Military Review

Ukrainian new - well forgotten Soviet old

29
Ukrainian new - well forgotten Soviet old



The limitless patience with which we have been seeing on the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Ukrainian defense industry for almost five years is not so much the end, but laughter is gradually ending.

Observe, of course, not out of idle curiosity. The APU is, nevertheless, the closest army fighting against Russia on paper, and with the Russians in reality.

Of course, in terms of the possibilities of waging a modern war, the Armed Forces of Ukraine is a typical feudal army. Which is based on the Soviet legacy, which, in general, fell into the hands of Ukrainians, not just by chance, but rather unfairly.

Approximately the same can be said with regard to enterprises of the military-industrial complex.

And this legacy makes it possible, without producing anything, to maintain a sufficient level of equipping the current army with military equipment and ammunition for several years.

Enough to fight on equal terms with the militia of unrecognized republics. Who, frankly, the situation is even worse.

But in order to maintain a more or less intelligible parity of forces, not to mention the offensive and the liberation of the “occupied” territories, the APU are doomed to have an army significantly superior in personnel and weapons to the LDNR army.

But the fact that military equipment fails, especially if it is not fully trained fighters exploit, is not news. It’s not news that the level of training in the Armed Forces of Ukraine strongly leaves much to be desired.

For endless repairs and restoration of military equipment, the leadership of the Armed Forces of Ukraine had to reanimate and re-create the repair units and involve mobile brigades from military factories.

But it is obvious that the above measures are not enough. And we are witnessing the start of mass shipments. weapons (albeit Soviet as well) from abroad. But the problem is that the stock of old Soviet weapons, which can be given free of charge or for a penny, is not endless. Even in the world.

Of course, the sponsors of the Maidan will not leave in trouble and throw them in poverty. It's clear. But to talk about this MIC is difficult. And without enterprises that will not repair, and produce high-grade weapons, the country, as it were, should not dream of conquering any heights and implementing an aggressive policy.

The policy should be confirmed not only by words, but also by trunks.

And here in Ukraine is complete sadness.

Ukraine is not the USSR. And not even Russia. This is the USSR began a war with the T-26 and BT-7, Mosin rifle and I-16. Four years later, the T-34-85, IS-2, ISU-152, Yak-3 and La-5 were in service.

This is called military-technical progress. This is what the USSR had, what is in Russia (one should probably not list all the achievements in the military sphere, it is enough that they exist), and what is not in Ukraine.

And really want to.

I want to show my worth and shake something. Confirm, so to speak, a reputation at the international level.

Hence the attempt to create at least something from nothing.

The “modernized” Pechora complex is one of such manifestations.



In the Soviet and Russian versions, the C-125 range did not exceed 32 km, and the altitude was up to 20 km.

Ukrainians reported on performance in 40 km in range and 25 in height. Peremoga, however. After 56 years after C-125 was successfully tested in the USSR, Ukraine repeated its success.

It is not necessary to comment on how successful the modification was. She could be real. The APU in any case reported on Peremogh, there is no doubt. But the modernization of the complex, which was decommissioned in Russia at the beginning of the 90's ...

And here is the new information. And not about the air defense complex. About the new cruise missile.

Turchinov personally watched the first launch. I was pleased.

But the “new” Ukrainian cruise missile is painfully reminiscent of the Soviet RCC X-35 from the Uranus complex.



Overall, X-35 is a good product. High-quality rocket, with good performance and the ability to cause heavy damage to the ship with a displacement of up to 5 000 tons.

Still, the product was developed in 70-ies of the last century. The fact that the rocket entered service only after 20 years since the beginning of the tests ...

Turchinov hastened to publish a video of the tests and said that the designers of the Ukrainian enterprise “Luch” had fully developed the rocket in collaboration with other public and private companies.

Congratulations, of course. And with the test, and the next ... distortion of the facts?

On the power, or even more so, the superpower, until it pulls. But - nothing is impossible. The main thing - it would be the desire and opportunity.

Desires in Ukraine - at least for export. But with opportunities from year to year everything is worse.
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  1. Strashila
    Strashila 1 February 2018 15: 21
    +4
    Yes, how many such backlogs ... are scattered in the post-Soviet space ... how many Soviet technologies the Americans got in the same Ukraine.
  2. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 1 February 2018 15: 24
    15
    Very superficially, there is very little useful information in the article.
  3. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 1 February 2018 16: 23
    +4
    Normal article, but today Yuri Podolyaka posted an article more detailed in technical terms ... In any case, thank you very much Roman!
  4. CentDo
    CentDo 1 February 2018 17: 18
    10
    This USSR started the war with the T-26 and BT-7, Mosin rifle and I-16

    In fairness, the USSR began the war with the SVT-40, T-34-76 and KV-1. Yes, and in the Air Force there were far not only I-16s, there were Yaks, and MiGs, and LaGGs. Why belittle the country's pre-war arms achievements?
  5. ares1988
    ares1988 1 February 2018 18: 09
    +2
    For some reason, Roman’s syllable painfully recalls this author:
    https://kloch4.livejournal.com/43020.html
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 1 February 2018 21: 46
      +1
      Yes, solid copy-paste. The original article is even a little deeper in content.
  6. Curious
    Curious 1 February 2018 18: 17
    +4
    The article is very indicative from the point of view of psychology.
    There is such a section in psychology - social psychology. She is studying the patterns of behavior and activities of people, due to their inclusion in social groups, as well as the psychological characteristics of the groups themselves. She also considers various mechanisms for increasing self-esteem. And one of these mechanisms is self-invalidity. Using this mechanism, individuals replace self-improvement, the development of abilities and the acquisition of new knowledge and skills by searching for flaws and mistakes of others, rejoice in other people's failures.
    All this is not so harmless and ultimately leads to the transformation of personality. And not for the better.
  7. Shteffan
    Shteffan 1 February 2018 18: 49
    +9
    how much can you pour slops over neighbors ???? I’m just wondering if there weren’t Ukraine where such authors and commentators would pour their r ... apparently ??? Yes, it’s not that ...
    1. Antares
      Antares 1 February 2018 23: 51
      +3
      Quote: Steffan
      I’m just wondering if there wouldn’t be Ukraine where such authors and commentators would merge their r ... apparently ??? Yes, VO is not that ...

      Have you seen the US debt? winked Dollar Fell-America Kirdyk. The EU is breaking up, migrants raped all of Europe, China, they defeated everyone in Syria ... Trump is good, but there are no American boyars ....
      you never know what? Just Ukraine is the fattest topic. There are so many myths about the country. So much talk show. Where is there a boring public debt.
    2. Tarikxnumx
      Tarikxnumx 2 February 2018 05: 20
      10
      Exactly as much as you can talk about peerogogs, which are actually zrad. Plus, if you pay attention, then basically, local commentators rather kindly chuckle at our Nenkoy. Then how is it worth going to any Ukrainian-language resource and quietly go nuts on the amount of anger and obscenities aimed at our closest neighbors. And not only towards the Russians, but also the Poles and Belarusians, etc.
      In addition, in fact, all those tricks of Ukroboronprom that are served as mega-modern developments have never been such. Either micromodernization of old Soviet technology, or the fruits of schizophrenia, like TBTR "Navoz" and the silent rifle "Malyuk" (AKM, only with the return spring removed and the silencer screwed down).
      Forgive me, we have removed all the polymers ... and now we are trying to look like a country of high technology. That any sane person will cause an attack of homeric laughter. You know, for example, that after the first Maidan, when our confectioner president was the head of the National Security and Defense Council, Kiev was left without air defense of the district, because only pencils (sic empty missiles) and empty sealed kungs, of which ours were left from the air defense system, love friends "uprooted and sold all the electronics to colormet? And now we are telling that we have developed a new air defense system. You yourself are not funny?
      1. Mimoprohodil
        Mimoprohodil 2 February 2018 10: 52
        +1
        Quote: TarIK2017
        mostly local commentators chuckle rather kindly
        Especially kindly comment on the news about the birth rate decline in Ukraine
        1. Antares
          Antares 2 February 2018 12: 19
          +2
          Quote: Mimoprohodil
          kindly comment on the news about the decline in the birth rate in Ukraine

          Ukrainian and Russian "non-malicious" commentators — one berry field. Truth always point to each other. They say they themselves are. Even in VO "non-malignancy" is over the top, and on other resources where the mate is not controlled by moderators, one cannot read the semantic load except the obscene one. The same behavior. There is no excuse for the two sides.
          1. Aqela
            Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 07
            0
            Quote: Antares
            Quote: Mimoprohodil
            kindly comment on the news about the decline in the birth rate in Ukraine

            Ukrainian and Russian "non-malicious" commentators — one berry field. Truth always point to each other. They say they themselves are. Even in VO "non-malignancy" is over the top, and on other resources where the mate is not controlled by moderators, one cannot read the semantic load except the obscene one. The same behavior. There is no excuse for the two sides.

            Well, there’s plenty of adyots everywhere. However, my friend has not been able to communicate with his Ukrainian relatives since 2014, because they immediately call him a traitor and an invader ...
            In terms of the national, the position of Starikov N.V. is close to me - One people, different states. My friends, who have lived in the Donbass for many years, still perceive the news of the battles in the territory there as an uninterrupted nightmare ...
      2. Curious
        Curious 3 February 2018 12: 46
        +1
        You wrote everything correctly, only my comment was not about that at all.
  8. Berkut
    Berkut 1 February 2018 19: 26
    +2
    The S-200 can still work for itself if it can be used. Yugoslavs have fully demonstrated this. But the problem, wang, just with trained calculations
    1. whinny
      whinny 2 February 2018 00: 40
      +2
      Quote: Golden Eagle
      The S-200 can still work for itself if it can be used. Yugoslavs have fully demonstrated this.

      But didn’t they fill up the 117th Pechora? Just the 125th missile, if my memory serves me right. And then, Ukrainians could put GOS on it, instead of the radio command.
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 10
        0
        As I understand it, when the F-117 was blocked up, the guidance was manual. So we have a good example in front of us, that a good shooter and a “business can do” canister, but with a weapon of a higher class will act more successfully! request
  9. Berkut
    Berkut 1 February 2018 19: 32
    +2
    Quote: ares1988
    Why is Roman's syllable
    painfully recalls this author:

    https://kloch4.livejournal.com/43020.html

    This is called "similarity to a degree of confusion." And really, why?)))
  10. Robin - Bobbin
    Robin - Bobbin 1 February 2018 20: 14
    +1
    Shteffan, since when has criticism, albeit a bit biased, been called slop?
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 13
      0
      Robin Bobin Barabek! Forty people ate! belay
      Quote: Robin - Bobbin
      Shteffan, since when has criticism, albeit a bit biased, been called slop?

      Well, I think that in VO this policy started up after the abolition of negative ratings and the use of massive bans for "negativism" wassat
  11. BAI
    BAI 1 February 2018 20: 56
    +1
    Even at least something is always better than nothing.
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 15
      0
      Yeah, well, yes, especially if it leads to the mass destruction of human and material resources! As in a joke about monkeys, "what to think ?! here you have to jump !!!" fellow
  12. VOENOBOZ
    VOENOBOZ 1 February 2018 22: 25
    0
    Do not underestimate the enemy, it can go sideways. Georgians also had Soviet technical equipment, and we had to sweat.
  13. Antares
    Antares 1 February 2018 23: 45
    +5
    but the laughter ends little by little.

    come on. Where else to party to cap-takers and other "3dayKievnash", where you can gossip and compare in your favor? What is not a topic in Ukraine, there is laughter, fun, hats, gearworms, etc.
    APU is still the closest army, fighting with Russia on paper, but with the Russians in reality.

    there Russian Ukraine + help from the West are at war with Russian Ukraine + help from the Russian Federation. Both sides are stubborn and the same.
    APU is a typical feudal army

    wrong. The draft army of a poor country that has never been involved in the army but the issue has become an edge, either war or disintegration. The mechanism worked crookedly (as if the phrase from Port Arthur about the rusty Russian military machine was repeated) like ...
    The basis of which is the Soviet legacy, which, in general, fell into the hands of Ukrainians not only by chance, but rather, undeservedly.

    It fell ... well, yes .. That is the second republic after the Russian Federation in terms of value, population, scientific potential, victims and participation in all projects of the USSR .. So they lived there somewhere and not at the center of all the events of wars, losses , stresses ... fell down ... undeservedly. Ukrainians participated in the Soviet project with the same tension as the rest! Now it’s fashionable to say that Ukrainians are traitors there, that they were plotting and generally radishes .. and if something in Ukraine was good, it was from the USSR, that all the geniuses of the land of Ukraine are Soviet .. and all the villains are of course Ukrainians. Good general, bad Ukrainian.
    The wrong word fell. I got what was at the time in the country / republic. Since it was 2 in importance, it was not 2 in importance and the potential remained. (Which was successfully ruined for the Russian Federation).
    The Armed Forces of Ukraine are doomed to have an army far superior in personnel and armaments to the LDNR army.

    after a major military trade and the Nordic winds, take into account the need for even greater composition and weapons.
    Still, the product was developed in 70-ies of the last century. The fact that the rocket entered service only after 20 years since the beginning of the tests ...

    Ukraine didn’t stutter about RCC for all 25 years ... everyone thought to buy Exosets and even if they had money ... X 35 was tested successfully in 1986. There was only one missile carrier ship in the Ukrainian fleet. Ukraine perfectly managed without an army and navy all 25 years, destroying both that and another. Now not so many countries produce RCC. Clone x 35 must also be able to. And in a very poor, belligerent country, it is difficult.
    But the “new” Ukrainian cruise missile painfully resembles the Soviet anti-ship missile system X-35 from the Uranus complex

    Everywhere it was stated that it was CLONE x 35. Only Ukrainian-made. It is mentioned that even North Korea was copied. The Ukraine’s missile program is probably the rate of Ukrainians, which deserves a separate article (without gnawing and laughing). Since there is no aviation production in Ukraine (combat), the role of the “far hand” should be played by the UAV + rocket duo (my opinion). Since there are no advantages in artillery, but there are missiles.
    the rocket was completely developed by the designers of the Ukrainian enterprise Luch in collaboration with other state and private companies.


    there is no such thing. I listened to the original video (by the developers of the DP Luch in cooperation ... Ukrainian at Turchinov is worse than mine) Developer KB Luch. Manufacturer KhAZ, MS, Vizar (ZHMZ) and other Kiev, Kharkov, Zaporizhzhya enterprises. Even in the Ukrainian Wiki - an analogue of the Soviet X 35. Turchinov mentioned only "completely in Ukrainian enterprises."
    This is if it is meticulous to approach what he said and what they interpret to us what he said
    On the power, or even more so, the superpower, until it pulls. But - nothing is impossible. The main thing - it would be the desire and opportunity.

    Power-translation from Ukrainian-state. By the way, officially, the Power was under the UPR.
    Ukraine does not claim to be either super or regional. Russian partners + Kiev partners did everything for the worst consolidation of the second Russian-speaking country (having surrendered it, having arranged a business of war with its Kiev partners with the participation of Western ones) against the projects of the Russian Federation.
    War stimulates the creation of weapons. For free, 5% of GDP goes away .. peaceful life is long over.
    I will return to my thoughts. Kiev wants to have a "far hand" without aviation. Therefore, several missile programs have been deployed. Cloning of Soviet systems to Ukraine is real. Here they went this way. It is a very real way.
    1. Just a man
      Just a man 2 February 2018 12: 33
      0
      You shift a lot from a bad head to a healthy one. It has long been declared hydraulic - Ukraine is not Russia, a Muscovite for a fuss. Wanted in Europe, download under the banner of Bandera, we do not mind. Well, what Ukraine is without Russia, they all see perfectly, together with the metropolis of Moscow, development from Ukraine has also gone.
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 19
        0
        I agree with the objection. If it were not for Bandera obscurantism and the chocolate president, who has factories in the "aggressor country", then the reasoning would make sense. However, the position of "three-day-Kiev-ours" also somehow does not shine with the mind ... sad
  14. rkpu97
    rkpu97 2 February 2018 11: 46
    0
    A little help. Full-scale development of anti-ship missiles X-35 began after the decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 222-90 dated 16.03.1983. Although sluggish work on this project was carried out earlier. For example, the first conceptual proposals for the GOS project for a rocket were developed back in 1981.
  15. Fitter65
    Fitter65 2 February 2018 14: 32
    0
    It was the USSR that started the war with the T-26 and BT-7, the Mosin rifle and the I-16. And four years later, the T-34-85, IS-2, ISU-152, Yak-3 and La-5 were in service.

    According to some T-34 data, 1941 were released at the end of June 1066, according to other sources, for the first half of 1110, according to the third, 1.06.1941 tanks were already in the troops as of July 1225, 489. KV tanks of various modifications, according to some data, were delivered to the troops 1.061941 , according to others, it was released on 636 26 (released and delivered are of course different concepts). That is, even by these small numbers we see that in addition to the T-2 and BT-5/7/XNUMX in the Red Army there were cars that were not in the Wehrmacht of rivals .
    At the end of 1941, 1332 Yak-1 fighters were fired in the USSR, in 1941 the aircraft industry produced 2463 LaGG-3, of which 2141 were built after June 22, 1941, the MiG-3 from December 1940, until December 1941, 3178 were released. not one I-16 (there was also I-153 by the way) Yes, the equipment was crude, not fully mastered in the army. A simple example to the future Hero of the Soviet Union, K. Kholobaev, the factory representative explained which of the guns on the IL-2 to use this or that type of weapons, and this is a few minutes before take-off for a combat sortie with suspended ammunition and a running engine !!!!
    And the Yak-9U and La-7 and the Is-3 and T-44 were already in service, though they didn’t have time for war ....
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 7 February 2018 23: 24
      0
      Plus, a serious reorganization of the structure and activities of the Red Army. I suppose it’s not a secret that the mass of the same tanks is lost “simply” due to poor logistical support? what And the mass of losses during the Second World War is connected not with the clear superiority of German weapons, but with defects in the use of completely suitable Soviet weapons ... sad