Military Review

Brazilian IL-2. Lightweight turboprop attack aircraft Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano

145
If someone believes that the era of screw warplanes is forever in the past, he is mistaken. In Brazil, the aircraft manufacturer Embraer is not so sure. It is here that the EMB 314 Super Tucano light turboprop attack aircraft is produced today, which is in demand on the international arms market and consistently finds its customers. Since 2003, Brazil has already produced more than 240 of such attack aircraft that are used by the 18 Air Force states, while the 99 of the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano light attack aircraft are in service with the Brazilian Air Force.


Speaking of attack aircraft, many immediately recall the Soviet / Russian attack aircraft Su-25 “Grach” or the American A-10 Thunderbolt II “Warthog”, however, for the solution of a number of tasks, the capabilities of these aircraft seem clearly excessive. The lightweight turboprop EMB 314 Super Tucano successfully exists in its own niche, proving that despite the past golden age of assault aviationthat fell on the Second World War, such aircraft are still in demand and do not have to be reactive. The light attack aircraft Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano, also known as the A29 Super Tucano, belongs to the class of counterguerrilla aircraft.

Lightweight turboprop attack aircraft EMB 314 Super Tucano was created by engineers from the Brazilian company Embraer based on a light two-seat turboprop combat-training aircraft EMB 312 Tucano. The development of this combat training aircraft began back in 1978, the first prototype took off in 1980, the aircraft was actively exported from 1984. When looking at these two aircraft their relationship becomes unquestionable, both cars are easily confused.

EMB 314 Super Tucano / A-29B Brazilian Air Force

The EMB 314 Super Tucano is notable for its increased length, enhanced airframe, increased combat load and a more powerful engine, and the cockpit dimensions were also increased for more convenient pilots. In addition, the aircraft received modern avionics and the so-called "glass cabin". The pilot has at his disposal two large liquid crystal displays with an active matrix of size 6 x8 inches. Also, the attack cockpit received protection in the form of Kevlar armor. In the cab can be installed ejection seats Martin-Baker MK-10lCX. On the plane appeared on-board oxygen equipment with a system for generating oxygen, anti-overload suits for pilots and some other improvements, for example, the climate system that ensures the most comfortable work of the crew. And the presence of a modern military autopilot reduces the burden on pilots when performing long-term flights.

The first flight of the EMB 314 Super Tucano prototype took place in the 1999 year, since 2003, the aircraft has been in service with the Brazilian Air Force and is being actively exported. The cost of one aircraft is estimated at 9-14 million dollars. The price is one of the main advantages of the Brazilian light attack aircraft. One aircraft costs much less than helicopters used for the same purpose. For example, the cost of the Russian Mi-35M combat helicopter is more than 36 million dollars. The advantages of attack aircraft also include the possibility of action from any runways, including unpaved airfields. The aircraft can easily change its location. In this case, the machine has not gone away and the functions of a training aircraft. In places of permanent deployment, the lightweight Super Tucano attack aircraft can also be used to carry out training missions, very often the aircraft is used to improve combat skills by jet pilots.

Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano is made according to the normal aerodynamic configuration, it is a low-wing aircraft with a straight wing. The fuselage of a semi-monocoque aircraft. Chassis - tricycle, each landing gear has one wheel. A Pratt & Whitney PT6A-68/3 turboprop engine is used as a power plant, developing a maximum power of 1600 hp. Thanks to this engine, the aircraft can accelerate in flight to 590 km / h.

EMB 314 Super Tucano / A-29A Brazilian Air Force

As noted in the company Embraer, the glider of the aircraft in single and double versions was designed taking into account the latest technologies and automation of design processes. When performing standard training missions, the manufacturer guarantees the aircraft a service life - 18 thousands of hours or 12 thousands of flight hours, depending on the load and tasks solved by the aircraft. The airframe design has reliable corrosion protection and has good strength characteristics. Light attack aircraft can withstand overloads in the range from + 7 to -3,5g.

The aircraft can be used in conditions of high humidity and ambient air temperature; it has very good take-off and landing characteristics, which makes it possible to use it effectively even from short runways. The attack cockpit is protected by Kevlar armor, which provides protection against rifle-rifle armor-piercing bullets - 7,62 mm from 300 meters. Also, according to the manufacturer, the cockpit can withstand a collision with a bird at a speed of 270 knots (500 km / h). In addition to Kevlar armor, the crew and aircraft are also provided by modern information systems: MAWS (Missile Approach Warning System) missile warnings and aircraft radar warnings of the enemy’s RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) missile warnings, attack aircraft, and DPS and IR shooting devices. - traps.

Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano is also known under the designation A-29 Super Tucano (version for the Brazilian Air Force). It exists in two basic versions: the lightweight single A-29A Super Tucano attack aircraft and the double version A-29B Super Tucano. The Brazilian Air Force is armed with an 33 aircraft in version A and 66 in version B, and another 4 aircraft was lost during various accidents.


The shock version of the Super Tucano turboprop aircraft differs from the more common model in that the 400-liter protected fuel tank is installed at the location of the co-pilot, which significantly increases the time the aircraft is in the air, expanding its combat capabilities and increasing the time and patrol range. Single light attack aircraft Super Tucano, according to the assurances of representatives of the company Embraer, can be equipped with equipment that allows it to operate at night. So it turns into a kind of real night fighter, which can be used to intercept light aircraft of drug traffickers and smugglers. The tests have shown that the aircraft can effectively be used to fight the enemy’s helicopters.

The main advantage of the double version of the A-29B Super Tucano, as you might guess, is the second crew member. This is the case when the proverb “one head is good - and two is better,” reveals itself fully. The second member of the attack aircraft crew, acting as a weapon operator and observer pilot, can be very useful in conducting operations that involve a long patrol of the terrain with a subsequent transition to the shock phase.

The EMB 314 Super Tucano light turboprop attack aircraft can carry various types of weapons that can be easily combined depending on the combat missions to be solved. Two large-caliber 12,7-mm FN Herstal M3P machine gun with 200 ammunition per barrel are built into the wing of the aircraft. Also, an 20-mm fast-firing aircraft cannon can be installed under the fuselage of the aircraft, and an additional two 12,7-mm or four 7,62-mm machine guns (500 ammunition cartridges per barrel) can be additionally mounted on the wing wing assemblies.


In total, the aircraft has 5 hard suspension points (one under the fuselage and 4 under the wing). Maximum combat load - 1500 kg. The use of short-range air-to-air guided missiles (AIM-9 class) is possible. It is also possible to use free-fall or adjustable bombs Mk 81 (119 kg to 10 bombs) or Mk 82 (227 kg to 5 bombs). In addition, it is possible to install SBAT-70 / 19 or LAU-68 launch blocks for 70-mm unguided aircraft rockets.

The EMB 314 Super Tucano light attack aircraft was actively used to fight partisans and drug mafia representatives in Colombia. Also in combat conditions, these attack aircraft were used by the Afghan Air Force. There is no information about lost attack aircraft in combat. In addition to the shock functions of the aircraft is often used for reconnaissance and observation of the terrain. For example, in Brazil, this attack aircraft actively participates in the Sistema de Vigilância da Amazônia (SIVAM) program, which is aimed at combating drug trafficking and illegal logging and burning forests in the Amazon jungle.

Flight specifications EMB 314 Super Tucano:
Overall dimensions: length - 11,3 m, height - 3,97 m, wing span - 11,14 m, wing area - 19,4 m2.
Empty weight - 3200 kg.
Maximum take-off weight - 5200 kg.
The power plant is a Pratt & Whitney PT6A-68/3 theater with a capacity of 1600 hp.
The maximum speed is 590 km / h.
Cruising speed - 520 km / h.
Stalling speed - 148 km / h.
Practical range - 1330 km.
Ferry range - 2850 km.
Combat radius of action - 550 km (with a full combat load 1500 kg).
Practical ceiling - 10 670 m.
Gun-guns - 2x12,7-mm machine gun in the wing, you can additionally install a 20-mm gun under the fuselage or another 2x12,7-mm / 4X7,62-mm machine gun on the wing nodes of the suspension
Combat load - up to 1500 kg on 5 suspension units, including air-to-air UR, or free-fall and adjustable bombs, or 70-mm NAR.
Crew - 1-2 person.

EMB 314 Super Tucano renders from embraerds.com










Information sources:
http://alternathistory.com/mustang-vozvrashchaetsya
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other/stucano.html
http://www.embraerds.com/super_tucano.html
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  1. Strashila
    Strashila 29 January 2018 07: 09
    +8
    Demanded machines ... from the series cheap and cheerful ... speed ... ceiling ... weapons. For the border service and the Russian Guard itself.
    1. Safevi
      Safevi 29 January 2018 10: 16
      +7
      Great car. It can easily replace attack helicopters. It is not only 3 times cheaper than an attack helicopter, but also the operation is much cheaper. And the ability to hang is important only for landing helicopters.
      1. zyzx
        zyzx 29 January 2018 13: 40
        +4
        And the men do not even know! Now tell me how this miracle behind the hill will make the ambush delatte?
        1. AlexanderBrv
          AlexanderBrv 29 January 2018 20: 27
          +5
          [b] [/ b] Definitely - this is not a competitor to a combat helicopter!
    2. svp67
      svp67 29 January 2018 12: 22
      +3
      Quote: Strashila
      Demanded machines ... from the series cheap and cheerful ... speed ... ceiling ... weapons. For the border service and the Russian Guard itself.

      As soon as the enemy receives a due amount of modern MANPADS capable of shooting down on a collision course, the era of this attack aircraft will fall under the slope ...
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 29 January 2018 12: 46
        +3
        And why the ability to shoot down on a collision course? He is very subsonic.
        And the thermal signature is weak.
        1. svp67
          svp67 29 January 2018 13: 07
          +7
          Quote: Simargl
          And why the ability to shoot down on a collision course? He is very subsonic.
          And the thermal signature is weak.

          They have that engine, that the radiator perfectly "glow in the front hemisphere." And on the oncoming ones, that would bring down until the moment of using weapons
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 29 January 2018 15: 53
            +3
            Quote: svp67
            They have that engine, that the radiator is excellent
            Radiator of what? Turbines? A theater of operations, and even less than 1,5 MW, is a heavy target for the GOS MANPADS
            1. svp67
              svp67 29 January 2018 16: 23
              +2
              Quote: Simargl
              Radiator of what? Turbines? TVD,

              OIL. Any equipment has a radiator, there is no water cooling, but there is always an oil system, the oil of which requires cooling.
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 29 January 2018 16: 39
                +5
                Quote: svp67
                Any equipment has a radiator, there is no water cooling, but there is always an oil system, the oil of which requires cooling.

                In fairness it should be said that the thermal visibility of the A-29 at a higher flight speed is substantially less than that of the Cobra or the Apache.
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Bongo

                  In fairness it should be said that the thermal visibility of the A-29 at a higher flight speed is substantially less than that of the Cobra or the Apache.


                  What's the difference? If the exhaust of the theater in 1500 l / s is more than enough for MANPADS.
              2. Simargl
                Simargl 29 January 2018 17: 41
                +3
                Quote: svp67
                OIL. Any equipment has a radiator
                How be ... Ka Can you imagine that?
                Radiator under the hoods.
                The hottest there is the exhaust. Judging by the condition of the case - there is already under the lamp a temperature below 80 degrees. This is actually very small.
                1,5 MW scattered on 2 sides, and even dissipates well ...
                So what we have:
                1 - two exhausts of 750 kW from the turbine (at a cut of about 600-700 degrees),
                2 - a fan that actively mixes air into the exhaust,
                3 - speed from 100 m / s, which contributes to a drop in exhaust temperature.
                Book it a bit and can not open MANPADS.
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 20
                  +1
                  Quote: Simargl

                  2 - a fan that actively mixes air into the exhaust,
                  3 - speed from 100 m / s, which contributes to a drop in exhaust temperature.


                  Sorry, but this is nonsense. No one cares about the temperature of the exhaust gas there further. The temperature is solely important at the outlet of the pipes, and indeed themselves.
                  And in this case, no EVU on the Brazilian is noticeable. So it shines beautifully in all hemispheres.
                  1. Simargl
                    Simargl 29 January 2018 21: 32
                    +2
                    Those. area and intensity is no longer important? But I'm not talking about power for nothing.
                    The “hot” AN-26 was not knocked down the first time, but the exhaust is almost 3 times more energetic there!
                    1. shuravi
                      shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: shuravi
                      those. area and intensity is no longer important? But I'm not talking about power for nothing.

                      The area of ​​the pipes is quite sufficient. And the intensity there is maximum.
              3. Avis-bis
                Avis-bis 3 March 2018 15: 10
                +5
                Quote: svp67

                OIL. Any equipment has a radiator, there is no water cooling, but there is always an oil system, the oil of which requires cooling.

                Normal design bureaus have long forgotten about air-oil radiators, like a nightmare. On the PT-6, as on the vast majority of modern engines, there is a fuel-oil radiator, where the oil is cooled by kerosene, which goes to the engine.
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 29 January 2018 12: 47
        +9
        Quote: svp67
        As soon as the enemy receives a due amount of modern MANPADS capable of shooting down on a collision course, the era of this attack aircraft will fall under the slope ...

        Sorry, but you didn’t think that turboprop attack aircraft in general, and A-29 in particular, mean approximately two higher maximum flight speeds, better vertical maneuverability, lower thermal visibility and the absence of a rotor and tail boom with a tail rotor are much less vulnerable than combat helicopters? But you don’t offer to give up attack helicopters.
        In general, the publication is weak, about this machine, you can write a lot of things including about the use of combat.
        1. svp67
          svp67 29 January 2018 13: 09
          +3
          Quote: Bongo
          But you do not offer to give up attack helicopters.

          The attack helicopter is now actually a PLATFORM, for delivering missiles to a safe distance for launching against the enemy and its ability to maneuver is significantly higher than that of any aircraft.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 29 January 2018 13: 48
            +5
            Quote: svp67
            The attack helicopter is now actually a PLATFORM, for delivering missiles to a safe distance for launching against the enemy and its ability to maneuver is significantly higher than that of any aircraft.

            Oh well, I did not know that ... wassat Maneuvering, at what speed and height? How many helicopters can perform barrels and dead loops? Let's imagine that Supertuccano and Apache met in the sky. Do you think anyone has a better chance of air combat, and why?
            I apologize for the sarcasm, but ask about the history of the use of А-29 - this is a much larger "platform" than any helicopter.
            1. svp67
              svp67 29 January 2018 14: 20
              +2
              Quote: Bongo
              How many helicopters are capable of carrying barrels and dead loops?

              Do you think that a “barrel” or a “dead loop” will save this attack aircraft from a rocket? And how many planes can hover and make vertical takeoffs and landings, and even with the engine idle
              Quote: Bongo
              Let’s imagine that “Supertukano” and “Apache” met in the sky. Who do you think has a better chance of aerial combat, and why?

              Judging by the history of encounters in the battle of aircraft and combat helicopters - the chances of 50 on 50, a lot depends on luck and skill.
              Quote: Bongo
              I apologize for the sarcasm, but ask about the history of the use of А-29 - this is a much larger "platform" than any helicopter.

              And what is your sarcasm? Do you rate the prospects of the "screw attack" so low?
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 31
                +5
                Quote: svp67
                Do you think that the "barrel" or "dead loop" will save this attack aircraft from a rocket?

                Combat use statistics speaks for itself. It’s perfectly clear that a combat helicopter, when it encounters a Tukan class turboprop combat aircraft, can only defensive the battle. And in order to understand this you don’t have to be an expert, you just have to compare the vertical rate of climb, the angular speed of the turn and the maximum speed of flight.
                Quote: svp67
                And how many planes can hang and make vertical take-offs and landings, and even with the engine off

                How often have you seen the Mi-24 doing these maneuvers in a combat situation?
                Quote: svp67
                Judging by the history of encounters in the battle of aircraft and combat helicopters - the chances of 50 on 50, a lot depends on luck and skill.

                I, as probably you were taught to answer for their words. And you probably have grounds for such statements, in the form of reliable statistics of air battles between combat helicopters and airplanes?
                Quote: svp67
                You are so low assess the prospects of "helical attack aircraft"?

                And maybe all the same statistics take the interest of the use of combat. After all, practice is the criterion of truth.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 29 January 2018 14: 55
                  +2
                  Quote: Bongo
                  can only conduct a defensive battle.

                  But this does not prevent combat helicopters from shooting down their opponents, since the present weapon allows them to.
                  Quote: Bongo
                  just compare the vertical climb,

                  And you compare the possibilities for vertical maneuver, especially on the opposite courses ... Turntables are not so easy targets, moreover, it can fly sideways and fire ...
                  Quote: Bongo
                  How often have you seen the Mi-24 doing these maneuvers in a combat situation?

                  I didn’t see "helicopter - plane" air battles, but I read about them
                  Quote: Bongo
                  And you probably have reason for such statements, in the form of reliable statistics of air battles between combat helicopters and airplanes?

                  Of part of them, of course, and judging by them, in many respects everything depends on luck and provision. Who was the first to notice, who was the first to take advantage of their advantages, who knows better technology, he won. No one has 100% advantage
                  Quote: Bongo
                  And maybe all the same statistics take the interest of the use of combat. After all, practice is the criterion of truth.

                  You have tried so much in the matter of covering the topic of the combat use of helicopters, that I somehow don’t want to get involved with you in this discussion, you yourself know perfectly the answer to all the questions.
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 29 January 2018 15: 04
                    +4
                    Quote: svp67
                    You have tried so much in the matter of covering the topic of the combat use of helicopters, that I somehow don’t want to get involved with you in this discussion, you yourself know perfectly the answer to all the questions.

                    Thank you But, as regards the “Tukan class”, I am much better informed. And believe me, in wars of "low intensity", or when conducting "anti-terrorist operations," turboprop attack aircraft are in many ways preferable to combat helicopters. As for the air combat with a helicopter, with equal training of pilots and the same weapon, most of the victories will be precisely for the light combat aircraft. hi
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 29 January 2018 15: 12
                      +1
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Thank you!

                      Just pay tribute.
                      Quote: Bongo
                      And believe me, in wars of "low intensity", or during "antiterrorist operations", turboprop attack aircraft are in many ways preferable to combat helicopters.

                      Again I do not agree. Especially in relation to the likes of our Mi-24, which can not only storm, but also drop off and pick up troops. But to replace the "classic" and expensive modern attack aircraft, yes, but again, until the enemy has the proper amount of effective anti-aircraft weapons. Our Afghanistan showed that in this case it happens with airplanes, they are forced to go to an unattainable height, and here I more like the "gunship" based on the transporter than such an "attack aircraft"
                      Quote: Bongo
                      As for the air battle with a helicopter, with equal training of pilots and the same weapons, most of the victories will be for a light combat aircraft.

                      I think that only time and combat experience will show who is right in this dispute. I don’t refuse my 50-50 assessment. Odds are equal on both sides.
                      1. Bongo
                        Bongo 29 January 2018 15: 33
                        +3
                        Quote: svp67
                        Again, I do not agree. Especially with respect to our similar Mi-24, which can not only skitturmovat, but also land the landing and pick up.

                        And how often Mi-24 landed landings? Or at least hang out at all in combat conditions?
                        Quote: svp67
                        But to replace the "classic" and expensive modern attack aircraft, yes, yes, but again, before the enemy has the right amount of effective anti-aircraft weapons. Our Afghanistan has shown that in this case it happens with airplanes, they are forced to go to an inaccessible height, and here I like "ganship" on the basis of a transport worker more than such an attack aircraft

                        Since the withdrawal of the "limited contingent" almost 30 years have passed. During this time, not only the means of destruction but the avionics of airplanes and helicopters have changed. Repeat modern turboprop engines can be very effective against all sorts of insurgents, and in the air they can successfully fight UAVs and combat helicopters. On the head, surpassing the latter in rate of climb, steady speed of turn, and maximum speed of flight.
                        Quote: svp67
                        I do not refuse my assessment of 50 on 50. Chances are equal on both sides.

                        Your right, but objectively it is not subject to anything. A-29 very well established itself as a light aircraft interceptor during a number of special operations on the Amazon delta. Simulation and training air battles demonstrated the total superiority of the Supertuccano in aerial combat over combat helicopters. At the same time, the cost of operating the A-29 is several times lower.
                    2. avt
                      avt 29 January 2018 15: 32
                      +2
                      Quote: Bongo
                      As for the air battle with a helicopter, with equal training of pilots and the same weapons, most of the victories will be for a light combat aircraft.

                      wassat Why fright? Not, of course, if you force them to maneuver classically according to the “plane” .... There was such a case - the uss were impudent on the border with the GDR, “Cobra,” well, they would jump a couple of meters and back across the border. They decided to prevent the Mi-24 from letting the pier maneuver in parallel. As a result, the heavier and less maneuverable Mi flew into the ground. True, after us, the provocations ceased. If you use the advantages of the turntable at horizontal speeds, especially the coaxial scheme, not the fact that
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Tukanoklassa,

                      there will be an easy fight. Indirect confirmation is the real battles of the Harriers with the Argentinean Kefirs and the Skyhawks. The Argentinean Pukkars on the islands didn’t make a big deal about the landed troops with their available MANPADS, and it’s kind of heavier there than Rapiers it seems there wasn’t. Well, if memory doesn’t fail over the years ago. What am I for? Yes, Pushkin is our everything, - wouldn’t you chase pop for cheapness? bully And whether it will be cheap, well, cost - efficiency. It is still necessary not only to deduce empirically. It is not just a plane to buy and flew. request
                      1. Bongo
                        Bongo 29 January 2018 16: 05
                        +3
                        Quote: avt
                        With a fright?

                        Are we talking about an air battle of a helicopter with a Tukanlass class turboprop, or not?
                        Quote: avt
                        An indirect confirmation is the real fights of ,, Harriers "with Argentinean" Kefirs "and" Skyhawks ".

                        wassat And there is no more correct example?
                        Damn, I will not even argue. I'm tired. recourse It seems that technical articles, including where specific characteristics, examples and conditions for the combat use of light turboprop aircraft are considered, are written into void.
                        Quote: avt
                        Yes, and the Argentine ,, Pukkars "on the islands were not very fast on landings with the troops they had MANPADS, and there seems harder,Rapier"it was not like.


                        PU ZRK Rapier
                        It is difficult to call this complex "portable."
                        British MANPADS
                        British anti-aircraft missile systems
                        hi
                      2. shuravi
                        shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 52
                        0
                        [quote = avt] [quote = Bongo] There was such a case - the uss were impudent on the border with the German Democratic Republic, “Cobra”, well, they would jump a couple of meters and back across the border. They decided to stop them from letting the Mi-24 let them maneuver in parallel. It’s over the result is that a heavier and less maneuverable Mi flew into the ground. [/ quote]

                        This is all not true. The reason was completely different. Just taking advantage of the maneuverability of the Mi-24, the Soviet pilot began to impose a piloting style. But then he made a mistake near the ground. But even such a demonstration was enough for the Americans.
                2. shuravi
                  shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Bongo

                  Combat use statistics speaks for itself. It’s perfectly clear that a combat helicopter, when it encounters a Tukan class turboprop combat aircraft, can only defensive the battle. And to understand this, you don’t need to be a specialist, just compare the vertical rate of climb, the angular speed of the turn and the maximum speed of flight. .


                  Air battles of the PMV type are long gone. So no one will spin the carousel. Who first discovered, he won. Despite the fact that the helicopter has much more long-range weapons than a light attack aircraft.
            2. shuravi
              shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 24
              0
              Quote: Bongo
              Let’s imagine that “Supertukano” and “Apache” met in the sky. Who do you think has a better chance of aerial combat, and why?


              The one who earlier discovers the enemy. Here is the advantage for the AN-64. Like any combat helicopter, it flies below the plane. And to search for targets against the sky is much easier than against the background of the earth.
            3. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 30 January 2018 10: 25
              +1
              Quote: Bongo
              Let’s imagine that “Supertukano” and “Apache” met in the sky.

              It’s a little strange to see how graceful men))) lead the classic dialogue “whale or elephant”.
              It is obvious that in the proposed situation the carcass does not shine - long before meeting with the Apache, he will receive greetings from the penguin. Attack helicopters are a fairly advanced and expensive tool for armies, in which normal planes, as a rule, are already there (although in Africa everything that happens to get it flies on that).
              At the same time, if we consider the number of hydra per dollar of costs, then agricultural planes are beyond competition both in terms of purchase cost and hour cost. Especially if you put in it not a golden American pilot, but a civilian from Eastern Europe. In Africa, they say, this happens often. When drones can force them out - the question is not the current five-year plan. So far, only large uncles can overpower shock drones.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 29 January 2018 19: 13
            +5
            Quote: svp67
            The attack helicopter is now actually a PLATFORM, for delivering missiles to a safe distance for launching against the enemy and its ability to maneuver is significantly higher than that of any aircraft.

            Well, piston or turboprop lightweight "counterguerry" is also a "platform". Which, unlike a helicopter, may well be on duty in the air. For a helicopter, this is not economically impractical.
            Helicopters have to be placed on duty at “jumping platforms”, which is not always possible and not always safe.

            Well, if you look at the conditions of Brazil, where the territory is huge, and there are few possible sites for placement of "disturbing helicopters," there is only one conclusion ...

            And shock UAVs do not solve the problem at all. Until the moment when the operator will have the same situational awareness as the pilot of a light aircraft, it is still very, very far.
            1. svp67
              svp67 29 January 2018 19: 21
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Well

              All the arguments correspond to the current state of things, but not the fact that tomorrow they can change dramatically.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 29 January 2018 19: 36
                +6
                Quote: svp67
                All the arguments correspond to the current state of things, but not the fact that tomorrow they can change dramatically.

                They are already changing. There are statistics on flight hours during the "counter-terrorism" below. As they say, counted, shed tears.

                And such machines as the "Tsesna Combat Caravan" proved to be excellent, and were very cheap to use. So, most likely, the number of such aircraft in the near future will increase.

                There is another question. Will they go along the path of building specialized counterguerrilla attack aircraft, which is beneficial for industrialists. Or along the way of creating kits that allow the use of guided weapons from light transport aircraft, which is more profitable for the military.

                1. svp67
                  svp67 29 January 2018 19: 40
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  And such machines as the "Tsesna Combat Caravan" proved to be excellent, and were very cheap to use.

                  I can hardly imagine the work of these "whatnots" in the same Syria ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 29 January 2018 19: 43
                    +3
                    Quote: svp67
                    I can hardly imagine the work of these "whatnots" in the same Syria ...

                    In Iraq, it was they who carried the main burden on the aviation defeat of ISIS units before the United States and the contingent intervened in the topic.
                    "Helfaers" in the variant with LGSN hundreds left.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 29 January 2018 19: 47
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      before the United States and the slavery did not intervene in the topic.

                      You repeated my argument. These "whatnots" are effective, until the enemy has good air defense, after which their fate, mail is transported in the frontline
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 29 January 2018 19: 56
                        +5
                        Quote: svp67
                        These "whatnots" are effective, until the enemy has good air defense

                        What "good air defense" do partisans have? MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and automatic guns, theoretically available to the “fighters for mopping up” these “Shelves” are not threatened, “Helfaer” has a range of up to 11 km at the moment.
            2. shuravi
              shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 26
              0
              Quote: Spade

              Well, piston or turboprop lightweight "counterguerry" is also a "platform". Which, unlike a helicopter, may well be on duty in the air. For a helicopter, this is not economically impractical.
              Helicopters have to be placed on duty at “jumping platforms”, which is not always possible and not always safe.


              Here it is necessary, but we did not know, and all of Afghanistan were engaged in air duty. laughing
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 29 January 2018 21: 47
                +4
                Quote: shuravi
                Here it is necessary, but we did not know, and all of Afghanistan were engaged in air duty.

                Here I am about that. So the Union fell apart. There was nowhere to put money. At the same time, they saved on what it was not worth saving on. For example, on soldier’s boots

                On the other hand, there were branches in the USSR that were financed on a residual basis, and they already saved there. For example, the Ministry of Forestry. There, on duty in the air of the groups of the parachute fire service, An-2 was used. And the groups of the airborne fire service in helicopters sat on the jumping platforms, where they were nominated for the season. And they worked exclusively on call, strengthening paratroopers if necessary.
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 29 January 2018 23: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Quote: shuravi
                  Here it is necessary, but we did not know, and all of Afghanistan were engaged in air duty.

                  Here I am about that. So the Union fell apart. There was nowhere to put money. At the same time, they saved on what it was not worth saving on. For example, on soldier’s boots

                  On the other hand, there were branches in the USSR that were financed on a residual basis, and they already saved there. For example, the Ministry of Forestry. There, on duty in the air of the groups of the parachute fire service, An-2 was used. And the groups of the airborne fire service in helicopters sat on the jumping platforms, where they were nominated for the season. And they worked exclusively on call, strengthening paratroopers if necessary.



                  You are once again not in the subject.
                  First of all. The USSR did not fall apart, it was destroyed.
                  Secondly, the duty of combat helicopters in the air made it possible to "save" the lives of soldiers very well.

                  But one thing is clear, aviation is clearly not your topic. hi
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 29 January 2018 23: 38
                    +5
                    Quote: shuravi
                    Secondly, the duty of combat helicopters in the air made it possible to "save" the lives of soldiers very well.

                    Yeah ...
                    "I will not save on the lives of soldiers and instead of ten stretchers I will buy one with gilt handles"

                    By the way, how many drove carpenters died to ensure the Mi-24 was on duty in the air?
                    1. shuravi
                      shuravi 30 January 2018 00: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Spade

                      "I will not save on the lives of soldiers and instead of ten stretchers I will buy one with gilt handles"


                      Your knowledge of the service does not go beyond the stretcher? Clear.

                      By the way, how many drove carpenters died to ensure the Mi-24 was on duty in the air?


                      In bulk they carried fuel for the ground forces. Kerosene walked through the air. In many cases, gasoline, diesel, too.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 January 2018 09: 55
                        +3
                        Quote: shuravi
                        Your knowledge of the service does not go beyond the stretcher? Clear.

                        But are there really no objections? It's fine.

                        Quote: shuravi
                        In bulk they carried fuel for the ground forces. Kerosene walked through the air.

                        Yeah ... Aviation transported up to 9 thousand tons of fuel per year. Total fuel.
                        At the same time, aviation consumed annually from 130.9 (1980 year) to 291.6 (1986 year) thousand tons of fuel per year.
                        At the same time, during the entire existence of the group of Soviet troops in Afghanistan, aviation consumed more fuel than ground troops. For example, 85 year. 481 thousand tons in total, including 271.3 jet fuel. Apparently, the duty of helicopters in the air was bearing fruit ...
                        Figures are from the serious monograph "Logistic support of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by A. Meitin and A. Turkov
        2. novel66
          novel66 29 January 2018 14: 01
          +2
          Sergei hi I think the theme of screw combat aircraft is far from over. cook feathers and paper!
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 33
            +3
            Quote: novel xnumx
            I think the theme of screw combat aircraft is far from over. cook feathers and paper!

            Roman, I have written on this subject more than once, and in great detail. hi
          2. svp67
            svp67 29 January 2018 14: 57
            0
            Quote: novel xnumx
            Sergey thinks to me, the topic of screw combat aircraft is far from over. cook feathers and paper!

            hi Alas, but I believe that in this form, this is their “swan song” and very soon they will be finally crowded out by the UAV.
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 29 January 2018 15: 36
              +4
              Quote: svp67
              Alas, but I believe that in this form, this is their “swan song” and very soon they will be finally crowded out by the UAV.

              How many countries can afford really effective shock and reconnaissance UAVs? No. The market of turboprop attack aircraft is developing very dynamically, as evidenced by the variety of models offered and the great interest on the part of customers. hi
              1. svp67
                svp67 29 January 2018 15: 53
                0
                Quote: Bongo
                How many countries can afford really effective shock and reconnaissance UAVs?

                And you compare the dynamics of its development.
                Quote: Bongo
                The market of turboprop attack aircraft is developing very dynamically, as evidenced by the variety of models offered and the great interest on the part of customers.

                Here you can safely insert the word "good bye". It is BYE growing, but I repeat once again that when the enemy has enough air defense weapons, that MANPADS, that MZA, then interest in these vehicles will immediately fall
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 29 January 2018 16: 19
                  +6
                  Quote: svp67
                  Here you can safely insert the word "good bye". It is BYE growing, but I repeat once again that when the enemy has enough air defense weapons, that MANPADS, that MZA, then interest in these vehicles will immediately fall

                  What existing MANPADS can operate at night, i.e. equipped with thermal imagers capable of conducting a search for a target at the launch distance? And what MANPADS has a ceiling height of more than 4 km? The probability of hitting a single target from a ZU-23 installation flying at a speed of more than 700 km / h is 0,02. Well, about the range of effective fire, you probably know.
                  I skidochki there about "Tukanclass" and "Fighting Agricultural" left. Do not take the trouble to read. hi
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 29 January 2018 16: 26
                    +1
                    Quote: Bongo
                    And which MANPADS has a ceiling height of more than 4 km?

                    And what will be the efficiency of the STORMER at such a height, it is better to "ganship"
                    Quote: Bongo
                    The probability of defeating a single target flying at a speed of more than 23 km / h during the day from the ZU-700 installation is 0,02. Well, about the range of effective fire, you probably know.

                    Nevertheless, the MZA both were and have remained a very effective tool against attack aircraft.
                    1. Bongo
                      Bongo 29 January 2018 16: 49
                      +5
                      Quote: svp67
                      And what will be the efficiency of the STORMER at such a height, it is better to "ganship"

                      Examples of combat use are available. I indicated the source of information. Do many countries afford "ganships"? No. Moreover, the newest American gunships MC-130W Combat Spear and MC-130J Commando II armed with an 30-mm cannon focus on the use of 113,5 kg GBU-39 or compact 20 kg guided GBU-44 / B Viper Strike bombs and AGM missiles -176 Griffin or AGM-114 Hellfire.
                      Ganships are back? (clickable) hi
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 29 January 2018 17: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Bongo
                        How many countries can afford ganships

                        And here we must assume that a dozen such attack aircraft or one "ganship" are cheaper. Everyone has their own answer to this question.
                      2. novel66
                        novel66 30 January 2018 09: 41
                        0
                        thanks for the article, one thing - isn’t 2 not dc-3?
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 January 2018 13: 09
        +5
        And it’s better to buy an old 3rd generation fighter jet. He frolic to the core, exterminating helical attack aircraft. And this was the case in Africa, when one country acquired a helicopter attack aircraft, and another hired a jet fighter.
        1. svp67
          svp67 29 January 2018 13: 17
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And it’s better to buy an old 3rd generation fighter jet.

          And why the third? Something seems to me that the first will come down. I even know a country that is ready to sell more than a dozen MiG-15 and MiG-17, these are real "soldiers of the sky"
      4. meandr51
        meandr51 31 January 2018 09: 31
        0
        A jet attack aircraft than the better from him? Are they unbreakable? The speed over the battlefield is approximately the same for all of them: 300-400 km / h.
    3. max702
      max702 29 January 2018 13: 01
      +2
      It seems like the SU-25 costs 10-15 million dollars .. and how to compare these aircraft? if a toucan cost 3-5 million then yes, but because of all the "stuffing" this is impossible ... and since the price is the same with incomparable characteristics, then what is it for? There is only one answer Brazil is not able to do something like the SU-25 ...
      1. Safevi
        Safevi 29 January 2018 13: 42
        +6
        "Brazil is not able to do something like the SU-25."
        Well yes laughing The country producing the Embraers will not be able to master a simple airplane? laughing
        1. max702
          max702 29 January 2018 14: 07
          +4
          And tell us what in these "Embraers" native Brazilian? Really developed by Brazil, not licensed, or made to order in other countries? I’m afraid that there is nothing .. And this is why the SU-25 analogue doesn’t exist because it’s a military technology that nobody really wants to give, all that worked is a propeller-driven airplane alya BOB from modern parts and components bought all over the world ...
    4. Max von adelheid
      Max von adelheid 29 January 2018 14: 30
      +1
      We all forgot about the CPV ... and the NSV also forgot ... Well, nothing to us for 2km. do not shoot... repeat
  2. shinobi
    shinobi 29 January 2018 08: 06
    +4
    A good machine. Partisans really are different, they can shy away with a stinger, but yes
    1. Graz
      Graz 29 January 2018 10: 18
      +2
      the old Soviet zsu 23-2 is enough for this pelvis
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 January 2018 10: 52
        +3
        and, type, DShK not enough?
      2. meandr51
        meandr51 31 January 2018 09: 32
        0
        Enough for anyone.
    2. Safevi
      Safevi 29 January 2018 10: 21
      +5
      Stingers will overwhelm and attack helicopter, and even a full-fledged aircraft on occasion.
    3. Bongo
      Bongo 29 January 2018 12: 53
      +8
      Quote: shinobi
      The guerrillas really are different, they can shingle and stinger, but yes

      Quote: Graz
      the old Soviet zsu 23-2 is enough for this pelvis

      I'm probably not in the subject, but here people gathered exclusively knowledgeable. request Will anyone remind me when the extreme A-29 was hit by MANPADS, or lost from the fire impact of the enemy? You can bring down anything, but with proper tactics, the vulnerability of turboprop machines is minimal. In addition, MANPADS do not lie under each fence, and for their use requires certain skills and knowledge.
      Quote: novel xnumx
      and, type, DShK not enough?

      It is not very easy to get from DShK even to an educational target like a parachute flare.
      Roman, you might be interested in this:"Toucan class" (clickable) hi
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 January 2018 13: 15
        +6
        These attack aircraft have no radar or target pylons. To hit a ground target, they need at least two approaches: 1-th - Target detection (visual), 2-th - target fire.
        Here on the second one they catch a MANPADS missile. Because, after the first call, the MANPADS operator knows exactly what will be the second.
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 30 January 2018 03: 47
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          These attack aircraft have no radar or target pylons. To hit a ground target, they need at least two approaches: 1-th - Target detection (visual), 2-th - target fire.

          It feels like you are writing about WWII airplanes. Take an interest in the composition of equipment, weapons and capabilities "Supertukano."
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 January 2018 11: 18
            +1
            Looked ... our Elbit, of course, filled avionics in Tucano
            several million dollars, which increases it
            attacking capabilities. But defensive - almost at zero.
            Send 2 pilots in such a toy to military operations ... recourse
            you need to have many pilots in stock.
            Militants and partisans are now very "advanced." And buy
            weapons against all kinds of threats very quickly.
      2. novel66
        novel66 29 January 2018 15: 13
        +2
        Thanks, I clicked once in due time
  3. Monar
    Monar 29 January 2018 08: 09
    +3
    Well, again, heavy machine guns as air defense will be in demand.
  4. captain
    captain 29 January 2018 09: 23
    +1
    Cheap and cheerful. You won’t shoot sparrows from the cannon, but here it’s just right.
    1. Graz
      Graz 29 January 2018 10: 19
      +3
      9-14 million dollars cheap?
    2. Graz
      Graz 29 January 2018 10: 28
      +8
      by the way now looked written
      The Federal Security Service (FSB) of Russia has announced a tender for the supply of five Mi-35 helicopters for state needs, the initial (maximum) price of the state contract is 2,83 billion rubles. The corresponding application is posted on the government procurement portal, RIA Novosti reports. Helicopters must be delivered by December 10, 2017 to Stavropol.
      The cost of one unit of equipment is estimated at almost 556,6 million rubles., It follows from the materials for the tender.
      that is, for internal use, the Mi-35M = 10 million dollars, it seems that export is not much more expensive, so the price is comparable to this under-attack aircraft, about the fact that it’s more useful on the battlefield to break spears for a long time
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 29 January 2018 11: 55
        +2
        To be honest ... what kind of bidding can be ... if the manufacturer ... in the singular ... purely show off ... like everything is by law. Kills the senility of legislation.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  5. 11 black
    11 black 29 January 2018 09: 31
    +4
    The car is certainly interesting - only with the Il-Xnumx, the legendary aircraft, it is not worth comparing. Ours, if necessary, can create something similar on the basis of the Yak-2, I think. Is it only needed when there are drones?
    1. san4es
      san4es 29 January 2018 09: 48
      0
      Quote: 11 black
      ... with IL-2, a legendary airplane, it is not worth comparing.

      ... Yeah, more "Junkers-87" recalls
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 January 2018 09: 56
        +1
        The Junkers are also a wave of legend ... neither Il, nor the Junkers, in the absence of dominance in the sky, suffered enormous losses.
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 29 January 2018 13: 55
        +4
        Quote: san4es
        Yeah, more "Junkers-87" reminds

        Here this car really reminds.

        More details here: Combat Agricultural Aviation (clickable)
  6. san4es
    san4es 29 January 2018 09: 52
    0
    ejection seats Martin-Baker can be installed


    ... It seems like a new test attack aircraft (instead of the A-10 ThunderBolt).
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 29 January 2018 09: 54
    0
    It is quite possible to make a device with TV3-117 (or VK-2500) such a device. Su-25s are not manufactured and their age is not very long. About 20-25 years will still serve.
  8. Misak Hananyan
    Misak Hananyan 29 January 2018 10: 39
    +4
    information
  9. Misak Hananyan
    Misak Hananyan 29 January 2018 10: 42
    +4
    The cost of flight hours of American aircraft involved in the Middle East.
  10. Old26
    Old26 29 January 2018 10: 42
    +7
    Quote: shinobi
    A good machine. Partisans really are different, they can shy away with a stinger, but yes

    To date, all "Super Tucano" have flown about 110 hours, of which 000 were in combat. None of the cars were hit by fire from the ground
    1. novel66
      novel66 29 January 2018 10: 55
      +5
      probably it rather indicates the absence of any opposition
      1. Pan_hrabio
        Pan_hrabio 29 January 2018 13: 40
        +1
        Of course. But, as practice has shown, there are enough tasks when serious opposition is not expected, so the plane has its own niche.

        Actually, the developers themselves all perfectly understand:

        According to the developers, the main purpose of the “Tukano” was to be the training of pilots, as well as the use as a light attack aircraft and patrol aircraft in “counterguerrilla” operations in the absence of opposition from fighters and modern air defense systems.


        https://topwar.ru/96842-tukanoklass.html
        1. novel66
          novel66 29 January 2018 14: 02
          0
          here you can not argue request
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 42
            +4
            Quote: novel xnumx
            here you can not argue

            The novel, modern turboprop light attack aircraft are increasingly becoming platforms for high-precision weapons. In the case of anti-aircraft resistance, they use weapons without entering the air defense zone. The same A-29 has a very sophisticated avionics in the form of day and night sighting and viewing systems, and even the radar type container.
            1. novel66
              novel66 29 January 2018 14: 52
              0
              but against any suitable fighter - will it be crap?
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 54
                +1
                Quote: novel xnumx
                but against any suitable fighter - will it be crap?

                And the helicopter?
                1. novel66
                  novel66 29 January 2018 14: 57
                  0
                  I heard a baidu somewhere that, due to the hovering mode, a helicopter could somehow dodge fighter attacks
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 29 January 2018 15: 39
                    +2
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    I heard a baidu somewhere that, due to the hovering mode, a helicopter could somehow dodge fighter attacks

                    Roman, how does this relate to the Mi-24? Even if it were possible - the loss of speed in air combat is death!
                  2. shuravi
                    shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 47
                    0
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    I heard a baidu somewhere that, due to the hovering mode, a helicopter could somehow dodge fighter attacks

                    That's nonsense. Decrease enough on PMV.
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 30 January 2018 07: 14
                      0
                      sorry, I do not know PMV - what is this?
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 30 January 2018 11: 42
                        +3
                        Extremely low height
                      2. shuravi
                        shuravi 30 January 2018 22: 44
                        0
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        sorry, I do not know PMV - what is this?



                        This is when the view from the side is about this.))

  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 January 2018 13: 03
    +4
    Somehow it was in Africa, one of the countries (I do not remember the name) acquired similar aircraft.
    To wet the partisans who were getting from another country. They moistened successfully until the second country, which did not have its own air force, asked (for little money) a little bit of help from a neighbor.
    And here a couple of old Mirage playfully, in a few days, like flies, interrupted almost all such stormtroopers. The rest never rose from the airfield.
    This is all you need to know about the joyless screw attack aircraft. smile
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 29 January 2018 13: 58
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Somehow it was in Africa, one of the countries (I do not remember the name) acquired similar aircraft.
      To wet the partisans who were getting from another country. They moistened successfully until the second country, which did not have its own air force, asked (for little money) a little bit of help from a neighbor.
      And here a couple of old Mirage playfully, in a few days, like flies, interrupted almost all such stormtroopers. The rest never rose from the airfield.
      This is all you need to know about the joyless screw attack aircraft. smile

      I did not expect this from you! negative You seem to have not gone to extremes before!
      It would be very interesting to read about this in more detail. The source of information do not share?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 January 2018 14: 16
        +1
        The fact of the matter is that I do not remember ... sad this is an old story. I only remembered the essence: some bought screw attack aircraft, while others hired a jet fighter and destroyed them.
        I believe that this was during the Great African War, when Zaire, Uganda, Rwanda, and others wet each other ...
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 38
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The fact of the matter is that I do not remember ...

          That's really true, I did not expect this from you! belay If you want to be taken seriously, do not write about what you can not prove. Or they will start to perceive you as an "Operator" negative Do you want it?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 January 2018 15: 43
            +3
            Well, you have absolutely shamed me ... crying . What to do. For example, I talk with people, I heard interesting episode stories from the Soviet Navy, I talked with military narcotists in military service - a lot of stories from them. But, of course, no evidence from the web or literature. Hide them "from the people" or publish?
            It’s easier for you - you write reviews of military equipment. You rely only on verified and published materials. And it is right. good
            And I’m kind of a blogger. Each child will kick, each will offend (behind the scenes: crying, sobbing). Just kidding fellow
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 29 January 2018 15: 49
              +4
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Well, you have absolutely shamed me ...

              Sorry if hurt. request But in the past I have studied quite closely the history of the combat use of light Tukanoclass light attack aircraft, including in English-language sources, and the episode about which you write to me did not come across. There is reason to believe that you have been misled. Much of the oral history is fiction or exaggeration. Therefore, they should be treated with great care. drinks
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 29 January 2018 21: 15
                +6
                Sergey, well, then the question is - where will the Russian sun be used?
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 30 January 2018 03: 20
                  +3
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Sergey, well, then the question is - where will the Russian sun be used?

                  The range of application of such aircraft is the broadest: participation in "counter-terrorist" operations, the fight against helicopters and UAVs, the interception of light aircraft, patrolling the borders and the near sea zone.
        2. Pan_hrabio
          Pan_hrabio 29 January 2018 14: 49
          +1
          To my shame, I have not heard anything about the "Great African War." Out of a sporting interest, I tried to search for information about the story you mentioned, but failed. But stumbled upon an interesting story, how relatively simple (which is really reactive) attack aircraft fought with helicopters.

          As you know, during the civil war in Angola, air support to the troops of the UNITA group was carried out by the Air Force of the Republic of South Africa. In the mid-80s, when the People's Armed Forces for the Liberation of Angola (also known as FAPLA) launched a large-scale offensive, the main supply of the troops in the jungle was carried out using helicopters. Usually two transport Mi-8s were covered by one combat Mi-24. UNITA leadership agreed with South Africa to disrupt this supply. When the South African military received all the necessary intelligence information about the flight routes, intercepts began. For some reason, South Africa decided to use attack aircraft rather than fighters to intercept helicopters. These were Atlas Impala - the licensed version of the Italian Aermacchi MB-326GB. In a few days, the Impala, using only the 30 mm DEFA 553 guns, shot down ten Angolan helicopters. At first glance, a little. But this number of those shot down was enough for a significant deterioration in the supply of the FAPLA troops. The offensive failed.


          https://topwar.ru/12620-kakoe-buduschee-u-shturmo
          vikov.html

          Well, the fact that the turboprop attack aircraft are doomed in a collision with a more or less modern fighter, is a fact.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 29 January 2018 14: 57
            +3
            Quote: noviczok
            To my shame, I have not heard anything about the "Great African War".

            The fighting in the 90 and zero years went mainly on the territory of Zaire. According to UN experts, about 2 million people died as a result of the war.
            Quote: noviczok
            Well, the fact that the turboprop attack aircraft are doomed in a collision with a more or less modern fighter, is a fact.

            And what is the probability of Su-25 winning over F-16?
            1. novel66
              novel66 29 January 2018 15: 15
              +2
              nonzero however!
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 29 January 2018 14: 57
            0
            Even with the MiG-15/17/19 .....
          3. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 January 2018 15: 54
            +1
            I guess it's hot - you got close to your goal. drinks
            These Impala - Italian attack aircraft Aermacchi MB-326
            "Another 17 MB-326GCs were built in Italy for Zaire (Force Arienne Zairoise) and 23 for the Zambian Air Force"
            Both Zambia and Zaire participated in that terrible cutting with genocides.
            It remains to find out the combat fate of these aircraft.
        3. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 29 January 2018 14: 57
          0
          Now imagine the same with the A10 / Su-25 or with attack helicopters ... and the Mirage Pair.
        4. ventel
          ventel 29 January 2018 15: 45
          +5
          You were mistaken. The first African conflict where helicopter attack aircraft were used was in the war with Biafra. There, the Swedish count gathered mercenary pilots who fought on MFi9 and quite successfully against the Nigirian army. The second 90s conflict in Angola where the South African mercenaries fought against UNITA on the PC7 Pilatus and lost net 2 or 1 aircraft. Yes, and in Vietnam, the helicopter attack aircraft showed themselves not bad.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 January 2018 16: 10
            +1
            Thanks for the information.
            And I do not deny that helicopter attack aircraft can be useful.
            But exactly until the day when it comes to the second side to buy (or hire)
            jet fighter.
            1. ventel
              ventel 29 January 2018 17: 41
              +2
              You remember the story with Rust. So the questions remain.
              1. avt
                avt 29 January 2018 18: 13
                +2
                Quote: ventel
                You remember the story with Rust.

                Do you know her? Well, the whole, whole, and not the version of the media and the memoir of the person involved?
                1. ventel
                  ventel 29 January 2018 18: 38
                  0
                  Well, if we assume that MI24 was included in the Moscow air defense, then that was not casual.
                  1. shuravi
                    shuravi 29 January 2018 23: 03
                    0
                    Quote: ventel
                    Well, if we assume that MI24 was included in the Moscow air defense, then that was not casual.


                    Well included and what?
            2. Simargl
              Simargl 29 January 2018 18: 27
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But exactly until the day when the second side does not occur to buy (or hire) a jet fighter.
              Uh ... i.e. could a jet attack aircraft resist a fighter jet? lol
  12. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 29 January 2018 13: 39
    +2
    For Brazil, the car may be normal (considering the number and quality of potential opponents), but for the Air Force of the countries of the first twenty, the machine is simply absolutely nothing.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 30 January 2018 14: 09
      0
      South America is the backyard of the United States, and they are not letting anyone in there. Therefore, the Brazilians were allowed to indulge in such squalor. In Europe, Russia and Asia, such a "stormtrooper" would be used as a training one.
  13. Strashila
    Strashila 29 January 2018 14: 02
    +5
    Everyone hit ... MANPADS ... small-caliber memory ... to read, because helicopters generally have no life in this world. What distinguishes from a helicopter, the ceiling and speed ... you can put any equipment and weapons, both for detecting targets and for protection against MANPADS and not only. The question of response time, time in the air, flight range compared to a helicopter ... this will undoubtedly be a plus, the ability to use a simple dirt strip, the same plus.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 30 January 2018 16: 11
      0
      Have you carefully read the performance characteristics? How is the attack helicopter different from this squalor — correctly — it is armored and protected from weapons with caliber up to 30 mm, much more maneuverable over the battlefield, which gives it a good chance not only to accurately use its weapons, but also to survive.
  14. svp67
    svp67 29 January 2018 15: 46
    0
    Quote: Bongo
    And how often Mi-24 landed landings? Or at least hang out at all in combat conditions?
    With the hang of them, especially at full load problem, not for nothing that there are wings. But they often land landings when small groups are required to land, they themselves, and when to pick up ... for example, a downed pilot.
    Quote: Bongo
    Almost 30 years have passed since the withdrawal of the "limited contingent". During this time, not only the means of destruction but the avionics of aircraft and helicopters have changed.

    You know that “for every screw, there is ...” Today, the avionics protect, and tomorrow, “I couldn’t”, that it was in vain that Vitebsk was fired.
    Quote: Bongo
    Outperforming the latter in terms of rate of climb, the established speed of a turn and the maximum speed of flight.
    And can you give a comparison, who and how much can rotate 180 degrees from the bottom? Can a plane stay in the air on the spot to escort its enemy ... At a helicopter, in terms of maneuverability of its advantages
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 29 January 2018 17: 41
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      With the hang of them, especially at full load problem, not for nothing that there are wings. But they often land landings when small groups are required to land, they themselves, and when to pick up ... for example, a downed pilot.

      In one of the articles of the series "Aviation against tanks", Mi-24 was considered in detail and the inconsistency of the concept of a flying BMP was proved. The landing compartment in a combat helicopter is a dead load reducing efficiency.
      Quote: svp67
      Can you give a comparison of who and for how much can turn from the bottom to 180 degrees?

      And how will this help the helicopter flying at cruising speed in air combat?
      Quote: svp67
      Can the plane, while remaining in the air on the spot, escort its opponent ...

      Easily, with the help of advanced optoelectronic systems.
      1. svp67
        svp67 29 January 2018 17: 46
        +1
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        And how will this help the helicopter flying at cruising speed in air combat?

        Just as it helped Harrier during the Falkland conflict when they shot down Argentine planes flying to defend their Malvins
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        Easily, with the help of advanced optoelectronic systems.

        Well, show me how the piston plane remains ONE PLACE, that is, it hangs. And the Helicopter can also fly back and forth, that is, meet the enemy with all of its airborne salvo ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. avt
    avt 29 January 2018 16: 09
    0
    Bongo,

    Quote: Bongo
    And there is no more correct example?

    Well, for now, see dumb bad in practice check
    Quote: Bongo
    technical articles, including where specific characteristics and conditions for the combat use of light turboprops are considered

    bully By the way, Az is a sinner and then about the same thing answered you. bully hi
  17. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 29 January 2018 19: 07
    +1
    The idea is good, but the plane is never an IL-2. There is practically no armor, it is cut down "from time" from a heavy machine gun
  18. svp67
    svp67 29 January 2018 20: 33
    0
    Quote: Spade
    What "good air defense" do partisans have? MANPADS, anti-aircraft machine guns and automatic guns, theoretically available to the “fighters for mopping up” these “Shelves” are not threatened, “Helfaer” has a range of up to 11 km at the moment.

    Before that, there wasn’t even that, giving the “whatnots” almost walk over their heads ... The same Apaches have their own radar capable of detecting the enemy at a great distance, and what does the “whatnot” have? It turns out that their work requires, if not a DRLO plane, then some sort of reconnaissance board or a group of special forces near the target
  19. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 January 2018 21: 23
    0
    Here is the best budget option for poor countries, but who want to win:
    Chinese JF-17.
    Air combat with 4+ fighters, strikes on the ground with precision weapons, intercepts, attack, if
    pulls on exploits smile
    All the vagaries of just $ 30 million. Avionics - the latest, all the bells and whistles.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 January 2018 21: 41
      +1
      And compare the prices: Tukano, who can do nothing but attack and is completely defenseless against fighters, costs under 15 million, and the Chinese JF-17, who without hanging containers can fight any modern fighter with chances of success, plus work on the ground with precision bombs and missiles - worth - 30 million (two Tucano).
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 30 January 2018 10: 07
        +2
        A colleague, you, excuse me, are engaged in spherokonina.
        Vietnam's experience has shown that a jet fighter is not a good counterguerrilla aircraft. Phantom is not a replacement for Bronco / Dragonfly, nor vice versa. For armies of a counterguerrilla orientation, the tasks for each day seem more important than the steepness "in general".
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 January 2018 10: 51
          +1
          Vietnam was a very long time ago. When there was no exact weapon.
          And in Afghanistan, the 80s was not there.
          Israel is once again constantly engaged in the fight against partisans.
          And he did not start any rifles and does not plan. Even attack helicopters
          gradually go away.
          F16 and drones do all the work.
          Phantom - a heavy fighter-bomber. Your example is not successful.
          And I brought as a suitable means of "Chinese" as an easy (and cheap)
          single-engine fighter-bomber.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 30 January 2018 12: 29
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            F16 and drones do all the work.

            Colleague, one more time.
            Israel is a militarily first-rate country. Yes, if you have penguins and drones, then helicopters and jerboas may not be needed. Moreover, you do not have the option to abandon adult aircraft, because the same Egyptians are a friend today, and tomorrow allaakbar
            At the same time, there are users who cannot afford penguins and their entire body kit. A jet aircraft are less consistent with their main tasks. Such agricultural aviation is quite satisfied. And Americans, by the way, have Textron Scorpion in reserve, purely so that it is.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 30 January 2018 13: 47
              0
              "Such agricultural aviation is quite satisfied." ///

              Duc ... agricultural aviation (as you aptly said) is worth as much as 14 million dollars !!!
              And the next 4+ generation is $ 30 million.
              Here even the very poor should think about what to take ...
              Okay, I’m out of the argument defeated, I did not persuade him to buy. request
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 30 January 2018 14: 58
                +2
                Quote: voyaka uh
                not persuaded to buy.

                I am convinced that people who have at least $ 30 million free will understand what to buy no worse than us)))
  20. shuravi
    shuravi 29 January 2018 21: 42
    +2
    In Russian VKS such a miracle is not applicable. For such a machine, pilots of the level of training courses for junior lieutenants are needed.
  21. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 January 2018 21: 57
    +1
    I would like to say about Super Tucano: "What are nice, how warlike, cute!"
    I personally most admire these airplanes:

    All sorts of Farman, Newpan, Fokker. And their insanely brave pilots
    which took off on such shelves glued with "snots", made loops and even shot!
    But their time passed forever. Like screw attack aircraft ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 30 January 2018 07: 23
      +2
      about! I have such a toy - the “knights of heaven” are called, fascinatingly
  22. pro100y.belarus
    pro100y.belarus 30 January 2018 00: 35
    +1
    The shape of the wings and tail is similar to the P-51 Mustang. In general, chasing after drug trafficking planes is just that. Just remember the movie "Made in America" ​​with Tom Cruise.
  23. Valery Saitov
    Valery Saitov 30 January 2018 12: 27
    0
    The Russian Ministry of Defense has ordered 30 of the latest Yak-130 combat training aircraft for the aerospace forces. This aircraft is very popular not only in Russia, it is willingly bought by foreign customers, in particular Belarus, Algeria and Bangladesh. These "flying desks" even Syria contracted several years ago. The cost of the transaction for the supply of more than 30 Yak-130 Damascus aircraft was estimated at $ 550 million, but the implementation of the contract was postponed due to the civil war in the republic. Due to internal political problems, the contract for these aircraft for Libya did not take place.

    The first deliveries of combat training Yak-130 to the Russian military began in 2010. As of the beginning of 2016, the Russian Air Force transferred more than 60 such aircraft.
    “In accordance with the terms of the contract, by the end of 2018, 30 Yak-130 aircraft will be handed over to the aerospace forces,” the military department said.

    The amount of the contract was not disclosed. But according to open data, the unit cost previously amounted to about $ 15 million.
  24. Bongo
    Bongo 30 January 2018 13: 14
    +1
    novel66,
    Quote: novel xnumx
    thanks for the article, one thing - isn’t 2 not dc-3?

    Lee-2 is a military transport version of the PS-84 passenger aircraft, created on the basis of the licensed Douglas DC-3. There were some differences from the original, in particular on the Lee-2 installed Soviet M-62 engines with a capacity of 1000 l. with
  25. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 30 January 2018 13: 48
    0
    Squalor. For the Brazilian operetnoy army, which is under the tutelage of the United States, this "attack aircraft" is suitable. But for serious armies, this is a training aircraft and no more.
  26. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 30 January 2018 17: 54
    +2
    What the heck?!
    Wrote the answer here to koment, which said that they say Mi-35 for export is cheaper ..
    Like, a little more than 10-12 million dollars.
    He pointed out that the article says - more than $ 35 million is worth exporting Mi-36s.
    To me in response - what is written on the fence ..
    As a result, they deleted my koment .. Without explanation ..
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 30 January 2018 22: 50
      0
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      What the heck?!
      Wrote the answer here to koment, which said that they say Mi-35 for export is cheaper ..
      Like, a little more than 10-12 million dollars.
      He indicated that the article says - for export Mi-35 cost more than 36 million dollars..
      To me in response - what is written on the fence ..
      As a result, they deleted my koment .. Without explanation ..


      Something too expensive.
  27. shuravi
    shuravi 30 January 2018 23: 17
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: shuravi
    Your knowledge of the service does not go beyond the stretcher? Clear.

    But are there really no objections? It's fine.


    And what is your point there? What did you bring to a stretcher? So this is only your ignorance and all. bully

    Yeah ... Aviation transported up to 9 thousand tons of fuel per year. Total fuel.
    At the same time, aviation consumed annually from 130.9 (1980 year) to 291.6 (1986 year) thousand tons of fuel per year.
    At the same time, during the entire existence of the group of Soviet troops in Afghanistan, aviation consumed more fuel than ground troops. For example, 85 year. 481 thousand tons in total, including 271.3 jet fuel. Apparently, the duty of helicopters in the air was bearing fruit ...
    Figures are from the serious monograph "Logistic support of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by A. Meitin and A. Turkov


    How stupid you are. Now it’s clear why they didn’t trust you with anything except loading / unloading.
    Full quote:
    Fuel was also delivered by air to units operating in isolated directions, in isolation from the main forces. For the fuel supply, mainly An-12, An-22 aircraft and Mi-6 and Mi-8 helicopters were used. On average, over the year they supplied about 9,0 thousand tons of fuel and 300-350 tons of oils and lubricants.

    That is, not at all about that. hi
    And if they started to refer to this source, would they read it or something. In order to find out how the bulk of kerosene was delivered to Afghanistan. bully