Military Review

What to do with the import, allegedly replaced in the army?

150
I want to talk about the day tomorrow of our army. And not only the army, but the army question - it is very burning as it were.


When I have every household appliance in my apartment, from TV to a coffee grinder, talks about how much the sanctions helped us become more independent from the outside world and what leaps and bounds the import substitution goes around the country, I understand (especially looking at all these Sony, Bosch, Philips, Acer and others around him) that everything goes as it should. And where necessary.

And it even becomes somehow so indifferent that all these “achievements” of our aircraft industry in the face of An-148 and “Superjet-100” are in fact the same hodgepodge from around the world.

Perhaps this is not even so bad. This is clearly good for our passenger car industry; products from Togliatti and Izhevsk with each model are increasingly beginning to resemble cars in the world sense. Another 15-20 years of such an evolution, and disc rear brakes, power steering and automatic transmissions will become an integral part of the VAZ model. The multimedia systems could - it means that someday it will all appear.

True, a huge number of agricultural equipment from Western manufacturers, frankly, is not impressive so far. As well as the increasing availability of, for example, road machinery and excavators.

But omit these nuances, we will focus on the army.

When you observe with your own eyes the principle “no - well, to hell with it, we will buy it from a neighbor”, on the one hand, like nothing. When it comes to microwaves or telephones, it’s all for yourself.

But when you begin to observe the manifestations of this principle in the army, then you begin to scratch the back of your head, wondering if this will be a side effect.

It would seem a trifle - an alternator. Well, what could be easier? Really in such a "failed"?

It turns out that yes, they could not. Constantly on the exercises you come across imported ones. And it would be fine, the Chinese. So no, according to reviews of employees, really cool generators from the company Lombardini. Not to be confused with Lamborghini.



However, a firm from Italy with a 80-year history, the world leader among manufacturers of diesel engines with power up to 50 kW.

Italy. NATO member since 1949. A country that pursues an “open and independent” policy.

And here there is only one question. And if tomorrow is another round of sanctions? And for a huge number of diesel generators will stop selling us repair kits and spare parts? What's next? To rely on China?

In general, we have had a lot of talk about how well we have collaborated with the member countries of the NATO bloc. Here you and the "mistralnaya" theme with the French, immediately and "Lynx" as a miscarriage from the Italian Iveco.



But the issue of non-volatility of the army is very annoying with its presence. Sorry, but this is nonsense, if a part is not able to complete the task, as there will be no energy for the complexes and systems. Due to failure and inability to repair the generators.

Farther. Next we have computers and laptops. There is generally sadness and longing.

"Panasonic" and its copies as the only ones who produce protected from moisture and mechanical effects laptops.





Yes, our "potential" from the US Army uses the same models from the same company. Another question is to whom it is more profitable, and from whom, on occasion, Japanese manufacturers will go about.

By the way, I saw the same thing in the "new" topographical center. Yes, instead of three trucks now one. And all thanks to the fact that the equipment from the Canon company takes up less space.



The rest is such a trifle as uninterruptible power supply units from APC, monitors from ASUS, processors from IBM - just as a fact. No more.







Surveying equipment. Here we have "Lake". Germany, as it were.



But in essence, these are all vulnerable areas of the army. According to the full program.

Moreover, I am not talking about imported components, which do not cause concern. For example, Belarusian sights. “Pleated”, “Pine-U”, PKP-T, “Sozh-M”, “Spring-K”. Their presence on Russian equipment from BMP-3 to BMPT Terminator and Tanks (all) do not seem to be a weak spot.

Although it is very interesting what the specialists of St. Petersburg and Krasnogorsk do.

But everything that comes from Italy, Japan, the Republic of China (Taiwan) and our other “partners” is not only a matter of concern, it is caused by the feeling that in “the case of something” we are not only exposed to vulnerability.

On the websites devoted to import substitution and on the pages of certain media there is a lot and colorfully telling today about the success of this very replacement.

But the reality is that replacing tomatoes on the market is one thing, and the processors in the military computer and the generator powering this computer are another. And the processor, produced in Taiwan (even if it seems to be a domestic "Elbrus"), and the Italian diesel generator, and everything else - this can not be called a victory and confidence in the day tomorrow.

Will not put Canon filler for cartridges - what to print cards?

Do not put Lombardini rings, brushes and filters for generators - what to replace?

On the processors in our computers and other attributes of modernity in general, a special conversation.

Topographic and geodetic instruments from “Leika”. Sanctions, lack of supplies, spare parts and what? Everything, on the cards we put a cross? Will we print this cross on Canon?

Strange position, to be honest. Like the war for "his, Russian", but in practice? Actually, I showed only part of the import. But - in our army.

It seems to be trifles, but it is with trifles that everything usually begins.
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 20 February 2018 06: 56
    +24
    Roman Skomorokhov, you are a “prowler”, and polymers are there too ... lol but in fact, the bitter truth, alas. "import substitution", has the technology "stealth" - apparently not a damn ... maybe everything is so classified that even the military is not allowed? crying recourse
    1. svp67
      svp67 20 February 2018 07: 12
      +27
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      but in fact, the bitter truth, alas. "import substitution", has the technology "stealth" - apparently not a damn ... maybe everything is so classified that even the military is not allowed?

      And why someone is surprised ... For so many years the basic principle has been, and we will receive money for oil, and if necessary, we will buy, WHAT DOES SURPRISE? Or does someone think that any production by magic appears? So no, it still needs to be built and put in place, personnel must be trained for it, and this is the matter of DECADES. So, these "import" components will be in front of our eyes for a long time to come. The question now should be posed differently, namely: "What is planned and what has been done to establish the process of industrial sovereignty?" And now it is to him to seek answers. Personally, I know of several industries that were successfully ruined after the collapse of the USSR, and are now being restored, on a completely new basis. The main thing now is not to destroy these "sprouts"
      1. Mestny
        Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 10
        +3
        That is, the incoherent set of words of the previous speaker is not surprising?
        The main barrel organ is "lost" to unwind?
        1. businessv
          businessv 20 February 2018 20: 36
          +8
          Quote: Mestny
          That is, the incoherent set of words of the previous speaker is not surprising?
          The main barrel organ is "lost" to unwind?

          Yes, do not spin the barrel organ, but talk about what is bothering! And it is quite sensible! Unfortunately, "catching up" on electronics slowly, very slowly! Well, there will be a reason for revising privatization.))) Finance needs a bit too much for this area of ​​production, not to mention development. But how to steal ?! It would be better to dispossess the colonels, with their apartments - safes, not to mention the generals, you look and go, let's go!
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 22 February 2018 00: 09
            +4
            Quote: businessv
            Yes, do not spin the barrel organ, but talk about what is bothering!

            ... Do you recall in what year import substitution began? ... well, Roma, as usual ... played "fools" ... yes, God be his judge ... just think with your head Before the Topographic reference point enters the troops it is necessary:
            - get technical specifications from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation with specific performance characteristics
            - conduct research and development work
            - protect sketch and technical projects
            - create a prototype for internal testing
            - create prototypes for testing state
            - complete state tests with a positive result
            - receive an order from the MO for the "Product"
            - conclude a state contract
            - make "Products"
            - transfer to the Troops "
            ... that in the photo, 10 years minimum ... laughing ... it is so short and accessible ... it is only with Skomorokhov, the cat gives birth the next day, after intercourse, and at the same time immediately for all the animals in the world, kittens, kids, cubs, foals, etc. ... this Roma about import substitution ... I hope the hint is clear to the author ?! ... laughing
        2. Alber
          Alber 21 February 2018 07: 37
          +12
          Quote: Mestny
          That is, the incoherent set of words of the previous speaker is not surprising?
          The main barrel organ is "lost" to unwind?

          Correctly Skomorokhov raised a question!
          At least someone will say something about it, or else the solid praises of the military industrial complex ... "there are no analogues," "the best in the world ..."
          But in reality, our planes also bring down (with the best electronic warfare in the world) problems with submarines, and the Navy is not all right.
          Our parliamentarians fiddled with officials, and the Ministry of Defense badly catches mice.
          Until they liquidate the class of oligarchs, return the stolen money to the country, engage in the revival and restoration of industry, there will be no use.
          And yes, the State Duma must be completely replaced !! There are practically no those who defend the interests of the people. Look at the faces of such individuals as the Isaikins for what they receive such money? By the way, what are their salaries, with all the benefits? Does anyone say more than 700?
          1. 97110
            97110 26 February 2018 18: 41
            0
            Quote: Alber
            Until the class of oligarchs is eliminated

            You hope individual entrepreneurs will selflessly import substitute? Until they become oligarchs? Or are the founders of an LLC already enough for liquidation? And who should eliminate it? To create an extraordinary commission at the expense of the liquidated oligarchs? Or first create, and then eliminate? One world has already been lost, because the Russian army even then considered it stupid to die for class-alien interests. Who said it will be different now? Or, if we select the Communist Grudinin as the main oligarch, will he animate the staff with a communist nomination for unanimous heroic death for increasing capitalist profit?
      2. Shkodnik65
        Shkodnik65 20 February 2018 20: 19
        +4
        Stop, colleagues, you do not need such hasty conclusions. The city of Kursk, OAO Elektroagregat, has been, let’s say, for many years producing electric units for troops and navy. Direct and alternating current, different power. Why am I writing because I have been working at this enterprise for many years. I could take a photo, but I think the curators from the FSB will not understand. Take a word and based on KAMAZ trucks and trailers and semi-trailers. Diesel on them as ours is still Belarusian. And the plant at this number almost doubled in number. I think that the other areas of progress are either there or will be.
        1. Lycan
          Lycan 21 February 2018 09: 28
          +1
          Where, then, is the notorious “substitution”?
          Or Skomorokhov panic from scratch with the help of "fake" arguments?
          PS: I agree, not all at once, this is understandable. But the number of troops of the state requires such enterprises full load at conveyor pace in 3 shifts. Do you have it?
        2. 108- guards pdp
          108- guards pdp 21 February 2018 09: 36
          +1
          I agree, most likely "this dust", that our people are sitting on "overseas products" are visually exposed by a specialist, so that the bourgeois think that we are nowhere without them. And in fact, "come-try" the commissar's body!
          1. tractor driver73
            tractor driver73 21 February 2018 21: 41
            0
            Diesel type U1-D6 and YaAZ-M204 from the time of Tsar Gorokh!
        3. Atilla
          Atilla 22 February 2018 11: 14
          +1
          And then a question to a colleague is, and in what quantity and assortment of these same generators does the enterprise produce. Sufficient or not. but we don’t even have to talk about microelectronics, and so it’s clear.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 21 February 2018 22: 10
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        And why someone is surprised ... For so many years the basic principle has been, and we will receive money for oil, and if necessary, we will buy, WHAT DOES SURPRISE?


        you are owls. are right.
        if you rummage around in Spanish history, we will see that one of the main factors of the degradation of the empire was silver. more precisely, silver mined from the earth in an American colony.
        fossil wealth corrupted the Spanish economy and eradicated the production of anything.
        why, if it’s easier to pay a bag of silver to neighbors?
        countries with a high percentage of fossil revenue must be on the alert.
        when Israel found gas, it alerted me, on the one hand it’s nice, and on the other you can relax too much, but we can’t.
        1. Alber
          Alber 21 February 2018 22: 45
          0
          Quote: Maki Avellievich
          fossil wealth corrupted the Spanish economy and eradicated the production of anything.
          why, if it’s easier to pay a bag of silver to neighbors?
          countries with a high percentage of fossil revenue must be on the alert.
          when Israel found gas, it alerted me, on the one hand it’s nice, and on the other you can relax too much, but we can’t.

          M-yes!
          Israel, according to your ideas, has already distributed its gold with diamonds to neighbors and needy ... So?
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 22 February 2018 06: 35
            +1
            Quote: Alber
            M-yes!
            Israel, according to your ideas, has already distributed its gold with diamonds to neighbors and needy ... So?


            is there anything to express in the case? (rhetorical question)
            1. Alber
              Alber 26 February 2018 09: 10
              0
              Quote: Maki Avellievich
              is there anything to express in the case? (rhetorical question)

              Yeah .... "rhetorical" ...
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 20 February 2018 08: 21
      +16
      There was the other day in the news about the development of the Toros UAV, in fact, an analogue of the "polar" drone with a German diesel engine that was already presented to the public. Apparently, the Germans do not allow the use of an engine for an army machine, sanctions.
      And how many screams were about the fact that "oh horror, you have to pay money for development" ....

      About the same joke was with the "sentry." Everyone was screaming "cut, cut, cut", it was necessary to buy a cheap Chinese analogue, and not to develop it ourselves ..

      So personally, I think this: yes, on the drum, there is this import substitution, there is none, the public does not care
      Here is the same goniometric rangefinder complex from the article.
      There he is in the troops "fsopropalo where import substitution"
      They will replace it with a freshly developed one for a lot of money and purchased for no less big money (because they are actually needed in microscopic amounts), they will scream "FSE, lost, cut, cut."
      In short, do not do it anyway, it’s bad.
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 February 2018 11: 20
        +5
        Quote: Spade
        In short, do not do it anyway, it’s bad.

        And this is the saddest thing, since changing it is NOT POSSIBLE.
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 20 February 2018 20: 08
        +5
        Quote: Spade
        they will yell "fsopropalo, cut, cut, cut."
        In short, do not do it anyway, it’s bad.

        As for cartography, we can do without the Canon, in Russia, the Belomor is still being produced!
        1. svd-xnumx
          svd-xnumx 20 February 2018 20: 49
          0
          There was a story with the cards yesterday too. I have on my computer German maps of our region from the time of the Second World War. Yesterday I searched on the Internet for the Soviet ones, I found them with the inscription "Top Secret", but coinciding with the German 1: 1, only in the German name in German. But the map the source is Soviet, since the Germans did not “erase” one name of the stream and remained in Russian.
      3. lukewarm
        lukewarm 21 February 2018 08: 31
        0
        Quote: Spade
        In short, do not do it anyway, it’s bad.

        This will be so for a long time. It’s just that in these diametrical situations different people scream “badly”. Those who are sharpened for import yell that they’re bad when import wins - the developers and supporters of the domestic one are already shouting a guard.
    3. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 20 February 2018 20: 55
      +4
      When most private enterprises are foolish to wait for them to "exploit" in this matter, no one will develop instruments and equipment at their own expense if they are needed in the army in small quantities.
      1. RAS2002
        RAS2002 20 February 2018 22: 46
        +1
        Need nationalization!
        1. Alf
          Alf 20 February 2018 23: 16
          +3
          Quote: RAS2002
          Need nationalization!

          Yes you what! We already have one truly Russian Kremlin patriot who has long declared - There will be no revision of privatization.
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 20 February 2018 22: 42
      +7
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      Roman Skomorokhov, you are a “prowler”, and polymers are there too ... lol but in fact, the bitter truth, alas. "import substitution", has the technology "stealth" - apparently not a damn ... maybe everything is so classified that even the military is not allowed? crying recourse

      All at once from nothing happens. To listen to the author, as with us, in a famous fairy tale with an original Russian flavor, everything should appear "at the behest of the pike." Over time, we will change this trash of potential "partners" to our own. Another question is how much Western rubbish will surpass our products in terms of reliability, convenience and price or yield to them.
      1. vladhen
        vladhen 21 February 2018 03: 34
        +3
        Well said. From myself I will supplement with an example from life. They gave us collective farmers the task of collecting grain for the season twice as much. We don’t have enough of our seeds - we take foreign ones (in three years our research institutes promise to provide ours - this is not a quick matter), all intensive technologies for modern technology are sharpened - also import (our manufacturer promises to correct the situation in five years). The same situation is with plant protection products. What do we have to wait five years when all of our appear? To sit without grain? And without livestock?
        So it is with the army. If not ten years to wait? If the enemy at the gate is already counting the likely scenarios of force scenarios?
  2. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 20 February 2018 07: 10
    +3
    In general, this is just a disgrace! I hope this issue will somehow be resolved faster.
    1. Artek
      Artek 20 February 2018 07: 58
      +19
      Quote: Herman 4223
      In general, this is just a disgrace! I hope this issue will somehow be resolved faster.

      Of course, vote for Putin and after 18 years, this issue will not be resolved.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 12
        +1
        Some fools will ask so many questions that 1000 wise men will not solve.
        Your questions are of no interest to anyone. As well as mine.
        These are questions of the level "but my roof is leaking in my house and nobody is repairing it."
      2. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 20 February 2018 19: 56
        +2
        Are you for dog and anal? Then the army will be on ...
        1. Artek
          Artek 20 February 2018 21: 06
          +6
          Quote: serezhasoldatow
          Are you for dog and anal? Then the army will be on ...


          our president Grudinin Pavel Nikolaevich.
          1. Lycan
            Lycan 21 February 2018 09: 34
            +1
            But doesn’t it seem to you that this candidate by "appearance" is very much on Macron Pocket Candidate looks like? Where, in fact, was your Grudinin before? Neither its principles, nor the effectiveness of interaction with others, no distinct politic. stories - nothing really is known about him except for managing the state farm (which is a very ̶d̶e̶sh̶ё̶v̶y̶y̶ mean biographical fact).
            1. Maverick1812
              Maverick1812 21 February 2018 14: 40
              +2
              And who was the Guarantor before he became ?!
              1. Lycan
                Lycan 21 February 2018 16: 20
                +1
                Director of the FSB.
                And before that - IO Guarantor.
                And before that - (briefly) by the Prime Minister.
                And before that, he was deputy head of the presidential administration.
                And before that - he headed the regional branch of the party (NDR).
                And before that, he was First Deputy Prime Minister of St. Petersburg.
                [Putin’s duties as deputy chairman of the St. Petersburg government included coordinating the work and interaction of the mayor’s office with the territorial bodies of law enforcement agencies (the Central Internal Affairs Directorate, the Russian Ministry of Defense, the FSB, the prosecutor’s office, the courts, the Customs Committee), as well as political and public organizations].
                And before that - an adviser to the chairman of the Leningrad City Council of People's Deputies Sobchak.
                ...
                PS: Such a convincing baggage.
      3. In100gram
        In100gram 20 February 2018 20: 41
        +4
        Quote: Artek
        Quote: Herman 4223
        In general, this is just a disgrace! I hope this issue will somehow be resolved faster.

        Of course, vote for Putin and after 18 years, this issue will not be resolved.

        I also wrote about this in the next branch. We must not talk about purity, but take a broom, and revenge.
        Putin is doing his job, I have to do mine. And Putin suits me as president.
        1. Artek
          Artek 20 February 2018 21: 07
          0
          Quote: In100gram
          Quote: Artek
          Quote: Herman 4223
          In general, this is just a disgrace! I hope this issue will somehow be resolved faster.

          Of course, vote for Putin and after 18 years, this issue will not be resolved.

          I also wrote about this in the next branch. We must not talk about purity, but take a broom, and revenge.
          Putin is doing his job, I have to do mine. And Putin suits me as president.


          on the one hand, you are offering revenge on the problem of Putin, on the other, you are for Putin, the absurdity turns out.
    2. Atilla
      Atilla 22 February 2018 11: 32
      +1
      And it seems to me all these troubles about the absence of a state program for the development of the most important sectors and even unimportant ones, as the Soviet Union said in the national economy. And who actually develop these programs? To entrust the Medvedev government with this means to ditch everything in advance, to hang out with these shots at the next forum is this thing! They have all sorts of optimizations. Another question is if Putin is such a patriot, then why has he kept this government all these years, well, it’s completely incomprehensible.
  3. Nix1986
    Nix1986 20 February 2018 07: 26
    +6
    So it’s been taken away, and therefore not visible laughing
  4. thinker
    thinker 20 February 2018 07: 47
    +3
    The system is tender - choose price-quality. Well, globalization.
    Tenders of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - total pages: 1634
    Surveying equipment. Here we have "Lake". Germany, as it were.

    Leica Geosystems is a Swiss company owned by the Swedish Hexagon AB. what
    1. Aleksandr69
      Aleksandr69 20 February 2018 08: 42
      +8
      Plusan, as a surveyor. In general, we have a womz that has been producing tacheometers for many decades: they measured the whole country before import, but ... it is heavier, the batteries hold less, the mode is less, and so on. Therefore, they choose the best for the army and this is great. We won’t be left without devices, but if you need to do the bindings and give a choice, I personally will choose a watering can, just like you, I think, you’ll choose not a Kalina, but a Mercedes or Audi
      1. Archon
        Archon 20 February 2018 10: 31
        +3

        we have a lot of money !!!! There are just a lot of them !!!
        1. businessv
          businessv 20 February 2018 21: 00
          0
          Quote: Archon
          we have a lot of money !!!! There are just a lot of them !!!

          these liberals will be removed from government and there will be order! How is it possible to keep such an oddball with the letter M for so long?
          Personally, I have no doubt that here they really have a lot of money!)))
          1. freddyk
            freddyk 20 February 2018 21: 29
            0
            Who will clean? One has already tried.
    2. Usher
      Usher 20 February 2018 20: 18
      +1
      A moronic system, they select the cheapest, and then again pay for the correction, the cheap cannot be of high quality.
  5. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 20 February 2018 07: 56
    +6
    The author addresses a very important topic. But apart from "until," nothing of the article follows ... and has not been proposed. Yes, however, what can you offer. To take advantage of what is, to be smart in the event of breakdowns, they will gradually be replaced by their own samples, dodge in smuggling, etc. When all this equipment was purchased, then somewhere there was no way out, somewhere a little smeared, now that is, in order to “fight” for now. I hope this problem is understood not only at the HE level, but also at the level of the people responsible for planning the equipping of the army.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 20 February 2018 10: 25
      +3
      That's it. Here the sole purpose of the article is the notorious "until."
      Campaigning in indirect form, but to enhance the negative impression of the current government.
      What is characteristic of what has really been done over these past years is not a word, as it was. And of course the crowd of trolls will win back about "nothing has been done."
      A grown man should kindly understand that not everything is done right away. That after so many years of collapse, now at least as many may be needed for replacement. And that it is not possible 100% substitution in principle.
      However, for some reason he writes, blowing into the western pipe.
      People do business, despite corruption and so on. Well, let's break it all in the name of a brighter future, and start again ... once again.
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 20 February 2018 15: 00
        +3
        Yah! The same authors and commentators rush from the position of "all gone," to "left with their caps and add." It is no longer interesting to watch these jumps. Well, raised the topic, so what? And nothing, on this resource there are no people who can change this, which means ... "all the steam went to the whistle." If only they had organized some kind of community, registered and started to prove and shake those who can change this, and here they described this process. No, after all. And will not be. liberals howl so well that "putinsil" you sing along. Maybe you have one feeder?
      2. cast iron
        cast iron 21 February 2018 02: 23
        0
        And let us choose someone else. Not Putin and not EdRo. They are tired. They sit on bread places for too long. Lazy and steal.
    2. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 22: 55
      0
      There is a proven method, but for this we need a single CONSCIOUS popular impulse - movement.

      Satyagraha (Skt. सत्याग्रह, satyāgraha IAST, “standing in the truth”) - in India during the period of British colonial rule, the tactics of non-violent struggle for independence in two forms: non-cooperation and civil disobedience. Designed by Mohandas Gandhi at the beginning of the XNUMXth century.
      1. cast iron
        cast iron 21 February 2018 02: 24
        +3
        Half of our citizens cry and suffer from rising prices and scanty labor relations, but every 4-5-6 years they vote in vain for Putin and EdRo. Schizophrenia and in its purest form.
        1. Alf
          Alf 21 February 2018 22: 12
          0
          Quote: cast iron
          Half of our citizens cry and suffer from rising prices and scanty labor relations, but every 4-5-6 years they vote in vain for Putin and EdRo. Schizophrenia and in its purest form.

          The mice cried, but continued to eat the cactus.
  6. Citizen 90
    Citizen 90 20 February 2018 08: 05
    +20
    Our import substitution is based on the principle: "the government said NADO - urgently redo it on a domestic component base without raising the price of the final product." And the fact that our components are 5-8, and sometimes 20 times more expensive with less functionality and a trivial nomenclature (there is nothing to change simply) is the developers' problems. Who does not believe - read the forums on electronics and compare prices yourself. Prices - information is open.

    But concerns have appeared. Where are the deductions from all plants and design bureaus that almost half a century have existed on the same principles, but without the "control" of concerns, and therefore had more money for development.

    P.S. Looking at the factories, where instead of 10-15 thousand works 1 each, it becomes painfully insulting "For Power", which was thwarted and rotted not even by an external threat, but by a thief at all the leading levels. They earned “tickets” abroad with the whole family if something happened - but in Russia, at least the grass does not grow. Well, young people do not go to sn at 15-20 thousand. Many see what is happening. It’s easier for them to shop around with shopping managers. There are even more prospects.
    1. Pivot
      Pivot 20 February 2018 08: 50
      +1
      Ha ha ha It’s not possible to produce everything, especially high-tech goods. You just need to buy western manufacturers as far as possible. And the article was written by a man who lives back in the 1950s.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 20 February 2018 11: 14
        +7
        And you are naive, the army will not be able to ensure sovereignty if it is not sovereign, in the field of supplying everything you need. Well, imagine the situation that the generators for the T-34, the USSR would buy in Nazi Germany. If something is not in production, then you need to invest , in development. If the characteristics are not set up, the same is possible for Russia, it’s quite possible, we have a big country and opportunities too, they need to be realized.
        1. Pivot
          Pivot 20 February 2018 14: 51
          +1
          You also live in the 50s, I am very sorry for you. Did you accidentally dig a bomb shelter in the yard ???
          1. freddyk
            freddyk 20 February 2018 21: 34
            +2
            He is lucky :-) 50-60 years of the last century, these are the golden years of Russia.
          2. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 21 February 2018 10: 50
            +2
            I live in the twenty-first century, but you don’t know. For our country, it’s quite possible and necessary to do everything (for the army). For years now this is not important, the army should always be independent in supply! This is unchanged for all time. We we don’t live surrounded by allies, just in the 50s, we could not afford to do everything. After all, there were Warsaw Pact countries in the west of the country, and communist China in the east. Now this does not exist and where, when, and on what scale can not break out it is known. And for this we must be prepared to the full.
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 20 February 2018 15: 04
          +2
          I don’t know about the generators, but on the prototypes that drove to Moscow, there were German bearings - a fact. We had production, there was no quality, only then they pulled it up. And now there are no productions, no personnel that can do this. Just an empty place. Do not multiply by 0, it will be 0.
          1. Pivot
            Pivot 20 February 2018 15: 53
            +3
            Our bearings were manufactured first-class, Europe bought them under the Stankoimport brand with pleasure. All kinds of bearings were not very good, in my opinion there were about fifty manufacturers in Soviet times, half of which were very serious. I mean bearings with low runout under the spindle assemblies of CNC machine tools. Now we have 2 plants in my opinion.
      2. Alf
        Alf 20 February 2018 22: 05
        +1
        Quote: Pivot
        You just need to buy western manufacturers as far as possible.

        Here! Holy truth ! Instead of SU-57, it’s necessary to buy the F-35 and not to suffer with the development.
        1. Pivot
          Pivot 20 February 2018 22: 32
          +1
          We must buy not F35 but Lokheed
          1. Alf
            Alf 20 February 2018 23: 14
            +2
            Quote: Pivot
            We must buy not F35 but Lokheed

            GAZ tried several years ago to buy an Opel. Tell me how it ended or guess yourself?
            How in an old joke-to eat, he will eat, but who will give him?
            1. Pivot
              Pivot 21 February 2018 17: 54
              0
              You can buy an electronics manufacturer in Asia, but for a deal to buy Opel, you wanted to sell a company that will not ruin the manufacturer, I think you understand me too.
  7. Vard
    Vard 20 February 2018 08: 27
    +4
    I don’t see a reason for panic ... I’ll hand out a brush for any generator in half an hour ... And what do you think that in the villages they put original parts on imported tractors?
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 20 February 2018 10: 33
      +2
      Auto articles are worried that in case of war, imported generators, monitors and UPSs will immediately cease to work. Obviously, because they hide hidden insidious bookmarks from the pentagon.
      Whether there will be a war or not, we still do not know for sure. But we can assume what will happen if a revolution happens, that is, the advent of popular power instead of crooks and thieves. By analogy with historical examples.
      So here. Everything that can be unscrewed, bitten off and taken away will be immediately unscrewed, bitten off, carried away and sold. And in the forefront will be the current rank-and-file fighters for justice, so dissatisfied with the current government. At the top, their leaders and inspirers will share financial flows, and below, the rank and file will grab everything to which the hand reaches.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 21 February 2018 20: 22
        0
        They will not stop working, they will burn out, they will be abandoned during the retreat (if they are not lucky). Something will fail. Replacement or replenishment from production will be required, but it will not exist. Everything was bought with finished products, without the transfer of technology and design. Probably the author had this in mind.
    2. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 22: 56
      0
      This Russia, and unpredictable and strong!
  8. EvilLion
    EvilLion 20 February 2018 08: 28
    +5
    And it even becomes somehow so indifferent that all these “achievements” of our aircraft industry in the face of An-148 and “Superjet-100” are in fact the same hodgepodge from around the world.


    The mere mention of these machines, of which one is not Russian at all, clearly demonstrates the absolute incompetence of the author in absolutely everything.

    In 1, there is no need to drag civilian planes here, which are made all over the world from what the Russian Federation is, also supplies something for foreign planes. Titanium, for example, cannot be bought in the world just like that, deposits are only in South Africa and in Russia.

    In 2, it’s practically impossible to push import into the army, and before that they pushed through force, and now all these “Lynxes” only work out the remaining resource.

    However, there is another example, the Su-30СМ, which is nothing but the Su-30МКИ with the replacement of part of the equipment with a Russian one. The joke is that only parts, this aircraft, obviously, were made only in order to eliminate the deficit of fighter jets, since the Su-35 was delivered neither too actively and was actually under testing, in contrast to the long-established Su-30MKI.

    The French did not attempt to somehow interfere with the production of Su-30СМ. It is simply meaningless for them, they will simply lose profits, and the Russians will begin to pose equipment of their own production, the question is worse / better it doesn’t play a role here, you can’t seriously imagine Russia, but you’ll remain without money. It is clear that in the future "drying" will be completely replaced by import, but for now the bourgeoisie will try to make the most of it.

    As for Belarus, it was launched into the Russian market, but from the point of view of reliability, it is an order of magnitude worse than the most vicious NATO members, who are at least predictable, unlike the father of Rygoritch. What is characteristic of our Defense Ministry was already seen in the coffin the same MZKT, the chassis for missiles will KAMAZ do.

    And yes, some office equipment from Japan, which the Defense Ministry certainly also purchases, did not raise any questions even in the USSR, as did deliveries of imported equipment to military factories. It’s just by logic that either they will sell us and make a profit, or they won’t sell, then we will do it ourselves, maybe worse, but we will get it out, but for a company that produces some unique machines that need twenty-two in the world , this is melancholy sadness.

    BTW in the territory of ancient Russia found all 2 sword, possibly locally produced, all other imports from Germany. X)

    Author noob and disgraced.
    1. onix757
      onix757 20 February 2018 10: 10
      +7
      In 1 of these aircraft are used by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. So the problem is voiced correctly.
      In 2, import during purchases is covered by re-gluing nameplates on components. Bourgeois will never be invested in the development, if it is possible to trite the dough for buy-tint-sell operations.
      The French did not attempt to somehow interfere with the production of the Su-30SM. It is simply meaningless for them, they will simply lose profits, and the Russians will begin to put up equipment of their production, the question is worse / better it doesn’t matter

      Mistral example is not enough for you? The problem is not worse / better equipment, but that it simply does not exist and is not expected.
      As for Belarus, it was launched into the Russian market, but from the point of view of reliability, it is an order of magnitude worse than the most vicious NATO members, who are at least predictable, unlike the father of Rygoritch. What is characteristic of our Defense Ministry was already seen in the coffin the same MZKT, the chassis for missiles will KAMAZ do.

      So what prevents replacing domestic counterparts? Oh yes, a bad government is always to blame, and so all 18 years .. In fact, the Russian Federation has no choice, since there is a complete gap in the production of these products, which means they will be taken even with the market closed, even if the market is open. As for KAMAZ, it was never able to master the production of heavy chassis.
      And yes, some office equipment from Japan, which the Defense Ministry certainly also purchases, did not raise any questions even in the USSR, as did deliveries of imported equipment to military factories

      You are mistaken, comrade. In the USSR, military equipment was equipped only with domestic equipment and the Warsaw Pact countries. Of course, imported equipment was purchased at the plants, but only fragmentarily, to which analogues were not produced. Given the fact that the Russian Federation does not actually produce anything and buys everything in a row.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 February 2018 10: 37
        +2
        Quote: onix757
        In the USSR, military equipment was equipped only with domestic equipment and the Warsaw Pact countries.

        The Finnish company "Wartsila" has been working for the Russian Navy since 1947.
        1. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 10: 59
          +2
          She did not complete military equipment for the USSR Armed Forces.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 20 February 2018 12: 30
            +2
            Nevertheless, the Russian Navy was equipped with Finnish rescue tugs, cranes, cable vessels and floating depots. The Finns even built us a large naval arms transport. And a couple of atomic icebreakers.
            1. Alf
              Alf 20 February 2018 22: 11
              +3
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Nevertheless, the Russian Navy was equipped with Finnish rescue tugs, cranes, cable vessels and floating depots. The Finns even built us a large naval arms transport. And a couple of atomic icebreakers.

              Because the domestic shipyards were heavily loaded with the construction of warships. In addition, Finland in those glorious years was a very neutral state, unlike the modern one. Yes, and the Soviet weapons dates were very willing to buy.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 21 February 2018 10: 44
                +2
                Quote: Alf
                In addition, Finland in those glorious years was a very neutral state, unlike the modern one.

                I would even say "sympathetically neutral." The history of the construction of the Mir apparatus is a confirmation of this: Rauma-Repola actually put itself under the blow of the United States, but fulfilled the order.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 00
        +2
        These aircraft are used with spare parts, like any others. There are no others, however, all civilian aircraft in the world are assembled on the basis of the goals of creating a competitive product, and not pushing exclusively domestic details into it.

        Mistral example is not enough for you?


        And what about the Mistral? Comrade, you, like the author, are not catching up with the situation. There are a lot of cases when fully paid weapons were not handed over to the customer at all, and they didn’t even return money, you don’t have to think that they are stupid in the Moscow Region. By the way, these troughs would be very useful now as banal trucks in Syria ... But only imported equipment can appear for objective reasons. And for objective reasons, not supplying it can be extremely unprofitable.

        Do not think that Taiwan will refuse to make processors for us. The situation in the world is such that several suppliers have comparable technologies at once. With the same success, we could not sell Su-35 to China without affecting its defenses and providing additional. ordering his own plants instead of ours.

        For stupid people I chew very clearly: access to the domestic Russian market, even for enterprises from the CIS, is possible only by special. permissions. An exception was made only for Belarus, and even in vain.

        So what prevents replacing domestic counterparts? Oh yes, a bad government is always to blame, and so all 18 years .. In fact, the Russian Federation has no choice, since there is a complete gap in the production of these products, which means they will be taken even with the market closed, even if the market is open. As for KAMAZ, it was never able to master the production of heavy chassis.


        Always one thing interferes - the need for resources. Otherwise, the same Motor Sich, after the separation of the Ukrainian SSR, would not have put a single motor in the Russian Federation for military equipment. I am silent about ship engines. And these problems were solved for years, instead of the plant remaining in the "fraternal republic", a new one was being built, and until then, it was necessary to endure and somehow agree. As, incidentally, with the base in the Crimea, the foreheads would have been glad to drive us out right away, but would have been left without money right away, the process of replacing and breaking ties was creeping in a creeping way. We could not help but buy from them until we built our factory, they could not help but sell to us, since they would die of hunger.

        And the MZKT in the future has only one way out, to move to the Russian Federation, otherwise it will be replaced. It is not necessary to think that KAMAZ will not master cars, money and labor will grind everything.

        You are mistaken, comrade. In the USSR, military equipment was equipped only with domestic equipment and the Warsaw Pact countries.


        I won’t be surprised if there are Finnish-built ships, some minesweepers.

        Of course, imported equipment was purchased at the plants, but only fragmentarily, to which analogues were not produced.


        But it was purchased. According to your logic, it had to be developed and manufactured by ourselves without alternative.

        Given the fact that the Russian Federation does not actually produce anything and buys everything in a row.


        May I ask a simple question. Are you here to buy a loaf of bread, take money for it from the air, or do you earn somewhere?

        What shisha can the Russian Federation buy something abroad if, in your words, it produces nothing? You at least think a little with your head. And yes, there is no need to tell tales about oil and gas; half of Russian export is not necessary for them.
        1. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 10
          +2
          These aircraft are used with spare parts, like any others. There are no others, however, all civilian aircraft in the world are assembled on the basis of the goals of creating a competitive product, and not pushing exclusively domestic details into it

          And in the absence of spare parts in the intelligence ministry with their hands they will start using horse-drawn vehicles) That's right, there are no others, since they hacked domestic swarming by plane for the sake of a hodgepodge from around the world.
          Comrade, you, like the author, are not catching up with the situation. There are a lot of cases when fully paid weapons were not transferred to the customer at all, and they didn’t even return money, in history, you don’t have to think that they are dumber than you

          Whose story is full. Complete only in the history of peripheral states. And in the Moscow Oblast, apparently, they didn’t move from a big mind to cheap trolling from computer games.
          .By the way, these troughs would be very useful right now as commonplace trucks in Syria ... But only imported equipment can appear for objective reasons. And for objective reasons, not supplying it can be extremely unprofitable.

          Oh well, they would be useful! This is a revelation .. But what time and means were killed on these troughs instead of developing your fleet?
        2. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 17
          +1
          Do not think that Taiwan will refuse to make processors for us. The situation in the world is such that several suppliers have comparable technologies at once. With the same success, we could not sell Su-35 to China without affecting its defenses and providing additional. ordering his own plants instead of ours

          Of course, Taiwan will gladly boil components, another thing is that they almost always do not meet the requirements for military products.
        3. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 22
          +2
          For stupid people I chew very clearly: access to the domestic Russian market, even for enterprises from the CIS, is possible only by special. permissions. An exception was made only for Belarus, and even in vain

          And what are the options for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation replacing the products of the Belarusian military-industrial complex? In Israel will buy?)))) There is no alternative to simplicity.
          It’s not worth rushing with such words tyta "stupid", I can comb my hair.
        4. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 27
          +4
          Always one thing interferes - the need for resources. Otherwise, the same Motor Sich, after the separation of the Ukrainian SSR, would not have put a single motor in the Russian Federation for military equipment. I am silent about ship engines. And these problems have been solved for years, instead of the plant remaining in the "fraternal republic", a new one was being built, and until then, I had to endure and somehow agree

          What kind of resource problem is it when the Russian Federation sponsors the US economy for billions of dollars, when irrevocable credits were given to Ukraine, when Sberbank is more dear to Kiev than Crimea, when we increase the pumping of resources in response to increased transit. Lack of resources is a myth to fool the population.
          And yes, what was built there? What was released?)))
        5. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 36
          +1
          And the MZKT in the future has only one way out, to move to the Russian Federation, otherwise it will be replaced. It’s not necessary to think that KAMAZ will not master cars, money and labor will grind everything

          What will replace? An analogue from the DPRK or a horse-drawn cart?
        6. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 40
          +1
          I won’t be surprised if there are Finnish-built ships, some minesweepers

          Do not be surprised at minesweepers and other tugboats.
          But it was purchased. According to your logic, it had to be developed and manufactured by ourselves without alternative.

          Have a competent industry, which, if necessary, is always ready to produce the necessary and complete lack of competence from the Russian Federation purchasing everything in a row. Don't you feel the difference?
        7. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 11: 43
          +2
          What shisha can the Russian Federation buy something abroad if, in your words, it produces nothing? Do you think a little bit with your head

          Shi shi from products of low redistribution, the country lives with raw materials. Look at the statistics and stop watching zombies.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 04
        +1
        import during purchases is covered by re-gluing nameplates on components. Bourgeois will never be invested in the development, if it is possible to trite the dough for buy-tint-sell operations.


        In-1 this is an absolutely unfounded statement, especially since you can’t stick the nameplate on, for example, a radar, or an entire tank / plane.
        In-2. The bourgeois is the owner of the means of production. Any peasant who has a plot of land and a tractor is a small rural bourgeois. Do not use words whose meaning you do not understand.
  9. sergo1914
    sergo1914 20 February 2018 08: 34
    0
    At least there are no tsiska in the pictures. A big step forward. Directly in Langley stopped buying.
  10. Moore
    Moore 20 February 2018 09: 03
    +2
    It would seem a trifle - an alternator. Well, what could be easier? Really in such a "failed"?

    Could, if native MO purchased from a Russian manufacturer.
    It is done simply: in the tender documentation, as a prerequisite, a chip from "your" supplier is put. Well, for example, you need to deliver products in a week. "Own" in the course of the chips, the rest are not. Profit
    So in Rosrezerv, for example, once purchased welding machines from Portugal (Portugal, Karl!). Because the company allegedly gave a guarantee of 5 years of storage, but it wasn’t written for Nashensky.
    Well, or the second option: we went along with the camp kits purchased over the hill at Serdyukov
    1. a
      a 20 February 2018 11: 27
      0
      This has long been practiced all the time.
  11. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 20 February 2018 09: 10
    +1
    And on the basis of what are such drop dead conclusions? In the army there are cases of the purchase of imported high quality equipment? This is problem?

    Analogues of this equipment are not produced at all in Russia, or are they produced, but is it just worse? Statistics where?
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 05
      +1
      Yes, a long time ago the resource "Lynx" ran out, and under the "Mistral" they sold the Ka-52, having welded on this, and the author just realized.
  12. milling machine
    milling machine 20 February 2018 09: 45
    +3
    I will further develop the topic. Let’s take our military production, namely the equipment on which the “modern military” having no analogues is produced. equipment. So, all CNC machining of the shield is entirely America, Japan and Taiwan.
    So imagine that the supply of these machines and the maintenance of existing ones have been sanctioned. Immediately it will be possible to say goodbye to new dryers, armatures, sparks, etc. "analogue" technique.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 20 February 2018 10: 44
      +2
      Well, well, calm, comrade.
      Firstly, the maintenance of such equipment does not require such frequent events, and in fact it is not as difficult as many yell at the "all-pervading" wave. Nothing there, in this technique, is so unique. This is not a technology for the production of processors for spacecraft, simpler and rougher.
      And yet, yes - there is, and a lot of our technology, which has no analogues. And by the way, some products are made just without the use of these mysterious machine tools from Japan, America and others.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 09
      +4
      What will happen? You will be pulled out of the office and sent to vocational schools, or to learn how to service these same machines. Or do you think their bourgeois on the Internet mending? In a civilian way it is still possible.

      Do you have any idea of ​​the plant as a light switch. After 22.06.1941, the Germans also imposed extremely severe sanctions on supporting the equipment delivered to the USSR and the USSR knew very well that this would happen, nevertheless, they were fully purchased in Germany, and then they bombarded the German soldiers with shells drawn on German machines.
  13. Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 20 February 2018 10: 13
    +5
    And a processor manufactured in Taiwan (even if it seems to be a domestic Elbrus)

    if my sclerosis doesn’t change me, the production line has already been made in Russia (or it’s done, but the process is definitely going)
    and an Italian diesel generator,
    Well, the Chinese brothers are always ready to help, and they will certainly help, at least by paying for gas.
    Will not put Canon filler for cartridges - what to print cards?
    - Probably the army grew - these are the only ones in the Russian Federation who use the original consumables from the canon. And so, for a long time, consumables of third-party manufacturers have been successfully used. And their reserves are such that, until they run out, you can manage to set up their production. By the way, Russian printers are already approaching.
    Do not put Lombardini rings, brushes and filters for generators - what to replace?
    Well, brushes for engines are generally even craftsmen in garages themselves master. The main problem is electronics.

    Surveying instruments from the "Watering can".
    I think if you dig well, in the bins of the motherland there is also something.

    It's just that the process goes along the line of least resistance. Where it is now possible to do without costly developments, they cost purchases. The saved money goes to the development of what you can’t do without. Well, Russia is not the USA for you; the military budget is not rubber.
    1. onix757
      onix757 20 February 2018 10: 20
      +3
      It's just that the process goes along the line of least resistance. Where you can do without costly developments now, they cost you purchases

      If you do not invest in development and production, then this is tantamount to putting an end to the hopes of their own analogues.
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 20 February 2018 10: 32
        +2
        Quote: onix757
        It's just that the process goes along the line of least resistance. Where you can do without costly developments now, they cost you purchases

        If you do not invest in development and production, then this is tantamount to putting an end to the hopes of their own analogues.
        "One should walk along Deribasovskaya gradually" (c). First, do what you needed yesterday, then do what you need tomorrow. Because, if you do it all at once, you have to translate the whole country into bread cards.
        1. onix757
          onix757 20 February 2018 10: 53
          +4
          It’s necessary to walk along Deribasovskaya gradually "(c). First, do what you needed yesterday, then do what you need tomorrow.

          Over 18 have figured out that whole industries have been lost. Even the fact that yesterday was relevant, today's industry of the Russian Federation is not a toothache.
          Because, if you do everything at once, you’ll have to translate the whole country into bread cards

          The problem is that nothing is being done. And the current oligarchic power is not capable of developing industry. The population is likely to move over and cards with a similar destruction of industry, the loss of jobs. The economy is primarily the manufacturing industry, and not speculation in the foreign exchange market and the infusion of budget trills into drowning banks.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 43
            0
            Well? And what to do?
            Tell us the Truth!
          2. Egor-dis
            Egor-dis 20 February 2018 16: 29
            +1
            Quote: onix757
            The problem is that nothing is being done. And the current oligarchic power is not capable of developing industry. The population is likely to move over and cards with a similar destruction of industry, the loss of jobs.

            It seems that you are stuck somewhere in the second half of the 90s.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 14
        +1
        I believe that “real-time strategies” should be taught in schools so that people understand a little that there are no resources for everything at once. To learn the upgrade on swords, you must first put the forge, and wait until the upgrade is completed. One trouble, while you set the forge and do the grades, the enemy will come and kill you if you don’t have troops right now.
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 49
          0
          What is this? Hello from computer games?
          "Put" and "wait" - ETOGES is a modern teenager, they are taught that way. Electricity from the outlet. You just need to put the phone on charge, and wait until it charges.
          That's when they have two days left to eat, and the next meal can be obtained, bought, grown in a week - only then it becomes sharply unclear what to put and what to wait for.
          Now we want to “remove” the unfinished, and “put” the new. Nobody will give us just “wait” - the enemy is at the gates.
      3. RAS2002
        RAS2002 20 February 2018 23: 07
        0
        In our country, a huge number of talented young people. They need to be given an assignment with motivation to develop or revive cybernetics projects.
        Few people know (recently heard) about the "Monkey Law of 1967."
        But there were brilliant developments in electronics that were 10 years ahead of the ovs ...
        The whole question is the desire of the "king" ...
  14. BAI
    BAI 20 February 2018 10: 25
    +5
    "Panasonic" and its copies as the only ones who produce protected from moisture and mechanical effects laptops.

    Well, what do the only ones mean? At all specialized exhibitions, domestic ones are always present.

    But why they are not in the army is another question.
    But the fact that there is no element base is really a problem. It is not for nothing that the democrats in power stubbornly ruined and ruined the IEP, and saved AvtoVAZ, which in vain transfers non-renewable resources. All on a team of curators from the United States who know their job.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 02
      +1
      Again "in vain", again everything is bad, and without options.
      Of course, the argument that AvtoVAZ is now producing quite competitive cars in its class will not be heard.
      Everyone knows that this is a "bucket with bolts." even to those who have never ridden them, not like exploiting them.
      1. BAI
        BAI 20 February 2018 13: 51
        0
        Everyone knows that this is a "bucket with bolts." even to those who have never ridden them, not like exploiting them.

        I have a VAZ 2101 since 1972. Still. And if for 1972 it was a great car, then by 1980 it was hopelessly outdated. And her clones 2105 and 2107 were released yet hell knows how old. In the absence of competition, AvtoVAZ did not produce cars, but “carried out the program”, which led to the logical technical level of cars.
    2. Chichikov
      Chichikov 20 February 2018 11: 17
      +1
      Instead of resonance, a bummer - to snatch there, yes and now and run "to the square." And the processors, and systems, and army laptops, like many other things, are. But apparently, not yet in the quantity that is needed.
      The commander of the almost "home" unit, who previously "invited", having looked in which direction the author is oppressing, now also ponders - but is it worth it?
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 20 February 2018 11: 18
      +2
      Well, yes, AvtoVAZ and 70 000 (seventy thousand!) Workers are garbage, it does not need to be saved. You don’t work there, but you need to make a domestic laptop, yes, although it’s not the biggest problem to buy a laptop.
      1. BAI
        BAI 20 February 2018 13: 50
        0
        If a person does not see the difference in significance for the defense (or rather, the existence) of the country’s VAZ car and the guidance unit for the purpose of nuclear munitions, there is nothing to talk about.
        By the way - at IEP enterprises, tens of thousands of people also worked.
    4. Alf
      Alf 20 February 2018 23: 19
      0
      Quote: BAI
      At all specialized exhibitions, domestic ones are always present.

      Quote: BAI
      But the fact that there is no element base,

      And what are these domestic samples in? How is yutafon?
    5. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 February 2018 20: 57
      0
      The entire elemental base is - only the computer in the picture is from 500000 rubles, of course the smartphone for the military is 115000 - they will not be bought in bulk.
  15. igorra
    igorra 20 February 2018 10: 35
    +6
    The question is expiring - what did Putin do for 18 years? In fat years, it was possible to take licenses and open production, but a lot of things could be ... I remember how Zyuganov was knocked down when he demanded to cost the factories, and not to invest in the USA or put them into the Kudrina kolushka-fund. But can a communist say something sensible.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 20 February 2018 11: 04
      +1
      Zyuganov had the opportunity not only to say, but also to do. In 1996.
      What did he say and do then?
      What did he do over the following years, being the chairman of not the smallest faction in the State Duma?
      The question is expiring - what did Putin do for 18 years?

      It’s known for what - he thumped, bought houses, rode with heifers on a yacht. And every year a new iPhone is free.
      Is this exactly what the one who seized power in your place should do?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alf
        Alf 20 February 2018 23: 20
        0
        Quote: Mestny
        What did he do over the following years, being the chairman of not the smallest faction in the State Duma?

        Was this faction decisive in the Duma?
  16. Mestny
    Mestny 20 February 2018 10: 59
    0
    Quote: onix757
    In the USSR, military equipment was equipped only with domestic equipment and the Warsaw Pact countries. Of course, imported equipment was purchased at the plants, but only fragmentarily, to which analogues were not produced.

    Well, where are they, these Warsaw Pact countries?
    I remember some samples of office equipment ... in particular, for example, printers of Bulgarian production.
    Unfortunately, all this, as a rule, was copies of devices manufactured by Western companies with a delay of 5 to 10 years. Well, on an elemental base of about the same level. The truth was collected culturally, in contrast to the domestic. In the USSR, in general, there was a problem with any high-tech equipment - almost all are either simplified copies of outdated or crafts of local craftsmen, again made on the basis of some kind of ancient imported equipment.
    By the way, during the collapse of the USSR, this was also not the last argument of the then "fighters for truth." Those who worked then understood - give us another 10 years, we still do our own. and such that no one did. And already done.
    But - impatient "fighters against the backward USSR", and all down the drain.
    Now the same story again?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Dedall
      Dedall 20 February 2018 22: 40
      +5
      And from 91 to 94 I had our printer called "Electronics" with a thermal head in book format. Bought in the Rostov store "Electronics" in the West. It was very convenient to use on business trips until the heads purchased in advance (which were inexpensive and costless) ended. With that printer, I used a “BK” box the size of a modern keyboard and connected it to the TV in place. I even had a Winchester domestic Rubin plant in Rostov as much as 5 megabytes in volume. Could !!! All this could have developed earlier, but somewhere in the 92nd Gaidar with Chubais appeared and that’s all ...
    3. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 23: 12
      +1
      Dear, you did not find the best page in our history.
      The most progressive development lasted until the arrival of Khrushchev ...
      Read Artemy Zverev.
  17. turbris
    turbris 20 February 2018 11: 18
    0
    Quote: Artek
    Of course, vote for Putin and after 18 years, this issue will not be resolved.

    And I thought, who was the first to remember the elections and now it was drawn up, the topic is indifferent, although the main thing about the sewage system is the election, because they won’t pay for the work, so why not?
  18. Citizen 90
    Citizen 90 20 February 2018 12: 30
    +2
    Sorry, but this
    Quote: EvilLion
    In 2, it’s practically impossible to push import into the army, and before that they pushed through force, and now all these “Lynxes” only work out the remaining resource.

    Quote: EvilLion
    clearly demonstrates absolute incompetence


    The problem is not in the Russian name of the product as a whole, but in the components. And if you dig deeper, even domestic components are often made from imported "semi-finished products" at least at the level of chemistry, as in pharmaceuticals, by the way.

    And about "we can't do everything." Everything - yes, and the Americans do not do everything themselves, but we do not do very much of what we can at our place.

    The government does not want to invest in raising production because it does not provide immediate benefits. And not a single plant or design bureau can start at its facilities to produce all the components for themselves.

    It’s bad that in the concerns, it seems, some managers who do not understand this, or, again, earn money now, and what will happen next is a light bulb.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  19. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 20 February 2018 12: 53
    0
    no country in the world can produce everything that it needs. they will still buy now and then. here the most important thing is not what is bought but where.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. cariperpaint
        cariperpaint 20 February 2018 23: 36
        0
        A small clarification - now it’s a completely different time and the technologies have become so complicated that now it is impossible in principle. even those who have a printing press buy everything they can and do not create themselves. it's time to realize this already. there are critical points for which we simply must do it ourselves, but most of them say products are easier to buy than create. Is it worth spending yards of money on a wheel?
      2. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 20 February 2018 23: 42
        0
        Quote: Akexandre Fedorovski
        Only in Stalin's time, “to the wall” for a similar state of affairs in the “defense industry” would be put to the wall

        What did not stop during World War II from buying tanks and planes from the States. And before that, lure the German tankers into specialized organized tank schools in order to get European armored vehicles from them for free. In fact, during the time of Stalin, they bought a lot of things abroad, even such that the gentlemen did not try to sell from abroad. And no one disdained, did not complex. Because they understood that it was NECESSARY, right now, yesterday, but they had no time to take anywhere and do it.
        1. Alf
          Alf 21 February 2018 22: 18
          0
          Quote: Egor-dis
          What did not stop during World War II from buying tanks and planes from the States.

          Do not confuse horseradish with your finger. Extra weapons are never superfluous.
          Quote: Egor-dis
          In fact, during the time of Stalin, they bought a lot of things abroad,

          Right. They bought, studied and based on what they learned did their own thing. But we didn’t pursue a policy. We’ll buy everything and therefore we don’t have to develop our own.
          1. Egor-dis
            Egor-dis 5 March 2018 09: 06
            0
            Quote: Alf
            Right. They bought, studied and based on what they learned did their own thing. But we didn’t pursue a policy. We’ll buy everything and therefore we don’t need to develop our own.
            And who said that the Russian military-industrial complex and the Moscow region refuse to develop their own? There is a proverb, "They don’t show half the work." The fact that import substitution is not carried out completely does not mean that it is not carried out at all. And many saw "half the work" and are in a panic.
    2. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 23: 23
      +2
      You are deeply mistaken!
      The USSR independently and successfully developed, before the war and after. But before the arrival of Khrushchev.
      Read Evgeny Spitsyna ...
      Or look - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQE7NMd5kY
      1. cariperpaint
        cariperpaint 20 February 2018 23: 44
        0
        and who argues ... but nevertheless bought a bunch of everything in the world.
  20. sxfRipper
    sxfRipper 20 February 2018 13: 13
    0
    Panorama (GIS Map) has its own topographers. Although it is written in bourgeois software.
  21. Radikal
    Radikal 20 February 2018 13: 27
    0
    Quote: Mestny
    That is, the incoherent set of words of the previous speaker is not surprising?
    The main barrel organ is "lost" to unwind?

    good drinks
  22. Radikal
    Radikal 20 February 2018 13: 30
    0
    Quote: Chichikov
    Instead of resonance, a bummer - to snatch there, yes and now and run "to the square." And the processors, and systems, and army laptops, like many other things, are. But apparently, not yet in the quantity that is needed.
    The commander of the almost "home" unit, who previously "invited", having looked in which direction the author is oppressing, now also ponders - but is it worth it?

    And the other commander (not the "home" part), who will fight with this "iron" what will he think about ?! sad PS Here is such a "Chichikov" in Russia now expanse - at all levels! wassat
  23. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 20 February 2018 19: 53
    +2
    Roman, you showed what else is in our army. Regarding the same diesel generators, Tula produces excellent ones. They already put on our equipment. In the compartment there is less noise from it than from the HLF. I can give many more examples, but ... Not everything can and should be told.
    1. Akexandre Fedorovski
      Akexandre Fedorovski 20 February 2018 20: 32
      0
      Yes, only on your diesel generators - the kickbacks are not the same ...
    2. gladcu2
      gladcu2 20 February 2018 21: 50
      0
      Well, it turns out there is a diesel generator. And then I almost agreed on the production of a new diesel generator.

      Something like this.
  24. gladcu2
    gladcu2 20 February 2018 19: 54
    0
    How is socialism different for the better from capitalism?

    Free access to information.

    Why do I need a free exchange of data?
    Reply.
    To engage the initiative of those interested.

    Do you need a diesel generator?

    Open the website. Diesel generator.

    Paints the compound. For example, frame, gas tank, wiring, assembly, crankcase, piston.
    Conditional price.
    And they went to collect and bind information.

    Six months and you will have a diesel engine. Business then ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 20 February 2018 21: 48
        0
        Well, not so fatal.

        The danger is not from the oligarchs. Danger from artificial intelligence.
        This dirty trick will be worse. Competition with her is dangerous. It will be difficult or impossible to agree with him. Man does not need AI.
  25. The comment was deleted.
    1. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 23: 26
      0
      Elections are an illusion. Alas and ah!
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fNBAVRdsZU4
      Watch the video…
  26. Eflintuk
    Eflintuk 20 February 2018 21: 13
    +1
    The enemy knows better where to beat us ... We can add to the old Soviet developments endlessly the pluses and the letters M, by cramming into them a couple of stolen imported microcircuits, and rejoice for the URA patriots screaming with delight. We are simply cut off from any technology (not even the most modern), we, with our import-distortion, are not catching up with anyone, and we are lagging behind more and more. And the end under the current government is one - at the next technological leap to stay with silicon guns against machine guns. But while nuclear weapons are a deterrent, the authorities still have time to plunder my homeland.
  27. wachmann
    wachmann 20 February 2018 22: 15
    +2
    well, the technique of the probable enemy also needs to be studied, and spare parts must be obtained in battle, presumably bully
    and, seriously, until there is a state plan and a bunch of troubled firms will deal with the supply of troops, everything will remain (
  28. dogens
    dogens 20 February 2018 22: 31
    0
    I am not talking about imported components that are not a concern. For example, Belarusian sights. “Pleated”, “Pine-U”, PKP-T, “Sozh-M”, “Spring-K”. Their presence on Russian equipment from BMP-3 to BMPT Terminator and tanks (all) do not seem to be a weak spot
    in vain. I have long been upset by the components of pine-u. There used to be French optics. As it is not clear now. It was useful to search and found nothing.
  29. Lexus
    Lexus 20 February 2018 22: 34
    +2
    Roman, BRAVO! good
    A very relevant and topical topic was raised in the article.
    Today, the situation from Soviet self-sufficiency has returned to the time of Leskov's “Lefty”, so the “bonnet” of “urya-patriots” have already flown into you, whom Iraq’s lessons in “Desert Storm” and subsequent events, unfortunately, did not teach.
    Shitty than that, when key derivatives (microprocessors, chips, drives, etc.) released by the most probable enemy or a country dependent on him can be used on military equipment and armaments, there may be control units and “products” as a whole. Regrettably, both have a place to be in our defense industry. Many questions with, alas, a small number of intelligible and encouraging answers.
    And all to one. If in the USSR the path to success was based on actual planning, overgrown with promising developments, something was corrected in fact, and only a small part of what was happening was “on occasion”, now everything is exactly the opposite: the lion's share of events is “on occasion”, let and with no real reason for joy (but “with fireworks”), “biting your elbows” in fact, “zero point-ten hells” of promising developments and “diplomas of diploma”, not mandatory, instead of critical planning in principle.
    A country that exists according to the modern Russian scenario (without a conceptual “skeleton” independent of circumstances and reliance on its own production) is doomed to defeat and collapse, and its citizens - to slavery and extermination.
    The hard work of a patriotic journalist consists in “removing pink glasses” from a “herd of rams going to the abyss”. Write, and we will support you. Together - we are force!
    Thanks again for the article! hi
    1. RAS2002
      RAS2002 20 February 2018 23: 28
      +1
      Totally agree!
  30. Alexander Nezgovorov
    Alexander Nezgovorov 20 February 2018 22: 37
    +2
    in short, we have no secrets from NATO for a long time. us noodles on the ears ....
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 21 February 2018 13: 26
    0
    Egor Timurovich, (the icon of the liberals in the Russian pr-ve) said in the early 90s: “Why do we need aircraft? We will fly on Boeings!”
    With that we live.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 February 2018 21: 03
      0
      And they would still fly, on the multi-modernized junk Tu 154.
  33. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 21 February 2018 14: 19
    0
    Quote: cariperpaint
    no country in the world can produce everything that it needs.

    Here Gaidar said: "I agreed with Boeing that he will provide us with any number of any type of aircraft." But in the USA, for some reason, no one agrees with Tu and IL about the same thing?
    Well stupid-eee !!! ©
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 February 2018 21: 17
      0
      Alas, they couldn’t imagine competitors to foreign aircraft at that time, due to outdated production and the lack of a well-developed foreign service network for airliners - this is the answer to why Boeing and Airbus produce and sell several hundred planes a year, and Russia is tens of forces.
  34. Sfurei
    Sfurei 21 February 2018 22: 57
    +2
    I ask the author to be more precise in the information on the technique ... The protected laptops of the Getac brand in the picture are just Chinese and more reliable than Panasonic. I’m telling you as a specialist in this technique (more than 10 years of experience working with such products). And on components I will say this. After the sanctions in 2014, problems arose mainly in aerospace engineering (mainly elemental base). But even these irreplaceable products are still being transported to us in the Russian Federation under other order numbers or have already begun to be made in China. And most of the possible bans will be replaced by equipment from China. The exclusive remained in very highly specialized products which are used in the army at 10-100 per year.
  35. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 22 February 2018 01: 46
    0
    [quote = businessv] More colonial dispossession, with their apartments
    In the East, obviously not colonels were worth the loot. So what? Pay and severance pay after paying a fine (ridiculous compared to the amount of cut) is waiting to restore health.
  36. kig
    kig 22 February 2018 05: 34
    0
    Author, you still forgot about German engines on Russian frigates. Now they seem to have found a substitute ... in China.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 February 2018 21: 20
      0
      Nothing in China was found.
  37. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 23 February 2018 11: 13
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    could not imagine then

    Most likely they didn’t “fail”, but did not give the opportunity to their own short-sighted leaders - the future “effective managers”.
  38. would
    would 23 February 2018 17: 35
    0
    Everything is absolutely true, but in order to simply import substitute it is necessary to create not even enterprises, but entire industries in the country from scratch. To put it mildly, for a long time, very expensive, that is, with the current budget it is impossible. About who this will create a separate conversation.

    And it’s not enough just to replace import. It is clear that they will use the military that they will use (or will buy for their money), but for mass demand, import-substituted products should be at the level of import, that is, they should cost no more and be no worse. And it is desirable to exceed and cost less, you can not at the same time. And with this we have a problem on all fronts.
    Not so long ago I talked with workers at an enterprise where they assemble wheeled cranes, take our Kamaz and put on it an imported crane installation from the PRC. According to engineers and other employees of the enterprise, our crane installations did not stand next to the Chinese one either. And now I heard about a bunch of industries, if there is a domestic analogue, then it is almost always worse and therefore they are not used.
  39. Fox
    Fox 24 February 2018 09: 22
    0
    it’s just interesting, did VAZ kick this trend? what did Renault look like cars? didn’t put the glove box lid on optionally, or NORMAL motors (by the way, they puffed on their own, put on a Renault, but turned out to be hand-wise, opposite to VAZ specialists)? but they fuck no one needs. no way. at all.
    Roman, study the topic.
    1. shahor
      shahor 25 February 2018 19: 31
      0
      In my opinion, Academician Fedosov answered his question about import substitution once and for all in his memoirs * 50 years in aviation. Notes of the academician. * For those who don’t know, Boris Fedosov, Hero of Socialist Labor, Lenin Prize Laureate, etc., headed the NIIGAS Institute for many years, which developed and tested all of the USSR’s aviation weapons systems.
      In his book, written back in the early 2000s, he talked about the fact that by that time technologies had become so complex that not a single state in the world, even the most developed and richest, could have a set of all critical technologies. Hence the new international division of labor in the development of new technologies. Each more or less serious state seeks to find its niche here and gain a foothold in the new market. Russia's path to isolation and import substitution is a dead end. Spending billions on copying (bad) of already created samples, we get an outdated product by the beginning of production. we doom ourselves to poverty and living on the sidelines of progress.