confirms that the development of the 41st is underway. Also, indirect confirmation of this is the return to the Tu-160 series, that is, the development of PAK YES is not accelerated
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 7 March 2018 11: 30
          0
          "There are persistent rumors about the development of the MiG-41, which should have
          speed characteristics close to hypersound "////

          If only he is unmanned. Type - rocket smile .
          Even on the MiG-25 with a record supersonic of 3 MAX, the glass of the lantern began to melt
          and repent sheathing. And the engine (on such an afterburner) burned out completely.
          3 MAX could be done a few seconds and only once.
          1. Ponchik78
            Ponchik78 7 March 2018 13: 28
            +10
            On the MiG-31BM this drawback is eliminated. Now the 31st accelerates to 3600 km / h without consequences for the lantern.
            1. figwam
              figwam 7 March 2018 15: 14
              0
              And in February there was a compassionate article how the Su-34 loses the F-15E, because they have a JASSM-ER missile with a range of 1200 km and a speed of 0.8 max, here’s the answer, MiG-31 and the X-47M2 “Dagger” missile, range 2000 km and speed up to 10 max.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 7 March 2018 15: 28
                +4
                JASSM-ER - classic CD. Stealth. Attacks the target, flying low near the surface
                water.
                Dagger - a ballistic missile launched from an airplane up. Attacks the target from above, flying along a ballistic trajectory with correction at the terminal section ..
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Lex.
              Lex. 7 March 2018 22: 31
              0
              accelerates to 3600 km / h
              The news said 3400 and without rockets
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 7 March 2018 21: 05
            +5
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Even on the MiG-25 with a record supersonic of 3 MAX, the glass of the lantern began to melt

            This is not correct information. The lantern was all right, the gaskets of the seal melted
            .
            Quote: voyaka uh
            and repent sheathing. And the engine (on such an afterburner) burned out completely.

            The same, not reliable information. When exceeding the recommended speed, the skin really, very heated, and could "go corrugated" (that is, a plane for decommissioning) There were no problems with the engines: they have, the higher the speed, the greater the thrust (at speeds of two Mach, most of the compression was provided by the duct [as in ram engines]). By the way, the compressor of the 25th has only four compression stages (for example, the compressor of the Su-27 engine has three times more), since it is useless anymore (at high speeds, the air duct plays their role).
        3. demos1111
          demos1111 8 March 2018 12: 46
          0
          And on the Tu22 M3 or on the SU34 dagger does not fit? It would be very good.
    2. SK70
      SK70 7 March 2018 10: 12
      +6
      Quote: Strashila
      In the foreseeable future, upon completion of all required inspections and trial operation, the new missile will be put into service and will go to parts warehouses.

      They know how to write texts.
      Finish the arm first and PAK FA.
      1. St Petrov
        St Petrov 7 March 2018 13: 07
        +6
        They know how to write texts.
        Finish the arm first and PAK FA.


        know how to write comments.

        So close the project of hypersonic weapons - after all, you need to finish the armature and wait for the end of the Su-57 tests
        1. SK70
          SK70 7 March 2018 17: 23
          0
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          So close the project of hypersonic weapons - after all, you need to finish the armature and wait for the end of the Su-57 tests

          No. We do it slowly and confront the fact.
          Like the Chinese.
    3. AUL
      AUL 7 March 2018 11: 33
      +1
      In the days of the USSR, there were MARC and Krechet projects ... air-based ICBMs based on the P29 ... could return to them ... ???
      The agreement prohibited airborne ICBMs.
      1. mkpda
        mkpda 7 March 2018 12: 19
        +2
        The ABM Treaty is already in the basket, and the treaties were interconnected. Strategic arms treaties will soon end. All sorts of options are possible, the main thing is to choose the most correct option.
  3. g1v2
    g1v2 7 March 2018 06: 45
    +4
    At one time, it was vital for the USSR to get an atomic bomb. Then - hydrogen. Now the Russian Federation had to get hypersonic weapons first. We won this race. But this is not the last part of the race - there will be more. I hope in the future we will not blunder. Possessing such weapons will give us more security than a dozen contracts. hi
    1. snc
      snc 7 March 2018 10: 42
      +4
      Not really. A true hypersound is a uniform flight in a straight line in the stratosphere in the forward-flow tank, there are still problems with it.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 7 March 2018 11: 38
        +5
        A dagger is a variant of a ballistic missile warhead launched by
        from a high-altitude fighter. There is no ramjet engine. There is the usual
        rocket engine, which further raises the device up.
        Then the fuel burns out and the device goes into a ballistic trajectory,
        similar to the BGDS.
        Surely inertial navigation. The stationary target will hit. A moving target will not hit.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 7 March 2018 21: 15
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          There is no ramjet engine.

          Where does this information come from?
          We are armed with rockets with ramjets, only to start them up, we need a certain speed to which the rocket is accelerated by an ordinary solid fuel (which is usually located inside our ramjet, then the solid propellant is thrown out, and then the rocket flies on a ramjet). Even anti-aircraft missiles were made according to such a scheme, and tactical, it must be, of course.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 7 March 2018 21: 31
            +2
            Pay attention to the head fairing of the rocket: it is slightly larger in diameter than the body behind it. That is, in this respect it is similar to our Onyx (Bramos), where the head fairing, after developing a solid fuel accelerator, is reset, opening the air intake of the ram engine.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 7 March 2018 11: 23
      +2
      Nobody really knows how hypersonic is effective. The Americans managed to shoot down rockets and satellites at speeds of more than 20 max. So hypersound alone does not guarantee anything.
      1. Ponchik78
        Ponchik78 7 March 2018 13: 33
        +5
        And when did they manage to hit the rocket at such a speed? Satellite downed, yes! Only it was their companion. For which they knew absolutely everything. Speed, exact coordinates in space. They only worked out the possibility of hitting a satellite from the ground / ship.
      2. Conserp
        Conserp 7 March 2018 14: 33
        +5
        Oh well. It is not necessary to bring down something evenly flying along a predetermined trajectory.

        We have flying at a speed of 28 thousand km / h not only know how to shoot, but regularly cling to it and even climb in there, such wretches.
  4. Essex62
    Essex62 7 March 2018 08: 01
    +3
    Business street was not very comfortable. Tested? Successfully? We start riveting products in hundreds.
  5. forester
    forester 7 March 2018 08: 19
    +3
    The answer to those who spoke about the inappropriateness of the maintenance and operation of the "obsolete" MiG - 31
  6. Serzh_R
    Serzh_R 7 March 2018 09: 02
    +3
    The speed of the 31 Mig with the "Dagger" will be less than 3400.
    In Syria, it’s a pity there’s no one to hit such a thing, but combat duty is excellent!
    It looks like a weapon in the future inaccessible for tracking air defense and disguised as a meteorite.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  8. tchoni
    tchoni 7 March 2018 11: 18
    +1
    Dive attack ... from high altitude ... Cool to insanity. And, is it okay that on every arly berke you almost reach the low orbits? And nitsche that rim161 ALREADY SATELLITE KILLED? SATELLITES - THIS IS THE FIRST COSMIC ... and not a miserable 5-6 swing.
    1. AUL
      AUL 7 March 2018 11: 50
      +5
      And nitsche that rim161 ALREADY SATELLITE KILLED? SATELLITES - THIS IS THE FIRST COSMIC ... and not a miserable 5-6 swing.
      And not that satellites are not maneuvering? Calculating the point of encounter with a non-maneuvering target, regardless of its speed, is one thing, and maneuvering a target with supersonic sound is a completely different task! (The hypersound comes only in the final section of the attack). So don’t worry!
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 7 March 2018 13: 17
        0
        But it’s not necessary to fly 200 km to a rocket?
    2. marline
      marline 7 March 2018 13: 54
      +4
      Quote: tchoni
      And, is it okay that on every arly berke you almost reach the low orbits? And nitsche that rim161 ALREADY SATELLITE KILLED? SATELLITES - THIS IS THE FIRST COSMIC ... and not a miserable 5-6 swing.

      Indeed, satellites fly in dense layers of the atmosphere. And maneuvers just horror how fast.
      And the first hypersonic flight was made by Gagarin.
    3. Conserp
      Conserp 7 March 2018 14: 36
      +4
      You also tell about transforming robots on each Arly Burke.
    4. rehev931
      rehev931 7 March 2018 19: 49
      0
      Well, in the video, in my opinion, the Ticonderoga class missile cruiser is shown. so, apparently, he definitely has no chance !!! wassat
    5. d1975
      d1975 7 March 2018 21: 02
      +2
      Well, finishes off and what, what will they shoot her down with? Everyone knows that they also have a failure in terms of air defense. Why are the Turks S-400 taken? Why did the Americans howl? Yes, because the Turks need it just for them. There are no systems that can work fine, like ours. If anyone began to think well in this direction, it’s the most intelligent. The rest of the knockers are just extras.
    6. KCA
      KCA 12 March 2018 04: 00
      +1
      Conventionally, the first "downing" of a satellite in orbit can be considered the docking of two "Unions" in 1969, what did the Americans achieve a fundamentally new? Defeat a target with known parameters, hundreds of times cross-checked? But do not they try to bring down our maneuvering satellite "inspector", which jumps in orbits like a drunk "checker" in the lanes of the road?
  9. kit88
    kit88 7 March 2018 11: 42
    +1
    Someone who fumbles, tell me, otherwise I apparently lagged behind life.
    The MiG-31 has been an air defense interceptor all its life. Now they are hanging an air-to-surface missile on it, so do you need to create new shelves for this business?
    1. groks
      groks 7 March 2018 12: 50
      0
      It was necessary to display an airplane with high intrinsic speed and with good clearance, in order to suspend this ... thing.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 7 March 2018 21: 22
      0
      Quote: kit88
      The MiG-31 has been an air defense interceptor all its life. Now they are hanging an air-to-surface missile on it, so do you need to create new shelves for this business?

      I think that the 31st is not tasked with shooting somewhere with aim. The coordinates were put into the rocket, the plane took off and shot in the right direction, and then the rocket flies according to the program, which was laid earlier in it.
    3. Doliva63
      Doliva63 7 March 2018 22: 09
      +4
      Quote: kit88
      Someone who fumbles, tell me, otherwise I apparently lagged behind life.
      The MiG-31 has been an air defense interceptor all its life. Now they are hanging an air-to-surface missile on it, so do you need to create new shelves for this business?

      New planes are needed for new regiments, but they are stupidly absent - from the 94th MiG-31 it was discontinued. So they’ll hang everything on air defense.
    4. Dmitry hippie
      Dmitry hippie 11 March 2018 01: 16
      0
      Obviously, we are talking about the MiG-31BM - a multi-purpose version ... See. Wiki.
  10. smaug78
    smaug78 7 March 2018 11: 58
    +1
    Mig-31 and engaged in interception and AUG smashes at the same time. Everything mixed up in the house of KhPPshnikov.
  11. Tektor
    Tektor 7 March 2018 12: 13
    +5
    This is a real breakthrough! The dagger changes the alignment a little more than completely ... It resets the surface component of the probable partners, who are now categorically contraindicated to approach 2000 km to our borders. So their RCs can theoretically hit something only at a shallow tactical depth from the coasts. The defense stability of our Strategic Rocket Forces is achieved, for which we have the bulk of the units in operational readiness. Is it necessary to say that all other NATA objects within a radius of 700 km from our borders per hour "H" should be neutralized in synchronism with the attack of the Dagger by the intended forces? By the way, Londongrad is located from the Kaliningrad region at a distance of 1400 km, approximately, and at a speed of 10M the Dagger can be reached in 7,5 minutes. This is a very important time! Which excludes illusions.
  12. Shadow shooter
    Shadow shooter 7 March 2018 12: 30
    0
    And when you equip a rocket with an additional powder accelerator, you can even launch it with a TU-95, right? Or am I wrong?
    1. d1975
      d1975 7 March 2018 21: 04
      +2
      Maybe theoretically and yes, but at what speed will the bear crawl?
  13. Operator
    Operator 7 March 2018 16: 14
    +1
    The “Dagger” missile complex is not a missile (it’s just the famous Iskander-M with a tail aerodynamic fairing), but a MiG-31 fighter, which can reach speeds of 12M and altitude 30 km (due to the use of 50% in the design of the airframe and turbojet engines with a low bypass ratio).

    As part of the Dagger complex, the MiG-31 plays the role of the first booster stage (up to 10M and altitude 30 km) of the Iskander-M rocket, the flight range of which thereby increases from 500 to 2000 km.

    An analogue of the MiG-31 in terms of altitude and speed characteristics until the 1998 year was the American SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft. Now in service are about 250 MiG-31 and zero SR-71.

    Well and the last - the Dagger complex with an air-based medium-range ballistic missile does not violate the RSMD agreement from the word in any way.
    1. Operator
      Operator 7 March 2018 17: 22
      +2
      Clarification - the maximum speed of the MiG-3 is 3M, the speed of 10M is Iskander-M at the time the rocket engine ends.
      1. NN52
        NN52 7 March 2018 23: 41
        +11
        Operator

        It’s good that they clarified their post ... But not until the end ..
        31 not only does not fly at 12 max (you corrected at 3 max), but at 30 km in altitude it does not reach ...
        And there are no 250 pcs of their type of order ....
        1. Operator
          Operator 8 March 2018 11: 40
          0
          The MiG-30 reaches heights of 31 km from acceleration in horizontal flight.

          In the Russian Aerospace Forces there is 247 MiG-31, of which 80 is in good condition, the rest require repair at the factory in Nizhny Novgorod, which is not a problem.
          1. NN52
            NN52 8 March 2018 13: 56
            +11
            Operator

            Well, what are you so stubborn ...
            You wrote are in service, I pointed out your inaccuracy, are in service and are in storage <different things a little ...
            And you confuse the concept of practical ceiling and dynamic ceiling ..
            Practical in 31 is 20 600 ,,,
            Dynamic only for records, it is not of practical interest ...
            And for the repair of a batch of money they don’t give ....
            1. Operator
              Operator 8 March 2018 17: 49
              0
              Unapproved NN2 - the launch of anti-satellite missiles (with approximately equal mass with the Iskander) MiG-31 carries out on the dynamics (suddenly).
              1. Lucy
                Lucy 8 March 2018 23: 19
                +2
                Just a storyteller. Hold on to the RUS, at least L-29?
                1. Operator
                  Operator 9 March 2018 00: 03
                  0
                  And you, therefore, personally piloted the MiG-31D with the 79M6 Contact rocket? laughing
                  1. ZVO
                    ZVO 15 August 2018 12: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Operator
                    And you, therefore, personally piloted the MiG-31D with the 79M6 Contact rocket? laughing


                    And at least one missile launch contact was at all?

                    there was .. Even with the layout did not fly ....
      2. askme
        askme 9 March 2018 08: 51
        0
        Specify the source of your data. Iskander, according to all available sources, has a speed at the end of the vehicle in the area of ​​6M (approx. 2 km / s), and not approx. 10M (approx. 3,5-4 km / s), like a Dagger.
        1. Operator
          Operator 9 March 2018 09: 44
          0
          To 6M Iskander it is necessary to add 3M MiG and take into account the lower aerodynamic drag of the rocket at the ATE in the stratosphere (with an air launch) compared with the troposphere (with a ground launch).
          1. askme
            askme 9 March 2018 10: 54
            0
            A, clear. That is, you are not talking about the real Iskander-M, but about the fantasy one on the MiG-31. I think that these are still different systems.
            1. Operator
              Operator 9 March 2018 11: 14
              0
              Are you a humanist?

              Study the course of school physics: the speeds of the carrier aircraft and the rocket add up, especially when the rocket is launched on the aircraft’s cabling along the ascending branch of the ballistic trajectory of the rocket.

              Plus jump of the aircraft after acceleration to + 3M at an altitude of 20 km, plus rarefied air of the stratosphere.

              In general, the materiel is our everything.
              1. askme
                askme 9 March 2018 11: 51
                0
                Some kind of alternative “materiel” for you, fantasy, which is not in the troops. Iskander-M, which is real, not fancy, is a ground-based missile system. And what you fantasized is no longer Iskander-M, has he popularly explained? Only you did not take into account the fact that Iskander will need a part of the specific impulse to transfer from horizontal flight at start to vertical. And about cabling on 3M - you are a complete amateur, absolutely not understanding the topic. Overload calculate the maneuver, the arc of the smallest possible radius that the glider can withstand, and even with such a suspension (i.e., the maximum overload of the glider and the maximum overload on the pylons are not the same thing). That is, as you were told, in real life at the peak of the parabola the speed will be close to zero ...
                1. Operator
                  Operator 9 March 2018 12: 50
                  +1
                  An arc with a radius of 10 km (changing flight altitude from 20 to 30 km) will suit you?

                  The MiG-31 glider is designed for an overload of 5 g, the Iskander-M is several times larger, the rocket is not suspended on the underwing pylons, but under the fuselage, the plane does not go on a parabolic trajectory when it jumps, but moves strictly along an arc of the specified radius, the rocket is launched at the point of conjugation of the arc with a parabola.

                  Any more questions?
                  1. askme
                    askme 9 March 2018 13: 19
                    0
                    Yeah, you don’t know the permissible overload on the pylons, which is not surprising. Because these pylons were initially structurally designed for completely different loads and, accordingly, overloads ... you are too self-confident. And the production car is not designed for an altitude of 30 km ... Okay, good luck.
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 9 March 2018 13: 59
                      0
                      How do you know that these pylons are used and that the MiG-31 was a 1994 model?
                      1. NN52
                        NN52 9 March 2018 18: 11
                        +9
                        Operator

                        We watch the video again and draw conclusions ...
                        On the MiG video 31 DZ, and that means speed limit ... 2.83.
                        Also on the video we watch the moment of separation of the product and filming from the other side, where a pleasant female voice says "MANEUVER LIMIT" ..
                        You want to say that the board from which they shot was also flying at 3M, and there were suicides there, to make such a roll at such a speed, and even with a decrease?
                        In my opinion, the speed of the product reset within 900, on the call ...
                        And at 10 M she goes out ...
          2. KKND
            KKND 9 March 2018 11: 30
            0
            Quote: Operator
            To 6M "Iskander" it is necessary to add 3M MiG

            Nonsense. 3M Miga on the dynamic ceiling will not be from the word at all. The highest point will be 0.
            Andrei, I don’t understand what achievement 6 is to fly a rocket into the air. Let on Miga. The Phoenix was 6M, but after 100 kilometers it was far from 6M.
            1. Operator
              Operator 9 March 2018 12: 57
              0
              Quote: KKND
              Nonsense

              See my previous comment.

              Do not confuse God's gift (Iskander-M ballistic missile with a detachable warhead and a huge ratio of fuel mass to the mass of the warhead) with fried eggs (AIM-54 Phoenix air-to-air missile with a small ratio of fuel mass to the mass of the rocket, warhead and equipment management).
              At the same time, the Iskander-M detachable warhead has a multiple of smaller diameter and multiple elongation than the missile itself, and the separation warhead is equipped with its own solid propellant rocket engine and not the fact that it is low-power.

              Google "Ballistic Missile Aerial Launch".
              1. KKND
                KKND 9 March 2018 13: 20
                0
                Quote: Operator
                Do not confuse God's gift (Iskander-M ballistic missile with a detachable warhead and a huge ratio of fuel mass to the mass of the warhead) with fried eggs (AIM-54 Phoenix air-to-air missile with a small ratio of fuel mass to the mass of the rocket, warhead and equipment management).

                What is there to confuse? 6 M and in Africa 6 M. There is hope for a long period of engine operation, but if it works for too long, it will be even worse from the point of view of the energy characteristics of the rocket (it’s very clever to disperse a heavy rocket for a long time). The ratio of the mass of fuel to the mass of the hull, which on Phoenix and on Iskander can be generally approximately the same, you can clearly see it.
                The only plus is a heavy inertia rocket, necessary to overcome aerodynamic drag, however, if it maneuvers, it will be “write lost” range.
                Quote: Operator
                At the same time, the Iskander-M detachable warhead has a multiple of smaller diameter and multiple elongation than the missile itself, and the warhead is equipped with a solid propellant rocket engine and not the fact that it is low-power.

                Why do an inseparable engine on a warhead do?
                1. Operator
                  Operator 9 March 2018 13: 37
                  0
                  If your launcher itself is moving at a speed of 3M in the direction of flight of the rocket, then the speed of the rocket will be + 3M.

                  The solid propellant rocket launcher on a detachable warhead is made for separation at a higher speed than the flight speed of the rest of the rocket.
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 9 March 2018 13: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Operator
                    If your launcher itself is moving at a speed of 3M in the direction of flight of the rocket, then the speed of the rocket will be + 3M.

                    It is far from a fact that at 30 km altitude will be 3M, and not 0.5M, for example. The dynamic ceiling, as I understand it, is simply the conversion of the kinetic energy of an airplane into a height, and for a long time the airplane is on it, the airplane naturally cannot. But here, one can argue, I'm not sure I'm right.
                    The horizontal speed of the aircraft, according to the idea, should also turn into zero at the maximum of the dynamic ceiling. Otherwise, what is this ceiling?
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 7 March 2018 16: 16
    +1
    Launch platform Mach 2,5-3 and then a hypersonic missile capable of maneuvering along the trajectory. All this taken together depreciates the existing and perspective (for 20 years) missile defense. Ships, air bases, cities cannot be protected, but bunkers are possible.
    In the first place, it will sink deep into the ground, then the counteraction to the guidance system, and if this does not help, you can catch the warhead at the final stage.
    1. michey
      michey 8 March 2018 08: 09
      0
      Yes, no luck to your hosts
  15. Old26
    Old26 8 March 2018 15: 51
    +1
    Quote: Strashila
    In the days of the USSR, there were MARC and Krechet projects ... air-based ICBMs based on the P29 ... could return to them ... ???

    We will not return. Prohibited if they have a range of more than 600 km

    Quote: mkpda
    The ABM Treaty is already in the basket, and the treaties were interconnected. Strategic arms treaties will soon end. All sorts of options are possible, the main thing is to choose the most correct option.

    Not really. The ABM Treaty limited only the ABM systems, although it was adopted at the same time as the SALT Treaty ...
    The surest option is to follow the contract while it follows your “partner”. In any case, withdrawal or violation of the START treaties will result in us being far from the best carrier position. On warheads, no matter where it went, but on carriers. Our adversary will be able to deploy them an order of magnitude more, and in areas where we will not be able to fend off its deployment.

    Quote: g1v2
    At one time, it was vital for the USSR to get an atomic bomb. Then - hydrogen. Now the Russian Federation had to get hypersonic weapons first. We won this race. But this is not the last part of the race - there will be more. I hope in the future we will not blunder. Possessing such weapons will give us more security than a dozen contracts. hi

    We have not won this race yet. The fact that several samples of these weapons either undergo military tests, or stand on the HBS - does not mean that we won the race. This can be said when such a weapon enters the army en masse, and will not be in 1-2 copies.

    Quote: Bad_gr
    Pay attention to the head fairing of the rocket: it is slightly larger in diameter than the body behind it. That is, in this respect it is similar to our Onyx (Bramos), where the head fairing, after developing a solid fuel accelerator, is reset, opening the air intake of the ram engine.

    very good comment, Congratulations. If this is true, then the issue of violation of the strategic arms treaty is removed, where a ban on the deployment of BRVZ (aeroballistic) missiles with a range of over 600 km is spelled out. Then it will be actually a cruise missile. This is an option. I once cited the second as an example. This is a drawing from a patent (mine coloring)

    It is also a fairing, but under it there is also a winged vehicle .. Reset of the fairing casing after the product reaches the start speed of the engine. And the main thing is not even that. Who and how will give target designation to the carrier "Dagger" ???
    After all, to strike at a range of 2000 km - it is necessary that AWACS hangs about six hundred kilometers from the AUG, which he is unlikely to be allowed to do

    Quote: Serzh_R
    The speed of the 31 Mig with the "Dagger" will be less than 3400.

    much. such a suspension will greatly slow down the MIG
    1. Operator
      Operator 9 March 2018 22: 04
      0
      A hypersonic ramjet engine using chemical fuel does not exist in nature due to the impossibility of mixture formation in the combustion chamber - see interview with Herbert Efremov.
  16. Lucy
    Lucy 9 March 2018 14: 49
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    And you, therefore, personally piloted the MiG-31D with the 79M6 Contact rocket? laughing


    Play further on H = 30m. For walking in flight, make another picture in the second hand.
  17. chingachguc
    chingachguc 9 March 2018 17: 23
    0
    in the cartoon, an over-horizon maneuver is shown, and in the video the rocket falls from above. In principle, with such speeds she still will not need to maneuver soon - the probable enemy simply does not have the means to shoot down missiles at a speed of 3300 m / s. And we have)) S-300 can fight targets up to 2800 m / s "Buk M-3" - with targets up to 3000 m / s
  18. Operator
    Operator 9 March 2018 18: 15
    0
    NN52,
    What is 2.83?

    How do we know that the video does not test rocket launch at minimum range?

    The speed of 10M, declared for the "Dagger" of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, is achieved by adding the velocities of the carrier and the rocket during launch on the carrier cabling in the stratosphere.
    1. NN52
      NN52 9 March 2018 18: 49
      +10
      Operator

      Limiting the maximum speed of unmodernized sides for glazing the lantern .... 2,83
      With external pendants, missiles, speed limit 2,35. (and upgraded ones too)
      You are mistaken with your theory about launch in climb with acceleration in the horizon ....
      Even if he reaches a height of 20 m in the horizon, he will pick up 000 and go to climb, the speed will drop sharply, and what will be the speed at start-up? What for?
      The question is that we don’t know at what speed our guys made the launch of the main engine ..
      1. Operator
        Operator 9 March 2018 20: 18
        -1
        That's it - experimental launches were made from an unmodified aircraft, and combat launches will be made from modernized ones. Of course, the MiG’s speed limit when flying with external suspensions is present, but we don’t know how the Iskander is suspended under the MiG’s fuselage.

        When cabling with a radius of 10 km after passing a quarter of the arc of the trajectory (before separation with a rocket) the speed of the aircraft drops slightly. At the same time, at the point of beginning of the cabling, the assembly speed may well exceed 3M.

        This is done to maximize the momentum of the Iskander rocket engine.

        But I agree with a different alignment of heights when performing this maneuver: accelerating the assembly to a speed of + 3M at an altitude of 10 km, jumping along an arc to a separation point to an altitude of 20 km, completing an arc flight at an altitude of 30 km, then descending along an arc to an altitude of 20 km to return to the base airfield.
        1. NN52
          NN52 9 March 2018 20: 48
          +8
          Operator

          Why don't we know?
          We modified the AKU instead of 33, there are no options ,,, the glider remained naturally the original ...
          Therefore, the restriction remains ..

          Everything is visible in the video
          1. Operator
            Operator 9 March 2018 20: 53
            0
            The flight speed of an aircraft with an external suspension of ammunition primarily depends on the design of the suspension - if the ACU is modified, then the flight speed may well increase from 2,83 to 3 M.

            In any case, one must proceed from the declared speed of the Dagger missile: 10M = 3M carrier + 6M rocket + 1M bonus for launching in the stratosphere along the optimal path.
            1. NN52
              NN52 9 March 2018 21: 09
              +9
              Oh ... as I wrote, you are stubborn ...
              According to the rules of peacetime flights, the transition to supersonic sound is prohibited at altitudes of less than 12 km, there is experience ...
              Even at 1750 km / h with full suspension, the plane behaves, as it were, for you, acutely or something, on the deviations of the RUS, I don’t even know how to express myself exactly ...
              And I wrote that the AKU may have been finalized, but the power part of the airframe was left without alterations ... Therefore, the restriction remained ...
              Your theory in the furnace ...
              We need a different theory, the most interesting ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 9 March 2018 21: 32
                0
                There is no need for theories - the Mig-31D flew flippers until 1994, now I use an on-board computer with the appropriate firmware to ensure the stability of high-speed flight with external suspension.
                1. NN52
                  NN52 9 March 2018 21: 45
                  +10
                  Yah?
                  What plane are we talking about? Obviously not about fu 35 ..
                  Even on BM, this unfortunately is not ...
                  Everything is on hand ...
                  And I didn’t finish flying so long ago .... on B /
                  And do not write if you don’t have another theory //
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 9 March 2018 21: 54
                    -1
                    Yeah, I didn’t report your GDP in advance, so the Su-57 doesn’t exist in nature, and also to the heap of the “Dagger”, “Vanguard”, “Status” and “Sarmat” laughing
                    1. NN52
                      NN52 9 March 2018 22: 02
                      +9
                      Well, you give a pancake ...
                      We talked about launching the Dagger with the MiG 31 and no more ...
                      On Su 35, 57 comp with these functions is.
                      But only the dagger is still at 31 ....
                      And why did you put in the GDP here?
                      From your great mind?
                      Go to political topics, they will appreciate you there ...
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 9 March 2018 22: 08
                        -1
                        “Do not tell me what to do, and I will not tell you where to go” (C) - it’s a pity that the black list on VO has been canceled, you are our theorist.
                  2. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 9 March 2018 22: 04
                    +5
                    Two hundred and fiftyYou are this, do not wait. He better not come back. Human being, which claims to be able to fly beyond the limits of NPP, is best not to return.
                    For reference: violating the restrictions of NPP is very harmful to health laughing
  19. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 9 March 2018 22: 57
    +4
    Quote: Operator
    you are our theorist.

    They correctly said that you are very similar to a theorist.
    Listen, real life is not the Popular Mechanics magazine, with all the respect, everything is somewhat more complicated there and it is easier with “subjunctive moods” - no.
    Sometimes it’s worth considering why your interlocutor is so “stubborn”. Maybe he studied the limitations of the right sources
  20. Old26
    Old26 9 March 2018 23: 17
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    A hypersonic ramjet engine using chemical fuel does not exist in nature due to the impossibility of mixture formation in the combustion chamber - see interview with Herbert Efremov.

    Well, the American hypersonic X-43 and X-51 probably had steam engines. What kind of nonsense are you wearing with a smart look ??? Or is there only one design of a gas scramjet ???

    Quote: Operator
    The “Dagger” aviation missile system’s chip is by no means a missile (it’s just the famous Iskander-M with a tail aerodynamic fairing),

    Yeah, and with the same dimensions, his speed was not 6M, but 10, and the range by the wave of the Operator’s hand turned from 500 km in 2000. Just think, only 4 times the range and 3M speed ...
    And do not summarize the speed of the aircraft and the speed of the rocket. This may be at the very beginning of the start, but if the engine cannot develop 10M, then after a dozen or two kilometers it will fall to the one that the engine can develop. In a speech, GDP announced a rocket speed of 10M. No summation of speeds. Do not make up
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 9 March 2018 23: 58
      +4
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: Operator
      Hypersonic ...

      Do you carry nonsense with a smart look? Do not invent

      Old26 Do not mind, I will join: Operatordo not invent
  21. NN52
    NN52 9 March 2018 23: 49
    +8
    Operator,

    I do not seem to be rude to you, talked with you on you, unlike you?

    Do you suffer from a hangover syndrome today? Or have you already taken?
    I feel sorry for the time spent on you today.
    I recommend that you, dear, no longer go into such specific topics, you will receive an answer from me personally, for your disrespect ....
  22. rubin6286
    rubin6286 10 March 2018 00: 31
    +1
    Let’s not fool each other’s heads with numbers M, “dynamic ceiling”, design features of the complex and still try to figure it out and get to the point.

    When striking an AUG with a single Tu-22M3 missile carrier armed with an X-22M aeroballistic missile, it was necessary to approach the target (aircraft carrier) at a distance of 200-300 km and launch. Roughly speaking, it was necessary to enter a circle with a radius of 700-750 km, fly in it for about 300 km and strike. How much time does the air defense order (group of ships) have for its reflection. The faster the plane flies, the less time. Tu-22M3 launched from a height of 10 km at a speed of approximately 1500 km / h. About 0,9 minutes will pass before the machine is detected by the enemy and is guaranteed to be shot down with a probability of 0,95-15. The AUG has this time to repulse the attack, and the aircraft has the same 15 minutes to hit the aircraft carrier. Single Tu-22M3 is not within the power. In a word, an airplane needs to either fly much faster and launch a rocket without entering the war defense zone. A rocket must overcome 300-350 km not in 15 minutes, but much faster. Performing training flights, I came to the conclusion that the new rocket should be hypersonic. Accelerated by ramjet in dense layers of the atmosphere (at an altitude of about 10 thousand meters) to 6M or more, it would give a chance of hitting the target. Without going into details, I imagined that the rocket did not need an aeroballistic trajectory at all. It could be replaced by a horizontal trajectory with a gentle decrease. At an altitude of approximately 400-500 m, a warhead (cruise missile) should have separated from the hypersonic stage. This cruise missile should have, following an altitude of not more than 40 meters from the water surface, have such a guidance system that allows it to “capture” the target, classify it and hit with a probability of 0,8 - 0,9. This problem has not yet been resolved.

    The MiG-31 does not need to be “accelerated” to 3M, 1,8M is enough, but launch on the target should be carried out from a distance of about 1200-1500 km. "Dagger" allows this. At least the crew has a chance to return "home". As for ballistics, the trajectories of the X-22M and the new missile are similar and there is a chance of a nuclear warhead with a nuclear charge.
    1. NN52
      NN52 10 March 2018 01: 00
      +9
      rubin6286

      Why is the speed 1,8 M? Do you know the speed of direct-flow switching?
      And if you start up from a distance of 1200-1500 at a speed of 1,8 or God forbid, as one wrote here at 3M, imagine the radius of a turn (turn) home? With such a turn, he will fly into the coverage area of ​​air defense and aviation of the AUG ...
      The crew will have no chance ... to return home ... but I really want to ...
      And the question to you about training flights ????
  23. Old26
    Old26 10 March 2018 11: 16
    0
    Quote: rubin6286
    Let’s not fool each other’s heads with numbers M, “dynamic ceiling”, design features of the complex and still try to figure it out and get to the point.

    Comrade, and without numbers it will be the usual boltology, not reasoned. Alas, you can’t do without numbers

    Quote: rubin6286
    When striking an AUG with a single Tu-22M3 missile carrier armed with an X-22M aeroballistic missile, it was necessary to approach the target (aircraft carrier) at a distance of 200-300 km and launch.

    To begin with, the X-22M missile is not aeroballistic. She is winged. An aeroballistic missile is roughly a ballistic missile suspended from an airplane. With a distance more or less you're right. It all depends on the capabilities of the radar on the plane. Right now, I don’t remember the launch range, it seems 350 km, but let it be the figure that you voiced, i.e. 300 km

    Quote: rubin6286
    Roughly speaking, it was necessary to enter a circle with a radius of 700-750 km, fly in it for about 300 km and strike.

    No, if you walk a distance of about 300 km in this circle, then you will be over the aircraft carrier. No, start immediately at the intersection of this line.

    Quote: rubin6286
    How much time does the air defense order (group of ships) have for its reflection.

    I think they will meet him when approaching this milestone. Do not forget that the aircraft carrier has 4 Hawks-type AWACS on board. Their patrol area is approximately 400 km from the aircraft carrier. Radar detection range is about 600 km on the latest versions of this aircraft. That is, it will be spotted for about 1 thousand kilometers from the AUG. Well, even if the detection range is 400-450, as on old versions. In any case, the distance to the aircraft carrier will be about 800 km. Plus, there are 1-2 fighter patrol pairs in the air.

    Quote: rubin6286
    Tu-22M3 launched from a height of 10 km at a speed of approximately 1500 km / h. About 0,9 minutes will pass before the machine is detected by the enemy and is guaranteed to be shot down with a probability of 0,95-15.

    Unfortunately, you went on a fortune-telling on "coffee grounds". the allowed dumping speed of the X-22 from the EMNIP bomber is 0,9M. That is, it is subsonic. She can be shot down even before she crosses this circle, with a radius of 300 km. It all depends on where the fighter patrol couples are at that time.

    Quote: rubin6286
    Single Tu-22M3 is not within the power. In a word, an airplane needs to either fly much faster and launch a rocket without entering the war defense zone. A rocket must overcome 300-350 km not in 15 minutes, but much faster.

    This is not only beyond the power of a solitary TU, but also from aircraft of a pair of regiments. In Soviet times, an outfit for the destruction of an aircraft carrier, EMNIP in the air division of bombers. Moreover. Do not think that hitting one rocket will destroy the aircraft carrier. At one time, Admiral Kapitanets in his book cited data that for guaranteed defeat of an aircraft carrier, 8-9 missiles of the X-22 or Granite type were required, and 10-12 for destruction. The X-22 missile will cover a distance of 300 km in about 7,5 minutes.

    Quote: rubin6286
    Performing training flights, I came to the conclusion that the new rocket should be hypersonic. Accelerated by ramjet in dense layers of the atmosphere (at an altitude of about 10 thousand meters) to 6M or more, it would give a chance of hitting the target.

    But can a (hypersonic) rocket fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed of 6M. Did you ask yourself this question? Will there already be plasma formation? Will it burn to hell at such speeds in dense layers .... ???

    Quote: rubin6286
    At an altitude of approximately 400-500 m, a warhead (cruise missile) should have separated from the hypersonic stage. This cruise missile should have, following an altitude of not more than 40 meters from the water surface, have such a guidance system that allows it to “capture” the target, classify it and hit with a probability of 0,8 - 0,9. This problem has not yet been resolved.

    I repeat the question. And what will happen to the hypersonic element of this system at heights of 400-500 m, and even more so at heights of 40 meters. In how many seconds will it turn into a red-hot cloud of debris?

    Quote: rubin6286
    The MiG-31 does not need to be “accelerated” to 3M, 1,8M is enough, but launch on the target should be carried out from a distance of about 1200-1500 km. "Dagger" allows this. At least the crew has a chance to return "home". As for ballistics, the trajectories of the X-22M and the new missile are similar and there is a chance of a nuclear warhead with a nuclear charge.

    A dagger can also be launched from a distance of 2000 km, if it really has such a range. But where does she get? Target designation who will give? How and at what speed can the same radar missile guidance system begin to work. At a speed of 10M, this is impossible, especially in dense layers of the atmosphere due to the rocket going in a plasma cloud.
    If this is actually an aeroballistic, and not a winged hypersonic missile, then the president was framed very, very seriously. We say that all the accusations against us about the violation of treaties are fictitious and invented by the enemy, then we ourselves claim a violation
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 10 March 2018 19: 48
      0
      Dear Old 26.
      Formally, the Soviet anti-ship missile X-22M is a supersonic winged. Its further development is the Russian X-32 missile. In fact, both of these samples belong to aeroballistic missiles, which, after launch, climb to a height of more than 20 thousand meters, fly on it until the remote control is turned off and then dive to the target at hypersonic speed. The aeroballistic rocket of the modern Dagger complex behaves similarly.
      Since you and I do not decide anything, with or without numbers, our debate will still be "chatter" and is of interest only from the point of view of the exchange of experience and information.
      It seems to me that I did not quite express myself in my comment. An aircraft carrier is not in the center of a circle with a radius of 700-750 km, on an arc of a circle of this radius. AUG detects a plane at a distance of 700-750 km from an aircraft carrier. We are met by an "air patrol" - 2 aircraft F-14 "Tomket" or F-18 "Hornet". They go “on the forehead”, diverge effectively and in the headphones I hear: “Pilot is broken! Sparrow missiles buzzing! ". Here is the leading pair already nearby, makes a half-turn and shows me them. I don’t care who brought the “s” - “Hokai”, “Sentry” or “Poseidon”. They are already here and will not give a sudden hit, and far away, “their own” will not reach. That means they will accompany until I go out on the firing range (these 300-350 km) or go off course. Like this….
      I know the requirements of the Combat Charter and instructions, I don’t dispute them, I wrote what I did ... ..
      From personal experience, I concluded that what should be a promising missile, so that the AUG could hit a single aircraft. In my opinion, this should be a hypersonic missile. I will not argue about its design and the problems that will arise during its creation. What to make, how to manage, what to do with highly ionized plasma - let specialists do it. The aircraft carrier needs to be beaten not to the deck "from above", but to the side. That is why the warhead of a new rocket after separation from the hypersonic stage must go at low altitude and hypersound is no longer needed here.
      "Dagger" allows you to strike without entering the air defense zone of the warrant. The crew has a chance to return "home". If a cruise missile with poison and an almost unlimited flight range is not a bluff, then its use against AUG seems more appropriate.
      As for the arms limitation treaties with the United States, there is an understanding that sooner or later they will be revised.
      1. NN52
        NN52 10 March 2018 23: 50
        +7
        rubin6286 /

        You did not answer my yesterday's question about training flights ...
        Today I realized you are chopping computer toys ...
        Your text is below ...

        It seems to me that I did not quite express myself in my comment. An aircraft carrier is not in the center of a circle with a radius of 700-750 km, on an arc of a circle of this radius. AUG detects a plane at a distance of 700-750 km from an aircraft carrier. We are met by an "air patrol" - 2 aircraft F-14 "Tomket" or F-18 "Hornet". They go “on the forehead”, diverge effectively and in the headphones I hear: “Pilot is broken! Sparrow missiles buzzing! ". Here is the leading pair already nearby, makes a half-turn and shows me them. I don’t care who brought the “s” - “Hokai”, “Sentry” or “Poseidon”. They are already here and will not give a sudden hit, and far away, “their own” will not reach. That means they will accompany until I go out on the firing range (these 300-350 km) or go off course. Like this….

        And what can be personal experience? What are you talking about?
        How many aircraft carriers have you personally flunked aboard? In the simulator?
        And then we are surprised that it’s such nonsense on VO ....
        1. rubin6286
          rubin6286 11 March 2018 08: 49
          +1
          Dear friend!

          I will disappoint you. I’ve been a test engineer in the past. I’m 66 years old now and I don’t “crash” into a flight simulator. What are training flights, I suggest you think of it yourself and repeat what I wrote about what I did myself .... Experience appears where the task is performed repeatedly.
  24. Old26
    Old26 10 March 2018 20: 32
    0
    Quote: rubin6286
    Formally, the Soviet anti-ship missile X-22M is a supersonic winged. Its further development is the Russian X-32 missile. In fact, both of these samples belong to aeroballistic missiles, which, after launch, climb to a height of more than 20 thousand meters, fly on it until the remote control is turned off and then dive to the target at hypersonic speed. The aeroballistic rocket of the modern Dagger complex behaves similarly ..

    Kamrad! do not invent entities more than necessary. Products X-22 and X-32 were and are cruise missiles. The fact that they rise to a certain height - this means only one thing. The missile goes to the target along a low-altitude or high-altitude trajectory. Moreover, the EMNIP marching height of X-22 is 14 km, and not more than 20. Aeroballistic has a slightly different profile. The same ballistic trajectory, but in the air. Up to the heights of the EMNIP about 40 km (at X-15). When diving from heights, the speed will decrease due to braking in dense layers.

    What is the “Dagger" does not know yet. One or two phrases said by the president does not give such an opportunity. No one knows if this is an aeroballistic missile or a winged hypersonic missile with a solid fuel accelerator.
    If it is aeroballistic, then the drafters of the report very high-quality framed the President. There is a ban on BRVZ with a range of more than 600 km. We always prove to the Americans that we comply with all the agreements here too. We create a rocket that does not fit into the contract.

    Quote: rubin6286
    Since we do not decide anything, with or without numbers, our debate will still be “chatter” and is of interest only from the point of view of the exchange of experience and information ..

    Since there is some interest, then it’s not chatter. A exchange of experience and knowledge

    Quote: rubin6286
    It seems to me that I did not quite express myself in my comment. An aircraft carrier is not in the center of a circle with a radius of 700-750 km, on an arc of a circle of this radius. AUG detects a plane at a distance of 700-750 km from an aircraft carrier. We are met by an "air patrol" - 2 aircraft F-14 "Tomket" or F-18 "Hornet". They go “on the forehead”, diverge effectively and in the headphones I hear: “Pilot is broken! Sparrow missiles buzzing! ". Here is the leading pair already nearby, makes a half-turn and shows me them. I don’t care who brought the “s” - “Hokai”, “Sentry” or “Poseidon”. They are already here and will not give a sudden hit, and far away, “their own” will not reach. That means they will accompany until I go out on the firing range (these 300-350 km) or go off course. Like this….

    I think that much further. But that is not the point. If you have these "fools" on the suspension, then no one will especially accompany you, especially if military operations are already underway or everything goes to this

    Quote: rubin6286
    single plane. In my opinion, this should be a hypersonic missile. I will not argue about its design and the problems that will arise during its creation. What to make, how to manage, what to do with highly ionized plasma - let specialists do it. The aircraft carrier needs to be beaten not to the deck "from above", but to the side. That is why the warhead of a new rocket after separation from the hypersonic stage must go at low altitude and hypersound is no longer needed here.
    "Dagger" allows you to strike without entering the air defense zone of the warrant. The crew has a chance to return "home". If a cruise missile with poison and an almost unlimited flight range is not a bluff, then its use against AUG seems more appropriate.
    As for the arms limitation treaties with the United States, there is an understanding that sooner or later they will be revised.


    Quote: rubin6286
    From personal experience, I concluded that what should be a promising missile, so that the AUG could hit a single aircraft. In my opinion, this should be a hypersonic missile. I will not argue about its design and the problems that will arise during its creation. What to make, how to manage, what to do with highly ionized plasma - let specialists do it. .

    Yes, no one says it should not be hypersonic. The design issue is also a second matter. The main thing is target designation for such a rocket. If your opponent knows that you have a missile with a range of 1000 km, and the radar allows you to fix an aircraft carrier, then you are unlikely to be allowed to go a distance when the radar detects a target and captures it. Shooting just like that for 2000 km in the "white light" - well, I don’t know. Whatever this missile has, there will be no range of 1000 km

    Quote: rubin6286
    The aircraft carrier needs to be beaten not to the deck "from above", but to the side. That is why the warhead of a new rocket after separation from the hypersonic stage must go at low altitude and hypersound is no longer needed here.

    Yes, but the compartment will not be very far from the aircraft carrier. Since this will most likely be a non-motorized flight.

    Quote: rubin6286
    "Dagger" allows you to strike without entering the air defense zone of the warrant. The crew has a chance to return "home". If a cruise missile with poison and an almost unlimited flight range is not a bluff, then its use against AUG seems more appropriate ..

    Without entering the air defense zone - this is not discussed. The question is again target designation.
    KR with Poison - given that it is subsonic - will be easy prey
    1. Operator
      Operator 10 March 2018 21: 18
      0
      Quote: Old26
      There is a ban on BRVZ with a range of more than 600 km

      The ban long ago rested in the Bose:

      “The strategic arms reduction agreement signed between Russia and the United States in Prague in 2010 does not prohibit the production, testing and deployment of strategic missile defense systems. Moreover, the current strategic nuclear weapons treaty does not provide for counting strategic missile defense systems, unlike land-based ballistic missiles and ICBMs. Only heavy bombers can be counted, on which they can be deployed, while a deployed heavy bomber equipped even with several BRVZ is counted as just one carrier. For each deployed heavy bomber, regardless of the actual load, only one nuclear warhead is counted, while the actual BRVZ on it can carry up to 10–20 nuclear warheads. "
      https://topwar.ru/65707-vozdushnyy-start-mbr-40-l
      et-spustya.html

      And most importantly, the MiG-31 is not a strategic bomber and is not taken into account in any way among the carriers limited by the current Strategic Offensive Arms Treaty.

      "Such things" (C) laughing
    2. rubin6286
      rubin6286 11 March 2018 09: 54
      0
      I agree with you in many ways.

      Aircraft and cruise missiles flying in the altitude range from 100 m to 25 thousand meters, the AUG detects at a distance of about 700 km and has effective air defense systems for this. Therefore, for the destruction of the AUG by the X-22 and X-15 missiles, the planes had to enter the air defense zone of the ships and the task could be completed only with their massive use. So, in the tactics of combat use, there were provisions on the “wave strike”, “massive” and “combined” strike, relevant at the present time.

      It seems to me that in modern conditions, for the fight against AUGs, the aircraft should have a modern avionics and high-precision weapon system that can hit ground and sea targets covered by modern air defense and missile defense systems at a range of about 1200-1300 km with missile speeds of 4-5M. Then, probably, a single machine can hit the target.

      It is difficult for me to judge the characteristics and design features of such missiles, because I flew in the late 80s, when the X-22 and X-15 were also no longer considered a miracle of technology. Almost 30 years have passed, and science, as they say, does not stand still.

      I do not know the capabilities of the new missile control system and its guidance on the target. The X-22M had an autonomous passive homing radar (APRLGSN), coupled with the GLONASS system. After the launch, the pilot could no longer adjust the flight of the rocket. It seems to me that this is correct. The training launches showed that even when active interference was set up, the missile descended in a given area and if we take into account that in real conditions it was a question of using nuclear weapons, the target (warrant) could be seriously damaged if not destroyed.

      TV reported the Dagger as an aeroballistic missile. If we compare the dimensions of the carriers, then the TU-22M3 is slightly larger than the MiG-31, and the X-22M itself with a rocket engine when firing at a range of about 300 km weighs about 6 tons in running order and has a length of 11,6 meters. "Carcass" took her only one. It seems to me that the Dagger rocket is somewhat smaller.

      I repeat again, if we want to hit an aircraft carrier in the movement of a warhead with a usual charge, then the aeroballistic trajectory is not suitable here. In my opinion, it should be similar to the attack of a single torpedo bomber during World War II - from extremely low altitudes, and in modern conditions - secretly (without entering the carrier in the air defense zone of the warrant), quickly (due to hypersound) and in the final section of the trajectory with high accuracy (due to the low altitude of the warhead and an effective control system).

      That is what I wanted to say. On this polemic I stop. Thank you for your attention and understanding. Let's see what happens next in this “happy” country.
  25. Old26
    Old26 10 March 2018 22: 48
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    The ban long ago rested in the Bose:

    The fact that the term of the protocol has expired does not mean that this prohibition rested in the Bose. Do not tell me why then this basing option is still not applied? Or why are mobile or stationary launchers at the bottom not used? Or why not use BR on surface ships? By your logic, everything has long been completed. However, for some reason, both we and the Americans adhere to those restrictions that seem to have been completed. But the whole point is that all this continues to operate.
    On 15A18M, despite the fact that the restrictions were already in effect, 4 seats at the breeding stage were brought into such a state that BB could not be put in these places.
    So, alas, but everything is respected. And these parameters pass from one contract to another ...

    Quote: Operator
    "The START Treaty concluded between Russia and the United States in 2010 in Prague does not contain a ban on the production, testing and deployment of BRVZ ..

    And what, in each agreement should repeat all those articles that were in the previous ones? There are agreed definitions and conventions. A huge number of parameters are not repeated. For example, do you know that in new SLBMs the weight of warheads should not exceed 40% of the weight cast? Once it was published, but these parameters are saved

    Quote: Operator
    Moreover, the current strategic offensive arms treaty does not provide for counting BRVZ unlike SLBMs and land-based ICBMs. Only heavy bombers on which they can be placed are eligible for credit. .

    Of course it does not, since they are prohibited. And no NOT ONE BOMBERS which is now able to carry the BRVZ. If the bombers can carry, then only the ALCM. And the calculations are carried out according to the system 1 plane - 1 warhead.

    Quote: Operator
    At the same time, a deployed heavy bomber equipped even with several BRVZ is counted as only one carrier. For each deployed heavy bomber, regardless of the actual load, only one nuclear warhead is counted, while the actual BRVZ located on it can carry up to 10–20 nuclear warheads in total. "

    The Americans, like us NO ROCKET OF THIS CLASS. NO FROM THE WORDS AT ALL.
    And on bombers just There is no need to cling missiles BRVZ.
    In the B-52, a rotary launcher in the bomb bay can only receive 6 KVVZ. On underwing pylons BRVZ did not cling and do not cling. So that FORGET ABOUT BRVZ. They are not and with a range of over 600 km they are prohibited

    Quote: Operator
    And most importantly, the MiG-31 is not a strategic bomber and is not taken into account in any way among the carriers limited by the current Strategic Offensive Arms Treaty.

    All contracts speak of one thing. The prohibition of such missiles on carriers other than bombers. And first of all, they will consider the flight range, and only secondarily - the carrier
  26. Lucy
    Lucy 11 March 2018 02: 41
    0
    Quote: rubin6286
    When striking an AUG with a single Tu-22M3 missile carrier


    You can, of course, and so, only you need to go from the concept of probability, to the definition of a random variable (0 integer x @ tenths), and not to disable an aircraft carrier, but possibly hit X-22. In aviation, as applied to a random variable, calculations were applied, if possible, hit the N-th number of shells when firing from GS-23 at ADA, flying at an altitude of 25-30 km.
    When striking when the MFR was on the Northern Fleet, as in the textbook (NBDA), the reconnaissance and reconnaissance group - target detection (in the intended area) included 2 Tu-22m3 (they also launched missile launchers), and the strike was delivered (planned) by the squad dissimilar forces ((nuclear submarines, NK and MRA (Tu-22m3)), from different directions, and the difference in t is not more than 20 '. And to pull P = 0.7, they were suspended on Tu-22 (painted on maps, written in BR) 3 X-22.

    Specialists in Zhukovsky’s curves, I didn’t understand how Putin’s dagger works on a moving target, at such speeds, temperatures, without a wing, rudders? X-22 - KR and on it there is an airborne radar, which all the same, after releasing to a certain point, is driven by the PNA-D.
  27. Viktor Petrov
    Viktor Petrov 12 March 2018 17: 56
    0
    Maybe there is a more interesting goal, for example, ships with the Aegis system? When retaliating, they will pose a great danger.
  28. vfvlasov
    vfvlasov 29 June 2018 21: 28
    0
    The range of 2000 km, ..... it’s our developers who are very bent, wishful thinking. These are our "specialists and bureaucrats" that can be easily fooled, very illiterate, and foreign specialists cannot be fooled. The scheme is primitive. The aircraft accelerates to 3000 km per hour, to an altitude of 22-25 km. Then he launches the dagger up, to an altitude of 50-60 km, the first stage of the rocket turns on, then the rocket from above in the second stage descends downward to 3 km per second. But in this case, its range will be only 250 km !!! ???? Well 300 km. But not 2000 km. Want to trick enemies? We think that there are fools? There are no fools! Such feints can be very expensive for the homeland. We hope for such decent rocket manufacturers and will be destroyed in a conflict. There are technologies that allow you to make the speed of missiles 5 km per second, 10 km per second. But developers want to capitalize on their old inefficient technologies. Greed dulls and makes developers not patriots!