Military Review

How and who repressed under Stalin. The CIA called the number of victims of repression

259
Joseph Stalin died 65 years ago, but his personality and the policies he pursues are still the subject of fierce debate by historians, politicians, and ordinary inhabitants. The scale and ambiguity of this historical the figures are so large that so far the attitude to Stalin and the Stalin era for some citizens of our country is a kind of indicator that determines the political and social position.




One of the darkest and most tragic pages in the history of the country is political repression, the peak of which occurred at the 1930-s - the beginning of the 1940-s. It is the repressive policy of the Soviet state during the years of Stalin's rule that is one of the main arguments of the opponents of Stalinism. Indeed, on the other side of the coin - industrialization, the construction of new cities and enterprises, the development of transport infrastructure, the strengthening of the armed forces and the formation of the classical model of education, which still works “by inertia” and is one of the best in the world. But collectivization, the deportation of entire nations to Kazakhstan and Central Asia, the extermination of political opponents and opponents, as well as random people assigned to them, excessive rigidity to the country's population - this is another part of the Stalin era, which also cannot be erased from people's memory.

However, recently there have been more and more publications that the scale and nature of political repression in the years of I.V. Stalin were greatly exaggerated. Interestingly, not so long ago, this position was voiced, it seemed by those who were in no way interested in “whitewashing” Joseph Vissarionovich - by employees of the US CIA think tank. By the way, it was in the United States that Alexander Solzhenitsyn lived in exile in his time - the main exposer of Stalinist repression, and it is to him that the frightening numbers belong - the 70 of the millions repressed. The analytical center of the CIA of the USA “Rand Corporation” counted the number of repressed during the years of the rule of the Soviet leader and several different figures were obtained - about 700 thousand people. Maybe the scale of the repressions was even greater, but obviously not as much as the followers of Solzhenitsyn say. How and who repressed under Stalin. The CIA called the number of victims of repression

The international human rights organization Memorial claims that the victims of Stalinist repression were from 11-12 million to 38-39 million people. The scatter, as we see, is very large. Yet 38 million in 3,5 is more than 11 million times. Memorial refers to victims of Stalinist repression: 4,5-4,8 million political convicts, 6,5 million deported from 1920 of the year, about 4 million deprived of electoral rights according to the Constitution of 1918 of the year and 1925 of the year, about 400-500 of thousands of repressed based on the series decrees, 6-7 million dead from starvation in 1932-1933, 17,9 thousand victims of labor decrees.

As we see, the concept of “victim of political repression” in this case is expanding to the maximum. But political repression is nevertheless concrete action aimed at the arrest, imprisonment or physical destruction of dissidents or suspects in dissent. Is it possible to refer to the victims of political repression of the dead from starvation? Especially, if we take into account that at that difficult time most of the world's population was starving. Millions of people died in the African and Asian colonies of European powers, and in the "prosperous" United States of America, it was not for nothing that these years were called the Great Depression.

Go ahead. Another 4 million people were deprived of the right to vote in the Stalin period. However, can a defeat in rights be regarded as a full-fledged political repression? In this case, the multi-million African-American population of the United States, in the first half of the twentieth century, not only not having voting rights, but also segregated on a racial basis, is also the victim of political repression by Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, and other American presidents. That is, approximately 10-12 of millions of people among those assigned by Memorial to the victims of repression are already in doubt. The sacrifices of time — yes, not always a well-thought-out economic policy — yes, but not targeted political repression.

If we take the question strictly, then directly victims of political repression can be called only those convicted under “political” articles and sentenced to death or certain terms of imprisonment. And here the fun begins. Not only “politicians”, but also many real criminals who were convicted of ordinary criminal offenses or who, for certain reasons (not given a card debt, for example) were classified as repressed, were subject to repression by initiating a new “political” article from criminals to political. Natan Sharansky, a former Soviet dissident, writes in his memoirs about such a story, which had already taken place during the “Brezhnevskiy” time - an ordinary criminal was sitting with him, who, in order not to answer to other prisoners for card debt, specially scattered anti-Soviet leaflets in the barracks. Of course, such cases were not isolated.

To understand who can be classified as politically repressed, it is necessary to take a closer look at the Soviet criminal law 1920-1950-s - what it was, to whom the most stringent measures could be applied and who could, and who could not become a victim firing »articles of the criminal code.

Attorney Vladimir Postanuk notes that when the Criminal Code of the RSFSR was adopted in 1922, the 21 article of the main criminal law of the Soviet republic emphasized that in order to combat the most serious types of crimes threatening the foundations of the Soviet government and the Soviet system, shooting is applied.

For what crimes under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, other union republics was the death penalty imposed in the Stalin years (1923-1953)? Could you have sentenced to death under the 58 article of the Criminal Code?

V.Postanyuk: Crimes punishable by an exceptional punishment - the death penalty - were included in the Special Part of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR. First of all, they were so-called. "Counter-revolutionary" crimes. Among the crimes for which the death penalty was relied, the criminal law of the RSFSR listed the organization for counterrevolutionary purposes of armed uprisings or an invasion of armed units or gangs into the Soviet territory, attempts to seize power (article 58 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR); intercourse with foreign states or their individual representatives in order to induce them to intervene in the affairs of the Republic; participation in an organization acting in order to commit the crimes referred to in art. 58 CC; counteracting the normal activities of state institutions and enterprises; participation in the organization or assistance of an organization acting in the direction of assistance to the international bourgeoisie; the organization for counterrevolutionary purposes of terrorist acts against representatives of the Soviet government or leaders; organization for the purpose of counterrevolutionary destruction or damage by an explosion, arson or other method of railway or other ways and means of communication, public communications, water mains, public warehouses and other structures or structures, as well as participation in the execution of these crimes (Art. 58 of the Criminal Code). The death penalty could also be obtained for actively opposing the revolutionary and workers' movement while serving in responsible or especially secret positions in tsarist Russia and from counter-revolutionary governments during the Civil War. Followed the death penalty for organizing gangs and gangs and participation in them, for counterfeiting by collusion of persons, for a number of official misconduct. For example, article 112 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR emphasized that execution may be ordered for abuse of power, excess of power or inaction and neglect, followed by the collapse of the managed structure. Assignment and embezzlement of state values, the judge pronouncing an unjust sentence, receiving a bribe under aggravating circumstances - all of these crimes could also be punished up to the death penalty.

Could they have shot minors in the Stalin period and for what crimes? Have such examples?

V. Postanuk: During its validity period, the code has been repeatedly amended. In particular, they extended to the issues of criminal responsibility of minors and were related to the mitigation of liability measures that could be applied to juvenile offenders. The rules on punishment also changed: the use of execution was prohibited for minors and pregnant women, short-term imprisonment was introduced for a term of 1 month (Law of 10 July 1923 of the year), and later for a term of 7 days (Law of 16 of October 1924) .

In 1935, the famous Ordinance On Measures to Combat Juvenile Crime was adopted. According to this decree, minors older than 12 have been allowed to be held criminally liable for theft, violence and bodily harm, injury, murder or attempted murder. The resolution stated that all criminal penalties could be applied to juvenile offenders older than 12 years. This wording, which did not differ in clarity, gave rise to the emergence of numerous allegations of the shooting of children in the Soviet Union. But these statements, at least from a legal point of view, are not true. After all, the rule about the impossibility of appointing the death penalty to persons under the age of 18, contained in Art. 13 Basic began in Art. 22 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR was never abolished.


Is there not a single case of execution of juveniles in the Soviet Union?

V. Postanuk: There was such a case. And this is the only reliably known case of a teenager being shot during the Soviet era. 15-year-old Arkady Neyland was shot 11 August 1964. As you can see, this is far from Stalin's time. Neyland was the first and only juvenile officially sentenced by the Soviet court to the death penalty - execution. The guilt of this criminal was that he killed a woman and her three-year-old son with an ax. The petition for clemency of the teenager was rejected, and Nikita Khrushchev himself spoke out in support of the death penalty.

Thus, we see that the Soviet criminal legislation did provide for the death penalty under the “anti-Soviet” 58 article. However, as the lawyer noted in his interview, among the "firing" anti-Soviet acts were crimes that would be called terrorist in our time. For example, one can hardly be called a “prisoner of conscience” of a person who organized sabotage on the railroad tracks. As for the use of the shooting as the death penalty against corrupt officials, this practice still exists in several countries around the world, for example, in China. In the Soviet Union, the death penalty was seen as a temporary and exclusive, but effective measure to combat crime and against the enemies of the Soviet state.



If we talk about the victims of political repression, then a large part of those convicted under the anti-Soviet article were precisely saboteurs, spies, organizers and members of armed and underground groups and organizations acting against Soviet power. Suffice it to recall that in 1920-1930-s the country was in a hostile environment, the situation was not very stable in a number of regions of the Soviet Union. For example, in Central Asia, certain Basmach groups continued to resist Soviet power in the 1930s.

Finally, do not miss another very interesting nuance. A significant part of the Soviet citizens repressed under Stalin were responsible officials of the party and the Soviet state, including law enforcement and security agencies. If we analyze the lists of top leaders of the NKVD of the USSR at the union and republican level in 1930-s, then most of them were later shot themselves. This indicates that tough measures were applied not only to political opponents of the Soviet government, but also, to a much greater extent, to its representatives themselves, guilty of abuses of authority, corruption or any other official crimes.
Author:
259 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 1 February 2018 06: 43
    36
    Ohhhh, yes the "great" Solzhenitsyn is essentially a banal liar !!! fellow Business then - multiply the number by a dozen and you get a bloody regime. And then present on a saucer with a border in the form of a couple of novels with a colorful description and voila!
    Even at school he hated Solzhenitsyn negative And now with him ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 1 February 2018 06: 44
      17
      Even at school he could not stand Solzhenitsyn’s nonsense negative And now, and with him ..

      Svani will come running now ... and hit you on the cheek ... for seditious thoughts about the bloody regime of the father of all nations. smile get ready for the fight ..
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 1 February 2018 06: 51
        +9
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        and hit you on the cheek

        "With what measure you measure, so it will be measured to you." Matthew 7: 2
        I’m not too lazy and will invest in the answer from the heart repeat
        And so - always ready angry
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        get ready for the fight ..
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 1 February 2018 09: 10
          35
          Indeed, on the other side of the coin - industrialization, the construction of new cities and enterprises, the development of transport infrastructure, the strengthening of the armed forces and the formation of the classical model of education, which still works “by inertia” and is one of the best in the world.
          Education, or rather what is left of it, has long been far from the best in the world. There really was a huge time left from the Stalin era, I would say a gigantic reserve, on which everyone from Khrushchev to Putin parasitized, but not a single ruler turned his tongue to say THANKS to comrade Stalin.
          I have two grandfathers, a cousin and great-grandfather were repressed, my grandfather spent 15 years in Kolyma, and my great-grandfather disappeared where it is not known, but neither the grandmother who survived the famine and the occupation, nor the grandfather who went through two wars, nor the cousin who served time, about Stalin they didn’t say bad words in life. So let suffocate from your own anger, all sorts of premature "whistleblowers of the Stalin cult", ordinary people really loved their LEADER and cried sincerely when he was gone!
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 1 February 2018 15: 38
            +5
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            I have two grandfathers, a cousin and great-grandfather were repressed, my grandfather spent 15 years in Kolyma, and my great-grandfather passed away is not known where, but not the grandmother who survived the famine and

            And what, Glory to Comrade Stalin?
          2. Geronimo73
            Geronimo73 1 February 2018 16: 56
            +3
            about repressed relatives, you can contact the FSB and get copies of documents. Everything was taken into account, just like that, people did not disappear. And then some kind of strange totalitarian system - everything is under control, except for the lack of people .....
      2. captain
        captain 1 February 2018 10: 27
        +8
        Quote: Rurikovich
        Ohhhh, yes the "great" Solzhenitsyn is essentially a banal liar !!! fellow Business then - multiply the number by a dozen and you get a bloody regime. And then present on a saucer with a border in the form of a couple of novels with a colorful description and voila!
        Even at school he hated Solzhenitsyn negative And now with him ...

        Do not be lazy and read this statement in the works of Solzhenitsyn. There is such a technique; slander the author, the phrase or the meaning of the phrase is distorted in order to slander the author. What the author successfully does.
        1. nov_tech.vrn
          nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 11: 15
          13
          “One day of Ivan Denisovich” came across to me somewhere in the early 70s, was published, in some kind of thick journal, everything else that he mastered, was read by adults, including the “Gulag Archipelago”. After the collapse of the USSR, the "writer" got acquainted with the "creativity" according to the principle - you need to know the enemy, "and you yourself, by the way, read everything - captain?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 1 February 2018 11: 51
            +5
            Quote: nov_tech.vrn
            “One Day Ivan Denisovich” came across to me somewhere in the early 70's, was published in some kind of thick magazine

            It was published in Roman-Gazeta, everyone was delighted, in the sense of being stunned, read with interest. The authors wanted to submit to the State Prize, Tvardovsky himself highly appreciated.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 1 February 2018 16: 02
              +3
              Quote: bober1982
              It was published in Roman-Gazeta; everyone was delighted, in the sense of being stunned, read with interest.

              Roman-Gazeta is already a reprint. The first story was published by the New World magazine, whose chief editor was Twardowski.
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 1 February 2018 17: 08
                +1
                Yes, Twardowski was the first to print (specify), I read it in Roman Gazeta, recalled in memory.
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 1 February 2018 14: 06
          24
          Solzhenitsyn, it's hard to slander. To write anti-Soviet, to the officer, during the hostilities, knowing that all letters are read, it is consciously to ask for the bunk so that they would not be killed at the front. What, to call it and what can be added, even to his portrait? To write all this to his friends (seemingly) and not to understand that he substitutes them, how to qualify this? What else can be said about the author of the "Archipelago ...", what was in the "camp pri.urki" zone? Knowledgeable people say that there are solid informers. But we will not slander)), the Nobel laureate, the first two questions are enough.
          1. Captain45
            Captain45 3 February 2018 09: 46
            +2
            Quote: avva2012
            What else can be said about the author of the "Archipelago ...", what was in the "camp pri.urki" zone? Knowledgeable people say that there are solid snitch.

            The most famous “feat” of Solzhenitsyn-informer is the so-called “Ekibastuz denunciation”, which helped the authorities brutally suppress the uprising of Ukrainian nationalists at the camp in Ekibastuz (Kazakhstan). Since socialism is accounting and control, all the papers that have ever been in the archives of state security were carefully preserved there (and are still preserved). The document, which allows keeping the Nobel laureate and the conscience of the Russian nation on a good hook, is already very good. Moreover, the KGB documentary wisely decided not to keep it and not publicly disclose it (the first is ineffective, the second looks like a provocation). The good uncles from the Committee allowed two journalists to get acquainted with it and copy to two Czechs - Czech Tomasz Rzhezach (this one seems to be from the Eastern Bloc) and German Frank Arnau (the representative of a potential adversary from the NATO bloc). Both the one and the other did not fail to take advantage of the KGB's generous gift.
            And here is a link to the whole article: http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/5419/. You can read to anyone interested. Here is another interesting article: http://www.imperiyanews.ru/details/ec6ce497-bb3a-
            4648-9286-222461c87d7b
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 February 2018 07: 19
              0
              And here is a link to the whole article: http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/5419/. You can read to anyone interested. Here is another interesting article: http://www.imperiyanews.ru/details/ec6ce497-bb3a-
              4648-9286-222461c87d7b

              Thank you.
        3. Geronimo73
          Geronimo73 1 February 2018 16: 58
          +8
          what kind of "work" are you talking about? Solzhenitsyn wrote works of art and did not use any archives - about which he himself conscientiously reports in the Gulag
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 1 February 2018 17: 10
            +3
            "Archipelago ..", read? The very beginning, after the story that the convict, the prehistoric newt was devoured.
        4. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 1 February 2018 19: 04
          +3
          Quote: captain
          There is such a technique; slander the author, the phrase or the meaning of the phrase is distorted in order to slander the author. What the author successfully does.

          Yuri, believe me, to draw conclusions about the writer, you don’t need to read anyone left. It’s enough not to be too lazy. I made conclusions for myself based on my own judgments hi
        5. BAI
          BAI 1 February 2018 21: 17
          +8
          There is such a technique; slander the author, the phrase or the meaning of the phrase is distorted in order to slander the author

          slander the "great genius" can only he:
          The writer tells very interestingly about the period of his stay at the Lubyanka in February 1945: “Ah, well, sweet life! Chess, books, spring beds, down pillows, solid mattresses, shiny linoleum, clean linen. Yes, I have long forgotten that I also slept like this before the war. Grated parquet floor. Almost four steps can be taken in a walk from window to door. No, seriously, this central political prison is a real resort ... I remembered the crude slush near Vordmit, where they arrested me and where ours are wandering now, drowning in mud and snow to cut off the Germans' exit from the boiler. Damn it, you don’t want me to fight, but don’t. ”

    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 February 2018 07: 36
      11
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Ohhhh, yes the "great" Solzhenitsyn is essentially a banal liar !!! Business then - multiply the number by a dozen and you get a bloody regime.

      ARCHIVES had to be opened, not hidden, under the heading “Sov. Secret,” in the newspapers in 1937–38 write lists of about 1900 people executed every day, print the number of millions of exiled peasants in newspapers, and the number of millions who died of starvation in newspapers, at the congresses -and there would be no extra figures. WHO interfered? Were you afraid? They were rightly afraid: no one would have accepted it.
      Judging by the owls of the press and the speeches of the leaders, THERE WAS NOTHING! At all!fool
      1. venaya
        venaya 1 February 2018 08: 05
        26
        Quote: Olgovich
        .. WHO is in the way? Were you afraid? They were rightly afraid: no one would have accepted it. Judging by the owls of the press and the speeches of the leaders - THERE WAS NOTHING! Generally!

        Across the world, they are still afraid to tell the truth. For example, during the period of the Great Depression in the USA, the population decreased to 12 million people (infa from independent experts from the USA), and in our USSR during the period 1937-1938, the population increased by 6 million people. Why are they still silent about this? Apparently afraid and very much afraid, hence the total silence about these facts.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 09: 52
          +7
          Quote: venaya
          Across the world, they are still afraid to tell the truth. For example, during the period of the Great Depression in the USA, the population decreased to 12 million people (infa from independent experts from the USA),

          Even concurrent propagandists did not write this nonsense. There is no such figure. Give acts of starvation deaths, cemeteries of starvation (in Novorossia they will be shown to you), reports from the FBI, newspapers, testimonies. and so on What no? Then it is not accepted.
          Yes, according to the report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in the -30s, Americans ate SEVERAL TIMES more and better than the USSR.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 1 February 2018 11: 40
            +8
            Quote: Olgovich Today, 09: 52 in -30x the Americans ate SEVERAL TIMES more and better than the USSR.
            Quote: Olgovich 26 January 2018 10: 16 And ​​Americans ate several times better in 30 than we did.
            In the training manual bookmark to the page stuck?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 15
              +6
              Quote: avva2012
              Quote: Olgovich Today, 09: 52 in -30x the Americans ate SEVERAL TIMES more and better than the USSR.
              Quote: Olgovich 26 January 2018 10: 16 And ​​Americans ate several times better in 30 than we did.
              In the training manual bookmark to the page stuck ?.

              You ATTENTION OUTLINE my works (or rather bribe by heart) -and there will be no such questions. yes hi
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 1 February 2018 13: 24
                +8
                Why cram, I have a good memory. Well, and you, as always, did not answer the question. Rather, they answered, "the bookmark is still stuck."
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 37
                  +5
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Well, and you, as always, did not answer the question.

                  Well, how, how:
                  ATTENTIVELY outline-and the like Issues-will not be
                  .
                  hi
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 1 February 2018 15: 18
                    11
                    True? You, today, are very ironic, but, nevertheless, unfasten the bookmark and ask for new literature, but one thing is because "they ate everyone, they killed everyone." Look at like-minded people, at least, for a lieutenant, it does not work as standard, it even gave a link to a "red" site. And you? Strained attempts to anger the interlocutor, and the repetition of the same sentences. Ps perhaps you do this so you yourself do not forget? Then, there are mnemonics, nootropics.
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 27
                      +4
                      Quote: avva2012
                      repetition of the same sentences


                      but what's wrong with that, by the way, if they are true? First they demanded from Olgovich ten times to give the same link, sometimes they accuse him of “repeating”. Directly you will not please.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 1 February 2018 16: 02
                        +7
                        Are they demanding something from Olgovich? Yes, okay, I also have a source. Maybe, of course, for you, he is the source of something, but personally, I think he does a lot of good on the basis of anti-Sovietism. The image is, to put it mildly, anecdotal. God forbid having such an ally, he will lower the whole idea below the plinth. Apparently fulfilling his party past, since, then, he also worked against the communist idea. True, he himself thought that for. Such a man, a disaster.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 February 2018 16: 40
                      +3
                      Quote: avva2012
                      but one thing, yes, because "everyone ateall were killed. "

                      IN RUSSIAN, if you please, your nicknames are not always clear. request
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Strained attempts piss off interlocutor

                      Smile, that's what I want! yes
                      Quote: avva2012
                      yes repetition of the same sentences.

                      You will find FIVE differences — how are you so inconsiderate? request
                      Quote: avva2012
                      ps maybe you do it to do not forget yourself? [b] [/ b]

                      Nope, restoring some memory! hi
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 1 February 2018 17: 17
                        +5
                        This is not memory, this is confabulation.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 09: 24
                      0
                      Quote: avva2012
                      This is not memory, this is confabulation.

                      Sorry that your memory is not called that. lol
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 2 February 2018 14: 52
                        +2
                        As always, brilliantly humor wink , almost like Petrosyan, maybe even better. So I'm sorry. smile
          2. BAI
            BAI 1 February 2018 21: 27
            +5
            The Americans looked forward 80 years, directly specifically for this occasion:
            See US Statistical Site. Take 1932: "The Statistical Report for 1932 was not compiled."

            cemeteries of the dead from starvation (in New Russia they will be shown to you)

            There are no mass graves in the USA. The mentality of this. Arlington Memorial.
            And so I already wrote - a very good position - to simply deny everything that does not suit.
          3. Alf
            Alf 1 February 2018 22: 14
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            Yes, according to the report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in the -30s, Americans ate SEVERAL TIMES more and better than the USSR.

            True, not all.
      2. apro
        apro 1 February 2018 08: 33
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        ARCHIVES had to be opened

        What is stopping now?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 10: 11
          +6
          Quote: apro
          Quote: Olgovich
          ARCHIVES had to be opened

          What is stopping now?

          Never mind!
          It is necessary that a reputable state institution open, count and under state authority posted ALL the numbers: how much, whom and for what, how much rehabilitated. ALL! -And stop the bickering.
          And EVALUATION-assessment let EVERYONE -in the power of education and knowledge
          1. apro
            apro 1 February 2018 11: 46
            +5
            Olgovich. Authoritative is that? Each institution of the state protects the ruling class in the state. Who owns the property and the right to set prices and use incomes. Do they need to tell the truth about the state of the whole people. Did they open a power center? And they explained everything popularly. History is also a girl quite honest. if you get the question right ....
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 21
              +4
              Quote: apro
              Olgovich. Authoritative is that? Each institution of the state protects the ruling class in the state. owned property

              ARCHIVES-to whom belong? Scientists - to whom belong? Historical Institutes - also state ones.
              They must give an authoritative, state opinion.
      3. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 1 February 2018 09: 17
        29
        Olgovich Today, 07: 36 ↑
        ARCHIVES had to be opened, not hidden, under the heading “Sov. Secret”, in the newspapers in 1937–38 write lists of about 1900 people executed every day
        Why not 19 million a day? Why is it so modest? Do not hesitate to write, the monitor is like paper and does not tolerate it.
        1900 people * 365 days = 693500 people in year. This figure is very similar to the truth with one LITTLE reservation, according to the report provided to Khrushchov, exactly so many were shot during ALL the years of Joseph Stalin’s rule, including criminals, Nazi minions of all stripes, including policemen, Vlasovites, Bandera’s and other rabble, counterrevolutionary element, sabotage and ardent enemies of the Soviet regime, such as you Olgovich.
        To tell you frankly, you, the neo-lieutenant Teterin, Russ, a soldier, a captain and other anti-Soviet element, as well as all the liberals, and in fact the open enemies of Russia, I would now put to the wall and shoot in an osprey without trial and investigation and would be right a thousand times, and the people would say thank you very much.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 10: 05
          +6
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Why not 19 million a day? Why is it so modest? Do not hesitate to write, the monitor is like paper and does not tolerate it.

          Zechem? I’m NOT YOU! yes[/ thumb]
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          1900 people * 365 days = 693500 people in year. This figure is very similar to the truth.
          Count:
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          To tell you frankly, you, the neo-lieutenant Teterin, Russ, soldier, captain and other anti-Soviet element, as well as all the liberals, and in fact the open enemies of Russia, I would now put and shoot to the wall would be in a crowd without trial and would be right a thousand times, and the people would say thank you very much.

          Therefore, you and the bankrupts who have requested the party, country, people, army, economy, that is, ALL.
          Therefore, you and you can’t shoot, “SORRY a bird” (C) lol hi
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 1 February 2018 11: 17
            +8
            Quote: Olgovich
            Count:

            681 692 / 730 = 933 execution per day according to 58-th article for 1937-38 gg. Where is 1900?

            A descendant of the Great Russian Peasants (C), a faithful servant of the CPSU, he cannot count. Just think the little things ...
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 11: 39
              +6
              Quote: Alex_59
              681 692/730 = 933 executions per day according to the 58th article for 1937-38. Where is 1900?

              You need to know the HISTORY of our Motherland: executions took place from SEPTEMBER 1937 to SEPTEMBER 1938. Got it? Yes?
              Then, take it! yes lol
              Quote: Alex_59
              Descendant of the Great Russian Peasants

              Clever, that outlined! yes
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 1 February 2018 11: 55
                11
                The descendant of the Great Russian Peasants (C) still does not know how to formulate thoughts correctly:
                in 1937-38 r write lists of executed every day about 1900 people

                Quote: Olgovich
                executions went from SEPTEMBER 1937 to SEPTEMBER 1938.

                That is, you say that only from September 37 to September of 38 were shot every day on 1900 people? Clear. Then 1900 x 365 = 693 500 people
                In just two calendar years, 37 and 38 were shot at 681 692 people according to the certificate. Considering this data reliable, we’ll try to find out if there were shootings outside the specified (from September to September 37-38) period? To do this, we subtract from the total number of people shot in two years the number of people shot from September to September. 681692 - 693500 = -11808 people (minus 11808 people).

                What can I say. This new word is not only in historical science, but also in mathematics. It remains only to once again brand the Stalinist regime for the fact that he not only managed to shoot 693500 people from September of the 37 to September of the 38, but also from January to September of the 37 and from September to December of the 38 carried out the shooting of another "minus 11808" people. What is the "minus 11808" person I find it difficult to explain. Perhaps, since this is the opposite of death, the NKVD officers probably gave birth to these 11808 people.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 26
                  +5
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Descendant of the Great Russian Peasants (C):

                  Smart again! good
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  That is, you say that only from September 37th to September 38th, 1900 people were shot every day?

                  here is NOT smart request : read ONCE AGAIN:
                  about 1900 people
                  и
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  what can I say

                  Sometimes it's better to be silent, don't you? hi
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 1 February 2018 14: 03
                    +8
                    read ONCE AGAIN:
                    about 1900 people
                    и

                    But really, what is soared there, always write NEARBY. About a billion shot by Stalin, for example. Some repressed there, a hundred there, a hundred here.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Smart again!

                    Yes, I am like this. Envy silently.

                    That's how people are pressed on consciousness. Around 1900 people were shot daily! That’s what they remember. For some reason they don’t remember, for example, the number of people executed in 1949-1950. Even so, for balance. Only one figure is important, only in the two most savory years. This once again confirms that the most ardent fighters with the regime are fiery Komsomol members of the past. They were told from childhood that the end justifies the means, and so they are still acting, only now in the opposite direction. What needs to be strengthened, what is not necessary - to be silent.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 32
                      +4
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      And really about

                      Be careful! yes
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Yes, I am like this. Envy silently.

                      Good!. yes
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      . Only one figure is important, only in the two most savory years.

                      for ONE year: a decent regional center was shot every day, without war, without anything ...
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      what is not necessary - to be silent.

                      No silence, where are they?
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 1 February 2018 16: 10
                        +5
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        No silence, where are they?

                        Duck is where you want my attention for example. At first, how did you write? Here:
                        in newspapers in 1937-38 r write lists of people shot every day about 1900 people
                        From what has been read, any uninitiated may have the opinion that for two years 1900 people were killed daily. After all, not a word is said about what you mean, in fact, not two calendar years, but the period from 09.37 to 09.38 - that is, it is really ONE year. Here is the default - you have been silent about the fact that 1900 is daily during the YEAR.
                        And this is a typical situation for you. Take and hang hunger and crop failure on the authorities as a deliberate action to destroy people. Although it is clear to any normal person that crop failures occur regardless of politics, and hunger may not be the result of deliberate extermination of people, but of error and stupidity.
                        You also pass the reduction in the share of the rural population for the deliberate extermination by the Bolsheviks of collective farmers, although this is a global process of urbanization and the transition from an agrarian society to an industrial one.
                        And so on.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 February 2018 16: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      From what has been read, any uninitiated may have the opinion that for two years 1900 people were killed daily. After all, not a word is said about what you mean, in fact, not two calendar years, but the period from 09.37 to 09.38 - that is, it is really ONE year. Here is the default - you have been silent about the fact that 1900 is daily during the YEAR.

                      Not default, but calculation- to your KNOWLEDGE (sorry-overestimated) hi
                      Moreover, this has already been discussed recently.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      And this is a typical situation for you. Take and hang hunger and crop failure on power as intentional actions to destroy people.

                      Intentionally -NOT it was, it is a fact. There was UNABILITY and ADVENTURISM, the consequences — less terrible from this — do not become.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Although it is clear to any normal person that crop failures occur regardless of politics, and hunger may not be the result of deliberate extermination of people, but of error and stupidity.

                      NARROJUCHES HAPPENED, BUT CANOGAS AND CORRUPNESSES IN RUSSIA-never did not have.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Reducing the share of the rural population you also pass for intentional extermination by the Bolsheviks of collective farmers, although this is a global process of urbanization and the transition from an agrarian society to an industrial one.

                      Not intentional, but no less terrible from this: WHO will populate Siberia and the Far East? This could only be done by PEASANTS whom you ....
                      Remember: in the West, urbanization was still a hundred years ago at a density 263 h / km2, with us at a density of 9 h / km2. What did the desert expanses mean with crowded neighbors.
                      etc.
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 2 February 2018 10: 11
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Not default, but calculation - on your KNOWLEDGE

                        Well now, then of course you expose the situation in that light. And what else do you do when your intentional manipulations are uncovered?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHO will populate Siberia and the Far East?

                        Why populate it? I strongly do not understand. Why exactly Siberia? Let's populate Antarctica too. If you see in this economic feasibility and the ability to make good money, then you populate. The rest, I think, will not take such risky steps and will remain to grow bread in the Kuban. Perhaps you will be able to compete with them by creating a successful agricultural enterprise in the Siberian snowy taiga or in the swamps of the tundra. Act, stop talking and moaning!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        in the West, urbanization was still a hundred years ago

                        In the West, yes. And with us, no. Because the tsarist government enchantingly missed how the Western countries began the transition to the industrial era. The gap turned out to be so great that tsarist Russia led itself into an economic and then political impasse, did not overpower the REV and WWI, which logically ended in a revolution. And now Stalin is to blame for the fact that he was forced to force the country into the industrial era for some 15 years (instead of 100-200 as in the West), after more than a hundred years before which it was not clear what his predecessors were doing. Poorly? Poorly. The only question is what prevented his predecessors from doing the same thing gradually, without casualties, without camps, without scumbags?
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 11: 27
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Well now, then of course you expose the situation in that light.

                      The theme is pretty battered and famous request
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Why populate it? I strongly do not understand. Why exactly Siberia? Let's populate Antarctica too. If you see in this economic feasibility and the ability to make good money, then you populate.

                      Not Russians will populate, so the Chinese. Arabs. Who else do you like? This is normal? This is our overpopulated world - someone will be. And they will find both expediency and profit-in Siberia, their -GOOM! No people
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      The gap turned out to be so large that tsarist Russia led itself into an economic and then a political impasse, not overpowered by the REV and WWI

                      You are hopelessly illiterate: the growth rate in Russia is not lower than in the USSR, wars are not lost.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      And now Stalin is to blame for the fact that he was forced forcefully drive the country into the industrial era in some 15 years (instead of 100-200 like in the West), after more than a hundred years before it was unclear what his predecessors were doing

                      NOBODY asked for it and did not force it and did NOT entrust it. None. You can’t do it differently (and he didn’t know, hence the catastrophe of hunger, evictions, etc.) - DO NOT TAKE, there will be people without you, like ALWAYS were in our 1000-year history.
                      As it was throughout the world.
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 2 February 2018 12: 08
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the growth rate in Russia is not lower than in the USSR

                        Well, how many tanks or aircraft engines were released in the wildly growing RI over the years of WWI? Especially against the backdrop of our allies and opponents. "About 1900" probably, right?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Oyna are not lost.

                        To give half of Sakhalin and drown almost the entire fleet is a fierce victory! good
          2. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 1 February 2018 11: 28
            14
            You can put your fake pussies in a straw and shove yourself know where ... laughing
            For me, the ideal is Comrade Stalin, who created the most powerful superpower, and for you, the idol is Nikolashka, the bloody one who has blasted everything that is possible. I am for a great and strong Russia, and you are for its collapse, so who are you after that? That's right, scoundrel, LIAR and traitor ...
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 11: 56
              +5
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              You can put your fake pussies in a straw and shove yourself know where.

              So you ... will be PAINFUL ?! belay request Yes, and I - "not cut" the fly ... yes laughing
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              For me, the ideal is Comrade Stalin, who created the most powerful superpower, and for you, the idol is Nikolashka, the bloody one who has blasted everything that is possible.

              Under Nikolai, the Russian people grew up over 22 years 50 FIFTY!)%. Moreover, the people were full of strength, talent, young.
              Under the Bolsheviks for those same 22 years, he grew up already ... on 17%, and since 1964
              year-started die out, aged and torn.
              You like it, huh ?.
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              I am for a great and strong Russia,
              A regime that existed for 70 years and self-collapsed WITHOUT war, WITHOUT a cactastroph, with TOTAL indifference 18 million "hot hearts" lol and all the people, this is NOT relevant.
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              and you for her collapse,

              belay fool lol
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              laughing That's right, scoundrel, LIAR and traitor ...

              lol
            2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Arikkhab
            Arikkhab 1 February 2018 12: 46
            0
            https://imhoclub.by/ru/material/arhivi_streljajut
          4. Sergey Medvedev
            Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 14: 18
            +7
            Quote: Olgovich
            Count:

            I read it first. It says "convicted" and not "shot." A big difference.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 1 February 2018 14: 56
              +4
              It says that sentenced to VMN for 1937-38 681 692 people. The most massive executions took about 12 months. That is, on average, more than 1800 people. in a day.
          5. Spnsr
            Spnsr 1 February 2018 14: 19
            +2
            Or maybe the same thing, just a little different? :
        2. Looking for
          Looking for 1 February 2018 23: 52
          +1
          I would also stand in the ranks of the firing squad.
      4. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 February 2018 10: 08
        +6
        "in the newspapers in 1937-38 write lists of about 1900 people executed every day" //////

        Of course. Lists were published in central and district newspapers
        the executed. Proud of it, regions and districts competed - who better plan
        will fulfill. The orders for the "enemies of the people" descended from above. And in the areas
        there were real bacchanalia of executions and arrests.

        Grandfather said: in a town in the North Caucasus, a multi-story "Stalin's House" was built.
        They called it the house of engineers. Several hundred people settled. Doctors, agronomists, engineers. With families.
        During 1937-38, ALL residents were arrested and many were shot. And their wives are planted, and the children
        sent to orphanages. And the arrests in this town were not only in this house, of course.
        It was just that there were few people with university education - everything was in sight. Kogga the hard worker disappeared - no one
        did not notice. When the doctor disappeared, they noticed right away.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 12: 16
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Of course. Lists were published in central and district newspapers
          the executed.

          Well, you didn’t have this at all: Nobody printed anything! Orders 0047 (kulak operation and and No. (Polish operation) -top secret. There were only the names of the defendants in the so-called "Moscow Processes" -Nakhamkins, Tukhachevsky, etc. .
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Proud of it, regions and districts competed - who better plan
          will fulfill. The orders for the "enemies of the people" descended from above. And in the areas
          there were real bacchanalia of executions and arrests.

          Proud and competed, yes, but NOT in public!
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Grandfather said: in a town in the North Caucasus, a multi-story "Stalin's House" was built.

          Yes, they told me that in 37-38 there was a horror of suspense - no one understood anything: how, where and why yesterday's friends and relatives disappear.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 3 February 2018 06: 57
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Of course. Lists were published in central and district newspapers
            the executed.

            Well, you didn’t have this at all: Nobody printed anything! Orders 0047 (kulak operation and and No. (Polish operation) -top secret. There were only the names of the defendants in the so-called "Moscow Processes" -Nakhamkins, Tukhachevsky, etc. .
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Proud of it, regions and districts competed - who better plan
            will fulfill. The orders for the "enemies of the people" descended from above. And in the areas
            there were real bacchanalia of executions and arrests.

            Proud and competed, yes, but NOT in public!
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Grandfather said: in a town in the North Caucasus, a multi-story "Stalin's House" was built.

            Yes, they told me that in 37-38 there was a horror of suspense - no one understood anything: how, where and why yesterday's friends and relatives disappear.

            AT LAST! So two loneliness met and sang a duet! And what happened in the 90s? Is it not the repression of the whole country. WHOM did the elcinoids repress? WORKERS, employees of research institutes, soldiers and officers, small cities of Russia, villages and villages, collective farms and state farms. Without any ships, just all. That’s why you should often remember which industries died, how the birth rate went down, and the death rate went up. There has never been such repression anywhere.
            Although, here is Bartholomew’s night, and the Inquisition, and the genocide of the Indians and the opium wars -----, also repressions
        2. Berkut
          Berkut 1 February 2018 20: 28
          +2
          When I, a simple-minded student, asked my grandfather, a physicist who had 2 Stalin Prizes for participating in the atomic program (then there will be others different, and the title of academician), how he was not imprisoned and spanked in the 37-38th, he honestly told me answered, - By chance. Nobody needed my position, my room in a communal apartment, no one envied for work. Just NO ONE DENO WRITTEN. And in the 50s Kurchatov didn’t give up his people and sent Beria to x ... sent with attempts to “take” his people. He went to the owner and beat off. I quote in memory, but almost verbatim.
          1. Looking for
            Looking for 1 February 2018 23: 59
            +3
            Stop ringing up enough !!
      5. chenia
        chenia 1 February 2018 10: 15
        11
        Quote: Olgovich
        Judging by the owls of the press and the speeches of the leaders, THERE WAS NOTHING! At all!


        All in comparison. Yes, for 40 years (from 20 to 60) losses from repressions and famines -4-6 million. person.

        But over 27 years (from 91-to 2018) -65-70 million have already been lost.

        So maybe the repressions were carried out so that there would not be such terrible losses?
        Not taking action is a higher price and a worse crime.
        1. captain
          captain 1 February 2018 10: 51
          +7
          Quote: chenia
          Quote: Olgovich
          Judging by the owls of the press and the speeches of the leaders, THERE WAS NOTHING! At all!


          All in comparison. Yes, for 40 years (from 20 to 60) losses from repressions and famines -4-6 million. person.

          But over 27 years (from 91-to 2018) -65-70 million have already been lost.

          So maybe the repressions were carried out so that there would not be such terrible losses?
          Not taking action is a higher price and a worse crime.

          How much did we lose from 1991 to 2018? Urgently to the doctor. !!! In Russia, officially in 1990 there were 148 million people, now about 146mln. Well, why are you better than Solzhenitsyn? His words are distorted by the red-breeds, even if he lied (as many “honest” communists write, but not like you. He called numbers for the entire USSR, starting from 1918 to the beginning of the era of “the real Leninist Khrushchev” (not I said, but the newspaper True, it’s an organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU.) And you, the respected Red Breast for the Russian Federation and for only 27 years, have lied.
          1. chenia
            chenia 1 February 2018 11: 03
            +6
            Quote: captain
            And you are a respected Red Breast for the Russian Federation and in just 27 years you lied. It’s strange even for a communist.


            Ha Ha Ha Dear you are the one for whom you are giving out, or a schoolboy who has run away from lessons.
            If in 1991 the population of the USSR was 170 million as in RI for 1918 does not mean loss?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 12: 29
          +4
          Quote: chenia
          Yes, for 40 years (from 20 to 60), losses from repressions and famine are 4-6 million people.

          - Gr. war: 10 million dead
          Hunger 21-22g-5 million dead,
          -32-33 g -7 million
          hunger 47 g-1,5 million
          -600 thousand repressed peasants,
          -600-700 thousand shot
          -1,5 million in camps
          There were still hungry, with deaths of 24-25, 35gg
          Demography collapsed, since 1964 - depopulation. The Russian Cross is the result of PREVIOUS failures, as well as the subsequent one, aggravated by the same ... Communist reformers.
          Quote: chenia
          How could repressions be carried out so that there would not be such terrible losses?

          ANYWHERE of this was not and ANYWHERE of this did NOT help.
          Quote: chenia
          Not taking action is a higher price and a worse crime.

          Yes, if in the 17th the usurpers were destroyed in the bud, none of the above numbers would have happened.
          1. chenia
            chenia 1 February 2018 14: 47
            +9
            Quote: Olgovich
            Gr. war: 10 million dead


            Civil - 16 млн
            Of them 3,5-4,5 million. -emigration
            5 млн- pandemic - "spanish"
            1,5-2 million- unborn
            And if you take away how much died of typhoid, cholera and so on. and from the deterioration of life (hunger, the decline of medicine. infant mortality, etc.)
            Then on the fighting white and red terror (it was) - 1,5-2 million
            And so yes 10 million even more.
            By the way, the population of France and Great Britain also declined significantly in 1922 compared with 1914.


            Quote: Olgovich
            Hunger 21-22g-5 million dead,
            -32-33 g -7 million
            hunger 47 g-1,5 million
            -600 thousand repressed peasants,
            -600-700 thousand shot
            -1,5 million in camps
            There were still hungry, with deaths of 24-25, 35gg


            Here it is delusional numbers

            Complete nonsense.

            The population of the USSR at favorable conditions i.e. without war, famine and repression
            (taking into account the development, and not the patriarchal, dunghill)
            by 1960 would not exceed 280 млн.man A. (was 209 million)
            then demographic losses no more 70 million

            At WWII - 40 млн. 1960 (37million in 1945, 2,5-3 million not born of losses over 15 years)

            So it remains 30 Million
            Of them 10 млн -non-born from losses in hepatitis B (16 million) in 1960

            That remains hunger and repression 4-6 million
            where is the hunger 3-4 million
            а 1,5 -2 million- shot (0,7 million), the rest died in camps, during special relocation, etc.

            It cannot be otherwise if you think a little with your head.




            Quote: Olgovich
            Yes, if in the 17th the usurpers were destroyed in the bud, none of the above numbers would have happened.


            Russia would cease to exist in the forties.
            Hitler-the West did not cultivate it against communism, but against Russia (whatever ideology prevails.)

            Russia today, which means thanks to the red-bellied commies, and the fact that they created.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 15: 21
              +4
              Quote: chenia
              The population of the USSR under favorable conditions i.e. without war, famine and repression
              (taking into account the development, and not the patriarchal, dunghill)
              for 1960 did not exceed would 280 million people a. (Was 209 million)
              it means demographic losses of not more than 70 million

              So this is fortune-telling: what are your “WOULDS” worth? Nothing!
              There are recognized deaths from starvation 5 million in 21-22, ,, 7 million in 32-33 g, 0,8-1,5 million in 47-48 g
              Quote: chenia
              Russia would cease to exist in the forties.

              A thousand years she lived, no matter what, even on the Bolsheviks
              Quote: chenia
              Russia today, which means thanks to the red-bellied commies, and the fact that they created.

              How much more people, wealth, Gagarin would have been today if not for the Bolsheviks!
              1. chenia
                chenia 1 February 2018 15: 39
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                There are recognized deaths from starvation 5 million in 21-22, ,, 7 million in 32-33 g, 0,8-1,5 million in 47-48 g


                Read below, well, and think and wonder where such values ​​can be?

                I repeat, for such losses (which you indicate) the population is not enough.
              2. avva2012
                avva2012 2 February 2018 15: 18
                +3
                How much more people, wealth, Gagarin would have been today if not for the Bolsheviks!
                How much crying here from this: 1905 June 9 days. SENTENCE
                We, the undersigned, peasants of the Tver lips. Novotorzhsky district Pryamukhinsky ox. village Rylev, consisting of 124 revision souls and 57 householders, gathered today in the number of 53 householders to discuss issues related to our urgent needs. Moreover, they decided unanimously to demand from the government: that the identity of the peasant, and indeed the whole people, be inviolable; the people should be given freedom of conscience, speech, press, gatherings, unions and strikes; the court must be equalized with the peasants with all other classes; the peasants, and indeed all persons who have suffered for their beliefs, must be immediately forgiven and released; for peasant education, 4-class schools with craft departments should be introduced, such as carpentry, shoemaker, tailor, etc., with teaching in tillage, horticulture, beekeeping and gardening; teaching in such schools should be free, and those wishing to grant the right, along with all other classes, to enter all secondary and higher educational institutions without any restrictions and divisions on the nobility of origin; all government agencies, without exception, should be under the control of people's representatives, who are elected by the people themselves according to their own system, without any educational qualifications, and elective ones could be without property and educational qualifications, but only literacy and adulthood for the latter , and for the first - one majority; Zemstvo chiefs with the staff of the guardsmen should be abolished and, in general, the peasantry should be freed from the tutelage of bureaucracy, and in return a small zemstvo unit should be introduced; the land should be the property of the farmers, why it is necessary for each peasant to cut enough land into farmsteads, and the government must come to the aid financially to equip and cultivate this land; by-pass filing and all indirect taxes should be abolished, and income taxes should be introduced instead; factory industry and, in general, the question of the proletariat should be standardized in the interests of the workers; the ill-fated, destructive and devastating war should become a popular issue, for which it is necessary to immediately gather representatives from the people and to inform such information about the war; then it will be seen whether to continue it or end on the path of peace. Do not think that our needs can be replaced by some half-measure - no, we were crushed, de-emptied and ruined under your care before that the measure we asked could correct us only after a few years. Therefore, it should be clear to you that we are being pushed to the extreme by total poverty and depressing life. Either we get everything we ask, or you destroy us all and live alone, fulfilling our needs, whims and luxury ourselves, and our real life is a hundred times more painful than death, and therefore we boldly look into her eyes. And besides, we are interested in the question of how you would kill us.
                It should be 52 signatures of peasants. GARF. F. DP, 00. 1905 D. 2550. H. 33. LL 11-12. Script. Olgovich: crying crying How much more people, wealth, Gagarin would have been today if not for the Bolsheviks! crying https://studopedia.ru/19_183469_g-iyunya---prigov
                or-krestyan-d-rileva-novotorzh-skogo-uezda-tversk
                oy-gubernii-v-sovet-ministrov.html There are many more such calls. How would we take off, if not for the Bolsheviks!
          2. Vladimir73
            Vladimir73 2 February 2018 06: 08
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Yes, if in the 17th the usurpers were destroyed in the bud, none of the above numbers would have happened.

            I agree with you - there would be NOTHING, and nobody ....
        3. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 14: 59
          +5
          Quote: chenia
          Yes, for 40 years (from 20 to 60), losses from repressions and famine are 4-6 million people.


          More.

          Quote: chenia
          But over 27 years (from 91-to 2018) -65-70 million have already been lost.


          what are these losses? From repression and famine? Something I do not remember the mass shootings at this time and the deaths of millions of people from starvation
          1. chenia
            chenia 1 February 2018 15: 34
            +4
            Quote: Gopnik
            More.


            It doesn’t work, the population is not enough

            You can continue the line on the graph (the truth is only on the territory of the current Russian Federation on the branch) with an increase to PMV (until 1914) and get on 1960 - 150 million (this if nothing had happened).

            That is, an increase would be in 40 years -63-65 % and this we draw a line from the birth rate in lapotnoy Russia (maximum increase).

            But if in RI the urban population was 20%, then in the USSR in 1940-33%. and in 1960 almost 50%. and as early as 1922, abortion was permitted (1936 again banned until 1956).

            This is all I need, developmental factors lower the birth rate, it’s obvious (well, you won’t blame the French for repressing them for a small increase).

            I in the calculations for RI scored a gain 65% (even more than bastard Russia), then the figure came out 280 млн. 1960, or rather no more

            Well and now. Where to gain losses?.

            Well, strain your head, everything is obvious.

            Quote: Gopnik
            what kind of losses? From repression and famine? Something I do not remember the mass shootings at this time and the deaths of millions of people from starvation


            From a "good" life. And this is a fact. Take growth in the USSR over the past 30 years (there over a decade 23-25 million well and multiply by 2,7 . The number would be what would be the population of the USSR.

            And how and why less liberalists are responsible, their work and their merit and responsibility.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 1 February 2018 16: 01
              +3
              Quote: chenia
              It doesn’t work, the population is not enough


              Enough, because people still tend to be born, and not just die.

              Quote: chenia
              I scored in the RI


              No need to score anything. Read the same Stalinist Zemsky, fortunately, his figures are generally recognized, although they are often criticized. 4-4,5 million is only in his opinion (although he admits that it is not a fact that the number is final) starvation losses 1932-33
              1. chenia
                chenia 1 February 2018 18: 24
                +6
                Quote: Gopnik
                4-4,5 million is only in his opinion


                Where does the population come from? There is a way out - to assert. that we multiplied by budding, a pregnancy of three months and triples.

                If the wife who is given for purchases of 1000 rubles. comes to shopping in a new mink coat. And the question of where - begins to talk about the cost of a square centimeter on such a stock exchange of fur, and continuing to give arguments about the cost price (of the same square) on such farms, talking and furious sales of reductions and stocks in New York and Paris, you can believe.
                But doubts must remain.

                So I say - the population under such losses LACKS.
      6. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 1 February 2018 16: 32
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        ARCHIVES had to be opened, and not to hide everything under the heading "Sov. Secret"

        Yeah ... and all right there will rush into the archives for the true truth. smile
        People do not even read open sources. The repression figures were published almost 30 years ago - in the works of Zemskov in the last years of the USSR. Moreover, the figures were from the archives: the author was a member of the Commission for the Determination of Population Losses of the History Department of the USSR Academy of Sciences, which gained access to the statistical reports of the OGPU-NKVD-MVD-MGB stored in the Central Administrative District.
        By the way, the same Zemskov has a wonderful quote about "impartial historians":
        I do not believe in the existence of the so-called “pure science”, and scientists (especially those who dealt with the problem of repression in the USSR), being in certain social conditions, cannot but fulfill the social order that society currently requires (although the researchers themselves may are not always clearly aware of this)... During the Cold War, in Western historiography, studying repressive politics in the USSR, a whole system of templates, stamps and stereotypes developed, which was considered indecent to go beyond. If, for example, it was customary to determine the total number of victims of repression in the USSR from 40 million or more, the number of Gulag prisoners in the late 30s - from 8 million or more, the number of people repressed in 1937-1938. - from 7 million and above, etc., then calling smaller numbers was actually equivalent to committing an indecent act.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 17: 04
          +3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          in the works of Zemskov in recent years of the USSR. Moreover, the figures were from the archives: the author was a member of the Commission for the Determination of Population Losses of the History Department of the USSR Academy of Sciences, which gained access to the statistical reports of the OGPU-NKVD-MVD-MGB stored in the Central Administrative District.

          Zemskov is by no means authoritative for all Bolsheviks: they believe that he "counted"
          Although my opinion is that I did NOT count it, and he himself gave an occasion, saying that the losses in the Second World War were much less than 27 million, because Investigation commissions considered people killed, and they were alive - in evacuation.
          What was simply a clear FALSE: the Commissions wrote in the Acts not assumptions, but FACTS: what is the calculation of the losses in the given us. paragraph is NOT maintained, because missing population and witnesses. Those. on the contrary, reduced recording only reliable, verifiable data.
          1. Deniska999
            Deniska999 1 February 2018 17: 51
            +5
            Olgovich, go relax, as much as you can argue every day ... There are so many other articles on history ...
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 2 February 2018 09: 34
              0
              Quote: Deniska999
              Olgovich, go relax, how much you can argue every day ..

              And why would you -don't goif it so bored you? request
              After all:
              Quote: Deniska999
              There are so many other history articles ...
              hi
      7. Geronimo73
        Geronimo73 1 February 2018 16: 59
        +2
        Do you now see in the newspapers lists of people sentenced in court cases? how do you imagine such dregs? and why do you need lists of arrested people in newspapers?
      8. MrK
        MrK 16 June 2018 19: 21
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        ARCHIVES had to be opened, and not to hide everything under the heading "Sov. Secret"

        And why the current anti-Soviet power does not open them? Maybe afraid of the truth?
        Dear Olgovich. I once recommended to you an article by Alexander Kurlandchik: “Stalinist repressions of the 30's. Are you sure that they are Stalinist? ”Http://www.proza.ru/2017/06/13/60. This article, by the way, was published on VO.
        You did not answer or object. And continue to carry the blizzard about 1900 shot per day. Yes, if you need to shoot 10 000 bandits a day who have arms up to their shoulders in blood, then this will be correct. And enough for us to powder our brains.
        What today? I read on the internet: I stole 500 million. After 1.5 of the year I came out on parole. Question: You are not one of them? And do you have clean pens?
    3. Deniska999
      Deniska999 1 February 2018 09: 44
      +8
      We got every day in the "History" section three topics: repression, revolution, civil war ... In the world, so much has happened except for these events, and they write only about it.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 1 February 2018 16: 25
        +1
        Not true! There they write about the other and a lot ...
        1. Deniska999
          Deniska999 1 February 2018 17: 50
          +3
          I could be wrong. However, on some days the number of such articles is over the top. The arguments of the parties are unchanged, the srach is constant.
      2. Looking for
        Looking for 2 February 2018 00: 06
        +3
        This is called an ideological struggle. The result of such actions of the Olgovichs & Co is the performances of the Russian younger generation in the German Bundestags
    4. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 1 February 2018 12: 44
      0
      https://imhoclub.by/ru/material/solzhenicinskie_c
      htenija
    5. dokusib
      dokusib 3 February 2018 03: 27
      0
      Multiply by a hundredth laughing
  2. Square
    Square 1 February 2018 06: 45
    +7
    Disputes do not subside ...
    Victims are victims, no matter how many. Especially innocent.
    A significant part of the Soviet citizens repressed under Stalin was made up of senior officials of the party and the Soviet state, including law enforcement and security agencies.

    So, as they say, there was a reason.
    Well, let the CIA go about their business. In some states since 14 years, they put on a "hot chair"
    1. captain
      captain 1 February 2018 11: 04
      +5
      Quote: Square
      Disputes do not subside ...
      Victims are victims, no matter how many. Especially innocent.
      A significant part of the Soviet citizens repressed under Stalin was made up of senior officials of the party and the Soviet state, including law enforcement and security agencies.

      So, as they say, there was a reason.
      Well, let the CIA go about their business. In some states since 14 years, they put on a "hot chair"

      This "significant part", just engaged in the repression of the people, and in their case, Stalin was right. He put Leninists and Trotskyists to the wall correctly; they were fierce Russophobes. It’s a pity not all, some of their kids are now “fussing” at VO. Such as the Varangian are ready to shoot everyone, naturally unarmed. But only in 1991 they were not visible on the barricades. Apparently cherished their lives for a future revolution. As the children and grandchildren of the leaders of the CPSU; Stalin’s daughter and granddaughter, Khrushchev’s son and grandchildren, Andropov’s children and grandchildren, Gorbachev and his daughter, Yeltsin’s daughter ... all the beauty and pride of the CPSU (read the newspaper Pravda, the press organ of the CPSU Central Committee). Everyone is preparing a socialist revolution in the United States or the EU. And such as the Varangian cover them in any way, why? Or for what?
  3. tasha
    tasha 1 February 2018 06: 48
    +6
    The US CIA Analytical Center Rand Corporation calculated the number of repressed during the reign of the Soviet leader and turned out to be slightly different numbers - about 700 thousand people.


    Summary of the article. You can’t read the rest. wink
  4. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 06: 55
    +7
    Solzhenitsyn, officialdom extols, this is a liar, as the conscience of Russia, I hope the truth will ever triumph.
  5. Boris55
    Boris55 1 February 2018 07: 44
    10
    Quote: I. Polonsky
    For what crimes under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, other union republics was laid the Stalin years (1923-1953) the death penalty?

    Respected! Do not recall in what year Stalin came to power?
    Regarding the repressed, even in a note to Khrushchev, Stalin was hanged an extra 3 years.
    Quote: I. Polonsky
    A significant part of the repressed under Stalin

    A significant part of the ZeKs were murderers, rapists, traitors, policemen, deserters, Bandera, green brothers and other scum.
    Do not forget that during the reign of Comrade. Stalin suffered the most terrible war - the laws of wartime are somewhat different from the laws of peace.
  6. kalibr
    kalibr 1 February 2018 07: 53
    11
    Good material, but the author should contact the GARF website, there all materials are freely available and everything is calculated. But the most important thing in the article is not emphasized. Of course, shot marshals it sounds. But another indicator is much more important: among those shot and punished by the camps, 60% are ordinary peasants. This is what matters. In fact, there was ... a repetition of the English enclosure, when the peasantry was liquidated as a class and replaced by "workers in the countryside." In the year 29, when two years in a row the country could not get bread for the modernization of the economy, Stalin himself went to Siberia. And heard a request to the peasants to give bread? "H-ehhh? And you dance!" It is clear that he could not make industrialization dependent on petty psychology. Hence, in December, a congress of Marxist agrarians and a course towards collectivization. And then it was necessary to finally ... finish off this mass, coupled with the dissatisfied. So finished!
  7. Vard
    Vard 1 February 2018 07: 55
    +7
    In all honesty ... we all sometimes think ... only mass shootings will save the country ... I was given the opportunity to read documents for the rehabilitation of victims of political repression ... I would have stuck an aspen stake in many of them ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 1 February 2018 08: 05
      +9
      Quote: Vard
      we all sometimes think ... only mass shootings will save the country ..

      But only for some reason no one thinks that he himself will fall under these very executions.
      1. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 09: 22
        +2
        about the scale of the repression and the real number of victims, as I understand it, there are no questions for the CIA experts, the structure of the repressed too, I can only add on my own, I didn’t steal, I didn’t betray, I didn’t engage in lawlessness, theoretically I can get on the shooting list, I can, if as in 37 and earlier too, a denunciation will be written and some diligent investigator of a half-educated person will begin to sculpt matters.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 1 February 2018 09: 52
          +3
          By 1937, all the NKVD investigators were mostly literate people. Under Dzerzhinsky and Menzhinsky there was a lot of rabble in their ranks, which was why there was more lawlessness.
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 1 February 2018 10: 04
            +3
            Quote: bober1982
            By 1937, all the NKVD investigators were mostly literate people.




            And the productivity of their labor in this regard by 1937 increased sharply.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 1 February 2018 10: 09
              +4
              Quote: Town Hall
              And the productivity of their labor in this regard by 1937 increased sharply.

              Their productivity was directly related to the party line, fluctuating with it.
              1. Town Hall
                Town Hall 1 February 2018 10: 27
                +4
                The defendants were much nicer when they beat off their kidneys and shot at the back of the head people who could read and sometimes write, and not some kind of illiteracy
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 1 February 2018 10: 38
                  +2
                  The point is not when it was more pleasant to receive through the kidneys - in the 20s or in 1937, but that the qualitative composition of the Chekists was by 1937. He was not at all half-educated, unlike his predecessors, whom Stalin, by the way, did not like and then killed all (old Chekists)
                  1. nov_tech.vrn
                    nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 11: 08
                    +6
                    Comrade Bomber was immensely surprised at you, the investigator should have been literate in the operational and legal sense, and not write a protocol, without grammatical errors and expertly beat
                    1. bober1982
                      bober1982 1 February 2018 11: 47
                      +3
                      What is there to be surprised at? everyone must do their job expertly, including beating.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 1 February 2018 13: 59
        +5
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Vard
        we all sometimes think ... only mass shootings will save the country ..

        But only for some reason no one thinks that he himself will fall under these very executions.

        Indeed, now everyone wants Stalin not for themselves, but for others.
    2. MrK
      MrK 16 June 2018 19: 26
      +2
      Quote: Vard
      I would have stuck an aspen stake in many of them.


      I agree. I read on the Internet the words of Vladimir Startsev, senior assistant prosecutor of the Leningrad Region:
      “I used to help 4 acquaintances who also had“ someone repressed ”in their family to look for information about them. People ugrohali a lot of time to contact the various archives, and decent money.
      As a result, it turned out that at one the grandmother sat down not because she “was the daughter of a tsar’s officer”, but because, as an accountant at the factory, she took money from the factory cash desk and bought herself a fur coat.
      Another Grandfather sat not "for a joke about Stalin", but for participating in a gang rape.
      The third the grandfather was not a “peasant dispossessed for anything”, but a recidivist who received a tower for the murder of an entire family (father, mother, and two teenagers).
      Only one grandfather was repressed, but again not "for a joke about Stalin, but for the fact that during the war he was a policeman and worked for the Germans"
  8. Alex_59
    Alex_59 1 February 2018 07: 59
    +7
    Now the fray will begin again, instead of a constructive search for the truth ...
    Nevertheless, there is no answer in the article why the great terror was organized, what was its mechanism, what were the goals?
    And this is a key question for which there is no clear answer. The key one is because during the 31 year of Stalin’s rule, 90% of repressions fell on two years of 1937-1938, and is connected with the position of the head of the NKVD Yezhov. Those. we see a sharp, simply gigantic surge of repression in these two years, against the backdrop of relatively calm other years.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 1 February 2018 08: 13
      +5
      Quote: Alex_59
      Nevertheless, there is no answer in the article why the great terror was organized, what was its mechanism, what were the goals?

      This simply cannot be done due to the fact that the Trotskyists staged the genocide, and Stalin turned it off. But, someone is very eager to accuse Stalin of repression and whitewash the Trotskyists. Hence the whole absurdity of such articles.
      Quote: Alex_59
      we see a sharp, simply gigantic surge of repression in these two years, against the backdrop of relatively calm other years.

      I don’t know what you saw there, but before things were much worse. For example, a civil war in which they simply killed without trial.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 1 February 2018 08: 27
        +4
        Quote: Boris55
        This simply cannot be done due to the fact that the Trotskyists staged the genocide, and Stalin turned it off.

        Like all simplifications (Stalin the scoundrel, Stalin the genius), this statement is exactly far from the truth. I do not know what exactly this truth is, but I know for sure that this statement is not true.
        The Trotskyists undoubtedly had a hand in this, but broadcasting everything on them would not work. Stilling lists for key positions were personally signed by Stalin. He knew about the "great terror" and controlled it. The question is different - what did he want to achieve, what did he end up with, and why did it turn out this way and not otherwise?
        Quote: Boris55
        I don’t know what you saw there, but before things were much worse.

        It's about the period of Stalin's rule. In civilian, he was not a leader; accordingly, this is beyond the scope of the discussion. And during his reign, everything was more or less smooth, with the exception of two years - the 37 and 38 years.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 1 February 2018 08: 47
          +6
          Quote: Alex_59
          The question is different - what did he want to achieve, what did he end up with, and why did it turn out this way and not otherwise?

          Stalin built the world's first state of workers and peasants. Stalin failed to remove the party from ruling the country and transfer all power to the soviets. Based on the theory of Marxism-Leninism, it was impossible to move forward. There was no new theory then, and there is none today.
          "... I think that our economists should put an end to this discrepancy between the old concepts and the new state of affairs in our socialist country, replacing the old concepts with new ones corresponding to the new position. We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come, when we must finally eliminate this discrepancy ... "(Stalin. The economic problems of socialism in the USSR 1952)
          Quote: Alex_59
          It's about the period of Stalin’s reign

          As soon as you stop imagining that any leader who has taken the highest position is on par with God and everyone immediately takes off his pants, prostrates down in front of him and backwards stretches a jar of petroleum jelly, then you may realize that power is not a sign on the office , and the ability to manage. Trotsky, although he fled in the mid-30s, but his followers could not be completely removed from power. In 1953, they killed Stalin .. The repressions stopped when Stalin managed to appoint Beria.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 1 February 2018 09: 07
            +3
            Quote: Boris55
            Stalin failed to remove the party from ruling the country and transfer all power to the soviets. Based on the theory of Marxism-Leninism, it was impossible to move forward. There was no new theory then, and there is none today.

            I guess somewhere here and you have to dig, but there are few documents. That’s the trouble. There is no evidence.
            Quote: Boris55
            As soon as you stop imagining that any leader who has taken the highest position becomes on par with God and everyone immediately takes off his pants, prostrates down in front of him and backwards stretches a jar of petroleum jelly, then you may realize that power is not a sign on the office , and the ability to manage.

            Not appropriate pathos. I am the leader myself. Wrong address.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 1 February 2018 09: 24
              +1
              Quote: Alex_59
              I am the leader myself.

              I apologize. Then you should understand all the more that the blame for the consequences of the board does not lie with the newly appointed, but with the previous, the previous team as a whole.
      2. captain
        captain 1 February 2018 11: 14
        +5
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: Alex_59
        Nevertheless, there is no answer in the article why the great terror was organized, what was its mechanism, what were the goals?

        This simply cannot be done due to the fact that the Trotskyists staged the genocide, and Stalin turned it off. But, someone is very eager to accuse Stalin of repression and whitewash the Trotskyists. Hence the whole absurdity of such articles.
        Quote: Alex_59
        we see a sharp, simply gigantic surge of repression in these two years, against the backdrop of relatively calm other years.

        I don’t know what you saw there, but before things were much worse. For example, a civil war in which they simply killed without trial.

        So, mainly children and grandchildren of the repressed Bolsheviks of Leninists (more precisely the Trotskyists) throw themselves at Stalin. They need at least some kind of revenge. And as a rule, no one remembers the peasants; Well, think collective farmers, they had to plow for the "bright" future of the proletariat. By the way, during the Second World War, in the village 5% of all eligible for military service had a reservation, and in the city 45%. The peasant for the Communists was a consumable, such as sand for the paths along which the Communists would come to their bright future.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 1 February 2018 12: 15
          +9
          Quote: captain
          And as a rule, no one remembers the peasants; Well, think collective farmers, they had to plow for the "bright" future of the proletariat.

          It always amuses me when they write this, because all my ancestors are from peasants. The Soviet government did not consider them so much for people that one grandfather became an officer, the second engineer. Horror, horror. Damn mode.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 34
            +4
            Quote: Alex_59
            It always amuses me when they write this, because all my ancestors are from peasants. The Soviet government did not consider them so much for people that one grandfather became an officer, the second engineer. Horror, horror. Damn mode.

            Man, WHERE?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 1 February 2018 14: 13
              +3
              Have you personally swollen from hunger? "Man, where," was on the collective farm and state farm.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 27
                +3
                Quote: avva2012
                "Man, where," on the collective farm and state farm was.

                Exactly what WAS.
                By your efforts, disappeared to the 80 years.
                WHO will inhabit Siberia, Far East? Communists? lol
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 1 February 2018 15: 33
                  +3
                  And where did he disappear to 80? fool "By your efforts."
                  WHO will inhabit Siberia, Far East?
                  So, they basically live there. Judging by how and for whom Siberia and the Far East vote.
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 1 February 2018 15: 59
                    +4
                    Quote: avva2012
                    So, they basically live there. Judging by how and for whom Siberia and the Far East vote.

                    Dear AVVA2012! Forced to give you some insight into the patient's medical history. He has an obsession that the communists from 1964 to 1980 destroyed all the villagers to zero. Maliciously and with sadism. He believes that contrary to all economic realities (urbanization, change of ways, etc.) and the laws of self-regulation of the economy, it is necessary to immediately populate the countryside with crowds of people. According to him, they will grow bread there. The fact that in stores without these millions of peasants bread was piled up so that they nearly kick it and do not need extra bread - it does not bother him. The patient also denies the objective role of progress and the introduction of technology and automation in peasant labor. Ignored the complete absence in the village of these millions of workers in the presence of a tractor, automation and other equipment. These demonic inventions interfere with the demography of Russians (apparently you need to take a hoe again). The patient is not convinced that the population of the USSR from 1964 to 1991 increased by more than 30% (all the same, the Bolsheviks staged a depopulation!). Nor is it convincing that hundreds of villages in the USSR were transferred in connection with their rapid development to the status of "city", turning hundreds of thousands of yesterday's villagers into townspeople.
                    Therefore, I urge you not to argue with him.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 1 February 2018 16: 51
                      +5
                      Dear Alex, I don’t argue with him. I am curious. I liked to look at the microscope from the institute, to study how they have it. The film was such a wonderful, "Open Book", but did not become a microbiologist, so I compensate))), I remember youth. You write everything correctly. But there are two points worth considering. First, bread. The former party organizer does not know why there were posters in every bakery, "take care, bread!". Because it was heaped up. It was cheap and the same peasants (extinct), bought it in the store, feed the pigs. Where did the bread come from? And the second point. In 1985 year, the struggle against alcoholism and alcoholism began. They drank not only in the city and even, not so much there, but in the village. He apparently never raised anything heavier than a spoon (I will not mention the second item, ban)) and does not know how the peasant works. In the RKMP, under the tsar's father, those in the village drank those who already had nothing left. But in the USSR, on the contrary. Mechanization and organization of labor have done their job. The man has free time. The peasant knew that he could, even in pain, relax and then not he, not his family, would not die of hunger. So here. On the one hand, bread was piled not only for the townspeople, but on the other hand, the peasant had time and he did not always use it correctly. A paradox for the Moldovan correspondent.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 10
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Ignored the complete absence in the village of these millions of workers in the presence of a tractor, automation and other equipment.

                      Oh my god! belay laughing
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      it does not convince the patient that the population of the USSR from 1964 to 1991 grew more thanm 30% (all the same, the Bolsheviks staged a depopulation!)

                      If family of two people gave birth to ONE child is growth on 30%.
                      But this is the extinction of the family. Not getting it?
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      It also does not convince that hundreds of villages in the USSR were transferred in connection with their rapid development to the status of "city", turning hundreds of thousands of yesterday's villagers into townspeople

                      60 thousand villages WAS DIED only in the Non-Black Earth Region, and did not turn into cities. Got it? These are 30% of villages! This catastrophe-read the recognition of the regional committees of the Communist Party of the RSFSR on a catastrophic shortage of hands- s1950-x years !.
                      In Europe, yes, ALL villages gradually turned into cities, because there 263 people / km2 was still a hundred years ago!
                      But in Russia -9 people / km2 and the disappearance of the village with its rapidly growing population is a crime against the future. country. With such a density, it is inevitably populated by neighbors.

                      There was such a fool, reassured by this; " And the rest, a beautiful marquise. EVERYTHING IS GOOD, all is well! "
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 2 February 2018 10: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        60 thousand villages DIED only in the Non-Black Earth region, and did not turn into cities.

                        Again a lie. DIED ?? Part of the villages was transformed into cities. Some villages due to the migration of the population to the city were liquidated, because the maintenance of such facilities is not economically profitable - they do not produce anything, and roads, electricity networks must be maintained. And that characteristically life only became more satisfying and better.
                        Can you give a link to 60 of thousands of DEAD villages? Only the dead. Desirable list with a name indicating the settlements, the date of extinction. Only at the official Rosstat. The opinions of the Solonins and Rezuns do not interest me. Or will wagging begin in the style of I said "died" as "about 1900 shot"?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In Europe, ALL villages gradually turned into cities,

                        Everything? Those. has every farm become a city? And in Greenland and in Canada too?
                        Again, links to official data are needed.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 14: 17
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Can you give a link to 60 thousand DIED villages?

                      Monograph by LN Denisov "The Disappearing Village of Russia" - with links and sources of T
                      only the dead. Desirable list with the name of the settlementsdate of extinction
                      .
                      belay Do you need ears from?
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Everything? Those. has every farm become a city? And in Greenland and in Canada too?
                      Again, links to official data are needed.

                      There are no extinct. Discover the "population of Belgium, Germany" - and go! "She herself!" hi
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 2 February 2018 09: 48
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    And where did he disappear to 80?

                    To the ground. To the cities. Where has ceased to breed.
                    Quote: avva2012
                    So, they basically live there.

                    You turned the heart of Russia-Non-Black Earth into a DESERT. Who will master this desert? Chinese? Koreans (already had experience)? Central Asians (ALREADY coming)?
                    Let me remind you: just a hundred years ago there was a fight for every piece of land, wild overpopulation. In the 80s, no one needs it anymore, depopulation.
                    "Good" you did it !.
                    1. Alex_59
                      Alex_59 2 February 2018 10: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You turned the heart of Russia-Non-Black Earth into a DESERT.

                      Moldova! Do you even come to this non-black earth for interest. Look what happens here, then write. Laughter ... He tells us how we died out and live in the desert. Theorist.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 February 2018 13: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Moldova! Do you even come to this non-black earth for interest. Look what happens here, then write. Laughter ... He tells us how we died out and live in the desert. Theorist.

                        Smolenschina I know much better than you, "practitioner".
                        And there is a desert (Temkinsky borough, for example), especially in winter, no haze, no skiing ....
                        Let me remind you, just a hundred years ago, there is life-KKIPELA
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 2 February 2018 14: 45
                      +1
                      Non-Black Earth. It includes four economic regions:
                      Northern Economic Region
                      Northwest Economic Region
                      Central Economic Region
                      Volga-Vyatka economic region, as well as certain regions of Russia:
                      Kaliningrad region
                      Perm
                      Sverdlovsk region
                      Udmurtia
                      The disappearing village of Russia. Non-black soil in the 1960-1980-ies.
                      In 1907 was Zemsky doctor A. I. Shingarev published the sensational book "Endangered Village" . The book is the result of a sanitary-economic study of two villages of the Voronezh district: Novo-Animal and Mokhovatki. The author emphasized the typicality of these villages, painted a convincing picture of poverty and the ruin of the peasantry. Revolutions and wars, colossal shifts in the life of the country made significant changes in the future fate of the peasantry. And no matter how we relate to these events and changes in one, apparently, the majority will agree: and after many years we again state the fact of the extinction of the village. This phenomenon causes a dual sensation. On the one hand, of course, everything that happened was sad. But on the other hand, the modernization of the village and agricultural production were necessary and inevitable. (Actually, this was obvious at the end of the 19th century.). Publishing House: "Institute of Russian History of the Russian Academy of Sciences" (2014)
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 09: 00
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        In 1907, the Zemsky doctor A. I. Shingarev published the acclaimed book "The Endangered Village"

                        I hear the "roar of delight." lol
                        Have you started reading? belay
                        So read ALL.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        modernization of the village and agricultural production were necessary and inevitable.

                        And these were not, as you thought, collective farms.
                        Various forms of cooperation in Russia were covered 50% of peasants and this process was expanding, a large-scale land management reform was underway, several million peasants studied at courses in technological management of agriculture, resettlement, introduction of equipment, etc. went on, that was meant, not DESTRUCTION of the peasantry, as YOU did.
                        Got it? hi
                2. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 1 February 2018 15: 52
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Man, WHERE?

                  I'm here. And why this question?
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  By your efforts, disappeared to the 80 years.

                  Which disappeared? There are plenty of them around.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  WHO will inhabit Siberia, Far East? Communists?

                  You. You will move to Elban and develop wildly successful agriculture and produce billions of children. Will we just wait. And then bazaar is all much more.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    I'm here. And why this question?

                    You are not a man laughing
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    Which disappeared? There are plenty of them around.

                    fool
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    You. You will move to Elban and develop wildly successful agriculture and produce billions of children.

                    You took responsibility for the country in 17, you ditch it, you should be populated.
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    And then bazaar is all much more.

                    This is-yes: you knew how to bazaar-one crack was from stupid calls: "Give!", "Come on!", "Early!" and so forth hi
                    1. Alex_59
                      Alex_59 2 February 2018 10: 26
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You are not a man

                      Well, of course, I expected this, in the style of liberals of insult and humiliation. laughing When there are no arguments, they begin to behave like Svanidze.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You took responsibility for the country in 17, you ditch it, you should be populated.

                      I? You have a snack there. I was born in the year 81, and in general I am a capitalist businessman. I will not do what does not make a profit. Therefore, I will not sow wheat in the Siberian taiga.
                      But you are another question. All his life he served the Bolsheviks, took the oath, was a member of the Komsomol, the party, the pioneers, kissed the banner, sang a hymn. So you ruined the country in which I was born. hi
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 February 2018 11: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Well, of course, I expected this, in the style of liberals of insult and humiliation.

                        You are NOT a peasant, if you haven’t.
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        I AM? You have a snack there. I was born in 81 year, and in general I am a capitalist businessman. I will not do what does not make a profit. Therefore, I will not sow wheat in the Siberian taiga.

                        Learn Russian: you mean conversion in Plural, that is, you are Bolsheviks
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Therefore, I will not sow wheat in the Siberian taiga.

                        There are tons of OTHER PROFITABLE affairs in the Siberian taiga. NO PEOPLE.
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        But you are another question. All his life he served the Bolsheviks, took the oath, was a member of the Komsomol, the party, the pioneers, kissed the banner, sang a hymn. So you ruined the country in which I was born.

                        He did not serve the Bolsheviks, but the COUNTRY, and gave her the oath, in which there is NO WORD about the Bolsheviks. I didn’t give more oaths.
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        I was born in '81

                        So you are also a child ... yes
                3. Looking for
                  Looking for 2 February 2018 00: 25
                  +3
                  You (force) will be populated by the captain, teterin and other militant bourgeois-liberal riffraff.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 22
                    0
                    Quote: Seeker
                    You (force) will be populated by the captain, teterin and other militant bourgeois-liberal riffraff.

                    No, we will pay you, and you, as a dear, will run to plow the taiga: capitalism, panimash! laughing
                    1. Alex_59
                      Alex_59 2 February 2018 11: 41
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      So you are also a child ...

                      Do not flattery, old man, I asked you to envy silently. tongue
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      you mean plural

                      I am not a Bolshevik and do not vote for the Communists. I don’t know who you are talking to then, it seems like nonsense.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      There are tons of OTHER PROFITABLE affairs in the Siberian taiga. NO PEOPLE.

                      Well duck ahead, go for it. There are many profitable businesses. Eat it. Work. What are we sitting?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      He did not serve the Bolsheviks, but the COUNTRY, and gave her the oath, in which there is NO WORD about the Bolsheviks.

                      That oath says that you swear "to the last breath to be faithful to your People, your Soviet Motherland and Soviet government. "and" is always readyabout the order of the Soviet Government to defend my homeland - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. "
                      You are our quirky.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 February 2018 14: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Do not flattery, old man, I asked you to envy silently

                        Flattery? belay You are with Russian, not at odds ....
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        I am not a Bolshevik and do not vote for the Communists. I don’t know who you are talking to then, it seems like nonsense

                        What a difference, if you approve. request
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Well duck ahead, go for it. There are many profitable businesses. Eat it. Work. What are we sitting?

                        I can’t fix the crime of destroying the people — you have left us a little. Bessarabia is the Novorossiysk region, conquered from the Turks, turned by you into ... Moldova. Here, too, Russians are needed. EVERYWHERE we need, but we are few ..
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        That oath says that you swear "to the last breath to be faithful to your People, your Soviet Motherland and the Soviet Government." and "I am always ready, by order of the Soviet Government, to come forward to defend my Motherland - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics."

                        Correctly, about the Communist Party, not a word, as in ANY oath of the world, the oath is made to the STATE, not to the party. Has it come to you, a poorly understood one?
          2. captain
            captain 1 February 2018 18: 11
            +3
            Quote: Alex_59
            Quote: captain
            And as a rule, no one remembers the peasants; Well, think collective farmers, they had to plow for the "bright" future of the proletariat.

            It always amuses me when they write this, because all my ancestors are from peasants. The Soviet government did not consider them so much for people that one grandfather became an officer, the second engineer. Horror, horror. Damn mode.

            I am also amused by people like you. If you go along your path, then the peasants under the tsar lived the same wonderful life. For example: Denikin is the son of a serf, who in 25 years of immaculate service became an officer. Alekseev is the son of a drummer of a regimental orchestra, who was promoted to officer for personal courage and long service ... Your conclusion: serfs and soldiers under the tsar lived very well. Did I understand you correctly ? By the way; in 1913 there were about 25% officers-peasants (and Cossacks). That peasants lived great !!! My friend, forgive Christ for the sake of, but you’re a ball ... with, although literate.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 2 February 2018 09: 50
              +2
              Quote: captain
              If you go along your path, then the peasants under the king lived the same wonderful life.
              “Under the tsar” as well as “under the Bolsheviks” these are very long historical periods. It would be more accurate to say so - yes, and under the tsar there were times when the peasants generally lived well (if their hands grow from the right place). Naturally, it is relative, since in general, as a whole, peasant labor has never been easier, even today, when much is automated. And Denikin is a great example of how a personality can manifest itself and grow from the bottom.
              All this is like a layer cake - very difficult. What is the result of concern for the authorities? What is the result of the efforts of the individual? Denikin made his way because the government created effective social elevators for all peasants? Or did he do it contrary to the system?
              I am against the nightmare and demonization of both the Soviet and the tsarist era. Each era has its own schools and successes. And in Soviet times, there were periods when it was very difficult in the village - the same hunger and crop failures. But when at the same time they start yelling about a forced action to starve the peasants, or to exterminate them ... well, my ... request
              I can say for sure that when both of my grandfathers left the village, the authorities actively called on the peasants to go from the village to the city, to production and to the army. And thousands of peasants became pilots and engineers like my two grandfathers. Who say thank you for this? To the Bolsheviks? Not. Firstly, they themselves for the fact that they were active creative individuals and were eager for knowledge. Secondly, this outcome was an objective historical need - any government would make such an appeal in those conditions, because there was a transition to the industrial era and there was an abundance of people in the countryside, but there were not enough engineers or workers. And only thirdly, thanks to the Bolsheviks. So Bolshevism as a system here is only one of the factors, far from the only one.
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 1 February 2018 08: 16
      +4
      As for the 31 years of Stalin’s rule, you exaggerated, and blaming all repressions on Yezhov would also be an exaggeration, in the 20s the scope of repressions was worse than in 1937-1938.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 1 February 2018 08: 34
        +1
        Quote: bober1982
        in the 20th years the scope of repressions was worse than in the 1937-1938gg.
        I am not fond of esotericism and alternative history, sorry.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 1 February 2018 09: 33
          +1
          Quote: Alex_59
          I am not fond of esotericism and alternative history, sorry.

          And it is right. Just look at the statistics.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 1 February 2018 09: 53
            +1
            I took a little photoshop:
    3. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 14: 39
      +3
      Quote: Alex_59
      Those. we see a sharp, simply gigantic surge of repression in these two years, against the backdrop of relatively calm other years.

      I see this situation a little differently. In 1934, a congress of the CPSU (b) was convening; more than half of the delegates were repressed. But Comrade Stalin interrupted this "Leninist guard" because they were criminals. corrupt officials and stuff. And then they began to descend from the Union level to the republican level, etc. to areas. There are a lot of them. In the districts, too, deputies, officials, decision-makers in the bodies, well, smaller criminals. The only example, in my opinion, is when the rotting fish was cleaned from the head, too, starting from the head.
      Today, if you clean up the country, you need to do the same. Without reinventing bicycles. First, under the investigation of the State Duma with the Senate, then the levels of the region-city-district. The same categories: deputies, officials, decision-makers. It is also necessary to attract businessmen who exert corruption pressure on the authorities.
      Well, how many ghouls have to dunk, everyone today sees around him.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 1 February 2018 16: 21
        +1
        And who do you propose to the judges and the “dippers”? You all have one thing - it is necessary, it is necessary .. Who will do it? "We must remove the moon from the sky!"
        1. Sergey Medvedev
          Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 16: 49
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          And who do you propose to the judges and the “dippers”?

          I'm ready. It has long been ripe. And other volunteers will find an order to restore.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 1 February 2018 17: 23
            +2
            Quote: Sergei Medvedev
            I'm ready. It has long been ripe. And other volunteers will find an order to restore.

            There were such "fellows" in Germany in the early 1920s and until 1945, they wore brown shirts ........
            1. Sergey Medvedev
              Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 23: 47
              +3
              Quote: RUSS
              There were such "fellows" in Germany in the early 1920s and until 1945, they wore brown shirts ........

              You take a lot on yourself, hang up such labels. I really got all this stealing bastard. And you are either from among them, or from the Navalny swamp. Supporter of humanism, universal values ​​and other liberal snot.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 1 February 2018 08: 28
    +8
    It is enough to recall that in the 1920s and 1930s the country was in a hostile environment, the situation was not particularly stable in a number of regions of the Soviet Union.
    ..Now, bourgeois Russia is also in a hostile environment of partners .. And the state also carries out repressions against those who work against the state for the benefit of foreign partners, only with a slightly different sauce .. The names of these "repressed" are known .. the children are now insolent, everyone remembers the recent story when a drunk six-year-old boy, after drinking vodka, judging by the results of the examination, rushed to stop the car of this powerful world ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 1 February 2018 14: 01
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      Now bourgeois Russia is also in a hostile environment of partners ..

      Did they tell you this from the TV?
  10. oracul
    oracul 1 February 2018 08: 28
    +8
    Sane people have long been aware that the total number of repressed for 30 years (I emphasize - 30 years) is within 700 thousand people. Insane (for the most part, cosmopolitan liberals) cannot be explained either to our experts or to the Americans. Neither references to the consequences of the civil war, nor to confrontation during the years of industrialization, collectivization, nor the Great Patriotic War, when a huge number of people went over to the enemy’s side, but they were incommensurably smaller than the majority that honestly did their job, defended and restored their homeland, would not help here. . The irresponsible will never take responsibility for the deaths of millions of people in the 90s, when they started talking about the "Russian cross". And this is supposedly in the "peaceful" years. They could not hear their voice in defense of ordinary people who were killed at the hands of bandits thrown out into the street by the merciless "arm of capitalism" in the form of scammers and crooks left without salaries and pensions. Although no - it was heard when they killed one of their own, for example, Listyev. But this is a completely different song.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 09: 10
      +3
      Let me correct you. 700 thousand — these, according to the KGB, were executed in 1937–38. http://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 1 February 2018 12: 13
        +7
        http://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783

        http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_gov
        ernor / stalin / 00133.html
        "In 2014, the book" Stalin and the People: Why There Was No Rebellion "was published, in which Viktor Zemskov, probably anticipating his death, dropped the mask of political correctness and essentially left a testament to his readers: 1)" Thus, based on our version of the general the number of political repressed, the proportion of those in the population living in 1918 - 1958 years is 2,5% (about 10 million compared to over 400 million). This means that 97,5% the population of the USSR was not subjected to political repression in any form. "I’ll clarify that the scientist considers a broad interpretation of the term“ repressed for political reasons ”, including deported, dispossessed, subjected to“ purges ”for social reasons, etc. 2)“ On concealment of this indisputable fact in recent almost quarter of century the whole power of the propaganda machine is directed. Everything possible and impossible is being done in order to preserve the false idea introduced into the mass consciousness that the whole or almost all of the people were allegedly subjected to various repressions. The younger generation of our people has been nurtured on this “black myth” and the older generations have been fairly propagandized in a corresponding spirit. ”(C.103) 3) Aware of the worship of Russian society in the West, Zemskov advises to heed the conclusions of the American historian Robert Tergston: the system of Stalinist terror in the form in which it was described by previous generations of [Western] scholars never existed; the influence of terror on Soviet society during the Stalin years was not significant; there was no mass fear of repression in the 1930 years in the Soviet Union; repression was limited and did not affect the majority of the Soviet people; Soviet society supported the Stalinist regime rather than feared it; for most people, the Stalinist system provided an opportunity for advancement and participation in public life ”(C.100) .4)“ ... ordinary Soviet citizens for the most part didn't know much or didn’t know anything about the repressions, the victims of which were many thousands of innocent people, and for the first time they heard about this only after the famous speech of N. Khrushchev at the XX Congress of the CPSU in 1956 "(S.120) .5)" They don’t understand, for example, how could one fight for land that the Soviet power “took away” from the peasants, “seized”, “confiscated”, “expropriated”, etc. Meanwhile, all this argument would be valid only if The "selected" land went to some other ownersbut she, after all, remained in the collective possession of the same peasants. The whole array of historical sources that we have at hand, irrefutably indicates that the Soviet peasants for the most part did not consider collective farm land as allegedly alien and by no means were they going to give it to the foreign conquerors without a fight ”(S.123) .6)“ Of course, there were anti-Soviet, anti-Bolshevik and anti-Stalinist sentiments in society. But do not exaggerate their scale. The existing socio-political system in the USSR had massive support - most people were devoted to it. He personified with the embodied ideals of the October Revolution of 1917, and the Soviet state itself in the consciousness of millions of people was perceived as the only state in the world of workers and peasants. Therefore, in the event of military danger, Soviet citizens for the most part were ready to defend not only their homeland, their state, irrespective of its political structure, but also the socio-political system that had developed in the USSR, its social and political system ”(C.114) 7)“ In fact, on the sixth of the globe new civilization. It was a unique civilization, analogues of which were not in the history of mankind either in the past or in the present. ” (C.113) "or: http://sovsojuz.mirtesen.ru/blog/43067230811/1.-Z
        aveschanie-Viktora-Zemskova.-2.-Lozh-o-kolichestv
        e-repressir
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 51
          +2
          Quote: avva2012
          in which Viktor Zemskov,

          Do you believe the numbers of Zemskov? Some consider him a liberalist: counted too much.
          Here are his numbers and interesting, albeit underestimated.
          But words, no, are not interesting.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 1 February 2018 14: 19
            +7
            Some people think this is who? Slop Svanidze, Sytiny and Co.? So let, they, listen, those who live in the same place, st.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 24
              +4
              Quote: avva2012
              Some people think this is who? Slop Svanidze, Sytiny and Co.? So let, they, listen, those who live in the same place, st.

              You are inattentive: they consider him LIBERAST, that is, the Communists. And here on the site, too, such met.
              AND AGAIN You did not answer: do you believe his numbers or not?
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 1 February 2018 14: 28
                +6
                Follow the link and there will be no questions who writes about his will. ps did not like it? wink
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 54
                  +3
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Follow the link and there will be no questions who writes about his will. ps did not like it?

                  THIRD times did not answer, what kind of manners? request
                  Some Alekseev writes. So what?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 1 February 2018 15: 37
                    +2
                    Nothing. There the pages are indicated on the book of Zemskov.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 24
                      0
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Nothing. There the pages are indicated on the book of Zemskov

                      THE FOURTH TIME I ASK lol ) -Do you BELIEVE these numbers or NO ?! belay
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 2 February 2018 16: 01
                        +1
                        fool To ask a stranger in this way is complete lack of culture, Olgovich. lol Although, where you were brought up, that is, where Sytin and Svanidze are, such education, apparently, is in the order of things. wink
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 February 2018 09: 05
                      0
                      Quote: avva2012
                      To ask a stranger in this way is complete lack of culture, Olgovich.

                      Which one? You are not called, not sent .... belay yes Or is it necessary? yes
                      The FIFTH time I ask, you are ours sliding: do you believe Zemskov’s numbers or not?
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Although, where you were brought up,

                      Would you ever You appealed, z. lol hi
                      Or tortured culture?
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 48
          +3
          What are you arguing with? Let me clarify? Does anyone claim that the majority of those living in 1918-1958 suffered political repression?
    2. Gopnik
      Gopnik 1 February 2018 12: 16
      +6
      Quote: oracul
      Sane people have long been aware that the total number of repressed for 30 years (I emphasize - 30 years) is within 700 thousand people.


      sane people, first of all, know how to see the difference between “repressed” and “shot”. What I wish you
  11. Dashing
    Dashing 1 February 2018 09: 00
    +6
    The material is informative and honest. The fact that the name of I.V. Stalin was trampled into the mud, and poured mud poured onto his graves is a historical fact. Like the fact that he was credited with atrocities in which he is not guilty. It is difficult for us, living in the 2000s, to understand the ambiguity and complexity of that difficult time. I am sure that if the head of the country was not C
  12. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 09: 04
    +6
    The author of the article is not completely objective. The education system of the USSR of the 30s actively copied the principles of teaching imperial Russia. Yes, and textbooks, too. One textbook of math Kiselev is worth.
    And the reference to Solzhenitsyn is incomparable. Alexander Isaevich is accused of lying, while actively distorting his words. 70 million are his words about the number of demographic losses during the years of “Soviet power”, and not about the number of repressed.
  13. Vladivostok1969
    Vladivostok1969 1 February 2018 09: 13
    +6
    Studying the history of the USSR on the works of Solzhenitsyn led partly to the collapse of the country. During that time, we did not catch the eye of the memoirs written by the wife of this writer after his death (he died posture, I would like it earlier). 1943. And he actually only "sniffed" the camps as an accountant. And we believed him.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 11: 28
      +4
      Sorry, but Solzhenitsyn’s works were banned in the USSR. He was not studied. But in vain — he warned of many problems and his forecasts, for example, regarding the national republics came true completely.
      1. Vladivostok1969
        Vladivostok1969 1 February 2018 12: 47
        +2
        It was self-study. We wanted to learn all about the cult of personality, about repression. We were young and looking for information. The Gulag archipelago and probably saw it for the first time in 1989. I don’t remember exactly. But now I understand that it was NOT THE BOOK.
      2. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 12: 50
        +3
        Study the lieutenant, only, do not vomit ahead of time
        EARLY
        Camp Poems
        Little path
        STORIES
        One day of Ivan Denisovich
        Matryonin Yard
        Right brush
        Case at Kochetovka station
        For the good of the cause
        Zahar Kalita
        What a pity
        Easter procession
        Ego
        At the edges
        Young
        Nastya
        Apricot jam
        Does not matter
        On breaks
        Zhelyabug settlements
        TINS
        PLAYS AND SCENARIOS
        Winners feast
        Deer and hut
        Captives
        Tanks know the truth
        Candle in the wind
        Parasite
        NOVELS
        In the circle the first
        Red Wheel: At 4 Knots
        TALK
        Love the revolution
        Cancer shell
        Adlig Schwenkitten
        ART STUDIES
        Gulag Archipelago: In 7 Parts
        Two hundred years together: In 2 parts
        PUBLICITY
        Nobel lecture
        On the return of breath and consciousness
        Repentance and self-restraint
        Education
        Peace and violence
        To live not by lies!
        Orbital path
        Shredding freedom
        Harvard Speech
        Our pluralists
        Reflections on the February Revolution
        Templeton Lecture
        How do we equip Russia?
        Playing the strings of the void
        We stopped seeing the target
        "Russian Question" by the end of the XNUMXth century
        Russia in a collapse
        Exhaustion of culture?
        The rebirth of humanism
        ABOUT LITERATURE
        Rubbing my eyes
        Don analysis
        Koblet your tripod
        Literary collection
        MEMOIRS
        Butted calf with oak
        Pleased with a grain between two millstones
  14. Berkut
    Berkut 1 February 2018 09: 15
    +5
    For some reason, the article completely bypasses the fact of sentencing by non-judicial bodies - “triples”. And this already makes all the sentences handed down by him unjust.
  15. unignm
    unignm 1 February 2018 09: 16
    +3
    and sho so little? I thought a billion
  16. Rey_ka
    Rey_ka 1 February 2018 09: 46
    +2
    ABOUT! it turns out to be a "great depression" in the USA, too, we !?
  17. alebor
    alebor 1 February 2018 10: 42
    +5
    You can argue for a long time about the exact numbers, about the real number of victims of repression. But when you read from how many prominent figures of culture, art, science, military, politicians the date of death is 1937 / 38, it somehow becomes uncomfortable. As if among them there was an epidemic of plague.
    I would like to mentally project these events in our days. I can imagine how I turn on the TV in the morning or go to the Internet news and read: the Ukrainian spy Andrei Makarevich was shot the day before yesterday, the writer Viktor Pelevin was sentenced to 15 years for slander against the Russian state, today the monarchist and counter-revolutionary Zakhar was arrested and sentenced to death. Prilepin. Accused of spying for the United States and sentenced to death by Vladimir Pozner, an underground wrecking organization consisting of TV presenters Vladimir Solovyov, Roman Babayan, Dmitry Kiselyov and Andrey Malakhov was arrested - all of them admitted to being Japanese spies during interrogation and will be shot. The German spy Sergey Shoigu and the pest Dmitry Rogozin, as well as the pest academician Zhores Alferov, were arrested, the anti-adviser Yevgeny Petrosyan was sentenced to 10 years, Nikolai Baskov was shot, etc. etc ... It is possible to treat the listed people differently, to love someone, to hate someone, but the question is different: would I like to live in a state where this happens? (even if subsequently highbrow researchers would argue that the number of victims compared to the total population was very small and that even the population was even growing) My answer: “Absolutely NO!”
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 1 February 2018 11: 40
      12
      alebor Today, 10: 42
      It is possible to treat the listed people differently, to love someone, to hate someone, but the question is different: would I like to live in a state where this happens? My answer: - Categorically NO!
      Well, you may not want it, but most people want it. For example, I would love to hear the news that a thief and a traitor, Chubais, or rather both Chubais, were shot for activities to undermine the foundations of the state gozman, Reichelgauz, Serebrennikov, Svanidze, Tsapko, Amanuel, were planted for 25 years without the possibility of correspondence and without the right to parole Sobchak, Baghdasaryan, Shamsuarov, etc.
      I assure you, the people (with rare exceptions) would applaud while standing! good
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 1 February 2018 12: 19
        +5
        Learn to speak for yourself.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 1 February 2018 14: 07
        +3
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        Well, you may not want it, but most people want it.

        This is not so according to the VTsIOM and Levada surveys, Stalin's rating in Russia is approximately 40%, but at the same time only half of these 40% would like to live in Stalin's time.
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 1 February 2018 16: 11
        +2
        Varyag_0711 And the majority of the people are ... not those people who are generally worth listening to! Experts believe that the Russian population has not adapted to the new rhythm of life, the consequences of "global post-communist trauma, a change in consciousness, a change in social relations" are affecting. In addition, the situation is aggravated by the traditional Russian factors: alcoholism, drug addiction, food poisoning, mass poverty, and lack of work. The lack of confidence in the future caused by the economic situation in the country also contributes to loosening the psyche. 21% need urgent psychiatric help, about 60% need sedatives!
        A significant contribution to the increase in the number of mentally ill people is made by the Russian authorities, cultivating the image of the enemy. Russians are beginning to see enemies everywhere: among immigrants from the Caucasus and from Asia who come from other regions. Experts also note that many mentally ill people find themselves in politics or become leaders of extremist organizations. In this capacity, they begin to “infect” healthy people with their crazy ideas (including the “image of the enemy”).
        Mass neuroticism is also associated with increased catastrophes and terrorist attacks. According to experts, now every eighth Muscovite is afraid to go down the subway, and every twelfth is to use the elevator.
        An increase in the pace of life affects children the most and causes the disease at an early stage of development. There is statistics showing that 70–80% of babies in Russia are born with various types of mental illness.

        More details: http://www.newsru.com/russia/30jan2007/russkiepsi
        hi.html

        And these ... Do you attribute to the eternally right majority?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 1 February 2018 17: 04
          +4
          The main enemy of the population is capitalism. The same problems exist in the West.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 1 February 2018 17: 27
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            The main enemy of the population is capitalism. The same problems exist in the West.

            99% of today's states are capitalist countries.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 1 February 2018 18: 02
              +5
              Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Zaire, Mexico, etc. China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, this is the other pole. And the pole is at least independent. And read the WHO reports on what V.O. Perhaps there is an Internet statistics on drug addiction in the USSR and the USA, the year so in 1965. For alcoholism, the same comparisons. Ask around those people who were young at the time. They were worried about the problems that concern us and the rest of the 99% of the capitalist countries.
            2. Looking for
              Looking for 2 February 2018 00: 30
              +2
              I clarify imperialism. I hope you know the difference between imperialism and capitalism?
      4. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 1 February 2018 17: 41
        +3
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        For example, I would love to hear the news that a treason and a traitor Chubais, or rather both Chubais, were shot for treason and crimes against the people,

        Under the current president, this is impossible .. Point.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        I assure you, the people (with rare exceptions) would applaud while standing!

        Yesterday you stuttered about my Moscow lol And how two absolutely antagonistic people can fit in your MOSCOW. Communist Bolshevik Stalin and liberal Putin?
        with a guarantee to this citizen, the supreme measure of social protection for treason (oath) would be prescribed.
      5. captain
        captain 1 February 2018 18: 03
        +1
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        alebor Today, 10: 42
        It is possible to treat the listed people differently, to love someone, to hate someone, but the question is different: would I like to live in a state where this happens? My answer: - Categorically NO!
        Well, you may not want it, but most people want it. For example, I would love to hear the news that a thief and a traitor, Chubais, or rather both Chubais, were shot for activities to undermine the foundations of the state gozman, Reichelgauz, Serebrennikov, Svanidze, Tsapko, Amanuel, were planted for 25 years without the possibility of correspondence and without the right to parole Sobchak, Baghdasaryan, Shamsuarov, etc.
        I assure you, the people (with rare exceptions) would applaud while standing! good

        So the people and in 1991g applauded standing, the main thing that the people promise. And in 1917 the land was promised to the peasants, and they were led. They did not know what would be 1928 and 32 when everyone took it. Communism was promised to the people (Khrushchev at the congress) in 1981, and then they said that Khrushchev was a volunteer. Gorbachev promised perestroika and collapsed the USSR (much like the United States planned at the conference following the results of the 1 World War in Paris.). Believe your brothers, do not respect yourself.
      6. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 1 February 2018 18: 25
        +1
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711

        Well, what are you, the world's first transformer "ship-man"? Blown away? Opened kingstones? do you straighten perpendiculars? fellow
        push something into Zaputin, please the people. And then to you, liberod, the image of a Stalinist, well, it’s not at all laughing
    2. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 15: 01
      +4
      Quote: alebor
      My answer: - Categorically NO!

      And my answer is absolutely YES. Your entire list, except Prilepin and Alferov.
  18. Ural resident
    Ural resident 1 February 2018 10: 51
    12
    Lord. My grandfather was shot in 37.
    Our whole family was working - but the grandfather before the revolution also led the church choir.
    was an ordinary working Russian family. After the revolution, everyone was rebuilt and began to work further under the new government. Grandfather worked as a teacher at school, taught peasant children in Altai.
    Once his son 13 years old, my father jokingly played the piano in the school "God Save the Tsar."
    Two days later, my grandfather was taken away, and after another three they were shot by the decision of the military tribunal.
    The family was told that he had been taken to the capital before the trial - they were looking for a long time, no one knew that after 3 there was no day for him.
    All this in 89. told the KGB officer who came to us with all the documents on rehabilitation and an apology. Material compensation was allocated, which we completely sent to the construction of the monument to the repressed. Therefore, all the talk about the fact that everyone was shot for the case, leave, gentlemen to yourself.
    In general, with this I do not feel hatred for the Soviet state. I grew up in the Soviet Union, I am nostalgic and proud of it, and the collapse of it painfully perceived, like most. Stalin can only be blamed for the fact that under him there was a system that allowed people to be shot without trial and investigation, but the actions were then carried out by ordinary people. They wrote denunciations, arrested them - the same neighbors and ordinary people, like everyone else. Here the question is more about humanity.
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 1 February 2018 13: 00
      +8
      Good comment. My mom’s family suffered too. But to pour mud at that time neither they nor I thought of. And here you are right, for some reason, why all the “historians” lose sight of the notorious human factor. Brand Stalin. I won’t believe that the orders for the executions of all 700 thousand were signed personally by Stalin.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 1 February 2018 14: 12
        +2
        Quote: Okolotochny
        I won’t believe that the orders for the executions of all 700 thousand were signed personally by Stalin.

        But didn’t Stalin really know about these figures, about these statistics? He didn’t wonder where so many executions were from ?????? What is the reason? That is, he has executions all over the country, but he doesn’t know? And the deportation of peoples? Only the operation "lentils" of what is it worth, was he also not in the know? By the way, one historian recently uttered nonsense justifying the repressions against the Caucasians, so then in the end he apologized to the whole country when he arrived in Ingushetia.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 1 February 2018 15: 53
        +3
        There are 383 such lists where his signature is. They include 44,5 thousand names. The lists are grouped into 11 volumes and arranged in chronological order from February 27, 1937 to September 29, 1938. An exception in the chronology refers to two lists of 1936 without exact dates erroneously filed with lists of the end of 1937. In addition, there are five more such lists for January and September 1940, January 1942, March and April 1950, containing 1125 names. Here's what it looks like:
        and here so:

        This is already a list of the 41st year, but also for the counter-revolution! Stalin's signature in blue pencil!
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 1 February 2018 17: 17
          +7
          But didn’t Stalin really know about these figures, about these statistics? He didn’t wonder where so many executions were from ?????? What is the reason? That is, he has executions all over the country, but he doesn’t know? And the deportation of peoples?

          Yes, I knew. But ... were the Field Courts in the Russian Empire also legal? Emperor, Stolypin did not know about them? Are punitive actions legal?
          And you still did not understand what was written by me and the previous colleague - when will we stop covering ourselves with shit? Coating different periods of history do we coat ourselves? On May 9 everyone is proud of the Victory, of the people under the leadership of Stalin, proud of the victories of Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov. By the way, at a critical moment, Stalin mentioned them in a speech, we are proud of the "attack of the dead" of the imperial army in Osovets. Enough already?
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 2 February 2018 07: 16
            0
            "Yes, I knew. But ... The Military Courts in the Russian Empire were also legal? The emperor, Stolypin did not know about them? Are punitive actions legal?"

            What a strange logic! If you eat shit somewhere, then we can. It justifies us!
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 4 February 2018 14: 32
              +4
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, do not snatch phrases out of the general sense and turn them over. I wrote to the fact that someone, idealizing the rule of the Romanovs, was trampling the period of the USSR in the mud. There are no right-wingers in the Civil War. Remember Putin’s speech about the events in Georgia, in Yugoslavia? The general message that both parties to the conflict committed crimes (from the side of the law). Here the situation is similar. If you do not agree, then prove by facts that the Bolsheviks are criminals, and the whites are white and fluffy. But the sack did not expect this. You are a historian.
      3. BAI
        BAI 1 February 2018 21: 48
        +2
        My mother-in-law is repressed. Together with her mother, the wife of the “enemy of the people” was sent as a child from the Moscow Region to Central Asia. "Enemy of the people" - sat down on a denunciation of a joke. But she never showed and does not show hatred for Stalin and the USSR.
    2. captain
      captain 1 February 2018 20: 36
      +2
      Quote: A resident of the Urals
      Lord. My grandfather was shot in 37.
      Our whole family was working - but the grandfather before the revolution also led the church choir.
      was an ordinary working Russian family. After the revolution, everyone was rebuilt and began to work further under the new government. Grandfather worked as a teacher at school, taught peasant children in Altai.
      Once his son 13 years old, my father jokingly played the piano in the school "God Save the Tsar."
      Two days later, my grandfather was taken away, and after another three they were shot by the decision of the military tribunal.
      The family was told that he had been taken to the capital before the trial - they were looking for a long time, no one knew that after 3 there was no day for him.
      All this in 89. told the KGB officer who came to us with all the documents on rehabilitation and an apology. Material compensation was allocated, which we completely sent to the construction of the monument to the repressed. Therefore, all the talk about the fact that everyone was shot for the case, leave, gentlemen to yourself.
      In general, with this I do not feel hatred for the Soviet state. I grew up in the Soviet Union, I am nostalgic and proud of it, and the collapse of it painfully perceived, like most. Stalin can only be blamed for the fact that under him there was a system that allowed people to be shot without trial and investigation, but the actions were then carried out by ordinary people. They wrote denunciations, arrested them - the same neighbors and ordinary people, like everyone else. Here the question is more about humanity.

      I believe you. And I believe in your sincerity because of sadness about the USSR. And I don’t believe people like Varangians and others who like to shoot all dissenters.
  19. gorgo
    gorgo 1 February 2018 11: 21
    0
    Quote: Boris55
    I took a little photoshop:

    I apologize. "Staying in office" and "board" are not at all the same thing. When did Stalin gain real power (if any)? This is a question. In 30? In 37? Do you think that the same GDP, having received the keys to the presidential cabinet, instantly began to resolve all issues? And now he has full power?
  20. gorgo
    gorgo 1 February 2018 11: 26
    +2
    Quote: Boris55
    Quote: Alex_59
    I am not fond of esotericism and alternative history, sorry.

    And it is right. Just look at the statistics.

    I think that when speaking of the fact that the repressions were “worse”, Bober1982 did not mean “more by the number of repressed”. What the Trotskyists did in the country, starting with the civil war and then through the 20 in the 30, is scary not only by quantity, but also by inhuman cruelty. Remember the same "countrywoman" (the hand does not rise with a capital letter to write the name). Remember the corpses of junkers and "officers" lying in Kiev in the Mariinsky Park with carved crosses. Remember the crucified priests. Can this be called "political repression"? No, but it will be worse ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 1 February 2018 13: 45
      +2
      But they always tried not to mention this - not under Khrushchev, and even more so during perestroika times, and even now they are reluctant to talk about it.
  21. surovts.valery
    surovts.valery 1 February 2018 13: 53
    +7
    Finally, do not miss another very interesting nuance. A significant part of the Soviet citizens repressed under Stalin was made up of senior officials of the party and the Soviet state, including law enforcement and security agencies.

    It brought me when I visited our capital on the street. Pokrovka (searched and visited the Tea Height cafe) to find it poked in a series of gates into the courtyards of street houses. I noticed that on the walls of the arches of houses there are signs with the names of I.O., who lived in these houses and were repressed in the 30s. (Memorial tried) so what immediately caught my eye was the profession or post repressed- supply man. And more than once. So how many of them are really “innocently affected by the Tyrant,” or just thieves - “robbers of socialist property”?
    1. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 1 February 2018 14: 58
      +4
      Well, about the supply, it’s Peter I to blame! this is his proposal to hang on a rope, if stolen no less than its value
    2. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 15: 06
      +3
      Quote: surovts.valery
      what immediately caught my eye was the profession or position of the repressed, the supply man.

      According to the attributed A.V. Suvorov, every quartermaster who has served for a year, can be hung. Without trial. I don’t know if Suvorov said this, but I agree with this opinion.
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 25
        +5
        What a bloodthirsty you are. It’s good that God didn’t give horns to the cow. And then someone knocks a thread on your father or wife, they say, they complained about low pensions, they are at the expense of State Deputies spies, and you, go, you will be categorically for it. For the party cannot be mistaken.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 1 February 2018 15: 45
      +4
      And if you look at the Martyrology of clergy convicts in the Penza region, then the main contingent will not be on priests, but on nuns, women !!! Surely they were so dangerous to the Soviet regime?
      1. captain
        captain 1 February 2018 20: 44
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        And if you look at the Martyrology of clergy convicts in the Penza region, then the main contingent will not be on priests, but on nuns, women !!! Surely they were so dangerous to the Soviet regime?

        Dear kalibr. You do not understand the soul of true Leninists. Once in a cassock, it means against us. And once against the wall. They fired, as Trotsky said, so that they would be afraid. Stalin was right in terms of cleaning the ranks of the party, army and Chekists from the true Leninists (and Trotsky and his sidekick called themselves true Leninists). These are Russophobes. You will read the comments of some, sons and grandchildren of “Soviet” officers and “workers”. They are now ready for everyone to the wall, who do not share their views.
        /
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 1 February 2018 22: 13
          +1
          60% of the peasants were Russophobes too? They are the number of more than 800 thousand executed. Simple men and women !!!
          1. captain
            captain 2 February 2018 00: 31
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            60% of the peasants were Russophobes too? They are the number of more than 800 thousand executed. Simple men and women !!!

            Read those carefully what I am writing about, what do the peasants have to do with it. They were precisely destroyed by the true Leninists, whom the leader of the peoples then took control of. For those who shot them, these men and women were holdimords. Lenin wrote about this.
    4. Looking for
      Looking for 2 February 2018 00: 43
      +1
      Gaidai’s film “can’t be”, remember? This is where the lower-level supplier is shown. Imagine how the capital's suppliers stole.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 2 February 2018 07: 18
        0
        All those who were executed were procurers!
  22. Woldemar
    Woldemar 1 February 2018 15: 35
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    Demography collapsed, since 1964 - depopulation

    what nonsense are you talking about? from the 64th to the 90th year, the population of the RSFSR grew from 125 to 148 million people
    I don’t even want to answer the rest, insanity is rushing from all cracks
  23. kalibr
    kalibr 1 February 2018 15: 42
    +3
    Quote: Boris55
    The repression ended when Stalin managed to put Beria on the post.

    And in the 41-0th, near Kuibyshev, who was shot according to the orders of both?
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 1 February 2018 17: 37
      +1
      To you, the right question is, “Who?”
  24. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 1 February 2018 16: 02
    +5
    From 1921 to 1956, 642980 people were sentenced to VMN. What are there millions for 37-38 years?
    1. Anton Yu
      Anton Yu 1 February 2018 16: 18
      +4
      to 1954.
    2. Gopnik
      Gopnik 1 February 2018 16: 53
      +1
      and who is talking about the millions of people executed by sentence?
      1. Anton Yu
        Anton Yu 1 February 2018 16: 55
        +1
        there are a lot of such people.
  25. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 1 February 2018 16: 19
    +6
    Meanwhile, data on repression are not secret and are determined by specific official figures, which are considered to be more or less accurate. They are indicated in a certificate drawn up on the instructions of N.S. Khrushchev in February 1954, the USSR Prosecutor General V. Rudenko, the Minister of Internal Affairs S. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice K. Gorshenin.

    The total number of convictions is 3 770 380. At the same time, the actual number of convicts is less, since quite many were convicted of different offenses, then covered by the notion of “Treason to the Motherland” several times. The total number of people affected by these repressions in 31 a year, according to various estimates, is about three million people.

    Of the 3 770 380 2 369 220 sentences that were mentioned, the sentences were served in prisons and camps, 765 180 - the link and expulsion, 642 980 - the death penalty (death penalty). Taking into account the sentences in other articles and on later studies, they also give another figure - about 800 000 death sentences, of which 700 thousands are executed.

    It should be noted that in the number of traitors to the Motherland everything was naturally placed, in one form or another cooperating with the German occupiers in the Great Patriotic War. In addition, this number also included thieves in law - because they refused to work in the camps: the camp administration qualified the refusal to work as sabotage, while sabotage was among the various forms of treason to the Motherland. Consequently, among the repressed several tens of thousands of thieves in law.
  26. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 1 February 2018 16: 26
    +4
    However, before the Khrushchev rehabilitation there was Beria rehabilitation. L.P. Beria, when he began accepting cases from N.I. Ezhov on 17 in November 1938, first of all ordered to stop all ongoing investigations under the article “Treason to the Motherland” and to suspend the execution of all death sentences already passed under this article, as well as sending people sentenced to expulsion. On November 25, finally taking office, he ordered a review of all convictions under this article, issued during the time that the Internal Affairs Commissar of Internal Affairs was headed by N.I. Yezhov. First of all, they reviewed all death sentences that had not yet been carried out, then they were engaged in non-death sentences.

    Before the start of World War II, they managed to review about a million convictions. Of these, approximately 200 thousand, plus or minus a couple of tens of thousands, were found to be completely unfounded (and, accordingly, those sentenced were immediately acquitted, rehabilitated and restored to their rights). About 250 thousand more sentences were recognized as purely criminal cases, qualified as political unreasonably.

    I can add another purely domestic option: let's say you dragged a sheet of iron at the factory to block your barn. This, naturally, qualifies as theft of state property under a purely criminal article. But if the plant where you work is defensive - then this may be considered not just a theft, but an attempt to undermine the state’s defense, and this is already one of the elements of the crime stipulated in the article “Treason to the Motherland”.

    In the period until LP. Beria performed the duties of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs, the practice of issuing criminal acts for politics and “political appendages” in purely criminal cases ceased. But 15 December 1945, he left this post, and with his successor, this practice resumed.
  27. kalibr
    kalibr 1 February 2018 16: 29
    +3
    Quote: Varyag_0711
    For me, the ideal is Comrade Stalin who created the most powerful superpower

    You have found a bad ideal for yourself! How did you decide that he created a powerful superpower? The most powerful ones do not fall apart in peacetime, with full ammunition of tanks and missiles! Ah, is it his heirs to blame? Feeding up, so to speak ... so be smart, don't keep fire in your bosom!
  28. seacap
    seacap 1 February 2018 17: 09
    +6
    Having a normal Soviet education, by the way, along with scientific communism at the 1st department, the fundamentals of philosophy and political economics were thoroughly studied in all the country's universities, which allows you to logically think and broaden your horizons, look at things from different angles, has long been about the personality of Stalin and the whole I have my own opinion about this hype. All this din, all these dances on the graves, all sorts of NGOs and the dreary mines of the Eliseevs and Solzhenitsyn and other so-called human rights defenders and “victims” began long ago and originated in Goebbels’s offices and the State Department’s offices, in order to discredit all the achievements and results of the activities of our leaders (a living example with Putin, nothing changes in this world), our history and the insignificance of our people and country. It is impossible to measure past events, possessing a modern mentality and modern realities of life, without experiencing them and not feeling on their own skin, not representing the fullness of the picture. The modern 17-year-old schoolchild will not tell you anything intelligible about the 90s, etc. about the 80s, only your ideas from films like "Brother" or "Boomer" etc., but about the socialist period from the modern ones, saturated with anti-Soviet and wretchedness. Now imagine, even based on modern realities (by the way, very similar) since the 20s, and Stalin, like Beria, began to possess power only at the end of the 38th, therefore the repressions attributed to him in 36-38 are not correct, a country without an economy, without a banking system, without normal state bodies, the struggle for power and influence, not in the stands, but in assassinations and killings, flooded with foreign agents and a gang underground, with a totally illiterate population, devastation and famine, the highest crime, in a complete international blockade of openly hostile, actively carrying out subversive work to destroy and destroy the state. After 20 years, a leading industrial power with a rapid pace of development, with advanced science and universal literacy, a close-knit, patriotic and active society. Watch a newsreel of those years, simply filmed cities and parks, look at the faces of the “oppressed and repressed people frightened to death”, compare them with modern shootings of a city street, modern faces or just take a closer look while walking around the city, the difference is immediately apparent. Again from the chronicle why there are such crowds and crying adults at Stalin’s funeral, they seem to have got rid of the "bloody tyrant", and they don’t even grieve for their relatives, or that our people and stupid people, all without exception, did not see and did not know? Everyone saw and knew, as now, nothing on this issue never changes, that's why they mourned because they knew what and whom they lost, who passed away. The methods and laws of war and struggle at that time were such, and even today they remained such, only became more sophisticated and varnished. the struggle for power and for the murder of a great power, for the opportunity to rob the country, have a little boat and a yacht, for the opportunity to lick Uncle Sam's shoes or stand in the hallway, for the sake of the overseas master, we have destroyed the people here now, but not with bullets and hard labor, more sophisticated and meaner-only according to conservative estimates of more than 10 mln.
  29. seacap
    seacap 1 February 2018 17: 16
    +1
    Quote: gorgo
    Quote: Boris55
    I took a little photoshop:

    I apologize. "Staying in office" and "board" are not at all the same thing. When did Stalin gain real power (if any)? This is a question. In 30? In 37? Do you think that the same GDP, having received the keys to the presidential cabinet, instantly began to resolve all issues? And now he has full power?

    You would, dear, stop all overseas to look into a country that is now foreign to you, and look around at home. And it became impossible to communicate, as the conversation goes about Ukraine, you immediately begin to provide imaginary data about Russia, and everyone is trying to get into it, Take part. Enough to climb into the neighboring garden and indicate, take care of yours, already weeds are weeds.
  30. VladGashek
    VladGashek 1 February 2018 20: 10
    +2
    Too often the subject of repression is pedaling. Each state has had such tragic periods, but no one draws evaluative conclusions from this about the system of power. Solzhenitsyn saddled this topic in the GREAT DECADE of NIKITA SERGEEVICH, who was haunted by the merits of the ITT. He wanted the laurels of the builder of SOCIALISM (the decision of the Х1Х Congress on the complete and final construction of socialism) and the forerunner of COMMUNISM (the decision of the ХХ Congress on "you live under communism"). Therefore, it is necessary to take into account the historical aspect in the repressions of the 30-40s. Remember this time from books, films, memoirs. We must also take into account the historical circumstances of the endless play-offs of the theme of repression in our glorious bourgeois days. Repressions were a fact. Innocent repressed were also a fact. But why and for what purpose were the repressions? This question needs an answer.
  31. BAI
    BAI 1 February 2018 21: 56
    +2
    Pedaling the theme of repressions and Stalin’s defenders, his accusers play oddly in the same gate - to the glory of the opponents of Russia.
    But there was famine in Ukraine!
    - There was a famine. But there was no famine in the Ukraine as genocide. And nobody hid this from us. But in 1988, the US Congress for the first time accused Russia of widespread famine in Ukraine, as a man-made phenomenon. Then even a special commission of the congress was established to investigate the "famine in Ukraine."
    - That is, the myth of the Holodomor was born in the USA? Why do they need this?
    - In the United States thus form a historical memory. Americans in general are more fond of counting other people's dead than their own.
  32. Evgenijus
    Evgenijus 1 February 2018 22: 13
    +1
    What about the executed Orthodox priests in the article silent. Their crimes as qualified?
    He opened his priest church on Sunday, picked up the gospel ... get shot. This was called KPA. But there was no law forbidding the reading of the Gospel. Most likely, Stalin’s policy on the complete destruction of the Orthodox Church can be traced. He coped with this task by almost 100%. Several metropolitans remained alive, the rest were destroyed. And simple priests killed hundreds. I'm not going to prove anything, in the archives of the NKVD all the statistics are there. An interesting point to tell. When reviewing the firing case of a priest, my spouse's grandfather, they refused to show the whole case in the archive, having closed many sheets of information. They shot him in 1938, and still secretly ...
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 2 February 2018 00: 27
      +3
      Quote: Evgenijus
      What about the executed Orthodox priests in the article silent. Their crimes as qualified?
      He opened his priest church on Sunday, picked up the gospel ... get shot. This was called KPA. But there was no law forbidding the reading of the Gospel. Most likely, Stalin’s policy on the complete destruction of the Orthodox Church can be traced. He coped with this task by almost 100%. Several metropolitans remained alive, the rest were destroyed. And simple priests killed hundreds. I'm not going to prove anything, in the archives of the NKVD all the statistics are there. An interesting point to tell. When reviewing the firing case of a priest, my spouse's grandfather, they refused to show the whole case in the archive, having closed many sheets of information. They shot him in 1938, and still secretly ...


      And were the priests "white and fluffy"?

    2. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 04: 16
      +1
      They shot him at 1938, and it’s still secret ...

      They shot him directly in the brain, but not him.
      I’m not going to prove anything, all the statistics are in the archives of the NKVD.

      So this is ordinary slander. You don’t know what is in the archives, which means that this is an unfounded accusation of a homegrown propagandist.
      in the archive they refused to show the whole thing, having closed many sheets from acquaintance.

      KR will not be secret. Friends, too, watched things without any problems. Your wife’s grandfather may have walked through the opera house and there are data on other people in closed sheets. In our country, the law on the protection of personal data, No. 152-ФЗ is in force.
      1. Evgenijus
        Evgenijus 2 February 2018 09: 56
        +2
        My version of not admitting to the archives is that in the personal files of the executed there are the names and surnames of those who shot. Therefore, it is highly likely that those who had their grandparents who were awarded for “diligence” in carrying out the orders of the NKVD were related, now occupy high positions in the State Duma, the Government and also in leading posts of major political parties. They don’t have to have such grandfathers. I still do not understand the secrecy of the Katyn tragedy, I don’t understand why the Prosecutor General’s Office classified the investigation materials.
        Now, about the commentators on my page. The viciousness of their statements also confirms my theory about the concealment of those who participated in the shootings. Yes, about the personal file of the executed grandfather-priest. In fact there are lists of people who have slandered the priest, their explanatory with the same text for all, as if they were writing dictation in the school class. There are names and signatures of members of the troika and investigators. Copies of these sheets I have in stock. Closed sheets of the personal file may contain information about the torture used to the arrested person for issuing evidence convenient for the investigation. I have no other explanation.
        Yes, about libel - the personal files of the victims of the Stalinist repressions refute this. The hour is not far when all that is hidden will be revealed, and our offspring will judge us. Whether it will be in the person to be in the role of those who went to the history of grandfathers, whose clothes in each of their “working days” were in the blood. Digging in historical archives is aimed at preventing such tragic events that occurred in the last century. In Poland, a law was recently passed on the punishment of denying the crimes of Bandera. And we still have a little ...
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 2 February 2018 16: 26
          +1
          Very convenient answer. "Poland has recently passed a law on punishability in denying the crimes of Bandera." Are you equal to the Bandera NKVD? "The closed files of the personal file may contain data on the torture applied to the arrested person in order to issue evidence convenient for the investigation. I have no other explanation." Everything is possible. In these matters, the main angle of view. You have it sharpened at a certain angle. This is uncurable.
          1. Evgenijus
            Evgenijus 2 February 2018 17: 27
            0
            I would like from you to get an answer to my version of the secrecy of the materials of the NKVD in a purely Russian language, very clearly and distinctly, and not nongosit.
            You still have Bolshevik quirks, and not a clear answer. I hope served in the army? So show it in response. Here there is a calm discussion, not a smoking room with a group of corporal at the barracks.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 29
              +1
              Answers, you do not need, you already know everything. And, about "gundosit", is this to maintain a "calm discussion"? So I say, Bandera, he is Bandera, under which he would not dress up.
              1. Evgenijus
                Evgenijus 2 February 2018 18: 53
                0
                It is unparable.

                This is what I thought of as a noose. I didn’t see anything like that in Russian. If you hurt you with this, so forgive me. I do not demand an answer, I expressed an opinion on the topic, but in response to my opinion - SORTS! Here I am on the example of my grandfather and answered. And the question was asked about the secrecy of the investigation of the Katyn tragedy. Maybe someone will answer, suddenly the Attorney General will be granted to come down to our forum.
  33. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 23: 22
    +5
    After the victory of the revolution over the counter-revolution, the counter-revolution does not disappear anywhere, but on the contrary, inevitably begins a new, even more desperate struggle. In Russia, failing to win the open battle of the civil war, the counter-revolution launched a sabotage, gangster struggle. Gangs were on the territory of Russia, and also raided from abroad, but The Cheka and the Red Army eliminated them.
    But another very sharp, implacable, often hidden, was deployed, and therefore very dangerous ideological struggle. Against the Bolshevik line of the party, against the building of socialism, the country was opposed as unfinished enemies - representatives of the overthrown exploiting classes, so hidden enemies, hiding behind a party card. They opposed industrialization, against collectivization, excited the illiterate mass of peasants, calling for a boycott of the collective farm movement.
    As a result, at the turn of the 20-30s a real civil war unfolded in the village. The kulaks spoke openly, it passed on to vigorous actions: they killed communists, Komsomol members, non-partisan activists, poisoned livestock, destroyed mowing. The famine of 1933 was also on their conscience - it was they who urged to slaughter cattle and sow less, they were supported by enemies with party cards, located in the local leadership.
    Therefore, the party began re-registration of party members, and the company began cleaning. Of course, there were some excesses and mistakes, as well as open sabotage. There were many hidden enemies in the NKVD and in the party organs who slandered honest communists, activists concocted cases on them, and brought them under execution articles. The time will come and an objective verification of all the repressed will be carried out, because the rehabilitation that was carried out under Khrushchev and Gorbachev cannot be trusted. There was a sweeping excuse for everyone on the list, including those responsible.
    My classmate, under Gorbachev, worked in the KGB and told how they rehabilitated one former head of the district department of the NKVD, he was convicted as a wrecker for embezzlement, and he died in prison. Rehabilitation took place in two minutes. The chairman of the commission very “convincingly” proved that the head is a victim of Stalinist arbitrariness, because he had nothing to steal - in his office at that time there was only a safe, a cupboard, a table and two chairs.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 February 2018 07: 26
      +1
      The main conclusion is that they turned out to be stronger. That is, Marx was right - the revolution of half-educated men and women cannot win in a single country, let alone in a country like Russia. As a result, the attempt costing blood and mass of victims failed, and all the smarter ones licked all the cream from the experiment.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 2 February 2018 08: 03
        +3
        In 1917 ---- they were not allowed to destroy the country, despite the blood and sacrifices
        In the Second World War ------ they were not allowed to defeat the USSR.
        Since 1967 --- they have become trickier.
        And all the cream of betrayal of the 90s was licked by those who licked from enemies.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 2 February 2018 18: 26
          0
          Dmitry, and if you consider yourself a believer, a Christian, then you should generally remember the Ecclesiastes covenant - "a living dog is better than a dead lion!".
          The Japanese Shintoists say differently - "the one who bends down can straighten up" The Japanese, having lost the war, were under US occupation and, as you write, licked at the enemies. And where is Japan now, and where are we who "didn’t lick"? The mass of pensioners lives on 7.600 rubles, and 7,800 is paid for an apartment, that is, they are forced to work or rent housing. Maybe you should not lick, learn? How did Lenin write? "Recognize your lack of culture and go on to learn capitalism!" But we are always with a mustache ourselves ... well, but we are sitting in the anal!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 3 February 2018 04: 41
            +1
            Here is a constant juggling. You, of course, are not in the know, but people show their documents, if in our city the minimum pension is 10000, then the rent is in the houses of the last century, where mainly pensioners from 3 to 6000 live. Someone is renting out what? They are renting out excess area. And where is the surplus from? From socialism !!!!!!
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 3 February 2018 07: 33
              +1
              The excesses of socialism - the Khrushchev and Brezhnevka - ha ha! Achievement. Harlem!
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 3 February 2018 11: 52
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                The excesses of socialism - the Khrushchev and Brezhnevka - ha ha! Achievement. Harlem!
                Well, why are you so about your apartment? After all, this property one way or another has six zeros and you received it as an inheritance from socialism. In my opinion, under capitalism you have not expanded.
                Khrushcheba and bzhezhnkvki loved in rent, since it is cheaper. But they are a small part in the city, and in rent also, in comparison with the houses of other series built under socialism, an already improved layout. The construction of Khrushchev began 12 years after the Second World War and helped to solve the housing problems of many people. Of course, you don’t know that during the Second World War 1710 cities and urban-type settlements and more than 70 villages and villages were destroyed on Soviet territory
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 02: 16
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        That is, Marx was right - the revolution of half-educated men and women cannot win in a single country, let alone in a country like Russia.

        Dear, you are not confusing anything?
        Firstly, K. Marx and F. Engels very much appreciated the revolutionary potential of Russia, for example, they wrote the preface to the Russian edition of the “Manifesto of the Communist Party” (1882): “Now he (meaning the tsar - A. Green ) - a prisoner of war of revolution contained in Gatchina, and Russia is the forefront of the revolutionary movement in Europe».
        Secondly, you know that everything new is breaking the road hard. History testifies: in spite of the fact that during the transition from feudalism to capitalism bourgeois production relations arose even in the bowels of feudalism and existed there in the form of an economic structure, even bourgeois revolutions did not immediately establish their power. Their victory was interspersed with the restoration of the monarchy, examples of the English and French bourgeois revolutions, the establishment of capitalism took more than one century, an entire erawhile socialist relations in the depths of capitalism are not arising, and very little peace was allotted for the construction of socialism.
        But socialism in the USSR, although it suffered a temporary defeat, it opened a new era, and in the world and now there are a number of countries developing along the socialist path. So it's not evening yet.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 3 February 2018 04: 55
          +2
          Alexander! Here the thing is different: Ah, the illiterate failed.! And no! It was under that power that after 20 years the country could no longer be recognized --- industrialization, education, population growth !!!!! And after the war ---- the restoration of the national economy and after 12 years satellites, and then Yuri Gagarin! But now now, with total literacy and 2-3 higher educations in 27 years, the level of 90x has not been reached! But there are those who studied at Harvard and Oxford. The country is alive and survived only thanks to the Soviet inheritance!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 3 February 2018 07: 29
            0
            But we go to foreign cars! And we can choose where to live and where to earn. That salaries and pensions in the civil service for low-level workers are still small. But you can compensate. And Gagarin, companions ... God be with them. There was no sense from them, with a pension of 28 rubles, and this was received in 1961 by many. And how is it not reached the level of the 90s? Full of private houses, very good, apartments in very nice houses. In Penza, we have the whole city of Sputnik from mortgage housing and what kind of housing. What level do you need? Lots of tanks? So no tanks make the country strong. In the 91st, they did not help! And then 27 years, not 74 years - wait and see what happens!
            1. chenia
              chenia 3 February 2018 10: 06
              +3
              The country (USSR) increased every ten years by 25 million person. Feed, clothe, put on shoes, provide work and housing. This is a load.
              And half the world was still fed.

              Now turn on your head and compare.

              Half of the oil’s gas production (and the income from them in Russia, and is not shared with anyone), the population is also two times smaller and does not grow. And energy prices. So much for relative well-being.
              But Russia does not pull out half of the industrial production of the USSR.

              Rђ RІRѕS, "efficiency" capitalism is Ukraine (and there was science, industry).
              What say this?

              1. kalibr
                kalibr 3 February 2018 13: 45
                0
                Let’s say that I don’t care what happened before, what is now is important to me. Then there was not all that I needed. Now there is. Again, not all, but more than before. Say - and thanks for that! And about the great achievements - it's in the museum!
                1. chenia
                  chenia 3 February 2018 14: 23
                  +2
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Let's say that I don’t care what happened before, what matters is what is now


                  What problems? Warmed ass, your right. You went to the branch (there is no ban), but as an argument to "I don't care."
                  And this is a person who taught others how to work with sources and analyze them.
                  If there is nothing to say, it’s better to deal with an earlier story - there really, you have a really good time there.
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 15: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Let’s say that I don’t care what happened before, what is now is important to me. Then there was not all that I needed

                  I got the impression that here on the forum only you have benefited from the restoration of capitalism and the destruction of the USSR, effectively serving the boarder authorities.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 3 February 2018 20: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Let’s say that I don’t care what happened before, what is now is important to me. Then there was not all that I needed

                    I got the impression that here on the forum only you have benefited from the restoration of capitalism and the destruction of the USSR, effectively serving the boarder authorities.

                    Here you are, Alexander got very sick of this !!!!!! But Iya got sick too !!!!! But the fact is that I thought that if someone is a pensioner, then in general a very old person! And then it suddenly dawned on me that, if an employee of 1954, then retired 4 years ago !!!!! That is, for about more than 20 years, such an employee worked for the state not socialist, but vice versa! KAPITAKLISM defended, served faithfully !!!! So what? Where is the capital-pension pension of 1000 €, or at least $ 1000? And nobody really thought to say about it, that the democratic state and the Yeltsinoids are to blame for everything? Apparently, I and other normal forum users are too busy being, do not focus, do not write carefully. We can not notice a simple weight.! Sadness!
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 15: 30
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              But we go to foreign cars!

              You tell the workers and employees, they will turn you along with a foreign car.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 20: 06
                +2

                Quote: Alexander Green
                Quote: kalibr
                But we go to foreign cars!

                For those who think that an increase in car sales is an indicator of the economic efficiency of the country and people. This indicator is not wealth, but the poverty of the country and people. In reality, it is rich in a country where there are not many private cars, but in which public transport is perfectly developed, accessible to absolutely everyone. The increase in sales of personal cars is directly related to the destruction of public transport in Russia and to car loans, which by no means indicate the viability of those who are forced to buy cars to get to work.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 3 February 2018 12: 05
            +3
            I admitted a problem ---- 2-3 higher education, Oxford, Harvard and the Higher School of Economics ----- this is the lot of senior government officials, not ordinary people. And with this kind of education, they have not been able to figure out how to increase their pension to 1000 € with such natural resources and the cessation of assistance to the socialist camp countries and other developing countries! Not a country owes pensions of 7000, small salaries, but such educated officials.
  34. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 2 February 2018 13: 26
    +1
    Stalin was short, and Yezhov was very small with him. Was he 1m 50 with a cap, this head of the NKVD? And this stingray kept such a country in awe.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 February 2018 18: 27
      0
      Very short. And accordingly, the copulative organ - bye-bye. Hence the complexes and the desire to show everyone. Showed!
  35. kalibr
    kalibr 2 February 2018 18: 36
    0
    Quote: Sergei Medvedev
    Supporter of humanism, universal values

    And you are against humanism, right? Interesting? Strong arm supporter? And how will this very hand grab you by the testicles? Whereas?
    1. tasha
      tasha 5 February 2018 14: 49
      +1
      How how .. On the face of the supporters of a strong hand appears sincere bewilderment .. "And me for what?"
      Almost in topic quote from my favorite:

      There was a noise behind the purple curtain, brother Aba looked around displeased. Father Tsupik, smiling ominously, rose slowly.
      “Well, that’s all, my sovereigns! ..” he began gaily and gloatingly.
      Three people jumped out from behind the curtains, whom Rumata least expected to see here. Father Tsupik, apparently, too. These were hefty monks in black robes with hoods pulled over their eyes. They quickly and silently jumped to Father Zupik and took him by the elbows.
      “Ah ... um ...” mumbled Father Tsupik. His face was covered with mortal pallor. Surely he expected something completely different.
      “What do you think, brother Aba?” Don Reba calmly inquired, leaning toward the fat man.
      - Well, of course! - he resolutely answered. - Undoubtedly!
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 5 February 2018 23: 28
        +1
        Humanism can manifest itself in different ways. Here are some humanists who consider eftanasia to be the most humane thing. But humanism can take very extreme forms and be enforced
  36. kalibr
    kalibr 3 February 2018 07: 24
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    But socialism in the USSR, although it suffered a temporary defeat, it opened a new era, and in the world and now there are a number of countries developing along the socialist path. So it's not evening yet.


    Beggars of rogue countries, which for no one need anyone and certainly are not an example! Is that negative.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 15: 35
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Beggars of rogue countries, which for no one need anyone and certainly are not an example! Is that negative.

      It’s negative for you, and millions of workers from different countries - an example.
  37. Dmitry Tantsyura
    Dmitry Tantsyura 6 February 2018 11: 30
    +1
    I don’t even know, Ukrainians will most likely hang all the corpses from the age of 14.
  38. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 6 February 2018 14: 46
    +1
    If we talk about the victims of political repression, then the vast majority of those convicted under the anti-Soviet article were just saboteurs, spies, organizers and members of armed and underground groups and organizations acting against the Soviet regime.


    Well, of course - quietly shot and thrown into the mines - socialist legality in action.
    Arrested - a few days later shot. Court? Lawyer? Defense, Excuse? Why - the "troika" knows better - there is no person, no problem.
    Only after the lapse of years did they begin to reveal traces of "socialist legality", the criminal activity of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Stalin and his henchmen.

    Zolotaya Gora (Chelyabinsk) several mines filled with layers of remains shot in the basements of the NKVD in the Southern Urals.
    Until now, they have not bothered to exhume and establish how many and who have been dumped like cattle into mines — the complete disregard of the modern authorities for the crimes of Stalin and his accomplices.

    They do not want to stir up the past - there is no person no problem ...
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 February 2018 00: 22
      +2
      Quote: DimerVladimer
      Zolotaya Gora (Chelyabinsk) several mines filled with layers of remains shot in the basements of the NKVD in the Southern Urals.

      Did you come up with the example of the youth guards? And what were unnecessary in the 30s? And what is the depth of the mines? And what is this photo, is it really a descent into the mine? Really from all over the Southern Urals brought here?
      1. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer 20 July 2018 12: 56
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Did you come up with the example of the youth guards? And what were unnecessary in the 30s? And what is the depth of the mines? And what is this photo, is it really a descent into the mine? Really from all over the Southern Urals brought here?


        These are former gold mines, abandoned - 17 pieces, with a depth of 37 to 8 meters, most are completely filled with the bodies of the executed:
        was initiated by the prosecutor's office of the Chelyabinsk region on July 26, 1989 "upon the discovery of an unmarked burial of people in Chelyabinsk on the Golden Mountain." This case was for some time in the proceedings of the senior assistant prosecutor of the Chelyabinsk region, Alexander Demin. “They were only shot in the internal prison of the UNKVD,” the deputy head of the KGB department in the Chelyabinsk region, a former party worker Anatoly Surkov, was clearly bustling about. Prosecutor Demin, on the contrary, believed that there were executions both in prisons and executions directly on the Golden Mountain - as if regular and contingency situations of the personality cult. But at the same time, Alexander Vasilievich was always firmly convinced that people repressed by the NKVD were really buried in the galleries of the abandoned mines of the Golden Mountain


        And on November 5, 1990, proceedings on the “foul smelling” case for the party nomenclature were generally suspended under paragraph 3 of Art. 195 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the RSFSR - “for failure to identify the person to be involved as an accused.” So the prosecutor’s investigators signed that they failed to “trace the path of at least one repressed from home - to the Golden Mountain” with the help of documents. Not to hem the materials of the criminal case that they said that at one of the rallies in the UNKVD they allegedly expressed such an expressive bossy assessment: “The blood of our enemies is pouring badly in the Chelyabinsk region, here’s another thing in Sverdlovsk, there’s really blood flowing in the river ... "

        Prosecutors did not hide the fact that cases of the repressed were really stored in the KGB. But this was not enough for the investigation, because the “execution” cases end with a certificate stating that “the sentence has been carried out.” It turned out that no one could present any paper where it was written that such and such people were victims of repression and that they were buried on the Golden Mountain. And without such paper, how can one investigate such crimes that are clearly undesirable for publicity? Investigators allegedly searched for such documents in the KGB and did not find them. As A.V. said Demin: “The investigation into the Golden Mountain henceforth refused to search for such documentary evidence”
        True, some names of the intelligence developments of the Chelyabinsk NKVD of the 30s nevertheless leaked to the press thanks to the efforts of local historian Alexei Yalovenko: “BOCHKARI” according to the Obleskhimdrevsoyuz; "GRAIN KEY" and "FLOUR WOMES" - on collective farmers; "MIKHAILISHCHEVS" - according to the Trotskyists; "SOCIETIES" - according to the clergy; “LESSONS”, “HEAVENLY ROT” - according to sectarians (terrorism); intelligence developments "SHAHEREZADA", "ROOTS" - according to supposedly Polish spies; undercover developments “PECHATNIKI”, “ALIENS”, “COMBINE” - for the concealment of bread by collective farmers-saboteurs; “ANTI-FARMERS”, “ORGANIZERS”, “TAILS”, “KOLCHAKOVSY”, “GREEN”, “HARBINS”, “MICROBIOLOGISTS”, “UKRAINIANS”, “OFFENDED” - according to counter-revolutionaries. All names of classified developments were taken from real orders of the NKVD in the Chelyabinsk region. All these undercover developments, as a rule, ended in the shooting of innocent people. There is a special discussion about the tragic fate of the agents of the NKVD who developed them. Many of them were also shot ...

        http://chelyabinsk.bezformata.ru/listnews/repress
        ii-na-yuzhnom-urale-pravda / 17001470 /
  39. Elena Fedorova
    Elena Fedorova 27 May 2019 23: 30
    0
    Alexander Isaevich Solzhenitsyn could not know the exact number of repressed, since he himself was repressed. He merely suggested the number of victims. Thank you so much for talking about the repression. Industrialization, the construction of new factories cannot justify the death and torment of the innocent victims of the bloody Stalinist terror.