The capacity of Russian anaerobic submarines will double

The Central Research Institute of Ship Electrical Engineering and Technology (CRI SET) will increase the power of the new battery based on solid fuel elements BTE-50K-E for air-independent power plants of submarines, said, familiar with the new development.

According to him, the capacity of power sources for air-independent installations will double, from 50 to 100 kiloWatts.

Now the development of such megawatt class facilities is being carried out by the TsDB Rubin, Malachite and the Central Research Institute SET. All of them are waiting for the allocation of funds for the continuation of work.

The battery from the Central Research Institute SET is part of the power modules with power 250-450 kilowatts.

These modules consist of an electrochemical generator and a hydrocarbon fuel converter. At the moment, an electrochemical generator has already been created, and a converter is being developed. As for the new battery, its prototype has already been successfully tested.

Earlier, the “RG” reported that the diesel-electric submarine of the 677 “Lada” project was the base submarine for testing anaerobic power plants.

Now the head submarine of this project "St. Petersburg" transferred the fleet and is in trial operation.

Two other Lada - Kronstadt and Velikiye Luki are built on the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg. They are planning to transfer them to the fleet in 2020 and 2021.

The displacement of the submarines of the project "Lada" is 1,7 thousand tons (against 2,3 thousand tons from "Varshavyanok"). The hull length is 67 meters, the width is 7,1 meters, the submerged speed is the 21 node, the surface submarine is the 10 nodes, the autonomy of navigation is 45 days.

Comments

[afrikanez]

I remember Chubais with his NANO, he also dealt with batteries. We should ask him at least the best practices!

[Gray brother]

Quote: afrikanez

I remember Chubais with his NANO, he also dealt with batteries. We should ask him at least the best practices!

It's funny, but the battery factory, on which everyone was laughing so merrily, works quietly and calmly. But this is no longer interesting to anyone.

[astepanov]

Well why. The Liotech plant safely dies. At first, 13 billion rubles were pushed into it, then it was supported for a long time by subsidies from the regional budget of Moscow, and bye-bye. And who needs these crafts of Chubais, if during the tests electric buses with his batteries burn, others (in Moscow) died, not having developed a resource after the first year of operation. The plant has already gone bankrupt, but now it somehow lives by good-will alms. However, a lot has been written about that on the Web - as well as about other offspring of Rusnano. But the fact that no one in their right mind would put a dangerous and unreliable toy on a combat submarine seems obvious. Nobody needs the new Kursk.

[KCA]

So the situation was predicted in advance - they created a joint venture with the Chinese, built a plant, the Chinese sucked everything that could be from RUSNANO on this topic and quickly went bankrupt in their office, a joint venture participant, and RUSNANO was left with nothing. Although Chubais himself was probably not bad from the trough

[ZVO]

Quote: KCA

Z created a joint venture with the Chinese, built a factory, the Chinese sucked everything that could be

The Chinese went to the factory at our request.
They completely invested in it.
Money, equipment.

They were promised production and orders.

As a result, there were no orders ...
Production was at zero and now at around zero.


Do not lie!!!

[Inok10]

... Comrades - Whoa! ... to the wrong steppe carries you at a gallop ... in the Article, a conversation for ECG POWER! ... what is the point ... at the moment, all existing VNEU have low power, therefore the displacement of submarines equipped with them is not large ... and the speed at VNEU does not exceed 2-4 knots ... and another point, hydrogen is stored in the form of a metal hydride, to get it you need to heat it ... bringing the current VNEU to full capacity is 4 to 6 hours! and this is for the sake of 4 knots. ... ... about which in the article:

Now the development of such installations megawatt class involved in Central Design Bureau "Rubin", "Malachite" and Central Research Institute of SET.

... that is, providing combat speed 15-20 knots ... that's what it is about ...

[Svarog51]

Alex, welcome

Whoa!

Let the fantasies take a walk, when the OFFICIAL infa is that the boat at the VNEU has been accepted into the Fleet, then ...
Threat. I don’t want a colleague interested in the Special Department

[Inok10]

Quote: Svarog51

Alex, welcome

... Good Night Sergey! ...

Quote: Svarog51

Let the fantasies take a walk

... so who is against ... if on the topic ... ah, here fornication is continuous ...

Quote: Svarog51

that's when OFFICIAL infa will be

... after they remove the Vulture ?! ...

Quote: Svarog51

then and

... We won’t recognize her Formular Speed ​​under ECG ... it will be a vulture for a long time ...

Quote: Svarog51

Threat. I don’t want a colleague interested in the Special Department

... that’s who my enemies are not to me, so they are ... well, here are the Enemies who don’t know the fundamentals of the physics of the School Course! ... 1MW = 1359,62 hp ... it is remembered in the Article that it is indicated ... 636 = 2300 tons of full displacement, the speed of full underwater travel is 21 knots. ... well now let's estimate for the Lada with a total displacement of 1700 tons ... with a known power of 636 = 5500 hp ... a difficult task ?! ... no, on the knee decides ... 5500 hp = 4,05 MW ... that is, for Lada, no more than 2,5 MW = 3399,05 hp is enough. to achieve the same performance characteristics ... and yes, the conversation for VNEU was about German and Swedish ...

[Svarog51]

Alexey, good morning Thanks for the technical details. Don’t pay attention to my insinuations, it’s me to bring intrigue into the discussion. Remember what battles erupted in Armata before its release "into the light"? So it will be with VNEU. But at least distracted from politics.

[Gray brother]

Quote: astepanov

others (in Moscow) died,

The first electric bus was launched on December 12 in St. Petersburg. In Moscow, they don’t exist at all yet - how can they develop a resource if the competition lasted until the end of 2017?
Where do you get all this from?
The plant cannot bend - it has a carriage orders.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: astepanov

who needs these Chubais crafts, if during the tests electric buses with its batteries burn, others (in Moscow) died, not having developed a resource after the first year of operation.

I was struck by such a useful and valuable thing developed by RosNANO - an anti-vandal lamp for common areas. It is impossible to break, it is impossible to twist, it is impossible to shake off ... A rock, not a light bulb. Only now the price of 6,5 tyr ... Well, nothing ... Anatoly Borisych said at the New Year corporate party - "There is money, a lot of money ..." Who has and who has a lot, Fox Red? ....

[Gray brother]

Quote: Zoldat_A

You can’t break, you can’t twist, you can’t shake it off.

Useful thing. Where can I get this one?

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Zoldat_A

You can’t break, you can’t twist, you can’t shake it off.

Useful thing. Where can I get this one?

They did not say. They showed it on TV and said that it was impossible to steal and unscrew.
As children, by golly ... Show me in Russia a thing that cannot be stolen.
A friend has a company - trucking, sober movers, etc. We sit in the office, watch TV, drink cognac. They show on TV how four villains were arrested, who managed to steal and load an ATM into Gazelle in minutes (!!!!). The villains, of course, were detained. And I, knowing the specifics of the work of his movers, told a friend that he should look for these guys and, after serving their term, take on a double salary. That's where the professionals disappear!

[Gray brother]

Quote: Zoldat_A

They did not say. They showed it on TV and said that it was impossible to steal and unscrew.

If it is impossible to steal a light bulb - it is necessary to shave the lamp as a whole. This is the basics.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Zoldat_A

They did not say. They showed it on TV and said that it was impossible to steal and unscrew.

If it is impossible to steal a light bulb - it is necessary to shave the lamp as a whole. This is the basics.

We will carry away with a piece of the wall, if you can’t tear it from the wall ...

[Svarog51]

Alex, my respect

We will carry away with a piece of the wall, if you can’t tear it from the wall ...

Well, it’s like the fixtures are hanging on the ceiling, they will push the lamp down - they will make a hatch on the second floor, there’s only a staircase to fix — and two-level housing will turn out.

[ZVO]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: afrikanez

I remember Chubais with his NANO, he also dealt with batteries. We should ask him at least the best practices!

It's funny, but the battery factory, on which everyone was laughing so merrily, works quietly and calmly. But this is no longer interesting to anyone.

Liotech died ...
There were a million television shows and articles about the total number of people left at the plant.
That he didn’t have any 3 years, even single orders.

[Gray brother]

Quote: ZVO

There were a million television shows and articles about the total number of people left at the plant.

So they had bankruptcy - there was no demand for hefty lithium-ion banks of large capacity. All through e. - No, first to figure out where to put the products. Now electric buses give birth.

[jjj]

Such batteries have long been flying into space. But there is platinum and the price is astronomical. They wanted to change the design in order to lower the price and increase efficiency. So far, judging by this statement, we can conclude that the work is not abandoned

[210ox]

A friend told ..... A submarine will appear, then we’ll discuss ... How is this "news" with the prospect of "suddenly when it appears" strain.

[NEXUS]

According to him, the capacity of power sources for air-independent installations will double, from 50 to 100 kiloWatts.

I am wildly sorry, but do we have at least some VNEU, is there to increase everything for her?

[Magic archer]

I wanted to say the same thing, you got ahead of me! For starters, at least a couple of boats in operation.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Magic Archer

For starters, at least a couple of boats in operation.

To redo them later, yeah.

[Magic archer]

In the meantime, there’s nothing even to redo! And you can throw any promises. And the paper will endure everything.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Magic Archer

In the meantime, there’s nothing to redo!

I am certainly not an expert, but I suspect that all the energy consumption on the boat is calculated based on the capabilities of the power plant. If you can do better, you need to do better.
What is the point of building boats with different equipment and an incomplete power plant, but with an oxygen bomb on board? Just let the money go.

[Magic archer]

Why is it necessary with an oxygen bomb ?! You can go the Japanese way. They use powerful lithium batteries.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Magic Archer

Why is it necessary with an oxygen bomb?

Well, or with hydrogen - I do not know what they are going to get from diesel fuel there.

[Genry]

Quote: Magic Archer

Why is it necessary with an oxygen bomb?! .... powerful lithium batteries.

Well then, a lithium bomb.
A bomb can be anything that contains a large supply of energy.

[Vlad.by]

Sorry, but the reforming reactor, like 2 years ago, was launched on the ground and it worked - it "got" hydrogen from diesel fuel. Bring to mind, no doubt. Need money, time and a kick in the ass.

[Genry]

Quote: Vlad.by

Sorry, but the reforming reactor, like 2 years ago, was launched on the ground and it worked - it "got" hydrogen from diesel fuel. Bring to mind, no doubt. Need money, time and a kick in the ass.

Sorry ... But we have a nonsense exchange here, and you came with your "serious" one.

[Vlad.by]

Sorry, exchange more ...

[Simple]

Quote: Gray Brother

I am certainly not an expert, but I suspect that all the energy consumption on the boat is calculated based on the capabilities of the power plant. If you can do better, you need to do better.

Or maybe the Central Design Bureau "Rubin" is now engaged in a new breakthrough development - the use of overboard water pressure to generate electrical energy?

[Topotun]

Well, according to media reports, work in this direction has been ongoing for a long time. They started in the USSR. We do not take into account the “lighters” of post-war developments. There chemistry was terrible. It seems that organic fuel is being converted into electricity. Again, according to media reports, ours seemed to be ready to enter the foreign markets with the product ... As a matter of fact, time will tell.

[Alex777]

And a month ago they talked about the launch of mini-power plants. Atomic. Containerized. For truck tractors. Just for 100KW, 300KW and 1MW.

[san4es]

Quote: NEXUS

... do we have at least some VNEU, is there to increase everything for her?

No:

The Russian Navy back in the 90s opted for ECG, and in 2008 - in favor of a diesel reforming system.
... the economic crisis of the 90s, as well as the fact that there was no urgent need for VNEU - the Russian fleet has nuclear submarines, a nuclear reactor can be considered "ideal VNEU" - slowed down the creation of an anaerobic installation. However, in the mid-zero, these works resumed. As Vladimir Korolev, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, said at the end of November, “We continue to work on a propulsion system of an air-independent type, this is our prospect, our future”

New battery based on solid fuel cells BTE-50K-E

[astepanov]

Cenzored journalist wrote, and you are replicating. "Solid fuel" elements - on coal, or what? Or firewood? We are talking about solid electrolyte devices, and in this case - ECG with a membrane similar to Nafion - a polymer of fluorocarbon vinyl esters containing sulfo groups.

[san4es]

Quote: astepanov

-.... about ECG with a membrane similar to Nafion, a polymer of fluorocarbon vinyl esters containing sulfo groups.

... Yes, you are evidently a GENIUS! What are you doing on this site?
... Wise guys divorced b ...., where not to spit ..

[astepanov]

Quote: san4es

... Wise guys divorced b ...., where not to spit ..

Essentially have something to say? No? Then - free.

[san4es]

Quote: astepanov

Quote: san4es

... Wise guys divorced b ...., where not to spit ..

Essentially have something to say? No? Then - free.

... Well, you're cool! ... Hold + ...

[Svarog51]

Sanya, Why confrontation? Could it be the batteries, where paste is used instead of electrolyte? I came across such a couple of times in the service, it is quite interesting to know the technology.

[san4es]

..

Quote: Svarog51

pretty interesting to know the technology.

... Hold:
A promising Russian anaerobic power plant will use highly purified hydrogen to operate. This gas will be obtained on board the ship from diesel fuel by reforming, that is, the conversion of fuel into hydrogen-containing gas and aromatic hydrocarbons, which will then pass through a hydrogen evolution unit. Then, hydrogen will be supplied to hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells, where electricity will be generated for engines and on-board systems.

BTE-50K-E battery on a test bench
A battery, otherwise called an electrochemical generator, is being developed by the Central Research Institute of Marine Electrical Engineering and Technology. This battery, which generates electricity through the reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, is called BTE-50K-E. Its power is 50 kilowatts. The power of the advanced battery will be one hundred kilowatts. The new battery will be part of the energy modules of promising non-nuclear submarines with a capacity of 250-450 kilowatts.
In addition to the electrochemical elements themselves, otherwise called hydrogen fuel cells, the composition of such modules will include hydrocarbon fuel converters. It is in them that the diesel reforming process will take place

[Svarog51]

Sanya, well, it’s good to load me, this garbage will not fit me under the hood, and the PL commander already doesn’t shine for me. And where can I squeeze this unit?

[Evgeniy667b]

The new fiscal year began and the designers also wanted to get something. It stretches from year to year. . The assurances that now, that a little bit, are as old as the world. But in the end, the usual layouts, from cardboard or plywood !? This system developed back in the early 90s, the principle of it is first money, then chairs. And it is not clear that all breakthrough products are made primarily on enthusiasm !!! This is a big deficit in Russia. And not only on VNEU, everywhere !!! So Mr. Vilnit, general of Rubin, is whining .... give me money. Next year will be the same.

[ohka_new]

Keyword - Pending Funding

[NEXUS]

Quote: ohka_new

Keyword - Pending Funding

So far I am only observing "highlighting" ..

[Berber]

How much will submarines of this class be in demand? What are they for? It seems to me only if for export.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: BerBer

How much will submarines of this class be in demand?

At least one NPL team for each fleet will definitely be needed. In the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet they will be the best naval naval base. In the Baltic and Black Sea Fleet - first-line fighters.

Quote: BerBer

What are they for?

To maintain a database, moreover, against a submarine in the fleet’s area of ​​responsibility, to protect the rbkSN RBD, to patrol at the edge of pack ice in anticipation of Elks and Virgins ...

Quote: BerBer

It seems to me only if for export.

Moreover, the capacity of the NAPL market is impressive!

[NEXUS]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

patrolling at the edge of pack ice in anticipation of Elk and Virgin ...

Sasha, welcome.
At a speed of 21 knots, hmm ... against the nuclear submarines ... vague doubts torment me. Not on Senka cap compete with submarine VNEU with nuclear submarines. To equal sparing with such atomic predators, you need the same predator, not a seal with the claim that it is a shark. Close the straits, yes ... coastal patrol, yes. I even agree that they will fit very well in the internal seas. But in the north and in the Pacific Ocean they will be game, not hunters.
I said, against Matrassov’s nuclear submarines (which aren’t rusty troughs), a submarine of the Hunter class, like Lyra, is needed. And here so far I do not see an alternative.
A submarine with VNEU is good in inland seas, like an ambush strike unit. There its autonomy is just at the box office.
If I would increase the speed of such a submarine from VNEU to at least 30-35 knots, and so that it would not sink 300 meters, but 500-600, I would agree with you.

[the same doctor]

It’s impossible to give such a speed, but to dive at least 2 km, but! What to do at such a depth? They don’t see you, but you don’t see anything on the surface either.
.
I’m actually looking at our design engineers ... Either they are not allowed to create, or that ... But the obvious solutions are not implemented.

[NEXUS]

Quote: also a doctor

It’s impossible to give speed

Seriously? A nuclear submarine Lira easily accelerated to 41 knots and deployed almost in place. And one of them gave 43 knots. At the same time, it sank to depths no less than those on which the US submarines are capable of sinking. Moreover, its displacement was comparable with the displacement of Varshavyanka.
What good is submarine with VNEU? More autonomy than DEPL? And low noise ... and for the fight against mattress nuclear submarines an important and very important parameter is the depth of immersion, and partly the speed. And in this, the submarine with VNEU is limping on both legs. Hoping for an arsenal and new torpedoes? So mattresses are developing a new arsenal for their submarines. And in the bottom line, the submarine with VNEU does not give the certainty that they will cope adequately with the Elks and Virgins.

Quote: also a doctor

But the obvious solutions are not implemented.

I do not see yet an alternative to building a submarine of the Hunter class, such as Lear. We are building ash trees for a long time and there is no need to wait for a large series. Husky is only in the project. And in the end, what are we going to protect our Boreas and Dolphins?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: NEXUS

At speed in the 21 node, hmm ... against the nuclear submarines ... vague doubts torment me. Not on Senka cap compete with submarine VNEU with nuclear submarines.

Andrew, hello!
Sorry, I didn’t immediately answer: Navigator's Day, wife - Tatyana ... Well, of course, relaxed, maleha ... Yeah.
But, to our sheep. No one runs under water at maximum speed (the deaf are not respected there), well, if only on the measured line, or when urgently getting out of the impact ... They patrol (veil) on the 3-4 ties, if deeper, to increase the search speed, inspect a larger area, then 5-6 nodes ... And they listen to all ears ... No one is making noise ... Amy are also sneaking, not running with a rattle to the buffet! Who has better acoustics, stronger machine analysis and more reliable algorithms - he is the first to discover "creeping in the night" ...
About the Senkina hat. Gotland showed that the main thing is not speed, but stealth. That is why 677 adapted for "ambush" actions at the ice edge, along the routes of the approach of the Amsk submarines to the communication nodes and the throat of the Kola Bay.

Quote: NEXUS

If we would increase the speed of such a submarine from VNEU to at least 30-35 nodes, and so that it would sink not on 300 meters, but on 500-600,

Friend The increment of speed entails an increase in the power of EI at times (if not squared!). Therefore - displacement, etc. in a circle ...
About the depth of immersion. It all depends on the material and thickness of the PC. Again, everything rests on the weight and size characteristics of the product. Dale - energy and so on. Therefore, they always choose the optimum: Depth, displacement, underwater speed ...
About the hunter of the Lear class. The last little PLA was Ryubi / Provence / among the French. But for some reason, no one is building more of these units ... Neither we, nor amas, nor shavers, nor hinchiks, nor Indians ... Again, everything depends on habitability, autonomy, volumes and weights of equipment inside a PC, stock of weapons, etc. .P. Perhaps when artificial intelligence appears and the level of automation becomes cybernetic, approaches to the design of hidden vessels will change. In the meantime, the way it is today. Therefore, they say about Husky - there will be 9-12 thousand tons. Some rave about the double-shell design and the LMT reactor on it ... However! But this is all against the current trend in submarine shipbuilding ... But this is purely my view of the problem. I could be wrong.
IMHO.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Andrew, hello!

Sasha, welcome!

Sorry, I didn’t immediately answer: Navigator’s day, wife - Tatyana love ... Well, of course, I relaxed, drinks a little boy ... Yeah. wink

Well, here God himself commanded.

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Nobody runs under water at maximum speed (the deaf are not respected there),

Sasha, I’m not talking about the fact that our Hunter (Lira2.0) will be with a tambourine and there, there, as if undermined, drive under 40 knots under water. Why did Lira need such speed and such maneuverability? Yes, to stupidly leave or even run away from torpedoes of the adversary. Give a volley and quickly fade it so that it is not discovered and drowned. At the same time, the autonomy of such a nuclear submarine is much prettier than that of a submarine with VNEU.
At the same time, Lira 2-0 with such high-speed characteristics quite easily catch up with any AUG. And taking into account, in the future, the adoption of such strike systems as Zircon and Predator rocket torpedoes, such a nuclear submarine will turn into a real chronic hemorrhoid for mattresses.
As for the depth of immersion ... I think this moment is important. Moose and Maiden have a diving depth of 400-500 meters. At the same time, their speakers are better (comparatively) ours. There are also pitfalls here. I am not against submarines with VNEU. These are wonderful quiet submarines. But tell me, friend, how can we protect and cover the Boreas and Dolphins? Multi-purpose workers are getting into operation extremely slowly, and mattresses of only Virgins already have 13 pieces.
The deadlines for the delivery of multipurpose ships to our fleets are one of the important reasons for my conviction that LIRA 2.0 is now necessary for us. They can definitely be built faster. And there you look and the Husky are paving.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: NEXUS

Why did Ltre need such speed and such maneuverability? Yes, to stupidly leave or even run away from torpedoes adversary.

Andrew! Mk-48mod.6-7 runs on 50 km and her speed is 60uz ... But in pursuit and Sabrok will certainly fly ... So, we will not talk about tactics ... Now everything is simpler: a volley of dezhta from the bearing to the attack torpedo , GPA and simulator, loop and dive below the layer of the jump ... And hide like a boa constrictor on a hunt ... to repeatedly (floating up without a move) flip on the BA-111 adversary, at least ... But, there are also options. However, no one will run away headlong - noisiness will give your place with your head, and you are like a deaf pig on such moves ...
And on other issues - in PM, and Aesopian language ...

[Berber]

Market capacity is a key phrase. DEPL, which does not need to be invented, copes with all this perfectly.

[Romario_Argo]

The situation is clearing up, not everything is so bad with the diesel-electric submarine of the 677 project. Perhaps the diesel-electric submarine “St. Petersburg” will be modernized and transferred to the fleet.
A more detailed article on diesel-electric missiles from Andrei from Chelyabinsk: Russian Navy. A sad look into the future. Part 4. Halibut and Lada

[Monarchist]

Quote: afrikanez

I remember Chubais with his NANO, he also dealt with batteries. We should ask him at least the best practices!

Joking as a joke, and the future of the electronics industry in nanotechnology. In Japan and America, they already understood this. Let's hope that Chubais was enough only for the collapse of the Soviet economy, and then the batteries ran out

[Overlock]

From Chubais

RUSNANO's Novosibirsk portfolio company OCSiAl launches the production of a “new mode of transport” - UJET smartjets. Chubais reported this on his Facebook page.
“Today, our OCSiAl is launching UJET production. The company will issue 32 thousand smartjets per year. It is as different from bikes and bicycles as the iPhone from push-button phones, ”wrote Chubais.
From the information on ujet.com, it follows that the price of UJET starts from € 8690 (590,8 thousand rubles). According to information published on the site, with a basic battery, a smartjet can travel 70 km, and with a high-capacity battery, which takes 2 hours to charge, 150 km. According to the newspaper Vedomosti, the maximum speed of a smartjet is limited to 45 km / h.

[groks]

Cool! In the winter, along Novosib on an electric scooter for crazy money.

[Serg koma]

.

Quote: groks

Cool! Winter in Novosib

Mind does not understand Russia,
No yardstick to measure:
She has a special —
In Russia you can only believe
PS I hope that you won’t take these lines to the “redhead”.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Overlock

According to information published on the site, with a basic battery, a smartjet can travel 70 km, and with a high-capacity battery, which takes 2 hours to charge, 150 km. According to the newspaper Vedomosti, the maximum speed of a smartjet is limited to 45 km / h.

Ahh, it’s for these smartjets that it produces batteries, the Chubais plant built, which was proudly announced above, Gray Brother

[Overlock]

increase what is not. Funny

[Monarchist]

The first anaerobic submarines were developed back in WWII for kriegsmarine. As familiar sailors told me: in the USSR they experimented with these facilities several times, but were able to put into series

[askort154]

When I look at the characteristics of submarines, the question always arises, why is the surface speed less than the underwater? Logically, it should be the other way around! " I know aerodynamics, no hydrodynamics.

[Svarog51]

Recently, someone from the submarine answered this question in comments. There is something connected with the stern gland. Moremanov must be asked.

[Andrey NM]

The shape of the case does not allow. With an increase in the revolutions of the screws, cavitation occurs, the “face” burrows. On WWII submarines the hull was actually for surface swimming, the boats were diving, now the hulls are optimized for diving, spindle-shaped. With increasing depth, speed increases. There is also the concept of "low noise speed." There are special graphics for this business.

[san4es]

... Great Earrings ... It's all about wave resistance ... We read the theory:

During the operation of the submarine, the total roughness increases due to the hull shape Resistance due to the excess of the total hydrodynamic pressure on the underwater surface of the submarine hull compared to the stern and the increase in the speed of water flowing around its surface in the middle part. The hulls of modern submarines are streamlined, which provides a fraction of the shape resistance of not more than 6-8% of the total resistance. Destruction (in particular painting), corrosion and fouling of the hull surface, which as a result leads to a loss of up to 10% of speed.
The wave resistance is due to the excess of the total pressure on the free surface of the hull of the submarine compared to the stern due to the formation of waves on the surface of the water caused by its movement.

At full speed in the above-water position, the impedance reaches 50-60% of the full (!). With decreasing speed, the share of wave resistance decreases sharply.

In the underwater position near the surface of the water, the process of formation of ship waves and wave resistance takes place, but its intensity decreases with increasing depth. In practice, it is believed that wave impedance is absent if the immersion depth is greater than the length of the submarine.

https://podlodka.info/education/34-the-theory-of-
submarine / 362-the-resistance-movement-of-the-subm
arine.html

[Svarog51]

Sanya, my respect. So I thought that in vain I stuck to this topic - "with a pork snout, but in a high profile." “Avos” did not ride and now I will get it in full. Of course, I understand the theory, but without practice, my knowledge is worthless, and comments too.

[san4es]

... Come on, don’t bother, no one thinks about it (except for scientists), they just know: "how to do it in the best possible way" ..
... you are driving a car, but the same formulas in your thoughts do not flicker

[Svarog51]

.You're driving a car, but the same formulas in your thoughts do not flicker

I have a whole list in my mind that “shines” in terms of how many and for what it will fly to me for this or that violation. And well, to the devil. Going quietly - should less.

[san4es]

There above, after the "confrontation" about fuel cells ...

[Svarog51]

I've read. But I don’t have confidence in electric cars. The more electricians there are in the car, the higher the probability of short-circuit and fire. No, I'm certainly not an opponent of progress and comfort, but somewhat conservative in this regard. There is still no idea what happened on board with the Argentine boat. But most opinions agree on accidents involving batteries.

[groks]

What does hydrodynamics have to do with it? Above all the same can not get away from either the destroyers or the helicopter.

[tchoni]

Let them first find "Russian anaerobic submarines," and then they can increase their power. At least three ....

[Galleon]

The genius of Putin shines brighter and brighter, and by March will turn into an inescapable sun. Good news from all sides. It turns out that by increasing the power of the battery, the power of the power plant as a whole is increased. The battery is 2 times - and the power of the EU is 2 times! Turn off your brains and “vote with your heart” - it used to be called that.

[Vlad.by]

Isn’t it time to the bottom of the galleon? Board not rotted?
Does doubling the power of a power source prevent you from using, roughly speaking, an electric motor with twice as much power?
And what does Putin have to do with it?

[Galleon]

Despite the fact that the title of the article gives a wishful thinking. And we have more and more of such articles for the elections - it is already turning back from them.
Well, you put a double battery on your “scab” with wheels, not at 55 A / h, but at 110, go and say that your motor is doubled. And what - after all, yes?
The name reflects precisely this distortion. Do not get it yourself? Nothing in your head rotted? Wow, even with the comments got out to amuse, you are my animator. Thanks, I succeeded.

[Vlad.by]

In the arrangement on automotive topics, the name means a doubling of the power of the ICE, capable of twisting the generator and the driveshaft, but not the battery capacity and starter power, you're funny.
"... and there are no sails in the river ..." (A. Makarevich)

[bogart047]

eh, I would like this boat for an excursion to the shores of the Englishwoman, which crap ...

[antivirus]

The displacement of submarines of the Lada project is 1,7 thousand tons (against 2,3 thousand tons at Varshavyanka).
trifles, but pleasant trifles

[groks]

Certainly pleasant - instead of cruisers and destroyers, boats began to be built, and submariners also need to make room. And then there was a pool with a steam room on the Sharks - they were completely overheated!

[antivirus]

I started to walk, do not sit at the pier with old troughs
joy to the "partners" are

[groks]

I do not catch logic. If you make nano boats, then you don’t have to go to the port at all?
And the "old troughs", the analogs of which the Americans continue to exploit, are not easy for money. Therefore, nano and maybe even pico.

[antivirus]

Yes . trifle a nice

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: groks

And the "old troughs", the analogs of which the Americans continue to exploit, are simply not for the money

Ummm ... Amercians still exploit an analogue ... Sharks ??
Vets in what universe do you live, dear?

[groks]

Ohio.
Do you also like the destruction of the element of the nuclear triad?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: groks

Ohio

Ahem ... Shark displacement - 48000 tons. Ohio - less than 20000 tons.
Will you continue about the "analogues", or will you die down already?

Quote: groks

Do you also like the destruction of the element of the nuclear triad?

Poking here is not accepted, I remind.
This "element" for a long time (at least 7 years) without rockets, stands at the wall. Than to restore - it is easier to build a new one.
Do you just write, or sometimes read something?
Possession of an item hurts you even ... specific

[groks]

Will you continue about the "analogues", or will you die down already?

And they don’t have larger ones. The functions are the same.

Poking here is not accepted, I remind.

It quickly came. Quickly.

Than to restore - it is easier to build a new one.

What to restore? Corps rusted? Aircraft out of Soviet stocks collected - and nothing.

[Evgeniy667b]

Well, if we get a seat on Sevmash and roll up our sleeves, maybe something will be born! But now there is an acute shortage of personnel, so any rusted vessel is of value. Another thing someone wants a freebie from the delivery of metal, this is another matter. Unfortunately, not a single ship was left in which my works were. Ohio walks for 40 years, but the bekahs and 20 have not served !!! It's a shame somehow.

[sd68]

How can you double the power of what is not?
Threat The authors themselves come up with headlines or keep creative-copywriters?

[Guru]

underwater speed - 21 knots, surface - 10 knots,
But isn't it the other way around ???

[Nemesis]

That's when endless trials end and the boats are handed over to the fleet as combat units, and not as an experienced ship and two unfinished ones, then write, but for now there is nothing to write about ...

[the same doctor]

I do not quite understand the meaning of the whole undertaking. Correspondents can not explain the device of the VNU and the fuel cell in more detail?
.
What is especially incomprehensible: 1 kg of oxygen are required per 16 kg of hydrogen. They make a forest around getting hydrogen, and where are they going to get oxygen from? Or do I not understand something about solid fuel elements?
.
Why can’t you just make one of the boat compartments a giant cylinder of oxygen and fill the other with metal hydride (given the small volumes of hydrogen needed, it is better not to bother with the converter at all - the metal hydride tank will be more efficient). Given the possibility of storing both under pressure of a hundred or two atmospheres, a compartment of 300 cubic meters will provide about 20 tons of fuel for hydrogen, which corresponds to a hundred tons of a conventional diesel engine, and taking into account the efficiency of fuel cells and two to three hundred. Enough for a submarine in the Baltic and the Black Sea.
.
In principle, it seems to me that I see a way to get oxygen in the sea. Interestingly, pseudo-scientists also solved this problem?