Military Review

Why did you decide to swap the engines on the BDK project 11711?

167
Портал Flotprom citing sources reports on the "screw reform" BDK in the Russian Navy. We are talking about the decision to swap the right and left diesel engines 16ЧНХNUMX / 26 BDK (large landing ship) "Peter Morgunov." According to the statement of the “industry” source of the above-mentioned portal, such castling will change the nature of the rotation of the screws, which will eliminate the problems that have manifested themselves when the lead ship of the project (“Ivan Gren”) is moving in reverse.


It is noted that if the rearrangement of engines at the “Peter Morgunov” will lead to a positive result, then the relevant state commission will decide on changing the engines for the BDK “Ivan Gren”. Now the lead ship of the series, the large landing ship Ivan Gren, is undergoing final tests. Earlier it was planned to transfer it to the Navy in May 2018. It is noted that in this way, changes in the location of power plants are likely to be carried out after its transfer to the Navy.

Earlier, the tests of the Ivan Gren BDK of the 11711 project were suspended. One of the reasons is connected with the identification of problems when the ship is moving in reverse.

Why did you decide to swap the engines on the BDK project 11711?


BDK "Peter Morgunov" was laid at the shipyard "Yantar" in 2015 year. The main characteristics of large landing ships of the 11711 project are as follows: displacement 5 thousand tons. Length 120 meters, width 16,5 meter, draft 3,6 meter. The speed of 18 knots. Cruising range 3,5 thousand nautical miles at speed 16 knots. The autonomy of swimming 30 day. The crew is about 100 people.
Photos used:
Wikipedia
167 comments
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 23 February 2018 18: 04
    +14
    The project is somehow "unlucky" ..
    1. maxim947
      maxim947 23 February 2018 18: 08
      +10
      Yes .. unlucky it is still put it mildly
      1. ul_vitalii
        ul_vitalii 23 February 2018 18: 21
        +16
        If only the rest was normal, and of course you need to lick the undercarriage, since the problem was caught by the tail.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 23 February 2018 18: 24
          +9
          This is the lead ship. And it is not surprising that they find the jambs lick and fix. But how many in the series of such ships are there? Two? And you need twenty-two ..
          Quote: ul_vitalii
          If only the rest was normal, and of course you need to lick the undercarriage, since the problem was caught by the tail.
          1. Alex 2016
            Alex 2016 23 February 2018 18: 31
            +6
            There was infa that he will remain the only ship of this project. Information went through the MO.
            1. svp67
              svp67 23 February 2018 19: 46
              +9
              Quote: Alexey 2016
              It was infa that he will remain the only ship of this project

              And the second ship, what to disassemble? What is there about the second ship in this "infa" that is said?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Chichikov
                  Chichikov 23 February 2018 20: 51
                  +17
                  Quote: Misha Honest
                  So, good luck with the Puttin sect!

                  While writing, this nonsense, was not late for the rescue of Navalny from the clutches of the "Putin police"?
                  1. Misha Honest
                    Misha Honest 24 February 2018 01: 24
                    +4
                    Nope, I was asked to poorly write this crap. ) Although, it’s not that I was against it. Hooray to comrade Grudinin! For Stalin! soldier

                    PS. Do you always remember only one Anal or is he a god for you?

                    PS: Happy holiday! drinks
                    1. Letnab
                      Letnab 24 February 2018 09: 05
                      +6
                      huckster level with Stalin? Surround!
                      1. Mestny
                        Mestny 24 February 2018 10: 52
                        -1
                        No, a citizen simply does not understand what he is writing about.
                        In fact, it sounds something like this - "Help Putin - vote for Grudinin!"
                      2. Misha Honest
                        Misha Honest 24 February 2018 11: 48
                        +2
                        Quote: Letnab
                        huckster level with Stalin? Surround!

                        Leveled in which place? fool
                        But in general, I respect Grudinin only for the fact that for 25 years I did not let anyone destroy the last collective farm in the country. And moreover, it brought the collective farm into the leaders of agricultural enterprises in the country and continues to develop it.
                        I think that such a person would certainly be a better president than GDP.
                    2. Hammerlock
                      Hammerlock 24 February 2018 12: 01
                      +3
                      Let your congratulations go through the forest, and you ...
                      1. Misha Honest
                        Misha Honest 24 February 2018 12: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: Hammerlock
                        Let your congratulations go through the forest, and you ...

                        Similarly. ) Given that I did not communicate with you and did not congratulate you.
            2. Don
              Don 23 February 2018 23: 12
              +3
              Quote: Alex 2016
              There was infa that he will remain the only ship of this project. Information went through the MO.

              According to the mind, this ship also cannot be taken into service, only a headache for the Moscow Region. In general, you need to make a museum out of it. Let future generations of leaders, military and shipbuilders see how not to work! Then, from a historical perspective, there will be clearly more benefit from it.
          2. NKT
            NKT 23 February 2018 19: 03
            +1
            This is a temporary project, alteration, so to speak, and we have such problems
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 23 February 2018 20: 33
              +4
              Quote: NKT
              This is a temporary project,

              Yes, it seems to be done specifically for the USC Sever. Therefore, they even intended to carry pontoons with them, as a spacer in front of the landing (unloading) site. But computer (not like earlier full-scale) modeling ... that failed ... I don’t understand: where did the military representatives look, where is the technical expertise of the project? What do the Krylov brothers whisper on this matter? Or do they need pools for prestige, and not for swimming the "red horse"? And why should machines from foundations be moved there to here. maybe it’s easier to bungle something with gearboxes. Surely "cheaper" will come out ... Huh? angry
              1. self-propelled
                self-propelled 23 February 2018 21: 16
                +4
                Duc, this project has been redone how many times - either the "river-sea" for internal use, or for long trips ... (as I understand it, there are completely different requirements). all the more apparently the Russian Mistrals were waiting. with “Mistral” a bit did not work and it started to change the requirements for 11711
              2. Seaman77
                Seaman77 23 February 2018 23: 10
                +3
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                What do the Krylov brothers whisper on this matter? Or do they need pools for prestige, and not for swimming the "red horse"?

                All pools are busy. They are designing aircraft carriers there.
                God forbid...
              3. sedoj
                sedoj 25 February 2018 12: 11
                0
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And why should machines from foundations be moved there to here.

                I don’t catch up with anything at all: if the right and left engines are exactly the same, then what is the reason for swapping them? "And you, my friends, if you don’t sit down, everyone is not good at musicians." Some kind of crap.
          3. svp67
            svp67 23 February 2018 19: 43
            +2
            Quote: 210ox
            how many in a series of similar ships? Two? And you need twenty-two ..

            A series is needed, but not of this project, but at least an encore, and better of a new project in general, where all identified shortcomings will be taken into account and corrected
          4. ZVO
            ZVO 23 February 2018 20: 07
            +5
            Quote: 210ox
            But how many in a series of such ships? Two? And you need twenty-two ..


            So let's just argumentatively, with numbers. by calculations - why do we need 22 Big Landing Ships?
            1. svp67
              svp67 23 February 2018 20: 50
              +2
              Quote: ZVO
              So let's just argumentatively, with numbers. by calculations - why do we need 22 Big Landing Ships?

              Having four fleets and one flotilla? 22 BDK is a LITTLE ... In the USSR Navy there were only Big Landing Ships of the "project" 775 - 28 units
              1. ZVO
                ZVO 23 February 2018 21: 08
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: ZVO
                So let's just argumentatively, with numbers. by calculations - why do we need 22 Big Landing Ships?

                Having four fleets and one flotilla? 22 BDK is LITTLE ...


                Approx.
                Few - you say.
                What are the tasks of the BDK - in the Northern Fleet ???
                What tasks does the BDK have in the Caspian ???
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 23 February 2018 21: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: ZVO


                  Approx.
                  Few - you say.
                  What are the tasks of the BDK - in the Northern Fleet ???
                  What tasks does the BDK have in the Caspian ???

                  Today - no. Neither there nor there. And tomorrow? Are you sure it will always be like this?
                  1. self-propelled
                    self-propelled 23 February 2018 21: 47
                    +6
                    for the Caspian, it may not yet, but for the Northern Fleet, given the very lively attention of the "partners" from NATO to this region and the plans of the Russian Defense Ministry to saturate the north of Russia with troops, I think there will be work
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 24 February 2018 23: 58
                      0
                      Quote: self-propelled
                      for the Caspian, it may not yet, but for the Northern Fleet, given the very lively attention of the "partners" from NATO to this region and the plans of the Russian Defense Ministry to saturate the north of Russia with troops, I think there will be work


                      what work for the big landing ship ????
                      Explain pliz ...

                      That there would be no arrogant, but useless words ...
                  2. ZVO
                    ZVO 24 February 2018 23: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Quote: ZVO


                    Approx.
                    Few - you say.
                    What are the tasks of the BDK - in the Northern Fleet ???
                    What tasks does the BDK have in the Caspian ???

                    Today - no. Neither there nor there. And tomorrow? Are you sure it will always be like this?


                    Theater theater look. so as not to be silly in the Caspian ...
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 25 February 2018 08: 58
                      0
                      Quote: ZVO
                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      Quote: ZVO


                      Approx.
                      Few - you say.
                      What are the tasks of the BDK - in the Northern Fleet ???
                      What tasks does the BDK have in the Caspian ???

                      Today - no. Neither there nor there. And tomorrow? Are you sure it will always be like this?


                      Theater theater look. so as not to be silly in the Caspian ...

                      Why should I look at him? You better remember - the day before yesterday Ukraine was a union republic, yesterday it was a friendly state, and today Russia is an aggressor for Ukraine. And in the Caspian, by the way - Iran. How will he behave in a couple of years? Can you predict? That's it. And smart people used to say - A monk with a “woman does not sleep,” but he keeps something in reserve.
          5. Tiksi-3
            Tiksi-3 25 February 2018 19: 58
            0
            Quote: 210ox
            But how many in a series of such ships? Two? And you need twenty-two ..

            just not these terrible ones, we need a new UDC project ... and rivet them
        2. Seaman77
          Seaman77 23 February 2018 18: 38
          +2
          Does it have screws of different rotation? Then it’s easier to “movers” ie screws, swap.
          1. oldseaman1957
            oldseaman1957 23 February 2018 19: 55
            +3
            Quote: Seaman77
            Does it have screws of different rotation?
            - Sure! "... a vessel having two inwardly rotating screws, as well as a vessel with outwardly rotating screws, in a stable forward run, at an equal speed of rotation of both propellers, will not be affected by any forces seeking to throw the stern into either the other side and thereby affecting the agility of the vessel. " Same thing back. And problems with reverse indicate poor quality, i.e. unfinished "raw" design. "Thank you" Khokhlov ... I wonder how much time will pass until we set up the release of powerful marine diesel engines.
            1. Seaman77
              Seaman77 23 February 2018 20: 16
              +1
              Quote: oldseaman1957
              ship with two propellers

              judged by himself ... Do not blame me. I'm used to working on single-screw.
              And these same ..ohly, diesel did not do that. They left us without turbines.
            2. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 23 February 2018 20: 46
              +8
              Quote: oldseaman1957
              And problems with reverse indicate poor quality, i.e. unfinished "raw" design.

              There is such a thing as VRS - adjustable pitch screws. So with this design dviglam rotation direction "vooPche" do not need to change. Everything comes from changing the angle of attack of the propeller blades ... Yes, the mechanics of such a propeller are complex and capricious. But there is such a solution. But, if during the 3X the flow unevenly flows around the underwater part of the ship’s hull, then you need to remove your head from the designer ... Krylovtsy are silent mysteriously, who else but they should know about the whole laminar-turbulent underwater kingdom ... However, they’re silent, like a fish on ice! am
              1. Seaman77
                Seaman77 23 February 2018 22: 55
                +4
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                There is such a thing as VRS - adjustable pitch screws

                VRSh is very good .... Only if the vessel is not more than 10 years old and the hydraulics are not "killed". And then you get stuck with it "on foot" to catch. The blades "to zero" do not become and jerk back and forth. request
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 24 February 2018 17: 00
                  +1
                  Quote: Seaman77
                  VRS is very good.

                  Apparently this is why their Germans set the type 125 on their new frigates so as not to bother with reverse.
              2. oldseaman1957
                oldseaman1957 24 February 2018 03: 23
                +1
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                There is such a thing as VRS
                - If the vessel was originally designed not for VRS - it’s better to create a new one than remake it. As for the rest, I completely agree with you: even with the VRS system will be more expensive and more complicated, but much more convenient.
            3. Dr_engie
              Dr_engie 24 February 2018 09: 14
              +1
              This indicates the design of the ship, not the engine. Otherwise, their permutation in places would not have solved anything.
              In addition, the reverse is not because the diesel engine itself does; it is generally not necessary here.
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 23 February 2018 19: 30
          +4
          Quote: ul_vitalii
          the problem was caught by the tail

          It is not clear what this will give, the engines should be the same. More like a "method of scientific poking." They just decided to try it - what if it works out.
          1. novel66
            novel66 23 February 2018 20: 43
            +5
            I would even say - reminiscent of a game of thimbles lol
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 23 February 2018 21: 18
              +5
              Or dancing with a tambourine. recourse
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 04: 59
        +5
        Quote: maxim947
        Yes .. unlucky it is still put it mildly

        Cho for the news? negative For example, this castling is not interesting to me. Someone had to think this at the development stage, on paper. And let's find that “someone” and find the PERSONALLY responsible for the jambs?
        For 20 years my company has been working steadily, the main direction is construction. Initially, I established the order EVERY PERSONALLY is responsible for my work. Type as a welder-passportist puts a mark on the joint - but I don’t have a mark, but from the loader to the chief accountant - everyone is responsible for their work .....
        Offer relevant competent authorities - and look for PERSONALLY responsible ... You look - and the rest will work better .....
        Py.Sy. My men work for the conscience, not only and not so much for fear of dismissal. Much worse if Ivanych he’ll come, will lead him to a “talk” booth and will give it to his jaw .... The poor attitude of “Ivanitch” is much worse than a simple dismissal ...
    2. Shura Sailors
      Shura Sailors 23 February 2018 18: 24
      +3
      What is the essence of the problem? Swap the engine and? Do resonant vibrations affect the presence or absence of reverse (reverse !?) travel? Or some tricky propulsion scheme?
      PS is far from shipbuilding
      1. zivXP
        zivXP 23 February 2018 18: 35
        +1
        Apparently in this way and want to find the causes of the problem
        1. Shura Sailors
          Shura Sailors 23 February 2018 20: 31
          +3
          I don’t understand - there is mechanics (simply saying - where it turns and where this rotation is transmitted). Swap engines and what will change? Explain to me what is the difference between the right and left engine on this BDK
          1. loginovich
            loginovich 23 February 2018 22: 25
            +1
            Rotate in different directions. And what will change? Himself in a stupor.
          2. zivXP
            zivXP 23 February 2018 23: 12
            +3
            Because of the “mechanics squared”, for half a year the mill didn’t work normally after modernization, we rolled it for five minutes - it was repaired for a week. And no one could find a reason, such miracles. There are no old specialists left, some young and effective.
          3. tol100v
            tol100v 24 February 2018 03: 48
            0
            Probably in a rollback!
          4. sogdy
            sogdy 24 February 2018 06: 24
            0
            Quote: Shura of the sailors
            Swap engines and what will change? Explain to me what is the difference between the right and left engine on this BDK

            Start with the fact that these are not engines, but multi-fuel diesel generators with gas turbine supercharging. _Dvigateli_ (drive part) do not change places (if the journalists didn’t mess up something again).
            I did not see what the problem was (subsidence or stability - reverse or reverse?). The generator part is unique, not the diesel one. In general - catching fleas, which you can’t identify at the stand.
            1. Shura Sailors
              Shura Sailors 24 February 2018 09: 42
              0
              Those. Is a multi-fuel diesel generator with gas turbine supercharging not an engine? I don’t know if the engine (drive part) is interchanged or not, but the engine is complete. I will not argue how, in this case, stability (with a drawdown) affects the presence of a reverse stroke. Is there a problem in the unique generator part?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 24 February 2018 10: 18
          +1
          Quote: zivXP
          Apparently in this way and want to find the causes of the problem

          I recalled a joke from the time of the USSR.
          Design Bureau Tupolev. Experiencing a new aircraft in a wind tunnel. Five tests - five times the wings of an airplane fall off. The best minds do not know what to do. Someone says, "We will call the craftsman Uncle Vasya from the fifth workshop, he will come up with something." Uncle Vasya comes in, looks and gives a conclusion "In the place where the wings are attached to the fuselage, you need to drill holes." Nobody believes, but nowhere to go and drill. Testing is excellent. Uncle Vasya at a press conference- "I noticed this on toilet paper, where holes never break."
      2. Russia
        Russia 23 February 2018 18: 37
        +9
        The engines are different, one left and the other right (joke). Perhaps the parameters of the engines vary greatly, it is not an easy matter to change the engines on a built ship.
      3. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 05: 04
        +5
        Quote: Shura sailors
        What is the essence of the problem? Swap the engine and? Do resonant vibrations affect the presence or absence of reverse (reverse !?) travel? Or some tricky propulsion scheme?
        PS is far from shipbuilding
        It’s not for us, Sasha, to think about where I am and where all these ships are .... BUT ... The control principles are general ... Someone at the development stage, on paper, didn’t think it over, squinted - so let now the competent authorities will find this SOMETHING - let them answer for their "cant" .... I have 20 company with more than years on this principle - and goes only uphill ....
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 24 February 2018 06: 35
          +1
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Someone at the development stage, on paper, did not think it over, squinted it - so let the competent authorities now find this

          What is the difference between KM and KMD? And in the absence of a thousandfold verified tabular data?
          There is only one "educational" option - to thoroughly understand and punish anyone. There are more negative sides than positive ones.
          And now - about the mock tests - we divide the size of the layout by 120m and the cubic root (if the problem is in dynamics) from the result. If "alive" is unstably caught, what could be caught on the layout?
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 07: 32
            +4
            Quote: sogdy
            divide the layout size by 120m and the cubic root (if the problem is in dynamics) from the result.

            Jonathan Swift didn’t do this in Gulliver's Travels. Wrong
            But Gulliver’s Travels, especially the book released in the Soviet years in the KS series, didn’t it get worse? ...
            1. sogdy
              sogdy 24 February 2018 09: 58
              0
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              Jonathan Swift didn’t do this in Gulliver's Travels. Wrong

              What will you measure?
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 10: 39
                +4
                Quote: sogdy
                Quote: Zoldat_A
                Jonathan Swift didn’t do this in Gulliver's Travels. Wrong

                What will you measure?

                The second and third degree. Area and volume. A textbook of algebra, 5 class ... Learn the materiel, a youngster ...
                1. sogdy
                  sogdy 24 February 2018 14: 56
                  0
                  ruler, caliper, micrometer ... microscope ... triangulation, scatter ...
                  What will you measure, builder? Techie, damn it.
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 24 February 2018 11: 14
          +2
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Someone at the development stage, on paper, did not think it over, squinted

          It would be nice if all the calculations on paper completely coincided with the finished product. Then tests would not have to be carried out.
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 25 February 2018 07: 17
            +4
            Quote: Piramidon
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            Someone at the development stage, on paper, did not think it over, squinted

            It would be nice if all the calculations on paper completely coincided with the finished product. Then tests would not have to be carried out.

            In Soviet times, entire design bureaus sat and on paper calculated the theory of what they then "wailed" .... Really ...
    3. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 23 February 2018 18: 41
      +3
      The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 23 February 2018 18: 49
        +7
        Does this have to do with Gren?
        Quote: To be or not to be
        The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.
        1. 3officer
          3officer 23 February 2018 18: 57
          +4
          Quote: 210ox
          Does this have to do with Gren?
          Quote: To be or not to be
          The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.

          Sometimes miracles happen! Perhaps thimbles with engines will help the long-suffering BDK wink
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 07: 35
            +5
            Quote: 3officer
            Sometimes miracles happen!

            "Sometimes they come back ..." Watch the film classics ... drinks The advice is not for you personally, but in general ... The phrase is ... drinks
          2. Varna
            Varna 24 February 2018 08: 15
            +1
            Quote: 3officer
            Quote: 210ox
            Does this have to do with Gren?
            Quote: To be or not to be
            The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.

            Sometimes miracles happen! Perhaps thimbles with engines will help the long-suffering BDK wink

            Good girl, got out))))) A big plus for you good
        2. ul_vitalii
          ul_vitalii 23 February 2018 18: 59
          +8
          Quote: 210ox
          Does this have to do with Gren?
          Quote: To be or not to be
          The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.

          Dmitriy hi Positive emotions won't hurt us, wake me up at night and tell me something good, I won’t be offended drinks
          1. 210ox
            210ox 23 February 2018 19: 34
            +3
            I agree. I hope for positive emotions on the 25th. Our good luck! drinks hi
            1. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 07: 51
              +4
              Dima, hi hi categorically!
              Quote: 210ox
              I hope for the positive emotions of 25 numbers. Our good luck!

              Я I hope on 18 March. I won’t go to vote myself - my wife too. And without us, WHO WILL BE SELECTED ... To meet him for a hundred of cognac - so I have claims in small print on 6 sheets. AND WHO, IF NOT HE? The thief’s daughter, a drunkard and a cocaine woman who directly says that one of her first decrees would be “Return of the annexed Crimea to Ukraine”. Or an eagle, the director of a state farm, who bought for a penny the land of shareholders, who has accounts in Switzerland and a son - who has citizenship of another country .. The PR-service in the Communist Party does not work on the word "ABSOLUTELY." Before moving the candidate, he had a biography TO SCRUBBLE ....T. Jefferson during the election campaign revealed an illegitimate son (a terrible sin at that time !!!!!) So when his PR-schiki asked what kind of thing to do. He said, "Tell the truth." He won those elections .....
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 24 February 2018 07: 55
                +4
                Quote: Zoldat_A
                I have claims in small print on 6 sheets.

                The first point is why is Marshal Taburetin not shot? Well, further down the list .....
              2. the most important
                the most important 24 February 2018 11: 15
                +3
                Quote: Zoldat_A
                I have claims in small print on 6 sheets. AND WHO, IF NOT HE?

                You're right!! SOME !!! He is GOD on earth !!! The truth of divine affairs is not particularly visible ... and the environment is all from thieves ... and 20 million beggars in the country ... and a country without a flag ... and the economy in the pope ... and golden gasoline ... and the pension will be 000 ... and the Russians will be killed in Donetsk ... and we will pay indemnity to the Caucasus ... Continue ?? Sound all 000 sheets ??? With late Brezhnev, too, a rumor was circulating that there was no one to replace him ... But for me, power must be changed CONSTANTLY !!! That would not think that her God in the ass kisses. And then it feels like they completely believed in it there.
          2. tol100v
            tol100v 24 February 2018 03: 53
            +2
            Quote: ul_vitalii
            Wake me up at night and tell me something good, I will not be offended

            I agree to support you!
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 25 February 2018 07: 25
        +4
        Quote: To be or not to be
        The German national team sensationally entered the decisive match of the Olympic hockey tournament for the Russians, defeating the Canadians in the semifinals - 4: 3.

        I don’t watch this country Olympics in principle - but GERMANS take out CANADA - this is a sensation in itself! Where is Quebec Nordics? Where is the Montreal Canadiens? Aw, Canadian hockey 70's ... Bobby Hull stands quietly on the sidelines and cries .... How he hit Kharlamov in the Super Series ...
    4. avt
      avt 23 February 2018 19: 19
      +8
      Quote: 210ox
      The project is somehow "unlucky" ..

      Because the engines change - and suddenly you're lucky bully
      Quote: 210ox
      This is the lead ship

      This is a pain in the neck. It must be immediately parked forever, as a monument to the disgrace of the joint quartet of Grandfather Krylov, but not by the name of which the institute was named. I would also suggest they put the engines perpendicularly, then even a trampoline to them. Rogozin is not needed. There will really be a space project, in the sense of a space shipbuilding scam.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 23 February 2018 19: 43
        +3
        Quote: avt
        Because the engines change - and suddenly you're lucky

        But by chance from a change in the places of the terms the sum does not change ??? what wassat
        1. avt
          avt 23 February 2018 19: 46
          +1
          Quote: Rurikovich
          But by chance from a change in the places of the terms the sum does not change ???

          DUK
          Quote: avt
          This is in mathematics, but in the development of the budget it is still changing.

          wassat
          1. novel66
            novel66 23 February 2018 20: 45
            +2
            swap the stern with the bow lol
            1. Seaman77
              Seaman77 23 February 2018 22: 57
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              swap the stern with the bow lol

              stop
      2. the most important
        the most important 23 February 2018 19: 47
        +2
        Quote: avt
        I would also suggest they put the engines perpendicularly

        maybe oars and slaves ????
        1. avt
          avt 23 February 2018 19: 48
          +4
          Quote: the most important
          maybe oars and slaves ????

          Well, if you refer to him the top managers and the great wise naval governor, then you can still invest in a good cause.
          1. the most important
            the most important 23 February 2018 19: 50
            +5
            Quote: avt
            if you refer to him the top managers and the great wise naval governor,

            If you take all the worthy, then a few dozen aircraft carriers have enough oarsmen ...
          2. tol100v
            tol100v 24 February 2018 03: 59
            0
            Quote: avt
            for a good cause.

            Yes, so many ships can not be typed!
    5. svp67
      svp67 23 February 2018 19: 41
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      The project is somehow "unlucky" ..

      And alas, it seems DEAD. He reworked and grew in size so many times that apparently there was no need to wait for another ... But our fleet will be glad for such ships too. Since so far there is nothing better at the exit. I would like to believe that subsequent "projects" will have a happier fate
  2. ZVO
    ZVO 23 February 2018 18: 07
    +5
    Why did I remember the school ...

    And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
    Everyone is not good at musicians.
    1. 3officer
      3officer 23 February 2018 18: 12
      0
      Quote: ZVO
      Why did I remember the school ...
      .

      The amount does not change from a change in the places of the terms laughing What is the problem then? Do not go back and that's it. wassat
      1. Grandfather Makhno
        Grandfather Makhno 23 February 2018 18: 24
        +1
        Not one step back!!!
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 23 February 2018 18: 32
        +3
        For some Mistral, yes, you can drive into the rear, push them into the port with tugboats.

        For BDK - driving characteristics are the main parameter when working as intended. On the landing zone, he should cheerfully come up (without rushing back and forth, taxiing) - drop the troops and cheerfully dump, firstly minimizing the time when everything from anti-tank systems to mortars and howitzers will shoot at him free space next BDK.

        At the moment, Gren and Morgunov have a lack of stability (measures are already being taken at Morgunov), maneuvering at low speeds (the main and key parameter for the BDK) and reverse (key difficulties with the complete loss of rudder efficiency - moving engines by the way should fix this, screws will not twist inward but outward). Simply put - you can’t use it for its intended purpose, only in the form VTR, as the previous Navy leadership wanted, by the way, when they realized that there would be a lot of sores.
        1. Seaman77
          Seaman77 23 February 2018 18: 44
          +3
          Quote: donavi49
          For Mistral what - yes, you can drive into the rear, push into the port with tugboats

          the Mistrals had azipods. They tug nah ..... not needed, unlike Gren.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 23 February 2018 18: 47
            +4
            For example, I wrote - and to make it concise and clear, Mistral pointed out. He did not have such problems constructively.

            The point is that to a large DKVD / UDC these characteristics are not critical, even when working as intended. For the discharge of amphibian groups and TDK occurs far from the coast.

            For BDK, which go into shallow water, go into narrow bays - driving characteristics are critical. Especially on small moves (with which there are problems).
            1. Seaman77
              Seaman77 23 February 2018 19: 34
              +3
              Quote: donavi49
              for example, he wrote - and so that Mistral pointed out briefly and clearly. He did not have such problems constructively.
              The point is that to a large DKVD / UDC these characteristics are not critical - even when working as intended

              Misunderstanding has occurred. It happens. However, if Gren, who essentially has a ro-ro ferry, has stability problems, then this is much more serious than the "difficulties of maneuvering in reverse."
        2. 3officer
          3officer 23 February 2018 18: 49
          +1
          Quote: donavi49


          At the moment, Gren and Morgunov have a lack of stability.

          If so, then reversing problems .. not their biggest problem belay
        3. sogdy
          sogdy 24 February 2018 06: 56
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          key difficulties with the complete loss of rudder efficiency - moving engines by the way should fix this, the screws will not turn inward but outward

          F shocked! Direct drive with a shaft at 60 meters - "this is our way!". At 5ct displacement. And the screws at 3 meters draft.
      3. avt
        avt 23 February 2018 19: 21
        +3
        Quote: 3officer
        The amount does not change from a change in the places of the terms

        This is in mathematics, but in the development of the budget it is still changing.
      4. svp67
        svp67 23 February 2018 19: 49
        0
        Quote: 3officer
        Do not go back and that's it.

        Of course, it’s possible, only how can you crawl from the coast, after disembarking or receiving an assault? This landing ship can deliver directly to the coast ....
      5. sogdy
        sogdy 24 February 2018 06: 49
        0
        Quote: 3officer
        The amount does not change from a change in the places of the terms

        If these are not rotation moments. In high school, it is held three times - twice in physics and once in mathematics.
        Problems in the quality of education or thinking?
        Or to doubt the age of commentators?
    2. Esoteric
      Esoteric 23 February 2018 19: 23
      +2
      Quote: ZVO
      Why did I remember the school ...
      And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
      Everyone is not good at musicians.

      For some reason I remembered the army and the BTR-60 with two GAZ-49A ... tachometer ... relay-regulator ... belay
      1. ul_vitalii
        ul_vitalii 23 February 2018 19: 40
        +6
        Yes it was, we had a KShMka based on the BTR-60, we listened to R-123 Pugachev. smile
    3. vlad_vlad
      vlad_vlad 23 February 2018 20: 12
      +2
      Quote: ZVO
      Why did I remember the school ...

      And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
      Everyone is not good at musicians.


      ... depends on the degree of licentiousness. wink I recalled a joke on this topic - "... in this brothel you need to change not the furniture, but the girls."
      1. Varna
        Varna 24 February 2018 08: 42
        0
        Quote: vlad_vlad
        Quote: ZVO
        Why did I remember the school ...

        And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
        Everyone is not good at musicians.


        ... depends on the degree of licentiousness. wink I recalled a joke on this topic - "... in this brothel you need to change not the furniture, but the girls."

        Oh, another delicate stebist drew, remembered the anecdote from the time of his mother laughing
        It’s better to change your work, the “new” Vlad is Vlad, he is also the reincarnation of a troll named gelding - the work of a paid troll is not physically difficult, but it is as smelly as the girls you deigned to mention.
    4. Varna
      Varna 24 February 2018 08: 37
      0
      Quote: ZVO
      Why did I remember the school ...

      And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
      Everyone is not good at musicians.

      And you don’t arise at all, they don’t build anything close in your beloved Israel - they just shout like beggars all over the world: either Germany’s submarines will lift up for nothing, then they will ask the fighter states - there’s nothing of their own. Where your kfir is rambling, he died a long time ago, and the flowers on his grave have already dried up. If not for the states with his gifts for three lard dollars annually - annually !! - they would fight with muskets with sticks, fly on Messerschmitt.
      And we don’t tell me and the public about the drop-dead Israeli military-industrial complex - there is a good piece of hi-tech - it’s just honestly stolen from the state companies - periodically - even American companies tolerant to Jews cannot stand it - and they accuse another Jew of stealing technology in favor of Israel, but history quickly jammed and sticks on. But then all over the world there is a boom - what good fellows Jews, what kind of helmet they have 3 D for fighter jets, which thermal imagers - everything is stolen, not stolen - received on the ball, just from the gentleman's shoulder - but how much noise, what a PR!
      1. Varna
        Varna 24 February 2018 09: 00
        0
        Now, he just flew from Wikipedia - nothing is produced except his unfortunate boats from his adored Israel, nothing can be built either by fighters, submarines, or even a lying corvette; BDK for them to build, it’s unrealistic as a spaceship (right now the truth will run up and say that they don’t really need a BDK)))).
      2. ZVO
        ZVO 25 February 2018 00: 04
        0
        Quote: Varna
        Quote: ZVO
        Why did I remember the school ...

        And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
        Everyone is not good at musicians.

        Don’t arise at all


        Hey, a cowardly dog ​​... I already told you in the top ten who you are and what you stand in this life!
        You are a cowardly European-gay entity with Eurosport. Moldovan Romanian !.
        Went away from the Russian forum.
        I, as a Samara resident, of the very center of Russia, tell you in plain text - the Romanian mongrel has gone!

        But you didn’t answer to any of my personal messages written to you ...
        You are a cowardly creature with a European passport.
        A sheep and even more responsible ...
  3. Mitrich
    Mitrich 23 February 2018 18: 12
    0
    Just at the initial location of the engines, BDK went backwards faster than before)))))
  4. 3officer
    3officer 23 February 2018 18: 20
    +3
    There is no silver lining, we have bad engines .. but the best mechanics in the world good
    1. Russia
      Russia 23 February 2018 18: 39
      +10
      smile And applied mechanics, a chisel and a hammer.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy 24 February 2018 07: 04
      0
      Quote: 3officer
      we have bad engines ..

      Let me ask, at what “engines”, if 16CHN26 / 26 - a diesel generator? After 14 years, the difference is usually understood. At a normal level of development.
  5. Moonsund
    Moonsund 23 February 2018 18: 20
    +2
    Well this is just ridiculous, by golly
  6. san4es
    san4es 23 February 2018 18: 32
    +3
    ... such castling will allow you to change the nature of the rotation of the screws

    ... easier to throw the screws wink
    4-stroke medium-speed engine with gas turbine pressurization and cooling of charge air type D49, dimension CHN26 / 26.
    ChN26 / 26 engine in a V-shaped design of 16 cylinders. The rotational speed of the crankshaft (750 ... 1100 rpm), the engine covers a power range from 588 to 4412 kW.
    1000 rpm
    Range kW (hp) 2250 (3060)
    weight (kg) 28300
    Dimensions
    The 6188
    B 1920
    H 3057-3015

    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 February 2018 18: 35
      +5
      And that too. Only there the propulsive complex will not allow you to run on reverse as in the main mode (if you just throw the screws). Therefore, it is still necessary to transfer engines.
      1. san4es
        san4es 23 February 2018 18: 42
        +2
        Quote: donavi49
        ... Therefore, it is still necessary to transfer engines.

        recourse ... Not weak ... Well, how much "hugging" with them ... fellow
        1. novel66
          novel66 23 February 2018 20: 48
          +1
          great! hi to love and to love! this is not a foreign car!
          1. san4es
            san4es 23 February 2018 20: 52
            +1
            hi Healthy Rum. Happy holiday!
            this is not a foreign car

            ..There is no particular difference (there)
      2. rruvim
        rruvim 23 February 2018 22: 18
        +2
        I do not quite agree. But I do not insist on my opinion. Only the reverse is carried out by a gear compensating gearbox. Actually, the gearbox must compensate for the speed and power of these diesels (two identical ones do not exist), and not in the “old fashioned way” -
        change of any gears and magnets tied to "all kinds of computers." In any case, this is the hobby of “Vyartsilya”. Exchange of diesel engines in places, especially not on one ship, but on a series of two ships is meaningless. Unless, of course, the entire alignment of the Ship has been violated, with a rear reverse the roll becomes more obvious. Most likely they will simply move the DD along the body without changing them for each other.
        1. loginovich
          loginovich 23 February 2018 22: 49
          0
          The scribbler wrote is far from technology and the fleet. Surely there is no reversible gearbox. From each engine, the propeller shaft through the reduction gearbox or directly transfers power to the screw. It is customary that under such a scheme, engine movements rotate in different directions. What will change if the engines are interchanged should be asked the main innovator Chubais.
  7. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 23 February 2018 18: 34
    0
    It is somehow surprising. Could this be the execution of the project, where everything should be calculated? So where do artists grow hands from? Or maybe the developers, if the head ship said this?
    1. AUL
      AUL 23 February 2018 19: 13
      +2
      It is impossible to calculate everything in advance even theoretically. There is always a refinement period for a product. Moreover, this is the head of the series. So, the situation is ordinary. Remember how many Armata, Su-57 are already brought.
      And about "just throw the screws" - I think there specialists are not worse than a hedgehog, they also considered this option.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 23 February 2018 19: 37
        +1
        Well. if such issues are resolved after construction, and not before, then this is sad. At Su-57, of course, there are problems with childhood diseases, but not on such a scale.
      2. ML-334
        ML-334 23 February 2018 19: 54
        0
        For any engines should be thrown along with the screws.
    2. dauria
      dauria 23 February 2018 19: 52
      +6
      Or maybe the developers, if the head ship said this?


      At the beginning of the 20th century, the Germans built the Novik cruiser for Russia. Look how many times the screws were changed there - pitch, diameter, number of blades, engine speed. They knew how to count then, but to what sense?
      By the way, if you look carefully at the Mi-24A and B, D (or Mi-8 T and MT), you will see a different direction of rotation of the tail rotor - you had to change it so that the oncoming blade fell into the jet of the carrier (increased efficiency).
      When the designer has nothing to rely on (there is no standard for design), such things are not uncommon.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 23 February 2018 20: 09
        +1
        The designer has something to rely on, not a photon starship does. It’s another matter that the developer usually takes the order, quickly (as best he can) disburses the funds, and when it turns out “not very”, he goes to the branch research institute with a request to help, while modestly adding: there is no money, everything is already stolen ... sorry, spent before us. This was approximately the case when developing a bullet for underwater shooting, when developers from TsNIITOCHMASH contacted the TsAGI branch, however, this was in the 70 of the last century, when corruption was still in its infancy.
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 24 February 2018 10: 25
          0
          Quote: Aviator_
          the developer usually takes the order, quickly (as best he can) disburses the funds, and when it turns out “not very”, he goes to the branch research institute with a request to help, while modestly adding: there is no money, everything is already stolen ... sorry, it’s been spent up to us. This was approximately the case when developing a bullet for underwater shooting, when developers from TsNIITOCHMASH contacted the TsAGI branch, however, this was in the 70s of the last century, when corruption was still in its infancy

          Did you participate? Ali rumors?
          And yes, with a bullet, I congratulate the deceit. Disruption dynamics is an academic topic with two curators. In the indicated years there were three low-budget post-graduate studies, departmental, obviously failing. Such developments are needed to strengthen interagency ties.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 24 February 2018 11: 22
            0
            About "lie" - it is on your conscience. I was a student then, and I know how to save the system. And then I came across a similar situation more than once. And about post-graduate workings - you amused me pretty much.
            1. sogdy
              sogdy 24 February 2018 13: 07
              0
              Quote: Aviator_
              I was a student then, and I know how to save the system. And then I came across a similar situation more than once.

              Amused. "Students of research institutes save the world" ?! And what have we been fighting with families for centuries ... for some reason? Padumaesh, opened the textbook, wrote off a couple of formulas ...

              An example from a completely different field. Physical chemistry. Students in practice carry out a 1001 measurement, determine the reactivity of a radical - an absolutely objective factor. Just the radical forms compounds according to valency (as far as I remember, 3 and 5), by the way, which has not yet been explained at the level of physical interactions. The head in thought says: "Who would know what valency is ..." A very diligent and smart student the next day demonstrates Glinka's textbook to the head.
              She was probably a good teacher, but she could not resist in applied science ...
              This is about being in the know, especially students. In mountaineering, this factor is called "third-grade disease" - when there is confidence that you know everything.

              Now have fun. Boxwood to help. "A roasted rooster lives on the fifth floor venue. Many don't believe it." (c) sorry, from memory.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 24 February 2018 14: 04
                0
                I hope you are not a troll, although the style is alarming. I explain. Our graduate departments were directly at the research institute and design bureau, so senior students not only were aware of the main events of that time, but also participated to the extent of their qualifications in the development of these research institutes. The style is like that. Fiztekhovsky. Google to the rescue.
  8. Lock36
    Lock36 23 February 2018 18: 37
    +1
    Specialists, tell me, what is the fundamental difference between the left and right engines? The direction of rotation of the crankshaft? Or?
    1. groks
      groks 23 February 2018 19: 20
      0
      Screws are closer to the axis than rudders. With the current direction of rotation, a dense jet is formed precisely along the axis. Manageability is falling.
      Interesting - and he will only go forward in full swing? Either the journalists did not understand something, or the MORF was lying. Both options are already familiar.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 24 February 2018 10: 35
        0
        Quote: groks
        Or the journalists didn’t understand something

        I asked the railroad workers who have these diesels used. Both diesel engines are _ auxiliary_ power plants. Many words have been expressed, the essence: "throw = complete revision", and not "swap". However, the first does not exclude the second.
  9. Herculesic
    Herculesic 23 February 2018 18: 52
    +2
    And what's next, swap the bow and stern? fool
  10. rruvim
    rruvim 23 February 2018 20: 10
    +6
    When I studied at the Moscow Institute of Water Transport Engineers, a fellow student from the faculty of SD and ship mechanics told me that in two-screw pushers of barges sometimes diesel engines are interchanged and this is usually due to the imbalance of the vessel and its geometry. To do this, rails for lifting winches were welded on the ceiling of the engine room. The operation was usually carried out after 3, 5 years of operation, when the “drift” of the twin pusher-barge became obvious. And then these single "operations" were part of manuals and legends. And what would be for the "series", even for two ships ... Something the journalists, as always messed up. Most likely, this is not a change of the right and left diesel engine in some places, but their centering relative to the center of mass with their transverse movement.
    1. rruvim
      rruvim 23 February 2018 20: 18
      +1
      Then there are diesel engines: primary and secondary. They are of different sizes, weights and power. Different vibration resistance. Maybe their wrong "alignment" on the "Ivan Gren" during operation and led to this problem? After all, he was rebuilt more than once. And the journalist simply called two different aggregates one abbreviation ...
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 24 February 2018 10: 47
        0
        The auxiliary ones are indicated, which, in general, is not a fact. Hanging out is quite possible.
        The most adequate comment.
  11. The comment was deleted.
    1. novel66
      novel66 23 February 2018 20: 49
      +2
      come on? can not be!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. novel66
          novel66 23 February 2018 21: 01
          +2
          love great, great! what suddenly?
          1. Mannya
            Mannya 23 February 2018 21: 08
            +3
            Quote: novel xnumx
            what suddenly?

            not looking for easy ways !!! laughing
            Congratulations!!!
            love
            1. novel66
              novel66 23 February 2018 21: 11
              +2
              thank you i missed
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 23 February 2018 21: 55
                  +2
                  Night, street, lantern, pharmacy, Pointless and dim light. Live at least a quarter century - Everything will be so. There is no outcome. If you die, you will start over again And everything will be repeated as if you were old: Night, icy ripples of the canal, Pharmacy, street, lantern.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Manul
                    Manul 24 February 2018 05: 01
                    +1
                    Good poem. Is it really yours? wink
                    1. Varna
                      Varna 24 February 2018 08: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: Manul
                      Good poem. Is it really yours? wink

                      Thank you, even a drop of subtle humor laughing
        2. rruvim
          rruvim 23 February 2018 21: 11
          +2
          But if it rumbles
          It’s definitely not snow,
          not ice
          not "gimp" delirious!
          Molten copper.
          Flies into the void.
          A fragment of aluminum, ammunition in the "nose".
          And a flash illuminates the darkness!
          And the whole “table” falls into darkness,
          But if there is a soul
          She's completely empty
          And just a parachute with that catapult stance
          Saves a guy without breathing!
  12. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 23 February 2018 20: 14
    0
    There will still be a tank with a jute to change places ...
    1. IL-18
      IL-18 23 February 2018 21: 51
      +1
      Quote: Geisenberg
      There will still be a tank with a jute to change places ...

      impossible, then the sides will change. And our right-left is everything.
  13. minus
    minus 23 February 2018 21: 28
    0
    Something I didn’t understand ... But why change engines in places? They taught from kindergarten that the amount does not change from a change in the terms of the terms ...
    1. kig
      kig 24 February 2018 05: 16
      +2
      in reverse, the behavior of the vessel changes, and in order to move straight ahead, very often you need a rudder, oddly enough, to keep somewhat away from the diametrical plane. Where exactly and how much is indicated in the maneuvering characteristics of the vessel, which are finally determined by sea trials. In the case of a 2-propulsion system, the situation is completely confusing. Although maneuvering is simplified: right forward, left back, steering left to board, and the ship turns in place. Well, since they didn’t explain to us exactly what the problem was, it’s impossible to say anything sensible about this.
  14. skazochnik
    skazochnik 23 February 2018 21: 41
    0
    As I understand it, factory tests began at the end of 2015 and the problem with the ZX is reported in 2018, the question arises: what did they do for 2 years? The second question: if the engines are absolutely identical, then how reinstalling them in places will solve the problem? The ship was laid down in 2004 and there is still no end in sight and alterations and trials, maybe it is time for all Zaputinians to come to the polls and make a choice with their brains ?.
    1. rruvim
      rruvim 23 February 2018 22: 23
      0
      Actually, we’ve been engaged since 2004 (launching the first ship of this project). The project of 1998 itself. Only now they realized that diesel engines are not standing there. fellow
    2. Tankograd
      Tankograd 24 February 2018 00: 56
      0
      The choice for your example, "zanavalnovets"?
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 23 February 2018 22: 39
    0
    There will be no sense in this "bobcat"! The ship is good, but it is mocked at exactly the same diagonalsas in the entire “doctrine of the fleet.” There is money — that is, we will tell everyone about our aircraft carrier, there is no money — we will talk about foreign aircraft carriers (it doesn’t matter that it’s spoiled and unfinished). Give money for at least one scoop!. and then you can upload Gerald Ford about all talk shows.
  17. senima56
    senima56 23 February 2018 22: 40
    0
    This long-suffering BDK "Ivan Gren" ... Long-suffering, there is nothing more to say!
    1. Varna
      Varna 24 February 2018 08: 47
      0
      Quote: senima56
      This long-suffering BDK "Ivan Gren" ... Long-suffering, there is nothing more to say!

      Nothing, the seeds will be crushed - there will be flour (but they will be with knowledge, moreover, with their own, not bought).
  18. Forever so
    Forever so 23 February 2018 22: 49
    0
    some kind of game.
  19. gerkost2012
    gerkost2012 23 February 2018 23: 11
    0
    Oh, poor “Vanya”, or maybe, in the order of a scientific experiment, it’s better to flood him and not spend money on “castling”? But seriously, the engines are exactly the same and the nature of the rotation of the screws should be exactly the same. Most likely there are some imperfections in the drive or in the screws themselves there is no balancing. Weights. Maybe this is fake stuff?
  20. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 24 February 2018 00: 26
    0
    Quote: Misha Honest
    Well, good luck, lick on. ) From Russia, the name of Putin and his partners is enough ... with him - a star in our country. It is the country as a single state. Putin's "partners" will clearly help us ... to shame and collapse.
    So, good luck with the Puttin sect!


    Can be more?
  21. Tankograd
    Tankograd 24 February 2018 00: 51
    0
    Quote: Misha Honest
    with him - a star in our country.

    Misha, your country is USA! Contraceptive!
  22. Div Divich
    Div Divich 24 February 2018 01: 18
    0
    These need to be completed, at least something will be for a while.
    And new ones also need to be built, but of a different kind.
  23. kig
    kig 24 February 2018 02: 05
    +1
    It seems to me that such a problem should have surfaced at the design stage, especially if experiments were conducted with a ship model in the pool.
    1. Valter1364
      Valter1364 24 February 2018 02: 31
      +1
      Yes, with the women, they then swam in the pools.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy 24 February 2018 11: 25
      0
      Quote: kig
      It seems to me

      There is such a thing as sopromat. Here she says that such problems can only be identified by field tests.
      Will you argue with sopromat?
      There is such a thing as metal science. She talks about the growth of geometric deviations in the process of calming the metal. This determines the duration of sea trials in the absence of aged metal. And the exposure period is still 80-90 years.
      Will you argue with metal science?
      And the third whale, financial, explains why they gave the materials to lie down for 10 years, at the same time having completed the obviously calculable operation with the Mistrals.
      1. kig
        kig 24 February 2018 14: 31
        0
        I will not argue with sopromat. However, I’ll ask you to suggest how sopromat can help with sea trials of the vessel, especially the first in the series.
        The purpose of sea trials is to check the specification parameters and operating modes of the equipment (main power plant, steering and anchor devices, navigation aids, sonar and radio communications), as well as the seaworthiness of the vessel. Inspection and final acceptance of equipment are carried out on the ship under conditions that ensure the receipt of nominal parameters.
        And about the metal fatigue and all sorts of shrinkage that drag out sea trials ... it’s you who have gone too far. Although about the financial side I agree 100%.
  24. MadCat
    MadCat 24 February 2018 02: 14
    +4
    Earlier, the tests of the Ivan Gren BDK of the 11711 project were suspended. One of the reasons is connected with the identification of problems when the ship is moving in reverse.

    and these people still laugh at the deadlocks. Indeed, the logs were not even noticed. fellow
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 24 February 2018 11: 09
      0
      Quote: MadCat
      and these people still laugh at the deadlocks.

      Vashcheta, the ship on the move. It has flaws in maneuvering, which is quite normal over the next 40 years - see metal science.
      And your nautilus is still worth it.
  25. Valter1364
    Valter1364 24 February 2018 02: 29
    +1
    He cried and laughed
    That bristled like a hedgehog
    He mocked us
    Well crazy what you take.
  26. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 24 February 2018 11: 03
    0
    After re-reading the comments, I came to the conclusion that it is better to present the Ship to the non-brothers as an appendage to the cruiser of the same name.
    Hai will be pleased ...
    But I have a small question for shipbuilders and sailors;
    Isn’t it easier to use diesel generators and throttle groups?
    I apologize in advance, amateur, but it’s more convenient than b ...
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 24 February 2018 12: 05
      0
      Quote: Ace of Diamonds
      Isn’t it easier to use diesel generators and throttle groups?

      16CHN26 / 26 and there are diesel generators. Well, if cho.
  27. Misha Honest
    Misha Honest 24 February 2018 11: 51
    0
    Quote: Mestny
    No, a citizen simply does not understand what he is writing about.
    In fact, it sounds something like this - "Help Putin - vote for Grudinin!"

    And I think that you are talking nonsense. request Do you have any logic in your words?
  28. sogdy
    sogdy 24 February 2018 12: 03
    0
    Misha Honest,
    You are something funny today nipadetski. Take another 100 grams.
  29. 3officer
    3officer 24 February 2018 12: 30
    0
    Quote: sogdy

    Let me ask, at what “engines”, if 16CHN26 / 26 - a diesel generator? After 14 years, the difference is usually understood. At a normal level of development.

    What’s the battle of the hookhats here? You would be the head of the design bureau who was engaged in the installation and development of these "diesel-engine-generators", as if there were no problems belay And then somehow arrogantly here in the heat of the heat labels on age and mental development hung everyone recourse as the ultimate truth no less wassat
    1. kig
      kig 28 February 2018 03: 58
      0
      Everywhere it is said that the main engine of the BDK is 10D49 in the amount of 2 pieces, and some garbage is indicated in the article. Someone mixed up there.
  30. dgonni
    dgonni 24 February 2018 12: 36
    -1
    Apparently hydraulics :). The interchange of engines has inherently changed the processes of flow around the rudders in reverse. I see only one reason. Oversized rotation motors. If so ? then everything is fine. Tests in the experimental pool showed that the rearrangement of the engines will give the same effect as the alteration of the steering complex but for much less money. Here you go!
  31. roofing hedgehog
    roofing hedgehog 24 February 2018 12: 43
    0
    they initially confused the engines? some nonsense. the head .. the engines are left or right, the propellers are sharpened only for the correct rotation of the engine shaft count .. initially, the reverse gear will always be smaller than the front one + slight reverse vibration is possible ..
  32. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 24 February 2018 16: 35
    +1
    Yes, even such a BDK project is good, in our economy it’s a spoon of honey.
  33. gukoyan
    gukoyan 25 February 2018 04: 58
    0
    Damn, how much longer will they mess with him?
    Do, do, but the meaning ...?
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