Questions to the Ministry of Defense with no hope of response

293
Russia has lost another officer in Syria. Shot down another Russian plane. And the customary silence of the military department about this.

Questions to the Ministry of Defense with no hope of response




But no, we got revenge ... We hit a high-precision one. weapons and destroyed more 30 militants! Has it made anyone feel better? Filippov's family? Strange kind of arithmetic in our MO.

Many are already aware that our Su-25 has been shot down in the province of Idlib. Militants have published a video of an airplane falling with a burning wing, and even more. The representative of the "Syrian People's Army" confirmed the destruction of the aircraft and the pilot.

In the development of the theme appeared stories about the death of the Russian pilot, Major Roman Filippov. And the stories are quite interesting. I shot back to the last bullet and when I realized that he was facing a captivity, he blew up a grenade. He took a couple of militants with him.

The story is quite true. Filippov is not a boy and he perfectly imagined that he was facing a captivity. Therefore, we will not discuss the feat of this soldier. Shot, did not surrender, it means that already a hero. And his memory will remain in stories parts where he served. The conversation will be somewhat different.

By the way, about the version that the media will actively promote. On the error of the militants. Allegedly, they wanted to shoot down a Syrian plane, but they shot down a Russian one. Alas, but experts say that this is utter nonsense. "Rooks" in Syria is only the VKS RF. Write off the launch of the rocket on the insane moron who does not distinguish between planes, also will not work. MANPADS moron do not give. Not automatic.

I want to talk about something else. And ask some unpleasant questions to the Ministry of Defense. To which, of course, there will be no answer.

We finished the operation in Syria or continue?

Will we start to notice an increase in danger to Russian soldiers and military facilities in Syria?

Why do we create for our warriors "situations of heroism"?


Here, at VO, we still realized that, if a fighter of a cover fighter relying on the situation, such as the Su-24, relied on the situation with the Su-35, the Turks would have signified their presence on their F-15. And there would be no need to impose sanctions, nothing. And the star would be useful to someone else.

About the same today. Question: why Su-25, attack aircraft, cut in the area, performing the role of either a scout or a single drummer?

The Defense Ministry pays so much that it has the right to send to death?

But the situation is not considered differently. A single plane over an area occupied by enemies. Well armed. And what, they were all there should have scattered at the sight of "Rook"?

Only according to official data, that confirmed by the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, we have already lost 44 troops in Syria. Now 45.

I don’t even want to talk about fairly large losses of aircraft. In real combat, 5 of our helicopters (2 transport and 3 drums), two planes, Su-24 (bomber), Su-25 (attack aircraft) are destroyed.

But there were also other losses. Mi-24, crashed "for technical reasons" near the airfield of Ham. MiG-29 and Su-33, which fell when landing on an aircraft carrier. Su-24, which exploded when taking off at Hamim last fall.

Now many people compare the situation in Syria with the situation in which the Soviet Army was in Afghanistan. "Suck" every action from all sides. It's right here, it's not right. But comparing these events is stupid. More precisely, unprofessional.

In Afghanistan, the Soviet Army acted independently. And only occasionally used local troops. Readers will remember our analysis of the attack on Hamim. When we quite rightly asked a question about the protection of the airfield. In Afghanistan it was. Airfield in Bagram how many times was attacked? And it ended only after we took control of the security on 40-50 km.

In Syria, we "help" the Syrian army. And we are "friends" with allies like Turkey and Iran. About "active interaction with the coalition," I think there is no need to write. Therefore, the danger increases.

We cannot control the defense zones on our own. "Well, I could not, could not" will sound often. From the territory controlled by one of the "allies," they attacked ... "Well, I couldn't ..."

But we go ahead and ask a very important question:Do we win or lose in Syria?

A simple question at first glance. And the answer is no! Won? Then why hit the Rook? Why aren’t territory cleansing done?

Lost? To whom? Where are those who tried to fight with us? “There are no others, but those are far away” ... President Putin reported, if not on victory, then ...

President Assad seems to be alive, healthy and governs the country. ISIS * as a pseudo-state disappeared. So you didn't lose?

In general, for this global "fight against terrorism", it is like something for us ... Along the lampas. That is honest. We really feel sorry for the guys who die not because they do not know how themselves, but because there they do not know how at the top.

All these reports that won, dispersed, exterminated ... It is clear that Peremoga is needed. No, we have no bravura reports today.

Just then, after all these statements, the next victims on the altar of war somehow do not look very good.

Approximately the same as the after-silence of our military ministry.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +95
      5 February 2018 06: 15
      I will not roll a barrel to my own Armed Forces, knowing a little the situation from the inside, but "war as in war". While declaring publicly that the operation in Syria was phasing out, the Supreme set political goals, first of all, but the political goals of the country's top leadership are always a strategy, since the real momentary situation and the events taking place in it most often relate to tactical events! The fact that the attack aircraft went unaccompanied, where and why - this is the level of the commander of the group, or the one below - who needs to figure it out!
      Which is true, unfortunately, a person can not be returned, but without any pathos:"such a job!"
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +25
        5 February 2018 07: 21
        Quote: Finches
        Declaring publicly about curtailing the operation in Syria, the Supreme set political goals, first of all, but the political goals of the country's top leadership are always a strategy, since the real momentary situation and the events occurring in it, most often relate to tactical events!

        I totally agree. To what extent the operation as a whole has been unsuccessfully completed, it is enough to read the foreign press, which with malice confirms the success of Russia.
        The fact that the attack from the MANPADS should not die.
        1. +14
          5 February 2018 08: 06
          Quote: Olgovich
          The fact that the attack from the MANPADS should not die.

          But this is far from a fact!
          Sushki returned with a torn ass, but, alas, rarely ...
          This is still not a tank.
          1. +25
            5 February 2018 13: 17
            Quote: Finches
            While declaring publicly that the operation in Syria was curtailed, the Supreme set political goals, above all, but the political goals of the country's top leadership

            Let's ask a question then about political goals! What did they consist of? To give Kurds and Turks half of the country, and 80% of Syrian oil, and present this as a brilliant victory?
            1. +3
              5 February 2018 16: 35
              Quote: Stas157

              Let's ask a question then about political goals! What did they consist of? To give Kurds and Turks half of the country, and 80% of Syrian oil, and present it as a brilliant victory.

              It seems to everyone that this problem is more likely political than military. And in politics, we have the principle: "the bottom link is paying for everything" (Kudrin, Gref and other financial). In terms of providing a resource, this rule can be expanded as “residual security”. At the same time, the lower link should be understood not only as people (salaries, pensions, other social programs), but also measures associated with unproductive costs. As the stability of the functioning of the system (country in this case). Now we do not have a war in Syria, we won, but, due to objective reasons - not quite to the end. Therefore, there is a military presence and, of course, there are problems - you have to fight, people die, but there is no pressure, because of "it is clear that the matter is dark." Someone has to make a decision. Well, there will be no problems with this, only in the article on VO dated January 31.01.2018, XNUMX, “When will Putin strike?” The following characteristic is given: "Putin makes only obvious moves, when it’s impossible to act otherwise, so the decision-making process is delayed ..." So why are we tryndim? Everything will be, it is only necessary to accumulate more of such excesses, when everything becomes obvious and it is certainly impossible to endure further, then we will think a little and correct the defect. And if in fact, then the classics were right in asserting that "politics is a concentrated expression of the economy," and "war is the continuation of politics by other means." I think it’s clear what now everything ultimately rests on.
            2. +1
              7 February 2018 11: 19
              Quote: Stas157
              Let's ask a question then about political goals! What did they consist of?

              The fight for Europe’s gas market, in which case Gazprom is losing part of the market, money managers, a man whose name should not be called their loyalty ... therefore they will mix into dust for such a lofty goal
          2. +1
            6 February 2018 01: 22
            It was also stated not to fly below 5 km, and he flew in 2 km, is this the question? As always, the Russian bezobabernost, although the army must follow orders.
            1. +9
              6 February 2018 12: 39
              Quote: kava61
              It was also stated not to fly below 5 km, and he flew in 2 km, is this the question? As always, the Russian bezobabernost, although the army must follow orders.

              it is not clear of course why he walked so low, but the sofa, the liberal experts of this forum got another topic for watering dirt on power! everyone is trying to make himself clever!
            2. +6
              8 February 2018 14: 42
              The fact that he was traveling at a level of 2 km was not his desire, probably the command of the unit (usually the regiment commander, navigator of the regiment, etc.) set him this task, and that’s why he was assigned this task by adult uncles with raspberry buttonholes.
          3. 0
            9 February 2018 14: 35
            The Su-25 was designed to protect the pilot, not the plane.
        2. +10
          5 February 2018 08: 36
          Are MANPADS complexes primarily against attack aircraft and helicopters (i.e. low-flying targets) invented?
          So it’s not a fact ... Unfortunately
          1. +2
            5 February 2018 09: 52
            Quote: ArikKhab
            Are MANPADS complexes primarily against attack aircraft and helicopters (i.e. low-flying targets) invented?

            Of course, against them. But the attack aircraft can work from heights inaccessible MANPADS.
            1. +7
              5 February 2018 11: 55
              You are mocking Verba takes up to 10 km, the American counterpart is the same. Ceiling Su-25 10 km
              1. +24
                5 February 2018 13: 06
                Quote: reibert
                You are mocking Verba takes up to 10 km, the American counterpart is the same.

                Modern complexes of MANPADS "take" up to 4,5 km. Learn the materiel.
                1. +6
                  5 February 2018 13: 24
                  I agree, the ceiling is 4500m, it’s not in vain that today they announced flights of at least 5000 m. The question is, why unaccompanied?
                  To the deceased - Bright Memory.
                  1. +5
                    5 February 2018 13: 28
                    [quote = 108- guards pdp] I agree, the ceiling is 4500m, it’s not for nothing that today they announced flights of at least 5000 m. The question is, why unaccompanied?
                    . [/ Quote]
                    The question is different, what did he do there?
                    Under the contract, the videoconferencing does not work in these zones.
                    banning the work of the videoconferencing at 5.31
                    [/ Quote]
                    1. +26
                      5 February 2018 14: 05
                      Quote: karish
                      The question is different, what did he do there?
                      Under the contract, the videoconferencing does not work in these zones.

                      You, as a representative of Israel, before asking such questions, answer what your planes are doing in the skies of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan? By what right do they fly there (also bomb!)?
                    2. +1
                      7 February 2018 11: 22
                      Quote: karish
                      The question is different, what did he do there?

                      Arrange a small bombing of the civilian population so that it runs to Turkey, which does not need refugees, you know, two partners, such cooperation
                      1. +1
                        7 February 2018 23: 10
                        Quote: sa-ag
                        arrange a small bombing of civilians

                        She ...)) This is your favorite game, everyone in the world knows this. Especially if the population celebrates a wedding, you can ditch it.
                    3. Maz
                      0
                      11 February 2018 02: 32
                      The question is different, what did he do there?
                      Under the contract, the videoconferencing does not work in these zones.
                      banning the work of the videoconferencing at 5.31
                      [/ quote] [/ quote]
                      I would ask. What’s yours shy away? Also at the request of Assad?
                  2. +4
                    5 February 2018 21: 15
                    Explain the purpose of escort in this case.
                    In the video posted by the gunmen who shot down the plane, the shooting of heat traps, if any, was not visible. At the same time, the head of the MANPADS guidance, judging by the nature of the lesion, most likely was with infrared guidance.
                    The deceased is blessed memory.
                2. 412
                  +1
                  6 February 2018 17: 46
                  "You are mocking Verba takes up to 10 km, the American counterpart is the same."
                  "Modern complexes of MANPADS" take "up to 4,5 km. Study the materiel."
                  This is an inclined range and not a height.
                  1. +5
                    6 February 2018 20: 14
                    Quote: 412
                    "You are mocking Verba takes up to 10 km, the American counterpart is the same."
                    "Modern complexes of MANPADS" take "up to 4,5 km. Study the materiel."
                    This is an inclined range and not a height.

                    YOU know, mister good! In my time there was such a saying: “It’s better to have a daughter as a prostitute than as a corporal’s son”, this is not for you, but what it was!
                    TTX MANPADS "Willow".
                    Range of action, m: 500-6400
                    Defeat height, m: 10—4500
                    Weight of military equipment, kg: 17,25
                    The maximum speed of the hit targets at the opposite courses, m / s: 400
                    The maximum speed of the hit targets at the catch-up courses, m / s: 320
                    The number of spectral channels OGS: 3
                    Application, on land in air and at sea with mobile and fixed carriers.
                    Even a stupid Internet user, nowadays, knows what a search engine is. It is natural not to you, but to stupid users. hi
                    1. 412
                      0
                      8 February 2018 02: 30
                      And what kind of corrupt captain drove the Verba to the militants, didn’t you meet the chance in the search engine?
                3. +3
                  8 February 2018 00: 51
                  Modern complexes of MANPADS "take" up to 4,5 km. Learn the materiel.

                  No.
                  It is necessary to study history. And he takes (stinger) at level 9100, though the An-12 at Vist. = 580 km / h. I personally saw in (distant 1987) how they shot down from 4800 (Naer. = 435 m.), While moving away from the Mi-6 point. We calculated the slant range, it turned out 13 km. In how.
              2. 0
                7 February 2018 23: 14
                Ceiling Su 25 5-7,5km, about 10km told when they thought up the reason for the destruction of the Boeing. Su 25 in the form in which they are in the arsenal of the Russian Federation has long been outdated, this applies to both flight and high-altitude performance characteristics, as well as the LMS and weapons. The pilot is forced to descend below 5m in order to see something and get there. So questions about what they say, and why it was flying so low, are not appropriate, because they are forced to.
            2. 0
              9 February 2018 14: 36
              may work, but the efficiency drops.
        3. 0
          6 February 2018 03: 01
          Guys, why sing. Putin is fighting according to Amer’s rules. He announced the withdrawal of troops and quietly added five times more, or maybe ten, in Syria.
        4. +2
          9 February 2018 20: 31
          Something I didn’t hear about that the NATO coalition in the SAR that "failed" with its tasks lost at least one plane, unlike the "victorious" Russian Federation. I have 30 years of service in the SA and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and have forever cut off on my nose from the time of lieutenant - you can’t tell people standing in the ranks anything clever - say it at ease - get out. And do not announce to them what really is not. After all, people know about this. The foreign press is not authority, but ours is even more so.
          1. 0
            9 February 2018 20: 38
            Quote: tecnik
            Something I didn’t hear about that the NATO coalition in the SAR that "failed" with its tasks lost at least one plane, unlike the "victorious" Russian Federation.

            And I didn’t hear something about the loss of our VKS aircraft over the territory of Iraq ....
            By the way, here is a part of the Pentagon report from 2016
            According to statistics announced on Monday, the US Air Force lost 6 people over the past 19 months as a result of an ongoing air operation in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan against the terrorist group Daesh (“Islamic State”). The representative of the US agency did not disclose exact information about the number of pilots of combat aircraft and helicopters included in this list, as well as their names.
      3. +5
        5 February 2018 08: 12
        oil in exchange for blood

        life --- on geopolitics on the BBV, we continue to squeeze the influence of amers from the region.
        we pay to discredit some advisers so that they are replaced by others loyal to our interests
      4. +41
        5 February 2018 10: 15
        Well, of course, "in war as in war." Only in the war it was this major, and you are in a warm chair in your school. And it was he who blew himself up with a grenade, not you. Only rhetoric changes dramatically when it comes to something personally.
        Yes, and flew a couple with b / c. Why did not cover, it is not clear.
        Even when it all started, I wrote my opinion about the Syrian army. I was there on a business trip. And if I was a simple captain, I understood that even then they are no warriors, then why they do not understand this in the General Staff.
        Why has not been raised VPSK, the duty couple of the same Dryers for a strike. A Caliber strike after a couple of hours, with the destruction of 30 militants (and even then by radio interception) is a shooting from a cannon at sparrows, it looks impressive, but meaningless in essence.
        What we are fighting for is not clear. If by agreement, it was necessary to start in 11, and not in 3 of the year when everything is already in the trash. Easier to crush in the bud.
        Many questions, no answers
        1. +4
          5 February 2018 11: 45
          Everyone has their own destiny! hi You then, apparently, a noble warrior ....
        2. +54
          5 February 2018 13: 54
          Quote: basmach
          If under the contract, so it was necessary to begin in 11, and not through 3, when everything is already in the trash. It is easier to crush in the bud.
          So, there were international sanctions against Syria (we observed them), and after the "black lord" he said that the fight against terrorism should be a common, international affair (after the United States wrought in Iraq). Russia began to help fight ISIS. Squeeze in the bud ... Here you can remember about Ukraine, as having the fact of an anti-constitutional coup, the legitimate president and prime minister on their territory from a country, a member of the CIS, we seized one Crimea, and got rid of sanctions and harassment ... that the entire south-east of the former Ukraine was waiting for Russia, gave signals. We did not recognize the choice of Donbass, but recognized the farce with the elections held by the junta. Probably, there is no multipolar world, it can not be when you pick up capitalism from the dustbin of history, you get into someone else's system, you live by the rules created under the owners of this system, and you keep "acquired by overwork" from your enemies. Cheeks to inflate, this one, and to have the rigid position, absolutely another. Therefore, a small North Korea goes to the Olympics, and our power, wiping itself from the spit of "partners", is not put into anything. When we will have true independence, then there will be what used to be called - all the power of the Soviet Union is behind me ...
          1. +4
            5 February 2018 16: 12
            Bravo! You can’t say better.
        3. +26
          5 February 2018 16: 07
          We all need to understand one simple and unpleasant thing: the Russian Armed Forces, at the moment, do not fulfill the International Duty, but serve the interests of certain, God forbid, domestic, economic circles. For better or worse, I don’t know. Due to this, the Britons crushed half the world for themselves, at one time. War should be profitable, not loss. And what are they putting us in, despite all our “Mighty Power”, the Olympics show. If they are afraid of you, it would never occur to anyone to mock you.
          1. +3
            5 February 2018 19: 33
            yes 2% of GDP (of the world) triumphs
            Misha2% at one time was ridiculous, now it is a prophecy.
            brought the Bear to 2%
            1. 0
              7 February 2018 23: 20
              Quote: antivirus
              brought the Bear to 2%


              Well, yes, Misha told who else ... Only under Misha the Russian Federation wrote off a bunch of debts and the economy grew at a penny for oil prices.
              1. 0
                8 February 2018 07: 58
                I agree, everyone was in business
                the "extra" capacities of Soviet industry were banked (bankrupt) and now ...
          2. 0
            8 February 2018 09: 03
            Now there is no longer the concept of “International Debt,” but there is how you correctly noted “serving the interests of certain circles.” What should you do with this? our country has rushed to the very worst on these understandings.
            And yet in my opinion everything will be fine with us.
            "For Faith, not for the Tsar, and for the Fatherland!"
      5. +2
        5 February 2018 11: 33
        How and when did you intermarry with the Armed Forces, and which state?
        You saw a photo of the Minister of Defense Shoigu, where you saw the symbols of at least some state on it, and to whom do these native Armed Forces belong to you?
        1. +7
          5 February 2018 11: 49
          I, with your permission, have served in the Armed Forces since my military service and continue to serve ... For over a quarter of a century, I exceeded! I don’t really like the office uniform, but there is a sticker on the chest if you try to take a closer look: "Armed Forces of Russia! " As for the fleet, the Andreevsky Flag flies on ships, and what did you want to see there - the flag of Belarus? laughing
      6. +2
        5 February 2018 11: 45
        I wanted to write so much, but you said everything shorter and much clearer!
      7. +2
        5 February 2018 11: 53
        What kind of attack aircraft are you talking about ??? Would a fighter help the situation with MANPADS ??? This episode simply speaks of advantage. In some cases, MANPADS against front-line aviation
        1. Urs
          +10
          5 February 2018 14: 09
          The advantage of whom over whom you are explaining to us is not clear.
          But the fact that covering the stormtroopers is necessary is a fact, fixed by blood.
          And the fighter, with the pilot trained in such a maneuver, easily takes the MANPADS missile at himself and then leaves the anti-ballistic maneuver (sorry for the tautology), for the skeptics I say I myself saw such a chip in one warm country.
          1. 0
            7 February 2018 23: 21
            Quote: Urs
            And the fighter, with the pilot trained in such a maneuver, easily takes the MANPADS missile at himself and then leaves the anti-ballistic maneuver

            It seems to be all right, but there is one caveat - for this, the cover fighter pilot must see the launch of the rocket in order to have time to distract it with itself ...
      8. +12
        5 February 2018 12: 29
        I agree, that's right. And the vile article ...
        1. +5
          6 February 2018 23: 40
          The article is just good. And the questions are asked the most specific and therefore extremely uncomfortable.
        2. 0
          7 February 2018 20: 05
          That's right - the vile article. It seems to be written with concern for the personnel of the videoconferencing, but the article is saturated with some kind of anti-army and anti-state spirit. And the author knows the answers perfectly to his questions. But the main thing for the author is to raise doubts about the need for an operation in Syria and the professionalism of command and pilots. A hastily written article when there is still no complete or at least sufficient information.
      9. 0
        5 February 2018 12: 41
        Right, but sorry guy.
      10. 0
        5 February 2018 16: 19
        I agree with you, and this would contribute to a political settlement of the Syrians themselves
      11. +2
        6 February 2018 22: 54
        IL-2 attack aircraft flew without escort only in the 1941 year, when there were few fighters
      12. +1
        7 February 2018 23: 32
        But it’s necessary to roll. It’s a disgrace even when in August 96 in the formidable they threw their own to certain death. When for 40 years they could not organize a PSO. When all the achievements are only in the news. For the state it is insulting and embarrassing.
      13. +2
        8 February 2018 10: 15
        Attack aircraft were a couple. As for the "questions" of the author: this is just an attempt at provocation.
        Putting on epaulettes each officer knows that his work, if necessary, is war. All that is associated with whining about whether there is a need or not - Then there is no need to wear a uniform. Those who do not like those do not discuss orders and take off their uniforms. The author apparently stubbornly believes that the army goes only for wages, housing and a happy life in the rear. Those who think so - most likely for such an opinion receive a salary from a free press feeding from the hands of the enemy. Apparently they are trying to present us with the fact that the terrorists who seized and killed hostages in our country are grace. Apparently they are trying to hand this grace to us from the hands of the Pentagon. The enemy must be beaten. Even if it does not like shit, liberals and other evil spirits. Demagogues, provocateurs, instigators, saboteurs must at least be sent to quarries. There will be at least some benefit from them. I do not like to live in peace - a suitcase, a train station, a geyropa ..... Although they are not needed there. They are paid for it here, but they will have to be kept there.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. +41
        5 February 2018 06: 47
        Quote: New
        and interact with a pair of helicopters, which in the event of a bailout pilot could save him.

        But will the noble don tell me - how would a couple of helicopters keep up with the SU-25?
        Or if it was a helicopter that was shot down, then did it warm your soul more?

        Well, didn’t you please Shoigu? Is the house too luxurious?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +35
            5 February 2018 07: 07
            Quote: New
            I, unlike you, try to find the real reasons for the tragedy

            Only it turns out at you ... not really, to put it mildly if.
            Here's something like here:
            Quote: New
            This thing good Put it on the locator and it will be a pain in the ass.


            Buyog Yes
            Quote: New
            if the helicopter takes off earlier, it will arrive at the destination simultaneously with the plane

            Enchanting. And who will guard the helicopter?
            In short ... to the garden. New, pancake. With old holes negative
            1. +24
              5 February 2018 08: 18
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              And who will guard the helicopter?

              Those. Is it normal for an attack aircraft to fly in splendid isolation and without the possibility of evacuation when shot down? fool Pussycat - do not try to seem like an expert where you are not. wink
              1. +28
                5 February 2018 08: 28
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Pussycat - do not try to seem like an expert where you are not

                Tell the mirror.
                Quote: New
                if the helicopter takes off earlier, it will arrive at the destination simultaneously with the plane

                And he will arrive just in the same area where the planes are shot down ... like - to guard the plane, yeah ... well, or wait for him to be shot down to evacuate the pilot.
                Yes, he himself will be beaten down first, is it really unclear?
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Those. Is it normal for an attack aircraft to fly in splendid isolation and without the possibility of evacuation when shot down?

                No. There should be an excursion from armor, helicopters, and instead of barmaley below should be friendly special forces.
                The only question is - and then what kind of woodshell is there then?
                Tell me, you are a specialist ... in everything, as you can see laughing
                1. +16
                  5 February 2018 11: 46
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  Tell me, you are a specialist ... in everything, as you can see

                  Unlike you, I am not making an expert out of myself. But I know for sure that your favorite pendos always have a rescue team with a five-minute approach time on the stream. Question - Evacuation is needed ONLY for American pilots? Why are you denying support to our pilots?
                  The following - although I am not an expert, I clearly know that attack aircraft, like attack helicopters, should work as a couple at a minimum. Why is the plane alone not causing any thoughts?
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  The only question is - and then what kind of woodshell is there then?

                  Judging by your opinion, so that the pilot could replenish the ranks of the dead heroes. negative
                  1. +6
                    6 February 2018 01: 33
                    Watch less American films, about 5 minutes of approach, they have jet helicopters, boy go on playing toys further.
                    1. 0
                      7 February 2018 23: 27
                      Well, yes, films, for example from Afghanistan, are not few films where special effects such as the A10 attack plane, F-15, Apache for supporting infantry, or Blackhawk for the wounded, who are already working a few minutes after the call. But this actually does not happen, everything was removed in Hollywood!))
              2. +3
                5 February 2018 14: 46
                This will be normal - if it flies at an unattainable altitude and will not under any circumstances fall into the "affected area". good Because it’s like the air force of the enemies was dispersed and it seems like they are looking after. Again - they really don’t tell us what the hell he was hanging around there. There is a suspicion that it was "waiting for a signal from the ground" not just like that, maybe there was a search on the MTR site and now it was necessary to find the desired target. Or maybe they found it, it’s like the video shows the moment of the Nursa strike, but why is it there and why did it bomb everything for some reason they are silent as lepers. request Maybe, finally, the MTR started to “wet” the mattresses and that's why neither they nor we stutter that the raid was effective and nailed the “white barmalei”.
                1. +2
                  6 February 2018 01: 36
                  Maybe he was looking for MANPADS and luring himself, but who knows what happened, maybe he was there and special forces were ready, the policy with arms supplies was a secret topic, like the Stingers in Afghanistan.
                  1. +2
                    6 February 2018 01: 39
                    Well, this is the wildest nonsense; if it had been sent as bait, it would certainly have been hung with heat traps, etc. And on the video - nothing at all, that is, a completely strange mission, and a low level, and notable nurses, and complete insecurity.
            2. +21
              5 February 2018 14: 17
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Enchanting. And who will guard the helicopter?

              US helicopters, as Israeli colleagues wrote here, are at a safe distance away from the place of the bombing, but always in the wings! From the landing site of pilot Roman Filippov to the deployment of Syrian troops was only 7 km. If there was a pair of Mi-24, then she could pick up a shot down pilot already at the time of his landing. It was not at all difficult, since there was not some kind of dense urban development.
              1. +13
                5 February 2018 14: 27
                Quote: Stas157
                If there was a pair of Mi-24, then she could pick up a shot down pilot already at the time of his landing

                C'mon Stas, to whom you are trying to explain the capital ones are true. Neither our Afghan experience, nor Pendosov’s authority is to him. laughing
                1. +3
                  6 February 2018 01: 38
                  If there were MANPADS, then the helicopters would have remained there, remember the operation about the pilots with the SU-24, although there were no MANPADS.
                  1. +2
                    6 February 2018 07: 05
                    Quote: kava61
                    remember the operation about the pilots with the SU-24, although there were no MANPADS.

                    Those. the second pilot with the SU-24 wasted in vain? Once so smart, study the topic of the issue of rescue operations in world practice. There, everyone has the plus or minus the same and the time of approach of the rescue group, and its composition.
          2. +13
            5 February 2018 07: 22
            Quote: New
            Doesn't the bobbin press you?

            Do not press. She is standing in the kitchen. And you (not you) she (the pan) is clearly in time!
            Quote: New
            Look at yourself in the mirror, carrying liberoid delirium.

            Well, just self-criticism!
          3. +9
            5 February 2018 08: 54
            Quote: New
            Look at yourself in the mirror, carrying liberoid delirium.

            Do not be rude Traveler agitator.
      2. +19
        5 February 2018 07: 07
        new
        I'm not an expertbut I will express my vision of the situation): why use Su25, since he is vulnerable to attack MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and guns?
        It’s immediately obvious that you are not an expert and, moreover, a shady one, not even an aviation specialist knows that the Su-25 is perfectly protected and probably the most tenacious aircraft in world aviation. But for that SAM. MANPADS and exist to bring down aircraft. Regarding the training and education of cadets, and are they not taught, before making a decision, to evaluate the situation, their strengths and means? Did you study at a military school yourself, or is it also not a specialist?
        1. +7
          5 February 2018 07: 26
          Quote: rotmistr60
          Did you study at a military school yourself, or is it also not a specialist?

          Yes, he studies at school! On a layman.
          Ethics lesson skipped.
          And liberalism from him ... somehow smacks of.
          Hey on the barge! Is Crimea ours? Did you go to the meeting of Navalny? (Question is not rotmistr60)
        2. New
          +9
          5 February 2018 07: 45
          Quote: rotmistr60
          But for that SAM. MANPADS and exist to bring down aircraft.
          You at least couple of words in a complete sentence.
          Quote: rotmistr60
          you are not an expert and, moreover, terrible, because not even an aviation specialist knows that the Su-25 is perfectly protected
          What do you mean by this that I am not aware of the performance characteristics of the Su25 attack aircraft? Is everything normal with your head?
          Quote: rotmistr60
          But for that SAM. MANPADS and exist to bring down aircraft.
          And with that, what you wanted to say: like butter. Mr. evidence or can it be commonplace or stupid? Tin.
          Quote: rotmistr60
          and are they not taught to evaluate the situation before making a decision,
          We see very well how they teach in military institutions on specific results.
          1. +15
            5 February 2018 08: 25
            We see very well how they teach in military institutions on specific results.
            What can you personally see without having any relation to the army?
            Is everything normal with your head?
            It’s just fine with me, but apparently you have problems not only with knowledge, but also with the culture of behavior.
            1. New
              +9
              5 February 2018 08: 32
              Quote: rotmistr60
              What can you personally see without having any relation to the army?
              I wrote to you and others like you that you have no arguments, and when a person with no arguments slips into insults, slander, sticking labels, looking for spelling errors, or how you - appeal to a lack of relation to the army - all this is a sign of trolling.
              Quote: rotmistr60
              It’s just fine with me, but apparently you have problems not only with knowledge, but also with the culture of behavior.
              Where do you have knowledge and culture of behavior: show how it manifests. I read your first comment and found no mind or culture there.
              1. +21
                5 February 2018 08: 42
                Quote: New
                all this is a sign of trolling

                But this - what, excuse me, is a sign?
                Quote: New
                Doesn't the potato squeeze you? ...
                Doesn't the pan really shake you? ...
                Look at yourself in the mirror, carrying liberoid delirium

                You wrote stupidity. They pointed you to this. And you got to be rude ...
                Not good No.
          2. +9
            5 February 2018 11: 58
            Quote: New
            We see very well how they teach in military institutions on specific results.

            Just in Syria, the results are excellent. Here are just some particularly "advanced thinkers" who do not want to understand that there is a war going on. And in war there are losses. Of course, from the height of the sofa, it’s hard to understand, but to pour dirt on the armed forces, this is always welcome for “non-specialists”. You forgot to ask what and how do the aerospace forces in Syria understand. Sincerely sorry for the pilot, the eternal memory of the hero.
        3. +8
          5 February 2018 10: 27
          I studied and even, lo and behold, watched. And it’s completely unclear to me why there was no Air Force Search and Rescue Team. NPC, it’s clear. And VPSK is a minimum of 2 branches — transport and shock for cover, plus a group of fighters.
        4. The comment was deleted.
          1. +2
            6 February 2018 21: 13
            1959ain, you did not fully quote an article from Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine, which stated the following: “The Su-25 was originally designed as if there were no MANPADS in nature. Slow (although the customer, represented by the Air Force, initially wanted to see the maximum speed of 1200 km / h ... with single-circuit turbojet engines with a high infrared signature (several times higher than that of a turbojet engine with a high bypass ratio of the American A-10 attack aircraft) .As a result, with the appearance of the Stinger MANPADS in Afghanistan, the Su-25 losses from MANPADS missiles are many times greater than single-engine, but high-speed Su-17s and MiG-23s of various modifications. ".
            - The conclusion is simple: SU-25 is not protected from MANPADS with a thermal seeker. This confirms the video shot down rook: the rocket explodes in the engine of the aircraft, when it approaches, the heat traps are not fired. So you can’t fight!
        5. +18
          5 February 2018 12: 01
          As with any Internet resource, there are enough “tactics and strategists, specialists and analysts” who have nothing to do with the Armed Forces. Purely humanly indignant comments and the pain expressed in them are understandable. But I don’t understand why so many people believe that after the operation in Syria is over, the deaths of fighters are beyond comprehension? Maybe recall how civilians and military personnel died after the Victory in the Great Patriotic War? Destruction of the enemy to the last man is unattainable.
          I don’t know what the attack aircraft did there and what tasks it had. And I do not consider myself entitled to indicate to the group commander what and how to do it. So the only thing that is really appropriate and necessary in the comments is condolences to the family and relatives of the deceased.
      3. +8
        5 February 2018 07: 20
        Quote: New
        The first question (I'm not an expert, but I will express my vision of the situation): why use the Su25, since it is vulnerable to attacks by MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and guns? Second: if they use su25, then why did the aircraft operate without cover? At a minimum, the Su25 had to act with another su25 and interact with a pair of helicopters, which, if the pilot was bailout, could save him.

        In vain you wrote it, laughing ,
        1. +3
          5 February 2018 07: 28
          Quote: Karakurt
          You should not have written it,
          No time to answer. I escaped to school!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +3
                5 February 2018 08: 08
                Quote: Victor_B
                Hey on the barge! Is Crimea ours? Did you go to the meeting of Navalny?

                It does not give an answer. (c) Gogol.
            2. +2
              5 February 2018 14: 05
              You don’t have to worry about proving something. This is the old pre-retirement guard and at the same time special forces of the VO. It’s better to make a strategic retreat. Even if you are close to the truth in some kind of statement, you’ll still be frustrated. The company really likes to be friends against someone.
      4. +9
        5 February 2018 08: 38
        About Shoigu in vain - quite an experienced leader
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +5
          5 February 2018 11: 46
          A leader is not a military leader.
        3. 0
          7 February 2018 07: 35
          Quote: ArikKhab
          About Shoigu in vain - quite an experienced leader

          Leader ...
      5. +3
        5 February 2018 08: 58
        Quote: New
        Look who our Minister of Defense Shoigu is, we look at the wiki: he didn’t serve in the army, he graduated from the Polytechnic Institute, candidate of economic sciences

        Not in defense of Shoigu - he is nobody to me, but for fun look - in many countries, the posts of Minister of Defense are occupied exclusively by civilians. And their deputies yes - the military. And the head of the NATO structure is often put by no means military.
      6. +5
        5 February 2018 10: 36
        But who told you that he acted without cover? There is a video where the moment the attack aircraft was struck by a rocket is shown, there was a pair of Su-25, the one who hit the rocket before it struck from the NURSs. Link to video
        Colonel Cassad has more videos on his blog ...
        1. +3
          5 February 2018 19: 40
          It seems that, coming out of the attack, he didn’t shoot the "traps", so he got a rocket. And then just no luck.
      7. +10
        5 February 2018 11: 00
        I think that the person who organized the combat mission without cover and the organization of the possible rescue of the downed pilot is to blame. The reason is gouging or feeling war will write everything off.
      8. 0
        5 February 2018 11: 02
        I subscribe to every word!
      9. +4
        5 February 2018 11: 43
        Quote: New
        I'm not an expert, but I will express my vision of the situation)

        It can be seen. Not a specialist, keep your "opinion" to yourself.
      10. +1
        6 February 2018 23: 47
        For idiots, the minister is primarily an administrator, not a commander ...
      11. +1
        8 February 2018 04: 56
        It’s not you who put it, nor you to discuss it. Maybe you, as a professional, will steer the MO, if not, then better keep quiet.
    3. +11
      5 February 2018 10: 18
      Quote: Victor_B
      Typical liberoid exhaust!
      Bloody redhead is lying and sends to slaughter !!!

      This is better than the cotton-patriotic "WE WIN ALL."
      You need to take a sober look at things and ask the president the right questions, not about his dogs and "how do you manage it."
      1. +1
        7 February 2018 14: 58
        And also read the text of the statements themselves, not the headings. It was announced the destruction of the IG as an organized structure. Nowhere has it been declared the complete destruction of all the various terrorist groups, the onset of universal peace, prosperity and dissolution from goodness in the air to complete transparency.
    4. +7
      5 February 2018 10: 25
      liberoid exhaust
      I would like to recall that the liberals in our government, in the ruling party, the president, .... So the liberal who asks them uncomfortable questions is unlikely.
  2. +13
    5 February 2018 05: 59
    Approximately the same as the after-silence of our military ministry.

    What is drooling here? Victory has a thousand fathers, and defeat is always an orphan
  3. +5
    5 February 2018 06: 01
    Strange ... the supreme declared victory .... "Submit a train to the supreme, the supreme is serving, the orchestra is a march" - (C), "Running", x / f.
    1. +10
      5 February 2018 12: 07
      Quote: Yarik
      Strange ... the supreme declared victory

      The Supreme declared the defeat of the main forces of ISIS; he did not say a word about a complete victory. Why juggle and irony where it is inappropriate? For reference, in Syria, in addition to ISIS, there are hundreds of different armed groups that are under the “wing” of various states.
  4. +32
    5 February 2018 06: 01
    Like the SU-24 shot down the F-16, not the F-15 - you have the first inaccuracy
    Su-25 did not fly alone, but in a pair is the second inaccuracy, ------ the second flew away because the fuel was running out.

    Recently, I noticed that Roman and some other authors of articles began to criticize the Defense Ministry and V.V. Putin very strongly.


    Do not do this, DEATH HERO is not the reason, very ugly.
    1. kig
      +13
      5 February 2018 06: 15
      However, you must admit that he is absolutely right about the SU-24 and F-16. Before this event, the Turks have repeatedly hinted that they do not like our planes and UAVs near their borders. Nevertheless, the bomber acted without fighter cover. Perhaps carry.
    2. +10
      5 February 2018 06: 53
      The questions are true, but they often criticize us because of powerlessness — we are already tired of the fact that “the dog barks, the caravan goes on” (and this is more about that mess that exists in the country than about sanctions) .. You are not tired of these bravado everywhere? We have already reduced the grouping in Syria, and even withdrawn, only the number of cars and sorties does not decrease at the same time ... But we won how they talk ... And if not, why talk? ISIS is destroyed, a village is taken away from ISIS, two are lost .... It’s somehow strange ... But the death of a hero ... Maybe you just have to think with your head that it is not there? Where is the evacuation team, where is the cover? But what about the phrase "nothing threatens us, it will not reach MANPADS at such a height" and "oh"? But what about the base in complete safety and "we will still take revenge"? And all the rest, by and large, for me personally, there was nothing really terrible, fortunately or not, I didn’t know the deceased, but I’m just sorry ... I’m sorry for the man, because the Syrian on May 9 was already said ...
      1. +6
        5 February 2018 12: 01
        because the Syrian May 9th has already come said ...

        When the Soviet 9th of May arrived at forty-fifth, another ten years the gangs were caught in the forests and suffered losses.
    3. +33
      5 February 2018 07: 10
      This is why it is not necessary to criticize the GDP ??? He was like an orderly at Sobchak, he dragged suitcases to him, so he remained in his soul. Things speak for themselves. Some are fattening, but the bulk of people are no better, if not worse. This is now he is engaged in PR, elections are coming soon. And there will be elections and NOTHING! will not change for the better if it remains. It’s better to leave him now, for good. As for the armed forces, we have much more window dressing and boltology. New weapons, defense orders ... And where is all this, which has no analogues in the world? Against the background of the T-72, neither Armata nor the T-90 are visible, which are exclusively for export. In the Navy, in general, everything tends to zero. The Ukropithek are proud of their armored boats and airbags from the Americans, we have the Raptors and the Grachats, everything else goes with such incredible efforts ... But the arms trade is on the move. And you’ll think about it when a combat aircraft is shot down not by the “Stinger”, but by the “Needle”. The most interesting thing is that the president is aware of all these operations. Therefore, another question arises, is he really the president of Russia and not another hostile country?
      1. +1
        5 February 2018 08: 45
        https://www.awaragroup.com/ru/blog/russian-econom
        y-2014-2016-the-years-of-sanctions-warfare /
        Is the “Needle” only in the Russian Federation in service? And then, but in print data appeared that the "Needle" from the "burnt" Ukrainian warehouses
      2. +13
        5 February 2018 09: 00
        Quote: Evgeniy667b
        This is why it is not necessary to criticize the GDP ???

        Get ready, it will fly at you now. On the "holy" hand raised.
      3. +8
        5 February 2018 12: 15
        Quote: Evgeniy667b
        This is why it is not necessary to criticize the GDP?

        Criticism should be appropriate, and not about the "birth of kittens," as many do, falling all in one basket. Everything that you listed is not done right away, by magic, no matter how you want it to. There are many problems, no one argues, but "quickly only cats will be born."
        1. +13
          5 February 2018 12: 49
          Quote: Orionvit
          There are many problems, no one argues, but "quickly only cats will be born."

          I agree. 18 years is not enough for the president. Give the next frontier, another 18 years !!! Here the main thing is not to rush .. a little by little, potihooonichku ... like something, slowly ... the main thing is not to rush))))
          1. +3
            5 February 2018 13: 56
            Quote: Petr1968
            Give the next frontier, another 18 years

            What kind of childish arguments? The memory is short, forgot the 90s? Are you probably starving? I understand that just freak out with fat. For comparison, welcome to Ukraine, I will conduct a tour, maybe there will be something to compare with, if at all you are able to compare the facts. You have to watch, you are in the role of a blonde.
      4. +8
        5 February 2018 12: 54
        Quote: Evgeniy667b
        Therefore, another question arises, is he really the president of Russia and not another hostile country?

        Therefore, another question arises, are you really a citizen of Russia, and not of another hostile country?
      5. +2
        5 February 2018 13: 09
        I agree 100%. Thank you for a sober look.
    4. +18
      5 February 2018 09: 41
      since when did our GDP and municipalities become untouchable? the halo over their heads shone?
    5. +14
      5 February 2018 10: 21
      Quote: Karakurt
      Recently, I noticed that Roman and some other authors of articles began to criticize the Defense Ministry and V.V. Putin very strongly. Do not do this.

      I agree!! Putin must be recorded as a saint (this is obvious, a man saved 140 million from Western enemies), his criticism should be equated with criticism of the Flag and the Anthem !!! Mock the saint !!!!
      1. 0
        5 February 2018 13: 08
        Hope this is sarcasm.
        1. +3
          5 February 2018 13: 34
          Quote: Antivirus2k
          Hope this is sarcasm.

          These are the desires of people.
  5. +5
    5 February 2018 06: 22
    do not forget that there is a war going on.
    In war, losses are inevitable.

    Another thing: who delivers MANPADS to terrorists? And where are the praised EW?
    1. +6
      5 February 2018 12: 26
      Quote: Stepych
      do not forget that there is a war going on.
      In war, losses are inevitable.

      It seems to some on the forum, this fact is unknown. But they found a reason to pour another batch of dirt on the Moscow Region and the president, and amicably cast out in “eloquence”. Particularly striking in its “depth” is the analytics of the mass of couch “experts”, what needed to be done and how. Comrades of the "analytega", they’ll figure it out without you, don’t do "dancing on the bones" and do not become like liberal dummies, who are completely not specialists, trying to talk about what they have no idea.
      1. +5
        5 February 2018 12: 51
        Quote: Orionvit
        It seems to some on the forum, this fact is unknown.

        Many western soldiers died there? And the whole world will benefit from the victory of terrorists. But in Russia there is no place for the value of human life. In Russia, human life is subordinate to the state, this is more important !!!
      2. +12
        5 February 2018 13: 07
        Well, yes, yes, Putin and his friends oligarchs know better how to love their homeland. They already "loved" her so much that the number of beggars, according to official figures, is 20 million. Do not ask questions, do not.
  6. +9
    5 February 2018 06: 30
    To write off the launch of a rocket on the moron of an action movie that does not distinguish between planes will also fail. MANPADS do not give morons. Not an automaton.

    This is exactly what was shot not by an unintelligent person, but by a well-trained specialist, fighters in spanking are not trusted, you need experience and training, you won’t get away with just one manual.
    We finished the operation in Syria or continue?
    Will we start to notice an increase in danger to Russian soldiers and military facilities in Syria?
    Why do we create for our warriors "situations of heroism"?

    Actually, I thought that the army is not explosives, it is fighting, and not giving out gifts, we are all shouting about patriotism and the homeland, but do you offer our soldiers to sit in the bushes? There is such a profession to defend the homeland, and many of the servicemen consciously choose this duty, especially since they pay for it not badly. Our people are fighting there, if your memory is short, remember the Caucasus, there too, not everything ended right away, and today there are noises of perfumes in places.
    It seems to be literate men, and escalating the situation,
    If you have any suggestions, then I suggest you voicing them, although there are no options here, the army of the USA, Germany, France will not sign instead of us, mercenaries if, then where, and who will go? will you go?)))) In general, I would not want to feed someone else's army, and the owner himself should protect his house, if he is not a coward, but if he is a coward, then he and his family are obviously doomed. Alas.
    1. +6
      5 February 2018 12: 33
      Quote: Sirocco
      It seems to be literate men

      Here I do not agree with you. I read the comments and very clearly realize whether people are massively stupid, or the upcoming elections among the people are draining their brains. All the evil, twitching and most importantly, amicably trying to talk about a topic in which they absolutely understand nothing. But the charges have already been discharged, to all who hit it.
  7. +10
    5 February 2018 06: 32
    I do not argue with the main thing. I feel sorry for the guys. For me they are all boys. Even under fifty dollars of age. I don’t even want to argue with the rest. I just want to say that there is such a profession to defend the homeland. And they should be able to do this ... How to explain in a nutshell ??? A breadman sows and grows bread ... Miners chop coal ... Fishermen get fish ... Have you read or heard about the Vostok seiner ??? Or maybe they missed it on the Internet ??? These twenty lives are no less close to me ... The boys are dying ... It's a pity ... I myself had a chance a couple of times as a young man ... But to poke a finger when it's possible now is not an argument ....
  8. +7
    5 February 2018 06: 35
    We have no bravura reports today.

    the elections are on the nose ... the guarantor needs a change. Therefore, the MO is silent
  9. +15
    5 February 2018 06: 40
    About the same thing today. The question is, why did the Su-25, attack aircraft, cut in the area, playing the role of either a reconnaissance or a single drummer?
    Here are shots of the death of a pilot, HEROIC DESTRUCTION. Listen to all the sounds ... and you will hear the sound of turbines. So that this aircraft was NOT SINGLE.
    1. +14
      5 February 2018 06: 45
      Quote: svp67
      About the same thing today. The question is, why did the Su-25, attack aircraft, cut in the area, playing the role of either a reconnaissance or a single drummer?
      Here are shots of the death of a pilot, HEROIC DESTRUCTION. Listen to all the sounds ... and you will hear the sound of turbines. So that this aircraft was NOT SINGLE.

      Yes, here no one delved into the analysis, the feeling that this is a stupid collision with the MO
      1. +15
        5 February 2018 06: 48
        Quote: Karakurt
        Yes, here no one delved into the analysis, the feeling that this is a stupid collision with the MO

        Like, alas, it often happens with these authors. Emotions - the sea, but with evidence - almost zero. The so-called "Ukrainian version", in which the main thing is to scream the loudest.
        1. +9
          5 February 2018 06: 52
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: Karakurt
          Yes, here no one delved into the analysis, the feeling that this is a stupid collision with the MO

          Like, alas, it often happens with these authors. Emotions - the sea, but with evidence - almost zero. The so-called "Ukrainian version", in which the main thing is to scream the loudest.

          You read the comments, they got the start of a collision with the Moscow Region, by the end of the day it will reach Shoygu and Putin. Feeling that this is a provocation am
          1. +7
            5 February 2018 07: 02
            Quote: Karakurt
            . The feeling that this is a provocation

            Provocation? Of course not. Since our Ministry of Defense and its Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, headed by Major General Konashenkov Igor Evgenievich, are clearly not up to the mark here and this information battle has LOSED.
            1. +3
              5 February 2018 07: 17
              Quote: svp67
              Quote: Karakurt
              . The feeling that this is a provocation

              Provocation? Of course not. Since our Ministry of Defense and its Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, headed by Major General Konashenkov Igor Evgenievich, are clearly not up to the mark here and this information battle has LOSED.

              I’m talking about an article, as everyone predicted, they quarrel, some attack the Defense Ministry, others defend the Defense Ministry, and we won’t win the information war against us 90% of all the media in the world and ours have lost their Soviet acumen request
              1. +7
                5 February 2018 07: 19
                Quote: Karakurt
                and we won’t win the information war against us 90% of all the media in the world and ours have lost their Soviet acumen

                I do not agree. Simonyan with her RT perfectly proved how to win by small forces.
                1. +2
                  5 February 2018 07: 36
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Karakurt
                  and we won’t win the information war against us 90% of all the media in the world and ours have lost their Soviet acumen

                  I do not agree. Simonyan with her RT perfectly proved how to win by small forces.

                  I agree with you, Simonyan and RT beat the adversary well in their territory. I will say that there is one warrior in the field, but the other one is not a warrior in the field - and that’s all right smile
              2. +4
                5 February 2018 08: 55
                Quote: Karakurt
                I’m talking about an article, as everyone predicted, they quarrel, some attack the Defense Ministry, others defend the Defense Ministry, and we won’t win the information war against us 90% of all the media in the world and ours have lost their Soviet acumen

                And she was, this "Soviet acumen"? what In those days, our television was so ossified, so captivated by certain political and ideological cliches that it was visible to absolutely everyone. And now our media works much better! Now the Western media are already bronzing in their inertness, adopting the worst methods of Soviet propaganda. For example - they will repeat the same thing several times, taking the fact itself from their minds - and already refer to it as something known to everyone. hi
            2. +1
              5 February 2018 12: 41
              Quote: svp67
              led by Major General Konashenkov Igor Evgenyevich, is clearly not up to the mark here and this information battle has LOSED.

              The fact is that the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense operates with verified facts, not speculations and fantasies, as is done at the VO forum. You just read what frank nonsense some forum users write, they all fall into one heap, and on the basis of their "reasoning", you have already blamed everyone who reached out.
              1. +5
                5 February 2018 16: 55
                Quote: Orionvit
                The fact is that the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense operates with verified facts, not speculation and fantasies, as is done at the VO forum.

                Now think about what you said. It turns out that our Ministry of Defense did not know that the plane was shot down, and then did not know who was flying this plane? So what? Indeed, almost a day passed between the moment of the destruction of our aircraft and the upload of video materials to net, and all this time our MO was SILENT. What did they hope for there? What plane will return?
                1. +1
                  7 February 2018 23: 47
                  Quote: svp67
                  Indeed, almost a day passed between the moment of the destruction of our aircraft and the upload of video materials to net, and all this time our MO was SILENT.

                  Here I fully support Orionvit:
                  Quote: Orionvit
                  amicably trying to argue on a topic in which they understand absolutely nothing.

                  It seems that here 90% of people who have no relation to the army at all. Therefore, I don’t even dare to explain something about HOW the Defense Ministry should work (when and to whom to say or report something), and even more so the Air Force tactics and interaction in real combat operations. I can only advise connoisseurs to watch less Hollywood action movies.
          2. 0
            5 February 2018 12: 37
            Quote: Karakurt
            by the end of the day will reach down with Shoigu and Putin

            Already. They do not call directly, but the hints are very convincing.
      2. 0
        5 February 2018 12: 36
        Quote: Karakurt
        the feeling that this is a stupid collision with MO

        It looks like a regular order.
    2. 0
      5 February 2018 08: 17
      Quote: svp67
      About the same thing today. The question is, why did the Su-25, attack aircraft, cut in the area, playing the role of either a reconnaissance or a single drummer?
      Here are shots of the death of a pilot, HEROIC DESTRUCTION. Listen to all the sounds ... and you will hear the sound of turbines. So that this aircraft was NOT SINGLE.


      The second plane was, why not cover it up? Didn't see the landing spot?
      1. 0
        5 February 2018 08: 20
        Quote: Evil543
        The second plane was, why not cover it up? Didn't see the landing spot?

        I have no answer, and so I think the RF Ministry of Defense will definitely not give it. But among the pilots it will soon be known, their cramped world - its connections
        1. 0
          5 February 2018 18: 00
          Quote: Evil543
          The second plane was, why not cover it up? Didn't see the landing spot?
          - the reason is simple. The second - the fuel was running out.
      2. +4
        5 February 2018 10: 57
        Quote: Evil543
        The second plane was, why not cover it up? Didn't see the landing spot?
        How? Decreased to a shaver and shot dozens of fighters surrounding the pilot from the VPU? Hypothetically acceptable. and then what? The MSS still wouldn’t have time for the fall of the Rook to evacuate the downed pilot.
        Mr. Filippov had no chance and he was well aware of this.
        1. 0
          5 February 2018 17: 09
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Quote: Evil543
          The second plane was, why not cover it up? Didn't see the landing spot?
          How? Decreased to a shaver and shot dozens of fighters surrounding the pilot from the VPU? Hypothetically acceptable. and then what? The MSS still wouldn’t have time for the fall of the Rook to evacuate the downed pilot.
          Mr. Filippov had no chance and he was well aware of this.

          I do not agree there is always a chance
      3. +3
        5 February 2018 13: 05
        Just because you hear some kind of whistle does not mean that there was a second plane. For some reason, when the plane was shot down, the second is not visible. There was nothing, do not justify the commanders, and so no one will punish them.
        1. +1
          5 February 2018 16: 58
          Quote: Antivirus2k
          For some reason, when the plane was shot down, the second is not visible.

          Are you serious?
          Quote: Antivirus2k
          Just because you hear some kind of whistle does not mean that there was a second plane.

          Are you trying to contradict the fact?
          Quote: Antivirus2k
          There was nothing, do not justify the commanders, and so no one will punish them.

          Why so long, they would say easier: "Everything is gone !!!"
    3. +3
      5 February 2018 10: 28
      Judging by the sound, two RGD-5s worked. The iron will of the guy.
      1. +1
        5 February 2018 10: 33
        Quote: Blue Fox
        Judging by the sound, two RGD-5s worked. The iron will of the guy.

        Most likely, since he applied F-1, there would have been more injured “barmaley” ...
  10. +19
    5 February 2018 06: 46
    I do not agree with the author! I do not agree at all! In Syria, we (Russia) are fighting! Yes, the contingent was reduced, but the bases remained! While they are standing there, they will fight, there will be losses, unfortunately. But people have chosen this profession! War is a soldier’s business! By its actions in the SAR, Russia has proved that we are ready to answer any challenges at any point where we have interests!
    PS And what escort would help repel an attack on a MANPADS missile?
  11. +23
    5 February 2018 07: 02
    We finished the operation in Syria or continue

    Absolutely fair question.
    After all, at the highest level, they announced the withdrawal of troops
    But - it has become the norm to say one thing and do another
    Solid and ugly
  12. +5
    5 February 2018 07: 04
    This is a war, Skomorokhov. War. Read the syllables.
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 10: 23
      Quote: brom
      This is a war, Skomorokhov. War. Read the syllables.

      I will add, OUR war! We defend the lives of our mothers and children there !!! For then the terrorists will come and destroy everything. So the guys go there right and give their lives. For a holy cause do not mind !!!
      1. SOF
        +3
        5 February 2018 14: 01
        Quote: Petr1968
        For a holy cause do not mind !!!

        ... take the trouble to explain the meaning of your phrase above, based on super-wise of your statement below ....
        Quote: Petr1968
        It's better than cotton patriotic "WE WON ALL."

        ... something does not suit you in a winter uniform?
        ... or do not want to be "padded jacket" ??? And where did the firewood come from? For whom are you trying ... for these ... with urkaina ??? As far as I know, it seems to them that we are all here "quilted jackets"?
        ... so you're not a padded jacket? probably a European? Whom HIGHLY interested in our future?
  13. +2
    5 February 2018 07: 09
    I don’t even want to talk about fairly large losses of aircraft. In real combat, 5 of our helicopters (2 transport and 3 drums), two planes, Su-24 (bomber), Su-25 (attack aircraft) are destroyed.
    But there were also other losses. Mi-24 crashed "for technical reasons" near the Hama airfield. MiG-29 and Su-33, which fell when landing on an aircraft carrier. Su-24, which exploded during take-off at Khmeinim last fall.

    You forgot to add the Tu-154 in the "other losses". and also it is possible in general all the breakdowns of military equipment related to the operation in Syria.
    some nonsense.
    the only normal question: why was the rook one?
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 09: 45
      he was not alone ...
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. +7
    5 February 2018 07: 54
    “I don’t even want to talk about fairly large losses of aircraft. In real hostilities, 5 of our helicopters (2 transport and 3 attack) were destroyed, two aircraft, Su-24 (bomber), Su-25 (attack aircraft).” - No, really? 5 lost planes (of which only two cars were shot down) in two and a half years are big losses? Well, about 6 helicopters lost, more than half of the losses - for technical reasons. If you continue to disassemble the article, then it is not very. The war in Syria has not ended and it is too early to draw any conclusions.
    1. +2
      5 February 2018 10: 29
      Quote: Fisher Martin
      The war in Syria has not ended and it is too early to draw any conclusions.

      Why are we bringing troops into the midst of hostilities ?? Another HPP ???? Shame, on the contrary, it is necessary to increase, we must send conscripts, we will end the terrorists in a year, the Syrians do not know how to fight, we need to fight for them there !!
    2. +3
      5 February 2018 11: 34
      True, not an article, but a nagging Look at the statistics of accidents and losses of aircraft equipment in Russia (not only). Even non-combat losses were always with everyone. Moreover, combat experience and training with a real enemy does not go without loss, by definition .. Maybe only the heads of provocateurs or pan-legged ..
      1. 0
        5 February 2018 13: 02
        And you compare with other countries, it may help to understand something.
      2. +1
        5 February 2018 15: 21
        Quote: Konstantin Yu.
        Moreover, combat experience and training with a real enemy does not go without losses, by definition ..

        We need to let everyone through Syria, let them gain experience, and conscripts too. In the end, we are preparing for war!
        1. 0
          6 February 2018 09: 15
          to begin, the term of urgent service must be returned back
  16. +13
    5 February 2018 07: 59
    Yes, in fact, there are much more questions. Only not about the victory over the bandits, but about the organization of sorties. What, in order to make a decision to fly in echelons above 5000 over areas occupied by bandits, the presence of MANPADS of various manufacturers for a long time and is well known, it was necessary to lose the pilot? They write in one piece - he could not know about the danger in this area. Rave! Combat zone. Danger - from any angle, at any time. Not Cuban, damn it! Our carelessness once again framed us.
    And the guy is well done. The real Russian officer. Russians do not give up. Peace be upon him, war, eternal memory and earth rest in peace ...
    1. 0
      7 February 2018 23: 54
      Quote: Twice Major
      Yes, in fact, there are much more questions. Only not about the victory over the bandits, but about the organization of sorties.

      That's what I asked about in another topic ... The main question is to who set the task for the pilot and what was its purpose. Otherwise, why did he fly over this area in the horizon at such a height?
  17. +7
    5 February 2018 08: 16
    It is amazing to read such things on the pages of the site called "Military Review". There is a nuance in the war - you can die there much easier than in the neighboring gateway. However, at the moment a lot of money is being paid for this, in spite of the chewing gum on the international debt of the salaga to recruits during the Afghan war.

    Both current and past soldiers fight honestly to the end, which cannot but inspire optimism in the Russian population regarding their soldiers and their (Russia) future.

    The contract basis is an honest and extremely frank form for such operations. The man went to work. She is more dangerous than yours and mine, but he consciously made his choice. And tearing the vest on the chest with the cries of "left widows and orphans" in this case is out of place.

    Undoubtedly, families and children deserve sympathy. However, no one is tearing vests for fishermen drowned in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and they also have “widow orphans” and a “contract” for sure cheaper than combat pilots.

    There is no need to turn the death of one man indisputably brave and honest into a nationwide tragedy and try to comb this event to the scale of a state drama. This is war - they kill in war.

    Wait a few months for the news to arrive. There will be some plane, ship or some other state of emergency, when it will be possible to justifiably shout: "How long ?!"
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 08: 40
      Quote: IrbenWolf
      There is no need to turn the death of one man indisputably brave and honest into a nationwide tragedy and try to comb this event to the scale of a state drama. This is war - they kill in war.

      I do not think that the relatives of the dead pilots will share the depth of your philosophy.
      Question of the amateur to pilots and those who make planes:
      1. And you can’t equip pilots with something more substantial than a pugach, even a stechkin?
      2. And it is impossible to strengthen the protection of the lower-hemisphere from MANPADS with a pair of Kalashnikov with automatic control?
      Strictly do not judge a layman, I share the feelings of his colleagues in connection with the death of another pilot. hi
      1. +3
        5 February 2018 09: 51
        is stechkin a scarecrow? this is new, oh how I do not want to render this fighter on the line of fire ...
        The Kalashnikov’s automatic-controlled Sparks will not help and will devour the combat load of the attack aircraft, not to mention design changes ...
        1. 0
          5 February 2018 14: 41
          Quote: faiver
          is stechkin a scarecrow?

          Against several people armed with machine guns - a pugach.
  18. +1
    5 February 2018 08: 22
    the incident should be openly investigated with the participation of the Russian public, lessons should be learned, the perpetrators should be punished, measures should be taken to ensure that this does not happen again, there should not be silence about the information of the Moscow Region, people should know why this happened
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 08: 47
      Just like a shout in the square! If you didn’t know, then war is an uninterrupted, until its end, “incident”.
    2. +4
      5 February 2018 09: 52
      openly investigated with public participation? do not write nonsense ...
      1. +1
        7 February 2018 16: 22
        Exactly. With the participation of the progressive Russian public ™ and become the property of the free press ™. And I even know what lessons should be learned and what guilty ones and how they should be punished. wink
  19. +7
    5 February 2018 08: 25
    As they say, the closer to the front, the cleaner the people!
    Recently, military commander Gennady Dubovoi said - "After each shelling on the TV screens and pages of social networks, crowds creep out by the budding of propagating" experts in the Donbass "and in no battle the former" military commanders ""
    I don’t understand people who, not being professional in this or that field, give advice, raise reproaches, publicly impose their opinions and “exceptional” conclusions. Society is not a crowd of ignoramuses!
    Now, I can’t remember literally and where I read that in the journalistic environment, there are several categories. A galaxy of “eagles,” those who risk their lives reporting from hot spots, those who carry the truth, about Russia, the people of the world, those who are willing to sacrifice their careers, but seek justice where it’s trampled by officials, bags ", lost their honor and conscience by judges and security officials.
    A galaxy of "hawks" - worn on the sidelines, hunting for "stars" or present at press conferences for one purpose - to seize a fleeting sensation, get into private life, disgrace, poke, turn everything upside down and so on.
    A galaxy of "vultures" - rushing at everything that remains of the first two categories and always smells bad.

    PS - I was struck by my imaginary "patriotism" last replica -
    The Defense Ministry pays so much that it has the right to send to death?
    .
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  21. +3
    5 February 2018 09: 09
    Judging by the comments, everything that goes beyond the cry of Ur is an enemy propaganda. How many US people and equipment have lost in BV in three years, and how much are we? The tasks of both us and they are exactly the same, customer support of dubious combat readiness, that’s all.
  22. +8
    5 February 2018 09: 19
    All these reports that won, dispersed, exterminated ... It is clear that Peremoga is needed. No, we have no bravura reports today.
    Here I agree with the authors. Konashenkov has long become the Russian analogue of Tymchuk. When the last in one raid "destroyed" thousands of militias, everyone here reasonably laughed at such stupidity as Konashenkov says similar figures, in response to "our MO has more information", "ours do not lie, unlike the Western ones" and so on. Really - all the "help" is continuous!
  23. +3
    5 February 2018 09: 22
    I have only one question. Why do not EW President type screeners strike attack aircraft (Combat helicopters and Su-25 attack aircraft)? This is the first thing to do.
  24. 0
    5 February 2018 09: 34
    They didn’t lose and until they won - in the process.
    Victory will be when ALL gangs of the USA or not the USA disappear from the territory of Syria.
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 10: 26
      Is your surname Manilov?
  25. Red
    +3
    5 February 2018 09: 46
    Only according to official data, that confirmed by the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, we have already lost 44 troops in Syria. Now 45.
    Was there any condolences from the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, from the Minister of Defense, and finally from the commander-in-chief of the VKS. Or they know real losses and for them one more, one less ...
  26. +5
    5 February 2018 09: 49
    The people, what is the argument? Was the plane solitary, wasn’t, the cover group with the MSS was ready, or wasn’t, these are all the details, but the important thing is that any manifestation of heroism is, first of all, a miscalculation of command, although of course war is war and you can’t predict everything! So the authors of the article are right in one way to create prerequisites for the manifestation of heroism.
  27. +8
    5 February 2018 10: 01
    And I have a question too. Why did the pilot have a Stechkin pistol, and not a Kalashnikov assault rifle with a shortened barrel and folding butt. After all, there is the experience of a war in the DRA when four horns for him, 4 grenades, a flask of water and a walkie-talkie were laid on all the aircraft in the NAZ with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. In fact, the pilot was without weapons. Stechkina in battle is PONTS. And I have one more question. I had occasion to see the SU-25 to which the STINGER flew into the engine, with the fuselage and the cockpit in the sieve with the wing spread, while the pilot did not receive more than one scratch, he calmly put the plane on the runway. In order to shoot down the SU-25 you need TWO STINGERS This aircraft has multiple systems duplication. Well, the rocket hit the engine and what ????? Therefore, there is a very serious question, What did the militants bring down the plane ???
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 10: 14
      Quote: Turkestan
      What shot down the militants ???

      It seems to be a needle.
    2. +3
      5 February 2018 10: 21
      Kalash would not have saved the gang of thugs trained in battle tactics.
    3. +3
      5 February 2018 12: 59
      I do not think that Kalash would save the major in this case. And as for the "two stingers." You, of course, are right, but once and for all it is not necessary. Sometimes one is enough. But the fact that the plane flew unaccompanied and without protection against MANPADS is another question, and the question is shameful for our commanders.
  28. +4
    5 February 2018 10: 12
    Quote: Victor_B
    Typical liberoid exhaust!
    Bloody redhead is lying and sends to slaughter !!!
    "This money was necessary for pioneers and pensioners" !!!
    But! And some questions are true. What did the lone stormtrooper do at such a low altitude? The day before the rocket, hits from the memory were noted, well, they flew very low, very much. And alone.

    At 6 a.m. a post was written, they should already have watched the video with the last minutes of the pilot and heard his last words on it, so that there would be no doubt, as in this article, and hear, atom number, the sound of an airplane in the air. But here in Russia, on the couch, of course, everything is more visible. According to the grave silence of the military prosecutor’s office, Putin, what they started talking about on the day when this happened, the same is not clear. And when they say it will be declared - you're lying. Weights and analytics are not in our honor.
  29. +4
    5 February 2018 10: 17
    I don’t even want to talk about quite large losses of aircraft. In real hostilities, 5 of our helicopters (2 transport and 3 attack), two aircraft, Su-24 (bomber), Su-25 (attack aircraft) were destroyed.
    But there were also other losses. Mi-24 crashed "for technical reasons" near the Hama airfield. MiG-29 and Su-33, which fell when landing on an aircraft carrier. Su-24, which exploded on take-off to Khmeimim last fall ..

    Losses are not big. For 2 and a half years, they lost more due to technical and organizational reasons than from military action. In Afghanistan, they lost more than 330 helicopters (33 per year), in Chechnya from 94 to 2004, they lost more than 90 helicopters (9 per year). In Syria, 5 (2,5 per year). Progress is evident.
    By and large, it’s not a matter of technology. Iron can still be done. People are the main value.
    1. +1
      5 February 2018 12: 57
      If you are a military man, then do not disgrace yourself with this kind of statistics. Losses need to be assessed not "by years", but by the scale of the operation. Many American planes, such as those fighting ISIS (and actually helping them), were shot down from MANPADS? And Israeli? And Turkish?
      1. +2
        5 February 2018 13: 27
        Do not disgrace yourself with this kind of statistics.

        I replied to the authors of the article, who proposed such an accounting option. Therefore, all your reasoning is “out of the box”, because they do not argue about the definitions, they agree on them.

        If you do not agree with the authors of the article or vice versa, give your statistics.
        Many American planes, such as those fighting ISIS (and actually helping them), were shot down from MANPADS? And Israeli? And Turkish?
  30. +9
    5 February 2018 10: 20
    A strange article - I am surprised by such an interpretation (some questions that, as it were, do not require an answer, but they themselves cry out for bad authority) on this resource. Our officers in Syria are fighting the evil that openly declared and continues to declare that Russia is its enemy, that it will fight against Russia (they do not know how to carry out terrorist attacks). For once, we wet the enemy not when he invades our lands, but ahead of time and, accordingly, with much more modest expenses, both material and human resources.
    1. +4
      5 February 2018 12: 54
      You can still fill up with corpses and also not ask questions. Questions posed in the article arise from any sane person. And personally, I am grateful to the author for this article. But, I think, we will not wait for answers and punishments for this shameful (because they shot down MANPADS) loss.
  31. +5
    5 February 2018 10: 24
    Quote: New
    Look who our Minister of Defense Shoigu is, we look at the wiki: he did not serve in the army, he graduated from the Polytechnic Institute, Ph.D. in Economics, and is currently the Army General, Hero of the Russian Federation. What else to expect if a baker sews boots. In Putin’s government, everything is decided not by professionalism, but by blat, so the government is failing in all directions. What can the military amateur Shoigu demand from the military, how can he organize work and training? No way.
    The situation, of course, is deeper:
    1. This is a problem of military education and military science. In the year 41, all failures were attributed to a lack of experience. Whereas the cause of the defeats were miscalculations at the level of military science and education. The Germans learned to fight in classrooms, so they, without having the notorious experience, easily defeated Poland and France.
    2. The problem of education of cadets of psychology "father to soldiers." When the commander respects his subordinates, appreciates each, he will think over the operation seven times and only then give the order to carry it out. We, as a rule, do not care at all.
    The first question (I'm not an expert, but I will express my vision of the situation): why use the Su25, since it is vulnerable to attacks by MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and guns? Second: if they use su25, then why did the aircraft operate without cover? At a minimum, the Su25 had to act with another su25 and interact with a pair of helicopters, which, if the pilot was bailout, could save him.

    So what? I.V. Dzhugashvili generally finished seminary. And who entrusted him with governing the country? Do not worry, dear. After Shoigu joined the Defense Ministry, the situation in the army became much better. Or do you want to see Serdyukov as a minister?
    1. 0
      7 February 2018 16: 40
      And you can also recall about such a minister of defense who served in the army and even with Afghan experience as Grachev. And he studied well at a military university. And as a result, the New Year's storm of Grozny. We must offer to compare the first war in Chechnya and what is happening now in Syria.
  32. +4
    5 February 2018 10: 24
    The author you are not a visionary liberalist !!! Where have you seen a war without victims ??? And Major Roman Filippov died protecting your ass with your family from terror in your home! ok oh and fucking liberalist! Glory to the hero !!!
    1. +5
      5 February 2018 10: 43
      It seems to me that the author is against senseless losses. At the only moo of the MORF, the attack aircraft conducted a de-escalation zone flyby. What UAV could handle. Or the same attack aircraft, but at a higher altitude.
  33. +3
    5 February 2018 10: 25
    About the questions of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation I want to remind you that one ... a journalist can ask so many questions that ten wise men will not be able to answer them.
  34. +3
    5 February 2018 10: 32
    Quote: Turkestan
    And I have a question too. Why did the pilot have a Stechkin pistol, and not a Kalashnikov assault rifle with a shortened barrel and folding butt. After all, there is the experience of a war in the DRA when four horns for him, 4 grenades, a flask of water and a walkie-talkie were laid on all the aircraft in the NAZ with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. In fact, the pilot was without weapons. Stechkina in battle is PONTS

    And if he had a machine gun and 4 grenades, would he have fought off a crowd of militants? He sat in a gadyushnik, he was very unlucky that I could not reach out.
  35. +2
    5 February 2018 10: 33
    For those to whom it does not reach, there is a war, I shoot from real weapons with real ammunition !! Naturally kill there !!! When we all entered the service, we knew that the profession of a soldier is a profession with a risk to life. Next on the list !! Attack from a single MANPADS missile ???? As an air defense officer, I can only say one thing. MANPADS missile on average lives and flies 13-14 seconds. Next, the engine resource ends and it self-destructs. Not at all begging for the pilot’s courage and dedication, but .... qualifications .... either just relaxed and felt like a king ...
  36. +3
    5 February 2018 10: 33
    The author asks a stupid question, but have we finished the war !? And in 1945, we ended the war, if after this date we drove through the forests of fascist shortcomings for about another ten years !? And why do they still continue to live quietly in Ukraine and around the world, is this not the answer! It was stated that the main forces of Isil were defeated, and how much more time scattered gangs and American mercenaries will run through the desert time will tell! But provocations will be accurate and must be resolved thoroughly and decisively.
  37. +1
    5 February 2018 10: 35
    Quote: Turkestan
    I had occasion to see the SU-25 to which the STINGER flew into the engine, with the fuselage and the cockpit in the sieve with the wing spread, while the pilot did not receive more than one scratch, he calmly landed the plane on the runway. In order to shoot down the SU-25 you need TWO STINGERS This aircraft has multiple systems duplication. Well, the rocket hit the engine and what ????? Therefore, there is a very serious question, What did the militants bring down the plane ???

    According to your concepts, it is not possible to shoot down the SU-25; in fact, ask the question how a non-shooting aircraft was shot down.
  38. +2
    5 February 2018 10: 40
    At VO, as well as other resources, a mass of custom canine trolls appeared. Ksyushad herself, however, is also a troll puppet, originating from the libero-rotten "professorial elite", always, since the time of A.P. Chekhov joyfully served the enemies and enemies of Great Russia. But who then moderates VO? Why are they clearly missing the “dog tears”? They, moderators, should know that there are no wars without losses? That our Ministry of Defense does not shed tears, but investigates and takes revenge, and that this is military and secret work in the war? Even after the death of General Asapov (!!!), the foreign organizers were not officially publicly named. A hybrid war is being waged against Russia and its allies, it is being waged around the world, including the territory of the Russian Federation, including even Moscow - an example of which was the clearly provocative, prepared demo assassination of the traitor Nemtsov, their own agent! The subsequent "promotion" of this murder all over the ball accurately indicates customers who are even ready to rename the streets in their capitals for provocation ... Moderators VO! Who are you with these political customers of “elective topics”, or with us, participants in military-analytical discussions on the resource?
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 12: 52
      The fact that alternative opinions appear on the resource, and not only give praise to Putin and his oligarch friends, is only a plus for the resource. Get used to it, there are different opinions, not just yours and wrongs.
  39. 0
    5 February 2018 10: 43
    The author, directly got excited. You MO should not immediately report. They themselves now understand what and how, so as not to speak for the sake of conversation, but to speak for the answers to questions. Sit and wait, you are a distant person like me from the actions that take place there and what are the plans of the Russian Federation in Syria.
    1. +6
      5 February 2018 12: 47
      Yes, MO are serious guys. As the screenshots are rolled out from a computer game or an American movie that the Supreme Commander shows Oliver Stone, one can immediately see the seriousness of this organization.
  40. 0
    5 February 2018 10: 45
    I wanted to say something ....
  41. +1
    5 February 2018 10: 52
    Some teenage couch theorist .. How so? It was necessary to ? if? should be? I think until there is a pro report on the circumstances and conclusions, And there is nothing to pop out ".. gossip in the form of versions of" concerns ... Eternal memory to the heroes and all the defenders of Russia!
  42. +2
    5 February 2018 10: 54
    I do not understand the whining on the topic of extinct death. Yes, it’s incredibly sorry for our pilot, but there’s a saying that the sapper makes mistakes twice — the first time he marries ... and so comrades in the war do not put two on the pope and do not spank - in the kill we kill those whom we identified as realities for us, and probably because that give them free rein they will cut Bosko’s organs and eat away organs ... but that’s not the point .... but the point is that a military man died in a war, a strike aviation pilot died on a combat mission, and he chose his own profession. given his rank as a major and, if he was different inside, he could work as a regular civil aviation pilot for one of the largest airlines in China, which are in line for our flyers. The officer died, he died with honor, and they didn’t cover the head with pillows under our heads for the warriors to complain about what he sees there, they didn’t create the conditions. Glory to the honor and memory of the warrior of the Russian Army, for generations grow on such examples, and at all times there were Evpatii Kolovrata, and Alexandra Peresvet, and sailor Peter Koshka, Cossack Kozma Kryuchkov, Red Army soldier Yakov Pavlov, who now joined the pilot of the Russian VKS Roman Phillipov. Remember Love Sorrow and thank God for the fact that such guys lived!
    1. +1
      5 February 2018 12: 50
      Well, yes, let's not whine, but just treat our military like meat. Well, or, sore mouth, "women still give birth."
      1. +2
        5 February 2018 14: 56
        to their military, as to meat.

        What a wonderful stereotype ...

        Ask French war veterans in Indochina how they fought, or American veterans of the Vietnam War, read about the losses of the French-Germans during the First World War, about the Japanese in the assault of Port Arthur in 1905, and then spread the myths.

        In this "fascinating category of meat procurements" Russia is quite at the level of "partners". And in relation to the soldiers (veterans), too.
  43. +2
    5 February 2018 10: 55
    Quote: Olgovich
    Of course, against them. But the attack aircraft can work from heights inaccessible MANPADS.

    Everything flows, everything changes. Now, at times, the height reach of the MANPADS is such that altitude will not save either.

    Quote: New
    Look who our Minister of Defense Shoigu is, we look at the wiki: he did not serve in the army, he graduated from the Polytechnic Institute, Ph.D. in Economics, and is currently the Army General, Hero of the Russian Federation.

    So what? In many countries of the world, a civilian is often the Minister of Defense. For the post of Minister of Defense is more of a political representation rather than a military one. The last two defense ministers were purely civilians, and how diverse their actions are. We have had in history and defense ministers with epaulets, with big stars. So what? At the same time, they intervened for a dozen years in Afghanistan; there were two Chechnya. The position of the minister - I repeat - is more political than military. For war, there is the General Staff, after all. so what about Shoigu you are NOT RIGHT

    Quote: New
    The first question (I'm not an expert, but I will express my vision of the situation): why use the Su25, since it is vulnerable to attacks by MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and guns? Second: if they use su25, then why did the aircraft operate without cover? At a minimum, the Su25 had to act with another su25 and interact with a pair of helicopters, which, if the pilot was bailout, could save him.

    Then the counter question: what to use? Each machine may be vulnerable. One for MANPADS, another for a more serious complex, but also mobile. What to use? Strategists who would hit targets over hundreds of kilometers? Or orbital bombers? An attack aircraft is a battlefield aircraft that must operate in conditions when the enemy has air defense equipment. It is not always possible to protect even an armored aircraft. It all depends on where the rocket hits. Over the years of using this machine, there have been cases when the aircraft returned on the same engine with a disengaged second engine. And there were cases when in the air it exploded from a rocket.

    Next, about the second plane. Even this short story, which is now spinning on the net, the engines of another car are clearly audible in the sounds. The reason why I didn’t strike was another. And we do not understand this. Bailouts of the pilot and the presence of helicopters in that area is not a 100% guarantee of saving the pilot. In the same way, helicopters could also be shot down. Remember (or read) how they saved the second crew member of the downed SU-24. How many forces and means were involved, incl. and special forces
    1. +2
      5 February 2018 14: 47
      Quote: Old26
      Bailouts of the pilot and the presence of helicopters in that area is not a 100% guarantee of saving the pilot.

      So, do not save, fearing new victims? belay
  44. +1
    5 February 2018 11: 00
    Reading this nonsense shit from kamentov. No one expressed sympathy for the family to close colleagues. The warriors in the battle are not a resource, but everything is gone and even the minister didn’t end up serving Shoigu or even left. Compare the number of sorties and losses with Afghanistan you should be proud of the army and not to look in the anus of the hemorrhoids. The guy is a hero, but something isn’t sorted out like in a war, and they subscribed to it and are not looking for sins. I thought here the resource is not liberoid, but here the addicts are like cockroaches
    1. The comment was deleted.
  45. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      5 February 2018 12: 45
      Well, everything, since he mixed up the F-16 and F-15, then the letter is of course from "hayfields". Is there water in the tap?
  46. +2
    5 February 2018 11: 25
    Yes, indeed in war as in war, but we should save the flyers. Let drones circle and scout, and strike with long-range artillery and MLRS, all the more so not so far. And ideally, shock drones should act, for some reason they are antediluvian in militants, but where are ours?
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 11: 41
      To fly normally, flyers need to fly. You won’t work much at the training ground. Real combat situation is a completely different matter. Natural selection is there. Of course, people are sorry but no more. It was necessary to study the materiel better.
  47. +2
    5 February 2018 11: 35
    In Afghanistan, the Soviet Army acted independently.
    But This army belonged to the state! And to which state does the army belong under the command of the commander-in-chief?
  48. +3
    5 February 2018 11: 41
    Alexander and Roman! Why are you boiling! It has long been clear that, as elsewhere in Russia, the army has an economic attitude to success. More success for less cost! We have liberal capitalism on the street! Someone gets stars for saving resources! While in many cases the principle of economic efficiency / expediency will prevail, we will receive these situations. This also applies to rocket science, housing and communal services, education, culture, etc.
    And from myself I’ll add: eternal memory to the heroes! And words of sympathy for the pilot’s family.
  49. +9
    5 February 2018 11: 42
    I have one habit. If the message is long and on a hot topic, then save it in a version of Word.
    Here is what I have about the loss of the Su-24:

    Back in the days of Afghanistan, it was found that rescue of a crew in distress over hostile territory is possible in the next 30 minutes, then the chances of getting them alive are sharply reduced.
    The most effective way is to pick up on the go.
    How it was done:
    - the strike group was instructed to keep 20% of the ammunition of the main armament and not less than 80% of the rifle and cannon, so that in the event of an emergency, immediately, while the comrades were hanging out on the slings, to clean the place of their landing.
    - helicopters of the search and rescue group were on duty not on the ground, but in the air, with an 5-minute approach to the place of work of the strike group
    - search and rescue group helicopters took off and went into the area before the strike group took off
    - the route to the target and back to the attack group was laid so that the search and rescue group helicopters could reach the disaster area on the route in 10 minute interval
    - during take-off, search and rescue group helicopters occupied the readiness No. 2 of the backup search and rescue group helicopters and, in the event of an emergency, immediately took to the air
    - the optimal composition of the search and rescue group, two (pair) Mi-8 and four (link) Mi-24 cover
    - in case of special complexity of the area of ​​work, the duty link of the Su-25 attack aircraft was appointed, which in case of an emergency immediately went up in the air

    And hardly anywhere, which commander violated this order, the corpses were taken out at best.

    What happened in Syria:
    - the strike group laid out everything in the target area, because when one of the planes was shot down, they could not help the comrades when they were shot in the air
    - helicopters of the search and rescue group were on duty not on the ground (damn kerosene, saved !!!)
    - two Mi-8 and only two Mi-24 were assigned to the cover group
    - the Mi-24 pair was not physically able to build a “carousel”, which led to the loss of one Mi-8, one of the PDG fighters (parachute landing group) and the shameful failure of the entire rescue operation as a whole.


    However, I can still add the following:

    As for the strike groups themselves when working on unfriendly territory.
    The minimum outfit of forces is not less than the link, that is, four sides. The pair is not able to perform a mutual cover.

    Someone will object that it is too expensive in our capitalist time? Is lost crew and equipment cheaper?
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 15: 04
      Well placed strength + escort! Only not for us to plan an air-ground operation, but for Serdyukov-Vasiliev ...
  50. 0
    5 February 2018 11: 43
    A strange war. It’s hard to call a civil war in Syria. If Russia is fighting with one Syrian army, the purpose of which
    to preserve constitutional power. And our ally has a different army of a different direction, wishing to overthrow Assad.
    Of course, it’s very sad that the Russian pilot died. I sympathize with my relatives and friends. I have one question that is who these bandits are.
    Partisans who fought on their own? Or are they people of allies or Kurds? Everything was mixed up in this war. I think our
    advisers will decide how to proceed in the future.
  51. +4
    5 February 2018 11: 43
    The article lumps everything together. It is not clear what the authors wanted to express. And to the major - Eternal memory.
    1. +2
      5 February 2018 13: 09
      The article is garbage.
  52. +3
    5 February 2018 11: 57
    As soon as I saw the title, the names of the authors immediately appeared. What is called "don't go to grandma's."
    The questions seem to be directed at the Ministry of Defense, but with an eye on Putin. It’s clear that elections are just around the corner. This is correct, foreign media are hitting Putin (read Russia) from the outside, to which we must add blows from the inside, and, importantly, from patriotic (is it patriotic?) positions.
    But let's go further and ask a very important question: did we win or lose in Syria?
    To begin with, it would be good to simply understand with whom we (and not only us) are fighting and for what?
    We entered Syria to defeat ISIS, and to defeat it as a PROJECT (a project is not a spontaneous formation, but someone’s well-thought-out, organized intention). This project was created in order to first chaotize the BV, then chaotize all other adjacent territories, and through this build a new world order with a single center of power (where it’s not difficult to guess). Such a world order can only be based on the rule of the strong, which means there is NO place in it for Russia (military power) and China (economics). So Syria is just one of the front sectors (another Donbass). Moreover, the front has many dimensions, not only the classic military, but also economic, cultural (vile films on the history of Russia), information (formation of a negative image of Russia in the world), information and psychological (pressure on the opinion and position of the Russian population - here Putin leaked , brought out, did not introduce, deliberate protrusion of shortcomings and deliberate suppression of achievements, etc., etc.). What about our enemy? And there is a SPLIT in the ranks of our enemy (for example, the attack on Trump in the American media and many other examples), not least for this reason, we are trying to act extremely carefully. So the invisible war continues on all other fronts. including here.
    PS. And of course, ETERNAL MEMORY to those of our guys who died in Syria, they did not pour slop on their own country, but did what they considered their duty. We can say about them that they were REAL.
  53. +4
    5 February 2018 12: 05
    We finished the operation in Syria or continue?

    There is a very clear answer to this question - NO, WE ARE NOT FINISHED! Idlib has not been cleared, which means the war continues. Syria is still waging a war on its territory, and what kind of end to the war are we talking about?
    And the fact that our Ministry of Defense announced the withdrawal of our forces, for whom was it said? This is not only a military component, but also a political and diplomatic one. The coalition, too, with its statements, dances like a Papuan with a tambourine.
    UNTIL SYRIA IS COMPLETELY CLEARED OF MILITATORS, THERE CANNOT BE ANY TALK ABOUT ENDING THE WAR AT ALL. Period.
  54. +5
    5 February 2018 12: 13
    The first question to the authors Alexander Staver and Roman Skomorokhov: “Who are you, exactly, to make claims to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation?”
    Second question: “Why did you decide that we will not have military losses, both human and in the form of equipment?”
    Third: “Why did you decide that you know how to plan combat missions, and military operations in general, with whom to be friends, interact, and how to do it*?”
    It’s a pity for the pilots and soldiers, and the families suffered losses, but “a la guerre comme à la guerre,” and talkers like Alexander Staver and Roman Skomorokhov should be given a life ban for clowning.
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 13: 08
      +1000, correct opinion.
    2. +2
      5 February 2018 14: 01
      The authors asked fair questions to MO! There were no complaints in the article. And not only the authors but also many others sometimes feel that the Defense Ministry is often not very good at planning military operations in Syria. We were baptized, it doesn’t help. We must not mindlessly defend the Moscow Region, but work on mistakes and be able to endure fair criticism.
  55. +1
    5 February 2018 12: 19
    Although no, we took revenge... We struck with precision weapons and destroyed more than 30 militants!

    If this can be done without the Su-25, why didn’t they do it?
  56. +2
    5 February 2018 12: 19
    Everything is correct, the most important thing for the author is how much they pay. You don't have to read the rest.

    By the way, the Air Force pays a LOT.
  57. 0
    5 February 2018 12: 35
    Maybe I don’t understand something, why aren’t planes like the Su-25 equipped with Khibiny or Vitebsk, which will disrupt missile guidance?
    1. 0
      5 February 2018 13: 16
      Because study physics.
  58. +1
    5 February 2018 12: 37
    According to the article: KG/AM.
    Moreover, along the way, the author achieved his goal: what a battle in the comments!
  59. -1
    5 February 2018 12: 40
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    How? Did he descend to low level and, from the VPU, precisely shoot several dozen militants who surrounded the pilot? Hypothetically possible.

    Why hypothetically? It's a stormtrooper! Moreover, he should not have abandoned his comrade. I would have dispersed all the surrounding bastards.
  60. +7
    5 February 2018 12: 41
    Get used to it, this is modern Putin's Russia. Here the lives of soldiers and ordinary citizens mean nothing. Savchenko was accused of murdering journalists of Russian citizens - she was pardoned, Erdogan “stabbed a knife in the back” - enough “apologies” (and, well, yes, we haven’t bought tomatoes for several months), planes fly unaccompanied and without protection from MANPADS (even on Wikipedia there is a list of fighter planes that were shot down by Igla and it is shamefully insignificant). Will anyone be punished for this? Do not make me laugh. With mournful faces they crow about what kind of guy is a hero and will wait for a new “hero”, because the underwriting and maybe will not go away. And then they wonder why all sorts of IOCs wipe their feet on Russia. If a country looks like a rag that doesn’t value its citizens, then they treat it like a rag.
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 13: 06
      Comment with the ears of the State Department.
      Clearly the propaganda of a cowardly pissant who chews his mother’s cheesecakes.
    2. +4
      5 February 2018 20: 45
      Antivirus2k, What are you doing in a hated country? Go to Urkaina, you'll see that you'll come in handy. As a field wife for the idiots from the national battalions.
  61. -1
    5 February 2018 12: 47
    Quote: flicker
    EVERLASTING MEMORY

    Aren’t you tired of singing “eternal memory”?
    Although, of course, for those who did not see the corpses of the guys, he himself was not under fire... he did not follow idiotic orders... The more silent heroes, the better.
    1. +3
      5 February 2018 14: 20
      Aren’t you tired of singing “eternal memory”?

      First of all, it's not called "singing." Secondly, these are the authors every time speculate on the death of Russian soldiers in Syria, and their death is used as a battering ram.
  62. +2
    5 February 2018 12: 57
    The Ministry of Defense is responsible for logistics support for the daily activities of the armed forces, so don’t wait for an answer. Contact us at the correct address. The tactics that led to the downing of planes and the loss of pilots were mainly due to political decisions made. Politics is the art of the possible. Excluding the force component or limiting it until a final political settlement leads to degradation of the situation. We urgently need to make a responsible decision: either win the war, or quit the game and call it a day.
  63. +2
    5 February 2018 13: 03
    An article by alarmists.
    Journalists are trying to build their ratings on Filipov’s name.
    1. +2
      5 February 2018 14: 23
      Alarmist article
      Yes, they are, perhaps, not alarmists - rather cynical troublemakers.
  64. +2
    5 February 2018 13: 08
    Well, what kind of nonsense are the authors of the article writing? Yes, a tragedy occurred, the pilot died, but no one said that peace had come to Syria, why is this: “We won in Syria or not?” Our contingent continues to participate in hostilities, and at the same time there are losses and drawing political conclusions from this fact is at least stupid. An investigation is currently underway during which the actions of the commander of the group of our troops in Syria will be assessed and it will be clarified where the MANPADS in this area came from. Unfortunately, during the conduct of hostilities there are losses, everyone involved in this area has them, the USA and Israel carefully hide their losses, fearing the reaction of the public, judging by the comments Russia should also do this, too many people want to use this fact in their political purposes.
    1. +8
      5 February 2018 14: 33
      Agree. Even the title of the article shows bias. And if the RF Ministry of Defense responds (the investigation is ongoing in any case, only the results may be classified), will the authors apologize publicly? I guess not, because these authors basically only have (quote:... the Azerbaijani, Tatar or Western Ukrainian oil worker in the northern Siberian regions is eternal. Well, they are experts. Moreover, they are specialists of the highest category. And hard workers until their palms are worn out... A. Staver: To whom is war, and to whom is mother dear. How the US destroys the Soviet army in 2017) and the Russian people are lazy and do everything wrong. In all his articles, everything demands repentance from Russians.
      1. +3
        5 February 2018 14: 58
        Just like that, the impression is that the authors are just waiting for an opportunity to throw something at their own country. And all this, as it were, with the best intentions.
        1. +6
          6 February 2018 22: 09
          You may remember that E. Masyuk (with human rights activist Kovalev) spoke with similar “exposing” articles to the first Chechen company, which regularly provided its broadcast for speeches by Dudayev and his closest associates Maskhadov, Basayev, Udugov and many others.
          1. +3
            7 February 2018 08: 52
            I remember until I found myself in the Chechen prison.
            1. +7
              7 February 2018 10: 46
              Yes, after the capture of the TV tower, near Karamakhi, there were videotapes from captivity with this “banner of the liberal intelligentsia,” a close friend of Basayev and the valiant warriors of Islam (Masyuk says this about herself). In the end, it turned out that for them she was loved and desired, like a commodity.
  65. +3
    5 February 2018 13: 10
    I feel sorry for the pilot. I feel sorry for his family and friends.
    But there is a war going on in Syria. People die in war.
    Pray to God and the Ministry of Defense that they don’t die every day, and not in large numbers.
    The authors would like to wish for the future not to throw hysterics and not to spread snot on this topic.

    PS:
    In Afghanistan, the Soviet Army acted independently. And only sometimes she used local units.
    ...and learn some hardware.
  66. +3
    5 February 2018 14: 11
    People in the comments are talking wonderful nonsense. The Su-25 is a well-armored attack aircraft (a battlefield aircraft, if anyone wants). And it is designed specifically for working in such conditions. It is not clear why interference in the form of shooting IR traps was not used. The evacuation thing is completely nonsense. Are people suggesting sending a helicopter covered with MANPADS into the area with a search and rescue team? It’s a no brainer that they will be met there. I don’t want to talk about what some people mean by the word “cover.” It is necessary to cover the attack aircraft from enemy fighters. In general, the situation is certainly unfortunate, but this is war. Well, the Supreme One with his blah, blah, blah, so he can even tell, well, not the truth about the actual division of Syria, if this is so, then what are we doing there in general (and there is no need to talk about the Chiches who will certainly return).
  67. -1
    5 February 2018 14: 28
    Quote: Dmitry Kuzhilney
    Pray to God and the Department of Defense that they don’t die every day, and not a lot.

    I’ll definitely go and light a candle for the repose of the Ministry of Defense...
    R.S. “Uncle Petya - are you an eccentric?” (With)
  68. 0
    5 February 2018 14: 59
    Let's hit the rake again! Where is the escort, the launch of MANPADS from the air is clearly visible! The main thing is to warn the bomber, and he will get out!! IA with an overload of 5-6 units. could send a big greeting to the Ruska zone! Probably the operation was planned by Serdyukov-Vasiliev...
  69. 0
    5 February 2018 15: 21
    Uh-uh, who is the author?
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  71. 0
    5 February 2018 15: 33
    crap from the comments
  72. 0
    5 February 2018 15: 44
    A real man! Warrior! It’s a pity I could have raised others, but that’s how it turned out. The kingdom of heaven to him.
  73. +2
    5 February 2018 17: 11
    Such authors will understand casualties in combat only when their wife and children are blown up. The fight against terrorists is nothing to them, as he admitted. And you can’t fight with them, because the military is paid little... Such scum, give them free rein, will bring the army to the level of the United States in terms of morale: run - if death threatens, this is not in the contract. In his opinion, loyalty to the Motherland must be measured in money.
  74. +3
    5 February 2018 18: 49
    Another dirty trick from Staver the Buffoon. Articles on VO become disgusting to read.
  75. +1
    5 February 2018 18: 57
    It seems to me that it's all about the elections. Our Chief hurried and declared victory. This is what we are like! But in reality, Damascus is being shelled from the suburbs, and there are military operations here and there in Syria. And how to understand this? I can only explain this by the ambitions of the Chief. Nothing more, but the dead... Well, let's give the dead the "Order of Courage", the star of the Hero of Russia. They are also consumables for the elite who defend the interests of Gazprom.
  76. +1
    5 February 2018 19: 10
    I have 2 questions: 1) Why didn’t the much-vaunted (the report was on “Star”) rescue service come?
    2) Why didn’t it work and was there even an electronic warfare system (also praised) that counteracts MANPADS, as well as heat traps?
  77. +1
    5 February 2018 19: 30
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Old26
    Bailouts of the pilot and the presence of helicopters in that area is not a 100% guarantee of saving the pilot.

    So, do not save, fearing new victims? belay

    No, there is simply no guarantee that if there are helicopters, as the comrade suggests New, then they will definitely save
  78. 0
    5 February 2018 19: 59
    Who said he was alone? Even in the video of the last battle you can hear the hum of turbines overhead! The Su-25 is a battlefield aircraft, and fire is inevitable here. War is war, another thing is the expediency of use in that situation, but few are specialists in this, so there is nothing to talk about! And the guy is a hero, no comments here!
  79. +1
    5 February 2018 21: 38
    I ran through the comments to the article about our tragedy on the Czech website Novinky.cz. People were split about 55/45. Here's one example:
    Ivan Samek, Prague 8
    Po, 5. února 2018, 14:10:44 | Souhlasim | Nesouhlasim | +68 / -6
    Ruští vojáci umí bojovat i umírat. Proto nemohou být v boji nikdy poraženi.
    Russian soldiers know how to fight and die. That is why they cannot be defeated in battle.
  80. 0
    5 February 2018 22: 01
    “If a cover fighter, for example a Su-24, was next to the Su-35 depending on the situation, the Turks in their F-15 would have indicated their presence.”
    The Turk was on the F-16
  81. +3
    5 February 2018 22: 28
    I read the comments - they are all smart, but there is no strength. Strategists from God. Everyone is aware of the subtleties and complexities of the situation in Syria, Russia and others like them. And I didn’t expect this at all from the respected Banshee... It’s kind of disgusting...
  82. 0
    5 February 2018 23: 15
    Typical situation. As soon as some kind of emergency happens in Syria, smart people with rich imaginations run in and start scribbling supposedly important questions, advice, criticism, etc. Relax gentlemen, you'd better go to the gym and lift the barbell... You're just a nobody, zero!!! compared to those who are participating in hostilities there in Syria...They started this military campaign without you, and they will finish it without you...To you, sitting here in comfortable conditions and not bearing any responsibility for your words, for There is no need to listen to the Moscow Region... because there is someone there to think, pose questions and solve them. And without mistakes, losses, there is no experience, which is exactly what the smart people who write their thoughtful works here lack...
  83. 0
    6 February 2018 00: 04
    Quote: Petr1968
    I agree. 18 years is not enough for the president. Give the next frontier, another 18 years !!! Here the main thing is not to rush .. a little by little, potihooonichku ... like something, slowly ... the main thing is not to rush))))

    Remind me WHAT methods can be used to bring a huge country from ruin and plow to the atomic bomb in 18 years??? Are you nostalgic for Joseph Vissarionovich while vilifying Putin?))) In the wrong place and at the wrong time, the author of the article asks his questions, openly speculating on the death of a soldier.
  84. +1
    6 February 2018 00: 46
    In Russia, to put it mildly, we have a lot of Asians, “guests” from very near abroad, wherever you go - they are everywhere and their dogs bark everywhere. Soon they will tell us that they are tired of us. They only cause crime and banditry. If they work like this only as martial arts trainers, although they are completely illiterate and inept in this area, I answer as I myself am a trainer with 35 years of experience, and they are all snotty and do not speak Russian. Or in trade, as security guards. What, we don’t have anyone to work as security guards or trainers? Or they simply live at our expense, selling drugs, which means death! And they drag their laws everywhere! They complained against me because, as the head of security at the plant, I came to them without their permission! And, as you know, the head of security has the right to enter anywhere without a report, at any time of the day or night, on the territory under his jurisdiction. 10 years ago they still worked in factories, sometimes. Not now! This is who the authorities need to take on! And, at a minimum, throw them back into the villages, let them live according to their own laws. I have nothing more to add.
  85. +1
    6 February 2018 03: 32
    Question for those in the know. If it is stated that the nearest detachment of tigers was 15 km away (it is not clear in which direction, they probably would not have made a turn), why did the plane not reach them? The video shows that there was some headroom. Or could the plane have fallen apart in the air or exploded (does it have tanks in its wings?)? And in general, what is the minimum altitude for ejection in order to land normally. I’ll go to my father and ask this too, he was jumping. Explain who knows. But just as they changed the commander in Syria, the losses began.
  86. 0
    6 February 2018 07: 30
    Quote: Orionvit
    Quote: Petr1968
    Give the next frontier, another 18 years

    What kind of childish arguments? The memory is short, forgot the 90s? Are you probably starving? I understand that just freak out with fat. For comparison, welcome to Ukraine, I will conduct a tour, maybe there will be something to compare with, if at all you are able to compare the facts. You have to watch, you are in the role of a blonde.

    As far as I understand, you have no more arguments other than “yesterday it was bad”? No, well, we didn’t live well, there’s nothing to start with...
  87. 0
    6 February 2018 09: 12
    I agree with the author of the article in everything. And I myself asked these same questions more than once in the comments. They haven’t remembered Palmyra yet.
    Silence......
    How many of our guys must die for professionals to take over the “command”? War is war, but when our guys die because of the stupidity of the command, it’s a crime. Who and when will call these idiots to account??????????
  88. +1
    6 February 2018 11: 59
    too much bile. Emotions from resentment and bitterness of loss. But it is impossible not to agree with many questions. Sometimes it seems that there is relaxation and, frankly, chaos in the Russian Armed Forces grouping in Syria, due to premature victory reports and the caressing of the military officials responsible for the situation.
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  89. +1
    6 February 2018 13: 01
    And most importantly, why the plane flew without an optical-electronic jamming station (SOEP), protection from thermal seeker missiles. Why didn't the commanders foresee this? After all, two days before the tragedy, militants fired at our SU-25 from a ZPU. Again there was a change of command and those who had no experience in combat arrived. And I don’t want to say bad things, but again for medals and length of service, with promotion. We know this, we passed. The life of a son, father, brother and friend is most valuable this.
  90. 0
    6 February 2018 16: 44
    The question needs to be raised about who specifically handed over or sold MANPADS to the militants, and not about what our air forces are doing in Syria. Our Aerospace Forces are fighting international terrorism, for those who have forgotten, and winning. The Americans promised our Defense Ministry not to supply MANPADS to the Syrian opposition, the Kurds, or militants of banned terrorist organizations. So where are the legs coming from, and isn’t it time to restore order by “opening” the chain of arms sales to people fighting against everyone in the Syrian Arab Republic, and finally end the civil war in this country, the end of which no one has declared?
  91. 0
    6 February 2018 18: 17
    “Here, at VO, we realized even then that if next to the Su-24 there was a cover fighter that relied on the situation, for example, a Su-35, the Turks in their F-15 would have indicated their presence. And there would be no need no sanctions, nothing. And the star would be useful to someone else." she’s just like Elena Gromova in terms of emotionality, in terms of competence, in terms of exposure.
    Everything is written correctly, but a residue remains - from an ordered, not sincere “report”.
  92. 0
    6 February 2018 21: 29
    Quote: Doliva63
    It seems that..didn’t shoot the “traps”....

    - the rook must have a system for automatically shooting heat traps. But there is still no LSOEP on it, which should do this.
  93. 0
    6 February 2018 22: 20
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    Victor Kuznetsov
    By the will of fate, I was twice in the Falklands. He took part in the rescue of British pilots. But only the British took their pilot. SHAME, we are waiting for the body of a HERO to be returned to us. A SHAME.
    42 minutes ago

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  94. 0
    6 February 2018 23: 53
    Does the pilot realize that something is flying at him?
    When does he begin to understand this, how much time does he have?
  95. 0
    7 February 2018 07: 04
    Liberalist whining has begun, my assessment of the article is a huge minus. The fact that there is a mess in the Moscow Region, I agree with the author of the article, but the question of whether the war in Syria is over for Russia or not is, in my opinion, clear as day for anyone with a brain, except for liberals and hacks of articles with loud headlines who love to jump on other people's bones. The war is not over for Russia as long as the United States considers itself the world hegemon and distributes its sanctions left and right. And it would be better to have such a war in Syria than at the borders of Russia.
  96. -1
    7 February 2018 08: 54
    When will reconnaissance and reconnaissance-attack unmanned aerial vehicles finally begin to be used for control observation flights of the territory, will we really have to wait for this for several more years? Their introduction into our troops is progressing unacceptably slowly, we need to speed up the work to put them into service as much as possible and begin their serial production, UAVs are urgently needed by our army in massive quantities, no matter how long this process can be delayed.
  97. 0
    7 February 2018 09: 50
    Someone on the forum correctly noted that in Russia, the heroism of some is often the bungling of others! And we, every time, hope that “they will draw conclusions and this will not happen again...” I wrote and immediately imagined how many who served in the SA smiled bitterly - unless another dent appeared on the handle of the military rake.
    And I really want to honor living heroes!
  98. 0
    7 February 2018 10: 13
    The downed attack aircraft is the Sultan’s response to a warning from Russia/Syria in the form of an attack by a Turkish bandit convoy, which was attacked the other day. Losses begin when politics interfere. “Victory”, truces, moratoriums... And then the losses begin.
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  99. 0
    7 February 2018 11: 12
    Where are these systems, like “a rocket is flying towards you” or these distracting lights?
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