Military Review

Partizan with a misted sight

70



The Latvian military is once again rearming - a contract worth 13 million euros has been concluded for the purchase of army, civilian militia Zemesardze and the State Border Guard of assault rifles.

The German G36, according to the Baltic media, will be acquired from Heckler & Koch GmbH. Defense Minister Raimonds Bergmanis noted that the purchase of assault rifles and other weapons will allow the Armed Forces and Zemessardze to provide modern weapons meeting NATO standards.

With an American store

The piquancy of the situation is that these weapons, which seem to meet NATO standards and conditionally considered modern, have for some time ceased to meet the needs of their users. First of all, the Bundeswehr itself refused G36 - this was already announced in 2015 by the head of the military department of the Federal Republic of Germany Ursula von der Lyayen. “In agreement with the army leadership, it was decided to irrevocably draw the line. After almost using the 20-year-old G36, we want to equip the Bundeswehr with automatic rifles of a new generation, ”the Frau Minister said, noting that the claims are related to the incorrect operation of the aiming complex when the weapon overheats.

Indeed, the Zeiss collimator, which is equipped with a rifle, caused a lot of user complaints. They blamed the device for the tunnel effect - the viewing angle is small and in battle does not allow for normal control of space. The sight is equipped with a special system that provides natural light without batteries. Indoors it is necessary to include it, on what precious seconds are spent. Especially in the turmoil of the battle, you can easily forget about it. In addition, in the rain, the sight will fog up.

The store's latch also causes discontent - it is small and very tight, inconvenient when working in gloves. The shops themselves are made of fairly fragile, especially at low temperatures, plastic. It easily cracks, which in turn leads to a misalignment of the cartridge and delays when firing. Therefore, users prefer not regular, but made of aluminum shops of American manufacture.

Of course, these problems can be eliminated by upgrades performed at the level of military workshops, and they are no basis for abandoning G36. On the main reasons in the Bundeswehr try not to spread. The secrecy is explained simply: 167 of thousands of rifles, which will be withdrawn from the troops, need to be put somewhere. And while there is a hope to sell them to someone - the same Latvia, we must use it.

Previously, Heckler & Koch ran a very aggressive advertising campaign, sparing no expense for PR. Even Hollywood was connected to the conviction of potential consumers that the G36 is the best weapon in the world, since the weapon looks very futuristic. Even the famous American shooting instructor and expert Gabriel Suarez in the book "Tactical carbine" included this rifle among the best, pointing out, however, at its incredibly high price. However, Suarez most likely dealt with a civilian, self-loading version of the rifle, on which the main disadvantages of the device are less noticeable and not so relevant.

Cool in the heat of battle

German military began to express discontent with G36 after its first combat use in Afghanistan. In the 2009 year, when the soldiers of the Bundeswehr were sent to perform "international duty", mass complaints began that the rifles instantly overheat and fail due to jamming. It was reported that after shooting in short bursts of two or three stores, the accuracy of the weapon drops by a third. In 2010, a scandal broke out when German paratroopers were ambushed in Char-Dar. As established by the investigation, at least three soldiers were killed due to the failure of the weapon. The battle was captured in detail by action cameras mounted on the helmets of the soldiers, and everyone saw how one by one the rifles refused, and the paratroopers were forced to wait for them to cool down in order to resume the fire. The enemy, armed with Chinese AK, German fire did not cause serious damage.

Paris Refusal

It was impossible to write off the obvious unsuitability of rifles for the specific conditions of Afghanistan - it turned out that in Western Europe they work only slightly better.

The French Interior Ministry has procured G36 for the police special forces units, in particular for the Brigade anti-criminalite (BAC) staff of the brigade on the fight against crime. It was assumed that the special forces armed with the "best in the world" rifle would be superior to the terrorists who used AK in the Paris terrorist attacks.

It is extremely rare to think of a more benign regime of weapon exploitation than in the police special forces, where it works mainly at the shooting range and the range, on the road and there are no problems with regular cleaning and maintenance. But the French were disappointed. Soon they came to the conclusion: G36, showing quite decent results when shooting single shots, is completely unsuitable for automatic fire due to the rapid drop in accuracy when the barrel is heated and a tendency to failure.

Recall that the transition to the low-pulse cartridge 5,56х45 in Germany and in other countries was associated with a lack of accuracy of assault rifles using the cartridge 7,62х51 when firing bursts. So, in the Bundeswehr, the G36 replaced the G3 7,62х51 (by the way, a fairly reliable rifle). That is, the transition turned out to be meaningless for the German military - instead of advantages, they got a lot of problems. Moreover, the new cartridge was inferior to the old in power. And this is very significant with the massive use of personal protective equipment.

Recoilless machines do not happen

In the 2015 year, after giving up the G36 procurement, the Bundeswehr command ordered the 600 G27P automatic rifles, which were supposed to arm the fighters of foreign missions, for the transition period. That is, those who went to places where they most likely have to use weapons. This fact, which is the actual recognition of the complete unsuitability of a rifle and therefore not too advertised, is the last nail in the coffin of G36.

The inevitable question: why does the Ministry of Defense of Latvia buy a worthless rifle? Moreover, the military doctrine of a small but very proud republic implies a guerrilla war against the aggressor. It is obvious that with a weapon that turned out to be unreliable even for Parisian policemen, you will not be too much atrocious.

By the way in the Latvian warehouses there are still quite reliable AKM and AK-74, which Riga prefers to sell to Ukraine and the Middle East. The fact that this weapon uses a cartridge that is not standardized for NATO is not an obstacle - NATO, Poland, Romania and Hungary still use weapons of Soviet calibers. And in Bulgaria, AK is produced under the patron of NATO 5,56X45 and costs several times cheaper than G36.

You can, of course, assume that the innocent Latvians fell under the spell of the "Hollywood image" G36. However, before the conclusion of such contracts are usually carried out serious and rigorous tests. Yes, and the web to collect sufficient information about this rifle of labor is not.

However, marketers at Heckler & Koch are renowned for their ability to engage and persuade customers not only through aggressive advertising. Actually, it is addressed not so much to the direct buyer as to the public. After all, if you convince taxpayers that they have a “weapon of the future” in front of them, there is much less chance that deputies and journalists will start asking: “Why did you buy this stuff at all? Maybe they got a kickback? "

However, this is exactly what the Latvian journalists suggest. Republican media recall how they asked Minister Bergmanis for what purpose his department purchased the old Stinger MANPADS, powerless against the Russian aviation, with which Latvia is going to fight. Then he replied: “I am not an expert. But they are not only against airplanes. There are helicopters yet. And they are needed to protect their squad, it is a weapon of close action. I think they are very effective, there is no doubt about it. They would not have been produced if they had not been effective. ”

Most likely, a non-expert minister will explain the purchase of G36 in the same way. Moreover, he had already been caught buying optical sights at an overpriced price. Although Bergmanis is not an expert, he understands perfectly well that if Latvia decides to fight with Russia, it will be absolutely indifferent with what the soldiers of the "Homesard" - G36, AKM, M-16, or muskets of the times of John IV are armed with. And if there is no difference, then why not make it so that someone would feel good. For example, Heckler & Koch, the Bundeswehr armament service and the Latvian Minister of Defense?

What is great for a German?

The question is inevitable: what do they want to rearm the Bundeswehr with? The Heckler & Koch 433 is a modular compact assault rifle in 5,56x45mm caliber. The new machine, according to the manufacturer, combines the best aspects of the G36 and HK416 rifles and is positioned as a replacement for the G36.

HK433 is available in six versions, which differ in barrel length. The developers indicate that the new rifle is compatible with the accessories and some elements of the G36, HK416 and AR-15 machine guns (on the basis of which the army M16 and M4 are created). In this case, the arrows, previously used all of the above models, will be able to fully work with HK433, since their key elements (the store eject button, the fuse and the translator of fire) are located at the same places.

Weight HK433 ranges from 3,2 to 3,6 kilogram and depends on the length of the trunk. The machine is completed with regular 30-charging stores of the standard NATO STANAG 4179. The maximum rate of fire is about 700 shots per minute. HK433 is compatible with grenade launchers, including HK269 and GLM / GLMA1.
Author:
Originator:
https://vpk-news.ru/articles/41124
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  1. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 11 February 2018 06: 09
    +12
    The Baltic states, Benderostadt and Georgia have long become a dumping ground for European and American junk. Europeans and Americans honor the traditions of their ancestors: in the 19th century, European and American slave traders bought tens of thousands of slaves from African kings in exchange for decommissioned century-old muskets.
    1. AlexMark
      AlexMark 11 February 2018 08: 21
      +7
      In general, it is strange that Ukraine is still not trying to push them, it is still possible to agree on the supply of ammunition ... I feel soon there will be news and about it wink
      1. Cat
        Cat 11 February 2018 08: 37
        +4
        I can offer another version of the acquisition of such trash by the proud Balts. As mentioned above in any conflict, their mongrel to our bear for one tooth. And so, the insidious Balts will salt even with trophies. Good AK can even be turned into scrap metal, but here! You can’t enter into civil circulation, only to a toy store.
      2. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 11 February 2018 11: 34
        +6
        My regards ! hi A lot has been said about the G36 at many weapon forums. I base my assessment of this “masterpiece” on the basis of the translation of the reviews of the Bundeswehr. As they call this stormtrooper - Shaize!
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 11 February 2018 19: 34
          +4
          pasha hi. I talked like that with a German parachutist, 8 years of service: HK36 - full trash: wedges, leads the barrel, unreliable ..
          Well, Bergmanis was a decent athlete until he got involved in politics: buying all kinds of rubbish for a lot of money, which is buying old English armored personnel carriers to which shells are not made / :-) Who orders music, that girl also dances: it is absolutely clear that Latvia has music doesn't order ..
  2. tracer
    tracer 11 February 2018 06: 28
    +9
    Somehow I twisted the G36 in my hands even before the mass showdown on its reliability. I was surprised at how plastic she was. Even a long picatini rail without a soldered metal frame. Well, he can not be reliable. Then I was still surprised how a serious company printed this bullshit ..
    1. AlexMark
      AlexMark 11 February 2018 08: 24
      +13
      But after all, some 5 years ago, everyone wrote with boiling water from it) It seems to me that the construction itself is not at all bullshit, the reason lies in the search for the maximum reduction in price during production. Even the best weapons can be ditched, if you start to save on everything.
      1. Raccoon
        Raccoon 11 February 2018 11: 15
        +2
        so they saved - all because of the union with the GDR, which required huge financial costs and savings on everything
    2. san4es
      san4es 11 February 2018 09: 16
      +8
      Quote: tracer
      ... a serious company printed this bullshit ..

      ... Defense Minister Thomas de Mezieres, I see he was in a share with H & K.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 11 February 2018 14: 31
        +5
        Sasha, good day. By the way, the character voiced by you is a relative of the last ruler of the GDR, Lothar de Meziere.
        1. san4es
          san4es 11 February 2018 14: 48
          +2
          Quote: Okolotochny
          ... a relative of the last ruler of the GDR, Lothar de Meziere.

          hi ...Hi Aleksey.
          ... It seems to me, they are on the verge of a grandiose rascal bully
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 11 February 2018 19: 06
            +5
            As the saying goes: "I am for any hipish, except for a hunger strike."
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 11 February 2018 06: 32
    +3
    They regret that they sold the same free ones. M-14. Freebie she is, good only in a mousetrap and for the Pied Piper!
  4. Vard
    Vard 11 February 2018 07: 24
    +8
    It is in computer games that their weapons steers ... And in real life, the good old Kalash ...
    1. AlexMark
      AlexMark 11 February 2018 08: 34
      +10
      Pay attention to the bayonet repeat
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 11 February 2018 12: 46
        +2
        What about a bayonet knife?
        1. MORDVIN13rus
          MORDVIN13rus 11 February 2018 13: 38
          +3
          He meant that it painfully looked like a bayonet-knife from AKM.
        2. aws4
          aws4 11 February 2018 14: 29
          0
          exactly from akm
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 12 February 2018 20: 19
            +1
            Quote: aws4
            exactly from akm

            Duc, this is it!
            All these interpretations on the topic of Kalash should be left in favor of the poor.
            AKS is a machine, like a PC, and all these conversations, shadows of doubt, are nonsense. The group-squad, consisting of a grenade launcher, a sniper, two arrows, will not carry different zinc.
        3. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 11 February 2018 14: 31
          +4
          Looks like ours. By the way, his scabbard too, one to one.
      2. 32363
        32363 11 February 2018 17: 11
        0
        Quote: AlexMark
        Pay attention to the bayonet repeat

        so the Germans did not hide it, why invent a bicycle and copied the Soviet bayonet-knife.
        1. AlexMark
          AlexMark 11 February 2018 18: 28
          +4
          Well, they have found the reason why the machine gun works so badly) The Soviet bayonet is to blame for everything laughing And then mount the barrel, ammunition - here he is the hero of the occasion lol
          1. 32363
            32363 11 February 2018 18: 38
            +1
            Quote: AlexMark
            Well, they have found the reason why the machine gun works so badly) The Soviet bayonet is to blame for everything laughing And then mount the barrel, ammunition - here he is the hero of the occasion lol

            Kent was 2 times for 6 months in Afghanistan and did not complain about the G36, a normal machine gun.
        2. aws4
          aws4 11 February 2018 19: 24
          0
          Interestingly, by the way, and the steel blade is the same as in the Soviet)))))))
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 12 February 2018 17: 21
            +4
            In the Soviet Union was very fragile.
            1. aws4
              aws4 12 February 2018 20: 06
              0
              not not compared to the fact that now it is also not so fragile))))))))))))
          2. 32363
            32363 13 February 2018 04: 01
            +1
            Quote: aws4
            Interestingly, by the way, and the steel blade is the same as in the Soviet)))))))

            Soviet ones seemed to be overkill, a clear violation of technology, which was why they were fragile, they broke a lot of them trying to stick them on the floor, right now there is German from AK47, how much throwing nothing happened to him, the bakelite crumbled on the handle a little and everything, steel is pleased.
            this
            1. aws4
              aws4 13 February 2018 18: 31
              0
              not just these bayonets were very much appreciated these are the very first ones ... the stalyuk was good at them
        3. gross kaput
          gross kaput 12 February 2018 21: 25
          0
          No one copied anything, after the unification of Germany and the transition to a single standard, the GDR MPi AK 74Ns did not fit into NATO standards, but the bayonet-knives did not require standardization requirements, realizing that the bayonet was more a tribute to traditions than necessary, it was decided to make the G36 landing under the bayonet MPi AK 74N of the second type, and were equipped with G-36 storage bayonets previously owned by the army of the GDR.
          In general, a completely reasonable and rational decision.
  5. bandabas
    bandabas 11 February 2018 09: 11
    0
    "Republican media recall how they asked the Minister Bergmanis, for what purpose his department purchased the old Stinger MANPADS." Well, old? And why is our Moscow Region and the media whipping about a downed attack aircraft?
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 February 2018 19: 35
      0
      And where did they say that he was shot down by Stinger?
  6. Curious
    Curious 11 February 2018 10: 34
    +5
    “Indeed, the collimator Zeiss with which the rifle is equipped caused a lot of complaints from users. They accused the device of a tunnel effect - the viewing angle is small and in battle does not allow normal control of the space. The sight is equipped with a special system that ensures operation without the use of batteries in natural light. it’s necessary to turn it on, which takes precious seconds. Especially in the turmoil of battle you can easily forget about it. In addition, the sight fogs up in the rain. "
    The author was so eager to hurt the stupid Chukhons that he forgot to learn the materiel.
    All standard G-36 rifles are equipped with two sights: a Hensoldt HKV 3,5x optical sight and a Zeiss red dot red dot sight; both are located in the handle for carrying. So fogging the optical sight.
    By the way, with these rifles is not so simple. The Spaniards release them, exploit them and have no global claims. And the Germans claim claims are a consequence of excessive requirements.
    Gradually, the Armament section also becomes a branch of the News section.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 11 February 2018 12: 50
      +4
      Well, the G-36 is in your hands and a drum on your neck!
      1. Curious
        Curious 11 February 2018 14: 58
        +2
        And you have ants in your pants and a fair wind in your back.
    2. 32363
      32363 11 February 2018 17: 14
      0
      Quote: Curious
      So fogging the optical sight.

      so no one canceled physics, glasses sweat too))), forgot how to use snot? optics fogged up, wipe with snot and you will be happy.
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 14 February 2018 01: 50
        0
        Optics should not sweat.

        The red dot on the sight on the battery burns for 60 hours. I once burned a month. Accidentally forgot to turn it off. White batteries are cheap.
        If someone posesses himself on solar panels, then in vain. Reliability is terrible. Thrown out money.
  7. bunta
    bunta 11 February 2018 10: 44
    +10
    The reason for the decrease in accuracy is a gross design error. The barrel is planted in a plastic box, which heats up during prolonged shooting and gives deformation and shrinkage, forming a gap between the barrel and the box.

    Where are you, gloomy Teutonic geniuses?
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 11 February 2018 10: 55
      +3
      It's just some kind of horror, this "thing" is a place in the toy department!
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 11 February 2018 12: 20
      +1
      The overheating in Afghanistan was due to the cartridges, not the design of the gun.

      "In February 2014, the German Federal Ministry of Defense announced that the overheating deficiencies
      of the G36 were not a result of weapon design, but of the ammunition.
      A report by the Bundeswehr on February 21, 2014, revealed that the issues were not the fault of the rifle,
      but that one manufacturer of ammunition was making bullets with copper plated jackets that were too thin "

      "... bullets with copper plated jackets that were too thin"
      We used cartridges with a thin copper shell. When heated, the weapon began to "spit."
      due to the fact that the lead partially poured out of the bullet in the bore.
      Soviet PPSh had the same problem with long lines. All the soldiers knew this.
      Nevertheless, PPSh was thought to be a good machine gun.
      1. bunta
        bunta 11 February 2018 12: 58
        +5
        Do not read Wikipedia especially at night, and if you have indigestion.
        this is better:
        In my estimation, Heckler and Koch is lashing out in an attempt to salvage the G36's reputation. I have for several years known about the G36's lack of a direct metal connection between the barrel and the sights, something that I strongly suspected would cause POI shift issues with polymers of higher coefficients of thermal expansion. Two days ago, those suspicions were confirmed. The G36 suffers from an issue stemming from its very architectural design.

        Heckler and Koch will have a very difficult time refuting this, and it sounds like they know it, too.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 11 February 2018 15: 04
          +3
          Do not mix two different things:
          1) loss of accuracy when overheating the barrel.
          2) loss of lethal force during barrel overheating ("spitting" weapons).
          In the first case, accuracy and accuracy are lost. But if he gets, he will kill.
          In the second case, even when flying, the bullet does not penetrate sad .
          In Afghanistan, the second was critical. Therefore, the soldiers had to wait until
          the weapon cools down. To machine gunners this phenomenon is very familiar. Or change the trunk
          or watered with water (you can also pee smile ), or waiting.

          Not only Soviet, but also German soldiers (who
          It was also actively used). We tried not to overheat. And use its virtues.
          1. bunta
            bunta 11 February 2018 16: 33
            +4
            An “overheated” barrel “spits” due to a gas breakthrough between the bullet and the barrel’s inner surface due to thermal expansion of the barrel. How does your theoretically molten lead flowing out of a bullet shell contribute to gas breakthroughs? Whether you have weedy grass, or specifically troll with obvious stupidity.
          2. Des10
            Des10 11 February 2018 19: 02
            +1
            The AK-74M has overheating and spitting after several (3) stores, moreover, in winter.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 12 February 2018 11: 47
              +2
              AK I'm already afraid to even mention. It’s even scary to praise him: “suddenly he didn’t praise him enough?” belay
              For AK "bunta" anyone "breaks his mouth, blinks stick out" smile
              1. aws4
                aws4 12 February 2018 20: 11
                0
                plus sign from me))))))))))) by the way we are very indignant at the fact that in Israel there is still no monument ak 47 ... what kind of disrespect ???? you there really don’t understand anything laughing
      2. bunta
        bunta 11 February 2018 13: 06
        +9
        In the story with cartridges, they mowed not on the shell, but on the replacement of lead with antimony. Allegedly, it melted and the steel core dangled in the shell like feces in the hole. About PPSh do not disgrace. For lead to melt in the barrel, its length must be at least 100 meters. If by some miracle he nevertheless melted and spilled into the barrel, then the next bullet would simply be stuck in the barrel. So there would simply be no spitting, burping, vomiting, or other bowel movements.
      3. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 12 February 2018 01: 00
        +4
        Quote: voyaka uh
        When heated, the weapon began to "spit."
        due to the fact that the lead partially poured out of the bullet in the bore.
        Soviet PPSh had the same problem with long lines. All the soldiers knew this.
        Nevertheless, PPSh was thought to be a good machine gun.

        It's strong wassat ! How could PCA with its pistol cartridge melt lead inside the tompack shell? Well, I would understand if it were a .300Win cartridge. But for a pistol bullet with 0,3 g of gunpowder, low initial speed and a short barrel to melt lead ... Well, yes ... There is a wide fantasy among the sons of Israel!
        1. Nitochkin
          Nitochkin 12 February 2018 06: 52
          +1
          And this despite the fact that the melting temperature of lead over 300 degrees Celsius))
          In order for lead to melt in a pool in such a short time, what should be the temperature of the barrel?
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 12 February 2018 12: 00
          0
          Well, the barrel of a machine gun is glowing red unless you change it.
          In the dark - visible. I have seen this.

          At what temperature does the steel turn red? We look in Google:
          "Red-hot color 550 Dark brown 630 Brown-red 680
          Dark Red 740 Dark Cherry 770 Cherry 800 "

          Say 700 degrees. And lead has a melting point of 300, as
          You kindly suggested hi .
          Why can't lead begin to pour out of a bullet in a red-hot barrel bore?
          Not all lead, but part. The bullet becomes lighter, plus gas breakouts and does not fly far.
          I read about PPSh, did not invent. It described how a Soviet soldier ran into a German
          (Stalingrad battles). Released a line on it. And with horror I saw that the bullets did not penetrate
          even a winter overcoat. But the German was in shock and immediately gave up, raised his hands.
          1. bunta
            bunta 12 February 2018 16: 40
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            But the German was in shock and immediately gave up, raised his hands.

            And molten lead flowed from the barrel in a thin stream ...

            PPSh works with an open shutter, from the moment it hits the heated barrel and before the bullet takes off, less than 0,01 seconds pass. Now take a bullet and place it in an iron barrel preheated to 1000 degrees. We note the lead smelting time.

            Against a lead melt with a temperature of 300 degrees, there is also the ignition temperature of 200 gunpowder. I mean, for a closed-gate circuit, when a bullet in a hot chamber warms up to lead melt, the cartridge will have time to fire by itself. And it is advisable in faberger stupid warriors.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 12 February 2018 16: 50
              0
              "And molten lead flowed from the barrel in a thin stream ..." ////

              I like it... good
              Do you have an artistic imagination! Not expected.

              "there is still an ignition temperature of gunpowder 200. I mean,
              that for a closed-gate circuit, when a bullet in a hot chamber warms up to lead melt "////

              Here you have a logical little ring! The chamber does not warm up to such temperatures. There the trunk is thicker and never glows red-hot. Therefore, self-ignition of gunpowder does not occur.

              "And preferably in the Fabergean stupid warriors." ////

              ABOUT! I was burned ... knees and eggs. Hot sleeves.
              When you shoot from a turret, shells fall straight down. It is on Faberge,
              as you gracefully put it.
              It’s positively pleasant to talk with AK specialists! drinks
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 12 February 2018 17: 26
                +5
                Yes, the rebellion is right. As it was written off (in Soviet times), zinc cartridges. AK worked hard, very much so. But, for some reason, I did not observe a molten lead flowing out of the barrel even once. You yourself have identified such an effect ???
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 12 February 2018 17: 37
                  0
                  About AK - not a word of bad! Taboo. stop
                  You read our entire dialogue (if interested, of course),
                  I wrote there in detail that I saw that I did not see. hi
                  1. Okolotochny
                    Okolotochny 12 February 2018 17: 42
                    +5
                    Yes, I read.
                    Do not mix two different things:
                    1) loss of accuracy when overheating the barrel.
                    2) loss of lethal force during barrel overheating ("spitting" weapons).

                    Riot correctly wrote to you that the trunk expands when overheated. Because of this, accuracy drops. But the lethal force also drops, since some of the gases are already pushing not the bullet, but out between the bullet and the barrel.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 12 February 2018 18: 46
                      0
                      I don’t argue with that.
                      But, if you read our discussion carefully:
                      Riot wrote: "And to replace the lead with antimony. Allegedly it melted and the steel core dangled in the shell ..."

                      What is the melting point of antimony? We look: 630 degrees.
                      2 times higher than that of lead. So antimony (630 degrees) could melt in bullets
                      in the red-hot G36 barrel in Afghanistan, and lead (300 degrees) for some reason couldn’t in the red-hot PCA barrel? belay
                      It was for melting lead that my opponents ridiculed me.
                      1. bunta
                        bunta 12 February 2018 19: 52
                        +1
                        Does the word "supposedly" mean nothing? These same fighters tried to rub members of the commission of the Bundestag, rolling on ammunition manufacturers. They twisted a finger at the temple, just like I heard about lead.
                        In general, the fighter is well done. Holds a punch. Unlike some, it does not take offense, is not rude, does not wash off and does not merge. Respect. I would drink such fearless vodka. They say Jews love to drink behind the back of the Arab peoples.
                      2. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 12 February 2018 20: 30
                        +4
                        For such subtleties as antimony, I am not in the subject, to be honest. I wrote for the principle itself, for ammunition not in the subject, litter.
                  2. Okolotochny
                    Okolotochny 12 February 2018 20: 33
                    +3
                    By the way, why not for AK? If the case? Eternal and unbreakable, without flaws there is nothing, and AK is no exception.
    3. tracer
      tracer 11 February 2018 16: 55
      +5
      Great photo. Here it is .... The reason for the scatter. Every normal person understands this. And even more so for those who understand mechanics, including weapons. Structurally, the rifle is made at a different technological level. Why on the other? Extremely cheap and cheerful. Almost 80 percent of the weapons are solid die-casting of a special polymer. That is, from one "tank" it is possible, like from a tube of toothpaste, to train about 80 component parts of a weapon !!! No 3D printers dreamed of such a performance. The metal parts were simply melted into the polymer under pressure. And this is a very reliable connection, if we exclude the effect of high temperature. But then it is impossible to exclude it. Presented on the photo is the site of fusion of the chamber into the receiver of the Achilles heel of this rifle. And about it is known even at the design stage. The simplest calculation of the effect of temperature will show this. And this once again proves the meaning of "alpha and omega" of Western thinking "making profit at all costs." And the task of all developments without exception is precisely in this and not in that it "works as it should."
  8. Raccoon
    Raccoon 11 February 2018 11: 09
    +3
    As far as I know, in Germany they wanted to adopt the HK G11 rifle with a cartridgeless cartridge (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_G11), but due to reunification with the GDR there were no financial means and the Bundes whipped up G36, a kind of temporary version of an army assault rifle for a while everything settles down ... but something this temporary period dragged on for more than 20 years ...
    1. would
      would 11 February 2018 15: 36
      +2
      With G11, the problem is largely not the lack of funds, but the fact that by definition it is not suitable for mass production and equipping the army with it. Very complex constructively and as a result, an expensive and very moody rifle. Her insides are a separate hell



      And with all this, its only advantage, like all shellless systems, is that its lower weight already began to decrease, the use of new materials in the shells made it possible to reduce their weight without making any changes to a reliable weapon. The topic of fully polymer sleeves is being actively developed now, there are even such ones on the market, but the main problem is the impossibility of regular use with a relatively small minus, already at -18 as one of the manufacturers directly writes. And now, the Americans in their LSAT combined a polymer sleeve and a telescopic munition, which brought it even closer in weight to shellless munitions.
    2. gross kaput
      gross kaput 12 February 2018 23: 00
      -1
      Quote: Raccoon
      As far as I know, in Germany they wanted to adopt the HK G11 rifle

      We wanted and accepted -G-11 adopted by the Bundes in 1989, for 90 years there were adjustments to production plans, etc. etc. as a result, 300 rifles were to be manufactured; the rearmament program was designed until 000. - but the Germans did not grow together. but this whole topic still dragged on until 2003 when the final decision was made to switch the BV to 93 and create a model for it - that is how the XK 5,56 system came about after being adopted by the G-50. The German rifle can be called a boa stretch by the time of its development, the HUK was already bought by the British Royal Ordnance and the NK-36 (G-50) was based on the British "rifle for the poor" - SAR-36, in turn, the Stoner AR was the base for it -eighteen.
      The most striking thing is not even the author’s protrusion by the sour cabbage for a long time towards G-36 - it can be understood - the article is patriotic and newspaper, and the opinion of some experts gathered here - the stories from the G-36 in Afghanistan have been around for five years now, they finally figured out the reasons the end of 2013, the reason for the terrifying drop in accuracy when heating is the quality of MEN's DM 11 cartridges, more specifically the poor-quality tin shirt between the core and the shell, as a result of which a part of the tin was deposited in the barrel when fired, and the cause of the drop in the accuracy of the mill it was not heating as such, but a trunk contaminated with tin. But a wave immediately appeared in the press that the HUK and the Bundeswehr specialist blamed the cartridges to remove the G-36 itself and its export from under attack.
      In order to put an end to this epic in early 2014, the Bundeswehr and Hook specially conducted demonstration firing from the G-36, and firing was carried out from rifles arbitrarily selected by journalists from the mid-90s to the mid-00s - i.e. used, firing was conducted in combat mode, i.e. equally in single and short bursts with 20 minutes spent of all wearable b / c in 150 rounds. Before and after shooting, accuracy was shot - with all standard NATO 5,56 accuracy after warming up was normal - up to 14cm per 100m and only Menov DM11 after shooting 150 pieces showed a spread of 40 cm - so this topic was for the whole weapons community closed four years ago.
      PS is direct not a resource but some kind of time machine.
  9. ingvar1951
    ingvar1951 11 February 2018 14: 42
    +3
    I wouldn’t call it a pretty reliable G-3. I didn’t like to shoot from it. It’s a heavy massive fool. I have seen failures just a few times just in the rain. I liked FAL-FN more.
  10. frols
    frols 11 February 2018 19: 13
    0
    And our brave tortoise carrier is just the same with this rifle, he knows for himself. Tomorrow, the Ministry of Defense will sign an agreement with EuroSpike on the purchase of Spike anti-tank missiles.
    1. Nitochkin
      Nitochkin 12 February 2018 06: 55
      0
      For hunting wounded turtles, it’s quite good))
  11. Catfish
    Catfish 12 February 2018 02: 30
    +1
    Quote: aws4
    Interestingly, by the way, and the steel blade is the same as in the Soviet)))))))


    If the same as the Soviet, then this means that their bayonet-knives are the same shit as ours. In our company there was no bayonet whose tip was not broken off. hi
  12. Karadoc
    Karadoc 12 February 2018 23: 57
    +1
    Immediately visible "specialist." The author, for no reason at all, calls the BAC (Criminal Investigation) "police special forces", then claims that "... the French were disappointed. Soon they came to the conclusion: G36, showing quite decent results when shooting with single shots, was completely unsuitable for automatic fire due to the rapid drop in accuracy when heating the barrel and a tendency to fail. ", given that the model purchased for the police does not have the function of automatic fire.
  13. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 13 February 2018 00: 27
    0
    bunta,
    "These are the same warriors tried to rub members of the commission of the Bundestag, rolling on ammunition manufacturers" ////

    I am sure that Heckler & Koch has professional weapons testers. Which imitated the Afghan fiasco with various types of cartridges. And on the basis of this, they came to the conclusion about a thin copper shell of bullets that does not protect the bullet from overheating. A large number of G36s were transferred by the Germans to the Kurds in Iraq. There is even more hellish heat than in Afghanistan, but there were no such failures recorded in Afghanistan. I trust the testers from Heckler & Koch more, (warriors like me smile ) than private experts invited by the opposition to the commission. hi
    1. bunta
      bunta 15 February 2018 10: 47
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      but bounce like an afghan

      nobody said about failures :) accuracy was falling. And not only when heated. But more often when heated!

      The commission based on the results of research on the 304 page came to the conclusion that design and cartridge shortcomings became a drop in accuracy. At the same time, there were complaints about individual batches of cartridges that gave deviations of up to 35%. But something I did not find information on the tin cartridge. There is a mention on MEN DM11, but he has an ordinary bullet - steel, lead, copper.

      Google, Shura, google. (with)
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 15 February 2018 18: 05
        -1
        Quote: bunta
        Google, Shura, google.

        Well, actually with the source of your knowledge decided laughing
        In general, stop using Google and Wikipedia and study at your leisure https://www.kalashnikov.ru/wp-content/uploads/201
        6/02 / kalashnikov_10_2014site.pdf
        With regards to tin, he wrote from memory, therefore, he was a little mistaken, the tin is not a core shirt, but a coating on the shell of a bullet.


        PS I have a friend, he has his own shop - he sells MMG and SHP, recently there are large numbers of emigrants from the South arsenals, well, every time you look at the STG44 hanging on the window, I laugh to tears remembering one plumbing connoisseur, you’ll be in a rubber to know - I’ll take you there and ask you to disassemble the stormtrooper and show, so to speak, by personal example, how to look for tapered threads where they are not there, and then build on this theory of your own and write whole articles about what is missing.