Military Review

Production of Ka-52 Alligator combat helicopters at the AAK PROGRESS plant named after Sazykin

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Production of Ka-52 Alligator combat helicopters at the AAK PROGRESS plant named after Sazykin



"Arsenievskaya aviation Sazykin’s Progress company is one of the largest aerospace companies in Russia. The visiting card of the plant is the Ka-52 Alligator combat helicopters developed by Kamov Design Bureau, ordered by the Ministry of Defense. A large photo report on how these legendary cars are built.

JSC "Arsenyev Aviation Company" PROGRESS "them. NI Sazykina" - aircraft manufacturing company, located in the city of Arsenyev, one of the largest enterprises of the aerospace industry of the Russian Federation. Included in the holding company "Helicopters of Russia".
1.



Aircraft manufactured by the plant have been repeatedly demonstrated at international air shows and arms exhibitions. Over the decades, Progress AAC has closely cooperated with world-renowned design bureaus, A.S. Yakovlev, О.К. Antonova, M.L. Mil, N.I. Kamov, ICB "Rainbow".
2.



The plant starts its work at 8 in the morning, already in 8.30 there is nowhere to park, because more than 6000 people work at the factory.
3.



Production area of ​​the plant - 290 000 sq.m.
4.



Residents of Arsenyev have become accustomed to frequent helicopter flights over the city and do not even pay attention to them. So it's very easy to calculate a visitor :))
5.



In total, the plant houses the 30 workshops of the main and auxiliary production. I start with the foundry.
6.



In this workshop, an Italian integrated mechanized line for manufacturing molds and castings of aluminum, magnesium and cast iron-steel castings, which has no analogues in Russia, has been installed.
7.



Advanced technology provides an increase in dimensional accuracy of castings, their physical characteristics, and also allows you to produce molds for magnesium, aluminum, steel and cast iron on the same equipment.
8.



Until recently, the foundry production of Progress - titanium, cast iron-steel, aluminum and magnesium, were located in different buildings. All this equipment has been used for more than 30 years, has significant wear, part of the complex was under repair or did not work at all. Therefore, forms for melting metals had to be made by hand by tamping the earth mixture. And this is a very laborious process. Now, with the commissioning of the new complex, the molds for castings are made not of clay, sand and earth, but of special cold-hardening mixtures. What allows to increase dimensional accuracy of castings, and also their density and elasticity. This technology makes it possible to manufacture molds for magnesium, aluminum, steel and cast iron on the same equipment.
9.



Next, we go to the machine shop for software processing of parts with an area of ​​1933 square. m
10.



Very precise machine tools with software control, designed to process large-sized parts and assemblies and perform all operations - boring, turning, milling.
11.



The software processing shop of parts of OAO AAK Progress is equipped with CTX 300 Alpha-D machines manufactured by the German company DMG. This company has already supplied turning and milling centers to the company, which are currently successfully operating, they are developing a wide range of parts.
12.



On these machines are processed all kinds of materials that are used now in the enterprise.
13.



A group was created at the plant that develops control programs for new equipment. It includes young promising and responsible specialists. The company has acquired a program for the virtual verification of Vericut control programs.
14.



The holy of holies of "Progress" - aggregate-assembly shop:
15.



Here from thousands of details sculpted the appearance of a helicopter
16.



October 29 2008 in the city of Arsenyev, Primorsky Territory, at the Progress plant, mass production of Ka-52 Alligator helicopters began
17.



According to open source data, up to 2015, the Air Force should get 12 machines.
18.



The development of a modernized Ka-52 two-seater combat helicopter based on the Ka-50 single "Black Shark" began as early as 1994. 25 June 1997, the first flight of the new machine. But due to financial difficulties, it could not be put into mass production. The decision to start work was made only after the creation of the integrated helicopter-building complex of OPK Oboronprom, which united almost all the companies involved in the development and production of Russian helicopter technology.
19.



Ka-52 can conduct combat operations day and night, both in simple and in difficult weather conditions, using all means of destruction. The commander and reconnaissance vehicle of the army aviation allows to increase the effectiveness of group actions of the troops. In addition, the Ka-52 can be used as a training helicopter for training and training pilots.
20.



In the production process, the initial flight characteristics of the Ka-52 are planned to be increased by installing more powerful engines for joint development of the St. Petersburg plant to them. V.Ya.Klimova and Motor Sich JSC. These engines develop power to 2500 horsepower on take-off and 2700 horsepower on short-term emergency modes.
21.



Now Progress is preparing a Ka-52, Mi-34C1 - light helicopter, Ka-62 - medium multi-purpose helicopter for production.
22.



Final assembly shop. Here you can see the Ka-52 in almost finished form.
23.



The process of building a helicopter from the manufacture of the first parts to the beginning of the flight tests takes about 9 months. In the final assembly shop of a variety of parts, components, components and assemblies, including the latest VK-2500 engines, developing emergency power to 2400 HP, gyro-stabilized optical-electronic station GOES-452, the radar complex "Arbalet-52", Ka-52 is created for the navigation complex, the radio communication equipment complex, the self-defense complex, the emergency evacuation complex and many other important systems.
24.



The Ka-52 Alligator multipurpose all-weather combat helicopter is a two-seat modification of the Ka-50 shock. Designed to solve a wide range of combat missions day and night at any time of the year with the use of all means of destruction Ka-50. This is a commander of the army aircraft, designed to improve the efficiency of group actions of combat helicopters.
25.



The Ka-52 helicopter of the coaxial circuit differs from its predecessor by an expanded nose of the fuselage and a double crew cabin in which the ejection seats of the pilots are located side by side. Piloting helicopters can carry out without limitation, both pilots. The cabin is armored.
26.



The helicopter is suitable for use in the training version. High flight data coaxial machine in combination with unique maneuverability allow the Ka-52 to perform combat maneuvers in a small amount of airspace to occupy a favorable attacking position in the shortest possible time.
27.



A large number of weapon options are achieved by placing a fast-moving mobile gun on the right side, as well as at six points of the suspension under the wing in various combinations of an ATGM, a NAR, air-to-air missiles, and a cannon-gun weapons container type and bombs of various calibers. The combat power of the weapon "Alligator" is not inferior to the Ka-50 and surpasses all other existing combat helicopters. The total mass of weapons on the underwing holders is 2000 kg.
28.



The prototype Ka-52 on 85% is based on the Black Shark. The designers tried to make the helicopter that was heavily toned to lose the unique fighting qualities of the Ka-50. On the contrary, the two-seater Ka-52 had more opportunities in a night battle, he is now able to work in a group, in constant contact with ground command posts. This helicopter for the first time in world practice can give battle to an air enemy.
29.



The next stage after the assembly of the helicopter is testing, we are going to LIS (flight test station) and find out that the flights on this day, unfortunately, were canceled.

Many thanks to the press service of the plant for the pictures provided. They will be here to complete the picture:
30.



31.



32.



33.



34.



35.



That's all, go back to the checkpoint and once again pass by the "open-air museum." Let it be too!

In 2006, the administration and the Duma of the Arsenyevsky urban district, as well as the leadership of the Progress AAC, made a joint decision to establish the Far Eastern Aviation Museum in Arsenyev.
36.



The exposition presents the Mosquito anti-ship missile P-270 manufactured by the plant - a Soviet / Russian supersonic low-altitude anti-ship cruise missile with a direct-flow jet propulsion system.
PKR "Mosquito", is part of the missile systems designed to destroy surface ships with a displacement of up to 20 000 tons of ship strike groups, amphibious units, convoys and single ships, both displaced and hydrofoil and air cushion in modern and promising means of fire and electronic countermeasures of the enemy on the firing range from 10 to 120 km (on a low-altitude trajectory) and 250 km (with a high-altitude flight profile).
37.



A very interesting exhibit is the Mi-XNUMHA helicopter.
38.



And here is a modification of the Mi-24, more familiar to the eye :) This technique was also used in armed conflicts in Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Chad, Iraq.
39.



Always liked this "dragonfly" muzzle
40.



Also in the museum was noticed another interesting exhibit - AeroSka Ka-30.
41.



Snowmobile is a power-driven vehicle that is not equipped with a transmission. It moves due to a pushing propeller driven by an internal combustion engine. Simply put, the rear-mounted propeller, rotating, causes the sled to ski on snow or floats on water. Aircraft engines and propellers are commonly used on snowmobiles.
42.



Starting with the 20-ies, snowmobiles were built in the USSR for the development of the North and military needs. At the end of the 50-s, several dozen North-2 sleds were manufactured using the cab and the Victory car body parts. In 1962, at the Progress plant, the development of Ka-30 snowmobiles began, which to a greater extent met the requirements set, with the use of modern constructive solutions for those years. Their production company Dalmashzavod in Komsomolsk-on-Amur has mastered in 1966-m, and the annual production amounted to 25-30 machines. In the production of "Ka-30" used aviation technology developed in the design bureau N.I. Kamov.
43.



And here's another video about the Ka-52 helicopter from the Internet:

Originator:
http://smitsmitty.livejournal.com/86707.html
72 comments
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  1. Podojdi
    Podojdi April 23 2012 07: 41
    +9
    What a beauty! The frightening machine))
    1. Dimitrxnumx
      Dimitrxnumx April 23 2012 07: 51
      +9
      It can be seen that the labor of many people is invested in each machine, I think not many daredevils will want to meet this machine in battle.
      1. tronin.maxim
        tronin.maxim April 23 2012 08: 21
        +4
        Very good, good news! fellow
        1. Reks
          Reks April 23 2012 22: 47
          +2
          Quote: tronin.maxim
          happy news!

          One year ago. Training Center
  2. Prometey
    Prometey April 23 2012 08: 57
    +6
    Still, beautiful modern military equipment is a combination of incompatible aesthetics and lethality.
    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui April 23 2012 15: 34
      +3
      Prometey - one of the standards of deadly beauty - Killer Whale ...
      so that the saying "BEAUTY WILL SAVE THE WORLD" has that connotation wassat
  3. Sarus
    Sarus April 23 2012 08: 58
    +5
    The good news is that a lot of young guys work ..
    So the experience in the production of high-tech equipment is not lost ..
    Such photo reviews are very pleasant ...
    You can see those heroes who forge our shield or maybe a sword :)
  4. Joker
    Joker April 23 2012 09: 45
    10
    Excellent article good

    before 2015, the Air Force must receive 12 machines

    this is ridiculous, here at least 0 at the end needs to be painted on. Well, at least that’s better than nothing at all.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 11: 11
      +3
      But you did not forget that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are 3 times smaller than the Armed Forces of the USSR.
      Even ROSVERTOL cannot produce more than 15 Mi-28N per year. Capacities do not allow. And this enterprise almost never stopped.
      1. Reks
        Reks April 23 2012 22: 39
        +1
        Quote: leon-iv
        Mi-28N

        "Berkuts" are mastering new boards ...
  5. leon-iv
    leon-iv April 23 2012 09: 47
    +2
    As they say, it is not in vain that they invested so much money in this plant.
    As I understand it, the assembly area has not yet been completed.
  6. PSih2097
    PSih2097 April 23 2012 10: 07
    0
    And the Ka-50 was hacked ... Although he can give Mi-28 a head start.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 11: 11
      +6
      Not hacked, but made the right choice Ka-52 is preferable.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 April 23 2012 11: 25
        +1
        The Ka-52 is a helicopter of the squadron commander (the pilot controls, and the commander controls the actions of the squadron and reports on the general situation), but the Ka-50 was more suitable for the role of an attack helicopter than the Mi-28, because somehow fighter pilots cope alone. IMHO
        1. urzul
          urzul April 23 2012 12: 22
          +4
          Do not forget that controlling a plane and a helicopter are quite different things, and the pilots flying on the Ka-50 said that it is difficult to simultaneously conduct a battle and control a machine.
          1. viktor_ui
            viktor_ui April 23 2012 15: 40
            +3
            It is possible that the K-50 could be used by highly qualified pilots in the "free hunt" mode ... a type of piece equipment for high-class pilots with a specific mince good
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 51
              0
              Well, what for they are needed? If all the same can be done on a combat 2-seater plane. And where to teach them?
            2. Reks
              Reks April 23 2012 22: 34
              +4
              Quote: viktor_ui
              pilots of the highest qualification in the "free hunting mode"

              good Torzhok, training center
        2. leon-iv
          leon-iv April 23 2012 13: 22
          +1
          Ka-52 - helicopter of the squadron commander (the pilot controls, and the commander controls the actions of the squadron and reports on the general situation)
          And why cannot this role be played by the Mi-28N?
          but the Ka-50 was more suitable for the role of an attack helicopter
          No, and he can not effectively use complex PNA.
          because somehow fighter pilots do it alone. IMHO
          A completely different class of goals. After all, IS and FB are 2 pilots.
          ps To assess the whole enchantment of Ka-50 control alone I recommend DCS from ED based on this simulator, simulators were created for the Air Force of the Russian Federation and the USA (for A-10)
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 April 23 2012 20: 51
            -1
            A completely different class of goals. After all, IS and FB are 2 pilots.

            the same Su-30MKI can be a fighter and a bomber in any weather and time of day, and the pilot is the same, the same with the MiG 33 (aka 29M).
            And about the fact that the helicopter should be two local, gentlemen relaxed ... If the Mi-28 is a pale likeness of the AN-64 LongBow and block 3, the Ka-50 looks decent at this level, and about the adoption of the Mi-28 weapons, this is a separate song, anyone interested in the subject will raise the archive, everything is described in the comments.
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv April 23 2012 21: 24
              0
              block 3 still has a long way to go and there already 28nm on the way.
              And the same ka-50 is a pale shadow 28n 52A
            2. Reks
              Reks April 23 2012 22: 25
              +3
              Quote: PSih2097
              Ka-50 looks decent at this level

              Torzhok, training center. good At the same time I saw five sides in the air. Beauty!
        3. PSih2097
          PSih2097 April 23 2012 21: 11
          +1
          wiki excerpt:
          Since the helicopter is single-seat, it was supposed to use a different tactic of battle, in which the Ka-50 received external target designation from a reconnaissance helicopter. It was proposed to use a double Ka-52 as such a helicopter.
          Ka-50 barrages in the waiting area until information is received on a closed channel of telecode communication. The information field of the Ka-50 cockpit provides information about the location of the helicopter, the terrain and the coordinates of the target. The conclusion to the target is carried out with an accuracy of several meters. The helicopter strikes and immediately leaves the possible zone of destruction by means of air defense. In addition, the Ka-50 implements the “long arm” principle, that is, equipping an aircraft with armament whose range is greater than that of a potential enemy’s air defense systems.
          1. leon-iv
            leon-iv April 23 2012 21: 22
            0
            a wiki is such a source that the truth is direct.
            One variant of the wrong concept
        4. Reks
          Reks April 23 2012 22: 30
          +3
          Quote: PSih2097
          Ka-52 - helicopter

          Torzhok, training center good
  7. Ion coaelung
    Ion coaelung April 23 2012 10: 30
    +1
    BEAUTY!
  8. alps
    alps April 23 2012 11: 08
    +1
    Hmm, for such a photo story in the past, it was possible to grab a rather feeble period laughing
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 11: 12
      -1
      and now you can grab it, there’s nothing Secret here.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 April 23 2012 11: 28
        0
        Hmm, for such a photo story in the past, it was possible to grab a rather feeble period

        Yes, not a deadline, but on the forehead ...
    2. urzul
      urzul April 23 2012 12: 23
      +1
      There is nothing like that in the photo, but for the photo of one compartment on the PAK FA, the guy was soldered.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv April 23 2012 13: 23
        0
        Grummy chtol?
  9. Trailer
    Trailer April 23 2012 11: 11
    +1
    I love combat helicopters, but, alas, I know about the level that modern means of defeating them from the ground have reached!
    1. Prometey
      Prometey April 23 2012 12: 14
      +5
      Trailer
      Well, the question is not straightforward. In fact, a fighter with MANPADS who goes out to shoot down a combat helicopter is formally recorded as a suicide bomber. In Afghanistan, only either chipped, or spirits with too iron nerves with vaunted "stingers" could withstand the approach of helicopters to the attack - these are not my words - an inaccurate quote.
  10. Nazrug
    Nazrug April 23 2012 11: 27
    0
    Quote: Karavan

    I love combat helicopters, but, alas, I know about the level that modern means of defeating them from the ground have reached!

    Well, everything here already depends on the command, it’s stupid to send helicopters until the enemy’s air defense by other means intended for this is destroyed. The helicopter is already the final stage, the search and finishing off survivors, so to speak, as well as the reconnaissance and support of the ground forces. Unfortunately, we often do exactly the turnover.
  11. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 12: 40
    -7
    Quote: urzul
    urzul
    There is nothing like that in the photo, but for the photo of one compartment on the PAK FA, the guy was soldered.



    Well, my dear friend ... Why do you allow ADEP PUTINSKY to post such "secret" frames on this site. And whether there is something important in the photo or not, completely different people will decide.
    But, I think that your owners will not pat you on the head.
    Aren't you afraid that you can be scolded at the gangster edrosovy meeting place?
    smile
    Look, otherwise, after May 7, today, the enemy, who chose himself for the next 6 years (and God forbid, 12) from impunity for everything done, is completely cut off and will clean the ranks.
  12. Saburov
    Saburov April 23 2012 12: 55
    +4
    The combat experience of using helicopters showed that it is a helicopter that can, at low altitude, approach the air defense unnoticed and attack, but in general the helicopter was originally created as a machine for quickly transferring troops to hard-to-reach places, and only then as an attack machine against enemy armored vehicles, with proper use , which was part of the doctrine of the USSR, six MI-24 carried a column, even covered by air defense, approaching at a height from 6 to 12 meters, but thank God, such cases did not happen in reality.
  13. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 14: 01
    -4
    Nothing. There are certain hopes that 2013 may be the last for Putin's thieves' gang.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 14: 03
      0
      relax the revolution is canceled.
    2. Prometey
      Prometey April 23 2012 14: 10
      0
      Why 2013?
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 57
        +2
        Why 2013?
        maybe in 2012 the end of the world
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 April 23 2012 20: 57
          0
          maybe in 2012 the end of the world

          Nibiru is waiting for its victims ... good
  14. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 14: 16
    +2
    And, you still ask WHY!

    Yes, because there are enough freaks at the head of my country to humiliate Russia and its people. The most interesting will begin towards the end of this year ...

    Many experts expect at the end of 2012, the beginning of 2013, a second, more severe phase of the crisis. And also the start of military intervention in Syria and Iran. Really, do you really think well, and the home of the United States and Israel will abandon the military operation? And, one can only guess what impunity and impudence of the USA and Israel can lead to. And, it may well be that this time Russia will be involved in this confrontation. By the way, maybe you can tell me why the situation of 2011-2012-2013 is better than 1939-1940-1941? Than? Then fascist Germany also methodically captured one country after another? Or is the modern United States and Israel better than Germany in the 40s of last year? YES NOTHING!
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 23
      0
      I will be very happy if omerikamechi get into Iran
  15. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 14: 49
    -1
    And yet, gentlemen, comrades? Maybe I'm wrong? If so, can you correct me in my opinion about suspicious parallels with the pre-war situation of World War 2? I will be glad to hear your opinion.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 25
      0
      that wars are fought for resources and not for territory
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 April 23 2012 20: 59
        +1
        that wars are fought for resources and not for territory

        War must be profitable. This is an axiom of politics, though our politicians have not yet heard it, and if they have heard it, they have not yet realized it, and if they have realized it, they are afraid of the population. Damn, it turns out a vicious circle ...
    2. aksakal
      aksakal April 23 2012 21: 55
      +2
      Quote: Patriot
      And yet, gentlemen, comrades? Maybe I'm wrong? If so, can you correct me in my opinion about suspicious parallels with the pre-war situation of World War 2? I will be glad to hear your opinion.
      - there are parallels, there is a difference.
      But, in my opinion, whoever claims that the war is being fought over resources greatly simplifies the picture, which greatly distorts the overall picture. The fight is not for resources, but for control over resources - this is not the same thing, because whoever controls them is on a horse. In general, on the whole, the struggle is being waged "for a place in the sun" - for the most favorable conditions for their development, because large social systems, like living things, must develop and evolve, for which they need certain conditions. If the Great Depression is raging at one end of the world (Amera of the 1930s), and at the other end of the world there is a stable economic growth of 6-7% per year (the USSR of the same years), then this creates dangerous distortions and threatens death for that civilization , which is currently not on horseback. Therefore, there is not even a struggle for resources, but a struggle for life and death.
      Now the same picture - China is growing steadily and at the same pace, in the States for many years stagnation and stagnation. Japan, Korea, and Europe are already straining from such growth in China. And Russia does not manage to hide its concern badly. But the difference from that situation is one more thing: the USSR grew up there, a whole group of countries - BRICS - is growing at the same pace. And the West is an unpleasant prospect of being an outsider, which is tantamount to death. There is only one way out - to stop the rapid development of China, and even better, return it to the Stone Age. Amer knows how to do this - look at Libya, Somalia, Egypt (Egypt is such a slop compared to that Epiptus, which almost equally fought with the Jews). and other. Another thing is that China is not the USSR, and there are nuclear weapons, there are 4 times as many people, and there will be more economic power. It is unlikely that he will simply bomb himself in the Stone Age. With Iran back and forth, with difficulty, but you can, then with the West there is only one way out - either to reconcile or to pit it with a Russian bear, and the cool moment is great to help the Russians with a new Lend-Lease. Only now Russia doesn’t smile for the second time to step on the same rake for the sake of Western interest, and I’m even trying to shoot those who in Russia start to advocate Brzezinski’s plan for Russia’s accession to the Atlantic Alliance, Europeans, Europeans are closer to me than these cross-eyed and other nonsense. In the Atlantic Union of Russia, such a place - shock ram and a supplier of cannon fodder - is allotted to Russia, and there is no need to flatter oneself.
  16. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 15: 05
    0
    Rebeta. DO NOT MINU POP. It seems to me that this is stupid. Better, let's talk, discuss, or what?
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 26
      +3
      nivapros
      1 stop changing the font
      2 ask clear questions
      3 no tantrums
  17. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 15: 49
    0
    Quote: leon-iv

    leon-iv is that wars are fought for resources and not for territory


    1-think about your offer
    2-while we are not drinking vodka together (and hardly drink), let's get to you? smile
    There were no 3 tantrums. These are all emotions from the awareness of Putin’s acting by the current government over the past 12 years.
    4-about resources you my friend famously said. That's just because the resources are located on someone else’s territory. It is so? And, speaking about the territory, I did not mean the sukok of land that is not used (as is done in Modern Russia), but a piece of land with some kind of land (arable land) or underground resources.

    Quote: leon-iv
    I will be very happy if omerikamechi get into Iran


    By the way, where does a Russian citizen have so much joy from possible aggression and intervention of a potential adversary of his country on the territory of Iran friendly to us? I don’t understand you.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 15: 56
      0
      1-think about your offer
      ok start get.
      2-while we are not drinking vodka together (and hardly drink), let's get to you? smile
      It is fundamentally?
      There were no 3 tantrums. These are all emotions from the awareness of Putin’s acting by the current government over the past 12 years.
      if others have such an opinion, there is reason to think.
      Meanwhile, let us judge by facts, not by slogans. Moreover, it is a military resource.
      That's just because the resources are located on someone else’s territory. It is so?
      Undoubtedly the territory of the oil fields (let's take this resource) and the road to the metropolis but not the entire territory of the captured state.
      And, speaking about the territory, I did not mean the sukok of land that is not used (as is done in Modern Russia)
      Something like this happened that we already have a lot of resources in places where there is mostly permafrost.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 16: 45
      +1
      By the way, where does a Russian citizen have so much joy from possible aggression and intervention of a potential adversary of his country on the territory of Iran friendly to us? I don’t understand you.
      1 US / low-shaving enemy to us and this cannot be denied. And their next military adventure is in our hands.
      2 If they fight, then they will not do without a ground. And this is at least 300-400 thousand people. So estimate the costs. And which grouping needs to be collected
      3 We leave China directly through armaments.
      4 It is highly desirable that the Iranians still drive 100 ISAF forces into Afghanistan.
      5 The restructuring of the military industry from poip armaments to weapons of the great war.
      So estimate how many nishtyakov will receive Russia.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 23 2012 16: 52
        -1
        Iran is no less adversary than the United States. And maybe more. Iran has a sphere of interests in the same Caucasus, for example, the same as Russia.
        1. leon-iv
          leon-iv April 23 2012 17: 22
          0
          Well, how would you say he is not an adversary to us, especially since we are on the same continent wink
          1. Pimply
            Pimply April 23 2012 19: 22
            0
            That is, it has always been, and now it has ceased? And this is taking into account Russia's ongoing war with certain Islamic groups and formations? Stop, wait, and on one mainland - that is, it is now his friend to write? 8)))
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv April 23 2012 19: 41
              0
              if you tell me Iran is a very interesting education.
              But as a military adversary, he is nobody for us.
  18. Pimply
    Pimply April 23 2012 16: 12
    -1
    http://twower.livejournal.com/572607.html

    Here is a good overview of the helicopter. Well, and accordingly, problems emerge - regular malfunctions of on-board equipment, the result of regularly used guided missiles, the Arbalet radar, which was supposed to become standard, but has not yet been finalized, and much more

    And, according to the pilots' reviews, the SC-52 still has ACS damp
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 16: 14
      0
      Yes, I read it from Denis. This is the usual way of technology to the troops no more.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply April 23 2012 16: 51
        -1
        I agree. It’s just that the people are singing the praises, but it’s necessary somehow to be wiser to evaluate.
  19. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 16: 51
    +2
    leon-iv
    1st try.
    2-about vodka, this is not important, but rather figuratively. Not only that, I can not stand her, and you probably do not live in Voronezh, like me.
    3-let's judge by the facts! So tell me, as a lover of facts, how many times has the combat efficiency of the army decreased during the reign of EBN-GDP?
    Tell me how many times during this time decreased:
    Army size
    - in technically sound condition of tanks,
    bmp
    -btr
    - airplanes
    helicopters
    air defense and intelligence systems?
    - being on combat duty, and not decommissioned missiles and nuclear warheads
    - how much is currently undeveloped by privatization and the OPK plant has not been sold for shopping centers
    - how many skilled personnel remained in these plants?
    etc.
    4-About territories, oil and gas resources and roads to them, I still do not understand what you want to say. For, why would potential conquerors need a territory unsuitable for the extraction of resources. I did not understand the idea.
    5-Is there really localized permafrost in the regions of Russia bordering China? I'm talking about the Chita, Amur and Irkutsk regions, Altai republics, Buryatia, Tuva, and the Khabarovsk Territory. There is almost no permafrost. As well as almost completely there is no population and any attention from the current government. But there is a clear intervention from the Chinese illegally emigrating to Russia. By the way, if anyone does not remember how Kosovo was torn away from Serbia, let me remind you. Initially, Kosovo Muslims began to actively settle on the territory of Kosovo, while at the same time there was an active crowding out of Slavic Serbs, which over time practically disappeared there. And, at one fine moment, when voting in a referendum on secession from Serbia, almost the entire population unanimously voted for secession. And, all this, of course, took place with the active support of the USA and the West and with the full connivance of Our country. Now, the best friends of Kosovo are the countries of Western Europe and the United States. Divide and conquer is their core technology. THAT'S ALL! Everything is elementary. I believe that if the situation in our country develops at such a pace, then absolutely the same situation may happen in the regions of the Russian Federation that I mentioned above, after which impressive territories can be torn away from Russia.
    And our anti-people authorities, with the complete silence of the people, will describe all this in vivid democratic colors and in accordance with incomprehensible memoranda on the self-determination of national minorities and with all kinds of resolutions of the United Nations, UNESCO, the OSCE, etc.
    Yes, what can I say, did someone really shut up when Dima and Vova gave away our territories to China and Norway?
    1. Joker
      Joker April 24 2012 11: 58
      0
      Quote: Patriot
      3-let's judge by the facts! So tell me, as a lover of facts, how many times has the combat efficiency of the army decreased during the reign of EBN-GDP?

      laughing first you look at how much it decreased during the Khrushchev-Yeltsin period and compare Putin-Medvedev. I think you will be immeasurably surprised, because it was during the Khrushchev-Yeltsin period that everything went through ... if we are now going up. You can’t look at the number of aircraft, because now the transition from quantity to quality is everywhere and it’s right, because in peacetime it’s better to feed 800 000 professionals than 1 500 000 ordinary soldiers. And we will not be able to equip 1 500 000 and train purely financially now, hence the reduction, for which we increased salaries. There are pros and cons, at least money is now allocated for this, and not as before. You probably were not many years old and you did not find the collapse of the USSR, but I found it and there is something to compare, the peak of combat efficiency was under Stalin, then a sharp drop began, now we are starting to increase. Purely logical reasoning, is there a task to destroy the militants who have settled in the village, who can cope with it better and more efficiently? A company of soldiers poorly trained and armed or a platoon of specialists with excellent training and weapons? A company may drive them out faster, but the losses will be great, and the specialists will do everything jewelry, with minimal losses. This is of course if you do not take air support and artillery. We fought in the second world war with such tactics of the crowd, and went through training to the bayonet front, hence the losses. And here you read about the armored infantry, how it was trained and equipped, and compare its effectiveness with an ordinary soldier of the USSR. There were fewer of them in 10, but they coped with such tasks that ordinary soldiers could not cope with. Read, I advise you, it is very interesting even in terms of not our discussion, but simply to broaden our horizons.
  20. leon-iv
    leon-iv April 23 2012 17: 21
    0
    Not only that, I can not stand it, and you probably live not in Voronezh, as I do
    I love vodka so I drink it extremely rarely so as not to spoil the culture of consumption thereof.
    Army size
    Since 91, 3 times. But you should not forget that the armies of other countries are drying out in the 2000s at a very brisk pace. An example of Germany.
    - in technically sound condition of tanks,
    Sufficiently undergo a planned modernization. For example, EMNIP T-72B in the number of 170 vehicles will be brought to the level of T-72BAob 2011 in two years. And this is only the first contract.
    bmp
    They are waiting for Kurganets-25 to slowly upgrade BMP-1 and BMP-2
    -btr
    Buy BTR-80 and BTR-82A waiting for a boomerang.
    - airplanes
    helicopters

    I think it’s worth GOZ to see a lot of interesting things there.
    - being on combat duty, and not decommissioned missiles and nuclear warheads
    Nedano took the 2nd regiment of YaRS, the mace was dopped and the amount is regulated by START-3.
    how many at the moment are left undeveloped by privatization and OPK plant not sold for shopping centers
    - how many skilled personnel remained in these plants?

    Enough 2nd largest defense deliveries around the world after all. At the same time, the life-giving crisis helps us. EMNIP of machine tools alone is imported into Russia by 300 billion rubles each year and grows by 40-60 billion each year.
    - About the territory, oil and gas resources and the roads to them, I still do not understand what you want to say. For, why would potential conquerors need a territory unsuitable for the extraction of resources. I did not understand the idea.
    Why capture the whole country when it is possible to capture oil production areas and plant your PSCs there + permanently bombing the entire enemy (I think I understand the allusion to Omega
    But there is a clear intervention from the Chinese illegally emigrating to Russia.
    Not Chinese but Manchu
    I believe that if the situation in our country develops at such a pace, then absolutely the same situation may happen in the regions of the Russian Federation that I mentioned above, after which impressive territories can be torn away from Russia.
    When was the last time in Siberia, I recently flew from Kemerovo. and the people’s structure is normal. And still want to surprise you. There are many Koreans and not Chinese, although for us Russians are all cross-eyed.
    And our anti-people authorities, with the complete silence of the people, will describe all this in vivid democratic colors and in accordance with incomprehensible memoranda on the self-determination of national minorities and with all kinds of resolutions of the United Nations, UNESCO, the OSCE, etc.
    Yes, yes, we were especially interested in these organizations in 080808
    Yes, what can I say, did someone really shut up when Dima and Vova gave away our territories to China and Norway?
    Have you seen these islands on the Amur?
    Threat about the number of vehicles in comparison with the Armed Forces of the USSR and the Russian Federation. My military family and my father-in-law personally copied the Is-2 and T-10M tanks. My uncle sent the first series to the sump of the submarine. And so we can talk about 30% of the military equipment of the USSR in the 80s were on the balance sheet, but in fact corpses. And there were VERY VERY MUCH ones.
  21. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 17: 51
    +1
    1st I will not believe that the reduction of the army of the FRG led to at least the slightest decrease in the security of the German army. And, if you could notice, then I asked about the state of today's army. And, its comparison with the army of the USSR.
    And in your words, there are a lot of phrases in the style of "waiting", "buying", and what is this SDO. If the State Defense is ordering, then these are only plans that in today's Russia have the property of CRITICALLY NOT WITHSTANDING.
    2-Not the Chinese but the Manchus. What is the difference? Personally, I do not know. For, mentioning Kosovo, I spoke about the technology of alienating the territories of national enclaves from one country or another, and which of them will populate our territories with the Chinese or the Manchus, and also subsequently dominate, will be completely without a difference.
    3-Pro 080808 these were simple show-offs. Or a way to at least somehow justify victims unheard of for peacetime among Russian citizens.
    4-speak beautifully about modernization plans, numbers, etc., But, personally, I trust the opinion of real military experts more. Murakhovsky, Baranets, Shurygin, Ivashov, etc. Which have incomparably greater experience and knowledge than Serdyukov and Makarov.
    5-regarding the territories transferred to China and Norway, firstly, this is a prident, and secondly, it turns out that our fathers and grandfathers in vain shed their blood for damansky in the 1960s. Thirdly, the territories given to Norway, to put it mildly, are soooo childless. And, if we recall that in the 90s EBN also presented part of our territory to Amers, then it becomes not at all funny. As the saying goes, dashing trouble began.
    But, at the same time, it should be given back, it's nice to talk with you. Although, as it seemed to me, the neglect of some little things and subtleties is obvious.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 18: 17
      0
      1st I will not believe that the reduction of the army of the FRG led to at least the slightest decrease in the security of the German army.
      Meanwhile, it is a fact that tank bats are cutting the fleet, they are cutting the Air Force, too. Wunderwafel no count on the help of the Allies.
      And, if you could notice, then I asked about the state of today's army. And, its comparison with the army of the USSR.
      It depends on how you compare. Here is an example of a comrade serving in the Teykovo Strategic Rocket Forces during the service, it shot at 1 cartridges. In the USSR they shot far less in ordinary units. Or BG standards for brigades are much tougher than in the USSR. Feeding better service conditions too. PPE is more saturated.
      If Gosoboron is an order, then these are only plans that in today's Russia have the property CRITICALLY NOT BE ABLE.
      To do this, it is necessary to punish those who are to blame with the ruble. And show where all the deadlines are maintained. Maybe for ikov. Or do you think the USSR did everything on time?
      What is the difference?
      East is a delicate matter. 90% of the population of China do not give a damn about the CCP and great China (they have such a mentality). So China is 150 major nationalities that, to put it mildly, really do not like each other. So the Manchus have always been oppressed and will continue to oppress the local showdowns. So the Chinese have a homeland where it’s good.
      About 080808 it was a simple show off.
      Meanwhile, BTG completed its task, the necessary lessons were made, errors are corrected.
      4-speak beautifully about modernization plans, numbers, etc., But, personally, I trust the opinion of real military experts more. Murakhovsky, Baranets, Shurygin, Ivashov, etc. Which have incomparably greater experience and knowledge than Serdyukov and Makarov.
      You still drag the sick grandfather of Trastopshin and the temple girl. In serious discussions, they will refer to the bad manners.
      In addition to Murakhovsky, that pro in tanks.
      Shurygin, the political officer, I have seen a lot of such people.
      Baranets ordinary staffer
      Ivashov, similarly, a staff officer in the troops was from 65 to 74
      with regard to the territories transferred to China and Norway, firstly, this is a incident, and secondly, it turns out that our fathers and grandfathers in vain shed their blood in Daman in the 1960s.
      These were then disputed territories
      that in the 90s EBN also presented part of our territory to amers, it is no longer funny.
      Cheat?
  22. Wolkin
    Wolkin April 23 2012 17: 53
    +2
    A beautiful review article on the plant, but even there are some interesting points.
    Of course, the first is the number of helicopters produced per year. An aircraft factory is profitable if it produces 100 -150 units of aircraft per year, if it does not reach this amount, it becomes unprofitable. Second: if you paid attention to foundry equipment Italy, CNC machine tools Germany, etc. and how many Russian? Equipment, machines also require maintenance, maintenance, and repair.
    And suddenly, before the blessed 2020, relations with these countries worsen, or something else to happen, is it to produce a blow below the belt, what will we do?

    Joker
    .... this is ridiculous, here at least 0 at the end you need to paint on. Well, at least that’s better than nothing at all ....
    leon-iv
    But you did not forget that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are 3 times smaller than the Armed Forces of the USSR.



    I will try to insert my opinion too.
    Therefore, military science is called science, which can, should and must calculate how much it is necessary to have combat-ready helicopters, tanks, planes, soldiers, for a country like ours. There is such a thing as operational density of troops. What should be the operational density of army aviation (helicopters) for our country? What is the density of our border neighbors? Where should we have more or less helicopters and how many? What AA reserves should we have? How quickly will we be able to increase AA in the event of a military conflict?
    And our politicians should determine to us, and who is our likely adversary? What military action are we preparing for? Where are the most likely theaters of war?
    I have neighbors when they say that we have fewer military aircraft, they answer me: - why do we need it, now we live well, you can buy any boots in the store, you want China, you want Germany, and aviation for us boots does not sew.
    Something like this.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 18: 21
      -1
      According to the Sun http: //president.rf/ref_notes/461
      I almost gave a link to Nezavisimaya Gazeta))))
  23. Patriot
    Patriot April 23 2012 18: 08
    +1
    Quote: Wolkin

    Wolkin But our politicians must determine for us, and who is our likely adversary? What military action are we preparing for? Where are the most likely theaters of war?
    I have neighbors when they say that we have fewer military aircraft, they answer me: - why do we need it, now we live well, you can buy any boots in the store, you want China, you want Germany, and aviation for us boots does not sew.
    Something like this.


    All right, say it. As such, the country's development strategy and military doctrine are practically nonexistent. And when we try our best to go to the meeting of Amer, we build their eyes, and then they openly call us enemies number 1 along with Iran, we just want to laugh at our non-rulers, especially at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. What can I say, how many times have the countries of NATO and the United States deceived us, starting with the humpback, who was promised not to move NATO to the east, and then repeatedly drove like that from ebn, gdp, ladies ... I don’t understand why to cut your arsenal of nuclear weapons, if ns are surrounded on all sides by missile defense systems. With our own hands we are helping to deprive us of a retaliatory nuclear salvo. Well, tell me, aren't these anti-people actions?

    And about the neighbors ... There are no words. So he can think and say, only stupid, narrow-minded and uneducated plebs. I speak as it is.
  24. leon-iv
    leon-iv April 23 2012 18: 24
    -2
    About the islands on the Amur.
    One named Gorbachev () signed an agreement with China in 1991 on the border along the Amur channel and all of these islands were supposed to go to China. So I consider it a merit of our diplomats that a deliberately losing position was wrapped up in that we got 0 islands instead of 1,5
  25. a_lex
    a_lex April 23 2012 20: 43
    0
    Beautiful, sorry just slowly.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 21: 25
      -1
      and you try to raise such a complex cooperation again
  26. aksakal
    aksakal April 23 2012 22: 06
    +4
    Quote: a_lex
    Beautiful, sorry just slowly.
    - the operating schedule is already 6000 people, the area is already 290 square meters, the technologies are advanced, and the productivity is only a helicopter per month. Does such a mountain give birth to a mouse? recourse Or am I not understanding something? Who can explain? Honestly, I thought that the factory in Arsenyev released a sort of small mailbox for five hundred people, and therefore not enough. And here actually an industrial giant, and even equipped with the latest technology is strange ..
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 23: 09
      0
      you do not understand and measure modern production at the old scale of production. Proto here produce a lot of parts for the helicopter and not just carry out the final assembly but in addition it is design bureau and production of missiles
    2. Kolesnikoff.dmitr
      Kolesnikoff.dmitr April 23 2012 23: 35
      0
      All production is concentrated in one plant, plus almost manual assembly.
  27. Isk1984
    Isk1984 April 23 2012 23: 03
    0
    Yes, statistics on production closer to the shipyard what 12 cars are up to 15 years old, this is funny wives ... it's cynical, but still only for an hour of battle ....
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 23 2012 23: 23
      0
      you probably confuse something 140 cars until 2020
  28. Maxim86
    Maxim86 April 24 2012 00: 33
    0
    A similar article was published in the journal Popular Mechanics No. 11 of 2011.
    Any news about the re-equipment of industrial enterprises (especially the military-industrial complex) is a delight and joy!
    But about the foundry, it is written completely illiterate.
  29. Patriot
    Patriot April 24 2012 09: 19
    +1
    Quote: leon-iv

    leon-iv
    and you try to raise such a complex cooperation again



    And it wasn’t a fig that the Yeltsin-Putin gangster group was so actively destroying? And, in general, as it seems to me, my friend edros-asset? You probably zombie on the gangplanks? They broadcast all pseudo propaganda nonsense, very far from the truth!
    Otherwise, you would so actively "fight off" the critical statements of your interlocutors.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 24 2012 14: 50
      +1
      Alas, I am a process engineer and it knows no worse than you. I’m talking about this.
      Otherwise, you would so actively "fight off" the critical statements of your interlocutors.
      So it would be why slogans on slogans are beaten off with slogans, and I like to work with facts.
  30. Patriot
    Patriot April 24 2012 11: 37
    0
    It seems to me that on the gangplanks you were simply pumped up with false data. And, this, it seems to me, describes the real situation in the defense industry complex.


    The bankrupt "Izhmash" is being sold and leased: the giant arms factory is no longer needed
    http://warfiles.ru/show-6172-razorivshiysya-izhmash-rasprodayut-i-sdayut-v-arend

    u-oruzheynyy-zavod-gigant-uzhe-ne-nuzhen.html

    So, my friend, please end up throwing edrosovskie mantras about how everything is fine in our country under Putin's presidency.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 24 2012 14: 54
      0
      The bankrupt "Izhmash" is being sold and leased: the giant arms factory is no longer needed
      Tell you what is technological bankruptcy?
      But meanwhile, I really want Izhmash to be closed and divided into several arms companies. You probably didn’t come across modern Izhmash weapons; I came across disgusting quality. As a user, I don’t need it. MO, too, they need quality equipment at a reasonable price.
      Moreover, Izhmash was supposed to produce such capacities for the SA with its millions of reservists of modern RA and the reserves would be enough for more than one world war.
      There will be a new machine will be purchased.
  31. arni
    arni April 24 2012 13: 26
    0
    The car is good, but the assembly shop is pretty poor.
  32. Patriot
    Patriot April 24 2012 17: 53
    0
    [quote = leon-iv]
    leon-iv

    Where did you get such incomprehensible awareness? You know all right ... Or is it just a show off? Yes, no offense will be said.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 24 2012 23: 02
      0
      consider me part of an old war clan.
  33. zlibeni
    zlibeni April 25 2012 07: 54
    0
    say whatever you want, but you blamed the Apache that it is weakly armored. although the Apache can withstand 20mm shilka shells. but judging by the photo, at least some serious reservation is not noticed on the Ka-52
  34. Patriot
    Patriot April 25 2012 14: 42
    0
    Wow, how pathetic that ...
    How old are you, my friend, that you so easily classify yourself as an incomprehensible old military clan?
    The fact that you are pumped up with food-grade mantras is visible to the naked eye.
    I feel sorry and sorry for you. What do you allow these enemies of the people to zombie yourself. Humanly sorry. For, it seems to me you want to stay in some kind of blindness. Although, if it is generously paid from the state pocket by representatives of a gang of crooks and thieves, then this is not just blindness, but a betrayal of the country.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv April 25 2012 21: 00
      -2
      neo you what pill blue or red))))
      Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive
  35. Patriot
    Patriot April 26 2012 12: 20
    +1
    Quote: leon-iv

    leon-iv neo you what pill blue or red))))
    Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive Alive


    I definitely don't understand you. What are you speaking about? What kind of neo? What kind of "live"? Is this really such slang of the Kremlin trolls?