Military Review

How the Germans occupied the western part of Russia

56
"... There is no doubt that our army at the moment and in the coming weeks (and probably in the coming months) is absolutely unable to successfully repel the German offensive ..."
V. Lenin



18 February 1918, the troops of the German bloc on the Eastern Front launched an offensive. As a result, by the summer of 1918, the Austro-German invaders occupied the Baltic States, Ukraine, the Crimea, the Don Region, part of the Taman Peninsula, part of the Voronezh and Kursk provinces.

The split among the Bolsheviks on the issue of peace with Germany

By mid-January 1918, a split was formed in the RSDLP (B.): A group of “left-wing communists,” headed by N. I. Bukharin, began to insist on rejecting German demands. The main argument of the “Left Communists” was that the socialist revolution in Russia would perish without an immediate revolution in the countries of Western Europe. They did not allow any agreements with the imperialist states and demanded to declare a “revolutionary war” to international imperialism, at the same time they declared their readiness to “go for the possibility of losing Soviet power” in the name of “the interests of the international revolution”. A number of Bolshevik leaders opposed the shameful conditions for Russia proposed by Germany: N. I. Bukharin, F. E. Dzerzhinsky, M. S. Uritzky, A. S. Bubnov, K. B. Radek, A. A. Ioffe, N. N. Krestinsky, N. V. Krylenko, N. I. Podvoisky, etc.

People's Commissariat of LD Leonid Trotsky put forward an "intermediate" platform "neither peace nor war" - "We stop the war, do not make peace, demobilize the army." In fact, he provoked the Germans to continue the war in order to crisis the Soviet government and strengthen their own positions in the party and the state. Part of the "Left Communists" supported Trotsky.

V. Lenin insists on accepting the German demands by publishing "Theses on Peace" on 7 (20) in January. At a meeting of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) 11 (24) in January, Lenin clearly and clearly expressed the essence of the position of Soviet Russia: “For a revolutionary war, an army is needed, but we have no army ... There is no doubt the peace that we are forced to make now, if war breaks out, our government will be swept away and peace will be concluded by another government. ” Stalin, Sergeev, Sokolnikov supported the signing of the peace. The “Left Communists”, temporarily rejecting the slogan of an immediate “revolutionary war” (only two people voted for it), gave the ballot to Trotsky’s proposal, which received 9 votes against 7. Then Lenin made a proposal for all sorts of tightening of the negotiations, which was adopted by a majority vote.

The Bolsheviks were in a desperate situation: it was impossible to fight — the German divisions could have rendered peace in Petrograd a few days after the outbreak of hostilities, but they could not make peace — most local councils opposed it. If the Soviets in the frontline areas demanded peace at any cost, fearing occupation and seeing the collapse of the front and the nearest rear, then the Soviets in the depths of Russia, especially Siberia and the Far East, shouted about a revolutionary war, completely unaware of the situation. As a result, before the third stage of the negotiations, Trotsky's formula “no war - no peace” was supported by Lenin.

The Ukrainian factor

Meanwhile, another 28 December 1917 (January 10 1918) a delegation of the Ukrainian Central Council arrived in Brest-Litovsk. Ukrainian nationalists did not stand on ceremony and demanded the accession to Ukraine of the Kholm region (which was part of Poland) and Galicia and Bukovina belonging to Austria-Hungary. The Ukrainian delegation decided to take advantage of the plight of the powers of the German bloc - internal problems, the need for peace on the Eastern Front and difficult negotiations with the Soviet government, as well as the need for food supplies from Little Russia-Ukraine. The Austro-German side insisted that they reduce their demands and confine themselves to the Kholmshchina alone, agreeing that Bukovina and Eastern Galicia establish autonomy under the rule of the Hapsburgs.

9 (22) January 1918, the Central Council, against the background of the onset of the Soviet offensive against Kiev, declared the UNR "independent, independent, free, sovereign state of the Ukrainian people." By January 15 (28) the Red Army approached Kiev, and in the city itself an uprising began at the Arsenal plant. In other parts of Kiev, the Red Guard detachments also revolted. January 20 (February 2) the uprising in the streets of Kiev was put down, only its main stronghold, the Arsenal plant, held out. After a bloody assault, the plant was taken by the troops of Simon Petliura on January 22 (February 4). Hundreds of rebels were shot.

However, the defeat of the uprising did not save the CR. Soviet power was established throughout the Left-Bank Ukraine. 22 January (4 February), on the day of the suppression of the Bolshevik uprising in Kiev, the troops of M. A. Muravyov approached the city and entrenched in Darnitsa, after which they began shelling the city. The head of the General Secretariat (Council of Ministers) of the Central Council V.K. Vinnichenko and members of his cabinet got tired, resigned and, together with the President of the Central Committee M. S. Grushevsky, fled from Kiev. The power was seized by two students - Golubovich, who became the head of the “government”, and Kovenko, who became the commandant of Kiev. For some time they rather actively defended Kiev, but having convinced of the senselessness of this business, they got into cars and drove off to Zhytomyr. January 26 (February 8) Soviet troops occupied Kiev.

Germany was under pressure from the Entente, the population was starving, the Germans and Austrians urgently needed food, and it could be found in Little Russia. Therefore, the German government could not allow the Bolsheviks to take up in the Kiev region. Therefore, on January 27 (February 9) the German and Austro-Hungarian delegations signed a separate peace treaty with the delegation of the Central Council. On behalf of the Rada, the contract was signed by the dropout student A. Sevruk.

In exchange for military assistance in ousting Soviet troops from the territory of the UNR, the CR committed to supply Germany and Austria-Hungary until July 31 1918 a million tons of grain, 400 million eggs, up to 50 thousand tons of cattle meat, lard, sugar, hemp, manganese ore, etc. Austria-Hungary also committed to create an autonomous Ukrainian region in Eastern Galicia. The borders between the UNR and Austria-Hungary under this treaty coincided with the pre-war ones between the Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary. Within the limits of the future Poland, they were to be finally recognized by a joint commission based on ethnographic relations and the interests of the population.

On January 31 (February 13) in Brest, the delegation of the UNR appealed to Germany and Austria-Hungary for UNR assistance against the Soviet troops. The German command gave its preliminary consent to enter the war against the Bolsheviks and began to actively prepare for the march on Ukraine.

How the Germans occupied the western part of Russia

Ukrainian delegation in Brest-Litovsk, from left to right: N. Lyubinsky, V. Golovich, N. Levitsky, Lyussenti, M. Polosov and A. Sevryuk

The signing of the Brest Peace Treaty between the Ukrainian People’s Republic and the Central Powers. Sit in the middle from left to right: Ottokar Czernin, Richard von Kühlmann and Vasil Radoslavov

German ultimatum

27 - January 28 (February 9 - 10) the German side negotiated in an ultimatum tone, but did not present an official ultimatum. As soon as they learned about the signing of a peace agreement with the Central Rada in Berlin, Kaiser Wilhelm II categorically demanded that the Soviet delegation immediately submit an ultimatum about accepting German peace conditions with the rejection of the Baltic regions to the Narva-Pskov-Dvinsk line. That is, the Soviet government was demanded to cede unoccupied parts of Estonia and Latvia.

Kühlmann made a categorical demand for the Soviet delegation to immediately sign the world on German terms. The pretext for this ultimatum was the appeal of Trotsky to the German soldiers, allegedly intercepted in Berlin, urging them to "kill the emperor and the generals and to fight with the Soviet troops." The Soviet delegation still had the opportunity to tighten the negotiations, but Trotsky 28 January rejected the German conditions of peace, putting forward the slogan "Neither peace nor war: we do not sign peace, we stop the war, and we demobilize the army." This position of Trotsky provided complete freedom of action in Germany and Austria-Hungary. Kühlmann responded by saying that the non-signing of a peace treaty by Russia would automatically entail the termination of the truce. After this statement, the Soviet delegation pointedly left the negotiations.

On the same day, Trotsky, without the consent of the SNK, sent a telegram to the commander-in-chief Krylenko, in which he demanded to issue an order immediately to the active army to end the state of war with the powers of the German bloc and to demobilize the Russian army. Krylenko also without agreement with SNK early in the morning of 29 in January of 1918 (11 in February of 1918) issued and sent on all fronts an order to cease hostilities and to demobilize the army. This order of Trotsky contributed to the final collapse of the Russian front and the German invasion.

German invasion plans

5 (18) January, the headquarters of the German Eastern Front, at the direction of the German High Command, began preparations for an offensive operation in the Petrograd direction, codenamed “Fauststlag” (“Punch”). German generals built their plans on the basis of the strategy of a lightning war. The German command expected that the collapse of the Russian army and the advance of the German troops into the depths of Russia would lead to the rapid fall of Soviet Russia. At the end of January, Hindenburg also approved an offensive plan on the Ukrainian front.

January 31 (February 13) Kaiser Wilhelm II held a meeting with representatives of the imperial government and high command in Homburg, which was to finally decide on the resumption of hostilities against Soviet Russia. Ludendorff spoke in favor of an offensive that was supposed to liberate divisions on the Eastern Front for the transfer to the French theater in order to organize a strategic offensive; maintain the agreement with Ukraine and ensure the supply of Germany and Austria-Hungary at the expense of the Russian regions; crush or extremely weaken the Soviet government.

There were also those who doubted the need for a decisive offensive. Kühlmann believed that immediate intervention and even the occupation of Petrograd would immediately cause internal complications in Germany. Kühlmann proposed to limit himself initially to the support of the internal counter-revolution in Russia. Vice-Chancellor Payer noted: “We can start, but how to finish?” The vast spaces of Russia, the possibility of guerrilla war and the disintegration of the Austro-German forces themselves were a mortal threat to the German military machine.

However, the Kaiser supported the demands of Ludendorff. At the same time, they decided to cover up the invasion with the help of the Russians in the struggle against the Bolsheviks. The meeting spoke about the danger of Bolshevism, the need to "destroy the Bolsheviks," that "the center of the revolutionary plague must be eliminated by force weapons". The meeting adopted the date of the expiration of a truce with Russia - February 17. The offensive was scheduled simultaneously in three directions - Petrograd (in the Baltic States), central (in Belarus) and southern (in Ukraine, together with the Austrians). According to the developed plan, it was supposed to occupy the entire Baltic states up to Narva and provide armed support to Finland. It was also decided to occupy Ukraine, to liquidate Soviet power in the occupied territories and to start exporting grain and raw materials. It was decided to use the “non-signing of a peace treaty by Trotsky” as a formal motive for ending the ceasefire. By February 18, the 81,5 infantry and 18 cavalry divisions of the Fourth Union countries were on the Eastern Front (excluding the Turkish army in the Caucasus).

In the evening of February 16, the German command officially declared to the remaining Soviet representative in Brest-Litovsk that at the 12 hours of the day on February 18 the truce between Russia and Germany ends and the state of war resumes. According to the terms of the truce concluded by 2 (15) of December 1917, in the event one of the parties intends to terminate the agreement, she should have warned the other party 7 days before the outbreak of hostilities. The Germans violated this condition. The Soviet government protested to the German government over the violation of the armistice terms, but there was no response.


Austrian troops are parade on Nikolaev Boulevard, Odessa. 1918 year

Invasion

18 February, the troops of the German bloc on the Eastern Front launched an offensive on the entire front from the Baltic Sea to the Carpathians. The German troops that entered the territory of Ukraine (the Austro-Hungarian army began the offensive a week later) gradually advanced in the eastern and southern directions, without encountering any noticeable resistance from the front units of the former Russian imperial army or the Soviet troops. Front-line units have already been completely decomposed by revolutionary and nationalist propaganda. In the Caucasus, the Turkish army, violating the truce, launched the 12 offensive in February in the direction of the pre-war Russian-Turkish border, in order to occupy the territory of the Transcaucasus and further advance into the North Caucasus.

Russia did not have the armed forces capable of restraining their onslaught. In the evening of the same day, at a meeting of the Central Committee of the party after a bitter struggle with the "Left Communists", the majority (7 for, 5 against, 1 abstained) favored the signing of peace. February 19, at the initiative of Lenin, SNK sent a radiogram to Berlin, in which he protested against the German invasion and agreed to sign peace on the terms of Germany.

At the same time, under the leadership of the Bolsheviks, work began in preparation for repelling the German-Austrian attack. February 20 SNK appealed with an appeal "To the Toiling Population of All Russia", in which he declared that the Soviet people, although ready to accept the conditions of peace, are determined to fight the invaders. On the same day, the Temporary Executive Committee of the CPC, headed by Lenin, was created, authorized to resolve operational issues of defense. February 21 published a decree of the Council of People's Commissars "The Socialist Fatherland is in danger!" The Soviets and Revolutionary Organizations were required to "protect every position until the last drop of blood," to destroy food supplies that could fall into the hands of the enemy. The railroad workers were ordered to divert rolling stock to the east, destroy railways and railway buildings during the retreat. The mobilization of workers and peasants for digging trenches was announced. Emergency measures were taken to provide the existing troops with food, to establish military production and to strengthen the rear. In large cities, volunteers enrolled in the Red Army. Formed units of the Red Army were sent to the most threatened sectors of the front - under Narva, Revel and Pskov.

The German offensive quickly unfolded across the front. February 18 was occupied by Dvinsk, February 19 - Lutsk and Rivne, February 21 - Minsk and Novograd-Volynsky, February February 24 - Zhytomyr. Austro-Hungarian troops invaded the territory of Ukraine 25 February, crossing the border rivers Zbruch and Dniester, and immediately occupied the cities of Kamyanets-Podilsky and Hotin. The Austrians, advancing on the Odessa direction along the Lviv-Ternopil-Zhmerynka-Vapnyarka railway, quickly occupied Podolia, meeting only small Soviet units at Vinnitsa and Zhmerinka in early March.


Parts of the Austro-Hungarian army enter Kamenetz

February 23 received a response from the German government, containing even more severe conditions. The new ultimatum consisted of 10 points. If the first two repeated the previous demands, in others, Russia was required to completely clear Livonia and Estland, recognize the Central Government are happy and withdraw troops from Ukraine and Finland, and also withdraw all troops from Turkey and return the Anatolian provinces to it. In addition, the Russian army was subject to complete demobilization, all ships were to return to the ports and disarm, and in the Arctic Ocean before the conclusion of peace a German blockade was established. For the adoption of this ultimatum was given two days. On the same day, a meeting of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (B) was held. 7 members of the Central Committee voted for the immediate signing of the Germanic terms of the world, 4 voted against, and four abstained. The Central Committee unanimously decided to immediately prepare for the defense of the socialist fatherland. On the same day, Lenin spoke at a joint meeting of the factions of the Bolsheviks and Left Socialist-Revolutionaries of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, at the Bolshevik faction, and then at the meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee. In a fierce struggle against the Left Social Revolutionaries (at the meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee they voted against the conclusion of peace), the Mensheviks and Right-wing Socialist-Revolutionaries and the “Left Communists” he won the approval of the Central Executive Committee’s decision of the party’s Central Committee. On the night of February 24, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the SNK of the RSFSR accepted the German conditions.

Meanwhile, the interventionists continued. In the Caucasus, Turkish troops captured the cities of Erzincan, Bayburt, Ardahan. February 24 Turks occupied Trapezund, February 27 was left Erzerum. With the fall of Erzurum, the Turks actually regained control over all of Western Armenia. February 25 Germans took Revel, February 28 - Pskov, March 1 - Kiev and Gomel, March 5 - Mogilev. The long-standing dream of the Austrian and German politicians came true: "Od Kiyev to Berlin, Prostagla Ukraine." In Kiev, settled the main apartment of the German command, headed by Field Marshal Hermann von Eichgorn. Eichhorn headed the occupation administration of most of the occupied regions of Ukraine, with the exception of parts of the Volyn, Podolsk, Kherson and Yekaterinoslav provinces, transferred under the control of the Austro-Hungarian administration.

On February 28, the Soviet delegation headed by G.Ya. Sokolnikov arrived in Brest-Litovsk and immediately made a strong protest against the violation of the armistice terms by Germany and its allies. In response to this, the new head of the German delegation, F. Rosenberg, stated that hostilities would end only after the signing of a peace treaty. March 1 resumed peace talks. 3 March was signed the Brest-Litovsk peace treaty.

March 3 launched an attack on the Poltava direction. As a result of the onset of the Austro-Hungarian troops 13 March, Odessa was occupied. March 12 Germans occupied Chernigov, 15 - Bakhmach, 27 - Gadyach, April 1 - Sumy and Ahtyrka. 29 March Poltava was in the hands of the Germans. In the southern direction, German troops 17 of March occupied Kherson, and 19-th - Nikolaev. German troops moved east. After the 3 fights of April, Yekaterinoslav was taken, and the 8 of April - Kharkov. By the end of April, the entire territory of the UNR was under the control of the German and Austro-Hungarian armies.

In the second half of April, the offensive on the Crimea began. German troops occupied Perekop and invaded the Crimea. At the same time, an uprising of Crimean Tatars began throughout the peninsula. The Sevastopol fortress was the second strongest in Russia, had powerful weapons and even without fleet could resist the enemy for a long time. With the presence of the Russian fleet, which had an advantage on the Black Sea, the Germans would not be able to take Sevastopol. But in Russia there was confusion, discipline and order, as well as strong central authority (the Bolsheviks had yet to restore their order). The revolutionary "brothers" with great pleasure robbed and slaughtered the bourgeois, but did not want to fight anymore. There were almost no officers left in the Russian Navy. Therefore, some decided to drape, while others decided to negotiate with the Germans. The Bolsheviks decided to withdraw the fleet to Novorossiysk and to implement this plan they released Admiral Sablin from prison. When the Germans reached Sevastopol, Sablin took some of the ships to Novorossiysk. Part of the ships remained, many of them were not manned.

On the night of May 1, the German cruisers Geben and Breslau took up positions in front of Sevastopol. 1 May German soldiers marched into the city. Also 1 in May was abandoned by Soviet troops Taganrog, 8 in May fell Rostov-on-Don. At the end of May, German troops landed on the Taman Peninsula. In May, German troops began landing in Georgia.

Results

As a result, by the summer of 1918, the Austro-German invaders occupied the entire Baltic region, Ukraine, the Crimea, the Don region, part of the Taman peninsula, part of the Voronezh and Kursk provinces. The front stabilized along the Bataysk-Don-Northern Donets-Degtevo-Osinovka-Novobelaya-Valuyki-Grushevka-Belgorod-Sudzha-Rylsk line. By agreement of 29 in March of 1918, the part of the Volyn, Podolsk, Kherson and Yekaterinoslav provinces were part of the occupation of Austro-Hungary. At the same time, management and operation of coal and mining areas were joint here. Nikolaev, Mariupol and Rostov-on-Don were occupied by mixed units - the German command in Nikolaev and Rostov-on-Don, the Austro-Hungarian - in Mariupol. The remaining provinces of Ukraine, Crimea, and Taganrog were occupied by German troops. Railway and water transport throughout the occupied territory was placed under the control of the Germans.

In Ukraine, the occupiers decided to replace the Central Council with a more efficient local government. Field Marshal Eichhorn decided to give Ukraine a hetman. For this position, the Germans chose a rich landowner, a mason, Lieutenant General Pavel Petrovich Skoropadsky. The hetman's “election” of 29 on April 1918 of the year in Krutikov’s circus (very symbolic) on Nikolayevskaya Street in Kiev. In the circus gathered "voters", they asked to save Ukraine from chaos and "shouted" Hetman Skoropadsky. The Central Council was dispersed by the German guard (an indicator of its "power"). Not a single person came to the defense of the Rada. The hetman era began - another “power” of traitors to popular interests. It was a screen for the Germans, behind which the robbery of Little Russia was carried out. The hetman himself lived in the house of the Kiev governor-general. And under the office of the hetman on the second floor was located the premises of the German guard. So Skoropadsky was sitting on German bayonets in the literal and figurative sense.

The Baltic was occupied by the Germans and was regarded as a colony of the Second Reich. On the initiative of the German occupation authorities 8 in March 1918, the Courland Landtag was elected in Mitau, the majority of deputies were German nobles and rich burghers. Landtag decided to proclaim the German Kaiser of Duchy under the scepter. March 15 Wilhelm recognized the Duchy of Courland as an independent state. On April 12, in Riga, at the joint meeting of Livonia, Estland, the city of Riga and the island of Ezel, the creation of the Baltic Duchy was announced (it also included the Duchy of Courland). And also about the separation of Estonia and Latvia from Russia, the establishment of a personal union of the Baltic Duchy with Prussia. Heinrich Hohenzollern, brother of the German Kaiser, became the ruler of the Baltic duchy. The only official language for office work and school education was German. As in Little Russia and in the Crimea, in the Baltic States, the Germans exported everything valuable, including timber.

Germany's interests spread to the Caucasus. Kaiser Wilhelm emphasized: "Georgia must be included in the Reich in one form or another." 27 April 1918 Germany forced Turkey to sign a secret agreement in Constantinople on the division of spheres of influence. Turkey departed the south-western part of Georgia and almost the whole of Armenia, the rest of the Transcaucasus was taken over by Germany. 28 May, the Georgian government was recognized by Germany. In Poti, six treaties were signed, according to which Germany received a monopoly on the exploitation of Georgia’s economic resources, and the port of Poti and the railway came under the control of the German command. 10 June Germanic troops entered Tiflis. German interventionists took control of the mail, telegraph, banks, military and financial departments. German instructors were attached to the Georgian army. Germany began to plunder local resources.


German troops in Kiev. March 1918 of the year
Author:
Articles from this series:
1918 Campaign

US world domination strategy
Turkish invasion of Transcaucasia. “Thousands of Russians were shot and burned alive. Armenians are subjected to indescribable torture”
Romanian invasion of Bessarabia
How Romanian executioners exterminated Russian soldiers
German "fist strike" for the purpose of occupation of the western part of Russia
56 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Alber
    Alber 26 February 2018 06: 33
    +5
    Where Trotsky is, there is meanness, betrayal, blood and genocide
    1. dSK
      dSK 26 February 2018 06: 56
      +2
      Christ was crucified again, and he again rose.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 26 February 2018 07: 11
    +6
    As a result, by the summer of 1918 the Austro-German invaders occupied the entire Baltic, Ukraine, Crimea, the Don region, part of the Taman Peninsula, part of the Voronezh and Kursk provinces.

    The logical result of the activities of those who did not understand ANYTHING in anything, neither in diplomacy, nor in politics, nor in the army, nor in governing the country.
    Undoubtedly, the world that we are forced to conclude now is an obscene world, but if war begins, then is our the government will swept away and peace will be made another government».

    The fact that it is more important for the country to preserve MYSELF, and not some government, did not occur to grandpa.
    For the sake of preserving their power, the Bolsheviks went to the most shameful betrayal of Russia, instantly turning the country from a member of the Entente winner into an international outcast rejected by all. Which led to the isolation of the country, countless wars with neighbors and inside the country, to the absolute loss of Russia's influence on security in Europe and, accordingly, ultimately to WWII.
    1. avt
      avt 26 February 2018 10: 10
      +9
      Quote: Olgovich
      The logical result of the activities of those who did not understand ANYTHING in anything, neither in diplomacy, nor in politics, nor in the army, nor in governing the country.

      The result of the activities of the Provisional Government, which carried out a coup d'état coupled with scum generals, led by the head of the General Staff Alekseev, which for the sake of a momentary showdown for power and grandmother
      Quote: Olgovich
      The fact that the country is more important to save YOURSELF, and not some government

      Just as now, some self-proclaimed nobles from the noble assembly of the Proletarian region cannot reach the idea that the COUNTRY and the GOVERNMENT are inseparable things. There is no central government - there is no country, that’s not all, despite the presence of the name and pictures. There are no countries without a government system and if you “temporarily” ruin it a little bit, but in wartime, with good intentions send the population to hell. As the aforementioned liberal bastard did with the senile generals in February 1917. The Bolsheviks simply picked up the remnants of the state from the mud and began to redraw It’s bloody, but in a different way, no one else had it. And they did pretty well, unlike Nikolashka, the First World Warraiser, together with silverware, came out of World War II as the victors. Although the war was already different, fierce order - to destroy.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 26 February 2018 10: 53
        +4
        Quote: avt
        ............. As well as now, some self-proclaimed nobles from the noble assembly of the Proletarian district could not reach the idea ...................... .......... with good intentions send the population to hell. As the aforementioned liberal bastard did with the senile generals in February 1917 ..
        But weren't coupons, shock therapy, artificial shortages, zeroing of the population’s funds, and thieves' privatization not such hell? Anologues with the events of the 90s are visible to the naked eye.
        When I read articles about that time, it’s always surprising how the Bolsheviks were able to save the country at that time on such a huge territory, without modern communications and having the transport of that time? It’s just from a series of impossible. However, this happened and it is brilliant. !! !
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 26 February 2018 11: 39
        +4
        Quote: avt
        The result of the activities of the Provisional Government, which committed a coup in

        Dear avt, do you think that the collapse of the army is the result of the activities of the Provisional Government? That is, in your history, the Bolsheviks did not conduct anti-war propaganda in 1917?
        Quote: avt
        There is no central government - there is no country, that’s not all, despite the presence of the name and pictures.

        In 1917, the government was — The Provisional Government. Which its functions, at the very least, but fulfilled. The Finnish Senate, which in July 1917 tried to declare independence, was dispersed by Russian troops. VP pressed on the Ukrainian “rad”, forcing her to recognize herself as a controlled VP.
        Quote: avt
        The Bolsheviks simply picked up the remnants of the state from the mud

        What are the “leftovers”? When the state was completely intact. You say that autonomy is equivalent to the collapse of the state? But autonomy is an integral part of the state. Look at the modern world — Scotland as part of the UK has its own parliament, a mint and is autonomy. Does this mean that Britain is breaking up?
        Spain has a number of autonomous regions. Is modern Spain the “remnants” of a state?
        The Bolsheviks simply staged an armed coup, like terrorists, without worrying about the appearance of a legitimate transfer of power. In the same way, Bandera acted in Kiev in February 2014.
        Quote: avt
        unlike Nikolashka the First World

        Avt, tell me what reality do you live in? Where is the document fixing the defeat of the Russian Empire, signed by Emperor All-Russian Nicholas II Alexandrovich?
        The Brest Treaty, I want to remind you, was not the Emperor, but the Bolshevik usurpers who signed.
        1. avt
          avt 26 February 2018 12: 36
          +4
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Do you think that the collapse of the army is the result of the activities of the Provisional Government?
          Final apotheosis of the military coup of February 1917
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          That is, in your history, the Bolsheviks did not conduct anti-war propaganda in 1917?

          Veli and what? With the functioning of the repressive apparatus, and any state is violence. But it was YOUR blue princes who did EVERYTHING to discredit the authorities, much more than all revolutionaries combined, with their frank sabotage and total budget theft on military orders. And the Bolsheviks, too, sabotage and artificial disruption of food supplies to the capital, which caused the riot done ?
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          What reality do you live in?

          That's real fool What
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Where is the document fixing the defeat of the Russian Empire, signed by Emperor All-Russian Nicholas II Alexandrovich?

          from Nikolashka, “Bloody”, who didn’t even have the courage to fulfill his DUTY and at least simply did not sign anything to the conspirators, not even letters. But not according to Senka’s cap of Monomakhov.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          The Brest Treaty, I want to remind you, was not the Emperor, but the Bolshevik usurpers who signed.

          So what ? Yes, they did everything right - it’s not enough to take power, it still needs to be kept, which they did very well creating the USSR. Which merged just like the Empire. in feral under hooting about inefficiency
          Quote: Reptiloid
          But weren't coupons, shock therapy, artificial shortages, zeroing of the population’s funds, and thieves' privatization not such hell? Anologues with the events of the 90s are visible to the naked eye.

          The same shallow grass scum.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 26 February 2018 13: 26
            +4
            Quote: avt
            Final apotheosis of the military coup of February 1917

            Are you ready to blame anyone to whitewash the Bolsheviks? Once again I ask — is this the coupists who were conducting anti-war agitation? Or do you need to recall how the Kerensky government restored the death penalty by putting things in order in the units promoted by the Bolsheviks?
            Quote: avt
            With the functioning of the repressive apparatus, and any state is violence. But it’s YOUR ,, blue princes "who did EVERYTHING

            What are you trying to accuse the Provisional Government of not organizing mass repressions? Like, "citizen is the boss, is he guilty?"
            As for the princes and the imperial elite as a whole ... they actually did everything for the Victory. They established the production of military products, eliminating shell hunger by 1916. They defeated the Turkish army in the Caucasus. The very one that smashed the English-French landing in Gallipoli. They defended Riga for two years from the Germans. They brought Austria-Hungary to the brink of defeat, forcing the Germans to plug holes in the Austrian front with their corps. Where do you see the discredit of the authorities ... decidedly incomprehensible.
            Quote: avt
            who didn’t even have the courage to fulfill his DUTY and at least just nothing to the conspirators

            The emperor actually put telegrams on the table testifying to the beginning disintegration of the rear. He fulfilled his duty. So, as anyone in his place would understand this Duty, he transferred power to a compromise figure to his brother, refusing (as he expected) from the Throne in exchange for paying off the fratricidal massacre in the rear of a warring army. For him, victory in the war was more important than personal power. Nobody could foresee Mikhail’s cowardice and further chaos at that moment. Absolutely nobody.
            Quote: avt
            So what ? Yes, they did everything right - it’s not enough to take power, it still needs to be held

            Hm. That is, doesn’t it bother you that as a result of this “retention of power” Russia lost a hefty part of the industrialized territories, and the efforts of millions of Russian people who defended the country went to pieces? Not to mention the fact that Russia, because of the treacherous Brest peace, did not fall into the number of victorious countries in WWI and shamefully lost the war to the losing state.
            1. avt
              avt 26 February 2018 14: 45
              +4
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Are you ready to blame anyone to whitewash the Bolsheviks? Once again I ask — is this the coupists who were conducting anti-war agitation? Or do you need to recall how the Kerensky government restored the death penalty by putting things in order in the units promoted by the Bolsheviks?

              Place the sequence of connection between cause and effect in your brain, then you can begin to understand what Az sinful writes about, otherwise Jacob will remain in the same company with the pharisees
              Quote: Gopnik
              The Bolsheviks signed the Brest surrender a year after the overthrow of the emperor, 4 months after the overthrow of the Provisional Government,
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 26 February 2018 15: 19
                +5
                Quote: avt
                Place in your brain the sequence of connection between cause and effect

                It is strange to hear such advice from a person who does not see this connection between rotting agitation, coupled with the seizure of power and the defenselessness of the country, as well as claiming that Emperor Nicholas II lost the WWII, despite the fact that while the Emperor was in power, Russian troops stood on the territory hostile to Turkey and Austria and held the front against Germany.
                PS It is better to be a “Pharisee” than a liar, pouring kilotons of dirt and slander on his homeland and its legitimate sovereign.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 28 February 2018 16: 32
            +1
            Well, yes, bourgeois traitors and thieves in the 90s specifically took into account the failure of their predecessors, the Februaryists. Actually ---- events
            I 90x --- this is a well-prepared coup d'etat, having 25 years of training hidden from the population. WHEN, there were any explanations, but not those that would correspond. In the language of doctors, there is a latent phase. When the disease cannot be diagnosed and stopped.
      3. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 26 February 2018 11: 59
        +10
        avt Today, 10:10 ↑
        The result of the activities of the Provisional Government, which carried out a coup d'état coupled with scum generals, led by the head of the General Staff Alekseev, which for the sake of a momentary showdown for power and grandmother
        What are you speaking about? By definition, this cannot come to his head. A person is in parallel reality and he studies the history of Russia according to manuals, and not according to real facts.
        For him, the Brest peace is like a red rag for a bull. Well, the fact that the king and then the provisional government brought the country to this very world did not associate with him.

        P.S. However, this is not one of Olgovich’s concerns, the voice of parallel reality came out of Teterin.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 26 February 2018 12: 29
          +5
          Of course, no one sane person can come up with this nonsense. The Bolsheviks signed Brest surrender a year after the overthrow of the emperor, 4 months after the overthrow of the Provisional Government, but it was not their fault, but someone else. However, the Bolsheviks and their followers are always so.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 February 2018 16: 17
          +2
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          By definition, this cannot come to his head. Man in parallel reality is

          In parallel and reality you are with a car, if you say this nonsense:
          avt Today, 10:10 ↑
          The result of the Provisional Government committed state переворот
          fool lol
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          For him, the Brest peace is like a red rag for a bull. Well, the fact that the king and then the provisional government brought the country to this very world did not associate with him.

          Russian proverbs do not reach sandcrusts in any way: " You can’t, DO NOT torment! "," Do not know how, DO NOT TAKE! ". Moreover, NOBODY save anything to bald tourists from Europe!
          Neither the Emperor nor the VP spoke of surrender, NOT a WORD, and the front under them stood with 1915 years!
          He collapsed at YOU, after 4 months of your stupid dekkrktov about peace, fraternization, demobilization of the army (during the war fool ), the lack of commanders, which began on October 25, a fratricidal war, the shutdown of almost all factories and the outbreak of famine.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 27 February 2018 02: 26
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            In parallel and reality you are with a car, if you say this nonsense:

            Olgovich, think about your health, the second stage is progressing, after the "dead with braids" your tongue is wedged, only one word "delirium ... delirium ... delirium ..." spins on it
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 27 February 2018 11: 20
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Olgovich, think about your health, the second stage is progressing, after the "dead with braids" your tongue is wedged, only one word "delirium ... delirium ... delirium ..." spins on it

              Crazy people consider themselves to be absolutely healthy people, but they consider others to be sick and always give them such advice:
              Quote: Alexander Green
              think about your health

              Not realizing that these tips are clean
              Quote: Alexander Green
              "delirium ... delirium ... delirium ..."

              hi
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 27 February 2018 15: 53
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                Crazy people consider themselves completely healthy people

                Yes, you’re the only one who’s healthy.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 28 February 2018 07: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Yes, you’re the only one who’s healthy.

                  You are hopeless, but- "hope dies last"
                  Try! hi
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 1 March 2018 01: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You are hopeless, but- "hope dies last"
                    Try!

                    I admire you, you are an “extraordinary” person, you dream of “dead with braids,” but you are still trying to support a comrade.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 March 2018 10: 22
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      you are still trying to support a friend.

                      All people-brothers! yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 2 March 2018 19: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        All people are brothers!
                        You see, I was not mistaken in you, just a little more and you will fight with us for the Third International.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 March 2018 09: 28
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      You see, I was not mistaken in you, just a little more and you will fight with us for the Third International.

                      Yeah:
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      "delirium ... delirium ... delirium ..." yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 4 March 2018 00: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yeah:
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        "delirium ... delirium ... delirium ..."

                        Poor thing, I feel that the disease does not let you go - you express yourself very indistinctly. Specify: I was mistaken in you, or not?
      4. Olgovich
        Olgovich 26 February 2018 12: 20
        +3
        Quote: avt
        The result of the activities of the Provisional Government, which carried out a coup d'état coupled with scum generals, led by the head of the General Staff Alekseev, which for the sake of a momentary showdown for power and grandmother

        Activity Summary temporary the so-called "government" so-called SNK
        Quote: avt
        and the Provisional Government, coup d'etat

        belay fool An alternative story has gone! lol You surpassed even the bald tourist yes
        Quote: avt
        Just as now, some self-proclaimed nobles from the noble assembly of the Proletarian region cannot reach the idea that the COUNTRY and the GOVERNMENT are inseparable things

        so called SNK had no relation to Russia. T.N. "The SNK government existed only for the OCCUPIERS, who used it for everything for their pleasure and profit. NOBODY recognized him anymore, either in the world or in the country.
        Quote: avt
        The Bolsheviks are just picked up from the mud the remnants of the state and began to redraw in their patterns

        Captured by force, the people entrusted the power NOT to them.
        Quote: avt
        Bloody, but differently, no one, no wheree otherwise did not have

        EVERYWHERE was different. And this handful never anywhere a day of idle bogey-blowing bogeyers-just Could NOT ABLE. In addition to the simplest "economic" way: to shoot, select and force.
        Quote: avt
        И did a good job , unlike Nikolashka, the First World War, the one who failed, along with silverware, came out of the Second World War-Patriotic.

        Not bad?! belay fool lol They lost the WWII, the wild civil slaughter was unleashed, tens of millions who died of starvation during their lives, cannibalism and dead-eating, never before seen in Russia, medieval “freedoms” cut across living Russia into tng. "Ukraine" with the forcible transfer to them of the original Russian New Russia, the extinction of Russians since 1964, the Russian Cross and the collapse of 1991. This is all "not bad", yes. fool
        1. avt
          avt 26 February 2018 14: 47
          +6
          Quote: Olgovich
          EVERYWHERE was different.

          It was the same during the Great French, under Cromwell, and in the Civil in the USA with its concentration camps, but our nobles who threw off their bast shoes fool richer with their thoughts.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 26 February 2018 15: 48
            +3
            Quote: avt
            It was the same with the Great French, with Cromwell, and the Civil in USA

            More Ancient Rome remember fool lol THE TWENTIETH CENTURY WAS OUTSIDE! And ANYWHERE of this atrocity and blatant Ignorance-was not.
            Quote: avt
            but our noblemen who have thrown off their bast shoes are getting richer with their thoughts.

            Some thrown off bast shoes erected them ... on the head: they replace them with thoughts. hi lol
      5. Gopnik
        Gopnik 26 February 2018 12: 26
        +4
        You, as usual, however, confuse. The Brest capitulation was signed by the Bolsheviks, 4 months after the seizure of power from the Provisional Government. The interim government, and especially the emperor, did not sign anything like that. This is a fact with which you want it or not, you have to come to terms.
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 26 February 2018 07: 35
    +2
    If you do not delve into the details, in three words: Greed fraer ruined!
    What did Germany and AB cost to throw all the freed resources to the West and achieve an honorable world. As a result, they got Versailles and Hitler!
  4. BAI
    BAI 26 February 2018 09: 35
    +2
    “An army is needed for a revolutionary war, but we don’t have an army ... Undoubtedly, the peace that we are forced to conclude now is a raunchy world, but if the war starts, our government will be swept away and the world will be made by another government.”

    If there is no army, you have to accept the enemy’s conditions. It is good that surrender is not yet unconditional, like Germany in 1945 (only 27 years will pass).
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik 26 February 2018 12: 32
      +2
      Well, if you diligently destroy and destroy the army, then it will never be. The tsar’s father had an army, the provisional government, in spite of the Bolshevik’s activities, at the very least, but also had it, and as the Bolsheviks seized power, hey, and the army didn’t.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 February 2018 13: 45
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      If there is no army - have to take enemy conditions.

      Oh, and what would happen if they didn’t accept? belay
      1. BAI
        BAI 26 February 2018 14: 21
        +3
        Oh, and what would happen if they didn’t accept?

        Lenin wrote very clearly:
        then our government will be swept away and peace will be made by another government

        Probably democratic, liberal, recognizing European values ​​and lace shorts.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 February 2018 15: 44
          +2
          Quote: BAI
          Lenin wrote very clearly:
          then our government will be swept away and peace will be made by another government
          Probably democratic

          So WONDERFUL! This is much better than the medieval illiterate SNK! yes
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 27 February 2018 02: 15
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: BAI
        If there is no army, you have to accept the enemy’s conditions.
        Oh, and what would happen if they didn’t accept?

        Don’t you know? Your ancestors would drink Bavarian beer together with the Germans, and my ancestors would continue to hunch together, but most likely my ancestors would be shot right away.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 February 2018 11: 22
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Don’t you know? Your ancestors would drink Bavarian beer along with the Germans, and my ancestors would continue to hunch on all of you together, but most likely my ancestors would be shot right away.

          Who needs you? fool lol
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 27 February 2018 15: 48
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            Who needs you

            So I about the same: yours would drink Bavarian beer, and ours to the wall. Therefore, my grandfathers defended the socialist fatherland.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 March 2018 09: 31
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              So I about the same: yours would drink Bavarian beer, and ours to the wall. Therefore, my grandfathers defended the socialist fatherland.

              Nobody needs you to shoot, except for you - NOBODY of the 1937s, millions of exiles of peasants, ten million victims of hunger, hundreds of thousands of executions of YOUR citizens - I did NOT.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 4 March 2018 01: 20
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Nobody needs you to shoot

                Well yes? And who then cut the stars on the chest of the Red Army? Drove trains of death in Siberia? Entire villages of peasants in Siberia destroyed? Yes, and your famine in the 30s was also arranged by yours, probably your dad or grandfather in those days was agitating not to join the collective farm, to slaughter the whole cattle so as not to be handed over to the collective farm, but it was advised to sow less so that the Soviet regime would not give bread later. They ate meat during the winter, winter crops did not sow, and spring crops did not sprout due to drought. That hunger has come.
  5. BAI
    BAI 26 February 2018 09: 39
    +5
    Quote: Olgovich
    The logical result of the activities of those who did not understand ANYTHING in anything, neither in diplomacy, nor in politics, nor in the army, nor in governing the country.

    Just understood and very good. They retained an independent state (not under the occupation regime), their power on a large territory of Russia, won back something for 4 years, returned everything in 1939 and rewrote the map of Europe at their discretion in 1945.
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik 26 February 2018 12: 35
      +2
      Well, then, if you look so far, add, and everyone (including their power) lost their way back in 1991. 75 years in vain, because of the idiotic dreams of idiots
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 February 2018 14: 03
      +3
      Quote: BAI
      Just understood and very good. They retained an independent state (not under the occupation regime), their power in a large territory of Russia.

      Let me remind you that Russia existed BEFORE them, and WITHOUT them, for almost THOUSAND YEARS. . And it grew WITHOUT them, from the Principality of Moscow right up to the Pacific Ocean.
      With them, she returned to the borders of the 17th century and came to the extinction of Russian.
      Quote: BAI
      Something played back for 4 years,

      belay
      Quote: BAI
      returned everything - v1939

      Who was returned to? Ukraine, but at the expense of the Russians? Oh, thanks. yes
      By the way, Poland believes that part of Poland was taken away.
      Quote: BAI
      rewrote the map of Europe at its discretion - in 1945.

      Well, yes, they fed the Germans, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, who had just given us genocide, forgave them reparations, crimes and .... got the worst ENEMIES out of them. Again at your own expense.
      Very smart, yes ....
      1. BAI
        BAI 26 February 2018 14: 36
        +4
        Let me remind you that Russia existed BEFORE them, and WITHOUT them, for almost THOUSAND YEARS. . And it grew WITHOUT them, from the Principality of Moscow right up to the Pacific Ocean.

        In the same way as without the kings in general and the Romanovs in particular, and especially the socially revolutionary liberal democrats.
        Who was returned to? Ukraine, but at the expense of the Russians? Oh, thanks

        Yes, please, the USSR was returned, then the difference is who, where, by and large, was not. All were in the Soviet Union.
        Well, yes, they fed the Germans, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, who had just given us genocide, forgave them reparations, crimes and .... got the worst ENEMIES out of them. Again at your own expense.

        And for this I must say thanks to the beacon of global democracy - the United States and the company that joined them. To buy a plant, you do not need to buy the whole plant, just buy its management. Which was done. Gorbachev and others like him (from the democratic public) joyfully sold the interests of the state for their personal interests - all according to Brzezinski: "Against Russia, on the fragments of Russia. At the expense of Russia." What amateurs of Western values ​​are trying to do now.
        And the life span of a state, as a political entity, depends on too many factors. The Saudis still live in an absolute monarchy and not bad. In Libya, Somalia there is no real power at all - the highest form of freedom - anarchy, so what?
        Given the work carried out against the USSR, including by military methods, the USSR still lasted too long. No other state has survived so fast.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 February 2018 15: 59
          +3
          Quote: BAI
          In the same way as without the kings in general and the Romanovs in particular, and especially the socially revolutionary liberal democrats.

          Without kings, Nothing could have happened - DISCOVER THE STORY!
          Quote: BAI
          Yes, please, the USSR was returned, then differences - who, where was not by and large. All were in the Soviet Union.

          As it soon became clear, the difference was HUGE
          Quote: BAI
          And for this I must say thanks to the beacon of global democracy - the United States and the company that joined them. To buy a plant, you do not need to buy the whole plant, just buy its management. Which was done. Gorbachev and others like him (from the democratic public) joyfully sold the interests of the state for their personal interests - all according to Brzezinski: "Against Russia, on the fragments of Russia. At the expense of Russia." What amateurs of Western values ​​are trying to do now.

          As soon as the USSR weakened, all the so-called "friends" from socialist countries-IMMEDIATELY turned into the worst enemies. And they were ALWAYS such: to realize this, it was only necessary to know the history of the country. But not stupid and stupid to feed them at the expense of Russian. On the contrary, they had to be torn until the last screw was restored!
          Quote: BAI
          Given the work carried out against the USSR, including by military methods, the USSR still lasted too long. No other state has survived so fast.

          No one has done such work to destroy the country as the CPSU did!
        2. dSK
          dSK 26 February 2018 21: 55
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          Gorbachev
          - The last "ruling" communist.
          By tradition, does Zyuganov transfer power to b / n Grudinin?
          "Ideological" degradation continues ...
  6. Curious
    Curious 26 February 2018 13: 27
    +5
    Another sketch. And the arena is the same. The Bulk-crunches were built up as a familiar “pig” and, having advanced to the vanguard of the well-known “goldsmiths from history”, the “Bolsheviks ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    How much can you respond to these historical provocations. It seems that everyone is interested in objective coverage of historical events, but they react to any organic matter that is given to the mountain by "acrobats of the pen" solely for the purpose of earning. Do you really want normal publications, and not this Samsonov? Leave you lovers of historical sewage with their favorite habitat. There will be no opponents, they themselves will begin to eat. You look, it will become less.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 26 February 2018 14: 10
      +9
      I agree with a colleague! Previously, he often became a participant in battles, but in recent years I have been trying to do this less and less. Boring, by golly. One and the same from empty to empty. The same cliches, the same juggling and juggling of facts.
      Why Samsonov stamps his articles, here's the question? The real story he miraculously intertwines with some kind of nonsense about the Russian superethnos and this bacchanalia begins to resemble the madhouse of the neighbors with their baby and protoucra.
      Sorry, I didn’t personally want to offend you with this fact, if I understand correctly you are from Ukraine? hi
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 26 February 2018 14: 48
        +2
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        I agree with a colleague! Previously, he often became a participant in battles, but in recent years I have been trying to do this less and less. Bored, by golly

        I rarely agree with you, but this is the case when I fully agree.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        I agree with a colleague! Previously, he often became a participant in battles, but in recent years I have been trying to do this less and less. Bored, by golly

        And this is to the point! good
      2. Curious
        Curious 26 February 2018 14: 56
        +6
        You understand correctly, from Ukraine. And I will tell you in great confidence (you can believe it, you can’t believe it), in Ukraine talk about "ukrov" is considered a sign of flawed hyperpatriotism and have nothing to do with official historiography, as well as the work of Valera Bebika, which is considered a pseudoscientific mythology "a la Fomenko".
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 26 February 2018 15: 01
          +9
          Curious Today, 14: 56 ↑
          And I will say in great secret (you can believe, you can not believe), in Ukraine, talk about "ukrov" is considered a sign of flawed hyperpatriotism
          Why don't I believe you? There are many sane colleagues from Ukraine at VO and you are one of them. hi
          We in Russia are insane, I think, no less than yours, the only question is that ours are so far only eager for power, and you already have them there.

          P.S. I believe that all these near-historical battles should ultimately lead to the same result as in Ukraine.
          1. Curious
            Curious 26 February 2018 15: 25
            +3
            Then I will tell you another secret. The authorities in Ukraine are completely sane. The irresponsible in power can not be. If there were irresponsible, much would be explained quite simply - what demand from idiots. So the problem is more complicated, it’s only Kamenev in “Analyst” that simply explains everything, “analyst”. And the insane, as always, perform the role assigned to them. This is not the first time in history, therefore the place where they will have to rest is well known. But while they are needed in someone else’s layouts, they will support the trend that “they decide something” and “stand at the helm”, throwing appropriate handouts.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 26 February 2018 14: 54
      +4
      Quote: Curious
      Another sketch. And the arena is the same. Bulk Khrusty built a familiar "pig"

      The not-so-good definition of “Bulkohrust”, because for example now in Russia a French baguette costs a penny in retail chains, that is, a social product, or for example yesterday I found out that French buns are very popular in Vietnam and also at a low price, in Vietnam these buns are so let's say an echo of French colonization, so that Bulkohrust is more like a proletarian now! laughing
      1. Curious
        Curious 26 February 2018 15: 01
        +3
        So we are not in Vietnam. And I'm too lazy to come up with new epithets. Everyone understands that.
      2. BAI
        BAI 26 February 2018 17: 44
        +1
        Well, we and McDonald's started as a "fast food restaurant."
  7. glum
    glum 26 February 2018 17: 16
    0
    in principle, an interesting article, but I didn’t see anything new that I would study at school, okroming as a lot of mistakes and as always you need at least something to somehow “prick” the then government of Ukraine. I don’t understand, can’t you write articles claiming historical, and all the rest ????
  8. BAI
    BAI 26 February 2018 17: 43
    0
    And to summarize all that has been said, it is easy to stomp on the failures of the (personally unpleasant to you) government. Much harder to cry success.
  9. samarin1969
    samarin1969 26 February 2018 21: 44
    0
    Judging by the German parade before Tiflis, the Russian people were simply crushed by years of disasters and showed no resistance. It is hard to recall something like this in Russian history. Obviously, at that time no one wanted to fight, and the Germans seemed less plague than the numerous "governments".