India is interested in F-35A

India is considering an F-35 fighter as a candidate to replenish its air force. According to the portal business-standard.com, the Indian military command invited representatives of the company Lockheed Martin to hold a briefing on the capabilities of the latest fighters.

According to unofficial information, the Indian Air Force is considering the acquisition of 126 new fighters, which will replace the obsolete MiG-27 and MiG-29. The Indian army is interested in the modification of the F-35A, which is the only one of the three F-35 equipped with a built-in aviation the gun.

If this information is confirmed, then the project Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), which India is developing together with Russia on the basis of the Su-57, will be a big question. Recall that back in October last year, the Indian Air Force commanders reported that the FGFA program did not meet their requirements, and within its framework it would not be possible to create a plane that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter. Therefore, the Indian Air Force "does not seek to continue the FGFA program."

In recent years, India has repeatedly complained about Russian aircraft, in particular, the quality of deck fighters MiG-29K has been criticized. Therefore, India is gradually moving to the purchase of Western aircraft. For example, in 2016, a contract was signed for the purchase of French Rafale fighter jets, and last year the Soviet anti-submarine Tu-142M “Albatross” aircraft were replaced by the American Boeing P-8A Poseidon, reports "Warspot".

Comments

[Muvka]

The Americans will not sell them the F-35 with the organization of production and with the transfer of technology. They are trying to scare us, that's all. And if without technology transfer and production organization, then the FGFA will be much cheaper for the Indians than the F-35. The only thing is not clear what the timing.

[dorz]

Quote: Muvka

The Americans will not sell them the F-35 with the organization of production and with the transfer of technology. They are trying to scare us, that's all. And if without technology transfer and production organization, then the FGFA will be much cheaper for the Indians than the F-35. The only thing is not clear what the timing.

Indians will scare Pakistan and China.

[NEXUS]

Quote: dorz

Indians will scare Pakistan and China.

Apparently, the Indians did not agree with us on the creation of the SU-57 spark with the transfer of production and technology to them ... but China does not wait, nor does Pakistan. Apparently, interest in the F-35 is a necessary measure.

[yehat]

Indians want the full transfer of ALL technologies, participating in the project by a quarter,
Including production of engines of 2 generations.
This is kind of impudence, and therefore they cannot agree.

[NEXUS]

Quote: yehat

This is kind of impudence, and therefore they cannot agree.

Gooseberries jam them all over, not technology.

[the most important]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: yehat

This is kind of impudence, and therefore they cannot agree.

Gooseberries jam them all over, not technology.

And what do you think, the Su-35 is a worthy opponent of the F-35 ??? And in five years, taking into account development and modernization ?? And the transfer of technology .. here, if you transfer BMW technologies to the VAZ, then all the same for another 20 years, Lada will go off the assembly line.

[NEXUS]

Quote: the most important

And what do you think, the Su-35 is a worthy opponent of the F-35 ???

F-35 is not a priori a rival to a fighter in gaining air supremacy. This is like asking, and is the SU-34 a worthy rival of the SU-57? Stealth is not a panacea for the word at all.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

F-35 a priori not a rival to a fighter in gaining air supremacy

depending on the situation. In DRB very much.

Quote: NEXUS

Stealth is not a panacea for the word at all.

What are we doing stealth ourselves? Both airplanes and ships. and even tanks? Stealth gives an advantage. In addition, now the Yankees on this indicator do not go in cycles d eoth, lheubv. Are you still dreaming about the F-117 and what? But I can name one chip, in which they have succeeded very much. Or guess yourself? One of the most important indicators of the F-35/22 you still do not see. Our military either doesn’t even get it, or are they preparing for the last war again

[Hammerlock]

no need to compare the root with the finger
and yes, you are not the most important (be modest)

[the most important]

Quote: Hammerlock

you are not the most important (be modest)

1. I never allow myself to poke someone when talking ... parenting is ...
2. I do not obey anyone !!! I have no bosses !!!! From the word at all. That is why I am the "most important" !!!!
3. Modesty is my main character trait. Here sometimes I want to do something immodest, but I can’t, modesty doesn’t allow ...

[yehat]

the f-35 concept is a product of a sick imagination.
these planes should be the specialized peak of the pyramid of aviation forces, and they make the basis. Drones are not yet capable of full interaction with aircraft.
therefore, the f-35 is not at all an adversary of the su-35. These are different planes for different purposes.
as for technology transfer, a network of suppliers determines the freedom of the plant, and not he.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: NEXUS

Apparently, the Indians did not agree with us on the creation of the SU-57 spark with the transfer of production and technology to them.

Hindus take every opportunity to draw out information on new weapons systems. Preferably for free. Blackmail partners at the same time. We are scared by the F-35 contract, the Americans by the Su-57 contract.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

Blackmail partners at the same time. We are scared by the F-35 contract, the Americans by the Su-57 contract.

That's it. As a result, they generally run the risk of being left with nothing. For they themselves are unable to create something worthy. An American needs India only for one reason (from strength - for two reasons) - to weaken influence in the region of Russia and China. Russia - economically (many contracts are tied to the Indians, although they are good ... true, they pay regularly), China - politically. The Hindus, however, seemed to believe in "friendship forever with an overseas comrade," as if they had found a big brother. Throw them the Yankees .. not immediately, but very seriously. Although, if we take into account the truly cosmic scale of corruption in India, they can push the F-35 to them. And without any technology transfer. How the French pushed them "Rafali" (no technology and at a fabulous price).

[Don]

How much criticism was expressed about f35, just megatons of feces .. However, in fact, all countries willingly take it, even those who did not participate in the project. And how much is contracted by our unpaid analogue in the world of Su-57? Hindus are far from fools to invest in a good car, which will be ready in ten years, when even tomorrow you can order a good, but ready plane. After 10 years, they will still order the upgraded F-35.

[Muvka]

No one willingly takes it. There is simply no choice.

[figwam]

Don

Yes, how ready he is, there are still a lot of shortcomings and he can’t reach the 5th generation, there is no supersonic without afterburner. And the Indians are simply blackmailing us and that’s it.

[poquello]

Quote: figvam

Don

Yes, how ready he is, there are still a lot of shortcomings and he can’t reach the 5th generation, there is no supersonic without afterburner. And the Indians are simply blackmailing us and that’s it.

what time he will show, one thing is certain - very expensive, and whether dignity will be present for this shortcoming is still unknown

[Don]

Do you know how much F-35A is worth? I will answer, at the level of 4 + aircraft.

[Lock36]

Yeah, the other day, the US Defense Ministry budget for 2018 was discussed - ask how much it costs.

[yehat]

5th generation does not rest against the engine operation mode.
This is an artificial stretch of definition.
for example, the Swedes made their own self so comfortable that, in fact, being a generation lower, it almost equaled its counterparts.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: yehat

5th generation does not rest against the engine operation mode.

but what rests? into the mythical stealth?
according to Russian requirements for the 5th generation F-35 maximum 4+.

[yehat]

we have no requirements for network-centric coordination in the requirements, and this is the main feature of the f-35.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: yehat

we have no requirements for network-centric coordination in the requirements, and this is the main feature of the f-35.

right here:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%
D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C_%
D0%BF%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D0%BE%
D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F
third point:
the presence of a circular information system;
Do you somehow interpret this requirement in a special way? If you doubt that this is about inclusion in a network-centric system, then there are 7 more points for automating the work of a pilot in a network-centric system:
increased combat autonomy due to the installation of a tactical situation indicator in the cockpit of a single-seat aircraft with the ability to mix information (that is, simultaneously output and overlap “images” from various sensors on a single scale), as well as use telecode information exchange systems with external sources;

[yehat]

it is not that. need a completely different, deeper requirement
as well as to the combat control equipment, there are also dubious requirements.
in our country there are control systems for air defense, on the battlefield, ships, whatever, but all of them themselves, almost do not change the data.
But this problem was already beginning to be solved 35 years ago. The Americans also solved it and have already partially solved it, but we have an imitation of a solution, no more.

[Sanichsan]

if you do not mind then I will respond to your previous post. hence the number of investments is limited.

Quote: yehat

it is not that.

Well, how wrong? the very thing. or do you see the possibility of informational integration of combat space only in the American version? in this case, I have bad news for you. their concept showed complete unsuitability.
the first exercises with the use of a single coordination center ended in complete failure and loss of the obviously weaker enemy (the Millennium Challenge exercises).
how does this system work now? essentially nothing. already 10 years in any way. it has not shown itself in any conflict and I have the impression that this system is simply not used in view of its uselessness.
and what in Russia?
an analogue is created. not a copy of the fact that it does not work in the United States but an analogue. the emphasis is on a single information space at the tactical level. to say at the forefront.

Quote: yehat

in our country there are control systems for air defense, on the battlefield, ships, whatever, but all of them themselves, almost do not change the data.

each report on the actions of the airborne forces in Syria took place in the interiors of the new MO command center. or don't you even watch the news in the morning for tea? fundamentally?
so there is the same
but I very much doubt that the details of this project will be widely advertised in the press. while it is only known that all new weapons are being designed with the expectation of inclusion in a single information space.

[Don]

Quote: Muvka

No one willingly takes it. There is simply no choice.

There is always a choice. For example, the same F-15, an analogue of our hyped Su-35 generation 4 ++. But for some reason, not only Americans, but also allies do not take it. And our MO, on the contrary, will continue to purchase Su-35 for the new GPV until 2028, even when the Su-57 is in the series. And the Indian market for Russia, I believe, will be lost. After the delivery of C-400, more major contracts are not expected in the near future.

[poquello]

Quote: Donskoy

F-15, an analogue of our advertised Su-35

Oh well

[svp67]

Quote: Donskoy

For example, the same F-15, an analogue of our hyped-up Su-35 generation 4 ++

Well, let's start with the fact that the F-15 is an analogue of the Su-27 ... And, accordingly, its modifications are analogous to the modifications of the su-27 ...

[Don]

Quote: svp67

Well, let's start with the fact that the F-15 is an analogue of the Su-27 ... And, accordingly, its modifications are analogous to the modifications of the su-27 ...

Let's start with the fact that the Americans do not change the numbering, which is what we constantly sin. For example, the Su-35 is the latest upgrade to the Su-27. T-90 is a renamed T-72M, etc. The latest F-15E modification surpasses our Su-35 in some respects. Do not rush in empty words, try to compare the performance characteristics, for example, radars and avionics.

[svp67]

Quote: Donskoy

Do not rush in empty words, try to compare the performance characteristics, for example, radars and avionics.

To do this, it is necessary that you bring your idea CLEAR.
If you literally read your mind, then I’ll immediately say that this is BAD, as the Su-35 is clearly better than the F-15, but you mentioned its modification of the F-15E and you need to understand it ...

[figwam]

Don

How can these aircraft be compared! The F-15E is a fighter-bomber, which has always been used as a strike aircraft and it has never been fought with any fighters, and neither the pilots nor the aircraft are imprisoned for this, and the SU-35 is a clean fighter for which any F-15 modification is not a problem.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: figvam

How can these aircraft be compared! F-15E is a fighter-bomber

F-15 was born a pure fighter for gaining superiority in the sky, like the Su-27. Over time, the Su and Orlov family learned a lot, including work on the ground. Not one modification has been created. In fact, both the one and the other aircraft (F-15 latest versions and Su-30/35) are fighter bombers. Aircraft of the same class. What not to compare?

[Muvka]

Quote: Donskoy

Quote: svp67

Well, let's start with the fact that the F-15 is an analogue of the Su-27 ... And, accordingly, its modifications are analogous to the modifications of the su-27 ...

Let's start with the fact that the Americans do not change the numbering, which is what we constantly sin. For example, the Su-35 is the latest upgrade to the Su-27. T-90 is a renamed T-72M, etc. The latest F-15E modification surpasses our Su-35 in some respects. Do not rush in empty words, try to compare the performance characteristics, for example, radars and avionics.

The latest modification of the Su27 is the Su-27SM3. And the Su-35 is another plane.

[Don]

Quote: Muvka

And the Su-35 is a different plane.

How is it fundamentally different from Su-27 - Su-35 and F-15A from F-15E?

[svp67]

Quote: Muvka

And the Su-35 is a different plane.

So the new modifications of the F-15, in fact, in fact, other cars ...

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Donskoy

The Indian market for Russia, I believe, will be lost.

Russia will not lose the Indian market in the coming decades. And they will constantly nightmare us, they have such karma.

[yehat]

f-15 is not taken, because several hundred have been serving for a long time. They are outdated and need replacement.

[a.sirin]

In 10 years there will be no, approximately by 30-32

[sabakina]

Quote: Donskoy

How much criticism was expressed about f35, just megatons of feces .. However, in fact, all countries willingly take it, even those who did not participate in the project.

Remember how scared the whole world, swine flu, bird flu, some other kind of infection was ... there were deaths. Pharmacists screaming - buy a vaccine or die. And where is all this pandemic epidemic? Conspiracy of pharmacists and no more. So here, take it or lose.

[Don]

Regarding the Russian threat, I agree, the allies are getting divorced. But Russia, on the contrary, always collapsed from the inside, and from the outside they could not take it. This is still relevant today, I believe, and the authorities are doing everything to ensure this is confirmed once again.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: sabakina

So here, take it or lose.

Nonsense. All the more serious. The USA still promises them assistance in building (at least with technology and advice) in the construction of an aircraft carrier. Not so simple..

[vlad66]

Quote: Donskoy

How much criticism was expressed about f35, just megatons of feces .. However, in fact, all countries willingly take it, even those who did not participate in the project. And how much is contracted by our unpaid analogue in the world of Su-57? Hindus are far from fools to invest in a good car, which will be ready in ten years, when even tomorrow you can order a good, but ready plane. After 10 years, they will still order the upgraded F-35.

Oh well, you are negotiators, you are ready to give India

complete transfer of ALL technologies, participating in the project by a quarter, including the production of engines of 2 generations.

Ready? And why then this pathos

Quote: Donskoy

not having analogues in the world of Su-57

[Locksmith]

Quote: Donskoy

However, in fact, all countries willingly take it

They have already invested bucks = these countries, immeasurably, if you want, if you want, you justify the investments, you have set up factories for its production, so what if it was unsuccessful, it doesn’t care, it’s paid. Therefore, they will sell to all close ones, even not thinking about purchases, the Indians here as an indicator

[NEXUS]

Quote: Donskoy

And how much is contracted by our unparalleled analogue in the Su-57 world?

And how many F-22 mattresses were contracted for export?

Quote: Donskoy

Hindus are far from fools to invest in a good car that will be ready in ten years,

Who will give them that technology? Or do you think that we are dumber than mattresses and will squander secret advanced technologies?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

And how many F-22 mattresses were contracted for export?

F-22 never not planned for export, it was made exclusively for myself. The Japanese, for example, wanted to buy a Raptor, but they were categorically refused. That is why Japan began to develop its 5th generation aircraft project. Export is F-35

Quote: NEXUS

Who will give them that technology?

Russia will give. If anything, FGFA is a joint project.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

Russia will give. If anything, FGFA is a joint project.

Go to sleep...

[Grigory_45]

Don't you understand what FGFA is doing for India with localization of production on HAL? How will they produce it without technology? Even an ax, not having metal processing technologies, cannot be done. You’re carrying complete bum. By the way, what did the Indians do in the project? Which aircraft systems is the Indian party responsible for?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Donskoy

Hindus are far from fools

they are fools. If they did not periodically arrange their traditional dances with tambourines, their FGFA would have long flown

[Town Hall]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Donskoy

Hindus are far from fools

they are fools. If they did not periodically arrange their traditional dances with tambourines, their FGFA would have long flown

That is, the Indians' fault is that the plane is still without engines, and without AFAR, and without serial weapons and other things? ... the tentacles of Indian pests far penetrated however ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Town Hall

That is the fault of the Indians

exactly. And, of course, the fault of the "effective" managers, who built the work with the Indian side so inefficiently. Project (FGFA) India is developing together with Russia on the basis of the Su-57. The Indians only criticize by inserting sticks into the wheels, doing nothing more, while the Russian Su-57 flies, has engines, weapons, radar and more. He completed the first stage of state testing. So that..

[Town Hall]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Town Hall

That is the fault of the Indians

exactly. And, of course, the fault of the "effective" managers, who built the work with the Indian side so inefficiently. Project (FGFA) India is developing together with Russia on the basis of the Su-57. The Indians only criticize by inserting sticks into the wheels, doing nothing more, while the Russian Su-57 flies, has engines, weapons, radar and more. He completed the first stage of state testing. So that..

Wow. What kind of news? ... The Su-57 completed state tests, it has a 5th generation serial engine, a serial AFAR, a serial weapon put to it and so on?))) ... and the Indians do not know ...


Or everything that is for (on) the Su-57 is modestly bashfully called ... the "first stage" ... and we are talking about the indistinct year after year, we postpone the adoption of these unclaimed experimental samples into service with a "small series" of 10 pieces. ..with firm promises to bring the year to 2030 to mind, and even then ...


Are the Indians to blame for this all?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Town Hall

Or everything that is for (on) the Su-57 is modestly bashfully called ... the "first stage" ..

You can not read further ... the only question is, do you have a reference or is mom and dad forced to do homework every day?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Town Hall

and the Indians do not know ...

Indians in the know. But they are apparently satisfied with dances and dances, and then complain about the "bad Russians"
All that is written below is bullshit. Su-57 is our plane, FGFA is Indian. You talentedly managed to mix everything together. Is it always like this with you, or only today are masterpieces obtained?

[Town Hall]

Quote: Gregory_45

Su-57 is our plane, FGFA is Indian.

You have certain logical contradictions ... FGFA- should be built on the basis of the su-57. The main difference was to be double. And the engines, radars and more, from the su-57.


I’m embarrassed to ask ... where will the engines come to fgfa if they are unprepared even for the su-57? .... and what is the fault of the Indians that Russia is calving with these engines for the eleventh year and will never finish

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Town Hall

FGFA- should be built on the basis of the su-57

and where is he, double? At least a glider? no? And who is to blame? And, probably engines prevented to make it? The glider needs to be tested for a resource, and so on - this procedure generally does without engines. On the ground. You can fly while on the AL-41, as we flew. How is it that this circumstance did not stop us from conducting flight tests? Probably just the one who wants to - he does, and who does not - chases the bald

Quote: Town Hall

I’m embarrassed to ask ... where do the fgfa engines come from if they are unprepared even for the su-57? .... and

Based on your logic, we should not have tested the Su-57 until we brought the engine to the second stage? Brilliant))

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

they are fools. If they did not periodically arrange their traditional dances with tambourines, their FGFA would have long flown

Yes, yes ... everything is straight from the Moscow Region, and their hair runs straight back to transfer the technology according to SU-57.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

Yes, yes ... everything is straight from the Moscow Region, and their hair runs straight back to transfer the technology according to SU-57.

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Gregory_45
they are fools. If they did not periodically arrange their traditional dances with tambourines, their FGFA would have long flown

what did you want to say? Only in Russian intelligible

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

what did you want to say? Only in Russian intelligible

go to sleep, baby! And do not eat raw tomatoes at night.

[Grigory_45]

Judging by what you write, tomatoes are not only in your mouth, but also cucumbers in other places. As a chopik.
In general, the expected flood of a little boy. I want to grunt, but not.

In essence the question. When the project is joint, or localization of production is expected on the customer’s premises, then technology transfer is mandatory. Not always in full (it depends on the capabilities of the requiring party), but it always is. This is called partial technology transfer. Do not disgrace more, do not write nonsense. Impress a schoolboy

[Chestnut]

The century of Soviet weapons is drawing to a close; obviously, Russia will not be able to give the world a new word in the next decade, but only Soviet models with slightly improved characteristics.
Old tanks and old helicopters, archaisms of 70-80 years, this is no longer interesting to anyone.
Of course, this Soviet trash will be purchased in the Russian army, but the world will pass by.
Su57, as can be seen in terms of time, is too complicated for Russian enterprises, and does not have some of the capabilities that the f35 has, for example, vertical take-off, which significantly reduces tactical variations.

[poquello]

Quote: Chestnut

The age of Soviet weapons is drawing to a close

clown, during this time I didn’t see anything superior to Russian at the bourgeoisie, but the end of the line is not observed for our weapons, there has been and will be

[sabakina]

Quote: poquello

clown, during this time I didn’t see anything superior to the Russian besides the planning bomb,

In fact, a clown, it is strange that his name is not Andrew ....

[poquello]

Quote: sabakina

Quote: poquello

clown, during this time I didn’t see anything superior to the Russian besides the planning bomb,

In fact, a clown, it is strange that his name is not Andrew ....

where did they come from like ants for sugar, and most importantly, everything was slogans, slogans, no, they would have told how the tanks modernized by the Turks behave on TVD, well, if they learned the rules, then they also learned

[yehat]

what nonsense ???
vertical - a rarity., and highly castrated. Moreover, the T50 was originally created as a heavy fighter.
As for the complexity of manufacturing - also nonsense. The only difficulty is that it is difficult for industry to survive in our country.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: yehat

vertical - a rarity., and highly castrated

VTOL, of course, has characteristics worse than a "normal" aircraft. But the F-35B is now - the only vertical flight in the world. I.e there is no alternative to her today. And there were many UDCs built up. The demand for the aircraft will definitely be

[Kasym]

Allow me to disagree.
"Old tanks and old helicopters, archaisms of 70-80." Abrams, Leopards, Bradley, Apaches, etc. also developed in 70-80g. - why not archaisms then ?! And Ka-52 and BTT on the platform of Almaty, Kurganets - new developments. I am generally silent about missile weapons - Yars, Sarmat, Mace, X-101, Caliber, Zircon, Willow, S-400, Shell, etc. .. And the electronic warfare systems? Mercury, Moscow, Krasukha, Murmansk, Vitebsk, etc. - NATO generals acknowledge the lag in this area. New small arms and equipment - while the Americans are running with the M-16 and its modernized models.
Vertical takeoff reduces the performance characteristics of the fighter - this is understandable, for example, traction.
In the West, in general, they believe that there has been a lag in military development. In addition to the F-22 and F-35, nothing particularly new is visible. Moreover, the F-22 is no longer being produced - why it was discontinued, ask a question. You can also name something in the Navy. But the new ones grew. The nuclear submarines do not give peace to the NATO.
I agree only that there is a lag in electronics.

[yehat]

you underestimate our backlog. it gradually accumulates in detail.
the achievements of the USSR are being exhausted, and there is VERY little new.

[Vlad.by]

Quote: Chestnut

The century of Soviet weapons is drawing to a close; obviously, Russia will not be able to give the world a new word in the next decade, but only Soviet models with slightly improved characteristics.
Old tanks and old helicopters, archaisms of 70-80 years, this is no longer interesting to anyone.
Of course, this Soviet trash will be purchased in the Russian army, but the world will pass by.
Su57, as can be seen in terms of time, is too complicated for Russian enterprises, and does not have some of the capabilities that the f35 has, for example, vertical take-off, which significantly reduces tactical variations.

This vertical take-off reduces tactical variation.
And do not worry about the novelty.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Chestnut

The century of Soviet weapons is coming to an end, obviously Russia will not be able to give the world a new word

It’s always said so, when you need to vparit something like zumwalt, "it doesn’t have .... ,promotes .. ., exactly until the time of application, and further, as always = pumpkin.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Muvka

... Americans will not sell them the F-35 with the organization of production and with the transfer of technology. They are trying to scare us, that's all ...

Do not take everything so close to your heart. It is useless to frighten anyone on the arms market, sparrows are all shot.
Our businessmen from the military-industrial complex learned by heart the Indian manner of doing business.

... the Indian military command has invited Lockheed Martin representatives to hold a briefing ...

This is a prelude to Indian dances. Merinov will be soaked with presentations and briefings

[svp67]

Quote: Muvka

The Americans will not sell them the F-35 with the organization of production and with the transfer of technology

But I’m looking at what the Indians often do not ask the Americans for. It is they who we or the French require, but they are more accommodating with the Americans. "That's what the almighty dollar does."

[yehat]

there is a slightly different situation - due to production volumes the price is reduced
we and the French have a small amount, because prices are high.

[svp67]

Quote: yehat

there is a slightly different situation - due to production volumes the price is reduced
we and the French have a small amount, because prices are high.

It’s not clear here how the demand for technology transfer from some depends on the volume, if this requirement is rejected from others ... As far as I understand, now the Americans are becoming just competitors of the French ...

[yehat]

Americans have been trying for 40 years to tear up the French military-industrial complex.

[sabakina]

If the cost of a bolt is worth a ruble, how can I sell it for 50 cents?

[svp67]

Quote: sabakina

If the cost of a bolt is worth a ruble, how can I sell it for 50 cents?

The remaining 1,50 will be taken from the SERVICE.

[Locksmith]

Quote: svp67

and with the Americans are more accommodating. "That's what the almighty dollar does."

And as I see it, a more subtle game - they still will not quit cooperating with us, and new ideas are still unknown (by us ), they are very useful for the development of Hindu identity (yeah, only smart-to-simple-language translators, unfortunately alone, for free ... .)

[Vlad.by]

The Indians finally realized that no one was going to transfer the Su-57 technologies in full to them either and was not going to.
Not all Americans use other people's money. Ours also could.
And they will buy or not buy the F-35 - the grandmother said in two. They already have candidates for museum exhibits a dime a dozen.
F-35 will be the newest, and only. If Sushi Indians manage to fill up, then the Penguins will not be able to take off from them.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Vlad.by

The Indians finally realized that no one was going to transfer the Su-57 technologies in full to them either and was not going to.

You can pay in full with a coin, but you can also with services ... Hindus put a lot of effort into programming, though they didn’t get the essence, but they can provide listings, this is enough for those who understand, they’ll figure it out later. IT IS ABOUT THE FUTURE COOPERATION OF HINDERS WITH AMER

[Vlad.by]

What did you mean? Who will pair the listings to whom?
Su-30 Indians are not 100% transferred. In any case, they do not use mathematics, but with the letter E. But these are two big differences. The production of engines is also not their "sadness." Nothing particularly useful to the United States.
The Americans will not transfer technology, because with the letter E they have nothing. Sell ​​or yesterday, like us, or very trusted "partners"
Although, in addition to mathematics, the penguin, the radar on board, and the TWELVES and GOS on missiles are nothing new. The stealth cover is not a panacea, and the bird has already stolen its samples in Syria.
But this is not necessary for the Indians to know. Since not only we, but also China will drag out a piece of information from there, do not go to the grandmother. And even the whole apparatus. But this striped friends do not want to. All right, science is somewhere nearby, and if we move forward, then just a little, but they don’t want to feed China. And they’re doing it right.

[MadCat]

Quote: Muvka

The Americans will not sell them the F-35 with the organization of production and with the transfer of technology.

Yes, they will sell it without problems .... with the condition of service from them.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

It is not for nothing that the United States published the info that Pakistan is creating tactical nuclear weapons .. They now have a tidy Indians for a tidy amount ..

[Muvka]

Where is the connection? For Pakistan and MiG-29, Su-30 is enough.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Muvka

Where is the connection? For Pakistan and MiG-29, Su-30 is enough.

You don’t understand their Indians “rich”, they are buying up all those brilliant, like women at shopping, without any system and reason ..))) The USA scares them with Pakistan and China .. Russia is trying to explain that they are being bred ... But alas, they are like children and films they have .. hehe

[yehat]

there is still a lot of archaism in everyday life. And leadership often looks like market life.
Therefore, they behave this way.

[KVU-NSVD]

According to unofficial information, the Indian Air Force is considering the acquisition of 126 new fighters, which will replace the obsolete MiG-27 and MiG-29.

There, from estimations of the organ to the nose to the purchase, there is an abyss ... and seller’s nervous exhaustion. And they often buy the wrong and wrong

[Herculesic]

Let them buy, even if the devil in hell has firebrands from hellfire! Hindus themselves do not really know what they need! They understand that something is clearly necessary for them and what exactly, the FIG knows! Therefore, they throw themselves out of the fire and into the fire!

[Pivot]

Yeah, I remember Raphael they were planning to buy under 100. So 2-3 F35 can buy so that Pakistan died of laughter.

[EnGenius]

This is again an internal struggle against lobbying the interests of Western arms corporations. First of all, India is interested in the possibility of opposing them to the Chinese "stealth". Therefore, for sure, Lokheed did such an analysis for the Pentagon - therefore, indirectly we can compare the F35 with both Russian and Chinese cars. Secondly, they are interested in technology - but there will be no full-fledged technology transfer either from Russia or from the USA. In the third place, the question of equipment speed and price is acute - and here the United States can approach the issue much more flexibly. It is already clear that the FPGA will cost no less than F35, and the production time even taking into account the localization of part of the production will last a decade. Therefore, India will be forced to buy about three dozen F35 to patch a hole to equip its air force.

[Rokiii]

Hindus need to read the "specialists" from a military view, they suddenly change their minds about buying this under-plane fuu-35 who does not know how to perform beautiful somersaults in the air

[sabakina]

Yes yes yes, and watch the movie Rocky, Rocky 2, Rocky 3!

[MadCat]

Quote: Rokiii

Hindus need to read the "specialists" from a military view, they suddenly change their minds about buying this under-plane fuu-35 who does not know how to perform beautiful somersaults in the air

Lieutenant Rzhevsky would disagree with you!

[K-50]

India sees the F-35 fighter as a candidate to replenish its air force.

Campaign, another stuffing. All the same, Indians are not so dependent on the Yankens to be forced to buy this junk, and even for crazy money. Yes, even if so, then hell with them. They will underestimate their own defenses, then let them then ashes and sprinkle their heads. Moreover, this ashes can be the ashes of their cities and citizens. Who knows / what the future is preparing for us.

[Korax71]

Apache long bow, too, junk ???? urgently need to call them and say, they don’t know that. Here are the cattle. They didn’t make out all the buns and nishtyaki of our night hunter. Nuuuuuu are dumb.

[K-50]

Quote: Korax71

Apache long bow also junk ??

You may not have noticed, but we are talking about the F-35. And here is the "Apache"?

[Korax71]

This means that not so long ago everyone was also sure that the Indians would buy a night hunter. It’s cheaper and cooler, all the pedals. But the Indians made a comparison and the night hunter flew like plywood over Paris. Like with fu 35 did not happen

[ancestors from Don]

Hindus are very peculiar, they buy equipment only under the condition of technology transfer.

[poquello]

the main thing is to have a gun, it flies so invisible and bang bang bang bang

[lance]

from the series: two invisibles fly, bang nose to nose, and here who has a larger machine gun and more trunks.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Ancestors from the Don

Hindus are very peculiar, they buy equipment only under the condition of technology transfer.

China buys to study and create for itself .. And the Indians are a strange people, most of the country live in poverty and dirt .. And they buy up expensive weapons from different manufacturers ..
And Pakistan, they have nuclear weapons and they sit exactly, knowing that they are banging, if that ..

[newcomer]

and why is the possible, under a big question, purchase of f35 considered to be in spite of the FFA? this can only mean the complete failure of the idyx five light / medium fighter project. angry Indians preachredno harmful_ not pull themselves heavy five. in general, as soon as the SU57 will be adopted, the arrogance from the Indians will drop sharply. the same can be said of the MIG35.

[lance]

Mig-35im to buy in any case, who will lift the brahmos from the aircraft carrier?

[yehat]

vertical f-35)))

[lance]

she would have to raise her 1,5 tons without turning over

[Bondik05]

One of two things: either the Indians are very cunningly made, or our Su-57s are not a miracle at all. With all my heart I hope for the first, but if it turns out the second, then for some reason I won’t be very surprised.

[Mountain shooter]

Are you probably an aircraft designer? On our Su-57 even the striped-eared lick their lips. But the Indians, he, you know, is not suitable. In fact, all this is a simple trade.

[yehat]

no, this is rudeness, not trade.

[Korax71]

Do you think Trump runs to the report every night with the Pentagon? Are you saying this with one hundred percent certainty? Or is it from an obs? Or a quote like a foreign expert that you don’t even know about the hillock? Believe in fairy tales. How can a country to do weapons that aren’t analogous to the world when she’s stupidly unable to make a normal telephone, household appliances, or a car.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

on the nibira for the su-57 turn infa weaving

[MadCat]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Are you probably an aircraft designer? On our Su-57 even the striped-eared lick their lips. But the Indians, he, you know, is not suitable. In fact, all this is a simple trade.

something in practice while the only client and then the nose turns.

[Mountain shooter]

Standard behavior of Indian merchants. I’ll buy from this, cheaper ... And from that, even cheaper ... In the end, they’ll stay with their noses.

[Elephant]

It would not hurt for our couch generals and not very advanced designers to invite Lockheed Martin representatives to hold an F-35 briefing ...

[sabakina]

Elephant, are you few of our Israeli site mates?

[Serpent Pliskin]

It seems to me that it’s not even that we can’t pull the draft of the 5th generation fighter at all, and not even the transfer of technology - neither we nor the Americans will transfer them. The point is production capacity. Amers f-35 already have their childhood illnesses brought up, the software is adjusted, etc., we would stretch the whole production-transfer-service cycle to hell knows how many years to come. And f-35 is already there - I don’t want to buy

[sabakina]

That is, you want to say that we do not have production capacities for the production of T-50?

[Serpent Pliskin]

I want to say that the amers process of production, logistics and services put on orders of magnitude better.

[APASUS]

It looks like another attempt to force the Russians to cut the price or transfer technologies, well, they want to stir up something again. The Americans will not transfer the technology in any way and the conversation about assembly will probably not come up either.

[Okolotochny]

Recall that back in October last year, the Indian Air Force command reported that the FGFA program did not meet their requirements, and within its framework it would not be possible to create an aircraft that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter.

But this interested me. What are the capabilities of the F-35? In the fighting, in training, run-in and proven? And why are they better than those that are NOT MORE ACCEPTED? They are trying to make us more accommodating and bring down the price in advance.

[voyaka uh]

In the fighting - not yet. And in training, yes. In the United States, large-scale complex exercises of the Air Force were already held. All types of aircraft, and the F-35 proved to be very useful there.

[dauria]

F-35 proved to be very useful there.

Here on the site is not an argument. Need "the best in the world, unparalleled." But just a massive good plane - fi, he does not know how to so-and-so. Yes, and he does not know how to peel potatoes.
It is difficult for our people to accept that for 15 years of walking and rinsing the brains it is necessary to pay with a lag.
I used to think - they would finish the Su-57 engines and, on their basis, they would take on a single-engine mass in cooperation with China. So the Chinese did not wait - at least they muddled their F-35 concept

[Okolotochny]

Alexey, I’m not saying that it is useless. Who and when in training compared these two cars ??? And the article already has a conclusion. I’m talking about this. And Dauria will advise you to restrain your emotions. Verbal anuresis has not yet benefited anyone.

[dauria]

Dauria will advise you to restrain your emotions

Father, a staff psychologist? Then, without emotion - Russia lagged behind for 15 years in creating a front-line fighter-bomber (well, or a strike aircraft in a new style). F-35 competently thought out and as cheap as possible. It is because of the mass. There is nothing to compare and not with anyone - he simply has no competitors in the market. They don’t even need to attach an “administrative” resource - and so they line up. The mass machine took place, as did the F-16 at the time. And if they do, the su-57 will never be a commodity. He was late and will be expensive due to the small series. And do not try to work as a doctor, it is not yours.

[Okolotochny]

And you can see a designer and an expert in military aircraft technology who earn extra money that you so categorically affirm? Have you seen already compared the T-50 and F-35? Well, voice the results?

[Snakebyte]

A dozen years ago, GOSNIIAS, at the request of the Sukhoi Design Bureau (with the money of the Moscow Region), conducted modeling and compiled a report on the capabilities of the Su-30M2 in comparison with competitors. The report was intended for the top leadership of the Ministry of Defense and the Government - it was required to justify the production of the aircraft and its adoption by the Russian Air Force.
So, the report showed the integral efficiency of the Su-30M2 as 0,97 to F-22 and 1,75 to F-35. Cool, yeah? Why even develop the 5th generation?
It’s just that the report did not mention a small detail that the top officials of the Moscow Region and the Government didn’t need to know: the comparison was based on 3 parameters (TREM, Karl !!!) for the aircraft and 10 parameters for the weapons used.
This is where "unparalleled" is taken in the statements of senior officials.
But what really? Our super equipment can only be sold at a 50% discount (S-400 Turkey), for our own credit (Su-30 Venezuela) or in exchange for palm oil (Su-35 Indonesia). And even traditional partners are turning their noses more and more.

[Okolotochny]

Did I say somewhere that our "have no logos in the world"? The fact that you cited excerpts from the report - I understood the thought. But I repeat the question - a comparison of the results of two machines (by the way, not the Su-30M2), I am for the Su-57. Do you have these results? If not, then what is the argument, including in the article? Here I am about it.

[Snakebyte]

Want results? At the moment, the integrated combat effectiveness of the Su-57 is 0,05 from the F-35. Greater than 0 just because the Su-57 could theoretically ram the enemy.

[the most important]

Quote: Snakebyte

Want results? At the moment, the integrated combat effectiveness of the Su-57 is 0,05 from the F-35. Greater than 0 just because the Su-57 could theoretically ram the enemy

Or maybe mathematics is not your hobby ???? Maybe it's better to make music or sing in the choir ???

[Okolotochny]

Where did you get these 0,05? In a dream like Mendeleev? Well, you know how to do it before Washington. Compare the prototype with an aircraft that is already in service. Are you reporting on all the performance characteristics of the Su-57 ??? There is only one author who measures everything with coefficients. Learned from him?

[Snakebyte]

I compare two fifth-generation fighters (yes, I personally think that the Su-57 up to the 5th generation is creeping up to China, but most local patriots think differently. Although the Su-57 is kind of like in the series).
And he considered using the same progressive techniques as the main research institute - he took 3 parameters of the aircraft and evaluated them. The number of air targets hit by Su-57 - 0. The number of ground targets hit - 0. The number of combat-ready aircraft - 0.

[lance]

india just wants to have at least something against the j-20. we can only give invisibility in 2020, which India is not happy with. all arguments about su 30, 35 are pushed aside. f-35 with advertising at least some way out. just what can he? the radius of action of f-35 according to modest outbreaks is 3 times less than J. in terms of load and there is nothing to talk about. Indians do not want to wait, but it’s scary to take bullshit.

[KonoGon]

Su-57 really has no analogues aircraft. And he has no analogues among airplanes, because he is without an engine. These are the analogies. And the Hindus see this, and since they are magnificent in trade, they immediately put pressure on the sore spot.

[sabakina]

Quote: KonoGon

Su-57 really has no analogues aircraft. And he has no analogues among airplanes, because he is without an engine.

Yah? It can be seen that dudes are sitting in motor nacelles with fires!

[Romanenko]

They won’t buy it anyway - the Indians are freeloaders in life, they like to spin the beatsals to suppliers, but this will not work with the states.

[EldoradoR]

If American military equipment is so x @ enov, then why is the whole world buying it, and we only sell crumbs? Take off your pink glasses, with our insane propaganda. Do you think that all of our missiles also hit the target? Yeah, hell bald! Ask the servants how, after starting the pushpins, they transfer them to the funnels or do they manually dig new funnels for the photo report, bonuses and pennants! For this, the West is afraid of us. The devil knows where these missiles with a nuclear HE are brought, what kind of real-time missile defense they have ...

[sabakina]

They also say. we are changing the landscape. and manually ...

[Wolka]

a woman with a mare’s cart is easier, Russia can do without India, the times are not the same, and as for the American flying, everything is simple there, the Yankees practically killed the European military aircraft industry with their project, imposed their own within the framework of the notorious NATO. Today, it’s unlikely for Germans or frogmen to master independently a new 5th generation combat aircraft ...

[nathanael]

They are furious with fat. The whole world is striving for unification. And these nomenclature of weapons is expanding. MiGs rafali Sushki are now f35.

[voyaka uh]

Hindus are scared that the Chinese will very soon begin selling their 5th generation to Pakistan,
and among the Indians - only the 4th. If Russia went to the joint FGFA project, then it would be possible to establish its wide production for the air forces of both countries with Indian financing and access to Western technology. And so, neither to myself nor to people. Russia will remain with three dozen Su-57s, and the Indians shy away from the F-35, which it will be very difficult for them to competently maintain.

[XXXIII]

Quote: voyaka uh

Hindus are scared that the Chinese will very soon begin selling their 5th generation to Pakistan,
and among the Indians - only the 4th. If Russia went to the joint FGFA project, then it would be possible to establish its wide production for the air forces of both countries with Indian financing and access to Western technology. And so, neither to myself nor to people. Russia will remain with three dozen Su-57s, and the Indians shy away from the F-35, which it will be very difficult for them to competently maintain.

Well, let them buy paper airplanes, it’s their choice, why the hell should we merge our designs for them in such a way, and indeed in any way, they went out as they say And then they sat on the stove and wait for freebies, this is our place on the stove and our stove .....
And how many fives do you have in the hangars, two? These three Su-57s may be on display, the rest will not tell us where ......
ps. dreamers know more and more ....

[voyaka uh]

“And how many fives do you have in hangars, two? These three Su-57s may be on display” ///

We have nine in the Air Force so far.

[XXXIII]

Quote: voyaka uh

We have nine in the Air Force so far.

Bought in the store, and we have ours, like this ...
We need to put into operation time and we do it not for 1 year, but with the possibility of the future. There are samples, those who needed it, already got acquainted with the opportunities and prospects, joint development is another. You set up your own 9pcs there for yourself?

[MadCat]

Quote: XXXIII

Well, let them buy paper airplanes, it’s their choice, why the hell are we supposed to merge our designs for that, and indeed, don’t go, as they say laughing. We sat on the stove and wait for freebies, this is our place on the stove and our stove .. ...

you know if you want to make money you need to sell the product when the buyer needs it, otherwise today the Indians will be purchased from the Americans, and tomorrow they will simply not be bought from the Russians.

Quote: XXXIII

Bought in the store, and we have ours, like this

compared, Israel already claims to the laurels of a superpower? if they had arranged for their uncle Sam’s release, a heart attack would have occurred. You there be careful what you wish for.

[XXXIII]

Quote: MadCat

compared, Israel already claims to the laurels of a superpower?

I don’t care what Israel claims to be, it’s about what they are buying, and we ourselves are making five planes.

you know if you want to make money you need to sell the product when the buyer needs it, otherwise today the Indians will be purchased from the Americans, and tomorrow they will simply not be bought from the Russians.

The technologies that we can sell, we sell, the rest of the technologies that are not available on the arms market, cannot be sold so simply. Joint development, these are tasks that are performed by two parties, not one. There are technologies for which not only do not take money, but also protect as president.

if they had arranged for their uncle Sam’s release, a heart attack would have occurred. You there be careful what you wish for.

I didn’t say that , rather it will be the other way around, they will still tearfully ask to be allowed to go there. They themselves say that they are developing jointly, but technologies remain in the United States, they receive a discount on these products, and this practice is beneficial only for Jews , there is no money at all or do not want to work. Our country makes joint developments to obtain technologies, develop new solutions, sometimes we buy them (Mistrals), and do not give promising solutions for a discount .....

[vlad66]

Quote: voyaka uh

We have nine in the Air Force so far.

Well, okay Alexey Batkovich

Quote: voyaka uh

“And how many fives do you have in hangars, two? These three Su-57s may be on display” //

So far 11 prototypes.

[lance]

12 in trial operation with engine 1, two pieces with engine 2

[Voenoboz]

Hindus seem to be lovers of glass beads. Korea (north) surprises me. How can it be squeezed from all sides, without resources, economically weak, and spiteful from the "civilized" countries, to create an atomic bomb and missiles as delivery vehicles - IS RESPECTIVE.

[Hurricane70]

Quote: Donskoy

How much criticism was expressed about f35, just megatons of feces .. However, in fact, all countries willingly take it, even those who did not participate in the project. And how much is contracted by our unpaid analogue in the world of Su-57? Hindus are far from fools to invest in a good car, which will be ready in ten years, when even tomorrow you can order a good, but ready plane. After 10 years, they will still order the upgraded F-35.

They will take the countries, because they have no other choice, the Jews and the Saudis .... well, you yourself know why, Indians, to make us be more accommodating, and no one else needs them for such a price!

[Town Hall]

Quote: Hurricane70

They will take the countries, because they have no other choice, the Jews and the Saudis .... well, you yourself know why, Indians, to make us be more accommodating, and no one else needs them for such a price!

That is, everyone who has money (Europe, Australia, Canada, Korea, Arabs, Israel
b, india) - take f-35 ...


... and more who need them

[XXXIII]

Quote: Town Hall

That is, everyone who has money (Europe, Australia, Canada, Korea, Arabs, Israel
b, india) - take f-35 ...
... and more who need them

Yes sir who will attack the poor

[Korax71]

So there’s nobody else. China has its own. Or are you hoping that they will sell the T50 to the Papuans?

[Berkut24]

I think that the Chinese have relieved ... F-35 instead of Su-57, and even at a price three times more expensive, not considering that half of them will always be "conditionally ready", as well as the total cost of their operation ... Maybe the Chinese told them? Hindus have been able to surprise lately.

[Town Hall]

Quote: Berkut24

I think that the Chinese have relieved ... F-35 instead of Su-57, and even at a price three times more expensive, not considering that half of them will always be "conditionally ready", as well as the total cost of their operation ... Maybe the Chinese told them? Hindus have been able to surprise lately.

This will surprise you. But China has been under sanctions in terms of military supplies since 1989. so it has no choice. Either Russia itself.

[Berkut24]

And where does China have sanctions? It's about the stupidity of India. The supply of India's F-35 will give the Chinese time for their development.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

choice fgfa would give China many times more, lol

[Scalpel]

Su-57 is now much more expensive than the F-35 is obtained. And with such volumes of production, the price will not fall soon.

[Berkut24]

The cost for India was determined at $ 100 million. F-35 of the first shipments cost $ 350 million. Europeans waited for a price of $ 150 million. The Indians received a preliminary offer of $ 130-120 million provided that they were serviced by American specialists (t .k. many systems have to be refined during operation for the first 8 years) How much this service will cost is unknown, but it is known that the Americans put 1,5 trillion into their budget. dollars for the life cycle of its 2000 F-35s. Now, taking into account inflation and lack of construction, the amount is growing by at least another 1 trillion. And where is cheaper?

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

> Now, taking into account inflation and lack of knowledge of the design, the amount grows by at least another 1 trillion.

taking into account the incredible openness of the JSF program, of course, it will be easy for you to confirm your words with proofs

[Xscorpion]

Quote: figvam

Don

Yes, how ready he is, there are still a lot of shortcomings and he can’t reach the 5th generation, there is no supersonic without afterburner. And the Indians are simply blackmailing us and that’s it.

I agree, they just want a cheaper airplane from us with the possibility of assembling a house.

[Serpent Pliskin]

By the way, what do they write about f-35 in China?

[voyaka uh]

They do not hesitate, but they do. J-31

[Serpent Pliskin]

I mean, how the Chinese thematic press discusses f-35 itself, what the Chinese write about it. Just blame, as in Russia?

[voyaka uh]

No. Do not wail. They just copied it as close as possible.
They do not have one powerful engine, like the F-35, so I had to put two.
And the rest is copied.

[lance]

The J-31 is basically deck-based and for export, the Chinese are not going to sell J-20s to anyone, because he flies on Su-27 engines in the Chinese version. and oddly enough, he suits them.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: voyaka uh

They do not have one powerful engine, like the F-35, so I had to put two

J-31 including supposed deck, and the deck laid two motors. It is the Americans who departed from the rule with their F-35, because with two motors the vertical line is much more difficult to do.
So the Chinese did the right thing)

[Lock36]

Hindus - noble dough cutters. I am sure that they simply look closely where there will be more kickbacks.

[Romanenko]

Hindus are Hindus, for the sly @@ part, even the beloved Semites here smoke bamboo aside.
They decided to show it to Russia, such as the Su-57 is not the only fighter to buy twenty for a ruble. They won’t buy, why would they need a rooster with a suitcase instead of an eagle?
Yes, and for the money ...
Choke and not buy!

[kamski]

If the US sells, it's certainly better than co-development