Transmission to the fleet of MRK Vyshny Volochek delayed due to problems with the Chinese engine

The Russian Navy will receive a small rocket ship (MRK) of the Vyshniy Volochek project 21631 not earlier than April 2018 of the year, an informed source in the military-industrial complex said.

According to him, the delay is caused by problems with high-speed marine diesel engine CHD622V20 produced by China.

Engineers are now in close collaboration with fleet fix problems. In the near future, elements of a two-stage turbocharging system will come and eliminate the shortcomings, he added.

According to the original project, the German MTU 16V4000M90 engines planned to supply all nine ships of the Buyanov-M series under construction. However, due to the cessation of supply caused by the sanctions, MTU diesel engines were installed on only five ships transferred to the fleet in 2014 – 2015.

On the remaining ships of the series, the command of the Navy decided to put Chinese diesel engines - 20-cylinder CHD622V20 with a power of 3200 kW.

According to the chief designer of the M150 diesel engine, Pulsar PJSC Zvezda, Alexander Arkhipov, the engine from the People's Republic of China for 21631 ships is a licensed copy of the German diesel engine Deutz TBD622, while the manufacturer Deutz-MWM has already left the market.

A source in one of the engine-building companies, familiar with the situation, told the publication that the engine CHD622V20 did not fully meet the requirements for the power plant of a warship.

It was created for civilian courts, where the load on the power plant is completely different, and the “naval” speed limits it simply will not pull, which will surely manifest itself in the future.

- added a source.

He stressed that the Chinese diesel compared to MTU, which managed to put on the first "Buyan-M", less reliable and consumes more fuel.

Comments

[Muvka]

Here it is Chinese quality. Once again in the last few weeks. Do you really think their fleet is better? Is their ship something serious? This is a bunch of shitty working trash.

[Alex_Rarog]

Yes what for them fleet? His task is to hold back the landing once. And that they won’t hold back, the infantry will roll on the ground ... we need this fleet! And to the Chinese, he is pure as a shield from the first blow.

[Shurik70]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

we need this fleet! And the Chinese, he is pure as a shield from the first blow

The Chinese need a fleet no less than us. They also have many disputed territories, and Sri Lanka is an island in general. I am Japanese at my side, and American bases.
As for quality, China is now full of private shops, and everything is riveted in a row. So the claims should be primarily to the one who decided to buy engines in a cheap shop, instead of a trusted supplier. Why did you decide that the Chinese put engines from the same manufacturer on their fleet?

[ssergn]

Quote: Shurik70

Sri Lanka is generally an island.

What does this have to do with it?

[Seraphimamur]

What does Sri Lanka have to do with it, which is near India. Maybe Greenland?

[Omskgasmyas]

Rather Taiwan

[Shurik70]

Quote: Omskgazmyas

Rather Taiwan

oops ... minus ten points

[Lock36]

Yah? And when was the last time the Chinese infantry showed themselves so? Read the story. As, for example, their Japanese as pigs were slaughtered in the 30s ...

[Sling cutter]

And what reason do you have to believe that the Chinese do not knowingly supply us with low-quality products?
Lived ...... for 25-years, from the Chinese we buy dviguny for
Navy. And before that, the potential "partners" do.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Transmission to the fleet of MRK Vyshny Volochek delayed due to problems with the Chinese engine

but precisely that the site can not communicate in Russian? I have questions, in plain Russian, to some "officials" ...

[Nasrat]

Well, then the team will be ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Nasr

Well, then the team will be ...

I agree ... but not funny ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: Nasr

Well, then the team will be ...

This thick and deep state will be until the moment when domestic dviguns go into a series. And after that they will most likely replace this Chinese trash with Russian SU.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

will replace this Chinese trash

Oh, already, "Chinese trash"?
someone recently sang fables to us that China almost overtook the USSR and the Chinese products of the military-industrial complex are one of the best in the world. He supposedly even gained his school! How is it that Chinese diesel junk? What is the catch, dear? Working out a re-shoe program in the air?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

someone recently sang fables to us that China almost overtook the USSR and the Chinese products of the military-industrial complex are one of the best in the world.

Dear wise guy, do not put a cat on a globe. I talked about the fact that in the short term, 15-20 years, we would not have to chase the Chinese in the issue of technology and military products in particular.
Your "emotional impulse", but simply vyser, speaks once again about how you carefully read posts. Why did you come here with your covetous wisdom, or did your father and mother not teach you to read thoughtfully and meaningfully?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

I talked about

this is what you were talking about:

post: https://topwar.ru/134921-kitayskie-atomnye-podlod
ki-okazalis-slishkom-shumnymi.html # comment-id-783
7089
why are you, my friend, changing shoes right in the air? Do you suffer from sclerosis, or have you decided to repaint? Either China is the locomotive of progress, then "Chinese trash." You already decide, perhaps, for yourself at least. And yet conscience is enough to persist. Unlike you, I do not suffer from bouts of sclerosis.
Well, as for the Vysers, you are asking yourself a question. How to stop incontinence. Here either you can’t lie, or write down what you’re lying.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

why are you, my friend, changing shoes right in the air?

You still decided to show your carelessness to the people ... We read thoughtfully what I wrote-

"The present China in its capacities, industrial and economic capacity to match the USSR, only with a human resource many times greater. For these guys very soon, not we, not the United States, we will not chase"

I will single out for you, a wise guy, so that you do not begin to spread again verbiage.
And where did you find the contradiction in my words now and then? Or do you think that today's China is a backward state with a worthless economy and industry?
So what about the shoe in the air? It's very interesting to listen.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NEXUS

I will highlight for you

and I to you strabismus:

Quote: NEXUS

The present China in its capacities, industrial and economic capacity to match the USSR, only with human resources at times large. For these guys very soon, we will not catch up with the United States "

But, I think, you won’t even understand with highlighting.
Remove the pan already from your head, it obviously does not have the best effect on thought processes (maybe which waves it doesn’t let through, or vice versa, stagnation?)

Quote: NEXUS

Or do you think that today's China

I expressed my opinion about China in the very branch to which I gave the link. You, my friend, do not invent for me, this forgery is called, and eloquently testifies that you have merged, since you are trying to distort the words of the interlocutor and in such an unfair way exposing him to say the least. You would have been treated before it reached the stage of “the scribe is incurable” (or has it already reached?), Otherwise we are worried for you, sincerely) Who else will listen to such magical sometimes thoughts? Regards

[NEXUS]

Quote: Gregory_45

and I to you strabismus:
Quote: NEXUS
In terms of its capacities, industrial and economic power, present-day China is similar to the USSR, only with human resources many times larger. For these guys very soon, we will not catch up with the United States "

Well, what can I say about you? The diagnosis is clear. Okurat on Lavrov.
For more than that, I don’t want to spend my time on such a Giant. Continue to pull the cat on the globe with obscenities and songs, as well as spread verbiage on VO.

[kapitan92]

Quote: Stroporez

And what reason do you have to believe that the Chinese do not knowingly supply us with low-quality products?
Lived ...... for 25-years, from the Chinese we buy dviguny for
Navy. And before that, the potential "partners" do.

Honestly, I do not quite understand why we cannot buy a dozen German engines through intermediary firms. This method was used back in the USSR when purchasing precision machine tools in Japan. There is information that the outskirts is acquiring dviguny for their armored personnel carriers in Russia, through British intermediaries. So what's the problem?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: kapitan92

Honestly, I do not quite understand why we cannot buy a dozen German engines through intermediary firms. This method was used back in the USSR,

Firstly, the Russian Federation is clearly not the USSR. And second. Why is the release of their engines not yet established?

Quote: kapitan92

when purchasing precision machine tools in Japan.

Notice the machine tools, not the finished product, but these are two big differences.

[kapitan92]

Quote: Stroporez

Firstly, the Russian Federation is clearly not the USSR

Quote: Stroporez

Why is the release of their dviguns still not adjusted?

From design to the exit to the "mountain" of finished engines, from 5 years, with normal financing. Or simply put, who thought of this from the Moscow Region? Probably assumed that the "brothers" and "partners" would exist forever.

Quote: Stroporez

Notice the machine tools, not the finished product, but these are two big differences.

I do not see much difference, for there is only one scheme. Nobody wants to work in this direction, but that's another topic.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: kapitan92

From design to the exit to the "mountain" of finished engines, from 5 years,

Save German, no problem.

Quote: kapitan92

I do not see much difference, for there is only one scheme.

A colleague, I talked about the fact that buying equipment for setting up your own production and buying a finished product are two big differences!

[kapitan92]

Quote: Stroporez

Save German, no problem.

This is the Chinese!

Quote: Stroporez

A colleague, I talked about the fact that buying equipment for setting up your own production and buying a finished product are two big differences!

I agree, but there is one thing but! To buy equipment, to establish our own production is, first of all, time and money. Engines are needed yesterday, so to achieve the goal all the ways are good.

[Overlock]

Quote: kapitan92

Probably assumed that the "brothers" and "partners" would exist forever.

that's how it was!

[ZVO]

Quote: kapitan92

I do not see much difference, for there is only one scheme. Nobody wants to work in this direction, but that's another topic.

Such engines are piece engines. Sold as part of a project. According to the project, commissioning and installation is included and that's it.
There is no other way.

If you have never come off a plow. and apart from trading in sand you don’t know anything - study.

[kapitan92]

Quote: ZVO

If you have never come off a plow. and apart from trading in sand you don’t know anything - study.

[ZVO]

Quote: kapitan92

]

Well, that’s understandable.
Why have something in your head and understand - it's easier to look for caricatures and demos.

[kapitan92]

Quote: ZVO

Such engines are piece engines. Sold as part of a project. According to the project, commissioning and installation is included and that's it.
There is no other way.

Okay gentlemen! Still have to "truthfully wise" tell the truth. In the early 2000s, he was engaged in exporting aviation parts abroad, as life has developed. You can buy and sell anything, if only there were grandmas. I will not be original if I remind you that everything is for sale and everything is bought, even human life.
About the "piece" engines, as part of the project. This is not stupidity, this is not knowledge, but it is excusable for arrogant amateurs, i.e. my counterpart.
Engine MTU 16V4000G23
Stationary diesel engines MTU 16V4000 are successfully used at construction sites, railway transport and military equipment as part of generator sets.

MTU 16V4000G23 is a diesel 16-cylinder in-line engine for industrial plants and equipment. MTU 16V4000G23 is equipped with an electronic common-rail fuel injection system, a liquid cooling system, an oil heat exchanger, characterized by low noise and economical fuel and oil consumption.

The perfectly balanced 16V4000G23 MTU engine is convenient for installation and operation as part of stationary diesel generators. The motor design is designed for long reliable operation in difficult operating conditions for more than 30 thousand hours before overhaul.


MTU 16V4000G23 diesel is used in the configuration of diesel generators Gesan, Energo, Himoinsa, EPS System, Fogo: Gesan DTA 275 E, Gesan DTA 300E, Energo ED 280/400 MU, Himoinsa HMW-280 T5, Himoinsa HRMW-280 T5, EPS System GMT 310, Fogo FU280.
This is a dual-use product, as they are called. Buying them through shell companies registered in South America, Africa, etc., where they were previously used, is no problem. It is bought all as accessories or spare parts.
ALL.! Next is commerce and my bread. Hello smart!

[DenZ]

Quote: kapitan92

I do not see much difference, for there is only one scheme. Nobody wants to work in this direction, but that's another topic.

You do not see in vain. From the point of view of customs (German and ours, too), these are not at all the same things. And if the engines can’t import, it means they’ve already tried it but nothing happened. Some machines are still being dragged from Europe, but the engines ... Germans for the violation of the sanctions regime, too, will fly a hat be healthy. They might be happy to sell but ...

[kapitan92]

Quote: DenZ

You do not see in vain. From the point of view of customs (German and ours, too), these are not at all the same things. And if the engines can’t import, it means they’ve already tried it but nothing happened.

Already explained everything, a post above.

[Serg65]

Quote: Stroporez

Why is the release of their dviguns still not adjusted?

So because during the Union was not established

[Overlock]

Quote: Serg65

So because during the Union was not established

but then there was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic with a factory in Nikolaev

[Serg65]

Quote: Overlock

but then there was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic with a factory in Nikolaev

And what about Ukraine and Nikolaev? Diesels were not made there!

[Overlock]

Quote: Serg65

And what about Ukraine and Nikolaev? Diesels were not made there!

From 1954 to 1964, the first generation engines were developed and manufactured - M2, D2, D3, M8 for anti-submarine and patrol ships.

In 1958, the world's first main MZ gas turbine unit with a reversible gearbox (36 hp, 000 g / hp. × h, 260 h resource) was created for large anti-submarine ships of Project 5000.

From 1965 to 1970, second-generation engines M60, M62, M8K, M8E were created with increased efficiency (200-240 g / l.s. × h), improved acoustic characteristics, and a resource of at least 10 hours. Based on them, high-performance installations M000, M5, M7, M9, M12 for displacement anti-submarine, landing, and patrol ships were developed and transferred to a series. Technical data of the engines allowed to increase the cruising range. For air-cushion and hydrofoil ships, the DT21 and M4 installations were created.
From 1971 to 1985, a unified range of third-generation engines M75 (UGT 3000), M70 (UGT 6000), M90 (UGT 15000) with an efficiency of 30–36%, suitable for use in gas turbine installations of ships of any class and industrial applications, was developed. Gas turbine units for new types of ships were created on the basis of third-generation engines:

unique M21 COGAS mount for Atlant Project 1164 missile cruisers (in 1981);
M35 installation with a total capacity of 50 liters. with. for the bison project hovercraft;
marching unit M16 (in 1985) with a capacity of 10 liters. with. for the hydrofoil ship of the Falcon project;
M37 installation (in 1985) - for the Cyclone hydrofoil passenger ship. Speed ​​- 42 knots, cruising range - 300 miles.
Based on the UGT 15000 engine, a new marine diesel-gas-turbine unit with a capacity of 27 horsepower was created.

[Serg65]

Quote: Overlock

1954 to 1964 year developed

Which of the above do you attribute to marching diesels?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: kapitan92

Honestly, I do not quite understand why we cannot buy a dozen German engines through intermediary firms

We can. And then how to service them, where to get spare parts?
And the second nuance. Unlikely, but maybe. The contract may specify a clause on the provision of materials to the supplier (up to the inspection) where and how these diesel engines were installed.
In particular, when our plant bought American Cummins, the management somehow assured the “partners” that we would not put them on the BMP in any way (although everyone understands that the customer would have shot his legs if there were people who wanted to). This was before the sanctions. In general, with this strictly in the west - if you sold a dual-use product.

[Antares]

Quote: kapitan92

BTRov in Russia, through British intermediaries

there Deutz (Germany) or Kharkov. Germans sell directly
YaMZ for KrAZ could through Moldavian

[Serg65]

Quote: Stroporez

Lived ...... for 25-years, from the Chinese we buy dviguny for

And with the Union, from whom did they buy?

[novel66]

hi, bryak from the stove! repeater to you in the galley! Have you fought today - for the hurt, Solar?

[Serg65]

Roma is healthy!

Quote: novel xnumx

repeater to you in the galley!

No, well, you’ve been guessing for a long time that you are a pervert!

Quote: novel xnumx

hurt for a living, solarium?

Why? Just to blurt out. sorry for the power, Roma

[novel66]

I propose to stop supplying amers rd-180 and put them on ships - they will fly! imagine the puzzled face of their admiral when the mrk flies past the aug, emptying the latrine above their heads

[Serg65]

Roma, I thought that hemp is our prerogative, but no! He doesn’t break into havchik

[novel66]

Well, I always loved to eat but what are you hinting at - no! I already have a good fantasy, but I have enough dope!

[Serg65]

Quote: novel xnumx

and his dope is enough!

Well, at least you have normal nonsense, it does not go off scale!

[novel66]

but it happens

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Serg65

And with the Union, from whom did they buy?

they also bought for the civilian fleet - in Poland and the GDR. German engines praised ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: Stroporez

They survived ...... for 25 years, from the Chinese we buy dviguny

If the ships were originally designed for German, then ours can’t be put there anymore - you have to redo the entire ship.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Dart2027

If the ships were originally designed for German, then ours can’t be put there anymore - you have to redo the entire ship.

Even so, why are the Chaynovskys inserted?

[Dart2027]

Quote: Stroporez

then why Chaynovsky

Because they are copies of German.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Dart2027

Because they are copies of German.

Have you read the comments? I already said why we did not copy-paste?

[Dart2027]

Quote: Stroporez

I already said, why we did not copy-paste

Because the Chinese have received production technology from the Germans, but we do not have it. That is, we do diesel, but according to its technology.

[Lexus]

If the ships were originally designed for German, then ours can’t be put there anymore - you have to redo the entire ship.

And what is the difficulty? The Chinese make the same German engines, only at home, and spat on all copyrights. Yes, all engines of similar power have almost the same weight and size parameters.

[Dart2027]

Quote: lexus

German engines, only at home, and spat on all copyrights

They do it under license, that is, having bought all the technical documentation.

Quote: lexus

have almost the same weight and size parameters

There are also control systems, the composition of service systems, and more.

[Lexus]

They do it under license, that is, having bought all the technical documentation.

I remember they bought a license for the Su-27. So what? Copied and sent. Now only dviguny buy, and so far. The Germans, if they get bored, they will kick from the market without regrets, and they will find an alternative without much difficulty.

There are also control systems, the composition of service systems, and more.

The difference is still unprincipled.

[Dart2027]

Quote: lexus

I remember they bought a license for the Su-27. So what? Copied and sent.

Correctly. Bought a license. And then copied. Plus, their technical school is based on ours, that is, many technical solutions were already known to them.
.

Quote: lexus

The difference is still unprincipled.

The fact of the matter is that of principle.

[Lexus]

The fact of the matter is that of principle.

So what? To sit and wait "by the sea of ​​weather" or when the sanctions will be lifted?

[Dart2027]

Quote: lexus

To sit and wait "by the sea of ​​weather" or when the sanctions will be lifted?

Design ships with your diesels. But these are new series, but in those already designed and built - alas.

[Lexus]

It is gratifying that, in the end, they came to a common denominator.

[cormorant]

This article is for those who claim that Chinese quality is at world standards. In general, it is not clear why it was necessary to put a civilian engine on a warship.

[210ox]

This "trash", as you put it, is being built at a fast pace and brought to mind. What are we missing. Doesn't it mean that we had to turn to the Chinese manufacturer?

Quote: Muvka

Here it is Chinese quality. Once again in the last few weeks. Do you really think their fleet is better? Is their ship something serious? This is a bunch of shitty working trash.

[Muvka]

And where is that mind? When will it happen? How long will they finish?

[Father of a Soldier]

Well, so overkill the Chinese partners for a golem marriage and continue to install domestic engines.

[siberalt]

It's time to do your engines. We still cannot import substitute in this matter after liberal devastation. Or do we have few seas and oceans?

[iouris]

Quote: Muvka

Here it is Chinese quality.

Apparently, the Chinese quality is still higher than the quality of "domestic manufacturers."

[NOMADE]

Ahah, a few years ago I wrote that we would buy Chinese "copies" of marine engines. So I was cheered by patriots as well)) On the topic, it’s just that our "commerce" bought and delivered not what was needed and did not mount it very much. In general, everything is in the "best traditions" (they wanted the best, but it turned out as usual ..). Chinese courts go and do not buzz norms ..

[forester]

Quote: Muvka

Here it is Chinese quality. Once again in the last few weeks. Do you really think their fleet is better? Is their ship something serious? This is a bunch of shitty working trash.

Yes, Chinese equipment has always been of disgusting quality, but it just doesn’t fit my mind - how is it that we do rocket and aircraft engines better than everyone else, but we won’t learn ship and car engines? Or damn no one needs?

[Pilot]

And who told you that they put their engines on warships. Their problems in engines in the Air Force and the Navy - they buy in Europe and in Russia. And ours decided to save on playing, ask Prime Shipping, the shipping company, how to hold onto these Chinese tankers.

[Alex_Rarog]

Damn CHINESE DIESEL CARL !!! I really hope that we are already setting up the production of such power plants!

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

I really hope that we are already setting up the production of such power plants!

Hope dies last along with import substitution.

[Reserve officer]

My wife’s father worked for 50 for years at Zvezda, and went from a turner to the head of the workshop. With 2012 - retired. He left at the age of 72 years, his legs completely refused. From the plant then one name remained.
Now I read him this article about Chinese diesel. It would be better if I didn’t. I heard very bright epithets. And about the management of the plant, and about the leadership of the city, and about the leadership of the country.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Reserve officer

Now I read him this article about Chinese diesel. It would be better if I didn’t. I heard very bright epithets. And about the management of the plant, and about the leadership of the city, and about the leadership of the country.

Lyokha ... it would be better if you .... (lingered at work) ...

[My_log_in]

chief designer of the M150 Pulsar diesel engine of PJSC Zvezda Alexander Arkhipov

and in terms of content the chief designer has something to say?

[kepmor]

there is nothing to say to him ... this problem has been stretching since Soviet times ...
we never had normal ship high-speed diesel engines ...
M-504, M-507A with a bunch of DG have always been a headache for both mechanics and commanders ...

[Mikhail m]

Import substitution in action. Instead of German engines, the Chinese stuck. And in case of tension with the Germans or the Chinese, will we purchase spare parts and accessories in Angola? Although the Germans already have a problem.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Mikhail M

Import substitution in action.

don't tell anyone! they know, they’ll drive into sneakers!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Mikhail M

Import substitution in action. Instead of German engines, the Chinese stuck. And in case of tension with the Germans or the Chinese, will we purchase spare parts and accessories in Angola?

in Belarus ... there are only brothers left ...

[teron]

I fully share the sad view of Andrei from Chelyabinsk on the future of the Russian fleet. It’s just some shame.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: teron

I completely share the sad look of Andrei from Chelyabinsk

I’m the fellow countryman Andryukha ... and if you heard the Sailors ... are your ears ready?

[teron]

I myself can in the wrong Russian. Useless then.
If our "messages" helped, or else just a concussion.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: teron

If our "messages" helped, or else just a concussion.

I agree.

[alcor]

I think that it’s a shame for Russia not to have its normal engine building. All members of the government who are responsible for this, receiving huge salaries, wearing expensive suits, it is important to talk about economic problems from the mailbox, and who didn’t do a damn thing for MANY YEARS to drive a filthy broom to the mines, and to get the salary back !!!!!

[Alexey RA]

Suggest your solution.
Given: there is a Kolomna plant. Which is loaded with orders of Russian Railways, with which he lives. And for which naval low-volume orders with extremely stringent requirements are just hemorrhoids: there are few incomes, and problems are above the roof. The plant reacts to all fleet requirements for the completion of engines at the pace of a sleepy sloth. It is useless to deprive the factory of fleet orders and threaten the fleet’s transition to import - the plant is only happy to get rid of hemorrhoids and stamp native diesel engines.

[alcor]

I will offer a solution. Factories producing critical defense products and other government products should be a joint stock company with a blocking stake in the state. Or should be state-owned enterprises. And, accordingly, to receive money for modernization from the budget. And in return - the diesel engine is serially driven for the country and the Ministry of Defense. And then they sold everything, now we go and ask, well, make a diesel, please!

[Alexanast]

Quote: Alexey RA

Given: there is a Kolomna plant.

Judging by the processes that take place on the KZ, soon this will not be given ...
And secondly, KZ has never produced high-speed engines ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: alkor

I think it’s a shame for Russia not to have its normal engine building

and it was ... and recently, it fell apart in the next 10 years, offensively, huh? who did they vote for?

[Serg65]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

it fell apart in the coming 10 years, offensively huh?

Yurich, since the time of Stalin there have been two factories throughout the Union, they are two in the Russian Federation too, where did Che fall apart ???

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Serg65

Yurich, since the time of Stalin there have been two factories throughout the Union, they are two in the Russian Federation too, where did Che fall apart ???

Heh heh heh ... but there are three diesel plants in Russia: Kolomna, St. Petersburg Zvezda and the Ural diesel engine plant. You should remember Chirkov’s scandalous performance on ship diesels:

V. Chirkov said that in Russia there are only three enterprises that are engaged in the production of marine power plants: Kolomensky diesel, Ural diesel, "which makes it so that after two months of cover on these plants, sea water completely eats away." In addition, there is a Zvezda plant, said the commander in chief, who showed at the Marine Salon an engine of his own design, but actually made in Austria.
"And where in Russia to get the metal from which this engine will be made? Are we able to make such cases and such parts in Russia? No," said the commander in chief.

Moreover, UDMZ, which is surprising, recognized its cant.

[Serg65]

Hello Alexey

Quote: Alexey RA

three diesel plants in the Russian Federation

Well, my friend, I have not met a UDMZ diesel engine in my practice! But the Russian diesel forgot, I repent , only the Russian Miracle was put on auxiliary vehicles, they were not on combat ships. 6 DR 300 - it was really a MIRACLE !!!

[KVU-NSVD]

It was created for civilian courts, where the load on the power plant is completely different, and the “naval” speed limits it simply will not pull, which will surely manifest itself in the future.

That is, they saw the rake, but came .... This RTO was vital for the country's defense and could not wait for the Yaroslavl motor? Now a constant popos on endless breakdowns and downtime? Whom did the Chinese grease?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

This RTO was vital for the country's defense and could not wait for the Yaroslavl engine?

Yaroslavsky? But was there not originally a star from the "Star" - M507A?

M507A - an engine consisting of two 56-cylinder compartments (diesels), each of which works on its own shaft. The compartments are interconnected by the main gear transmitting rotation from the crankshafts of the compartments to the power take-off flange.

© PJSC "Star"
EMNIP, diesel for the fleet, we do St. Petersburg "Star" (boats and small ships) and Kolomna.

[KVU-NSVD]

You're right . Non-specialist and could confuse. It should have written "domestic." I apologize for the inaccuracy. I'm working on bugs.

[Lexus]

diesel for the fleet we do St. Petersburg "Star" (boats and small ships) and Kolomna.

The epic with German diesels has been going on for almost 20 years. When export contracts went, the customer (Vietnam) wished to see them on our ships. For modifications of the domestic Navy, it was originally planned to install precisely the Kolomna diesel engines. Because there is no and no trust in the Germans. Where everything went - here and without me in the comments everything was already described in detail.

[askort154]

The article is belated. Judging by the photo, a solution has already been found. Tug him in the ass and go! Real import substitution!

[Lesorub]

So they faced with the fact that there is no production of their own (in the USSR they built it themselves, they couldn’t - they took a license), Yes, it is economically profitable to buy “as if” for single models, but the country is currently building many models of military equipment for which it’s necessary production!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Lesorub

So they were faced with the fact that there is no production of their own (in the USSR they built themselves, they could not - they took a license),

and this is great sadness, and not the joy of the "liberals" ... "to poke my pockets" -not to lead the country ...

[Serg65]

Quote: Lesorub

(in the USSR they built themselves, they could not - they took a license

In the USSR, 80% of diesel engines were purchased in Finland and Denmark, but Soviet ones (especially Kolomna) were not expressed except for the mat and the words were almost the same, only Russia in the USSR

Quote: alkor

it’s a shame for Russia not to have its normal engine building. All members of the government who are responsible for this, receiving huge salaries, wearing expensive suits, it is important to talk about economic problems from the mailbox, and who didn’t do a damn thing for MANY YEARS to drive a filthy broom to the mines, and to get the salary back !!!!!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Serg65

In the USSR, 80% of diesel engines were purchased in Finland

hmm ... but what about the joint venture with the Finnish Värtsilä? Ordered to live long, or the assortment is not the same?

[Serg65]

Quote: Gregory_45

But what about the joint venture with the Finnish Värtsilä?

We had the originals of licenses I have not met

[Stirbjorn]

Hmmm, so the sanctions still affect ... but how did they laugh at the Germans, like they say we’ll buy from the Chinese now, and the Germans will be left without money

[ul_vitalii]

They got into a mess, they made the whole line of ships in disagreement, the word license is not for China, they do everything in their own way.

[Yura Kharlamov]

Chinese engine? SHAME

[Hariton laptev]

Why do we deliver for strategic industries from abroad? And if war happened, and what spare parts will we ask them ?? But will a large amount of equipment be needed again leng lease will go ???

[Herculesic]

Have sailed! A shame! Then only the bulk purchase of Chinese military equipment! The fleet of the authorities in the stepsons - hence the long-term construction, and Chinese engines for warships!

[kepmor]

we have the whole country one big stepson ....

[Sergeant71]

There are alternative solutions! Sails, oars!
And if without jokes, then the misfortune is complete sadness. Already with RTOs problems have begun. Really, for 4 years, I don’t speak for the previous decades, it was impossible to attend to the creation of even a low-power diesel engine? Well, these are not the most complicated gas turbine engines, with which there is a lot of trouble! These are the simplest engines. It seems that everyone - Moscow Region, state corporations, the government, BEGIN everything.

[NOMADE]

No, they are only able to create "business jets" based on the Tu-160
In fact, there is not one normal SEU not yet. The fact that they built a test bench and silence .. Everyone does not care

[q75agent]

we mean engines, and pride doesn’t allow shock UAVs ????

[Komissar 4K]

Surely we have no less decent engines! Why shove this Chinese junk ???
They have already written many times that the engines are about to begin to produce, like the deadlines have come. But officials are sawing kickbacks!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Komissar 4K

Surely we have no less decent engines! Why shove this Chinese junk ???

Then, that Chinese junk is better worthy of domestic engines. The quality problem of domestic diesel engines was discussed a couple of years ago at the level of the Commander-in-Chief of the Fleet - the Ural Plant admitted that it had problems ... and everything continued.
Not from a good life, the fleet left “Star" and Kolomna on MTU.

[Komissar 4K]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: Komissar 4K

Surely we have no less decent engines! Why shove this Chinese junk ???

Then, that Chinese junk is better worthy of domestic engines. The quality problem of domestic diesel engines was discussed a couple of years ago at the level of the Commander-in-Chief of the Fleet - the Ural Plant admitted that it had problems ... and everything continued.
Not from a good life, the fleet left “Star" and Kolomna on MTU.

Those. we LIE ??? How so ??? This is some kind of revelation from Navalny.

[Kurare]

Quote: Alexey RA

Not from a good life, the fleet left “Star" and Kolomna on MTU.

We switched from Russian to German engines, mainly due to the fact that money had to be invested in our production, and considerable. And everything is ready for MTU, the engine is beautiful and there are no problems with production.
It was precisely “a good” life that they left: there was money, but they did not want to work additionally.

[donavi49]

There is a complex.

1) Who will pay? Creating a diesel engine and production for it, not the reanimation of the 50 summer unit, but a decent +/- engine at the level of the current generation, will be expensive and take some time.

2) Where can I get technology? Again, ideally, you need to take a license from someone and make an engine on the basis of this, because a gap of more than a generation just cannot be passed.

3) Download.

Kolomna, for example, accumulates funds through large commercial sales (Diesel units). She now made quite a modern diesel engine D500 - which is trying, far from without problems, to launch in a series. However, it has a load, there is economic efficiency and federal assistance helped them. For the fleet, they will make the D500 option - but much later than the 2020. While they are focused exclusively on diesel locomotives.


The trouble is that RTOs need a different engine. It was possible to put a high-speed from the Star - which Khrushchev had yet to find by the Secretary General. But there is a complex of problems, firstly the Chinese are better in the background, secondly the ship itself was designed for a fundamentally different unit.

As a result, they chose a Chinese for this type of RTOs - since it is closest to MTU in terms of its main characteristics and the amount of modifications for it is minimal.

But what am I talking about? Say they invested a lot of money - they made a normal +/- diesel for a small displacement. What's next? With the level of orders in 2-3 diesel per year - its cost will be fantastic. Kolomna again compensate for this by the fact that the main shaft goes to diesel locomotives. This type of diesel engine will not work. Consequently, there will be either full-platinum diesel engines (and as a result, a corvette / RTO at a price of a third of Burke) or we need to look for a load for the enterprise.

Actually this is the answer why the same Deutz left the market. No big load - the end.

[kepmor]

I will disappoint you ... "just about" lasts for decades ... and is unlikely to come in the coming years ...
a good diesel engine is a high-tech unit, especially a ship unit with working speeds from 800 to 2000 ...
so far only the states, Japanese, Germans, British, Swedes and Finns have brought technology to mind ... though Koreans are also close to this ...

[next322]

from the entire modern defense industry of the Russian Federation, military shipbuilding is in full contact, and the personnel who rule there simply amaze ...... delirium about destroyers is replaced by delirium about some kind of aircraft carriers, UDC, in fact, even a 950-ton simple river-sea corvette is under construction for 5 years , about BDK gren and do not want to talk

[Doliva63]

Import substitution in action. And what, on the release of their pretty saved + rollback, probably small. In general, from all sides it’s good to be a patriot at the feeding trough! But once it has to end - you can’t always mock the country forever.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Doliva63

Import substitution in action. And what, on the release of their pretty saved + rollback, probably small.

So ... the problem is that the release of its uninteresting in the first place for the manufacturer. The same natural monopoly on powerful ship diesels lives on orders from Russian Railways and naval orders are not interesting to him.

[16112014nk]

The import substitution program performed by our production of liberals works like this - some import suppliers simply change to others (in this case, they changed the Germans to the Chinese).

[Lexus]

I suspect that on Chinese diesels the nameplates were changed to report on "import substitution", and those looking at it with a guarantee were sent to hell.

[16112014nk]

The development of the situation in this vein is 99%. The credo of the "effective managers" unites ... sorry, to deceive the neighbor. And far too. And everything in your pocket.
And then - even though the grass does not grow.

[silver169]

You need to develop your own, and not chase overseas. Russia has come, and the production of marine diesel engines is not able to establish. Why then jump out of my pants. What a great power there. There is only one laugh. Sit quietly and suck American pussy.

[kepmor]

judging by your flag, you’ve been doing suction for more than a century ... go on ...
and here we’ll somehow figure it out ... without forever sucking ....

[silver169]

Judging by your delirium, suction is exactly yours. We’ll figure it out, for almost 30 years now we’ve been sorting it out, for the fun of the whole world.

[Alexey-74]

Chinese consumer goods in action at the Russian Navy !!!

[Evgeniy667b]

The bulk of the enterprises went around the world Not Under the “Ural Nugget” (EBN), but under Putin (about 70 thousand). If he comes out for the next term, it will only get worse.

[ZVO]

Well, almost everyone was noted ...

But no one wrote about this engineers in close collaboration with the fleet eliminate problems. In the near future, elements of a two-stage turbocharging system will come and eliminate the shortcomings.

Apparently, St. Petersburg LLC Marine Propulsion Systems, which designed the Machine Complex, is to blame for what happened.
And designed - completely mediocre. If you need to order "elements of a two-stage turbocharging system."
Those. about the characteristics of the purchased product - none of OUR engineers - even did not look into the manuals ...

The Chinese of this plant have been making diesel for 60 years.
30 years they produce Deutz diesel
For 10 years they produce MAN Diesel AG diesel engines.

however, the manufacturing company Deutz-MWM has already left the market.

- she did not leave the market - she became part of Caterpillar. And now it's just called differently. She did not stop making engines.

To the author - one should at least learn to use the information.

[Dazdranagon]

It is sad that there are none ...

[kig]

Japanese mother, well, no words. Well, they managed to put German engines on five ships, and where will you take the spare parts? Surely spare parts are also under sanctions. I understand that there are none of ours - and who finally prevented them from being made? There was a period when there was money in the country, and what did they spend it on? Well, the CHINESE MAIN ENGINE FOR THE RUSSIAN SHIP is already the top of moronism.

[god-given]

soon we won’t be able to release oar trays without Chinese technology

[Anti-skid]

Really even for such babies we can’t produce domestic dviglo?

[genpolitproject]

Trusting the PRC means not trusting yourself ...

[Wolka]

what about import substitution ...

[From Tver]

Rooks are outdated, and diesel is just FIRE.

[kefan]

Well, what else was to be expected from products from China.

[Overlock]

German MTU 16V4000M90 engines were planned to be delivered to all nine ships of the Buyanov-M series under construction. However, due to the interruption of supplies caused by the sanctions, MTU diesels were installed on only five ships transferred to the fleet in 2014-2015.

On the remaining ships of the series, the command of the Navy decided to put Chinese diesel engines - 20-cylinder CHD622V20 with a power of 3200 kW.

According to Alexander Arkhipov, chief designer of the Pulsar M150 diesel engine of PJSC Zvezda, the engine from China for the ships of project 21631 is a licensed copy of the German Deutz TBD622 diesel engine, while the manufacturer Deutz-MWM has already left the market.

A source in one of the engine-building companies, familiar with the situation, told the publication that the engine CHD622V20 did not fully meet the requirements for the power plant of a warship.

“It was created for civilian courts, where completely different loads on the power plant, and“ naval ”speed modes, it simply won’t pull, which will certainly appear in the future,” the source added.

He emphasized that the Chinese diesel engine is less reliable and consumes more fuel compared to MTU, which they managed to put on the first Buyan-M.
http://in24.org/technology/30630?utm_source=warfi
les.ru

[Sands Careers General]

Kroilovo leads to the popalov. Just think of it, buy a Chinese engine.

[Lexus]

Shame, and nothing more!

[Fury]

Why is there no reliable Russian engine ?! Because there is no Russian peasant in the Kremlin, a patriot of Russia!

[Prutkov]

Rolls-Royce gas turbines are on American Zwolvt. And no one shouts. There is not a single country that has done everything at home. Now it’s not necessary to “spawn”, but to protect foreign suppliers from sanctions. To do this, it would be worth secret all contacts. The first step is to wipe out all the audit offices, financial rating agencies from countries that have imposed sanctions. Information leaks through them.

[LeonidL]

You need to set your own, and not "fraternal Chinese quality." In case of their own, there is someone to ask. Import substitution must be complete!

[syndicalist]

Quote: siberalt

We still cannot import substitute in this matter after liberal devastation

In-in. For 18 years we have overcome this “liberal” one and the end is not even visible. I was born 12 years after the Second World War and I do not remember any signs of devastation. But there were completely destroyed cities and huge casualties. Just a riddle of a century somehow!

[Romanenko]

It wasn’t on a good day that someone visited the Moscow Region with the idea of ​​installing Chinese engines on our MKPs, albeit Doitz under license.
Probably, within the framework of the state defense order, the Kolomna plant could also strain up - they do pretty well. Why give money to the side, especially under such responsible orders?
Again, is Serdyukov’s experience haunting someone?
Guys, wake up, this is our defense, and not only defense ...

Remember in childhood:
There was no nail - the horseshoe fell,
The horseshoe fell - the horse limped,
The horse was lame - the commander was killed,
The army is broken, the army is running
The enemy enters the city of prisoners not sparing
From the fact that there was no nail in the forge ...

[Slam]

Quote: kapitan92

Buying them through shell companies registered in South America, Africa, etc., where they were previously used, is no problem. It is bought all as accessories or spare parts.

This can be called workarounds, or a way of fraud. Something is not like 1/16 of the land for a superpower, even for raw.