Ekranoplans in the service of Russia - to be or not to be

126
Recently it became known that the Border Guard Service under the FSB will begin creating an ekranoplan production center in Petrozavodsk. The center will be created from scratch at the former Avangard plant, which will provide all possible assistance in the production and training of engineers. FSB plans to conduct year-round testing of new types of WIG. Now in Petrozavodsk, an Orion-20 ekranoplan is being completed. Most likely, it will become the first prototype on which engines, navigation and piloting equipment, control systems and innovative technologies will be tested.

Ekranoplans in the service of Russia - to be or not to be


The ekranoplans are called dynamic-type air-cushion vessels, low-flying over the surface and having a high speed. If we compare them with airplanes, then with the same characteristics of speed and mass, the winged airplanes are much smaller. The Soviet Union in the creation and production of ekranoplans was the undisputed world leader. Until today, the production of ekranoplans in Russia was more private, and there was no talk of mass production for various military units. From the state program of armaments before 2020, it is known that the creation of ekranoplans for law enforcement agencies is not provided. Now, quite often on the pages of newspapers and magazines flashed articles about the possibility of the revival of the production of WIG in Russia. For the first time, the prospects of airplanes in Russia were discussed in connection with the support of the development of innovative technologies by the leadership of the Russian Federation. The development of ekranoplanes abroad - in the United States, Germany, South Korea, China and Iran - again raised in Russian society the question of the revival of ekranoplanes. Today, thanks to some domestic enterprises, Russia may not be left behind in the development of ekranoplanostroeniya. Strongly help in this situation can export ekranoplans abroad. It is the supply of modern ekranoplans to foreign customers that will revive the Russian market, production technologies will rise to a new level. Therefore, it is very possible that Russia will become one of the leaders in the construction of ekranoplanes.



Today, South Korea is moving at a rapid pace to create ekranoplans for the civilian population - about forty local ekranoplanes, built under license from Germany, are currently being tested. And for Russia, entry into the foreign market of ekranoplans is still closed. 5 years ago, Russia was trying to promote the project "50-ton wig" for foreign exports, but nothing came of this attempt. Now only the Nizhny Novgorod Central Design Bureau for the SEC can become the center of the revival of ekranoplans - they have retained both the specialists, the acquired experience and many production capacities.

Conditional groups of ekranoplans:
- group №3. Wreck weight no more than 10 000 kilogram, without the possibility of going to sea. Operation - calm waters up to two points. The ekranoplans of the group №3 are first of all walking and excursion ekranoplanes;
- group №2. The mass of the wig to 60 000 kilogram, with the possibility of operating on the sea. The most sought-after group in both the civil and military markets. TsKB of SEC is probably the only enterprise, the projects of the WV group No. XXUMX of which are approved for use. These projects may be quickly modified, quickly create and begin trial tests of the latest ekranoplans;
Existing projects such as Orion or Aquaglide, from other companies belonging to this group, have not yet passed the main tests.
- group №1. Ekranoplans weighing more than 60 000 kilograms, with the possibility of regular operation in marine spaces. Ekranoplans of this group meet the requirements for use in the Navy.

Vivid examples of the group №1 - Wing "Eaglet", "Lun" and "KM". The main customer of ekranoplans of group №1 should be the military department of the Russian Federation. Such ekranoplans can become a Russian joker in the fight against modern patrol ships of the type “littorial combat ship”, which are provided with speeds up to 50 nodes and can carry a couple of dozen CDs. The rest of the power units of the Russian Federation may need to use WD in the North or the Far East to perform various tasks on the high seas.



Our businessmen are ready to acquire river ground-effect vehicles with the ability to operate machines of at least 3 points — this is about the 120-ti centimeter wave. But today, the existing ekranoplans will not be able to pass instrument tests, and therefore it will not be possible to exploit them in Russian rivers any time soon. The ekranoplan market is currently chaotic. In order to regulate the submitted courts, it is necessary, like in Soviet times, to create commissions and expert examinations in areas. This will help the customer to objectively select the vessel, and not to use advertising positions. The fact is that a situation arises in which the one who has advertised his vessel the most will receive money from the state.

The possibility of building a center for the creation of ekranoplans for the needs of the FSB, without a design office, a modern production base, and most importantly specialized specialists, will require huge financial investments. It would be more profitable to announce a tender for the required vessel and allow the experimental commission to conduct a full test cycle. Another view is the creation of jobs, the use of Lake Onego water area as a base for testing and full support of the project from the leaders of the region.

The country's leadership voiced support for the development of domestic ekranoplanostroeniya. Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin stated a couple of months ago that today there is every reason to consider this area as promising - there are production facilities ready for the start of the production of ekranoplans, and the military department will soon determine the areas of application of ekranoplans to perform tasks for the defense of the state. Now small batches of ekranoplans come mainly to the border units of some departments, but we hope to soon find an area of ​​their optimal use. Russia is a country with large sea, river and lake areas, therefore the use of this class of technology is a prospect for the near future.

Information sources:
http://expert.ru/2012/01/30/pripodnyavshis-nad-volnoj/
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/5633/
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrxyqwBkBAI


Caspian Sea (USSR) monster 1989 year

The documentary film of the end of 80-x, in contrast to the modern there are a lot of chronicles and very interesting shots.

126 comments
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  1. +20
    April 17 2012 07: 36
    Do not use the direction where you are a leader, at least stupid! Maybe criminal.
    1. +4
      April 17 2012 08: 10
      all the same, it's time to decide on the combat use, landing, strike, anti-submarine ...
      1. +1
        April 17 2012 09: 43
        Pleasure and cargo.
    2. Dimitrxnumx
      +9
      April 17 2012 08: 13
      In general, ekranoplanes are quite serious and formidable equipment, capable of solving the assigned tasks with lightning speed. Probably it was nevertheless necessary to revive the construction of these ekranoplanes in the early 2000s. Make a deep modernization and build several prototypes to work them out. Then the Mistrals wouldn’t be needed anymore, and in the war with Georgia, the transfer of equipment would not have taken so much time; in addition, these ekranoplans could be sold for export and received very good money. Well, why is everything done through one place?
      1. +3
        April 17 2012 08: 38
        Much is already better to do from scratch than to restore the old. A lot of water has flowed. Aviation and shipbuilding technologies have stepped far forward, with their use, on the basis of existing workflow, you can create devices with unprecedented characteristics in the countryside. What a scope for thought, including military! Only a will is needed!
      2. +1
        April 17 2012 10: 16
        For whom is she formidable? Do not make me laugh.
        What tasks can she solve with lightning speed.
      3. +1
        April 17 2012 15: 28
        If ekranoplanes were used to rescue the sailors during the accident of the Komsomolets submarine, everyone would sleep. This is another way of using them.
        1. +1
          April 17 2012 15: 40
          Seaplanes not?
          At the same moon 500 maximum speed we take 400 cruising at a range of 2000 km.
          Be200ES cruising 600 range of 3100km
    3. +2
      April 17 2012 08: 30
      Unfortunately, some time ago we strongly wanted democracy and liberalism. Now we are reaping the fruits of our own stupidity. It will take some time to recover, only cats will be born quickly :)
      1. 755962
        +2
        April 17 2012 10: 45
        Recently, the story with ekranoplanes has received a completely unexpected turn. Having analyzed the prospects of this type of technology and came to the conclusion that there is a significant, to put it mildly, lagging behind of works (due to the actual lack thereof) in the field of ekranoplanostroeniya, the US Congress created a special commission to develop an action plan to eliminate the Russian breakthrough. Members of the commission proposed to seek help ... from the Russians themselves and went directly to the Central Design Bureau through the SEC. The latter’s leadership informed Moscow and received permission from the Goskomoboronprom and the Ministry of Defense to conduct negotiations with the Americans under the patronage of the Commission for Export Control of Arms, Military Equipment and Technologies of the Russian Ministry of Defense. And in order not to draw too much attention to the subject of negotiations, the inquisitive Yankees suggested using the services of an American company under the neutral name Russian-American Science (RAS), and with its mediation a delegation of overseas specialists had the opportunity to visit the Central Design Bureau for the SEC, meet with ekranoplan designers, find out if possible, details of interest. Then, the Russian side kindly agreed to arrange a visit by the American researchers to the base in Kaspiysk, where they were able without any restrictions to take detailed photographs and videotapes of the Orlyonok prepared for the flight specially for this visit.

        Who was part of the American landing? The head of the delegation is Colonel Francis Francis, who leads the program for creating a promising tactical fighter. Under his leadership were prominent specialists from research centers, including NASA, as well as representatives of aircraft manufacturing companies in America. Among them, the most famous person was Bert Rutan, who designed a plane of an unconventional aerodynamic design Voyager, on which his brother made a non-stop round-the-world flight several years ago. In addition, the delegation, according to representatives of the Russian competent authorities present at the show, included people who, for years of duty, had been collecting information about Soviet ekranoplanes in every possible way and for the first time unexpectedly got the opportunity to see with their own eyes - and even touch - the object of their close attention.

        As a result of these visits, which cost the American taxpayers only $ 200 thousand, our new friends will be able to save several billion and significantly, by 5-6 years, reduce the time needed to develop their own ekranoplan designs. US representatives raise the question of organizing joint activities to eliminate their backlog in this area. The ultimate goal is to create an airborne ekranoplan with a take-off weight of up to 5000 tons for the American rapid reaction forces. The entire program may require $ 15 billion. How much of this amount can be invested in Russian science and industry - and whether it will be invested at all - is still unclear With such an organization of negotiations, when the received $ 200 does not cover the costs of the Central Design Bureau and the pilot plant in the amount of 300 million rubles to bring Orlenka to flight condition, there is no need to count on mutually beneficial cooperation
        1. 0
          April 17 2012 21: 58
          Our mother will give my mother’s money to a brothel for money.
        2. mind1954
          0
          April 18 2012 02: 08
          And someone on this site all at Ivashov rushed for sacrilege ?? !!
          How dare he make out the fifth column in the Kremlin!
          And Putin, when resuming production of "Ruslan", demanded it
          to do together with "Boeing"!

          Alekseev at the time finished off by the fact that they refused to give him from the MAP
          the necessary materials (stainless steel, probably). Now, no barriers
          no.
          1. +1
            April 18 2012 09: 08
            Boeing NEEDS learning how to organize production and design. SSJ by the way built with their participation.
            1. 0
              April 20 2012 15: 43
              Quote: leon-iv
              SSJ by the way built with their participation

              And the Tu-334, a practically ready, certified device for the development of which a lot of money has been ditched, is criminally fucked up. What the hell was it to throw him for dubious prospects?
        3. +1
          April 24 2012 21: 18
          Quote: 755962
          Then, the Russian side kindly agreed to arrange a visit by the American researchers to the base in Kaspiysk, where they were able without any restrictions to take detailed photographs and videotapes of the Orlyonok prepared for the flight specially for this visit.

          I read and shakes myself, well, mine, as much as you can, against this background Saakashvili and Yushchenko are more honest, they are specific enemies, and what is this ..... words, is there no betrayal or what?
    4. 0
      April 17 2012 12: 12
      If you talk like that, our government is nothing but criminals. That's just the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation is completely controlled by the Kremlin.
      1. Neighbor
        +1
        April 17 2012 15: 36
        Quote: Gogh
        What is it? Build from scratch every time

        It means - to create on the basis of the old development - a completely new model. Using the latest technology and equipment. Naturally - it will be practically from scratch. New materials, engines, components and assemblies - not to mention weapons.
        The thing is undoubtedly necessary. As far as I know, in the USSR it was even planned to place anti-ship missiles on them. In - in the photo below - 6 rockets on the roof - combined with great speed and mobility - a very formidable weapon. For the transfer of equipment, landing - that’s it!
        Quote: Civil
        assault, anti-submarine

        drinks
    5. YARY
      +1
      April 17 2012 18: 51
      BATTLE SCREEN-BE !!! angry fool
      If the rulers are not able to understand with their bureaucratic little mind the whole strength and all the advantages of this system, there is only one way to call them to create this segment of DEFENSE. Everytime as soon as possible in the media and on the Internet to ask and ask them a question-"What kind of transport is capable of carrying 500 tons at a speed of 500 km / h?"
      While they either do not admit to betrayal, or begin construction!
      1. Jaguar
        0
        April 17 2012 22: 39
        Quote: Ardent
        "What kind of transport is capable of carrying 500 tons at a speed of 500 km / h?"
        Are ekranoplanes capable of? Empty mass KM 240,000 kg, maximum take-off mass: 544,000 kg. And where are the wearable 500 tons?
    6. freedom
      +1
      April 17 2012 19: 19
      Actually, as I recall:
      Ekranoplan "Lun" - Putin gave the go-ahead. "Caspian monsters" spread their wings
      01: 30 09.06.2002


      Vladimir Putin’s recent trip to the Caspian turned into an unprecedented rearmament of the hitherto modest formation of the Navy, which was always on the periphery of Moscow’s attention. The forthcoming Caspian Flotilla drills announced by the president forced the Navy Commander-in-Chief to overturn annual expenses, concentrating lean flows of financial infusions on the southern water border of Russia. If before the main arena of demonstrating the remaining power of the fleet was the waters of the Barents Sea, in the extreme case of the Pacific Ocean, today the subject of the primary concern of the Bolshoi Kozlovsky Lane (the main headquarters of the Navy is located there) is the distant Caspian. The efforts invested in it promise both extraordinary ranks, and promotions, and, most importantly, the good location of the Kremlin.
      According to a source in the main command of the Navy, the admirals were tasked with "not just demonstrating a military presence in the region, but showing the overwhelming potential of the Russian Navy in the Caspian Sea in comparison with the navies of other countries."
      To solve this problem, extraordinary solutions are needed. And again, from the fleet’s storage tanks, a rocket winged aircraft with cruise missiles on board is removed.
      We are talking about the Lun rocket ekranoplan. Chief of the General Staff Anatoly Kvashnin signed a directive to return this unique sea and air ship to service. For ten years, it stood on mothballing, since in the early nineties the use of such a formidable weapon in the Caspian was recognized as both expensive and redundant, given the possible threats in the region.
      The threats, as it turned out, had grown during this time. So much so that this powerful aircraft-ship, nicknamed the "Caspian Monster" by the foreign press, was also in demand.

      http://www.centrasia.ru/newsA.php?st=1023571800
    7. +2
      April 17 2012 19: 53
      Quote: Dmitriy69
      at least stupid! Maybe criminal.


      In 1987, the Lun landed on the water, the first ship of a series of combat missile-carrying ekranoplanes weighing 400 tons. The chief designer was V. Kirillovykh. The ship was armed with three pairs of 3M80 or 80M Mosquito cruise missiles (NATO designation SS-N-22 Sunburn). The second "Lun" was also laid down as a missile carrier, but the conversion that had begun made its own adjustments, and it was planned to complete it as a rescue ship. At the present time, the Marine Rocket Ekranoplan pr.903 ,, LUN ', still stands in the city of Kaspiyka and rusts. Experienced and last flight, took place in the summer of 1989 with experienced live firing in flight and afloat. Anymore, it is unlikely to take off again. Odds = 0.
      Of the three Marine Landing Wagons pr.904,, EAGLES ,, 1) were cut into metal. 2) Crashed in 1991, purely through the fault of the commander. 3) Fortunately, he remained alive and on the initiative of the Mayor of Moscow, Yu. Luzhkov Yu. M., MDE, along the Volga, along rivers and canals, were dragged to Moscow, to the Khimki reservoir (metro Skhodnenskaya), to the Navy Museum, and he found his last refuge there. Currently, he proudly stands there, next to the submarine and a hovercraft patrol boat.
    8. Fidain
      -1
      April 17 2012 20: 55
      Polnostyu soglasen, i uchitovoya to chto 21 veke skorost i malazametnos eto oche i ochen vazhno to ekranoplana s naveshimi razrabotkami Radari, kompazitnie matreyali, bole sovershenie omearnovémovémovémovémovémovémovémovénovémov ponyatno.No podvodnie lodki i ekranoplani mogli bi postavit na mesto Amerikancov.
  2. Goga
    +6
    April 17 2012 07: 41
    What is it? Every time "create from scratch" - What machines were built in Nizhny! I saw the "Lun" over the Caspian Sea - it is terrifying! And then again to throw everything away and out of nothing in Petrozavodsk ... And in Nizhny what? Burn everything with a blue flame, figs with them with specialists - will we teach new ones abroad?
    So it won’t work. fool
    1. 0
      April 17 2012 08: 02
      Why out of nothing? belay Among other things, we have more than one shipyard. winked
      It’s just that in the PTZ and in Nizhny there will be different models to assemble, that's all wink
      1. 0
        April 17 2012 09: 27
        In Petrozavodsk, "Ivolga" will be made for border guards, and in Nizhny, "Orion"
  3. patriot2
    +2
    April 17 2012 08: 11
    Article still +
    Wing needs everyone: border guards, the army, in the civilian world! That's just why there are no specialists, and those who created ekranoplans in the Soviet years? During the Second World War, even political prisoners created sharashki, which pulled our aviation and tank building forward. Invite a Soviet specialist in this area as a consultant - weak? Nadot go to America, and there in general this topic is at the stage of experiments, why?
    They love to ruin at the root what they have done themselves - give them a "Big Mac".
    Apparently for this reason, in this, and in other topics, we are lagging behind!
  4. +6
    April 17 2012 08: 37
    Border guards should be armed with "Lun", especially in the Far East, poachers and smugglers will disappear in a moment, it will not hurt to go to the Black Sea either ...

    1. +8
      April 17 2012 09: 27
      Quote: PSih2097
      Border guards should be armed with "Lun", especially in the Far East, poachers and smugglers will disappear in a moment,

      It's like a cannon on sparrows angry
      1. 0
        April 17 2012 09: 31
        Dmitriy69,
        Sorry, did not see, the page was updated for a long time, plus drinks
    2. +5
      April 17 2012 09: 29
      No, against poachers and smugglers, this is "from a cannon to the sparrows."
      The border guards need super-fast boats with large-caliber machine guns and automatic cannons. By the way, hydrofoil boats are also Alekseev's "brainchild" wink
    3. +3
      April 17 2012 09: 42
      But what for do they need it, border guards with speed boats with 76 mm push and a couple of machine guns no longer need normal aviation
    4. Num lock U.A.
      0
      April 17 2012 12: 12
      yeah and give them a couple of strategists with MIG-31 laughing
  5. +2
    April 17 2012 08: 47
    it seems to me that ekranoplanes would be appropriate for rescue operations at sea, with its speed you can jump many times faster to a ship in distress! and certainly there are many other possibilities for its application. And it is also necessary to touch on amphibian aircraft in such a topic, the sea is huge and there is no special aviation!
    1. 0
      April 24 2012 21: 37
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      it seems to me that ekranoplanes would be appropriate for rescue operations at sea, with its speed you can jump many times faster to a ship in distress! and certainly there are many other possibilities for its application. And it is also necessary to touch on amphibian aircraft in such a topic, the sea is huge and there is no special aviation!
      Not only, the element of ekranoplanes is the operational control of coastal waters within 1000 km or more. off the coast than a deadly splinter for aircraft carriers.
  6. Sarus
    +6
    April 17 2012 08: 59
    Here pride takes me for the USSR engineering school ..
    Such wonderful things they did ... Previously, seeing the approach to learning was different ..
    Motivation patriotism and the spirit of competition ...
    And now ... If only for a few days to get a diploma and then to trade Chinese toilets ...
    The sad thing is that there is no way out ... Although sometimes it is easier to destroy and rebuild than to repair the old system ... But this should not be applied to the parameters and methods of education
    PS
    I think and will always consider the Soviet school of education the best in the world ..
    1. +7
      April 17 2012 09: 41
      "Father" of ekranoplanes and hydrofoils - Rostislav Evgenievich Alekseev
      1. Jaguar
        +1
        April 17 2012 12: 15
        Hydrofoil ships appeared long before Alekseev began to deal with them.
        1. +1
          April 17 2012 13: 02
          I missed the word "Soviet". Thanks for correcting smile
        2. Jaguar
          +1
          April 17 2012 17: 15
          He is the father of one with three types of hydrofoils.
          .
          “While Alekseev experimented with his first ships, the West was dominated by V-shaped, water-crossing hydrofoils. The consoles of such wings protruded from the water during cruising. As the speed of the vessel increased, the lift of the wings increased, but the angle of attack With an increase in lift, the vessel, along with the wings, was lifted out of the water, while the area of ​​the submerged part of the wing decreased, and as a result, the lift was equalized with the weight of the vessel. In addition, a scheme with partially submerged wings, as a rule, has a large draft.

          Not knowing about foreign developments, Rostislav Alekseev came up with his own design, also self-stabilizing. As you know, the lifting force occurs due to the pressure difference on the lower and upper surfaces of the wing - due to different flow rates. A rarefaction is created on the upper surface of the wing, while pressure is increased on the lower surface. However, as the depth decreases, the pressure on the upper surface increases, since in the boundary zone there is a slowdown of the fluid particles, as a result, the lifting force decreases and the vessel stabilizes. The scheme proposed by Alekseev turned out to be optimal for river transport - its vessels had a higher hydrodynamic quality compared to foreign counterparts and less draft, which was a big advantage when moving along rivers.

          There is also a third scheme - with fully submerged hydrofoils, which is used mainly on ships. Sea roughness practically does not affect their movement. However, such a scheme is not self-stabilizing, and in order to balance the weight of the ship and the lift force at different speeds, it is necessary to change the angle of attack of the wing. It is because of the complexity of automating this process that ships with fully submerged hydrofoils ceased to be exotic only after the appearance of effective automatic control systems "
        3. +1
          April 20 2012 15: 45
          I think that the main thing in this matter is not even to give birth, but to raise. And the brainchild of Alekseev does not need advertising.
  7. -8
    April 17 2012 09: 41
    Ekranoplan is a place only in the civilian sector.
    In the military sphere, they have no use so far. And in the near future will not be.
    1. 0
      April 17 2012 09: 56
      Well, no, how much? The same border guards, it’s the same. You can’t drive everywhere by truck, SVP will consume a lot of fuel, so ekranoplan is a normal solution wink
      1. 0
        April 17 2012 10: 01
        And he loses the meaning to ships in the autonomy of aviation in mobility to helicopters in universality.
        For example, the same FSB patrol ships in the case of a threatened period are very significantly rearmament since there is a reserve for displacement. And the ekranoplanes?
        1. 0
          April 17 2012 10: 15
          Do you suspect a cut? lol
          I believe that here its universality played a role - both by land and by water and by air, even if it loses to each separately, but, for example, the ship does not sail by land wink
          As for weapons, not yet in the know. lol
          So far, just like a transport for drugs.
          1. 0
            April 17 2012 10: 28
            by land only along the steppe plain you can’t drive him up a mountain on a heel and you will not drop a group.
            I do not suspect a cut I understand that they had no place in that battlefield and is not yet in sight. The most important Schaub like Lun was no longer built.
            1. 0
              April 17 2012 10: 37
              AND! That's what you mean! No, no "Lun" will do what less lol
              1. -2
                April 17 2012 10: 51
                Yes, I know about these crafts.
                Let them do the most important thing so that monsters are not built.
            2. -1
              April 17 2012 10: 55
              Well is that
              Quote: leon-iv
              they had no place in that battlefield

              I do not agree with you.
              Here the fact is that the same "Lune" and "Eaglet" were very few. If there was a mass, the situation would have changed radically.
              1. +1
                April 17 2012 11: 03
                than?
                Aviation is faster.
                NK is survivable.
                How, for example, to the Lunars to fight off an air raid?
                1. +3
                  April 17 2012 11: 12
                  Ah, what are you talking about .... I am not suggesting that all tasks should be solved by "Moons" alone, yet "Lun" is a high-speed platform for launching anti-ship missiles.
                  As for the aviation raid, how can the same "strategists" fight it off? Especially considering that their take-off will not go unnoticed and they will be conducted from the airfield itself.
                  And in the end, there is also the landing "Eaglet". wink
                  PS: For those who are minus, at least get angry wink
                  1. -1
                    April 17 2012 11: 28
                    Ah, what are you talking about .... I am not suggesting that all tasks should be solved by "Moons" alone, yet "Lun" is a high-speed platform for launching anti-ship missiles.
                    Like the Tu-22M3. By the way, as you think, apart from the main forces, the strike group of the ekranoplanes should receive the command center
                    Especially taking into account the fact that their take-off will not go unnoticed and they will be led from the airport itself.
                    THAN?
                    And in the end, there is also the landing "Eaglet".
                    Kamikaze plant?
                    There are small submarines for sabotage
                    There are normal ships for a normal landing.
                    Threat I’m not minus anyone here in principle.
                    1. +1
                      April 17 2012 11: 48
                      Like the Tu-22M3. By the way, as you think, apart from the main forces, the strike group of the ekranoplanes should receive the command center
                      That is, you want to say that any ship detached from the warrant- is that all, only to the bottom? belay Wait a look at what the "Loonies" are armed with, then I will answer.
                      THAN?
                      And what do planes usually "lead" with? Radar, satellite, visual surveillance wink
                      Kamikaze plant?
                      Yeah, every Eaglet carries two armored personnel carriers with selected kamikaze. laughing From this point of view, the whole concept of landing ships in general and the marine corps in particular is vicious, they are all kamikazes! laughing
                      1. +2
                        April 17 2012 11: 52
                        I looked, I found: "Lun" is armed with "Mosquitoes" (Sunburns, if you like). Central control is possible from aviation and from satellites. No problem here
                      2. -1
                        April 17 2012 12: 00
                        That is, you want to say that any vessel coming off the warrant is all, only to the bottom?
                        In battle, either heroically introduce yourself or bring down quickly to the base.
                        And what do planes usually "lead" with? Radar, satellite, visual surveillance
                        These are fairy tales from films. There are few satellites. What radar?
                        Aha, each "Eaglet" carries two armored personnel carriers with selected kamikaze. laughing From this point of view, the whole concept of landing ships in general and the marines in particular is vicious - they are all kamikaze! laughing
                        Why isolate the air landing zones and calmly land. And a bunch of AB + 2 UDC + under the cover of Frigates and corvettes with ICAPL will give prostatzo to any enemy. And will be able to supply the group
                        1 AWACS
                        2 air cover
                        3 drummers
                        4 fuels and lubricants and ammunition
                        5 Hospitalization
                        Etc. Ekranoplanes will not be able to.
                        Threat advantages ekranoplanes over the regiment Tu-22M3 I do not see.
                      3. -3
                        April 17 2012 12: 22
                        I do not see the advantages of ekranoplanes over the Tu-22M3 regiment.
                        And I do not see the advantages of the Tu-22M3 over the Tu-160 and especially over the T-100. "Sotka" 22nd effortlessly does in all respects.
                        These are fairy tales from films.
                        That is, it is impossible to detect an airplane? belay These are certainly fairy tales. laughing
                        In the event of the beginning of full-scale hostilities, when ekranoplanes with RCC are needed, there will be enough intelligence of all kinds wink

                        You twist what I write. I did not suggest that one ekranoplan perform all the functions of the rest of the fleet.
                      4. +2
                        April 17 2012 13: 00
                        Okay, due to the fact that the production of CMs and their "descendants" for the Navy is not planned in the near future, and the existing ones will soon dispose of this dispute anyway, it makes no sense.
                        http://www.izvestia.ru/news/507349

                        Well, let it be so ..... But as if later I didn’t have to catch up ...
                      5. -1
                        April 17 2012 14: 44
                        And I do not see the advantages of the Tu-22M3 over the Tu-160 and especially over the T-100. "Sotka" 22nd effortlessly does in all respects.
                        These different tactical niches should not be confused. Here we have a specific task to deliver n the Number of missiles with z speed to the point q. While the aircraft have a higher launch range, the speed is higher and maneuverability.
                        Maybe the range will take no Lun 2000 km but no the same 2000 km.
                        That is, it is impossible to detect an airplane? belay This is certainly a fairy tale. laughing
                        Show me at least 1 radar station that can detect the take-off of a regiment, for example, for 5000 km
                        enough intelligence of all kinds
                        No, this will be the main problem.
                        You twist what I write. I did not suggest that one ekranoplan perform all the functions of the rest of the fleet.
                        Then what to do. Salvation?
                        There are clearly better seaplanes.
                      6. 0
                        April 17 2012 15: 06
                        While the aircraft have a higher launch range
                        The rocket is the same, why is the launch range different?

                        There are clearly better seaplanes
                        The Be-12s flew out, there will be no new ones, the A-40 is not there, the Be-200 is a fire department. AND?

                        Then what to do. Do you even read what I write? Apparently not.
                      7. -1
                        April 17 2012 15: 17
                        The rocket is the same, why is the launch range different?
                        Gravity abolished?
                        The Be-12s flew out, there will be no new ones, the A-40 is not there, the Be-200 is a fire department. AND?
                        There are no ekranoplanes, but the Be-200 can be made not a fire which is obviously faster.
                        Do you even read what I write? Apparently not.
                        Well, let better people carry
                      8. +1
                        April 17 2012 21: 52
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Show me at least 1 radar station that can detect the take-off of a regiment, for example, for 5000 km
                        enough intelligence of all kinds

                        For 5 tyrov- I don’t know .... But for the 3700- Amerovskaya 414L (I can’t show either, it’s a long trip to Maine) lol
                      9. -1
                        April 18 2012 09: 09
                        it is an overhead for SPRN laughing
                      10. SIT
                        0
                        April 17 2012 14: 43
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Why isolate the air landing zones and calmly land. And a bunch of AB + 2 UDC + under the cover of Frigates and corvettes with ICAPL will give prostatzo to any enemy. And will be able to supply the group
                        1 AWACS
                        2 air cover
                        3 drummers
                        4 fuels and lubricants and ammunition
                        5 Hospitalization
                        Etc. Ekranoplanes will not be able to.
                        Threat advantages ekranoplanes over the regiment Tu-22M3 I do not see.

                        How long will this bunch spank to the landing area? When she comes there, the enemy will have everything that can shoot - enough time. Why do you think combat ekranoplanes should be a copy of what happened in the 70s? Take compare Mig 19 and F119 made by technology Stells. Project it on the ekranoplans. It is very difficult to detect a low-flying target in the conditions of continuous cloudiness at night and the absence of its mark on the radar, and this night the ekranoplanes squadron will be enough to find itself where they were not expected. A volley of guided missiles at targets previously reported by the reconnaissance from full speed when approaching the landing area, landing on a sloping bank and landing of the forward landing forces is minutes from a volley to the beginning of the landing. Nobody will have time to come to their senses and the marines do not have to run to full length on machine guns to grapple with melee and shoulder the enemy to break deep into the bridgehead because if they lie down on the edge they will be mixed with sand by the artillery and the approaching enemy tanks. Here also fragments from enemy equipment and weapons will fall to the ground, and guys in camouflage with anchors on their sleeves will already jump into the trenches of a stunned enemy. Here, shell-shocked or not really, but there’s no time to yawn, you have to dump it, because the landing party does not take prisoners - there is nothing to feed them.
                      11. -1
                        April 17 2012 15: 30
                        How long will this bunch spank to the landing area? When she comes there, the enemy will have everything that can shoot - enough time.
                        So aviation this landing mixes with the earth if you immediately transfer from the military air defense?
                        Project it on the ekranoplans.
                        Meanwhile, well, there will be a special coat but it will be golden
                        The seawater will not go anywhere.
                        It is very difficult to detect a low-flying target in the conditions of continuous cloudiness at night and the absence of its mark on the radar, and this night the ekranoplanes squadron will be enough to find itself where they were not expected.
                        Even imagining that he would be stealth. What's the point, he’s big, just big Hokai, he will be noticed at the same range as ordinary planes going to the PMV.
                        A volley of guided missiles at targets previously reported by the reconnaissance from full speed when approaching the landing area, landing on a sloping bank and landing of the forward landing forces is minutes from a volley to the beginning of the landing.
                        Reconnaissance of goals what will be realized?
                        What prevents them from firing a volley at ICAPL, their stealth will be higher.
                        And again the question is how to cover the landing?
                        Here also fragments from enemy equipment and weapons will fall to the ground
                        Yeah, at that moment, the alert units of enemy aircraft rose in alarm and knowing that no one alive was covering the landing area with cluster munitions. At the same time, enemy reconnaissance alarms are raised and within a maximum of 30 minutes they find the WIG and aim shockers at them. which dropping PTB on afterburner go to the line of launch.
                      12. SIT
                        +1
                        April 17 2012 16: 30
                        Quote: leon-iv

                        So aviation this landing mixes with the earth if you immediately transfer from the military air defense?

                        Why not place air defense systems on ekranoplanes? And how can they even be without these complexes?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Meanwhile, well, there will be a special coat but it will be golden
                        The seawater will not go anywhere.

                        If in the ratio of price to quality, this very quality will be completely new, against which it is still unknown what to do, then the price is not so important. Moreover, everything is different here, and not, for example, French like the Mistral.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Even imagining that he would be stealth. What's the point, he’s big, just big Hokai, he will be noticed at the same range as ordinary planes going to the PMV.

                        If there is no mark on the radar, the infrared trace from above through the clouds is not visible, and the night is such that at least an eye pokes them out only at the time of the volley, and it's too late.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Reconnaissance of goals what will be realized?
                        What prevents them from firing a volley at ICAPL, their stealth will be higher.
                        And again the question is how to cover the landing?

                        Not by what, but by whom. For this purpose, parts of the Special Forces were created, and not at all for the BB and GUIN.
                        ICAPL must first leave the base unnoticed and reach the launch area undetected, and this is not one day and all this time the anti-submarine defense forces will work out their salaries.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Yeah, at that moment, the alert units of enemy aircraft rose in alarm and knowing that no one alive was covering the landing area with cluster munitions. At the same time, enemy reconnaissance alarms are raised and within a maximum of 30 minutes they find the WIG and aim shockers at them. which dropping PTB on afterburner go to the line of launch.

                        The duty units may just be in the air, but they will not know anything. Due to the suddenness and speed of landing there, the first hours there will be a fire in the mess during the flood. No one will really know what is actually happening, including, unfortunately, the command of the landing. Aerial reconnaissance of the enemy in the morning fog and overcast will see only the reflections of the tears, it is not clear what and where. And when the bridgehead is captured, its own fighter, attack aircraft and transport will begin to work, tossing reinforcements, equipment and ammunition.
                      13. 0
                        April 17 2012 17: 01
                        Why not place air defense systems on ekranoplanes? And how can they even be without these complexes?
                        To put it mildly, for a normal radar, you need 2 radars as high as possible. Which devour hundreds of kilowatts of energy. + calculations + ammunition.
                        And air defense should be of different ranges of destruction. For example, shooting a long-range missile on a helicopter is very expensive. Therefore, you need to have air defense of the inner circle. that is, at least 3 sides + ASUP and so on and so forth. On NK it is decided.
                        If in the ratio of price to quality, this very quality will be completely new, against which it is still unknown what to do, then the price is not so important.
                        Somewhere I already heard F-22 call bully
                        Moreover, everything is different here, and not, for example, French like the Mistral.
                        Our Mistral Armament is the main thing; no one will put the shit weapon of the paddlers on our NK
                        If there is no mark on the radar, the infrared trace from above through the clouds is not visible, and the night is such that at least an eye pokes them out only at the time of the volley, and it's too late.
                        And where is the light going? In stealth ships with EPR less than 100m2 I have little faith
                        Not by what, but by whom. Parts of SPN for this and created
                        The duty units may just be in the air, but they will not know anything.
                        Yes, of course, no one will be busy and the loss of communication will not be perceived in any way and there are no local residents around)))))
                        O_o don’t even know how to comment on this. Stationary targets would probably be easier to chart from a satellite by an agent network, but not by any means.
                        ICAPL must first leave the base unnoticed and reach the launch area undetected, and this is not one day and all this time the anti-submarine defense forces will work out their salaries.
                        And ekranoplanes teleport quietly bully
                        Due to the suddenness and speed of landing there, the first hours there will be a fire in the mess during the flood.
                        In the first hours, strikes will be made on the enemy troops and attack helicopters will scour the search for targets.
                        Aerial reconnaissance of the enemy in the morning fog and overcast will see only the reflections of the tears, it is not clear what and where.
                        Umm, the Second World War ended long ago. For example, the rate of receiving a signal from three channels is thermal, visible, night.
                        And when the bridgehead is captured, its own fighter, attack aircraft and transport will begin to work, tossing reinforcements, equipment and ammunition.
                        And how many people do you need to drop off to capture the 10x10 bridgehead.
                        Where does its own aircraft teleport and provide cover within a radius of 80 km for the safe operation of the BTA?
                      14. SIT
                        0
                        April 17 2012 18: 04
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        To put it mildly, for a normal radar, you need 2 radars as high as possible. Which devour hundreds of kilowatts of energy. + calculations + ammunition.
                        And air defense should be of different ranges of destruction. For example, shooting a long-range missile on a helicopter is very expensive. Therefore, you need to have air defense of the inner circle. that is, at least 3 sides + ASUP and so on and so forth. On NK it is decided.

                        Well, the whole ekranoplan as a whole will be at the height of the masts. The energy of such power of turbojet engines will be enough for the entire economy with a margin. Different levels of air defense on ekranoplanes will not be like on NK, but like in aviation - air-to-air missiles and cannon armament.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        If in the ratio of price to quality, this very quality will be completely new, against which it is still unknown what to do, then the price is not so important.
                        Somewhere I already heard F-22 call

                        It will be possible to laugh or cry after application in full-blown conflicts. There the price-quality ratio will become clear.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        And where is the light going? In stealth ships with EPR less than 100m2 I have little faith

                        HERE first let them design the stealth version of the ekranoplan, and there we will see the dispersion area. There is also active interference and a couple of planes can fly by, from which tons of foil will spill out.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Yes, of course, no one will be busy and the loss of communication will not be perceived in any way and there are no local residents around)))))
                        O_o don’t even know how to comment on this. Stationary targets would probably be easier to chart from a satellite by an agent network, but not by any means.

                        The locals will be especially informative when at one in the morning at 5 in the morning they will jump out of the house a couple of minutes before getting into it what thread of crap that blew it to the foundation. Loss of communication will also allow you to make a strategic conclusion - well, that’s n ... dec! From a satellite, only by ballistic characteristics of the orbit without ground reference can we obtain accuracy in terms of 20m to 50m. For greater accuracy, we either need laser illumination of targets or a breakdown of the inertial guidance system in the surrounding area that is unified with the coordinate system of ammunition, because it’s unlikely that you can easily approach a strategic object with a geodetic GPS even in RTK mode. Will all this be done by agents? Their last name is Bond? James Bond?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        And ekranoplanes teleport quietly

                        They will have one night for this, during which a warm front will pass in the landing area, and it is better to hang the occlusion front, so that in the morning the fog will reach the very clouds.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Umm, the Second World War ended long ago. For example, the rate of receiving a signal from three channels is thermal, visible, night.

                        What will be visible in all 3 channels with continuous cloud cover, predawn darkness and fog? These yawing helicopters wouldn’t beat each other and that’s good.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        And how many people do you need to drop off to capture the 10x10 bridgehead.
                        Where does its own aircraft teleport and provide cover within a radius of 80 km for the safe operation of the BTA?

                        It depends on the number of defenders, and its own aircraft will break through from its airfields to the landing area. She will be focused for this, prepared and will receive an appropriate order. I don’t think that there is not even a globe in the General Staff and they will send SF marines on ekranoplanes to seize a bridgehead in the Nazca desert, where only planes with landing in Orly or Charles De Gaulle can fly.
                      15. -1
                        April 17 2012 19: 14
                        Well, the whole ekranoplan as a whole will be at the height of the masts. The energy of such power of turbojet engines will be enough for the entire economy with a margin. Different levels of air defense on ekranoplanes will not be like on NK, but like in aviation - air-to-air missiles and cannon armament.
                        Of course you can BUT fuel supply ......
                        And air-to-air missiles are generally enchanting nonsense. Let me ask you what APU will be.
                        It will be possible to laugh or cry after application in full-blown conflicts. There the price-quality ratio will become clear.
                        You recall how Hitler ended up with the prodigies?
                        Loss of communication will also allow you to make a strategic conclusion - well, that’s n ... dec!
                        Which means that this zone needs to be closed. What will happen to the landing?
                        From a satellite, only by ballistic characteristics of the orbit without ground reference can we obtain accuracy in terms of 20m to 50m. For greater accuracy, we either need laser illumination of targets or a breakdown of the inertial guidance system in the surrounding area that is unified with the coordinate system of ammunition, because it’s unlikely that you can easily approach a strategic object with a geodetic GPS even in RTK mode. Will all this be done by agents?
                        Just the same, yes, this is their work on the SVR.
                        They will have one night for this, during which a warm front will pass in the landing area, and it is better to hang the occlusion front, so that in the morning the fog will reach the very clouds.
                        Move to 3000 km? LLC without refueling during the threatened period O_o
                        What will be visible in all 3 channels with continuous cloud cover, predawn darkness and fog? These yawing helicopters wouldn’t beat each other and that’s good.
                        Quite a tolerable picture + another radar mm range.
                        It depends on the number of defenders, and its own aircraft will break through from its airfields to the landing area. She will be focused for this, prepared and will receive an appropriate order. I don’t think that there is not even a globe in the General Staff and they will send SF marines on ekranoplanes to seize a bridgehead in the Nazca desert, where only planes with landing in Orly or Charles De Gaulle can fly.
                        Why sacrifice the landing?
                        Except on remote theater. When you can cover it well. Crumble the group still on the way and provide cover in all directions?
                      16. SIT
                        +1
                        April 17 2012 19: 53
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Of course you can BUT fuel supply ......
                        And air-to-air missiles are generally enchanting nonsense.

                        The fuel reserve will depend on the required range. And why did the air-to-air missiles not please !?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        You recall how Hitler ended up with the prodigies?

                        Yes, I don’t remember. Both the USA and the USSR then launched its Fau 5 another 2 years later, and threw another stronghold of wunderwaffles, which he did not modify, thank God, a bastion of democracy and freedom on Hiroshima.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Which means that this zone needs to be closed. What will happen to the landing?

                        And which zone? Where is the adversary? What forces? Why throw it there? Or immediately with a margin of megaton so 15?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Just the same, yes, this is their work on the SVR.

                        Crawling on my belly at dusk and installing guidance system transmitters? For laser illumination, you will have to remove part of the guard, and if everything goes wrong, you still have to carry out this illumination. And what about the meteorological situation of the landing area, the drive lines on which all James Bond will also land? Where are there so many of them, and even with such specific skills? This is not a single group does, there should always be a safety net. This is not straightforward agents, but the partisan brigade of Kovpak mowing down under the local population.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Move to 3000 km? LLC without refueling during the threatened period O_o

                        And this is where for example? Why exactly at 3000km? In general, this is approximately the same as from Arkhangelsk to Sevastopol. Well, TU154 flew without any refueling. Wing of the 21st century will not be able to?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Quite a tolerable picture + another radar mm range.

                        Had to use all this in the weather conditions I described? Even just like that without combat use?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Why sacrifice the landing?
                        Except on remote theater.

                        Well, I'm not saying that the landing party will survive. This does not happen. But this does not mean that they will land him without providing cover from the air. Without such cover, the landing of mass assault is simply impossible.
                      17. 0
                        April 17 2012 21: 56
                        The fuel reserve will depend on the required range. And why did the air-to-air missiles not please !?
                        Autonomy. And explosives like how to tell you this. Another class and tasks are durgie.
                        . Both the USA and the USSR then launched its Fau 5 another 2 years later, and threw another stronghold of wunderwaffles, which he did not modify, thank God, a bastion of democracy and freedom on Hiroshima.
                        Bingo. Therefore, we don’t need child props yet.
                        And which zone? Where is the adversary? What forces? Why throw it there? Or immediately with a margin of megaton so 15?
                        The landings where the baht of the marines will mix the enemy with shit. How will rocket planes provide support?
                        Crawling on my belly at dusk and installing guidance system transmitters? For laser illumination, you will have to remove part of the guard, and if everything goes wrong, you still have to carry out this illumination. And what about the meteorological situation of the landing area, the drive lines on which all James Bond will also land? Where are there so many of them, and even with such specific skills? This is not a single group does, there should always be a safety net. This is not straightforward agents, but the partisan brigade of Kovpak mowing down under the local population.
                        why such grace in the age of google mapa)))) tracking for mobile operators, etc., etc. What is A-GPS you know? This is so for fun.
                        And this is where for example? Why exactly at 3000km? In general, this is approximately the same as from Arkhangelsk to Sevastopol. Well, TU154 flew without any refueling. Wing of the 21st century will not be able to?
                        fuel efficiency of engines has not changed much.
                        Had to use all this in the weather conditions I described? Even just like that without combat use?
                        Kamrad works with UAV in the FSB in my region
                        Well, I'm not saying that the landing party will survive. This does not happen. But this does not mean that they will land him without providing cover from the air. Without such cover, the landing of mass assault is simply impossible.
                        Then either an aircraft carrier or half empty suspensions or it’s easier to reach the ground
                      18. SIT
                        +2
                        April 18 2012 12: 27
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        And explosives like how to tell you this. Another class and tasks are durgie.

                        And what else can you start with horseradish rushing at a speed of 500km / h?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        The landings where the baht of the marines will mix the enemy with shit. How will rocket planes provide support?

                        It is then that historians will describe who landed where and what they did. If it is possible to ensure a surprise landing, and only ekranoplanes allow this, then the definition of this zone, the landing force, their location will not be clear relatively soon and no one will open a friendly fire. WIG can be both landing and fire support. You can cram them now more than in Lun.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        why such grace in the age of google mapa)))) tracking for mobile operators, etc., etc. What is A-GPS you know? This is so for fun.

                        What are google and sotik in wartime !? A-GPS receives Old for accelerated initialization via terrestrial channels - they are slammed shut there. As well as the GPS itself. Or do you have 100% confidence that the United States will be allies and leave its navigation system open for us? God grant that at least GLONASS satellites were still flying by that moment, and all kinds of mobile operators there will only be in memories from a past life.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        fuel efficiency of engines has not changed much.

                        Well, judging by the Boeing 777 compared to 747, if you achieve the same efficiency in the ekranoplan engines, then refueling will last for 6 hours, and this is just 3000 km. Although this is the landing range on the US coast from Vladivostok. This is really some kind of Hollywood horror.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Then either an aircraft carrier or half empty suspensions or it’s easier to reach the ground

                        Buran was taken to Mrieux. Why not place a pair of MiG or SU on special aircraft ekranoplanes? After practicing, they can go to airfields. And from its airfields, aviation can fly with refueling in the air.
                        Actually, I lead to the fact that ekranoplans is an asymmetric response to aircraft carrier groups and existing landing facilities. You can collect 4-5 aircraft carrier groups to cover airborne assets in order to attack which thread the 3rd world country, but you can hardly count on success in the case of not even the USSR, and today's RF. There is no surprise, the enemy will determine the landing area in advance and plant mines there both in the wave of the surf zone, where the sea minesweepers are already small, and the sappers will be exactly headlong, and on the adjacent beaches. Anti-ship missiles can also be scattered about in the bushes, buried in bunkers in the sand, until you stumble over them and you will not see. WIGs provide this surprise. IMHO this is a new quality of the marine corps. WIGs with a lifting capacity of 200 tons will be able to transfer heavy equipment and l / s at a speed of 500 km / h for thousands of kilometers. It’s like an Airborne, only with heavier weapons and stealth. If the idea of ​​ekranoplanes is brought to mind, then aircraft carriers can be written off in the wake after the battleships. US NAVY will go binge. laughing
                      19. 0
                        April 18 2012 14: 00
                        Quote: SIT
                        ekranoplanes is an asymmetric response to aircraft carrier groups

                        Support! good
                        It’s easier to drown them than to build them yourself laughing
                      20. -1
                        April 18 2012 15: 18
                        And what else can you start with horseradish rushing at a speed of 500km / h?
                        You and they will not run. So cross out the air defense on the go. In general, it can be written off
                        If it is possible to ensure a surprise landing, and only ekranoplanes allow this, then the definition of this zone, the landing force, their location will not be clear relatively soon and no one will open a friendly fire.
                        Again the tales of the Viennese forest. It is necessary to provide for a long time. Prior to ground grouping, at least 1 week. THAN?
                        WIG can be both landing and fire support. You can cram them now more than in Lun.
                        No equipment form factor has not changed. Armaments and engines too.
                        What are google and sotik in wartime !?
                        Emm Chukchi is not a reader. All coordinates of objects are recognized BEFORE the database and not in the process. And changing the landscape to manual is for good comedies.
                        Well, judging by the Boeing 777 compared to 747, if you achieve the same efficiency in the ekranoplan engines, then refueling will last for 6 hours, and this is just 3000 km.
                        Yeah, our aerodynamists were calculating it. But this is a civilian side; he does not need to drive with afterburner and drive with overloads.
                        Why not place a pair of MiG or SU on special aircraft ekranoplanes? After practicing, they can go to airfields. And from its airfields, aviation can fly with refueling in the air.
                        And they will go to battle with the PTB? Ali on parole will fly.
                        And from its airfields, aviation can fly with refueling in the air.
                        In this case,
                        1 you need to gain dominance in the air in the corridor 200km to introduce air defense systems and so on. And only then you can safely refuel the sides.
                        2 seize air supremacy
                        3 Take out the air defense
                        4 Providing landing.
                        At the same time, it will be necessary to spend at least 1 week on all eo. But why bite a cactus if you can bring the airbase directly to the shore and bear cruel totalitarian oppression by means of an air wing and UDC under the guise of ICAPL and NK. Even the brigade with the air support of the ISIS and attack drills will be tortured by the enemy to pick.
                        Actually, I lead to the fact that ekranoplans is an asymmetric response to aircraft carrier groups and existing landing facilities.
                        You did not give me any evidence of this. All your arguments are similar to the ravings of the pacifier Kalashnikov.
                        There is no surprise, the enemy will determine the landing area in advance and plant mines there both in the wave of the surf zone, where the sea minesweepers are already small, and the sappers will be exactly headlong, and on the adjacent beaches
                        Will the 3rd world country know where the landing will be, or is it so rich to cover the entire coast? And the AUS itself imposes a landing site. And only the USA and Russia can produce quick mining.
                        Anti-ship missiles can also be scattered about in the bushes, buried in bunkers in the sand, until you stumble over them and you will not see.
                        This is only similar to our CLUB exported version. But I am absolutely confident that our Navy will be able to neutralize this threat. But here the second question comes into play: "Where is the money Zin" in the sense of CU. But he is not. And the scouts are already flying. And the blows of the CD are delivered. And there is no target for the coastal complexes.
                        WIGs with a lifting capacity of 200 tons will be able to transfer heavy equipment and l / s at a speed of 500 km / h for thousands of kilometers.
                        I have no air cover for kamikaze, and no one will do that.
                        If the idea of ​​ekranoplanes is brought to mind, then aircraft carriers can be written off in the wake after the battleships. US NAVY will go binge.
                        Can you justify me how the ekranoplan is better than the ICAPL which grazes 150 km from the AUG?
                      21. SIT
                        -2
                        April 18 2012 17: 26
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        You and they will not run. So cross out the air defense on the go. In general, it can be written off

                        Why? What law of physics will hinder?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Again the tales of the Viennese forest. It is necessary to provide for a long time. Prior to ground grouping, at least 1 week. THAN?

                        I actually talked about the moment of landing, when the landing is the most vulnerable. When he has already seized the bridgehead, he has entrenched and is holding supplies will be organized as well as the usual landing. And why exactly a week ?!
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        No equipment form factor has not changed. Armaments and engines too.

                        Even those volumes that are enough.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Emm Chukchi is not a reader. All coordinates of objects are recognized BEFORE the database and not in the process. And changing the landscape to manual is for good comedies.

                        And what was there before the database? Well the beach. Well, maybe a nudist. Well, the fishing village. Or was there a nudist sunbathing among the dug-in self-propelled guns and tanks, on the parapet of trenches, and ran around the minefields to swim?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Yeah, our aerodynamists were calculating it. But this is a civilian side; he does not need to drive with afterburner and drive with overloads.

                        So ekranoplan is also not a fighter or even a ground attack aircraft.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        seize air supremacy
                        3 Take out the air defense
                        4 Providing landing.
                        At the same time, it will be necessary to spend at least 1 week on all eo. But why bite a cactus if you can bring the airbase directly to the shore and bear cruel totalitarian oppression by means of an air wing and UDC under the guise of ICAPL and NK. Even the brigade with the air support of the ISIS and attack drills will be tortured by the enemy to pick.

                        Why again a week then ?! And this is necessary for any landing at least from what. And the air base right on the coast is primarily a hefty target, which will spank so much to this coast that it will tire of showing on TV. What secrecy is there. And on it they will beat from all systems and calibers - from missiles of all kinds to all kinds and ending with underwater saboteurs.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        You did not give me any evidence of this. All your arguments are similar to the ravings of the pacifier Kalashnikov

                        Are you interested in these Internet tricks like delirium, bullshit, babble, etc.? Strange, it seemed to me that you and besides the Internet saw something.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Will the 3rd world country know where the landing will be, or is it so rich to cover the entire coast? And the AUS itself imposes a landing site. And only the USA and Russia can produce quick mining.

                        Yes, everyone will do it! This armada will sail to an uninhabited coast, where it will be unsafe for a man for another hundred years, because why the thread breaks. Russia and the United States simply have more funds to drown the entire armada before landing.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Can you justify me how the ekranoplan is better than the ICAPL which grazes 150 km from the AUG?

                        A submarine is not a means of landing - tanks will not crawl into a torpedo tube.
                      22. 0
                        April 18 2012 17: 45
                        Why? What law of physics will hinder?
                        See above what I wrote about energy consumption and air defense ranges, and crossing a hedgehog with a snake always comes out badly.
                        I actually talked about the moment of landing, when the landing is the most vulnerable. When he has already seized the bridgehead, he has entrenched and is holding supplies will be organized as well as the usual landing. And why exactly a week ?!
                        Average time offensive infantry brigades at 200 km. (In ideal conditions)
                        + The lack of heavy equipment multiplies by 0 the chances of survival, and a range of 300 km passes without any problems any landing craft per day.
                        Even those volumes that are enough.
                        Calculate the outfit of forces and means for landing and supporting the baht of the marines.
                        And what was there before the database? Well the beach. Well, maybe a nudist. Well, the fishing village. Or was there a nudist sunbathing among the dug-in self-propelled guns and tanks, on the parapet of trenches, and ran around the minefields to swim?
                        No, the exact coordinates of the Bases of bridges of transport junctions of road junctions are not important. As well as shooting positions. And so on and so on, all this is revealed and recorded in advance in advance.
                        So ekranoplan is also not a fighter or even a ground attack aircraft.
                        What does it change it is not necessary to calculate?
                        Are you interested in these Internet tricks like delirium, bullshit, babble, etc.? Strange, it seemed to me that you and besides the Internet saw something.
                        Do not engage in demagogy, but clearly from a scientific and technical point of view, describe to me the advantages of WIG. While I see only slogans.
                        Yes, everyone will do it! This armada will sail to an uninhabited coast, where it will be unsafe for a man for another hundred years, because why the thread breaks. Russia and the United States simply have more funds to drown the entire armada before landing.
                        I am absolutely not interested in the 3rd world countries; I am interested in the Russian Navy. So while I do not see a real alternative to the classic landing operations. In the event of a war between the United States and the Russian Federation, it will be, if not with the help of strategic nuclear forces, then with tactical nuclear weapons. And all the rest will not be able to give the Central Administration not to carry out quick PDMs. So the speed of ekranoplanes is useless. Cover and security are much more important.
                        A submarine is not a means of landing - tanks will not crawl into a torpedo tube.
                        But as a delivery vehicle for "minerals" it is almost ideal.
                      23. SIT
                        +1
                        April 19 2012 11: 11
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        See above what I wrote about energy consumption and air defense ranges, and crossing a hedgehog with a snake always comes out badly.

                        But the ekranoplan itself is not the result of crossing the aircraft and NK? It would be logical to do the same with weapons.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Average time offensive infantry brigades at 200 km. (In ideal conditions)
                        + The lack of heavy equipment multiplies by 0 the chances of survival, and a range of 300 km passes without any problems any landing craft per day.

                        Damn, the task of the landing is to seize and hold the bridgehead, and others will advance 200 km deep. WIG 200t. Is this not enough to transfer heavy equipment?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        No, the exact coordinates of the Bases of bridges of transport junctions of road junctions are not important. As well as shooting positions. And so on and so on, all this is revealed and recorded in advance in advance.

                        Bridges, traffic intersections, etc. already entered on electronic maps and you only need to enter their coordinates in the corresponding ammunition, but this is not the task of the fire support forces of the landing. Their task is to destroy everything that can shoot directly in the landing strip. But only reconnaissance can reveal these goals a few days before the landing, as the situation can change very quickly and track it right up to the first salvo of landing support forces.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        What does it change it is not necessary to calculate?

                        It was about afterburner and overloads. Why is this in general a vehicle? What will he take off with a candle from half the band with an overload of 5g?
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Do not engage in demagogy, but clearly from a scientific and technical point of view, describe to me the advantages of WIG. While I see only slogans.

                        And about peysateley is not demagoguery? Although really let’s somehow curl up, otherwise we’ve spilled thoughts. So IMHO ekranoplan is a new quality of the Marine Corps, because significantly increases the speed of delivery with a significant carrying capacity. In case of successful use of stealth technology, secrecy of delivery is also ensured, which neither modern MP means nor airborne forces can provide. That's just that and all that I wanted to say.
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        So while I do not see a real alternative to the classic landing operations. In the event of a war between the United States and the Russian Federation, it will be, if not with the help of strategic nuclear forces, then with tactical nuclear weapons.

                        Strange conclusion. Are you sure that while the armada spanks into the landing area, none of the TNW will get where it is necessary and end this whole epic? In the case of landing from the ekranoplanes, which could not be found on the approach, firing nuclear weapons at their own territory, where it is not clear where their own and where strangers are somehow not very handy.
                      24. -1
                        April 19 2012 12: 10
                        But the ekranoplan itself is not the result of crossing the aircraft and NK? It would be logical to do the same with weapons.
                        Well, if you call a planing boat a ship, yes. he has little in common with NK.
                        Damn, the task of the landing is to seize and hold the bridgehead, and others will advance 200 km deep. WIG 200t. Is this not enough to transfer heavy equipment?
                        Yes, look very little at the capacity of UDC and BDK. And 200 km I wrote about how much you need to dig up reinforcements to join the landing.
                        Bridges, traffic intersections, etc. already entered on electronic maps and you only need to enter their coordinates in the corresponding ammunition, but this is not the task of the fire support forces of the landing. Their task is to destroy everything that can shoot directly in the landing strip. But only reconnaissance can reveal these goals a few days before the landing, as the situation can change very quickly and track it right up to the first salvo of landing support forces.
                        But the classical landing can provide support for a much greater range, especially with UDC with turntables and NK with the Kyrgyz Republic.
                        So IMHO ekranoplan is a new quality of the Marine Corps, because significantly increases the speed of delivery with a significant carrying capacity.
                        We will analyze
                        1 Speed ​​yes, there is no doubt about it And then you can argue the tactical landing is more convenient to land from turntables.
                        2 Load capacity we take our new project Ivan Gren 11711 13 tanks
                        that is, he can carry 800 tons at a range of 6000 km at a speed of 16 knots, that is, for example, at 300 km he will deliver troops in a night. Covered by a strong NK group. At the same time, only 2 countries Russia and the USA can notice this grouping. Other similar radars do not have.
                        In case of successful use of stealth technology, secrecy of delivery is also ensured.
                        Stealth is not a science fiction for the journalist. No more. And again I repeat.
                        At the same time, only 2 countries Russia and the USA can notice this grouping. Other similar radars do not have. Therefore, to make ships with a gold price for incomprehensible purposes? A small group is better to land with a submarine.
                        neither airborne
                        Airborne, from our understanding, is a vestigial that will be transformed into airborne troops.
                        Are you sure that while the armada spanks into the landing area, none of the TNW will get where it is necessary and end this whole epic?
                        Do you think the order goes like in a parade? EMNIP ranges between ships will be 10-15 km. And when the TNW speaks, the landings will no longer be needed.
                        In the case of landing from the ekranoplanes, which could not be found on the approach, firing nuclear weapons at their own territory, where it is not clear where their own and where strangers are somehow not very handy.
                        Who told you that Russia and the United States will not find them? And in isolation from the main forces they are quickly mixed with the earth.
                        To sum up
                        At ranges of up to 1000 km ordinary ships reach in two days but have very strong cover.
                        At ranges of more than 1000 km Ekranoplanes are not applicable since the limited range is limited. And even after landing, he will not be able to cover it thereby dooming to certain death. That is, he will have to wait for the same NK.
                      25. 0
                        April 20 2012 15: 56
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        on the ravings of the pacifier Kalashnikov

                        With all his worms in his head, WRITER Kalashnikov often puts forward very practical ideas.
                      26. Arc76
                        +1
                        April 17 2012 13: 42
                        Yes, events on the Pacific theater of operations in the Second World War showed that any vessel torn off the warrant is a potential drowned man.
                      27. +1
                        April 17 2012 14: 13
                        Yes, I read about that. It’s just that initially I was talking about the whole connection and not about one single ekranoplan. Maybe I just picked up a not entirely correct hyperbole laughing
                        Honestly, I'm a land rat lol I am not good at marine realities.
                2. +2
                  April 17 2012 20: 01
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  How, for example, to the Lunars to fight off an air raid?


                  Air cover
                  1. -1
                    April 17 2012 22: 23
                    then dragging an aircraft carrier. And in the coastal zone from coastal airfields, aviation is preferable
                  2. Vitmir
                    -1
                    12 September 2012 16: 35
                    Where to get it, this air cover, without an aircraft carrier and in case of distance from coastal airfields, eh? Maybe a full-fledged "floating island" with a good air wing is still better than screen-creatures, and even an aircraft carrier for their air cover, if you can't do without it?
                3. +1
                  April 24 2012 21: 46
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  How, for example, to the Lunars to fight off an air raid?

                  From which? if from aircraft carriers, then there is aviation for this, and at this time he himself should do everything in order to drown, damage, and force this tread of intimidation to retreat.
          2. 0
            April 24 2012 21: 41
            Quote: Landwarrior
            universality - both by land and by water and by air, even if it loses to each separately, but, for example, the ship does not float by land wink
            he does not lose to anyone, it's just different.
        2. +2
          April 17 2012 20: 00
          Quote: leon-iv

          And he loses the meaning to ships in the autonomy of aviation in mobility to helicopters in universality.


          Lun (project 903) - anti-ship ekranoplan-rocket carrier. The power plant consisted of eight NK-87 twin-turbojet engines with a thrust of 13300 kgf each. Armament - six launch containers with anti-ship missiles (RCC) ZM-80 "Mosquito" OKB A.Ya. Bereznyak. In operational-tactical terms, "Lun" has just a lot of advantages. It has higher efficiency and higher carrying capacity compared to aircraft. In terms of speed, combat and lifting characteristics, it surpasses hovercraft and hydrofoil. It was hardly noticeable for ship radars and most importantly was very tenacious.

          Having analyzed the prospects of this type of technology and came to the conclusion that there is a significant, to put it mildly, lagging behind of the work (and in fact the lack of such) in the field of ekranoplanostroeniya, US Congress created a special commission to develop an action plan to eliminate the "Russian breakthrough."
          1. 0
            April 17 2012 22: 37
            This words from the series has no analogues.
            let's try to analyze.
            The power plant consisted of eight NK-87 twin-turbojet engines with a thrust of 13300 kgf each.
            And what was the resource in the marine environment with a probability of 146%, it was an order of magnitude less than aviation corrosion can not be got anywhere. And we have a range of 2000 km at a maximum speed of 500 km / h and an average of 400 km / h
            The aircraft has a speed of at least 1000 km / h
            Armament - six launch containers with anti-ship missiles (ASM) ZM-80 Moskit OKB A.Ya. Bereznyak. In\
            EMNIP at a mosquito range of 150 km
            even the old X-22s fly at a distance of 300 km and aviation has the ability to make a stellar raid on a target. Ekranoplanes for this need too much time.
            In terms of speed, combat and lifting characteristics, it surpasses hovercraft and hydrofoil.
            They also did not find widespread use.
            Having analyzed the prospects of this type of technology and came to the conclusion that there is a significant, to put it mildly, lagging behind of works (and actually lack thereof) in the field of ekranoplanostroeniya, the US Congress created a special commission designed to develop an action plan to eliminate the "Russian breakthrough".
            Or maybe we will not look for a black cat in a black room. Just ekranoplanes had no place in the system of the Navy. IMHO it would be better if a couple of normal aircraft carriers were washed down.
            1. 0
              April 17 2012 22: 58
              Quote: leon-iv
              it would be better if they washed down a couple of normal aircraft carriers.

              And thus, they would finish off the economy of the Union 10 years earlier laughing
              1. +2
                April 18 2012 00: 07
                By the way, a PAIR of aircraft carriers in the Union was "cut down" - one was cut in Ukraine, and the other will soon fly under the Chinese flag laughing
              2. 0
                April 18 2012 09: 11
                How Come.
                Hold 3 types of tanks is that? A bunch of different NK projects, etc. Just remove the pre-aircraft carriers and replace them with normal ones, and the combat effectiveness of the fleet would grow very noticeably.
                1. 0
                  April 18 2012 09: 56
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  remove the pre-navy

                  Duc already removed! All helicopter carriers sawn to metal and sold not for expensive.
                  How many aircraft carriers are left? wink

                  Aircraft carriers in the Union built from scratch, therefore both jambs and mistakes and a lot of money thrown into the pipe .. And these are only 2, which, however, were not completed. And how many of them were needed in total? 8? 10? Yes, no matter how much- you can’t catch up with the number of NATO troops. Therefore, the emphasis on RCC is cheaper to drown them than to build your own. Yes, even drowning is not enough to damage the aircraft so that it couldn’t accept it, that's all.
                  1. -1
                    April 18 2012 10: 36
                    for parity with the United States, 5-6 of which 1 will be constantly under repair.
                    Tk for 1 of our aircraft carrier they would have to assemble a group of 3 AUGs for a total of 15 aug this is a minimum.
                    And the aircraft carriers are very necessary for covering the ICAPL and strikes, etc., etc.
                    1. 0
                      April 18 2012 11: 01
                      for parity with the USA, 5-6
                      The Union’s economy has already broken into two, and you say 5-6. Do we have normal planes to equip an aircraft carrier?
                      of which 1 will be constantly under repair You are hot! good laughing

                      on 1 of our aircraft carrier they would have to assemble a group of 3 AUG
                      The air group is crushed by the mass, the carrier remains defenseless.
                      Or, as I wrote above, the take-off deck will be damaged, and that’s all, finite.
                      And in both cases, the result is one - "bul-bul"
                      1. -1
                        April 18 2012 15: 22
                        The Union’s economy has already broken into two, and you say 5-6. Do we have normal planes to equip an aircraft carrier?
                        If you competently approach, the Russian Navy will not tear itself up plans to have 4
                        You are hot!
                        Not at all have you obviously exploited sophisticated equipment. This normal condition after the database is called maintenance.
                        The air group is crushed by the mass, the carrier remains defenseless.
                        Or, as I wrote above, the take-off deck will be damaged, and that’s all, finite.
                        And in both cases, the result is one - "bul-bul"

                        But at this moment, our other AB carries totalitarian oppression in the place where the enemy does not have AUG. Unfortunately, war is mathematics. And these three AUGs remain with well-broken teeth and crawl in for repair.
                      2. -1
                        April 18 2012 15: 28
                        Russian Navy plans to have 4
                        Now the States alone, EMNIP, have 12 aircraft carriers, i.e. 4 potential aircraft carriers can be immediately written off, "Bul-Bul" without options. 3 to 1
                        So
                        But at this moment, our other AB carries totalitarian oppression in the place where the enemy has no AUG

                        will not take place.

                        And what's the point of these aircraft carriers, if there is nothing to arm them with?
                      3. 0
                        April 18 2012 17: 32
                        Now the States alone, EMNIP, have 12 aircraft carriers, i.e. 4 potential aircraft carriers can be immediately written off, "Bul-Bul" without options. 3 to 1
                        Undoubtedly, like most of the surface fleet, but at the same time, our ground army may not be afraid of air strikes. The remaining ones will also be damaged. This is the cruel truth of war.
                        will not take place.

                        And what's the point of these aircraft carriers, if there is nothing to arm them with?

                        There is such a thing as planning, so the ship version will be ready for the construction of the first T-50 aircraft carrier.
                      4. 0
                        April 18 2012 19: 06
                        but at the same time, our ground army may not be afraid of air strikes.
                        Why such optimism? First, "harpoons", then "tartars", then the aviation finishes off what is left. The aircraft carrier makes a loud "Bulk!"
                        the ship version will be ready for the construction of the first T-50 aircraft carrier
                        Oh, come to your senses and answered lol . And then I already thought that, like the MP and RCC, they were scrapped. What is the sense of these T-50s if they are simply taken in numbers?

                        By the way, here I thought at leisure, partly you are right, there will be no big deal from the "harriers", if only because the rest of the grouping of ships behind them simply will not have time, and the enemy's strike delivered in advance will only alert. drinks
                      5. -1
                        April 18 2012 20: 50
                        Why such optimism? First, "harpoons", then "tartars", then the aviation finishes off what is left. The aircraft carrier makes a loud "Bulk!"
                        You again forget that AUG is a group of ships that have a long-range air defense arm and a very strong electronic warfare as well as a couple of mineral carriers. Everyone always forgets that systems howl. Yes, the AUG will perish, but the AUG of the enemy will also be a miserable sight after the RCC Strikes. The main task is not to allow aviation PLO to quickly reveal the location of ICAPL and Aviation wing AB should help in this
                        What is the sense of these T-50s if they are simply taken in numbers?
                        The most important thing is that they complete the task
                        1 Do not allow to quickly open the location of the ICAPL
                        2 Destroy their AWAC with a long hand
                        3 Tearing down air raids And then, after RCC strikes, receiving enemy aircraft on their AB will be extremely difficult. Remember the case of American AB after 1 Hydra rocket exploded. and then 2-3 gifts weighing 8 tons will arrive, of which 3 BB
                      6. 0
                        April 19 2012 00: 22
                        You again forget that AUG is a group of ships
                        I don’t forget. Therefore, he said that in three steps
                        after RCC strikes, the reception of aircraft ... will be extremely difficult
                        The same is true for "our" aircraft carrier, by the way. Given the fact that three formations are fighting against one, they will have more and more aircraft and anti-ship missiles. However, when I wrote about anti-ship missiles with the same "harriers" you somehow shake it off, they say, ekranoplanes won't be able to reach, they won't be able to release them, etc.
                        Those. weaving like a turtle can launch a rocket, but a high-speed platform, no? I don’t see logic.
                        The most important thing is that they complete the task
                        Only if this task is to die heroically. The patrol link from the sky will be demolished at the moment, and the rest will simply not be allowed to fly up. And no air defense will help here. Without airplanes, the defense of all such a formation would not work. RCCs will carry out air defense ships, and the remaining standard installations will simply drown in the stream of targets.
                        Naset of that ill-fated aircraft carrier, yes, I remember, just like the missile "Zuni" was called .... Or I'm confusing something ... In general, the first thing that came to mind is the "exoset" that sank the "Sheffield" lol
                      7. 0
                        April 19 2012 00: 45
                        I don’t forget. Therefore, he said that in three steps
                        Star wearing is one of the most complex types of databases.
                        Given the fact that they are fighting three formations against one, they will have a total of more - both aircraft and anti-ship missiles.
                        Yes, but again, synchronization is very difficult. At the same time, it is necessary to split the strike group, to allocate part to cover the drummers to cover the warrant, and so on, thereby underestimating the number of strike aircraft in the first wave.
                        However, when I wrote about anti-ship missiles with the same "harriers" you somehow shake it off, they say, ekranoplanes won't be able to reach, they won't be able to release them, etc.
                        Let's compare the RCC of moons and mineral carriers with petya. I mean a mosquito against granite? Yours do not dance as they say. + Even the strongest air defense which the ekranoplan does not have. And from the F-18, he will not leave the wrong speed.
                        The patrol link from the sky will be demolished at the moment, and the rest will simply not be allowed to fly up.
                        This is not so patrol unit will work out missiles and leave. And the enemy will be forced to pursue in the area of ​​our anti-aircraft defense because we do not forget that our electronic warfare systems are actively involved in the work and the range of the enemy’s anti-ship missiles begins to decrease. At the same time, even imagining that we missed the lift of the drums (we do not have AWACS), then more than half of the planes we will fly into the air. And we must not forget that the S-300F will begin to work out already from 150 km (like the range has already been raised to 200) and will work on growlers. And I really hope that at 22350 there will be a redoubt in the normal form, then they will turn on so that they will survive the first 2 raids and then hammer with minerals on the adversary.

                        To sum up
                        1 In coastal waters and at a distance of 500 km they rule the ground aviation and KUG + ICAPL
                        2 In the ocean AB + KUG + ICAPL.

                        Precisely ZUNI you +
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I&feature=related
                      8. 0
                        April 19 2012 07: 35
                        Precisely ZUNI you +
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I&feature=related

                        Have you read the caption for this video? laughing
                        Just during this incident at the unfortunate Forestol served as a pilot ... who would you think? ... Current Senator McCain! laughing
                        This rocket hit his plane! laughing laughing
                        You too awesome plus! good
                        As for the rest, I’ll answer later, I have to run away
                      9. -1
                        April 19 2012 14: 09
                        Star wearing is one of the most complex types of databases.
                        It’s difficult, it doesn’t mean impossible! (C) Moreover, the Amers will have more experience of naval warfare and the use of aircraft carriers than ours. But in general, I agree.
                        thereby underestimating the number of strike aircraft in the first wave
                        However, in general, the ratio will not improve significantly early.
                        mosquito against granite
                        Why is Sunburne obligatory? If it is a new machine, new missiles will be installed on it. The harriers were armed with mosquitoes, because there were no others. Well, now there is. Plus, you can arm up to a heap with some kind of "Shkvalami" and put a "bear" with a "dirk".
                        This is not so patrol unit will work out missiles and leave.
                        Where? Fly out the fuel remains and catapult? Will they give them leave?
                        EW is actively involved in the work
                        The enemy also has both "action" and "counteraction"
                        enemy RCC range start to decrease
                        Why is this so? Russian saboteurs leaked kerosene? laughing
                        And we must not forget that the S-300F will begin to work out already from 150 kmAnd also we must not forget that in addition to aviation, anti-ship missiles and all kinds of other nonsense such as descendants of the same "Shrike" are also flying. And electronic warfare also works.
                        hollow minerals on adversary.
                        The two that stay ...
                        In the ocean, AB + KUG + ICAPL.
                        Before the first hit the take-off deck. Further this scheme crumbles.
                      10. -2
                        April 19 2012 16: 36
                        Difficult-doesn’t mean impossible! (C) Moreover, the amers will have more experience of war at sea and the use of aircraft carriers than ours. But in general, I agree

                        However, in general, the ratio will not improve significantly early ..

                        It is believed that the wing will lift almost 30-35 minutes at best.
                        Plus, you can arm up to a heap with some kind of "Shkvalami" and put a "bear" with a "dirk".
                        A flurry needs guidance and an ekranoplan is a normal GAS, and there is limited space for ekranoplaning. ZRAKI need cellars and 2 radars.
                        Where? Fly out the fuel remains and catapult? Will they give them leave?
                        Yes, maybe the cover of the percussionists will be minimal and ours unloaded. Most likely they will wait to land, maybe the air wing will be raised by alarm. Whether they succeed or not, they have fulfilled their mission. Ideal to work on growlers.
                        The enemy also has both "action" and "counteraction"
                        Undoubtedly, there is energy but EW NK is an order of magnitude larger than what is on the Growlers.
                        Why is this so? Russian saboteurs leaked kerosene?
                        No problem with target capture in EW conditions
                        And also we must not forget that in addition to aviation, anti-ship missiles and all kinds of other nonsense such as descendants of the same "Shrike" are also flying. And electronic warfare also works.
                        At HARM, the range 106 in reality is not more than 70km, which means that already our air defense systems will work on them for 80km.
                        The two that stay ...
                        Why
                        We take KUG + AB + 2 MCAPL + cover ships. And they have not yet made a volley.
                        And this is under 50 granites
                        Before the first hit the take-off deck. Further this scheme crumbles.
                        Similarly to AB tana. The question is who will start first. If we are Forrestal they seem a fairy tale.
                      11. 0
                        April 19 2012 22: 10
                        the wing will lift almost 30-35 minutes
                        Well, apparently it is. There are no "vertical blocks", and the catapult takes only one at a time.
                        space is limited
                        The fact that the launchers are placed on the case doesn't mean anything. The same "eaglet" was carrying 2 armored personnel carriers or 150 HP people, and this was on one engine, moreover, it had exhausted its resource.
                        will wait to sit down
                        That is, as I wrote, fly out and catapult.


                        And how do you like this option - we take container ships, at least five pieces, strengthen the deck, cut off the excess. We cover them with Yak-141 as much as you like under cover of false containers.
                        Further, these container ships drift in neutral waters.
                        At this time, a compound of 10 ekranoplanes strikes with anti-ship missiles, at least 40 pieces are allowed, even if not 60. The enemy's aviation rushes to catch up, but it is tied up in battle by the unknown "yashki" that have come from nowhere ..... the holes "are gone and the" yashki "also disappeared somewhere ... there are a couple of peaceful ships on the horizon and a truncated ... wink
                      12. -1
                        April 19 2012 22: 35
                        Well, apparently it is. There are no "vertical blocks", and the catapult takes only one at a time.
                        standard 24 cars in 28 minutes. in 4 catapults, aircraft stand with wing-to-wing suspensions.
                        The fact that the launchers are placed on the case doesn't mean anything. The same "eaglet" was carrying 2 armored personnel carriers or 150 HP people, and this was on one engine, moreover, it had exhausted its resource.
                        So what? Question + how much longer is the resource of these engines. + a lot of things. but it is very small.
                        That is, as I wrote, fly out and catapult.
                        if the situation requires yes
                        And how do you like this option - we take container ships, at least five pieces, strengthen the deck, cut off the excess. We cover them with Yak-141 as much as you like under cover of false containers.
                        What about TsU? and control? The radar signatures are unique to a serious adversary so you can’t fool it.
                        At this time, a connection of 10 ekranoplanes strikes with PCRs, at least 40 pieces are allowed, albeit not 60.
                        Again the oarena is the question of the Central Administration and isn’t it easier to hammer such targets from the trategs (stationary) from very long ranges
                        Enemy aircraft rushes to catch up, but it is tied up in battle by the "yashki" that have come from somewhere ...
                        And run into a fighter cover that binds them in battle
                        And the afterburners hit the target.
                        While we figured it out, while the "holes" are gone and the "yashki" also disappeared somewhere ... there are a couple of peaceful ships on the horizon and truncated ...
                        In fact, we will look
                        1If the Omerikachechi then they will smash the parsnip and will intercept the floor of aviation PLO
                        2 Out of the box (China, India, Europe) why would they not be able to open this carballet quickly our plans with NK
                2. Vitmir
                  -1
                  12 September 2012 16: 17
                  Normal aircraft carriers instead of helicopter carriers, and instead of monitors, by the way, the USSR would have fallen into place.
          2. +2
            April 17 2012 22: 58
            I also think that in conjunction with the ekranoplanes squadron and the fighter or attack aircraft squadron, there is a very serious, and most importantly, quick threat to the enemy. Even such as an aircraft carrier.
            1. 0
              April 17 2012 23: 04
              In my subjective opinion, ekranoplanes would be well docked with tank landing gliders. But here too, massiveness is again needed, several units do not solve anything.
          3. Vitmir
            -1
            12 September 2012 16: 38
            The phrase "efficiency and ekranoplan" is nonsense, and its so-called. "survivability" - until the first wave (rocket), can be compared with hovercrafts and hydrofoils, but stating that these are all dead ends, or constructions. solutions that occupy extremely narrow niches
    2. -1
      April 20 2012 15: 48
      That's why the amers are not designing their "pelican" for the military sphere. For Disneyland, probably ...
  8. +1
    April 17 2012 09: 56
    What a beauty! Only one question - why destroy, then to declare success what you had so ?! Power-masahist, by golly! To say that a little bit, and soon will be, I won’t steal, you yourself know how much, but I can imagine such beauty, and even better hundreds of them.
  9. Num lock U.A.
    0
    April 17 2012 12: 14
    unambiguously develop a promising mode of transport, especially in sparsely populated areas, which in Russia are very many
    1. -1
      April 17 2012 13: 34
      Let's develop, what's next?
      If you do not regulate its use, then there will be many catastrophes in the form of collisions.
      Either set aside fairways for overflight, or equip obstacle detection systems. And the pilot will have to be prepared according to both programs, both flight and sea, as a pilot and as a captain.
      1. Num lock U.A.
        0
        April 17 2012 15: 10
        Well, what's the problem? and what opportunities may well occupy a niche between the two modes of transport
        Quote: carbofo
        If you do not regulate its use, then there will be many catastrophes in the form of collisions.

        this will definitely not be a problem, officials will "regulate" it so that it will not seem a little laughing
        Quote: carbofo
        then there will be many catastrophes in the form of collisions.

        why all of a sudden?
        1. +1
          April 17 2012 16: 57
          Quote: Num Lock UA
          why all of a sudden?

          Since the river water area is not so big, and we have a lot of people who want to ride with the breeze, and the speed of the ekranoplan is more than the boat at times.
          Of course, in the event of a collision threat, you can quickly sit down and quench speed, or turn it away, but in any case, you will either have to limit the use of the weather, or put expensive radar equipment.
          Under certain conditions, you can fly above obstacles, but the failure-free behavior of such a maneuver depends on the pilot's experience.
          1. Num lock U.A.
            +1
            April 17 2012 17: 15
            Recently it became known that the border service at the FSB will begin the creation of a center for the production of ekranoplanes in Petrozavodsk

            To avoid copyright infringement, post a hyperlink to the original article: http://topwar.ru/13511-ekranoplany-na-sluzhbe-rossii-byt-ili-ne-byt.html#comment
            -id-298677


            Well, as it is implied that in the indicated service people are serious smile
            1. 0
              April 17 2012 19: 47
              Num Lock UA,

              Wait and see.
  10. Vitmir
    -1
    April 17 2012 14: 46
    It’s pointless to build large ekranoplanes - too gluttonous for fuel, too limited by weather conditions - unrest at sea, too complicated to manage and dangerous in terms of accident rate. Dead end branch. Small size for a limited area of ​​application and for its rather narrow niche - you can still, like hovercraft.
    1. 0
      April 17 2012 22: 46
      The efficiency of an ekranoplan is mainly determined by the "flight" height, which, in turn, is determined by the wing chord size and, accordingly, the overall dimensions. Thus, the more, the more effective, the less, the more limited the scope. But all this does not contradict the complete lack of understanding of what to do with it (the ekranoplan) ... It's a pity ...
    2. 0
      April 17 2012 23: 07
      The same shortcomings can be said about the aircraft carrier. BUT...
      It’s easier not to do anything, of course!
      1. Vitmir
        -1
        17 May 2012 15: 22
        Yes, all this nonsense. I repeat: fuel consumption can not be compared with airplanes / ships, a large ekranoplan - technological and economic dead end. Not figs again to ruin money on bad searchlights. There are much more urgent needs in the sun.
    3. Evgen232
      -1
      April 18 2012 00: 46
      POWDER CHARGE: also branch dead end
  11. dimks98
    +2
    April 17 2012 15: 46
    You can argue about the advantages and disadvantages of ekranoplanes for a long time, but one thing is definitely clear - they look gorgeous good
  12. +3
    April 17 2012 17: 56
    Ekranoplanes have one, but very important, advantage over all other delivery vehicles, both personnel and weapons. This is the best ratio of speed and mass of the delivered cargo. This is the advantage that military science must learn to use. And Russian designers will teach ekranoplanes to fly far, reliably and in any weather conditions, like their pilots.
  13. Kamaz
    +1
    April 17 2012 21: 02
    How could ditch WIG? This is an ideal machine of destruction, landing, rescue !!!
    Firstly, it flies below the radar and is invulnerable to mines and can easily and imperceptibly (relatively) land a landing!
    Secondly, he is able to rush to those who suffer betheski no matter where they are, whether at the equator or Antarctica with great speed!
    1. -1
      April 18 2012 11: 43
      Especially considering that it can go both by water and by land
  14. +3
    April 17 2012 21: 57
    Here is such a concept for using the An-225 - "Eaglet" bundle as a search and rescue system ... How feasible this idea is in practice, and how much it justifies itself, of course, is another question ... But the idea itself, in my opinion, is enough interesting ... smile
    1. Evgen232
      -1
      April 18 2012 00: 52
      This system looks ridiculous, because the screenplan is on top, both have healthy tails, you can’t even hook them from below.
  15. Evgen232
    0
    April 18 2012 00: 49
    Let at least a few dozen of these "monsters" be made, everything will be useful in the "household, they can be used in any weird case. They will do it, but we will not let you down."
  16. Tram_ham
    -2
    April 24 2012 13: 26
    The idea of ​​the ekranoplan is not clear. WHAT ADVANTAGES DOES THIS TYPE OF TRANSPORT HAVE ??? !!!

    He consumes fuel like an airplaneif not more
    Speed ​​- significantly lower than aircraft
    The ekranoplan can be operated only over a smooth surface, and the relief is not important for an airplane: it is necessary - we fly to the Himalayas.
  17. patriot2
    0
    6 May 2012 22: 04
    wbigfireAnd when using stealth technology, finding an ekranoplan for air defense systems will be very problematic.
  18. Kostik zaika
    0
    25 November 2014 17: 03
    In addition to many military advantages, the use of ekranoplanes in other sectors of the economy will yield huge profits. Even ordinary cargo transportation can significantly replenish the state treasury, and this is not the only direction where these wonderful machines can be used.