Military Review

Are Chinese nuclear submarines too noisy?

115
US experts said Chinese nuclear submarines are too "noisy." They made such a conclusion after this month a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface in the East China Sea after two days of pursuit. For more than forty hours she was pursued by Japan’s self-defense forces, preventing the submarine from breaking away from the pursuit, Popular Mechanics reports


But experts do not exclude the possibility that this ascent could be an action carried out by the Chinese to specifically show the presence of these boats on navy, since during the ascent it was a huge Chinese flag.

Are Chinese nuclear submarines too noisy?


At present, there are six to 13 atomic submarines of the 093 Shan project in China’s service. They were developed in China to replace the outdated and relatively unreliable submarine torpedo boat of the 091 Han project class. The construction of the lead ship was started in 2001, and in 2015, the last boat of this project left it as it was supposed.

The boat is equipped with the latest Chinese sonar and torpedo weapons. Six 533-mm torpedo tubes are located in the bow of the ship. Of these, you can fire torpedoes (including the newest remote-controlled, as well as having a homing on the wake trail), anti-ship cruise missiles YJ-8-II (different from YJ-8 by the possibility of underwater launch and maximum range of fire, increased to 80 km) and, probably, underwater launch cruise missiles designed to engage ground targets.

The Chinese authorities, as usual, did not comment on the incident.
Photos used:
JAPAN MINISTRY OF DEFENSE
115 comments
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  1. Muvka
    Muvka 30 January 2018 15: 37 New
    +5
    Chinese technology in action. Which is to be expected ...
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 January 2018 15: 39 New
      25
      What do you know about the new Chinese technologies? And why did they come up? These new technologies will still give odds to our "newest and unparalleled in the world. I judge not even by military equipment, but by engineering products.
      Quote: Muvka
      Chinese technology in action. Which is to be expected ...
      1. win
        win 30 January 2018 15: 51 New
        +8
        What do you know about new Chinese technologies? And why did they come up?


        Or maybe they specifically "took fire on themselves," led the pursuit to the side.
        Or maybe it's such a tricky move? !! request
        1. Alf
          Alf 30 January 2018 22: 29 New
          0
          Quote: Siegen
          Or maybe it's such a tricky move? !!

          And about the concept of "thermocline" the Chinese submariners do not know anything?
          And why shouldn't the Chinese give full swing? With a course of more than 20 knots, anti-submariners jam themselves.
        2. In100gram
          In100gram 30 January 2018 23: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: Siegen
          Or maybe they specifically "took fire on themselves," led the pursuit to the side.

          So it’s worth considering why they surfaced. I don’t think what to give up. Perhaps it was quite the opposite, Yapis are also capable of lying.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 30 January 2018 16: 12 New
        +9
        The Chinese are great experts in scarecrows, rattles and firecrackers. Let yourself rattle so that the enemies are afraid. belay
        1. 210ox
          210ox 30 January 2018 17: 24 New
          12
          But they became great specialists in microelectronics, mechanical engineering, aerospace, and many others.
          Quote: siberalt
          The Chinese are great experts in scarecrows, rattles and firecrackers. Let yourself rattle so that the enemies are afraid. belay
      3. ImPerts
        ImPerts 30 January 2018 16: 24 New
        +4
        I remember in the media slipping articles that the Chinese offered to exchange technologies. They give us microelectronics, we give them an engine.
        As far as I know, the exchange did not take place.
        And I can conclude that the lag in microelectronics is not so critical compared with the lag in engine manufacturing.
        The same PD-35 is made for a joint wide-body airbus.
        Why China Sales market.
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 30 January 2018 17: 06 New
          +4
          Quote: ImPerts

          The same PD-35 is made for a joint wide-body airbus.
          Why China Sales market.


          Because. that China pays its share of development, respectively, receives all the R&D documentation.
          Also the entire routing.
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 31 January 2018 06: 00 New
            0
            China is a large market, which will allow the plant to work for a long time.
            And he pays the share, does not pay. They can’t do it.
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 31 January 2018 09: 25 New
              0
              Quote: ImPerts
              China is a large market, which will allow the plant to work for a long time.
              And he pays the share, does not pay. They can’t do it.


              Whoever dines on the girl dances her ...
              Sense from the girl if she is hungry ...
              1. ImPerts
                ImPerts 31 January 2018 11: 42 New
                0
                Quote: ZVO
                Whoever dines on the girl dances her ...

                FGFAs do with the Indians, but something they don’t dance ...
                1. ZVO
                  ZVO 31 January 2018 21: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ImPerts
                  Quote: ZVO
                  Whoever dines on the girl dances her ...

                  FGFAs do with the Indians, but something they don’t dance ...


                  They dance us, as if it were not unpleasant. but a fact.
                  1. ImPerts
                    ImPerts 1 February 2018 06: 00 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ZVO
                    They dance us, as if it were not unpleasant. but a fact.

                    Those. plan to transfer technology to them?
                    Quote: ImPerts
                    The same PD-35 is done

                    Quote: ZVO
                    Because. that China pays its share of development, respectively, receives all the R&D documentation.

                    Let's end the debate. PD-35 is done with our money. And 64 billion rubles is a confirmation of this.
                    The Chinese can not make a long-running engine. Can not.
                    And they will have to buy engines.
      4. Topotun
        Topotun 30 January 2018 17: 41 New
        +4
        In general, I would not be in a hurry to criticize China either. It could well "demonstrate the flag." So that the Japanese do not relax.
      5. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 30 January 2018 21: 27 New
        +5
        Quote: 210ox
        And why did they come up?

        Have you ever spent two days sitting in a barrel on which a sledgehammer is being knocked? Not? - Well, tady, oh!
        Quote: 210ox
        These new technologies will still give odds to our "latest and unparalleled in the world".
        Maybe you are right. But not in underwater shipbuilding ... At least not yet.
        Quote: 210ox
        I do not even judge by military equipment, but by engineering products.
        But is military equipment not a “mechanical engineering product”? Is it agricultural products?
        1. jjj
          jjj 30 January 2018 21: 47 New
          +8
          It seems that the news a lot of fiction. Why would the Japanese drive a Chinese boat in "international waters". Well, perhaps the Chinese stole something from the Japanese. And then, to keep in touch is not to launch depth charges. By an atomic boat, yes, in a region adjacent to his country. It would be better to write right away that a Chinese boat surfaced in the area of ​​the Japanese Navy exercises and demonstrated the flag, repeating the experience of Soviet submariners
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 30 January 2018 23: 46 New
            +5
            Quote: jjj
            Why would the Japanese drive a Chinese boat in "international waters".

            Yuri, hi! hi
            A sailor should know that if contact is made with an underwater target in his guards, then it can also be pursued in the waters of the open sea ... Therefore, the hunfuzs drove the 2 days ... And the fact that the Chinese rattle could not tear itself away from mobile forces PLO, speaks of tactical skill, endurance and level of means of GPA of the Celestial Empire. This is the first.
            Second. If khinchiks had everything “nice”, then their submarine nuclear fleet would float off the coast of Florida, as our units did ... In the meantime, 3 Wolf and 15 Moose guard all the straits and routes of the deployment of the Chinese fleet in (as you, dear, put it) in international waters. And this is the reality of today. Hinchiki themselves know about it. Therefore, we bought our 636.3, in order to somehow hide behind.
            I have the honor. soldier
            1. jjj
              jjj 31 January 2018 17: 22 New
              0
              Alexander, welcome!
              The discovered Chinese boat could well go under water to the base. No one would attack her. We didn’t attack a single American. Well, maybe by accident. On the other hand, the Chinese could also “outline” the tactics of the practical use of Japan's anti-aircraft missile using another boat
            2. Mih1974
              Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 30 New
              0
              The Chinese have only two options: a) peaceful - negotiate with us and "slip out" through our Kuril Islands. b) military - finally already finish tyagomotinu with Taiwan and get your free piece of access to the Pacific okian. good
        2. Mih1974
          Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 26 New
          0
          I believe that you are a specialist in "sitting in barrels on which a sledgehammer", but let me clarify the question - if I’m not mistaken now, the boats are "sheathed" with sound-absorbing quasi-rubber, which (it is reasonable to assume) works both ways, so what a fright it will be " like a barrel with a sledgehammer. " Well, and what is much more important - military discipline, if your boat is being chased and even sleepy, then I can only call "as a betrayal" the ascent, which is essentially for the submarines "throwing the white flag." fool . What could have prevented the Chinese from drowning in full steam into their waters, where the japas would definitely not have stuck behind them?
          1. jjj
            jjj 1 February 2018 13: 35 New
            0
            Alexander is a real submariner. Before his experience, you need to take off your hat. It is necessary to listen to his opinion.
      6. RASKAT
        RASKAT 30 January 2018 23: 14 New
        +3
        in the East China Sea, after two days of persecution, a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface. For more than forty hours, she was pursued by Japan’s self-defense forces, preventing the submarine from breaking away from the pursuit,
        This is of course a paradox, why did she have to come up, is this an atomic submarine? Here either on the boat there is no oxygen regenerating system, which I hardly believe in. Either the Chinese fleeing something broke, but since the boat then sailed away all the same, it is hard to believe.
        In general, sometimes I am overwhelmed by doubts about the sincerity of the performance characteristics of Chinese military equipment, it seems to me that they are cheating and specially overestimating and exaggerating them.
    2. genisis
      genisis 30 January 2018 15: 44 New
      29
      The Chinese fly into space, possess nuclear weapons, build nuclear submarines, tanks, and planes themselves. I am silent about high-speed trains, trucks, and heavy equipment. Do you still think that Chinese technology is a symbol of poor quality?
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 30 January 2018 15: 45 New
        +9
        I do not think. I see it.
        1. genisis
          genisis 30 January 2018 15: 47 New
          21
          We have been operating Chinese heavy trucks for 5 years. The only thing that often breaks down in them is the Bosh fuel injectors. And then, thanks to the quality of the Russian gas station.
          1. oldseaman1957
            oldseaman1957 30 January 2018 15: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: genisis
            The only thing that often breaks down in them is the Bosh fuel injectors.
            - Well, the Chinese square balls have ended! The "company" began to break!
          2. dvina71
            dvina71 30 January 2018 16: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: genisis
            We have been operating Chinese heavy trucks for 5 years. The only thing that often breaks down in them is the Bosh fuel injectors

            Come on? And why didn’t they take root in the long-range? Koreans drive .. but China was enough for a couple of years .. Especially .. what is Chinese in Chinese trucks?
            1. genisis
              genisis 30 January 2018 16: 14 New
              +2
              And why didn’t they take root in the long-range?

              For long-range I will not say anything. We have construction equipment: concrete trucks and concrete pump. Tippers do not complain either. But he didn’t deal with Chinese tractor units.
              What is Chinese in Chinese trucks?

              Motors WP10 and WP12
              Frames
          3. APASUS
            APASUS 30 January 2018 18: 37 New
            +3
            Quote: genisis
            . The only thing that often breaks down in them is the Bosh fuel injectors.

            Do not tell me, is it German Robert Bosch GmbH or Chinese Bosh ???
            1. genisis
              genisis 1 February 2018 15: 01 New
              0
              This is a Bosh production localized in China.
              The box says Bosch
              Made in China
          4. Glory1974
            Glory1974 30 January 2018 20: 03 New
            +3
            The only thing that often breaks down in them is the Bosh fuel injectors.

            Several major accidents were with the Chinese, in my opinion, "Photons." The reason is a systematic brake failure.
        2. Esoteric
          Esoteric 30 January 2018 16: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: Muvka
          I do not think. I see it.

          By the way, the pixel color of military equipment is their KNOW-HOW
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 51 New
            +1
            Only I see - that the rollers are somehow unevenly distributed to them? belay repeat Is this the famous "Chinese know-how"? laughing
        3. Alf
          Alf 30 January 2018 22: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Muvka
          I do not think. I see it.

          Have you seen a lot of real Chinese goods? What comes to us is in the majority 2-3 grades.
      2. dvina71
        dvina71 30 January 2018 16: 05 New
        17
        Quote: genisis
        I’m silent about high-speed trains, trucks, heavy equipment.

        Skating rinks fall off at the tanks at the biathlon, the MSA goes astray .. and they blow to the ancient T-72B .. Cars .. trucks .. get enough sleep so that KAMAZ does not dream .. Everything that China produces is tracing paper from Western and Soviet technologies, diluted by the lack of scientific schools .. In space they fly on a clone of the Union ..
        1. genisis
          genisis 30 January 2018 16: 09 New
          +9
          Cars .. trucks .. get enough sleep so that KAMAZ does not dream ..

          Once again, for the fifth year we have been operating the Chinese Shacman with WP10 and WP12 motors.
          Of the permanent failures, only Bosh nozzles are produced due to fuel quality.
          MAZ sold in the second year of operation. This is construction equipment, specifically concrete trucks. Runs are small. Colleagues operate a fleet of Chinese dump trucks, also Shacman. There were no complaints from them either.
          Do you have your own unsuccessful experience in operating Chinese trucks?
        2. Esoteric
          Esoteric 30 January 2018 16: 14 New
          13
          Quote: dvina71
          They fly into space on a clone of the Union ..

          They don’t take dope, and they perform on their own flag, even on a “noisy submarine”, and the yuan is the reserve currency, and our consumer electronics is Chinese ... wink
          1. shans2
            shans2 30 January 2018 23: 29 New
            +4
            about how the Chinese do not accept doping, neighing))) everyone who knows - they are in first place in chemistry with sports)
            1. Mih1974
              Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 55 New
              0
              It's a lie, just because they are not on the "chemistry", but on the "grass" you’ll catch their horseradish. This became in due time the main problem, because (it seems) the doping itself is searched for “according to certain chemically created markers, and the Chinese have“ natural components. ”Yes, these“ herbs ”are inserted so that after the Olympics, China“ wrote off ”all its winners. Well, that is, "one-time winners." negative
      3. mak_sim
        mak_sim 30 January 2018 16: 41 New
        +6
        Engines for Chinese missiles, if not super light, are ours, as well as for the EU and the USA. Engines for exterminators are also supplied by us. China is an assembly shop, but not a research institute. They learned to copy not bad, but here to dismiss something new, new and better.
      4. sava fitz
        sava fitz 30 January 2018 20: 31 New
        +2
        The Chinese also build and operate aircraft carriers! The latter with an electromagnetic catapult! What the Russian Federation, in principle, can not.
        1. dvina71
          dvina71 30 January 2018 20: 53 New
          +7
          Quote: sava fyts
          The Chinese also build and operate aircraft carriers! The latter with an electromagnetic catapult! What the Russian Federation, in principle, can not.

          So far they have completed and are exploiting the Soviet one .. they have only recently lowered theirs into the water .. And only when they have an avik with at least some kind of catapult .. only plans .. Someone plans to colonize the Moon by then and destroy the aggressor from there "..
          1. NikWik
            NikWik 31 January 2018 22: 33 New
            +2
            in addition to the aircraft carrier, they build at the same time 15 destroyers and, I dare to assure you, of quite acceptable quality. Ask our ura-patriots a question, how many destroyers are being built with us? And they will build an aircraft carrier, much earlier than us.
            1. Mih1974
              Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 57 New
              0
              Do not distort, otherwise I will give examples of how many times in steel smelting or rare earth China "has" West World !! We are not talking about QUALITY, but QUALITY! good
        2. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 30 January 2018 23: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: sava fyts
          The latter with an electromagnetic catapult

          But as soon as we see the current catapult (at least steam) then there will be something to talk about)
      5. Mih1974
        Mih1974 1 February 2018 11: 49 New
        +1
        And point-by-point: they fly into space (even externally) on a bare copy-paste first of an American rocket, then of our “union”; France, Pakistan, India, South Africa and even s. possess nuclear weapons. Korea (will you also take it to the world technology leader? fool ), Nuclear submarines - everything is just incomprehensible here for now, but I want to remind you that the first Alps appeared in terry 60 (sort of), that is, they are already antiques and we should speak not about them but about their quality; China’s tanks are still that “original”, one in one chimera from Soviet and NATO tanks, and no one can name exactly the Chinese achievement (development) in the field of tank building; planes - it’s even worse, the plants were completely built by the Americans and the Europeans, and there are no Chinese aircraft in nature, but their j-20 causes shock and shock among experts, even though the whole Russian engine is officially standing there, and the fuselage is another chimera from our and American F-22s and 35s.
        But on high-speed trains - I agree here, they took the technology delivered by the Germans of high-speed trains, or maybe having bought the Germans themselves, brought the idea to a remarkable development and can now really be considered leaders in this area. But I repeat - there is almost entirely German Siemens and it is not a fact that the Chinese did the fine-tuning.
        But in the field of automotive industry - the Chinese simply need to be killed for what they "excel" am according to those who "on earth" dealt with the Chinese auto industry, these are "some obscene words." Here is one example - in a "Chinese" car which is generally a copy of a Mazda, three of the four ball joints are from a Mazda, and the fourth - the devil knows from whom belay negative . It was not possible to find out what sort of "crap" it was either by exhaustive search or by comparison. More importantly, the question remained unanswered - IN BELMESA did they do this? Why these "yellow-faced brothers" did not leave 4 relatives from Mazda or put all 4 here so strange - remains unanswered. Having bought any Chinese equipment, which seems to be a complete copy of a well-known brand, you will never guess "where it is played". negative
        So try again - call AT LEAST ONE Chinese (modern) technology !! tongue
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 30 January 2018 15: 50 New
      22
      Quote: Muvka
      Chinese technology in action. Which is to be expected ...

      Seriously? In terms of its capacities, industrial and economic power, present-day China is a match for the USSR, only with human resources many times larger. Neither we nor the USA will very soon catch up with these guys.
      Second-generation Soviet submarines were also called "roaring cows", and after that, the USSR created the largest submarine fleet in the world, next to which the US and European submarine fleet were not standing next to the compartment.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 30 January 2018 16: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        Quote: Muvka
        Chinese technology in action. Which is to be expected ...

        Seriously? In terms of its capacities, industrial and economic power, present-day China is a match for the USSR, only with human resources many times larger. Neither we nor the USA will very soon catch up with these guys.
        Second-generation Soviet submarines were also called "roaring cows", and after that, the USSR created the largest submarine fleet in the world, next to which the US and European submarine fleet were not standing next to the compartment.

        So when were these roaring submarines? There must have been high technology ...
      2. Sailor
        Sailor 30 January 2018 16: 06 New
        +7
        And what remains of this fleet? Even pr.945 and part of the 971s could not be kept in proper form.
      3. dvina71
        dvina71 30 January 2018 16: 09 New
        12
        Quote: NEXUS
        Second-generation Soviet submarines are also called "roaring cows"

        Twenty-five again .. "Roaring cow" .. on the slang of the Texans - looking for a place to calve, the author of this meme, the general .. the house is just from there .. In a strange way, these "roaring cows" quite successfully chased the American aug .. and remained undetected .
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 30 January 2018 17: 15 New
          +4
          Quote: dvina71
          Twenty five again .. "Roaring cow" .. on the slang of the Texans - looking for a place for calving, the author of this meme, the general .. the house is just from there ..

          Not really ... as far as I understand, only the nuclear submarines of project 675 received this nickname ..
          These submarines were lucky with an abundance of nicknames. For noise, NATO experts called them “Echo II” (Echo II), and Soviet - “roaring cow.” The design of the submarine was unusual. Missiles were mounted horizontally, and before launch, launch containers rose. For this ability, the submarine was nicknamed the “cot”.
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 30 January 2018 18: 15 New
            +4
            Quote: NEXUS
            and the NATO experts called them Noisiness Echo II (Echo II)

            Why immediately for the noise? "Echo" is a nymph who could not speak first and could not be silent when a conversation began with her .. Where in this legend about noise?
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 30 January 2018 19: 23 New
              +5
              Quote: dvina71
              Why immediately for the noise?

              I’m not saying that they were bad ... I’m saying that at that time they were inferior in terms of low noise to mattress submarines. And this is not surprising, since we were in the role of catching up.
              Quote: Evgeniy667b
              I thank Andrey for the balm for the Soul. Part of those nuclear powered ships was a particle of my work.

              Eugene, I do not in any way belittle the achievements of our shipbuilders ... I just say that despite all our lag in this matter in the 50s, the USSR in a very short time leveled the advantage of the adversary in this matter and did even more -Creating the largest and best submarine fleet in the world.
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 30 January 2018 20: 50 New
                +2
                Quote: NEXUS
                I am not saying that they were bad ... I am saying that at that time they were inferior in terms of low noise to mattress submarines.

                Do you have at least some comparative data on the noise level of the USA and the USSR? Or is it all according to the OBS agency? For some reason, I’m sure that you don’t have such data .. Practice suggests that the noise of the 2nd generation of the USSR apl did not interfere with their BZ.
                1. NikWik
                  NikWik 31 January 2018 22: 38 New
                  +2
                  Oh, young man, the noise was still interfering. But we are all the same tasks. performed because we are Russian. And they did such things as mattresses never dreamed of.
              2. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 30 January 2018 23: 41 New
                +3
                Quote: NEXUS
                I am not saying that they were bad ... I am saying that at that time they were inferior in terms of low noise to mattress submarines.

                The first American also rattled like a tin can on the pavement. Remember their Nautilus. Although, this did not stop him from attending to the American aircraft carrier on the PLO exercises))
      4. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 30 January 2018 18: 31 New
        +9
        I thank Andrey for the balm for the Soul. Part of those nuclear powered ships was a particle of my work. Then in the early 90s they all wrote off and began to cut. Now there is nothing left! Somehow “Ohio” walks for 40 years, but our “Murenki” and 20 have not overcome. Apparently 18 ships were too tough to strip, so they threw money for their disposal. Since then I hate this process.
      5. In100gram
        In100gram 30 January 2018 23: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        Second-generation Soviet submarines are also called "roaring cows"

        Well, like this. Only this "cow" could not catch the torpedoes
      6. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 30 January 2018 23: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        The present China in its capacities, industrial and economic power to match the USSR

        oh well)) the Chinese copyists, and no more. Do not overestimate them (as well as underestimate not worth it). They are unable to determine the vector of the development of technology themselves. Look at other camps. Yes, they borrowed something, and very soon they themselves were trendsetters. The Chinese, like small children in a sandbox, saw a “toy” with others, liked it — and they want the same. Krivenko copied, and joy full diapers. On this basis, do you compare them with the USSR? They really only have a good amount. But quantity alone is not always important) Better once is good than ten somehow laughing
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 31 January 2018 10: 53 New
          +3
          Quote: Gregory_45
          oh well)) Chinese copiers, and no more

          And in Soviet times, our designers didn’t copy anything at all. lol
          Quote: Gregory_45
          On this basis, do you compare them with the USSR?

          Based on the fact that these guys, although they are engaged in frank copying, at the same time, they are developing their own school of shipbuilding, aircraft building, tank building, etc. ... and I’m more than sure that in 10 years it will all bear fruit. And in stubbornness the Chinese still need to learn. At the same time, they have complete order with finances. And the political will is also there. And therefore, mark my words, we with the mattresses will still puff heavily so as not to lag behind them.
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 31 January 2018 13: 04 New
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            And in Soviet times, our designers didn’t copy anything at all.

            read my comment above to the end, do not respond to the phrase taken out of context.
            Quote: Gregory_45
            Yes, they borrowed something, and very soon they themselves were trendsetters

            Quote: NEXUS
            these guys, although they are engaged in frank copying, but at the same time they are learning their school

            the fact of the matter is that they do not work out the school. They just make more or less successful copies. Your school is something else. These are our decisions, our technologies, this is the definition of the vector of technological development. The Chinese have none of this.
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 31 January 2018 21: 38 New
              0
              Quote: Gregory_45
              These are our decisions, our technologies, this is the definition of the vector of technological development. The Chinese have none of this.


              Boeing and Airbus have their own schools.
              What is the difference ...

              Artillery schools have their own ways - what is the difference between modern implementations of self-propelled guns.

              Aviation has different schools - what is the difference between UAV technologies in modern reality?

              Shipbuilding has its own schools - what is the difference between Ashen and Virginia?

              do not smack nonsense ... it hurts.
              1. Uryukc
                Uryukc 1 February 2018 02: 50 New
                0
                Quote: ZVO
                What is the difference ...

                I will call:
                - What is the difference between the Swedish self-propelled guns Archer and Msta, in short, to everyone!
                “I don’t know, but there is certainly a difference there.”
                - According to UAVs, Americans are betting on strategic jet UAVs and at the same time dreaming of a "swarm of drones." Ours are opposed to tactical ones, and we have unusual developments in convertiplanes, helicopter UAVs with an onboard system, and quite unusual “cable” ones. The Israelis have their own niche, they also develop the theme of barrage of ammunition. In the USSR, there was a completely different approach; they created reactive disposable UAVs on self-propelled chassis.
                - Ash and Virginia are very different, at least Virginia has more options for special operations - a camera for scuba divers, a place for mooring mini submarines. Ash, however, inherited a huge and effective FPP from the project of special reconnaissance nuclear submarines, there was material about it in the VO. And this is only at first glance, experts will find many differences.

                Shorter rubbish por you. The differences are too obvious not to be noticed. And about the Chinese .. Ours began to re-learn the topic of UAVs about 10-15 years ago, buying devices and licenses for them from Israel and now there are already prototypes with ORIGINAL solutions. And the Chinese both copied and are copying, all the deadlines for "innovation" have already passed.
                1. Mih1974
                  Mih1974 1 February 2018 12: 15 New
                  0
                  I’ll add: just compare the two videos “shooting from the inside of the paladin” and “shooting from the vengeance”. The first thing that catches your eye - they have a combustible sleeve good , then - we have maximum simplicity and versatility, they have an emphasis on cleanliness and the "process" negative Well, if you look at the video about the same "coalition" - then they finally made a "completely unparalleled in the world" fully automatic tower. And no - not even the Swedish Archer was lying around. In general, one can immediately say that it is the Soviet / Russian weapons development school that is oriented towards the war, or as tankers say, “you developers think how we will fight in tanks, but we think how we will die in them,” but Western schools are focused on “parades” or teachings. In this regard, Izrail is very similar to us, it’s true because before the dope the smart people left us, who just do military equipment specifically for the War, even if adapted exclusively for their theater.
                  I want to recall how praised the "indestructible" Abrams, and especially Leoperdy and Shaw? It turned out - they were burning for a sweet soul, and it was a shock both for us and for that side. And I advise you to watch the attack of Chechen terrorists on Dagestan when one of our tanks detached from the infantry and began to try to leave the village captured by the terrorists !! he was beaten from RPG from all sides - then they counted something about 8 hits belay but he still left the village himself and the devil knows how many barmaley transmitted good .
    4. vlad66
      vlad66 30 January 2018 16: 45 New
      +7
      US experts say Chinese nuclear submarines are too noisy

      These are American experts too arrogant. repeat
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 30 January 2018 19: 39 New
        +2
        Volodya, welcome hi
        The Japanese drove a Chinese boat, and the Americans make a statement? Let them participate, then talk.
  2. 210ox
    210ox 30 January 2018 15: 38 New
    +7
    Surfaced to show Yap the Chinese "Kuz'kin mother" yes
    1. Partyzan
      Partyzan 30 January 2018 15: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: 210ox
      Surfaced to show Yap the Chinese "Kuz'kin mother" yes

      rather pin mother
  3. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 30 January 2018 15: 39 New
    13
    They made such a conclusion after this month in the East China Sea, after two days of persecution, a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface. For more than forty hours, she was pursued by Japanese self-defense forces, preventing the submarine from breaking away from the pursuit, Popular Mechanics reports.
    But were there races, maybe there weren’t any races? wink
  4. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 30 January 2018 15: 40 New
    +4
    Maybe the Japanese just have very sensitive sonars.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 30 January 2018 15: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Maybe the Japanese just have very sensitive sonars.

      Are you hinting that the cats were mobilized by rumors?
    2. Esoteric
      Esoteric 30 January 2018 16: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Maybe the Japanese just have very sensitive sonars.

      And the Americans - "invisible aircraft" lol And the DPRK has missiles ... laughing
  5. viktor.
    viktor. 30 January 2018 15: 41 New
    +9
    In ten years, China will have a hundred of them, NOISE WILL BE SUCH AS YAPY WILL NOT LEAVE FROM THE PRAYER laughing
  6. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 30 January 2018 15: 49 New
    +1
    The Chinese authorities, as usual, did not comment on the incident.

    Cleverly. Let the potent. Opponents and Old throw ideas.
    PS. Well, the flag is tiny. China has such flags ....
  7. Simon
    Simon 30 January 2018 16: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    They made such a conclusion after this month in the East China Sea, after two days of persecution, a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface. For more than forty hours, she was pursued by Japanese self-defense forces, preventing the submarine from breaking away from the pursuit, Popular Mechanics reports.
    But were there races, maybe there weren’t any races? wink

    Yeah, a smoke came up! laughing
  8. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 30 January 2018 16: 12 New
    +1
    It is a pity that the performance characteristics of the Shan boats are not intelligibly known, otherwise it could be compared with the American or ours (if their performance characteristics were known for certain). And also curious how Japan drove a Chinese boat?
    But in general, the Amers have seen bombed about the fact that in China there are submarines. It seems to me that the whole world somehow underestimates China, in which everything has been normal with quality for a long time.
  9. rudolff
    rudolff 30 January 2018 16: 12 New
    +8
    In the East China Sea? Japanese? Persecuted for two days? Nu-nu ... In less than a day, the area would be teeming with Chinese NK. I am silent about aviation. The same thing is said about our nuclear submarines in the Barents or Okhotsk.
  10. san4es
    san4es 30 January 2018 16: 13 New
    +4
    US experts say Chinese nuclear submarines are too noisy

    ... It's just that the Chinese worked too loudly with flippers bully

    15 January
    ... they also scream all over the ocean fellow
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 30 January 2018 17: 08 New
      +5
      Sanya, are you keeping the whole YouTube under control? wink Do you have anything about flying in parallel there?
      1. san4es
        san4es 30 January 2018 17: 23 New
        +5
        hi Hi Slav ...
        youtube under control

        ... No, I was having dinner, request
        regarding flight in parallel

        ...-- this is at Alcomarket wink
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 30 January 2018 17: 27 New
          +5
          Okay, I get it. If at night, opening the refrigerator, you see there sausage for 2 r. 20 kopecks call me. So you want the past !!!
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 30 January 2018 19: 49 New
            +3
            Glory hi It’s good to try on a snack, there is a misted bubble over 3p. 62 cop. should stand next. I am the third to participate, if there is no objection. drinks
  11. Ural resident
    Ural resident 30 January 2018 16: 28 New
    +3
    If something is wrong with the quality of the Chinese, then they will correct it - there is no doubt about that.
    Given the breakthrough that they made - another 10 years and will be ahead of us and the Americans. They are able to set goals and achieve them. They also spoke about other equipment - “Chinese quality” about 20 years ago — now it’s hard to say, but here the economy is cheaper to make and sell more expensive. But they’ll invest in military equipment. No wonder spies around the world are collecting technology. I think in Chinese research institutes they are thinking ahead for 2 generations.
    So in the future, the Chinese will become more dangerous than the others — and their population and spread around the world — the global reach of the economy, and also surpassing military power - this dragon will bury all nations in its arms.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 30 January 2018 17: 06 New
      +3
      A resident of the Urals, probably rightly say, but Baba Vanga should not be discounted.
  12. win
    win 30 January 2018 16: 55 New
    +9
    since during the ascent it was a huge chinese flag.

    The main thing to show chinese flag!!!
    or
    refuse to speak white flagas the skater Olga Graf did,
    refusing to participate in the 2018 Olympics!
    That's how it is brought up patriotism!
    And then the next time Russian athletes (possibly football players)
    make everyone bow and say ku request

    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 30 January 2018 17: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Siegen
      make everyone bow and say "ku

      Squat wink yes
      1. win
        win 30 January 2018 17: 52 New
        +3
        And they will force me to squat too ... what
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 1 February 2018 12: 45 New
          +1
          And they’ll put on mugs! good Anyone who agrees to do ku in front of the owner of the yellow pants (packs of bucks) must wear a muzzle am
    2. reservist
      reservist 30 January 2018 17: 48 New
      +2
      since during the ascent it was a huge Chinese flag

      The proudly upturned red banner seemed to say:
      "Try to touch me! All the power of China will fall on the enemy! stop
      Well! It will be so in the future am

  13. sabakina
    sabakina 30 January 2018 17: 03 New
    +4
    this ascent could be an action carried out by the Chinese to specifically show the presence of these boats in the fleet, since during the ascent it had a huge Chinese flag on it.

    I still remember watching on TV a story about how the Soviet submarines went on duty. At first they went in formation, the Americans fixed them with their underwater radars. Then ours went "fan" and ..... disappeared. It was in the shaggy 20th century. And they hung a huge flag ...
    1. reservist
      reservist 30 January 2018 18: 07 New
      +2
      And they hung a huge flag

      Something they remind me of VARIAG ... am
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 30 January 2018 23: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: sabakina
      It was in the shaggy 20th century

      oh, how far into the future have you climbed that the XNUMXth century seems so far away)) In the shaggy millennium, too - that's also right, but the scale is bigger laughing
  14. 75 hammer
    75 hammer 30 January 2018 17: 15 New
    +1
    And tell me the "syroma" where in China torpedoes with wake guidance? Or as usual without thinking twice reprinted? We also haven’t taken it into service, but do you already have any in China?
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 30 January 2018 20: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Hammer 75
      And tell me the "syroma" where in China torpedoes with wake guidance? Or as usual without thinking twice reprinted? We also haven’t taken it into service, but do you already have any in China?

      Actually, this is already an old technology ... She is at least 50 years old ...
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 31 January 2018 00: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Hammer 75
      where in China wake torpedoes from the wake? Or as usual without thinking twice reprinted? We also haven’t taken it into service, but do you already have any in China?

      Yes, this technology is a hundred years old at lunch. This homing principle is the oldest. Soviet 53-65 sample of 1961. Torpedo 65-76 years of the mid 70's. More modern USET-80 (80s) And so on
      1. 75 hammer
        75 hammer 31 January 2018 12: 59 New
        0
        The answer is: For the new torpedo (53-65), an active acoustic guidance system was developed, known as “A” or “Andromeda” equipment. This is about the difference between the acoustic homing system and the wake trace (that is, the disturbance of the aqueous medium by the pressure of the rotor blades). If anyone understands, enlighten me: where does China get this technology from? If we have torpedoes in the GS they don’t know how to shove!
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 31 January 2018 13: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Hammer 75
          For the new torpedo (53-65), an active acoustic guidance system was developed, known as “A” or “Andromeda” equipment

          "Torpedo control and guidance system 53-65 - active acoustic homing system (CCH)" Andromeda "(equipment" A ") with horizontal location of the wake track. A method of parallel pursuit of a target along one of the irradiated edges of the wake track and reducing the distance in the mode homing. "
          The wake trail can be recognized in many ways. But all this will be the same guidance on the wake of the wake. In particular, for 53-65 was developed optical homing system of torpedoes on the wake track S-380
          1. 75 hammer
            75 hammer 31 January 2018 13: 31 New
            0
            I'm about:In the 80s, in addition to improving hydro-optical systems using a shadow sensor and mastering their mass production, intensive research began on remote-laser methods for detecting inhomogeneities in the marine environment. This was facilitated by the study of light fields in the ocean and on the combined atmosphere – hydrosphere track. Scientists at the Institute of Hydrooptics have developed a generalized model for the propagation of optical signals along the “atmosphere – hydrosphere” path, taking into account the spatial-angular, temporal structure, energy losses, and the effect of the excited interface. And not about:One of the first developments tested in full-scale marine conditions was the NV-57 system (a non-contact optical torpedo fuse 53-56) [3] which was produced in series at the GOMZ (LOMO) and was accepted for use in the navy. The chief designer of this system S.Ya. Emdin and his colleagues in 1959 were awarded the Lenin Prize. Subsequently, an optical homing system for torpedoes along the wake track S-380 was developed.
  15. Terenin
    Terenin 30 January 2018 17: 33 New
    +6
    ... after two days of persecution, a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface. Another option for the Chinese remained - to attack the pursuers. am Fortunately, so far only catching up. drinks
    1. win
      win 30 January 2018 17: 56 New
      +1
      Fortunately, so far only catching up

      Yes, к счастью!
      In another case, the Chinese will remember all their offenders am

    2. poquello
      poquello 30 January 2018 18: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Terenin
      ... after two days of persecution, a Chinese nuclear submarine was forced to surface. Another option for the Chinese remained - to attack the pursuers. am Fortunately, so far only catching up. drinks

      I still assume that the Chinese paid attention to them before the ascent, such as
  16. Berkut24
    Berkut24 30 January 2018 19: 00 New
    +5
    At present, China serves from six to 13 nuclear submarines of Project 093 Shan.

    What I like about the Chinese is that no one knows how much and what they actually have. And they do not conclude any restrictive agreements, so that neither we nor the Americans rummaged around their bases. It is time for us to move on to this approach. How many Americans and I don’t check each other’s arsenals, but there is no more confidence from this. moreover, Americans can get out of restrictions at any moment.
  17. Orionvit
    Orionvit 30 January 2018 19: 03 New
    +1
    six to 13 nuclear submarines
    The spread in estimates is somehow too large, doubled. Nuclear submarine is not a needle, can not count?
  18. dojjdik
    dojjdik 30 January 2018 19: 52 New
    0
    It would be very useful to the Syrians - nothing that “noisy” in Israel will not miss; "sell" a couple of Assad he and "noisy" will be glad
  19. Old26
    Old26 30 January 2018 21: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: dvina71
    They fly into space on a clone of the Union ..

    Not at all. A clone implies a copy. We never gave technical documentation to the ship to them. Yes, outwardly it looks like a "Union", but no more, whether we like it or not, but they made their own Shenzhou themselves. And what he looks like "Union" is not a reason to consider him a clone. TU-144 and Concord were also similar in appearance, but it was two different planes

    And the CZ-2F carrier, although outwardly the payload compartment is very similar to the "Union" one. But this is its own rocket with its own engines.

    Quote: mak_sim
    Engines for Chinese missiles, if not super light, are ours.

    Oh really? And from which of our engines are these clones (or are they ours at all?), Something I have not heard that in our country manned ships were launched on a heptyl-amyl pair. And the Chinese are starting.
    Moreover, there is a series of cryogenic families (oxygen-hydrogen) of the 70th series which we simply do not have now. there are oxygen-kerosene series 100, and there are a couple of "heptyl-amyl" series 20. so which of them are ours?

    Quote: mak_sim
    Engines for Chinese missiles, if not super light, are ours, as well as for the EU and the USA. Engines for exterminators are also supplied by us. China is an assembly shop, but not a research institute. They learned to copy not bad, but here to dismiss something new, new and better.

    Maybe we delivered engines (for some time), but do not underestimate the Chinese. Those hehe space rockets are being developed by the Chinese Research Institute of the Chinese Space Technology Association. Engines - by the Academy of Aerospace Liquid Propulsion Technologies.
    And we, in our usual habit, believe that they do not research and develop anything, but only copy
  20. Mentat
    Mentat 30 January 2018 22: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Muvka
    Chinese technology in action. Which is to be expected ...

    Quote: 210ox
    What do you know about the new Chinese technologies? And why did they come up? These new technologies will still give odds to our "newest and unparalleled in the world."

    Shout even louder. Children are often fond of looking at picture books and empathize with their heroes. You didn’t fall into childhood there yet, looking at Chinese pictures?
    I do not even judge by military equipment, but by engineering products.

    What products do you judge? According to copies of German machine tools 20 years ago? Or what caused you a stir?
  21. Mentat
    Mentat 30 January 2018 22: 28 New
    +4
    Quote: Resident of the Urals
    If something is wrong with the quality of the Chinese, then they will correct it - there is no doubt about that.
    Given the breakthrough that they made - another 10 years and will be ahead of us and the Americans

    You would ask why this jerk was made. Its price is exorbitant. They still have to deal with the consequences of this spurt for decades.
    Not to mention the very strange statement that the Chinese will get ahead of someone in 10 years. You live in a fantasy world. The whole breakthrough in China took place due to the greed of Western hucksters, who rushed to a country where there is no need to pay salaries and social security, to comply with strict environmental standards. But they were never going to transfer key technologies from the same greed to the Chinese. For example, you see a myriad of Chinese smartphones, but on what processors, chips and displays does it all work? On American processors, Japanese photomodules and Korean displays.
    Read about the demographic hole, about the ecology in China, maybe your glasses will become less pink.
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 31 January 2018 05: 38 New
      +1
      Just read it, and then think about where, in which direction, in the direction of whose territory, it is more convenient for China to "expand" .... wink
  22. Vard
    Vard 31 January 2018 00: 04 New
    +1
    As always ... he stole the roofing felts ... The roofing felts were stolen from him .. But there was one story ... Noisy ... Not noisy ... But China makes nuclear submarines ...
  23. ver_
    ver_ 31 January 2018 05: 45 New
    0
    Quote: ImPerts
    I remember in the media slipping articles that the Chinese offered to exchange technologies. They give us microelectronics, we give them an engine.
    As far as I know, the exchange did not take place.
    And I can conclude that the lag in microelectronics is not so critical compared with the lag in engine manufacturing.
    The same PD-35 is made for a joint wide-body airbus.
    Why China Sales market.

    ... miscalculation of microelectronics for the aircraft at our place is at the proper level .. Consumer goods is another matter ..
  24. AID.S
    AID.S 31 January 2018 08: 29 New
    0
    The opinions of some commentators were recalled (taken here: https: //resheto.net/pritchi/46-slon).

    The dispute of the blind about the elephant
    Parable of the blind sages and the elephant

    That was a long time ago. They somehow brought an elephant to one city. Many wanted to see him. Among them were blind sages known throughout the district. But how to see an elephant if you are blind?

    “I know,” said one sage, “we feel him.”

    “Good idea,” others agreed. - So we can find out what he is this elephant.

    So, the six wise men went to “watch” the elephant.

    The first groped a large flat ear. It slowly moved back and forth.

    - This is a fan! The elephant is like a fan! He exclaimed.

    The second sage stood near the elephant's foot and touched her. She was round and powerful.

    - Mmm ... it's something round and thick ... An elephant is like a tree! He exclaimed.

    “You are both wrong.” - said the third. - Yes, it is round, but not thick and also very flexible! He looks like a rope! This sage felt for the tail of an elephant.

    - Oh no! The elephant is like a spear! Yes - round, yes - thin, but not flexible! - exclaimed the fourth, who felt the tusks of an elephant.

    “No, no,” shouted the fifth, “an elephant, like a high wall.” Large, wide and rough. - he said, feeling the side of an elephant.

    The sixth sage in his hands held the trunk of an elephant.

    “All of you are wrong,” he said, “the elephant is like a snake.”

    - No, to the rope!

    - No, a snake!

    - The wall!

    - You are wrong!

    - I'm right!

    Six blind wise men shouted at each other uncontrollably. Their argument lasted all day. Then one more, then a week, and they did not come to a consensus. Each sage imagined only what his hands could feel and he believed only himself.

    As a result, everyone thought that only he was right and knew what the elephant looked like. No one wanted to listen to what others were telling him.

    Therefore, they never knew what an elephant looks like.

    The parable of the elephant and blind sages in verses
    The English poet John Sachs set forth the parable in poetic form, as a result of which this allegory gained great fame in English-speaking countries. In Russian, it became popular under the name "Scientific Dispute" in the translation of Samuel Marshak.

    Dispute about an elephant

    Blind, their number was five,
    In Bombay came to study
    Indian elephant.
    Exploring the elephant’s side,
    One said the elephant is tall
    And as strong as a wall.

    Another on the trunk of an elephant
    Held his hand
    And stated that the elephant is one
    From safe snakes.

    I felt the third two fangs,
    And he states:
    - For two honed bayonets
    Looks like an Indian elephant!

    The fourth blind, scratching
    The elephant’s knee
    Found that the elephant was rough
    Like an old pine.

    And the fifth, going up to the elephant
    Tail side
    Determined that the elephant is long
    No more than a worm.

    There were disagreements among the blind
    And lasted a whole year.
    Then the blind in the end
    Put your hands in motion.

    And since the fifth was strong, -
    He closed his mouth to everyone.
    And now consists of an elephant
    From one tail!
    Funny parable about elephants
    There is an alternative humorous version of this parable.

    Fable of the Blind and the Elephant Six blind elephants gathered once hoping to find out together
    efforts, what is man.

    One elephant felt the man with his foot and said: "Man is something small and flat."

    The others also felt the man with his foot and unanimously agreed with the first.
  25. Vladimir SHajkin
    Vladimir SHajkin 31 January 2018 23: 21 New
    0
    When Americans talk about noise, you should always divide their info by several orders of magnitude.
    They said the same thing about our Soviet ones, but ours unexpectedly surfaced in an aircraft carrier warrant and safely left.
    When the Japanese pursued 2 days of the Chinese, which is quite possible, some assumptions must be made: what kind of operation, why did they come up?
    And on the fact that somewhere someone said conclusions are inadmissible to draw, the more so the Chinese have ancient habits to hide their intentions and make riddles.
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 31 January 2018 23: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Shaikin Vladimir
      When Americans talk about noise, you should always divide their info by several orders of magnitude.
      They said the same thing about our Soviet ones, but ours unexpectedly surfaced in an aircraft carrier warrant and safely left.
      When the Japanese pursued 2 days of the Chinese, which is quite possible, some assumptions need to be made: what kind of operation, why surfaced?
      And on the fact that somewhere someone said conclusions are inadmissible to draw, the more so the Chinese have ancient habits to hide their intentions and make riddles.


      How many facts of our surfacing inside orders do you name?

      How many cases of damage to our SSBNs in the catch-up courses (in the back hemisphere) were described by our submariners in their memoirs (I recommend reading memoirs)?

      Then turn on your head ..
  26. Mentat
    Mentat 1 February 2018 13: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    Just read it, and then think about where, in which direction, in the direction of whose territory, it is more convenient for China to "expand" .... wink

    It’s not convenient for him to expand anywhere. Firstly, China is full of undeveloped territories, and secondly, the Chinese are of sound mind and solid memory in order to attack Russia, which you hint at for some unknown reason.