Military Review

On the Su-35 experiencing fifth-generation technology

59
The Russian Su-35 fighter has become a platform for improving the technology of the fifth-generation Su-57 aircraft, Sukhoi reported.


In Su-35 applied many advanced technologies. It is a kind of platform for the development of technical solutions used in the aircraft PAK FA (Su-57)
- Leads "Interfax" words of the employee of the press service of "Sukhoi".

On the Su-35 experiencing fifth-generation technology


This, in particular, is about the avionics complex, which helps the pilot to navigate in a difficult combat situation. With the help of radar and optical sensors, reconnaissance complex and ground control systems, the pilot receives real-time information about everything that happens around the aircraft. Earlier it was reported that the onboard electronics Su-57, if necessary, can take over most of the work on piloting the aircraft, freeing the pilot to perform a combat mission.

20 February, the company "Sukhoi" celebrated 10 years since the day of the first Su-35 flight. Heavy fighter generation 4 ++ is designed to gain air supremacy, it can carry up to eight tons of bombs and missiles. Su-35 detects targets at a distance of 400 kilometers, and in melee air combat its key advantage is super-maneuverability, provided by thrust vector-controlled engines, reports RG-Sil
Photos used:
Yuri Smithyuk / TASS
59 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Imh
    Imh 21 February 2018 13: 15
    +3
    Very well. Technology development is a good thing. What about the second-line engine for PakFA? The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance. If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation. It would be a strategic victory over the United States.
    1. Vkd dvk
      Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 13: 20
      +8
      Quote: IMH
      Very well. Technology development is a good thing. What about the second-line engine for PakFA? The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance. If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation. It would be a strategic victory over the United States.

      YOU have never worked as a constructor. Hence such a misconception. Even if you bring 9 pregnant women together, .... I see?
      1. Imh
        Imh 21 February 2018 13: 24
        +3
        It is clear that it is clear, but in my opinion, there is NOTHING worthy in the fifth generation. So far, we need to finish the fourth, increase the performance characteristics and think about something fundamentally new. It's like a shooter - from the time of the intermediate cartridge, NO ONE and ANYWHERE have advanced.
        1. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 13: 49
          +1
          Quote: IMH
          It is clear that it is clear, but in my opinion, there is NOTHING worthy in the fifth generation. So far, we need to finish the fourth, increase the performance characteristics and think about something fundamentally new. It's like a shooter - from the time of the intermediate cartridge, NO ONE and ANYWHERE have advanced.

          Do not resemble Krylov's fable. There we are talking about one animal and Oak.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 21 February 2018 13: 27
        +5
        He has been hanging here for two days. What can the troll understand?
        Quote: wkd dvk
        Quote: IMH
        Very well. Technology development is a good thing. What about the second-line engine for PakFA? The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance. If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation. It would be a strategic victory over the United States.

        YOU have never worked as a constructor. Hence such a misconception. Even if you bring 9 pregnant women together, .... I see?
        1. Imh
          Imh 21 February 2018 13: 28
          0
          If you call every person who disagrees with your opinion a troll, then I am a Troll.
          1. Vkd dvk
            Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 13: 52
            +6
            Quote: IMH
            If you call every person who disagrees with your opinion a troll, then I am a Troll.

            Baba Yaga was also opposed.
            Give arguments. And in your practice, PROVE that you can jump over the generation of technology, begin to fence something perfect. You are not even Jules Verne. He at least climbed encyclopedias, studying and comprehending. And you ..... (I have too many penalties for harshness).
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 21 February 2018 21: 02
              +4
              Quote: Vkd dvk
              And in your practice, PROVE that you can jump over the generation of technology, begin to fence something perfect.

              I don’t think it’s possible to “jump over” a generation, but ...
              When the great designer Robert Ludwigovich Bartini after the Second World War was asked if the USSR could catch up with the advanced aviation powers, he replied that he probably didn’t. But you can go across! ))) hi
              1. Vkd dvk
                Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 21: 31
                +2
                Quote: Kurare
                Quote: Vkd dvk
                And in your practice, PROVE that you can jump over the generation of technology, begin to fence something perfect.

                I don’t think it’s possible to “jump over” a generation, but ...
                When the great designer Robert Ludwigovich Bartini after the Second World War was asked if the USSR could catch up with the advanced aviation powers, he replied that he probably didn’t. But you can go across! ))) hi

                My profession taught me to comprehend at first, and only after that to reject. Not understanding the reason for the failure, you will not take a step forward. And further. A negative result teaches better than a positive one. Perpendicular moves are possible only when you see straight paths. And finally. Without a multiplication table, there is nothing to take on logarithms.
                1. Kurare
                  Kurare 21 February 2018 22: 30
                  +2
                  I agree with you, 100%. This is what I had in mind when I wrote that I did not think that I could jump over. Just what Bartini said are the words of a genius and an artist. He was given this. Maybe in our time there are such "Bartini".
                  1. Vkd dvk
                    Vkd dvk 22 February 2018 00: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: Kurare
                    I agree with you, 100%. This is what I had in mind when I wrote that I did not think that I could jump over. Just what Bartini said are the words of a genius and an artist. He was given this. Maybe in our time there are such "Bartini".

                    The Soviet school of instruction perished. She was different from all those who taught universals. In our complex world, universal education is becoming increasingly necessary. Brain sharpening in narrow directions, when the super-doctor of sciences understands Higgs basics as God, but does not understand horseradish in electricity or dentistry (I exaggerate), he will not be able to invent a way to grow teeth instead of those lost even in old age. And only one who (of course) is less versed in hundreds of different disciplines is able to come up with a combination of electrical impulses, chemical effects and training of the nervous system so that ...... And he will invite a narrow specialist when he needs to. The main thing is to be widely educated, so that your horizons allow you to connect the unconnected.
    2. Zubr
      Zubr 21 February 2018 13: 29
      +3
      Well, the designers know better, in the end, no one has yet been able to fully formulate the concept of the 6 generation, except for hypersound and stealth. On the 35, they can supply a second-stage engine, a radar, AVIONIKU from the 6-th generation. In reality, everything can be very different, and a completely different design of the airframe. It is even possible that this will be near space.
      1. Imh
        Imh 21 February 2018 13: 31
        +1
        I think that we need to work towards hypersound and unmanned.
      2. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 13: 54
        +2
        Quote: Zubr
        Well, the designers know better, in the end, no one has yet been able to fully formulate the concept of the 6 generation, except for hypersound and stealth. On the 35, they can supply a second-stage engine, a radar, AVIONIKU from the 6-th generation. In reality, everything can be very different, and a completely different design of the airframe. It is even possible that this will be near space.

        If you were at least NEAR the designer, you would know that 80-90% of all errors in this matter are committed just at the stage of setting the task. That is, at the very beginning of the work.
        From a misunderstanding by both the military (customers) and developers.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 February 2018 13: 31
      +12
      Quote: IMH
      What about the second-line engine for PakFA?

      They are already testing it ... while the fighter has its own name, SU-57.
      Quote: IMH
      The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance

      Seriously? wassat Well, if in your understanding 50 years is soon, then of course. And if you are going to talk about fighters of the 6th generation, then immediately voice the requirements for it.
      Quote: IMH
      If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation.

      Yeah ... why not immediately bother with a 10-generation fighter? Here, with the 5th generation, all countries have their own requirements, and in fact, the 5th generation serial fighter (closest to it) is the Raptor. The SU-57 is not in the series, the Chinese ... well, he’s of such a 5th generation as the toilet is a hadron collider. And in fact, while the fighter generation 5 in the serial version is only in the United States. I will not say anything about the F-35, maybe it's anything, just not a fighter of the same generation as the lizard.
      1. Imh
        Imh 21 February 2018 13: 36
        +2
        Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right? Need to look at the prospect. We need to work on a STRATEGIC advantage. Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 February 2018 13: 47
          +12
          Quote: IMH
          Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right?

          wassat That is, afterburning supersonic, stealth, arsenal, the introduction of precision weapons, and so on, are there not so many differences? Are you serious? Compare the SU-57 with the MIG-21 or MIG-23 ... the game is called-find 10 differences. wassat
          Quote: IMH
          Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.

          Dear, from what hangover did you decide that the SU-57 is a copy of the Raptor? Visual similarity? So it does not exist, from the word at all. The concepts are different. If the SU-57 was originally developed as a multi-purpose vehicle, then the lizard was created as a fighter to gain dominance in the air and only very recently, it was taught to work normally on land and on naval targets. This is the same as comparing a multipurpose submarine with an SSBN.
        2. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 13: 57
          +1
          Quote: IMH
          Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right? Need to look at the prospect. We need to work on a STRATEGIC advantage. Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.

          Russia does not go in any fairway. Therefore, all potential "partners" have to catch up with us in many matters.
        3. Alex-a832
          Alex-a832 21 February 2018 14: 07
          +4
          Quote: IMH
          Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right? Need to look at the prospect. We need to work on a STRATEGIC advantage. Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.

          Are you sure about the fifth generation of fighters? Judging by the comments, it’s more like discussing the next generation of iPhone. It’s only the “stubs” released a new generation, and two further follow up.
        4. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk 22 February 2018 18: 16
          0
          Quote: IMH
          Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right? Need to look at the prospect. We need to work on a STRATEGIC advantage. Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.

          When you are faced with a task, to perform certain functions, in a well-defined environment where the same constants work, the same requirements, the same tasks, you inevitably get exactly the same wheel that dozens invented thousand years ago, the Sumerians.
          Compare the appearance of the aircraft developed by different design bureaus in a terrible secret, and you will not find the differences. Strange, huh? And nobody rubbed at anyone. The formulas are the same. The task is the same. Physical constants on Earth, even in Africa, even in Holland. Hence the result. Here the plane for lunar flights will be completely different.
        5. helmi8
          helmi8 22 February 2018 21: 17
          0
          Quote: IMH
          Look at the aviation of 1968 and the aviation of 2018. There are not so many fundamental differences, right? Need to look at the prospect. We need to work on a STRATEGIC advantage. Russia needs to become a trendsetter, and not go in someone’s channel.

          But look at the wheel ... Do you want to become a trendsetter in this regard?
    4. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 21 February 2018 13: 44
      +2
      The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance

      Each has its 5th generation, which FSA 5e would hardly have pulled in 4th, this dull duckling is more likely to be called fools and of course you can call it 7m ...
      and not go in someone’s fairway.

      So, Russia has its own requirements for the 5th generation are exaggerated (not just as a weapon carrier but as a modern combat unit), they also prepare a new engine with might and main, and there are no equal with the old one, plus they have already talked about replacing the moment 31 I think they are also preparing with might and main aircraft a new generation and PAK YES will also be completely new.
    5. JD1979
      JD1979 21 February 2018 13: 55
      +1
      Quote: IMH
      If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation. It would be a strategic victory over the United States.

      You then pass by. And those countries that have a developed aviation industry will not pass by. If the 4-4 ++ generation has been serving for how many years and still will serve, then the 5th is also likely no less allocated. And where to go then? to 6th? or immediately 10mu? You may already have an idea what these generations should have? At least in the concept. Or do you already have technologies for the production of materials, equipment, engines for this equipment? No? For some reason it seemed so. Advise not to build.
    6. Kent0001
      Kent0001 21 February 2018 14: 16
      +1
      And so it is. MIG-41. Americans are already written. wink
    7. Lock36
      Lock36 21 February 2018 14: 29
      +1
      Quote: IMH
      The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance.

      I understand that in addition to F22, so far there is not a single finished product in the world at all (and that one has already been discontinued from production). So, why is this fifth generation losing relevance? Will its 6th generation displace?
      So no one to build it ....
    8. gridasov
      gridasov 21 February 2018 16: 50
      +1
      This is a pipe illusion that you can create a new engine without understanding what physical processes should be used .. And in order to understand this, new methods of analysis of complex processes are needed. Therefore, some create iron, while others investigate the properties of the medium, but they cannot unite. It means that the problem is facing everyone, and not just the Russians
    9. Mikhail Zubkov
      Mikhail Zubkov 22 February 2018 00: 42
      0
      These technologies were already worked out on the Tu-16, but the mattresses overslept it. But then we still did not have absolutely secure long-distance communication channels of air-mobile control centers - now we have such. We can even put the Tu-16 back into service from sludge - and each will be enough to defeat any of your meanest AUGs. Take a look at Wikipedia, the ignoramus how many of them we had - and after all, trained crews from the reserve will now be able to control them from the ground, remotely. Because of their health, they can’t fly into heaven, and from the earth they will comb you very nicely, because under the USSR they are well trained. Scratch turnips, whales!
    10. ver_
      ver_ 22 February 2018 07: 51
      0
      ... they are doing it - the 6th generation ... because this horse is not for humans ...
  2. Vard
    Vard 21 February 2018 13: 15
    +6
    It is likely that the elements of the fifth generation that will be tested ... will be put into service including the SU-35 .... and not just the PAK FA ...
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 21 February 2018 13: 18
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      It is likely that the elements of the fifth generation that will be tested ... will be put into service including the SU-35 .... and not just the PAK FA ...

      With the next modernization - most likely it will be so.
  3. Altona
    Altona 21 February 2018 13: 20
    +4
    Quote: IMH
    The fifth generation fighter will soon lose its relevance.

    -----------------------------
    Come on? Here, many were preoccupied with the return of piston aviation as a budget option to combat all kinds of separatist insurgents, partisans, Islamic terrorists. And you want to push advanced planes into the emergency parking lot.
    1. Imh
      Imh 21 February 2018 13: 27
      +1
      The problem of modern aviation has given rise to the reincarnation of piston attack aircraft. The unit price and the flight hour price of modern aviation are so high that it’s no longer possible to fight with it, only to carry around exhibitions. I believe that a hundred Su-27/30 or F-15 modernized by any AFAR and others like it are much more valuable for the defense of the state than a dozen or two F-22/35 or PakFA.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 21 February 2018 19: 55
        0
        Well, the price difference is not so huge, and it is compensated by the characteristics.
      2. Kurare
        Kurare 21 February 2018 21: 09
        +2
        Quote: IMH
        The problem of modern aviation has given rise to the reincarnation of piston attack aircraft.

        And where did you find the piston combat aircraft? wink
        This is not a "problem of modern aviation", it is a problem of world order. The military operations of today are very different from what they were preparing for. But this does not mean that expensive combat aircraft will give way to cheap propeller-driven aircraft.
      3. aliis-M
        aliis-M 22 February 2018 23: 30
        0
        And here I agree with you, it is unlikely that the Su-57 will be as golden as the F-22, it’s not particularly customary for us to mount defense enterprises here. This time.
        Aviation should be of two types:
        1) Aircraft of maximum performance (to ensure superiority over the enemy in local conflicts);
        2) Relatively cheap in the construction and operation of aircraft (for intensive military operations).
        1) we will have the Su-57, 2) we already have - the Su-30SM, and the Su-35S will also be included in them.
        This was the way the USSR went with the Su-27 and MiG-29 (as it turned out, we won’t go into it, that's not the point), we think, we’ll go the same way). These are all two).
  4. Altona
    Altona 21 February 2018 13: 21
    0
    Quote: Vard
    It is likely that the elements of the fifth generation that will be tested ... will be put into service including the SU-35 .... and not just the PAK FA ...

    -----------------------
    And why wouldn’t he put a chopped nose cone, well, and similar fuselage stealth cosmetics?
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 21 February 2018 20: 01
      0
      He has stealth cosmetics: special coloring, composites in the glider. Visibility is reduced by six times compared to the SU-27. The rest does not make sense easier to assemble the su-57.
  5. Fkjydjckfrgh
    Fkjydjckfrgh 21 February 2018 13: 23
    +1
    I don’t understand from the word “vaaschpe”, why do ours pray so much for the “5th generation”? As an “invulnerable carrier of long-range missiles”, the MiG-31 is quite suitable, as a “fighter for maneuverable combat” - it is still better than the Su-27 (35) and MiG-29 (35 back) to be invented. Or stupidly "want them like"?
    1. Imh
      Imh 21 February 2018 13: 29
      0
      We are with you for sedition wink
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 February 2018 13: 39
      +10
      Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh
      I don’t understand from the word “vaaschpe”, why do ours pray so much for the “5th generation”?

      The concept of "5 generation" was introduced by zhurnalyugi ... but in fact, the SU-57 is a further development of our fighter aircraft, that is, a NEW Fighter, which will become the platform for modernization in the future, etc.
      Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh
      As an “invulnerable carrier of long-range missiles,” the MiG-31 is quite suitable,

      MIG-31 was developed as one of the components of our missile defense, sharpened by the interception of the Kyrgyz Republic first of all.
      Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh
      as a “fighter for maneuvering combat” - better than the Su-27 (35) and MiG-29 (35 back) has not yet been invented.

      Seriously? Doesn’t it bother you that the SU-27 and MIG-29 platforms have been upgraded for 40 years already, or do you propose, without bothering, to upgrade them for another 100 years? SU-57 is a NEW DESTINATING PLATFORM. At the same time, new technologies are being tested on it, which will be used in creating a new light fighter, interceptor, etc.
      With the same success, you can ask, And why do we need Armata, if there is a T-72?
  6. soldier
    soldier 21 February 2018 13: 28
    +16
    Basis of course 27th
    Elements of the 5th generation are, including on the engine which is very important.
    Hope to be further dispersed
    Although we need a new device, the sixth generation - to remove questions on the fifth
  7. Altona
    Altona 21 February 2018 13: 30
    +1
    Quote: IMH
    I believe that a hundred Su-27/30 or F-15 modernized by any AFAR and others like it are much more valuable for the defense of the state than a dozen or two F-22/35 or PakFA.

    ---------------------------------
    The cost of a flight hour of the Su-57 promises to be within reason. As for the 4th generation aircraft, nobody canceled the development of the airframe resource. Therefore, after a certain time, the plane will still go to waste.
  8. Imh
    Imh 21 February 2018 13: 33
    +1
    Quote: Zubr
    ... in the end, no one has yet been able to fully formulate the concept of the 6th ...


    I believe that Russia, as a technologically advanced superpower, can itself formulate what it needs from the sixth generation. Why look back at someone?
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 February 2018 13: 54
      +9
      Quote: IMH
      I believe that Russia, as a technologically advanced superpower, can itself formulate what it needs from the sixth generation.

      There is no concept of a 6th generation fighter, from the word completely, no one. There are hoteliers, from which we dance. They want lasers, plasma weapons, hyper sound ... but all this needs to be developed, brought to working serial products, and then forced to do it all work on one platform. It is clearly voiced that the SU-57 is being developed (platform) for 50 years. The MIG-29 and SU-27 platforms have already been in operation for 40 years, the same situevin and the main routes with the F-15,16,18 ...
      1. Lock36
        Lock36 21 February 2018 14: 34
        +1
        I do not agree. An understanding is already being formed that the 6th generation will be unmanned.
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 21 February 2018 14: 57
          +2
          not really. there is a vision of MO (designers most likely agree) that in the sixth generation there will be a mixed system. those. a pilot on a manned vehicle at the head of a link (or more) drones that will cover the command vehicle and work in battle depending on the situation: receiving commands from the commander, or independently i.e. AI will take place.
          1. Lock36
            Lock36 21 February 2018 20: 14
            +2
            It is possible that you are right, I’m not so much in the subject.
            Although the presentation of the same Boeing has already flickered precisely on the 6th generation - there are only unmanned vehicles.
          2. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 February 2018 20: 29
            +6
            Quote: newbie
            AI will take place.

            AI will appear in 100 years, or maybe even more ... and all this time what will we build? I repeat, do not confuse clear understanding and tasks with Wishlist.
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 21 February 2018 20: 45
              0
              maybe in a hundred years, maybe in half a hundred years, that’s not the question. as seen by the air fleet (as I described above) and the MO and the UAC engineers. and when the possibility of drones with AI appears under the leadership of a directly living pilot, then the era of the sixth generation will come. I repeat, such a fundamental vision of our aircraft industry, unlike the western one, ours are not ready to give everything into the hands of AI.
            2. Vkd dvk
              Vkd dvk 21 February 2018 21: 42
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              Quote: newbie
              AI will take place.

              AI will appear in 100 years, or maybe even more ... and all this time what will we build? I repeat, do not confuse clear understanding and tasks with Wishlist.

              What they are trying to do now is called AI, it has nothing to do with it.
              Just because of the impossibility of understanding -
              what it is. What it is. Intelligence is that which is buried in man. but it’s impossible to look at one’s own insides and sort through them, trying to create something like that. Just like Munchausen could not pull himself by the hair from the swamp. One cannot understand oneself while being in oneself. It is possible only from the side, having another point of support. But then a person must become non-human.
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 21 February 2018 23: 30
                0
                two questions. first: what is your understanding of AI? second: where does the human intellect? (At the moment, the first rudiments of AI have already been created, which can develop when interacting with a person, given m calculating a person’s reaction to one or another and developing actions based on this. That is, depending on the algorithm laid down, the AI ​​develops logical steps to help to the person, or vice versa_ to the detriment. by the way, AI is deprived of the influence of feelings and emotions on its actions, since it is inanimate. here the comparison with our intellect is incorrect, and precisely because AI has reached the level of co-development in our time, our engineers do not want to trust decision-making is solely for him.that is it possible to keep the big question under control of the AI.Ibr he is both extremely useful and extremely dangerous_ one day he can decide that a person is a hindrance, then ...
                1. Vkd dvk
                  Vkd dvk 22 February 2018 00: 03
                  0
                  Quote: newbie
                  two questions. first: what is your understanding of AI? second: where does the human intellect? (At the moment, the first rudiments of AI have already been created, which can develop when interacting with a person, given m calculating a person’s reaction to one or another and developing actions based on this. That is, depending on the algorithm laid down, the AI ​​develops logical steps to help to the person, or vice versa_ to the detriment. by the way, AI is deprived of the influence of feelings and emotions on its actions, since it is inanimate. here the comparison with our intellect is incorrect, and precisely because AI has reached the level of co-development in our time, our engineers do not want to trust decision-making is solely for him.that is it possible to keep the big question under control of the AI.Ibr he is both extremely useful and extremely dangerous_ one day he can decide that a person is a hindrance, then ...

                  I don’t understand what AI is. For the simple reason that no one (I think so) knows what intelligence is.
                  A person cannot invent what cannot fit into his imaginative thinking. At first, ANYTHING develops in his brain in the form of a picture. Man thinks not in formulas, but in images. To teach SOMETHING to think in images is impossible. It is possible only through the tedious and endless formalization of what you want to receive. But with this a person will always have insurmountable difficulties.
                  Try to formalize and put into the brain of that very creature (?) The concept of SKY. Or the river.
  9. zivXP
    zivXP 21 February 2018 14: 45
    +1
    Quote: IMH
    If I were Russia and China, I would pass by the fifth generation and focus on new, breakthrough technologies that would lead to the sixth generation.

    It’s good that you are in your place. :)
  10. viralig
    viralig 21 February 2018 15: 28
    +2
    I do not want to offend anyone, but the criteria for generations are arbitrary. They supposedly must measure milestones in military aircraft construction, and are described by different requirements for aircraft. Which are formed proceeding from those. tasks (customer needs). Accordingly, there are no criteria for the 6th generation - there is no topic about him, and, accordingly, no aircraft. Yes, you can only try to predict what it can be, which is what design bureaus do based on the best practices and the expected expectations of the customer. And you won’t be able to jump over a generation. Unless, of course, "copy" someone else's technology, as the Chinese do. But here there are pitfalls - who are interested look for example about the reliability of Chinese engines. Next, there should be a material base for this breakthrough, a scientific reserve for the whole complex (to the plane), since the plane is not only a glider. And the integration of all arms of service will only get worse with further informatization. Yes, you can say that one of the conditions for the transition to the sixth generation will be near space, but this is only one of the conditions. There are no others. And the near future is not foreseen for the 5th generation has room to grow and its full potential is not revealed. If you understand not one of the aircraft declared as a fifth-generation aircraft, it does not reach it, at least by one parameter. Although each country individually can consider it 5, because each has its own vision of hostilities and, accordingly, its own representation. And whoever has a more accurate idea will judge leash time.
    And there is no sense in jet airplanes, where motor airplanes can be used either - it is not without reason that the Americans are refusing new airplanes to crawl future more promising ones, and they are leaving the B-52 once again. Although they are not cutting the military budget weakly, they can count the remaining money. And just let’s swell the money - it’s known how it ends (Example: one of the main reasons for the collapse of the USSR is a damaged economy).
    1. Tektor
      Tektor 21 February 2018 17: 41
      0
      Milestones of generations are by no means arbitrary: a new generation aircraft should beat a previous generation aircraft in its initial configuration in 99 cases out of 100 duels. Those. the next generation aircraft becomes invulnerable to the previous one in an unmodified form.
      1. viralig
        viralig 21 February 2018 19: 33
        +1
        Well, it can be argued, in terms of a) the level of technology in one case or another b) means of destruction
        c) the combined arms concept. Well, it’s not clear what to take for the initial configuration, for example, the first flying SU-57 and the current version, the glider was radically redesigned or with the second-series engine and improvements at that time. In my opinion, the MIG-21 in the initial stages had enormous problems with the strength of the airframe (its life) and it was already in the series, and then it was changing urgently - the question is what to take for the initial one. Or MIG-29 are two versions of 1983 and 2015. So these are actually 2 completely different aircraft under the same name. Also by means of destruction and avionics, etc. Well, if you look at your option, then between the arquebus and the machine - 1 generation, and also years of improvements) I just give an example by the fact that some criteria in particular - stealth can disappear from the 5th generation criterion altogether, and for example, advanced AI will be added. Regarding stealth, let us recall Yugoslavia and the old Soviet missile of the C125 complex. So I lead to the fact that this is all far-fetched because the pilot skill, weather conditions, the suddenness of certain actions and a bunch of things are not taken into account. factors. Ideal conditions do not exist to say it is 99% superior to the previous one. Criteria sit in the heads of people and they invented them)
  11. Hadji Murat
    Hadji Murat 22 February 2018 15: 30
    0
    but where is the information that the su-57 arrived in Syria ????
  12. lance
    lance 22 February 2018 16: 07
    0
    the main postulates of the 6th generation are already formed and are listed here in the discussion: hyperspeed, stealth, AI (droneless), high-precision, atmosphere-stratosphere. but the main task of all the troops is to inflict unacceptable damage - the aircraft is slowly and confidently moving towards the missile.
  13. viralig
    viralig 22 February 2018 21: 22
    0
    Well, about the 6th generation, you can argue with foam at the mouth, but all the experts who suggest about the requirements for a 6th generation airplane - they’re trying to predict what will happen. The real customers of the aircraft are the military of one country or another, and as they say
    who pays and orders music
    . The plans for the development of the 6th generation were announced only by the USA (they gave Lockhead Martin) and Russia (nothing was said specifically about the plane itself - it was just that scientific research was being conducted). I did not officially meet with requirements for them. So this is a hunch. More than most of the rest of the countries, you are also comfortable with the 4th generation, which are doing their job well in the current war.
    But laser weapons are problems with the laser installation itself, and there are two more problems with the power installation for it, the cooling system is three. Stealth - so the 5th generation should have it, etc. Show please the official requirements for it - not the press, but from the Pentagon or from the Russian Aerospace Forces (the latter will not be realistic because of secrecy and until the finished car appears we will not know). And besides, nobody put on the wing except the USA, prototypes do not count. SU-57, although a good car, but it still needs to be brought to mind from 3 to 5 years. The Chinese also have problems, although they said they were let into the series. Japan seems to have been blown away, but I don’t see who else could do the 5th generation.
    It’s too early to talk about the 6th generation - there is neither the material nor the technical base for a negative view, as I once again emphasize those tasks. I can also give different versions, for example, why don’t I take the ideal of AKI from the Batle universe of those - there are lazers and neuro controls .....
    Once again, I say that weapons are not being developed with the kandachka — but for specific purposes, no one (except the United States) will allocate money for mythical projects, but will you beat the fly with the intercontinental leash because it’s cool, and even more so a rocket for these goals to develop.