Military Review

Ministry of Defense will adopt two automatic

138
The Russian Ministry of Defense has decided to adopt the new automatic machines developed by the V. Degtyaryov Plant - AEK-971, AEK-973 and the Kalashnikov Concern - AK-12 and AK-15, the Red Star military newspaper reported on Monday.


Ministry of Defense will adopt two automatic


Products of JSC "Plant named after V.Ya. Degtyarev" have the best performance when shooting from an unstable position, they are recommended for various special forces. The products of the Concern "Kalashnikov" JSC according to the criterion "simplicity - reliability" are more suitable for general military units and subunits.
- The Red Star reported.

Due to the complex balanced automatics, the AEK-971 is distinguished by high accuracy of fire, but its large-scale production will require a serious modernization of the weapons factory in Kovrov. The new Kalashnikov assault rifle, which is an evolution of the AK line, has retained their simplicity and reliability, and organizing its production in Izhevsk will not be difficult.

Both machines use standard ammunition and AK stores, equipped with ergonomic handles and switches, Picatinny slats for mounting sights and other equipment.

The decision was announced at the coordination scientific council on combat equipment, held on January 25. All four machine guns were tested for inclusion in the “Warrior” combat gear, which is positioned as “soldier of the future” gear.
Photos used:
http://army-news.ru/
138 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 29 January 2018 18: 06
    26
    Thanks for stopping arguing ...
    1. Monos
      Monos 29 January 2018 18: 24
      54
      What is good about Kalash? Yes, at least this!

      But I am also happy for the Degtyarevites. Well done!
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 29 January 2018 18: 39
        12
        Well, beautiful. Exotic. I can do that anyway.
        Most will die without knowing where it came from. And those who survive, of course, they will throw off the muzzle and charge and shoot with their teeth. (just envy, no AK train)
      2. 210ox
        210ox 29 January 2018 18: 40
        +4
        In general, this decision was predictable. One bad thing that dragged on ..
        Quote: Monos
        What is good about Kalash? Yes, at least this!

        But I am also happy for the Degtyarevites. Well done!
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 29 January 2018 18: 58
          +5
          Hi Dmitry! Listen, I don’t understand something. adopted four types of automatic weapons of two calibers. I am only glad, because I was very worried about 7.62. but it’s not clear how the caliber will be “distributed” in the sun? where is 5.45, and where is 7.62?
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 29 January 2018 20: 34
            +4
            I watched the video "American admires Abakan."
            There, this AN-94 is disassembled. Compared to Kalashnikov, this is some kind of sewing machine.
            Well, probably that he was not accepted into service.
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 29 January 2018 20: 51
              +2
              so he says that he had long dreamed of seeing how rocket technology works in the Academy of Sciences and gave a very high rating. by the way, the AN94 was put into service, but their limited supply is mainly different for specialists.
            2. Engineer
              Engineer 30 January 2018 08: 50
              0
              it was just officially adopted, they just didn’t buy it
          2. Chim_kent
            Chim_kent 30 January 2018 16: 39
            0
            When the urgent was taking place, the squad leader in the company had AK47 for the rest of the AK74s. Such an innovation was made taking into account the experience of Afghanistan, the Ak74 was not always effective because of the light bullet, especially if the enemy was behind the light barrier, AK47 in such cases simply made the barrier with the adversary.
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 29 January 2018 18: 53
        +9
        Quote: Monos
        not standard charging of ak store from a security officer

        I had Uzbeks for these purposes, they didn’t shoot very well. And when one individual threw a grenade into the trench, they just used it. It was also a Baptist from Ivano-Frankivsk, God forbade him to shoot, but he didn’t refuse to fill his horns.
        I’m very happy for AEK, has the voice of reason prevailed?
        1. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 29 January 2018 21: 08
          12
          Quote: APASUS
          True, there was also a Baptist from Ivano-Frankivsk, God forbade him to shoot, but he did not refuse to stuff horns.

          A familiar topic. yes We served one such, only from Ivanovo. At first, I didn’t even want to take the oath, motivating me to have to take up arms. Well, what can I say ... I went to demobilization as foreman, in terms of combat (including fire), he basically had "excellent". wassat Army - it is addictive. laughing
      4. Piramidon
        Piramidon 29 January 2018 19: 12
        +4
        Quote: Monos
        What is good about Kalash? Yes, at least this!

        But I am also happy for the Degtyarevites. Well done!

        But I’m wondering if some propelled M-16 can be loaded with cartridges, which before that were tumbled down in cement dust and concrete chips, how many shots after that can a super-sharp and heap pind-wunderwaffle produce?
        PS. The same question is for AEK.
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 29 January 2018 20: 28
          +8
          5,45 AK-74S also has failures with cartridges with dust and sand.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 29 January 2018 20: 33
            +2
            Quote: Okolotochny
            5,45 AK-74S also has failures with cartridges with dust and sand.

            Judging by the video, the special forces - do not care.
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 29 January 2018 22: 25
              12
              I'm not on the video. Urgent in the army. Where he served, there is specific sand, it is hot in summer, it is dry as a suspension. During firing, especially when lying on the gas after firing, this suspension settled, including on the AK mechanism. True, after failures they wiped the cartridges, took the bolt and blew the chamber and fired forward.
        2. Dreamboat
          Dreamboat 30 January 2018 01: 13
          +9
          Accuracy M-16 (AR-15) is a myth, like the complete indestructibility of AK. The American army immediately after Vietnam increased its "tolerances" and the amount of exhaust gases, which would increase the reliability of the M-16, which did not affect the accuracy of firing bursts even in the absence of a heavy piston. With the transition to the M-4 with a shortened barrel, accuracy was still reduced. According to AK, the opposite is true: AKM already had less tolerances and less "indestructibility" than the AK-47, but it was a little more hefty. AK-74 and further became more crowded, but more demanding to care. So now AK and AR are comparable. Evolution, however!
          1. Galaxy
            Galaxy 30 January 2018 01: 39
            0
            Quite right, totally in solidarity!
      5. vredlo
        vredlo 29 January 2018 19: 39
        +2
        so the shops are standard and therefore charging is the same that Kalash is aek so that in this they are equal
      6. RASKAT
        RASKAT 29 January 2018 21: 05
        +1
        And on the new AK there is a shutter lag (as on the M-16) and a convenient two-way fire translator, now such ananismus is not required. Praise be to the Almighty, have we really waited for this, this news is necessary drinks
        1. Killout
          Killout 29 January 2018 21: 20
          +4
          there is no double-sided fuse. Look at the latest modifications. they were accepted
        2. Kent0001
          Kent0001 29 January 2018 23: 22
          0
          In my opinion, what you wrote about did not go into the accepted variant, which is expensive. Something was removed there. Previously, there were materials, look.
      7. sabakina
        sabakina 29 January 2018 21: 28
        +3
        Vitya, you won’t believe it, read on the spot "non-standard machine cleaning". laughing
        1. Monos
          Monos 29 January 2018 22: 00
          +4
          Glory, hello! hi laughing
          Quote: sabakina
          Vitya, you won’t believe it, read on the spot "non-standard machine cleaning". laughing

          laughing Almost guessed. Only there will be standard cleaning shops. Well, the machine, by itself ...
      8. Retired2012
        Retired2012 30 January 2018 05: 55
        +1
        This does not surprise us ..... At the end of the 20th century, this took place .....
      9. Berkut
        Berkut 3 February 2018 00: 42
        0
        And the teeth of the might?
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 January 2018 19: 20
      +4
      Quote: Geisenberg
      Thanks for stopping arguing ...

      A-7,62 is better than Kalashak in accuracy, but more expensive to manufacture. In this regard, it is not clear why the AK-12, AK-15, and not the AK-107 ..
    3. vlad66
      vlad66 29 January 2018 20: 21
      +7
      Although they stopped arguing, it’s good. yes
  2. zzdimk
    zzdimk 29 January 2018 18: 07
    +1
    Amk "Alpha" (Israel) AK redone with modules - did not go?
  3. Labor
    Labor 29 January 2018 18: 08
    +2
    In terms of timing, it’s just not clear, they accepted it, and when they plan to start and finish rearmament is unknown.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 29 January 2018 18: 22
      +3
      In Kovrov, the plant must be modernized - much will depend on this for AEK.
      I am glad that this "badyaga" is over. hi
    2. Kent0001
      Kent0001 29 January 2018 23: 24
      0
      I think they will not be in a hurry. First, the forces of constant combat and rapid response, then motorized rifles.
  4. svp67
    svp67 29 January 2018 18: 11
    +1
    Ministry of Defense will adopt two automatic
    Let's see how life confirms the correctness of this decision ...
    1. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 29 January 2018 18: 34
      16
      Well, what if: a) both machine guns are good in their own way, b) the ammunition is the same, c) in the case of a big mess, 47x-74x reserves are enough for everyone. Well, the specialists will have a world-class machine, and they did not leave the Kovrovites with a broken trough
      1. svp67
        svp67 29 January 2018 19: 09
        +4
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        Well, what if

        Well, it already was and our army had THREE main tanks ... Nothing good.
        1. KVU-NSVD
          KVU-NSVD 29 January 2018 19: 17
          +6
          Well, here the situation is a little different - the vast majority of the aircraft will be equipped with unified weapons - this is one time, the ammunition is the same - these are two
          1. svp67
            svp67 29 January 2018 19: 27
            +3
            Quote: KVU-NSVD
            Well, here the situation is a little different - the vast majority of the aircraft will be equipped with unified weapons - this is one time, the ammunition is the same - these are two

            I don’t see the differences ... The army of the USSR, the overwhelmingly armed with the T-64, and even the ammunition they all had the same ...
            1. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 29 January 2018 20: 19
              +7
              If a million cheap machines account for tens of thousands more expensive in special forces, I don’t see problems for logistics and big budget overloads. And the tanks therefore gave everything away to one manufacturer, so as not to return to the Soviet model (and not only tanks)
              1. svp67
                svp67 29 January 2018 20: 35
                +1
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                And the tanks therefore gave everything away to one manufacturer, so as not to return to the Soviet model (and not only tanks)

                But with the guns did not shmoo ...
              2. weddu
                weddu 29 January 2018 21: 28
                +1
                But they didn’t give it away from a good life, but from hopelessness and lack of prospects ... It seemed so before. The St. Petersburg Design Tank School was the best in the world, poheril ... Omsk Design Bureau is still there, but will be buried soon too ..
              3. sabakina
                sabakina 29 January 2018 21: 40
                +3
                I do not understand about tanks. From the Soviet model to whose we came? To the French FT-17?
              4. svp67
                svp67 30 January 2018 03: 56
                0
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                If a million cheap machines account for tens of thousands more expensive in special forces - I don’t see problems for logistics and big budget overloads

                But I don’t see the point, financially, the company will produce tens of thousands of machines, here either the company will bend, or the price
        2. like this
          like this 29 January 2018 23: 19
          0
          t 64 was the tank of the "regulars", 72 - in the case of the Great War BB (it was created for those tasks), t 80 was a regular 2 generations and a gas turbine experiment. Another thing was used in practice.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 30 January 2018 06: 21
            +3
            Curious, where did this come from?
        3. moreman78
          moreman78 30 January 2018 08: 29
          +1
          This is our tradition: 3 tanks in service (72ka, 80ka and 90y), 3 fighters (Su-35, Su-30 and Mig-35), so nothing changes.
          1. Chim_kent
            Chim_kent 30 January 2018 16: 53
            0
            Everything was done correctly in the Union, in order to get the right and effective product, it was necessary to create internal competition, for this the task was given to several design bureaus, the result sometimes exceeded the expectations of the customer and then two design bureaus received the state order.
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 29 January 2018 19: 22
        +5
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        in case of a big mess, 47x -74x is enough for everyone

        Yeah ... only the combined-arms will be two AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles, 5,45 and 7,62 calibres, respectively. And in the case, as you say, a big mess, the fighters for a long time on the battlefield will look for a caliber for their machine gun.
        1. KVU-NSVD
          KVU-NSVD 29 January 2018 19: 26
          +4
          So now 7,62 * 39 use and do not cancel
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 29 January 2018 19: 31
            10
            Quote: KVU-NSVD
            So now 7,62 * 39 use and do not cancel

            The question was, didn’t give up 5,45? That is, why the all-wax TWO AK with different calibers?
            1. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 29 January 2018 19: 43
              +9
              The question is, did you give up 5,45?
              I agree . 5,45 with modern armor plates nothing. Only b / s lighter
              1. Northern warrior
                Northern warrior 29 January 2018 22: 57
                +5
                7N24 sews almost all the armor plates, so your statement about 5.45 is very doubtful.
            2. Doliva63
              Doliva63 30 January 2018 06: 28
              +3
              Um. And now the combined arms do not have 2 calibers? belay
              Nobody says that in the MCP, for example, every second one will be different laughing As before, 7,62 will be in the regimental reconnaissance, reconnaissance battalions and Special Forces (and not all of them), the rest - 5,45. Everything is still not? drinks
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 29 January 2018 21: 33
      +4
      Ah Seryoga Seryoga, gun "ZIS-3" in battles proved its advantage. Will the Barmalei confirm?
  5. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 29 January 2018 18: 12
    +8
    The right decision. Both machines have the right to life.
  6. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 29 January 2018 18: 13
    +6
    Well, at least AEK was not abandoned.
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 January 2018 18: 55
      +3
      Quote: Incvizitor
      Well at least AEK did not abandon

      If they find money "Due to sophisticated balanced automation, the AEK-971 is distinguished by a high accuracy of fire, but its large-scale production will require serious modernization of the arms factory in Kovrov"And it will turn out like a story 25 years ago - they say that the machine is good, but there’s no money for it ..
      1. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 30 January 2018 17: 28
        0
        As I understand it, there will be fewer parties, as the main armament for the special forces, although there they generally have a hodgepodge VAL VSS AK still AEK now, and with the ADF there is something incomprehensible or not ...
  7. Nemesis
    Nemesis 29 January 2018 18: 13
    +6
    For the combined arms units, the hundredth series of AKs are also suitable, only in the army of the Russian Federation AK-103, AK-104 and AK-105 the cat cried. The same fate awaits these machines.
    1. Pax tecum
      Pax tecum 29 January 2018 18: 31
      +5
      Let there be many machine guns, good and different. A choice for professionals.
      The main thing is uniform calibers, ammunition and interchangeable stores.
      And, the decision of the Moscow Region was really professional. Bravo!
      Not expected...
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 29 January 2018 18: 37
        +5
        In some ways, I agree with you, because the machine is not being repaired on the battlefield ... If the weapon is out of order they pick up the weapons of their killed or wounded comrade, or pick up the captured one ... However, different machines are different parts, different production lines. This is expensive. They couldn’t provide even the AK-103, AK-104, AK-105 even special forces, and the production of Degtyarev and Kalashnikov assault rifles, fundamentally different in design, would delay the production process even more ... That’s annoying ...
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 29 January 2018 18: 55
          +7
          It is written in black in Russian: native Kalash will go for combined arms, and any whim for your money for “low-intensity wars”. good A very correct decision, even if there is a water trench to be two fighters with different machine guns, then no embarrassment will happen - everyone will shoot with the same cartridges. And you have to (God forbid) shoot taking the weapon of a fallen fellow, then in any case, everyone adjusts it for himself and knows the subtleties. So there will be minor problems, but not hindering the conduct of this particular battle, but they will not become the cause of death ..
          Actually, what to worry about, in the army (globally) there is a "shaft" "screw cutter" and some pontoon commanders "get it" for themselves. request Although there is a complete zrad then get ammunition for such a unique weapon that the battle is completely unacceptable.
          Moreover, if I understand the MTR correctly and are now providing veneration with any weapons and equipment, so essentially nothing will change, except that they will be given (and apparently special forces, reconnaissance and airborne forces) a domestic version of a good and expensive assault rifle. And tens of thousands of guards, Vveshnikov pah, the Russian Guard will serve quietly and peacefully with updated and less expensive "Kalash". good
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 29 January 2018 19: 53
            +2
            Explosives can still serve quietly with the AK-74M for more than a dozen years, the conversation is not about them and not about that ... The conversation is that today they could not provide the operating parts with AK-103,104,105 assault rifles that do not have much design difference. New assault rifles have more differences, which will complicate the already low rate of rearmament with new barrels. That's what bothers me personally ...
          2. bunta
            bunta 30 January 2018 12: 13
            0
            Quote: Mih1974
            water trench to be two fighters with different machine guns, then no embarrassment will happen

            The embarrassment will happen if one worker cannot be assembled from two faulty machines.
        2. Pereira
          Pereira 29 January 2018 19: 49
          +1
          will delay the production process even more ..

          Everything is solved. Just steal less.
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 29 January 2018 19: 56
            +3
            Yes, I agree with you with both hands, but at the top they are unlikely to hear us, and if they hear us, they will only become embittered with us and will not draw the right conclusions ...
            1. Pereira
              Pereira 29 January 2018 23: 07
              +1
              Are they embittered with us? We feed them. Have you ever become embittered with a cutlet?
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 30 January 2018 11: 10
                +1
                You read how they shout at me and with what words for criticizing the jambs of Pu and the company, see for yourself ...
  8. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 29 January 2018 18: 15
    +1
    Solomon's solution.
  9. tracer
    tracer 29 January 2018 18: 24
    10
    Angelic handsome. Everything is done wisely. I will not go into subtleties. But the sight gives a lot, and even correctly mounted rigidly on the frame, so as not to break apart and duplicated by a mechanical sight.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 January 2018 00: 06
      +1
      This one is also handsome
      1. John22
        John22 30 January 2018 21: 32
        +1
        What is the beauty?
  10. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 29 January 2018 18: 29
    0
    Due to the complex balanced automation, the AEK-971 is distinguished by a high accuracy of fire, but its large-scale production will require serious modernization of the Kovrov arms factory.

    But this is not necessary. Let infantile jerboas jump with real farts on special equipment. And we .... so the old fashioned way, where with a bayonet, where with a dubby.
  11. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 29 January 2018 18: 37
    +8
    Glad for the "tarry". The correct machine. Well, that was accepted. The battle will show who is who.
    1. tracer
      tracer 29 January 2018 20: 53
      +4
      I am also sincerely glad. Anyone who came across where it should be with the "lack of accuracy" of the machine will understand me. But .. the hell the gun itself doesn't fire. It is necessary to seriously change fire training and for the better. Laser shooting simulations will help a lot. Modern technology does not stand still. There is even the opportunity to train snipers. With a bunch of features .... There are such "offices". But not in Russia. I'd love them to appear there.
    2. VIT101
      VIT101 29 January 2018 21: 08
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Glad for the "tarry". The correct machine. Well, that was accepted. The battle will show who is who.

      They accepted it, but it really will not be in the troops. Somewhere there, some special forces ... In general, a ride. And they will drive what is already so full in warehouses, only without the Piccatini bar.
  12. Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 29 January 2018 18: 49
    +9
    Products of JSC "Plant named after V.Я. Degtyareva "

    Vasiliy Plant Alekseevich Degtyareva. Shame on you, shy
  13. faterdom
    faterdom 29 January 2018 19: 09
    +1
    Correctly. And all over the world, Kovrov should compete in this field with Izhevsk, and not China with Romania and Bulgaria - as in the traditional Kalash, which we have so rashly squandered. And some even built factories. At our expense, as usual.
  14. erased
    erased 29 January 2018 19: 14
    +5
    Why not 20 options? To each regiment own machine. Some kind of crap! You can still understand by different calibers, but by different systems ?!
    In the fall, at the Arms and Hunting exhibition, a KK representative announced that the AK-12/15 was unambiguously accepted, and small lots of AEK would be ordered to support Degtyarev’s factory. Although if the military cut off the first version of the AK-12 because of the high price, then AEKs do not dance at all, they are much more expensive.
    In a word, again, no ambiguity, everything is decided not by common sense, but by profit.
  15. Herculesic
    Herculesic 29 January 2018 19: 19
    +6
    The USSR army had four medium tanks! The Russian army wants to have two machines at once! With our mess in logistics, we’ll still hear hundreds of times how the wrong parts were delivered to the wrong machine! And it will not only be inside the country!
    1. weddu
      weddu 29 January 2018 21: 48
      0
      Well, the Degtyarev Plant survived 90_e, it didn’t bend, it’s not a state one, but a part of it. So there is someone to think about the future ...
  16. akm8226
    akm8226 29 January 2018 19: 23
    +2
    The decision is logical - one barrel complements the other. One for general use, so to speak, the other for the educated. This is gut. Glory to those eggs that it is possible to do both - soon, I can smell the trunks.
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 30 January 2018 01: 07
      0
      The modern generation in technical terms is an order of magnitude (moral and knowledge of history, of course worse) is superior to us old-timers. So it may be enough for people to constantly blame stupidity. This is not a question of the complexity of the product, but the price / performance ratio
  17. senima56
    senima56 29 January 2018 19: 52
    +1
    Oh really?!?!?!?!?! This is me, if I’m not mistaken, the fifth time I hear "decided to adopt ..." Yes, nothing!
  18. Genry
    Genry 29 January 2018 19: 53
    +5
    The decision to make machines is unripe.
    They are both morally obsolete. We need a weapon with the ability to use modern sighting devices, so that the mounting bracket of the sights is rigidly (forever) connected to the barrel. An example of the right direction in the layout is a Chukavin microwave sniper rifle. It was created by the design of a small-sized machine Dragunov (MA). (https://topwar.ru/94641-malogabaritnyy-avtomat-dr
    agunova.html). From this microwave, you can again return to the assault machine.

    For close combat there is a large-caliber automatic machine 12,7 mm ShAK 12, convenient for a quick turn in cramped conditions inside buildings.
    1. Longin
      Longin 29 January 2018 22: 50
      0
      That's just the microwave is not a rifle, but a carbine. Only 53 caliber in barrel length. Too small for 7.62 × 54R. Ballistics will be correspondingly worse. This is not even for Marxman.
      1. Genry
        Genry 29 January 2018 23: 07
        0
        This is a Marxman. A slight shortening does not play a role. How much time we lose to accelerate a bullet in the barrel (exposure time), at the final stage - nothing at all.
        And the ratio of barrel length, look at BCC. Let the weak energy of the shot, but it hits accurately (according to ballistics).
        1. John22
          John22 30 January 2018 21: 39
          +1
          The barrel is shortened by 140 mm. And this in your opinion does not matter? Yes there and the gunpowder still does not burn! For the range and say nothing.
          1. Genry
            Genry 31 January 2018 14: 24
            0
            Quote: John22
            The barrel is shortened by 140 mm. And this in your opinion does not matter? Yes there and the gunpowder still does not burn! For the range and say nothing.

            During the passage of a 140 mm bullet, no gunpowder has time to burn out (in general, this is normal).
            If you have gunpowder, then you need gunpowder burning at a higher pressure, respectively, creating more pressure in the bore (but this is not our case).
        2. Longin
          Longin 4 February 2018 13: 38
          0
          Have you ever shot from these samples?
          Ballistics is not accuracy. This is the steepness of the parabola of the trajectory of the bullet and the time of its flight to the target, and, therefore, the magnitude of the lead.
          The Marxman rifle is a self-loading rifle (and on a carbine) with a rifle barrel and optics up to 8 times magnification, for effective work on targets at a distance of up to 800 meters. Those. the difference with a full-fledged sniper rifle is a smaller effective range of fire and a high density of fire.
          BCC is a special carbine. Purpose - silent defeat by a heavy bullet at a distance of up to 500 meters. If it is necessary to achieve the subsonic speed of the bullet, a longer barrel is not required.
          PS What is the "weak energy of the shot" do not explain?
          1. Genry
            Genry 4 February 2018 14: 20
            0
            Quote: Longin
            Have you ever shot from these samples?

            Specifically, no. Have you tried vodka on gooseberries?
            Quote: Longin
            Ballistics is not accuracy.

            I wrote that “it hits exactly”, but an addition was required to this, taking into account ballistics (because the bullet is slow and falls heavily), i.e. the rifle has a small spread.
            Quote: Longin
            This is the steepness of the parabola of the trajectory of the bullet and the time of its flight to the target, and, therefore, the magnitude of the lead.

            What parabola? Do you think with your own head or repeat the words of the ensign instructing you? A ballistic trajectory is a curve describing the flight of a projectile (bullet) under the influence of forces of attraction and resistance. And which side to ballistics has the lead?
            Quote: Longin
            The Marxman rifle is a self-loading rifle (and on a carbine) with a rifle barrel and optics up to 8 times magnification, for effective work on targets at a distance of up to 800 meters. Those. the difference with a full-fledged sniper rifle is a smaller effective range of fire and a high density of fire.

            How does this (abstract narrative) contradict what I said? Do you want to change the subject?
            Quote: Longin
            BCC is a special carbine. Purpose - silent defeat by a heavy bullet at a distance of up to 500 meters. If it is necessary to achieve the subsonic speed of the bullet, a longer barrel is not required.

            The carbine is not a carbine, but it was about accuracy with a small barrel ratio. And they call it with us (I don’t know where you are) sniper ... by tradition. Wiki: "BCC (Special Sniper Rifle) - a silent sniper rifle for special forces.". And the barrel here is shortened to reduce the length of the weapon, but to a considerable detriment to the cartridge and the silencer (more weight of gunpowder).
            Quote: Longin
            PS What is the "weak energy of the shot" do not explain?

            And what is there to explain, the very weak energy of a bullet when exiting the barrel. Bullet 16g., Up to 292m / s - an energy of 650 J. (a little more than a pistol). Is this news for you? For more energy use a similar weapon under the new 12,7 mm cartridge.
            1. Longin
              Longin 8 February 2018 23: 26
              0
              It is very difficult to communicate with people who do not know the weapon terminology, in addition to those who want to smartly build themselves an expert in a dispute with gunmen.
              Here is an assignment for independent preparation:
              1. Rifle, Carbine, Bastard - find out what the difference is (hint: barrel length / caliber)
              2. The dependence of the magnitude of the adopted correction for the lead on the time of flight of the projectile / bullet to a moving target.
              3. Microwave rifle or carbine? (see paragraph 1) How much will the microwave accuracy be higher than SKS-45?
              4. What is the "muzzle energy of a bullet / projectile" - I know. I don’t know what "shot energy" is (I have NEWS that the muzzle energy of the SP-5 or SP-6 bullet fired from Vintorez is "very weak." At 150 meters, the SP-6 bullet pierced the breast steel from 6B23. For greater energy, use RPG-7))).
              The word "rifle" in "BCC" - for infantry blockheads, which are not aware of technical weapons terms. What to take from them? This is because they coined the term “automatic machine”. BCC is structurally a self-loading / automatic (ASK "Val") rifled short-barreled weapon, due to the specificity of the ammunition used, positioned between a submachine gun and a carbine. And yes - this is a "sniper" weapon, because it is designed for precision shooting. And the barrel here is not "shortened to reduce the length of the weapon", its length, the steepness of the rifling and the placement of the holes were calculated at the stage of designing weapons as optimal for the ammunition used.
              The assault weapon chambered for 12,7 mm of the ShAK type, even in the hypothesis, is not designed for the tasks performed by the BCC and ASK. Its purpose is a guaranteed target defeat in SIBZ not close range. The accuracy there is "pistol".
              Z.Y. Once you get to the bottom of the “parabola”, then: The bullet does not fly along an arc (which in fact is a parabola) but along a complex curved path of a bending spiral twisted under the force of Coriolis and external factors. But this is if you look closely)))
              I wish you success in the independent study of weapons, if it really interests you.
              1. Genry
                Genry 9 February 2018 06: 04
                0
                Quote: Longin
                1. Rifle, carbine, Bass

                Where did you get the bastard from? Have you formulated it yourself?
                Quote: Longin
                2. The dependence of the magnitude of the adopted correction for the lead on the time of flight of the projectile / bullet to a moving target.

                This has nothing to do with ballistics. Namely, you attributed all this to her.
                Quote: Longin
                3. Microwave rifle or carbine? (see paragraph 1) How much will the microwave accuracy be higher than SKS-45?

                Given your desire to pull the word "carabiner", it is more suitable for a full-sized assault rifle with an intermediate cartridge. SCS also shoots an intermediate cartridge. The microwave does not fit into carbines, using an already rifle cartridge with a higher shot power. IMHO a carbine is something that can be used with one hand.
                The bullet of the cartridge 7,62x54R has better aerodynamic quality compared to the bullet of the cartridge 7,62x39, therefore, the random deviation will be lower.
                Quote: Longin
                For me, NEWS that the muzzle energy of a SP-5 or SP-6 bullet fired from Vintorez is "very weak." At 150 meters, the SP-6 bullet pierced the breast steel from 6B23.

                If your SP-6 has broken through armor class 150 (in the old way) by 3, then your armor is hack work.
                He must stop bullets with energy twice as much and from 10 meters (5,45 simple core from Kalash).
                Quote: Longin
                The word "rifle" in "BCC" - for infantry blockheads, which are not aware of technical weapons terms.

                Your terms have a bunch of inconsistencies, so what is now commonly called officially accepted. Your slang is just your slang.
                Quote: Longin
                And yes - this is a "sniper" weapon, because it is designed for precision shooting.

                Your claim was in the ratio of barrel length (length in calibers) when talking about microwave. Now you forgot about it.
                Quote: Longin
                And the barrel here is not "shortened to reduce the length of the weapon"

                And I didn’t say that he was circumcised ... You just already troll ... And in that trunk, about a third of the length, there are openings for a quiet exit of gases.
                Quote: Longin
                The assault weapon chambered for 12,7 mm of the ShAK type, even in the hypothesis, is not designed for the tasks performed by the BCC and ASK.

                Just the accuracy there is identical to the BCC. Just a much larger energy of the 12,7 mm bullet strikes a much higher class armor protection.
                Quote: Longin
                The bullet does not fly in an arc (which is essentially a parabola), but in a complex curved path of a bending spiral twisted under the force of Coriolis and external factors.

                About the power of Coriolis, at a distance of 1000 m, you can not think. But you forgot about the terrible-terrible derivation (to remember, there is a 57 mm anti-aircraft gun "Derivation-Air Defense"). This one with 100 m will unscrew your brains.
                And forget about the parabola (this is at the level of ensign).
                Quote: Longin
                I wish you success in the independent study of weapons, if it really interests you.

                Well, if you have questions, please contact ...
                1. Longin
                  Longin 11 February 2018 21: 06
                  0
                  Learn the mat. part.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 12 February 2018 11: 23
                    0
                    Quote: Longin
                    Learn the mat. part.

                    You also need physics, at least in the school version ...
    2. Finnish_Spitz
      Finnish_Spitz 30 January 2018 14: 25
      +1
      Why aiming devices for infantry Van, from which the majority will shoot towards the enemy, and not at the enemy? And how are they morally obsolete that they invented some other principle of projectile throwing? By and large, a soldier needs an assault rifle to be just in case and finish off what artillery did not finish off. The only thing I applaud is some modernization in ergonomics, the addition of shutter lag, and fire modes. And so both AK-74 and AKM do their job perfectly. So the very thing is a smooth replacement of weapons for wear.
      1. Genry
        Genry 30 January 2018 15: 22
        0
        Quote: Finnish_Spitz
        Why aiming devices for infantry Van, from which the majority will shoot towards the enemy, and not at the enemy?

        The front sight and rear sight greatly limit the view, even knowing where the target is, you can drive the trunk for a long time until you find it. By placing a collimator you see all the space around the aiming point, this dramatically increases your chances of hitting an enemy (in fact, it only calls). Or you can put the optics, or add a night sight (the militia and the saloons also have to shoot at night).
        1. Finnish_Spitz
          Finnish_Spitz 30 January 2018 20: 23
          +2
          But is it not expensive to supply collimators to create a noise effect, the main combat unit of the squad is a machine gunner, the rest is the background. Yes, and an open sight gives a pretty good overview. Do not be like idiots and put a diopter. They have to shoot, only their combat and psychological training allows at best to shoot towards the enemy, with or without a collimator. Among them, there are only a few who will behave professionally, and a professional will be able to shoot from any weapon at the target. Play less shooters.
          1. Genry
            Genry 31 January 2018 14: 52
            +1
            Quote: Finnish_Spitz
            But is it not expensive to supply collimators to create a noise effect, the main combat unit of the squad is a machine gunner, the rest is the background.

            Combat effectiveness and survivability is not a subject of bargaining, but against the background of the costs of equipping, training and maintaining this "background", a collimator is just a grain of sand.
            According to your logic, you can fire everyone except the machine gunner ... Promotion and mutual cover is not a noise background for you, but military work.
            Quote: Finnish_Spitz
            Do not be like idiots and put a diopter.

            Why are you here "diopter" dragged ??? In the morning were you likened?
            Quote: Finnish_Spitz
            Among them, there are only a few who will behave professionally, and a professional will be able to shoot from any weapon at the target.

            Who are "them"? I understand that you are “not a writer”, but you need to seriously read your writings on the clarity of expressing your thoughts.
            And in the assault operations, the militia and the Salag are not actively involved.
            And professionals need much better equipment than ordinary fighters. Here you can’t get off with collimators alone. Here and weapons, sharpened for each specific tactical situation and armor protection ....
            Quote: Finnish_Spitz
            Play less shooters.

            Your shooters are already to blame. They are just an attempt to simulate a real situation ... There is no imagination (if this is a normal realistic shooter).

            When viewing, set the resolution to 720 or better ...
            1. Finnish_Spitz
              Finnish_Spitz 2 February 2018 16: 12
              0
              Go ahead play, "warrior."
              1. Genry
                Genry 2 February 2018 17: 22
                0
                Quote: Finnish_Spitz
                Go ahead play, "warrior."

                Your fantasy has broken out ... The video is taken arbitrarily, for example.
                Are you so hooked there (in the video)? You were gone for a long time ...
  19. Bypassed
    Bypassed 29 January 2018 19: 58
    0
    Too shy to ask in AEK-971, AEK-973 implemented the principle of firing bursts of two rounds?
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 29 January 2018 23: 09
      +1
      What for? This is AEK.
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 30 January 2018 21: 40
      +1
      Quote: PASSED BY
      Too shy to ask in AEK-971, AEK-973 implemented the principle of firing bursts of two rounds?

      both machines have a cutoff mode of three rounds. Although the AEK-971 initially had a cut-off of 2 shots, and, from my point of view, it was more correct. The third bullet is already flying the wrong way.
    3. Genry
      Genry 31 January 2018 15: 29
      0
      Quote: PASSED BY
      AEK-971, AEK-973 implemented the principle of firing bursts of two rounds?

      Cut-off, at a rate of fire of 600 rds / min. is not necessary.
      It is much more important to have a single-shot mode, with the transition to the queue, when the trigger is pressed. This would save from many surprises.
  20. Operator
    Operator 29 January 2018 20: 03
    0
    A shameful decision - at a minimum, there should not be a pair of AK-12 / AK-15 and AEK-971 / AEK-973 assault rifles, but there should be one AK and one AEK with interchangeable barrels and bolts, like a probable opponent.

    Izhevtsy and Kovrovtsy “didn’t die” even of this smallness am
    1. Genry
      Genry 29 January 2018 20: 14
      0
      Can you explain why?
      Will you carry a kit for the second caliber with you? Surely you will lose him. In this weight (and throwing the gun away) you can take the second weapon.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 January 2018 20: 26
        0
        Can you understand?

        The second barrel and the bolt abroad are not issued to the infantryman - the machines are equipped with the desired barrel and bolt before that. Modularity and quick detachment are, first of all, unification of the structure and reduction of production costs due to this, and secondly (in the form of a bonus) the ability to change the barrel at the base of the special forces before a special operation, for example, for firing subsonic cartridges with PBS.

        The good news is that this “neither fish / meat” solution will be implemented only on paper in the part of AK-12 / AK-15, which are nothing (apart from the price, of course) from AK-74 and AKM.
      2. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 29 January 2018 20: 30
        +2
        Quote: Genry
        You will carry a kit for the second caliber

        What for? This is a modular weapon construction system. The first step is interchangeable barrels for an assault rifle of the same caliber, from light short to long and heavy machine gun (sniper). The second step is already a kit for changing the caliber. The result is that based on one machine guns (assault rifles) get the whole range of small arms infantry weapons - from a short-barreled machine gun to a sniper (Marxman) rifle and light machine gun
        1. poquello
          poquello 29 January 2018 21: 10
          +4
          Quote: Gregory_45
          What for? This is a modular weapon construction system.

          sho again?
        2. Genry
          Genry 29 January 2018 22: 54
          +5
          Quote: Gregory_45
          This is a modular weapon construction system. The first step is interchangeable barrels for an assault rifle of one caliber, from light short to long and heavy machine gun (sniper).

          The modular system involves interchangeable modules around the weapon (sights, handles, bipods, flashlights), and not inside.
          And with a sniper module - this is generally indicative naivety. Will you shoot him after replacing the barrel? With others it is simpler but "not the case." A sniper rifle needs its own adjustable butt (as well as adjusting the sensitivity of the descent). For a machine gun - your own with a shoulder ledge and a grip. For close combat, you need a bullpup .... Plus you want different calibres, and there are different lengths of cartridges that require different shutter speeds, different stiffness of the return mechanism and different lengths of the receiver ... In short, with your modularity (with assembly on the knee) You will get a bunch of iron, which will behave inappropriately and pull in weight for a set of full-fledged specialized weapons.
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 29 January 2018 23: 35
            +2
            Quote: Genry
            The modular system involves interchangeable modules around the weapon (sights, handles, bipods, flashlights), and not inside

            Modularity is just the main parts. Flashlights and stuff is a kit. Directly does not affect weapon characteristics
            Quote: Genry
            In short, with such your modularity (with assembly on the knee) you will get a bunch of iron

            who says "on the knee"? I talked about the fact that a whole system of weapons is being built on one base.
          2. insular
            insular 30 January 2018 04: 49
            0
            Quote: Genry
            The modular system involves interchangeable modules around the weapon (sights, handles, bipods, flashlights), and not inside.

            No, here is a modular weapon:

            or here

            Quote: Genry
            . Will you shoot him after replacing the barrel? With others it is simpler but "not the case." A sniper rifle needs its own adjustable butt (as well as adjusting the sensitivity of the descent). For a machine gun - your own with a shoulder ledge and a grip. For close combat, you need a bullpup .... Plus you want different calibers, and there are different lengths of ammunition that require different shutter speeds, different stiffness of the return mechanism and different lengths of the receiver ...

            This is modularity. All cho you listed is typed in modules (see above).
            About the gunfight - are you so joking? I think so, and after changing the sight, would you not shoot? laughing Of course it is NECESSARY! So that then there would be no surprise, from the fact that the enemy remained alive, and you already somehow didn’t.
            1. Genry
              Genry 30 January 2018 14: 49
              +1
              Quote: insular
              No, here is a modular weapon:

              These are not modules ... This is a scattering of three samples that, for the sake of fun, are made compatible and have lost a higher level of specialization. You will never use a short barrel with a sniper butt and a trigger.
              Quote: insular
              About the gunfight - are you so joking? I think so, and after changing the sight, would you not shoot? laughing Of course NECESSARY! So that then there would be no surprise, from the fact that the enemy remained alive, and you already somehow didn’t.

              But didn’t he talk about it? Weapons must be collected and shot once and for all (almost ...). Even during the battle, you may need to change weapons (sniper - machine gun - grenade launcher) with different sights and settings. Your pictures here immediately become recycled paper.
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 30 January 2018 22: 19
                +1
                In general, it seems that we are talking about different things, and even in different languages. It is enough to look at your view on modularity as "carrying all trunks with you." Didn’t see anything else? Who told you that all interchangeable barrels, butts, bolts should not be carried with you and change them during the battle in the trench? Do you really think that a fighter in a trench knee-deep in mud, at night by the light of a flashlight, will begin to sculpt a Marxamian rifle from an automatic machine? Weapons are selected and collected before exiting.
                And some still trump (well, at least you can partially agree) that "in the arms they are afraid of heaps of interchangeable barrels, bolts and other lost parts" - in Russian they are afraid to pass ... accountable parts of the machine, which, as it were, are not there when disassembled and do not understand how complete. This is from the opera "rocket-propelled grenade" (well, RPG-18 for example) - how to write off, like a grenade or grenade launcher? Like a disposable one, the fighter does not drag the pipe back to the warehouse. And like a grenade launcher .. a dilemma on ..
                Modularity implies that on a single basis (which does not change from weapon to weapon - say, the receiver and the trigger), you collect what you need in a particular operation. Maybe you’ll collect it once and for all your life, or maybe tomorrow you’ll come back to the armory and demand a machine gun or a sniper instead of an assault rifle if the task requires it.
                For industry, it is a plus to produce uniform, interchangeable parts. For training, too (the controls for all weapons are equally located, the principle of operation is the same, it is assembled and disassembled the same way, etc.)
                It is clear that we are not used to it. It’s more common to see separately the PP, machine gun, machine gun and SVDshku. But the fact of the matter is that this is just a matter of habit.
                Modularity is opportunity replacing the barrel, shutter, etc. without significant investment of time and a special tool or machinery, not a saint duty.
                How the weapon loses its qualities from this - I stubbornly do not understand. Just do not give specific examples as an example, such as BCC, etc. What will be the difference between the Marxman rifle, machine gun and light machine gun? Barrel, butt, optics and shop. By and large all
                Indeed, look carefully as the Germans did, at least for the example of the aforementioned NK433
                1. Genry
                  Genry 4 February 2018 16: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  It is enough to look at your view on modularity as "carrying all trunks with you." Didn’t see anything else? Who told you that all interchangeable barrels, butts, bolts should not be carried with you and change them during the battle in the trench? Do you really think that a fighter in a trench knee-deep in mud, at night by the light of a flashlight, will begin to sculpt a Marxamian rifle from an automatic machine? Weapons are selected and collected before exiting.

                  What can you choose from this modular kit? For battle, you need two types of weapons (not counting hand, fired and rocket-propelled grenades). For stripping in the village: a Marksman microwave (7,62x54R) and an automatic machine ASh-12 (12,7 × 55 mm); For short-term defense "in the field": a sniper bolt (cartridge 8,6-70 mm) for remote cover and automatic (6,5x39) for running up. To attack “in the field”: an automatic (6,5x39) and a Marxman microwave (7,62x54R), for different fighters in the group (the first run across, the second cover and pull up).
                  How can this be unified or made modular?
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  Modularity is the ability to replace the barrel, shutter, etc. without significant time and special tools or machinery

                  Why is this necessary if the wear is even (designers try).
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  What will be the difference between the Marxman rifle, machine gun and light machine gun? Barrel, butt, optics and shop.

                  The purpose of the weapon is primarily determined by the ammunition.
                  A light machine gun has already become a convention for an assault rifle with a large supply of cartridges (we don’t want to mess with the tape - and they’re doing it right, you can use a drum for any fighter).
                  Marksman - this is what he puts down with one shot and the intermediate cartridge is useless here - you definitely need a rifle.
                  Sniper is a precision powerful cartridge for long distances and a bolt mechanism.
                  A machine gun is portable Weapons with tape power and cocked shutter, and not hand (from another opera).
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  How the weapon loses its qualities from this - I stubbornly do not understand.

                  Why try to drive all this under one assembly standard if it weakens the strength of powerful weapons or makes light types heavier? And non-factory, simplified assembly ability gives less overall reliability (there will be cases of "scattering"). I trust the welded or pressed trunk more than the fastened one.
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  Indeed, look carefully as the Germans did, at least for the example of the aforementioned NK433

                  Most do not need a “shortcut” (only to the rear, just in case ...). And supposedly the Marxman and the under-machine gun and the sniper curve are not needed at all.
              2. insular
                insular 30 January 2018 23: 14
                0
                Quote: Genry
                These are not modules ... This is a scattering of three samples that, for the sake of fun, are made compatible and have lost a higher level of specialization.

                1. Complete interchangeability of nodes (modules) - this is modularity.
                2. "Fun for the sake" is only in your delusions. In real life, you do not need to have several production lines for several different types of gunners for different tasks. One manufacturer, one element base, one level of quality control. Standardization is such a word. They even try to create heavy equipment modular. Have you heard about Armata platform? Well, how did you get together in the field to do BAT from MBT? No way ?, but the platform is modular ...
                3. "Lost a higher level of specialization" - this is also from the category of your personal errors. Those. you want to say that the Kalash zoo is not a loss of specialization? And again, as an example, Armata.
                Quote: Genry
                But didn’t he talk about it? Weapons must be collected and shot once and for all (almost ...).

                And how does one contradict the other? Not like that. But if you made any modifications to the weapon - shoot. Changed sights - shoot. Dropped and worried that there was a shift in the sight - shoot. So then there was no surprise. This is even the hunters know ... You apparently only heard weapons, but did not see?
                Quote: Genry
                Even during the battle, you may need to change weapons (sniper - machine gun - grenade launcher) with different sights and settings. Your pictures here immediately become recycled paper
                And this is another misconception in your head. Someone wrote that for the place of the assembled trunk you need to drag a bunch of modules? Read carefully before drawing conclusions.
      3. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 29 January 2018 20: 32
        +4
        look what the Germans with NK433 did. Can be envied
        1. Genry
          Genry 29 January 2018 22: 57
          +2
          It’s too early to say. They promised too much with this NK433 ...
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 29 January 2018 23: 30
            +4
            Quote: Genry
            It’s too early to say. They promised too much with this NK433

            The system is good. All "grebes" they have taken into account. Actually, an example for the sake of how "incredible friends" build modular systems. The Germans did even better than the Avtriyakov from "Steyr"
    2. Maks400
      Maks400 29 January 2018 20: 47
      +2
      The expert would be silent -_-
  21. Korax71
    Korax71 29 January 2018 20: 06
    +6
    Ak 12 will go to the economy version. There will be no shutter lag and a safety lock for the thumb. As a result, we get the same AK74 with an ergonomic handle and telescopic butt, and with the possibility of firing a fixed burst. Also, they will leave the store adjoining unit unchanged. As they said eliminated the main drawbacks. just as the bolt frame flew under a kilo weight, it stayed the same as there was a shitty blocking of the barrel bore, and it remained. although these two things have a much greater effect on the accuracy of the fire than anything else. Well, about the new barrel is modern. Manenko. What is the use of changing the shape of the rifling when the bore is not processed and chrome plating should be done at 12 purity levels. Well, they didn’t get rid of the barrel clamping in the fly area either. how much monotonous and tough will it close?
  22. Azazelo
    Azazelo 29 January 2018 20: 11
    +1
    Well, here it is - the right decision. Both work enough. For new OCD, money will appear.
  23. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 29 January 2018 20: 40
    +4
    in short, we remained with Kalash again, they still can’t do anything better, but it’s a pity, for accuracy, it has long been out of line with modern realities
    1. Maks400
      Maks400 29 January 2018 20: 47
      +3
      Ugh on you -_-
    2. weddu
      weddu 29 January 2018 21: 58
      +2
      .. yes, for some reason in computer toys AK not so much ..
      1. _Jack_
        _Jack_ 29 January 2018 23: 53
        +1
        For a long time, all of it was removed from service, even countries such as Vietnam, only in poor African countries remained in service, do you think why? After all, he is the very best in the world, but for some reason they don’t want to leave him in service. One minus, but it is significant - low accuracy
        1. weddu
          weddu 30 January 2018 01: 56
          +6
          I remember one of our shooting ranges was next to the Magyarsky. And so they are being shot by the "Marines" from the Danube Flotilla from their Pontic licensed Kalash, with a pistol grip on the forearm, a more convenient butt, from the stop, because of cover, at a short distance .., and, shamelessly, we smear it, we see it. And our soldiers perform the exercise, it goes, the growth target rises, it hits it, it goes, the chest target appears, it hits it from the knee, then it runs, moving targets appear, the soldier falls and hits them lying down. All the fighters performed this exercise on 4 and 5, the machine gunners had a harder time, they just had a fly from the aiming bar farther, to reduce it worse ... What am I doing? Shooting can be taught from any weapon. But when you live a month and sleep in the frost with an unwashed ass, when the foot-socks are in the color of tarpaulin boots, in dirty wet uniforms ... these are not computer toys ... Go outside now, crawl on your belly for a week without going home, from time broken for cleaning high-tech weapons with their hands dirty with their hands frostbite from frost and dirty slush ...
          1. _Jack_
            _Jack_ 30 January 2018 14: 34
            0
            The effectiveness of any weapon is the sum of all its properties. Reliability is one of these properties, very important, no one disputes, but weapons cannot be considered effective according to only one criterion. In the aggregate of all the properties of AK, unfortunately, over the past 70 years. We are again taking it into service only because there is nothing to replace, nothing our gunsmiths can offer better than the development machine of 1947. And in the rest of the world they abandoned him. Even those whom you can’t suspect of a biased attitude towards AK have refused. For example, the same Vietnam. They defended their independence with Kalash, they bent the Americans, because they already know the value of this weapon and its reliability in the conditions of the marshes of Vietnam. And you can’t name them rich much, nevertheless even they removed AK from armament. Maybe we’ll take the three-ruler back into service, because the legendary weapon.
            1. bunta
              bunta 30 January 2018 15: 09
              +2
              Quote: _Jack_
              the same Vietnam. They defended their independence with Kalash, they bent the Americans, because they already know the value of this weapon and its reliability in the conditions of the marshes of Vietnam. And you can’t name them rich much, nevertheless even they removed AK from armament.

              In which place? In 2014, they expressed a desire to build a plant for the production of a sodden version of AK called Galil ACE. It seems to be changing slowly or do you have other more recent information on this?
              1. _Jack_
                _Jack_ 30 January 2018 15: 25
                0
                Galil ACE-31 and ACE-32, although they are a further development of AK, but this is a different machine, and it has nothing to do with the Kalashnikov concern. A trigger mechanism was taken from a Soviet machine gun, a scheme of the operation of automation using the pressure of powder gases, a system for locking the bore with a rotary shutter, a shutter and a shutter frame. The remaining parts were created on our own or taken from the North American M16 assault rifle, the Belgian FN FAL and the Finnish M62.
                1. bunta
                  bunta 30 January 2018 16: 16
                  +3
                  That is, they took the most reliable and tested components from AK, put svistoperdelok on them and called them the "further" development of AK. And vparil narrow-eyed. World agents of Zionism.
  24. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 29 January 2018 22: 01
    0
    Everything is correct, but practice will show that it is better ... Yes, it is more expensive in money, but cheaper in human lives ...
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 29 January 2018 22: 38
      0
      It’s already a long time ago not better. Just as this life has long shown.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. beeper
    beeper 30 January 2018 02: 00
    +3
    So, just like that, they again deviated from the Decision in the RF Ministry of Defense, but “decided” to “give” all sisters by earrings “, Izhevsk and Kovrov? winked
    The Solomon Solution? smile
    It vividly reminded me of the absurd situation with Soviet T-64 tanks and its Ural and Leningrad clones. IMHO is a non-optimal dispersion of resources (and so limited!).
    But, as you know, the strictness of laws has long been compensated for in Russia by their optional enforcement, let us hope that this time common sense will prevail with a “silent glanders”, in an explicit order. yes .
  27. Wolka
    Wolka 30 January 2018 05: 12
    0
    and it became so much time to break the spears, and a lot of money was stolen, and from where they started to that and came
  28. Valery Saitov
    Valery Saitov 30 January 2018 07: 46
    0
    Reason prevailed over emotions. That's good.
  29. Engineer
    Engineer 30 January 2018 08: 49
    +1
    All the same, they have absorbed their junk! Well, I didn’t doubt the victory of Kalashnikov. With such lobbying by Rostec. And the Kovrovites got a consolation prize: a couple of thousand will be bought for the special forces and that's enough, while Kalash will go in the hundreds of thousands. Ak-74MMM ...
  30. John22
    John22 30 January 2018 09: 32
    +1
    This is still talk. I would like to see officially accepted samples of machines. Over the years, heaped up so much under different names.
  31. dDYHA
    dDYHA 30 January 2018 12: 38
    0
    Strong oaks are our defense. For special. troops can be produced and purchased even from potential enemies in a limited amount of anything. But it was already when the SCS and AK were in service. Decided that AK is better and all. Maybe here you need to choose one view. One thing is clear that Degtyarev is better than Kalashnikov and everything else is water.