Military Review

Wing infantry armor (part 3)

50



In the second half of the 70s, it was possible to accumulate some experience in operating combat assault vehicles. Strengths of the landing "aluminum" tanks”Were considered: relatively light weight, which made it possible to use landing platforms and dome systems with a carrying capacity of up to 9500 kg for parachuting, good mobility and cross-country ability on soft soils. At the same time, it was quite obvious that the security and armament of the BMD-1 was very far from ideal. This was especially pronounced after the introduction of the "limited contingent" in Afghanistan.

At the beginning of the 80-x in the Volgograd Tractor Plant design bureau began the design of an airborne assault vehicle, with the 30-mm automatic cannon and launcher of the Fagot and Konkurs ATGMs. At the same time, in order to save time and financial resources that were required for launching a new car into the series, which received the designation BMD-2 after being put into service, it was decided to use the body and aggregates of the existing BMD-1. The first vehicles arrived for military tests in the 1984 year, and a year later the BMD-2 was put into service.

Wing infantry armor (part 3)

BMD-2


The main innovation was the single-seat turret with an 30-mm automatic cannon and an 7,62-mm PKT machine gun paired with it. The 2А42 cannon and the 2E36 armament stabilizer were originally developed for the army BMP-2 and were subsequently adapted for use on the new assault landing vehicle. The two-plane stabilizer gives the chance of conducting aim shooting during the movement of the car. Compared with the 73-mm smooth-bore gun mounted on the BMD-1, the effectiveness of the BMD-2 weapons has increased significantly. Another difference between the serial BMD-2 and BMD-1 was the refusal of the left machine gun course.

The automatic 30-mm gun with a variable rate of fire (200-300 rds / min or 550 rds / min) could be successfully used not only to combat tank-dangerous manpower and to defeat lightly armored vehicles at a distance of 4000 m, but also to fire low-altitude subsonic air targets flying at heights up to 2000 m and slant range to 2500 m. The cannon’s ammunition (300 shells) includes armor-piercing tracer (BT), fragmentation tracer (OT) and fragmentation-incendiary (OZ) projectiles. To feed the gun, two separate ribbons are used, consisting of several separate links. The capacity of the tape with BT shells - 100 shots, with OT and OZ - 200 shots. The gun has a mechanism that allows you to move from one type of ammunition to another. Reloading the gun is possible manually or using a pyrotechnic device. Vertical guidance angles: −6 ... + 60, which allows not only to fire at air targets, but also to fire on the upper floors of buildings and mountain slopes.


30-mm gun 2А42 and projectiles to it


The 30 armor-piercing tracer 3UBR6 400 g projectile has an initial speed of 970 m / s, and at a distance of 200 m normal can penetrate 35 mm armor, at a distance of 1000 m armor penetration - 18 mm. The 3UOF8 389 g missile projectile contains 49 g of explosive and has a continuous area of ​​damage with a radius of 2 m.



Just like the BMD-1, the new BMD-2 received a complex of anti-tank weapons 9K111, which is designed to hit armored vehicles moving at speeds up to 60 km / h, fixed firing points, as well as frozen or slow-flying helicopters at distances up to 4000 The BMD-2 has two 9М111-2 missiles and one 9М113 rocket. In the combat position, the launcher with the hardware unit is mounted on the bracket to the right of the hatch of the gunner operator. For firing from weaponsinstalled in the tower BMD-2, uses a combined sight with day and night channels BOD-1-42 (with 1986, BOD-2-42) and a day-anti-aircraft sight ROM-8. Also inside the vehicle can be transported MANPADS "Strela-3" or "Needle-1".



Compared to the BMD-1, the machine armed with the 30-mm gun became heavier by about 1 tons, which, however, did not affect the level of mobility. Security and mobility remained the same as on the BMD-1 of the last serial modification. Due to the redistribution of duties and changes in the internal layout, the crew size was reduced to two people, and the number of paratroopers transported inside the corps is 5 people. The P-123M tube radio was replaced with a P-173 semiconductor. By analogy with the BMD-1K, a BMD-2K commander machine was created, equipped with radio stations P-173, a gas-powered unit AB-0,5-3-П / 30, and a gyropump of the GPK-59. To expand the free space inside the car, the transportation of ATGN in the BMD-2K is not provided.



For the release of BMD-2, regular airborne means are used, which were previously tested on BMD-1. Although the armor of the car did not become thicker and, just like on the BMD-1, it provided protection against bullets of a large-caliber machine gun in a frontal projection, and the board held bullets of rifle caliber, the combat effectiveness of the BMD-2 increased 1,5-1,8 times. The probability of destruction of typical tank-dangerous targets, such as: a grenade launcher in a trench or the calculation of anti-tank systems, has more than doubled. The vulnerability of the machine decreased due to the fact that 30-mm projectiles with combat damage, as a rule, did not detonate, even if the cumulative jet hit the combat pack. In this case, small-caliber shells are safe enough and in most cases do not transmit detonation from one to another. On the contrary, the explosion of one 73-mm projectile on the BMD-1 led to the detonation of the entire ammunition with 100% probability of death of the vehicle and crew. Also due to the transition to resistant to powerful shaking 30-mm ammunition, losses were reduced during explosions on mines. A small amount of BMD-2 was sent to Afghanistan for combat testing. The aluminum “landing tanks” took an active part in two Chechen campaigns, were involved in a number of peacekeeping operations in the conflict with Georgia in 2008. In eastern Ukraine, BMD-2 was used by the opposing sides.



Machines devoid of stroke as a result of breakdowns or combat damage were often buried in the ground along the turret and used as fixed fire points on the opposition line. In the armed forces of the DPR there was at least one “gantrak”, created by installing BMD-2 with a faulty engine in the body of an armored KamAZ.

In the course of military operations in the post-Soviet space, BMD-2, with proper use, proved to be positive. Often, thanks to the high mobility and skill of the driver, it was possible to avoid defeating an RPG and even an ATGM. Reliability and maintainability of the machine were at a fairly high level, but during long-term operation in the area of ​​the “counter-terrorist operation” it turned out that the resource of some extremely lightweight components and assemblies is less than that of the army BMP-2.

Production of BMD-2 was carried out in Volgograd until the collapse of the USSR. According to The Military Balance 2016, there were about 2016 BMD-1000 in the RF Armed Forces as of 2 year. However, the number of serviceable, combat-ready machines may be less in 2-2,5.


BMD-2M


In 2012, the decision to upgrade the 200 BMD-2 to the BMD-2M level was announced. On the upgraded machines, an advanced weapon stabilizer 2E36-6 and an all-day fire control system with automatic target tracking are installed. The armament introduced the anti-tank complex "Kornet", which allows firing at tanks and low-altitude air targets at a distance of 6 km. In the modernized car, the modern radio station P-168-25-2 appeared. As of 2016 year, about 50 overhauled and upgraded BMD-2М were delivered to the troops.

Almost simultaneously with the start of work on the BMD-2, the design of the next-generation airborne combat vehicle started. When creating the BMD-3, the experience of combat use and operation of existing airborne assault vehicles in the troops, trends in the development of light armored vehicles and weapon upgrades were taken into account. First of all, the task was to increase the security of the crew and the landing force, while maintaining mobility and maneuverability at the BMD-1 level. In addition, the BMD-1 and the BMD-2 created on its base were rightly criticized for the small number of paratroopers transported inside the vehicle and the extreme constraint of their deployment. The experience of using BMD-2 in combat operations in Afghanistan has shown that for more effective use of weapons on an airborne combat vehicle, it is advisable to have a double turret in which not only the gunner-operator, but also the commander of the vehicle should be placed. Since in 80, the main military transport aircraft was Il-76, surpassing the An-12 carrying capacity, and the heavy An-124 was also mass-produced, an increase in the mass of the promising airborne assault vehicle to 15 tons was considered acceptable. As it was impossible to realize all this, modernizing the BMD-2 further, it was impossible in the middle of the 80s in the design bureau of the Volgograd Tractor Plant under the direction of the chief designer A.V. Shabalina created a new airborne combat vehicle, which, after testing and refinement, was put into service in the 1990 year.

Increasing the size of the hull allowed to place a double turret with a 30-mm 2-42 gun on the car. The ammunition of the gun consists of 500 shells, equipped with combat-ready ribbons and another 360 shots are placed inside the machine. 7,62-mm PKT machine gun is paired with a gun. Compared to the BMD-2, the body of the new machine has become longer on the 600 mm and wider on the 584 mm. In addition to increasing the internal volume, the machine increased stability when firing from a cannon, which had a positive effect on the accuracy of firing. The gun is stabilized in two planes and can conduct aimed shooting on the go. The gunner-operator has three prism surveillance devices TNPO-170А. The TNPT-1 device is intended for searching the target and viewing with large angles in the vertical and horizontal planes. When firing, the gunner uses a Binocular periscopic combined sight BPK-2-42. The day branch of this device has a field of view 10 ° with a magnification of x6, at the night branch these figures are 6,6 ° and x5,5. Commander of the machine for battlefield surveillance and target search uses the combined device TKN-3MB two prism unit TNPO-170A, periscope TNPT-1 and monocular periscope day sight 1PZ-3 with increases 1,2-4 times range and field of view, 49-14 ° . To combat tanks, the BMD-3 is equipped with the 9P135M ATGM and four “Competition” ATGM. In the back of the tower installed mortars system of setting the smoke screen 902В "Cloud".


BMD-3


The mass of the machine in a combat position reaches 13,2 tons. Like on airborne machines of the previous generation, the BMD-3 hull is made of light alloys, and the tower is borrowed from the BMP-2. The security of the machine has increased slightly, the front armor of the BMD-3 is capable of holding 14,5-mm KPVT machine gun bullets. The body of the machine is sealed, thereby providing protection against weapons of mass destruction. Creating an overpressure and cleaning the air inside the machine takes place using a filtering unit.

The 5,45-mm RPX-74 machine gun is placed in the frontal section to the right of the driver's seat in the ball mount, and the left-hand 30-mm AGS-17 grenade launcher. Thanks to the mounted flight trajectory of 30-mm fragmentation grenades, automatic fire from AGS-17 can hit targets behind cover that are inaccessible to other weapons mounted on the BMP-3. Shooting from the course machine gun and grenade launcher in the direction of movement are paratroopers. If necessary, the RPKS-74 light machine gun can be dismantled from the ball mount and used individually. In the sides of the car there are two embrasures, covered with armored gates, intended for firing from personal assault weapons. The BMD-3 crew consists of three people, inside the car there are places for five paratroopers. Chairs of crew members and troops to reduce the effects of explosions on mines are provided with shock absorption and are attached not to the floor, but to the roof of the hull.

Despite the increased mass, the BMD-3 mobility is even higher than that of the BMD-2. 2B-06-2 diesel engine with 450 horsepower accelerates the car on the highway to 70 km / h. Speed ​​afloat - 10 km / h. The machine overcomes the rise of the slope to 35 °, a vertical wall up to 0,8 m, a moat width up to 2 m.



Due to the ability to float on the sea when the waves are up to 3, the BMD-3 points can be landed from the landing craft into the water and in the same way be loaded back onto the ships. Especially for BMD-3, a new strap-up parachute landing system PBS-950 has been created. It has a small mass (about 1500 kg), high reliability, easy to operate and allows you to parachute personnel in combat vehicles.



Serial production of BMD-3 began at the Volgograd Tractor Plant (VgTZ) at the beginning of 1990. In total, taking into account the experimental and pre-production copies intended for military trials, 1997 machines were built before 143. The termination of the release of BMD-3 was due to the insolvency of the customer. Although the specialists of the plant design bureau, in cooperation with allied specialists and with the participation of the relevant institute of the Ministry of Defense, worked to create an improved version of the BMD-3М and a number of special-purpose machines, it was not possible to complete the process in full. In December 2002, the Volgograd Tractor Plant was split into separate companies at 4. In 2005, the Volgograd Tractor Works was declared bankrupt by the decision of the Arbitration Court of the Volgograd Region. According to the information provided in the The Military Balance 2016 directory, two years ago, the Russian armed forces had 10 BMD-3. According to the same source, a certain amount of BMD-3 is in service in Angola.

On the basis of BMD-3 created a number of special purpose machines. Perhaps the most famous and interesting was the self-propelled 125-mm anti-tank gun 2C25 "Sprut-SD". The appearance of this self-propelled gun is associated with the increased security of the frontal projection of the tanks of the potential enemy and their equipment with dynamic protection. Experts predicted that the effectiveness of guided anti-tank missiles in the event of a massive introduction of optical-electronic countermeasures and complexes of active protection of tanks may sharply decrease. In addition, the cost of each new generation of ATGM increased 5-8 times. Amphibious units operating in isolation from the main forces required a highly mobile armored artillery, capable of fighting modern tanks at all combat distances and destroying enemy field fortifications.

The creation of the new installation began in the 1985 year, using the results obtained in the design of pilot light tanks armed with 100-125-mm caliber guns. The chassis is the BMD-3 base, elongated by two rollers, with a hydropneumatic chassis of a new design that can change the ground clearance of the Sprut within a few seconds, and the suspension design gives the gun a high smoothness and throughput.


2C25 "Sprut-SD"


Landing self-propelled gun has a classic tank layout. In front of the vehicle there is a control compartment with a driver’s workplace, followed by a fighting compartment with a gun turret, in which the commander and gunner are located, the engine compartment in the rear part. When making a march, the gunner is to the left of the driver, and the commander is to the right.

Each crew member has individual surveillance devices that operate in the "day-night" mode. A new fire control system is installed on the machine, which includes the gunner’s sighting system, a commander’s combined sight combined with a laser rangefinder, and a two-line stabilized kit for targeting anti-tank guided missiles. The fire control system of the gun commander provides all-round observation of the terrain, search for targets and issuing target designation to the gunner. Sensors are mounted on the outer side of the tower, providing automatic input of corrections to the ballistic computer when firing.



The 125-mm 2-75 smooth-bore gun mounted on the Sprut-SD was based on the 2-46 tank gun used to arm the main battle tanks: the T-72, T-80 and T-90. The gun is stabilized in two planes and capable of firing any type of tank ammunition caliber 125 mm, with separate-sleeve loading. Since the self-propelled chassis is much lighter than the tank, a new recoil device was installed to compensate for recoil when fired. This made it possible to abandon the use of muzzle brakes. A new ejector and a thermo-insulating jacket are installed on the gun. The use of a conveyor-type automatic loader located behind the tower made it possible to abandon the loader and increased the rate of fire of the gun to 7 rds / min. The 22 shot, fully ready for use, is placed in the machine’s combat pack. In addition to the armor-piercing and high-explosive fragmentation shells, the ammunition includes anti-tank missiles 9М119М Invar-M, launched through the barrel. Laser-guided anti-tank guided missiles are capable of striking enemy tanks at a distance of up to 5000 meters. Invar-M anti-tank penetration systems - 800 mm of homogeneous armor after overcoming dynamic protection. The characteristics of anti-tank systems with an average flight speed of a laser-controlled rocket — more than 280 m / s — allow it to be used to combat airborne targets. Vertical gun pointing angles: from -5 to + 15 °. 7,62-mm PKT machine gun - 2000 ammunition ammunition is paired with a gun. At the rear of the tower, 8 mortars of the 902 B “Smoke” smoke screen installation system are installed.

The body and turret of an artillery installation are made of aluminum armor alloy. It is possible to enhance the protection of the frontal part of the steel plates. After that, the armor is capable of holding 14,5-mm armor-piercing bullets. The side armor protects against rifle bullets and light splinters.

High specific power of the engine in combination with a hydropneumatic suspension and low specific pressure on the ground provide the CAO good mobility. The 18 t weighing machine, equipped with an 2В-06-2С engine with 510 hp power, accelerates on the highway to 70 km / h. The machine is able to move along the country road at speeds up to 45 km / h, afloat speed 9 km / h. Cruising on the highway to 500 km, on the country road - 350 km. Self-propelled gun capable of lifting in 35 °, wall height 0,8 m and moat width 2,5 m.



Since the Octopus turned out to be heavier than the BMD-3, they developed a new landing system for self-propelled guns. Initially it was planned to use the PNNUMX parachute jet, created using elements of the soft landing system of the Soyuz-type descent capsule. However, the creation of this system coincided with the collapse of the USSR and the cessation of funding. In 260, as an alternative, they approved the development of a multi-domed parachute system with air depreciation, maximally unified in terms of operating principles, components and components with PBS-1994 BMD-950 serial landing equipment. The parachute variant of the landing facilities of the Sprout-SD CAO was designated P3M. The military transport aircraft Il-260 of early release is capable of taking one machine for landing, and the modernized IL-76MD - two. The 76C2 ACS can also be transported on the external suspension of the Mi-25 helicopter.


Loading the CAO 2C25 “Sprut-SD” into the military transport aircraft IL-76


In fact, the 2-XNNXX Sprut-SD antitank self-propelled artillery mount was ready for use in the middle of the 25-x. This was hampered by the unwillingness of the parachute landing system, which in turn could not be brought to mind due to the banal lack of funding. It took about 90 more years to get the customer to decide whether he needed a light anti-tank self-propelled gun, capable of effectively counteracting the main battle tanks.

The official order of the Minister of Defense on the adoption of the 2C25 self-propelled anti-tank gun on 9 January 2006. But on this misadventure machine is not over. During the “Serdyukovschiny” serial production of the CAO was discontinued. According to the Deputy Minister of Defense, Chief of Armament of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, V.A. Popovkin, this decision was due to the fact that the airborne artillery installation of the Russian army is not needed because of the complexity of the development of military service, low security and high cost. At the same time, it was proposed to purchase abroad or establish licensed production of the Italian wheeled tank destroyer B1 Centauro. In 2012-2014, two cars with 105-mm and 120-mm guns were tested in Russia. In the course of the tests, it turned out that with the 24 t mass in terms of security in a frontal projection, the Italian armored car does not exceed the Sprut-SD. There is also no advantage in firepower, and in terms of maneuverability on weak soils, the “Centaur” is seriously inferior to the Russian caterpillar CAO. The production of B1 Centauro was completed in 2006 year, at the time of the termination of serial construction the cost of one machine was € 1,6 million.

It is clear that the machine type 2C25 "Sprut-SD" can not replace the main battle tanks. However, airmobile floating self-propelled installations of light weight category, similar to tanks in terms of firepower, are necessary in modern conflicts for the rapid reaction forces. Their presence in the combat formations of paratroopers and marines increases the strike potential in the offensive and resistance in the defense. According to The Military Balance 2016, in the Russian army as of January 2016, there were at least 36 anti-tank self-propelled 2 – XNNXX “Sprut-SD” anti-tank guns, which is much less than the required Airborne Forces and Marines.

In 2015, there was information about creating a new version of the CAO 2C25М Sprut-SDM1. According to the information voiced by the representative of the Volgograd Machine-Building Company, as part of the modernization of the machine, its firepower is enhanced by installing a modern digital fire control system and putting new, more effective ammunition into ammunition. The OMS included: a commander’s panoramic sight with optical, thermal imaging and distance measuring channels, a combined gunner’s sight with optical, thermal imaging, distance measuring channels and a laser missile control channel, as well as automatic target tracking. ” The upgraded version received the equipment for controlling the remote detonation of shells on the trajectory, a ballistic computer, as well as automated workstations for the commander and the gunner-operator. The self-propelled weapon includes a remote-controlled module with a 7,62-mm machine gun, similar to that used on the T-90M tank.


Anti-tank guns 2С25М Sprut-SDM1


Thanks to the introduction of the software and hardware complex and the integration of the machine into the automated tactical level control system, command control in combat has been enhanced. The mobility of the machine has increased due to borrowing from the BMD-4M engine, transmission, chassis components, as well as the information and control chassis system. According to the information sounded at the Army-2016 International Military-Technical Forum in Kubinka, the delivery of the serial IJSC Sprut-SDM1 to the RF Armed Forces should begin in the 2018 year.

To be continued ...

Based on:
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201602101343-42cl.htm
https://vpk-news.ru/news/25603
The Military Balance 2016
http://www.zavdv.ru/bmd3/index.htm#photo_14
https://modernweapon.ru/artilleriya/sau/290-2s25-sprut-sd-samokhodnaya-protivotankovaya-pushka-rossiya.html
http://politrussia.com/vooruzhennye-sily/noveyshaya-bronya-desanta-908/


Articles from this series:


Wing infantry armor (part 1)
Wing infantry armor (part 2)
Author:
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  1. igordok
    igordok 1 March 2018 16: 57
    +4
    Thank you.
    To be continued ...
    These words are always pleasing. fellow
    And for non-armored vehicles will the Airborne Forces?

    1. Bongo
      2 March 2018 02: 44
      +4
      Quote: igordok
      And for non-armored vehicles will the Airborne Forces?

      So far only armored. hi
  2. KKND
    KKND 1 March 2018 17: 06
    +2
    Interestingly, on the Octopus there is no muzzle brake. There, even for a recoil device, the tower seems too short too. I suppose you can shoot only with a minimum clearance, so that the enemy would not be amused. And then as in the saying: "thunder is booming, in Octopus shaking, what are they doing ....?"
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 1 March 2018 17: 45
      0
      This is a smoothbore gun, what kind of "muzzle brake"?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 1 March 2018 17: 58
        +6
        Quote: bistrov.
        This is a smoothbore gun, what kind of "muzzle brake"?

    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 March 2018 18: 04
      +4
      Quote: KKND
      Interestingly, on the Octopus there is no muzzle brake.

      Dream anti-tank.

      Quote: KKND
      There, even for a recoil device, the tower seems too short too.

      ?
      Length doesn't solve anything there
      1. KKND
        KKND 1 March 2018 18: 12
        +3
        Welcome hi
        Quote: Spade
        Length doesn't solve anything there

        Ugh, damn it, not a recoil, but a damper.
        Quote: Spade
        Dream anti-tank.

        Uh ... could you develop a thought than a bad muzzle brake. Educate youth.
        And then all I know about the muzzle brake is a big unmasking and that's it .. what
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 1 March 2018 18: 59
          +6
          Quote: KKND
          Uh ... could you develop a thought than a bad muzzle brake. Educate youth.
          And then all I know about the muzzle brake is a big unmasking and that's it ..

          Exactly this. Unmasks. Even as weak as on the MT-12
          The dust is terrible, especially for anti-tank ones, where the elevation angle is small and the line of fire is low.

          Well, in addition to unmasking, there are problems with observing the results of shooting and some problems with the use of a complex of guided weapons
          1. KKND
            KKND 1 March 2018 19: 03
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Exactly this. Unmasks. Even as weak as on the MT-12

            Uh ... It matters on the modern battlefield, where infantry already have thermal imagers.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 March 2018 20: 00
              +3
              Quote: KKND
              Uh ... It matters on the modern battlefield, where infantry already have thermal imagers.

              Of course it does. The "Octopus" in the trench is cold, and after the shot does not start to glow warmly
              1. would
                would 1 March 2018 20: 07
                +2
                "Octopus" in the trench cold


                And it can be cold only if the engine is turned off and there is no significant heating. That is, it should stand still and be at ambient temperature, that is, stand for so long that, to put it mildly, a specific situation for a self-propelled gun.
                1. Blackgrifon
                  Blackgrifon 1 March 2018 20: 49
                  0
                  Not really. For example, the cape and aerosols do not allow the technique to "glow" on the screen of the thermal imager.
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 1 March 2018 20: 59
                    +2
                    Quote: Blackgrifon
                    For example, the cape and aerosols do not allow the technique to "glow" on the screen of the thermal imager.

                    Cape is very weak rescues. Here's what saves:

                    the price is appropriate.
                    Aerosols are unreliable and quickly run out.
                    1. Blackgrifon
                      Blackgrifon 2 March 2018 20: 54
                      0
                      Quote: KKND
                      Aerosols are unreliable and quickly run out.

                      The main thing is that they are both relatively cheap and, in combination with other means and measures, can significantly stop the threat. The downside here is rather that, as rait noted, the machine itself will go blind. But if it strikes from an ambush, covers itself with a veil and quickly knocks it further on - the problem is not so terrible (in theory). Especially if artillery hits the enemy at the same time.
                      1. would
                        would 3 March 2018 18: 26
                        +1
                        The downside here is rather that, as rait noted, the machine itself will go blind.


                        The minus is relative because the veil is closed from something, probably from the ATGM of the enemy. And there are two options:

                        1. Close the veil, go blind, quickly change position and stay intact.
                        2. Do not close the curtain and take the ATGM with all the consequences, burning, etc.

                        Modern aerosols so far have no alternative, nothing else can simultaneously hide the car in all ranges.
                    2. would
                      would 3 March 2018 18: 24
                      0
                      Aerosols are unreliable and quickly run out.


                      Aerosols are the only means I know that can guarantee to make the car invisible in all ranges. At the same time and in visual, and in infrared, and microwave radiation.
                  2. would
                    would 1 March 2018 21: 59
                    +3
                    I do not deny, but I note that the cloak only reduces the "luminosity". That is, it makes it difficult to detect and recognize the target, especially at long distances. Generally invisible car is not done.

                    But aerosols, as far as I know, can make the car completely invisible in all spectra. But the machine itself will go blind and their use will be visible to the naked eye.
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 1 March 2018 21: 17
                  +4
                  Quote: rait
                  And it can be cold only if the engine is turned off and there is no significant heating.

                  Exactly. Why would he turn on the engine? This is not a tank.
                  It will precisely shoot three shells before it is necessary to change the position.

                  And that, by the way, is not a fact, because the guys from the “Robots” will start to create big problems for the enemy much earlier, and against their background he will not be up to the “Octopuses”.
                  1. would
                    would 1 March 2018 21: 57
                    +3
                    The issue is more complicated and discussing it “spherically in a vacuum” is very difficult. It all comes from what kind of detection means the enemy has, so for example an unmasked even cold octopus will be perfectly visible in the non-thermal spectrum on the appropriate equipment. The combination of NVD and a thermal imager or thermal imager and a "TV camera" (what is it called?) Has long been used. That is, you will have to either in pre-prepared positions (which has many of its drawbacks), or somehow blind the enemy, or hit from outside the zone of his awareness and the availability of intelligence.

                    In addition, it is worth recalling that in order to leave the position, the engine will still have to be turned on and the Octopus will “light up” in the IR spectrum. The exhaust alone is extremely contrasting.

                    So here everything is more complicated and, first of all, it is necessary to discuss specific situations and only in them there will be clarity, only in them there will be pros and cons. And "personally, spherically in a vacuum" somehow doesn’t work for me.
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 1 March 2018 22: 14
                      +3
                      Plus to you, I also note that Lopatov is still right most of all. What for Any unmasking? Especially in the fields of future battles.
                      1. would
                        would 2 March 2018 10: 16
                        0
                        It is worth noting that with this I did not even think to argue hi
                    2. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 1 March 2018 23: 17
                      +2
                      The enemy simply will not have time with the feeling, with a good sense and with the arrangement, to wool the extension route with the help of serious UAVs with multispertronic sensors and other reconnaissance vehicles.
                      If a PT reserve is forced to enter the battle, this means the adversary "caught the initiative." And any puff of time is a loss of pace. Actually, anti-tank missile defense is precisely for this purpose and is intended to detain the enemy. Thus, ensuring the entry into the battle of the second echelon.
                      1. would
                        would 2 March 2018 09: 01
                        0
                        to properly and with the arrangement, wool the extension route with the help of serious UAVs with multispertronic sensors and other reconnaissance vehicles.


                        With the introduction of the "swarm" this is no longer so relevant. A swarm can wool entire areas automatically.
                    3. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 2 March 2018 09: 14
                      +2
                      Quote: rait
                      With the introduction of the "swarm"

                      Swarm machines can only have weak intelligence. opportunities, such as because of the small size and low power supply nothing normal can be put on them.
                      1. would
                        would 2 March 2018 10: 11
                        0
                        This is, to say the least, not so. Roy is not the size of machines, it is not a specific machine, it is a type of control, an interaction architecture.

                        A swarm can be made theoretically from any UAV from the smallest and cheapest (which they are experimenting with now) to large expensive and percussion ones. What, in fact, they want to do with us, and the first in line is quite a rather big “Corsair”.

                        https://военное.рф/2017/%D0%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B01
                        0/
                    4. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 2 March 2018 10: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: rait
                      This is, to say the least, not so. Roy is not the size of machines, it is not a specific machine, it is a type of control, an interaction architecture.

                      With the increase in the size and capabilities of the UAV, the "swarm" turns into a "flock", and the "flock", in turn, into a "flock"
                      At the same time, they are rapidly losing their "swarm" capabilities.
                      After all, what is the main advantage of the "swarm"? The loss of even a significant number of elements does not lead to a decrease in combat capabilities. So its main feature is not the presence of a connection between the elements, but their repeated duplication.

                      Quote: rait
                      Roy can be made theoretically from any UAV from the smallest and cheapest (with which they are now experimenting) to large expensive and percussion.

                      Theoretically possible. But in reality, the cost of such a "swarm" will be astronomical.
                      1. would
                        would 2 March 2018 11: 01
                        0
                        At the same time, they are rapidly losing their "swarm" capabilities.
                        After all, what is the main advantage of the "swarm"? The loss of even a significant number of elements does not lead to a decrease in combat capabilities. So its main feature is not the presence of a connection between the elements, but their repeated duplication.


                        Again wrong. The main advantage of the swarm is not in quantity at all, nor in loss resistance at all. All these are the consequences with the options used. The main advantage of the swarm is the network-centric architecture and the most automated operation of all UAVs. The main advantage in the automation of UAV control, the exchange of information between UAVs, the automation of the processing of this information.

                        That is, if earlier in order to inspect the area it was necessary 5 UAVs, 5 UAV operators who controlled and analyzed the information received, and someone else brought it together, then when applying the “swarm architecture” all 5 UAVs can operate completely automatically (or almost completely automatically), they themselves automatically fix the terrain, record changes on it, they themselves distribute their sectors, they themselves bring the received information into a single whole and all this is already transmitted to the person in a processed form. Including it is possible in almost real time. Or you can launch a great number of small UAVs, you can launch both small UAVs and drums with the model that the first obscure the second, you can make a bunch of small kamikaze UAVs and so on. There are many options, the whole point in the architecture itself is the consequence of which are the options.

                        That is why it is called a "swarm", a direct analogy with a swarm of insects that act on the same principle.

                        With the increase in the size and capabilities of the UAV, the "swarm" turns into a "flock", and the "flock", in turn, into a "flock"


                        Where does this terminology come from? Where and by whom is it used? For example, I’ve never read anywhere that someone in an interview or in military press releases shared a swarm, flocks, flocks.

                        Theoretically possible. But in reality, the cost of such a "swarm" will be astronomical.


                        Again wrong. The cost of neural networks is by no means astronomical and they are already quite widely used today, some can even be run on ordinary PCs. Moreover, the progress is so fast that today there are working neural networks and other "robots" capable of automatically controlling target designation and directly hitting a target, even today a person is gradually becoming an unnecessary gasket between automation and a machine. So far, man is in demand because there are no mass and reliable systems, but they are just around the corner. Even today, even those lagging behind the United States, we are developing to introduce “swarm architecture” in UAVs, including medium ones. And money, to put it mildly, is not an astronomical number.
                    5. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 2 March 2018 11: 13
                      0
                      Below is a new branch
        2. Nitochkin
          Nitochkin 2 March 2018 02: 30
          0
          What kind of damper? From you are an amateur artilleryman))
          Rollback and rollback brake and knurl, no dampers))
  3. Lenivets2
    Lenivets2 2 March 2018 00: 08
    0
    "At the same time, it was very clear that security and armament BMD-1 very far from ideal. "
    "it was decided to use body and units of the existing BMD-1"

    Where is the logic? bully
    1. KKND
      KKND 2 March 2018 01: 01
      +2
      Quote: Lenivets2
      "it was decided to use the body and units of the existing BMD-1"

      Too shy to ask, is it not fate to establish additional protection on the case? And the weapons can be changed.
      1. Lenivets2
        Lenivets2 2 March 2018 08: 04
        0
        "I’m embarrassed to ask, is it not fate to establish additional protection on the case?"
        Have you installed it? wink
    2. Bongo
      2 March 2018 02: 50
      +5
      Quote: Lenivets2
      Where is the logic?

      The logic is that you pull phrases out of the general context. Simultaneously with the creation of a more secure new-generation BMD-3, the BMD-1 case was used, installing a turret with new weapons on it, thus creating the BMD-2.
      1. Lenivets2
        Lenivets2 2 March 2018 08: 23
        +1
        Thank you. hi
        That is BMD-2 it was a temporary measure (which unfortunately dragged on for 30 years) a measure, before the production of the BMD-3 series?
        1. Bongo
          2 March 2018 08: 27
          +3
          Quote: Lenivets2
          That is BMD-2 it was a temporary measure (which unfortunately dragged on for 30 years) a measure, before the production of the BMD-3 series?

          BMD-2 was an evolutionary development of the BMD-1, and was supposed to be intermediate until the adoption of the BMD-3. The command of the Airborne Forces was well aware of the weak security of the BMD-2, but the installation of new weapons allowed to increase firepower. The collapse of the Union for 20 years has been hindered by the adoption of new landing vehicles, and we have what we have. hi
    3. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 2 March 2018 04: 36
      +3
      Quote: Lenivets2
      Where is the logic?

      We decided to "flash mind"? And for whom is the author writing:
      While creating BMD-3 It took into account the experience of combat use and operation of existing combat vehicles in the troops, the development trends of light armored vehicles and the improvement of weapons. First of all, the task was to increase the security of the crew and the landing, while maintaining mobility and maneuverability at the BMD-1 level .... in order to save time and financial resources that were required to launch a new machine in the series, which received the BMD designation after being adopted -2, it was decided to use the body and units of the existing BMD-1.
      Or do you have a problem with logic? Even to me, the girl is clear.
      1. Lenivets2
        Lenivets2 2 March 2018 08: 27
        0
        And what should I understand from your quote?
        What was scored for armor in order to save?
        1. Bongo
          2 March 2018 08: 49
          +2
          Quote: Lenivets2
          And what should I understand from your quote?
          What was scored for armor in order to save?

          It follows from this quote that, along with the modernization of the armament of old vehicles, the development of a new generation BMD with the best ballistic and mine protection was carried out.
          1. Lenivets2
            Lenivets2 2 March 2018 08: 57
            0
            The quote does not say that the development of BMD-3 and BMD-2 was at the same time.
            The first part of the quote says that the BMD-3 should be no less mobile than the BMD-1, and the second that the new BMD-2 has been developed and, in order to save it, will be made in the BMD-1 building. hi
            1. Bongo
              2 March 2018 09: 03
              +2
              Quote: Lenivets2
              The quote does not say that the development of BMD-3 and BMD-2 was at the same time.

              Here is what the article says:
              Almost simultaneously with the start of work on BMD-2 The design of the next generation airborne combat vehicle started. While creating BMD-3 It took into account the experience of combat use and operation of existing combat vehicles in the troops, the development trends of light armored vehicles and the improvement of weapons.
              What are you arguing about? request
              1. Lenivets2
                Lenivets2 2 March 2018 17: 44
                0
                So the question is not for you and not for the article, but for the esteemed zyablik.olga.
                She in a rude manner tried to prove something to me.
                But at the same time, she not only failed to prove, but could not even formulate what exactly, “Even to a Girl” should be clear. hi
                1. Bongo
                  3 March 2018 02: 30
                  +2
                  Quote: Lenivets2
                  So the question is not for you and not for the article, but for the esteemed zyablik.olga.
                  She in a rude manner tried to prove something to me.
                  But at the same time, she not only failed to prove, but could not even formulate what exactly, “Even to a Girl” should be clear.

                  Be lenient towards women. request
                  Quote: Lenivets2
                  When is the article about BMD-4 and BMD-4M?

                  For several days it’s already ready, moderation has passed and "hangs" in my profile. Hope to be released on Monday-Tuesday. hi
                  Quote: Lenivets2
                  ps and about shi-shigu.

                  So far, only about armor ... hi
                  1. Lenivets2
                    Lenivets2 3 March 2018 11: 16
                    0
                    "A few days already as ready, moderation has passed and" hangs "in my profile. I hope that it will be released on Monday-Tuesday."
                    Thank you. hi

                    "So far, only about the armor ..."
                    It is a pity.
                    Good machine.
              2. Lenivets2
                Lenivets2 2 March 2018 22: 28
                0
                When is the article about BMD-4 and BMD-4M?
                We are waiting. hi
                ps and about shi-shigu.
      2. Lenivets2
        Lenivets2 2 March 2018 22: 06
        0
        For some reason, you modestly disappeared and forgot me unworthy to explain that you "even the girl" understand? hi
  4. Lopatov
    Lopatov 2 March 2018 12: 02
    +1
    Quote: rait
    Again wrong. The main advantage of the swarm is not in quantity at all, nor in loss resistance at all. All these are the consequences with the options used. The main advantage of the swarm is the network-centric architecture and the most automated operation of all UAVs. The main advantage in the automation of UAV control, the exchange of information between UAVs, the automation of the processing of this information.

    8))))
    You are now trying to argue that "with equal efficiency, expensive is better than cheap." What to install powerful computers on UAVs is better than leaving them on the ground. Well, on the manufacturers side, this may be right. But only on their part.



    Quote: rait
    That is, if earlier in order to inspect the area it was necessary 5 UAVs, 5 UAV operators who controlled and analyzed the information received, and someone else brought it together, then when applying the “swarm architecture” all 5 UAVs can operate completely automatically (or almost completely automatically), they themselves automatically fix the terrain, record changes on it, they themselves distribute their sectors, they themselves bring the received information into a single whole and all this is already transmitted to the person in a processed form.

    All of this can be done by computers at the control point. It is much cheaper and much more effective, as it is able to include information from other sources in the analysis

    Quote: rait
    Again wrong. The cost of neural networks is by no means astronomical

    The cost of serious UAVs in large numbers is astronomical.
    1. would
      would 2 March 2018 12: 34
      +1
      However, you are confused due to your lack of information.

      All of this can be done by computers at the control point. It is much cheaper and much more effective, as it is able to include information from other sources in the analysis


      The computer at the control point compatible with the UAV system is one of the integral components of the "swarm architecture". No one requires in the hard version to transfer the entire architecture to UAVs, including because this is not necessary. Full autonomy from any command posts is not yet required, desirable, but not required. As far as I am aware, systems are being developed specifically with integration with command posts and everything else.

      You are now trying to argue that "with equal efficiency, expensive is better than cheap." What to install powerful computers on UAVs is better than leaving them on the ground. Well, on the manufacturers side, this may be right. But only on their part.


      1. Where did you get the installation of powerful computers strictly on the UAV is known only to you. Of course, the “swarm architecture” requires computing power, including UAVs, but I repeat, no one needs to completely transfer them there. Nothing prevents architecturally from making the analysis and control unit not on the UAV, but on the control through the communication channel between this unit and the UAV group.
      2. If for you the manual control of a UAV in the format “1 UAV = 1 single operator” and manual processing of information is “equal efficiency” with the absence of operators, fully automatic collection and processing of information, then there is simply nothing to talk about. Then you just do not understand what is at stake.

      The cost of serious UAVs in large numbers is astronomical.


      Given the fact that all modern countries already buy "serious UAVs" in large quantities (in our Far East, conscripts used them already in 2012), their price is clearly not astronomical, but quite affordable.
      1. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 2 March 2018 20: 50
        0
        To be honest, I always thought that a swarm is most effective as a means of attack, not intelligence.
        1. would
          would 2 March 2018 21: 04
          0
          This is most likely because on the Internet it is advertised most often as a means of attack, most often a variant of multiple microdrones. The swarm reconnaissance function used, for example, to search for something on a large territory is somehow not advertised, but it is capable of replacing, for example, search with helicopters for less cost and greater efficiency. But this is only one of the capabilities of the technology, one of the options for its application, in fact, "swarm architecture" is relevant not only for UAVs. By the same architecture, any automated combat units can be combined: From robotic tanks (we have one foot on the threshold of their introduction) to automated helicopters (so far fantastic). The swarm architecture itself can be applied very much where, not only in war. For example, a modern transport system with unmanned vehicles that receives huge amounts of information from all cars at once and thus regulates the movement and route of each.
  5. bandabas
    bandabas 2 March 2018 19: 21
    0
    I read it again. Good article.