Military Review

Wreck An-148. Why do airplanes fall?

140


Saratov Airlines Airlines An-148 crashed after departure from Domodedovo Moscow Airport to the city of Orsk, Orenburg Region. On board was a 71 man. No one survived.

It is doubly regrettable, sincerely condolenced to all relatives who have lost loved ones in this tragedy.

Aircraft should not fall. Especially Russian.

Indeed, doubly unpleasant, because An-148 is ours, local. And one of the central TV channels has already allowed himself such a lunge, they say, what have they done in Voronezh? In the same place where the proton engines are assembled.

Well, Ukraine will now get to the full, I am sure.

Yes, the aircraft was assembled in Voronezh. But on VASO they collected IL-2, Tu-144, IL-86, IL-96 and a lot of things with wings and flying.

Not an indicator.

More precisely, the indicator, but somewhat different. An indicator of the state of industry in our country in general and in Voronezh in particular.

The An-148 aircraft with the tail number 61704 (serial number 40-06) was released at PJSC VASO in 2010, and this year it was put into operation at Rossiya JSC. He was not old, 8 years - it's nothing at all.

Yes, when the "Protons" began not to take off, everyone started to move. And the “effective manager” from “Rostelecom” Kamyshev with the gang of his girls was still replaced by a specialist Belousov (may God bless him with health and success). And then it became clear to Rogozin that working for such a salary is a shame.

Salary remained the same, though. Little added, so that was visible efforts.

And what about VASO, is it better?

Why did it happen?

The production of An-148, by the way, is officially “frozen”. Since January 1 2018. Before the advent of those who want to buy this plane. And it was made quite a short time before the events of the year 2014.



The plant really was already dying by then. UAC stubbornly did not want to take VASO and provide work. But emissaries from Ufa, Samara and some other cities regularly organized actions to entice the best specialists.

And experts moved. And they quit. Normally, if nobody needs a factory, a good shot will find a place for itself. As a young engineer told me two years ago, when he quit a huge bet in 16 thousand rubles, “I was tired of not seeing anything ahead.”

Now he sees. The officer (lieutenant) of the VKS, is driving drones in the neighboring area. 45 thousand and bright prospects.

An-148 - a strange plane. Unnecessary to anyone from the start. He was drafted from the baton at the Antonov Design Bureau, they were put together with the world (there, as in the Superjet, the hodgepodge was still there), somehow the engines were made on Motor Siche (and why should we try for the klyats?) .



But surprisingly, An-148 was quite a decent plane. At the end of the article I will specifically leave a couple of links to reviews.

But he flew not in spite of, but thanks. Due to the fact that in Voronezh 8-10 years ago, there were still people at VASO who could "learn to fly planes". Today - I do not know. Tomorrow - I do not even dare to predict.



Today, this young man with an inspired look is engaged in the restoration of VASO. Alexey Dmitrievich Rogozin. General Director of PJSCAviation complex to them. S.V. Ilyushina ”and vice president of transport aviation, PJSC United Aircraft Corporation.

A good set of titles and posts for such a young man.

January 16 2018 in Voronezh was a meeting of Rogozin and heaps of local "io", "temporary" and other temporary, but nevertheless tangible officials. Oh, yes, Sergey Isaenko, executive director of the Voronezh Aircraft Building Company PJSC, was also invited.

Alexey Rogozin said that in 2018, the process of transition of enterprises, which belongs to the UAC group, including VASO PJSC, to the status of branches of the corporation, will begin.

With regard to capacity utilization, at the moment VASO is completing the formation of a multi-year production plan, starting with 2018, with the prospect of reaching economic efficiency by 2022.

During the meeting, options for cooperation between VASO and other enterprises within the same platform, for example, with the oil and gas cluster, were also considered. The company has unique equipment and qualified personnel, and there is the possibility of additional loading.

(According to the Directorate for Media Relations and Administrative Work of the Government of the Voronezh Region.)

Is the depth of the approach clear? Airplanes are great, but ... Why? Why build Russian aircraft? You can also buy leased used, but excellent imported!

And all the strength and unique equipment is better to throw on the development of the oil and gas complex!

Especially since the last 10 years of VASO is not something that has not experienced underloading in terms of orders, the plant breathed its last.

But we have already written so much on this topic last year that we simply do not want to repeat.

Armature is necessary and pumps for pumping oil and gas! That's where the hands come in handy! On the pumping out of the land of what will quickly bring money upstairs.

And airplanes are a whim.

It is very disappointing that seventy people died in our plane. And no less offensive will be the forthcoming search for a switchman on whom it will be possible to blame everything. Well, you remember, as in the case of the storekeeper at KBCH, it was.

There will be no sense from these searches. Just because nobody needs it.

And in order for the airspace of our country to be filled not with “Boeing” and “Airbus”, but with “Ilyushin” and “Tupolev”, you need only two things.

The first. Desire at the top for this to happen.

The second. Worthy wages to those who will do all this. Engineers, craftsmen, workers. But not the boys "effective."



For now - once again condolences. An-148, which claimed so many lives, was not a bad plane. And they collected his normal working hands.

He just was not needed twice. And at home, in Ukraine, and in Russia, which refused him.

However, this is the case with almost all civil aviation projects. No wonder.

Information sources:
https://otzovik.com/review_4779049.html
https://www.airlines-inform.ru/about_airline/an-148/
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  1. Black joe
    Black joe 12 February 2018 07: 09
    +16
    I feel sorry for people
    Very
    Antonov - name, good company
    It’s a pity that they brought
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 February 2018 08: 17
      +4
      Condolences to the people of Russia and to all those close to the dead ...
      Quote: Black Joe
      Antonov - name, good company
      It’s a pity that they brought

      As if there was no malicious intent in this disaster, if indeed the plane had already had an engine fire in the very first minutes of the flight, then we had to figure out a lot what caused this ...
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 12 February 2018 09: 11
        +40
        As if there was no malicious intent in this disaster, if indeed the plane already had an engine fire in the first minutes of the flight, then we need to figure it out a lot, - svp67

        Angry intent was already first liquidation of a single civilian carrier - the Soviet Aeroflot.
        Everything else: the disaster, the collapse of civil aviation, as a system, followed by the destruction of mass civil aircraft and so on. - These are the consequences of criminal intent of state leaders. For what purpose was this done? To please the West to expand its market? For your own accelerated enrichment? No matter.
        And this tendency in the country's leadership towards civil aviation does not change. From catastrophe to catastrophe without any serious organizational conclusions. "Rogozins" they rule, and people are dying. And this, unfortunately, will continue.
        Sorry for the people, grief at their loved ones. The bright memory of the dead and sympathy to the relatives of the dead.
        1. kaschey
          kaschey 12 February 2018 09: 31
          +14
          You think correctly, dear.)
          I completely agree with you.
          But unfortunately, with this power, there can be no other.
          Cut and razderban steers.
          .
        2. shuravi
          shuravi 12 February 2018 10: 16
          +15
          Quote: vladimirZ
          As if there was no malicious intent in this disaster, if indeed the plane already had an engine fire in the first minutes of the flight, then we need to figure it out a lot, - svp67

          Angry intent was already first liquidation of a single civilian carrier - the Soviet Aeroflot.
          Everything else: the disaster, the collapse of civil aviation, as a system, followed by the destruction of mass civil aircraft and so on. - These are the consequences of criminal intent of state leaders. For what purpose was this done? To please the West to expand its market? For your own accelerated enrichment? No matter.
          And this tendency in the country's leadership towards civil aviation does not change. From catastrophe to catastrophe without any serious organizational conclusions. "Rogozins" they rule, and people are dying. And this, unfortunately, will continue.
          Sorry for the people, grief at their loved ones. The bright memory of the dead and sympathy to the relatives of the dead.


          Malicious intent happened in the 1991 year (even though work on it began earlier) when the USSR collapsed and headed for capitalism. Then only the consequences.
          Now just remember how Aeroflot worked before:

        3. Lexus
          Lexus 12 February 2018 12: 37
          +5
          I remember how joyfully they screamed about the "advanced" SaM-146 engine, which is put on the "Superjet". In fact, it was created on the “platform” of the already discontinued CFM-56, and not the latest CFM LEAP at that time. "Vinaigrettes" from budget components and "second-hand" from around the world will always be the key to high accident rate.
          1. Zhelezyakin
            Zhelezyakin 12 February 2018 16: 24
            +10
            Do not guess. The superjet flew in 2008, and LEAP was the first launch in 2013. This is a deep modernization of the CFM-56 and was created by LEAP for its subsequent replacement.

            Mourn the loss, the deepest condolences to the families of the dead!
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 12 February 2018 16: 33
              +1
              It’s not a matter of guessing, but the fact that work on LEAP has already been carried out, it would be possible to build on them in order to adopt a competitive product, and not a product of the “processing” of the project of the early 80s.
              1. Zhelezyakin
                Zhelezyakin 13 February 2018 13: 24
                +1
                I do not understand your claims that Male, that LEAP is a modernization of CFM-56. How one differs from the other, I can not judge. By the way, I remember from the institute that when creating a new engine ALWAYS are based on the design and experience of previous products. just as a jet engine having in its design more than 20% of the novelty is not realistic to bring. I mean, both engines are products of the “processing” of the project of the early 80s. Well, so does the light converge on LEAP?
                And what does CFM-56 really not suit you? A normal, reliable engine, with moderate performance, even today. Has an excellent track record and raid ...
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 13 February 2018 13: 45
                  0
                  We need a competitive domestic aircraft engine that does not depend on the “mercy” of Western “partners”. SaM is not. That's all! hi
                  1. Zhelezyakin
                    Zhelezyakin 13 February 2018 16: 56
                    +2
                    Quote: lexus
                    SaM is not. That's all!

                    Just like LEAP itself)))
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 13 February 2018 17: 06
                      +1
                      He is still a generation more modern. With a reasonable approach to cooperation, it was possible to get hold of some technologies. The Chinese did just that. hi
        4. yehat
          yehat 12 February 2018 13: 43
          +4
          single carrier - these are guarantees
          but they broke it so that the invisible hand of the market removed everything that does not bring easy profit.
          so that there are no dozens of local low-profit airlines
          1. Adequate
            Adequate 12 February 2018 13: 55
            +4
            a single carrier is a monopolist and he also sets prices accordingly. competition is the only sound way
            1. yehat
              yehat 12 February 2018 14: 05
              +8
              you turn everything upside down.
              monopoly - does not mean bad at all. but you need to understand that if there is a monopoly, you need control. as he was at Aeroflot.
              1. Valery Ivanov_2
                Valery Ivanov_2 12 February 2018 16: 34
                +1
                So you respected bourgeois want to be supporting the monopoly. You want poverty and death for people ...
                1. yehat
                  yehat 12 February 2018 16: 53
                  +2
                  and the "market" and the monopoly bear their costs
                  There is no perfect choice. It is necessary to clearly understand what these costs are and to choose accordingly. I do not support anything, but potentially a monopoly allows us to achieve better performance.
              2. Petr1968
                Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 10
                +2
                Quote: yehat
                monopoly - does not mean bad at all. but you need to understand that if there is a monopoly, you need control. as he was at Aeroflot.

                You turn everything upside down. And where is control and monopoly? The whole world flies according to uniform rules. If you hadn’t been banned from Google, you would have easily found countries with a low accident rate and made sure that there are no monopolies there. By the way, the most high-profile accidents with victims we had were in the USSR (we do not take the recent board over the Senai, there is a terrorist attack).
                And the price DIRECTLY depends on whether you are a monopolist or not. Learn the economy, comrade.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 12 February 2018 18: 32
                  +2
                  you need to learn this. I was already embarrassed to teach her.
            2. aviator65
              aviator65 12 February 2018 18: 42
              +10
              Quote: Adequate
              a single carrier is a monopolist and he also sets prices accordingly

              Aeroflot was a STATE company. Accordingly, prices were regulated by the state. There was a debugged system, MAP, MGA, GosNIIGA and a lot of other organizations and industries under state control worked for Aeroflot.
              As for the prices .. Compare what were the opportunities to fly, for example, from Khabarovsk to Moscow among citizens then, with "monopoly", and now, with competition.
              1. yehat
                yehat 12 February 2018 19: 10
                +4
                the comparison is not entirely correct - our cost structure has changed a lot
                then people didn’t pay for loans, the Internet, there weren’t many other expenses,
                and there was a number of contrary high prices.
                In addition, the stratification of incomes must be taken into account.
                therefore, ticket prices are difficult to compare.
                but if you take stupidly the opportunity to buy a ticket Vladik-Moscow, the difference is about one and a half to two times in favor of the USSR.
        5. svp67
          svp67 12 February 2018 15: 02
          +3
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Angry intent was already first liquidation of a single civilian carrier - the Soviet Aeroflot.

          A single air carrier is not an option now. Alas. Just look at the single passenger carrier on the railway. But what I agree with is the fact that the state airline must work together with private companies, in particular, the State can “gently” regulate both prices and exercise control over this area of ​​activity and, of course, the state should participate more actively in the leasing business to promote Russian-built aircraft
          1. yehat
            yehat 12 February 2018 17: 03
            +5
            the malicious intent was that Aeroflot left a whole list of guarantees - from ticket prices, quality requirements to supporting flights, including those not popular
            For Luxembourg, the issue of flight spectrum is not so important, but for our country, logistics is a matter of survival. Therefore, the narrowing of Aeroflot's service is a malicious intent.
            In passing, Aeroflot was a major customer for the aviation industry, and it was also a fad.
            After the collapse of Aeroflot, our aviation orders became zero.
            And this was part of the destruction of the state of the USSR.
            I could support aeroflot tearing, but without losing functionality.
          2. Petr1968
            Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 13
            0
            Quote: svp67
            But what I agree with is the fact that the state airline should work together with private companies, in particular, the State can “softly” regulate both prices and exercise control over this area of ​​activity

            And now does the state exercise control? And someone forbids flying only Aeroflot?
            1. yehat
              yehat 12 February 2018 18: 33
              +4
              now there is no control, there is only its appearance.
              1. Petr1968
                Petr1968 13 February 2018 15: 21
                0
                Quote: yehat
                now there is no control, there is only its appearance.

                Why publicly say stupid things?
          3. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ 12 February 2018 17: 21
            +3
            A single air carrier is not an option now. - svp67

            In my opinion you are wrong. Such a complex complex as civil aviation in Russia with its thousands of distances, remote cities and towns, cannot exist without a single system-organizational air fleet.
            Civil aviation Russia should include a whole range of issues from training and education of flight personnel, ordering the entire line of aircraft / helicopter fleet from aircraft manufacturers, their competent operation and maintenance, to the construction and operation of the farthest small airfield.
            This system should regulate the availability of transportation prices due to the redistribution of their cost from profitable to unprofitable, which is full with us "where you can fly by plane."
            There will be a single carrier, it will begin to accumulate financial resources for the purchase of an aircraft fleet from aircraft factories. Everyone will work for one goal, so that Russia has its own civilian air fleet. We will not have a single air carrier, we will not have our own integrated fleet, and we will fly on used western junk.
            1. yehat
              yehat 12 February 2018 19: 13
              +2
              As for the accumulation of funds, monopoly / enlargement is not necessary, but only subject to a healthy financial environment, when it is easy and not expensive to attract long-term investments. Therefore, a monopoly is now the only way to ensure transportation normally. But not an absolute monopoly - there can be many sane methods of cooperation.
            2. Petr1968
              Petr1968 13 February 2018 15: 24
              0
              Quote: vladimirZ
              In my opinion you are wrong. Such a complex complex as civil aviation in Russia with its many thousands of distances, remote cities and towns, cannot exist without a single system-organizational air fleet

              In the USA, do you know your theory of long distances and the monopolist? And what, for example, did S7 or UTair not please you?
              1. yehat
                yehat 13 February 2018 17: 15
                +2
                we have all airlines now working under stress
                it is exhausting working conditions for staff, and the state of the park
                it is not normal. and an increase in the number of incidents in the air is a direct consequence of this stress.
        6. Petr1968
          Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 07
          +2
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Angry intent was already first liquidation of a single civilian carrier - the Soviet Aeroflot.

          How would Aeroflot go nowhere. Fly Aeroflot, someone forbids?
          1. yehat
            yehat 12 February 2018 19: 15
            +4
            there is only one name left - the company has completely changed.
            1. Petr1968
              Petr1968 13 February 2018 17: 56
              0
              Quote: yehat
              there is only one name left - the company has completely changed.

              It is clear that everything that is not being done in our country is all for the worse, right?))
              You just do not have enough sun in the winter?)))
              But in fact. Aviation is developing towards security and towards the economy. There is a choice of which company to fly, there is a choice of time and date. Thanks to the West, they gave really good planes ... I feel sorry for people flying on our soviet planes (((
              1. yehat
                yehat 14 February 2018 11: 24
                +2
                if it weren’t for the west, we would have had our new planes, and no worse
                il-62, tu-154 were masterpieces at the time
              2. 73bor
                73bor 15 February 2018 01: 30
                +1
                Our soviet planes did not crash due to the freezing of the speed sensor, and by modern standards this is not a fatal malfunction, and in terms of economics this is all crap, even the IL-86 is actually almost flush with the Boeing 707 simply because of the higher flight speed and no one wants to admit it, everyone piously believes in a twin-engine scheme, and you can continue to pray to the West!
        7. Stas157
          Stas157 12 February 2018 17: 53
          +7
          Quote: vladimirZ
          these are consequences of the criminal intent of state leaders. ....
          And this trend is in the leadership of the country ..... From catastrophe to catastrophe without any serious organizational conclusions. "Rogozins" rule, and people perish.

          I agree with you in everything, except for the conclusion. The Rogozins have only recently arrived, and this plane and the mess in the country have nothing to do! It’s not the Rogozins who rule, but Putin and Co. They are the Rogozins and put in those places. The Rogozins themselves do not decide anything. And Chubais did not appear on his own, and Medvedev, and Serdyukov, and Ulyukaev, and Kudrin .....
          Soon the election, go through and cast your vote for the right person.
          1. yehat
            yehat 12 February 2018 19: 17
            +4
            cast your vote for the right person

            there are no such in the list.
            1. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 13 February 2018 05: 52
              +2
              cast your vote for the right person
              there are no such in the list. - yehat

              Your untruth! There is one on the list, and this is Pavel Grudinin - the representative of the left forces of Russia, the Communist Party and the Union of the Left Front. He is a representative of the people, expressing his views on a socially just state.
              Grudinin does not go to the polls by himself; he represents the union of leftist forces, this is his strength. And so as not to write about him and his accounts and the "oligarchic" present - this is nonsense and flake. I remember among the Bolshevik Communists there were also enough immigrants from the nobility, capitalists, priests, but they all defended the interests of the working people.
              1. yehat
                yehat 13 February 2018 10: 22
                +1
                can you name at least 1 item out of 20 in his “program”, which expresses the aspirations of the people? all items are empty slogans. Moreover, when he talks on the air, it is clearly visible that there is nothing behind the slogans, no ideas. They are only for populism.
                I’ll say more, in 5 points he is lying straight, because offers what cannot be done in 1 presidential term.
                1. vladimirZ
                  vladimirZ 13 February 2018 11: 26
                  +1
                  can you name at least 1 item out of 20 in his “program”, which expresses the aspirations of the people? - yehat

                  Yes please. Let us first consider the basis of the P. Grudinin Program - the Communist Party program "10 steps to a decent life."
                  1. The people are the master of the country.
                  The riches of Russia should serve the people, not a handful of oligarchs. We are for the nationalization of the oil and gas industries. This measure alone will increase treasury revenues by more than 3 trillion rubles.
                  Nationalization of key banks, electric power, railways, communication systems, defense industry enterprises will create a powerful public sector of the economy. This will reduce Russia's dependence on foreign capital. ...
                  Nationalization will give planned character to the development of the country, expand its competitive opportunities in the world. ... For the economy to work steadily and efficiently, tactical and strategic planning must become the norm. For this, an appropriate state body must be created.
                  2. Economically sovereign Russia.
                  Today, the financial system of Russia is tightly connected with the centers of world capitalism. There is no real independence of the country. It is time to restore our economic sovereignty, to defend ourselves against the dictates of the dollar. The Central Bank of Russia needs to be removed from the influence of the US Federal Reserve. He is obliged to serve the development of the domestic economy and the social sphere.
                  State control over the banking system and foreign exchange operations will stop the wild outflow of capital abroad. In recent years, it has become a tool for ruining Russia and robbing citizens. ...
                  We are ready to resolve the issue of Russia's withdrawal from the WTO. For four years of being in its composition, the country's budget has been bled of 800 billion rubles. Indirect losses are estimated at 4 trillion. Russia does not need such a burden.
                  The new government will strengthen the economic sovereignty of the country through the development of small and medium-sized businesses, advanced forms of management. Our anti-crisis plan guarantees the full support of national and collective enterprises. Even under current conditions, they demonstrate high efficiency and expand social protection measures for workers. Their example refutes the liberal myth about the advantages of private ownership of the means of production with its exploitation of wage labor.
                  3. Industry. The science. Technologies.
                  Enough talk about import substitution. It is a shame for our country to occupy 95th place in terms of economic development. I am ashamed to have 16 percent of manufacturing in GDP. Its share will be raised to 70-80 percent.
                  Russia needs a powerful modern industry based on the latest discoveries and high technologies. Its most important industries should be: microelectronics, robotics, machine tools. Only then will we survive in a world dominated by global predators. The perseverance of the Communist Party allowed the adoption of the law "On Industrial Policy." It is necessary that he really earned.
                  The industrialization of the 10st century cannot be carried out without the revival of science. The pogrom at the Russian Academy of Sciences became a crime against the future of the country. The deadly pseudo-reform is time to stop. Funding for research by domestic scientists has to be increased significantly. The proportion of organizations engaged in innovative development must be raised from the current 30 to XNUMX percent. It will be an investment tomorrow.
                  4. A developed village is a prosperous and well-fed Russia.
                  The land of Russia is able to feed its population and another 500 million people with selected products. But half of the food is imported today from abroad, often of poor quality. Meanwhile, a third of Russian arable land is overgrown with weeds. In a deep crisis, many agricultural sectors.
                  The food situation threatens national security. It's time to turn the state towards the village. Russia will become well-fed and healthy if it revives large-scale agricultural production and social infrastructure in the village, restores seed and livestock breeding, and breaks the spider networks of resellers that block peasants' access to markets.
                  All this is feasible if two conditions are met. Firstly, to direct at least 10 percent of budget expenditures to support the agricultural industry. Secondly, actively support farmers and farmsteads, rely on large collective farms and cooperation. It has long been proven that such enterprises are more sustainable. They adapt much better to changes in the food market.
                  Communist Party is ready to adopt new Land, Forest, Water codes. We offer a set of measures to improve the environmental situation.
                  5. Credit resources - for the revival of the country.
                  The government’s complaints about the lack of money are a primitive lie. Gold and foreign exchange reserves, funds of the National Welfare Fund and the Reserve Fund - this is 33 trillion rubles. For many years, Russia has been lending to its foreign rivals, feeding Texas and Kansas. It is time to use these funds for your own development.
                  Today, Russia is in 48th place in terms of transport infrastructure. According to the quality of air and water transportation, we are at 87th and 82nd places, respectively. For our big country this is a disaster. That's where the investment is needed!
                  It is urgent to support the regions. Of the 85 regions, only 10 are donors. The rest are entangled in debt. The total deficit of their budgets is about 2,5 trillion rubles. In 55 subjects of the Federation, public debt exceeds half of the approved income. They are not able to fulfill social obligations. We are obliged to help the regions look confidently into the future and develop. Communist Party - for replacing commercial loans with subsidies and subventions from the federal budget.
                  1. vladimirZ
                    vladimirZ 13 February 2018 11: 28
                    +2
                    can you name at least 1 item out of 20 in his “program”, which expresses the aspirations of the people? - yehat

                    Read more.
                    6. Control over prices and tariffs - accelerated development.

                    Last year, food prices jumped more than 20 percent. At the same time, real incomes of the population fell sharply. In terms of living standards, Russia has rolled back to 91st place in the world. Our ranking neighbors are Laos and Guatemala. You can’t live like that! So managing the economy is criminal!
                    The state is obliged to control the prices of essential goods, fuel and medicines. The cost of housing services should not exceed 10 percent of family income.
                    The government is obliged to regulate tariffs for electricity, fuel and transportation. These are the most important factors in the economic development and social well-being of citizens.
                    7. Taxes: equity and efficiency.
                    An ugly tax system has been created in Russia. She serves the moneybags and thieving officials. We suggest gradually eliminating VAT. It leads to a rise in price of domestic products, deprives them of competitiveness and provokes inflation. It is no accident that such a tax did not exist in the USSR and is not in the USA.
                    In recent years, property tax and tax on settlement land have increased many times, the notorious Platon system is being introduced. They hit hard on citizens, small businesses, and agriculture. These requisitions should be abolished immediately.
                    Yes, abolished taxes are a loss to the budget. But there is something to compensate for. The country needs a progressive tax on personal income. It works effectively in the USA and China, in Germany and in France, in many countries of the world. It’s high time for the rich in Russia to fork out. We are prepared to reduce income tax for the poor, and to abolish for the most disadvantaged. These decisions are not only fair, but will also add 4 trillion rubles to the country's budget.
                    A special area is the production and sale of alcohol-containing products. State monopoly is simply necessary here. It will additionally give more than three trillion rubles to the country's budget, and it will protect thousands of citizens from poisoning.
                    In general, the country will have a development budget, not a survival budget.
                    8. People are the main value of a power.
                    The authorities cynically violate the Constitution, according to which Russia is a social state. In fact, an extremely dangerous split took place in the country. Ten percent of the population captured almost 90 percent of national wealth. How is this paid? The fact that some are fattening, and most citizens are barely making ends meet. There is an attack on their labor and pension rights, on education and health protection.
                    Popular patriotic forces will restore justice. We will stop the destructive "optimization" of the social sphere. The system of preschool education will work again. The availability and high quality of secondary and higher education will be guaranteed. We will revive the system of vocational education and restore the prestige of technical and pedagogical universities.
                    A law on the "children of war" will be adopted immediately. People deprived of Hitler’s childhood have every right to a special status, additional payments, free travel in city and suburban transport, annual medical examination.
                    In a rich, big and cold country, the right to housing is the right to a normal life. The state is obliged to be responsible for the construction of social housing and the state of household infrastructure. Wild requisitions from the population for the overhaul of housing and communal needs will be canceled.
                    The government is obliged to improve the standard of living in the country. The Communist Party proposes to legislatively ban the adoption of decisions that exacerbate social inequality. At 7 percent of the GDP will go to science, education and health. We guarantee young people the first workplace and other forms of support. Particular attention is given to children and mothers, the disabled and the elderly. The necessary package of laws is ready.
                    9. A strong country - a safe life.
                    In the last parliamentary elections, the Communist Party insisted on a new foreign policy. Today, much has been done in this direction. But the ring of NATO military bases around Russia is getting stronger, the sanctions and the persecution of our compatriots are getting tougher.
                    We demanded to strengthen the country's defenses and stop Serdyukovsky pogrom in the army. The authorities made a number of conclusions, but took under the protection of the minister-destroyer.
                    We stood for accelerated rapprochement of Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Since January 2015, the Eurasian Economic Union has been launched. But the omissions of the Russian authorities helped Bandera reign in Kiev.
                    Russia needs an authoritative, professional Government of public trust, which will strengthen national security, strengthen the country's position on the world stage, and guarantee its sovereignty. The combat readiness of the Armed Forces and the authority of military service should be significantly increased. Particular attention - information technology security. It is necessary to fully promote the rapprochement of the fraternal peoples of the USSR, expand cultural programs and protect our compatriots abroad.
                    The state is obliged to serve people. It is important to increase the efficiency of management: to support the self-organization of the people, to strengthen control over the activities of officials, to include a mechanism for recalling deputies who violate election promises. The election of judges, members of the Federation Council, and heads of local self-government must be in effect.
                    Corruption and crime are a threat to the security of the country and its citizens. Communist Party - for decisive measures to suppress them. Those guilty of major economic crimes should not only be in prison, but also answer with their property.
                    10. A country of high culture.
                    The multinational culture of the peoples of Russia is the foundation of its spiritual revival, its pride and historical heritage. A truly popular government will not allow people to burn out the souls of anti-Sovietism, nationalism and Russophobia. It will protect citizens from immorality, vulgarity and cynicism.
                    It is necessary to create conditions when everyone can save and increase cultural achievements: writers and composers, cinema, higher educational institutions and state media. The authorities are obliged to surround with care museums, theaters, art galleries, philharmonic societies, cultural centers, libraries and archives. We will do everything so that the Russian hinterland ceases to be a cultural ghetto.
                    The spiritual and moral health of a nation must be combined with its physical development. Particular attention is paid to children and youth creativity, physical education and sports. All-round support - to the talents of Russia.
                    1. vladimirZ
                      vladimirZ 13 February 2018 11: 29
                      +2
                      can you name at least 1 item out of 20 in his “program”, which expresses the aspirations of the people? - yehat

                      Read more.
                      Well and further in the Program, measures for the social revival of state obligations are specified:
                      1. Labor guarantees
                      Restoration of guarantees for labor and an 8-hour working day, providing people with work and a decent salary. The minimum wage will be 25000-30000 rubles. A labor man will earn worthy, have a decent rest and restore his strength. We will return youth employment guarantees. Graduates of state universities will receive a guaranteed first job. Large-scale retraining and advanced training programs will be launched.
                      2. Free medicine and education
                      The destruction of the social sphere will be stopped. We guarantee the free and quality of secondary and higher education and medical services. We will return the annual free medical examination. We will set the standards for financing science, education and healthcare - at least 7% of GDP for each industry. The state will bear all the costs of treating seriously ill people, especially children. Physical culture and sport will become the property of the people, the most important means of strengthening the health of the nation.
                      3. Protection of motherhood and childhood
                      Motherhood and childhood will receive all possible support. We will restore the system of preschool education, guarantee a place for the child in kindergarten and in the extended day group at school. The reality will be the development of mass children's sports, free clubs and creative studios. We will equate the monthly child allowance to the cost of living of the child. The payment of the monthly allowance will increase from one and a half to three years. The state will subsidize the production of children's goods.
                      4. A decent pension
                      Citizens are worthy pensions. We will immediately pass a law on the "children of war." Keep the current retirement age. We will return the indexation of pensions to working pensioners. We will cancel the decreasing coefficient of 0,54 for military pensioners. We guarantee an average old-age pension - at least 50% of the average salary.
                      5. Affordable housing.
                      We guarantee mass construction of quality and affordable housing. We introduce the provision of apartments or houses for young families, the elimination of dilapidated and emergency housing. We’ll expand the massive construction of housing at cost and providing it to families with children in installments, without usurious interest. Mortgage rates will be reduced to 3-4%. Large and young families will receive an interest-free targeted loan for a period of 30 years. With the "sealing" building will be over.
                      In the field of government:
                      1. Fair trial
                      A fair trial will be on the side of the law, citizen and society, not the oligarchy. We guarantee the real independence of the court and investigative bodies from executive authorities, ensure the election of judges, extend the jurisdiction of jury trials in cases of "extremism", under the 282nd "Russian" article, on corruption crimes of senior officials. Innocently convicted patriots of the Fatherland will be released and rehabilitated. Similarly, ordinary "swamp" inmates - unlike provocateurs, false witnesses and organizers of illegal actions.
                      2. Democracy and popular representation
                      Restoration of the system of democracy and popular representation. We will return the right to referenda on the most important issues to the people. Parliament will not be an obedient puncher of laws drafted from above, but an assembly of people's representatives. His competence will be expanded. The president will be controlled and accountable to the people and parliament. The procedure for impeachment will be simplified. No one will have the right to be president for more than two terms of 4 years in a lifetime. The Supreme State Council will be established, without the approval of which no fundamentally important decision of the President of the country can be adopted. Elections at all levels will become truly equal and free, with a tough suppression of any violations and fraud during the debriefing.
                      3. Good governance
                      Improving the quality of public administration. We will raise the responsibility of the president for the formation of the cabinet, and the responsibility of the government for their actions. The approval of the composition of the government will take place in the State Duma. Nominations for all ministerial posts will be publicly substantiated by the president. The Central Bank will earn as a controlled and accountable government body motivated by industrial development. The Accounts Chamber will become the highest and truly independent supervisory authority. The suppression of corruption not in words but in practice will give both an economic and moral-political effect.
                      These are concrete and quite realistically feasible steps for the benefit of the people that will be carried out by Pavel Grudinin with his team.
                  2. yehat
                    yehat 13 February 2018 12: 25
                    +1
                    stop spamming, just call a number.
                    point 1
                    The riches of Russia should serve ... We are for nationalization

                    but if you think for at least a second, you will see that he offers to nationalize where the state already has control

                    and all the points of his program to test the dummy !!!
                    1. vladimirZ
                      vladimirZ 13 February 2018 14: 46
                      +2
                      Ha ha ha This is where the state has control? At GAZPROM or ROSNEFT, where Miller and Sechin have millions of wages per day?
                      The composition of the board of PJSC ROSNEFT with Gerhard Schroeder (Germany) is headed by 11 people, from Russia only 4, including Sechin. Russia's share in ROSNEFT is 50% + 1 share.
                      In "GAZPROM" - "wealth of Russia", the share of Russia is 50, 2%.
                      The most powerful gas / oil production campaigns half work for someone else’s uncle from abroad.
                      Yes, nominal control, it seems, is Russian, and then not everywhere, but these are not state campaigns. Joint-stock companies with a minimum share of profit for the state. So with all the others.
                      All points of the Grudinin Program are not empty, they are real if there is a will to execute them, and Grudinin can fulfill it by working in a national enterprise, where he created a powerful block of social programs for the people.
                      But Putin doesn’t have a program, before there were some promises that were not fulfilled, and now he is looking at what point of “development” he is at. And Russia is under Putin’s leadership in a long-term economic crisis, when there is “no money” for the people and state needs, but to enrich the friends of the oligarchs, there is always money, including money formed from extortion from ordinary people, from the same truckers in their pockets Rotenbergs, for example.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 12 February 2018 14: 11
        0
        At the moment, VASO is completing the formation of a multi-year production plan, starting in 2018, with the prospect of achieving economic efficiency by 2022.

        -a reason is simple - see my "flood for a banker" (ms21) about a single "ideological master" if not a banker. then an official.
        THE LIFE OF AVIATION (AIRCRAFT) LIFE SHOULD BE MONITORED FROM ONE CENTER
        Ustinova or Kosygin with Ryzhkov are not present.
    2. 210ox
      210ox 12 February 2018 11: 46
      +4
      "First. The desire above is for this to happen.
      The second one. Decent salary for those who will do all this. Engineering, craftsmen, workers. But not the boys "effective." "With this power, neither the first nor the second will be ..
      Quote: Black Joe
      I feel sorry for people
      Very
      Antonov - name, good company
      It’s a pity that they brought
    3. 73bor
      73bor 15 February 2018 01: 18
      +1
      But I don’t feel sorry for Antonov’s company, I’m sorry for Tupolev’s company, and Ilyushin and Yakovlev, all our developments were wrapped up as unnecessary trash, the Saratov aircraft factory was destroyed to the ground, in the USA with a smaller territory, one and a half thousand airfields, and we have a little more than 200, complete nonsense!
  2. igor1981
    igor1981 12 February 2018 07: 15
    +3
    Roman, as always, is right. Very sorry for the dead people.
  3. Just a man
    Just a man 12 February 2018 07: 36
    +14
    One of the most serious problems of modern life is the triumph of the gorlopans. Someone that is meaningless in life will say or lay out its “truth” on the Internet, and the universal battle of discussions of this dummy begins. Especially annoying are the useless statements in principle of worthless people from the country's "elites" or deputies. Any problems require a systematic in-depth and comprehensive analysis, research. For example, in law enforcement and law enforcement agencies, based on guidance documents, annual reviews and analyzes of areas of activity are defined. Where not only a voluminous and systematic analysis of the problem is done, but also mandatory recommendations and instructions are given to eliminate shortcomings and make changes to the methodology for solving problems. Unfortunately, at the level of our government, there are almost no such documents, and which are usually all end with a conclusion. - it is necessary to privatize and raise the retirement age
    1. Don Analyst
      Don Analyst 12 February 2018 14: 22
      0
      In accordance with the ternary number system, the set of charges of each individual came into resonance with the total number of passengers.
      Accept condolences ...
      1. Just a man
        Just a man 12 February 2018 14: 58
        +4
        What missed a shot?
  4. bandabas
    bandabas 12 February 2018 08: 08
    +11
    "First. The desire above is for this to happen.
    The second one. Decent salary for those who will do all this. Engineering, craftsmen, workers. But not the boys are “effective.” “This is precisely the top that the“ defective boys ”are“ working on ”for neither the first nor the second.
  5. groks
    groks 12 February 2018 08: 32
    +5
    Vaso is now in a zombie state. It seems to move a little, but the losses are colossal. Accordingly - s / n no.
    148 was problematic from the start. They said that our details are poorly joined with ours. But this is hardly the problem in this case. Here was a message that the PIC refused to de-ic. Could this be possible? And they listened to him? Should the economy be economical (s)?
    1. bane's jacket
      bane's jacket 12 February 2018 08: 38
      +4
      Quote: groks
      Here was a message that the PIC refused to de-ic. Could this be possible? And they listened to him? Should the economy be economical (s)?

      This plane made the third or even fourth flight of the day. He stayed on the ground for a short time before the next flight. So why process it for the fifth time? This is a common practice.
      1. groks
        groks 12 February 2018 10: 48
        +3
        Even the tenth. EAF does not stay on the plane for days. Then from which console a piece of ice was blown off and into the engine.
        1. bane's jacket
          bane's jacket 12 February 2018 11: 31
          +3
          Quote: groks
          Even the tenth. EAF does not stay on the plane for days. Then from which console a piece of ice was blown off and into the engine.

          Those. you want to say that refusing anti-icing is not the first time a day is a violation and not a normal practice, right?
          1. groks
            groks 12 February 2018 14: 08
            +1
            Yes. In the car it will be enough to wipe the glass with an anti-freeze once and ride all day?
            1. bane's jacket
              bane's jacket 12 February 2018 16: 32
              +1
              Quote: groks
              Yes. In the car it will be enough to wipe the glass with an anti-freeze once and ride all day?

              What does it mean to wipe the glass with an anti-freeze?
              1. groks
                groks 12 February 2018 16: 51
                +3
                How else to explain? The plane was treated with a coolant. These are usually spirs, glycols. They dissolve snow / ice, absorb moisture and prevent new ice from forming for some time. Already after one take-off, there will be no traces of POG on the plane. Part leaked with water, part dried.
                1. bane's jacket
                  bane's jacket 13 February 2018 07: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: groks
                  How else to explain? The plane was treated with a coolant. These are usually spirs, glycols. They dissolve snow / ice, absorb moisture and prevent new ice from forming for some time. Already after one take-off, there will be no traces of POG on the plane. Part leaked with water, part dried.

                  Let's say it again: if an airplane makes several flights a day, then before each new flight must it be treated with an “anti-freeze”? If they don’t do this, is that a violation?
                  1. groks
                    groks 13 February 2018 07: 43
                    +1
                    Yes. This is a violation in these conditions. Minus and rainfall.
      2. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 12 February 2018 20: 09
        +2
        Quote: bane jacket
        .. why process it for the fifth time? This is a common practice.

        I beg you, don’t say that you don’t know anything, please
        1. bane's jacket
          bane's jacket 13 February 2018 07: 28
          0
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          Quote: bane jacket
          .. why process it for the fifth time? This is a common practice.

          I beg you, don’t say that you don’t know anything, please

          Maybe enlighten?
          1. groks
            groks 13 February 2018 07: 42
            +1
            Maybe enlighten?
            Yes, how much can you already? Why then process it at all? Watered once at the factory and good.
          2. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 15 February 2018 03: 29
            +2
            Quote: groks
            Maybe enlighten?
            Yes, how much can you already? Why then process it at all? Watered once at the factory and good.


            Quote: bane jacket
            ..Can enlighten?

            You respected groks don't listen, he's kidding lol
            De-icing / anti-icing, if necessary, is done before each departure according to the situation, then a lot of theory and practice. They don’t think so.
            I’ll add on my own: the forum is like a discussion, not a banter, you’ll excuse me for being straightforward ..
            1. bane's jacket
              bane's jacket 15 February 2018 09: 43
              +1
              Quote: Pete Mitchell

              De-icing / anti-icing, if necessary, is done before each departure according to the situation, then a lot of theory and practice. They don’t think so.

              So I'm talking about too. It is done as necessary and not the treatment of life support before the departure of the aircraft is not necessarily a violation. I doubt that a person, when driving in the winter in a car, pours a defroster five times a day into a keyhole.
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 15 February 2018 10: 31
                +2
                Quote: bane's jacket
                in the winter by car, five times a day pours a defroster into the keyhole

                Probably not:-?
                1. bane's jacket
                  bane's jacket 15 February 2018 13: 16
                  0
                  Quote: Pete Mitchell
                  Quote: bane's jacket
                  in the winter by car, five times a day pours a defroster into the keyhole

                  Probably not:-?

                  I’m sure not. What for?
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 12 February 2018 09: 51
      +4
      Well, on monitoring, he scored 6200 feet - with critical ice, he would have scored 1500 maximum. If you climbed on 6200f it means if there was ice, then it is uncritical.

      He may refuse and that is his right. Not only economics. This is still time - flight delay, loss of space at the start (which means an additional delay).

      As for technology, this is a Type with a funny touch (well, that is, in a day in the world Broilers and Watermelons fly more hours than all commercial Ani 148 / 158 from the beginning of operation). Therefore, there could be a design flaw - which came out. There could be a miscalculation in maintenance (something unimportant broke - we fly on a blue electrical tape, and this caused a breakdown of an important one, etc., or a loss of service due to the lack of necessary replacement parts - this is a huge problem for 148). Maybe in the pilots - most of the broken sides in the world, beat technically fit to continue the flight.
      1. avt
        avt 12 February 2018 11: 34
        +9
        Quote: donavi49
        As for technology - this is a type with a funny touch

        This type spent 500 flight hours per month. So
        Quote: donavi49
        design flaw - which got out.

        Already got out for sure. But it can be like with the An-10A during it. Need expertise. And of course, after the first version ALWAYS considered, it is a sabotage and the second one is a collision in the air. I think the most likely
        Quote: donavi49
        There could have been a miscalculation in maintenance (something unimportant broke - we fly on a blue electrical tape, and this caused a breakdown of an important one, etc., or a service failure due to the lack of necessary replacement parts - this is a huge problem for 148)

        And it’s concrete - the installation of counterfeit parts from the Ruins in the framework of ,, increasing trade ". ,, Saratov" took 6 cars per one run for cannibalism. BUT miraculously managed to restore everything at VASO. That's how the nodes and mechanisms were found. It’s not difficult to guess this “import substitution” in the form of smuggling from the Ruins. The same canoe with the engines. Well, after all, in four years, they haven’t gone through the warehouses of the Ruins with a vacuum cleaner! Well, is it really not clear that with such an outflow of qualified specialists there are already quality NOT WHO WILL GET ANYTHING - POSSIBLE !? And so? Instead of titanium parts, will we use painted aluminum with a tag - ,, zroben u Ukraine "from ,, manufacturer" set ????
        1. Orakul2000
          Orakul2000 12 February 2018 17: 59
          +2
          I will support you in the version with sabotage (terrorist attack). In our press, when we talked about this tragedy, and that there was a sound of an explosion after a recent take-off and the body was very scattered. In the discussion of the article, many also came to the conclusion that it is highly likely that an explosive device would be on board an aircraft.
          My condolences to the families of all the dead.
          Terrible tragedy.
      2. NIKNN
        NIKNN 12 February 2018 14: 09
        +7
        Quote: donavi49
        He may refuse and that is his right. Not only economics. This is still time - flight delay, loss of space at the start (which means an additional delay).

        Perhaps all the same icing and failure of aneroid-membrane devices and sensors (I do not know how everything is organized there). The reason may lie as a consequence of not processing (as a special case). In general, it surprises me to make a decision to process the PIC ... Making a decision on the risk of the price to which people's lives are for a premium, for saving what is normal? You are being rewarded for taking such risks ... fool Yes, those who take such a risk in general should not be allowed into aviation !!! After all, aviation has been writing its laws for more than a century.

        https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraf
        t / ra-61704 # 106596d0
        Walking parameters V and H ..., failure of the aneroid-membrane group of devices (sensors if the AP changed flight parameters) is likely, a conclusion, icing is most likely ... Although in such cases only wait for the IAC investigation.
        There is evidence that before the crash, the aircraft made sharp maneuvers from one height to another: 1700 meters, then 1900, then again 1700 meters ... And this is at the stage when the An-148 was only to steadily gain altitude. What is this talking about? Something happened so over-emergency that the commander, who is obliged to report all the failures "to the ground", did not have a split second to transfer his hand from the helm to the button of the communication transmitter.

        Well, judging by the scatter of the debris, an explosion option suggests itself. I'm afraid this cannot be explained by an engine explosion (well, the blades flew out and poked everything in the way), unless they had torn off the wing and then destroyed it by the air flow ...
        Well, since that first impression ...
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 12 February 2018 20: 39
          +5
          Quote: NIKNN

          Perhaps all the same, icing and failure of aneroid-membrane devices and sensors .. Walk the parameters V and H ..., a failure of the aneroid-membrane group of devices (sensors if the AP changed the flight parameters), a conclusion, icing is most likely ....
          or rejection, but very similar. Wait
          Quote: NIKNN
          In general, it surprises me to make a decision to process the PIC ... Making a decision on the risk of the price to which people's lives are for a premium, for saving what is normal? You are being rewarded for taking such risks ... fool Yes, those who take such a risk in general should not be allowed into aviation !!! After all, more than a century aviation writes its laws with blood ..
          But I don’t agree with this: it is the Commander who decides, and here it’s better to cross ... than not .. In normal companies, the issue of the Captain’s current money is very secondary and there will be no prizes. But if you do not do de-icing / anti-icing, then as the song says: you will not be understood here ..
          Hard week .., patience to everyone
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 13 February 2018 22: 29
          +2
          Quote: NIKNN
          failure of the aneroid-membrane group of devices (sensors if the AP changed flight parameters) is likely, a conclusion, icing is most likely

          It seems to me you are right:
          http://mak-iac.org/rassledovan ... 

13 февраля 2018 
Комиссия Межгосударственного авиационного комитета (МАК) по расследованию катастрофы самолета Ан-148-100В RA-61704 информирует, что в лаборатории МАК была завершена расшифровка данных бортового параметрического самописца и проведён предварительный анализ информации. 

Предварительный анализ зарегистрированной параметрической информации показал, что в ходе всего полета, закончившегося авиационным происшествием, обогрев всех трех приемников полного давления (ППД) находился в выключенном состоянии. Предварительный анализ зарегистрированной информации, а также анализ аналогичных случаев, имевших место в прошлом, позволяют предполагать, что фактором развития особой ситуации в полёте могли стать неверные данные о скорости полёта на индикаторах пилотов, что, в свою очередь, видимо, было связано с обледенением ППД при выключенном состоянии систем их обогрева. 

С целью определения причин выключенного состояния обогрева трех ППД комиссией по расследованию запланированы, в том числе, следующие работы: 

 изучение Технологии работы экипажа с системой обогрева ППД, включая индикацию; 

· схемный анализ систем обогрева ППД на предмет возможных неисправностей и отказов; 

· выкладка сохранившихся фрагментов систем обогрева ППД.
      3. Makarov
        Makarov 12 February 2018 14: 18
        0
        6200? I thought 1800 ... There are open sources about 6200?
        1. faiver
          faiver 12 February 2018 15: 33
          +2
          6200 feet and not meters ...
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 12 February 2018 08: 52
    +4
    The author's message is clear - look who is at the helm (VASO) and draw your conclusions. But it seems to me that the article could have been written in at least 9 days (not to mention 40). Some sediment remains.
    1. groks
      groks 12 February 2018 10: 51
      +1
      It would be better before, not after. And who rules there ... it seems like they re-subordinated recently.
  7. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 12 February 2018 09: 13
    +4
    Much has already been said about the aircraft industry and about the conversation about his death, and the songs have been folded and they no longer laugh at jokes, but he can’t bend everything. Everyone knows about high competition in the market. Our aviation industry is strong only in defense orders ... well, there, where competitors are not allowed. The industry is really at best lying on its side, but is not trying to stand up. It may be enough engineers to always complain about a small salary to shield, maybe it’s enough to talk about the fact that our engineers have cool ideas, but they can’t realize them. Maybe it’s time to admit that in engineering we are a little behind, that when engineers design, they don’t even think that someone will release something from their projects and that God forbid someone will use these things. You look at domestic goods. Why certification in aircraft engines cannot be passed by noise, and when they pass it turns out that in civil aviation it spends a lot of fuel, and if with the engine everything suddenly suffers from normal passenger compartment comfort and maintainability.
    1. Sverdlov
      Sverdlov 12 February 2018 13: 05
      +6
      "Maybe it’s time to admit that in engineering we are a little behind, that when engineers design, they don’t even think that someone will release something from their projects and that God forbid someone will use these things."

      Previously, after university, graduates were driven through production by craftsmen, technologists in workshops with mentors. Here from such guys Engineers turned out. And from hard workers - evening parties that felt metal with their hands. And now they study at the institutes as bosses, they are afraid of production like fire. If they get into the factory, then they can invent this - you will break your head. We have to retrain and retrain. Without practice, an engineer is not an engineer.
    2. yehat
      yehat 12 February 2018 13: 51
      +2
      The industry is really at best lying on its side, but is not trying to stand up. Maybe enough engineers are always complaining about a small salary

      and how to get up?
      due to climate and geography, we traditionally have high costs, plus taxes and borrowed capital (on average 15-20%). As a result, we need a mark-up of at least 60-70% - and this is so far the prime cost. But even after this adventure does not end. In the market, demand goes either for trash or through large kickbacks. Demand is only domestic or free for poor outside friends.
      the supplier network is also problematic. No engines. No electronics. Nifiga no.
      And the government helps only in words and sometimes military orders, which allow not to die, but nothing more.
      1. yehat
        yehat 12 February 2018 13: 53
        +2
        Do you want production to live?
        give it a green light on financing and sales for about 15 years. Then you will have production.
      2. Petr1968
        Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 18
        +1
        Quote: yehat
        the supplier network is also problematic. No engines. No electronics. Nifiga no.

        But his !!! Nefig West feed !!! We will fly on our g *** not !!
  8. donavi49
    donavi49 12 February 2018 09: 44
    +7
    Well, the IAC will find out why it fell.

    Donkey really has big problems:
    1) He is not needed. Well, that is, they bought it either for ridiculous money, or from under a stick for budget money. In federal departments (the main operator), most of the park is standing.
    2) Passing regulations. Spare parts are almost impossible to get. Ukrainian cooperation only with cannibalism from other sides, Russian or wait a very long time, cannibalism or counterfeit. Actually this is the main problem of all current aviation - not from the giants of the market. If you can find any parts on a Busik / Broiler in an urgent time and undergo repairs / regulations, then for others, especially micro-serial, the need for spare parts is an economic disaster (even Surzhik won in Mexico started with the 1 donor board - from which everything was quickly removed, and then put back, as spare parts came, now 4 donor sad , and one of the main features of the project was the service like Busik / Broiler).
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 12 February 2018 11: 13
      +5
      I especially agree with the compensation for the victims. When our Russian court considers moral damage higher than material damage, everything will be fine. When money will go to compensation from the state budget only after the head (s) of the disaster-ridden object are left without pants and so that their children and grandchildren should remain in the grave of life, then everything will fall into place.
  10. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 12 February 2018 11: 50
    +2
    Quote: avt
    Quote: donavi49
    As for technology - this is a type with a funny touch

    This type spent 500 flight hours per month. So
    Quote: donavi49
    design flaw - which got out.

    Already got out for sure. But it can be like with the An-10A during it. Need expertise. And of course, after the first version ALWAYS considered, it is a sabotage and the second one is a collision in the air. I think the most likely
    Quote: donavi49
    There could have been a miscalculation in maintenance (something unimportant broke - we fly on a blue electrical tape, and this caused a breakdown of an important one, etc., or a service failure due to the lack of necessary replacement parts - this is a huge problem for 148)

    And it’s concrete - the installation of counterfeit parts from the Ruins in the framework of ,, increasing trade ". ,, Saratov" took 6 cars per one run for cannibalism. BUT miraculously managed to restore everything at VASO. That's how the nodes and mechanisms were found. It’s not difficult to guess this “import substitution” in the form of smuggling from the Ruins. The same canoe with the engines. Well, after all, in four years, they haven’t gone through the warehouses of the Ruins with a vacuum cleaner! Well, is it really not clear that with such an outflow of qualified specialists there are already quality NOT WHO WILL GET ANYTHING - POSSIBLE !? And so? Instead of titanium parts, will we use painted aluminum with a tag - ,, zroben u Ukraine "from ,, manufacturer" set ????

    This is closer to the truth, most likely counterfeit is to blame
  11. igorra
    igorra 12 February 2018 11: 59
    +2
    There will be no salary. After the increase in the minimum wage, many expected growth, but the "owners" do not want to, there will be no good work. They know how to count money. In the pocket of workers. A new trend has appeared, the other day I learned: contracts with employees are being renegotiated, in them a fictitious reduction in working hours, the salary is the same and the working day is the same. In big cities, of course it’s not everywhere, but in the provinces and in small towns, where there is no work, people will be silent and work.
    1. yehat
      yehat 12 February 2018 14: 11
      +3
      all the dependence of people comes because they have no stocks.
      There is no borrowed inexpensive money and no personal savings. As soon as this changes
      employers cannot be impudent with working conditions.
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. Bumblebee_3
      Bumblebee_3 12 February 2018 13: 54
      +3
      atakan today, 12:12
      And before Syria, when the planes crashed, it was a "otvetka" for the Crimea, or that we won’t give the Kuril Islands to the Japanese. So? Are you sure it was a terrorist attack, like an otvetka?
      1. Petr1968
        Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 20
        0
        Quote: Bumblebee_3
        And before Syria, when the planes crashed, it was a "otvetka" for the Crimea, or that we won’t give the Kuril Islands to the Japanese. So? Are you sure it was a terrorist attack, like an otvetka?

        Do not see trolling, do not inflate nonsense.
        1. Bumblebee_3
          Bumblebee_3 12 February 2018 17: 27
          0
          Petr1968
          Thanks for the tip, buddy!
  13. Berg berg
    Berg berg 12 February 2018 12: 25
    +7
    Aircraft fall because it is heavier than air and always will be. Nothing technically eternal has been created yet, but I want it to be very, very rare! Yes, and it is necessary to solve problems, and not just look for the switchman.
  14. ELEZKIY
    ELEZKIY 12 February 2018 12: 51
    +4
    AN-148, 71 dead. commission created.
    Yes, comrades, I feel sorry for the people!
    and to the question - "why do planes fall?" in my opinion there is an answer. because there is a WAR!
    In Russia, 6300 people die and die EVERY DAY.
    of which 100 people die in road accidents EVERY DAY; no commission established
    160 people die from suicides EVERY DAY; no commission established
    alcohol dies EVERY DAY 1400 people, the commission is not created
    and almost all deaths involve money.
    either their lack of where necessary (flight safety eg.), or someone else's extra earnings (surrogate alcohol, ersatz-tobacco, plastic food).
    each passenger can be provided with an ejection chair (there are probably other means of individual and collective security), but it’s expensive! PROFITS -There will not be !!! as a result, human life is cheaper than money in the world of the golden calf.
    Alas, at this stage of the development of mankind, while someone is cutting the loot, this will, unfortunately, continue, and our state, and ultimately it is all of us - an accomplice in what is happening. and other countries are no better. But once, for a long time, there was a time, in some villages children EVERY DAY drove to school by plane ...
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 12 February 2018 14: 22
      +5
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      each passenger can be provided with an ejection chair, (there are probably other means of individual and collective security),

      Although the occasion is tragic, the occasion itself gave:
      "The pilot looked out into the cabin, gasped, shook, and yanked some lever. Something cracked, slammed and the passenger compartment separated from the plane .... Now they come up with such a device," go down "is called if there’s a fire on board or some other accident, the pilot disengages the cockpit with passengers and it lands by parachute. " (c) Nekrasov "The Adventures of Captain Vrungel", so everything has already been invented long before you.
      So ...
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      But once, for a long time, there was a time, in some villages children EVERY DAY drove to school by plane ...

      Once, a very long time ago, in the villages children went to school on foot, sometimes for 10-12 km. I understand your indignation, but you still need to restrain emotions, otherwise it doesn’t sound so pathetic as you would like.
      1. yehat
        yehat 12 February 2018 17: 08
        +1
        I heard a story that there was such a flight in Georgia and Chukotka - every day children were taken to school by plane
        and, strangely, no one fell!
        1. Captain45
          Captain45 12 February 2018 18: 28
          +3
          Quote: yehat
          I heard a story that there was such a flight in Georgia and Chukotka - every day children were taken to school by plane

          In Georgia, most likely you can’t make a lot of landings by helicopter, relief, mountains, and in Chukotka it’s easy, just like in Taimyr. The truth is, with our helicopters, we grab schoolchildren along the way for the holidays home to the tundra and back to the boarding school, and the education department specifically orders the boards for schoolchildren on vacation and vice versa. It’s going to go broke in FIG every day, even with the Union, there wouldn’t be enough money to carry fuel every day.
    2. Petr1968
      Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 22
      +1
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      each passenger can be provided with an ejection chair

      To supply with an oxygen cylinder, put on a suit, fasten and hold for many hours in this position ... But what about the plane .. In every car, they fight more !!!
  15. Sverdlov
    Sverdlov 12 February 2018 13: 10
    +5
    We must wait for the results of the investigation.
    In the meantime, we look at "Investigation of air crashes" on national geographies, how people do it.
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 12 February 2018 14: 16
      +2
      I agree. And then here we love all kinds of sofa experts to come forward with revealing articles and announcing the "true reasons." With shouts only in our country this could happen. And before that, when the fleet of domestic aircraft was more screaming: only with domestic aircraft could this happen. And also about the fact that the reason must be sought in the leadership, and not in the airline, but in the top political leadership of the country. From the program you indicated, which I often watch, it is clear that gouging, manufacturing defects and coincidence are more than complete at home. In the last transmission, the Boeing 747-400 nearly crashed due to a broken stub on the steering wheel. And even having a defective part in their hands, they did not immediately understand what the mechanism of the problem was.
  16. Greyjojo
    Greyjojo 12 February 2018 13: 28
    +6
    Or maybe you should wait for the results of the investigation? Before smearing everyone and everything in feces?
    1. Petr1968
      Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 23
      0
      Quote: GreyJoJo
      Or maybe you should wait for the results of the investigation? Before smearing everyone and everything in feces?

      Do not deprive many of the meaning of life, what else to do?
  17. ZuuT
    ZuuT 12 February 2018 13: 58
    +2
    condolences to the relatives of the victims, however, regarding this aircraft - it is very similar to a terrorist attack ...
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 12 February 2018 14: 20
      +1
      And immediately declaring that any other version except theirs is incorrect.
      1. seacap
        seacap 12 February 2018 16: 11
        +2
        Servisinzhener
        Quote: Servisinzhener
        And immediately declaring that any other version except theirs is incorrect.

        I’m not a philologist, it’s just a Soviet education, but as far as I remember, in the Russian language there is no word IKHNEY, but there is THEM, for general information.
        1. Servisinzhener
          Servisinzhener 12 February 2018 17: 13
          0
          The approach when it is not possible to discuss essentially push the grammar also from Soviet education?
    2. NordUral
      NordUral 12 February 2018 19: 23
      +1
      You shouldn’t be so! Discussions are needed. I am also a sofa expert. But there are brains, the ability to read and serve is present. was on TV, I don’t remember the channel, but some central performance of an old and experienced pilot about this incident was central. So he made clear arguments that this was a terrorist attack. Neither fire, nor icing, nor the rest could lead to such an outcome in 4 !!! minutes from take-off. Here is another and this other government is trying to blur.
  19. Antivirus2k
    Antivirus2k 12 February 2018 14: 08
    +4
    No matter how many people talk about “you need to wait for the investigation”, but perhaps you’re completely blind and deaf and don’t see that there are too many and too often to “fall” in Russia. It is clear that we fly a lot, the country is large, but certainly no more than in the same USA or EU countries. And the news about the crash of planes is steadily coming from our territory. I already wrote comments about the real salaries of scientists in our country. From this article it becomes clear that the employees of the most important factories receive the same salary. What do we want? Yes, problems cannot be solved by one increase in salaries; there is a complex of problems. But does anyone see a movement toward solving these problems? Just a little step? Yes there is no movement. We fell to the bottom, like these aircraft, during the time of Yeltsin, now we are slowly rolling downhill during the time of Putin. But the ordinary population is normal, because Ukraine is in a bigger ass and if the "Maidan" happens in Russia, then oh-oh-oh. It's disgusting to look at all this. It hurts and is disgusting. Meanwhile, the country is dying.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Andvigor
    Andvigor 12 February 2018 14: 25
    0
    + 100500!!!
  22. Macross
    Macross 12 February 2018 14: 30
    +1
    It’s time to introduce training hard landing, the second system from fools.
    1. Petr1968
      Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 25
      +1
      Quote: Macross
      It's time to implement, hard landing training, the second system from fools

      Brilliant, as no one had thought of this before ... You found a solution to all the problems !!!! I propose to patent !!!!
  23. Ruby
    Ruby 12 February 2018 15: 46
    +3
    Quote: Macross
    It’s time to introduce training hard landing, the second system from fools.

    Your suggestions for both positions? If we are again talking about ejection seats, take an interest in the weight of such a fighter. Second, answer yourself the question of whether you are ready to sit the entire flight with a five-prong belt fastened to it, and at the same time pay for the ticket five to ten times more from today's level. After all, the weight of the payload, as well as the cost of such a chair, has not been canceled by anyone.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Molot1979
    Molot1979 12 February 2018 16: 04
    +4
    About how, sabotage, war, enemies around, factories perished, the anti-people regime brought to grips the whole country and a particular board in particular. Or maybe everything is easier? Do airplanes crash simply because they have it? The technique breaks down, even relatively new. Or what, in every disaster to look for signs of war and wrecking? And is it just our boards swinging, or, if some Nigerian crashes - is this also a sign of war? And if American? By the way, a lot of them have fallen over these 70 years.
  26. seacap
    seacap 12 February 2018 16: 06
    +1
    I don’t know for sure, and I’m not a great expert in aerodynamics, but somewhere out of my ear I heard that our “non-brothers” who were building a military transport aircraft based on this aircraft (maybe vice versa) had constructive problems with it , when loading and empty, the alignment changed significantly, which greatly complicated the possibilities of piloting it, and therefore the last hope for the possibility of using Antonov’s aircraft to save Antonov’s enterprises collapsed. People are certainly sorry, they are not to blame, which in our society is now a priority among the looters.
    1. Cook
      Cook 12 February 2018 16: 39
      +3
      You would have listened to less nonsense, especially from the edge of your ear. On the topic of the article, why write about those things that you don’t understand due to the fact that you do not work in this industry? What, the state of affairs at VASO, as the cause of the disaster, is this already a proven fact? What has already been proven that an airplane malfunction is its cause? Please recall, among the causes of the latest air crashes, a malfunction or a critical failure of the materiel, when indicated? I believe that any discussion of the causes of the disaster, in the absence of reliable facts, is incorrect, and the appearance of such articles is premature.
      1. Petr1968
        Petr1968 12 February 2018 17: 27
        0
        Quote: Cook
        I believe that any discussion of the causes of the disaster, in the absence of reliable facts, is incorrect, and the appearance of such articles is premature.

        What made you go against your principles and read the article and join the discussion ?????
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 12 February 2018 19: 17
          0
          In my opinion, this article is a smoke screen that hides the true reason - sabotage.
  27. belovur
    belovur 12 February 2018 16: 29
    0
    The case is not the manufacturer! The point is maintenance.
  28. Jarilo
    Jarilo 12 February 2018 17: 10
    +4
    There was an explosion in the air, as evidenced by the large radius of the wreckage of the aircraft, the absence of a fire on the ground, the absence of a funnel and the inability to identify passengers without a genetic examination. The explosion was very powerful, according to eyewitnesses - "the earth shuddered." In other words, it’s a terrorist attack.
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 14 February 2018 22: 06
      0
      Strange, why were there no signs of fire? The tanks were full of kerosene! And when they hit the ground, they should not have exploded, but only caught fire when bottled. Because the explosion can only be with incomplete tanks. where there is a gas cavity with kerosene vapor. So the fuel burned out in the air in a falling plane? But there was very little time for falling, like burning! Unclear.
  29. NordUral
    NordUral 12 February 2018 19: 16
    +1
    The article is generally correct. But is it applicable in this crash? Even with one engine, if there was nothing cardinal (such as an explosion on board), he could not fall so rapidly, and even with such an expansion of debris.
    I saw a video of an explosion shot with a camera in a private house, there were no signs of such an expansion.
    Everything is not so simple, it is still simpler than we know and we think it may actually be. And this is regrettable.
    It is a pity for the crew and passengers, a pity for their relatives and friends. It is a pity the whole country, which is in such a peak, undermined back in the distant 70-80s.
  30. PENZA
    PENZA 12 February 2018 19: 53
    +1
    Guys, I work as a taxi driver. Why should I buy only a new car to work in a taxi or until 3-5 years old? And the 138th eight-year-old with deep modernization is considered suitable for transporting people on roads, pah, corridors.
  31. Reader 2013
    Reader 2013 12 February 2018 20: 13
    +3
    And that there with the investigation of TU-154 in Sochi, a couple of years have passed, the results, something is not heard
  32. Reader 2013
    Reader 2013 12 February 2018 20: 18
    0
    Here is a top view of where An went at all.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&
    ; v = _37dKazdAak
  33. panzerfaust
    panzerfaust 12 February 2018 20: 19
    +1
    In general, will someone ever be responsible for the crash? Or there, as in medicine, there are no guilty.
  34. groks
    groks 12 February 2018 20: 21
    +1
    that "falling" in Russia has become too much and too often

    Yes, it falls and explodes in many other countries. Who knows that the shopping center exploded in Canada yesterday?
    But here it happens to us as absurdly as possible and then awkward versions are given from those who should be competent. So, at 154 all the instruments showed nonsense and the whole crew refused to sense organs that they took the reflection of stars for the sky? And terrorists can be trusted in aliens and reptilians.
  35. yawa63
    yawa63 12 February 2018 20: 44
    +1
    Several times I flew with this, this very board - Krasnoyarsk-Igarka and vice versa, our company had a contract with the Saratov Airlines, there was nothing like this plane, I remember a very soft landing. My condolences to the dead.
    1. yawa63
      yawa63 12 February 2018 20: 51
      +1
      The flag of Ukraine is some kind of mistake, thank God - Krasnodar is Russia
    2. Captain45
      Captain45 12 February 2018 20: 56
      +1
      Quote: yawa63
      Several times I flew this, this very board - Krasnoyarsk-Igarka and back,

      Further from Igarka to Vankor? Rosneft?
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 12 February 2018 20: 59
        +2
        Quote: Captain45
        Further from Igarka to Vankor? Rosneft?

        the next board you need to send a list of friends. am
      2. yawa63
        yawa63 12 February 2018 22: 41
        0
        Yes, by helicopter, which unfortunately also sometimes fall - November 2015 and October 2016
        1. Captain45
          Captain45 13 February 2018 21: 59
          0
          Quote: yawa63
          Yes, by helicopter, which unfortunately also sometimes fall - November 2015 and October 2016

          Yes, heard, and even the planes sometimes freeze and then, the shift workers start them from the "pusher", and then put it on the net lol
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. Dmitry Polishchuk_2
    Dmitry Polishchuk_2 13 February 2018 00: 15
    0
    Mourn the dead !!!!
  38. Ruby
    Ruby 13 February 2018 19: 28
    0
    There was information about a possible freezing of LDPE, as a result of a malfunction in the autopilot. Such cases have already been more than once. Suffice it to recall the Airbus crash over the Atlantic.
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 14 February 2018 22: 00
      0
      Well, yes, and immediately accused the pilots that did not turn on the heating! And where is the vaunted automation and locks \ 7
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. kdakda
    kdakda 14 February 2018 11: 07
    0
    It is always very sad when our somalets fall.
  41. Chaos
    Chaos 14 February 2018 21: 39
    0
    Fell, fall and will fall. And so that people do not die, everyone should sit in capsules with parachutes. Expensive, but safer.
  42. kuz363
    kuz363 14 February 2018 21: 57
    0
    The holy work of officials is to blame the pilots. Then for some time it will be possible to sit in an armchair. . And this is clearly seen in the comments of various experts. As well as about the TU-154 near Sochi, supposedly the sky with the sea were confused. The poor can’t justify themselves!
    1. litus
      litus 16 February 2018 00: 58
      0
      why see the plot everywhere? It has long been known how everything happened in Sochi. Technique has nothing to do with it! Exclusively human factor
  43. All the details
    All the details 16 February 2018 00: 18
    0
    I feel sorry for people ... Fact. But the nurse to dissolve such an article is no good. The article is not a case. Why? I answer. The first one. A chiffoner or a box can fly. If you attach suitable engines to them. Unfortunately (just like this, there is no need for la-la) just with engines in Tsarist Russia, in the Soviet Union and in today's Russia there are big problems. Under the tsar for reasons of backwardness, in the Soviet Union due to the lack of understanding of officials and first secretaries. So it turned out that the production of medium and small engines remained in Ukraine. Why, for example, there was a failure with the production and delivery of helicopters. Because in Zaporozhye TV3-117 did. And ANs need Russian engines. Yes, as much as VASO will do the fuselages, without engines they are not needed. There are engines for their SU - Russian, with a variable thrust vector, and now we see how something is being done and is being done with dignity. I predict that now wiseacons will explode ... NOT necessary. It is clear that without modern electronics, materials, etc. there is no airplane. But the main thing in an airplane is the engine. Powerful, lightweight, economical, reliable ... The second thing why the article is snot. Russia is not the USSR. Here is another example. In the USSR, the Gosplan instructed in Almaty to make bodies for IL-114. Great plane for its time. For 1992. The Union collapsed and they just remembered about the medium-range IL-114. Regarding the fact that Kapets, there is no aircraft for domestic airlines for the giant Russia. And those that are are lame old men. They collected the iron that the Kazakhs were lying around, brought, they think. Result: at the first stage, the IL-114 will be for the Air Force IL-112. There’s NO money for everything! Now think about it. If there will be IL-112, then IL-114 will be. And why then Russian Ukrainian AN-148? Well, we won’t pull two at once. Moreover, the IL-114 is more efficient than the AN-148 at such radii - more economical. Because turboprop engines ... These are the things, gentlemen. Of course sorry for the staff and the plant. But objectively, now there is no such opportunity ... Now, if the government had deployed cash flows to develop the necessary industries inside the country, then it would be difficult, but they would start doing business. In the meantime, we invest in American papers ...
  44. litus
    litus 16 February 2018 01: 01
    0
    First of all, planes fall because they are controlled by people, and even design flaws will not even be in the top three reasons for the fall of aircraft.
  45. varakin_54
    varakin_54 16 February 2018 17: 10
    0
    If. God wanted a man to fly, He would give wings. Airplanes crashed, are falling and will fall.
  46. Ruby
    Ruby 17 February 2018 10: 57
    0
    In principle, the picture is clear. It is not sad, but once again the human factor worked. Of course, an official IAC report will follow. But it is already possible to evaluate the situation in one word ....... Points can be filled as you wish. How did a commander with a raid of 5000 hours make a mistake out of the blue? Failure of speed sensors is not even an emergency.