Military Review

Why Uzbeks and Tajiks do not take the world

61
Why Uzbeks and Tajiks do not take the worldOn April 1, Uzbekistan “joked”: shut off the gas valve to Tajikistan and said that the most important thing for Tashkent is to supply gas not to Tajiks, but to the Chinese. In addition, the Uzbeks, according to them, fulfilled the volume of supplies for the I quarter. An unexpected joke dragged on: gas supply to Tajikistan was resumed only on the night of April 16 (on 00: 00 hours). However, "the whole of April - do not trust anyone."


Bypassing the prankster, the Tajiks, who have very little of their gas and who have to import it, decided to buy gas from Turkmenistan by transit through Uzbekistan. However, 4 of April, Prime Minister of Uzbekistan Shavkat Mirziyayev, in an open message to the Prime Minister of Tajikistan Akil Akilov, published on the government portal gov.uz, said: friend, the transit of Turkmen gas through the territory of Uzbekistan is not possible ”("OilCapital.ru" with reference to the RIA "News").

"Lenta.ru" reports that between Uzbekistan and Tajikistan “there is a contract for the supply of 200 million cubic meters of gas in 2012 year. 45 million cubic meters are guaranteed deliveries, for Tajikistan to receive 155 millions more, the parties had to confirm their intentions. ” Deprived of gas, large enterprises stopped in Tajikistan: “Tajiktransgaz” and “Tajik Aluminum Plant”. The Tajik authorities accused the Uzbeks of destabilizing the situation in the country, attempting to provoke social discontent in the country along with a man-made organization of a humanitarian catastrophe.

This is the second overlap of the gas valve to Tajikistan in 2012; the first took place in January - and also without prior warning. In January, the issue was quickly resolved by a government delegation from Dushanbe traveling to Tashkent. It was there that they signed a document on the supply of 200 million cubic meters, including 45 million in the first quarter.

Tajik "Avesta"whose correspondent was unable to contact representatives of Tajiktransgaz, writes:

“According to the source (from the energy departments of Tajikistan. - O. Ch.), According to the agreements reached, natural gas imports in the second quarter of this year will be 80 million cubic meters. “This volume is due to the fact that, on behalf of the Government of Tajikistan, all industrial enterprises must operate in two shifts,” said the source.

He did not disclose the cost of imported natural gas, and only noted that "he (gas) is mainly intended for industrial enterprises." “In addition, it is not yet clear whether the previously signed documents (in January of the current year) for non-guaranteed gas supplies for the current year will be fulfilled in the amount of 200 million cubic meters. m ", - he said."

And here is the information from Reuters (“Uzbekistan resumes gas supplies to Tajikistan”, “Reuters”, Roman Kozhevnikov), appeared on the network April 16:

“The representative of the Tajik state company TajikTransGaz said that the contract guarantees the supply of 155 million cubic meters of Uzbek gas by the end of the year at an initial price of 264 dollars per thousand cubic meters.

He stated that the contract price may change taking into account market conditions during the year, without giving additional information. ”

Probably “can change” - here is the key phrase.

Tajiks could find a way out of a complex energy stalemate, and at the same time overcome their total dependence on Uzbekistan by building the Rogun hydropower station on the Vakhsh. Here is what Peter Bologov writes about this ("Lenta.ru"): “But even here the Uzbeks intervened - starting from 2009, the trains with cargoes for the construction of the station are constantly being detained on Uzbek territory. In Tashkent, they say that the construction of hydropower plants will lead to a decrease in the flow of the Amudarya and a decrease in the amount of water needed by the republic for agricultural needs. They are also threatening an environmental catastrophe, while ignoring the fact that, unlike Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan has forgotten to think about the fate of the Aral Sea, allowing its remnants to finally disappear into the desert. ”

Developing the environmental theme in the tense relations of Tashkent and Dushanbe, P. Bologov talks about the aluminum plant, the TALCO state unitary enterprise of Tajikistan. This largest manufacturer of primary aluminum provides 75% of the country's currency earnings, which already says a lot. His stoppage could trigger an economic catastrophe in Tajikistan.

Another source of friction is the Farhad hydroelectric station, built during the Soviet era. As P. Bologov points out, legally this frontier hydropower station belongs to Tajikistan, but the dam — as was established in the Soviet era — is under the control of Uzbekistan. “Unofficial sources in Dushanbe believe that it was the refusal of the Tajiks to transfer the dam to their northern neighbor is the real reason for the cessation of gas supplies,” writes Bologov.

On the border fields of Uzbekistan, mines were laid from 1999 on which Tajiks occasionally explode (according to some estimates, more than a hundred people died). In Tajikistan, “spy” hysteria is growing: from time to time one Uzbek spy of Tajik nationality is imprisoned on 13, then another on 18. Uzbeks, in response, also "sew" spy cases with 14 and 20 terms in years (for more, see P. Bologova).

The authorities of Tajikistan have seen enemies for some time around the world. As American professor Stephen Blank writes, “The administration of the President of Tajikistan, Emomali Rahmon, has to deal with the revival of the activities of armed Islamists. Shortly before the fall of Mubarak’s regime in Egypt in February last year, Time magazine published a list of 10 “dictators in trouble” - autocrats who could soon lose their positions in power, in which Rahmon took 8’s place. In addition to building a gigantic state mosque, the head of Tajikistan initiated a number of radical measures, such as recalling students studying Islam from foreign educational institutions, including Al-Azhar University in Cairo ”("CentrAsia"). As for Uzbekistan, S. Blank is also predicting an “Arab spring” offensive there. However, in some ways the revelations of this professor at the Military College of the US Army resemble those of another American, John McCain, who predicted the Arab Spring in Russia in the winter.

By the way, Nusrat Rakhmat, a writer from Samarkand, found an economic and political solution to the situation with the Rogun hydropower station, which could mitigate the unfriendly relations of Tashkent and Dushanbe. At the end of November 2011, he wrote an open letter to the presidents of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan; it was posted on the Internet. Quote out of him:

“And about the Rogun hydropower plant I have my own point of view. I propose to reduce the height of the dam by at least 50 meters. I think the savings will be enough for the construction of another small hydroelectric station. We have to admit that in Uzbekistan some “scientists” too exaggerate its inexpediency and danger. Even in regional and district newspapers, satirical journals they began to illiterately criticize the project of this hydropower station, although it was designed in Tashkent. I personally disagree with some authors who write that there is a huge supply of salts under the hydroelectric station, and they seem to dissolve, or that the earthquake source is just under Rogun ”.

Thus, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are quarreling over the “indivisible” Soviet past. "Gas" and "cargo" (with Rogun hydroelectric station) stories - these are just the latest energy episodes from the 20-year-old post-Soviet hostility of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, which now has reached the geopolitical level.

Trend News Agency (Azerbaijan) writes:

“Which of the two neighboring countries is to blame in this situation is difficult to judge, because each of them has its own truth. Historically, in a certain sense, the parties have fallen into a situation dependent on each other and have not been able to distribute the resources of the region for almost 20 years. What is the threat of such an aggravation?

Some analysts predict a deterioration in relations between the two countries until the outbreak of military conflict. However, such a scenario is unlikely, because the two neighboring states are incommensurable in their power. Uzbekistan has been competing with Kazakhstan for regional leadership for a long time, and possibly to this day. Tajikistan, on the contrary, is considered, according to some reports, the poorest state in the region.

However, aggravation of relations with neighboring Uzbekistan may lead to instability in the region and serious problems in Tajikistan, and, perhaps, the negative outcome of the situation will not take long to wait ”(the translation source is "InoSMI").

For good reason on April 3, after Uzbekistan’s unexpected gas cut-off, Tajikistan (through the embassy in Moscow) made a statement not just anywhere, but to Russia.

Quote:

“Tajikistan squeezed this statement mainly because the situation in the Khatlon region bordering Uzbekistan, and in the country as a whole, to put it mildly, has ceased to inspire at least some optimism. In this area, which remained virtually without gas supply and railways, the ration of 70% of the population consists of bread and tea. According to a recent study by the World Bank and the UN Children's Fund, more than a third of Tajik children up to 5 years die from the effects of hunger. Further blockade will work to deepen the socio-economic disaster that, ultimately, dramatically shake the position of the power of "His Majesty" in Dushanbe, if not already shaken. This is openly stated in the statement of the Tajik diplomatic mission in Moscow.

Experts in Tajikistan predicted the intensification of Russian policy with the advent of Putin. But even they did not expect that events would begin to develop in anticipatory mode. The fact is that Uzbekistan is not just temporarily blocking transit communications, putting economic pressure on a neighbor, he is building a full-fledged iron curtain that physically leaves Tajikistan outside the post-Soviet space and hopes to join the new integration projects on the ruins of the CIS. The railway understands, gas supplies are stopped, minefields instead of borders, killing and crippling dozens of local residents per year and visa regime without air traffic ”(IA "REGNUM", Vigen Hakobyan).

Further, political scientist Vigen Akopyan writes that the difficult economic and political situation in Tajikistan is taken into account by the United States of America, as well as by the “international financial circles”, which are currently lobbying “initiatives to lay communications from Tajikistan in the Afghan direction”. Akopyan concludes: Uzbekistan is squeezing Tajikistan out of the CIS, and the Americans, having seized the initiative, “attach it to Afghanistan.” At the same time, Americans can promise border security (meaning the border with Afghanistan), but they cannot do what Russia does (here the author means providing the hungry population of Tajikistan and providing jobs to a million Tajiks in Russia).

“The second direction of the work of the Americans,” Hakobyan notes, “is Tajik-Iranian relations. US Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake 27 March in Dushanbe urged the countries of the region to refrain from relations with Iran. That is, the Americans would like to see Tajikistan as their logistical and resource base, perhaps, an operational center near Afghanistan or ... inside it - inside a new project of "regionalized" Afghanistan "(IA "REGNUM", Vigen Hakobyan).

Thus, the United States in one fell swoop at once of three birds with a kill: The America gains control over the border from two sides — Afghanistan and Tajikistan; strengthens its influence in another former Soviet region; gets an additional opportunity to pursue an anti-Iranian policy, separating Tajikistan from Iran.

And then - according to the well-known political formula "Divide and rule": "... According to the press service of the Tajik president, the American general, noting the" buffer role "of Tajikistan in preventing and spreading the threats of terrorism, extremism and drug trafficking, promised with 2014, after the withdrawal of coalition troops from Afghanistan, to increase military aid to Dushanbe. US Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake a week earlier clarified how and from where this assistance will come: some of the weapons exported from Afghanistan will be donated or sold to countries in the region. “Kill each other, allies of Western peacekeepers!” - sounds a dumb call ”(IA "REGNUM", Vigen Hakobyan).

Uzbekistan in Central Asia Akopyan compares with Georgia in Transcaucasia. According to Hakobyan, Tashkent, a member of the CSTO, pursues a policy of "surreptitiously" and, as a political scientist, "deliberately undermines the security of one of the members of the alliance."

As the "CentrAsia" (17 April), at the opening of the branch of the National University of Science and Technology MISiS, the leading educational and scientific center of Russia for the training of specialists in the field of metallurgy and materials science, President Rakhmon "said that Tajikistan is the only state in the world where the most important strategic objects of Russia are located most such as the 201 military base, the space tracking center "Window" in Nurek, and others. " Rakhmon also expressed confidence that the Russian leadership was being informed about the wrong information about Tajikistan. Quote: “Emomali Rakhmon called Russia the only strategic partner of Tajikistan and said that the strategic partner then deserves respect if he in turn shows respect for Tajikistan as his strategic partner.”

"Avesta" He also said: "The President stressed that" Tajikistan is always side by side with its strategic partner, and hopes for support from him in difficult times, "the head of state concluded."

Support? .. 201 base? .. “There are also Russian military bases that are located on the territory of other countries on a grant basis. This, in particular, 201-I military base in Tajikistan - the largest military unit outside Russia. Russia still pays nothing for its military presence, although this issue has been raised repeatedly in recent years. The appetites of the allies are constantly growing: if last year the figure was 125 million dollars annually or military aid for the same amount, today we are talking about 300 million, which is more than three and a half times the entire military budget of Tajikistan. For the time being, requests are in the nature of wishes and ignored by Russia ”("FLB").

But still not signed by President Rakhmon on the extension of the agreement on the deployment of the base in the territory of Tajikistan.

But the point is that against the background of economic and political difficulties with a neighbor Uzbekistan, Tajikistan manages to receive military assistance from the United States. We are talking about the notorious "security in the region."

As the "Avesta", March 31 hosted the meeting of the President of Tajikistan Emomali Rahmon with the commander of the Central Command of the US Army, James Mattis.

Quote:

“Noting the“ buffer ”role of Tajikistan in preventing and spreading threats of terrorism, extremism and drug trafficking, Mattis stressed that the United States will continue to provide technical assistance to border troops and other law enforcement and law enforcement agencies in Tajikistan.

According to the presidential press service, the interlocutors stated that of particular importance, the buildup of such assistance will be from the 2014 year, after the withdrawal of the coalition troops from Afghanistan. ”

For the 2013 year, by the way, the States plan to allocate Tajikistan 1,5 million dollars for military aid. This as indicated "Avesta", "Almost twice the amount of the appropriations already allocated for this purpose for the current 2012 year." Where will this money go? For the creation of armed forces prepared for cooperation with the forces of NATO and the USA - in peacekeeping and other operations.

So, America really places some hopes on Tajikistan. And the president of the latter, probably, should apply with statements not only to Moscow, but also to Washington. Indeed, the alignment is convenient: Moscow employs Tajiks, and Washington gives money to reform the army and promises "security." From Washington, therefore, Tajikistan is satisfied with 1,5 million dollars, but let Moscow lay out all 300.

Why, only: “No one can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or one will be zealous, and about another will not be stolen ”(from one famous book).

Uzbekistan has also noticeably stepped up lately all-round cooperation with the United States. Not only Emomali Rakhmon met with Mattis, but also Islam Karimov. If Rakhmonov Mattis arrived on March 31, then Karimov got 29.

The Uzbek and American sides talked about the economy, politics, about countering the "new challenges and threats", about ensuring "regional security and stability." Reports about it "Fergana.news". The named edition also notes that “recently a number of high-ranking US officials have visited Uzbekistan. So, in October, the US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Mark Grossman and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited Tashkent on 2011. In November Uzbekistan was visited by the Commander of the Central Command (CENTCOM) of the US Land Forces Lieutenant General Vincent Brooks, in December by the Commander of the Transport Command (TRANSCOM) William M. Frazer ”.

In early February, the US State Department 2012 lifted the restrictions on military assistance to Uzbekistan, introduced in 2004, for the reason that Uzbekistan did not care about “human rights”. “At the same time, Washington did not conceal that they want to strengthen relations with Uzbekistan due to the fact that one of the routes for supplying NATO troops in Afghanistan runs through this republic. As US Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake noted, the United States is interested in assisting Uzbekistan, since the American side thereby provides support for its troops ”("Lenta.ru"). In 2012, America plans to finance Uzbekistan with 11,8 million. The United States is planning to supply Tashkent with night vision devices, navigation systems, body armor, communications and tracking devices (New Eastern Outlook, Sergey Rasov).

In general, Robert Blake helps Tashkent with one hand, and Dushanbe with the other. Moreover, the hand that helps Uzbekistan is much more generous than the hand endowing Tajikistan. The second hand acts as if formally, almost according to the Nietzschean principle: “Falling - push”. This is understandable: if Tajikistan is viewed by the States as a poor border area, then Uzbekistan with its gas (and oil) and claims for regional leadership cannot be bought for a half million.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
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  1. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov April 18 2012 08: 18 New
    19
    You read, well, we got all these bai. Return illegal immigrants, in a week all these “presidents” in Moscow will be ready to lick their shoes.!
    1. vadimus
      vadimus April 18 2012 08: 28 New
      13
      Yes, there were only buys and remained ... The entire male population has long been quitting in Russia ...
      1. esaul
        esaul April 18 2012 08: 51 New
        +9
        This is what happens when "the shoemaker bakes cakes, and the cakesman smokes the boots." So it is in Tajikistan. Well, not Rahmon, the statesman, but the collective farm chairman! She brought a hard one to the top post in the country, but forgot to teach. This hmyr (Rakhmon) still does not calm down - hints to Russia that he has a bunch of folders on the table with proposals for building bases from other countries, but he is faithful to the Russian agreements! You shouldn’t believe him! Gaster then mix it with goat shit. And Karimov jumps with his freaks. When the states of Afghanistan leave, they will quickly remind him of human rights, a corrupt goat.
        1. Shohmansur
          Shohmansur April 18 2012 09: 01 New
          -17
          How joyful it is to realize that statesmen rule in Russia, not like in Tajikistan. The ministers of education, health, what’s there, the defense are so statesmen, even envy gnaws at why they did not take me - I can also lead. And the president, already an entire colonel. Confused by the memories of former colleagues, speaking of the Colonel as a gray mouse. Yes, everything is better than the director of the collective farm.
          Yesaul, could you manage a collective farm? Moreover, the Russian collective farm, when the machine operators on the ears, when the milkmaids were laid on the cows, and it’s a matter of honor for each worker to rob the native enterprise. I think we could, if we are all great masters!
          1. esaul
            esaul April 18 2012 09: 32 New
            15
            Shohmansur, you are so secretive ... But according to your remark that you "... always beat ..." I understood who you are and now I understand your anger at the fact that our colonel (by the way, we must give him due to the fact that, being at the highest post in the state, he did not appropriate any extraordinary ones and did not hang an iconostasis on his chest), unlike your collective farmer, he brought the country to a level where Russia does not dare to shut off the gas valve and dismantle the connecting railway branch and threaten, without fear of getting in the face or the return of hundreds of thousands of Gaster to their homeland, th about this homeland will lower below the plinth. You do not hold on to the orphans and the wretched about us. You root for your country for your compatriots. forced to live away from their families, working in such a restless and not organized, as you say, country. Please refrain from frequently using very emotional allusions to “strong” words. Consider this a warning.
            1. Shohmansur
              Shohmansur April 18 2012 09: 40 New
              -2
              A warning? Should I cry or laugh? And best of all, I will cry with laughter. And I will imagine how the great Yesaul expels strangers from the country wassat
              I read your opus on the development of Russia with such pleasure. I wanted to get citizenship, one thing hinders me, I have citizenship. And about the exploits of the great ... you don’t need to sing, when we protect our citizens abroad, then you open your mouth while sniffing a Yesaul in a rag. Anyway, you wrote utter nonsense. I will answer you with a poem
              one great Tajik (the name still will not say anything to poorly educated people):
              Truly miraculous deeds, brainless bodies ascend,
              nature endowed them with stupidity, and tribal nobility exalted.
              By the way, tell us about your deductive method, how did such a ciliates shoe understand who I am?
              1. esaul
                esaul April 18 2012 09: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Shohmansur
                Should I cry or laugh?

                It’s violet to me what you’ll do, do not overdo it in expressions and "We will be happy ..."
                1. Shohmansur
                  Shohmansur April 18 2012 09: 51 New
                  -1
                  You warned me. I would like to know what exactly is the warning ?! Be consistent.
              2. Uralm
                Uralm April 18 2012 10: 09 New
                11
                Shohmansur
                You can’t be so rude. Judging by your words, you cannot be allowed to go to settlements without a muzzle
                You decide nothing evil
                1. Shohmansur
                  Shohmansur April 18 2012 10: 19 New
                  +1
                  Uralm. Maybe I'm too hot, but before you throw words to the wind, you need to live among the people. I never deified the Tajiks, but believe me, if the Tajik is your friend, he will never leave you in trouble. We beat, beat us. I am Russian Lenya, a friend of Tajiks Furshed. And I’ll say one more thing, of all the nations I have encountered, only in Wed. Asia respect the law of hospitality. Never ever! they will not refuse a piece of kulchi. I will not say anything about the attitude to the Russian soldier, I have never seen in Russia such a reverence for the warrior I was used to in Tajikistan.
                  And to close the topic completely I’ll say, I am Ukrainian, not Tajik or Uzbek. Orthodox, not Muslim. I will not allow anyone to insult my fellow countrymen.
                  1. Uralm
                    Uralm April 18 2012 10: 36 New
                    +8
                    Shohmansur
                    I just realized over the years. What cannot be rude is always bad. I am Muslim and respect smart people
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay April 18 2012 10: 53 New
                    +5
                    Shohmansur!
                    Reading you there is a feeling of disgust!
                    What does it mean *** nations that I encountered, only in Wed. Asia respect the law of hospitality. Never ever! they will not refuse a piece of kulchi *** ???
                    So you came across representatives of nations that are worthy of you !!
                    Do you want to say that Russians, Ukrainians, Azerbaijanis, Tatars will leave you hungry ??
                    Just as a small person you met small people and representatives of one or another nation!
                    Not the happy one who eats satisfyingly, but the one who treats !!

                    And then immediately write that they say you are not a Tajik, but a Ukrainian! Not a Muslim, but a glorious one !! Suddenly you will get choked up because of belonging to one or another religion or nation !! Nobody is going to insult your fellow countrymen, do not * heroically * tear on your shirt!
                    You have to be a man !!
                    1. Shohmansur
                      Shohmansur April 18 2012 10: 57 New
                      0
                      Yarbay, that maimuni kuni is dry.
                    2. Ascetic
                      Ascetic April 18 2012 17: 43 New
                      +6
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Not the happy one who eats satisfyingly, but the one who treats !!


                      Gold words.
                    3. Shohmansur
                      Shohmansur April 18 2012 18: 11 New
                      -6
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Not the happy one who eats satisfyingly, but the one who treats !!

                      So take and give Artsakh. I did not expect such generosity from you. Well done! love
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay April 18 2012 21: 07 New
                        +1
                        Shohmansur!
                        I had no doubt that you are a small man by nature!
                        give flowers to your beloved, they are more important to her!



                        we have a proverb, or rather the order of the elders:
                        Vetenen Behshish Diamond! which means homeland in translation - you cannot give!





                        And the blackest flour
                        One who is envious of others in everything.
                        All my life, breathing longing and anger,
                        Knotted by his soul
                        2. Behind him is a powerful villain,
                        A rapist who hates people.

                        and the impossibility of committing evil
                        He, like the torment of hell, is heavy.

                        3. And the third martyr comes after him,
                        One who is longing for thirst.

                        All his life he only guards prey
                        And, afraid to miss, trembling over her.

                        4. The fourth is a miser. Though the treasury is full
                        He knows neither joy nor sleep.

                        Tired of fear of ruin, he
                        In life, hell is doomed.

                        5. The fifth sufferer - thirsty for ranks,
                        His destiny is both miserable and severe.

                        The dream of the hill he lives.
                        To rise well - the mind is missing.

                        6. The sixth is ignoramus. Restraint of others
                        He calls them cowardice,

                        Seeing no dignity in anyone
                        He covers himself with shame.


                        God be your judge Shohmansur!
                      2. Shohmansur
                        Shohmansur April 19 2012 07: 28 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Reading you there is a feeling of disgust!

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        So you came across representatives of nations that are worthy of you !!

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You have to be a man !!

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        I had no doubt that you are a small man by nature!

                        Peace to your home.
                2. dark_65
                  dark_65 April 19 2012 08: 55 New
                  -1
                  Singer of the East? ... or popoliz?. In any scenario is wrong.
            2. aksakal
              aksakal April 18 2012 10: 17 New
              +6
              Quote: Shohmansur
              And you don’t need to sing about the exploits of the great ones, when we defend our citizens abroad, then you will open your mouth while you sniff the esaul in a rag. Anyway, you wrote utter nonsense.

              - Shohmansur, in my opinion everything is clear - Tajikistan is not in a position to play independence, there are only enemies all around. From the South - the Taliban, from the East - China, striving to grab the territory piece by piece (by the way, Esaul did not mention that vast territories were given to China. Who allowed you to give this territory, conquered by your great ancestors, to some kind of China? Why didn’t you try to be worthy of their great ancestors?), from the north - Uzbekistan. Allied with the United States - big risks, they throw with the help of their political technologies, look at Egypt.
              An alliance with Russia, I think, is the optimal solution. Anyway.
              1. Shohmansur
                Shohmansur April 18 2012 10: 27 New
                +4
                There has always been and will be one opinion. Tajikistan, like the whole of Avg. Asia should cooperate exclusively with Russia! Only the Russian Ivan brought to the CA good, knowledge, technology. In turn, in the 20s of the last century, Tajiks sheltered my family expelled from Ukraine as enemies of the people. Unfortunately, in Russia, in Tajikistan, Uzbekistan ... they forgot how they divided the bread in half, how the boboshka fed the Russian soldiers.
            3. Victor
              Victor April 18 2012 10: 28 New
              11
              Quote: Shohmansur
              Truly miraculous deeds, brainless bodies are being exalted, nature has endowed them with dullness, and tribal nobility has exalted.


              You shouldn’t be so, Shokhmansur. And Jami and Aini are not alien to the Russian man. I at one time finished ten years in Dushanbe, the district of the Oil and Fat Combine. I can tell you with full confidence that at any industrial enterprise the head of a Tajik always had a Russian specialist in his first steps (a real specialist, not a diploma). I also want to note that the most far-sighted Tajik intellectuals and engineers preferred to educate their children in Russian schools, as did the Tajik party elite, who, by the way, for the most part subsequently left their country and went to Russia for permanent residence. Therefore, it is not surprising that Tajikistan has no professional leadership. You can take offense at Esaul at least as much, but he wrote the truth. As for your veiled curses, they are also prohibited in this form on the site, about which I will send you a warning. Let's learn to discuss with a cold head, and not kicking out of our pants.
              1. Shohmansur
                Shohmansur April 18 2012 10: 40 New
                -1
                Dustoni Aziz. And I lived in Shokhmansur, behind Sadbarg. Read my comments below, I fully spoke about the relationship between Russia and Tajikistan. The poem was written by Abu Ali ibn Sino. My respect and respect.
                1. Victor
                  Victor April 18 2012 10: 55 New
                  +5
                  I have great respect for Avitsena. This man was centuries ahead of humanity, and not only in poetry, but also in medicine and much more. May peace be in your home!
            4. Weyland
              Weyland April 23 2018 17: 12 New
              0
              Quote: Shohmansur
              I will answer you with a poem
              one great Tajik (the name still will not say anything to poorly educated people):

              Ibn Sina hi known even in wild Europe (under the nickname "Avicenna"). Although in the rubai genre, another Tajik is much more famous - from Nishapur hi (who is “the greatest sage of both Easts, Proof of the truth, Help of Faith. Victory Father ...) The question is different: do you, as a descendant of the Keyanids (judging by“ Shokh ”) really consider Rakhmon a great statesman? I do not idealize Putin, but not Russians go to Tajikistan to earn money!
              And about "
              Quote: Shohmansur
              Of all the nations I have encountered, only in Wed. Asia respect the law of hospitality.

              so this law was brought to them, oddly enough, by the wild bloodthirsty conquerors from the East: "If you ride the steppe and see people sit and eat, get off your horse, sit down and eat with everyone. And woe to the one who dares to drive you away boiler! " ("Yasa"). And since they were the only guys in history who managed to bend the Russians for a long time, then this custom actually exists with us.
          2. aksakal
            aksakal April 18 2012 10: 26 New
            +3
            Yesaul, you cannot compare the capabilities of Russia and Tajiks in matters of protecting their interests. And even more so to blame the Tajiks for the absence of these opportunities - they are those that were inherited from the USSR. And they set aside interests as they can, perhaps these methods are not pleasant to the Russians (including you), but they are Tajiks, not Russians, they have their own interests. And here the posts about feudal things went right away, you have the same hint here. There would be no feudalism, would this feudalism have long been so at odd with each other so much that there would be all of Central Asia in peacekeepers. Everything is decided civilly, unlike some civilizators who are crumbling themselves, but have already had a fight more than once, moreover with their most beloved neighbors. Did you understand.
            Therefore, I ask you to leave here an arrogant-patronizing tone, let's constructively. what could be done to improve.
        2. Ribwort
          Ribwort April 18 2012 10: 28 New
          -2
          Quote: Shohmansur
          The ministers of education, health, what’s there, the defense are so statesmen, already envy gnaws

          Surprising reaction and the number of minuses. So many times between themselves discussed the reform of education, the army, health. So many copies are broken, but ... It’s worth saying about this to a person who is not a citizen of Russia and the minuses flew and Serdyukov already seems not so unambiguous ... It turns out that we live by the principle: “Serdyukov is a bastard, but this is OUR bastard!” Let us be consistent and acknowledge our own failures not only "quietly" between ourselves ...
      2. Victor
        Victor April 18 2012 10: 51 New
        +1
        esaul Good day, Valera! You're right about Karimov. Once Russia already saved him from the first color revolution, but apparently the hunchback grave will correct it. As for the second - Imomali Rohmon, then the price is much simpler. Banal incompetence and buyish greed. On the one hand, it’s very scary if the Mujahideen fry the backside, on the other hand, I really want money. Greed, for the majority of the Bai class in Asia, is the main postulate for life (not to be confused with ordinary people that they will share the last cake, it is tested by their own experience in Dushanbe and in Kulyab, Fakhrabad, etc.) For the loot at the bai, the roof is demolished completely . What country, what is the conversation about, if you can later roll a thread with a bag of greenery. Only every time they forget that the majority did not roll, but remained to lie in their dusty and rocky ground.
        As for the disagreements between the Uzbeks and the Tajiks, they were with the union. Tajiks are Indo-Europeans and have always gravitated towards Persians, and Uzbeks are Turks. Disagreements were laid a very long time ago and were ethnic and civilizational in nature. Now it’s just a new level.
        1. 755962
          755962 April 18 2012 11: 48 New
          +3
          Quarrels will not lead to anything good. I can only guess who it is to the advantage of and where the wind is blowing .... inspiring the "star-striped 5 column". And despite the fact that both countries are members of the CSTO, both are important in terms of ensuring the security of the southern borders of the EurAsEC Common Economic Space.
        2. pepper
          pepper April 18 2012 12: 01 New
          -2
          Russia is a country that is trying to take on the functions of a leader in the Central Asian region. At the same time, she is the leader of the CST. Question: Is Russia able to restore order and “resolve” conflicts between its supposed allies?
          1. Odinplys
            Odinplys April 19 2012 03: 22 New
            +1
            pepper,
            Russia is not trying ... Russia is a leader in its essence ....
            And you don’t need to steer anything ... 15th ... republics ... This will be Russia ... And ... not far off already ...
        3. esaul
          esaul April 18 2012 13: 27 New
          +1
          Victor,
          Victor, salute. Last year I had to communicate with the Tajiks. So they say without any patriotism that there is no question of a human right there. There is a right of money. Total. You can kill at least a few people, but the money will smear you without any problems. A buyback, a bribe, and extortion are elevated to the rank of almost official politics.
  2. chukapabra
    chukapabra April 18 2012 12: 14 New
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    You read, well, we got all these bai

    cute scolding - only amuse. They can’t divide another melon
  • Dust
    Dust April 18 2012 08: 29 New
    +5
    These Tajiks are strange - in their position, an “independent” policy is somehow too reckless to carry on! The gas valve on the other side, the barrier on the road - too ...
    America is far away, Russia is a little closer, but attacks against Russia have already been repeatedly attacked almost out of the blue, as if in trifles. and big ...
    1. Tersky
      Tersky April 18 2012 08: 43 New
      +6
      Quote: Dust
      Strange these Tajiks
      But what is strange here, if they are what the Uzbeks rolled back to the feudal system. Naturally, politics meets state standards.
  • Shohmansur
    Shohmansur April 18 2012 08: 38 New
    -1
    That's why we always beat Uzbeks. E ... nye traders! am
  • Uralm
    Uralm April 18 2012 09: 12 New
    +5
    Uzbeks and Tajiks are freaks. And there was Omar Khayyam !!!!!
    I built for knowledge, the innermost chamber
    There are few secrets that my mind could not comprehend
    But I know one thing, I know nothing
    Here are my thoughts on the final result
    1. Mart
      April 18 2012 09: 14 New
      +5
      If the truth is slipping again,
      Do not try to understand the incomprehensible, friend.
      Take the cup in your hand, remain ignorant.
      There is no sense, believe in the study of science.
      1. Shohmansur
        Shohmansur April 18 2012 09: 17 New
        +1
        The spirit of slavery lies in the idol and in the Kaaba.
        Ringing bells is the language of humility slave.
        And slavery the black seal lies equally
        On the rosary and the cross, on the church and mihrab.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 18 2012 09: 43 New
          +4
          Be joyful, do not be sad in vain,
          Be right on an unrighteous path.
          And since at the end - nothing, drop the bag of care,
          To make your path easy to pass.
          1. almost demobil
            almost demobil April 18 2012 10: 01 New
            +7
            The Forest Raised a Christmas Tree,
            she lived in the forest
            slim in winter and summer
            smart was ...
        2. Uralm
          Uralm April 18 2012 10: 02 New
          +3
          The face of the rose is freshened by the breath of spring
          The eyes of the beloved beauty of the meadows are full
          Today is a wonderful day, friends, take the glasses
          And quit thinking about the winter cold, they are always sad
          1. Shohmansur
            Shohmansur April 18 2012 11: 03 New
            -2
            This noisy street seems deserted to me
            I am chained to myself for no reason.
            I wander and dream of my sweet homeland.
            O my country, motherland! Remember the lost son.
            If you haven’t seen a heaven above you,
            Never to understand you, friend, and my ruins.
            Unfamiliar language ... incomprehensible bird singing ...
            Here alien rains and alien clay on shoes.
            We could not sympathize with the languor of a stranger,
            For any native valley seemed home.
            I am a stranger. I wander and dream of a sweet homeland.
            Oh, foreign land, foreign land, foreign land, foreign land, foreign land!
        3. Weyland
          Weyland April 23 2018 17: 15 New
          0
          Quote: Shohmansur
          The spirit of slavery lies in the idol and in the Kaaba.

          Are you sure this was really written by Khayyam? He wrote about a hundred rubyes, and ascribe to him as many as thousands ...
  • Uralm
    Uralm April 18 2012 09: 29 New
    +5
    To live a wise life, you need to know a lot
    You are the main two rules, remember to start
    You better starve than anything.
    And better be alone than with anyone
    1. jamalena
      jamalena April 19 2012 21: 49 New
      -1
      - Yes, here I see all the poets gathered!
  • virm
    virm April 18 2012 09: 33 New
    -5
    The current view is that the economies of the republics of Wed. Asia are in a deplorable state, not quite true. Maybe even the opposite. This is artificially formed in the mass consciousness, an opinion that does not reflect reality. According to many indicators of economic development over the past 10-12 years, the Russian Federation lags behind the BSSSR countries.
    ===
    In 2011, the largest GDP growth among the CIS countries for 2011 was recorded in Turkmenistan, where it amounted to 14,7%, the CIS Interstate Statistical Committee said.
    The economy in Uzbekistan in 2011 grew by 8,3% in 7,4%, in Tajikistan - by 5,7%, in Kyrgyzstan - by 5,3%, in Belarus - by 5,2%, in Ukraine - by XNUMX%.
    In Kazakhstan, Moldova and Armenia, the Statistical Committee provided only figures for GDP growth for January-September of the 2011 of the year - 7,2%, 6,7% and 4,4%, respectively.
    Russian GDP in 2011 year grew by 4,3%, and the rate of growth of the Russian Federation was ahead of only Azerbaijan, whose economy in 2011 year grew by 0,1%.
    ===
    Similar data, not only by generalized indicators (GDP, PPP), but also by such specific things as the increase in livestock numbers, the length of roads under construction, etc.
    The question arises - why do we, in Russia, are told that in Wed. Asian complete ass? I guess that we are imbued here achievements our power. Moreover, in order to somehow justify the mass migration of Asians to Russia. Well, they suffer there, how not to help.
    In either case, the Russian authorities behave like card cheaters, deceiving here and now, and not thinking about the consequences for the country.

    PS
    It was ridiculous to listen, during the election hysteria, how the Zaputinists broadcast: "V. Putin saved the country from collapse."
    And the pres. Uzbekistan (Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, etc.) also saved Uzbekistan (Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, etc.) from collapse?
    1. Shohmansur
      Shohmansur April 18 2012 09: 48 New
      -10
      Dear, you wrote in vain. Yesaul will come and punish everyone crying
    2. esaul
      esaul April 18 2012 10: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: virm
      In 2011, the largest GDP growth among the CIS countries for 2011 was recorded in Turkmenistan, where it amounted to 14,7%, the CIS Interstate Statistical Committee said.
      The economy in Uzbekistan in 2011 grew by 8,3% in 7,4%, in Tajikistan - by 5,7%, in Kyrgyzstan - by 5,3%, in Belarus - by 5,2%, in Ukraine - by XNUMX%.
      In Kazakhstan, Moldova and Armenia, the Statistical Committee provided only figures for GDP growth for January-September of the 2011 of the year - 7,2%, 6,7% and 4,4%, respectively.
      Russian GDP in 2011 year grew by 4,3%, and the rate of growth of the Russian Federation was ahead of only Azerbaijan, whose economy in 2011 year grew by 0,1%.

      In general, with such comparisons, the volume of economies must be taken into account. Of course, if a dekhkan has two ketmen against yesterday's one, this is 100% economic growth.
      Quote: virm
      It is likely that we are imbued with the achievements of our government.

      Well, and about the achievements, I'll try to throw you a link. I hope you see something for yourself. Well, but no - your right. --------- yes The production sharing agreement, which allowed Russia to extract oil and gas for nothing, was later utilized by Putin, no longer allows Western companies to fish in troubled waters in Russia. In part, this can explain the violent desire of any kind to return to the Russian oil and gas production market under any kind. Putin put oil giants off Russian coils, now you need to go back in any way. The situation is aggravated by the fact that forecasts for the cheapening of the dollar against oil are increasingly threatening the US and EU financial systems.
      It turns out that no matter how hard hard currencies try to remain hard, they are cheaper relative to hydrocarbons. The process of rising oil prices is an objective process of currency devaluation. That is, it was originally planned, with the help of currency management, to keep the oil price under control, but when the currencies themselves became unstable, now they themselves have become the object of adjustment.
      In this case, we need to produce more oil ourselves for dollars and thereby strengthen the dollar. Then the currency will not drag on oil, but it will be one with it. No matter how hard they try to convince us of alternative energy sources, it seems that there is no replacement for hydrocarbons yet. While there was no alternative to the dollar as a single payment instrument, the United States got away with it, any financial adventure. Now it seems the situation is starting to change.
      There is a real threat that oil exporting countries and consumers will switch to direct payments in national currencies. In this case, the fate of the dollar will be unenviable. The United States, of course, will not give up the palm without a fight, but the world is too big to fight with everyone. In addition, US policy over the past 10 years is simply suicidal for its authority, and therefore for the dollar. Because of this, the President-cyclist rode constantly with a stuck physiognomy, because he could not balance, and now it turns out that it was very important not only when riding a bicycle.
      In general, the pursuit of oil giants in Russia is still a struggle for survival in the market. One such success was able to boast this week of Exxon Mobil which, according to the results of the 2011 year, lost the world palm to the Chinese company PetroChina. Based on the results of the signed agreements, Exxon Mobil together with Rosneft will produce oil and gas in the Black Sea and in joint exploration and development of the shelf in the Kara Sea. To make the deal look more interesting, the Russian side has provided a number of benefits, including tax for Western companies. Here, as they say, everything is clear.
      The Russian oligarchs manage to get their money in their pockets well, but they have no experience in producing their own oil. Therefore, Western companies are attracted, where there is no doubt, too, experience in packing in full, but there is also experience in production, even in such difficult regions as the Kara Sea shelf. That is, what Western companies win in Russia seems to be understandable: they save on taxes and insure, and insure their own financial system. What does Russia receive in return.
      It was widely announced that Russia was part of a production project in Texas, and everything had already been explored there, part of a deep-sea drilling project in the Gulf of Mexico, and part of a project for oil production in Canada in oil sands. A special point was announced that Russia enters the US oil and gas market. No tax benefits have been proposed by anyone to the Russian company Rosneft. How attractive it is from a commercial point of view, rather no than yes.
      In order to understand what is really happening, you need to go back a little, maybe a couple of weeks, and remember what happened then in the USA. And then this was what happened. Republicans tried to wrest subsidies and tax breaks for their oil companies from the budget. Republicans criticized Obama for refusing to build an oil pipeline from Canada, Republicans tried to blame Obama for the high price of gasoline at gas stations (as gas is called in the US). However, Obama doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t give money from the budget, he does not intend to cancel existing ones either.
      What will Rosneft get by entering the US market? Fierce competition, possibly even fierce. No tax benefits and risks associated with deepwater drilling. Can someone imagine how much Russian companies would cost an oil leak similar to a leak in the Gulf of Mexico during an accident on the BP platform Deepwater Horizon. There, no one would be embarrassed in fines. The Russians would pay for all their sins with one account. For everything from the flight of Gagarin to the deployment of missiles in Cuba. The cold war has the opportunity to get a financial continuation. In addition, the pipe Obama so stubbornly refuses, should just deliver from Canada to the United States the oil that Rosneft is going to produce there.
      So what kind of deal is it that Russia gives real oil offshore and takes on all the risks of deep sea drilling and oil sands, from which you can’t get money to extract oil from. There is no need to talk about oil production in the Black Sea, so why is it unlikely that anyone can explain the benefits of shallow and safe drilling there. The question arises. What is the actual benefit of Russia. Why do we need these swing-party? Of course, there is a benefit here, it lies a little deeper than oil in the Gulf of Mexico and the risks in obtaining this benefit are no less, but the benefit is so great that Putin decided to take a chance.
      The thing is that the oil industry in the United States is an industry that has overgrown with lobbyists as well as a pile overgrown with shells on the Odessa pier. Having entered the American market, Russian companies will be able to manage these very lobbyists and through financing certain people will be able to advance Russian interests, not the interests of oil companies, but the interests of Russia. This is a very big game, it requires a lot of effort and a lot of money, but it brings really huge results. The time of iron terminators like Vanikov and McCain has passed, such politicians have either left or are about to leave politics.
      Nowadays, more flexible and powerful designs are in use. Russia has not yet learned how to counteract them. Putin decides to insure Russia through influence on lobbyists in the USA. These people have done a lot of bad things for Russia and other countries of the world, they are omnivorous, they only need money, so their time has come to work for Russia. Well, working for Russia in the name of stability and peace is better than working for the American military-industrial complex for another war. Here, with such blueprints, friend Vladimir comes for his new presidential term. If you take into account what volumetric task he set for himself, then there will probably be two terms. yes
    3. Victor
      Victor April 18 2012 10: 38 New
      +4
      For five people and an increase in one cow, this is already 50% of GDP growth, a kilometer from the village to the village and a global success. Numbers game has always been in the arsenal of anti-Russian proteges. Do not compare, dear. If you understand the economy, give all the detailed figures, if not, do not introduce people to fornication.
      1. esaul
        esaul April 18 2012 10: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: Victor
        Numbers game has always been in the arsenal of anti-Russian proteges.

        Greetings, Victor. Yes, the guys like to compare the economy of the Russian Federation with the USSR, then the Russian Federation with the Russian Empire. And it always turns out that now everything is out of hand. And they just don’t want to see objective indicators! So - more convenient! And to say that it could have been much better if ... is already a national Manilov trait of many.
      2. virm
        virm April 18 2012 13: 07 New
        -3
        Information from the site of the Interstate Static Committee of the CIS
        http://www.cisstat.com/

        And the anti-Russian proteges are the current compradors in power. Including the sun itself.
    4. chukapabra
      chukapabra April 18 2012 12: 20 New
      +7
      Quote: virm
      In 2011, the largest GDP growth among the CIS countries for 2011 was recorded in Turkmenistan, where it amounted to 14,7%, the CIS Interstate Statistical Committee said.
      In Uzbekistan, the economy in 2011 grew by 8,3%, in Tajikistan - by 7,4%, in Kyrgyzstan - by 5,7%,.

      well, the transition from agrarian economics to industrial leads to enormous gains in GDP growth. The Papuans built one plant, and in terms of numbers, the industry seems to have grown 100 times
    5. mark021105
      mark021105 April 18 2012 23: 43 New
      +1
      Do you believe the official statistics of Uzbekistan? At least you are naive ...
  • aksakal
    aksakal April 18 2012 10: 07 New
    +8
    "Uzbekistan has been competing with Kazakhstan for regional leadership for a long time, and possibly to this day.. and one more thing: "then Uzbekistan with its gas (and oil) and claims for regional leadership for one and a half million can not be bought."- what the hell is rivalry with Kazakhstan? The economy of Kazakhstan is 4 times larger than the economy of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan, all of which are combined.
    But there are ambitions, where do you get them? laughing Let them think that they are competing with us on an equal footing, for smart and business people with interests in this region, for a long time such a question "who is the leader here?" - not worth it
  • synchrophasatron
    synchrophasatron April 18 2012 10: 23 New
    0
    it is necessary to accept Tajikistan as part of Russia, until they are completely dead from hunger
    1. Ribwort
      Ribwort April 18 2012 10: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: synchrophasatron
      it is necessary to accept Tajikistan as part of Russia, until they are completely dead from hunger

      Oh, damn it, breadwinner ... In Central Asia, stick a dry branch into the ground, stick fields and apricot grow or something ... And we have the Central Black Earth region half weeds overgrown.
      1. Victor
        Victor April 18 2012 11: 05 New
        +2
        Ribwort Man, you are somewhat wrong. In Asia, it’s not easy to grow a tree or wheat. The soils there are clay, loamy, stony. Something grows only where there is water, i.e. in the valleys, and then only with good irrigation. Dehkanin in Asia has a very hard time getting it. And now, when the irrational systems have completely collapsed, then in general a kayuk comes to people. That's what Imomali needs to think about with Karimov.
        1. Shohmansur
          Shohmansur April 18 2012 11: 08 New
          -1
          Victor, that's what they think about it. If the Rogun hydropower plant is erected, a kayuk will come to Uzbekistan, in turn, Tajikistan will concentrate a huge supply of water in its hands. And water for SA is life.
        2. Ribwort
          Ribwort April 18 2012 11: 20 New
          -1
          Quote: Victor
          Ribwort Man, you are somewhat wrong.

          Even with the Union, I had a chance to visit Central Asia. I did not have to try anything tastier than fruits that were sold on the market and at prices it was not expensive at all. The benevolence of people also left the most pleasant memories. One but ... Water! And here I completely agree with you. My previous comment was intended to draw attention to
          Quote: Ribwort
          And we have the Central Black Earth region half weeds overgrown.

          Sincerely ...
      2. synchrophasatron
        synchrophasatron April 18 2012 11: 54 New
        +8
        you feed them, half-Tajikistan is in Russia
        1. Ribwort
          Ribwort April 18 2012 16: 18 New
          -3
          Quote: synchrophasatron
          you feed them, half-Tajikistan is in Russia

          What does it mean to feed? They earn. And, honestly, I would not go to work on many types of work that they perform. And you?
          1. synchrophasatron
            synchrophasatron April 18 2012 16: 22 New
            +4
            I do not shy away from work. I’ll go to any job, if only my family would not go hungry
      3. aksakal
        aksakal April 18 2012 13: 06 New
        +5
        Quote: Ribwort
        Oh, damn it, breadwinner ... In Central Asia, stick a dry branch into the ground, stick fields and apricot grow or something ... And we have the Central Black Earth region half weeds overgrown.
        - If you act on the mind, there is nothing complicated. Russia is as interested in a rich, stable Tajikistan as the Tajiks themselves. More effective from the Taliban and from drugs as a barrier will be. Ask any Tajik who sweeps a yard in Russia what he chooses - such earnings and work on his field as a farmer, growing and creating raisins, halva, dried apricots, nuts, watermelons and peaches? Unsweetened, the share of Tajiks who left to work in Russia went away - his beloved son only learned to walk, he arrived - he went to school already. What a life? And the Russians are hard hit by such dumping in the labor market.
        Meanwhile, in the Far East, especially in Kamchatka, in Petropavlovsk and other watermelons are bought by SHARES. laughing Did it come to such a thing during the USSR? It's like a piece of cigarettes! Stupidity. And in Tajikistan, almost the entire crop rotes every year as much as they can — they themselves eat it, they don’t let Karimov go to the North, Kazakhstan and Russia, and he clearly said that the countries are rich, even if they pay more for our fruits. As a result, we chew Chinese cardboard apples, and in Russia we buy watermelon in shares.
        They put pressure on Karimov as it should, let him allow at least one transit road through Uzbekistan, and that there wouldn’t be a single gay man there. Help Tajiks solve energy problems. Help with the tourist cluster - have you been there in the Pamirs? This is a fairy tale, there is where to climb and climbers and skiers.
        1. Dust
          Dust April 18 2012 13: 46 New
          0
          Do Kazakhs miss a lot of cars from Uzbekistan?
          Everyone was rotting as much as they could, Kazakh traffic cops stood five hundred meters away and each had not pockets, but an abyss! Therefore, apart from hatred and anger, ordinary Uzbeks have nothing against Kazakhs ...
          1. aksakal
            aksakal April 18 2012 15: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: Dust
            Do Kazakhs miss a lot of cars from Uzbekistan?
            Everyone was rotting as much as they could, Kazakh traffic cops stood five hundred meters away and each had not pockets, but an abyss! Therefore, apart from hatred and anger, ordinary Uzbeks have nothing against Kazakhs ...

            - there was such a topic. Former Minister of Internal Affairs Suleimenov in a citizen, pretending to be a freight forwarder, drove from the Uzbek border to Russia, didn’t intervene in anything, he just laid out silently out of his pocket, at the end he loudly fired, which caused laughter among the people, like, "where he lived all this time ? " and closed all these posts to hell. Now they are forbidden, not all, only in important nodes, but in each population they are forbidden - you can complain. And this was not the state policy of Kazakhstan in relation to Uzbekistan, but just a rampant corruption, which, unfortunately, is struggling with modest success. But the Uzbeks in relation to the Tajiks is at the level of public policy. Do you see two big differences?
            1. Dust
              Dust April 18 2012 17: 20 New
              0
              And now no one is traveling - it’s still not profitable ...
              The flow of people leaving for work has also decreased - the risk is too great ...
        2. Marat
          Marat April 18 2012 20: 14 New
          +2
          The collapse of the Soviet Union led to the fact that we were divided and everyone from this is bad.

          I support the respected Aksakal not because he is my countryman - but because he says VERY right things - and we all say the wrong thing - we say who is right, who is to blame - who is better here - Tajiks or Uzbeks - we remember grievances - we criticize the Tajik leadership - all this nonsense - it turns out - in spite of the enemy I’ll sell a goat so that children don’t drink milk

          It is obvious that both Russia and Kazakhstan cannot “fatten” on their oil and ignore the “poverty” belt in the south

          Obviously, the discord between the Central Asian republics leads to restrictions on trade and living standards - this is bad for everyone - but good for the "world government" and the pendo with Tanu - to strengthen influence in Central Asia as opposed to the Eurasian Union

          It is obvious that Russia Kazakhstan (and Belarus together with them) should begin to more actively pursue a joint policy in Central Asia aimed at attracting all the republics to close cooperation with each other and, in the future, joining them in the CU - and then into the Union
          The isolation regime of Tajikistan could push this republic into the arms of the Mujahideen of the Islamists and pendos in
      4. chukapabra
        chukapabra April 18 2012 15: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Ribwort
        x, damn it, breadwinner ... In Central Asia, stick a dry branch into the ground, stick fields and grow an apricot or something else ..

        Ravshan will grow wassat
    2. chukapabra
      chukapabra April 18 2012 15: 22 New
      -1
      Quote: synchrophasatron
      it is necessary to accept Tajikistan as part of Russia, until they are completely dead from hunger

      And Tajiks to work in Europe, let the grandmother send to Russia. Moreover, the Ravshans will quickly end them
  • Art111
    Art111 April 18 2012 13: 13 New
    +5
    It’s a pity for the children, but when did it happen, is such a thing possible in Soviet times !? Damn, 30 percent do not live up to 5 years !!! sorry but this is an ass !!!
  • Nechai
    Nechai April 18 2012 15: 14 New
    +3
    Quote: esaul
    And Karimov jumps with his freaks.

    Teska, you are absolutely right. Indeed, slander is especially in what, in order to achieve one’s former "greatness" in centuries, they are essentially ready to exterminate people, that of neighbors, that of their own. Deliberately biting them with each other. They suggest the same algorithm of actions with respect to Russia and the USA, flawed. The eternity of omnipotence and immortality is not provided by anyone.
    Quote: Dust
    Therefore, apart from hatred and anger, ordinary Uzbeks have nothing against Kazakhs ...

    Back in Soviet times, the stranger to visit areas of the mixed Kazakh-Uzbek population. Struck by mutual hatred. You begin to understand, and the overwhelming and predominant number of "reasons" - from the agency "OBS". When he began to push both of them, brothers, your authorities deliberately quarreled and bleed you, met with an absolute misunderstanding. At best, incredulous surprise ....
    1. aksakal
      aksakal April 18 2012 16: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: Nechai
      Back in Soviet times, the stranger to visit areas of the mixed Kazakh-Uzbek population. Struck by mutual hatred. You begin to understand, and the overwhelming and predominant number of "reasons" - from the agency "OBS". When he began to push both of them, brothers, your authorities deliberately quarreled and bleed you, met with an absolute misunderstanding. At best, incredulous surprise ....
      - Yes, we never especially were friends and are not going to be friends. They are farmers, we are pastoralists. And they took away Tashkent for leadership in the region. In the USSR, Tashkent was clearly the leader, the unofficial capital of Central Asia, all the allied money for the development of the region was directed there, and from there, by the grace of the Uzbek authorities, Kazakhstan could have passed, but could not have passed. With the collapse of the USSR, life put everything in its place, who really stands for something, and not how it was seen from the Kremlin.
      But now we need to live peacefully, and we should resolve economic issues wisely, and all agreements reached on the basis of observing all interests can simply be strictly observed. And we will be happy.
      Russians just need to trap young Tajiks at the trained (post-school) age under pain of criminal prosecution, train at their universities and return to their native land laughing And then facilitate their entry into the local elite. In short, to form a good competent, Russian-speaking elite loyal to Russia in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Upon reaching a critical number of such literate "elites" in these countries, they will understand that it is better to ask Russia for a fishing rod and learn how to use these fishing rods from it than to constantly beg for her fish, causing irritation among Russians. Ivan’s position is clear - “you don’t need someone else, but I won’t give my own” smile . But the fish is its own, who will like it when they literally tear it out of their mouth, taking advantage of Russia's geopolitical difficulties? And permanently.
      1. Dust
        Dust April 18 2012 17: 19 New
        -1
        Did money go to Tashkent from Kazakhstan? Well, you annealed!
        In Soviet times, Kunaev was still a relative of Brezhnev, so there could be no such talk ...
        Another thing is that Kazakhstan never organizationally entered Central Asia - even on all maps they always wrote "Kazakhstan and Central Asia" ...
        Uzbekistan is in any case in Central Asia a heavyweight with its nearly thirty million people ...
        1. aksakal
          aksakal April 18 2012 18: 12 New
          +2
          Quote: Dust
          Did money go to Tashkent from Kazakhstan? Well, you annealed!
          - Well, how do you explain the increased attention to Tashkent and the pushing into the corner of Kazakhstan?
          The population of Uzbekistan is a heavyweight. But this does not eliminate the need to develop a housekeeper. An authoritarian political regime combines perfectly with a competent approach with liberalism in the economy - it has been tested in many states, including and in China. The economy needs to be freed. You have some kind of crap there, even with incomprehensible currencies - there is one course in the exchangers, one on the other, what are the rules of the game - he’ll break a leg, some tricked-in import-export rules, I almost did that in states with a free economy is not a crime - ended up in a fierce Uzbek prison. For some reason, you can’t deal with soft drinks, in general, some misunderstandings. All this does not have the best effect on the economy, although there is potential.
          1. Dust
            Dust April 18 2012 18: 19 New
            -2
            It seems so to you - Kazakhstan is too large geographically ...
            In Soviet times, in general, Kazakhstan was not particularly considered a separate republic - there are too big differences between the East and the West, the North and the South ...
            In order to understand the situation in Uzbekistan one needs to live here - the system is very clear, the mechanism works like a clock, we will omit the details ...
            1. aksakal
              aksakal April 18 2012 22: 40 New
              0
              Quote: Dust
              In order to understand the situation in Uzbekistan one needs to live here - the system is very clear, the mechanism works like a clock, we will omit the details ...
              - it is clear that one must live in order to understand. It is clear that you need to live in a neighborhood called Mahalla, and the mahalla should know everything about you, up to when and with what girl you were last ... Maybe the system is clear like a clock, just somehow not for me. That is why investors can not understand such a clear mechanism as a clock, and do not break into you. But the economy must be open, chaos is growing in closed systems (the law of entropy growth).
              Therefore, the Uzbeks go anywhere where they pay at least some money. I have a young Uzbek nanny, for many years now, I’ve become something like a relative, even at weddings and some celebrations we already go as one family, here’s something she doesn’t break into this very clear system like a clock, something she I do not like. Maybe it’s not so clear?
              1. Dust
                Dust April 19 2012 07: 50 New
                0
                But this mahalla really does not know anything, time has long been wrong ...
                There are investors, and not so few - you just need to know who solves the issues ...
                1. FROST
                  FROST April 19 2012 19: 29 New
                  0
                  In order to understand the situation in Uzbekistan one needs to live here - the system is very clear, the mechanism works like a clock, we will omit the details ...


                  What hours?)) Do you live on Mars chtoli? Generally speaking, it is better to keep silent about the banking sector. No conversion.

                  There are investors, and not so few - you just need to know who solves the issues ...


                  Funny sounds smile
  • denisey
    denisey April 18 2012 16: 18 New
    +1
    Gentlemen, before making plans to help our Central Asian neighbors, they and we need to understand whether they need our help. Communicating with Russian refugees from one republic of Central Asia, I heard a rather unpleasant story about how they were “escorted” to Russia, and I will not be surprised that these comrades (who shone with their hospitality) now work in Russia and keep their mouths shut about past times. I believe that there is no need to harbor illusions about the fraternal people from Central Asia, a lot has changed over the years outside the USSR. Russia provides assistance by providing jobs for migrant workers who themselves decided to come to work in Russia, because their choice is the same as leaving the USSR and the desire of the indigenous people of the Central Asian republics to live in their homeland without Russians.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal April 18 2012 18: 15 New
      0
      Quote: denisey
      Communicating with Russian refugees from one republic of Central Asia, I heard a rather unpleasant story about how they were “escorted” to Russia, and I will not be surprised that these comrades (who shone with their hospitality) now work in Russia and keep their mouths shut about past times. I believe that there is no need to harbor illusions about the fraternal people from Central Asia, a lot has changed over the years outside the USSR.
      - offer to harbor resentment and start enmity? Are there many of them anyway? Nosevera all the Baltic mongrel, in the west of Poland, in the south-west of Georgia, is there enough for complete happiness here? I did not quite understand your proposal.
      1. denisey
        denisey April 18 2012 21: 01 New
        0
        No, I'm talking about the fact that our friends are the army and navy. There is no need to hold grudges, it is necessary to realize that today they are friends and tomorrow daddy apart or you my friend say that our friends from Central Asia will rush to help us in case of trouble, I doubt it. We must soberly assess the situation and take into account the incidents in Germany and France. And here there can be no offense only a sober understanding that these people who came to us with their mentality will not even listen to you when that critical mass of the year arises, conversations will be useless. And sooner or later it will arise, which events in different cities of our homeland show! Migrant workers every year bolder, more and more crimes with their participation, the severity of crimes increases. It's time to admit it!
        1. denisey
          denisey April 18 2012 21: 53 New
          0
          And THIS FOR TODAY: On the night of April 18, in the Moscow district of Yuzhno Tushino, near the Skhodnenskaya metro station, there was a mass brawl between local residents and people from the Caucasus, a law enforcement source in the capital said. Economic security

          As a result of the clash, four young Muscovites were stabbed !!!
        2. aksakal
          aksakal April 18 2012 22: 25 New
          -1
          Quote: denisey
          . It is necessary to soberly assess the situation, and take into account the incidents that occurred in Germany and France.
          - There can be no such incidents in Russia. There is no such "multiculturalism." And even the mentality of the Tajiks is closer to the Russians than the Chinese and even ... Afghans. But for now. The mentality with generations is changing. You can lose time. And the Tajiks who grew up in Russia, in the second generation are already Russian people. When the Euroset in Kazakhstan was wounded, there was one. I was surprised to learn that Tajik. And for all the tricks - Russian. As an actor Siyatvinda in the cinema - well, a Russian man and a Russian man, only dark-skinned. This does not happen in the West closely. Algerians remain Algerians, the French remain French, they do not mix in any way. remain strangers and tolerate each other. But patience is worse than that - there are disruptions. In Russia, this certainly will not happen if the Russians themselves do not change. And judging by such posts, which are becoming more and more, the situation is changing not for the better, not of the Utajiks and of the Uk, it is changing in the Russians. Under whose cultural influence, to whom it is beneficial - a separate issue.
          And finally - just to remind you once again - neither Tajiks, nor Uzbeks, and none of those whom you write with badly hidden dislike here, if you killed Russians, then very long ago, in the wild, and not by millions. But as for the representatives of those people whom you refer to as "civilized" peoples, they noted themselves in the extermination of Russians, and more recently, they noted this business with special diligence, cold calculation, meticulous pedantry and absolutely indifferent cruelty. And you about them as civilized nations, and even aspirated laughing Stockholm syndrome?


          Quote: denisey
          Migrant workers every year bolder, more and more crimes with their participation, the severity of crimes increases. It's time to admit it!
          - the media did not notice this. And the second - I made a proposal on how to send migrant workers home. Read the posts above. Give them a fishing rod (or take a fishing rod) and teach them how to fish. Do you offer just kicks out? But it’s nothing that during the years of Basmachism it was the Russians who pushed into Tajikistan, in fact, because of what this Basmachism movement appeared. They got it, nobody asked, but they got it themselves, defeated the Basmachis, forcibly "civilized" and now there? This is like catching a puppy, forcibly dragging it into a house, feeding it, making a toy, and when you have grown up, you eat a lot, then out of the house? Uh, no brother, already bring your cross, a puppy that has grown up and walks hungry under the windows, and breaks in the door, because you are not trained to get your own food, and you are to blame for this. And you are ready to grab the gun on the wall. Don’t put a little gun, go and teach the dog to feed, and then breathe a sigh of relief. Sorry, cruel, but it's true, forcing such things to say.
      2. denisey
        denisey April 18 2012 21: 51 New
        0
        And THIS FOR TODAY: On the night of April 18, in the Moscow district of Yuzhno Tushino, near the Skhodnenskaya metro station, there was a mass brawl between local residents and people from the Caucasus, a law enforcement source in the capital said.
        As a result of the clash, four young Muscovites were stabbed. The police officers who arrived at the scene of the incident could not detain anyone "in hot pursuit". ITAR-TASS
  • bazilio
    bazilio April 18 2012 20: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    You read, well, we got all these bai. Return illegal immigrants, in a week all these “presidents” in Moscow will be ready to lick their shoes.!

    Yes, very "smart, constructive, mature." And after that, let's also deport Ukrainian prostitutes to Ukraine so that they would lick their boots, and then iron their hats so that they would not recall the Soviet occupation, and then we will send narrow-eyed from Siberia and the Far East to China, etc. .. That, dear Alexander, the great-power chauvinism played?

    It’s interesting, why is Tajikistan so poor — they shut off gas, they don’t allow trains, and Uzbekistan are villains? And the fact that Tajikistan shuts off water, and so the water level on Charvak fell by at least 10 meters, while the respected Shohmansur mentioned that water in Central Asia is life. This is normal? And the fact that Tajikistan smokes with its aluminum plant throughout the Surkhandarya region, children suffer from serious diseases (congenital and not only), they are born with pathologies, this is also normal. Tajik children are poor, but Uzbek ones are not children?
  • The gentleman
    The gentleman April 19 2012 11: 41 New
    +1
    I would like to ask that the representatives of Kazakhstan do not touch the relations between Uzbeks and Kazakhs, because you yourself know why you do not love us and did not love us ...
    1. jamalena
      jamalena April 20 2012 00: 15 New
      +2
      For what we "love kz", this is clear to me. And why do they so "love" us? Recognized as their hero (i.e. taken away) General S. Rakhimov, cat. turned out to be a representative of another (according to rumors of the Tatar) nation, the trade in Uzbek slaves - here medieval Rome will envy. But in the years of the Second World War they fought shoulder to shoulder with a common and powerful enemy. Either whole nations and generations are degrading under the pressure of the scum, or the leaders have a cult of personality and all this pours on top, specially pitting the latter for these purposes, I do not know. But it cannot go on like that. But when we understand what we have done, I'm afraid it will be too late. We need to fight the common enemy - shit-racers, these insatiable, gluttonous, treacherous villains, and not to take handouts from them that will return to them if not a hundredfold, then tenfold at least. Just what went wrong, the leaders will blame. They have a patron uncle Lukash. And then we will have to pay for freedom (for real), and with blood. And it will flood the river, the big river!
      1. Eugene
        Eugene April 20 2012 02: 36 New
        0
        How bloodthirsty you are, lady.
      2. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu April 27 2013 15: 06 New
        0
        Quote: jamalena
        Recognized as their hero (i.e. taken away) General S. Rakhimov, cat. turned out to be a representative of another (according to rumors of the Tatar) nation


        Nobody took Sabyr Rakhimov from anyone. He is Kazakh and born Kazakh. Just at the time he was recorded as an Uzbek. This is confirmed by his wife. She sent a request to the archive of the Baku United Military School. The answer came, where it is clearly written in black and white that when entering the nationality column, it is written down by KAZAKH ..
        But from Wikipedia:
        Sabir's nationality is a subject of controversy. According to official documents, Sabir Rakhimov is an ethnic Uzbek born in Tashkent [1] [2]. According to the wife of General Kuralay Natullaeva (see the note in the “Family” section) and the son of Roman Rakhimov, the uncle of the mother-general of Tulegen and Azismat Karimov, who lived in Tashkent, the cousin of General Lutfi Ospankulova, Sabir Rakhimov was an ethnic Kazakh, while Uzbek recorded it by mistake ..

        Uzbeks can be understood.. Their national hero, whose name was called the metro station, the district of Tashkent city, the academic lyceum at the National University and schools in Tashkent, turned out to be ... oh, horror - KAZAKHOM
        Such are the twists and turns of history ...
  • Turkoman
    Turkoman April 19 2012 21: 46 New
    0
    I consider the most sensible, efficient and talented sarts. And it’s very sad that the Turks of Central Asia cannot get along (Kazakhs are Uzbeks, Uzbeks are Kyrgyz, Turkmen are Kazakhs)
  • General_Nogay
    General_Nogay April 20 2012 16: 19 New
    0
    The richest president in the world is the president of Tajikistan! And the people are starving!