Military Review

Mercenaries for the good of Russia. Part of 2

98
Continuing the conversation about mercenaries, I want to touch on several other aspects of their activities. To begin to put the dots over i in matters of the use of PMCs and AF. It is this, despite the numerous explanations of experts, today is the main argument of supporters of the legalization of mercenary.




The main thesis of the PMC defenders was the idea-fix on the execution by mercenaries of the "orders" of the Russian government. Allegedly, the Defense Ministry cannot “shine” its own SSO when performing certain tasks, and PMCs, precisely because of their anonymity, are quite suitable for this. And this nonsense is issued for the ultimate truth.

This approach is largely due to a complete lack of understanding of the essence of the work of the Special Operations Forces. What is reliably known to the layman usually fits in a movie about a scout who penetrated the enemy’s rear, destroyed an important object and caused Aviation (artillery, airborne brigade, etc.) to continue this rout.

This is about the same as what is known about Israeli intelligence. Everyone knows that Mossad is there. But no one can reliably tell about the methods of work. Nevertheless, everyone is sure that these are very cool guys who alone can destroy the huge gangs of terrorists. Because so someone who is close to this special service, once told something to someone. And he told the screenwriter who wrote the script for the film. And we already learned about MOSSAD from the very movie that was shot under this scenario.

Does anyone doubt that there are intelligence specialists from several countries in Syria or in the Donbas? And countries that are not close to these wars? There are no German specialists? French? Some more countries. There are no Russian specialists? They are there. And this is quite normal. Information must be verified. And sometimes, allies simply need sudden help "from God." When no one can understand what happened.

Modern aircraft are fully capable of solving any problem. And it does not light up. Moreover, even in the event of failure, experts from the opposing countries can solve the problem of prisoners or those killed without noise. Opportunities for special services recently showed the visit of our main intelligence officers to the United States. When they spat on all politicians, laws and sanctions. It was necessary - and arrived. Everything. And left, which is typical, also in the same composition.

Politics? Of course. And where without it?

Compare the capabilities of the Armed Forces and the PMCs. Who is the backbone of the PMC employees? Former employees. Army or special services. Former! In other words, those who can no longer perform tasks in the service due to age, injury or lack of professionalism. People who are accustomed to making money for a living this way. Or who like just such a life.

We will not even compare technical capabilities of PMCs and AF. The private trader cannot compete with the state in terms of resources. Including the extraction and development of foreign weapons and equipment. The state has more opportunities all the same.

According to "orders from the state." Do you turn on the mill? You need to carry out some kind of operation. You have strong specialists (army, GRU, it does not matter) who are a head taller than private traders. But, for some (many people in this place write “political”) reasons, you hire weak specialists for huge money. At the same time risking the operation and fill up, and light the nationality of private traders. Where is the logic?

This also applies to "commercial" operations. When it comes to state ownership abroad, the country uses its own aircraft. But private property is a private matter. No wonder that in the majority of contracts of mercenaries it is written about the protection of some objects and countering their seizure. Fools write "engage in hostilities" no. Not yet. They are afraid of the law.

Another argument supporters of PMCs slightly smacks. For some reason, the PMC staff and volunteers equalize. There is no logic in this leveling. Those politically active and courageous people who, at the call of their hearts, went to protect the people of Donbass, did not think about money. Moreover, they drove for their own money. We bought equipment and, to be honest, weapon for your own money. And even, we once wrote about it, fought ukrofashistami on their own.

Yesterday’s article on one of the information resources is very indicative. Interview with a mercenary who allegedly was an employee of PMCs. I apologize to those who really understand what war is, but I will quote a few answers from this article.

"Friends called, signed a contract and went. The combat experience at that time was from Donbass." “Friends suggested it to me. Such a word of mouth. Many who have passed the Donbass are aware of all this.”
"The contract is with the company" EuroPolis ". She is also unofficially" PMC Wagner. "
"At the same time, the third point of the contract is very interesting. It stipulates that we are flying there not as military personnel, but as civilian personnel. That is, oilmen, builders, consultants for the restoration of the SAR infrastructure."


As you can see, what the “vagnerovts” says quite fully explains the essence of his work. But all this is known for a long time. But where is there anything related to Russia? Where is the argument that is often used: ordered? The man himself is looking for where the fish is. Purposefully seeking war.

Next is what I asked for forgiveness above. Let me remind you that this is said by a man who, according to him, fought in the Donbas and in Syria. He fought!

"Then - an item on the voluntary rejection of state awards: medals, orders and crosses." “With regards to casualties, almost every third fighter was“ a load of 200 ”(killed) or“ 300 ”(injured). All because of constant attacks to the forehead.”
"This is Wagner's favorite tactic."
"And, of course, a lot of losses were due to their own stupidity." Spirits "mined everything, in general, everything from the word" absolutely. "
“Another“ perfume ”left the cartridges filled with plastids or TNT. As a result, when firing, the machine burst in their hands" ...


Then everything is in the same vein. I understand the smirks of those who understand. Go in a frontal attack with the help of specialists who have sufficient combat experience? Polish Lancers in German Tanks with sabers bald? Or a bunch of idiots without commanders? Piece specialists in the frontal?

Well, with a full set of awards on the chest to fight - it is simply the duty of the soldier. So that everyone can see who you are and where are you from. And what a hero ... was. Contemporary cinema about the Second World ...

Losses look even funnier. Of course, I understand that I want to present my own "feat in this hell" in a favorable light. But, 30-40% loss is too much even for the media. When storming Koenigsberg losses were less. The Afghan experience has shown that even unexplained soldiers do not suffer such losses. Again I remember about a bunch of idiots ...

And how do you pearl about mining all? Gather things ... Yes, any child in the frontline villages of Donbass knows that this can not be done. And these are not beautiful words. This is a fact that almost all those who fought in any country of the world faced.

But there is in this interview one interesting phrase that is worth dwelling on. It was she who explains the difference between a volunteer and a mercenary. It does not even need to comment. One sentence speaks of the essence of mercenarism in general.

"If in the Donbass they fought for the idea, then there everything comes down to money and no idea smells."

Now back to the detonator of this whole discussion about mercenaries. To sources and people from whom "the wave has gone". Especially since they remembered this in the interview.

"But those sources that are now in the face of Igor Strelkov and Mikhail Polynkov, I believe they can be trusted, since Strelkov himself has many colleagues in Wagner served and serves."

We will not dispute the military merits of Girkin. He fought by virtue of his understanding of war. Protected ... Including the Donbass. I risked my life. Condemn him or praise stupid. There are no soldiers who would not suffer defeat. Just as there is no one who always wins. War "off the couch" is always easier.

But the transformation of his comrades in the Donbas mercenaries worth discussing. Moreover, in our opinion, this is the motive reason that made Igor Vsevolodovich start a PMC legalization company. He is very active, he “pushes” this topic into the public consciousness. For your own safety and the safety of your friends.

No matter what we say about PMCs, under the existing Criminal Code, this organization is not legal. And all those involved in this activity understand the possible consequences for themselves. Moreover, in an effort to show their own importance as a military specialist, many of the former volunteers talked about their participation in other wars.

What happened often in war has happened. Sincere desire to help someone, to protect someone, gradually turned into a need. In the work, if you like. And for any job I want to receive wages. A man, even without noticing it, turns into a mercenary. He lives by the war. And no matter where and on which side.

There are enough problems in Russia today. Including with normally paid work. In any region, including Moscow, the main claim to power is precisely this. I want a normal job, but with a normal salary. No one is in a hurry to solve this problem. So there are companies offering risk for good money. A certain analogue of the organized criminal group 90-s of the last century.

I would like to remind one well-known proverb at that time: the brothers live beautifully, but little. "Gray Geese" - not much more. For good money, of course, but we repeat, it is doubtful that Russia needs Russia so much. Historically and morally not needed.
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  1. raw174
    raw174 22 February 2018 07: 08
    +12
    Modern aircraft are quite capable of solving any problem. And while not light up. Moreover, even in the event of failure, specialists from opposing countries can solve the problem of prisoners of war or those who died without noise.

    And if it’s not a diversion operation, but a front-line operation? Suppose a certain country called Puzopopia was subjected to pressure and then attacked by a more powerful country, the Separated Lands of Colombia (RZK) and indigenous gangs, under their leadership. Russia does not have close relations with Puzopopia and there seems to be no obvious interests there, but Russia does not want to overthrow the emperor of Puzopopia and does not want to get a military base on its territory, and I really want to give it to the tins of the RZK, but I don’t want to intervene in the war, which do? The answer is simple, send PMCs there as consultants and as fully trained infantry.
    Something like this...
    1. domokl
      domokl 22 February 2018 07: 19
      +13
      Quote: raw174
      Russia does not have close relations with Puzopopia and it seems that there are no obvious interests there,

      Then what is the reason for the intervention?
      Quote: raw174
      Russia does not want to overthrow the emperor of Puzopopia and does not want to get a military base on its territory; and I really want to give it on tinsel

      So there are interests? But what about the first postulate?
      Quote: raw174
      The answer is simple, send there PMCs as consultants and as full-fledged prepared infantry.

      In both. Does Russia send infantry in the image of PMCs? You look at the composition of PMCs. This is far from cannon fodder. These are specialists with combat experience. Infantry in any country of its own on the roof can be found.
      Quote: raw174
      And if it is not a sabotage operation, but a frontline one?

      Well, the last. And this is not a direct part in the war? PMC has a specific legal address. And after the adoption of the law on PMCs, Russian companies will be directly associated with our army. And what are we going to hide here?
      1. raw174
        raw174 22 February 2018 07: 49
        +6
        Quote: domokl
        So there are interests? But what about the first postulate?

        Well, this is a rough example, many options are possible, interests can be obvious, tactical, strategic, purely political, these are the nuances ...
        Quote: domokl
        Russia sends infantry in the image of PMCs? You look at the composition of PMCs. This is far from cannon fodder.

        Is infantry a cannon fodder? I’m talking about a significant strengthening of the small-town army by specialists who can work not only in the headquarters, but also carry out operations on the ground ... At the same time, the Defense Ministry will have no losses and no one will yell inside the country about the unnecessary death of soldiers.
        Quote: domokl
        But is this not a direct participation in the war?

        Legally no.
        Quote: domokl
        Russian companies will be directly associated with our army.

        Rather, with the owner. In addition to the agreed functions, they will perform other functions (security, escort, etc.).
        Quote: domokl
        And what are we going to hide?

        The Russian Federation does not fight, private traders are fighting, whom the government will not be obliged to pull out, for which it does not bear legal responsibility ...
        1. Mechanikistanka
          Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 05: 32
          +2
          PMCs are not a selection of cool specialists, with daily special forces classes. This is a stamp. Throughout the world, PMCs carry out tasks to protect objects or persons in disadvantaged areas, and do not rush into the trenches with bayonets or knives at the ready. They fight extremely rarely. If the state decides to help, it will send “advisers”, weapons and professional special forces groups. It was always and everywhere ... Any mercenary is not obliged to keep military and state secrets, because he is not bound by oath and does not keep. Therefore, in practice, the responsibility is always borne by his employer, who quickly becomes known. The most striking example is the African war.
          1. captain
            captain 23 February 2018 10: 42
            +4
            The authors of the article apparently poorly understand the essence of combined arms combat. An example of Budenovsk showed that Alpha is not able to conduct an ordinary combined-arms battle, with the same efficiency with which it performs special tasks .. Alpha fighters were not prepared for this. The result we know which. MTRs are also not preparing to conduct a combined arms battle, especially offensive, they are also not taught this. Our people have the opinion that if the special forces send in any case, victory is guaranteed. But this is far from a fact. Special Forces (any; FSB, MVD, GRU, UFSIN) performs special tasks. Tasks defined for each type of special forces. And the mercenaries in Syria perform the functions of ordinary infantry. And they are very necessary in this case. Not all soldiers and officers are ready to die for Russia's INTERESTS. Yes, defending the homeland is one thing. And to protect her interests abroad is another. This is the task that the Cheka must fulfill.
            1. Mechanikistanka
              Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 13: 03
              +3
              That's right, motorized rifles will crush any conditional Alpha or the coolest paratroopers in the field simply because they have incomparable power of fire and are able to use it. Special Forces do not need grenade launchers, mortars, ASGs or other heavy weapons. They are not covered by infantry fighting vehicles, tanks, artillery, such interaction is simply not practiced, because special forces are not needed. But PMCs do not need this. Participation in field battles will never pay off, therefore not a single PMC in history is known that would practice this. But you can make it much simpler: throw a cry, promise en money and recruit anyone in any country. These mercenaries are interested in the interests of any state, but here they are just perfect for combined arms combat. They do not need to be trained, which means spending a lot of money. There are practically no obligations to them, except for salary, which is also a huge savings. They are not tied to any legal entity, because they were hired by "Uncle Vasya", and accordingly there is no responsibility, sorry for the tautology. But this is by no means PMCs, these are private individuals engaged by a private person for military operations.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 22 February 2018 08: 09
      +4
      The question boils down to whether Mercader or Judas was right. winked Mercenary is the most disgusting of anything invented by mankind. Killing FOR MONEY is the dirtiest business and the worst sin, and cannot be justified by any "high goals".
      1. Astoria
        Astoria 22 February 2018 09: 38
        +5
        Killing FOR MONEY is the dirtiest business
        Eck you suffered a bump, the military on the contract also receive money.

        And if in fact:
        1) The aircraft cannot be used for operations with commercial interest, the army is not a private security company.
        2) The armed forces can not always be used for political reasons / without political consequences.
        3) PMCs may consist of non-Russian citizens, unlike the Armed Forces.
      2. parma
        parma 22 February 2018 09: 38
        +4
        Quote: siberalt
        The question boils down to whether Mercader or Judas was right. winked Mercenary is the most disgusting of anything invented by mankind. Killing FOR MONEY is the dirtiest business and the worst sin, and cannot be justified by any "high goals".

        And the contract army? Any military man basically gets paid! for a contractor, this is a permanent job for which he receives a salary!
        1. MadCat
          MadCat 22 February 2018 17: 29
          +4
          Quote: parma
          And the contract army? Any military man basically gets paid! for a contractor, this is a permanent job for which he receives a salary!

          the army receives allowance, the army has a charter and a clear code of laws, and soldiers are not slaves in order to live, they need a salary. Like the officers. They chose this specialty, to defend their homeland.
          Mercenaries is a legalized (not yet legalized) organized crime group with a full range of weapons. And it’s good if the state hires them (of course, for white things, huh), but businessmen can hire business, they can squeeze out business ...
        2. SERGUS
          SERGUS 24 February 2018 14: 29
          +3
          Quote: parma
          And the contract army? Any military man basically gets paid!

          The most significant difference is that a soldier (no matter the conscript or contractor) takes the oath and he is a representative of the state! It’s like the difference between sleeping with a wife and a girl of easy virtue, and that salary is taken away and you give it to that, but the moral side (and not only) is completely different ...
      3. To be or not to be
        To be or not to be 22 February 2018 10: 42
        +1
        French Foreign Legion (fr. Légion étrangère) - a military unit, part of the ground forces of France and manned mainly from foreigners.

        In certain periods of its history, the legion totaled over forty thousand people. So, in August 1914, 5 marching regiments of the Foreign Legion totaled 42 volunteers, representatives of more than 883 nationalities. As of 52, about seven and a half thousand people from 2009 countries are serving in eleven regiments of the legion ""
    3. Oden280
      Oden280 22 February 2018 10: 06
      +1
      And then RZK pays this PMC two or more times the money and she stupidly goes over to their side, paying the previous customer a forfeit.
    4. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 22 February 2018 10: 56
      +1
      Without state laws on PMCs, their creation. existence, armament .and use is not legal. Their functioning under the guise of security companies of wealthy uncles is not an option
      The problem has been discussed since 2012, but it’s still there. "The head of the State Duma’s defense committee, Vladimir Shamanov, said on February 14 that in the light of recent events in Syria, the draft law on the legalization of private military companies (PMCs) has gained additional relevance. The document was recently introduced to the State Duma and is now sent to the Government of the Russian Federation to receive feedback. Similar bills, starting in 2012, were sent to the State Duma four times, but were rejected. ""
      https://www.znak.com/2018-02-15/avtor_proektov_za
      kona_o_chvk_rasskazal_chto_prineset_rossii_legali
      zaciya_naemnikov
      1. yehat
        yehat 22 February 2018 16: 33
        +1
        Without state laws on PMCs, their creation. Existence

        In our country, there are traditionally many people who have many skills related to war.
        turning a blind eye to the fact that not everyone will refuse to apply this knowledge is stupid.
        Therefore, the state process is obliged to lead and write laws that are better than
        labor code, regulate the matter.
    5. TOR1864
      TOR1864 22 February 2018 14: 22
      +3
      Quote: raw174
      And if it’s not a diversion operation, but a front-line operation? Suppose a certain country called Puzopopia was subjected to pressure,

      Let's use real examples. Syria, Ukraine .. the countries of Africa or Latin Amreka .. where can and why use PMCs? If we are strong, we use our VO, not the “day to day”
    6. alatanas
      alatanas 23 February 2018 11: 23
      +1
      Ever since the Punic Wars, it is known what happens when your army is mostly hired.
    7. master2
      master2 23 February 2018 18: 38
      0
      Correctly! On the other hand, We are not there, but on the other, all issues are resolved, as in Ukraine.
    8. Suhow
      Suhow 24 February 2018 22: 51
      0
      I agree, but PMCs in Puzopopia should be well equipped .... including the PTR, PZK, and more.
  2. BecmepH
    BecmepH 22 February 2018 07: 08
    +5
    "The contract is with the company" EuroPolis ". She is also unofficially" PMC Wagner. "

    - Just don’t tell anyone. Okay?
    1. Romey
      Romey 22 February 2018 11: 31
      +7
      Your deeds are wonderful, Lord! A year ago, it was possible to run into a ban for one mention of the “Wagner” and provoked a fierce butcherd among the cheer-commentators with a liberal and slander label. And also called this PMC conjecture invented by RBC.
      1. domokl
        domokl 24 February 2018 07: 07
        0
        Huh ... But I remember the reports of our private traders who guarded the ships from Samali pirates. On central TV by the way
  3. kipod
    kipod 22 February 2018 07: 22
    +14
    According to "orders from the state." Do you turn on the mill? You need to carry out some kind of operation. You have strong specialists (army, GRU, it does not matter) who are a head taller than private traders. But, for some (many people in this place write “political”) reasons, you hire weak specialists for huge money. At the same time risking the operation and fill up, and light the nationality of private traders. Where is the logic?

    Yes, the logic is simple.
    Reporting for losses is not necessary. These people formally do not belong to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
    Well, five or six will die, where one of the MTRs could die - in which case the actual losses are greater?
    Women still give birth, money?
    And who pays PMCs at all? It was written - private investors belay Well, who are they to invest billions in PMCs in Syria? belay
    They invest to make a profit - but what profit?
    It is clear that the budget of the Russian Federation pays, they train at the bazaar of Moscow Region.
    And in case of death - I am neither me nor the horse.
    Well, in general, sort of Gaster, only with a gun.
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 22 February 2018 10: 25
      +4
      Quote: kipod
      Reporting for losses is not necessary. These people formally do not belong to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation
      Quote: kipod
      It is clear that the budget of the Russian Federation pays, they train at the bazaar of Moscow Region.
      And in case of death - I am neither me nor the horse.
      Well, in general, sort of Gaster, only with a gun.

      To the same extent, this applies to any other countries, and not just to Russia.

      "The use of" private traders "is characteristic of Western countries, where the rejection of large losses is higher. Large casualties among the personnel of the armed forces can influence the decision to terminate the operation and the withdrawal of troops, as was the case with special forces participating in the UN peacekeeping operation In Somalia, in 1993, during a city battle in Mogadishu, Americans lost 18 people, about 80 were wounded, and one was captured. This accelerated the withdrawal of the US contingent from the country. Such situations can be avoided if we are not talking about a regular army, but about private military companies.

      Reducing losses through the use of PMC fighters is a common practice that has been used, for example, in Iraq and Afghanistan. "Since 2008, the number of employees of private companies in these countries has exceeded the number of US troops, and at least since 2010," private owners "account for the bulk of the dead and wounded."

      https://www.rbc.ru/magazine/2016/09/57bac4309a794
      76d978e850d
      Quote: kipod
      And who pays PMCs at all? It was written - private investors, who are they to invest billions in PMCs in Syria?
      They invest to make a profit - but what profit?

      Xs, maybe the circuit is something like this:
      Need a profit? We need profitable contracts, you need your business to have no problems. And one way to avoid problems and get contracts is to finance PMCs.
  4. Fox
    Fox 22 February 2018 08: 44
    +2
    mercenaries are bad, contract soldiers are good ... I remembered an interview with one lad with an independent, 20 years old, who had fled to Russia from the war and the ATO with his parents and dreamed of getting a job in the police or going to serve on a contract with the RF Armed Forces ...
    what is the difference? only about "patriotism" is not necessary to sing. in Syria, too, "for Sechin, for Putin, for Rosneft!"
  5. vlad007
    vlad007 22 February 2018 09: 16
    +4
    The article is very slurred. I have a simple question - our PRIVATE oil and gas companies (taxpayers to the budget of the Russian Federation) have property abroad. Who can (has the right with weapons in their hands) protect this property?
    1. dauria
      dauria 22 February 2018 21: 14
      +3
      Who can (have the right with weapons in their hands) protect this property ?.


      Who prevents them from registering a security company in the host country and recruiting at least blacks, even Russian? And to train at least at the level of officers of the General Staff? Their money, their problems with local laws. Will be criminals according to local laws - their choice. Local laws allow - even if they ride tanks. What the "state of Russia" needs abroad will do without these "geese". Nafig are not needed here. There is still not enough "protection" at the government level.
      1. Mechanikistanka
        Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 05: 42
        +3
        Still simpler, no need to register anything. The host country requires permission to guard people with weapons. If this is obtained, then at least Kremlin cadets can guard and this is a common practice.
  6. rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 22 February 2018 09: 55
    +1
    As for me, Boris Kagarlitsky spoke best of all on the topic of mercenarism.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMvWcPMbGDM&l
  7. SPACE
    SPACE 22 February 2018 10: 07
    +5
    Those politically active and courageous people who, at the call of their hearts, went to defend the people of Donbass, did not think about money. Moreover, they drove for their own money. They bought equipment and, to be honest, weapons for their own money. And even, we once wrote about this, fought with ukrofashistami independently

    Have you thought about money? but bought equipment and weapons! I wonder what? Do we have a lot of people who have money for trunks and can buy it illegally? Or the people are not poor and not simple or unemployment is garbage? In addition to the trunk, you need to leave money at home so that the family and children do not need anything, otherwise such a volunteer is either rootless, or simply a "bad person" who left the family to the mercy of fate. Otherwise, how to understand the politically active and the call of the heart?

    Whatever motives motivate the person, high principles or base instincts, there are always and will be categories of people for whom life is war and those who are not averse to throwing the life of a Soldier of Fortune on the line.
    Threat Weapons should be strictly prohibited, PMCs are legalized and permitted.
  8. would
    would 22 February 2018 11: 08
    +17
    And once again, Staver and Skomorokhov wrote articles that are not even full of errors, but are entirely a first-class level error on this topic.

    The main thesis of the PMC defenders was the idea-fix on the execution by mercenaries of the "orders" of the Russian government. Allegedly, the Defense Ministry cannot “shine” its own SSO when performing certain tasks, and PMCs, precisely because of their anonymity, are quite suitable for this. And this nonsense is issued for the ultimate truth.

    Modern aircraft are quite capable of solving any problem. And while not light up.


    The main objective of PMCs in all countries is primarily the protection of individuals and private facilities. As a result, they are hired by individuals and private companies. Somewhere, it is necessary to protect the businessman that he decided to work in a country that is in war or just in Africa (they can cut off his head without war), somewhere to protect oil rigs, and somewhere to lead a private vessel in a pirate-hazardous area. The latter is narrowly specialized in a whole layer of companies from all over the world.

    That is, the authors suggest that we first allow private individuals to hire as many armed forces as possible. Can you imagine what legal precedent and chaos it will be? So who should the MTR be subject to, who is their command, military or private businessman who hired them? And most importantly, this creates a precedent according to which the state loses its monopoly on the use of armed forces and now any oligarch will be able to absolutely legally carry out his military operations without any one-man management. The authors did not think about this?

    Secondly, it’s purely legally impossible to take and introduce armed forces into the country. This is a bunch of approvals, a bunch of political implications. In your opinion, the Americans would be glad that for the evacuation of our specialists from Iraq, the MTR will arrive there, which are so equal to the authors with PMCs? They would take it, let it go with open arms, would greet it in the gums and blood, yeah. As a result of our experts, PMCs were pulled out of there.

    Well, it’s worth separately to remember that the MTR has its own kitchen, the PMC has its own. The tasks that MTRs perform are very different, for example, from the protection of a tanker in the Gulf of Aden and as a result they do not replace each other.

    Army or special services. Former! In other words, those who are no longer able to perform tasks in the service due to age, injury or lack of professionalism.


    It is fundamentally wrong, in PMCs, as a rule, former military men are usually, but very many of them are still very, very young, without injuries. What attracts you is that on the contract you can earn 20-30 thousand from the force (albeit with all the benefits) and protecting the tanker in the Gulf of Aden is much more and often in "hard currency".

    So once again, Staver and Skomorokhov interfere with a bunch of mercenaries, PMCs and MTRs generally do not understand who they are and what they are doing and for the sake of that they simply made children's mistakes. Once again after my first devastating post in which I clearly pointed to them. But the reaction was different from "We need to check, maybe we really made a mistake" lol

    Moreover, in our opinion, this is the motivating reason that made Igor Vsevolodovich the company on the legalization of PMCs.


    1. A company is an organization. But the campaign is a set of action. That is why military and political campaigns are precisely.
    2. The topic of legalization in the country of PMCs was raised long before the sensational battle and it was not Strelkov who started it at all. They push it ... I'm afraid to make a mistake, but in my opinion, it’s as if not from the beginning of the 2000s. Precisely before the Donbass.

    I would like to remind one well-known proverb at that time: the brothers live beautifully, but little. "Gray Geese" - not much more. For good money, of course, but we repeat, it is doubtful that Russia needs Russia so much. Historically and morally not needed.


    As a result, PMCs will continue to register abroad, pay taxes there, and they will be hired by our and not only companies because they, without any history and morality, are needed in some matters like air.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 22 February 2018 11: 55
      +8
      Quote: rait
      The main objective of PMCs in all countries is primarily the protection of individuals and private facilities. As a result, they are hired by individuals and private companies. Somewhere, it is necessary to protect the businessman that he decided to work in a country that is in war or just in Africa (they can cut off his head without war), somewhere to protect oil rigs, and somewhere to lead a private vessel in a pirate-hazardous area. The latter is narrowly specialized in a whole layer of companies from all over the world.

      I completely agree with you ... A purely economic effect is also important, PMCs as a consulting and logistics company will be registered in Russia with the issuance of an appropriate license for a strictly defined type of activity. Accordingly, taxes will go to the Russian budget and jobs will be created for Russian citizens ... why is this bad? Everything else lies within the framework of compliance with legislation and state control. If the company suddenly decides to "unlicensed activities", then this is already an illegal armed formation, with which they act in a known manner.
      Quote: rait
      As a result, PMCs will continue to register abroad, pay taxes there, and they will be hired by our and not only companies because they, without any history and morality, are needed in some matters like air.

      What is actually about
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 22 February 2018 13: 24
      +3
      And once again, Staver and Skomorokhov wrote articles that are not even full of errors, but are entirely a first-class level error on this topic.

      I agree with you on 100%.
      I would also like to recall the situation when in November 1994 the storming of Grozny was carried out by opposition forces with the support of tank crews from the professional military. After unsuccessful actions, the crews were captured and everyone disowned them. Who were they? Mercenaries or volunteers? For money or for an idea? Army or PMC? Surely the authors will not answer these and other questions.
      As they say behind the trees, they do not see the forest.
  9. Argentum
    Argentum 22 February 2018 11: 09
    +1
    Quote: vlad007
    The article is very slurred. I have a simple question - our PRIVATE oil and gas companies (taxpayers to the budget of the Russian Federation) have property abroad. Who can (has the right with weapons in their hands) protect this property?

    Who makes the decision, the concept of law and resources is blurry. Therefore, our state-owned companies give profit to watchmakers .. there is an office where "dreams come true", she needs services, here there are private companies that will do this market and effectively. But since the market itself is also perverted in our country (what is the saying “we need a strong ruble for foreign investment” @ Kudrin, therefore, people don’t need to give money - because this will weaken the ruble), the services are provided by familiar people. A familiar people can not be offended. Therefore, management has sky-high salaries, and their friends and relatives are also not far behind .. they provide services. Actually, this is called a “conflict of interests” and corruption (rot of the country), in smart countries such activities are equated to treason, drug trafficking, people trafficking and other heavy articles from the Criminal Code ..
    At some point, military defense of state enterprises was needed in countries where weapons of mass destruction are fired on the streets. And since there are private interests there, there is no need to explain to the public why the soldiers are dying - PMCs were urgently needed.
    But not private traders will pay for PMCs, we have oligarchs — these are special people, “bablonauts” (@ Pelevin. Friedma’s space) sent home to where there is a lot of money, yachts, prostitutes, football clubs and cocaine .. Some are even specially sent to show us what kind of debauchery reigns on the money stolen from the people, then to play on the people's nerves ..
    With PMCs it will be the same as with our Chukchi oligarchs — they will be supplied with money under closed budget items, because in our country there are no private corporations ready to fight for their interests.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Colonel
        Colonel 22 February 2018 12: 31
        +1
        Quote: nerd
        Shocking facts about Russia

        The links are left. Nerd, move on to learn botany.
  10. Argentum
    Argentum 22 February 2018 11: 21
    +1
    With PMCs it will be the same as with our Chukchi oligarchs — they will be supplied with money under closed budget items, because in our country there are no private corporations ready to fight for their interests.
  11. Alekkksey
    Alekkksey 22 February 2018 12: 10
    +1
    Of course, everything is fine and PMCs have the task of protecting private property, but if we analyze the articles in the public domain, it turns out that in the case of Syria, PMC performs assault tasks, which is also confirmed by the presence of medals for Palmyra (again, from open sources) to PMC. Those. in this case, PMCs are used in the public interest, and not in private.
    I think that this noise is connected with the death of PMCs from the regular army. 1. Nobody believes that tasks were only private. 2. Even if the tasks were private, the deaths of so many citizens should be covered at the highest level, and not deny that there is nothing and we do not know anything. It is this denial that strikes even greater confidence in paragraph 1.
    Further, about mercenarism: the thesis is that if he receives money for a war, then he is a mercenary, and does not fight for his homeland. Let me remind you that money for the service is received by all active servicemen on a contract basis and even by conscription, does this mean that they are all mercenaries for money, and not for their homeland?
    1. Mechanikistanka
      Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 13: 34
      +2
      And what does it mean to “analyze articles”? If you study the articles of the "yellow press", then we have long been conquered by the Martians. If you study CNN, then Putin enslaved the whole world. Try to analyze the confirmed facts, perhaps your opinion will change.

      Where did you get that there was a "mass death"? From a journalist who interviewed a certain "source close to the Pentagon"? And this "source" from whom he learned, from the "source close to Syria" ??? Lists of Russian citizens who died abroad are on the websites of the Foreign Ministry and consulates. If tomorrow the BBC announces that a million Russians have died in Syria, will you also demand top-level coverage ?!

      A mercenary receives money for the war and yes, he does not fight for his homeland. He does not take the military oath to his country and acts in the interests of the employer. The military does not receive money for the service, but for the service to the STATE, which pays them so that in case of war they are ready to give their lives for the STATE and the PEOPLE, regardless of the amount of payment, government or constitutional order, obeying all the laws of that state relating to army, articles of charters and command orders ...
  12. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 22 February 2018 12: 12
    0
    PMC employees and volunteers equalize

    Our "fairest in the world" court does not think so and will judge a volunteer in the full severity of the law.
    On the other hand - I do not understand what the difference is - the interests of the oligarchs and the interests of the state? If it is the same in modern Russia.
    Oh yes! I forgot that Peskov said there are no oligarchs in Russia. That’s for sure - "their stamps." That's where the dog rummaged!
  13. groks
    groks 22 February 2018 13: 01
    +4
    Mercenaries cannot solve combined arms problems. Everyone seems to agree with that.
    Compared with the MTR of a normal army, they have no opportunities. Normal.
    Why then are they needed? They say that to perform ... delicate tasks. But again, opportunities will lag very far behind SVR for example.
    So why are they needed? Like a private army of oligarchs. As punishers, terrorists, since it will be difficult to get the SVR to organize / suppress riots in their own country.
    The fact that they started pushing it right now, suggests that our elite was chanting.
    1. domokl
      domokl 22 February 2018 17: 28
      +1
      Beautiful .. Feels like .... drinks
      1. groks
        groks 22 February 2018 17: 41
        +2
        Yes, everything is sewn with white thread. When Serdyukov reformed the army into one large explosive, there was still doubt. Then RG is a classic of the genre in general. Well, now also this.
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 25 February 2018 02: 44
      0
      Hmm !!! It was the PMCs who were able to conduct combined arms operations that became famous thanks to which they found their niche in business. Analyze everything that is connected. Especially read out about Bob Dennar.
      1. groks
        groks 25 February 2018 12: 26
        0
        If a mercenary goes into the army of any country, then does this whole army suddenly become an army of mercenaries?
  14. soldner
    soldner 22 February 2018 13: 55
    +2
    Both the article in two parts and the discussion are absolutely moronic in Russian. No one is interested in your opinion on the legalization of mercenaries, since it has long been legalized throughout the world. Mercenaries are the oldest profession. As a phenomenon, mercenaryism exists for centuries !!!. The notorious International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries is an ideologically motivated legal nonsense, which is why it has been ratified by Africans and Russia and Ukraine. And military crimes that are attributed to mercenaries are committed by military personnel during operations everywhere. Even UN troops are not angels.
    1. Mechanikistanka
      Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 13: 12
      +1
      In Russia it is not legalized and the topic is interesting for this reason. Even if mercenaryism exists billions of years from Pluto to Mercury. And who is interested in your opinion ?!
    2. 82т11
      82т11 23 February 2018 18: 36
      0
      Prostitution is also the oldest profession, let's legalize prostitution)))
  15. trak
    trak 22 February 2018 14: 38
    +3
    Read it. Of course with the authors do not agree. Even to argue about. Private security treaties are needed, and only "forever yesterday" can be against them. There is an expression, who agrees with the time in which he lives, this time leads him, and who does not agree, he drags ... All the authors' examples about the shortcomings and blunders of our PMCs are not serious. The guys are just starting, and in fact illegally, they would help, support, direct. Instead, they are sent to be torn apart by all kinds of chock hoppers with the thinking of dinosaurs.
    1. Alexey Sobolev
      Alexey Sobolev 22 February 2018 16: 07
      +1
      No need to support them. Our whole life has been performing a variety of tasks, including illegal ones, all their life .. Moreover, it has always been a pro. Are there few examples in history?
      1. groks
        groks 22 February 2018 17: 34
        +2
        There is a difference - some give the oath to the country, and the second to the money. Now, if the situation in the country worsens (and why should it improve) and a column of disgruntled citizens led by not Navalny, but even Kvachkov, will go to the Kremlin. There are not many people who want to stop this procession hard in both the Moscow Region and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Especially if the situation worsens. Here the mercenaries will come in handy. And then in 93 how bad happened.
  16. Alexey Sobolev
    Alexey Sobolev 22 February 2018 16: 05
    0
    Skomorokhov as he writes, so not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! BRAVO!!!
  17. flicker
    flicker 22 February 2018 17: 25
    +3
    Mercenaries for the good of Russia. Part of 2
    Part 1, commented on how "about nothing". After I read part 2, and compared, I realized that I got excited about the first, because the second, in this part, does not leave the first any chance - anything
    1. trak
      trak 22 February 2018 18: 14
      +2
      Totally agree with you! How many of these publications have already been on the most diverse reasons: and it is not necessary, and this is dangerous, oh, how it is all immoral and not "our way". In general, different "sad" write, and the caravan goes, because life forces. Well, we will regret those who have lagged behind life, cannot fit in and are trying to stop its progress with a nasty squeaky call.
      1. groks
        groks 22 February 2018 20: 47
        +1
        Yes indeed. How many times have mercenaries saved Russia! Mercenaries of Suvorov, mercenaries of Kutuzov, mercenaries of Stalin.
        Guys - how do you feel about carrying obvious nonsense?
        1. trak
          trak 22 February 2018 22: 12
          +2
          As the old Russian proverb says, to the pigs - all the pigs, and to the fuckiners all carry the nonsense. Do not confuse spicy with white, not those attacked. PMCs are mercenaries for you, and for us military professionals. Some military professionals will not be able to save their homeland, it can be done only by the whole world, by all the people, but if the homeland has a lot of military professionals in constant combat readiness, then the people will bring, saving the homeland, much less casualties. PMCs allow you to have such professionals for less money than it is worth keeping them in the army, because PMCs are self-sustaining. But empires, as world history teaches, are always created and saved only and precisely by military professionals. Moreover, if the motherland has a good empire, then it is much less necessary to save it (the motherland) than if it were in a different scenario. And let those who are willing to constantly risk their lives, get well and will be socially protected, not figs to count money in their pockets. Do you want the same, go to the private security complex! Well, what do you guys do not understand these simple truths?
          1. groks
            groks 23 February 2018 08: 53
            0
            Moreover, if the motherland has a good empire
            What would it mean?
            1. trak
              trak 23 February 2018 15: 35
              0
              Quote: groks
              Moreover, if the motherland has a good empire
              What would it mean?

              Do not you understand !? Wow! My condolences. However, there is no other way to expect from people who are lost in time.
              1. groks
                groks 23 February 2018 16: 07
                +1
                In this case, not one Russian will understand the stupid construction of the phrase. Baltic chtol?
                1. 82т11
                  82т11 23 February 2018 18: 43
                  0
                  Maybe he used Google translator?)
          2. 82т11
            82т11 23 February 2018 18: 40
            +2
            You already decide PMCs will spend less money on their content or more? And if more, then maybe it’s worth the army to engage normally and not produce chimeras?
          3. 82т11
            82т11 23 February 2018 18: 41
            0
            You already decide PMCs will spend less money on their content or more? And if more, then maybe it’s worth the army to engage normally and not produce chimeras?
  18. midivan
    midivan 23 February 2018 02: 23
    +1
    Former employees. Army or special services. Former! In other words, those who can no longer perform service tasks due to age, injury or lack of professionalism. People who are used to making a living this way. Or who like just such a life.
    Then everything is in the same vein. I understand the smirks of those who understand. Go in a frontal attack with the help of specialists who have sufficient combat experience?
    Guys, Roman and Alexander, you contradict yourself wink Or maybe it is worth discarding personal contempt for the "mercenaries" not rushing headlong (the conclusion about past articles and this one), but try to understand everything objectively and bring it to the reader? An interesting situation — let’s take this high-profile case of “the defeat of our PMCs”, oddly enough, the actions took place at an oil refinery, once built by the Americans and subsequently nationalized by Syria, which was captured by rebels supported by amers, - what was the point of sending private traders there? Option one - someone from the very wealthy rich sponsored this operation, for what purpose, to squeeze this factory for yourself? Let's say they squeezed out and what, it was peacetime they were turned from there (we look the Americans built and further development), and more money was invested than in the army (according to the authors). What is the benefit of the private owner to invest money there now, when it is not known whose refinery it will be? and the territory behind whom is also not known? Option two - Syria itself has hired private traders to protect its own interests. What is the point of hiring a private trader by paying more than you can "pay" the aircraft with greater efficiency? And most importantly, PMCs are illegal but exist, there is an organization of specialists armed to the teeth with enormous combat experience with the money of not “controlled” businessmen who can seize power by being bought from outside (they don’t have principles, they are mercenaries). Next on Wikipedia-
    Group Wagner - an unofficial armed group, often called in the press by the Russian private military company ("PMC Wagner"). For the first time in October 2015, the St. Petersburg publication Fontanka.ru wrote about the private military company Wagner. According to her, in 2013, Russian managers of PMC Moran Security Group Vadim Gusev and Yevgeny Sidorov formed the Slavic Corps detachment of 267 “contractors” to “protect fields and oil pipelines” in Syria, which was prosecuted in Russia for mercenarism [4] [5] ]. The PMC Wagner itself does not appear in the law enforcement agencies or in the register of legal entities, and its fighters are absent in the formulary lists of personnel [6]. According to RBC, the secret control of the Wagner group is carried out by the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation [5]. Money was paid to the soldiers of the “Wagner group” in cash, they were not officially registered anywhere, and purchases of weapons and equipment were classified [5]. According to the publication, the state and “high-ranking businessmen” financed the PMCs as the latter included St. Petersburg restaurateur and friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was one of the largest recipients of state contracts. Regarding the group’s commander in the media, there is an opinion that Wagner is reserve lieutenant colonel Dmitry Utkin, who until 2013 was the commander of the 700th special forces detachment of the 2nd separate special forces brigade of the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation [7] (Pechory, Pskov Region). After being transferred to the reserve, he worked at the Moran Security Group, participated in the Syrian expedition “Slavic Corps” in 2013 [5].

    In 2016, Dmitry Utkin attended the celebration of Heroes of the Fatherland Day in the Kremlin as being awarded the Order of Courage and was photographed with President Vladimir Putin and other military [5].
    I don’t point to the wiki as the last resort, but! If there is a lie, then you have to agree that it would not last long, we quickly know how to delete what the average person does not need to know, and if this is true, it smells like an article to Prigogine and Putin, well, at least a very, very strong concern over the hill, and there it is matter silence and dead with ..... hi Oh, I completely forgot why Putin needs such friendship when he has entire forces of all the armed forces?
    1. groks
      groks 23 February 2018 09: 23
      0
      1. The truth about where and why the attacked group was moving, we will never know.
      2. The group was attacked by the USA troops. Thus showing that this is their territory and their property. Our officials mumbled for a long time, then all the same they recognized a certain number of wounded citizens of the Russian Federation. They didn’t even seem to express concerns.
      3. Who said that these are Assad's mercenaries?
      4. In our country, such figures are sometimes awarded, that at least carry the saints.
      5. Putin was once photographed with such characters that many Leningraders are ready to shoot him for those things.
      1. midivan
        midivan 23 February 2018 13: 48
        +1
        Quote: groks
        3. Who said that these are Assad's mercenaries?

        Yes, no one said an assumption.
        Quote: groks
        4. In our country, such figures are sometimes awarded, that at least carry the saints.
        5. Putin was once photographed with such characters that many Leningraders are ready to shoot him for those things.

        Well, what is the final conclusion? Who do they work for? Purely on a private trader? I do not believe! hi
        1. groks
          groks 23 February 2018 15: 04
          0
          The conclusion is simple - they gain experience in the CTO, in which case competently drive all those dissatisfied in the Russian Federation.
          1. midivan
            midivan 23 February 2018 16: 34
            +1
            Quote: groks
            The conclusion is simple - they gain experience in the CTO, in which case competently drive all those dissatisfied in the Russian Federation.

            There is enough experience in the CTO, look at the videos featuring Falcatus, I think that there will be no one like that in the first Caucasus, they won’t allow this, but they’re not happy to drive, for this there is the Rosguard and they will completely cope with it and the combat experience there is not very needed.
            1. groks
              groks 23 February 2018 17: 26
              0
              Why not? If you stop pouring money into Chechnya, then everything will start all over again.
              But I'm not talking about that. Based on the actions of our elite, they are not afraid of the Maidan, but approximately as in Syria or in New Russia. Those. quite large groups of people, well armed and with the military and the Ministry of Internal Affairs who joined them.
              1. midivan
                midivan 23 February 2018 18: 02
                +1
                Quote: groks
                Why not? If you stop pouring money into Chechnya, then everything will start all over again.

                I think there’s not so much being poured there already, God forbid each region was rebuilt, about three or four years ago it was a passage there, I didn’t know at all, I even almost got lost where I seemed to know the area very well (it’s true at night), you can live normally, I’ve tasted it a peaceful and well-fed life is unlikely to want to destroy everything again. Well then, in principle, anything can be there.
                Quote: groks
                But I'm not talking about that. Based on the actions of our elite, they are not afraid of the Maidan, but approximately as in Syria or in New Russia. Those. quite large groups of people, well armed and with the military and the Ministry of Internal Affairs who joined them.

                To do this, you need a Leader, but you can’t even see him on the horizon, and the army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs are not to join, they have more or less normal salaries and do not live badly, at least from friends they haven’t heard their complaints, they go and smile request
                1. groks
                  groks 23 February 2018 19: 04
                  0
                  They already had a peaceful life. The region is absolutely subsidized, so the injections cannot stop. As soon as they get worse, so they will go dollars and instructors.
                  A leader is not really needed if there is nothing to eat. And events in the South-East of Ukraine showed that leaders are very fast.
                  The army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs were fed, of course.
                  But. Are prices rising little by little? Are growing. Are there any factors that can stop the process? No. Well, how long will this splendor last? The top believes that it is not long and actively preparing.
                  1. midivan
                    midivan 23 February 2018 20: 08
                    0
                    Quote: groks
                    A leader is not really needed if there is nothing to eat.

                    It is necessary, but without a competent leader, a crowd will turn out that does not know what it wants and will not last long. In Ukraine, the leader did not happen and therefore led to the fact that there is, a gang of freaks spread another gang and robbed, they did not achieve positive goals, if only the Americans won the time.
                    Quote: groks
                    Well, how long will this splendor last? The top believes that it is not long and actively preparing.

                    I didn’t notice that the top is getting ready, but it can go on for a long time. yes Didn’t it seem to you that we are being kept in this state of balance on the brink for many years wink and it’s great at them, to devour toss and spectacles too yes look at your leisure, throw away tinsel designed for the average man, there you can catch something smile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW90PRrol-I
                    1. groks
                      groks 23 February 2018 21: 15
                      0
                      In Ukraine, the leader did not happen

                      in the southeast


                      Yes, it seems that there is nothing more to balance. The Soviet balancer is over.
  19. Doliva63
    Doliva63 23 February 2018 07: 01
    +5
    To finally break with the Soviet past, we just have to legalize PMCs, marijuana and prostitution - and we’ll live “like theirs”, damn it! laughing
    Happy Soviet Army Day! drinks
  20. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 23 February 2018 07: 46
    0
    The authors are well done! I have the same opinion about mercenaries. The idea here does not smell of the word at all.
  21. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 23 February 2018 09: 19
    +1
    I completely agree with the author. I just want to add that a person who for various reasons considers the war to be his job is worthy of respect, but what does the PMC legalize at the legislative level? Well, they legalized it, but then the guys guard private companies abroad, carry out some other by-laws, but do not interfere in armed conflicts, and even more so in attempts to overthrow the government.
    1. Sadam
      Sadam 25 February 2018 05: 47
      0
      the difference is that in geese he will put a green ten in his pocket a month and in the army of current reinforced rations))
  22. Mechanikistanka
    Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 09: 20
    +1
    Quote: midivan
    I don’t point to the wiki as the last resort, but! If there is a lie, then agree it would not last long there

    Do not indicate there lies easily kept for years. Please note that the Wiki article is composed entirely of corporate sources, not a single fact.
  23. kaschey
    kaschey 23 February 2018 11: 50
    +1
    “it is doubtful that Russia really needs mercenaries. Historically and morally not needed”
    They are not needed at all.
    This Western anachronism needs to be thrown out of my head.
    No, of course, if someone needs to dispose of people who decided to earn extra money on this, then PLEАSE ....
    1. Mechanikistanka
      Mechanikistanka 23 February 2018 13: 05
      0
      Quote: kaschey
      They are not needed at all.
      This Western Anachronism Must Be Thrown Out of the Head

      However, they are widely used, including in the post-Soviet space, especially in the 90s.
      1. trak
        trak 23 February 2018 15: 44
        +1
        Well ... "Everlasting yesterday" here took their souls away on the subject of PMCs. Pity them. They did not learn anything, they did not forget anything ... So they once spoke about the French kings of the Bourbons, when they returned to the throne after the revolution. Well, where are those Bourbons now? Time washed away mercilessly for not wanting to meet him. Private security contractors are needed, it means to be, no matter how much the modern "bourbons" rest against.
  24. 82т11
    82т11 23 February 2018 19: 04
    +1
    Authors well done write correctly.
    Here, many say that MTR can not be used as PMC type it will lead to TMV.
    1. I wonder how the enemy finds out that this is the dead fighter of the MTR? Will he really have a certificate with him? And if it is, it will probably be American.
    2. Not one normal mercenary will not risk his life, as MTR soldiers. Remember this saying - Dead do not need money.
    3. I do not want the government of my country to deal with such dirty and bloody affairs that for this I have to hire PMCs. The same applies to large Russian business abroad; money does not give them the right to lawlessness.
    4. The Russian army was created to protect citizens both in the country and abroad, so let it not do it. And it’s better for private traders to pay taxes to the budget, and not as they are now taking them abroad.
    1. trak
      trak 24 February 2018 12: 30
      0
      Well, what can you say ... According to your statement, you see a good man of Soviet dressing. My father is the same. We argue, but good-naturedly. He seems to me a confusion who wants good, but is no longer able to figure out how to do it in modern times. It seems that the article, which is analyzed here, is designed specifically for such people. Not serious. Therefore, I would be interested to see the authors in detail without looking at this material https://topwar.ru/81961-chvk-za-ili-protiv.html, if they really want to close the topic of PMCs. And what they wrote before this seems to me to be a primitive propaganda campaign, in which isolated facts are strained to fit the pre-prepared opinion.
      1. 82т11
        82т11 24 February 2018 23: 50
        0
        Born under Gorbachev, matured under Yeltsin, so not so old)))
        Just as life experience shows, being a decent person is beneficial)
        As for your article, https://topwar.ru/81961-chvk-za-ili-protiv.html
        to be honest, there is little logic even inside it, and the facts are far-fetched.
        1. trak
          trak 25 February 2018 13: 01
          0
          And do not bother to prove your statement? Specifically, by the way?
  25. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 24 February 2018 18: 34
    0
    Mercenaries for the good of Russia.

    This was not and never will be.
    1. Russia solved its territorial problems, in "its territories", with its own armed forces. There is no place for PMCs.
    Russia has no other problems.
    2. "Wild geese" work only for money, without an idea. SALES, anyway whom to serve.
    3. "We do not need such plumbers."
    1. trak
      trak 24 February 2018 22: 08
      0
      That's just for the whole of Russia and for all in Russia do not need to declare. You have your own point of view, expound it, backing it up with arguments and facts, but it is not necessary to impose it, as if this is the highest truth, somehow it is not in Russian, for it is immodest. No need to talk to Russia as with a fool unreasonable and climb into her saviors, she is not a fool, she will understand, and with you, and without you.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 25 February 2018 00: 33
        0
        Quote: trak
        That's just for the whole of Russia and for all in Russia do not need to declare. You have your own point of view, expound it, backing it up with arguments and facts, but it is not necessary to impose it, as if this is the highest truth, somehow it is not in Russian, for it is immodest. No need to talk to Russia as with a fool unreasonable and climb into her saviors, she is not a fool, she will understand, and with you, and without you.

        I am Russian and can declare for all of Russia.
        It is only liberalists who teach others how to correctly express their thoughts in Russian.
        Russian tolerance is inherent, but the liberals have so perverted the practice of its application that they have made it almost an abuse.
        1. trak
          trak 25 February 2018 13: 08
          0
          I am also Russian, but I did not authorize you to speak for myself and for Russia. Or do you think Russians are the only ones who agree with you?
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 25 February 2018 16: 19
            0
            Quote: trak
            I am also Russian, but I did not authorize you to speak for myself and for Russia. Or do you think Russians are the only ones who agree with you?

            That's right. There are Russians who opened the gates of Pskov to the Germans, there are also who served in the SS. Looks like you are one of these.
            PMCs work for money. Whoever gave more, they dance the girl ... Contract.
            As a result, after ... years, a toothless, legless "epy" will be woven together and begin to demand justice, "I shed blood for my homeland."
            The question is how will we consider the “exploits”? 5 fights held benefited the homeland, from 4 damage, a hero? Or we will count from 10 to 1. And if he shit at one time that he doesn’t pray from all his life? (and not guilty, he has a master and a contract. As after WWII, Prikaz is a soldier and is free).
            1. trak
              trak 25 February 2018 19: 43
              0
              Well, what do you answer this ... No offense. And that's why. Once antifascist Julius Fucik said: “Do not be afraid of enemies, they can only kill, do not be afraid of friends, they can only betray, be afraid of the indifferent, they are killed and betrayed with their consent. And I’m complementing myself agree to the whole abomination of the world. Fear the fools, because thanks to their hectic "activity" there are enemies, traitors and indifferent. And fools are not offended to be offended.
              1. Mavrikiy
                Mavrikiy 25 February 2018 20: 24
                0
                It is right to be offended.
                Russian man in concepts:
                1. mercenary, mercenary;
                2. Warrior, soldier, defender of the Fatherland.
                never put an equal sign. It is in the blood. In the Middle Ages, mercenaries wandered into Russia, but the war was over, the need was gone, the calculation and the tablecloth were expensive.
                And the status of a specialist, they say, "profession" is such, to kill on the orders of the owner - this is organized crime groups.
                Wise guy, exactly
                thanks to YOUR stormy "activity" there are enemies, traitors,

                Now I believe.
  26. Baloo
    Baloo 24 February 2018 22: 19
    +1
    Quote: raw174
    And if it’s not a diversion operation, but a front-line operation? Suppose a certain country called Puzopopia was subjected to pressure and then attacked by a more powerful country, the Separated Lands of Colombia (RZK) and indigenous gangs, under their leadership.

    indeed, again limpopo torn by a power struggle between aibolit and barmaley belay
    Today, on the first channel, the series ended, as our prisoners of war raised an uprising in the Pakistani camp. It is clear that beautifully shot fiction about the general’s son and much more. I remember how at first an uprising was heard from a radio product in the evening, then, according to local and Afghans from the same camp, who were able to cross the border to ours, the guys locked themselves in an armory in the end and blew themselves up, understanding. that there will be no help. According to other sources, a bit later it was said that the Pakistanis drove up the artillery and shot the camp.
    So, if there were PMCs, hypothetically they could advance and free ours, not "... creating an excuse for a third world ..."? And the film is beautiful, it is the antithesis of the heroes of libel in an army like "Soldiers".
    In any case, it is time to perpetuate the memory of everyone who died in that tragedy. hi
    1. 82т11
      82т11 24 February 2018 22: 44
      +1
      1. And then the Americans take the owner of this PMC by the throat and he tells CNN that he acted on Putin’s orders. What is not a reason for TMV? As they say there would be a desire, but there is a reason!
      2. The release could be carried out by the MTR using American weapons and having documents that they are residents of England, even with the worst development of the situation, there would be no evidence that we would not have been. And then the question is, why complicate it by creating some kind of PMCs, if it is possible to work under any foreign structure?
      3. So it turns out that foreign policy does not depend on whether there are PMCs in Russia or not, but on political will! And about the propaganda effect of the situation when the people see that the government is ready to at least fit the aircraft carrier to save the citizens of Russia, I think it’s not necessary to say.
  27. Nehist
    Nehist 25 February 2018 03: 07
    0
    I especially amused the authors' conclusion that they are not historically and morally necessary. But will it be known to the authors that Siberia was annexed precisely by people outside the law? And they were hired by private merchants! Hmm, it’s also worth recalling that due to the lack of PMCs, our so-called state corporations such as Gazprom and TD lost their contracts in Libya after the overthrow of Gaddafi. The PMC skate is by no means a guard but the conduct of local combined-arms operations.
    1. 82т11
      82т11 25 February 2018 09: 24
      0
      And even in those days, there was slavery in Russia, can we return to slavery? Give each oligarch and official in the village of slaves?)
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 25 February 2018 12: 11
        0
        Have fun! More than half of the country is in slavery and there is no need to return, they have long since returned after 93
        1. trak
          trak 25 February 2018 13: 14
          0
          Well, often you at the stable are whipped in your "slavery"? Or are you from the other half?
        2. 82т11
          82т11 25 February 2018 14: 13
          0
          Let's just without these big words))
          If we have half the country in slavery, then what do you care about the interests of the new slave owners?
      2. trak
        trak 25 February 2018 13: 06
        0
        So after all slavery was in 1812 year. So, in your opinion, Borodino does not count, and should we not come to Paris either?