Military Review

Russian army in 1914 was sent for slaughter

260
Russian army in 1914 was sent for slaughterIn February, a prominent statesman, former Interior Minister Peter Nikolaevich Durnovo, submitted an extensive report to Nicholas II, saying that “even a victory over Germany would not give Russia anything of value.” “Poznan? East Prussia? But why do we need these areas, densely populated by Poles, when we are not so easy to cope with Russian Poles? - stated in the document. - Galicia? This is a hotbed of dangerous "Little Russian separatism." Moreover, Durnovo pointed out, “the conclusion of a lucrative trade agreement with Germany does not at all require a preliminary defeat of Germany.” On the contrary, in the event of such a defeat, "we would lose a valuable market." In addition, Russia would have fallen into "financial bondage" to its creditors, allies.


“It begins with the fact that all the failures will be attributed to the government. Legislative institutions will start a fierce campaign against him ... Revolutionary speeches will begin in the country ... The army, deprived of the most reliable personnel, embraced for the most part by a spontaneous common peasant desire for land, will be too demoralized to serve as a bulwark of law and order ... Russia will be plunged into hopeless anarchy, the outcome of which defies even foresight, ”the report emphasized.

MYTH ABOUT BROTHERS

It is believed that by entering the war, we thereby defended the brother-Slavs! Alas, these little brothers were rather scandalous characters and quarreled during the Balkan Wars.

Thus, on the eve of the war, Russia transferred 75 guns to Bulgaria, including eight 11-inch (280-mm) guns. And October 14 1915 Bulgaria entered the war, and the people explained: "The Rasputin clique declared war on us."

28 June 1914, the Serbian terrorist Gavril Princip, killed the heir to the Austrian throne, Archduke Ferdinand and his wife Elizabeth. This was not an action of a lone fanatic. Dozens of people participated in the assassination, including senior Serbian officers, including the Serbian intelligence chief Dragutin Dmitrievich (pseudonym Apis). Austro-Hungarian investigators and a number of foreign historians claimed that Colonel Viktor Alekseevich Artamonov, a military agent (attache) of Russia, and his deputy, Captain Alexander Ivanovich Verkhovsky, were involved in organizing the assassination attempt.

Personally, I have no evidence of the guilt of these officers. Later, Artamonov boasted an alibi - on the day of the attempt he was in Italy, although not far from the Austrian border. Well, Verkhovsky is still that goose! He was a prominent mason of the “Military Lodge”. In August 1917, Kerensky appointed him Minister of War. In December, 1918, he joined the Bolsheviks, and in 1922, at the Genoa Conference, he was the main Soviet military expert. He was shot 19 August 1938 of the year, but 28 October 1956 rehabilitated.

I note that both Artamonov and the Russian ambassador to Serbia, Nikolai Genrikhovich Gartvig, were also masons. At the same time, it is reliably known that Verkhovsky was constantly in contact with Apis. Meanwhile, Apis and three other leaders of the Serbian intelligence service in the spring of 1917, by a Serbian court, were found guilty of organizing an assassination attempt and were sentenced to death.

I personally did not do this business and leave a question mark. However, two days after the assassination attempt, Nicholas II ordered to send X-NUMX thousands of Mosin rifles and a million cartridges to Serbia.

WHO WAS A PROFITABLE WAR

23 August Austria-Hungary presented an ultimatum to Serbia. Austria began mobilization directed against Serbia, and Russia, in response, began a general mobilization. From July 15 to August 1, 1914 almost continuously exchanged telegrams between Kaiser Wilhelm II and Emperor Nicholas II. Kaiser persuaded the king to stop mobilization, but he refused. As a final argument, the Kaiser threatened to declare war and, without receiving a response, declared it. Formally, the Germans were the first to start a war. But, first, Wilhelm did not want war in 1914. Secondly, the German strategists planned an offensive in the west and a defense in the east.

So who benefited from the "Great War"?

After Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Austrian generals and a group of bankers wanted to join Serbia with their patchwork empire. I note that from the southern border of Serbia to the Dardanelles only 300 km, and to the Aegean Sea - only 50 km.

The French have already 40 over the years dreamed of revenge for the 1870 year and was eager to tear away Alsace and Lorraine from Germany.

The British were afraid for their colonies, suffered from the competition of powerful German industry, and most of all they were afraid of the rapid strengthening of the German naval fleet. The German battleships had better artillery, armor and survivability than the British, and in terms of the number of dreadnoughts, both countries should have been equal in 1918–1920.

Germany wanted to curb the French revenge-seekers and with lust looked at the huge British colonies, over which "the sun never set."

Thus, in 1914, the war met the vital interests of all the great European powers. All except Russia.

Having become involved in the war, neither the king, nor his ministers and generals defined the goals of the war. I repeat, we are not talking about the fact that these goals were reactionary or obviously not feasible. The fact is that neither the king nor the ministers were able to formulate the future of "united" Poland after the victory over Germany and Austria-Hungary. There were enough options, including official statements by Nicholas II, the commander of the Russian army of Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich, as well as foreign ministers, but all of them were contradictory and uncertain.

In 1916 – 1917, Russian troops seized a fair amount of Turkish territory, including the cities of Trabzon, Erzurum, Erzijan, Bitlis, and others. Again, the king, ministers and generals did not know what to do with them.

They seized Galicia from Austria temporarily, and again the question: whether to annex it to the future Poland, or to make the Russian province, or to give Little Russia autonomy and include Galicia in it? As they say, "extraordinary ease of thought."

What to do with the Straits after the victory? The still unforgettable Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote: "And once again that Constantinople, it’s too early, too late, and what should be ours."

In November 1914, the vice-director of the Foreign Ministry’s office, Nikolai Alexandrovich Basili, compiled a secret note “On our goals in the Straits.” It said:

"The strategic importance of the Straits is to control the passage of ships from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea and back ... The Straits are an excellent operational base for fleet operations in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea ...

... The complete resolution of the issue of the Straits is possible only by directly asserting our authority on the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles with part of the Aegean Islands and sufficient Hinterland (adjacent areas. - A.Sh.) so that their possession is firm. Only such a decision ... - one thing corresponds to our great power, giving us a new means for expanding the world significance of our fatherland. "

It is curious that already in the course of the war, England and France promised Russia to Constantinople, while they themselves concluded a secret separative agreement under which they mutually promised not to give the Straits to Russia. Moreover, both London and Paris hatched plans for the division of the Russian Empire after the defeat of Germany. The Priislensky Territory, the Baltic States, Finland, and whenever possible both Ukraine and the Caucasus were subject to withdrawal.

THREE LINES OF STRENGTHS

For the Russian Empire, as later for the USSR, the most dangerous, if not the only dangerous, was the western direction. Charles XII and Napoleon marched from the west, Polish gentry in 1603 – 1618 and in 1920, and in 1941, Hitler.

Entering the throne in 1825, Nicholas I decided to cover the western border of the empire, building a number of new fortresses there, which, in combination with the old ones, would form three lines of defense.

Recall that even Napoleon said: “Is it possible to wage war without the assistance of fortresses? Positively no! ”

In the end, the efforts of the three emperors, Nicholas I, Alexander II and Alexander III, created three lines of the most powerful forts at that time. And although our fortresses were built and armed under the strictest secrecy, Western experts rather highly appreciated the state of the engineering defense of the Russian border. Based on the data of the German officers of the General Staff, Friedrich Engels wrote: “The Russians, especially after 1831, did what their predecessors missed. Modlin (Novogeorgievsk), Warsaw, Ivangorod, Brest-Litovsk form a whole system of fortresses, which, by a combination of its strategic capabilities, is the only one in the world. ”

According to the author, here you can believe the classics: firstly, he was well versed in military affairs, and secondly, he fiercely hated Tsarist Russia, and it is difficult to accuse him of embellishment.

Three lines of fortresses allowed Russia to wage both defensive and offensive war. By August, 1914, the number of Russian army was 1 million 423 thousand people, and after mobilization - 5 million 338 thousand people. Taking into account the state of the iron and horse-drawn roads, the bureaucratic apparatus, etc. the time of mobilization of the Russian army was several times greater than the time of mobilization in the armies of Germany and France. Therefore, covering the western borders with the fortresses was extremely important for the Russian Empire.

In 1865 – 1881, there was a revolution in artillery. The smooth-bore guns were replaced with rifled guns of the 1867 model of the year, firing lead shells with shells, and then tools of the 1877 model of the year with a modern type canal that fired shells with copper bands appeared. That is, the guns and shells of the 1877 model of the year are interchangeable with the guns and shells in service in the 2017 year.

The first in the world guns of the 1867 model of the year and the 1877 model of the year were adopted by the Russian and Prussian gunners. We can safely say that Krupp was created by Russian money and the ideas of Russian officers from the Artillery Committee. Krupp engineers provided high technology manufacturing tools, and Krupp factories have become a pilot production for the Russian artillery. Further, the production of 87 – 280 mm caliber artillery systems was introduced at the Obukhov and Perm factories (Marine and Mining departments, that is, state-owned). Thus, by 1894, the Russian army acquired the best (along with Germany) field, fortress and siege (heavy land) artillery in the world.

In the second half of the nineteenth century 80, a new revolution began in artillery and fortification. The transition to smokeless powder allowed to increase the initial speed and firing range of the guns. The creation of powerful new explosives — melinite, liddite, and trotyl — made it possible to significantly increase the high-explosive effect of projectiles. Prior to this, projectiles filled with gunpowder had a weak high-explosive effect, and an increase in caliber had little effect on the explosive action of the projectile. Now all restrictions on the firing range with the introduction of smokeless powder were removed, and already in the middle of the 1890-s guns were able to shoot at a distance of 25 km, and by 1918 year - at 120 km.

In turn, an increase in the caliber of howitzers and mortars led to a fantastic increase in the high-explosive effect. As a result, by the 1914 year, the Germans and Austro-Hungarians had mortars of the caliber 420 mm, and the French in 1915 year created the 520 mm mm mortars. By the way, these French “toys” in 1942 – 1943 were shot at Leningrad.

Finally, in the 1890-ies appeared guns with rollback along the axis of the channel, and not together with the gun carriage, as it was before.

The second revolution in artillery led to a revolution in fortification — concrete structures with multimeter walls and rooftops, as well as armored artillery and machine-gun turrets, appeared in land fortresses.

STRANGE RUSSIAN WAY

At the same time, in Russia, from about 1894, things inexplicable from the point of view of common sense things began to happen. Instead of the best Krupp guns in the world, the Russian army began to focus on the French firm Schneider. That is the manufacturer shamefully bat in 1870 year of the country.

As mentioned above, the revolution in artillery and Russia's access to the 1-th place in the world in terms of its material part was provided by our state-owned factories and arsenals. After the cessation of the production of copper tools at the end of 1880, the arsenals focused on the production of gun carriages, shells, etc. In the 1890-ies for the first time a private Putilov factory received artillery orders. The Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich, who monopolized the leadership of the artillery, together with his metress Matilda Kshesinskaya, entered into an agreement with the leadership of the Schneider company and the leadership of the Putilov factory dependent on him. As a result, only samples of Schneider’s company are accepted into service Moreover, Schneider demanded that all new tools be produced at the Putilov factory and nowhere else.

But the Petersburg Gunnery Plant of the Military Department in 1905 – 1914 eked out a miserable existence. Well, the largest supplier of artillery for ground forces Perm (Motovilihinsky) plant from 1905 to 1914 year did not receive orders for artillery systems. The plant was fed with orders for rough blanks, shells, even began to build river steamers. As a result, the plant, which brought 1905 – 10% profit from the end of the 19th century to 12, in 1906 – 1914 brought losses in 5 million rubles.

And the thing is that the Grand Duke Sergei and his French puppeteers tried to bankrupt the state-owned factory so that he would be sold to Schneider for a pittance. It would have happened, but Sergei was let down by his brother Mikhail, who lived in England and was friends with Albert Vickers. They hunted and fished together and were in high degrees at once in two Masonic lodges. It is not known how the battle of two cannon kings, Vickers and Schneider, would end, but the war began, and the Perm factory remained state-owned. However, Vickers did not turn out to be a blessing. In November 1912, he obtained permission to build a huge artillery factory in Tsaritsyn. At the same time, the Minister of War Vladimir Aleksandrovich Sukhomlinov received a present from the company - 50 thousand rubles.

How many millions of gold rubles the Russian government has invested in this project has not yet been calculated. But the game was worth the candle. Under the contract, Vickers promised to hand over 1-, 1915- and 356-mm guns with 203 September. In the summer of 130, gendarmes came to the factory. They were shaken by the unfinished walls of the workshops, there were no machines at all, the entire management of the Tsaritsyn plant lived in Petrograd ...

I note that since 1925, the Stalingrad plant, called the “Barricades”, was completed by the whole country. Nevertheless, the first guns were handed over in the middle of the 1930-s.

Under pressure from the French, our generals engaged exclusively in field artillery. As a result, by August 1 1914 of the year in Russia was not made a single serial heavy weapons for siege or fortress artillery. In this regard, the Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich in 1910, the king achieved the abolition of siege artillery as such. I note that the siege was then called artillery of great power. However, most of the old siege artillery systems of the 1867 model of the year and 1877 of the year went for scrap, and the rest were sent to the fortress warehouses. The Grand Duke promised the king to revive the siege artillery by the year 1921, and to rearm the serf with new tools by the ... 1930 year!

In February, 1909 of the year, according to a report by the then Chief of the Main Directorate General Staff, V.A. Sukhomlinov, held the highest commandment on the abolition of several fortresses, including the fortress Novogeorgievsk, considered to be first-class, Batum, Ochakov and Ust-Dvinsk; about the speedy reduction of “proper form” of Brest-Litovsk, Kronstadt, Vyborg, Vladivostok, etc., since, according to Sukhomlinov, “keeping the fortresses in that state” in which they were then, would be a betrayal.

A year later, in May 1910, the new Chief of the General Staff, General Yevgeny Alexandrovich Gerngross, asked for another order about the fortresses, according to which the fortresses of Novogeorgievsk, Batum, Ust-Dvinsk and Ochakov were not only abolished, but had to be rearranged to meet modern requirements.

In addition, at different times, the king, without further ado, podmahival mutually exclusive "highest orders". Here, for example, January 1 1910, Nikolai podmahivaивает The highest command about the abolition of the fortress Ivangorod. November 26 The 1913 of the year in Yalta was a parade. The tsar a little bit “in the tent” in the morning with officers, and then went to breakfast, making it difficult for vodka with port wine. Then he accepted the Minister of War Sukhomlinov and pushed the "Highest approval for the preservation and partial reorganization of the fortress Ivangorod."

It is curious that a number of forts and fortresses of the Warsaw Military District (VO) were not blown up due to the lack of funds for explosives and the dismantling of ruins.

PROBLEMS WITH SHELLS

However, strange things were happening not only in the artillery of the fortress. Even in the old guns, they could not make new steel projectiles equipped with TNT or melinite in Russia! It would also be possible to re-equip old shells from black powder with new explosives. Alas, by the 1915, the shells with new explosives ranged from 1 to 5% of the total ammunition of the western forts. But our generals in large quantities prepared shrapnel for 152 – 203-mm guns and mortars. Interestingly, by this time there were no guns of a caliber over 203 mm in the Russian army at all.

Meanwhile, in Austria-Hungary, 1898-mm mortar M.240, 98-mm gun M.240, 16-mm mortar M.305 and M.11, 16-mm howitzer M.380, and finally The 16-mm howitzer L / 420. In Germany, the 15-mm howitzer L / 1912 is adopted for use in 305, in the 17 year - the 1909-mm howitzer L / 420, in the 16 year - 1912-mm mortar IR, etc.

Moreover, by the year 1914, a whole system of mortars had been created and put into mass production in Germany. German mortars, like classical guns, were equipped with anti-recoil systems. The combat weight of a mortar of a 17 caliber cm was 525 kg, and that of a mortar caliber 25 cm - 660 kg. In the stowed position, the mortars weighed 819 kg and 955 kg, respectively, and were easily transported by a pair of horses. A 17 caliber mortar, see a 54 kg missile at a distance of 768 meters, and a 25 mortar cm, fired a 97 kg missile at a distance of 563 meters.

In the 1904 year in Port Arthur, our officers projected several types of mortars on their own initiative. Dozens of them were used in combat conditions and showed excellent results. But 1 August 1914, the Russian army did not have a single mortar. Heavy guns were not only in Russia. Moreover, there were actually more than enough projects of super-powered guns.

It's funny that, in the absence of a better War Department, in April 1915 ordered 50 6-pound Kegorn mortars on wooden machines and 500 pieces of cast-iron spherical grenades for them. The order was executed by the Shkilin Petrograd Plant. (Baron Keghorn designed his mortar in 1674 year!)

DOORED ON FAILED OFFENSION

The French demanded that Russia not engage in fortresses and heavy artillery, while they themselves created a network of modern fortresses and adopted hundreds of large and special-powered guns. As a result, France had 29 fortresses in Europe, Germany had 25, and Russia had 12 obsolete. In France, one fortress fell on the 2900 km of the border, in Germany - on the 3400 km, in Russia - on the 4500 km. Even the new forts of Grodno and Vyborg built 1913 – 1916 were at the level of the fortresses of the XVIII century. Yes, there were barracks, cellars and other concrete structures, which were spent millions. However, in the absence of armor towers and protected casemates, our generals generally removed artillery from the forts and decided to place it somewhere far in the rear.

As a result, the only firepower of the Russian forts to 1917 year created a chain of soldiers with three-line rifles for the concrete parapet. From above, the soldiers were opened to the action of mounted artillery fire, aircraft attacks, etc.

Meanwhile, immediately after the Russian-Japanese war, our engineers and officers proposed connecting the western fortresses with a system of fortified areas. But all their projects went under the shelf.

But the Germans built numerous fortifications. So, in September 1915, the Germans went to the line Naroch - Smorgon - Baranavichy - Pinsk and in a short time created a fortified area there with more than a thousand concrete cannon and machine gun dots. I myself saw a line of such pillboxes on the Pina River. Outwardly, they differ little from the Soviet dots of the 1939 – 1940 Molotov line. There I had a seditious thought to take by the scruff of historians, who were talking about the 1917 coming of the year, to drag them to the pillboxes, and let them explain how to destroy them. Unless having pulled up coastal 120 – 152-mm stationary tools. And then, to compare these same guys, send a stroll through the forts of Grodno and Vyborg, since they are well preserved.

How was it possible to attack the Germans in the spring of 1917? In 1917–1918, on the Western Front, the Allies concentrated several hundred heavy guns on breakthrough sections of several kilometers. And after a long artillery bombardment, hundreds went on the attack tanks. And even then the losses of the allies were huge. I calculated that with the real losses of the Allies in 1918, when moving 1 km deep into the German defense upon reaching the Rhine, they would lose all their troops, including the recently arrived Americans.

Had all the Russian heavy artillery (TAON) been collected and focused on the 1 km of front, its salvo was still much less than on the Western Front’s 1 km breakthrough in 1917 – 1918. I note that TAON was created in 1915 – 1916. For this purpose, stationary or semi-stationary ship and coastal guns were assembled to the heap and 72 guns acquired abroad were added to them.

By the 1914, in the land fortresses of France, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Belgium there were hundreds of armor-mounted artillery installations, and in Russia there was one (!) In the Osovets fortress, bought in France "for experiments". By 1918, the French army had more than 400 heavy implements on railway installations. And in Russia there were two (!), And even then an unsuccessful design.

Nevertheless, our historians still tell tales about the Ilya Muromets bombers, Fedorov rifles, the Lebedenko wheeled tank, etc. Like, all this would have gone on the offensive in the spring of 1917 of the year.

Tank Lebedenko was built in one copy. In the absence of their own powerful engines, two Zeppelin were brought down from it. The tank was stuck in trials near Dmitrov. It was not possible to pull it out, and the tank was dismantled after 1924. No more tanks were produced in Russia until the first series of Russian Renault tanks was built in 1920 – 1921 in Nizhny Novgorod.

In Russia, neither manual nor aviation, no heavy machine guns. Only one plant in Tula made machine guns, and only one type - "Maxim". Most of the machine guns at the front were manufactured abroad.

By 1917, the Germans had an 1604 aircraft, and the Russians had an 360. And all the cars were with low-power engines. The best Russian fighter C-16 (Sikorsky) had a flight weight of 676 kg, a Gnome engine with a power of 80 hp, a maximum speed of 120 km / h, and armament — one machine gun. The German Junkers fighter J-2, created in 1916, had a flight weight of 1160 kg, a maximum speed of 205 km / h, and a weapon - one machine gun. The following year, the 1917 was created J-3, which developed the speed 240 km / h. The C-16 gained 3 km in 40 minutes, and the Fokker D-8 fighter in 4 km in 11 minutes.

The vaunted Ilya Muromets bomber of the last issue (1916 of the year) had a take-off weight of 5500 kg, a bomb load of up to 500 kg. Four “Bedmore” motors with 160 horsepower each allowed him to reach a maximum speed of 130 km / h. At the same time, the overwhelming majority of machines had 100 – 120 HP engines. Flight range was 540 km. The German Linke-Hofmann R1 bomber had a take-off weight of 12 300 kg, a bomb load of 8 tons, four Daimler motors for 260 hp. and developed a maximum speed of 132 km / h.

So, it is not difficult to guess how the spring offensive of 1917 would have ended, even if Nicholas II had remained on the throne.

But the main thing - the Russian people did not want to fight. Yes, a certain part of the population of St. Petersburg and Moscow in the fall of 1914, succumbed to chauvinistic frenzy and believed the promises of the generals that our army would go to Berlin in a couple of months. But the frenzy quickly passed. The war of maneuver has turned into a positional war, with all the ensuing consequences.

The Russian people, not to mention the Little Russians or the Kazakhs, basically did not want to fight either for Alsace and Lorraine, or for the Straits, or for the brother-Slavs, or for the Polish gentry. But for the "top" of the war was the "mother of the native." The king and the ministers believed that they could only sit in their places with the help of war. Recall that in the spring and summer of 1914, a wave of strikes swept across the country and even the official press assessed the situation as pre-revolutionary.

In turn, the Duma members of the liberal bourgeoisie and the masons realized that only war would give them a real opportunity to come to power. I note that their calculation was fully justified. Through the creation of the Zemsky and other unions, they managed to form an administration for the future Provisional Government, both in the capitals and in the provinces. And, the funny thing is to do it at the expense of the government, that is, due to short deliveries weapons front and food rear.

By 1917, there were numerous interruptions in rail transport. Military cargo and food in thousands of tons were stuck in ports and railway junctions. The peasants hid the bread, the industrialists hid coal and oil. Russia did not go to victory, but to catastrophe.
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  1. polpot
    polpot 28 January 2018 15: 28
    +5
    Russia has two allies, the army and navy, the old formula deduced by Alexander III (now the VKS), not one ally is worth a drop of Russian blood, the allies have always been too expensive for us, the Northern War, the Napoleonic Wars, 1914, for the good it should only be that for the good of the motherland and allies you can always send volunteers and patrons and no more.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 28 January 2018 17: 37
      +3
      But Alexander the Third concluded an alliance with France; probably he was not as primitive as you think
  2. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 15: 38
    +3
    Speaking of Vyborg. Infantry position of Fort Letter "B".
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 28 January 2018 15: 44
    +8
    But for the "top" the war was "mother dear"
    .
    ... That's for sure ... Scha, the stones will fly into the author ...
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 28 January 2018 17: 35
      0
      As a result of the war, either these tops were left without goals or without pants.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 28 January 2018 21: 32
      +6
      over the past 2 years, these data have been published many times (always from Ш) - it is useful. A vivid example of competent propaganda and an explanation of "who we are and where we are going," without question marks.
      CHAPTER CONCLUSION - NOT ONLY THE READY OF THE ARMY AND NAVY (TWO ALLIES), AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY SHOULD BE FOR THE BEGINNING AND VICTORY IN THE WAR
      1. Alf
        Alf 29 January 2018 21: 55
        0
        Quote: antivirus
        CHAPTER CONCLUSION - NOT ONLY THE READY OF THE ARMY AND NAVY (TWO ALLIES), AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY SHOULD BE FOR THE BEGINNING AND VICTORY IN THE WAR

        Recalls the state of modern Russia, the army can, but the state does not.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 29 January 2018 22: 01
          0
          and there is no single organism of the state
          the differences between regions and peoples are great and we have not yet created (melted, melted) a nation.
          the process is just going.
          and some are ready for one thing, other nations for other actions
          this is normal, but there should be a consensus on such a question as “war” (for example, the majority constitution is 66%) - THIS IS NOT A POLL, AND 66% IN THE SOUL
          maybe, the fruits of Victory should be used by the very same thing - PEOPLE-NATION. Otherwise, into the empty victims
          1. Alf
            Alf 29 January 2018 22: 09
            +3
            This is you, sorry about what? If the war starts now, even without nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, it will be necessary to sharply increase the production of weapons. Can Russia do this in the current state of industry and, most importantly, the mood of society? I personally am not very sure about the first, and especially the second point.
            The maximum that Russia can do is not to beat herself, to draw. We are not talking about victory.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Opera
    Opera 28 January 2018 16: 10
    14
    What an amazing primitivism! How embarrassing it is to read such a creation, especially in our time, when, thank God, a wide range of readers have access to a lot of sources of that time! This is intended for people who have exhausted their knowledge and interest in history with Soviet textbooks in which the Russian Empire is referred to only as dark and backward! But nevertheless, to enslave the prison of the peoples, which somehow have been honored by these peoples, probably even darker and more dense! That's how at the end of his work the author did not tell about the only ray of light in this dark realm of Ilyich’s bulb is a riddle?!?! Probably forgot!
    Dear friends, I will give here only the words of Churchill uttered by him about the role of Russia in the 1 world war. It’s hard to suspect this gentleman of sympathy for Russia and the Russians, however, he also didn’t have the audacity to write such lascivious about Russia! And so- "Fate was not so cruel to any country as it was to Russia. Her ship went down when the harbor was already close. She already survived the storm when everything fell upon her. Despair and treason seized power when the task was already All the sacrifices were made, all the work was completed, the long retreats ended; the shell hunger was defeated; the armament went in a wide stream; the stronger, more numerous, much better supplied army held a huge front, the rear assembly points were crowded with people ... In addition, no features the difficult action no longer had to take ... to keep weakening the enemy forces ... and that's all that stood between Russia and the fruits of the common victory! "
    Ludendorff, the author of the concept of total war, said that the Russian Empire by the 1917 year had a much larger and better equipped army than the one with which it started the war!
    Similar authors talking about the disaster on the threshold of which Russia supposedly stood in 1917 want to ask a question - where exactly was the enemy by then ?! Really again near Moscow ?! And after what time did this strongest opponent, according to the author, surrender himself after signing the infamous Brest peace ?! Let me remind you of the conditions of this world - the exclusion of provinces in which Belarusians prevailed among local residents, recognition of Ukraine’s independence, the departure of the Baltic states, separation of the Batumi and Kara regions, peace with the UPR, the demobilization of the fleet and the army, the departure of the Baltic Fleet from Finland and the Baltic bases, payments in 500 million .gold rubles and 6 billion marks, transfer of ships of the Black Sea Fleet! Not weak ?! This world was concluded on March 3 1918 of the year! And now attention - November 11 1918 year was concluded Compiegne truce i.e. the surrender of Germany before, which the Bolsheviks capitulated in March of that year !!! Well, this is a disgrace, because somehow it was necessary to justify ?! Do not tell the people the right word on whose money and with whose support the revolution was made ?! These authors are engaged in this.
    1. Blue cop
      Blue cop 28 January 2018 16: 33
      22
      I fully support you good
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 28 January 2018 18: 23
      +6
      Quote: Oper
      Similar authors talking about the disaster on the threshold of which Russia allegedly stood in 1917 would like to ask a question - where exactly was the enemy by then ?!

      When they say that a lot of lies have been written about the USSR, this is true.
      But it is also true that Soviet historians likewise lied about RI.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 20: 02
        +6
        And where did they lie?
        Indeed, “failures” in the nomenclature of production did not take shape after the Revolution, but were before it.
        In the Empire, for example, it was very tight with engine building. From the word at all.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 28 January 2018 22: 29
          +2
          Quote: Nukesmoke
          And where did they lie?

          The fact that there were problems does not yet say that they were not solved, without heroic jerks, but also without corresponding excesses, the same engines began to be produced by the end of the war. In general, as Stolypin said, it took 20 years.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 28 January 2018 23: 32
            +3
            Quote: Dart2027
            In general, as Stolypin said, it took 20 years.

            A spherical RI, in a vacuum - it would be, in general, an ideal option! But, as the cowboys used to say, in films about the Wild West: "Either you're fast, or you're dead!". laughing
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 29 January 2018 19: 47
              0
              Quote: HanTengri
              But, as the cowboys used to say, in films about the Wild West: "Either you're fast, or you're dead!"

              Apparently the USSR was not fast enough?
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 29 January 2018 19: 53
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                Apparently the USSR was not fast enough?

                What period?
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 29 January 2018 23: 07
                  0
                  In the present.
          2. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 36
            +4
            I do not deny the insight of Stolypin. But to decide during the war years what they could not do in the previous ten years is impossible.
            On motors - they somehow arranged a screwdriver assembly and semi-handicraft production in homeopathic doses.

            Conclusion - maybe this war was not needed, with life wasted, resources and colossal upheavals that followed, which took even more lives, but for reasons that were quite obvious inevitable?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 January 2018 07: 36
              +2
              Quote: Nukesmoke
              On motors - they somehow arranged a screwdriver assembly and semi-handicraft production in homeopathic doses.

              You would know that the world's first diesel submarineRussian-with Russian diesel. The first diesel engine for ships is Russian, the world's first diesel = electric ship-Russian, 70% of the world's ships are Russian, the largest river fleet in the world (mainly Russian-made) is Russian.
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 12: 59
                0
                Are you talking about diesel? Do not make me laugh. It was about gasoline engines, and about the top of R&D - aviation.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  Are you talking about diesel? Do not make me laugh. It was about gasoline engines, and about the top of R&D - aviation.

                  Laugh! lol
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 12: 58
                    0
                    If I find, I had a small note about the “Barca” and diesel from the Nobels. I'll post it.
                    In general - not everything is so smooth, but given that the Nobels covered oil speculation with their plant ...
            2. Dart2027
              Dart2027 29 January 2018 19: 46
              0
              Quote: Nukesmoke
              But to decide during the war years what they could not do in the previous ten years is impossible.

              So he said that it is necessary to develop without war.
              Well, what is possible or impossible is a moot point. If you wish, you can find examples of both pros and cons, but the fact that the military-industrial complex of the Republic of Ingushetia made great progress during the war was indeed true.
              Quote: Nukesmoke
              Conclusion - maybe this war was not needed, with life wasted, resources and colossal upheavals that followed, which took even more lives, but for reasons that were quite obvious inevitable?

              Nicholas II was not at all eager to fight, but was there a choice? The war was inevitable because everyone else wanted it. I doubt that RI would be able to sit aside.
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 12: 59
                0
                Yes. But not in a couple of years to grow the same engineers and competent workers. And even those who can become them in practice. The failure in education did not give the necessary “shot”, and the army tried to take the best for itself - a lot of equipment, people who need knowledge.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 30 January 2018 19: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  Yes. But not to grow the same engineers and competent workers in a couple of years

                  In fact, by 1917 in RI there was quite a decent amount of universities, so the stories about backward RI were greatly exaggerated.
                  Where do you think the Bolsheviks took personnel for industrialization - from Mars?
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 20
                    0
                    Do you even read what I write? It is primarily about workers. Illiterate can not be taken and put at the machine. “Blue-collar workers” - there was just a shortage of them.
                    Regarding universities - yes, there were a lot of them, but more than half graduated from humanities.
                    In the USSR, at first they radically solved the problem of illiteracy, then, using old ITR personnel, they opened a bunch of technical schools (where adults also went) and in schools they taught "labor" lessons.
                    Something like this. After all, the problem of the Empire was not a drawdown in science, but a drawdown in mass education.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 31 January 2018 19: 54
                      +1
                      Quote: Nukesmoke
                      It is primarily about workers. Illiterate can not be taken and put at the machine.
                      Training a worker does not require a decade - two to three years is enough, and the costs are not lower than that.
                      Quote: Nukesmoke
                      Regarding universities - yes, there were a lot of them, but more than half graduated from humanities.
                      Humanities graduates in all countries. And if everything was so bad, then where did the same engineering personnel come from?
                      Quote: Nukesmoke
                      In the USSR, at first they radically solved the problem of illiteracy
                      In fact, if not for two revolutions and GV, then the problem would have been solved even earlier.
        2. captain
          captain 29 January 2018 09: 41
          +4
          Quote: Nukesmoke
          And where did they lie?
          Indeed, “failures” in the nomenclature of production did not take shape after the Revolution, but were before it.
          In the Empire, for example, it was very tight with engine building. From the word at all.

          Enlighten the dense; In what year did the Germans reach Stalingrad? What year were near Moscow? I am surprised by the desire of some red-flagged and especially liberals to prove that Russia was worthless and backward before 1917. I will give a few examples; The Trans-Siberian Railway was built in 12 years without a Komsomol, convicts and the army, Russian peasants on carts (BAM for almost 40, with MAZs, KAMAZs, excavators, etc.), they try not to write about the road to Murmansk, because it was built in 2 of the year 1-Worldwide, again men on carts. And many examples can be given of how some rabid communists and liberals are trying to cheat my people. Now at least in VO people have started appearing who, in their comments, are convicted of the lies of these "enlighteners".
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 January 2018 09: 56
            +3
            Quote: captain
            prove that Russia until 1917 was worthless and backward

            We had a GREAT country. With all the shortcomings, the main thing was that the RUSSIAN PEOPLE even grew faster than chinese, and, as the magazine wrote "Science and life" in 1900 (yes, this is a Russian, not a Soviet magazine) - was supposed to overtake the Chinese in numbers.
            Russians actively populated the Caucasus, Central Asia, Siberia, and Primorye.
            And since 1964 they have already died out ....
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 12
              0
              The magazine wrote - 100% true. Already not funny.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 43
                0
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                The magazine wrote - 100% truth is no longer funny.

                Not just a magazine. Read the Mendeleev. And laugh! yes
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 02
                  0
                  Mendeleev wrote a lot of things. In particular, about the fact that health care is very poor, and this fetters people's development.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 31 January 2018 08: 59
                    0
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    Mendeleev wrote a lot of things

                    Well, where is he up to you! yes
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 21
                      0
                      Mendeleev wrote a lot of negative things about the Empire. I read it. Acute and correct criticism. I wish you to read it in full and bomb it from him.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 31 January 2018 14: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Nukesmoke
                        Mendeleev wrote a lot of negative things about the Empire. I read it. Acute and correct criticism.

                        We talked about DEMOGRAPHY, Mendeleev wrote "To the knowledge of Russia", where his forecasts are very different from the Russian Cross built by the Bolsheviks.
            2. Alf
              Alf 29 January 2018 21: 58
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              was supposed to overtake the Chinese in numbers.

              And for satiety?
          2. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 11
            +1
            You recall that for the Germans the Eastern Front was secondary? And not straining themselves much, they not only repulsed our convulsive attacks in 1914, but also inflicted a strategic defeat on the RIA in 1915, yielding to it in numbers (together with the Austrians they were 1,2 million against ours 4,5 - 5). If the Germans had mechanized units, the Empire would ask for peace.

            But do not tell me why they built a road to Murmansk? Let me remind you - to get rifles and sapper blades from the allies.
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 17: 30
              +3
              Do not be shy, write directly - there were only one hundred thousand, and ours - one hundred million. not even so - one German soldier came out and the Russian army ran in full force ... Aren't you funny writing this yourself? Is funny But it should be a shame.
              Your letters are very reminiscent of what they write about the Second World War - how one and a half million Germans defeated the X millionth Red Army in 7.
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 04
                0
                It’s nice to juggle, but the fact remains. Even in 1916, ours, with parity in armament, could not defeat the Germans. The result - the failure of the 1916 campaign and the collapse of the army and country.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 30 January 2018 19: 18
                  +1
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  Even in 1916, ours, with parity in armament, could not defeat the Germans.

                  Given the fact that they were advancing before they could fully prepare, saving the French and Italians, it would be strange if the result was different. That's just even at the same time managed to inflict a serious defeat on AB and Turkey.
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 22
                    0
                    They saved the Serbs, French, British, Italians. Only there was no time for myself.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 31 January 2018 19: 57
                      +1
                      This is politics, although on the other hand, the Germans had won in the West and would have hit East with all their might. But this does not apply to the combat effectiveness of the army of the Republic of Ingushetia - they fought normally.
          3. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 01
            0
            We got to Stalingrad, no doubt. And then they returned to Berlin. That’s the whole difference.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 31 January 2018 09: 03
              +1
              Quote: Nukesmoke
              We got to Stalingrad, no doubt. And then they returned to Berlin. That's all difference.

              Not all: our losses in WOB-10% of World War II53% of the world (all without China)
              Victory was there and there.
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 24
                0
                That's right - the Germans considered the Eastern Front secondary. Which is logical - the RIA was not a serious fighting force at that time (the reforms that brought the army to the world level were calculated until the 1920s). The Germans slightly strained leveled the front line (ours lost up to 1/4 of the industry in Poland), and then began to continue messing with the Anglo-Francs.
                1. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx 31 January 2018 14: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  That's right - the Germans considered the Eastern Front secondary

                  Well, why are you so .... They have already pulled up a secondary front, or you don’t know how to read or think. Here in VO there was already a series of articles devoted to this issue, where everything was perfectly shown that more than half of the troops of the Central Bloc fought against RI !!!
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 14: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    Well, why are you so .... They have already pulled up a secondary front, or you don’t know how to read or think. Here in VO there was already a series of articles devoted to this issue, where everything was perfectly shown that more than half of the troops of the Central Bloc fought against RI !!!

                    Germans and Austro-Hungarians were different countries. The main efforts in the fight against ours were undertaken by the Austrians (and our generals from the GUGS took the mobile plan of the letter "A"). The Germans on our front were limited to defense, even the 1915 offensive was more of an operational nature, although it broke the "personnel" ridge of the RIA, with the main goal of leveling the front and gaining time to strengthen our positions while our wounds are licking. The result - rams of German positions inevitably ended in wild losses without a visible result.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 31 January 2018 15: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  That's right - the Germans considered the Eastern Front secondary.

                  Up to 40% of Germans, up to 90% of Austrians, Turks are not secondary. And that the Anglo-Franks have become the main cannon fodder, the merit of Russian policy.
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  Which is logical - the RIA was not a serious fighting force at that time (the reforms that brought the army to the world level were calculated until the 1920s)

                  You do not read Oleinikov in the History section? Russia was a very serious fighting force, the main force of the Entente.
                  Quote: Nukesmoke
                  The Germans slightly strained leveled the front line (ours lost up to 1/4 of the industry in Poland), and then began to continue messing with the Anglo-Francs.

                  Managed - and again went to the West - already to the inevitable end.
    3. Proxima
      Proxima 28 January 2018 19: 28
      +8
      Quote: Oper
      which the Bolsheviks capitulated in March of that year !!! Well, this is a disgrace, because somehow it was necessary to justify ?!

      Can it justify somehow?
      About shell hunger: the monthly production of artillery shells in 1915 was only 35, and the needs of the front reached the size of 000 shells per day. !!!
      This is really a disgrace !!!
      "From the memoirs of Anton Denikin:" Eleven days of the terrible hum of German heavy artillery, literally tearing down whole rows of trenches along with their defenders. We almost did not answer - there is nothing. The regiments, exhausted to the last degree, fought off one attack after another - with bayonets or point-blank shooting; blood was pouring, rows were thinning, grave hills grew ... Two regiments were almost destroyed - with one fire ...
      and more: ".... it will be interesting to you to hear such an absurd fact from Russian reality: When, after a three-day silence of our only six-inch battery, fifty shells were brought to her, it was reported by telephone immediately to all regiments, all companies, and all the arrows sighed with joy and relief .. "(!?!)
      THIS IS REAL SHAME! How Russia generally reached the 17th year is incomprehensible to the mind!
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 20: 00
        0
        13000 with a minimum of 24000 ...
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 28 January 2018 22: 42
        +5
        Quote: Proxima
        the monthly production of artillery shells in 1915 was only 35

        During the war, it increased significantly - a total of 58 million shells were manufactured.
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 41
          +1
          They say bastards-sausages only 6 "for the war, more than 40 million released by opponents.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 January 2018 19: 32
            0
            Quote: Nukesmoke
            Sausage bastards say

            The Germans really were record holders. But they worked in this area in the Republic of Ingushetia, and the progress was quite serious.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 06
              0
              The work of the industry is admirable. But the fast and the furious was due to the deterioration of the machinery and the decline in product quality. And given the slurred personnel policy in the army, and the decline in the quality of ordinary personnel, even parity in armament could not help ...
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 30 January 2018 19: 22
                0
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                But the fast and the furious was due to the deterioration of the machinery and the decline in product quality.

                Not only. New factories were being built, although a serious mistake was that they did not begin to do it right away. True, at the beginning of the war no one expected that it would drag on for years.
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                and the decline in the quality of the rank and file

                But the Germans were entirely Rambo or what? In this sense, all armies experienced the same problems, so RI was no worse and no better than others. The collapse of the army began after ... orders of the VP.
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Not only. New factories were being built, although a serious mistake was that they did not begin to do it right away. True, at the beginning of the war no one expected that it would drag on for years.

                  Factories need equipment and personnel. The equipment was bought at exorbitant prices abroad, and it arrived late, personnel - it is necessary to grow at least five years, but where it is from is not clear. For the best were taken into the army.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  But the Germans were entirely Rambo or what? In this sense, all armies experienced the same problems, so RI was no worse and no better than others. The collapse of the army began after ... orders of the VP.

                  The Germans are motivated soldiers, for educated. Read Remarque or militarism singer Junger. At the first, remember how the teacher pushed the speech, and everyone signed up as volunteers? And Junger generally longed to fight only if where (not without the influence of schooling).
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 31 January 2018 20: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    you need to grow at least five years, but where to get them is not clear. For the best were taken into the army.

                    That is, there was an increase in production, but there were no personnel for this, so what? How is this possible? There were, and in large enough quantities.
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    The Germans are motivated soldiers, for educated.

                    Is patriotic motivation a synonym for education? According to personal observations, I can say that this is, to put it mildly, not so. However, you have already been told more than once about exaggeration of problems with education in the Republic of Ingushetia.
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 12: 06
                      0
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Most hard workers are average workers who can be prepared faster.

                      I'm talking about the middle peasants.
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Is patriotic motivation a synonym for education? According to personal observations, I can say that this is, to put it mildly, not so. However, I have already told you more than once about exaggeration of problems with education in the Republic of Ingushetia

                      Truth? Of course the canonical dupe about the machine gunner-communist begs it, but the fact is that patriotic motivation really helps. Of course more at the front, but also in production.
                      Education is visible. No, there would be no war, MAYBE, would solve the problem. But there was a war, and all well-wishes, forecasts and prospects went downhill.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 4 February 2018 15: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Nukesmoke
                        I'm talking about the middle peasants.

                        Truth? But in vocational schools managed in 1-2 years.
                        Quote: Nukesmoke
                        about the fact that patriotic motivation really helps

                        It helps, I do not argue. It’s just that it has nothing to do with education, it depends more on ideology or religion.
                        Quote: Nukesmoke
                        No, there would be no war, MAYBE, would solve the problem. But there was a war, and all well-wishes, forecasts and prospects went downhill.

                        Yes, the war derailed a lot, and not only in Russia.
      3. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 29 January 2018 07: 37
        +3
        Well, shell hunger was not only with us, but also among the British. Moreover, they became the reason for a considerable scandal
        Field Marshal John French, in an interview with The Times correspondent Charles Repington, noted that the failure was due to a shortage of artillery shells. The report about the “shell scandal” published by The Times in the rear was full of bright details: “We don’t have enough explosive means to level enemy trenches with the ground ... The need for an unlimited number of explosives became a fatal barrier to our success.”

        But in England, because of the shell famine of 1915, no one accuses the King of “engaging Britain in an unnecessary war.” But the British, like us, saved the French from defeat, fulfilling their allied duty. And no one in Britain accuses the Government of monstrous losses on the Somme and Verdun.
        Yes, and we had shell hunger was overcome by 1916. Without any extra effort.
        If in 1914 all Russian industry produced 516 thousand 3-dm shells, in 1915 there were already 8,825 million, according to Barsukov, and 10 million, according to Manikovsky, and in 1916, already 26,9 million shots according to according to Barsukov. The “all-inclusive military ministry reports” give even more significant numbers of Russian-made 3-dm shells to the army in 1915, 12,3 million shells, and in 1916, 29,4 million shots. Thus, the annual production of 3-dm shells in 1916 was almost tripled, and the monthly production of 3-dm shells from January 1915 to December 1916 increased 12 times!
        http://corporatelie.livejournal.com/17294.html
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 26
          +2
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          But the British, like us, saved the French from defeat, fulfilling their allied duty.

          Are you serious or joking? Do you even know that the British, until recently, did not guarantee France that they would enter the war.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And no one in Britain accuses the Government of monstrous losses on the Somme and Verdun.

          Actually they blame and even blame.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Yes, and we had shell hunger was overcome by 1916. Without any extra effort.

          By the year 16, and it was necessary by a maximum of 15.
        2. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 14
          +2
          Britain simply created an excellent army from scratch, and already in 1916 it moved large numbers of tanks against the enemy. And ours all frantically tried to increase the production of 3 "and rifles.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Opera
        Opera 30 January 2018 07: 44
        +1
        But Russia reached out to 1917 and, by the way, the huge front that was not near Moscow held steady! And she didn’t ask for shameful peace with Germany! Unlike the new government in general, operating on the money of the enemy!
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 30 January 2018 12: 34
          +1
          Quote: Oper
          But Russia reached out to 1917 and, by the way, the huge front that was not near Moscow held steady! And she didn’t ask for shameful peace with Germany!

          That's right, it just fell apart and that’s it. Here is such a breakthrough, like dill. Like the Crimea, we were not needed because it is date))
    4. skeptic31
      skeptic31 28 January 2018 19: 40
      10
      One of the few truthful articles about Russia's readiness for the First World War. Hence the nervous reaction to fans of tsarism and Russia's successes in WWI. PMV for them is a kind of entertainment, distant times, you can think up what you want. The truth is that for Germany the entire Russian front was secondary, to which they were distracted only if necessary. All of their main most combat-ready units, and most of their weapons, were concentrated in the western theater of operations. In this situation, our history buffs are essentially no different from Ukrainian Sumerians creating a new history of Ukraine. And it's not even that they come up with some kind of non-existent battles. No, the battles were real, but their significance for the WWII was somewhat different than it seems to similar historians. Moreover, their favorite pastime is a comparison of the tsarist and Red Army. But there is nothing to compare, these are two completely different wars. You can not compare dopotopshchina, fighting with residual phenomena, and the people's army, fighting with all of Europe.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 28 January 2018 22: 30
        +1
        Quote: skeptic31
        and a people’s army fighting all over Europe

        All? With the French and the British too?
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 43
          +2
          The industrial potential of France greatly helped the Germans. Like the "arsenal" of European Czechoslovakia.
          The British are themselves, apparently.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 29 January 2018 08: 06
            0
            Quote: Nukesmoke
            The industrial potential of France greatly helped the Germans.

            How to say it helped ... Tanks, for example, the Germans received from the French .... zero.
            If we compare the production of tanks in France and Germany, then we will be surprised (without surprise) to find that tank construction in France was ahead. Since in Germany in 1939 only 743 combat vehicles were produced, and in 1940, 1,479. Yes, the French in the first five months of 40 released more than a thousand armored vehicles! That is, the potentially French armored industry was not only comparable, but also ahead of the German one. At the same time, the Germans from such starting positions reached the level of about 50 thousand BBMs built during the entire war. Therefore, 15 thousand tanks is a lower estimate of what France could give. And the top one is about 40-50 thousand. But what was the real contribution of the French tank industry to the replenishment of the Panzervaffe? ZERO. The Germans did not receive anything from the French. No, of course they very carefully used trophies captured during the campaign. But they received new tanks from the French industry a little less than not at all.

            https://oldadmiral.livejournal.com/34518.html
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 19
              +1
              So, do not quote major and have died out.
              Otmeral forgot that the Germans were not going to copy the French tanks and build them. Not satisfied. The Germans simply took the equipment, resources and workers. And the French were entrusted with the production of parts and blanks. Yes, and in the engine building Gauls were noted - remember, on which engine the German auxiliary aircraft flew? Is it on French Gnome-Ron?
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 January 2018 19: 41
            +2
            Quote: Nukesmoke
            The industrial potential of France greatly helped the Germans. Like the "arsenal" of European Czechoslovakia.

            You know, it always surprised me that amateurs who claim that the USSR supposedly defeated all of Europe do not understand what they’re doing to the then leadership of the USSRиdoor service.
            1) According to the original plan, he was supposed to fight with all European countries, but this was prevented by signing a non-aggression treaty, the so-called Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. And this is one of the most outstanding achievements of diplomacy in the entire history of mankind - the USSR fought with part of Europe, and not with all at once.
            2) Yes, the Germans could use the industrial potential of the same France, but at the same time they had to keep significant military forces on its territory, which could well turn the tide in 1941, when the Wehrmacht was stopped just a stone's throw from Moscow. Plus, the DB against England, although not like they like to show in Hollywood films, but also required quite serious forces.
            That is why Stalin so hoped that Hitler would not attack the USSR for a long time - not because he was naive or stupid, but because the attack in the east before the databases were completed in the west was a suicidal adventure.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 08
              0
              Soviet diplomacy adequately emerged from the crisis into which the collapse of Versailles drove international relations.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 30 January 2018 19: 23
                0
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                into which the collapse of Versailles drove international relations

                The fact of the matter is that there was no collapse and Hitler was deliberately armed with England, France and the USA.
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  The fact of the matter is that there was no collapse and Hitler was deliberately armed with England, France and the USA.

                  What for? Reich was the heir to Europe’s most powerful industry. He himself armed himself. The Versailles crisis is not due to the fact that the United States or the Britons crap. The crisis is due to the fact that the architects decided that Germany and Russia would not recover. When this happened, the zvizdets began. For those who rose from the ashes were so brutal that it was unrealistic to calculate the foreign policy doctrine.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 31 January 2018 20: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    What for? Reich was the heir to Europe’s most powerful industry. He himself armed himself.

                    Read about the state of Germany at that time. Without outside help, she would have chosen at least another 20 years.
      2. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 42
        0
        Pretty tough, but overall I agree.
      3. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 29 January 2018 08: 03
        +2
        Quote: skeptic31
        for Germany, the entire Russian front was secondary, to which they were distracted only if necessary

        You are wrong. In 1915, the Russian front was certainly not secondary to the Germans. Only their considerable losses (the fact of the existence of which was proved by the respected Alexey Oleinikov with reference to the Reixarchive) speaks about this.
        But about the "whole Europe" you got excited. There were neither French, nor Greek, nor English, nor Norwegian, nor Swedish corps and armies on our front.
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 22
          0
          In 1915? For three months, the Germans defeated the RIA, and calmly continued to butt with the French. For the outcome of the war was decided by the defeat of France.
      4. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 08
        +1
        Quote: skeptic31
        The truth is that for Germany the entire Russian front was secondary, to which they were distracted only if necessary.

        I usually rarely write in harsh colors, but you, comrade, write nonsense that speaks of your low education. More precisely, you prefer to reason with certain cliches, rather than think and analyze with your own head. It fought on Germany alone and the Central Powers bloc, and the distribution of forces shows that at least half of the forces of this bloc fought against Russia. And if our army beat the Austrians, then this does not mean the weakness of the latter, but just shows the strength of our army. And yes, for us, Germany was also a secondary adversary. The main one was Austria-Hungary, against which all the main operations were carried out and which Germany was constantly forced to help.
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 23
          +2
          Suddenly, the Austrians became a real force. Let's face it - ours managed to beat the Austrians only because we exceeded them in strength, and the 1 / 3 of their troops was, to put it mildly, unreliable.
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 29 January 2018 15: 27
            +1
            Quote: Nukesmoke
            Suddenly, the Austrians became a real force. Let's face it - ours managed to beat the Austrians only because we exceeded them in strength, and the 1 / 3 of their troops was, to put it mildly, unreliable.

            This is already overkill) YOU NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT THINGS REALLY, the Austrians were defeated and only the German units and the advantage in artillery saved them.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 30 January 2018 13: 09
              0
              Ours in 1914 won the battle of Galicia due to superiority in power, and then on points. Goetzendorf, by the way, was probably the best strategist among the Central Powers.
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 3 February 2018 01: 10
                +1
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                Ours in 1914 won the battle of Galicia due to superiority in power, and then on points.

                Well crap then write. We won in the net and if there was enough artillery, shells and supplies they could reach Krakow or at least dig well. The superiority in power for such an operation was minimal.
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 13: 07
                  0
                  We lost on the net. The ponder, which stomped and suddenly found that 6 "was not enough to storm the fortresses, provided for the Austro-Hungarians the opportunity to regroup. The result - there was no defeat of the enemy. So the tactical victory is ours, the strategic German-Austrian bloc, since the fuss in Galicia saved the Germans from the blow to the Silesian industrial region.
                  And so the advantage of at least 150 thousand bayonets and about two hundred trunks is very significant.
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator 4 February 2018 17: 15
                    +1
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    We lost on the net. Przemysl, which stomped and suddenly turned out that 6 "was not enough to storm the fortresses, provided for the Austro-Hungarians the opportunity to regroup. The result - there was no rout of the enemy.

                    SO TAKE A PROBLEM OR NOT? Maybe they threw it with corpses?
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    The result - the defeat of the enemy was not.

                    And what was supposed to be a rout? A-vi should have surrendered in the war.
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    So the tactical victory is ours, the strategic German-Austrian bloc, as the fuss in Galicia saved the Germans from the blow to the Silesian industrial region.

                    And by what forces was the Republic of Ingushetia supposed to attack Silesia? What East Prussia is not enough?
                    Quote: Nukesmoke
                    And so the advantage of at least 150 thousand bayonets and about two hundred trunks is very significant.

                    Where did you get these fake numbers? How did you count them? How did our liberals count the number of Soviet and German tanks before the war?
          2. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 17: 39
            +1
            Quote: Nukesmoke
            Suddenly, the Austrians became a real force. Let's face it - ours managed to beat the Austrians only because we exceeded them in strength, and the 1 / 3 of their troops was, to put it mildly, unreliable.

            Suddenly, the Turkish army, which was beaten by our troops, inflicted several defeats on the British army, the very "first-class" ... and not only in the Dardanelles.
            I repeat once again - if the Russian army hits the enemy, this does not mean the enemy’s weakness.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 32
              0
              The best parts of the British were in the German direction. And the fact that ANZAC, Indians and other marines were thrown at the Dardanelles is the logical result.
              1. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 31 January 2018 14: 19
                +1
                Quote: Nukesmoke
                The best parts of the British were in the German direction. And the fact that ANZAC, Indians and other marines were thrown at the Dardanelles is the logical result.

                These are the problems of the British whom and where they threw. There is a task - it must be completed if the enemy is underestimated - these are not the problems of the enemy. Moreover, to consider ANZAC second-rate ... hmm ... a rather bold statement, do not talk about it in Canada or Australia, well, if you do not want to get acquainted with their medicine in the treatment of injuries ....
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 13: 10
                  0
                  Anzac - it is precisely in Australia and New Zealand that there was heroism, but there wasn’t enough training. That's why such losses. And about someone who will clean up - a question. Rather drink.
    5. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 19: 51
      +2
      Let's do it.
      Let's count the number of artillery trunks. Field and heavy.
      Well, machine guns, where without them.
      And there we go on the little things. Aircraft, engines, cars ...
      And for a snack - the number of literate people (in the Empire literacy was considered to be able to read).
      We shall take a sad breath and think - why war? Why were billions poured into foreign industry?
    6. shuravi
      shuravi 28 January 2018 21: 25
      +4
      Quote: Oper
      What an amazing primitivism! How embarrassing it is to read such a creation, especially in our time, when, thank God, a wide range of readers have access to a lot of sources of that time! This is intended for people who have exhausted their knowledge and interest in history with Soviet textbooks in which the Russian Empire is referred to only as dark and backward! But nevertheless, to enslave the prison of the peoples, which somehow have been honored by these peoples, probably even darker and more dense! That's how at the end of his work the author did not tell about the only ray of light in this dark realm of Ilyich’s bulb is a riddle?!?! Probably forgot!
      Dear friends, I will give here only the words of Churchill uttered by him about the role of Russia in the 1 world war. It’s hard to suspect this gentleman of sympathy for Russia and the Russians, however, he also didn’t have the audacity to write such lascivious about Russia! And so- "Fate was not so cruel to any country as it was to Russia. Her ship went down when the harbor was already close. She already survived the storm when everything fell upon her. Despair and treason seized power when the task was already All the sacrifices were made, all the work was completed, the long retreats ended; the shell hunger was defeated; the armament went in a wide stream; the stronger, more numerous, much better supplied army held a huge front, the rear assembly points were crowded with people ... In addition, no features the difficult action no longer had to take ... to keep weakening the enemy forces ... and that's all that stood between Russia and the fruits of the common victory! "
      Ludendorff, the author of the concept of total war, said that the Russian Empire by the 1917 year had a much larger and better equipped army than the one with which it started the war!
      Similar authors talking about the disaster on the threshold of which Russia supposedly stood in 1917 want to ask a question - where exactly was the enemy by then ?! Really again near Moscow ?! And after what time did this strongest opponent, according to the author, surrender himself after signing the infamous Brest peace ?! Let me remind you of the conditions of this world - the exclusion of provinces in which Belarusians prevailed among local residents, recognition of Ukraine’s independence, the departure of the Baltic states, separation of the Batumi and Kara regions, peace with the UPR, the demobilization of the fleet and the army, the departure of the Baltic Fleet from Finland and the Baltic bases, payments in 500 million .gold rubles and 6 billion marks, transfer of ships of the Black Sea Fleet! Not weak ?! This world was concluded on March 3 1918 of the year! And now attention - November 11 1918 year was concluded Compiegne truce i.e. the surrender of Germany before, which the Bolsheviks capitulated in March of that year !!! Well, this is a disgrace, because somehow it was necessary to justify ?! Do not tell the people the right word on whose money and with whose support the revolution was made ?! These authors are engaged in this.


      Continuous cheers-patriotism, and the most base, on the verge of idiocy.
      Firstly, RI fought with Germany far from alone. Moreover, not on the main front, the whole of Europe opposed the USSR in 1941.
      Secondly, what the hell new weapons went to the army of RI? Tanks? So they were not produced in RI at all. Aircraft? Against the background of other participants, the minuscule, despite the fact that aircraft engines were also not produced at all, depended entirely on imports.
      What can I say, even ball bearings were not produced. And with one trilinear you won’t get much.
      Thirdly, if everything was so good, why did the army fall apart? Agitation? Nonsense, when everything is fine, you won’t pass anyone by words. Yes, and the commanders for what?
      And the fact of the matter is that the army of the Republic of Ingushetia is just falling from the junior and middle level officers and beginning. When front-line officers, either by wounds or by official needs, found themselves in Petrograd. And they saw the difference between the curled trenches, where simple cartridges were in short supply, and between the well-fed, fattening capital, which to the highest degree could not give a shit about their problems.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 50
        +2
        You know, the biggest bestiality is the "pinching" of stars. Neither ordinary soldiers nor the ensigns were given much promotion. Which by the way is fundamentally different from the policies of the same Peter Alekseevich Romanov. What is the result. Warrant Officer (de facto the same "cannon fodder", but with one star on uniform), commands the battalion. In war, he does not see the point (even in the ranks there is no growth!). To soldiers - even more badly. The officers do not get out. This attitude, coupled with a breakdown due to defeats, broke the back of the army.
      2. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 24
        +1
        Quote: shuravi
        Firstly, RI fought with Germany far from alone. Moreover, not on the main front

        Germany also fought not alone against Russia. The entire Austrian army and at least half of the Turkish fought against Russia. But in the West, France and Britain and their colonies fought against Germany alone - and no success until the end of 1918 (when the Americans sailed)
        So against this background, Russia's actions look much better.
        Quote: shuravi
        Secondly, what the hell new weapons went to the army of RI?

        Tanks in Germany itself were practically not produced at that time. And statistics on the production of weapons and ammunition in the empire over the years of WWII shows a multiple increase in the production of everything necessary for the troops.
        Quote: shuravi
        Thirdly, if everything was so good, why did the army fall apart?

        Everyone had such problems, but on the whole I agree - the difference between the rear and the front was too big and everyone who came on vacation or a business and could have had a most detrimental effect on the mood of the army could not see it. And that was actively used by agitators)))
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 29 January 2018 10: 03
          +1
          Quote: Trapper7

          Germany also fought not alone against Russia. The entire Austrian army and at least half of the Turkish fought against Russia.


          Miser, compared with the 1941 year.


          But in the West, France and Britain and their colonies fought against Germany alone - and no success until the end of 1918 (when the Americans sailed)
          So against this background, Russia's actions look much better.


          This only confirms that the main forces of the Germans were on the western front.


          Tanks in Germany itself were practically not produced at that time.


          In other words, Germany has already begun production of tanks and was ready to increase their production. RI no.

          And statistics on the production of weapons and ammunition in the empire over the years of WWII shows a multiple increase in the production of everything necessary for the troops.


          Against the background of other participants in the war, minuscule.
          By the way, the troops needed airplanes and engines for them. How much increased aircraft engine output? bully

          Everyone had such problems, but on the whole I agree - the difference between the rear and the front was too big and everyone who came on vacation or a business and could have had a most detrimental effect on the mood of the army could not see it. And that was actively used by agitators)))


          The orders themselves in the Republic of Ingushetia were the best agitators.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 10: 36
            0
            You and I will run around the same issue for a week, and still everyone will remain in their own opinion. For an unequivocal (more or less) correct answer to the question of Russia's entry and participation in the WWII, a systematic approach devoid of cliches and prejudices is really needed - no matter where they go. There is no such work yet and is not expected in the near future. So the question remains open.
            All the best to you.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 29 January 2018 13: 27
              0
              Not at all. Analysis made by Golovin. Clear and impartial. What Golovin is bombing monarchyzd is the problem of monarchyzd.
    7. antivirus
      antivirus 28 January 2018 21: 41
      +2
      see my above about the READINESS of the whole country
      16 million army-peasants and not so much the CPSU (b), but famine -2 times in 10 years (STATISTICS !!!) - crop failures (children from hunger are guaranteed to swell), the peasant soldier was sent 17 g home to the villages.
      with a flick of the hand of the Monarch, eliminate the cause of the discontent of the peasants (give land) and defeat in 17 g
      simply . indiscriminately calibers, eliminate the causes of revolutions and riots, AND THIS IS IN CRITICAL SITUATION 17G
    8. RUSS
      RUSS 30 January 2018 21: 57
      +2
      Quote: Oper
      Dear friends, I will give here only the words of W. Churchill spoken by him about the role of Russia in the First World War.

      Add.
      “If France was not erased from the map of Europe, it was primarily due to the courage of the Russian soldiers”
      - Marshal Foch on the actions of Russian troops on all fronts of the war as a whole "
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 13: 11
        0
        If the Russian Empire was erased from the world map, first of all thanks to the "allies"?
  6. Blue cop
    Blue cop 28 January 2018 16: 31
    23
    All armies in all wars are sent to slaughter.
    Russia didn’t give a break in 14
    Just then defeated b alone and that's it.
    Previously, we weren’t fools either, now we are all strong in hindsight
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 28 January 2018 17: 14
      +4
      Quote: Blue Cop
      All armies in all wars are sent to slaughter.

      Very controversial statement.
      Quote: Blue Cop
      Russia didn’t give a break in 14
      Just then defeated b alone and that's it.

      Whether they would give it or not was another question, but the fact that it was not necessary to climb the horse forward is for sure. Due to the insignificant ultimatum of Serbia, we ourselves voluntarily entered into conflict. You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.
      Quote: Blue Cop
      Previously, we weren’t fools either, now we are all strong in hindsight

      Unfortunately, the tsarist government and Nikolasha were real fools, or rather, they were incapable of government.
      1. Blue cop
        Blue cop 28 January 2018 17: 25
        20
        You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.

        If diplomatic statements were averted from wars.
        And then they would come to us - the three of us at once.
        And the allies are not netuti - they spread it on the wall
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 17: 56
          +4
          Quote: Blue Cop
          If diplomatic statements were averted from wars.

          This has happened many times in history.

          Quote: Blue Cop
          And then they would come to us - the three of us at once.
          And the allies are not netuti - they spread it on the wall

          You do not know the story well? Germany began mobilization only after it began its RI. No one knows if Germany would have declared war on the Entente if we had not stood up for Serbia, which by the way was not going to be occupied by anyone. Only mu..daki could put everything at stake because of Serbia.
          Germany would have to look for another reason and we would always have time to join the allies.
          1. Blue cop
            Blue cop 28 January 2018 18: 06
            19
            You don't know the story well

            I know the legal fact.
            Germany declared war on Russia - August 1, 1914
            Now we can also announce mobilization (general or partial) - but this does not mean that we must rush.
            Germany did what it had planned for a long time. Who seeks will always find.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 January 2018 18: 20
              +4
              Quote: Blue Cop
              Now we can also announce mobilization (general or partial) - but this does not mean that we must rush.

              RI warned before mobilization that Germany would stand up for AB. This is a war, and the king understood this and still went for it. The idiocy of pure water.
              Quote: Blue Cop
              Germany did what it had planned for a long time. Who seeks will always find.

              Well, we did everything that Germany would have found. Unlike the USSR, the Republic of Ingushetia had an ally (at least one) and there were maneuver opportunities.
              1. Blue cop
                Blue cop 28 January 2018 18: 22
                17
                Yes, maneuver meant: staying with or without allies.
                I would have to fight anyway. There were complaints to us.
                This is good for Americans - overseas
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 28 January 2018 18: 38
                  +4
                  Quote: Blue Cop
                  Yes, maneuver meant: staying with or without allies.

                  That is, the Allies set the condition to begin mobilization and, in fact, give rise to war? Then on ... such allies are not needed, it would be better to agree with Germany, albeit on unfavorable conditions.
                  Quote: Blue Cop
                  I would have to fight anyway. There were complaints to us.

                  Whether it was necessary or not was another matter, but it was definitely not worth climbing in front of the horse. Let France and Germany decide when to start a war and because of what, but we would decide to support or stay away.
                  Quote: Blue Cop
                  This is good for Americans - overseas

                  They just have pro-American elites.
                  1. Blue cop
                    Blue cop 28 January 2018 18: 46
                    17
                    It is not the Allies who set the condition.
                    This is the instinct of self-preservation.
                    mouth France and Germany decided when to start the war and because of what, and we would decide to support or stay away.
                    Having finished with France and Britain, Germany and Austria would have taken up for us. Plus Turkey.
                    So we could only decide WHEN to enter the war. Not after the destruction of the allies.
                    So what happened should, sadly)
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 28 January 2018 19: 29
                      +3
                      Quote: Blue Cop
                      This is the instinct of self-preservation.

                      Trying not to give a reason to start a massacre, this is an instinct. RI did the opposite.
                      Quote: Blue Cop
                      Having finished with France and Britain, Germany and Austria would have taken up for us. Plus Turkey.

                      Stop, I didn’t say that we had to be on the sidelines. We had to be in the place of France, that is, stand up for an ally, and not vice versa.
                      Quote: Blue Cop
                      So we could only decide WHEN to enter the war. Not after the destruction of the allies.

                      Naturally. There was a choice to wait for the Germans to take the first step or to make it themselves. Any normal politician would wait for the first step of the enemy.
                      Quote: Blue Cop
                      So what happened should, sadly)

                      Well this is stupid from all points of view. Putin could not have taken Crimea, and there was now a NATO base there, and you would say, “So what happened should be, sadly)”
                      1. Blue cop
                        Blue cop 28 January 2018 21: 08
                        19
                        Germany declared war on Russia.
                        Everything else is lyrics. Mobilization does not mean war.
                        So the first step. not we did. Well, the fact that in conjunction with the Allies is the instinct of self-preservation, so as not to be left alone with the entire Fourth Alliance.
              2. Alf
                Alf 28 January 2018 21: 00
                0
                Quotation: blooded man
                RI had an ally

                Who is this ?
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 28 January 2018 23: 02
                  +2
                  Quote: Alf
                  Who is this ?

                  France is 100%. England is in doubt, but in fact she had nowhere to go.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 29 January 2018 21: 52
                    0
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    France is 100%.

                    Isn't that the ally who in 1904 said that what was happening in the Far East did not belong to the France-Russia alliance?
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 30 January 2018 12: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Alf
                      Isn't that the ally who in 1904 said that what was happening in the Far East did not belong to the France-Russia alliance?

                      It is he.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 January 2018 07: 50
            +3
            Quotation: blooded man
            You do not know the story well? Germany began mobilization only after it began its RI. No one knows Germany would have declared war on the Entente if we had not stood up for Serbia

            You don’t know her at all: wars do not begin on occasion, but according to ADVANCED PLANS. The PMV went according to the plan of SHLIFFEN adopted long before August. Read it.
            Today, after all, EVERYTHING is known — read the Germans — they have long recognized that they would attack Russia
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 30
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              You don’t know her at all: wars do not begin on occasion, but according to ADVANCED PLANS. The PMV went according to the plan of SHLIFFEN adopted long before August. Read it.

              You mixed everything up. Schlieffen's plan is a military operation.
              There is not a single document wherever the German emperor set a date for the start of the war before RI mobilized. If you do not understand what it is about, then as an example the BARBAROSA plan.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Today, after all, EVERYTHING is known — read the Germans — they have long recognized that they would attack Russia

              Truth? Only in reality they attacked France, but you probably don’t know.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 January 2018 10: 13
                +2
                Quotation: blooded man
                You mixed everything up. Schlieffen's plan is a military operation.

                Schlieffen Plan - strategic plan military command of the German Empire. According to him there was a war.
                Quotation: blooded man
                There is not a single document wherever the German emperor set a date for the start of the war before RI mobilized.

                Kaiser Wilhelm II put it this way:
                We will have lunch in Paris, and dinner in St. Petersburg.
                Quotation: blooded man
                . If you do not understand what it is about, then as an example the BARBAROSA plan.

                If you do not understand, then Germany was eager for war, for which she had the Schliffen Plan, and a specific day is not important. Or would there be no war? lol
                Quotation: blooded man
                Truth? Only in reality they attacked France, but you probably don’t know

                Truth? Only in realityand he attacked the Russian city of Kalish BEFORE than declared war France.
                But this does not fit into your picture of the world. Truth?
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 29 January 2018 12: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Schlieffen Plan is a strategic plan for the military command of the German Empire. According to him, there was a war.

                  Do you even understand what an army is? Any general staff has a war plan. He was with the Germans, was with the French and was Russian. All sides had been preparing for the war for many years, and no one really hid it. I don’t understand how to not know such elementary things.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Kaiser Wilhelm II put it this way:

                  So what follows from this?
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  If you do not understand, then Germany was eager for war, for which she had the Schliffen Plan, and a specific day is not important. Or would there be no war?

                  Russia also had a plan and began to implement it in 1914, which means it was also eager for war. laughing
                  What does it mean is not important? If you decide to start a war, then there must be a specific day and the beginning of the operation. The Germans did not have anything like this and they were looking for an occasion which the king brought to them on a silver platter.
                  Of course there was a war, but it was declared after RI stood up for Serbia.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Truth? Only in reality did he attack the Russian city of Kalisz BEFORE declaring war on France.

                  Who attacked? Your dad?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 54
                    +2
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Do you even understand what an army is? Any general staff has a war plan. He was with the Germans, was with the French and was Russian. All sides had been preparing for the war for many years, and no one really hid it. I don’t understand how to not know such elementary things.

                    It will reach you that the war is on the PLAN. Especially the aggressor, because he has the initiative. Schlieffen's plan-read it.
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    So what follows from this?

                    Attack on Russia. Moltke, May 1914:
                    We must begin military operations, in two years Russia will be stronger than us.
                    Kaiser Wilhelms Notate; Muss - bald - aufräumen
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Russia also had a plan and began to implement it in 1914, which means it was also eager for war.

                    Aggression plan? fool
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    What does it mean is not important? If you decide to start a war, then there must be a specific day and the beginning of the operation. The Germans did not have anything like this and they were looking for an occasion which the king brought to them on a silver platter.

                    The Bredyatins-Germans SAMI organized precedents for 1939, SAMI used the ultimatum of Austria to Serbia in 1914. If Austria had not been supported, there would have been nothing. But war was needed.
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Of course there was a war, but it was declared after RI stood up for Serbia.

                    The Germans announced it on August 1. Despite the proposal to bring the matter to The Hague.
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Who attacked? Your dad?

                    Rudeness instead of knowledge? Clear. lol
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 29 January 2018 17: 18
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      It will reach you that the war is on the PLAN. Especially the aggressor, because he has the initiative. Schlieffen's plan-read it.

                      Are you pretending or don't really understand basic things? All wars go according to plan and in no other way. RI attacked in Prussia according to plan, France, too, was preparing to fight according to plan. Today, Russia also has a plan in case of war with NATO and vice versa. You at least talk to the military or something and do not write more stupidity.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Attack on Russia. Moltke, May 1914:
                      We must begin military operations, in two years Russia will be stronger than us.
                      Kaiser Wilhelms Notate; Muss - bald - aufräumen

                      Meltke a soldier, he does not make political decisions. Once again, there is not ONE document where the timing of the start of the war was discussed in advance. Moreover, in the Wehrmacht there were opponents of the war on two fronts.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Aggression plan?

                      Plan of war, my dear. Every army in the world has plans for an offensive and defense against a potential enemy. Maybe you think that a plan can be prepared in a few days. wassat fool
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The Bredyatins-Germans SAMI organized precedents for 1939, SAMI used the ultimatum of Austria to Serbia in 1914. If Austria had not been supported, there would have been nothing. But war was needed.

                      You write nonsense. Hitler had a plan of attack on Poland and the timing when it will be implemented. Poland was faced with a choice - the occupation of part of Poland or the war.
                      The war was declared after the mobilization of the Russian army. There would be no mobilization, Germany would not have supported AB.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The Germans announced it on August 1. Despite the proposal to bring the matter to The Hague.

                      What does the Hague have to do with it. if there were an ultimatum of 32 points?
                      The war was declared in response to mobilization, which was immediately warned.
                      The king had a choice - mobilization and war or not to mobilize and at least in the year 14 to avoid war.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 05
                        +2
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        Are you pretending or don't really understand basic things? All wars go according to plan and in no other way. RI attacked in Prussia according to plan, France, too, was preparing to fight according to plan. Today, Russia also has a plan in case of war with NATO and vice versa. You at least talk to the military or something and do not write more stupidity.

                        The war itself was planned by Germany, in principle. Not getting it? And went according to Schlieffen’s plan
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        Meltke a soldier, he does not make political decisions. Once again, there is not ONE document where the timing of the start of the war was discussed in advance. Moreover in Wehrmacht there were opponents of the war on two fronts.

                        Which Wehrmacht, dear man? lol There are documents of Germany’s brutal pressure on Austria to declare an ultimatum and war for Serbia, despite a possible war with Russia, a war with Russia.
                        Here is the Chancellor of Germany, Betman-Hollweg. “The actions of Serbia may lead to a world war. But the future belongs to Russia, "which is growing and growing, and which is increasingly pressing on us, like some kind of dark spirit."
                        В March 1914 The ruling circles of Berlin studied the report of the chief of the General Staff von Moltke on Russia's military preparations. Moltke was based on the reports of the German military attache in St. Petersburg von Egeling: the Russian military machine has become much more effective since the defeat in the Far East in 1904-1905 ..:
                        “France is not yet ready for war, England is busy with internal affairs and colonial problems. Russia avoids war because it is afraid of revolution. Should we wait for our opponents to be ready, or will we seize the opportunity to solve our problems? ”
                        He:
                        “There is no other way but to carry out a preventive war and defeat the enemy, while we have a chance of victory ... Orient our policy to an earlier start of the war.
                        The rest of Europe should be organized into a great customs union, in which Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and the Netherlands, as well as the Balkans, will inevitably join the German bloc.
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        ed you write. Hitler had a plan of attack on Poland and the timing when it will be implemented. Poland was faced with a choice - the occupation of part of Poland or the war.
                        And they created a preposition-attack on the radio station. Did not know?
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        The war was declared after the mobilization of the Russian army. There would be no mobilization, Germany would not have supported AB.

                        Do not grind nonsense, but read the documents of Germany, PUSHING Austria to war.
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        What does the Hague have to do with it. if there were an ultimatum of 32 points?

                        Despite the fact that there was an INTERNATIONAL system (The Hague Conventions of 1899, 1907) for the resolution of countries' disputes in the Arbitration Court, adopted by Germany and Austria. You need to know such things
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        The war was declared in response to mobilization, which was immediately warned.

                        Now, then in advance lol -You already decide lol
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        The king had a choice - mobilization and war or not to mobilize and at least in the year 14 to avoid war

                        The war was predetermined, and it was against Russia, with practically the same goals as in 1941-eviction, Germanization, the superiority of the nation, annexation, robbery.
                        In 1941 they did it differently — they received a disaster unprecedented never and nowhere. Brains, not enough.
      2. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 19: 55
        +2
        The strategic mistake of both Germany and Russia was that they got in touch with very ambitious and irresponsible countries - Austria-Hungary and Serbia. With Serbia, it’s a song when they arranged a “Byzantine night” with the change of the monarchy by shooting the monarch and his entourage, who simply realized that it was dangerous to be with Austrians on knives.
        As a result, the Balkan squabbles dragged the Empires into their whirlpool. As a result, it was bad for everyone.
      3. Hantengri
        Hantengri 28 January 2018 21: 00
        +5
        Quotation: blooded man
        Due to the insignificant ultimatum of Serbia, we ourselves voluntarily entered into conflict. You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.

        "Everyone imagines himself a strategist,
        Seeing the battle from the side. "(C)
        It’s very easy, after the fact, knowing how it all ended, to give out clever tips. And, most importantly, no responsibility whatsoever. After all, everything has already happened! lol
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 23: 06
          +2
          Quote: HanTengri
          It’s very easy, after the fact, knowing how it all ended, to give out clever tips. And, most importantly, no responsibility whatsoever. After all, everything has already happened!

          Heh. He just might want to fight Germany when every year in your country there are strikes and strikes. When industry is several times smaller, etc. Well, when there is no way out, but you yourself have to manage to give an occasion to such a situation.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 28 January 2018 23: 42
            +2
            Quotation: blooded man
            Heh. He just might want to fight Germany when every year in your country there are strikes and strikes.

            "... we need a small victorious ..." (c)
            Quotation: blooded man
            When industry is several times smaller, etc. Well, when there is no way out, but you yourself have to manage to give an occasion to such a situation.

            "Abroad will help us!" (with)
            That's clearer?
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 January 2018 23: 45
              +1
              Quote: HanTengri
              That's clearer?

              What are you arguing with then?)
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 29 January 2018 00: 42
                +1
                Here with this:
                Quotation: blooded man
                You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.

                The history of the subjunctive mood does not tolerate. And you do not need to give advice, after the fact, to distribute, but to understand the causes and effects.
                Quotation: blooded man
                Unfortunately, the tsarist government and Nikolasha were real fools, or rather, they were incapable of government.

                In a zero approximation, this can be considered one of the reasons.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 29 January 2018 01: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  The history of the subjunctive mood does not tolerate. And you do not need to give advice, after the fact, to distribute, but to understand the causes and effects.

                  Well, here we’re kind of discussing what was the right thing to do and whether it was possible to avoid a war or at least postpone it.
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 29 January 2018 02: 08
                    +1
                    Then, IMHO, you should start with the following maxim: "If you do not know what the" bazaar "is, why assume that everything, as always, is due to the" dough "!" (c) D. Puchkov (Goblin) And, further, continue to search for the answer to the question: “what was the right thing to do and whether it was possible to avoid a war or at least postpone it?”, in the same, purely materialistic-mercantile manner. Given that:
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Unfortunately, the tsarist government and Nikolasha were real fools, or rather, they were incapable of government.
                    lol
        2. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 51
          0
          Therefore, can any stupidity be justified?
      4. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 January 2018 07: 44
        +2
        Quotation: blooded man
        Whether they would give it or not was another question, but the fact that it was not necessary to climb the horse forward is for sure. You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.

        You had a unique opportunity to repeat it the way you wanted: in 1940 you sat and watched, rubbing your hands, like damned imperialists wet each other. Remember the total?
        Due to the insignificant ultimatum of Serbia, we ourselves voluntarily entered into conflict.

        Learn the HISTORY: mobilization was announced against A-Hungary, which concentrated troops on the border with Russia.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 37
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          in 1940 you sat and watched, rubbing your hands — like damned imperialists wet each other. Remember the total?

          Of course I remember. Only situations are completely different. The USSR did not have an alliance with the West, but the RI had. Any GR attack automatically led to a war on two fronts, which happened.
          Stalin was one on one against Hitler, and if he followed military science and kept the western districts in an expanded state, then there would be no defeat.
          RI just had to sit and wait for the first step from the Germans, this is obvious.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Learn the HISTORY: mobilization was announced against A-Hungary, which concentrated troops on the border with Russia.

          You have monarchical blindness. Germany warned in advance. that mobilization against AB is an automatic declaration of war on Germany. You turn on foolishness and you don’t understand this type.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 January 2018 10: 21
            +2
            Quotation: blooded man
            Of course I remember. Only situations are completely different. The USSR did not have an alliance with the West, but the RI had.

            Nothing different: ALL the same: no one bothered to strike Germany in 1940
            Quotation: blooded man
            Any GR attack automatically led to a war on two fronts, which happened.

            GR is what?
            Quotation: blooded man
            Stalin was one on one against Hitler, and if he followed military science and kept the western districts in an expanded state, then there would be no defeat.

            England was. The defeat would be less, but the losses are still wild.
            And about the allies, it was necessary to learn from the Emperor.
            Quotation: blooded man
            RI just had to sit and wait for the first step from the Germans, this is obvious.

            The Germans declared war, if not in the know. What is this step? lol
            Quotation: blooded man
            You have monarchical blindness. Germany warned in advance. that mobilization against AB is an automatic declaration of war on Germany.

            You have a stupidity. There was NO such warning, you are simply ignoramus.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 30 January 2018 13: 21
              +1
              You have another monarchist attack. Drink pills. Read, educate.
              http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/sazonov_sd/in
              dex.html
      5. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 28
        0
        Quotation: blooded man
        Very controversial statement.

        In relation to the First World War - the only true. Read about operations on the Western Front or the Straits.
  7. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 28 January 2018 16: 33
    +4
    In the Great War, Russia fought for the same thing for which it has been fighting since the very moment of its appearance - for a place under the Sun worthy of the greatest peoples.
    1. Alf
      Alf 28 January 2018 21: 01
      +3
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      In the Great War, Russia fought for the same thing for which it has been fighting since the very moment of its appearance - for a place under the Sun worthy of the greatest peoples.

      And you can not so pathetic, but more specifically, for what?
      1. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 28 January 2018 21: 45
        +1
        For control of the Straits, free access to the Mediterranean Sea, protectorate over the Balkan countries, Slavic peoples of Austria-Hungary and the Christians of Turkey and the final destruction of the Ottoman Empire.
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 53
          +2
          And why the hell is this protectorate? Freed by financial collapse (barely Vyshnegradsky pulled the country out of the aftermath of the victory) from the Ottoman yoke, the southern Slavs immediately began to triple strange maneuvers in foreign policy, and as a result they broke up among themselves.
        2. Alf
          Alf 29 January 2018 21: 54
          +1
          Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
          For control of the Straits, free access to the Mediterranean Sea, protectorate over the Balkan countries, Slavic peoples of Austria-Hungary and the Christians of Turkey and the final destruction of the Ottoman Empire.

          That's what Durnovo said that there’s no reason to get Russia into WW1.
  8. Odysseus
    Odysseus 28 January 2018 16: 55
    11
    Yes, they sent for slaughter.
    Yes, the war was absolutely meaningless and not needed from the point of view of the interests of the Russian Empire (I recall that there is no abstract "Russia" and it is necessary to discuss the interests of a particular state).
    But these are elementary things absolutely understandable to any rational person, both then and now. The question is why did RI get involved with this war? And references to the idiocy of Nicholas 2 are not enough here. Yes, mediocrity, but it’s not about one person. The meaninglessness of the war was self-evident, but why, say, Durnovo the “leader of the right” (that is, the defenders of the empire) could not do anything and his note did not have any effect.
    Yes, because the Republic of Ingushetia was already dragged into the world capital system, and on the rights of its periphery, only the political shell remained from the empire itself, and even that most of the "imperial elite" (I'm not talking about the "intelligentsia") was already strong connected with the interests and ideals of the West. The interests and ideals of the Republic of Ingushetia itself did not care for everyone from the high bell tower, it was perceived as a historical misunderstanding.
    In such circumstances, the empire had no chance to avoid being drawn into the war, and accordingly the Russian workers (workers and peasants) had no chance to avoid the fate of cannon fodder for the Entente.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 28 January 2018 17: 19
      +4
      Too much text. In simple terms, the entire elite and almost the entire bourgeoisie were pro-Western and placed the interests of the West above the interests of the Republic of Ingushetia and the Russians. The USA, for example, was also in this capital system and also on the periphery at that time, but thanks to the pro-American elite, they entered the war only a year, it was beneficial to America, and not to the west.
      1. Cartalon
        Cartalon 28 January 2018 17: 33
        +4
        And to become a German vassal would be just the same brilliant decision in the national interest, and arguments about traitors, please have a surname and preferably with documentary evidence.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 17: 59
          +1
          Well, of course it’s better to be a vassal of the West and because of it destroy your own country. How cute.
          Surname is the whole elite of RI.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 28 January 2018 18: 59
        +3
        Quotation: blooded man
        In simple terms, the entire elite and almost the entire bourgeoisie were pro-Western and placed the interests of the West above the interests of RI and Russian

        By the way, there was a “pro-German" party there. But there was no “pro-Russian”, or rather, pro-imperial at all. More precisely, she was, but they were already marginalized.
        Quotation: blooded man
        The USA, for example, was also in this capital system and also on the periphery at that time, but thanks to the pro-American elite, they entered the war only a year, it was beneficial to America, and not to the west.

        Error. 1) The USA is a part of the West. RI was not her.
        2) The United States was not on the periphery of the capital system; they fought for hegemony with the British and German empires. Therefore, they probably had the existence of a pro-American elite.
        In RI, therefore, the existence of a pro-Russian elite was impossible because it was the periphery of the system. And then the "elites" had the illusion that they would overthrow the tsar and establish "democracy" into Europe. The existence of the empire was considered an annoying obstacle.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 19: 35
          +3
          Quote: Odyssey
          And then the "elites" had the illusion that having overthrown the king and established "democracy" they would be taken to Europe.

          This is the point. They considered themselves PART of the West, and not Russian. It began with Peter I who completely destroyed the pro-Russian elite and the country's development itself. From that moment on, any nobleman considered everything western to be advanced, and all his savagery and backwardness.
          In the USA it was completely different. Although they are part of the West, they have created their own elite for whom the American way of life is higher than the European. What's higher, they just considered themselves the most advanced. The same thing happened in Germany, England and France.
  9. bober1982
    bober1982 28 January 2018 17: 00
    +6
    The article is unsuccessful, sometimes just stupid, how William did not want war and persuaded the Russian tsar to abandon mobilization, and much more. Even commenting is difficult for such a literary work.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 29 January 2018 00: 37
      +1
      Do you have other data? William did not need a war with RI. Yes, and he was preparing for war with France and Britain.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 January 2018 07: 53
        +3
        Quote: Nehist
        Do you have other data? William did not need a war with RI

        Yeah, that's why he declared war! fool
        Quote: Nehist
        Yes, and he was preparing for war with France and Britain.

        With Britain, I did NOT absolutely plan to read it.
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 29 January 2018 08: 48
        +2
        Quote: Nehist
        William did not need a war with RI

        These are the plans for the war, which were long before Hitler, he was only guided by the plans of his predecessors:
        We are organizing a great forced eviction of lower nations ...
        A war is needed with France that would destroy forever its role as a great power
        Our main attention should be paid to the struggle against the Slavs, this our historical enemy.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 39
          +1
          Quote: bober1982
          These are the plans for the war, which were long before Hitler, he was only guided by the plans of his predecessors:
          We are organizing a great forced eviction of lower nations ...
          A war is needed with France that would destroy forever its role as a great power
          Our main attention should be paid to the struggle against the Slavs, this our historical enemy.

          Nonsense and juggling. There was nothing of the kind in the plans.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 29 January 2018 09: 46
            +3
            Quotation: blooded man
            There was nothing of the kind in the plans.

            Read at your leisure the works of Friedrich von Bernhardi, the glorious German general.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 53
              +1
              Quote: bober1982
              Read at your leisure the works of Friedrich von Bernhardi, the glorious German general.

              And he surrendered to me? Do you want me to advise you on a book by Zhirinovsky about the Indian Ocean? Racial views were in all countries and among many generals.
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 29 January 2018 10: 03
                +3
                Quotation: blooded man
                Racial views were in all countries and among many generals.

                I agree, but I do not mean the views, but the existing plan of action.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 29 January 2018 12: 37
                  0
                  Quote: bober1982
                  I agree, but I do not mean the views, but the existing plan of action.

                  Von Bernhardi may have had this plan, but William initially had nothing of the kind.
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 29 January 2018 12: 55
                    +4
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    but William initially had nothing of the kind.

                    Wilhelm is a German Kaiser, he is also a Russian admiral and a British field marshal, he is also an unscrupulous bastard (according to the Dowager Empress Maria Fyodorovna), long before the start of the world massacre, he called Russian enemies.
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 29 January 2018 15: 29
                      +1
                      Enemies and ethnic cleansing are two different things. The Russian soldiers in captivity did not starve to death, the Russians were not hanged just because they were Russian. But Serbs Austrians genocide and destroyed 20% of the population.
                      1. bober1982
                        bober1982 29 January 2018 18: 11
                        +2
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        Russian soldiers in captivity did not die of hunger,

                        The Germans even then created a concentration camp for the Russians; mortality was high from hunger.
  10. Opera
    Opera 28 January 2018 17: 24
    +9
    I’m very interested in talking about an unprofitable war and pulling (by ears. Or something) Russia into a war! The Germans crossed the border ... Germany declared war on Russia! We didn’t have to fight ?! Before you say such things, think a little gentlemen, but especially comrades! The emperor did not want war! Let me remind you that this led to initiatives in the Hague to limit arms and the creation of an international court! The emperor’s words spoken by him to the Russian ambassador in Bulgaria - “... I do not want war. I have done everything by my immutable rule to preserve the benefits of a peaceful life for my people. At this historical moment, everything that can lead to war must be avoided. .. "Even two weeks before the start of the war, Nicholas 2 demanded that the Minister of Foreign Affairs make decisions through diplomatic means! All documents unequivocally talking about such a position of the king are in the public domain. No need to philosophize crafty! What senseless war are they talking about here ?! Protection from attack from the outside is that nonsense ?!
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 28 January 2018 18: 00
      +3
      Apparently there was no “ultimatum” to Serbia and the mobilization of the Russian army. You live in a different world.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 28 January 2018 18: 25
        +4
        Quotation: blooded man
        Apparently there was no “ultimatum” to Serbia and the mobilization of the Russian army.

        Actually, Austria was the first to mobilize, and Nicholas II proposed bringing the issue of Serbia to an international court, but William didn’t.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 18: 44
          +2
          Quote: Dart2027
          Actually, Austria was the first to mobilize, and Nicholas II proposed bringing the issue of Serbia to an international court, but William didn’t.

          The mobilization of Austria was against Serbia, not RI.
          Why do we need an international court? AB wrote an ultimatum on points, it just had to be done. Serbia agreed to everything except ... admission to the investigation into the murder of AB police. That's because of this, we climbed to stand up for the Serbs.
          1. Opera
            Opera 28 January 2018 19: 23
            +4
            Your position is amazing in its simplicity - Russia climbed! The Russian Empire, you might be surprised, had its own geopolitical interests! Including in the Balkans. And the Serbs are not only fellow believers, but probably our only sincere ally in general! Those. do you think it turns out if the Russian Empire had not mobilized, 1 world war would not have happened ?!)) Tell me, what did Stalin provoke our German partners with? Didn’t remove the border guards from the border and didn’t offer visa-free services to the Wehrmacht?
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 January 2018 19: 48
              +2
              Quote: Oper
              Your position is amazing in its simplicity - Russia climbed! The Russian Empire, you might be surprised, had its own geopolitical interests!

              Of course I have a simple position. The main interests of Russia are the development of the country and its people, primarily Russian. It is not in Russia's interests to start a massacre because of the Serbs.
              Quote: Oper
              And the Serbs are not only fellow believers, but probably our only sincere ally in general!

              Yeah ally. They took it and attacked the Bulgarians, destroying all our policies that RI has built for many centuries. So to speak repaid good for good. They took a bang of Franz Joseph for the sake of building Great Serbia with the help of Russian bayonets.
              Quote: Oper
              Those. do you think it turns out if the Russian Empire had not mobilized 1 world war would not have happened ?!))

              I don’t know whether it would happen or not. But in 1914, it was definitely gone, and that’s an extra half a year for preparation. During these half a year, anything could have happened, the balance of power would have changed, the parties would have made concessions, or colonial wars would have begun in the colonies themselves instead of the WWII.
              Quote: Oper
              Tell me, why did Stalin provoke our German partners? Didn’t remove the border guards from the border and didn’t offer visa-free services to the Wehrmacht?

              Why is there such a stupid comparison. Wilhelm was not Hitler and he did not have racial theory. By the way, Stalin was obliged to keep the army on alert after Hitler dealt with the Western world.
              1. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 36
                0
                Quotation: blooded man
                . Wilhelm was not Hitler and he did not have racial theory.

                Read his statements I Slavs and Asians ... Hitler by and large just developed these statements further.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 31 January 2018 13: 46
                  0
                  Quote: Trapper7
                  Read his statements I Slavs and Asians ... Hitler by and large just developed these statements further.

                  Russians have always been considered savages before William and today.
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 28 January 2018 22: 53
            +2
            Quotation: blooded man
            The mobilization of Austria was against Serbia, not RI

            And so part of their troops was on our border?
            Quotation: blooded man
            Why do we need an international court?

            Do you really believe that this whole massacre was due to some kind of terrorist attack? The International Court of Justice was the last opportunity to try to come to an agreement somehow, and so - well, they wouldn’t have killed the Archduke, something else would have happened.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 January 2018 23: 11
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              And so part of their troops was on our border?

              It was because the RI empire threatened to intercede for Serbia. It was enough to bring in BG troops of the western district to neutralize the danger from AB.

              Quote: Dart2027
              Do you really believe that this whole massacre was due to some kind of terrorist attack?

              Of course not .
              Quote: Dart2027
              The International Court of Justice was the last opportunity to try to come to an agreement somehow, and so - well, they would not have killed the Archduke, something else would have happened.

              I didn’t understand anything, what would this court give? There is an ultimatum, fulfill it and there is no excuse for war. What is the difficulty? The fact that the Serbian elites were involved in this murder and could go to the gallows? RI, what matters?
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 January 2018 19: 44
                0
                Quotation: blooded man
                It was enough to bring in BG troops of the western district to neutralize the danger from AB.
                Well, AB didn’t need to start mobilization just because of little Serbia.
                Quotation: blooded man
                I didn’t understand anything, what would this court give? There is an ultimatum, fulfill it and there is no excuse for war. What is the difficulty?

                Quote: Dart2027
                International Court of Justice was the last opportunity to try to come to an agreement somehow

                And AB could find evidence of someone's involvement without much difficulty, the question is what would be their price.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 29 January 2018 21: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Well, AB didn’t need to start mobilization just because of little Serbia.

                  Serbia had a decent army and mobilization was needed. Another issue is that the mobilization occurred because the Serbs refused to comply with all points of the ultimatum. And they refused because RI guaranteed protection from AB. It was worth telling the Serbs to RI - it is necessary to fulfill and they would begin to fulfill.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  International Court of Justice was the last opportunity to try to come to an agreement somehow

                  What will you agree on? The heir to the throne was killed, the killer said he was connected with Serbian intelligence. What are you going to negotiate?

                  Quote: Dart2027
                  And AB could find evidence of someone's involvement without much difficulty, the question is what would be their price.

                  Any price would be millions of times less than the massacre of the world.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 January 2018 23: 12
                    +1
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    It was worth telling the Serbs to RI - it is necessary to fulfill and they would begin to fulfill

                    Actually, RI advised me to do it, but I couldn’t order it.
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    What will you agree on?
                    About avoiding the world carnage. Remind you
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Do you really believe that this whole massacre was due to some kind of terrorist attack?

                    Of course not .

                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Any price would be millions of times less than the massacre of the world.

                    I mean the price of their truth. Many were preparing the war, and the late Archduke was one of its most ardent opponents, and wanted to carry out reforms to reduce tension between the Austrians and Slavs, so who was at the root of the assassination is another question.
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 30 January 2018 13: 08
                      0
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Actually, RI advised me to do it, but I couldn’t order it.

                      If she advised, then why did she intercede for Serbia? Moreover, the Republic of Ingushetia guaranteed to Serbia through the mouth of Sazonov that in the event of aggression AB she would also enter the war. Naturally, Serbia, having an ambala behind it, sent the Austrians.
                      If RI advised to fulfill the ultimatum, they would tell the Serbs directly "if you refuse to fulfill, then RI will not fulfill its allied obligations." Then the Serbs would be guaranteed to fulfill the ultimatum.


                      Quote: Dart2027
                      About avoiding the world carnage. Remind you

                      To do this, it was necessary to perform an ultimatum and all. DON'T WANT TO PERFORM, then sort things out one on one.
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      I mean the price of their truth. Many were preparing the war, and the late Archduke was one of its most ardent opponents, and wanted to carry out reforms to reduce tension between the Austrians and Slavs, so who was at the root of the assassination is another question.

                      Was RI involved in this murder? No . Then what claims to us. The Serbs were 100% involved. After the Balkan Wars of 1913, fighting for the Serbs was up idiocy.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 30 January 2018 19: 30
                        +1
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        Serbs were implicated 100%

                        I mean, it is very likely that not only the Serbs, but also other special services were involved, it is possible that the AB.
                        Quotation: blooded man
                        To do this, it was necessary to perform an ultimatum and all.

                        Actually, you agreed that the cause of the war was not a terrorist attack, but the political situation in Europe. If RI refused from the Serbs, the war would have started anyway, well, maybe 5-6 months later.
      2. Opera
        Opera 28 January 2018 19: 11
        +2
        Of course they were! So what? Insidious Russia provoked Germany by its mobilization?)
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 January 2018 19: 36
          +2
          Quote: Oper
          Of course they were! So what? Insidious Russia provoked Germany by its mobilization?)

          In fact, mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia was the cause of the war, and the Germans honestly warned about this in advance.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 43
            +1
            Quotation: blooded man
            Quote: Oper
            Of course they were! So what? Insidious Russia provoked Germany by its mobilization?)

            In fact, mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia was the cause of the war, and the Germans honestly warned about this in advance.

            The reason for the war was Germany’s ambitions to redistribute the world and the new colonies, their desire to crush France, as well as the fact that AB frightened too rebellious Slavs.
            The reason was the desire of France to return the previously lost territories.
            And Germany climbed only because England "in words" said that she would not get into this conflict, despite the fact that England itself had promised France to help her and not to leave her in trouble.
            And you are all "mobilization, mobilization." For Germany, this was just an excuse. If it weren’t, they would have found another in a couple of months.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 29 January 2018 09: 55
              +1
              Quote: Trapper7
              And you are all "mobilization, mobilization." For Germany, this was just an excuse. If it weren’t, they would have found another in a couple of months.

              You can call this a pretext, only without this, in the 14th year of the war, there would certainly not have been a war.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 January 2018 10: 28
            +1
            Quotation: blooded man
            In fact, mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia was the cause of the war, and the Germans honestly warned about it. In advance.

            "In advance" is nonsense. hi
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 29 January 2018 12: 38
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              "In advance" is nonsense.

              HISTORICAL fact, Sazonov wrote about this.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 January 2018 16: 04
                +1
                Quotation: blooded man
                HISTORICAL fact, Sazonov wrote about this.

                There is no such "historical" fact.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 29 January 2018 17: 20
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  There is no such "historical" fact

                  Not for you, but for historians. You can of course refute the words of Sazonov and give another source.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 09
                    +1
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Not for you, but for historians. You can of course refute the words of Sazonov and give another source

                    So you bring the source yourself, not your rubbish hi
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 30 January 2018 13: 14
                      0
                      http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/sazonov_sd/in
                      dex.html
                      Read, educate.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 31 January 2018 10: 12
                        +2
                        Scrolled ONCE AGAIN, LEARN the knowledge of the predetermination of war:
                        . It was clear that we were not dealing with the ill-considered initiative of the short-sighted Austrian Minister, undertaken at his personal fear and responsibility, but with a carefully prepared plan, to which the consent of the German government was obtained in advance, without whose support Austria-Hungary would not dare to proceed with its implementation.
                        Occasion for war found by Austria-Hungary, Germany decided take the opportunity to settle accounts with eastern and western neighbors, to break down their strength once and for all and then calmly proceed with the implementation of their plan to re-create Central Europe on new principles, which would turn it for the needs and requirements of Germany on the threshold of the Middle East.


                        And, most importantly: NO your
                        Germans honestly warned about it in advance
                        -no. Learn!
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 28 January 2018 19: 45
      +1
      Oper, you are absolutely right: all this can be checked, but this requires desire, and some do not have it
    3. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 19: 59
      0
      If the Sovereign Emperor did not want war, he would pursue a more balanced policy in matters of military construction.
    4. Hantengri
      Hantengri 28 January 2018 22: 15
      +6
      Quote: Oper
      Before you say such things, think a little gentlemen, but especially comrades! The emperor did not want war!

      Well ... you never know what he wanted! Or didn’t want to ... The Emperor (President, Prime Minister) does not rule; the ruling class rules; And if the Emperor’s Wishlist (etc.) do not coincide too much with the interests of this class, then a “scarf”, “apoplexy strike” with a snuffbox, or “Lee Harvey Oswald” happens at worst. But does that Emperor need it? And if Germany, by 1914, "squeezed" from RI (read from respected people) approx. 30% of the grain market. And besides, France wanted to fight (Alsace and Lorraine laughing ), and the Republic of Ingushetia "stuck out" France with sensible grandmothers ... That ... (including ophtmat and diamat to help you) laughing
    5. Nehist
      Nehist 29 January 2018 00: 39
      +3
      What fright did the Germans cross the border with? The 14 company of the year began with the fact that the troops of the Republic of Ingushetia crossed the border of Austria-Hungary and Germany
      1. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 47
        +1
        Quote: Nehist
        What fright did the Germans cross the border with? The 14 company of the year began with the fact that the troops of the Republic of Ingushetia crossed the border of Austria-Hungary and Germany

        Yes? Um. okay. That is, Germany in 1914 did not cross any borders. Okay, let’s take it as an axiom and ask what the Belgians and French think about it.
        At the same time, we will take an interest in Belgium what it thinks about Germany's observance of neutrality by third countries)))
  11. Cartalon
    Cartalon 28 January 2018 17: 28
    +7
    Stupid agitation and not an article
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 28 January 2018 19: 42
    +8
    Shirokorad, chief artillery specialist, in his line: historical facts can be shuffled like cards. I also allow myself to "sort out solitaire."
    1) Austria-Hungary has long been looking for a reason to and looked at Russia as a future enemy, and therefore: "Austro-Hungarian investigators and a number of foreign historians that a military agent (atache) Colonel Artamonov and his deputy captain Verkhovsky are involved in organizing the assassination in the same way, V.V. “chose Trump”, and in Aleppo he helped Assad to equip bombs with sarin.
    2) Immediately after the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, the Austrian-Hungarian Chancellor wrote that: “he intends to use the Sarajevo crime to settle accounts with the Family” the investigation has not yet begun, and Chancellor Berthold has already appointed the guilty! On July 23, Serbia was issued an ultimatum and demanded there: "immediate exclusion from service of all Serbian officers and officials whose names the Austro-Hungarian government will indicate" (what) .5 paragraph demanded: "the establishment of Austro-Hungarian bodies in Serbia itself to cooperate in suppressing revolutionary movements against Austria-Hungary "(in my opinion this is rudeness) 6 point:" allowing Austrian officials to investigate on Serbian territory "agree that rudeness is pouring out of ears.
    Serbia accepted an ultimatum. Kaiser Wilhelm wrote: "The great success of Vienna. But he rules out any excuse for war."
    Russia, until recently, sought to avoid war: "As long as there is at least the slightest hope of avoiding bloodshed, all my efforts (Nikolai2) will be directed towards this goal."
    As early as July 25, Austria-Hungary began mobilization against Serbia and on the border with Russia. This is something like this: an ambal with a club is at your doorstep and what should you do? In Russia, they only decided to return troops from summer camps to permanent positions. 28 Austria-Hungary launched a war with Serbia and refused to negotiate with Russia. And Nicholas 2, so that there was no reason for war, forbids even partial mobilization (it was assumed partial mobilization: Kiev, Kazan, Moscow and Odessa districts). As early as July 30, Russia proposed to Austria: Russia refuses to mobilize, and in return did not even demand an end to the war with the Family and demobilization on the Russian border! The general mobilization was announced at midnight on July 30!
    And where is: "the Kaiser persuaded the king to stop the mobilization" ?.
    All this can be read in Sazonov’s memoirs (I had this book in my hands, but .... Finance performed romances) and. Denikin: "The Way of the Russian Officer"
    R. S back in 1987-88, but I read in the Soviet War that “the case of Colonel (Apis) Dragovic” was already very “strange”: he was actually tried by the French (Serbia was occupied and the Serbian army was in France). In 1959, the Belgrade Military Tribunal acquitted Dragovic (he was tried for treason) and recognized him as a patriot
    1. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 19: 58
      +2
      We look simply - who benefits. Serbia has grown strongly territories.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 28 January 2018 20: 36
        +3
        Moreover, the Croats and Slovenes rested their feet and hands ... But the Entente kicked them, drove them into the kingdom of Serbs and Croats ... And then the same, in the 90s when they destroyed Yugoslavia, the first recognized the independence of Croatia and Slovenia ...
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 55
          +1
          Well, we must thank the guys who famously leaked the three leading forces of the Heartland! laughing
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 28 January 2018 19: 58
      +2
      Quote: Monarchist
      In Russia, they only decided to return troops from summer camps to permanent positions.

      Well, why so blatantly lie.
    3. Nehist
      Nehist 29 January 2018 00: 52
      +1
      After Joseph, who was supposed to sit on the throne in Austria-Hungary? It was Ferdinand, who led the peace party with Russia because of what he had conflicts with the same Berthold. Regarding the ultimatum, he has two editions, one very harsh about which you write a monarchist and the second softer after the intervention of Wilhelm which was adopted by the Serbs
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 29 January 2018 01: 30
        +1
        Quote: Nehist
        Regarding the ultimatum, he has two editions, one very harsh about which you write a monarchist and the second softer after the intervention of Wilhelm which was adopted by the Serbs

        Yes, there both editions did not lead to the occupation of Serbia. Yes, I would have to hang a few Serb patriots, but no more.
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 29 January 2018 05: 32
          0
          I re-read the texts of the ultimatum ... Yes, there are generally all the requirements are quite appropriate. Remind today's Russia, which also requires at the moment almost the same from the international community))))
          1. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 36
            0
            I was not surprised. By the way, the murder was the most important Slavophile of Austria-Hungary ...
            And by the way, the main opponent of the conflict with Russia. Ferdinand did not like Russia (why the hell he needs it - it’s not clear, but they say it’s a sin!), But he understood that enmity with her would not lead to anything good for his Empire. So his partnership was not cordial, but reasonable. And then bam - they remove such a figure ... Obviously not only the Serbs and ours tried ...
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 31 January 2018 20: 04
              0
              Quote: Nukesmoke
              Apparently not only the Serbs and ours tried ..

              Evidence of our participation will be?
  13. Curious
    Curious 28 January 2018 19: 47
    +6
    Another article from the rubric "You wanted a sracha - I have them." Alexander Borisovich, smelling the slightest fluctuations in conjuncture, mastered the literary style of "What are you doing?". As a result of titanic creative efforts, 1001 paraphrases of well-known facts were born, which did not bring the broad masses closer to the truth, but presented another opportunity to throw opponents into the mud of “Bulk-crunches” and “Bolsheviks”.
    So of course, it is easier than to analyze in detail the entire course of world politics, starting with the Franco-Prussian war, to consider and analyze all those destabilizing factors that have accumulated in European and world politics since 1871, as well as the possibility of somehow resolving all the issues that have arisen in peace the way is what kind of work. And the next sketch - there is no need to strain. Only the value of such "creativity" is completely zero. But the fees are regularly.
    1. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 23: 57
      +2
      And who is mentally prepared to read the capital for thousands of pages of the “Russia during the World War” pages (at the same time there’s just a bunch of references to the same capital companies, smaller).
    2. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 09: 51
      +2
      Thank. The most accurate commentary on this article. Thank you
  14. Monarchist
    Monarchist 28 January 2018 19: 48
    +4
    Quotation: blooded man
    Quote: Blue Cop
    All armies in all wars are sent to slaughter.

    Very controversial statement.
    Quote: Blue Cop
    Russia didn’t give a break in 14
    Just then defeated b alone and that's it.

    Whether they would give it or not was another question, but the fact that it was not necessary to climb the horse forward is for sure. Due to the insignificant ultimatum of Serbia, we ourselves voluntarily entered into conflict. You just had to sit and limit yourself to diplomatic statements.
    Quote: Blue Cop
    Previously, we weren’t fools either, now we are all strong in hindsight

    Unfortunately, the tsarist government and Nikolasha were real fools, or rather, they were incapable of government.

    Comfortably sitting on the couch to indicate who was right for 100 years. Back!
  15. Moscow landing
    Moscow landing 28 January 2018 19: 55
    +4
    Despite the obvious bias of the author, I agree with the conclusion that this war is aimless for RI. A stupid undertaking with straits would require an expensive supply of the sea, the genocide of the living Turks and an eternal conflict with them. Having captured Constantinople, we would have ensured the protection of the Black Sea ports, but would not have provided access to the Mediterranean Sea at all.
    1. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 28 January 2018 20: 01
      +1
      Ethnically Turkish, Constantinople, the Straits zone and the Aegean coast of Anatolia became already after the First World War, at Ataturk.
    2. Alf
      Alf 28 January 2018 21: 06
      +3
      Quote: Moscow landing
      eternal conflict

      And before that, Russia and Turkey had eternal peace and Vasya-Vasya.
  16. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 19: 56
    0
    Quotation: blooded man
    Stop, I didn’t say that we had to be on the sidelines. We had to be in the place of France, that is, stand up for an ally, and not vice versa.

    It's funny that the French did intervene. : The Germans could deploy trains two days before the invasion.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 28 January 2018 20: 08
      +3
      Because this war was beneficial for them, they prepared for it and prepared for it RI giving money for military needs.
      In fact, WITHOUT RI entering the war, France could not fight, and therefore it was important that Germany would first declare war on RI.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 28 January 2018 20: 40
        0
        The French can be understood - in Alsace-Lorraine, among other things, ore is also very high quality.
        Do you know what the crappiest thing is? It is that the "special rifle brigades" were identical in state to the colonial ones, and they sent 100 thousand soldiers, received 93 thousand Lebel rifles ....
  17. Moscow landing
    Moscow landing 28 January 2018 20: 27
    +2
    Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
    Ethnically Turkish, Constantinople, the Straits zone ... became already after the First World War, at Ataturk.

    Turks prevailed in Thrace.
    [media = http: //]
    1. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 28 January 2018 21: 31
      +1

      Nat minorities lived compactly, and in Constantinople alone, Christians (Greeks and Armenians) made up one third to half of the inhabitants. That is, there was someone to lean on.
  18. Borik
    Borik 28 January 2018 20: 59
    +2
    The German Linke-Hofmann R1 has a payload of four tons and it includes not only the weight of the bombs. So where could it have 8 tons of bomb load.
    1. Borik
      Borik 28 January 2018 21: 24
      +3
      Built two pieces and did not participate in the war
  19. VladGashek
    VladGashek 28 January 2018 21: 26
    +2
    I agree with the author. Hatchery was the principle of tsarist thinking. Let us recall the shameful attack of the armies of Renenkampf and Samsonov on East Prussia, when without heavy artillery and b \ n the Russian soldiers went to heroic bayonet attacks and mowed down machine guns with whole battalions. Therefore, any discussion of modern pseudo-historians about the offensive in 1917 is broken by the fact - there was no longer a heroic Russian army. She was buried in the battles of 14-15. There were warrant officers from freeloaders and soldiers from artisans and strong peasants who did not care about sovereign interests.
    1. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 29 January 2018 10: 53
      0
      Quote: Vladgashek
      . Let us recall the shameful attack of the armies of Renenkampf and Samsonov on East Prussia, when without heavy artillery and b \ n the Russian soldiers went to heroic bayonet attacks and mowed down machine guns with whole battalions.

      But do not want to remember the shameful offensive of the Wehrmacht in Belgium, when German soldiers went to heroic attacks in columns and mowed machine guns with whole battalions?
      And the most shameful offensive of the French army in 1914 when French soldiers in red trousers went into heroic attacks and coughed up with whole battalions without even seeing the enemy?
      The conditions of the war changed too quickly, and mistakes were characteristic of all the armies of all countries of the whole world, and not just the Russian army.
      And in East Prussia we not only had a defeat, before him there was a victory, and considerable for that time.
  20. co-creator
    co-creator 28 January 2018 23: 21
    +2
    Blue Cop,
    Quote: Blue Cop
    Germany declared war on Russia.
    Everything else is lyrics. Mobilization does not mean war.
    So the first step. not we did. Well, the fact that in conjunction with the Allies is the instinct of self-preservation, so as not to be left alone with the entire Fourth Alliance.

    Mobilization is exactly what war meant, the Germans warned RI about this. The tsar had the choice to declare mobilization and get a war or not to declare it, and the Serbs would have to carry out an “ultimatum.” This meant at least half a year of postponing the war, and perhaps it would not exist at all. The tsar decided to fight and pro ... the country and sent his family to Calvary.
    Your record is stuck. How would we be left face to face if we had not announced mobilization? History needs to be known. France declared war on Germany only after Germany declared it RI. There would be no mobilization, there would be no declaration of war on the Republic of Ingushetia, which means France did not declare war on Germany.
  21. gladcu2
    gladcu2 29 January 2018 00: 22
    0
    It should be noted that in the prewar years, Russia was considered the most economically developed power, the empire. Russia had an undeniable influence.

    The crises of capitalism in international relations were also resolved through large and small wars or conflicts.
    In this regard, Russia initiated the organization of an interstate Hague court, making the main cash contribution and committing itself to influence the fair resolution of conflicts based on the results of the court.

    Knowing the soft nature of Nicholas II, it is appropriate to assume that Russia's entry into the First World War was caused by moral considerations of Nicholas II.

    All the same, many-way GDPs are much more acceptable than Nikolai’s moral straightforwardness.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 29 January 2018 02: 51
      +5
      Quote: gladcu2
      Knowing the soft nature of Nicholas II, it is appropriate to assume that Russia's entry into the First World War was caused by moral considerations of Nicholas II.

      What moral considerations are you talking about?
      Russia could not help but enter the World War, because in the hands of French, English and Belgian capital were the most important industries of Russia (metallurgy and coal by 72%, oil production by 50% depended on foreign capital), and its external pre-war Entente was determined in amount of 7 billion gold rubles. All these circumstances turned Russia into a tributary of these countries, into their semi-colony.
      therefore the Russian bourgeoisie hoped, starting a war, to improve their affairs: to conquer new markets, cash in on military orders and supplies, and tsarism hoped, using the military situation, to suppress the rising revolutionary movement of the proletariat.
  22. gsev
    gsev 29 January 2018 01: 32
    +2
    I disagree with the author that Russia should have condoned German aggression. Everyone knows the statement of Bismarck, "To defeat Russia, Ukraine must be torn from it." It is evident that he gives in this statement the answer to the burning question of his time. In European history, this question appeared in the 19th century and was caused by the problem of the conquest of Europeans by colonies around the world. By that time, Europe did not see any problems for itself in expansion either in Europe (Turkey), the Eastern question, nor in Africa nor in Asia. China seemed to be crushed by the Opium Wars, they thought about Japan that its highest technological progress in becoming a factory for the production of pearl buttons, Afghanistan and Ethiopia seemed an accidental failure of the English and Italian command. But Russia was already then devoted to research that it stands in the way of the expansion of the West and should be destroyed. These studies in historical science are called the "Russian Question" or the "Question of the Russian impregnable fortress." I call it within the meaning - the term itself may sound differently. And it was the German (German and Austrian public) from the time of the unification of Germany until 1945 that cherished dreams of “Onslaught to the East”, of living space up to the Urals, of unpretentious Slav Slaves and obedient concubines in their new estates. Moreover, this was openly expressed by the German intelligentsia to their Russian interlocutors even after the defeat in World War I before Hitler came to power.
  23. Nemesis
    Nemesis 29 January 2018 07: 08
    0
    The more I read about that time, the more I come to the conclusion that Nicholas II had a clear mental illness ... A healthy person could not do so many stupid things at once ...
  24. Moscow landing
    Moscow landing 29 January 2018 07: 28
    0
    Quote: Alf
    Quote: Moscow landing
    eternal conflict

    And before that, Russia and Turkey had eternal peace and Vasya-Vasya.

    And before that, Russia attacked Turkey, because it, blood from the nose, needed Kars. RI sodates were also told that the Bulgarian brothers suffered greatly under oppression. True, fighting in Bulgaria, the miracle heroes were very surprised, comparing their "happy" life with Bulgarian life.
  25. Opera
    Opera 29 January 2018 10: 13
    +2
    Quotation: blooded man
    Quote: Oper
    Of course they were! So what? Insidious Russia provoked Germany by its mobilization?)

    In fact, mobilization in the Republic of Ingushetia was the cause of the war, and the Germans honestly warned about this in advance.

    You know, the further I read that. what do you write the more I am perplexed - do you hate the Russian Empire to such an extent or love Germany ?! "The Germans honestly warned!" Well, they are now regularly warning us all, so what ?! It's hard to comment on that. Don’t be offended, but I won’t comment on such things anymore. Want to talk seriously, please. And what can be answered by the statement that Russia provoked World War I ?! Never mind! You say no analogies should be drawn? And why?! They still convince us that we provoked the 1nd world !!! Will you argue too ?! In a dispute, in theory, truth must be born! But you don’t argue! I’m giving some arguments. The words of famous people of that time. And you come out with an armored car! Well, is this the case ?!
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 29 January 2018 12: 55
      +1
      Quote: Oper
      You know, the further I read that. what do you write the more I am perplexed - do you hate the Russian Empire to such an extent or love Germany?

      Why did you draw such conclusions? In my opinion, on the contrary, you support the defeat of the Republic of Ingushetia and its collapse, and then the civil war. On the contrary, I say that the tsar is to blame for this, who did everything for RI to enter the war.
      Quote: Oper
      The Germans honestly warned! "Well, they still warn us all regularly and what ?! It’s hard to comment on this. You don’t be offended, but I won’t comment on such things anymore.

      I am writing the truth. The Germans warned - "your mobilization will be on your mobilization. And this is a war. Serbia refused to comply with the legal requirements of AB, let them understand it themselves."
      Who is dearer to you than Russia and the Russian people or a bunch of Serbian nationalists who were involved in the murder of Ferdinand? As I understand it, for the sake of the Serbs, you are ready to sacrifice your country and your people, but I'm not ready.
      Quote: Oper
      Want to talk seriously, please.

      But I was not joking.
      Quote: Oper
      And what can be answered by the statement that Russia provoked World War I ?! Never mind! You say no analogies should be drawn? And why?! They still convince us that we provoked the 1nd world !!! You will argue too ?!

      Well, in fact it is, RI provoked the war in 1914 when it could easily be avoided. Germany needed a reason and the tsar provided this reason. The fact that in Germany they themselves did not decide to fight to the end or not says that RI warned of the consequences. It remains to understand why the king and the elite did so.
      You can certainly pretend du..ra..kom and say - they say our diplomats and the king did not understand what would happen, they could not do otherwise, a word is more expensive than gold.

      We could not provoke WWII since Hitler was a Nazi who pursued a racial policy and set a goal for the domination of the Aryan race in the world. William didn’t want anything like that.
      Quote: Oper
      But you don’t argue! I’m giving some arguments. The words of famous people of that time. And you come out with an armored car! Well, is this the case ?!

      There are recollections of Foreign Minister Sazonov, he describes in detail how the decision was made to mobilize and that he clearly understood that this was a war.
  26. Opera
    Opera 29 January 2018 10: 16
    +2
    Quote: gsev
    But Russia was already then devoted to research that it stands in the way of the expansion of the West and should be destroyed. These studies in historical science are called the "Russian Question" or the "Question of the Russian impregnable fortress." I call it within the meaning - the term itself may sound differently. And it was the German (German and Austrian public) from the time of the unification of Germany until 1945 that cherished dreams of “Onslaught to the East”, of living space up to the Urals, of unpretentious Slav Slaves and obedient concubines in their new estates. Moreover, this was openly expressed by the German intelligentsia to their Russian interlocutors even after the defeat in World War I before Hitler came to power.

    Can anyone argue with that ?! Who doesn’t know this ?! However, adults seem to argue and do not know or pretend to be people ...
  27. Opera
    Opera 30 January 2018 07: 54
    +3
    Quote: shuravi
    Firstly, RI fought with Germany far from alone. Moreover, not on the main front,

    But Germany fought alone ?! But, just "not on the most important front" Germany suffered its most important losses! Regarding direct insults on your part, I want to say that taking offense at a completely uneducated person is a perfect luxury! I can not afford it! It’s absolutely pointless to call yourself decently. You can’t even imagine what it is. Spitting on the centuries-old history of a great country for people leading the history of Russia since 1917 is so familiar that it causes nothing but a grin!
  28. co-creator
    co-creator 31 January 2018 13: 43
    +1
    Quote: bober1982
    Quotation: blooded man
    Russian soldiers in captivity did not die of hunger,

    The Germans even then created a concentration camp for the Russians; mortality was high from hunger.

    It's a lie. The Germans treated the Russians as well as other prisoners the same. My great-grandfather was in captivity, and when everything became ill with food, they began to send people to German farms where they lived and worked as workers. The German woman even suggested that he stay with her husband when the war ended, but he returned home.
  29. co-creator
    co-creator 31 January 2018 13: 49
    0
    Quote: Dart2027
    Quotation: blooded man
    Serbs were implicated 100%

    I mean, it is very likely that not only the Serbs, but also other special services were involved, it is possible that the AB.
    Quotation: blooded man
    To do this, it was necessary to perform an ultimatum and all.

    Actually, you agreed that the cause of the war was not a terrorist attack, but the political situation in Europe. If RI refused from the Serbs, the war would have started anyway, well, maybe 5-6 months later.

    Now, you acknowledge that we did not intervene for the Serbs; we had 5-6 months to prepare both the army and the empire itself. Moreover, anything could happen during these half a year, for example, the powers went wild and agreed among themselves or the war began somewhere in the colonies.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 31 January 2018 20: 08
      0
      Quotation: blooded man
      that we did not stand up for the Serbs we had 5-6 months to prepare both the army and the empire itself

      Firstly, not the fact that it would be - I believe that this is the maximum period.
      Secondly, you slightly forget that no one in RI or in AB or in Germany thought that the war would drag on for several years - it was assumed that everything would be decided in the same six months.
      Quotation: blooded man
      for example, the powers went wild and agreed among themselves or the war began somewhere in the colonies.

      I have already written more than once that the attempt to settle the matter with the world was precisely the initiative of Nicholas II, and the option of war in the colonies was zero - there were too many weapons in Europe.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 31 January 2018 21: 06
        0
        Quote: Dart2027
        Firstly, not the fact that it would be - I believe that this is the maximum period.

        Would . In winter, no one would have started a war and waited for the heat and dryness to come, and this is the beginning of summer.
        Quote: Dart2027
        Secondly, you slightly forget that no one in RI or in AB or in Germany thought that the war would drag on for several years - it was assumed that everything would be decided in the same six months.
        It is possible, but our general staff said directly that the army would be ready for war no earlier than 15-16. That is, instead of taking time, Nikolasha climbed into the war knowing that the army was not ready.

        Quote: Dart2027
        I have already written more than once that the attempt to settle the matter with the world was precisely the initiative of Nicholas II, and the option of war in the colonies was zero - there were too many weapons in Europe.

        If he wanted to settle the world, he would not stand up for the Serbs who refused to fulfill only one point of the ultimatum.
        There was a very high probability that the Germans, with the combat readiness of the Republic of Ingushetia in 2015 (specifically large-caliber artillery), did not fight on 2 fronts. Actually, there were a lot of quotes from German generals where the essence is the following - in a year RI will be too strong and there will be no chance of winning the war on 2 fronts.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 1 February 2018 19: 54
          0
          Quotation: blooded man
          In winter, no one would have started a war and waited for the heat and dryness to come

          If you really began to wait, but did not start its descent.
          Quotation: blooded man
          It is possible, but our General Staff said directly that the army would be ready for war no earlier than 15-16

          Yes, but the problem is that in Germany and AB they also knew about it, as well as in England. Based on the fact that one of the goals was the destruction of the Republic of Ingushetia, it would be foolish to give her time to prepare, since everyone else was ready.
          Quotation: blooded man
          There was a very high probability that the Germans, with the combat readiness of the Republic of Ingushetia in 2015 (specifically large-caliber artillery), did not fight on 2 fronts. Actually, there were a lot of quotes from German generals where the essence is the following - in a year RI will be too strong and there will be no chance of winning the war on 2 fronts.
          And from this followed a simple and logical conclusion - you need to beat right now, while she is not ready.
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 2 February 2018 14: 06
            0
            Quote: Dart2027
            If you really began to wait, but did not start its descent.

            On the move, it doesn’t work out, too many people and equipment. You need to step on the fields, not asphalt concrete.
            Quote: Dart2027
            Yes, but the problem is that in Germany and AB they also knew about it, as well as in England. Based on the fact that one of the goals was the destruction of the Republic of Ingushetia, it would be foolish to give her time to prepare, since everyone else was ready.

            Well, that means Sazonov and Nicholas II also wanted to destroy RI. Since it is not clear why they gladly gave rise to the war instead of delaying it by all means until the age of 15 at least.
            Quote: Dart2027
            And from this followed a simple and logical conclusion - you need to beat right now, while she is not ready.

            A completely different conclusion follows from this, it was necessary not to declare mobilization and leave Serbia to abandon Serbia if it refused to fulfill the ultimatum and demands that RI enter the war unprepared.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 2 February 2018 14: 27
              0
              Quotation: blooded man
              On the move, it doesn’t work out, too many people and equipment
              I mean in the same time frame as our story.
              Quotation: blooded man
              Since it is not clear why they gladly gave rise to the war instead of delaying it by all means until the age of 15, at least.
              The reason for the war was given by those who killed the Archduke, although I think that without this there would have been a formal justification. It’s just that in order to start a war, the desire of one side is enough, but in order to prevent it, you need the desire, if not all, then at least the majority, and the majority was eager to fight.
              Quotation: blooded man
              A completely different conclusion follows from this, it was necessary not to declare mobilization and leave Serbia to abandon Serbia if it refused to fulfill the ultimatum and demands that RI enter the war unprepared.
              The war in the Balkans would inevitably develop into a pan-European war, not because of the Serbs, most of the participants simply did not care about them, but because the majority was ready and wanted to fight.
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 2 February 2018 16: 39
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                I mean in the same time frame as our story.

                Understood nothing? What framework? All major wars begin in the summer or when it is dry. The WWII began on August 1, with at least another half a month of negotiations and dates would have to be postponed until next year. So, even for a blitz krieg, a minimum of a month and a half was needed.
                Quote: Dart2027
                here, in order to prevent it, you need a desire, if not all, then at least the majority, and the majority was eager to fight.

                That's right. Our Tsar Nikolasha was very eager for this war and he did not care about the empire and his people. Even the war with Japan did not teach him anything, well, he was incapable of public administration and mental activity.
                Quote: Dart2027
                The war in the Balkans would inevitably develop into a pan-European

                What joy is this? France for the Serbs would never have intervened, if only because it did not have a common border with AB. Everything depended entirely on RI. If ours had merged the Serbs, then the war would be carried over to the next year at least. At the same time, the merger of Serbia did not mean war for it, war and occupation.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 2 February 2018 20: 05
                  0
                  Quotation: blooded man
                  WWII began on August 1, at least another half month of negotiations
                  The question is whether the rest would agree to these negotiations. I repeat And in Germany and in AB and in France and in England they longed for war.
                  Quotation: blooded man
                  That's right. Our Tsar Nikolasha was very eager for this war and he did not care about the empire and his people
                  Will there be evidence?
                  Quotation: blooded man
                  What joy is this? France for Serbs would never stand up

                  Quote: Dart2027
                  not because of the Serbs, most of the participants simply did not care about them, but because the majority was ready and wanted to fight
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator 2 February 2018 21: 20
                    0
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    The question is whether the rest would agree to these negotiations. I repeat And in Germany and in AB and in France and in England they yearned for war

                    Where would they go? A-B would solve the issue with Serbia which would agree to an ultimatum or not, it would still take several months. Would Germany declare war on the Entente for no reason? There are no plans and papers that Germany had prepared a military operation for 1914 in advance. Moreover, would AB agree to support Germany against the Entente if Serbia was surrendered to it? Indeed, in AB, they agreed with great creak to this war, and that was only because society demanded that the Serbs be punished for Ferdinand.
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Will there be evidence?

                    I voiced them. Knowing that the country was not ready for war, he started it. If Stalin tried to push it away by all means, even by criminal error (this is a refusal to keep troops on the border in a combat state when the Germans were mobilized on the contrary), then Nikolai took and personally gave the order to start war. Sazonov, when he persuaded the tsar to "fulfill his duty to the Serbs," told him direct mobilization is a war with Germany. Any king who wanted peace and knew the state of the army would certainly refuse it.

                    Quote: Dart2027
                    not because of the Serbs, most of the participants simply did not care about them, but because the majority was ready and wanted to fight

                    Well, so I say, Nicholas wanted to fight, so he fought. Nothing his war with Japan taught.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 3 February 2018 06: 54
                      0
                      Quotation: blooded man
                      Would Germany declare war on the Entente for no reason?

                      One could even come up with an excuse, for example, they would announce that the French were involved in the murder.
                      Quotation: blooded man
                      it’s a refusal to keep troops on the border in a combat state when on the contrary was a mobilized army of Germans
                      In fact, there were orders to increase combat readiness, but they were sabotaged by local commanders, such as Pavlov.
                      Quotation: blooded man
                      I voiced them. Knowing that the country is not ready for war, he started it
                      That is, Russia begins to mobilize after most of the participating countries, but did it start a war? Original.
                      1. co-creator
                        co-creator 3 February 2018 14: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        One could even come up with an excuse, for example, they would announce that the French were involved in the murder.

                        Of course, no one can argue. But 70% to 30%, which in 1914 they would not have time to start a war. The point is not whether the Germans would have come up with another excuse or not. but in the fact that RI itself provided an occasion to start a war instead of not doing it by all means.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In fact, there were orders to increase combat readiness, but they were sabotaged by local commanders, such as Pavlov.

                        You can certainly defend Stalin. but the order to bring the troops of the Western District into combat readiness had to be given immediately as soon as the Germans began to transfer armies to Poland, which was about a month before the war. Such an order could not be sabotaged for a month.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, Russia begins to mobilize after most of the participating countries, but did it start a war? Original.

                        RI mobilized the second after AB and the king knew very well that this meant mobilizing Germany. And this is a 100% war. The tsar twice did not agree to mobilize, but from the third he was persuaded or intimidated (according to different historians).
                        It's like boxers. They scheduled a duel and you get an injury that gives a great advantage to the opponent. A real athlete will refuse to fight even if he is deprived of the championship belt, since health is more important. Well, the stupid boxer will still go to box because he does not want to lose money or simply because of the FWM.
  30. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 13: 58
    0
    Quotation: blooded man
    William didn’t want anything like that.

    Willy-Sukhoruky was drifted of course on the basis of the nation, but then they laughed at him in the German elite.
  31. co-creator
    co-creator 31 January 2018 15: 42
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    Scrolled ONCE AGAIN, LEARN the knowledge of the predetermination of war:
    . It was clear that we were not dealing with the ill-considered initiative of the short-sighted Austrian Minister, undertaken at his personal fear and responsibility, but with a carefully prepared plan, to which the consent of the German government was obtained in advance, without whose support Austria-Hungary would not dare to proceed with its implementation.
    Occasion for war found by Austria-Hungary, Germany decided take the opportunity to settle accounts with eastern and western neighbors, to break down their strength once and for all and then calmly proceed with the implementation of their plan to re-create Central Europe on new principles, which would turn it for the needs and requirements of Germany on the threshold of the Middle East.


    And, most importantly: NO your
    Germans honestly warned about it in advance
    -no. Learn!

    You read across)
    June 30, 1914 mobilization of AB.
    Sazonov to the tsar about reciprocal mobilization.
    "or we must remove the sword from its scabbard in order to protect our vital interests !!!!! interests .. or we will cover ourselves with eternal shame, turning away from the battle, leaving ourselves at the mercy of Germany and Austria"
    I am translating for you. Germany did not declare war on the Republic of Ingushetia, Austria did not even declare that Sazonov said bluntly that mobilization by the Republic of Ingushetia was a war with Germany. Did you guess it yourself or was he told about it?
    On February 21, 1914, Zhilinsky told Sazonov "the Russian army will not be ready for a full-scale battle only in 1915-1916
    You will find in more detail yourself by reading horizontally.
  32. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 31 January 2018 15: 55
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: Nukesmoke
    Mendeleev wrote a lot of negative things about the Empire. I read it. Acute and correct criticism.

    We talked about DEMOGRAPHY, Mendeleev wrote "To the knowledge of Russia", where his forecasts are very different from the Russian Cross built by the Bolsheviks.

    And I tell you all about his thoughts. Mendeleev could not foresee that in the Empire in the last 15 years such a whistle would begin that even bear the saints. Yes, and he naively thought that the leadership would be smarter.
    So the forecast of the ravines did not take into account :))))
  33. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 2 February 2018 16: 25
    0
    Quote: Dart2027
    Training a worker does not require a decade - two to three years is enough, and the costs are not lower than that.

    Truth? To high ranks, let’s say, assemblers of the CCM will grow in five or more years. And that’s not all. You can immediately see how you "worked."
    For example, how many "transitions" does the Mosin rifle have? And there, accuracy is required in hundredths of a millimeter. Your two-year-old will not do very well.

    Quote: Dart2027
    In fact, if not for two revolutions and GV, then the problem would have been solved even earlier.

    If grandmother had a bolt, then she would be a turner. Yes, and they say in the nose if mushrooms are growing.



    Quote: Dart2027
    Humanities graduates in all countries. And if everything was so bad, then where did the same engineering personnel come from?

    In your opinion there were many? You should start developing the semantic perception of what you read.
  34. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 2 February 2018 16: 28
    0
    Quote: Dart2027
    This is politics, although on the other hand, the Germans had won in the West and would have hit East with all their might. But this does not apply to the combat effectiveness of the army of the Republic of Ingushetia - they fought normally.

    Of course they fought normally, as they knew how, how they taught and how they could. But to win failed.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 2 February 2018 20: 21
      0
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      Truth? For example, GMS collectors will reach high ranks in five or more years.
      Most hard workers are average workers who can be prepared faster.
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      If grandmother had a bolt, then she would be a turner. Yes, and they say in the nose if mushrooms are growing.
      Are you talking about the collapse of the USSR?
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      In your opinion there were many?

      Well, where did the personnel to carry out industrialization come from? You should start developing the semantic perception of what you read.
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      But to win failed.

      Battle of Gumbinnen, Battle of Galicia, Warsaw-Ivangorod Operation, Lodz Operation, Battle of Erzurum
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 13: 16
        0
        Quote: Dart2027
        Battle of Gumbinnen, Battle of Galicia, Warsaw-Ivangorod Operation, Lodz Operation, Battle of Erzurum

        The first - did not play any role at all. The second is the strategic defeat of the RIA (the Austro-Hungarian army was not defeated, that is, the abandoned forces that were not enough in the German sector were wasted). Warsaw-Ivangorodskaya - there was a draw, Lodzinskaya - were already defending (against the smaller enemy forces), Erzurum - well, except that once again they broke the Turks.
  35. Dart2027
    Dart2027 3 February 2018 16: 15
    0
    Quotation: blooded man
    RI mobilized the second after A-B and the king knew perfectly well what this means the mobilization of Germany
    On July 30, partial mobilization began in France. July 31 in the Russian Empire declared general mobilization in the army.
    Quotation: blooded man
    You can certainly defend Stalin. but the order to bring the troops of the Western District into combat readiness had to be given immediately as soon as the Germans began to transfer armies to Poland, which was about a month before the war. Such an order could not be sabotaged for a month.
    As I have already written more than once, the beginning of the war with the USSR before the war in the West was over was a crazy adventure. In addition, orders to increase combat readiness were issued.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 4 February 2018 01: 52
      0
      Quote: Dart2027
      On July 30, partial mobilization began in France. July 31 in the Russian Empire declared general mobilization in the army.

      On the 24th, they ordered mobilization against AB.
      Quote: Dart2027
      As I have already written more than once, the beginning of the war with the USSR before the war in the West was over was a crazy adventure. In addition, orders to increase combat readiness were issued.

      It was necessary to bring the troops of the Western District into combat readiness, and not to increase combat readiness. That is, to occupy defensive lines, prepare airfields, etc. Instead, they watched the Germans concentrate troops on the borders with the USSR for a month.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 4 February 2018 07: 05
        0
        Quotation: blooded man
        On the 24th, they ordered mobilization against AB.

        After the AB began to concentrate troops on the border with the Republic of Ingushetia.
        Quotation: blooded man
        That is, to occupy defensive lines, prepare airfields, etc.

        Too lazy to look, but read several times that back in 1940 an order had been issued to disguise airfields, and when the check began, it turned out that nothing had been done at all.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 4 February 2018 17: 20
          0
          Quote: Dart2027
          After the AB began to concentrate troops on the border with the Republic of Ingushetia.

          She did not bear any threat to RI. it was enough just to bring into combat readiness units that covered the Austro-Russian border.
          Quote: Dart2027
          Too lazy to look, but read several times that back in 1940 an order had been issued to disguise airfields, and when the check began, it turned out that nothing had been done at all.

          It turns out that the military on St ..... r sent Stalin and did not follow his orders? What a great politician he is then, so a small louse.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 4 February 2018 22: 14
            0
            Quotation: blooded man
            it was enough just to bring into combat readiness units that covered the Austro-Russian border.
            And so they did.
            Quotation: blooded man
            It turns out that the military on St ..... r sent Stalin and did not follow his orders?
            The liberal stories that Stalin was so afraid that they didn’t dare to utter exaggeration. Here is one example - in his memoirs, Marshal Golovanov cites an episode when Air Force Commander General P.F.
            https://finbook.news/istoricheskiy-dokument_863/s
            luchay-byil-isklyuchitelnyiy-nem-dolojili-54576.h
            tml
            Or about disarming our fighters just before the war.
            https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/1032448/60
            /Stalin._Bolshaya_kniga_o_nem.html
            And the military conspiracy led by Tukhachevsky was by no means a toy.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 5 February 2018 05: 20
              0
              Quote: Dart2027
              And so they did.

              There was a mobilization, not a reduction of the western district into combat readiness.
              Quote: Dart2027
              The liberal stories that Stalin was so afraid that they didn’t dare to utter exaggeration. Here is one example - in his memoirs, Marshal Golovanov cites an episode when Air Force Commander General P.F.

              Actually, this only confirms my words that Stalin is to blame for the fact that the army at the time of the deployment of the Wehrmacht was not put on alert.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 5 February 2018 10: 16
                0
                Quotation: blooded man
                It was a mobilization, not a Western military alert

                And how else could you increase combat readiness?
                Quotation: blooded man
                confirms my words that Stalin is to blame for the fact that the army at the time of the deployment of the Wehrmacht was not put on alert

                In a way, yes. But it’s one thing if it prevented this, and another when he couldn’t completely destroy all the traitors.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 6 February 2018 03: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  And how else could you increase combat readiness?

                  Usually. Troops are sent to field camps and begin the type of training.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  In a way, yes. But it’s one thing if it prevented this, and another when he couldn’t completely destroy all the traitors.

                  Again around obstacles. It was just necessary to give an order for the army, that’s all, but instead the army lived in peacetime.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 6 February 2018 05: 57
                    0
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    Troops are sent to field camps and begin the type of training.

                    At that time it was believed that the war would be quick and therefore the one who mobilized first would win.
                    Quotation: blooded man
                    You just had to give an order for the army, that's all,

                    Actually, I gave an example of how orders were sabotaged.
  36. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 4 February 2018 13: 12
    0
    Quote: Blue Cop
    Having finished with France and Britain, Germany and Austria would have taken up for us. Plus Turkey.

    Do you think that the Second Reich and the Third Reich are one and the same? This is mistake.
  37. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 5 February 2018 21: 45
    0
    Dart2027,
    And how many more to vocational schools? Seems to be eight years at school.
    Quote: Dart2027
    Yes, the war derailed a lot, and not only in Russia.

    Only the truth is that the Empire collapsed not just swiftly, but enchantingly. Why would you?
  38. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 5 February 2018 21: 49
    0
    Quotation: blooded man
    SO TAKE A PROBLEM OR NOT? Maybe they threw it with corpses?

    Siberian dead companies, standing near the walls of Przemysl (c) Simonov.

    But seriously - after the Austrians caught their breath and reorganized, Przemysl calmly surrendered, having completed the task.

    Quotation: blooded man
    And what was supposed to be a rout? A-vi should have surrendered in the war.


    Ours believed so, taking plan "A".

    Quotation: blooded man
    And by what forces was the Republic of Ingushetia supposed to attack Silesia? What East Prussia is not enough?


    True, the Germans are too serious warriors. So it was better to leave the terrorists to their fate.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 6 February 2018 03: 25
      0
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      But seriously - after the Austrians caught their breath and reorganized, Przemysl calmly surrendered, having completed the task.

      This is your version no more. If RI was ready for war, or at least the sane leadership of the Germans with the Austrians would have fallen ... they would have taken it back. Przemysl is a huge success.
      As I understand it, no one threw corpses at anyone and ours won.
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      Ours believed so, taking plan "A".

      So what's next? Ours believed so, the Austrians thought differently, in reality it turned out to be the third. What joy would AB have to give up after losing Przemysl?
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      True, the Germans are too serious warriors. So it was better to leave the terrorists to their fate.

      I am not your friend. Explain your thoughts in plain language.
  39. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 5 February 2018 21: 51
    0
    Quotation: blooded man
    Where did you get these fake numbers? How did you count them? How did our liberals count the number of Soviet and German tanks before the war?

    Does Oskin give false figures? Nude Nude.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 6 February 2018 03: 27
      0
      Quote: Nukesmoke
      Does Oskin give false figures? Nude Nude.

      If he has such numbers, then surely or is it a simple manipulation of numbers.